] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JANUARY 31 - FEBRUARY 3, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 03:50:34 EST Subject: ENTERING OZ : CC: ozmonthly@onelist.com, tiktoktalklist@eskimo.com quote of the week : " I'm melting, I'm melting ! I never thought a good little like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness ! I'm going, I'm going OOOOOOhhhhhh ! " ~ WICKED WITCH OF THE WEST TID BITS : AUTHOR L. Frank Baum wrote under many other pseudonyms like Laura Bancroft and Edith Van Dyne Judy Garland was 17 when she portrayed Dorothy and received a miniature award for her portrayal of DOROTHY. Bert Lahr's costume was 90 lbs. Tin Woodman's costume was made of Paper MAche Scarecrows make up made Ray Bolger's face so RAW that at the end of the day his face would BLEED MONTHS after Wizard of OZ was completed Margret Hamilton STILL had TINTS on GREEN MAKE UP ON HER FACE ! Liza Minelli Portrayed the voice of DOROTHY in the animated sequel JOURNEY TO OZ, MARGERT HAMILTON PLAYED AUNT EM. BUDDY EBSON originally was the TIN WOODMAN GALE SONDERGAARD was up for the role of Wicked Witch Shirley Temple was thought of for the role of DOROTHY the ORIGINAL SCRIPT was to include a LOVE story about a dozen or so CHILDREN were used for MUNCHKINS in background scenes a 1980's movie called UNDER THE RAINBOW was about the arrival of the SINGER MIDGETS (MUNCHKINS) and the havoc that they SUPPOSEDLY caused. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:13:06 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things Magic-Workers: In 'Magical Mimics of Oz', Jack Snow implies that some of the Ozites had studied witchcraft and learned other arts of magic, and as a result, created alot of trouble in Oz and nearly prevented Princess Ozma from ascending the throne. This seems to imply that Mombi and the other three witches were just ordinary women who studied/practised witchcraft, and eventually became wicked witches. Another example is Ugu the Shoemaker Wizard. I know that NO ONE is BORN evil, but in this case, I have to believe that witches ARE wicked by birth, due to their ancestors. It must be in the genes or something. LOL! I think the same goes for Nomes, Mimics, Growlywogs, Whimises, Erbs e.t.c., e.t.c, e.t.c. However, villains like Coo-ee-oh, Mrs.Yoop e.t.c seem to have been simply misguided. (In 'Ice King of Oz', Glinda tells Dorothy : "We do not know whether the Ice King really IS evil, or just misguided.) As for the Witches, my guess is that their OLDEST ancestors were just plain ordinary old women who studied witchcraft and BECAME witches, yet their daughters, grand-daughters, great-granddaughters and so on were witches by birth/were obliged to learn witchcraft in order to continue the generation of 'witches'. Tip tells everyone in 'Land' that Mombi never went so chool, and so she knows nothing about algebra. Perhaps witches are only meant to study witchcraft. I also think that the VERY first witches became allergic to water due to spending too much time with potions and chemicals, yet the other generations of witches were allergic to water by birth. Another 'genes' case, I bet.....LOL! ~Gehan~ *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Mother of Christ, Mother of Christ What shall I ask of thee? I do not sigh for the wealth of earth For the joys that fade and flee, but, Mother of the Christ, Mother of Christ, This do I long to see: The bliss untold which thine arms enfold The treasure upon thy knee Mother of Christ, Mother of Christ, I toss on a stormy sea Oh life thy child as a beacon light To the port where I fain would be, and, Mother of Christ, Mother of Christ, This do I ask of thee: When the voyage is o'er, Oh stand of the shore And show him at last to me -- 'Mother of Christ' *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:16:16 -0500 From: "John W. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-30-2000 Hmmm.... As to whether there is logic in magic, it seems to me that some people need to become acquainted with "The Compleat Enchanter" (one of the several editions of which includes an Oz episode, in fact); and with Randall Garret's wonderful stories of Lord Darcy, the greatest detective of the 1960's Anglo-French Empire, and his partner, Master Sean O'Lochlain, the world's greatest forensic sorceror. J. L. Bell wrote: > Some even more random comments: Thompson says the Hoopers live in a > "park," presumably the same sort that children would roll hoops in [69]. A neat interpretation, but A) were children rolling hoops this late? and B) just how far had "park" gone in its transition from "plot of land neither wild nor farmed nor substantially built upon" to "public recreation area"? (Three guesses what movie Eleanor and I saw lately.) Ruth Berman wrote: > It occurs to me now that the Oz Cream is in a big container > inside a bigger, ice-filled container -- evidently they make it themselves > on the spot out of fresh cream. (Considering that home-freezers or > refrigerators with freezing compartments weren't, I think, generally > available at the time, the use of home ice-cream makers was probably > more familiar to readers then than it is now.) I grew up with many of my mother's and cousins' old Bobbsey's, etc.; I'd say that's right. Tyler Jones wrote: > Gehan wrote: > > But anyway, my own MOPPET is that all wicked witches who > > live in the same continent of imagination where Oz is > > located, are all allergic to water by birth. > That implies that people are "assigned" a morality of good > or evil at birth, and I'm a little uncomfortable with that. Well, it's kinda yer basic Calvinism. Of course, Baum wasn't a Christian, but seeing that 99% of today's society seems to be Calvinist without being Christian, I'm not sure there's any contradiction there. (I wish, I wish, I WISH I knew what he meant by saying that his main reason for rejecting Christianity was "the Devil"; to someone with a sound grounding in theology, that's like saying that ones main reason for opposing the Automobile is that they come with cigarette lighters.) -- -John W. Kennedy -rri0189@ibm.net Compact is becoming contract Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams ====================================================================== From: "Gili Bar-Hillel" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:55:24 PST Steve Teller wrote: >Actually, March Laumer did write a short story about the Woozy's beginning that appeared in an early issue of OZIANA and was reprinted in March's book IN OTHER LANDS THAN OZ. It was called, I believe, "The Beginning of the Woozy." The Woozy was created by as fairy to provide an answer to a riddle. We learn that the Woozy's penchant for eating honeybees is inherent, and that it is not harmful to the bees. The book also includes the story "The Woozy's Sticky End." My own MoPPet about the Woozy's origin became "The Woozy's Tail", which was published in Oziana (of 1992?). It explains the bees, the sparks, why "Krizzle Kroo" makes him mad and how the three hairs grew on his tail. The Woozy may possibly be my favorite Oz character, precisely because he's so inexplicable. There's something existential about him. He's just there because he's there. I guess I spoiled that by writing my story, but then again, it's just a theory... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:29:21 -0800 Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-30-2000 <> Hi all, I'm brand new to this digest and way out of league with many of you and the discussions presented, having only read a relatively small number of the books (but that is soon changing) in comparison to most of you. I've been over in Star Wars land having actually very similar discussions in a very similar type group regarding continuity issues, timelines, fixing errors, etc. In that universe, I have my own timeline and have read every published book, comic, cartoon, etc. In this one, I'm very slowly getting up to speed and attempting to use the HACC (both the old version and new) to figure out what goes where and what to buy next. So please forgive any ignorance on my part or repeat of topics you may have already discussed. I've heard a lot about March Laumer and am trying to sort out the true from the false. I understand his books are more adult in tone, but am fine with that provided they're not pornographic or anything... I'm assuming they're not. My only concern is, can they be made to fit in with the main Oz universe or are they way out there? Are there glaring contradictions or simply things that can be rectified with a little imagination on my part? Also, why can't I find these anywhere?! I'm also curious what most of you think of the Oz and Dark Oz comic book series by Arrow and Calibre press (not the violent and ridiculous Oz Squad)? They're probably considered apocryphal by most Oz fans. But they're well written at least and they got my interest piqued in Oz, starting me on this mad quest to find and read all of the books that can be made to fit into established canon (what are we up to now, 150+ ?). -Joe Bongiorno ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:29:18 -0600 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-06 thru 12-2000 I've been busy and lazy lately, so I'm almost a month behind on responding to Digests. Ah, well, I imagine not a few of you have enjoyed the respite. But here I am again. I'll try not to be too redundant on things others have already said. I'm not going to try to catch up completely with this posting; I've taken it through the 1/12 Digest and will continue tomorrow with hopes of getting through 1/30. 1/6: Nathan: >Recently, I was thinking about the Wizard's name. While it's possible that >Baum just came up with random names to fit the desired initials, at least >three of the names (Zoroaster, Isaac, and Emmanuel) have religious >significance. "Phadrig" is also a variant (and I think in fact the Gaelic spelling, though I'm not sure) of "Patrick," which also has a religious significance (at least as much as "Isaac"). There's also a St. Ambrose, which might be associated with "Ambroise," though I'm not sure if the latter is a variant on the former. Don't know any religious significance to "Oscar," "Norman," or "Henckel," though. I'm not even sure what political significance they'd have, though the Wizard says that his father gave him all those names because he was a politician. Tyler: >Age, experience and wisdom do not always go together, however. The president >of the company I work for is younger than several of the people there, but he >is the best programmer I have ever seen. Programming, like most branches of math and science, is a talent where people usually peak at a fairly young age. Statecraft, on the other hand, is much more dependent on accumulated experience, and its practitioners usually continue to become better at it up into their 60s at least. I can readily believe that Glinda might have been a more powerful sorceress a few centuries back, but I doubt if she was as wise about affairs of state. >Baum's vision of Oz has been discussed at great length. To him, Oz was >probably a Utopia, without the need for many of the things which drive a >capitalist democracy. People are content. There is no need to do anything >else. Ozma does have absolute power, but she never makes mistakes, so her >rule is more efficient. Baum in fact says in EC, and possibly elsewhere, that he didn't suppose that the Ozian political system would work elsewhere but that it seemed to make the Ozites happy. >_Number of the Beast_ is a novella written by Robert A. Heinlein. Actually it's quite a long novel. Nathan again: >Are there any shops that would definitely be considered stores >within the Oz series? When Dorothy enters the EC in _Wizard_ she sees "many shops" on her way to the palace, but that was before Ozma's accession and therefore might not be relevant. Doug: > >Are the Oz Books your favourite Book Series? > >Hmm. No..I like the Lord of the Rings, if you consider that a series I don't consider Lord of the Rings a series; it's one long novel in three volumes. Thinking about it, I'm not sure I'd consider either Harry Potter or Cooper's Dark Is Rising books as series, either; both seem to have a single story arc, though there's more resolution at the end of each book than there is at the end of a volume of LoTR. To me a "series" is something like the Oz books, or Nancy Drew or the Hardy Boys or Nero Wolfe, where there's a constant setting and continuing cast of characters but each story is complete in itself and there's no overriding Problem that starts in the first book and isn't resolved until the last. Perhaps the distinction I make (which is mine, and I don't pretend that it's universally shared) is that a series is open-ended, whereas a closed-ended set of books, even if it's eight or ten books long, isn't a series but a trilogy or pentalogy or dodecology or whatever. (LoTR, however, as I said isn't even a trilogy but a 3-volume novel.) Bob C.: > I didn't mean that we meet Patchwork Girl and Glass Cat in "Road", but that >these were also two of my favorite Oz books. I should have been more >specific. Ah, I see. Well, I'm gratified that _Glass Cat_ is one of your favorite Oz books, of course. Gehan: >But, it'd also eb wiered to have a jungle >where ONLY lions live, so they probably added tigers and bears, since Tinman >says there are MOSTLY lions, tigers and bears. It's weirder to have a jungle (or forest, really) where lions and tigers and bears all live, since lions aren't normally found in jungles (Tarzan books to the contrary notwithstanding) and also aren't found wild any more in Asia, whereas tigers aren't found in Africa. I don't think bears are found in Africa either, but I'm less sure about that. I don't think the habitats of lions and tigers ever overlapped, at least within historic times, but again I'm less sure about that. Ken S.: Thanks again for the chronology. Scott H.: >I thought there was an implication that they got meat that grows on trees, >like the lunch pail trees, only different. Or perhaps that's unique to >Ooogaboo. Humans may, but there's a clear implication that the Cowardly Lion, for instance, hunts down other animals for food in _Wizard_ (though it's not completely explicit), and certainly the Kalidahs seem to be intending to eat Dorothy in that book and Trot and Cap'n Bill in _Magic_. John K.: After your quote of "If Love Wear All," if I'd responded to the 1/6 Digest in a more timely manner I'd probably have quoted Coward's "World Weary" back at you, since it happened to be going around in my head at that time. (I gave a "Noel and Gertie" CD to my wife for Christmas and we'd recently played it.) Aren't you glad I waited? Dave: >Who started the thing about your having to wish every year on your birthday >not to age? I don't think this is in the FF; the only published reference to it that I recall was in Robert Pattrick's "Unexplored Territory in Oz," where he uses it as a justification for why the Wizard aged (because he didn't know he could wish not to). Pompadore does say he's "never going to be eighteen again," but that seems to me more to imply that one has to wish to age on one's birthday rather than to wish not to. Baum implies in several places that Dorothy doesn't age simply by virtue of being in Oz, without having to do anything to prevent it. >I may also start rejecting posts that echo THE ENTIRE DIGEST OF THE >PREVIOUS DAY! Do some people do that? And you have to edit out all the irrelevant stuff? I'd reject them too; I echo quite a bit to give my comments context, but I regard it as my place and not yours to do the editing. 1/9: John K.: >David Hulan wrote: > > Five > > hundred years of ruling the Quadling Country and being adviser to the kings > > of Oz would almost certainly result in more wisdom and experience relevant > > to ruling than five thousand years of dancing in circles in a forest, which > > might be all Ozma had done. >Surely this depends on the question of whether fairies, like angels, >apprehend by intuition. Well, yes, but my point was that one can't infer necessarily that if Ozma is older than Glinda, she is therefore wiser and more experienced. She may or may not be; there's insufficient data to know for sure. We don't know whether fairies (or, for that matter, angels) apprehend by intuition or not. Nathan: >Is there any reason why her [Ozma's] father couldn't be part-fairy? That >would >certainly explain why the Blankenburg water didn't work on him, since, >according to the Wizard in _Lost Princess_, fairies can't be made invisible >against their will. No, but Baum says that Ozma was descended from a long line of fairy queens; this implies that her mother was at least part fairy, whatever her father's status. (Although I suppose the implication isn't absolute; one might say Prince Charles is descended from a long line of kings, even though his father wasn't one of them.) J.L.: >Dorothy has to take leave of her friends in >Perhaps City, make her way down "the steep mountain path" [127--also >remember Percy's difficult departure in GRAMPA], find the Wish Way, go to >Hollywood, bring Humpy to life, bring him back to Oz, escape the >Backwoodsmen, meet the Scooters, and find Kabumpo, all before 9:00 AM. I >think the only way Dorothy could do those impossible things before Ozma's >breakfast is if time itself ran backwards. But that may be what happens in >the Back Woods. And of course, when she says "I wish I were back!" this may have returned her to the time she left Oz, if not the place, and if time also rewound a bit more in the Back Woods it might have been more like 8 AM when she encountered the Scooters (regardless of what time they thought it was). >wouldn't she [Ozma] >remember Mombi more clearly as the nasty guardian who'd reared her? >Nevertheless, when Ozma sees Mombi, she shows no especial reaction [253], Possibly Mombi's appearance had changed enough between the end of _Land_ and _Lost King_ that Ozma didn't recognize her immediately? > And one chronometer mystery: Humpy has "a dollar watch" [249]. Why >would a studio equip a dummy with a watch, especially when he was supposed >to be falling for a medieval king? Shades of SPARTACUS! Humpy apparently was used as a dummy in many different movies; maybe the watch was left over from one where he was falling for a character in a gangster movie or some such, and whoever re-dressed him didn't bother to remove it. Gehan: >And there WERE motion pictures as early as that [1908], though they >weren't AS developed.... I don't think they were centered in Hollywood that early, though. I could be wrong; others on the Digest are much more knowledgeable about movies than I. But I know the movie industry in the US was centered around New York City in its early days; I don't think it moved to Hollywood until the 1910s, at least for the majority of pictures. I think Dorothy very likely changed her attitude about killing evil characters between _Wizard_ and _Ozma_; she certainly didn't hesitate to use eggs against the Nomes in the latter book, although perhaps she didn't know they were deadly. As for Ozma, Mombi is really the only character she seems to have destroyed on her own initiative; Glegg is apparently destroyed, but that was because the answer box said to make him drink Triple Trick Tea. Nobody knew what that would do to him; for all Ozma knew it might just make him a Nice Person. Other wicked characters are exiled or turned into something harmless, but not destroyed. 1/12: David G.: I'd like copies of the JPG files of _Sky Island_ artwork, at your convenience. Dick R.: Someone wanted $70 for a Del Rey PB of _Purple Prince?!?!? I mean, PP is one of the harder-to-find Oz books, but I'd expect to pay something like that for a 1950s hardcover, not for a PB! J.L.: >Why couldn't Pastoria have ruled Oz in his kind, absent, and increasingly >weak way for centuries? No reason except that Ozma says that her grandfather was king of Oz when the wicked witches took over, which to me seems to imply that Pastoria couldn't have ever really ruled Oz, though he might have been the titular monarch. >some things (babies, trees, nuts) have little or no >memory, so transforming someone into one of those might accomplish the >amnesia without requiring a separate spell. Interesting speculation. The rule seems to be that when a transformation is fully reversed, the memories of the original state return (but the memories from the transformed state remain.) However, a transformed being can be brought to life without recovering memories (e.g., Peg Amy), and most likely only reversing one stage of a multi-step transformation doesn't restore the memories from before an earlier stage. Thus when Mombi transforms Ozma into the baby Tip, he retains no memories of having been Ozma. But when that transformation is broken and Tip becomes Ozma again, she remembers her early life as a baby and perhaps toddler in Oz, but not her origins in Lurline's band (though she eventually does learn about those as well, whether she really remembers them or not). > I have a related question: Is Mombi really >a witch at this point? And would water have any effect on her? She obviously thought it would; I think she says something specific to the point before she turns the inland sea to gelatin. Nathan: I think I mentioned at the time that on a trip to Belgium a few years ago I passed through a city called Blankeburg. Its inhabitants all seemed to be quite visible, though. (But of course, if they weren't I wouldn't have known - except that the day was quite chilly, so I'd have expected to see some empty suits of clothes walking around...) I don't recall Dorothy eating fish either before or after _Lost King_, but I haven't done any kind of detailed analysis of what she eats. (That's a pretty good Research Table project, though. Speaking of which, Andrea Yussman is having to give up being coordinator of the Oz Research Group and Story Circle, and I've volunteered to take it over unless someone else really wants to. So any of you with research or stories should send them to me now. Next mailing out in April sometime, assuming there's anything to mail.) Gehan: Favorite Oz King: King Ato, if you count kings outside Oz who appear in Oz books. Ree Alla Bad, King of Seebania, confining it to kings who live in Oz. Rinkitink, Randy, and the Lavender Bear as strong runners-up Favorite Oz Queen: Planetty, who's now Queen of Regalia, even though she was just a princess through most of the book where she appeared. Assuming we don't count Ozma or Glinda, no close runners-up. Favorite Oz Prince: Pompa, I guess. No really outstanding candidates here; Ojo and Philador are also pretty good. (I'm counting Randy as a king, not a prince, since that's his current status. Counting him as a prince, he's #1.) Favorite Oz Princess: Dorothy, hands down. Ozma, Trot, Marygolden, and Gureeda are all excellent characters, probably better than any of the kings, queens, or princes, but Dorothy is the best character in the entire series by a fairly sizable margin. Thompson does get a bit carried away with her superlatives, but then so did Baum. Give a bit of poetic license to the folks. Since most of Thompson's "kingdoms" seem to be less than a square mile - sometimes much less - there's plenty of room for lots of them even in a Belgium-size Oz. My calculation that Oz is the size of Belgium is based on a fairly rigorous calculation: in _Wishing Horse_ Thompson gives the sizes of all of the provinces of Skampavia, which allows us to calculate the area of Skampavia. Then Penny Pinny says that Oz is fifty times the size of Skampavia. While this shouldn't be taken as exact, it probably means that Oz is closer to 50X than 40X or 60X the size of Skampavia. And that would give us an area of about 11,000 square miles, give or take about 1,000. This also works quite well for the times of most journeys, though there are exceptions that require some fudging. (In _Road_, for instance, a very young child (Button-Bright) apparently walks from near the corner of the Winkie Country to the EC in about a day and a half, though this should be something like 75 miles minimum. I think there must have been a few nights on the road along the way that just didn't get mentioned.) Anyhow, Belgium isn't all that small (nor is Sri Lanka) if you're restricted to traveling on foot. I wouldn't care to try to get from, say, Oostende to Brussel on foot in less than 3-4 days, even in my youth when I had more energy and my feet didn't pain me greatly after being on them for an hour or so. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:25:38 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: The Wonderful Land of Oz Here is a picture of Jack Pumpkinhead from the rare 1969 film: http://www.stomptokyo.com/badmoviereport/drivein3.jpg ===================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Militaries are inherently the most corrupt organizations in the world, simply because their mission is to kill people and break things." ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:47:38 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-30-2000 In a message dated 1/30/00 7:33:13 PM Central Standard Time, OzDigest@mindspring.com writes: I said:<< Actually, I can't think, offhand, of any time that Glinda uses her magic other than directly in Ozma's service.