====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 1 - 7, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:22:43 -0600 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-23-2000 2/23: Gili: >Nathan - "witch" does exist in biblical Hebrew: "machshefa". Oops. I missed the absence of the dot in the middle of the "pe" and thus transliterated it as a "p" rather than an "f". Oh, well, I've said my Hebrew isn't all that great... Gehan: >Well, my own MOPPET is that Dot, Trot, Betsy, Peter, Bill the Weathercock, >Benny, Speedy, Jenny Jump, Lucky Bucky e.t.c live in a parrerel earth, which >is linked to yet ANOTHER fairy dimension where all the magical countries are >located...including Oz. I believe that the parrerel earth-people can get to >Oz or the other countries by means of 'magic portals/invisible dimension >gates' or tornados, whirlpools, storms, earth-quakes e.t.c... Certainly a possibility, but aside from a few minor items like the existence of a Butterfield somewhere in or close to Kansas, why postulate this secondary world when the characters could just as easily go by the same magical means from our world to the one including Oz? Occam's Razor and all that. >Ofcourse, Chris Dulabone believes >that Ozma is only 6-8, and that she alters her age whenever she's handling >difficult situations, but I don't like THAT iedia... Neither do I. Nor is there any vestige of evidence in the FF that it's the case. Your idea that an Ozite has to specifically wish not to age, and that the Wizard didn't know this and therefore aged, is the one Robert Pattrick proposed in one of his "Unexplored Territories in Oz" essays. But I find that fairly hard to accept. When a great many Ozites seem never to have heard of the Emerald City or any central government, why should they know about wishing not to age? It's possible, but seems unlikely. >And then there's another question. If all the countries SURROUNDING Oz are >magical, how come OZ wasn't magical, and Lurline had to ENCHANT it in order >for it to BE magical? But Oz probably was magical - in fact, as John Bell said, Baum seems to have believed that all countries were magical until they became civilized. Nathan: >Well, that's just a beginning. I'm sure I'll think of some more later. I'm >still not entirely sure what I'm going to do with these ages, but maybe >they'll help determine a few things about aging and death in Oz. I'm doing a paper on the subject for the Centennial Convention, and you found a couple here that I'd missed in my earlier go-through of the books. Grazie. John K.: >Others have gone for the lower age without that reason -- see the >Annotated Wizard of Oz. Yes, but Hearn was making the assumption that each Oz book in which Dorothy appeared occupied one year of her life. I know of no reason to believe that, and considerable reason not to. >Lower-case letters are a medieval development, and the regular >use of mixed case came later still. In Greek? I could have sworn that I've seen copies of 1st-century Greek manuscripts written using mixed-case letters, though I'll admit that I don't have an example ready at hand. I'll keep an eye on BAR over the next few months to see if I spot one... >Belief in witches is found in all cultures, at all times. If by "witch" you mean "female worker of magic," then I'm sure you're largely correct (though any use of "all" is somewhat suspect to me). And that seems to have been how Baum defined the term. On the other hand, the medieval Christian definition included Satan-worship as part of it, and that's not by any means as universal as all that. (Since Satan himself isn't that universal.) Yehuda's Pop: > This never stopped Captain Ahab, either :-) Yeah, and you see where it got him! :-) Tyler: >Most people indeed seem to place it in the South Pacific, since Oz is >clearly surrounded >by a sizeable warm ocean, and there's more room there than the South >Atlantic for it to >hide, or even the Indian Ocean. Actually, there's probably more warm water far away from normal shipping lines in the Indian Ocean; the South Pacific is full of little islands that were traveled on a regular basis by the Polynesians since 1500 or so, until you get far enough south that it isn't really all that warm any more. (And it's way out of the way of any sea route between California and Australia.) Much of the Indian Ocean, on the other hand, is relatively untraveled and still quite warm. But I don't think Oz is anywhere on this planet. >David Hulan: I don't remember Digby O'Dell, but it's Cy at the Door >(Peter in the house) in "Jack Pumpkinhead." Yes, I remember that. By "magic" vs. "natural" (vis-a-vis dragons) I meant that they couldn't possibly have evolved naturally on our earth and do what they do. I do recognize that the Woozy probably has a different origin from dragons. Although I question the reasoning in PG; "Beware the Woozy" no more implies that there's only one Woozy in the universe than "Beware the dog" implies there's only one dog. It only implies that there's only one that's an immediate potential danger. 2/28: Joyce: Digby O'Dell was always called "Digger" in the show ("Fibber McGee and Molly," I think, though I wouldn't swear it wasn't "The Great Gildersleeve"), but he always introduced himself as, "It is I - Digby O'Dell, The Friendly Undertaker." In sepulchural tones befitting his profession. I can easily see how your father would have acquired the sobriquet, though (by name only; I never met him, so I have no reason to have an opinion on its appropriateness otherwise). John K.: >The "1-4 >Kings" titles derive from the Greek, which RCC tradition since Jerome >has regarded only as a supplementary text to the Hebrew, though equally >inspired -- Protestants and Jews, of course, do not use it at all.) Well, not as inspired scripture, but as interesting data on what was going on in the last couple of centuries BCE in the religious communities of Judea and Alexandria. Much in the way many Christians regard the patristic writings from the 2d and 3d centuries CE. Nathan: Tip seems to be about 12 or even 13 in _Land_ based on the way he acts; Neill actually seems to draw him younger than Baum describes him. One cue to me is that he seems to be somewhat attracted to Jinjur; even back when I was a boy (which, however it may seem, was a good half century later...) a 10-year-old boy would avoid a teen-age girl like the plague, rather than offering to carry her lunch basket. >The Size of Oz: >Based on most estimates as to the size of Oz, does it really make sense to >call the land mass on which it is located a "continent"? Based on my estimates of the size of Oz and the probably size of the countries surrounding it, the land mass on which Oz is located seems to be about the size of Ireland, give or take 10,000 square miles or so. Probably bigger than Sri Lanka (hi, Gehan...) but smaller than Iceland. Not, though, what one would really call a "continent," which seems to have an Australia/Antarctica land mass at its lower end. Jeremy: Hi, welcome back! David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Miscellaneous McFate" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-28-2000 Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:58:53 GMT Tyler: >The idea that Lurline's spell did not take full effect until Ozma ascended >the throne did not originate with me. I believe Michael Patrick Hearn or >perhaps Robert Pattrick came up with it first. I can recall one theory (I'm not sure who came up with it, but it might have been Hearn or Pattrick) that was sort of a variation on that. In that theory, the enchantment only had its full effect when a rightful ruler (not necessarily Ozma; Pastoria and his father would also have counted, as would the "long line of fairy queens," I suppose) was on the throne. This meets some problems, however; for instance, Nick Chopper was presumably hacked to pieces without dying during the Wizard's reign, since it was after his father's visit to the Emerald City (unless it was actually Pastoria's castle that the elder Chopper had visited, and Nick was just calling it "the Emerald City" because it was in the same location, but that would have meant that Nick had been rusted for a LONG time). >Re Mombi and melting: >Dave Hardenbrook says, <tell me that it takes a long time *and* really vast evil to reached >that sufficiently "shrivelled" state. Mombi probably didn't hack it >on either count. So they believe that she couldn't be "washed out" >and that she's still out there somewhere.>> > >So she was just pretending to melt? Yikes . . . Maybe she was a VERY good actress. Dave: >BCF: >Ruth wrote: > >Dave Hardenbrook: Seems like about time to set a time to discuss > >next book ("Hungry Tiger")? > >You're probably right... I won't set a date yet, but everyone should >start getting a hold of the book... Maybe I'll read it during my spring break, which comes up next week. Any time is good to start discussion, though. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Received: from [134.84.45.28] by amethyst.tc.umn.edu for ozdigest@mindspring.com; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:36:54 -0600 Date: Tue, 29 Feb 00 10:34:40 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: potter in oz Dave Hardenbrook: Speaking as you were of Harry Potter -- the Feb. 28 NY "Times" has a front-page article by Doreen Carvajal ("Booksellers grab a young wizard's cloaktails") on how the HP books have been affecting sales of children's fantasy literature generally. The article is tied specifically to a bookstore chain in Cincinnati (Joseph-Beth Booksellers) which has a "Harry Potter Withdrawal Club" to recommend books that Potter readers who want other stuff to read until the next HP book will enjoy, but includes references to similar bookstore-based groups in other parts of the country, plus comments on increased sales/use from publishers and librarians. Seems sales of children's fantasy generally, and especially serieses set in magic kingdoms (especially British, says the article, but others as well) have gone up some 10-20%. (Proving how much of the increase is specifically Potter's influence would be difficult, but it seems fairly obvious that it must be an important factor.) The "Withdrawal Club" people have been recommending specifically to its members "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" and Lloyd Alexander's "The Book of Three." Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: Tigerbooks@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:24:15 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-28-2000 Dear Ozzies, The discussion about any reproduction of "Oz and the Three Witches" without Hugh Pendexter's permission is extremely alarming! I can hardly believe anyone is seriously discussing stealing Hugh Pendexter's intellectual property! Copyright infringement is a crime. To post Pendexter's work to the net is hardly different than breaking into his house while he's away, stealing his furniture and other belongings, and distributing that to others. To subsequently remove the post when Pendexter objects is no different than ceasing to steal Pendexter's belongings when he objects. But unlike furniture and other physical belongings, no one can return Pendexer's intellectual property to him, and he can never recover the worth of that property in full. Can we please cease this public encouragement of crime? Eric Shanower ====================================================================== From: "Arlem" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-28-2000 Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:15:54 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" Does anyone have any idea if the Hidden Prince of Oz is available yet? the IWOC site is dreadful slow with updates........ ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 00:17:32 -0600 Subject: Oz & witches From: "David Godwin" I wrote: > >However, I'm sure there are Greek references to witches > >that antedate Exodus by centuries. To which David Hulan replied: >Well, possibly. But although the version of Exodus we have was probably put >into its final form around 500 BCE, the material in it is for the most part >considerably earlier in date; the injunction in question probably dates to >at least the 9th century BCE, which is earlier than almost anything Greek >that's survived. Well, Herodotus dated Homer (who refers to witches, or at least a sorceress or two) to the 9th century BC (if you believe Herodotus) and a more modern source (Georg Luck) suggests that some of his material was in the form of oral traditions from the Bronze Age. As for Exodus, there is not only considerable controversy about the dating of the text, but there is no way to know when the injunction against witches was inserted. At one extreme, we can say that Exodus and the entire Pentateuch were written by Moses in the Wilderness, and that these events took place in the 16th century BC (the earliest date that anyone has suggested for the Exodus). Or we can say that the Pentateuch was actually composed and written down when it was "discovered" in the Temple in (probably) the 7th century BC. Or we can agree with the scholars who say it was first written down shortly after the return from exile in the 6th century BC. Or we might point out that the oldest actual written text that we physically possess is the Septuagint (in Greek, based on memorized Hebrew) from the 3rd century BC. Or we can fly to the opposite extreme and say that the whole thing, including the history of it, was the product of Hollywood screenwriters in the 1950s! That would fit in well with the modern skeptical attitude that tends to minimize the antiquity of everything from the Pyramids to the Vedas. As for Homer, we can be pretty sure that the texts existed in the 6th century BC, and those who mentioned them at the time had no idea how old they were. So I would tend at this point to declare the contest a draw between the Jews and the Greeks as to the most ancient mention of a witch. I suspect that the Egyptians and/or Sumerians have them both beat, though I can't cite any sources, and some say that belief in witches goes back to the Paleolithic. If you regard shamans as witches, as I'm sure certain people do (though more so in the past than now), then the Lascaux cave paintings would constitute the earliest "mention" of a witch. This is, of course, discounting the fact that the Hebrew word in Exodus translated "witch" might be more accurately rendered as "poisoner" - or possibly "pharmacist." But witches prior to modern times had the reputation of being specialists in potions and herbal lore, particularly poisons, so the translation is not that far off base. On these grounds, incidentally, the priest in Romeo and Juliet might qualify as a witch. They should have thrown water on him. Incidentally, and perhaps somewhat off-topic, as this whole discussion is getting to be, I have found it extraordinarily difficult to find any reliable information about the history of witchcraft. Almost everything on the subject has been written by a true believer, either pro (modern Wiccans and neo-Pagans) or con (such as Montague Summers), and even the article in the 1968 edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica that I have was written by none other than Margaret Murray, whose pronouncements on the subject have been thoroughly discredited. Otherwise, one is left with works by people with some special axe to grind about cult survivals or the like. