] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DEC. 30, 1999 - JANUARY 2, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 Dec 99 14:35:29 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: flabbergas in oz J.L. Bell: "Scalawagons" doesn't say anything about whether the Wizard invented flabbergas or whether it already existed. I'll make a guess (based on the location of the Scalawagon factory in an otherwise uninhabited spot of Quadling country) that we're meant to assume that it already existed, but that no one figured out a way to use it until the Wizard happened across a flabbergas spring there and stopped to figure out a use for the flabbergasting substance. (By the way, checking a dictionary, I see "flabbergast" listed as of unknown origin and dating from 1772.) But if you want to write a story in which he invented it, or the peli-cans were using it earlier to preen themselves with and told him it was an interesting substance he should look at, or he read about it in the collected writings of Quadling witch Aunt Geranium, or whatever, it's up for grabs. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:47:44 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-29-99 John Kennedy: > As to "best fantasy", I'd want to re-view it, first, but, based on my > memories alone, I'd say "Krull", another film that doesn't get enough > respect. > Well, I am not usually moved to write out of disagreement, but I must say we are diamterically opposed here. Krull has the ignoble distinction of being the only movie I ever walked out of before the end. It was shown at my college, and my friends being in the audiovisual club, I got in free, so suffered no financial loss for so doing, but still, the fact remains I just couldn't stomach that movie. YMMV. Still your friend, tho --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:37:36 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things Hello from Oz! Tyler, John Bell and David(Hulan): No, what I meant was that if Ozma has existed since the beginning of time, Glinda must have existed even before Ozma, because Glinda is wiser and has more experiance. I didfnt mean that she SAW Ozma's mother giving birth to her or anything. David(Hulan):(On Princess Ozma) I havent seen ANY of those musicals you mentioned. As for your theory on Ozma.....Its like, the first few Baum Books seem to imply that Ozma is not a 'fairy', she was just an ordinary little girl, born to the late King Pastoria. But in later books, he implies that Ozma is a fairy who was with Queen Lurline when she first came to Oz and enchanted it. I dont accept Jack Snow's theory, since I dont accept his books in any case, but then in 'Merry Go Round in Oz', Ozma remembers spending time with the Fairy Unicorn, ages ago in the Forest of Burzee. Also, Thompson states in 'Kabumpo' that Ozma has lived for ALMOST thousand years. My guess is that Ozma IS the boilogical daughter of King Pastoria and his wife(who may have been a fairy queen), yet everyone THINKS she has existed for thousands of years simpyl because she's a fairy. True, she herself states in 'Glinda of Oz' that she WAS with Queen Lurline's fairy band when Queen Lurline first came and enchanted Oz, but my guess is that Princess Ozma was just repeating rumours or something..... Scott: Thanks for giving me the name of the actress who played Mombi I(I faintly remembered that her name started with 'S') Dave: I dunno.....I just like the Ozzy Digest far better than Tik-Tok-Talk for SOME strange reason. Probably because.....Oh I dont know.......I think that whoever thats criticising the Ozzy Digest is JUST doing it out fo jealousy and hatred.......Maybe the 'critics' have a personal grudge agaisnt some of the Digesters? Jean Marsh: Some Digesters said that Jean Marsh portrays Mombi more like Princess Langwidere or Queen Coo-ee-oh. I dont think thats true. Sophie Ward plays Mombi closer to Langwidere, but NOT Fiona Victory and Jean Marsh. Jean Marsh doesnt even LOOK like Coo-ee-oh, since Baum stated that Coo-ee-oh appears to be a young girl who's about 16-17 years of age.....and her personality is TOTALLY different..... Tyler: Your right. Chris Dulabone CAN get quite touchy at times, and get hurt without an actual reason. (I'm not bashing Chris, I'm just saying what I noticed about him). However, its a shame that Chris left sincee he was such a great, friendly Digester, and knew so much about Oz...... To Nathan on Del Rey Paperbakc: Your right.....Del Rey DID publish 'Yellow