>> John responded: <> The first two examples cited were still done for Ozma's sake. The last,however, is a different kind of thing entirely, and I haven't before considered it. Glinda becomes involved because the Scarecrow asks what's new, and she checks her Great Book. There, they discover the plight of Trot and Cap'n Bill and Button Bright. They remember the boy. Glinda says, rather thoughtfully, "I should like to help them." The Scarecrow supports that notion. Once she determines to help the mortals, she does so with decisiveness, giving the Scarecrow enough magic to take away Blinkie's magic powers. But it's Ozma who made the law against unauthorized magic. And we get the feeling that it's the Scarecrow, not Glinda, who determines who should be the next ruler of Jinxland. Or am I misremembering that part? I really think that if the Scarecrow hadn't been with Glinda when she read about the Jinxland situation, she might not have taken action...at least not more than that of efficiently and magically rescuing the Americans. As you say, John, she *is* Glinda the *Good*! I think I'll check _Glinda of Oz_ to see if Glinda was tepid in her desire to help the poor Skeezers. As I recall, she didn't at all encourage Ozma to get involved. Witches: Yes, Mombi fears being no more than an old woman when she loses her magic, but Thompson repeatedly and consistently refers to her as a witch in _Lost King_. But I don't know any more than y'all do whether you must be born to Oz witchiness or whether it's a learned craft. Maybe both? As in not mutually exclusive? I don't know what to make of the Scarecrow's declaration to Blinkie in _Lost King_ about her no longer being a witch. Are we to believe that the Scarecrow is an authority in such matters? Hoopers in a park: In _Grampa_, the Playfellows are also enclosed in a park. Perhaps Thompson is continuing the Baum concept of enclosing undesirables...kinda like Rigamarole.... Actually, I think there's a strong Oz tradition of isolated and enclosed communities. When one enters these communities, there's usually a strong desire for a fast exit. It'd be rather convenient if all grabby or be-like-us-or-else communities in the U.S. were walled off, too. No boys allowed in Catty Corners: I'm not sure that this reinforces the feminine mystique of felines as much as it refers to the fact that boys are stereotypically too rough to play with cats. Ruth: I believe the _Boy's Life_ Neill piece is from only one issue. Ask John VanCamp about it the next time you see him (hopefully this July?). I think he may have the issue...and I believe it is from a single issue. Lisa: I hated the movie when I first saw it. It wasn't *my* Oz. Only as an adult was I able to enjoy it as a fabulous piece of Hollywood craft. It really is fabulous, isn't it. It brings out Baum's themes very clearly, so it's still very much Oz for me. My heart skipped a beat or two when I saw the repro Munchkinland set at DisneyWorld. The boat stopped for a couple of minutes there, and I got to take a really good look. Wow! Gili: You might learn more about the book by checking the author. Try a search for him either or the web and/or on eBay. The name Belinda: I'm sure glad some of you caught that reference! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:32:47 -0500 From: "Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman" Subject: New fanfic: "Daria in Oz" Greetings. I am pleased to announce that I have just posted a new fanfic, a crossover between Oz and _Daria_ (probably the only thing good that's ever been shown on MTV). Hopefully I've included enough background on _Daria_ in it to make it sufficiently comprehensible to Oz-only fans that you don't have to ask me "Who the Hell is this Sandi Griffin character?" (Though I could be wrong...) I have endeavored to break away from stereotypical Oz plots. You will therefore not find any original episodes, nor will Ozma come in at the end and fix everything, and the only character from _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ who will make an appearance will be Omby Amby, whose role will be fairly minor. You can find "Daria in Oz" at: http://www.musc.edu/~adelmaas/Dariana/Daria_in_Oz.html Enjoy. Aaron -- Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman E-mail: adelmaas@musc.edu AIM: Hiergargo Web site: http://www.musc.edu/~adelmaas/ ====================================================================== From: DNightshade1@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:29:13 EST Subject: Rare Wizard Of Oz soundtrack at Ebay To see click here: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=247859010 ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 22:40:07 -0600 Subject: Oz Kids From: "David Godwin" I finally got around to watching an episode of the Oz Kids cartoon - namely "The Magic Belt and the Nome Prince" - and I was pleasantly surprised. Granted, the basic premise is about as un-canonical and heretical as you can get, but it is nevertheless entertaining. Aside from that one basic, drastic heresy - that the Oz characters we know have all grown up (if not grown up already), married, and had children (including the Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, and Jack Pumpkinhead; don't ask me how) - this cartoon is a lot closer to the Baum books than the Garland movie, the Disney movie, or anything else I've seen with the possible exception of the Baum silents. It is very "Ozzy" as well. The thing I liked best about it was that it uses incidents from the Baum books that we never get (or got) to see otherwise in either live film or cartoon, such as the Hammerheads, the Giant with the Hammer, and the kalidahs. I recommend it. - David G. ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 3 - 8, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:26:53 EST Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-03-2000 Because of THIS YEAR, 2000. WOZ is OFFICIALLY 100 years old. I am correct, yes ? Well, Is there any PLANS for anything NEW to come out of an OZZY VAULT for any NEW or OLD OZ THINGS ? like MOVIES, CDS, BOOKS..... I already know about the WIZARDRY OF OZ. I wrote William Stillman an EMAIL. Just curious, THANKS : ) LISA SERAMARY@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:27:55 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: The Wonderful Land of Oz has arrived (fwd) Marc and I got this directly from Jeffrey C. Hogue, the copyright holder. It has not been officially issued on video. Scott ======================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Militaries are inherently the most corrupt organizations in the world, simply because their mission is to kill people and break things." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 04:21:19 GMT From: "m. berezin" Subject: The Wonderful Land of Oz has arrived Dear Scott: I finally got the tape today. I came home late, so I've decided to wait before watching the whole film. The complete credits, for the first time are (in the order presented): Channy Mahon (Tip), Al Joseph (Tin-Woodman), George Wadsworth (The Pumpkinhead), Mike Thomas (The Scarecrow), Gil Fields (The Wogglebug), Zisca (Mombi), Caroline Berner (General Jinjur), Hilary Lee Gaess (Glinda the Good), Joy Webb (Ozma) with General Jinjur's Rebellious Army. Ray Menard (Set Designer), Barry Mahon (Director of Photography), David Lang (Camera Operator), Larry Fisher (Sound Recordist), Clelle Mahon (Script), Mike Thomas & Tim Brumberger (Makeup), Penni Praigg (Wardrobe), Steven R. Cuiffo (Editing), George Linsenmann (Music), Ralph Falco (Lyrics), Gene Ventresca (Arrangements), Producer, Writer & Director (Barry Mahon) from the book by L. Frank Baum. Hogue has also placed a "Jeffrey C. Hogue presents" line before the credits actually begin. George Wadsworth also appeared in Mahon's JACK AND THE BEANSTALK. (1970). I watched the film until Mombi finished singing "the Powder of Life". Apart from the very scaled down stage-like set the picture's biggest problem thus far is Channy Mahon's awful Tip. The tape was mailed out on Jan.31 so you should get it soon -- probably Feb.3. Marc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: Ozisus@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:55:52 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest David G -- With an Oz enthusiast like Willard Carroll behind the Oz Kids tapes, it's pretty safe to have Ozzy expectations of them! Track down the new 100 Years of Oz book (author: John Fricke) to get a marvelous look at Willard's fantastic collection. And a couple of the tapes in the series offer some "making of" footage. Willard's Oz room and a video camera make a great combination. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 13:07:07 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: new baby I've got one. Male (#4), yesterday 12:13(PM), 8 lbs. 2 oz., 20 3/4", name to be announced at brit next Thrusday at noon. (All invited) Tilegram to follow probably after this weekend....kinda busy. catching up on e-mail if nothing else... --Mike T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 17:32:44 -0600 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-15 thru 24-2000 Back to trying to catch up... 1/15: Robin: It's apparent in _Wishing Horse_ (and _Cowardly Lion_) that Dorothy thinks all witches are vulnerable to water. That doesn't necessarily make it so, though; Dorothy isn't a student of magic and may be theorizing ahead of her data. Certainly Mombi's revenant gets thoroughly soaked in _Lucky Bucky_ and comes to no permanent harm, though it might be argued that she's not really a witch then (or that it's one more inconsistency in a Neill book). Also, Coo-ee-oh hits the water in _Glinda_, though it's hard to say whether she was a witch or a swan at that point. But if water would dissolve her, why did the Su-dic use a magic potion rather than plain water? I think we can safely assume that he knows a good deal more about magic than Dorothy does. J.L.: > It seems well within the >realm of possibility that Mombi blocked Glinda's magic from uncovering >Ozma's whereabouts. But Glinda's magic seems to be far more powerful than Mombi's; it's hard to imagine how Mombi could have blocked the Great Book of Records from finding Ozma. Or Pastoria, for that matter. > Note that Lurline, Ozma's >"Fairy Godmother" [121], knew where her father was but never mentioned it. But is there any evidence that Ozma and Lurline ever communicated after Ozma took the throne? I don't recall any. (Well, until the much later events of _Magical Mimics_.) >Such distance between Snip and his ruler makes it >easier to understand why he doesn't yell for help from Mombi, whom he knows >has no magical powers [35]. Anybody else want to join my campaign to abolish the use of the word "whom" except when directly following a preposition? In other contexts my current impression is that it's used incorrectly more often than correctly, even by highly literate persons such as yourself, as in the above sentence. I find sentences like "I don't know who you're talking about" much less grating than "...whom he knows has no magical powers." Since only six words in English (seven if you count "thou," but it's largely obsolete) preserve distinct nominative and objective forms, most English speakers have lost any intuitive feeling for which is "correct." The result is that, like the use of the apostrophe, "proper" use of those cases for the six pronouns that preserve it is more a means of showing off one's education than anything to do with communication. For instance, on the rare occasions I actually hear someone say, "It is I," I'm always expecting it to be followed with, "Digby O'Dell, the Friendly Undertaker." (Of course, most of you aren't old enough to remember that...) Tyler: >The advent of RPT and the all-powerful magic belt overrides that, however. By >that time, the Ozzy powerful could do just about anything that they wanted. I'm not sure that it's RPT that creates the all-powerful magic belt. It seems to me that it's pretty much all-powerful in _Ozma_; the problem seems to be that Ozma and Dorothy don't think of using it most of the time (as when they're sunk in the lake in _Glinda_). And Dorothy seems to have forgotten how to use it in _Lost Princess_ (and its powers seem to be mysteriously diminished in that one book only). >In some TOTCLAF >books, a campaign has begun to have Oz larger than the whole of the United >States. That estimate is, I believe, a little excessive. A lot excessive, if the travel times in the books have any meaning at all. It's easier to argue that Oz is smaller than Belgium than larger, though it's surely larger than Rhode Island. Assuming that its proportions are roughly 3x4, it would have to be only about 30x40 miles; I can't believe that even a very young Dorothy could take five days to travel less than 20 miles. Though this size does probably fit the very short apparent journeys from the desert to the EC in _Ozma_ and _Road_. Still, crowding several hundred kingdoms, even quite small ones, into 1200 square miles presents considerable difficulty. Farmer's Oz is much bigger, but his Oz is very unlike that in other books and has to be considered heretical (and for a number of other reasons as well, of course). 1/19: Gehan: Using my scale and assuming the Haff-Martin maps are proportioned about right, I get the whole of the Ozian continent to be only about the size of Ireland (30-35,000 square miles); Great Britain, at over 84,000 square miles, is far too big to fit any of the travel times in the books. >And BTW, assuming that the GWN Dot met was Locasta, wouldn't she recall that >she came to Oz more than 25 years ago, since 'Giant Horse' and that the Good >Witch she met could NOT have been Tattypoo? And wouldn't Orin realise that >SHE wasn't the GWN who welcomed Dorothy? Very possibly, but neither Dorothy nor the disenchanted Orin is ever a point-of-view character in _Giant Horse_, so we don't know what they're thinking. David G.: I think that in fact human beings are more than 70% water; I remember something more like 90%. But wicked witches seem to be an exception to this, or at least the WWW is. I think we can assume that the WWE is as well, since she turns to dust shortly after the house falls on her and her magic stops holding her together. For other witches this doesn't seem to be the case necessarily, though; Zixi, for instance, doesn't seem to have any fear of water, nor do Glinda or Coo-ee-oh in _Glinda_. We don't see any of them getting wetted down, but they do things that could clearly put them in danger of that fate without seeming to fear it. It may have something to do with the kind of magic the witches use to preserve their lives. Glinda seems to have found a spell that genuinely keeps her young. Zixi's spell is not as powerful, but since she seems to be totally fit as well as youthful-looking to everyone else, her body is probably also kept in good condition. Coo-ee-oh's youth may well just be the result of the general Oz spell of non-aging that took effect sometime around the time of Ozma's accession; while it isn't explicit, my impression in _Glinda_ is that Coo-ee-oh and the Su-dic have only been ruling their respective countries for a decade or two. Mombi, the WWW, and the WWE, on the other hand, had certainly been around for more than half a century, possibly much longer, at the time of Dorothy's first visit to Oz. If the spell they used to stay alive was much less powerful than Glinda's or even Zixi's, it might be that water would disrupt it and thus destroy them. I don't know of any legend that witches were vulnerable to water before Baum, but there was a superstition that witches couldn't cross running water (see "Tam O'Shanter's Ride" for an example). And water is disruptive to certain kinds of magic spells in quite a few fantasy books. All this, of course, is pure speculation. There isn't much direct evidence, but I think the above at least fits what evidence there is - without saying that there aren't a dozen other explanations that fit equally well. Gili: >So families >travel with their children, or send their children for a while to age there >- say after they've been babies for seven or eight years and the charm of >changing diapers wears off. From my experience the charm of changing diapers wears off well before children outgrow the need for it without any retardation of aging whatsoever! :-) Interesting speculations on the relationship of Baum to Cubism and Dada. I don't know enough about either to really comment, but I'll be interested if anyone who does wants to, or in any further insights you come up with after you've thought about it some more. J.L.: If my theory above is correct, then presumably when Mombi lost her magic it didn't cancel the effect of whatever spell she'd used to keep herself alive. The alternative is that once Ozma came to the throne Mombi, like everyone else in Oz, became immortal and unaging. Since the breaking of Ozma's enchantment necessarily took place before Mombi lost her powers, she'd no longer need the special spell. But in that case, she probably shouldn't have been vulnerable to water, either. Once again, we have to wonder whether she was really liquidated or if she was just shooed off. Nathan: Right, if the Sawhorse can draw the Red Wagon from the EC to Glinda's palace in an hour or less then it can't be very far. It's an open carriage, and though the wind speed is enough to frizz Dot's hair, they'd have been blown away if they were going much over 50-60 mph. Putting it at around 45 miles fits in fairly well with that time. Ruth: But Dorothy didn't go back to California at the end of _DotWiz_; Ozma sent her directly back to Kansas, since Uncle Henry had already gone there. The running gag in the Jack Benny show was about a bus, I think, rather than a train; anyhow it was going to "Anaheim, Azusa, and Cucamonga." (Not a very likely routing, since Anaheim is southeast of LA and Azusa is due east, with Azusa about due north of Anaheim. Cucamonga is indeed farther east of Azusa. "Altadena, Azusa, and Cucamonga" would have made more sense.) Dave: Since the Woozy's eyes flash real fire, I'd have to believe that he's a magical creature. Do you know of any non-magical creatures with that ability? 1/24: Gehan: You're right that in a sense all the creatures in Oz are magical, including the humans. Still, I think there's a difference between a creature who shares in the magical character of the country, but is otherwise like its normal counterparts in our world, and one that's fundamentally unlike any creatures we know of here. The Woozy, the Sawhorse, the Glass Cat, the dragons, etc. are in the latter category; Toto, Eureka, the Cowardly Lion and Hungry Tiger, Hank, and so on are in the former. Joyce: Interesting point about Glinda's demo of the Great Book of Records setting Ozma off on her misguided (if ultimately successful) expedition to rescue the royal family of Ev. Works for me! Doug: Well-done fantasy worlds have their own internal logic, even if it's not the same kind that works in our world. If most of what we know about Oz wasn't internally consistent, it wouldn't have anything like the appeal it does to me, and I think to most others. The fact that it isn't completely internally consistent just gives those of us who care about that sort of thing more to chew on. But feel free to ignore our arguments about it if they don't interest you. (It would, however, be nice if you'd use lower case where appropriate. OTHERWISE IT FEELS LIKE YOU'RE SHOUTING AT US.) Well, I've gotten three more Digests commented on; I'll try to finish catching up over the weekend, now that the NFL playoffs are over. (As a former Rams season ticket holder, I was pleased with the result. Though I wish they hadn't waited till both they and I had left Orange County...) David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-03-2000 Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 03:26:04 GMT Gehan: >In 'Magical Mimics of Oz', Jack Snow implies that some of the Ozites had >studied witchcraft and learned other arts of magic, and as a result, >created >alot of trouble in Oz and nearly prevented Princess Ozma from ascending the >throne. This seems to imply that Mombi and the other three witches were >just >ordinary women who studied/practised witchcraft, and eventually became >wicked witches. Another example is Ugu the Shoemaker Wizard. Ugu was not born as a magician, but the text makes explicit that one of his ancestors had been a great sorceror, so he might have inherited some of this ancestor's knack for magic. >Tip tells everyone in 'Land' that Mombi never went so chool, >and so she knows nothing about algebra. Perhaps witches are only meant to >study witchcraft. Well, Tip hasn't been with Mombi for her entire life, so she might have been to some kind of school before her "adoption" of the boy. I think it's more likely that she learned her witchcraft through a sort of private tutoring (possibly by her mother, if you believe that witchcraft is genetic). Joe: > I've heard a lot about March Laumer and am trying to sort out the true >from the false. I understand his books are more adult in tone, but am >fine with that provided they're not pornographic or anything... I'm >assuming they're not. My only concern is, can they be made to fit in >with the main Oz universe or are they way out there? Are there glaring >contradictions or simply things that can be rectified with a little >imagination on my part? Also, why can't I find these anywhere?! I haven't read any of Laumer's books, but I believe that they were privately printed, and only available from Laumer himself. I am not sure who might be selling them at this point. David Hulan: >I'm not even sure what political significance they'd >have, though the Wizard says that his father gave him all those names >because he was a politician. Perhaps the Wizard just meant that politicians liked long names, not that the specific names had anything to do with politics. >Humans may, but there's a clear implication that the Cowardly Lion, for >instance, hunts down other animals for food in _Wizard_ (though it's not >completely explicit), and certainly the Kalidahs seem to be intending to >eat Dorothy in that book and Trot and Cap'n Bill in _Magic_. And the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger eat bees, and Dorothy and the Wizard are only concerned that they might have been Trot and Cap'n Bill, not that their friends ate other sentient beings. Maybe the rules are different for insects, though. No one seems to have trouble with Billina eating bugs. > >wouldn't she [Ozma] > >remember Mombi more clearly as the nasty guardian who'd reared her? > >Nevertheless, when Ozma sees Mombi, she shows no especial reaction [253], > >Possibly Mombi's appearance had changed enough between the end of _Land_ >and _Lost King_ that Ozma didn't recognize her immediately? Along those same lines, it's interesting that Dorothy seems to immediately recognize Mombi, even though they had never met in previous FF books. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 11:34:41 -0600 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-30 & 02-03-2000 1/30: Nathan: >Well, there are other creatures that seem to be able to spontaneously >produce fire, most notably dragons. Yes, but they're also of magical origin; no natural creature can do that. Robin: >This makes me more secure in my MOPPET that Glinda is more an Ozma protector >than an Oz protector. As long as Glinda didn't perceive a direct connection >to Ozma's wellbeing, she didn't take action. (But I'll never figure out why >she seems to have given up so readily on finding Ozma.) Glinda certainly seems to be more interested in Ozma than in Oz as a whole, but she's known to have taken action unrelated to either Ozma or the Quadling Country - most notably, installing the Forbidden Fountain on the palace grounds. That was well before Ozma's day, since the wicked king of Oz was surely not Pastoria and probably not even his father. Ruth: >(Considering that home-freezers or >refrigerators with freezing compartments weren't, I think, generally >available at the time, the use of home ice-cream makers was probably >more familiar to readers then than it is now.) I ran across a reference a few days ago that said when freezing compartments were first added to home refrigerators, but I can't remember when it was. Sometime in the Twenties, I think. Home ice-cream makers were still being made quite recently, though - I know we got one as a wedding present (1974). (It didn't work very well, though.) They may be made even now. I mean the old kind that you put a salt-and-ice mix in the outer part and cranked an inner part; I know they make home ice-cream makers that you chill in a freezer and then crank a while, because we have one and make ice cream in it a few times a year. Lisa: >Tell me about how this movie has made an impact on you! Well, it really hasn't. I mean, I've seen it 8-10 times on the big screen and about as many on the tube, and enjoyed it every time, but I can't say it's made an "impact" on me. Certainly not as much as the books have. Tyler: >Piers Anthony, in his _Xanth_ novels, had an interesting discussion >of the differences in BEING magical and HAVING magic. A creature >such as a dragon (or a Woozy) is magical in nature, while other >animals can have magical abilities. This is pretty much the distinction that Baum makes between "immortals" (fairies, nomes, wood nymphs, ryls, knooks, erbs, and so on) and humans, even though some of the latter may also be immortal (like Ozites). The former have innate magic; the latter have to learn it, though they can do that. 2/3: Gehan: What evidence do you have that the ancestors of any of the witches we know of were even witches, much less wicked ones? I recall no mention of any such ancestors in any context. We do know that Ugu's ancestors were magicians, but there's no evidence that they were wicked, and in fact there's some that they weren't. And I don't think Nomes are inherently wicked, though Erbs seem to be, and Whimsies and Growleywogs probably are as well. Kaliko seems quite nice in _Tik-Tok_, for instance. John K.: >A neat interpretation, but A) were children rolling hoops this late? Since I can remember rolling hoops when I was a kid in the Forties, the short answer is "yes." >I wish, I wish, I WISH I knew what he meant by saying that his main >reason for rejecting Christianity was "the Devil"; to someone with a >sound grounding in theology, that's like saying that ones main reason >for opposing the Automobile is that they come with cigarette lighters. Yeah, but what are the odds that Baum ever had occasion to discuss Christianity with someone with a sound grounding in theology? If his main exposure was to the kind of hell-fire-and-brimstone preachers who were common a century ago (not that they're that rare today) then the Devil probably came across as a major player. Not that a reasonably sound grounding in theology prevents Christianity from offending my moral senses, but that's a separate issue and not relevant to Oz. Joe: March Laumer's books are hard to find because they were privately published in small editions. I've never read one myself, and have only seen a couple at Oz convention auctions. I believe the current count of Oz books is over 200, not counting comics. Tyler probably has the best count among people here, though Steve Teller might. Robin: Glinda in fact did her best to discourage Ozma from going to the Skeezer-Flathead war, but was unsuccessful. Another ambiguous character is Faleero. In _Kabumpo_ she's referred to as a "fairy princess," but in _Purple Prince_ Randy, at least, refers to her as a witch, and her actions are much more consistent with a witch than a fairy. >No boys allowed in Catty Corners: I'm not sure that this reinforces the >feminine mystique of felines as much as it refers to the fact that boys are >stereotypically too rough to play with cats. Boys tormenting cats is a cliche in a lot of books, probably because it happened a lot. I'm sure that's more the reason for "no boys allowed" than that cats are associated with females. Aaron: I have a friend who's a big fan of _Daria_, though I've never watched it myself. I'll try to check out your story. David G.: Yes, I quite enjoy the Oz Kids cartoons. I've watched most of them by now, though not all yet. (I do own them all, though. But I don't watch TV much.) At last! Caught up! David Hulan ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:10:04 EST Subject: Oz Gehan: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. I believe that a person's genetic heritage can define many physical characteristics, but I believe that qualities of character and morality are learned as you journey through life. Spock and Oz: I would guess that there is a logic to Oz and magic, although it may be different from ours. John Bell had an interesting comment about this in the July 13 - 16, 1999 Digest. Essentially, the way the Ozzy Universe works is more complicated than ours, but it still may follow an internal consistency. From our vantage point, we may see it as unordered, becuase its pattern is so much more complex than ours. Joe Bongiorno: Welcome to the Digest! No need to appologize for newness and lack of "gamespeak" as it were. I'm glad to fil you in on my thoughts concerning March Laumer. My own opinion is that in a textual sense, most of Laumer's books can be fit into the mainstream Ozzy Universe with little or no adjusting (with the possible exception of some events in _Crown of Oz_). Also, his assigned dates of some events need to be jiggled, but most of these are minor. In fact, March even explained some of the inconsistancies in the Famous Forty, such as the double-history of the Nine Tiny Piglets. As for the "adult" nature of his books, yes, they are more adult in tone and plot than other Oz books. Many people find his work pornographic, but I honestly believe that they are not. There is no graphic sex portayed in any book of his that I ever read, although there is plenty of suggestion and innuendo, such as the "Ozma" situation. :-) You cannot find his books because they are so rare. They were printed in very limited quantities and they are all sold. Too bad, since they are so good. > Possibly Mombi's appearance had changed enough between the end of _Land_ > and _Lost King_ that Ozma didn't recognize her immediately? This made me remember something all of a sudden. In chapter 16, Dorothy and Mombi both seem to recognize each other, although they have never met (at least, in any book written so far). It's likely that they've seen pictures of each other. In Mombi's case, she may have made several clandestine visits to EC and seen Dot. ********** SPOILER FOR OJO IN OZ ********** David Hulan: As I recall, Ozma effectively destroyed Mooj. ********** END OF SPOILER ********** Robin: When Glinda says "I wish I might help them", she clearly means helping the Americans, and not necessarily righting the wrongs in Jinxland. However, when the Scarecrow offers to assist, Glinda "Carefully instructed the Scarecrow what to do". Baum gave no details, but Glinda might have mentioned removing King Krewl. However, later on, the Scarecrow says that his mission is to specifically help the visitors, since Glinda knows that they are in danger from Krewl and Blinkie. Glinda still does not seem motivated to remove the ultimate source of the problem, or to help the suffering Jinxlanders, even though they are citizens of Oz and Quadlings, thus under the direct rule of Glinda. In the very next chapter, though, the Scarecrow no longer mentions helping the visitors, but begings by analyzing the political situation and stating that they must now remove Krewl from the throne. After Pon's abortive coup, the Scarecrow marches in and says that he himself has decided that Krewl should no longer rule. He claims that his status as friend and servant of Ozma gives him the authority to do this. This, by the way, brings us to another point about _Scarecrow_. Many people believe that Baum originally intended Jinxland to be outside of Oz, and only moved it inside Oz when he was nearly done with the story. Several sentence fragments towards the end of the story seem to support this, and I've found three more. When Trot meets the Scarecrow, she says "you used to live in the Land of Oz", and when describing him to Pon, says that he "comes from the fairyland of Oz". Upon seeing the Scarecrow, Krewl recalls that nobody had ever come to Jinxland from the Land of Oz before. The two events may be related, though. If Baum's orignal intent was to have Jinxland a country separate from Oz, then Glinda may not have been interested in removing Krewl from the throne. Rescuing the visitors may have been her only motivation, and perhaps in the original storyline, they escape to Oz leaving Krewl on the throne. With the change, though, it now seems necessary to right the wrongs in Jinxland. As for _Glinda_:... Yes, Glinda is very reluctant at first to do anything at all about the confrontation 'twixt the Skeezers and the Flatheads. After finding that Ozma is determined to resolve the situation, Dorothy says that Ozma should not put herself in danger, and Glinda recomends sending the Wizard to warn them not to fight. This mirrors the rule of thumb of captains and away team mission in _STNG_. TYler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 22:46:44 -0600 Subject: Oz Play/Valentines From: "David Godwin" A play: My landlandy/roommate/boss's granddaughter, age 7, is going to be in a play of _The Wizard of Oz_ later this month. She gets to be the vice mayor of the Munchkins, and is not too happy about that because she thinks it's a boy's part. I got a look at the script. It's weird. To share it with you a bit: The script and lyrics are by Pete Martin, music by Coleen Fowler and Larry McCaghy. Anyone hear of this before? Is it a strictly local production, perhaps? The play seems to be a combination of book, film, and some strange postmodernisms. It follows the book in some respects, but not others, and it does have songs (not the ones from the MGM film). It begins not on a farm, but in a school in Kansas. As in the film, the Oz characters have Kansas counterparts, mostly Dorothy's fellow schoolchildren. The Scarecrow is a girl named Katherine. Toto is stuffed. I don't know what the author had in mind, but very early on, one of the characters says, "&*%$#." The vice mayor says to Dorothy upon her arrival, "You are a witch." She replies. "And you are a snivelling little toadstool." The late witch is called not the Wicked Witch of the East but the Witch From Thisaway. Her sister is the Witch From Thataway. The one good witch is the Witch From Over Here. The Munchkins are convinced that nothing exists outside Munchkinland and that the yellow brick road goes nowhere. The shoes are silver, not ruby. When she makes her entrance, the Witch From Thataway says, "Fiddly, faddly, foddly, foo. I need some Munchkins for a stew!" They call the Tin Woodman (i.e., the Tin Man) "Mr. Man," but he says, "You can call me Tin." Unlike the MGM film, we get to hear the story of how he came to be tin. They make friends with the field mice by rescuing the queen from a snake (not a wildcat; rubber snakes are more economical). However, the mice do not rescue them from the poppies. When they're out (Nick and Scarecrow just _pretending_ to be knocked out for some strange reason), the witch gets the silver shoes and leaves her old ones. Dorothy, the Lion, and Toto are revived, or shocked out of sleep, by smelling the witch's discarded shoes. At the EC, the guardian determines whether they are witches by pricking their fingers. If they bleed green, they would be witches. At first he thinks they bleed green because he is wearing the green glasses, but another guard who is not wearing glasses sets him straight. There's a good deal of punning with Winkies and Twinkies. The witch is melted not with water but by being made to see herself in a mirror (forcing her to see how wicked she is). It is the Wizard, not Glinda (or the Witch From Over Here) who tells Dorothy about clicking the heels of her silver shoes, but she doesn't even need to do that. All she needs to do is write, the way she was writing about a tornado when the real one hit the school. She does. The end. Cute, huh? Anyone else ever hear of this thing? K-Mart Wizard of Oz Valentines: I have a quarrel with these people. There's no Margaret Hamilton Valentine! - David G. ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:55:35 EST Subject: OZ QUESTIONS : There used to be OLDER footage of WIZARD OF OZ with Buddy Ebsen and Judy Garland in BLONDE hair. What ever happened to it ? Has it been recorded over ? or does anyone know if it is still around ? Plus, what happened to the SETS, COSTUMES, and PROPS of 1939's OZ? RETURN TO OZ : How was it that a shooting star sent from the SCARECROW, brought down a key from OZ, if DOROTHY's crate she slept in brought her to OZ by SEA ? Where did the OZMA LOOK ALIKE come from ? Where did she go when the storm lost her at sea ? I found it weird that TOTO was BROWN, not BLACK like in the 1939 film ! ( i know RTO was a video sequel WOZ and MLOZ BOOKS ) Which characters from the OZ books were in the final scene group shot in the EMERALD CITY ? RANDOM OZ: What is POSSIBLY the DEFINITIVE OZ SEQUEL ? Where should OZ lie ?( IF IT WAS ON EARTH ) I have been baffling myself What is the history of the DEADLY DESSERT ? Did the SILVER SHOES ever show up in later OZ books ? What happened to Dorothy's old house from WOZ book ? Is it still standing ? Where exactly did MOMBI come FROM? where did " LURLINE " get powers to transform a land " OZ " into ENCHANTMENT ? EX: with magic, etc .... what is the BIG significance that PASTORIA had on OZ ? how did OZ officially get its name ? did OZMA ever hold a grudge for knowing that the WIZARD traded her over to MOMBI ? In later editions of OZ books did WWE or WWW ever come back alive and seek revenge on ON ANYONE, has that subject ever come up for a topic of any NEW OZ BOOKS ? how 2000 adequate is OZ ? HAs it changed alot from DOROTHY's first visit ? I need info for a NEW OZ BOOK, I may want to write sometime in the future SUPPOSEDLY, what year did DOROTHY FIRST go to OZ ? How old was she ? is DOROTHY BLONDE or BROWN HAIRED ? WHERE does DOROTHY LIVE now ? Does OZMA still reside in the PALACE ? What NEWER OZ books can tell me this INFO, THAT I CAN FIND in a LIBRARY or something relative to it ? What is the definitive OZ BOOK anyone could EVER want ? how old SHOULD OZMA really be ? THaNKS, i APPRECIATE THIS, i HAD MANY QUESTIONS AND DID NOT KNOW WHERE TO GO !!!! eMAIL ME AT : SeraMary@aol.com Lisa fellow OZ extremist ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 14:21:57 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-03-2000 Well, don't know if these have been addressed yet, since I'm still busy with my 4-day-old, but... > David Hulan: > I'm not even sure what political significance they'd [the wizard's names] > have, though the Wizard says that his father gave him all those names > because he was a politician. I think Baum jsut meant hear that Oz's father was long-winded.... >It's weirder to have a jungle (or forest, really) where lions and tigers > and bears all live, since lions aren't normally found in jungles (Tarzan > books to the contrary notwithstanding) and also aren't found wild any more > in Asia, whereas tigers aren't found in Africa. I don't think bears are > found in Africa either, but I'm less sure about that. > There have been no bears in Africa since pre-historic times. Apparently they were outcompeted by the more aggresive predators. There are bears in Europe, North and South America, and Asia. --Mike "Shaggy Father" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Feb 00 14:55:51 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things EUDORA: I know this isn't Ozzy but I don't know who else to ask -- Does anyone here use EudoraPro 4.2 as their E-mailer? If you do, do you know why it's such a memory glutton? I start it, and my available system resources plummet by 30 - 40%! Even my 3D animation packages don't guzzle that much! DAVID G.: >K-Mart Wizard of Oz Valentines: >I have a quarrel with these people. There's no Margaret Hamilton Valentine! Kurt Steinruck would share your indignation. LISA: >There used to be OLDER footage of WIZARD OF OZ with Buddy Ebsen and Judy >Garland in BLONDE hair. What ever happened to it ? I think they showed it on that "Making of W. of Oz" documentary with Angela Lansbury. >Which characters from the OZ books were in the final scene group shot in the >EMERALD CITY ? DEFINITELY THERE: The Tin Man, the Cowardly Lion, Scraps, Tommy Kwikstep. POSSIBLY THERE: Polychrome, the Adepts, the Shaggy Man, Notta. DEFINITELY ABSENT: GLINDA!!! >Where should OZ lie ?( IF IT WAS ON EARTH ) >I have been baffling myself In my book, I put it in the South Pacific. >What is the history of the DEADLY DESSERT ? As far as we know, it was there when Lurline discovered Oz. >Did the SILVER SHOES ever show up in later OZ books ? They seem to have been lost (forever?) on Dorothy's first return to Kansas. >What happened to Dorothy's old house from WOZ book ? Is it still standing ? I think the Munchkins made it into a museum or National shrine. >where did " LURLINE " get powers to transform a land " OZ " into ENCHANTMENT? >EX: with magic, etc .... She's a fairy, so I imagine her native magical powers played a part... :) >what is the BIG significance that PASTORIA had on OZ ? We're getting into the deep haziness and murkiness of Pre-Dorothean times. >how did OZ officially get its name ? In my book, Lurline chose it because "Oz" means "great and good" in Nonesticese. >did OZMA ever hold a grudge for knowing that the WIZARD traded her over to >MOMBI ? Not as far as we can tell... _Oz and the Three Witches_ by Hugh Pendexter (the book that we of the Digest are trying to get reissued) tells how the Wizard exonerated himself by explaining to Glinda and Ozma the circumstances under which he gave Ozma up to Mombi. >In later editions of OZ books did WWE or WWW ever come back alive and seek >revenge on ON ANYONE, has that subject ever come up for a topic of any NEW OZ >BOOKS ? To my knowledge, no dead Oz character has ever been resurrected. >how 2000 adequate is OZ ? Er -- If you mean, are the Magic Picture and the Book of Records Y2K compliant, Jellia assures me that they are. :) >HAs it changed alot from DOROTHY's first visit ? Well, there have been a few minor changes, like Ozma taking the throne... :) (Can you be more specific about what changes you had in mind?) >SUPPOSEDLY, what year did DOROTHY FIRST go to OZ ? How old was she ? Calling all my Digest archivists! When was this discussed? ( I think we need to make the Digest archive searchable... :) ) >is DOROTHY BLONDE or BROWN HAIRED ? She's blonde according to Neill and Eric Shanower. >WHERE does DOROTHY LIVE now ? The Emerald City Palace. >Does OZMA still reside in the PALACE ? Jellia tells me that Ozma has a summer retreat on Lake Quad, but otherwise, yes. >What is the definitive OZ BOOK anyone could EVER want ? Um... I don't quite understand the question... Can you be more specific? >how old SHOULD OZMA really be ? Many would say I'm the wrong person to ask *that* one! Still, you can read my views in my "Can Ozma have It All?" essay on my page: http://www.mindspring.com/~daveh47/OzmaHave.html >eMAIL ME AT : >SeraMary@aol.com Oops! Okay, I'll send you the above in a private message as well... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 9 - 10, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:00:22 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things David Hulan: >I think that in fact human beings are more than 70% water; I remember >something more like 90%. I've read in several books that human beings are 67%-70% water. However, blood is 9/10 water...... >Coo-ee-oh's youth may well just be >the result of the general Oz spell of non-aging that took effect sometime >around the time of Ozma's accession Hmmm.....I've always thought that everyone had the right to pick their PERMANANT age since the time Queen Lurline enchanted Oz. I don't believe that it was AFTER Ozma's accession, from the evidence given in 'Tinwoodman of Oz', and I also don't believe that Ozma is powerful enough to do such a thing..... >I don't know of any legend that witches >were vulnerable to water before Baum Which is why I believe that only NONESTICAN/OZIAN witches are vulnerable to water. >What evidence do you have that the ancestors of any of the witches we know >of were even witches, much less wicked ones? I recall no mention of any >such ancestors in any context. I don't have any evidence, and I know there's no evidence in the FF. T'was just my own 'MOPPET'......As for Kaliko, I believe that he has ego problem...... John K: >> >I wish, I wish, I WISH I knew what he meant by saying that his main > >reason for rejecting Christianity was "the Devil"; to someone with a > >sound grounding in theology, that's like saying that ones main reason > >for opposing the Automobile is that they come with cigarette lighters. What does Christianity have to do with the devil? Christians don't BELIEVE IN/WORSHIP the devil, they aren't voodoos.....I wonder what L. Frank Baum was talking about. Eric Gjovaag told me that L. Frank Baum was a Methodist. Is this true? Lisa Marie : >How was it that a shooting star sent from the SCARECROW, brought down a key >from OZ, if DOROTHY's crate she slept in brought her to OZ by SEA ? MAGIC! I believe that the Scarecrow sent the key to Dot on the shooting star by means of magic(i know he isn't a magician, but a sky fairy could have helped him. Someone like Polychrome, who spends alot of time up in the sky), and I believe that Dorothy unknowingly passed a dimension gate/portal which transported her to Oz, or rather, transsported her to the Deadly Desert. > >Where did the OZMA LOOK ALIKE come from ? Where did she go when the storm >lost her at sea ? I believe that Ozma's look-alike WAS really Ozma. I don't know how to explain it, but I feel she somehow managed to TEMPORARILY escape Mombi's magic mirror in order to help Dot come and rescue Oz. Lisa Mastroberte also prefers that theory. As you may see, there are TONS of loose-ends in RTOZ...... >Which characters from the OZ books were in the final scene group shot in the >EMERALD CITY ? Apart from the Tinwoodman, the Cowardly Lion, the Scarecrow, Dot, Jack, Billina, the Gump and Tik-Tok, there were - Mustafa of Mudge, Santa Claus, Notta Bit More, The Braided Man, Polychrome, King Rinkitink, Scraps the Patchwork Girl, Tommy Kwikstep, Cap'n Bill, The Shaggy Man, The Munchkins, The Guardian of the Gates and a few others, whom I can't quite put my finger on. I also think Omby Amby the Soldier with Green Whiskers was among them, and I also think I spied Private Files, Princess Ozga, and someone who looked like Jinjur. >What is POSSIBLY the DEFINITIVE OZ SEQUEL ? THE LAND OF OZ is the TRUE Wizard of Oz-sequel, followed by the rest of the FF books, if THAT'S what you mean..... >Where should OZ lie ?( IF IT WAS ON EARTH ) >I have been baffling myself I once thought that it lay somewhere in the Australian Desert, but that was BEFORE I read about the various countries SURROUNDING Oz. Personally, I don't think its on earth....I believe its a)in another 'enchanted' planet or b)in a parrerel universe where 'earth' is bigger than 'our' earth. I prefer to go with 'A', but I also think that Dot, Trot, Peter e.t.c lived in a 'parrerel' earth for several reasons. > >What is the history of the DEADLY DESSERT ? There is no history given in the 'FF' books, but the TOTCLAF books might have their own theories. Its upto you to accept them or not...... >Did the SILVER SHOES ever show up in later OZ books ? Nope, they were 'lost' in the Deadly Desert for good, although a non-FF book called 'The Silver Slippers of Oz' explains how Betsy found them...... >What happened to Dorothy's old house from WOZ book ? Is it still standing ? I think it's something like a 'historical' landmark or something LIKE that..... >Where exactly did MOMBI come FROM? Ruth Plumly Thompsons describes her as an 'old Gilliken witch', which would mean that she was a native Ozian/Gilliken, only she was not an ORDINARY woman, she was a WITCH...... >where did " LURLINE " get powers to transform a land " OZ " into ENCHANTMENT >? >EX: with magic, etc .... Well, one SHOULD accept the FAIRY QUEEN to have that kind of power....... >what is the BIG significance that PASTORIA had on OZ ? I don't quite get what you mean. >how did OZ officially get its name ? I accept Dave's theory on that...... >did OZMA ever hold a grudge for knowing that the WIZARD traded her over to >MOMBI ? My own MOPPET is that she forgave him at once, not having a 'vindictful' heart, since she seems to allow everyone, including the Royal Historians to say that it was Mombi HERSELF that kidnapped Ozma. I think Ozma was trying to 'protect' the Wizard there..... >In later editions of OZ books did WWE or WWW ever come back alive and seek >revenge on ON ANYONE, has that subject ever come up for a topic of any NEW OZ >BOOKS ? I'm working on a new Oz Book called 'Mombi's Revenge on Oz', in which Mombi tries to re-write the history of Oz the way SHE wanted it go, by means of a Magic HOZTORY book and a Magic Clock. The WWE and the WWW will appear in my books, and I have choosen to give them both names. I call the WWE 'Mayhemeg'(Mayhem + Meg) and the WWW 'Wickedna' (Wicked + Edna)......... >SUPPOSEDLY, what year did DOROTHY FIRST go to OZ ? How old was she ? She FIRST visited Oz in 1899 according to the HAAC, but I prefer to believe that it was somewhere between 1896-1897. I also believe that she was around 6-7 at that time. Other Digesters are SURE to have DIFFERENT theories...... >how old SHOULD OZMA really be ? Ruth Plumly Thompson says she's lived for ALMOST a thousand years in 'Kabumpo in Oz', but Baum seems to imply in 'Magic of Oz' that she's been around since the beginning of time. As Glinda says, its a 'mystery', and my own theory is that fairies don't have an 'age' as such, as their immortals, and seemed to have existed since the beginning of time..... ~Gehan~ *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Mother of Christ, Mother of Christ What shall I ask of thee? I do not sigh for the wealth of earth For the joys that fade and flee, but, Mother of the Christ, Mother of Christ, This do I long to see: The bliss untold which thine arms enfold The treasure upon thy knee Mother of Christ, Mother of Christ, I toss on a stormy sea Oh life thy child as a beacon light To the port where I fain would be, and, Mother of Christ, Mother of Christ, This do I ask of thee: When the voyage is o'er, Oh stand of the shore And show him at last to me -- 'Mother of Christ' *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 09:39:03 -0600 From: Stephen Teller Subject: Ozzy Matters > Joe: > > I've heard a lot about March Laumer and am trying to sort out the true > >from the false. I understand his books are more adult in tone, but am > >fine with that provided they're not pornographic or anything... I'm > >assuming they're not. My only concern is, can they be made to fit in > >with the main Oz universe or are they way out there? Are there glaring > >contradictions or simply things that can be rectified with a little > >imagination on my part? Also, why can't I find these anywhere?! > > I haven't read any of Laumer's books, but I believe that they were privately > printed, and only available from Laumer himself. I am not sure who might be > selling them at this point. > It is true that March's books are not pornographic. In many ways they fit into the main Oz Universe, although they are quite various. Some contradict others, as AUNT EM AND UNCLE HENRY IN OZ and UNCLE HENRY AND AUNT EM IN OZ are mutually exclusive, although they use