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:56:11 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things John Bell: > 1) How did L. Frank Baum and his successors on our Earth learn >about Oz if Dorothy lived on a different Earth and in a different America? I think we should ask the AUTHORS that. All I'm saying is that I believe Oz is located in a fairy 'Contient of Imagination' called Nonestica which is linked to a parallel earth where Dit, Trot, Betsy, Peter, Benny, Shaggy Man e.t.c used to live. I don't know anything about the 'authors' part. I believe that it has something to do with their 'imagination' which happens to be the name of the contient in which Oz lies. Coincidence. > 2) How would you explain to a child reading an Oz book that only >children in another dimension have a chance of going to Oz? Children ARE entitled to have their own theories, and if the 'other dimension' is too complicated, then they are free to believe that people on OUR earth DO have the chance fo going to Oz. > A third, less central philosophical challenge is that if there are >two Earths with two Americas, why aren't there multiple Earths with >multiple Ozzes, each different in large or small ways? And if so, where >does one draw the line: a different Oz for each author, for each book, for >each chapter? Does this mean multiple possible endings for each story, and >if so why is one ending the "right" or "Ozzy" one? I never thought of it that way. I totally reject Einhorn's version of different Oz lands in different galaxies, as I firmly believe that there is only ONE Oz, the Oz in the books. I don't believe that Oz differs from chapter to chapter... Robin : > The pink pearl has a single charm/purpose. It protects. Period. >The Magic Belt is a generalized "workhorse" of a magical implement. >Perhaps its lack of focus, its broad range, limits its potency a bit for >each of its functions. Exactly! Nathan: >Why couldn't these dimensional "gates" exist on our Earth, as well as on a >parallel one? They'd just be rare enough that not very many people would >notice them. They COULD exist on our earth as well, but I don't think anyone has 'DISCOVERED' any as yet... >Neither do I, and I see NO textual basis for it in the FF. I don't think >Ozma ever acts that young, even in _Land_. (True, we don't see much of Ozma >in that book, but I would imagine that Tip would have been about the same >age, and he acts older than eight.) Tip certainly DOES seem to be around 12 or 13 atleast, to have run away in the middle of the night with only a pumpkinhead for company, and having been brave enough to support the Scarecrow and the Tinwoodman against a wicked witch and a rebel army, right along. Plus, Baum identifies him as a 'youth' and he seems to be really interested in Jinjur and her fellow-girls' looks(and they were ALL much older than him) which would mean that he was DEFINETELY in his teens, or atleast over ten. >I think that's most likely. Lurline didn't create all of the magic in Oz; >she just added even more powerful magic to the land's composition. Precisely! >Isn't Dorothy mentioned as having blonde hair in _Hidden Valley_? Of >course, that probably would have been based on the illustrations. Betsy is said to have 'red' hair in 'FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN OF OZ' and I think Dorothy was said to have BLONDE hair, in the same book. BTW, I pictured how I THOUGHT Trot should look like, before I saw any illustrations, and once I DID, I realised that she is EXACTLY the way I pictured her. Isn't that strange? Jeremy : >I persist in my belief that Glinda knew exactly what she was doing in >not eliminating Mombi et al right away. She was waiting for Dorothy >to come, so that Dorothy would have the opportunity. > >And I suppose so that she would have less work to do . . . no offense >Glinda fans. I believe that Glinda wants to avoid taking immediate action and avoids jumping to conclusions. She always waits for the right moment, which is very wise, unless ABSOLUTELY necessary (ex:JACK PUMPKINHEAD OF OZ) >I still say it's not fair for her to transform people we know and >respect into royalty all the time! So do I! So do I! BTW, I agree that we shoukld start on HUNGRY TIGER, too. ~Gehan~ *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Western People Funny, Western People Funny, Western People Funny, Of that there is no doubt They feel so sentimental, about the Oriental, they always try to turn us Upside down and inside out They think they civilize us Whenever they advise us To learn to make the same mistakes That they are making too! -- 'Western People Funny' (The King and I) *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= ====================================================================== From: "Jim Vander Noot" Subject: FW: software Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 05:57:23 -0500 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF8343.033F97D0" Importance: Normal ====================================================================== From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 15:31:33 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-03-2000 Okay, I'm still catching up here. Haven't gotten to the latest Digests, but here are some responses to earlier ones. Apologies if anytthing I say is echoed by later postings. DIGEST OF 2/3/00-- Re story arcs vs. series: Either can be very effective. There's more leeway to branch out, of course, in a series of relatively unconnected events in very connected settings with the same or similar people (a series), but alot can be done to present a larger portion of events in a story arc. Implication that the Cowardly Lion hunts: I can't see that being in his character, despite the suggestions in WIZARD. If he came upon an animal already dead, maybe (thought that sounds horrible). Digest of 2/8/00: March Laumer's books: Can they be put on the internet yet (to facilitate wide distribution) or do we have to wait 50 years (or 75!)? I know we've discussed the copyright laws before, but can't remember the details. Jinxland: Perhaps it moves around (like the wishing wells and somewhere else I vaguely remember). Then it could be both inside AND outside Oz . . . No? Well, it was just an idea . . . David G.: That is a STRANGE play you described! Ozzily yours, Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/kivel99/ ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== From: Dougwmson@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 18:46:12 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-28-2000 To Dave, From: Doug At least the "witch of Endor" has a name regardless of her abilities, magic or otherwise. The other replies and references, which I enjoyed, only referred to generic witches, and none with proper names. They need to go back to the history books and find out which witch, (no pun intended), magic or otherwise, first had a name. Another subject: (probably controversial) In the book by LFB, (not an OZ book but close), one of the principles was Chick the Cherub. Was he a boy or a girl? I believe they had contest at the time of publishing the book, to see what the readers thought. I do not believe it was resolved. Since I am currently reading the book again, for the umteenth time, and since "Stan" referred to him/her, in the current Baum Bugle Kin Interview, It brought this comment to mind. My own opinion is that Chick is thought of as a "boy" by male readers and as a "girl" by female readers. This demonstrates the great ability of LFB to create illusions. I do not think LFB suggested any connotation of homosexuality. I would hope this will bring some responses and keep the Ozzy Digest pot boiling. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 20:05:55 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Miss Gulch Returns I didn't see it, but here is the page for a local professional production. I was busy writing my own play and chose to skip it. My play, titled _What Killed Bartok_, has been submitted to The Phoenix Theatre's Festival of Emerging American Theatre Awards. The only Oz reference in it, though, is when a character makes reference to someone looking like Aunt Em in _The Wiz_. Scott ================================================= Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Militaries are inherently the most corrupt organizations in the world, simply because their mission is to kill people and break things." ====================================================================== From: Sherry446@webtv.net (Sherry Martin) (Non-member) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:08:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: i need info I have 4 dolls that are 50th anniversary dolls. I would like to know what there worth. The dolls are all still in there boxes. The boxes also say 1988 on them if you could email me back with anything i would greatful to you. ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 18:10:30 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-28-2000 John Kennedy:<< Ozmama@aol.com wrote: > The _OED_ gives 1659 as the earliest appearance of the word "witch," > but it's not used then as "magic worker." Odd. Huh? The OED tracks the word back to the 9th century. And _belief_ in witches is as old and as widespread as humanity -- far older than the English language.>> My _OED_ (_Oxford Universal English Dictionary_, c.1937. Only ten volumes long, so it is, admittedly, abridged) gives the first such usage as 1659. "Bewitch" shows up in 1590. "Witchery" in 1546. Score one for John, who took the time to check out whether my date is correct or not. Nathan, about the differences between Oz and the rest of Nonestica: <> I've always loved the Ixian Box Wood in _Silver Princess_. This is an interesting discussion. As a kid, I just swallowed it whole, but now y'all have got me wondering about those differences.... FWIW, I agree with the concept that Oz was partially a fairyland before Lurline's enchantment. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 21:22:50 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: G. Howe Black (fwd) The actor who played "Snowball" or "Rastus" in various films including _Wizard of Oz_ known as G. Howe Black has recently been updated in the IMDb to his real name: Spencer Bell (25 September 1887, Lexington KY-18 August 1935). http://akas.imdb.com/Name?Bell,+Spencer ====================================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Militaries are inherently the most corrupt organizations in the world, simply because their mission is to kill people and break things." ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 01:17:30 EST Subject: Oz John Bell and the Multi-Oz theory: March Laumer postulates that there at least two Ozzes. The "official" one and a Russian one based on Volkov's books. Laumer did not pre-suppose the existence of an Oz based mainly on MGM, although there could be one. I remember Dave Hardenbrook thinking up a storyline wherein Dorothy, Ozma, Jellia, etc. get transported to an MGM-based Oz, where everybody bursts into songs, all the Munchkins are short, and nobody knows who Ozma is. You say continent, I say contentment: Assuming that Oz is 120 by 90 miles in size, and that the maps in the Del Rey RPT books are accurate to scale (assuming these requires that the maps are accurate to within 2%), then the "continent" of Nonestica is 67,500 square miles. That's about the size of the state of Washington. Hardly a continent by our standards, but it may very well be the largest land mass (or at least in the top three) in its world. Ruth: It seems to me that disseminating photocopies of _Oz and the Three Witches_ would be much more illegal than posting a copy on the Web, although I could be wrong. I believe that a detailed analysis would pass muster, as long as I did not quote anything nor paraphrase it too continuously. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "Bob Collinge" Subject: Virus Cleaner Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:51:00 -0500 Dear Friends, I recently received a virus via email. This virus is called "Pretty Park exe". It automatically attaches itself and sends to everyone on your address book. I am sorry for this inconvenience. If you are now infected with this virus, please go to http://softseek.zdnet.com/Utilities/Virus_Protection/D_27745_index.html and download Pretty Park Cleaner. It will clean your pc of this virus. Again, I am sorry for this inconvenience, but I was unaware of the virus until yesterday. Bob ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:12:18 -0700 Archives: All Ozzy Digests are now available on my website up through February, 2000. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 07 Mar 00 16:58:44 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things HELLO!: Hi everyone! I'm sorry it's been a while since the last Digest... My hard drive got trashed and I had to reinstall my entire system! I also had to salvage the mailing list for the Digest, so if someone who unsubscribed is receiving this Digest again, please let me know. A MOST INGENIOUS PARROT-OX; OR, TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO OZ FAIRY QUEEN HAS GONE BEFORE!: (ONLY VERY MINOR SPOILERS FOR _PARADOX IN OZ_ AHEAD...) I finished _Paradox in Oz_. It is the most engrossing Oz book I've read for a long time, filled with many Sci-Fi elements including time travel. (For the _Red Dwarf_ fans on this list, this book includes elements reminiscent of "Future Echoes", "Backwards", "Dimension Jump", "Demons and Angels", "Tikka to Ride", and "Only the Good...") Ozma really shines in this story and proves that her days of passively leaving others to have all the adventures are over! _Paradox_ also contains explanations for a number of Ozian mysteries, including the origin of the spell that stopped the Oz people's aging. Some people on the Digest thought I would dislike this book because it asserts Ozma's "little girlness" repeatedly. But "paradoxically", I consider _Paradox_ a vindication of my view that there are an infinite number of different Oz universes, only a few of which are entirely adherent to what certain Powers That Be claim to be "the only *real* Oz". In fact in one scene Ozma sees portals into a myriad of other Ozes with other Ozmas, some of whom appear to have developed bosoms! So I now see *my* Oz as merely one of those other Ozzes, only *slightly* different from the one in _Paradox_ and so many others. I recommend this book to everyone! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 8 - 14, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 21:33:48 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-2000 << I remember Dave Hardenbrook thinking up a storyline wherein Dorothy, Ozma, Jellia, etc. get transported to an MGM-based Oz, where everybody bursts into songs, all the Munchkins are short, and nobody knows who Ozma is.>> Dave, did you ever write the story? Great premise. Please write it if you haven't already done so. If it is/does get written, submit it to _Oziana_, please. --Robin ====================================================================== From: Aandihorn@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 23:51:37 EST Subject: Film specs. (Non-Member) Perhaps you can help me settle a disagreement I am having with a friend about "OZ". My friend insists that this film was 'hand colored' frame by frame. Rediculous! I say. 'hand colored' true?/false? I greatly appreciate any insight you could offer. Peace Andi ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:03:47 -0600 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-2000 To paraphrase Judy Garland's Dorothy, you all must have stopped wondering what happened to me by now. I've been swamped with writing my honors thesis/novel, among other things, but the first draft is now done, so I thought I'd stick my head in and say hello. I've been reading the Digests, anyway, and I don't recall any mention of _Girl, Interrupted_, Winona Ryder's latest flick. I was quite surprised to see a scene displaying a number of Oz books, including _Patchwork Girl_, _Captain Salt_, _Dorothy and the Wizard_ (whose dust jacket was pinned to a wall--horrors), and _Pirates_, I think. Anyway, I was considerably impressed, and the Oz-obsessed character even managed to get in the comment that the shoes are really silver. Atticus * * * "She reads at such a pace," she complained, "and when I asked her *where* she had learnt to read so quickly she replied, 'On the screens at Cinemas.'" My website: http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:38:19 -0600 Subject: Oz From: "David Godwin" Jeremy Steadman wrote: >That is a STRANGE play you described! Yes, and stranger still when I actually saw it. The part of the schoolteacher was played by a balding schoolteacher - who also played the "Witch of Thataway" (i.e, the WWW). I was a bit disappointed by the fact that the Tin Woodman was portrayed as a real grouch. The lion (played by an older girl) was the best actor of the four travelers. The mice did not rescue anyone from the poppy field; their role was to hold up mirrors to the Witch so that seeing her own evilness would melt her. The reflective nature of the TW's tin acted in a similar fashion. Of course the play suffered from the same ills that afflict almost all school productions - the actors spoke too quickly and did not project, so that you sometimes had to be very attentive to catch all the lines. The music, however, was quite good. Oz Kids: I have now seen videos of several of these episodes, and confess that I am confused. Even though the cartoons incorporate many ideas from the Baum books - including _The Sea Fairies_ - no adults are ever shown living in the EC except the Big Four and the Wizard (and Rick from New York City). So this would appear to be an Ozma-less Oz, although other characters such as the Woozy and the Patchwork Girl do show up from time to time. The puzzler is this: in "The Nome Prince and the Magic Belt," in which the Scarecrow is clearly depicted as being king, one character mentions how "Princess Ozma" originally got the Magic Belt from the Nome King. Huh? Who's she? She never makes an appearance, on screen or off, in the episodes I've seen. Andrea, who is Glinda's daughter, looks a lot like the child-Ozma, complete with flowers in her hair, but that's obviously not Ozma. Well, it's confusing, but still very enjoyable. - David G. ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:21:31 -0700 charset="iso-8859-1" Copyrights: Eric Shanower's discussion is the best one I've seen yet. Yes, it would be wrong to simply post _Oz and the Three Witches_ on the Net. We were only considering the idea because we cannot seem to locate Pendexter or his estate, and the possibility exists that there is no owner of the material anymore. Also, since the book has been out of print for so long, there is no longer any benefit to be derived from it. Nevertheless, I'll forego posting it for the time being. Jeremy: March Laumer's books are copyrighted, and he does have an estate. Perhaps Chris D. or someone on this digest knows who is in charge of it and may be willing to negotiate. Since I know for a fact that the late Mr. Laumer has an active estate, I absolutely will not post any of his works on my website without explicit permission from his estate. Doug: As fare as I know, the Chick the Cherub contest was never resolved. IMHO, it seems reasonable to believe that most readers would assign Chick the same gender as their own, even if subconsciously. However, Chick is a competent and capable child. Most such characters in the Baum books are girls, so I have always believed Chick to be a girl. True, Baum does have some competent boy characters in his books (Ervic and Zeb come to mind), but not many. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:29:01 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: PARADOX and paradigms charset=ISO-8859-1 Tyler Jones wrote: <> I'll look forward to the results. To keep them "in the nature of scholarly pursuits," focus the analysis on the part of Hugh Pendexter III's thesis/fiction that concerns our discussions: Oz's relationship to the witches and Ozma's acceptance of him. Quoting short but important bits within the context of that discussion is fair use because OZ AND THE THREE WITCHES has been published. In the meantime, has anyone asked Chris Dulabone if he's still in touch with Pendexter? As Buckethead, he published a coupla books by the man. Pendexter's name also shows up at this site, so its owner might have a contact or be able to trace Pendexter through Piers Anthony fans: http://www.piers-anthony.com/booksabout.html Scott Hutchins wrote: <> I'm glad to know this has happened. Thanks for the news. Nathan DeHoff wrote of Mombi: << >So she was just pretending to melt? Yikes . . . Maybe she was a VERY good actress.>> "Oh! I'm melting! I'm melting! You horrible men, how can you watch this?" "'Struth, my straw-filled friend, 'tis hardly a noble deed." "But she is a witch, you know." "Oh, yes I am! And now I'm melting! To think that someone as, um, floppy as you could destroy all my beautiful wickedness!" "Hmmm. She's not melting much." "But I am! I can feel myself draining away!" "Methinks she's crouching." "No, no, you foolish knight, my knees have dissolved! Haven't you seen anyone dissolve into molasses before?" "By my sword, no." "It's a sad sight. Turn your heads away, for your own sakes!" "Actually, I'm rather curious to see this. Dorothy told me about melting that other witch, but she couldn't really describe--" "Oh, for wickedness' sake! As my last act of spite, I shall light a match!" "What?! Come, Hokus, let's watch at a distance." "But, noble sir, recall you not that the witch be soaking wet?" "But you know what I always say: better to be safe than on fire." "Curses, my final wicked wish foiled! I can't even stop myself from seeping behind this thick bush. Soon I shall breathe my last! It shall take only five minutes for me to pass through the highly volatile, inflammable stage into total nothingness. Ah, me! Maybe ten minutes, to be safe. What a world, what a world!" Doug wrote: <> Gender identity (understanding which sex one is) is distinct from sexual identity (understanding what sex one is attracted to). "I love being a girl" doesn't imply or rule out "I love girls." So in that respect, I agree that Baum's invention of a character of indeterminate gender implies nothing about sexuality. Baum seems to attribute the lack of gender to Chick's being an incubator baby. In other words, with influence from neither father nor mother, a child comes out neither male nor female. Baum's portrayal thus hints that gender is not biological, but entirely social in creation. Baum added Chick to JOHN DOUGH after his first draft in order to give young readers a child to identify with. If boys and girls generally believe the Cherub is the same gender as they are, then there is some identification going on. When I read the book as a child, however, I didn't decide one way or the other. The Dover edition's introduction made clear that there had never been an answer, or rather that the answer was "neither." But then I never found a whole lot to identify with in Chick. The obstacle wasn't the gender ambiguity alone but the child's entire background--incubator, no parents, Isle of Phreex. I had few traits in common with Chick to grab onto. Gehan Cooray wrote of dimensional "gates": <> Anyone except, according to some folks' view of the Oz books, O. Z. Diggs, Dorothy Gale, Button-Bright, Trot Griffith, Bill Weedles,... Gehan wrote: << >How did L. Frank Baum and his successors on our Earth learn >about Oz if Dorothy lived on a different Earth and in a different America? I think we should ask the AUTHORS that.>> The authors left us their remarks in the Oz books themselves, especially in their introductions. They seem to present Oz either as a country within the same reality as themselves and their readers (us), or as a fiction driven by the demands and suggestions of those young readers. I don't see any suggestions of parallel Earths in there. Any science-fiction scholars want to comment on when the notion of parallel dimensions/universes/Earths became popular in that genre? Folks write of "wormholes" and the like as if they've been shown to exist, but really they've just become familiar to us from various fictional uses. ************ SPOILERS ************ Dave Hardenbrook wrote about many universes of Oz: <<_Paradox in Oz_ implies that this is the case. The picture of "our" (not necessarily *mine*) Ozma falling through a Galaxy of different Ozmas suggests a different universe for every book, illustrator, *and* movie!>> I was finishing PARADOX IN OZ as I wrote to Gehan about the potential multiplicity of Oz universes. The possibility of multiple paradigms seems to contradict the notion of "Ozziness" as something one can judge. To me, PARADOX is simultaneously very Ozzy and rather un-Ozzy. One of the pleasures of the book is seeing Edward Einhorn and Eric Shanower share such a deep knowledge of our various pictures of Oz (including pictures we almost instinctively find un-Ozzy, such as Glinda pushing a baby carriage). They manage to do that without bopping us over the head with their cleverness about Oz, though the cleverness about time travel and paradox in general does get obvious. But here's a potential problem with that approach: unlike Lewis Carroll's tales, Oz stories rarely rely on paradox. Disagreements and contradictions appear between separate books, but within each we're supposed to accept that there's a solid, non-contradictory reality to Oz. By calling attention to contradictions without resolving them, PARADOX might actually undercut the "fifth criterion" on which Oz has been floating for a century. To me that emphasis also made for some slow going in the early chapters as the cheerful Parrot-Ox and the exasperating Dr. Majestico (who ends up doing little in the plot) must be introduced. PARADOX follows another path perpendicular to most Oz novels. Almost all those stories are journeys in space, usually from a corner of the continent to the center or to home, through many lands and communities. PARADOX is primarily a journey in time. There are only two new communities for Ozma to visit: a dark version of the Emerald City and an Escher- and Zeno-inspired world called Absurd City. The latter seems to exist only for its optical illusions and logical conundra, without engaging characters underneath. That problem sticks out because Ozma's visit to Absurd City follows her arrival in (and creation of) a dark version of the Emerald City, which will grab Oz fans much more. A dystopic Oz has become almost familiar in the last fifteen years with the DARK OZ comics, WICKED, and WAS. In PARADOX we once more see an Oz where everything we thought was good (except Glinda) is now bad, and everything bad is good. By now, the creators' imaginative details are what make such a reversal work, and Einhorn and Shanower get the details right, from Wantowin Battles's spiky beard to Nick Chopper's heartlessness (and tousled hair). Once that view of Oz is out of our sight, however, some of the energy goes out of the plot. Even though Einhorn tells us how restoring the beauty of Oz depends on what Ozma can find in Absurd City, the later adventure isn't as gripping. His Act I has a bigger climax than his Act II. All in all, PARADOX is well done, and I can foresee myself rereading it within the year to make sure I've followed all the twists and absorbed all the details. The illustrations are especially nice (including Dr. Majestico's first appearance on a series of verso pages). Dave's correct that Ozma is not only active, but quite true to the character we know from earlier books--which is crucial because she steers this plot and so few other favorites appear. A final comment, not just about PARADOX: Many books about time travel involve the ability to change the present by changing the past. And that depends on an assumption we've never been able to prove: that life could have been different. Philosophically most of us believe that. We make choices, firmly believing that we have an opportunity and a responsibility to choose well. But of course at every instant in our lives we've made only ONE choice. If in fact our lives are entirely determined, then being able to go back and forward in time is simply like moving a ring along a string: one might go back over the same stretch, but one can't leave the string. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:40:22 -0500 (EST) From: cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-24-2000 > THANX FOR THE DIGEST. > > I HAVE READ IT ONCE BUT WILL HAVE TO RE-READ TO ABSORB IT. > > ONE COMMENT, I CANNOT STATE WHICH OZ BOOK IT CAME FROM, HOWEVER, I ALWAYS > REMEMBERED THAT THE GOOD WITCH OF THE NORTH'S NAME IS "BELINDA" WHICH IS > SIMILAR TO THE GWS GLINDA. This is from a stage adaptation from the late 1920s. There is one by Elizabeth Fuller Goodspeed Chapman and another by Anne Coulter Martens. I don't remember which. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:15:23 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-2000 Lisa: The Silver Shoes show up in _Tip of Oz_, which I have yet to get published. Captain Carrot also finds them in the desert in _The Oz-Wonderland War_, but does nothing about it, and Wayne Keldry is disintegrated trying to retrive them driving a jeep through the desert in _Giraffic Park_, which I sent to The Oz Story Circle. The better prints of the MGM film reveal that Toto is brown. However, Lisa, I don't recall ever seeing footage of the Thorpe MGM film, just production stills. Are those stills that to which you are referring? Scott ==================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Who's John Adams?" --Vice President Albert Gore, Jr., at Monticello, after failing to recognize busts of other founding fathers. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:31:53 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-2000 David G: Ike Morgan showed the Wogglebug with six limbs. Lisa: Warner owns the MGM film. ========================= Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Who's John Adams?" --Vice President Albert Gore, Jr., at Monticello, after failing to recognize busts of other founding fathers. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:45:07 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-20-2000 Nathan: The NRSV translation says "female sorceror," which is likely closer to the Hebrew. Likely witches appear even earlier in Asia, Africa, and the Americas. There are witches in Native American folklore, for example, and China had one of the earliest civilizations, which probably had stories of witches as well. ================================= Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Who's John Adams?" --Vice President Albert Gore, Jr., at Monticello, after failing to recognize busts of other founding fathers. ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:12:59 -0700 charset="iso-8859-1" Hugh Pendexter: Chris Dulabone gave me a few leads, although he does not know where Pendexter lives. According to Chris, Hugh turned over his copyrights on all of his material to two grandchildren, Ellen Ackerman and Peter Ackerman. Uswestdex.com lists 17 Ellen Ackermans and 25 Peter Ackermans. No listing for Hugh Pendexter is in there nor for Pen Press (his publisher). An internet search on Pen Press also turned up nothing. It looks like I have some letter writing to do... Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 07:14:21 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things >Certainly a possibility, but aside from a few minor items like the >existence of a Butterfield somewhere in or close to Kansas, why postulate >this secondary world when the characters could just as easily go by the >same magical means from our world to the one including Oz? Occam's Razor >and all that. Well, for example, the entire story on Peter saving Oz from the Nome King was supposed to have been in the papers(in Philadelphia) and the word would have spread all around. And if Speedy's uncle is to famous, how come none of us have ever heard of him? Plus, the Shaggy Man seems to know quite a bit of magic-workers and appears to know quite a bit anbout magic, despite living in a 'humdrum' world. These, and many other incidents in the FF books prove that there has to be some kind of secondary-world which is rather 'magical', even though the parrerel-earthers may still call it 'humdrum'. >Although I question the reasoning in PG; "Beware the Woozy" no more implies >that there's only one Woozy in the universe than "Beware the dog" implies >there's only one dog. It only implies that there's only one that's an >immediate potential danger. Precisely! >I can recall one theory (I'm not sure who came up with it, but it might have >been Hearn or Pattrick) that was sort of a variation on that. In that >theory, the enchantment only had its full effect when a rightful ruler (not >necessarily Ozma; Pastoria and his father would also have counted, as would >the "long line of fairy queens," I suppose) was on the throne. This meets >some problems, however; for instance, Nick Chopper was presumably hacked to >pieces without dying during the Wizard's reign, since it was after his >father's visit to the Emerald City (unless it was actually Pastoria's castle >that the elder Chopper had visited, and Nick was just calling it "the >Emerald City" because it was in the same location, but that would have meant >that Nick had been rusted for a LONG time). I thought of it this way...Queen Lurline's spell DID have some kind of an effect even before Ozma's reign, but it was only after she ascended that the spell reached it's full 'climax'... PARADOX IN OZ: Well, for my part, I think that Einhorn's theory for the entire non-aging process is perfectly ridiculous. In any case, the book is way too complicated for an Oz Book, and it's even MORE darker than Jack Snow's. I also think that the whole time-travelling theory was totally illogical. This book is by NO means appropriate for children...