the same plot device, Aunt Em and Uncle Henry visit the house in which Dorothy had been blown to Oz and the spirit of the WWE infects Aunt Em. Some bring in strange ideas. In THE MAGIC MIRROR OF OZ an attempt is made to turn Oz Orange, but instead the colors of the East and West countries are reversed--which explains why in many of Thompson's books the Winkies are in the East. Some are set in the future, some in the past. Many try to explain contradictions between the books: THE CARELESS KANGAROO OF OZ explains why when Polychrome and the Shaggy Man meet in TIKTOK they do not remember being together in ROAD and how Eureka got back to Oz. These books were published by March Laumer himself. Except for two, THE GREEN DOLPHIN OF OZ (which is the absolutely least Ozzy of them all and shouldn't be used to judge the others)and AUNT EM AND UNCLE HENRY IN OZ they were not printed but mimeographed and stapled or ring bound. Since March died this year the disposition of his remaining stock is not yet determined--he had, I have heard a neice who might take charge. Temporarily, at least they are in limbo. > >No boys allowed in Catty Corners: I'm not sure that this reinforces the > >feminine mystique of felines as much as it refers to the fact that boys are > >stereotypically too rough to play with cats. > > Boys tormenting cats is a cliche in a lot of books, probably because it > happened a lot. I'm sure that's more the reason for "no boys allowed" than > that cats are associated with females. > One of the QUEEN VISITOR stories concerned a boy who tormented a stray cat until he was forced to be that stray for a night; then he gained sympathy for the boor creature. Tyler: > This, by the way, brings us to another point about _Scarecrow_. Many people > believe that Baum originally intended Jinxland to be outside of Oz, and only > moved it inside Oz when he was nearly done with the story. Several sentence > fragments towards the end of the story seem to support this, and I've found > three more. > Part of the reason for this is because the Jinxland chapters of SCARECROW are based on the movie, HIS MAJESTY THE SCARECROW OF OZ which has Dorothy as a servamt of Blinkie, no Captain Bill (or Glinda), and the Tin Woodman and the Wizard join in the conquest of King Krewl (the Lion tried to help, but he couldn't climb the rope ladder into the castle). Lisa: Some answers: > What is POSSIBLY the DEFINITIVE OZ SEQUEL ? > Personal opinion, my choice is OZMA > Did the SILVER SHOES ever show up in later OZ books ? > In THE SILVER SHOES OF OZ by Marin Xiques > What happened to Dorothy's old house from WOZ book ? Is it still standing ? See Laumer's AUNT EM AND UNCLE HENRY and UNCLE HENRY AND AUNT EM. > where did " LURLINE " get powers to transform a land " OZ " into ENCHANTMENT > ? > EX: with magic, etc .... > See Marcus Mebes LURLINE AND THE WHITE RAVENS OF OZ. > > did OZMA ever hold a grudge for knowing that the WIZARD traded her over to > MOMBI ? > See OZ AND THE THREE WITCHES by Poindexter > In later editions of OZ books did WWE or WWW ever come back alive and seek > revenge on ON ANYONE, has that subject ever come up for a topic of any NEW OZ > BOOKS ? > See the Laumer books mentioned above. There are other cases in apocrypha. > how 2000 adequate is OZ ? HAs it changed alot from DOROTHY's first visit ? > I need info for a NEW OZ BOOK, I may want to write sometime in the future > Probably most of the digesters would consider it very adequate. You should contact some of the Oz publishers (i.e. Books of Wonder and Chris Dulabone for advice > is DOROTHY BLONDE or BROWN HAIRED ? > Blonde in Neill's illustrations and later. WHERE does DOROTHY LIVE now ? In Ozma's Palace Does OZMA still reside in the PALACE ? Yes > What NEWER OZ books can tell me this INFO, THAT I CAN FIND in a LIBRARY or > something relative to it ? > > What is the definitive OZ BOOK anyone could EVER want ? > There is none, there are hundreds of books. Tyler Jones and/or I have most of them. Many contradict others. There is no definitive Oz encyclopedia. > how old SHOULD OZMA really be ? > Fairies are immortal and do not have ages in our sense. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:22:56 -0500 From: "Lisa M. Mastroberte" Subject: I'm back (yay) Lisa Marie: <> Yes, as far as I know it's still around. They used to show clips after showings of "The Wizard of Oz" on CBS, and now that T.Turner owns the rights and is showing it on TBS and TCM, usually they do the little "Making Of" shtick before or after. <> There is a pair of Ruby Slippers at MGM Studios in Florida, (I have a picture--yay!) one at the Smithsonian Institue ... umm ... doesn't Debbie Renyolds have the "Arabian Test Shoes"? As for other props and costumes ... I don't know, really. The Ruby Slippers are the most famous :) <> All I can say is, "Huh?" <> Oh, yay, the age old "Is that Ozma?" debate. ;) Um, my guess is that it IS Ozma ... there is some sort of mirror connection wherever she appears. (I think there is a mirror in Dorothy's room at the clinic, there is one in the drawing room, palace, and Dorothy's new bedroom.) <> The dog's name is Tansy ... I don't know why they chose a brown one ... after all, in most ways RTOZ is closer to the books where Toto is "A little black dog with silky hair and black eyes" ... but my guess is that a trained brown one is all they could get at the time. <> Okay ... here's the deal. Some of the characters look way different from the books, but since I read "The World of Oz", I know that Polychrome is the girl with the gigantic rainbow headress and rainbow makeup. The Frogman, Tommy Kwikstep [with less legs ... there was another guy in the back of him], Jenny Jump [hard to spot, but she is in a green dress in the center with brown Shirley Temple pigtails], Notta Bit More/China Clown, Scraps, Private Files and Ozga, Cap'n Bill, and umm ... some others. I'll post another post later. --Lisa -- "Every man is the painter and sculptor of his own life." - S. John Chrysostom (+407) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:11:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-2000 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: darth-bane@juno.com >Did the SILVER SHOES ever show up in later OZ books ? > They seem to have been lost (forever?) on Dorothy's first return to Kansas. According to Roger Baum's Dorothy of Oz, the silver shoes were recovered by Glinda from the Deadly Desert where they had fallen. Their power was such that there was only one more usage left in them by the end of the book. Dorothy used it to go home again and the silver shoes disappeared over the Deadly Desert never to be of use again.... ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:20:38 -0800 Subject: Re: Dorothy's house and the origin of the Yellow Brick road... X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: darth-bane@juno.com >What happened to Dorothy's old house from WOZ book ? Is it still standing ? >I think the Munchkins made it into a museum or National shrine. If they did, it was after Roger Baum's Dorothy in Oz, where Dorothy and friends return there to discover the house haunted by the spirit of the WWE. >In later editions of OZ books did WWE or WWW ever come back alive and seek >revenge on ON ANYONE, has that subject ever come up for a topic of any NEW OZ BOOKS ? As mentioned above, the spirits of WWW and WWE came back to trouble Dorothy and her companions. The WWE caused storms to brew in munchkinland and turned the yellow brick road not so yellow. The theory is also postulated that yellow brick road was created by the Wizard and Glinda out of sunshine (which is why it is yellow). In Donald Abbot's How the Wizard Came to Oz (or was it How the Wizard Saved Oz?), he says the "first" yellow brick road was created by the WWE in order for her to march an army to Emerald City to defeat the Wizard. Perhaps, since there are two roads in Munchkinland, both scenarios are possible. If not, then maybe the first road, the one created by the WWE, was later overlaid by sunshine by the Wizard and Glinda... Anyway, back to the main point, the WWW's spirit also reappeared in that book and corrupted Gayelette's jester who had possession of her wand. Both spirits were done away with by book's end.... ====================================================================== From: Dougwmson@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:14:45 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-2000 REPLY FROM DOUG From: Doug E-Mail: dougwmson@.com I guess I will have to struggle with lower case since you Dave, and and others, are upset by all caps. I have been using all caps for over 15 years with no complaints. Probably since it is much easier to read but does take up more space. I repeat: "THERE IS NO LOGIC TO MAGIC". That is what makes magic so interesting and attractive. Anything can happen and usually does, in OZ. There is nothing constant but change. OZ or elsewhere. I would like you to make your readers aware of a recent book that I just read and enjoyed. I have no axe to grind no any financial interest. OZ AND BEYOND The Fantasy World of L. Frank Baum By Michael O. Riley University Press of Kansas 1997 2501 West 15th Street Lawrence. KS 660-49 This book introduces, clarifies, and analyses the stories, the author, etc. I think it is excellent for both new and old OZ readers. Undoubtedly you have already read the book Dave. I went to the library to find "To Please a Child" and found this. To establish my credentials; I read all of the LFB and RPT books more than 20 times each when I was a child, starting at age 7. I still manage to reread 1 or 2 each year. ====================================================================== From: "Arlem" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-2000 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 17:23:23 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" David: >> It seems well within the >>realm of possibility that Mombi blocked Glinda's magic from uncovering >>Ozma's whereabouts. >But Glinda's magic seems to be far more powerful than Mombi's; it's hard to >imagine how Mombi could have blocked the Great Book of Records from finding >Ozma. Or Pastoria, for that matter. Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think the Great Book of Records existed at that point, why else would Glinda rely on a network of spies, as stated in Land. Perhaps Glinda was less powerful in Land than she is now. Just a thought..... back to lurking I go..... oh and if anyone has any of March Laumer's Oz books they'd like to loan/sell please let me know... arlem ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-2000 Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 01:01:00 GMT David Hulan: >I'm not sure that it's RPT that creates the all-powerful magic belt. It >seems to me that it's pretty much all-powerful in _Ozma_; the problem seems >to be that Ozma and Dorothy don't think of using it most of the time (as >when they're sunk in the lake in _Glinda_). And Dorothy seems to have >forgotten how to use it in _Lost Princess_ (and its powers seem to be >mysteriously diminished in that one book only). Oddly enough, both _Lost Princess_ and _Glinda_ indicate that nothing can hurt Dorothy while she's wearing the Belt, yet that doesn't seem to hold true in other books (or maybe just for other wearers). If it did, would Dorothy have been able to steal the Belt in the first place, and would Roquat have had any reason to fear the eggs that the Scarecrow threw at him? Similarly, in _Gnome King_, Ruggedo is physically injured numerous times while wearing the Belt. (In fact, if the Belt had protected him from physical harm, he would probably have succeeded in sending the important Ozites to the bottom of the ocean.) I suppose one possibility is that it's really the GWN's kiss, and not the Belt, that protects Dorothy from harm, but wouldn't Glinda have realized this, even if Dorothy and Ozma hadn't? >You're right that in a sense all the creatures in Oz are magical, including >the humans. Still, I think there's a difference between a creature who >shares in the magical character of the country, but is otherwise like its >normal counterparts in our world, and one that's fundamentally unlike any >creatures we know of here. The Woozy, the Sawhorse, the Glass Cat, the >dragons, etc. are in the latter category; Toto, Eureka, the Cowardly Lion >and Hungry Tiger, Hank, and so on are in the former. Well, unless Eureka really DID become pink in between _Dorothy and the Wizard_ and _Patchwork Girl_, in which case she might have something magical about her. >Another ambiguous character is Faleero. In _Kabumpo_ she's referred to as a >"fairy princess," but in _Purple Prince_ Randy, at least, refers to her as >a witch, and her actions are much more consistent with a witch than a >fairy. My own conjecture, as expressed in my short story, "The Banishment of Faleero," is that Faleero is a fairy who learned witchcraft. >I have a friend who's a big fan of _Daria_, though I've never watched it >myself. I'll try to check out your story. I read it, and I enjoyed it, too, even thought I've never seen "Daria." Tyler: ********** SPOILER FOR OJO, PIRATES, AND HANDY MANDY ********** >David Hulan: >As I recall, Ozma effectively destroyed Mooj. In _Handy Mandy_, Ozma states that she transformed Ruggedo in a manner that he could only be disenchanted when dropped by the seventh hand of a travelling Mernite, and, as she makes it quite clear that she did not even know what a Mernite was at that point, this might have been close to a "destruction." ********** END OF SPOILER ********** Lisa: >I found it weird that TOTO was BROWN, not BLACK like in the 1939 film ! ( i >know RTO was a video sequel WOZ and MLOZ BOOKS ) Yes, but Toto was certainly black in the books, too. This is established very early in _Wizard_. Dave Hardenbrook: > >What is the history of the DEADLY DESSERT ? > >As far as we know, it was there when Lurline discovered Oz. But it might not have been deadly at the time. Mombi (in Griffin form) walks on the desert in _Land_ without turning to dust. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 21:49:44 EST Subject: Oz Searchable Digest Archive: Ah! A chance for me to sharpen my skills in DHTML, XML, Java(script), ISAPI, blah, blah, blah... Dave: How goes the search for Hugh Pendexter? OzMinistration: Several of you have been e-mailing me privately recently. It would be better for you to sent private correspondence to TYLERJ@APPRENTICE.COM, since I only check this e-mail address a couple times a week, and I am "live" on my work address weekdays generally from 9AM - 6PM. John Bell and David Hulan: There is no evidence that I can think of in or out of the FF that indicated that Lurline and Ozma communicated prior to the Conference in _Mimics_. Despite all of my griping about the "All Powerful Belt", it really is not used for much else besides transformation and transportation. Baum indicated that it could only grant one wish per day, and I'm not sure if RPT actually broke that rule. Triviata: Farmer's _Barnstormer_ had Oz in the shape of a circle the size of Alaska. EC was the size of Rhode Island. David H and football: My family used to be Rams ticketholders as well. You and the team may have left Orange County, but your respective destinations are not all that far apart. Nome-body Nomes the troubles I've seen (Ouch, that was bad!) Most of the average Nomes seem content to just work in the mines. While they may be more aggressive than humans, I don't get a sense that they are innately evil. Catty Corners: Interestingly, two cat-tormenting stories from people at work have been circulating right about the time that we're discussing this. Hmmm... Lisa: I'll answer a few of your questions (here and privately). Read on... Placing Oz in the South Pacific would be consistent with almost every incident in the FF, except for the time Peter fell in the water off Cape Hatteras and swam to Oz. AFAIK, The Deadly Desert has no history. It may not have been lethal until about the time Ozma took the throne, but the desert, in and of itself, has rarely impinged on Oz history except for the problems of crossing it. An exception is _The Braided Man of Oz_, wherein we meet a tribe of Robots living in the desert. The Silver Shoes have been "recovered" a number of times. Somebody even found the Ruby Slippers once! THe only explanation is that there are several pairs of magic shoes floating around out there with similar properties. We don't know anything at all about Mombi's history. She apparantly was around for at least a century before the Wizard arrived, but that's all. She's just a wicked old woman who studied magic. Lurline has often been described as the "Queen of the Fairies". While she may not actually rule all fairies and fairy-like beings everywhere, she seems to already have a great deal of magical power. In the non-FF _Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz_, Lurline gets some help by "borrowing" some magical items from the Greek gods. I don't think that Pastoria had all that much effect on Oz. His tenure as ruler seems to have been very brief. He's known only for being tranformed by Mombi. At most, he may have built part of the Emerald City and united some of the hinterlands. > did OZMA ever hold a grudge for knowing that the WIZARD > traded her over to MOMBI ? Ooooooh, this question just begs a re-telling of _Oz and the Three Witches (see above). The answer is no. She was never angry at him. The WWE only came back once in spirit in a March Laumer book. WWW has made more comebacks that Aerosmith, and under a barrage of different names. The nature and concept of Oz has changed a great deal since Dorothy first arrived. Back then, it was seen for the most part as a very low-populated land of farms and mysterious forests. These days, Oz is a rollicking place filled with odd little kingdoms. Current HACC theory (and this is by no means Universally accepted, but it's the best I can come up with) has Dorothy visiting Oz in 1898 at the age of 6. In Book 1, Dorothy had brown hair. In all others, blond. In HER first book, Ozma had blond hair, then black ever after. Dorothy moved to the Royal Palace of the Emerald City in 1905 (HACC theory from the date of occurence of book 6 _The Emerald City of Oz_). Ozma also lives there. The only "definitive" Oz book I can think of is the first. Besides that, there really is no one that tells it all. Baum described Ozma as being 14 or 15. However, many people feel that is far too old, and that she must be between 8 and 12 at the very most. That's physiologically, of course. Whew! Lotsa post for me! Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: Dougwmson@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 16:48:07 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-2000 FROM: DOUG I sent you the wrong e-mail address in my previous reply. it should be dougwmson@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:29:11 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Bradys in Oz ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:11:00 EST From: Marbpl@aol.com Subject: oz reference The following is from the infamous 1977 BRADY BUNCH HOUR. The detailed episode guide didn't seem to indicate which episode (although I may not have read it too carefully). http://w ww.bradyhour.com/sc1jj.JPG ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 21:23:40 -0600 Subject: Oz From: "David Godwin" Nathan wrote: >And the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger eat bees, and Dorothy and the >Wizard are only concerned that they might have been Trot and Cap'n Bill, not >that their friends ate other sentient beings. Maybe the rules are different >for insects, though. It would seem so, but what of woggle bugs? One of them was capable of becoming thoroughly educated while crawling around a school room. As for eating bees, people seem concerned that the Woozy not do so. It would be complicating things unnecessarily, I think, to postulate that honeybees and woggle bugs have a different level of sentience from other insects - although, with only four limbs, the Woggle Bug is not, strictly speaking, an insect at all. David Hulan wrote: >Nathan: > >Well, there are other creatures that seem to be able to spontaneously > >produce fire, most notably dragons. > >Yes, but they're also of magical origin; no natural creature can do that. With the one notable exception - Homo sapiens. But that is an acquired ability requiring tools, not an inherent trait. Then there are fireflies, but that's not really fire. Also, under certain conditions, cats can shoot fire (static electricity) from their fur. Metaphorically, the sting of a scorpion burns like fire. All these are quibbles, but I truly would not be surprised to learn that some obscure insect or lizard or undersea creature can truly produce fire from skin or orifice. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 22:37:13 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Great Book of CDs charset=ISO-8859-1 If folks haven't looked at this article on James Doyle, David Maxine, and the music from Baum's stage plays and movies, it's worth a long look: http://www.houstonpress.com/issues/2000-01-27/feature2.html I've also enjoyed Jim's CD of music associated with Baum and Oz, available from Hungry Tiger Press. It's especially impressive considering it's the product of only one musician. David Hulan wrote of the Wizard's many given names: <> Besides requiring lung power, the names the Wizard's father chose for him come from a variety of communities that an urban politician might wish to please: Irish, German, Hebrew, English, French (well, *Norman* French). Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> Unless it merely means that an immortal (i.e., some kind of fairy) could see through the spell, even though Dorothy couldn't. In other words, the phrase might say more about the limit of the witch's power than about the witch herself. David Hulan wrote: <> LOST KING tells us that Mombi transformed Pajuka in such a way that he couldn't tell Glinda about his plight. That shows Mombi was anticipating opposition from the sorceress and taking preemptive steps against her. And such steps seem to prevent Glinda, despite her greater power, from overcoming Mombi's concealing spells. Indeed, Glinda is quite forthright in LAND that she can't identify the lost princess Ozma or restore her; only Mombi can. Similarly, in LOST KING only the original green magic spell can restore Pastoria. Obviously, Mombi casts a very powerful transformation even if Glinda can defeat her in a one-on-one battle. Could such witchcraft overpower the Great Book of Records? Many times that Book is said to be one of the most magical items in Oz, recording every event in the world. However, in practice the Book's limitations become quite evident. Its reports are terse and far from complete. The nature of those accounts is probably to blame for Glinda not noticing: * Pajuka's quest for his master, even though she'd presumably recognize the former Prime Minister's name. [Accepting Ruggedo's claim that the Book doesn't record animals' doings would, however, explain that oversight.] * how Mrs. Yoop transformed and imprisoned the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman. * the Scarecrow's many days on the Silver Islands. * Ruggedo's underground trickery, and his invasion from Menankypoo. * Mogodore's attack on the Emerald City from Glinda's own Quadling Country. * the Wizard of Wutz's elaborate plot. * problems in the Ozure Isles, Seebania, and other large and important kingdoms within Oz, involving some of Ozma's friends and allies. These aren't distant disputes and injustices of the sort that Glinda urges Ozma to ignore in GLINDA, and that she herself ignored prior to SCARECROW. Rather, these events are crucial to Ozma's security and/or happiness. If the Great Book of Records were truly to have informed Glinda about them, her lack of action would be inexplicable. Therefore, I have to believe the power of the Great Book of Records is somewhat overstated, like the power of the Barrier of Invisibility and perhaps even the power of the Deadly Desert. In all three cases, Glinda has every reason to let Oz's neighbors and historians believe that their power is absolute. The Book recording *every* action? The Barrier *completely* impenetrable? The Desert *immediately* fatal? Those beliefs keep Oz safe, even though [don't tell!] we have evidence contradicting all three. The Great Book of Records probably doesn't record every action, therefore, and may be vulnerable to outside magic. Finding Pastoria would seem to be a mission near the top of Glinda's to-do list--at the very least, she wouldn't let an opportunity to do it pass by [unless she were even more devious than I'd credit]. Glinda would therefore be alert to the names of Pajuka and Mombi and any other clues to the lost king's whereabouts. Yet she never finds anything (or at least anything she tells Ozma about). I can see the Book's reports to be vague and unhelpful most of the time, but *all* of the time between its first page and the end of LOST KING? Glinda's lack of clues seems to imply some magical interference built into Mombi's original spells. Such magical interference allows the Great Book of Records exist before LAND. I could even argue that for Mombi to have included such protection from the Book in her transformation, the Book had to exist back then. Putting that argument aside, the fact remains that Mombi's admittedly lesser powers completely stymied Glinda in her attempts to restore Ozma and/or her father. David Hulan wrote: << > Note that Lurline, Ozma's >"Fairy Godmother" [121], knew where her father was but never mentioned it. But is there any evidence that Ozma and Lurline ever communicated after Ozma took the throne? I don't recall any.