(Anbd there's no such thing as an 'adult' Oz book) ~Gehan~ *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Western People Funny, Western People Funny, Western People Funny, Of that there is no doubt They feel so sentimental, about the Oriental, they always try to turn us Upside down and inside out They think they civilize us Whenever they advise us To learn to make the same mistakes That they are making too! -- 'Western People Funny' (The King and I) *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 06:22:08 -0600 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-2000 Nathan: >This meets >some problems, however; for instance, Nick Chopper was presumably hacked to >pieces without dying during the Wizard's reign, My explanation for that is that the enchantment of the axe was such that it was non-fatal (ditto for Capt. Fyter's sword somewhat later). This seems reasonable, since the Tin Woodman beheads a wildcat and forty wolves later in the book and they are described as being Dead. This might, of course, be a difference between animals and humans, but there are other discussions in various books that indicate that in normal circumstances traumatic injuries can kill Ozites even during Ozma's reign (although in other books it's stated that each piece of an Ozite would continue to be alive; it's one of the inconsistencies in the books). So I think there must have been something special about the spells on the axe and sword that allowed Nick and Capt. Fyter to go on living through dismemberment. Arlem: >Does anyone have any idea if the Hidden Prince of Oz is available yet? the >IWOC site is dreadful slow with updates........ I'm sure it's not; as a board member I'd have heard if it were. David G.: >Well, Herodotus dated Homer (who refers to witches, or at least a sorceress >or two) to the 9th century BC (if you believe Herodotus) and a more modern >source (Georg Luck) suggests that some of his material was in the form of >oral traditions from the Bronze Age. Herodotus isn't particularly reliable about things that happened during his lifetime, much less what happened half a millennium earlier. But it's probably true that some of Homer is based on oral traditions from the Bronze Age; the difficulty is knowing what parts. We have nothing in the way of literature from Greece between about the 12th and 9th centuries, and the dating of what we have from the 8th and 9th centuries is pretty nebulous. >Or we might point out that the oldest >actual written text that we physically possess is the Septuagint (in Greek, >based on memorized Hebrew) from the 3rd century BC. I don't think we have actual written text of the Septuagint dating back before the 2d or 3d century CE, if you mean pieces of papyrus or vellum that were written at that time. I think the Dead Sea Scrolls are the earliest physical documents we have of the Torah, dating from somewhere in the 2d century BCE to the first century CE. But the Septuagint wasn't based on memorized Hebrew; it was based on Hebrew texts. The Torah itself was almost certainly in existence as written documents by 500 BCE, though some of the other books in the Hebrew Bible are more recent. How much earlier, who knows? But you're right that it's almost certain that the Sumerians or Assyrians or Elamites or Egyptians or Chinese mentioned female magic-workers earlier than either the Greeks or Jews. I just don't happen to know of a specific example, unless you count goddesses. Gehan: > > 1) How did L. Frank Baum and his successors on our Earth learn > >about Oz if Dorothy lived on a different Earth and in a different America? > >I think we should ask the AUTHORS that. With a Ouija board? Except for the McGraws, all the "canonical" authors are dead. >BTW, I pictured how >I THOUGHT Trot should look like, before I saw any illustrations, and once I >DID, I realised that she is EXACTLY the way I pictured her. Isn't that >strange? So which way did she look? In the first three books where she appears Neill drew her as blonde; then in later books he gives her black hair (probably to contrast with Dorothy and Betsy). Jeremy: >Re story arcs vs. series: >Either can be very effective. Of course. I was just pointing out that they're different forms of literature and thus difficult to rank vs. each other. Like comparing a Wilde play to a Dickens novel. >Implication that the Cowardly Lion hunts: >I can't see that being in his character, despite the suggestions in >WIZARD. If he wasn't hunting, why would he have been ashamed to let Dorothy know what he'd been doing? Doug: >At least the "witch of Endor" has a name regardless of her abilities, magic >or otherwise. The other replies and references, which I enjoyed, only >referred to generic witches, and none with proper names. The "witch of Endor" doesn't have a proper name either. She does, however, have an individual personality, which the prohibition in Exodus doesn't. The earliest known reference to a female magic-worker is probably in Egyptian or Sumerian literature, but I don't know what it would be. Medea and Circe are a couple of early Greek examples who do have proper names, but dating their first appearance is difficult. I believe that the result of the contest about Chick the Cherub's gender ended with prizes being given for the best explanation of why a boy and why a girl both. Personally, I've always felt that he was a boy, just because he acts more like Tip and Zeb and Button-Bright and Ojo and Woot than like Dorothy and Betsy and Trot, but that's hardly conclusive, and may just fit in with your theory that male readers think "boy" and female readers think "girl." Any of our female correspondents have an opinion? Ruth? Lisa? Robin? Dave: Sorry to hear of your computer troubles. So where does one acquire _Paradox in Oz_? David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Mar 00 13:46:27 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: cherubic oz Regarding Pendexter's "3 Witches" -- it would probably be helpful if people on the list who actually want to get copies of it (and would be willing to pay something for it) would identify themselves as being in the market. Then if copies turn up (for instance, in a local second- hand store), finders could notify seekers. Dougwmson: Your speculation that male readers might see Chick the Cherub as a boy and female readers might see Chick as a girl -- interesting thought, although Chick always seemed like a boy to me. (I forget who it was who suggested that Baum's Chick is brave, not given to tears or fits of depression, and therefore -- compared, say, to Baum's Ojo, Inga, Dorothy, or Trot -- likely to be a girl.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:14:44 -0500 From: Edward Einhorn Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-2000 Aha! At last my contributions to the mysterious "Ozzy Fund" have paid off! Thanks a lot for your comments. For obvious reasons, I have no comment about the text of my book, but I can assure you all that the illustrations are absolutely gorgeous! Eric Shanower outdid himself, espececially in the spread which shows all those other universes (any guesses as to the source of those universes?) Anyway, I must admit, I've been checking the Digest every once in a while for comments, so it was nice to read your response. Feel free to write all the nice things about my book you like. Oh, alright, you can write criticisms, too. But just bear in mind that I have a very weak constitution, and may expire at any moment. So there. Now write all the bad things you like, if you can bear the guilt. Edward Einhorn ====================================================================== From: Ozisus@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:56:23 EST Subject: Eloped! Good morning, my friends, One-hundred fifty-eight years ago today, March 10, 1842, Benjamin Ward Baum ran off with Cynthia Ann Stanton. Without that determined romance, there'd have been no L. Frank, no Oz, and no companionable Oz friends (although I, personally, would be getting a heck of a lot more sleep). Makes it a good day to think about how much this ostensibly simple story has effected our lives. Enjoy some reflection. Ever thine, Jane ====================================================================== From: Ozisus@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:42:21 EST Subject: Contest Guidelines Here's the contest guidelines. I'm copying and pasting them from the site so I hope the screwy formatting isn't a problem. I'm picking up my email through www.aol.com from the office so I don't have them handy on a Word document. Thanks again, Jane The International Wizard of Oz Club will award cash prizes in three contests during the Oz Centennial conference this summer. You are invited to contribute original material in any of the competitions. Research: Papers of any length that address a topic relevant to Oz or its creators will be considered for a $500 cash prize. Although five special-interest topics have been identified for presentation tracks at the event (Life and Work of L. Frank Baum; Oz Collecting; Comparative Literature/Literary Criticism; Life in the Land of Oz; Oz on Stage and Screen), the research contest parameters place no restrictions on topic. To enter your work, mail a printed copy to Oz Research Contest Coordinator, Ruth Berman, at 2809 Drew Ave. S., Minneapolis, MN 55416. Submission deadline: June 15. Papers submitted after the deadline will be available for review on site, but we cannot guarantee their consideration for the research prize. Creative Writing: Our creative writing contest will award one $150 prize in each of four categories -- books, short story, dramatic (play, screenplay, puppet show, etc.) and verse/song categories. An additional $50 prize will be awarded in a children's writing category for those aged 14 and under. For prize consideration, submit creative writing prior to June 15 to Oz Creative Writing Contest Coordinator Eleanor Kennedy at 30 Minton Ave., Chatham, NJ 07928-2740. Those competing for the children's prize should indicate their age with their submission. Papers submitted after the deadline will be available for review on site, but we cannot guarantee their consideration for a creative writing prize. Art: Unlike the other competitions, material submitted for the $500 art prize will be judged on site. There are no restrictions on this contest; only one cash prize has been funded. Illustration work, graphic design, three-dimensional pieces, digital any media you like will be considered. You may bring your work with you, or send it directly to Oz Art Contest Coordinator, John R. Neel, (a Bloomington Oz Club member), at 116 S. Heritage Road, Bloomington, IN 47408-4318. Ship to arrive before July 18, 2000). John has offered to receive shipments and move material to the site for us where it will be displayed for all participants and reviewed by our panel of judges. (And besides, we think you'll get a kick out of mailing your Oz art to a John R. Neel!) Watch the Oz Centennial web site for news of other fun competitions that may develop. Following the Centennial conference, submissions will be sent to the editors of The Baum Bugle and Oziana for their consideration. If you would prefer that your material be returned and will not be able to pick it up on site, please provide self-addressed shipping supplies with adequate postage. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:37:44 -0500 From: Ed Kenney Subject: Question... (Non-Member) I have a friend who is testing my movie knowledge. He asked me for the professor's name. I told him it was Professor Marvel. He says there is more to it than that (he says there are two parts). Can you help me? Will you help me? ====================================================================== From: RMorris306@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:38:13 EST Subject: Hungry Tiger of Oz, et al Well, since we seem to be starting on HUNGRY TIGER, I've just reread it... WARNING: THIS REVIEW CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR "HUNGRY TIGER" (as well as OZMA, RINKITINK, and several other FF Oz books) and, on the whole, it read better than I remembered. It's another of those books that takes place almost entirely outside Oz...almost entirely in Ev, in fact, for the first time since Ev was introduced in OZMA. Thompson seems to consider Ev a magical country almost indistinguishable from Oz, complete with arrested aging (she once referred to Evardo as "a boy king," even though he'd have been a young man by then if Ev's people aged at the normal rate) and lots of little countries with strange inhabitants. But, except for the aging (which Baum came up with relatively late, to explain why Dorothy and the other children didn't grow up), Ev was that way from the beginning, with its Wheelers and Nomes and dinner-pail trees and strange inhabitants like Princess Langwidere and Tik-Tok...more like Oz than Oz itself was at that point. Even the talking animals were ambiguous. Billina could talk as soon as she arrived in Ev, which is more than Toto...at least as far as we knew at that point...could do when he came to Oz in WIZARD. But Langwidere considered that unusual for a hen, and later, in RINKITINK, the Wizard considered it unusual (and proof that he was an enchanted human being) that Bilbil could talk in the Nome King's domain, underneath Ev. So could Quox, but he was from a magical country...besides which, dragons can frequently talk in fantasy, even when more conventional animals can't. And since the only animal in this book is the Hungry Tiger himself, who came from Oz (and, in fact, was IN Ev when Dorothy...and the readers...first met him), one can hardly say that Thompson's Ev is inconsistent with Baum's. Ironically enough, Thompson's Oz, though only seen at the very beginning and the very end of the book, has a few inconsistencies this time. Nobody, even Baum, ever seemed to accept completely the idea that money wasn't used in Oz...though Betsy's giving Carter a ring in exchange for an apple has overtones of the older barter system that Baum implied once or twice, and quite possibly that consideration was what led Thompson to place that capitalist paradise, Down Town (and maybe the whole book) in Ev. Six decades later Viido Polikarpus and Tappan King would use the same name in a very different children's fantasy bearing that title, for a surprisingly similar place. Both were underground cities fantasising, satirizing, and stranglely reflecting the real-life urban environment...specifically New York for Polikarpus and King's Down Town, more general in Thompson's, possibly inspired more by her native Philadelphia. (There still seems to be a lot of New York in Thompson's Down Town...I'm not sure how much contact she had with that city, living in Philadelphia and dealing mostly with a Chicago publisher, but it's hard to believe she hadn't been there and been...one way or the other...impressed.) And both Down Towns had underground tunnels leading into a realm of scheming gnomes... One of Thompson's greatest weaknesses is her haste in getting her characters into places where things happen...compare how long it took Dorothy and Billina to get to Ev and hook up with their companions in OZMA to how long it took Betsy and Carter Green. The Hungry Tiger's purpose in coming to Rash is imaginative, and entirely in keeping with his personality as Baum envisioned it--particularly in the Little Wizard story of him and the Cowardly Lion; perhaps also an inspiration for Thompson's otherwise uncharacteristic version of the latter character in HIS own book. But in Betsy's and Carter Green's journey there, one device after another...the Winding Road, the quick sandals...is introduced with no purpose or development save to get them to Rash. When I first read the book, I'd thought Thompson was doing something relatively clever, and that the shoes would turn out to be the Silver Shoes that had dropped off Dorothy's feet at the end of WIZARD. Only a moment's thought made me realize that wasn't the case (they'd hardly have been wrapped in newspaper), but it would have added a bit more thought to a hastily-contrived journey. And yet... Though Thompson didn't specifically say so, she once or twice seems close to implying that the magic of the rubies themselves is at work to bring them back to their rightful owner. At least, that's the only reasonable explanation for what's otherwise one of the wildest collections of arbitrary coincidences I can recall in an Oz book...that Carter's ruby was responsible for the road and the sandals sending him in the direction of Rash, that it continued to lead Reddy and his party in the direction of the Nome King who had the second ruby, and that the one Atmos Fere had brought him to Earth not once but twice, right in the vicinity of Reddy and the other two. As more than one poster here has pointed out, Prince Reddy's three rubies were almost certainly inspired by Prince Inga's three pearls in RINKITINK...but Thompson took them off in a different direction and added, apart from their possible magical influence, new factors. If the pink country of Rash seems like a washed-out Oz kingdom (in the Quadling country, of course...possibly it HAD been there in an earlier draft before Thompson realized that Glinda would hardly tolerate the likes of Irasha in the country she ruled), the three rubies are a more intense variant of Inga's pink pearl. Unlike Inga's pearls (which worked for whoever happened to have them, including Nikobob, Zella, and Rinkitink), the rubies worked only for their rightful owner. (The ruby that provided protection in the air didn't prevent Atmos Fere from being punctured by Ozma; and if they'd worked for others, Irasha surely would have kept them rather than throwing them away.) But they had the same ability to protect those touched by the possessor as well; just as Inga's pearl protected Rinkitink and Bilbil as long as he was touching them, so did Reddy's rubies protect Betsy, Carter, and the Hungry Tiger when they escaped from Ev. I'm glad to see Betsy in a starring role in an Oz book, which she'd never had since her first appearance in TIK-TOK and never would again, at least in the FF. Although the oldest of the three American girls Baum brought to Oz, she's generally been considered the least interesting...even in TIK-TOK, surrounded as she was by a literal army of other characters, she rarely had a chance to shine. And it's been noted before that, even though she was a single woman making her own living, Thompson had more of a tendency to put characters in stereotyped sex roles than Baum did. While Baum had had no trouble giving Dorothy more initiative than Zeb, or Trot more than Button-Bright, once Reddy came on the scene he tended to be the more prominent of the two children. Carter Green himself was one of Thompson's more successful Baum-style creations; despite his odd appearance he was intelligent and resourceful and provided adult support to the pair, much like Cap'n Bill or the Scarecrow. Immense City and its Big Wigs were another highly imaginative society that raises some questions; why are the trees, pigeons, and (presumably) real kittens all giant-sized, when the people (without their wigs) aren't? Was the city founded by real giants and later taken over by normal Ev people with their Big Wigs? Who invented them? Like the origin of Princess Langwidere's extra heads, another interesting question in Oz (actually Ev) history that someone may explain (or, for all I know, may have explained) one day. Elma is a rather strange character for an Oz book; it's very rare for children, as potential identification characters for the main readership, to be treated so unsympathetically. (Even Kiki Aru in MAGIC, the only remotely "bad" child seen in a Baum Oz book, was much more sympathetically treated.) But Thompson may well have encountered enough real-life spoiled rich brats to know that they can sometimes make life miserable for everyone...other children included. Atmos Fere is a bit reminiscent of the Loons of Loonville in TIN WOODMAN, but on the whole a well-developed character; erudite, funny, and not bad at all once Ozma...and the reader...gets to know him. The ending is a bit curious from a suspension-of-disbelief standpoint. If the Hungry Tiger is so relieved that no one will apparently know the reason he came to Rash, why was Thompson herself allowed to tell it in the book? For that matter, why would it have been so reprehensible? The Ozma who allowed Mombi to be melted so cavalierly (without even the trial granted to Eureka in DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD) in her last book wouldn't have been likely to object to the Hungry Tiger performing similar executions of (what he had every reason to believe were) dangerous criminals. (Especially since, when push came to shove, he refused to eat anybody anyway.) This time, thankfully, Ozma is back to her real self, the Baum princess who would never think of harming even the wickedest of creatures...and, as such, I thought the final fate of the villains, Irasha and Ippty, was perfect. On a final note, Thompson seems to be very fond of quasi-Arabian characters and settings...Rash being a prominent example of a trend that also includes Mudge and its ruler Mustafa, the Arabian peddler in WISHING HORSE, Humpty Bumpty the camel from Ha Ho Humbad in ENCHANTED ISLAND and of course the Red Jinn, one of her favorite characters, who she featured prominently in three books (four if you include YANKEE). Perhaps her intention was to add some ethnic diversity to Nonestica...she also gave us the ersatz Chinese Silver Islanders in ROYAL BOOK and the Gypsies in OJO...but she seems less inspired by the real Middle East than by the Arabian Nights. (Or at least, by the expurgated versions most kids of her generation, and many in mine, grew up on...I doubt either she or her publisher would have included anything like the sexuality found in the original!) In short, I found this one of Thompson's better, and better-plotted books. END OF SPOILERS David Hulan wrote: <> Since most of the other countries surrounding Oz (especially Ev...I wonder if, as Oz seems to be the United States of its continent...the biggest, most powerful, and often most desirable to those considering a new country in which to live...Baum and Thompson thought of Ev as being its Canada?) also seem to be magical in some ways, I'd certainly say so. (Some of them seem to be relatively realistic in their depiction, with only a few magical items...Pingaree, for instance...while others, like Mo, sometimes even out-Oz Oz itself for magic.) <> Neither do I. I think, as you and others have argued, that she was about 8 in WIZARD and...as the books indicate...11 or possibly 12 by the time she settled in Oz. Hearn also argued that the dress Denslow has her wearing was in a style generally used for slightly younger girls, but...given the relative poverty of Aunt Em and Uncle Henry as described in that book, it wasn't out of the question that Dorothy might have worn her old dresses for play clothes. (When their fortunes improved, albeit temporarily, by the time of OZMA, she was wearing much more stylish clothes approriate to her age. But then, she'd be more likely to "dress up" while on an ocean liner than she would while playing around the farm.) <> Well, that's more a matter of socialization and sometimes individual differences (I never had any trouble with girls, myself), but Oz reflects America in that regard in most ways, so it's good reasoning...especially since I agree with you about Tip's age. Another indicator...though not based on anything in the book itself but on Baum's known influences at the time...was Baum's interest in the stage, and on his likely reason for ending LAND as he did. PETER PAN was immensely popular and influential at the time, and, more than any book, LAND was written as the springboard to a potential play. Baum clearly thought Tip would be played by an adult actress (as Peter originally was, and often still is), so he likely thought of him as a boy around the same physical age as Peter: about 12 or 13 (young enough so his voice hasn't broken nor his beard begun to grow, but old enough to be almost as tall as an adult woman). Indeed, Oz ended up not all that dissimilar to Neverland; a pastoral paradise, ruled by an immortal, unaging child of (occasionally) uncertain gender surrounded by other unaging children brought from the civilized world, with lots of adventure and exotic people, but with mostly unthreatening and semi-comical villains. (Ruggedo seems a lot more similar to Captain Hook than he is to the Wicked Witch of the West and other villains in WIZARD, though Baum, as always, was more merciful to him than James Barrie was to Hook.) <> When William Safire put down Harry Potter in his column a month ago, there was a lot of negative mail...at least one mentioning Diana Wynne Jones (a personal favorite and acquaintance of mine) as being much in the same vein, especially her Chrestomanci novels, if not (in his opinion, and, I confess, in mine) perhaps even better. But it's understandable that the Oz books are enjoying a renewed popularity...indeed, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Rowling ended up being almost forced to continue her series after the original run she currently projects, just as Baum did after the end of EMERALD CITY. Like Baum, I suspect she'll find other protagonists for her later books (I'm sure most of the Potter fans will be happy to read about later classes at Hogwarts after Harry graduates, especially if he and/or Hermione end up becoming instructors there...I know I will). I know she's also said she wants to write an adult novel, which will probably do well on her name alone (given how many of the people who've put Harry Potter on the best seller lists were adults who got them to read themselves...like me). Then again, it might be another LAST EGYPTIAN... Doug wrote: <> It wasn't resolved, but ever since its publication many people have had their own ideas. David Hulan, for instance, has argued he was a boy, on the grounds that he was much more of a mischief-maker than any of the girls Baum created in his other books. But I'm inclined to disagree...ironically enough, by the same social argument David used to guess Tip's age earlier (on which I agree). After all...then even more than now, given the social roles of the day...I find it hard to imagine that any boy his age (around 8 or 9, possibly 10), especially then, would want to be mistaken for a girl. He'd be sure to tell everyone as quickly and as often as possible, ESPECIALLY if he had an androgynous appearance and/or was dressed in androgynous clothing. But I could easily see Chick as a mischievous tomboy, a type well-known even then in literature (and real life), choosing her androgynous appearance BECAUSE she was an unusual girl and knew it, but was quite happy to allow others to take her for a boy without her ever specifically saying so. (Reminiscent of Prince Marvel in THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW, a female fairy who assumed male form because boys had all the adventures. Although, in both cases, Baum was once again thinking of the gender-bending of the British pantomime and PETER PAN that I'd mentioned before. Still, when JOHN DOUGH was adapted for the stage, I'm pretty sure Chick was played by a female.) Scott Hutchins wrote: <> I have mixed feelings about that. He's hardly the only actor to have a stage name--I would assume this database would also include movies featuring (to pick a pair of random examples) John Wayne and Cary Grant, and I can't imagine anyone updating the listings to THEIR real names (Marion Morrison and Archibald Leach, IIRC). Then again. G. Howe Black was hardly a star on a par with Wayne or Grant, or even with Stepin Fetchit (also not his real name, and I confess I forget what it was...Charles Perry?). He was stuck in stereotyped roles with a bad pun (like Fetchit's) for a stage name, and didn't even (at least from my limited exposure to him) rise above them as Fetchit often did...so at least he arguably deserves the dignity of having his real name used. <> Well, as Hearn noted in THE ANNOTATED WIZARD OF OZ, Baum sometimes made it seem in that book as if EVERYONE in Oz was short. (Philip Jose Farmer followed that notion in A BARNSTORMER IN OZ, but I don't recall anyone else doing so, including Baum). In later books it was at first only the Munchkins who were short (a concept the MGM movie followed), and eventually not even all Munchkins (since the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman, both Munchkins, were generally drawn by Neill as the same height as normal adults). Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> Wasn't Ozma said to have a developed bosom...at least developed enough to carry things in...in GLINDA? And, as I think I've noted before, many people then would have considered her a "little girl" even at 14 or 15 (her age according to Baum in later books). A 14-year-old is referred to as a "little girl" in one of the Sherlock Holmes stories, and, at a time when "girl" was often used by itself to refer to a grown woman (which, as I've also noted, confused me at first as to the physical age of Scraps the Patchwork "Girl"), "little" could simply have been meant to indicate that she wasn't (physically) an adult. Great Digest this time! Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:39:03 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digests past I'm still catching up here. Sorry for the inconvenience. The 23rd-- S. Teller: Who published TOTO AND ALL THE CATS OF OZ? Changing hair colors: It's all whether you live or diet . . . The 28th-- Location of Oz and how Baum found it: I think that, to expand on one of J.L. Bell's suggestions, there are numerous universes, many with an Oz in it, and so Baum somehow "found" one, or one found him. RPT found or was found by another slightly different one, and so forth. It's just a theory. Manipulative Lurline: Why not? I see no reason why we can't think she deliberately "tinkers" with events as they occur so that Oz is in the end better off. Not manipulative in a negative way at all (I don't see it that way, at least), but does what she does for good. And that makes all the difference. Magic Belt vs Pink Pearls: True, the Belt's all-purposeness means it has to spread its usefulness out over several different purposes. Sort of like Microsoft Works or Symphony (by Lotus) cs. Word Perfect and Lotus 1-2-3. Ev-en more debate: A thought just struck me: What connection do you think there is between "Ev" and "Evil"? When Dorothy arrived there in OZMA, after all, it was run by Langwidere (however you spell it), definitely not a nice person, even if not "evil" per se. If others have brought this up in the past (perhaps while we were discussing OZMA) I apologize for the repetition. Pair o' Docs in Oz: Who published PARADOX IN OZ? Your glowing recommendation intrigued me, Dave. Ozzily yours (and now caught up!), Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/kivel99/ ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Mar 00 21:35:42 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ROBIN WROTE: >Dave, did you ever write the story? Great premise. Please write it >if you haven't already done so. If it is/does get written, submit it >to _Oziana_, please. --Robin I will when I write it. I may even submit it for the Fiction Table at the Centennial Convention. WINONA IN OZ: Atticus wrote: >I've been reading the Digests, anyway, and I don't recall any mention of >_Girl, Interrupted_, Winona Ryder's latest flick. I was quite surprised to >see a scene displaying a number of Oz books... and the Oz-obsessed character >even managed to get in the comment that the shoes are really silver. Noni's character is an Oz fan?? I wonder if Noni herself is... (You know, she's my choice for Ozma or Jellia in a hypothetical Oz movie...) MORE PARADOXES: John wrote: >A final comment, not just about PARADOX: Many books about time >travel involve the ability to change the present by changing the past. >And that depends on an assumption we've never been able to prove: that life >could have been different. I think many physicists believe that things *can* be different and are not pre-determined, if only because this is the only view that seems consistent with Quantum Theory. David Hulan wrote: >So where does one acquire _Paradox in Oz_? Hungry Tiger Press: TigerBooks@aol.com AL GORE IN OZ??: Scott's sig says: >"Who's John Adams?" --Vice President Albert Gore, Jr., at Monticello, >after failing to recognize busts of other founding fathers. People, I'm not going to engage in censorship, but I'd really prefer it if there were no political statements on the Digest ( unless they're pro-Ozma :) ). RICH M.: >When William Safire put down Harry Potter in his column a month ago, >there was a lot of negative mail... O.K., what did Willian Safire have to say? (Maybe give a URL if it's online?) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 15 - 16, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:13:59 -0800 From: "Peter E. Hanff" Subject: For the Ozzy Digest Craig Case has alerted me to a handsomely produced edition of Clement Clarke Moore's The Night Before Christmas from Chronicle Books of San Francisco. The book reprints three of Denslow's illustrations from his version of The Night Before Christmas, as well as illustrations from other prominent twentieth-century artists. The Night Before Christmas: A Classic Illustrated Edition. By Clement C. Moore. Compiled by Cooper Edens and Harold Darling. 