>> There's no such evidence I can think of. (I theorize Lurline delivered the Magic Picture to Ozma after her ascension to the throne, but that's extra-canonical.) My point was that a "Fairy Godmother" traditionally protects a person and watches out for her interest [as Robin Olderman sees Glinda doing for Ozma]. That implies Lurline would be looking after the princess. Yet in this case Lurline seems to have been aware of Pastoria's change and imprisonment but did nothing to release him or inform his daughter of his whereabouts. The best solution for that paradox, it seems to me, is that Thompson's "Fairy Godmother" statement was simply wrong, or hinted too much about Lurline's bond with her. David Hulan wrote: <> And Robin Olderman wrote: <> That "cliche" and "stereotype" are just the other side of the 19th century's association of cats with females: dogs were linked with males. To quote from Nancy C. Carlisle, "The Chewed Chair Leg and the Empty Collar: Mementos of Pet Ownership in New England" (Dublin Seminar for New England Folklife, Annual Proceedings 1993): "Throughout the nineteenth century dogs tended to be associated with men. In both paintings and photographs, dogs are most often seen with men or boys. Portrait conventions during this period illustrate boys with dogs (or sticks or pony whips) while girls are shown with flowers, dolls, and fruit. . . . When owners are named on dog collars, particularly on early collars, the names are usually men's. . . . Cats, on the other hand, are almost always shown in the company of women and girls, [...usually] young girls and elderly women." This is another door into examining how the first two Oz authors portrayed gender roles. Baum introduced his little girl Dorothy in unorthodox fashion with a dog. Her kitten didn't arrive until two adventures later, and, unlike Toto and Billina, had only one adventure with Dorothy. In contrast, Thompson drew upon and perpetuated a traditional stereotype of gender: cats and boys don't mix in LOST KING, and in YANKEE a boy and a dog do. Tyler Jones wrote: <> LOST KING says Prof. Wogglebug's history of Oz mentions Mombi, though not by name. In GRAMPA such a history includes Dorothy. Thompson also describes a wide distribution of such books, as far as Kimbaloo and Ragbad. Therefore, I think it's indeed likely Mombi and Dorothy knew *of* each other even though they hadn't met. John W. Kennedy wrote of the Hoopers' park: <> Thompson shows Snip vanquishing the Hoopers by rolling them just as children did, and provides so little description of his act that I think she expected her readers to recognize it. Robin Olderman's reminder that <> implies that Thompson was deliberately locating the peoples she associated with play in parks. Whether or not the old meaning of park still survived, there were lots of city parks for kids to play in by 1924-25. Typographically, that odd habit of spreading out the first line of text on a page when it's the last line of a paragraph reappears in LOST KING. (I remarked on it earlier in GLINDA.) Some examples: 83, 88, 94, 138, 150, 177, and 191. It seems to be there to defining the "text box." On the other hand, that spread seems optional since pages 105, 146, and 196 don't show it. Another typesetting anomaly appears on page 171, where the ever-careful Reilly & Lee used brackets appear instead of parentheses. Finally, some words to live by from LOST KING: "Immediately Rosa Merry, Kinda Jolly and all the rest rushed into the kitchen to see for themselves how gone everything was." [39] Kabumpo after meeting Humpy: "Excuse me until I mash that idiot." [168] Humpy, bouncing on Kabumpo's back: "So this is fun? Ah, how fast I am learning." [171] Finally, I noted the "King, King, double King" chant [268], which first appeared in a poem Thompson wrote for her Philadelphia newspaper, re-published in an issue of OZ-STORY. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Feb 00 13:21:35 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things TYLER: >How goes the search for Hugh Pendexter? I've hit a dead end. The address in the Club directory is the same as the one we had, so I don't know where to go from here. However, I did find that Alibris has *one* copy of the book, if anyone here is willing to pay $38 bucks for it: http://www.alibris.com/cgi-bin/texis/searcher/+CewScdeODAdwwwwwBmeYE+fvwwwwe3hw wwwwwwf_m5/details.html TO THE HARRY POTTER FANS (SPOILERS FOR THE THIRD BOOK AHEAD!): For those who have read _Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban_, is there anyone else who thinks Sirius Black may be hiding in Oz? He says he's somewhere "the Dementors have no hope of finding me", and I doubt the Dementors could cross the Deadly Desert. J.K. Rowling also said in a recent interview that Sirius is "Somewhere nice and warm", which could be Oz, which I imagine as being fairly warm, surrounded as it is by that desert. However, if Ozma *is* sheltering Sirius but doesn't want to tell anyone, not even me, I of course understand... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 11 - 14, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:49:45 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things The WWW: The WWW is also brought back to life in Donald Abbot's 'Father Goose in Oz' Nathan: >Oddly enough, both _Lost Princess_ and _Glinda_ indicate that nothing can >hurt Dorothy while she's wearing the Belt, yet that doesn't seem to hold >true in other books (or maybe just for other wearers). If it did, would >Dorothy have been able to steal the Belt in the first place, and would >Roquat have had any reason to fear the eggs that the Scarecrow threw at him? > Similarly, in _Gnome King_, Ruggedo is physically injured numerous times >while wearing the Belt. (In fact, if the Belt had protected him from >physical harm, he would probably have succeeded in sending the important >Ozites to the bottom of the ocean.) I suppose one possibility is that it's >really the GWN's kiss, and not the Belt, that protects Dorothy from harm, >but wouldn't Glinda have realized this, even if Dorothy and Ozma hadn't? Perhaps Dorothy made a 'wish' that nothing could harm her, as long as SHE is wearing the belt? As for the GWN's kiss, this brings up another question. DOES her magic kiss have ANY effect AFTER she was disenchanted? BTW, isn't it strange that Dot failed to tell Pigasus that the Good Witch of the North was actually Queen Orin under an enchantment, and so the spell may have worn off due to Tattypoo's DISenchantment? >But it might not have been deadly at the time. Mombi (in Griffin form) >walks on the desert in _Land_ without turning to dust. I prefer to believe that the desert in _Land_, was a desert WITHIN Oz/The Quadling Country. The Scarecrow also states that the 'Land of Oz is small in extent', but I think he was talking about the Emerald City/Green Country, because Dot said 'This must be the Land of Oz', as she approached the Greenland in _Wizard_. Tyler: >Baum described Ozma as being 14 or 15. However, many people feel that is far >too old, and that she must be between 8 and 12 at the very most. That's >physiologically, of course. Personally, I prefer to believe that Ozma is between 14-17. Ofcourse, RPT makes her look like a 'tiny little fairy girl'... John Bell: >There's no such evidence I can think of. (I theorize Lurline delivered the >Magic Picture to Ozma after her ascension to the throne, but that's >extra-canonical.) In _Shaggy Man_, Ozma tells Shaggy and the others that she used her OWN magic to create the Magic Picture... Dave: >I've hit a dead end. The address in the Club directory is the >same as the one we had, so I don't know where to go from here. >However, I did find that Alibris has *one* copy of the book, if >anyone here is willing to pay $38 bucks for it: > >http://www.alibris.com/cgi-bin/texis/searcher/+CewScdeODAdwwwwwBmeYE+fvwww we3hw >wwwwwwf_m5/details.html There are also SEVERAL copies at the Amazon.com Zshops, at reasonable prices, too. ~Gehan~ *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Western People Funny, Western People Funny, Western People Funny, Of that there is no doubt They feel so sentimental, about the Oriental, they always try to turn us Upside down and inside out -- 'Western People Funny' (The King and I) *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= ====================================================================== From: "Arlem" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-2000 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:05:12 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" Oz and the Three Witches: I've hit a dead end. The address in the Club directory is the same as the one we had, so I don't know where to go from here. However, I did find that Alibris has *one* copy of the book, if anyone here is willing to pay $38 bucks for it: I managed to find a copy for $20 in one of those online used book searches. In fact I recieved it (turned out to be inscribed by the author too) and read it today. I enjoyed it thoroughly and for me, it finally cleared up the mystery of Oz's involvement in Mombi's abduction of Ozma just fine. In fact I'm going to try and find more of Hugh's Oz books now. And speaking of online book searches, I also found two of March Laumer's that way (Good Witch and Ten Woodman) and rather inexpensive as well. Once I receive/read them I'll know if I want to try and find the rest of them. My own Oz book, the one that's been percolating in my head these last few years since i discovered Oz, is finally starting to emerge on paper, but 'tis too soon to say more. But I must say, all the things I've read in the Digest since I've been lurking in it have been an enormous help, so a thank you is in order. arlem ====================================================================== Received: (from darth-bane@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EYH6WHBW; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:49:37 EST Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:51:13 -0800 Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-2000 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: darth-bane@juno.com Where should OZ lie ?( IF IT WAS ON EARTH ) >I have been baffling myself <> I agree with the parallel Earth idea if only because of things like Denslow's Scarecrow and Tinman, and Queer Visitors from the Land of Oz. The Earth dwellers had no strange reaction to an animated scarecrow, a walking man of tin, or a talking lion! And certainly the adventures of Trot and Cap'n Bill seem to support this idea as well what with mermaids and an island in the sky. It's an Earth similar to ours, but one that's a lot less harsh and a bit more magical. ====================================================================== Received: (from darth-bane@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EYH9JN8G; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:35:35 EST Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:12:02 -0800 Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-2000 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: darth-bane@juno.com <> Hmmm... That seems to jibe well with Dorothy of Oz. Thanks, BTW, to everyone for answering my questions. If anyone happens to have any spare Laumer books they'd like to sell, send me an email... ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:13:26 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: the professor charset=ISO-8859-1 David Godwin wrote: << >Maybe the rules are different >for insects, though. It would seem so, but what of woggle bugs? One of them was capable of becoming thoroughly educated while crawling around a school room. . . . although, with only four limbs, the Woggle Bug is not, strictly speaking, an insect at all.>> I imagine the Wogglebug to be immensely embarrassed by his relatives, none of whom share his ambition or hunger for learning. There's no sign he ever goes back to visit them, or even writes. How can you keep a boy down in the farm after he's seen the Emerald City? To complicate the question of whether he's an insect, the Wogglebug shows up in QUEER VISITORS and his own book with six limbs--not simply in the illustrations but in Baum's texts! Arlem wrote: <> Glinda does indeed state that, but can we be sure it's true? It's still a very unsettled time in Oz, with the Emerald City conquered, Mombi returning to full-fledged witchcraft, and the rightful ruler of the entire kingdom lost. Glinda's speaking to a potential rival to that ruler, the Scarecrow (he keeps hinting that he should retake his throne). Why wouldn't she conceal the exact source of her extensive knowledge in order to protect it? Lest we think that such an incomplete truth would be out of character, let's remember that Glinda doesn't even tell Dorothy about the Book of Records until the end of EMERALD CITY. She must know about little conflicts all over Oz, but she doesn't seem to tell Ozma, who'd be troubled by them. When Glinda thinks a certain action is the right thing to do, such as cutting Oz off from the Outside World or banishing the Oogaboo army, she does it without consulting others who'd be affected. I think it would be quite in her character to keep her own counsel on unveiling the Great Book of Records until she's certain it's safe. Tyler Jones wrote: <> I'm not sure Pastoria's ineffectuality necessarily means his reign was brief. There are plenty of dynasties, reigns, and government administrations that leave little mark despite lasting a long time. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:37:23 GMT Gehan: >Hmmm.....I've always thought that everyone had the right to pick their >PERMANANT age since the time Queen Lurline enchanted Oz. I don't believe >that it was AFTER Ozma's accession, from the evidence given in 'Tinwoodman >of Oz', and I also don't believe that Ozma is powerful enough to do such a >thing..... But maybe Lurline cast a spell that wouldn't take full effect until Ozma took the throne. Death certainly seemed to exist in Oz as it appeared in the first two books, and wouldn't those have occurred after Lurline's enchantment? >Eric Gjovaag told me that L. Frank Baum was a Methodist. >Is this true? I don't think he was ever a practicing Christian, but I believe he did attend some church functions, and they might have been at a Methodist church. I don't know. > >SUPPOSEDLY, what year did DOROTHY FIRST go to OZ ? How old was she ? > >She FIRST visited Oz in 1899 according to the HAAC, but I prefer to believe >that it was somewhere between 1896-1897. Assuming that Baum received the story after it happened (which would probably make the most sense), it probably happened before 1899, which was when it was written. It's difficult to determine for sure, though. Stephen Teller; > > where did " LURLINE " get powers to transform a land " OZ " into >ENCHANTMENT > > ? > > EX: with magic, etc .... > > >See Marcus Mebes LURLINE AND THE WHITE RAVENS OF OZ. Although Mebes himself makes clear that this story is a myth, and might not be entirely accurate. Indeed, the story has several apparent inconsistencies (such as when Apollo shows Lurline both the fall of Troy and the wise men travelling to Bethlehem in quick succession; these events would have actually been over a millennium apart). Unknown Writer: > >I think the Munchkins made it into a museum or National shrine. > >If they did, it was after Roger Baum's Dorothy in Oz, where Dorothy and >friends return there to discover the house haunted by the spirit of the >WWE. That wouldn't be too difficult, as _Dorothy_ takes place before Dorothy comes to live in Oz (although Roger Baum seems to make a mistake in giving the dragons from _Tin Woodman_ a new home within the book, since it would have taken place before Woot encountered them). Of course, this is assuming that you accept Roger Baum's books at all. While _Dorothy_ seemed all right, I've heard that his SillyOZbul books are pretty stupid, and _The Lion of Oz and the Badge of Courage_ sounds historically difficult. Tyler: >Despite all of my griping about the "All Powerful Belt", it really is not >used for much else besides transformation and transportation. Baum >indicated >that it could only grant one wish per day, and I'm not sure if RPT actually >broke that rule. It's also specified, however, that transformations do not fall under this "one wish" rule. I am not sure if transportation does or not. J. L. Bell (I think): >AFAIK, The Deadly Desert has no history. It may not have been lethal until >about the time Ozma took the throne, but the desert, in and of itself, has >rarely impinged on Oz history except for the problems of crossing it. An >exception is _The Braided Man of Oz_, wherein we meet a tribe of Robots >living in the desert. The Heelers (from _Wonder City_) and the Flame Folk (from _Shaggy Man_) also live there. Jack Snow also indicates that salamanders (see _Magical Mimics_) and scorpions (see _Who's Who_) can survive in the desert. According to Chris Dulabone's _The Deadly Desert Around Oz_, there are Dust Devils living there as well. Then there's _Scalawagons_, in which it is not entirely clear whether the Mifkits live IN the desert or just beyond it. Seems like the desert, deadly as it may be, might have a somewhat sizeable population. >We don't know anything at all about Mombi's history. She apparantly was >around for at least a century before the Wizard arrived, but that's all. >She's just a wicked old woman who studied magic. Note that Payes's _Wicked Witch_ indicates that Singra is a cousin of both the WWW and the WWE, but there is no hint as to whether or not Mombi is also related to this clan. >Many >times that Book is said to be one of the most magical items in Oz, >recording every event in the world. However, in practice the Book's >limitations become quite evident. Its reports are terse and far from >complete. The nature of those accounts is probably to blame for Glinda not >noticing: >* Pajuka's quest for his master, even though she'd presumably recognize the >former Prime Minister's name. [Accepting Ruggedo's claim that the Book >doesn't record animals' doings would, however, explain that oversight.] Although that claim seems to be contradicted by the fact that it mentions the Cowardly Lion that cat's own book. Besides, Ruggedo is probably relying on second-hand information in _Magic_, since I don't think he actually sees the Record Book until _Handy Mandy_ (when it's in Wutz's cavern). > Such magical interference allows the Great Book of Records exist >before LAND. I could even argue that for Mombi to have included such >protection from the Book in her transformation, the Book had to exist back >then. Unless Mombi just cast the spell to block information magic in general. >Yet in this case Lurline seems to have been aware of Pastoria's change and >imprisonment but did nothing to release him or inform his daughter of his >whereabouts. Didn't Lurline give Pastoria his butterfly ears when she found she couldn't break Mombi's enchantment? This is also interesting because it means that Mombi was capable of casting spells that even the powerful Fairy Queen couldn't break. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Received: from du44132.str.ptd.net (HELO cheerful.com) (204.186.44.132) by mail.ptd.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2000 23:23:09 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:20:43 -0500 From: "Lisa M. Mastroberte" Subject: Ozzy Matters Gehan: <> I think was LFB was talking about was the almost fascination with the devil. Other religions, such as Wicca, don't believe in the devil. Around the turn of the century, there was a growing interest in the occult, and Baum got caught up with it. Baum believed what he believed ... I don't know exactly what he meant. Speculation, anyone? And I thought he was a Protestant. Lisa Marie: >Where should OZ lie ?( IF IT WAS ON EARTH ) >I have been baffling myself I doubt if it should be on Earth, or another planet, even. MOPPET (AURGH! I now am joining the MOPPET crew! ;]) is that it's not a parallel dimension, perse, but it exists in your own imagination, in your own world. Oz is the place where we all want to be--but we quite can't. ~Lisa -- "Every man is the painter and sculptor of his own life." - S. John Chrysostom (+407) ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:35:28 EST Subject: Oz OzMinistration: If I wish to inform the Club about a change of Address, who/where do I write to? Gehan: Yes. In Chapter 12 of _Tin Woodman_, Baum states squarely that the minute Lurline enchanted Oz, death and aging stopped. Yet, in that same book, Woot wonders why the Tin Woodman was not killed when his axe chopped him. Assuming the Lurline effect was instantaneous and complete, Woot would have been alive at that time, presumably for over a century, so why was he unaware that nobody could die anymore? In _Patchwork Girl_, Pipt refers to Ojo growing up someday, something that should have been impossible. Throughout the series, there is plenty of evidence that there was death, and some evidence that there was aging prior to Ozma's ascension. THe best answer that I have heard so far is that the enchantment did NOT take effect instantly, but was slowly gathering in power over time and culminated with Ozma's ascension to the throne. Many of you: Note that my date of occurence for _Wizard_ is off by one. I believe that it takes place in 1898. I just haven't changed it yet. Steve Teller: > There is no definitive Oz encyclopedia. But, by the gods, there someday WILL BE!!! :-) Nathan: I'm not sure we can equate Dorothy taking the Magic Belt off of the Nome King as harm. It's social harm, but the Belt may only recognize physical harm, although it does not apparantly do even that. Searching for Hugh Pendexter: Hmmm, maybe a general Internet search or a Us West Dex search or something may reveal more info. As a last resort, I could write up a "VERY" extensive scholarly analysis of the book and post it to my web site. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 18:18:09 -0500 (EST) From: cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-2000 > What does Christianity have to do with the devil? Christians don't BELIEVE > IN/WORSHIP the devil, they aren't voodoos.....I wonder what L. Frank Baum > was talking about. Eric Gjovaag told me that L. Frank Baum was a Methodist. > Is this true? Michael O. Riley's book said that in the teens he attended an Episcopalian church. > I believe that Ozma's look-alike WAS really Ozma. I don't know how to > explain it, but I feel she somehow managed to TEMPORARILY escape Mombi's > magic mirror in order to help Dot come and rescue Oz. Lisa Mastroberte also > prefers that theory. As you may see, there are TONS of loose-ends in RTOZ...... I thought the theory trapped her in the mirror but gave her access to the outside world, but lacking in magical abilities, while retaining her immortality, hence not drowning). Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 08:39:31 -0500 From: Wally Subject: March Laumer and the Ozzy Digest Dear Dave, I'm sorry to have to advise you and the Ozzy Digest readers that March Laumer passed away in his sleep on February 12, in Sweden. I spoke to him daily during his final ten days and his strength and spirit, right to the end, amazed me. You may wish to publish the following obituary in your next issue. In this regard I'd very much appreciate once again being placed on the subscription list. Very best regards, Wally Hubbard March (Marsh) Laumer,77, was born on August 17, 1923 in Birmingham, Alabama. He moved to Florida when he was a teenager and went to school in St. Petersburg. He died January 12, 2000 after a short illness, in Lund, Sweden and was interred there. He was the author of numerous OZ and fantasy books and essays. He graduated from The University of Missouri. He was a world traveller, who taught in Hong Kong where he published books under his Vanitas and Opium Books Presses. He also taught in Turkey and elsewhere. He was a linguist and philatelist and a great writer of letters. He was raised in Florida where his father, Army Air Corps Major William F. Laumer invested in land in the late 1940's and also published a book about wines with the help of March. He served in the Marine Corps on Iwo Jima in World War II as an interpreter for Japanese prisoners. March had two younger brothers, Keith and Frank, who were also writers. Keith, his middle brother, made a name for himself as a well-known science-fiction and mystery writer. Frank, his youngest brother, is an historian who published MASSACRE and DADE'S LAST COMMAND, about the Florida Seminole Indian Wars. He initiated re-enactments of Dade's battle and is a land developer. March spent much of his life between Lund, Sweden, where he had a residence, and Florida, where his family still live. His home was last in Largo, Florida. March's OZ books were especially loved by his many readers. He at one time completed an OZ story started by his brother Keith called "Beenie in OZ". He also edited and completed THE GREEN DOLPHIN OF OZ, an unfinished excert by L. Frank Baum and others. March also translated all of the Alexander Volkov , Russian OZ books and published THE WOODEN SOLDIERS OF OZ. March is survived by his mother, Virginia and brother, Frank and family of Dade City, Florida and many friends. Some of his beloved books are still available. The matter of distribution of his works is still under consideration. In the interim any questions in this regard may be addressed to Wallace Hubbard at Wallyhubbard@earthlink.net All four published Laumers are represented in The Clearwater(Florida) Public Library System's catalog as well as other libraries. ====================================================================== From: Dougwmson@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:36:16 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-2000 COMMENT TO DAVE K AND LISA M To Dave K and Lisa M: The earliest historical reference to a "witch" that I know of, is the "Witch of Endor" whom King Saul consulted. The reference in the Bible where this is found is: 1st Kings, Chapter 28. You will have to figure out your own time frame. Doug ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 01:35:41 EST Subject: (no subject) ozmonthly@onelist.com, OzDigest@mindspring.com, Ozoholic@aol.com, TheBBugle@aol.com, AnnieMOz@aol.com, DeeJway@aol.com, lizard222@earthlink.net, CruentiDei@cs.com, TWOOZ@aol.com, noemoore@ameritech.net, DaveH47@mindspring.com, TylerJ@apprentice.com, Ozisus@aol.com Who actually OWNS the 1939 movie WIZARD OF OZ ? Just curious ! Lisa ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones WIZARDOFOZ2000@onelist.com, ozmonthly@onelist.com, OzDigest@mindspring.com, Ozoholic@aol.com, TheBBugle@aol.com, AnnieMOz@aol.com, DeeJway@aol.com, lizard222@earthlink.net, CruentiDei@cs.com, TWOOZ@aol.com, noemoore@ameritech.net, DaveH47@mindspring.com, Tyler Jones , Ozisus@aol.com Subject: RE: (no subject) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:49:35 -0700 charset="iso-8859-1" Eric Gjovaag is probably better positioned than I am to answer this, but I'm about 95% sure that MGM still owns it. After all, their casino in Vegas is themed around the movie. If you ever get a chance, visit it. It's pretty cool. I am 4% sure that Disney owns it, and 1% sure that somebody else might. Tyler Jones -----Original Message----- From: SeraMary@aol.com [mailto:SeraMary@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, 13 February, 2000 11:36 PM ozmonthly@onelist.com; OzDigest@mindspring.com; Ozoholic@aol.com; TheBBugle@aol.com; AnnieMOz@aol.com; DeeJway@aol.com; lizard222@earthlink.net; CruentiDei@cs.com; TWOOZ@aol.com; noemoore@ameritech.net; DaveH47@mindspring.com; TylerJ@apprentice.com; Ozisus@aol.com Subject: (no subject) Who actually OWNS the 1939 movie WIZARD OF OZ ? Just curious ! Lisa ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Feb 00 13:21:09 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things All flags in Oz are at half-mast today, for the passing this weekend of March Laumer and Charles M. Schulz. (Charlie Brown and his collegues have been kids for fifty years, so I have always assumed that they live in Oz...) -- Dave ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 15 - 20, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 23:20:52 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: wearing a bulletproof Belt Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> Not I, alas. I all-cap my titles and eschew most Internet acronyms. Nathan DeHoff asked about the Magic Belt's putative protective powers: <> I agree with Tyler Jones that the physical protection conferred by the Magic Belt needn't extend to a little girl slipping open its catch, however harmful that becomes to the Nome King's interests. As for the eggs, Nomes' tremendous fear of them may well prevent Roquat from thinking straight. (His chamberlain's bravery in sopping up the eggs *without* having the Magic Belt's protection is noteworthy. Perhaps he donned thick rubber gloves.) More difficult to explain is why the Magic Belt doesn't prevent Roquat from all injury when the Sawhorse kicks him across his throne room. The Nome King ends up "considerably bruised" and "limping." But perhaps the answer is that the Belt protects him from the much worse injuries he'd ordinarily suffer from being kicked twice by a gold-shod wooden creature into a wall of armored soldiers. In other words, the Belt saves its wearer from serious harm, but Baum's report that it prevents *all* injury is an overstatement, just like his blanket statements on the Barrier of Invisibility, the Water of Oblivion, etc. That accords with what we see in LOST PRINCESS, a book more explicit about the Belt's protective powers: Dorothy never gets hurt while wearing the Belt, but she does get knocked around in the Merry-Go-Round Mountains and Ugu's upending castle. As for the attacks Ruggedo suffers in GNOME KING, Peter throws a lot of hard things at Ruggedo, but doesn't seem to damage the Nome as much as distract him. The Silence Stone stops Ruggedo, but even being beaned by a rock thrown by a champion schoolboy pitcher doesn't *physically* injure the Nome. Again, the Belt seems to be conferring life-saving protection, but it doesn't prevent all harm. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> A very good point! In this time of Pokemon and other card-fighting games, it's important for us to remember that battles aren't always won by the side that looks stronger on paper. Otherwise, all magical duels would be reduced to a form of rock/paper/scissors with no rock. Lisa asked: <> The rights became an asset of Ted Turner's corporation when he bought the MGM film library. He sold his company to Time Warner, becoming that corporation's largest stockholder. That's why MGM WIZARD trinkets are available in Warner Bros. stores. Time Warner is in turn being sold to America Online. If that deal goes through, the rights to the movie will be owned by AOL/Time Warner. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:40:17 EST Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-2000 I have been reading these DIGESTs many times. Everyone writing about Religion, Location, plus other things too...... But, besides all of that, My concern for OZ is if there are any RECENT books that can or cannot be found in libraries. Religion and that talk can only go SO far, then another topic gets all the attention. Libraries DO hold alot of information on OZ, but, they is SO MUCH MORE that cannot be found even IN a library AT ALL. I appreciate EVERYONE writing and telling me about the questions I have asked. I have another question : Where do the rest of BAUM's descendants reside ? Are they contactable thru AOL ? ANY THOUGHTS ? email me or the digest ! Lisa Marie SeraMary@aol.com THANKS ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:55:12 -0600 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08 thru 14-2000 I've got to get back to responding to Digests more promptly; three of them again! 2/8: Mike T.: *Congratulations!* Nathan: >Perhaps the Wizard just meant that politicians liked long names, not that >the specific names had anything to do with politics. But is there any tradition of politicians liking long names? I don't remember any such, even back in the 19th century. >Along those same lines, it's interesting that Dorothy seems to immediately >recognize Mombi, even though they had never met in previous FF books. Interesting indeed. I suppose there might have been pictures of Mombi around in some of Ozma's scrapbooks or the like, but it does cast doubt on my suggestion that Mombi looked different enough that Ozma didn't immediately recognize her. Tyler: >********** SPOILER FOR OJO IN OZ ********** >David Hulan: >As I recall, Ozma effectively destroyed Mooj. >********** END OF SPOILER ********** ********** SPOILER FOR OJO IN OZ ********** That's a question that was brought up a few years ago on the Digest with inconclusive results. Is transforming a person into a drop of water destroying him, any more than transforming him into a dove or a jug or a cactus? Could that drop of water be transformed back into Mooj? Will it stay as a unified drop of water, or will its molecules disperse throughout the Nonestic? ********** END OF SPOILER ********** Without being sure about it, I suspect that _Scarecrow_ is a combination of two story lines that Baum originally wrote separately. I think he started another Trot and Cap'n Bill story after _Sky Island_, before he was persuaded to start writing more Oz books, and the first half (roughly) of _Scarecrow_ is that story. He'd also written the script for _His Majesty, the Scarecrow of Oz_, which he made into a not very successful movie. Being a thrifty sort, and needing another book at a time when he was busy with film projects (and trying to get some other books "in the bank" because of his failing health), he grafted these two partial stories together, and as you note, sometimes the joints show. All three Oz books in the 1914-16 period were reworkings of earlier work he'd done, which is probably why he had enough spare time to write the first drafts of _Magic_ and _Glinda_ then. >This mirrors the rule of thumb of captains and away team mission in >_STNG_. Which was probably introduced because one of the biggest criticisms of the original Star Trek was that the captain of a starship shouldn't be going personally into possibly hostile situations. David G.: I've never heard of that dramatic version of _Wizard_, but it sounds potentially amusing. Lisa Marie: >How was it that a shooting star sent from the SCARECROW, brought down a key >from OZ, if DOROTHY's crate she slept in brought her to OZ by SEA ? I don't think one can conclude that was a sea; I think it was just a flood in Kansas with a magical transition to a flooded part of Oz. In the book _Ozma of Oz_ Dorothy was washed off a ship in the Pacific, which would put her on the sea, but Kansas is about as far from the nearest sea as you can get in the United States, and there's no way a flood would carry Dorothy to salt water overnight. >I found it weird that TOTO was BROWN, not BLACK like in the 1939 film ! ( i >know RTO was a video sequel WOZ and MLOZ BOOKS ) Toto is also black in the 1900 book. >What is POSSIBLY the DEFINITIVE OZ SEQUEL ? There's no single one; the whole Famous Forty (or thirty-nine, if you're not counting the first book) "canonical" Oz books form a major series. >Where should OZ lie ?( IF IT WAS ON EARTH ) >I have been baffling myself The fact that no location on Earth fits well with more than one Oz book is my reason for believing that Oz is not on Earth. If it is, it's somewhere on Earth that's only reachable by magic, which as far as I'm concerned is a distinction without a difference. Taking the various books in which a character goes from a known location to Oz without explicit magical intervention: Wizard - since the tornado blew Dorothy from Kansas to Oz in around 12 hours, and tornadoes don't travel more than 60-100 mph, Oz is somewhere in North America. If it traveled the direction most tornadoes do, it's probably somewhere in Wisconsin, Michigan, or Ontario. Ozma - Dorothy is washed off a ship in the Pacific somewhere (between California and Australia) and ends up on the Ozian continent within 12 hours, so Oz is somewhere in the Pacific. Tik-Tok - pretty much the same as above, except that we don't really know where Betsy's ship was when she was washed overboard; Oz is somewhere in an ocean that's not intolerably cold, but it could be the Atlantic, Pacific, or Indian Ocean. Scarecrow - Trot and Cap'n Bill are sucked into a whirlpool off California. At that point I think we have to conclude that when they return to consciousness they're in a magical country, because the physics doesn't work out for them to walk through a long tunnel under the sea and emerge in the middle of an island. So this one doesn't tell us anything about the location of Oz even though there's no explicit magic. Grampa - Bill the weather-cock is animated by lightning somewhere near Chicago and flies overnight to Oz. This would put Oz somewhere in North America, since there's no evidence that Bill can fly faster than a normal bird, 20-30 mph max, or that the storm has winds more than 40-50 mph to boost him along. Gnome King - Peter is flown by a balloon bird from Philadelphia to an island in the Nonestic that's not far from the Ozian continent, during the time he can hang onto the balloon's string. This would put Oz somewhere in the Atlantic off New Jersey. Giant Horse - Benny falls into an excavation in Boston, breaks through the bottom, and finds that he's broken through the sky of Oz over the green territory. This would put Oz somewhere underground below New England. Yellow Knight - Speedy's stop in Subterranea takes away all indication of direction, so no real evidence here. Pirates - Peter is washed overboard off Cape Hatteras and swims to Octagon Island, which isn't far from the Ozian continent. This puts Oz somewhere in the Atlantic off North Carolina. Wonder City - Jenny's jump is magical enough that it probably doesn't apply. Lucky Bucky - Bucky is blown in a ballistic trajectory from New York harbor to an island near the Ozian continent, without getting high enough to develop anoxia. This would put Oz within a few miles of New York City. Hidden Valley - Jam is blown on his kite from somewhere in Ohio to the middle of Oz overnight. This would put Oz somewhere in North America, or just possibly, if the wind was really fast, in the North Atlantic or the Gulf of Mexico depending on direction. So out of nine transitions that give some clue as to where Oz is, three put it in North America somewhere, three in the Atlantic, one in the Pacific, one in an indeterminate ocean, and one underground. Nevertheless, most people who place Oz on our Earth seem to favor the Pacific, probably because there definitely seems to be an ocean to the west of the Ozian continent (in a number of books without transitions from known territories as well as the ones mentioned) and there doesn't seem to be anywhere in North America or the western Atlantic that a land as extensive as Oz and its surrounding countries could be located without its being obvious. >where did " LURLINE " get powers to transform a land " OZ " into ENCHANTMENT? Although it's not in the Oz books, fairies seem (in _Queen Zixi of Ix_ especially, and to a lesser degree in _Life and Adventures of Santa Claus_, both of which are tied into the Oz books in _Road_) to have enormous powers, especially their queen. Fairy powers appear to be inherent rather than learned. >SUPPOSEDLY, what year did DOROTHY FIRST go to OZ ? How old was she ? Most people think _Wizard_ took place in 1898, but some put it as early as 1893. Those of us who stick to the Famous Forty for information think she was about eight; Tyler and others who want to fit in a lot of non-canonical books make her five or six. >is DOROTHY BLONDE or BROWN HAIRED ? There's no information in the texts of the Famous Forty on her hair color; Denslow's color illustrations show her with reddish-brown hair, but Neill and later artists show her blonde. >What NEWER OZ books can tell me this INFO, THAT I CAN FIND in a LIBRARY or >something relative to it ? All of Baum's books should be available in a good library. Thompson's first two and last four books, Neill's three, Snow's two, and the McGraws' one are available from Books of Wonder. Most of the Thompsons and _Hidden Valley_ are available from the IWOC. _Yellow Knight_, _Pirates_, _Purple Prince_, and _Ojo_ are generally only available second hand these days. >What is the definitive OZ BOOK anyone could EVER want ? _The Glass Cat of Oz_. (Just kidding; it's the one that I wrote. Many people have liked it, but it's hardly definitive, nor can I imagine any single book as being "definitive" for such a wide-ranging fairyland.) >how old SHOULD OZMA really be ? Baum says 14 or 15, physically, at the time of _Tin Woodman_. My belief is that she allowed herself to age somewhat during the course of the series, since she's said to be about Dorothy's age (tennish) at the time of _Ozma_, and from the way she acts I'd estimate she got up to 18-20 before she stopped aging entirely. But that's definitely one person's opinion. Dave: >EUDORA: >I know this isn't Ozzy but I don't know who else to ask -- Does anyone >here use EudoraPro 4.2 as their E-mailer? If you do, do you know why it's >such a memory glutton? I start it, and my available system resources plummet >by 30 - 40%! Even my 3D animation packages don't guzzle that much! I use Eudora Light 3.1.11 for Macintosh, and it uses only 1.1 Mb. I don't know about Eudora Pro or Windoze versions of Eudora Light (or anything else). 2/10: Gehan: >Hmmm.....I've always thought that everyone had the right to pick their >PERMANANT age since the time Queen Lurline enchanted Oz. I don't believe >that it was AFTER Ozma's accession, from the evidence given in 'Tinwoodman >of Oz', and I also don't believe that Ozma is powerful enough to do such a >thing..... I don't think Ozma produced the non-aging spell herself, but that Lurline's spell was set such that it didn't take full effect (including the non-aging aspect) until after Ozma took the throne. It's true that this contradicts Baum's statement in _Tin Woodman_, but note that his whole statement about Oz was preceded by "...I am told." Most likely, judging by his prefaces, his source was Dorothy, and she may not have known the real facts. We do know that in _Wizard_ the Wizard himself had aged considerably during his time in Oz, that Nick Chopper's mother had died not too long before the events of that book, and that Glinda's apparent youth was considered remarkable. If everyone in Oz had stopped aging a long time before that, it seems unlikely that Glinda's youth would cause comment (even if she were, say, 1000 years old and most other Ozites were only a few hundred). Also, we don't really know when Lurline enchanted Oz. Magic works in many of the countries around Oz that weren't enchanted by Lurline, so the fact that magic worked in Oz before Dorothy doesn't mean it had a special enchantment then. Doug: >I have been using all caps for over 15 years with no complaints. >Probably since it is much easier to read but does take up more space. 15 years ago computer displays (except on Macs) were such that it probably was easier to read all-caps. I'm surprised that you've had no complaints in the last 8-10 years, though; I've seen complaints about it many times in that time frame. All caps is _not_ easier to read, though; there have been plenty of studies that have shown that for messages of any length (and I'm talking about more than a couple of lines) cap/lc is much easier to read than all caps. Why do you think lower-case letters were invented in the first place (by the ancient Greeks, if not earlier)? _Oz and Beyond_ is definitely a book anyone interested in the world of Oz should read, I agree. Nathan: >Well, unless Eureka really DID become pink in between _Dorothy and the >Wizard_ and _Patchwork Girl_, in which case she might have something magical >about her. I think it much more likely that something magical happened to Eureka than that she had some magical power of her own. If _Eureka in Oz_ ever gets published I have a possible explanation of it... >Placing Oz in the South Pacific would be consistent with almost every >incident in the FF, except for the time Peter fell in the water off Cape >Hatteras and swam to Oz. Not really. See my rundown in my response to Lisa earlier in this post. The South Pacific is really only consistent with _Ozma_ and _Tik-Tok_; it's inconsistent with _Wizard_, _Grampa_, _Gnome King_, _Giant Horse_, _Pirates_, _Lucky Bucky_, and _Hidden Valley_, unless you add unmentioned magic in on all of the latter. J.L.: Point well taken about the GBR's inability to penetrate Mombi's spells in _Lost King_, which negates the inference that she didn't have it as of _Land_. I still think she'd have mentioned it then, if she had no reservations about mentioning it in _Emerald City_, but maybe, as you say in a later post, she wasn't all that confident of the Scarecrow's loyalty in _Land_ and thus didn't reveal all her resources to him. >My point was that a "Fairy Godmother" traditionally protects a >person and watches out for her interest [as Robin Olderman sees Glinda >doing for Ozma]. That implies Lurline would be looking after the princess. >Yet in this case Lurline seems to have been aware of Pastoria's change and >imprisonment but did nothing to release him or inform his daughter of his >whereabouts. It's at least arguable that Lurline let Pastoria languish in Blankenburg for some years in order to let Ozma establish herself on the throne and in the hearts of her people before arranging his release (which would explain much better than Snip's generous heart why Tora was suddenly able to leave). It doesn't seem that Tora was abused or otherwise mistreated in Blankenburg, except for being kept there; Lurline did arrange his mobile ears to alleviate his probable boredom, which would have been the main problem. Lurline did, after all, want Ozma on the throne of Oz, and producing someone with a better claim to the throne early in her reign might well have led to the kind of controversy Oz didn't need. "King, King, double King" is an expression I can remember hearing playing checkers when I was a kid, and I suspect it came from that rather than being original with Thompson. I believe Neill uses it in _Lucky Bucky_ as well, when Bucky and Jack Pott are playing checkers, though I haven't checked. 2/14: Gehan: >As for the GWN's kiss, this brings up another question. >DOES her magic kiss have ANY effect AFTER she was disenchanted? Apparently so; it seems to protect Dorothy against Gloma's magic in _Wishing Horse_, and this book definitely takes place after Tattypoo's disenchantment. On the other hand, there's the argument that the GWN Dorothy meets isn't Tattypoo. Lots of ambiguity there. >I'm not sure Pastoria's ineffectuality necessarily means his reign was >brief. There are plenty of dynasties, reigns, and government >administrations that leave little mark despite lasting a long time. While it's not really true that they left little mark, some of the longer reigns in English history owed little of their historical significance to the king himself. Henry III and George III are probably the two most prominent examples. (One could add Victoria, but by her time the monarch pretty much reigned but didn't rule - though she had more influence than, say, Elizabeth II.) And Pastoria's reign apparently left the mark that the witches came to rule Oz, which is a considerable mark even if it wasn't one that Pastoria would have taken pride in, something like the origins of Parlaiment under Henry III. Nathan: >It's also specified, however, that transformations do not fall under this >"one wish" rule. I am not sure if transportation does or not. Apparently not, since Ozma does a lot of transportations in rapid succession near the end of EC when she sends all the invaders to their respective homelands. Dorothy doesn't seem to know this, though, or she could have simply transported her party out of Ugu's castle instead of using a wish to turn it right side up. But Dorothy's knowledge of magic seems pretty sketchy, and her memory of what worked in the past is also vague. Tyler: >OzMinistration: >If I wish to inform the Club about a change of Address, who/where do I write >to? Write to the club office in Kalamazoo. I don't have the address at my fingertips, but it's on most Club publications; if you can't find it (and someone like Peter or Jane or Robin doesn't give it on the Digest), e-mail me privately and I'll look it up. Doug: >The earliest historical reference to a "witch" that I know of, is the "Witch >of Endor" whom King Saul consulted. The reference to the woman of Endor as a "witch" is not in the Bible itself, but IIRC first appears in the running heads of the King James version, where it says, "Saul seeketh a witch." In the text, the woman of Endor is "a woman with a familiar spirit" - what we'd call today a medium or a channeler, not a witch. (This is in the English translation; I haven't checked the Hebrew to see exactly what it says, assuming I could figure it out. I'll leave that to Mike T. or Gili or Aaron or someone else better at Hebrew than I am.) Caught up again! Now if I can just keep it that way for a while, you won't have to put up with these incredibly long posts of mine... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 16:31:20 -0600 Subject: Oz, Witches, HPL, and Permissions From: "David Godwin" Doug wrote: >The earliest historical reference to a "witch" that I know of, is the "Witch >of Endor" whom King Saul consulted. The reference in the Bible where this is >found is: >1st Kings, Chapter 28. Actually, it's 1st Samuel, ch. 28. Also, the Bible itself doesn't call her a "witch," but only "a woman that hath a familiar spirit." You might even say she was a medium or a "channel." Actually, the earliest reference to a witch in the Bible is in Exodus in the infamous directive, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." However, I'm sure there are Greek references to witches that antedate Exodus by centuries. I'm not sufficiently acquainted with the Sumerian _Gilgamesh_ epic to say whether it mentions witches or not, but it wouldn't surprise me. Oz & Lovecraft Redux: Regular readers of this list may recall that, last September, I noted certain similarities between the typical Oz book and H. P. Lovecraft's _Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath_. The general reaction to this observation was typified by J. L. Bell's comment that "A quest with unconnected adventures is such a simple plotline that it shows up in a lot of forms." Well, I recently acquired a number of back issues of the Lovecraft fan magazine, _Crypt of Cthulhu_, that I had missed. One of them, Vol. 17, No. 2, Whole No. 98, "Eastertide 1998," contains an article by the editor, Robert M. Price, entitled "The Dream Quest of Brian Lumley." It appears that, however askew my observation may have been, I am not alone in making it. Bear in mind that I never saw this issue of _Crypt_ or read this article before last week. Price says: "It appears that _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ was itself a source for _The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath_. Carter tries to reach his once-glimpsed Sunset City, just as Dorothy tries to reach the Emerald City. Both make acquaintance of various tribes of wondrous creatures along the way. The zoogs might even be viewed as Lovecraft's Munchkins. And in both cases there is a final scene of revelation in which the protagonist is informed that the ethereal object of his/her quest is in reality just the dream-version of the familiar and beloved homestead back in the waking world, to which the hero/ine at once returns. Glinda or Nyarlathotep, what's the difference?" Of course, it is pretty evident that Price had the MGM film in mind, which is the only version in which the dream motif is emphasized, and Dorothy's quest, as we all know, is not the Emerald City, but rather to get back to Kansas. Also, my comparison did not mention the dream theme, which is central to Price's discourse. Nevertheless, "great minds..." Actually, I suppose all this is simply a manifestation of the fact that one tends to make connections among the things that one is interested in, perhaps to the exclusion of a wider, more inclusive view. Lurking Lovecraftians may wish to consult http://www.necropress.com for information about the periodicals _Crypt of Cthulhu_ and the more sedate _Lovecraft Studies_. Lisa (SeraMary@aol.com) wrote: >Who actually OWNS the 1939 movie WIZARD OF OZ ? Just curious ! I have been told, and I believe it to be true, that Turner Entertainment now owns the rights to the MGM movie. I have discovered that anyone wishing to use material from the MGM film, such as clips or stills, should contact Judith Singer, Vice President of Licensing, Theatrical Legal, Warner Bros. (Time/Warner is owned by Turner), 4000 Warner Blvd., Bldg. 11, Burbank CA 91522. A call to 818-954-2298 will get you a recorded message. Ms. Singer's fax number is 818-954-3817. The recording says that the standard licensing fee is $5,000 per clip or $200 to $600 per still. Also, I have been informed by Ms. Singer that "as a general policy, Warner Bros. does not license material for use on the cover of non-Time/Warner publications..." Understandably, the _Baum Bugle_ seems to be an exception to this restriction. - David G. ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-2000 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 23:15:07 GMT Gehan: >Perhaps Dorothy made a 'wish' that nothing could harm her, as long as SHE >is >wearing the belt? That's a possibility. I hadn't really thought of that. In fact, there's a precedent for it, since Roquat uses it to protect himself from the Cowardly Lion in _Ozma_. I suppose he didn't have time to operate that feature when making his hurried wish in _Gnome King_. >As for the GWN's kiss, this brings up another question. >DOES her magic kiss have ANY effect AFTER she was disenchanted? It must, since it protects her from harm in _Wishing Horse_. In fact, that's the ONLY time after _Wizard_ that the kiss was mentioned. >BTW, isn't >it strange that Dot failed to tell Pigasus that the Good Witch of the North >was actually Queen Orin under an enchantment, and so the spell may have >worn >off due to Tattypoo's DISenchantment? I guess she didn't think it was relevant to the situation. Besides, there's a good chance that Pigasus already knew the story of Orin, since he had been living in Oz for some time by that point. >Personally, I prefer to believe that Ozma is between 14-17. Ofcourse, RPT >makes her look like a 'tiny little fairy girl'... Aside from the statement that Ozma is "just a little girl fairy after all," in which people seem to place far too much stock, I don't think Thompson portrays her as acting any younger than Baum did. Darth-Bane: >I agree with the parallel Earth idea if only because of things like >Denslow's Scarecrow and Tinman, and Queer Visitors from the Land of Oz. Well, those stories don't really fit into the Oz canon, anyway. If they take place on an alternate Earth, they're probably also characters from an alternate Oz. Lisa: >I think was LFB was talking about was the almost fascination with the >devil. Other religions, such as Wicca, don't believe in the devil. >Around the turn of the century, there was a growing interest in the >occult, and Baum got caught up with it. Baum believed what he believed >... I don't know exactly what he meant. Speculation, anyone? > >And I thought he was a Protestant. Well, if he was baptised by a Protestant church, that's enough for some people to consider him a Protestant for life, even if he didn't believe the church's teachings. Doug: >The earliest historical reference to a "witch" that I know of, is the >"Witch >of Endor" whom King Saul consulted. The reference in the Bible where this >is >found is: >1st Kings, Chapter 28. You will have to figure out your own time frame. The reign of Saul probably took place around the end of the eleventh century BC, and the book was probably actually written a few centuries after that. The problem is that that's a translation. I don't know Hebrew, but I'm pretty sure our word "witch" does not exist in that language, so it was most likely the work of the translator. If it's a King James Bible, the translation was done in the seventeenth century AD, and there might have already been witches in other English literature by that time. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:44:47 -0800 From: "Peter E. Hanff" Subject: The Magazine of the Library of Congress, Civilization, February/March 2000 Dear Dave, Don't know whether you've been flooded with the following, but Ozzy Digest readers will find the new issue of LC's Civilization worth seeking out. It has a good article with excellent illustrations by Nicholas von Hoffman: "Flimflam Land: Long before Harry Potter, another wizard held thrall," pp. 32-35. The article highlights the Library of Congress special exhibition on Oz that opens April 22. The article is illustrated with photographs of the first edition of The Wonderful Wizard, a still from the MGM movie of 1939, the lion's mane from the 1939 film, a photo of Frank Morgan sitting with Shirley Temple, and a color poster from the 1902 musical extravaganza. The author reveals the wide types of writing Baum produced during his lifetime, including a list of various pseudonyms under which Baum wrote. Information about the magazine, Civilization, is available on the Web at: Civmag.com Correspondence should be addressed to Civilization, 575 Lexington Ave., New York, NY 10022 As Justin Schiller used to say, Good Ozzing! Peter ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:23:05 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-2000 John Bell: > > Finding Pastoria would seem to be a mission near the top of > Glinda's to-do list--at the very least, she wouldn't let an opportunity to > do it pass by [unless she were even more devious than I'd credit]. Glinda > would therefore be alert to the names of Pajuka and Mombi and any other > clues to the lost king's whereabouts. Yet she never finds anything (or at > least anything she tells Ozma about). I can see the Book's reports to be > vague and unhelpful most of the time, but *all* of the time between its > first page and the end of LOST KING? Glinda's lack of clues seems to imply > some magical interference built into Mombi's original spells. Perhaps she needs a nice filtering mechanism, like e-mail programs, to flag mentions of particular names she is searching for in a different color. My fourth son, whose bris was on the 10th, is named Yehuda Chaim Mendel Turniansky, for all who care, BTW. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 22:59:29 EST Subject: Oz Oz and the Three Witches: Here's something interesting: An e-text version of this book is on my computer. Even better, it's been there for THREE YEARS!!! I wonder if it would be safe to simply post it to my website until such a time as Pendexter, his publisher (Pen Press), his estate or his attorney advise me not to? After all, it was published 23 years ago, and had at most a minor release. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:32:01 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-2000 Doug asserts: > > The earliest historical reference to a "witch" that I know of, is the "Witch > of Endor" whom King Saul consulted. The reference in the Bible where this is > found is: > 1st Kings, Chapter 28. You will have to figure out your own time frame. > But they must have been around before then. See Exodus 22:17 (22:18 in Xtian Bibles). --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== From: Tigerbooks@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 12:53:40 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-2000 Dear All, I'd like to point out to those who've been recently talking about when people in Oz stopped aging that Baum states unequivocally in TIN WOODMAN OF OZ that aging stopped at the exact moment that Lurline forgot about Oz. When that moment was and whether Lurline had anything directly to do with the cessation of aging is certainly up for debate, but PARADOX IN OZ by Edward Einhorn goes a long way toward revealing the history of the aging enchantment. Eric Shanower ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 21 - 23, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: "Gili Bar-Hillel" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-20-2000 Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:22:12 PST Nathan - "witch" does exist in biblical Hebrew: "machshefa". But Saul consulted with a "ba'alat ov", a woman whose specific involvment in magic is raising the spirits of the dead. I'm sure there are one or two people on this list who can provide an even better answer than I! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 02:46:52 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-20-2000 David Hulan: I like your encapsulation of the location references for Oz. << All caps is _not_ easier to read, though; there have been plenty of studies that have shown that for messages of any length (and I'm talking about more than a couple of lines) cap/lc is much easier to read than all caps. >> Generally speaking, capping a whole message or even a word is considered screaming nowadays. It is definitely not easier to read a capitalized word than one in upper and lower case or all in lc. What I've been taught in my education classes, as well as personal experience, supports David's claim entirely. I tend to overlook posts done in caps. I s'pose that means I'm risking missing something, but I find them so irritating that I'm willing to take that risk. ...guess I'm gettin' cranky in my old age.... First use of "witch": <> Interesting. Makes me wonder if James himself had anything to do with that part of the translation, since he was fascinated by witches and considered himself an expert on the subject. Or, if not James, the translation may simple reflect the Elizbethan/Jacobian beliefs. Are the running heads part of the original translation? The _OED_ gives 1659 as the earliest appearance of the word "witch," but it's not used then as "magic worker." Odd. Tyler: Here's the address for IWOC. Sorry I didn't get it to Dave in time for the 2-20 Digest. The International Wizard of Oz Club P.O. Box 266 Kalamazoo, Michigan 49004-0266 Shaggy: <> Mazel tov! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:27:34 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things David (Hulan): >So out of nine transitions that give some clue as to where Oz is, three put >it in North America somewhere, three in the Atlantic, one in the Pacific, >one in an indeterminate ocean, and one underground. Nevertheless, most >people who place Oz on our Earth seem to favor the Pacific, probably >because there definitely seems to be an ocean to the west of the Ozian >continent (in a number of books without transitions from known territories >as well as the ones mentioned) and there doesn't seem to be anywhere in >North America or the western Atlantic that a land as extensive as Oz and >its surrounding countries could be located without its being obvious. Well, my own MOPPET is that Dot, Trot, Betsy, Peter, Bill the Weathercock, Benny, Speedy, Jenny Jump, Lucky Bucky e.t.c live in a parrerel earth, which is linked to yet ANOTHER fairy dimension where all the magical countries are located...including Oz. I believe that the parrerel earth-people can get to Oz or the other countries by means of 'magic portals/invisible dimension gates' or tornados, whirlpools, storms, earth-quakes e.t.c... >Baum says 14 or 15, physically, at the time of _Tin Woodman_. My belief is >that she allowed herself to age somewhat during the course of the series, >since she's said to be about Dorothy's age (tennish) at the time of _Ozma_, >and from the way she acts I'd estimate she got up to 18-20 before she >stopped aging entirely. But that's definitely one person's opinion. Hmmm...I like that iedia better than the 'Ozma can alter her age because she is a fairy' iedia. She appears to be around 8-13 in 'Land' and 'Ozma' and around 14-17 in later books. In 'Magical Mimics', Jack Snow states that fairies don't usually age beyond 14-17, which means that Ozma undoubtedly aged untill she reached her mid-teens...Ofcourse, Chris Dulabone believes that Ozma is only 6-8, and that she alters her age whenever she's handling difficult situations, but I don't like THAT iedia... >I don't think Ozma produced the non-aging spell herself, but that Lurline's >spell was set such that it didn't take full effect (including the non-aging >aspect) until after Ozma took the throne. It's true that this contradicts >Baum's statement in _Tin Woodman_, but note that his whole statement about >Oz was preceded by "...I am told." Most likely, judging by his prefaces, >his source was Dorothy, and she may not have known the real facts. We do >know that in _Wizard_ the Wizard himself had aged considerably during his >time in Oz, that Nick Chopper's mother had died not too long before the >events of that book, and that Glinda's apparent youth was considered >remarkable. If everyone in Oz had stopped aging a long time before that, it >seems unlikely that Glinda's youth would cause comment (even if she were, >say, 1000 years old and most other Ozites were only a few hundred). I never thought of THAT, which is also Tyler's theory. So it would seem as if the spell WAS there even BEFORE Ozma's accension, yet it didn't take FULL effect untill then. Ofcourse, Nick Chopper's mother could have died due to an accident, and as for the Wizard growing old, I also like to match the following iedia with that : Supposing an Ozite wanted to stop aging when he/she was eighteen, then he/she had to wish so on his/her eighteenth birthday, after blowing all the candles on his/her birthday cake. We can assume that everybody forgot to tell the Wizard this, and so he grew older and older like ordinary people. As for Glinda's youth considered remarkable, perhaps she has been in Oz even BEFORE Queen Lurline enchanted it and cast the non-aging spell, and so people considered her rather 'unique'... And then there's another question. If all the countries SURROUNDING Oz are magical, how come OZ wasn't magical, and Lurline had to ENCHANT it in order for it to BE magical? Unless LURLINE enchanted the surrounding countries too, but that seems highly unlikely. Perhaps it DID have a CERTAIN amount of magic, yet it was mostly 'humdrum' (rather like Skampavia), and so Lurline decided to make it a COMPLETE fairy land... The Good Witch of the North's kiss: Ofcourse, I go along with Dave's 'Locasta' theory, which would mean that the kiss on Dot's forhead was LOCASTA'S and NOT Tattypoo's... ~Gehan~ *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Western People Funny, Western People Funny, Western People Funny, Of that there is no doubt They feel so sentimental, about the Oriental, they always try to turn us Upside down and inside out They think they civilize us Whenever they advise us To learn to make the same mistakes That they are making too! -- 'Western People Funny' (The King and I) *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:00:16 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Library of Congress and Copyright Office charset=ISO-8859-1 Two footnotes to Peter Hanff's message about the Oz article in the Feb/Mar 2000 issue of CIVILIZATION: 1) It says "the Library's resident Oz-ologist and the specialist who is curating the exhibit" has the nice Nonestican name of Frank J. Evina. 2) This magazine didn't give the full dates of the Library of Congress's exhibit of "a wide variety of books, artifacts, illustrations, motion pictures, recordings, and commercial gimcracks related to the land of Oz--not to mention the Cowardly Lion's wig." But the new BAUM BUGLE says it will run from 24 April to 23 September. That BUGLE, the last of the 1900s, is the first I recall being thick enough to have a spine. There's quite a variety of articles contributing to that length, including pieces on Baum family members, SANTA CLAUS, La Jolla as inspiration for the Trot stories, and FATHER GOOSE. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Dorothy tends to be a realist and more oriented to acting than to planning, so I doubt she'd think through the implications of Orin's disenchantment until she'd felt effects from that change. Which she never did. David Hulan wrote: <> Indeed, the implication of YEW, SANTA CLAUS (as I recall it), and some casual comments in ROAD and the Trot books is that magic worked openly in the entire world before civilizing, and that it still works in our Outside World in ways people don't perceive. Oz's special magical properties compared to its neighbors (or, in each case, to at least some of them) seem to be: a) immortality. b) talking animals. c) a generally higher proportion of odd creatures in the population, though this may be due to the immortality. d) protection by the Deadly Desert. David Hulan wrote: <> Interesting possibility. It presents Lurline as even more Machiavellian than my image of Glinda! David Hulan wrote: <<"King, King, double King" is an expression I can remember hearing playing checkers when I was a kid, and I suspect it came from that rather than being original with Thompson.>> That makes sense. Thompson would therefore have been playing off the expression in two separate directions in LOST KING and her newspaper writing. David Godwin wrote: << >1st Kings, Chapter 28. Actually, it's 1st Samuel, ch. 28. Also, the Bible itself doesn't call her a "witch," but only "a woman that hath a familiar spirit.">> Different translations of the Bible call this book by different names, but it's the same passage. Does anyone know if the William Tyndale translation of the Bible, the first in English, used the term "witch" to describe the channeler of Endor? Tyndale's Bible was suppressed by Henry VIII and then replaced by James I, but it produced many of the English phrases we recognize as Biblical. Yehuda Turniansky's dad wrote of Glinda and her Book of Records: <> KABUMPO says all news about Oz appears in red. Not many Oz fans seem to have accepted that statement from Thompson, however. Einhorn's new PARADOX IN OZ says Glinda's developed some sort of speed-reading method to spot what's important to her. That seems more her style. One important question of Glinda's relationship to the Great Book of Records is whether she created it or obtained it. Characteristically, Glinda never says one way or the other; she just tells Dorothy that she has it. If Glinda created the Book sometime between LAND and EMERALD CITY, then she might presumably continue to fine-tune it with red-letter days and the like; its qualities and power might change from one story to the next. If, on the other hand, Glinda obtained this extremely magical object from some other source, she'd probably have to adapt to its quirks and resist the urge to experiment with it. As we see with the Magic Belt, users must discover a magical tool's power and work within its limitations. (That said, the Wizard is said to make occasional adjustments to that other extremely magical object, the Magic Picture--see OZMAPOLITAN.) Tyler Jones wrote of OZ AND THE THREE WITCHES: <> I don't know about "safe," but I don't think this would be right. It would be like taking Mr. Pendexter's family silver until he sent someone to ask for it back. There's no necessity argument to justify such taking--no one's at risk for not having this text available, and efforts to contact Mr. Pendexter may have taken place over a long time but they haven't appeared exhaustive. I understand your eagerness to share the story of this book, which is an interesting stab at explaining Ozma and Glinda's acceptance of the Wizard despite his sordid past. But I think you can do that without infringing on the copyright (either by distributing the entire book or by rephrasing the whole thing). The passages which concern the question of the Wizard's welcome are just one part of OZ AND THE THREE WITCHES, and can be summarized in the context of a review or a discussion of whether this solution is really the best. The actual storytelling is not the book's strong point, anyway. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-20-2000 Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 23:43:19 GMT David Hulan: >If everyone in Oz had stopped aging a long time before that, it >seems unlikely that Glinda's youth would cause comment (even if she were, >say, 1000 years old and most other Ozites were only a few hundred). Speaking of ages, one thing that might be interesting is to find all of the specific references (and maybe even a few non-specific ones) to ages and years in the FF, and see if any conclusions can be drawn from that. Here are a few that I can think of off the top of my head: Ojo is ten in _Ojo_, I think, but he was presumably born during Ozma's reign. Since I doubt there were ten years in between _Land_ and _Patchwork Girl_ (basing this mostly on the ages of Dorothy and Button-Bright in various books), he probably did some aging after coming to live just outside the Emerald City. Sir Hokus is sometimes said to be seven centuries old, but the length of his imprisonment in Pokes is given as 500 years (or maybe 490, since there were about ten years in between _Royal Book_ and _Yellow Knight_, in which the figure was given). If this is exact, it means that Corum did not undertake his first adventure or look for a bride until he was 200 years old, which seems like it would be a bit odd even in a land where everyone lives forever (and I think there's a good chance Corumbia and its neighbors experienced the full force of Lurline's enchantment before much of Oz did, since I think the Sultan of Samandra is also about 700 years old). According to _Kabumpo_, the Elegant Elephant was given to Pompus at the time of Pompadore's christening. In _Purple Prince_, Pompus received the elephant "Oz ages ago." Of course, we don't know how long an Oz age is, but it's probably a fairly long amount of time. Besides, no matter how you look at it, Pompadore was born before Ozma's ascension to the throne; he's lived for at least 27 years by the time of _Kabumpo_ (that figure being based on the fact that the book starts on his tenth eighteenth birthday). In _Purple Prince_, Randy and Kabumpo determine that Randy looks about ten, but he's actually about twenty. In _Giant Horse_, Trot and Philador say they've been ten years old for some time. In _Grampa_, Peer Haps cries "in spite of his sixty years." Sixty years would probably have been considered pretty old in the Great Outside World back in the twenties, but I guess the Peer would have been a young 'un if he had lived in Samandra. In _Wonder City_, there's a baker's boy who's been missing for several centuries. When Number Nine finds him, he discovers that the "boy" has aged, but not died. The Town Crier also states that he's been in office for about eight hundred years, I think. Well, that's just a beginning. I'm sure I'll think of some more later. I'm still not entirely sure what I'm going to do with these ages, but maybe they'll help determine a few things about aging and death in Oz. Shaggy: > Perhaps she needs a nice filtering mechanism, like e-mail programs, to >flag >mentions of particular names she is searching for in a different color. Actually, such a mechanism (or, more accurately, spell) is used in Eric Gjovaag and Karyl Carlson's _Queen Ann in Oz_, when Glinda is looking for mentions of Oogaboo. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:31:39 -0500 From: "John W. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-20-2000 J. L. Bell wrote: > A very good point! In this time of Pokemon and other card-fighting games, > it's important for us to remember that battles aren't always won by the > side that looks stronger on paper. To be fair, that's just as true of the collectable card games, including Pokmon. (Note, too, that the cards are a spin-off -- the real Pokmon is the surprisingly sophisticated GameBoy game.) After all, Bridge is hardly a question of who has the highest cards, and the rank of conventional cards is strictly linear. David Hulan wrote: > But is there any tradition of politicians liking long names? I don't > remember any such, even back in the 19th century. In the sense parodied by Baum, no. But I suspect that having more than two names was regarded as distinctly snooty at the time. (It still is, in England, where relatively few people have middle names.) There may also have been some memory of Roman traditions, and of the impression that hyphenated names gave before they became a device of feminism. > >SUPPOSEDLY, what year did DOROTHY FIRST go to OZ ? How old was she ? > > Most people think _Wizard_ took place in 1898, but some put it as early as > 1893. Those of us who stick to the Famous Forty for information think she > was about eight; Tyler and others who want to fit in a lot of non-canonical > books make her five or six. Others have gone for the lower age without that reason -- see the Annotated Wizard of Oz. > Doug: > >I have been using all caps for over 15 years with no complaints. > >Probably since it is much easier to read but does take up more space. > > Why do you think lower-case letters were invented in the > first place (by the ancient Greeks, if not earlier)? Not so. Lower-case letters are a medieval development, and the regular use of mixed case came later still. But it is true that mixed case is proven easier to read (and serif type easier than sans-serif). > ====================================================================== > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 16:31:20 -0600 > Subject: Oz, Witches, HPL, and Permissions > From: "David Godwin" > > Doug wrote: > >The earliest historical reference to a "witch" that I know of, is the "Witch > >of Endor" whom King Saul consulted. The reference in the Bible where this is > >found is: > >1st Kings, Chapter 28. > > Actually, it's 1st Samuel, ch. 28. Also, the Bible itself doesn't call her a > "witch," but only "a woman that hath a familiar spirit." You might even say > she was a medium or a "channel." Actually, the earliest reference to a witch > in the Bible is in Exodus in the infamous directive, "Thou shalt not suffer > a witch to live." However, I'm sure there are Greek references to witches > that antedate Exodus by centuries. I'm not sufficiently acquainted with the > Sumerian _Gilgamesh_ epic to say whether it mentions witches or not, but it > wouldn't surprise me. Belief in witches is found in all cultures, at all times. -- -John W. Kennedy -rri0189@ibm.net Compact is becoming contract Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:52:06 -0600 From: Stephen Teller Subject: Ozzy Stuff > ********** SPOILER FOR OJO IN OZ ********** > That's a question that was brought up a few years ago on the Digest with > inconclusive results. Is transforming a person into a drop of water > destroying him, any more than transforming him into a dove or a jug or a > cactus? Could that drop of water be transformed back into Mooj? Will it > stay as a unified drop of water, or will its molecules disperse throughout > the Nonestic? > ********** END OF SPOILER ********** > Robin Hess wrote a book, TOTO AND ALL THE CATS OF OZ, in which a cat thrown into (I believe) San Francisco Bay comes out declaring his name as "Joom" and leading a revolution of cats against Ozma and the Oz establishment. It becomes clear that "Joom" is "Mooj" who has inhabited the poor cat's body. Steve T. ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 00:47:47 EST Subject: Oz Spoiler for some book: IMHO, if somebody (you know who I mean!) gets turned into a drop of water in the ocean, its various molecules will disperse with the rest and the person will effectively be destroyed. If it's a normal drop of water, it would be indistinguishable from every other drop of water and intermixing could not be avoided. All caps: I know that on the ancient Apple ]['s, there was no direct lower case capability, so EVERYTHING HAD TO BE IN UPPER-CASE. You could get lower-case, but had to access ASCII directly. When the Apple ][e computer came out, I was impressed by its massive memory (64K of RAM) and the fact that it upper and lower case characters. I'm also suprised by the lack of comments about typing in all upper-case. I've seen a number of comments about this on this and other mailing lists. For the last several years, all caps has been taken to mean shouting, and it's almost universal. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:15:49 -0600 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-20-2000 J.L.: >Nathan DeHoff asked about the Magic Belt's putative protective powers: ><would Roquat have had any reason to fear the eggs that the Scarecrow threw >at him?>> > >I agree with Tyler Jones that the physical protection conferred by the >Magic Belt needn't extend to a little girl slipping open its catch, however >harmful that becomes to the Nome King's interests. If this is the case then the Magic Belt must not be as powerful in its protective spell as the pink pearl in _Rinkitink_ - although since it's Rinkitink who says that nobody could take the pearl from him because it would protect him, and Rinkitink isn't noted for his intellectual achievements, maybe that's not true either. David G.: >Actually, the earliest reference to a witch >in the Bible is in Exodus in the infamous directive, "Thou shalt not suffer >a witch to live." Of course, there's the question of the translation of the Hebrew word; does m'khashepah (rough transliteration) convey the same nuances as the English "witch"? In the Septuagint the Greek word used to translate m'khashepah means "poisoner," and the translators who produced that version were probably more aware of how the writer intended the word than the translators of the King James version. >However, I'm sure there are Greek references to witches >that antedate Exodus by centuries. Well, possibly. But although the version of Exodus we have was probably put into its final form around 500 BCE, the material in it is for the most part considerably earlier in date; the injunction in question probably dates to at least the 9th century BCE, which is earlier than almost anything Greek that's survived. Tyler: I doubt if you'd get anything worse than a request to take it down if you posted "Oz and the Three Witches" on your Web site, assuming Pendexter ever found out about it and that he'd object if he did. It's not as if it has any real commercial value. But that's just my guess, so don't blame me if anything bad happens. :-) Eric: >I'd like to point out to those who've been recently talking about when people >in Oz stopped aging that Baum states unequivocally in TIN WOODMAN OF OZ that >aging stopped at the exact moment that Lurline forgot about Oz. Acknowledged, but as I have remarked, it's in the context of a discussion that begins with Baum saying "I am told," which means to me that he isn't 100% sure of his information. And a great many things happen both before and after the events of TW that contradict that statement. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:05:30 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Ozzy Captains, kings, and witches. David Hulan: > >This mirrors the rule of thumb of captains and away team mission in > >_STNG_. > > Which was probably introduced because one of the biggest criticisms of the > original Star Trek was that the captain of a starship shouldn't be going > personally into possibly hostile situations. > This never stopped Captain Ahab, either :-) David Godwin: > > > > Doug wrote: > >The earliest historical reference to a "witch" that I know of, is the "Witch > >of Endor" whom King Saul consulted. The reference in the Bible where this is > >found is: > >1st Kings, Chapter 28. > > Actually, it's 1st Samuel, ch. 28. Also, the Bible itself doesn't call her a > "witch," but only "a woman that hath a familiar spirit." You might even say > she was a medium or a "channel." Depends on which version of the Bible you read. The Douay (Catholic) version uses "1 Kings" and "2 Kings" for what most refer to as 1 Samuel and 2 Samuel, and "3 Kings" and "4 Kings" for what most refer to as 1 Kings and 2 Kings, a naming convention which I must say makes sense, since Samuel doesn't even survive the end of 1 Samuel... The Hebrew in Samuel is "ba'alat ov", which my translation has as necromancer, and literally would mean "mistress of necromancy (or ghosts)". This is not the same as in Exodus 22:17 (18) which is "machshefah", a witch or sorceress, from "chashaf", magic or charm. Necromancers are prohibited to be consulted in Lev. 20:6 (which uses the same word as Samuel) and Deut 18:11 (which talks about a consultant of the dead, in a parallel construction). --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:00:09 -0700 charset="iso-8859-1" David Hulan: Kudos to you for that very well detailed answer to "Where is Oz?", based on the FF. Most people indeed seem to place it in the South Pacific, since Oz is clearly surrounded by a sizeable warm ocean, and there's more room there than the South Atlantic for it to hide, or even the Indian Ocean. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Feb 00 16:03:29 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: cy in oz I've been offline a few weeks. Nice to be back on again. David Hulan: I don't remember Digby O'Dell, but it's Cy at the Door (Peter in the house) in "Jack Pumpkinhead." David Hulan & Nathan DeHoff: On the difference between "magic" and "natural" in origin as applied to dragons -- there are probably a couple of different meanings for "magic" origin. Magic could be there because of being puting in by a magic-worker, and the magic could be "born- in" magic. Dragons breathing fire and a Woozy shooting fire from his eyes both seem to be magic, but the oddity of the Woozy's shape and his apparent singularity make the idea that he was brought to life by some witch or wizard seem plausible. With dragons, their claim to immense antiquity, large numbers, and less-startling-form make it seem plausible that they absorbed the magic "natural" to the Oz universe, without needing to be created by anyone. David Godwin: The upcoming production you describe does sound odd. Could well be a local production. SeraMary: For thinking about writing Oz stories of your own, you can just go ahead with the background you have, and look around for someone who has read the whole series who would be willing to vet your story. It's probably a good idea to read the whole series yourself, though, or at least as much of it as your library can locate for you (probably most of it, courtesy of Interlibrary Loan). Tyler Jones: A footnote to your comment that Dorothy's hair is brown in "Wizard," and blonde thereafter -- that's as drawn by Denslow (light brown) and then by Neill (blonde). Baum didn't actually comment on the topic. Baum said in "Land" that Ozma had blonde hair, and Neill drew her that way there, but in "Ozma," Baum didn't happen to mention hair color for either girl, and Neill apparently forgot what had been said about Ozma, and happened to choose blonde for Dorothy, and (probably for contrast) black for Ozma. Neill stuck to those colors, and Baum went along with it by not mentioning either girl's hair color again. Thompson made several references in her books to Ozma's black hair. // And a footnote to your comment that you find you already have a processed text of Hugh Pendexter's "Oz and the Three Witches" and wonder if it would be a good idea to just go ahead and post it on your web-site without permission, since he apparently cannot be located to ask permission: yes, I should think you could just go ahead and do that. In the unlikely event that he gets found later and objects, it's hardly likely that his objection would be so strong that he would want any more reparations than just having you agree to take it off the Internet. (Or just possibly, he'd want to have the people who visited the site informed that he doesn't want it distributed, so maybe you'd want to set up some kind of mechanism for keeping track of who does, if you can arrange that.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Feb 00 13:01:23 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THE BOOK OF RECORDS: John Bell wrote: >KABUMPO says all news about Oz appears in red. Not many Oz fans seem to >have accepted that statement from Thompson, however. Einhorn's new PARADOX >IN OZ says Glinda's developed some sort of speed-reading method to spot >what's important to her. That seems more her style. In my work-in-progress (sequel to the Locasta book), Dan helps Glinda implement a Search Engine for the BoR. >One important question of Glinda's relationship to the Great Book >of Records is whether she created it or obtained it. If "Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs" can create a "Marauder's Map", then I have no doubt Glinda could "program" a BoR! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 24 - 28, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: JOdel@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 18:51:26 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-23-2000 Actually, it was Digger O'Dell. Not Digby. Understandably, it was on of my Dad's nicknames at work... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:41:38 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: parallelogram charset=ISO-8859-1 Gehan Cooray wrote: <> This leaves you with two big challenges: 1) How did L. Frank Baum and his successors on our Earth learn about Oz if Dorothy lived on a different Earth and in a different America? 2) How would you explain to a child reading an Oz book that only children in another dimension havd a chance of going to Oz? A third, less central philosophical challenge is that if there are two Earths with two Americas, why aren't there multiple Earths with multiple Ozzes, each different in large or small ways? And if so, where does one draw the line: a different Oz for each author, for each book, for each chapter? Does this mean multiple possible endings for each story, and if so why is one ending the "right" or "Ozzy" one? David Hulan wrote: <> If I were looking for protection, I'd certainly choose the Pink Pearl over the Magic Belt. That's not only because of the tests we've seen each subjected to, but also because I have more faith in a tool designed exactly for the purpose of protecting its bearer (i.e., me). The Magic Belt does so many things, but seems to have quirks in many areas. David Hulan wrote of the TIN WOODMAN account of Lurline enchanting Oz: <> Interesting observation. Baum might have been relaying a creation myth popular (or once popular) in Oz, not Oz history as Prof. Wogglebug would define it. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 03:34:50 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-23-2000 Dave Hulan:<< ...the Magic Belt must not be as powerful in its protective spell as the pink pearl in _Rinkitink_.... >> The pink pearl has a single charm/purpose. It protects. Period. The Magic Belt is a generalized "workhorse" of a magical implement. Perhaps its lack of focus, its broad range, limits its potency a bit for each of its functions. The price one pays for having such a handy- dandy do-it-all belt may be a diminution of its power for a specific job--as a sacrifice to giving greater power to the overall Belt???--Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:41:17 -0500 From: "John W. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-23-2000 Ozmama@aol.com wrote: > The _OED_ gives 1659 as the earliest appearance of the word "witch," > but it's not used then as "magic worker." Odd. Huh? The OED tracks the word back to the 9th century. And _belief_ in witches is as old and as widespread as humanity -- far older than the English language. Michael Turniansky wrote: > Depends on which version of the Bible you read. The Douay (Catholic) > version > uses "1 Kings" and "2 Kings" for what most refer to as 1 Samuel and 2 > Samuel, and > "3 Kings" and "4 Kings" for what most refer to as 1 Kings and 2 Kings, a naming > convention which I must say makes sense, since Samuel doesn't even survive > the end > of 1 Samuel... Yes, but "1&2 Samuel, 1&2 Kings" is the normal use nowadays, even in RC versions. (The Douay is pretty much a forgotten antique. The "1-4 Kings" titles derive from the Greek, which RCC tradition since Jerome has regarded only as a supplementary text to the Hebrew, though equally inspired -- Protestants and Jews, of course, do not use it at all.) -- -John W. Kennedy -rri0189@ibm.net Compact is becoming contract Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 23:46:41 EST Subject: Oz Gehan: Your MOPPET is similar to Dave's. Last time I checked, Dave's theory is that there is a parallel earth that actually has Oz on it in the Pacific. In this world there is also the parallel town of Santa Rosa, wherein resides, among other personages, a Beagle World War I flying ace. Gehan: The idea that Lurline's spell did not take full effect until Ozma ascended the throne did not originate with me. I believe Michael Patrick Hearn or perhaps Robert Pattrick came up with it first. Aaron Adelman and I extended it a bit, theorizing that it slowly took effect, perhaps being slower in some areas and faster in others due to magical dampening properties that are not evenly distributed. Also, I believe that Mombi's enchantment of Ozma threw a Winged Monkey wrench into the works. There's some mystery as to the actual effect of Lurline's enchantment. Some believe that there was no magic at all in Oz prior to the enchantment. That seems unlikely, though, for a number of reasons. It seems to me that the land was simply made more magical. Such things as deathlessness, non-aging, talking animals, and strange cities, creatures and plants are rare outside Oz. Yes, they are there in the other countries, but to a lesser extent than in Oz. I believe that Lurline enchanted only Oz, and thus made it more of a fairyland than the other countries in the area. John Bell made a similar statement in the last digest. For the record, I also support Dave's Locasta theory. Pendexter: Based on musings in the last digest, I've decided to forego posting the text of _Oz and the Three Witches_ on my website, at least for the time being. What I'll do instead is to write up and post a very extensive analysis of the story, which I believe is legal, since it's in the nature of scholarly pursuits. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-23-2000 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:54:11 GMT Gehan: >Well, my own MOPPET is that Dot, Trot, Betsy, Peter, Bill the Weathercock, >Benny, Speedy, Jenny Jump, Lucky Bucky e.t.c live in a parrerel earth, >which >is linked to yet ANOTHER fairy dimension where all the magical countries >are >located...including Oz. I believe that the parrerel earth-people can get to >Oz or the other countries by means of 'magic portals/invisible dimension >gates' or tornados, whirlpools, storms, earth-quakes e.t.c... Why couldn't these dimensional "gates" exist on our Earth, as well as on a parallel one? They'd just be rare enough that not very many people would notice them. >Ofcourse, Chris Dulabone believes >that Ozma is only 6-8, and that she alters her age whenever she's handling >difficult situations, but I don't like THAT iedia... Neither do I, and I see NO textual basis for it in the FF. I don't think Ozma ever acts that young, even in _Land_. (True, we don't see much of Ozma in that book, but I would imagine that Tip would have been about the same age, and he acts older than eight.) >If all the countries SURROUNDING Oz are >magical, how come OZ wasn't magical, and Lurline had to ENCHANT it in order >for it to BE magical? Unless LURLINE enchanted the surrounding countries >too, but that seems highly unlikely. Perhaps it DID have a CERTAIN amount >of >magic, yet it was mostly 'humdrum' (rather like Skampavia), and so Lurline >decided to make it a COMPLETE fairy land... I think that's most likely. Lurline didn't create all of the magic in Oz; she just added even more powerful magic to the land's composition. J. L. Bell: > Oz's special magical properties compared to its neighbors (or, in >each case, to at least some of them) seem to be: > a) immortality. > b) talking animals. > c) a generally higher proportion of odd creatures in the >population, though this may be due to the immortality. Not just animals, but also plants, especially the trees that produce useful items (although these trees do have counterparts in Mo and Ev). Ruth: >Tyler Jones: A footnote to your comment that Dorothy's hair is brown >in "Wizard," and blonde thereafter -- that's as drawn by Denslow (light >brown) and then by Neill (blonde). Baum didn't actually comment on >the topic. Baum said in "Land" that Ozma had blonde hair, and Neill >drew her that way there, but in "Ozma," Baum didn't happen to >mention hair color for either girl, and Neill apparently forgot what had >been said about Ozma, and happened to choose blonde for Dorothy, >and (probably for contrast) black for Ozma. Neill stuck to those colors, >and Baum went along with it by not mentioning either girl's hair color >again. Thompson made several references in her books to Ozma's >black hair. Isn't Dorothy mentioned as having blonde hair in _Hidden Valley_? Of course, that probably would have been based on the illustrations. The Size of Oz: Based on most estimates as to the size of Oz, does it really make sense to call the land mass on which it is located a "continent"? I'm not sure it would be big enough for such a designation (by our standards, anyway; maybe they're not as strict in Nonestica). Of course, when arriving at the land mass in _Scarecrow_, the Ork just says, "It's almost a continent," not that it IS a continent. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Feb 00 13:50:54 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: copies in oz J.L. Bell: Your comments on why Tyler Jones shouldn't post Hugh Pendexter's "Oz and the 3 Witches" on his Web-site without Pendexter's permission -- well, there's certainly a possibility for doing some (moral) damage if it should turn out that Pendexter in fact if asked would not want it distributed in that way. On the other hand, it doesn't really seem likely that he'd object if someone could locate him to ask. He liked it enough to distribute it himself in the first place at a price that probably did no more than cover his costs, so unless he has since become dissatisfied with it artistically, further distribution would probably be in line with what he wanted for it anyway. On the other hand, the potential of very wide distribution through a Web-site means that if by chance he did object, the Web form of distribution might be a considerable aggravating factor. Hey, Tyler, I wonder if a reasonable compromise might be to run off a paper-copy and make some photo-copies and let people get in touch with you for a copy (at a price to cover your costs). That way, it would be easy for you to keep track of how many copies are going where, and it would make reparations easier if it develops later that Pendexter really didn't want the story distributed further. (JL's suggestion of reviewing/summarizing the material as a non-copyright infringing alternative would be a possibility, but it would involve such lengthy quotation, either verbatim or in paraphrase, that it would probably have almost the same potential problems as copying the whole.) Dave Hardenbrook: Seems like about time to set a time to discuss next book ("Hungry Tiger")? Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:27:06 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-19-2000 This is mostly a message to express the fact of my continued existence. I am still trying to catch up on Digests missed when schoolwork took the upper hand . . . I did want to comment on the digest of 1-06: Re the Wizard and guilt: Isn't it nice to see he's human? Digest of 1/19: I persist in my belief that Glinda knew exactly what she was doing in not eliminating Mombi et al right away. She was waiting for Dorothy to come, so that Dorothy would have the opportunity. And I suppose so that she would have less work to do . . . no offense Glinda fans. As for witches and water: In my EMERALD RING OF OZ, I proposed a second kind of witch. One that, er, can't be melted . . . Digest of 1/24: Speaking of: The more evil a magic worker attains, the more likely it is he or she will cease to know witch way is up . . . Thompson and revivals: I still say it's not fair for her to transform people we know and respect into royalty all the time! Not that I don't respect royalty or anything . . . Oh, my foot tastes wonderful, don't worry. Re Mombi and melting: Dave Hardenbrook says, <> So she was just pretending to melt? Yikes . . . Until a later Ozzy time, Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/kivel99/ ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Feb 00 15:50:47 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OTHER OZZES: John Bell wrote: > 1) How did L. Frank Baum and his successors on our Earth learn >about Oz if Dorothy lived on a different Earth and in a different America? The Shaggy Man's telegraph is multi-dimensional. > 2) How would you explain to a child reading an Oz book that only >children in another dimension havd a chance of going to Oz? Show them episode 8 of _Cosmos_. > A third, less central philosophical challenge is that if there are >two Earths with two Americas, why aren't there multiple Earths with >multiple Ozzes, each different in large or small ways? _Paradox in Oz_ implies that this is the case. The picture of "our" (not necessarily *mine*) Ozma falling through a Galaxy of different Ozmas suggests a different universe for every book, illustrator, *and* movie! ( The picture even includes universes in which Ozma has a developed bosom! ;) ) >Does this mean multiple possible endings for each story[?] Yes. Even a universe in which Oz's rightful ruler is Ginny Weasley. ("Whaddaya mean I can't ever marry Harry Potter because Oz's ruler must remain a little girl forever???!!!") > ... and if so why is one ending the "right" or "Ozzy" one? This seems to be a question that has led to flame wars here in the past, so I'll pass... BCF: Ruth wrote: >Dave Hardenbrook: Seems like about time to set a time to discuss >next book ("Hungry Tiger")? You're probably right... I won't set a date yet, but everyone should start getting a hold of the book... -- Dave