9 x 11 in; 44 pp; Full color throughout. $16.95 HARDCOVER / ISBN: 0811817121 As Craig says, current books illustrated by Denslow are hard to find. Peter ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-14-2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:57:50 GMT David Godwin: >Oz Kids: >I have now seen videos of several of these episodes, and confess that I am >confused. Even though the cartoons incorporate many ideas from the Baum >books - including _The Sea Fairies_ - no adults are ever shown living in >the >EC except the Big Four and the Wizard (and Rick from New York City). Well, I don't think the Oz Kids episodes were intended to be canonical. J. L. Bell: >"Oh! I'm melting! I'm melting! You horrible men, how can you watch this?" That was very amusing. Gehan: >Well, for example, the entire story on Peter saving Oz from the Nome King >was supposed to have been in the papers(in Philadelphia) and the word would >have spread all around. Yes, that bothered me a bit, too. Still, we're never told that it the story was printed in GOOD papers, are we? I tend to doubt that a major press would print a story about a boy saving the Emerald City of Oz, and a smaller press probably wouldn't have had large enough circulation for the news to really spread. >And if Speedy's uncle is to famous, how come none of >us have ever heard of him? Maybe the American government wanted to cover up the fact that he had made advances in space travel that the rest of the world wasn't ready for. >Plus, the Shaggy Man seems to know quite a bit of >magic-workers and appears to know quite a bit anbout magic, despite living >in a 'humdrum' world. When did the Shaggy Man show knowledge of magic? If it was after _Road_, then he probably picked it up in the Emerald City. If not, maybe he just read a lot, or heard a lot of stories about magic. Either way, however, it certainly seems like more of these instances of differences in the Outside World appear in Thompson's contributions than in those of Baum and other authors. This tendency of Thompson's is somewhat bothersome, since it hinders suspension of disbelief. Thompson's biggest "crime" in this area, however, occurred in _Yankee_. In this book, it's mentioned that Yankee's space launch made national news, but I don't think you could find any record of the United States launching a dog named Yankee into space, with or without the Oz connection. That's one thing that makes this book kind of difficult as far as canonical Oz is concerned. (The fairly weak plot and characters are different matters.) David Hulan: >This might, of course, be >a difference between animals and humans, but there are other discussions in >various books that indicate that in normal circumstances traumatic injuries >can kill Ozites even during Ozma's reign (although in other books it's >stated that each piece of an Ozite would continue to be alive; it's one of >the inconsistencies in the books). Well, it's possible that the pieces are technically alive, but most Ozian societies, not having sufficient magic to reassemble dismembered people, simply consider them to be dead. Ruth Berman: >Regarding Pendexter's "3 Witches" -- it would probably be helpful if >people on the list who actually want to get copies of it (and would be >willing to pay something for it) would identify themselves as being in >the market. Then if copies turn up (for instance, in a local second- >hand store), finders could notify seekers. I'd probably be willing to buy one, if I could get it for a fairly low price. I don't exactly have the funds to be able to afford the prices that some rare book dealers charge. Rich Morrissey: > Immense City and its Big Wigs were another highly imaginative society >that raises some questions; why are the trees, pigeons, and (presumably) >real >kittens all giant-sized, when the people (without their wigs) aren't? Was >the >city founded by real giants and later taken over by normal Ev people with >their Big Wigs? Strangely enough, I had thought of that same possibility before I had read that far in your message. >Elma is >a rather strange character for an Oz book; it's very rare for children, as >potential identification characters for the main readership, to be treated >so >unsympathetically. (Even Kiki Aru in MAGIC, the only remotely "bad" child >seen in a Baum Oz book, was much more sympathetically treated.) But >Thompson >may well have encountered enough real-life spoiled rich brats to know that >they can sometimes make life miserable for everyone...other children >included. Elma might have been the first spoiled rich kid to have a significant role in an Oz book. Inga was a prince, but he didn't act spoiled, really. Rinkitink and Kabumpo were essentially spoiled rich characters, but they weren't children (although Rinkitink often acted like one). > On a final note, Thompson seems to be very fond of quasi-Arabian >characters and settings...Rash being a prominent example of a trend that >also >includes Mudge and its ruler Mustafa, the Arabian peddler in WISHING HORSE, >Humpty Bumpty the camel from Ha Ho Humbad in ENCHANTED ISLAND and of course >the Red Jinn, one of her favorite characters, who she featured prominently >in >three books (four if you include YANKEE). There's also Samandra. I believe I already mentioned this during the _Cowardly Lion_ discussion, but both _Cowardly Lion_ and _Hungry Tiger_ start out with a quasi-Turkish ruler wanting to capture one of the famous big cats of Oz. Of course, in the Lion's book, Mustafa's attempts to capture the cat constituted the major plot, while the Pasha's capture of the Tiger is only a jumping-off point for the book's main plot. Speaking of the Pasha, what IS his name? My edition (Del Rey) calls him both "Irasha" and "Irashi." Is that true of all versions of the book? > Since most of the other countries surrounding Oz (especially Ev...I >wonder if, as Oz seems to be the United States of its continent...the >biggest, most powerful, and often most desirable to those considering a new >country in which to live...Baum and Thompson thought of Ev as being its >Canada?) also seem to be magical in some ways, I'd certainly say so. (Some >of >them seem to be relatively realistic in their depiction, with only a few >magical items...Pingaree, for instance...while others, like Mo, sometimes >even out-Oz Oz itself for magic.) Speaking of this, isn't it mentioned in _Rinkitink_ that King Gos didn't believe in magic? This seems a bit odd, considering his nation's alliance with the Nomes. > Well, as Hearn noted in THE ANNOTATED WIZARD OF OZ, Baum sometimes >made >it seem in that book as if EVERYONE in Oz was short. (Philip Jose Farmer >followed that notion in A BARNSTORMER IN OZ, but I don't recall anyone else >doing so, including Baum). In later books it was at first only the >Munchkins >who were short (a concept the MGM movie followed), and eventually not even >all Munchkins (since the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman, both Munchkins, >were >generally drawn by Neill as the same height as normal adults). I don't believe that _Land_ and _Ozma_ really give any indication as to the height of the Ozites. _Dorothy and the Wizard_ features a Munchkin who only reaches Zeb's shoulder, but I think that's the last mention of Muchkins being short. Later books introduced plenty of fairly tall Munchkins: Unc Nunkie and his nephew, Ree Alla Bad, come to mind. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:57:10 -0600 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-14-2000 TYLER: >Chris Dulabone gave me a few leads, although he does not know where >Pendexter lives. According to Chris, Hugh turned over his copyrights on all >of his material to two grandchildren, Ellen Ackerman and Peter Ackerman. >Uswestdex.com lists 17 Ellen Ackermans and 25 Peter Ackermans. No listing >for Hugh Pendexter is in there nor for Pen Press (his publisher). An >internet search on Pen Press also turned up nothing. I checked my copy of _The Crocheted Cat in Oz_, which is dedicated to and copyrighted (1988) in the name of an Elizabeth Ackerman, Pendexter's "first grandchild." Looks like you're probably dealing with adolescents at the oldest, and I know that I didn't have a telephone listing until I was 19. Pen Press is a vanity one; you wouldn't find it listed anywhere. But on the plus side, how many kids can afford a lawyer? RICH MORRISSEY: A lengthy and lovely _Hungry Tiger_ post. DAVE HARDENBROOK: >WINONA IN OZ: >Atticus wrote: > >I've been reading the Digests, anyway, and I don't recall any mention of > >_Girl, Interrupted_, Winona Ryder's latest flick. I was quite surprised to > >see a scene displaying a number of Oz books... and the Oz-obsessed character > >even managed to get in the comment that the shoes are really silver. > >Noni's character is an Oz fan?? I wonder if Noni herself is... (You know, >she's my choice for Ozma or Jellia in a hypothetical Oz movie...) No, it's one of the supporting actresses. She plays yet another Oz fanatic who must be institutionalized. Atticus * * * "She reads at such a pace," she complained, "and when I asked her *where* she had learnt to read so quickly she replied, 'On the screens at Cinemas.'" My website: http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:28:26 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Who wants to be an Ozzyaire? Raise your hand if you could have won $500,000 this week on Regis' show, on the question "In L. Frank Baum's 1900 book, /The Wizard of Oz/, what color were Dorothy's magic slippers? " (Choices were black, ruby, silver, and blue(?)) The contestant chose to walk away with $250,000 rather than risk getting the answer wrong. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== From: "Arlem" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-14-2000 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:58:44 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" Jeremy: March Laumer's books are copyrighted, and he does have an estate. Perhaps Chris D. or someone on this digest knows who is in charge of it and may be willing to negotiate. Since I know for a fact that the late Mr. Laumer has an active estate, I absolutely will not post any of his works on my website without explicit permission from his estate. I've been in touch with his friend Wally about buying his boks and it seems that it has to wait til his estate is settled, which is complicated by the fact that he left 2 wills, one in the US and one in Europe. He's promised to let me know when/if they're available. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:06:01 -0500 From: "John W. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-2000 David Hulan wrote: > John K.: > >Others have gone for [Dorothy as 6 in tWWoO) without that reason -- see the > >Annotated Wizard of Oz. > > Yes, but Hearn was making the assumption that each Oz book in which Dorothy > appeared occupied one year of her life. I know of no reason to believe > that, and considerable reason not to. He adduces other reasons, including the illustrations. > >Lower-case letters are a medieval development, and the regular > >use of mixed case came later still. > > In Greek? I could have sworn that I've seen copies of 1st-century Greek > manuscripts written using mixed-case letters, though I'll admit that I > don't have an example ready at hand. I'll keep an eye on BAR over the next > few months to see if I spot one... I can't seem to find anything directly addressing use of dual case in Greek. > >Belief in witches is found in all cultures, at all times. > > If by "witch" you mean "female worker of magic," then I'm sure you're > largely correct (though any use of "all" is somewhat suspect to me). And > that seems to have been how Baum defined the term. On the other hand, the > medieval Christian definition included Satan-worship as part of it, and > that's not by any means as universal as all that. (Since Satan himself > isn't that universal.) No, I mean "unpopular neighbor (usually, but not always, a woman) whose alleged maleficent use of supernatural powers is blamed for everything that goes wrong." Naturally, the specific connection of this universal superstition with the specifically Christian Satan is a specifically Christian aberration, but Christianity neither created it, nor, for much of history, encouraged or even tolerated it. (In Carolingian times, the Church expressly -- and accurately -- condemned witch trials as a wicked holdover from paganism.) In recent years, of course, we're more inclined to call them "communists" or (I regret to say, since the problem is sometimes very real) "child molestors". David Godwin wrote: > Or we might point out that the oldest > actual written text that we physically possess is the Septuagint (in Greek, > based on memorized Hebrew) from the 3rd century BC. Huh? Who ever said that the LXX was based on memorized Hebrew? > Incidentally, and perhaps somewhat off-topic, as this whole discussion is > getting to be, I have found it extraordinarily difficult to find any > reliable information about the history of witchcraft. Almost everything on > the subject has been written by a true believer, either pro (modern Wiccans > and neo-Pagans) or con (such as Montague Summers), and even the article in > the 1968 edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica that I have was written by > none other than Margaret Murray, whose pronouncements on the subject have > been thoroughly discredited. Otherwise, one is left with works by people > with some special axe to grind about cult survivals or the like. Get a more up-to-date Britannica, which implicitly apologizes for the Murray article and all the chaos, lies and nonsense it has engendered over the years. Don't forget Reginald Scot's "The Discoverie of Witchcraft", a skeptical view by a Renaissance scholar (including the earliest significant discussion of stage magic) that aroused the wrath of James VI/I. Summers' edition was reprinted recently by Dover. Charles Williams wrote an interesting book on the subject, though it is rather selective. It was reprinted in paperback in the 70's, so it shouldn't be too impossible to locate. (Judging from internal evidence, it was Fry's principal research for "The Lady's Not for Burning". And reread Shakespeare's "Henry VI, part 2" after reading it, too.) Ozmama@aol.com wrote: > Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 18:10:30 EST > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-28-2000 > > John Kennedy:<< Ozmama@aol.com wrote: > > The _OED_ gives 1659 as the earliest appearance of the word "witch," > > but it's not used then as "magic worker." Odd. > > Huh? The OED tracks the word back to the 9th century. And _belief_ in > witches is as old and as widespread as humanity -- far older than the > English language.>> > > My _OED_ (_Oxford Universal English Dictionary_, c.1937. Not every English Dictionary from Oxford is the Oxford English dictionary. See http://www.oed.com for the real thing. -- -John W. Kennedy -rri0189@ibm.net Compact is becoming contract Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:31:24 -0500 From: "John W. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-14-2000 Aandihorn@aol.com wrote: > Perhaps you can help me settle a disagreement I am having with a friend about > "OZ". > > My friend insists that this film was 'hand colored' frame by frame. > Rediculous! I say. True story, wrong (I suppose) movie. L. Frank Baum, the author of the original book and over a dozen sequels, went on tour with a sort of illustrated lecture series, entitled "Fairylogue and Radio Plays". The "Radio Plays" (named for Michel Radio -- pronounced "rah-dyo", the inventor) were indeed hand-tinted silent films. They're extinct, alas, though some B&W footage of a different silent "Oz" film has been mistakenly identified as it in some older sources. J. L. Bell wrote: > Any science-fiction scholars want to comment on when the notion of > parallel dimensions/universes/Earths became popular in that genre? 50's or so. Some roots in the 40's. -- -John W. Kennedy -rri0189@ibm.net Compact is becoming contract Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Mar 00 10:41:32 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: colors/wizard in oz J.L. Bell: Enjoyed the Mombi Miming Melting riff! (Also enjoyed the "Paradox" review here and the one of the Boy Fortune Hunters HT reprint in winter "Bugle.") Rich Morrissey: Enjoyed your comments on "Hungry Tiger" -- like you, I enjoyed seeing Betsy get a lead role. I think I'll hold off on any further comments, though, as Dave hadn't actually set a start-date for discussing the book yet, and so there may be people who would be interested in the discussion who have not yet read it and plan to once given a deadline. Dave Hardenbrook: I don't recall the exact date, but Safire's column on the Whitbread award appeared end of January or start of February in the NY "Times." He argued that Heaney's translation of "Beowulf" must necessarily be more deserving of the award than "Harry Potter" because "Beowulf," after all, is a great book (it does not seem to have occurred to him that the greatness of the original doesn't tell you anything about whether a given translation of it is any good or not), and Heaney is a great poet who has already won a Nobel Prize and therefore any work of his is undoubtedly also great, whereas the "Harry Potter" books are just kids' books. He caught himself at that point and inserted an admission that kids' books might in fact be great literature, as in "Alice," but he didn't think the "Harry Potter" books were. He apparently hadn't read the translation, and it wasn't clear if he'd read the HP books or not. I sent a note to aandihorn@aol.com as follows: Subject: color in oz You are correct. The 1939 "Wizard of Oz" was filmed in Technicolor, not colored frame-by-frame by hand. A good book for questions about the movie is Aljean Harmetz' "The Making of the Wizard of Oz" (a library could probably get a copy for you to borrow). If you are interested in the movie -- have you tried reading the original book by L. Frank Baum (and the sequels by Baum and continued after his death by other writers)? The original book is itself quite spectacular in its color work (artist: W.W. Denslow), and is available in a facsimile reprint from Morrow/Books of Wonder (or libraries could get it), and many of the sequels also had attractive color plates (artist: John R. Neill). and to ed.kenney@enterpriseigny.com Subject: name of wizard of oz Professor Marvel's name is Professor Marvel. No other name is given. A good book for answering questions like this is the edition of the script of "The Wizard of Oz," edited by Michael Patrick Hearn (a library could probably find a copy for you to borrow). Your friend might perhaps have been thinking of the actor's name (Frank Morgan), or of the several roles besides Professor Marvel he played in the movie (Guardian of the Gate, cabman of the Horse of a Different Color, Soldier with the Green Whiskers, and the Wizard of Oz). Or your friend might have been thinking of one of L. Frank Baum's later Oz books, "Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz," in which the Wizard reveals his full name (Oscar Zoroaster Phadrig Isaac Norman Emanuel Ambrose Diggs). Incidentally, this book, and a good many other Oz books (including the original, "The Wizard of Oz") have been reprinted in facsimile, including the color-work (use of different colors of pages in "D&W," gorgeous color plates in "Wizard" and many of the others), by Morrow/Books of Wonder (bookstores might have these, or could order them, likewise available to borrow through libraries). Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:08:51 -0800 Errors-To: apapke@xoommail.com X-Loop: xoommail.com From: Andrew Papke Subject: Oz Book Ideas Does anyone have any good ideas for oz books? I'm have written one so far, "Tarquinia in Oz", that includes such characters as Talismonous, Tarquinia's pet griffin, Tinktok, Tik-Tok's metallic wife, Tarquinia's six aunts that have the power to change into animals, and many new unincharted (because I created them) lands that are explored by Tarquina, Talismonous, and Aunt Ozora. You can e-mail me at apapke@xoommail.com or by phone at (248) 652-2916. I'd also like to chat to other Oz fans. Thanks everyone. Thanks, Andrew Papke Fellow Oz Fan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Mar 00 12:13:25 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "GREAT" BOOKS: Does _Harry Potter_ make the top ten list of books trashed by those who have never read them? I wonder what Mr. Safire would say about the Oz Books... Jellia: Probably, "Books? What books???" BOOKS YET TO COME: Andrew Papke wrote: >Does anyone have any good ideas for oz books? To paraphrase Mark Twain: "Say you are an Oz fan... Now say you have an idea for an Oz book... But I repeat myself..." (Fortunately, Oz publishers abound around here...) >Tinktok, Tik-Tok's metallic wife... "The Great Oz has spoken" (so to speak) regarding Ozma having a hubby; so now guys, how does a spouse for *Tik-Tok* strike you? :) Who is Tarquinia? I gather this is an established character... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 17 - 19, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: Kiex@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:12:40 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-16-2000 > I checked my copy of _The Crocheted Cat in Oz_, which is dedicated to and > copyrighted (1988) in the name of an Elizabeth Ackerman, Pendexter's "first > grandchild." Looks like you're probably dealing with adolescents at the > oldest, and I know that I didn't have a telephone listing until I was 19. > Pen Press is a vanity one; you wouldn't find it listed anywhere. But on > the plus side, how many kids can afford a lawyer? But that's no reason to publish / distribute their work sans approval! I know how I'd feel if someone distributed copies of my book so that others could read it without purchasing it. There must be a better way. Until later, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:46:12 -0700 charset="iso-8859-1" Rubies of the Tiger: The idea that the Rash Rubies are acting behind the scenes to restore themselves to their rightful owner is interesting. It's similar to the One Ring from _LOTR_. Nathan: Once, I speculated that Gos did not believe in magic because his island may have been at the edge of the "magic zone", so that magical power was very low there. Today, I would re-phrase that by saying that the island is in an area of low magical currents. Still, it's an odd attitude given the Nomes and the monster Choggenmugger on the island. Also, with all of the travels and conquests that he and his people have made, one would suppose that he would have seen SOME magic. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:49:10 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-16-2000 In a message dated 3/16/00 2:54:38 PM Central Standard Time, OzDigest@mindspring.com writes: John Kennedy:<< Not every English Dictionary from Oxford is the Oxford English dictionary. See http://www.oed.com for the real thing.>> Sheesh, John, if I say it's an OED, it's an OED. Mine is "from the original Oxford English Dictionary, which represents an editorial investment of $1,500,000, this shorter Oxford English Dictionary is adapted. Its contents have been carefully selected from 414,825 definitions and 1.827,306 illustrative quotations. It is the result of 75 years of active compilation." It seems they "adapted" the earlier entries of the word "witch" right out of the entries. I like their title page wording, though! Oh, it's all in caps but, as we know, I hate all caps writing. Anyway, it's the edition I use most frequently. I can read the type without resorting to the magnifying glass from my 2-vol. compact edition; I like the feeling of a book in my hand, rather than going to the web; and I can't afford a more complete set. This 10-vol. usually serves me well. Ruth says: <<. A good book for questions about the movie is Aljean Harmetz' "The Making of the Wizard of Oz" (a library could probably get a copy for you to borrow). >> Yep, and another excellent book is _The Wizard of Oz: The Official Fiftieth AnniversaryPictorial History_ by John Fricke, Jay Scarfone, and Bill Stillman. The pictures are terrific, and so is the commentary. Dave Hardenbrook:<<"The Great Oz has spoken" (so to speak) regarding Ozma having a hubby;so now guys, how does a spouse for *Tik-Tok* strike you? :)>> Oddly, that doesn't bother me much, and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because Tik-Tok is not as major a character, say, as the Tin Woodman or Ozma. It would bother me quite a lot if one of them obtained a spouse, but I might be able to accept someone's creating a wife for Tik-Tok, if the premise for such a creation were strong enough. On the other hand, why would he want or need one? He does what he's wound up to do, but there's never much indication of sentiment in Tik-Tok. Harry Potter: I don't care what Safire says. The series is encouraging hundreds of thousands of usually nonreaders to get involved with reading. ...much more so than any translation of _Beowulf_! Don't get me wrong: I love _Beowulf_, but the Harry Potter books are doing a great deal of good. Of course that's prob'ly not what that particular award is based on, but I find that I don't care. Logic be hanged here. I'm vehemently pro-Potter. ;o) Believe it or not, folks, the 1999 _Oziana_ is almost ready to go to print. Hey, it's only March...of 2000.... The 2000 issue will be ready by convention this summer. It'll be very good to get back on schedule. I need illustrators. If you or anyone you know is a good one, please contact me. I'd love to see samples and would be delighted to find a good artist to liven up the magazine's pages. I could also use one more story for the 2000 issue, although I believe I'll have enough for a short issue. But I'd like to have it be 28 or 32 pages again. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 17 Mar 00 09:09:06 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: oops in oz I mis-spoke in telling Ed Kenney that "Dorothy/Wizard" has different colors of paper rather than color plates. That was "Road." The unusual color element in "Dorothy/Wizard" is that it was one of the only two books (the other being "Emerald City") in which the color plates were made directly from color paintings by Neill, rather than from b&w drawings to which color was added. Andrew Papke: If you are looking for original Oz stories by other Oz fans to read -- yes, there are a lot of them. You might want to send your postal-address to plgnyc@earthlink.com and ask for the Books of Wonder catalogue, and to tigerbooks@aol.com to ask for the Hungry Tiger Books catalogue. The International Wizard of Oz Club, PO Box 266, Kalamazoo MI 49004-0266 publishes an annual fiction magazine, "Oziana" (edited by Robin Olderman) as well as the Club's thrice-yearly journal, the "Baum Bugle" -- send them a self-addressed stamped envelope for information on prices and availability. And there are a lot more besides those, but it's enough for a start. Dave Hardenbrook: Tarquinia isn't a character in the R&L Oz books -- must be Andrew Papke's own invention. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:52:36 -0600 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-16-2000 PETER HANFF: >Craig Case has alerted me to a handsomely produced edition of Clement >Clarke Moore's The Night Before Christmas from Chronicle Books of San >Francisco. The book reprints three of Denslow's illustrations from his >version of The Night Before Christmas, as well as illustrations from other >prominent twentieth-century artists. > >The Night Before Christmas: A Classic Illustrated Edition. By Clement C. >Moore. Compiled by Cooper Edens and Harold Darling. 9 x 11 in; 44 pp; Full >color throughout. $16.95 HARDCOVER / ISBN: 0811817121 Peter, Cooper Edens edited another lovely volume, _The Glorious Mother Goose_, which incorporates illustrations from various collections of the nursery rhymes. Artists include Jessie Willcox Smith, Frederick Richardson (_Queen Zixi of Ix_), Fanny Cory (_The Enchanted Island of Yew_), and Randolph Caldecott. HARRY POTTER: With all the buzz about HP, I thought it might be appropriate to share a recent installment of Matt Groening's infamous _Life in Hell_ comic strip you all might find amusing. I'm having problems with website updates, so I'm attaching it to this email for Dave to post, if he likes. Atticus Attachment Converted: "K:\potter.jpg" * * * "She reads at such a pace," she complained, "and when I asked her *where* she had learnt to read so quickly she replied, 'On the screens at Cinemas.'" My website: http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== From: Kiex@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:33:28 EST Subject: more about Digests past Responding to the DIgest of the 17th (which I thought I'd done but skipped): > >Implication that the Cowardly Lion hunts: > >I can't see that being in his character, despite the suggestions in > >WIZARD. > > If he wasn't hunting, why would he have been ashamed to let Dorothy know > what he'd been doing? TRYING to hunt, whcih in his eyes would be just as bad. Until next time, Jeremy Steadman, kivel99@planetall.com ====================================================================== From: Lecomahillbilly@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:24:33 EST Subject: Pink Floyd and Wizard of Oz Connections Is it true that the Pink Floyd album, "The Wall" can be synched to The Wizard of Oz Movie? [Ed. note: Could someone here write the definitive reply to this question and I'll put it in the Ozzy Digest FAQ... -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:07:44 -0600 Subject: Oz From: "David Godwin" Nathan Mulac DeHoff wrote: >Well, I don't think the Oz Kids episodes were intended to be canonical. Really? And all this time... No, actually, my confusion arose not because of the non-canonical nature of the series but because (a) it is an Oz universe where Ozma is absent, yet (b) in one episode, Ozma is mentioned by name. I'm having trouble reconciling this. What's the scenario here? Did Ozma go back to her fairy band at some point - say, in 1939 - and leave it with the Scarecrow again, so that now she is only a figure in legend? I mean, it would be helpful to have some sort of premise, but there's never any explanation that I know of. >Gehan: > >Well, for example, the entire story on Peter saving Oz from the Nome King > >was supposed to have been in the papers... > >Yes, that bothered me a bit, too. Still, we're never told that it the story >was printed in GOOD papers, are we? Maybe it was in the Weekly World News, in which case no one would have believed it. Of course, the WWN did not exist at the time, though it's equivalent probably did. Anyway, there's no guarantee that the story won't show up eventually in WWN or The Sun as a current event. I'm sure one of us could send it in as a free-lance reporter on the scene. John W. Kennedy wrote: >Huh? Who ever said that the LXX was based on memorized Hebrew? Nobody but, alas, me. It was a case of bad memory of a paragraph in a book that I misinterpreted in the first place, and the paragraph was describing a letter that turned out to be apocryphal! The phony letter described how all 72 (or 70) rabbis were isolated in separate rooms and all came out with identical versions of the Pentateuch in Greek, thus proving divine inspiration. I just assumed when I read it that they had been working from memory. I guess that truly learned rabbis of the period might have had the Pentateuch memorized, but that doesn't mean that no written Hebrew version existed or that the compilers of the Septuagint worked from memory. And thanks for the tips on objective studies of witchcraft. Speaking of Shakespeare, by the way, isn't it in one of the Henry plays where he depicts Joan of Arc as a witch in league with hellish powers? I suppose that was the official English version before modern times. And now back to Oz... Ruth and Nathan: I actually did see a copy of Pendexter's book for sale either on an auction site or a bookfinder site, but I couldn't move fast enough to buy it. If such a thing became available, though, I'd certainly be in the market. Rich Morrissey: Your analysis of _Hungry Tiger_ was exhaustive and excellent. Thanks. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 Mar 00 13:32:48 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ANNOY THE MEDIA -- READ HARRY POTTER (AND OZ!): Robin wrote: >Harry Potter: I don't care what Safire says. The series is encouraging >hundreds of thousands of usually nonreaders to get involved with >reading. ...much more so than any translation of _Beowulf_! Don't >get me wrong: I love _Beowulf_, but the Harry Potter books are doing >a great deal of good. Of course that's prob'ly not what that particular >award is based on, but I find that I don't care. Logic be hanged here. >I'm vehemently pro-Potter. ;o) I venture to say that guys like Safire and the people on that awards committee are governed by one thing: Snobbery. Atticus wrote: >With all the buzz about HP, I thought it might be appropriate to share a >recent installment of Matt Groening's infamous _Life in Hell_ comic strip >you all might find amusing. Anyone who wants to see it, please E-mail me. OZ AND THE THREE WITCHES: Just a reminder: Alibris.com still has that one copy of _Oz and the Three WItches_ for anyone who wants it enough to pay $38 for it... On balance, I think Tyler's writing up a summary is the best solution at present... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 20 - 23, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:05:02 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: the big issues charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks, Ruth Berman, for your nice comment about my review of the BOY FORTUNE HUNTERS book in the Winter 1999 BUGLE. I'm grateful Sean Duffley gave me that assignment and the go-ahead to write at some length, and I hope folks found my remarks worth the trouble. Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <<"The Great Oz has spoken" (so to speak) regarding Ozma having a hubby; so now guys, how does a spouse for *Tik-Tok* strike you?>> CLANG! Talk about a loveless marriage. (ROAD: "You could love the Tin Woodman because he had a fine nature, kindly and simple; but the machine man you could only admire without loving, since to love such a thing as he was as impossible as to love a sewing-machine or an automobile.") David Hulan wrote: <> I like this idea, but I also recall that (according to TIN WOODMAN) the Wicked Witch of the East owned meat glue which restored Ku-Klip's finger as good as new. That implies (though only implies) that an ordinary injury was as bloodless as Nick Chopper's magical amputations. Either that, or the Wicked Witch enchanted Ku-Klip's tools the same way in order to cause him an injury which she'd then cure, cementing his loyalty to her. But in that case, why wouldn't he recognize this cut as different from all others he'd suffered in his working life? Jeremy Steadman wrote: <> This is what Glinda and, to a much lesser extent, Ozma do in the course of the series. The philosophical problems that picture might bring up in our minds are twofold: 1) Being Americans, we're brought up to dislike the idea of a hidden power deciding what's best for us and manipulating events to effect that. 2) We face the question of why Lurline allows Oz to be threatened and Ozians to suffer from bad people. She's presumably even more powerful than Glinda and Ozma, after all. Then we're left with either the Panglossian belief that all's for the best in the best of all possible Ozzes, or a Kushneresque formulation that Lurline wants to prevent all bad things from happening to good Ozians but isn't powerful enough to do that. Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> That covers only particles at a submolecular level which aren't yet observed, I believe. The astronomer and science writer Ed Regis has said that time travel backwards may not break the laws of physics, but for him it breaks the laws of metaphysics. Dave Hardenbrook wrote of the Whitbread judges: <> One of the delicious ironies of this tempest in an English teapot is that Jerry Hall, the ex-wife of Mick Jagger, was one of the Whitbread Prize judges. The British literary establishment started to be snooty about her since she has no authorial, editorial, or critical qualifications (not that people need those to become an author, editor, or critic). Then she turned out to be one of the judges who voted for Heaney's BEOWULF, which won by a one-vote margin! For myself, I'm going to reserve judgment on the relative merits of the third HARRY POTTER and the umpteenth BEOWULF until I read both. I did read William Safire's column, which I recall was more about the juvenilization of American culture than about the literary merits of specific books, but I don't remember what he said well enough to argue for or against it. I met Safire last week, but not under circumstances which allowed me to draw him out. He certainly stirred up anger among children's book writers. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:39:37 -0600 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-19-2000 JEREMY: > > I checked my copy of _The Crocheted Cat in Oz_, which is dedicated to and > > copyrighted (1988) in the name of an Elizabeth Ackerman, Pendexter's "first > > grandchild." Looks like you're probably dealing with adolescents at the > > oldest, and I know that I didn't have a telephone listing until I was 19. > > Pen Press is a vanity one; you wouldn't find it listed anywhere. But on > > the plus side, how many kids can afford a lawyer? > >But that's no reason to publish / distribute their work sans approval! I >know how I'd feel if someone distributed copies of my book so that others >could read it without purchasing it. There must be a better way. Note that my main point was that kids are hard to locate. Bless you for your earnestness, Jeremy, but that last sentence was wholly tongue-in-cheek. Atticus * * * "She reads at such a pace," she complained, "and when I asked her *where* she had learnt to read so quickly she replied, 'On the screens at Cinemas.'" My website: http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:59:02 EST Subject: PINK FLOYD/OZ [Ed. note: Could someone here write the definitive reply to this question and I'll put it in the Ozzy Digest FAQ... -- Dave] My Brother has played the PINK FLOYD album 8 times to the movie !!! It has PERFECT SYNCHRONICITY to SPECIFIC OZZY happenings. IT IS THE TRUTH. I seen it the FIRST time WE EVER did this . Glad I could help, Lisa : ) ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:59:10 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-19-2000 In a message dated 3/19/00 5:59:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, OzDigest@mindspring.com writes: << [Ed. note: Could someone here write the definitive reply to this question and I'll put it in the Ozzy Digest FAQ... -- Dave] >> ====================================================================== From: "Gili Bar-Hillel" Cc: Lecomahillbilly@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-19-2000 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:58:31 PST Re: your question about "The Wall" The Pink Floyd Album that is supposed to synchronise with the movie "The Wizard of Oz" is not "The Wall", but "Dark Side of the Moon" - notice that the logo for "Dark Side of the Moon" has a rainbow in it, another cute coincidence. Start playing the album the third time the lion roars on the video of the movie. The coincidences are cute, and numerous, but they are no more than coincidences. Pink Floyd have denied outright that the album was planned this way. It's just something about the natural pace of these two that works well together, so that it looks like characters are dancing to the music most of the time, and once in a while something really surprising happens, like hearing a heart beat on the track just as Dorothy puts her ear to the Tin Woodsman's chest. There are numerous webpages that describe the different things to watch out for, there should be a list of links on Eric Gjovaag's Oz FAQ at www.eskimo.com/~tiktok I have done this with friends, and while it was fun, it was not a mystical experience. The movie is much longer than the album, so when the cd ended we hit play again and the coincidences kept coming. The second time the cd ended we stuck in a Peter Gabriel cd ("live in concert") and the coincidences STILL kept coming: lines that seemed to be describing what happened on the screen, sound effects that coincided nicely, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few albums that would play nicely with the movie in this way. Especially if you add a couple of beers into the mixture. Enjoy! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:58:28 -0500 From: "Lisa M. Mastroberte" Subject: Pink Floyd in Oz >Is it true that the Pink Floyd album, "The Wall" can be synched to The >Wizard >of Oz Movie? No, but you're close. It's Pink Floyd's album, "Dark Side of the Moon." Legend has it that if you start the CD the third time Leo (MGM trademark lion) roars, some strange occurances happen. And sure enough, they do. Sometimes it seems as if the munchkin's are lip-syncing, and other times a song will start at an *exact* point in the movie, such as when it flips from b&w to Technicolor. Now, my question is, *how* did someone discover this, anyway? I'll be posting another post soon ... I need to run some errands. --Lisa -- "Every man is the painter and sculptor of his own life." - S. John Chrysostom (+407) http://luna.faithweb.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:52:15 -0500 From: "Lisa M. Mastroberte" Subject: Return to Oz, Harry Potter, and other ozzy matters. I watched _Return to Oz_ last night on the Disney Channel, (see, our petition paid off! ;)) and did notice several more Oz characters in the coronation scene. On the plus side of seeing it on the Disney channel, they had some extra footage that I didn't have in my copy (taped off TV about ten years ago), including several more camera angles of Mombi's Hall of Heads. Quite creepy. And due to all the good things I've heard on the digest in regards to Harry Potter, I went out and read Book One. The writing and plot is excellent. Hmm, now I have to read book two ... and three .... In starting a new thread, (maybe) I received my forward issue of the Oz collector. The CD "Before the Rainbow" makes its premiere. Comments, anyone? --Lisa -- "Every man is the painter and sculptor of his own life." - S. John Chrysostom (+407) http://luna.faithweb.com ====================================================================== From: Ideazinc@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:35:56 EST Subject: (no subject) My new book Northern Oz - None of Mr.Baum's characters appear in this book. I'm just going about getting a publisher now. Hope to have it in book stores soon. [Unable to display image] Vincent J Kelly e-mail ideazinc@aol.com (or) NorthernOz@aol.com Attachment Converted: "K:\maincopy.jpg" ====================================================================== From: "Kenneth R. Shepherd" Subject: Ozzy things Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:06:51 -0500 Dave, I received 2 copies of the March17-19 Digest dated about half an hour apart. Was there a glitch in the program? And, since the discussion of _Hungry Tiger_ has begun... ?Posted: ******WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR "HUNGRY TIGER" AHEAD******** Day 1 - Betsy's birthday - hide-and-seek game begins at dusk - Ippty leaves to fetch the Hungry Tiger "as it was growing dark" - they return to Rash at night & HT spends night in palace apartment - Ippty & Irasha plot until "long after midnight" Day 2 - Hungry Tiger locked in jail yard in morning - meets singer "toward evening" & hides him at moonrise - night in jail yard Day 3 - Betsy meets Carter Green before breakfast - they arrive in Rash in AM and meet Tiger - barber thrown to Tiger in afternoon - Reddy thrown to Tiger "as the first stars twinkled out" - they escape through tunnel - night in fields of down - Ozma kidnaped by Atmos Fere after breakfast Day 4 - Betsy's party has breakfast in Down Town - visit Gnome King's cavern for lunch - exit via Fire Fall - Tiger taken by Giants - night by Immense City's walls Day 5 - Reddy enters Immense City after breakfast - rescues Hungry Tiger at night - they leave Immense City at midnight ("just as the clock tolled twelve") - Ozma punctures Atmos with a pin - they are rescued by Rusty Ore, caught in storm Day 6 - Two parties meet in AM - conquest of Rash - return to Oz Note: There's a night missing in Ozma's travels with Atmos Fere. She spends two days in the air with him (the day Betsy meets Carter and the day she visits Down Town and Kaliko) and sticks Atmos with a pin on the third day. There's no mention in the text that she spends a night either with Rusty Ore or with Atmos on the ground, but in order to make her rendezvous with Betsy's party come out right, I assume that the storm lasted all night. ****************END SPOILERS***************** Best to all, Ken Shepherd kshepherd@msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:31:56 -0500 From: "John W. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-19-2000 David Godwin wrote: > And thanks for the tips on objective studies of witchcraft. Speaking of > Shakespeare, by the way, isn't it in one of the Henry plays where he depicts > Joan of Arc as a witch in league with hellish powers? I suppose that was the > official English version before modern times. Henry VI, Part 1. Hey, she _must_ have been a witch; she defeated English armies, and everybody knows one Englishman is worth a dozen dirty Froggies in the first place. Not to mention that she was a _girl_.... -- -John W. Kennedy -rri0189@ibm.net Compact is becoming contract Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams ====================================================================== From: Betsynj835@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:57:02 EST Subject: ozquestion?? Do you know when the Wizard of Oz first appeared on network television?? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:00:19 -0800 Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-19-2000 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: darth-bane@juno.com <> So what's everyone's take on Scarecrow having a wife? It's kind of strange. He and Scraps hardly ever seem to be together or in any way behave as if they're married. Did the effects of the Love Magnet simply wear off leaving them wondering what they did? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:20:49 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-19-2000 Robin: > I might be able to accept someone's creating a > wife for Tik-Tok, if the premise for such a creation were strong enough. > On the other hand, why would he want or need one? He does what > he's wound up to do, but there's never much indication of sentiment > in Tik-Tok. But I think you have just stated a solution in the question itself. Tik-Tok DOES need someone to keep him wound up. How perfect it would be if he had a mechanical spouse. They could alway make sure to wind each other (and being machines, would never forget to do so, as long as their thinking works were wound, something that Dorothy seems to forget, left to her own devices...) Fearless Leader: > >With all the buzz about HP, I thought it might be appropriate to share a > >recent installment of Matt Groening's infamous _Life in Hell_ comic strip > >you all might find amusing. > > Anyone who wants to see it, please E-mail me. Send me one, Dave. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== From: pauls@wauknet.com (Paul Smith) Subject: WOZ Movie questions (Good ones!) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:30:33 -0600 Ok I have a few questions that I need you experts to answer! =) 1. In the IMDB for WOZ it says under Alternative Versions: "All prints shown/made from 1956 to 1988 have the Kansas scenes in black and white, not the original sepia tones. The 1989 50th anniversary video cassette restores the sepia color of the Kansas scenes. All theatrical re-releases, TV airings, and video releases since then has the scenes in the sepia tones." Can somone explain this to me in a bit more detail (I.E.. Why the movie's non-color scenes were shown in black/white instead of the apparently proper brown/white for this period?) Also, what are Sepia tones? Sorry to be so stupid about this- I'm sure I'm missing some big point here... 2. Along those lines, are there any webpages that deal with how WOZ was re-stored (or are any of the people who worked on doing that online?) 3. Is there anybody with the WOZ Laserdisc (the one that has the audio commentary) that could do me a favor of possibly making a tape-dub of the movie with the commentary audio option on? I fear this might be frowned upon, but.. erm.. just e-mail me pauls@wauknet.com if you could assist :) 4. I've herd that there exists a "widescreen" version of WOZ. Now.. since in 1939 Widescreen movies didn't exist (or at the very least were a rarity) can somone who's seen this version explain the aspect ratio, and what had to be cropped from the top/bottom for this version? Any chance I could get a copy (I'm assuming it was at sometime sold this way on video tape)? 5. Anyone care to recomend any books that have to do with the movie (Fact books, Picture books, etc, etc)? 6. Could somone explain how Judy Garland became a "gay icon" of sorts (Yes.. i've just herd about the whole "Friend of Dorthy" thing.. I'm 19, that's my excuse) Thanks, everyone! :o) -Paul A.A #1353- http://www.infidels.org http://www.ffrf.org Member EAC- Food and Beverages Division Get in touch with classmates from your old High School at http://www.highschoolalumni.com/ Register now for free. "Hey, sometimes a little brain damage can help!" -George Carlin. ====================================================================== From: "Jennifer Keenan" Subject: Oz Books for auction (Forwarded message to Ozzy Digest) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:12:07 -0800 Hi Dave - I saw this on ebay today and thought of you. Of course, you probably have all these books already, but I figured I'd mention it anyway. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=286416832 Happy Monday! Jennifer K. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Mar 00 11:58:04 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Thanks, Ken, for the _Hungry Tiger_ chronology. I'm afraid my brain went into neutral yesterday and I accidentally deleted the "Life in Hell" strip, so you'll have to get it from Atticus. -- Dave ======================================================================