Knight' 'Pirates' 'Purple Prince' and 'Ojo'. I have the first nine Thompson books in Del Rey, and I've also ordered 'Pirates' and 'Purple Prince' in Del Rey paperback edition....... Untill next time! Ozzily yours, ~Gehan~ ==================================================================== Just been introduced, I do not know you well But when the music started something drew me to your side So many men and girls, all in each other's arms It made me think, we might be simmerlerly occupied. Shall we Dance? On a bright cloud of music shall we fly? Shall we dance? Shall we then say goodnight and mean goodbye? Or perchance, When the last little star has left the sky Shall we still be together, with our arms around each other, and shall you be my new romance? On the clear understanding, That this kind of thing can happen, Shall we Dance? Shall we Dance? Shall we Dance? -- 'Shall We Dance' (from 'King and I' - 1956) ==================================================================== ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 23:21:58 -0600 Subject: Ozzy Contradictions From: "David Godwin" Cognitive Dissonance, sort of: Musing at 65 mph on the freeway the other day (my Geo Metro won't quite make 70 without pulling a muscle), I began to wonder about a few things. We know that, at least during part of his career, L. Frank Baum was a Republican. He was also a man of his time, a true representative of the Gilded Age, a go-get-'em entrepreneur with an eye on the main chance and complete faith that hard work, imagination, and being in the right place at the right time to (a) perceptively notice and (b) aggressively take advantage of a golden opportunity would lead not only to financial security for oneself and one's family, but to immeasurable wealth. He was continually on the move - South Dakota, Chicago, California - looking for an opportunity that would finally pay off big time. We also continually read, starting with LFB himself, that Oz is intended to be a uniquely American fairyland, perhaps originally conceived as being in the middle of the Mojave. Okay, so here's the problem: Oz is a Marxist monarchy! Aside from such generalized concepts as "resourcefulness," for example, we don't really see many American values, such as Baum himself exemplified, until the books of John R. Neill. There is no democracy, and there are no elections before Jenny Jump comes along. Jenny is also the only obvious example I can recall of entrepreneurship; viz., her style shop. In Baum's books, most of the citizens of Oz are content to be farmers forever, with no drive, no ambition, no desire to better themselves. The few exceptions, such as Jinjur, are quickly put in their place. They are ruled by a benevolent despot, and the Emerald City has no trace of a parliament building. Even small communities are typically ruled by kings and/or queens. Not only is none of this particularly American, but it's also very unlike Baum's personal philosophy as expressed by most of his life. What gives? Did he really find the sort of life he led tedious and wearing, and did he find escape in his Oz stories? Did his opinions mellow and change over time? I just have trouble reconciling the apparent contradiction. Surely this has all been discussed and/or dealt with at some time or another? Dave H wrote: >What happened with our plan to write Hugh Pendexter and ask him to release >_Oz and the Three Witches_ to PD? Had someone volunteered to write him? Actually, I thought _you_ had. But maybe I just got that impression because ISTR that quite a few people just sort of seemed to _assume_ that you would be the one. I even seem to recall that you begged off for personal reasons or whatever but that you would take it up when things eased off a bit. Of course, I could be completely wrong. Gehan wrote: >I was wondering if SOMEONE could send me short summaries of March Laumer's >Oz Books, and would anyone by chance know where they are available? I contacted Mr. Laumer via e-mail last spring, at which time he said his books would be available when he returned to the US in October (I think it was), and he was kind enough to mail me a price list. Well, by the time October rolled around, he wasn't doing business anymore. So I don't know the answer to your question, but I wish I did, because there are a few I'd like to read myself. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:20:06 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-29-99 Best musical films? I agree that _The Wizard of Oz_ doesn't work as a musical. Films that do: _Singin' in the Rain_, _Jesus Christ Superstar_, _Tommy_, _The Wiz_, _Little Shop of Horrors_. I forgot to mention I want David Hyde Pierce to play Wogglebug in _Tip of Oz_. ============================================================================ ==== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Militaries are inherently the most corrupt organizations in the world, simply because their mission is to kill people and break things." ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:22:44 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: It's my birthday, and aging's on my mind charset=ISO-8859-1 Tyler Jones, I just tried visiting your site again, and still got "404" messages after clicking on the months for digests. (I hope you realize all this work we're asking from you just shows how much we appreciate you!) David Godwin wrote of: <> I'm not familiar with this title. I presume it's a take on Oz from an established science-fiction writer, an area of publishing I've never been able to keep in my head. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Perhaps what you're perceiving is Dorothy's greater knowledge of herself and Oz. Her actions don't necessarily require her to have more emotional or cognitive maturity. She might still be thinking like a typical ten-year-old, viewing the world as ten-year-olds see it, and having a ten-year-old's desires. In OZMA, for instance, it's clear that Dorothy's more confident than she was in WIZARD. She hasn't aged that much or become a whole lot more mature, but events worked out for her so well before that she's become more willing to defy grown-ups and take on adult tasks. Dorothy's still thinking like a little girl in OZMA, though. She has to be talked into seeing other points of view, for instance. We could have all sorts of fun with the discrepancy between chronological and developmental maturity in a land without aging. For instance, do the parents of an Ozian toddler suffer through sixty years of the terrible two's before they manage to get their child to grow up? Or does the choice to stop aging itself require a certain amount of maturity? When does a person who need never die enter midlife? In Number Nine's family, as I recall, boys stop aging at 12 and girls at 10. That would mean Nine's older sister Six is now two years younger than he. It would also mean he and his brothers are stuck forever at the emotional level of seventh-grade boys. Oh, the horror, the horror! J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:55:33 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-29-99 Amendments: > Wiz, Aysecik ve Sihirli Cuceler Ruyalar Ulkesinde, Volshebnik Izumrudnogo Goroda (1994) ^note spelling correction--stuck keys at the terminal I was using. > > > > Least Fav. Oz Book/s - Out of what I've read so far........The Road to > Oz, The Magic of Oz, The Cowardly Lion of Oz, How the Wizard Came to Oz, > The Braided Man of Oz, but the WORST was Ozma and the Wayward Wand (I have > Dorothy - Return to Oz, but it's unread.) and Dorothy of Oz > > > > Least Fav. Oz Author and why? - I haven't read past _Pirates_, so I'll > say Polly Berends and Donald Abbott Roger Baum, too. URL correction: > > Is the MGM Movie your favourite movie ? - No, but it ranks among many > others. See http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi/influences.html if you are > really interested. > > > Fav. Oz Actor (out of all the Oz Movies you've seen so far) - > Christopher Passi, Pierre Couderc, Marc Lewis, Ray Bolger, Stephen Boe, > Valeri Nosik I forgot Pons Maar!!! > Fav. Oz Actor (out fo all the Oz Movies you've seen so far) - Who > can top Nipsy Russell?! I forgot him, too, but since I want to cast him, I guess it's a given... > Scott H.: > >IMHO, I would consider horror and fantasy overlapping genres, but there > >are many horror films for which "fantasy" would be inappropriate, > >particulalry those that deal with psychotic killers that have nothing > >supernatural about them. _The Silence of the Lambs_ is an example of a > >good horror film that could not be considered fantasy. > > Good point. But a lot of horror films are definitely fantasy. I don't question that. I'm trying to get the IMDb to list the Evil Dead films, Suspiria, and Inferno as fantasies, but they son't seem to want to, even though it's set up to list multiple genres. > Jim Whitcomb has posted info about a couple dozen of the presenters who are > scheduled to speak at the Oz Centennial event on the centennial site. > http://www.geocities.com/~ozfan/ozcenten.htm for you heretics who don't have > it bookmarked. :) Check it out. And yes, that's THE Alison Lurie and THE > Philiip Jose Farmer not impersonators. Now Ms. Lurie will be able to get me for swiping pictures from her book for my MIMP website... I need to see _Swing Time_ again... Scott ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:34:17 -0700 charset="iso-8859-1" 2K or not 2K: My lone precaution against Y2K will be to shut off my computers over the weekend. Therefore, my web site is going down in an hour or so and will not be up until January 3, 1900. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-29-99 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 23:21:06 GMT Tyler: >>I think BOW say that she has a sister called 'Belinda' who became the Good >>Witch of the North after Tattypoo was >disenchanted.......Thats what Chris >>Dulabone told me anyway. >This is the plot of a Chris Dulabone book. I can't remember which >one, >though. Actually, it's from _The Enchanted Gnome of Oz_, which was published by Chris, but written by Greg Hunter. It's actually a pretty good read, but it's currently out of print. I managed to pick up a used copy at a convention. David Hulan: >Either way, the infant appears to retain no memory of her earlier >life, at >least in the limited exposure we have to Ozma's thinking. In _Merry Go Round_, doesn't Ozma remember the Unicorn from her time with Lurline's band? >I didn't reread the whole of _Scalawagons_, but I did scan through >the >part where flabbergas was introduced and there's no mention of its origins >there. I doubt if it's explained elsewhere. I saw _Scalawagons_ in a Borders the other day (the same store at which I had purchased several Emerald City Press books, although none were in stock yesterday; I'm not sure if they just weren't selling or what), and glanced at that same part. The point of the flabbergas is never really explained; the Wizard tells Tik-Tok not to touch it, and then mysteriously vanishes. He does that quite a bit in Neill's books. And, speaking of the Wizard's characterization, David also wrote: >>Least Fav. Oz Character and why? Depends on what you mean. Mooj, >Wutz, >>and the Erbs are the characters I'd least like to encounter. Thompson's >>version of the Wizard is probably the worst-executed character in >the >>books, in that he's on-stage a fair bit and acts badly most of the >time >>when he is, contrary to Baum's characterization of him (at least >after >>the >first book). Mooj does seem to be one of the more sinister Oz villains, from the little we've seen of him. As for the Wizard thing, I was actually going to bring that up as part of the _Lost King_ discussion, as that seems to be the first book in which the distinctly Thompsonian Wizard plays a major part. I might as well do that now, since it will probably be time for _Lost King_ discussion when the next Digest arrives. The Wizard, as Thompson presents him, tends to be very jealous and competitive. Note that, during _Lost King_, he doesn't want the Morrow mystery solved without his help, and ends up bringing everyone to a strange place without thinking ahead. His competitive side is best demonstrated when he is trying to achieve the same ends as another magic worker (most notably Jinnicky in _Purple Prince_ and Waddy in _Speedy_). This new side to the Wizard is interesting, but maybe not quite in line with what Baum had originally intended. Why the change? Well, Thompson was clearly working from elements in _Land_ when she wrote _Lost King_, and perhaps her change in the Wizard was so that he would be more believable as the one who brought Ozma to Mombi (as explained in _Land_). Another possibility is that Thompson just didn't write humble, resourceful straight men all that well. Note that Baum's two major examples of this character type, the Shaggy Man and Cap'n Bill, were only mentioned in passing throughout the entire nineteen Thompson Oz books. I'll probably have more thoughts on _Lost King_ before the next Digest is sent out. It's really one of my favorite Thompson titles, and I have a lot to say about it. Dave Hardenbrook: >Mark wrote: >>that book i talked abotu before the dictonary of imaginary places or >some >>such title is out its 40 bucks and thers 2 pretty good maps of oz >and >>lands outside oz > >Though they're kinda oddly shaped if you're used to the Hanff-Martin >maps... Actually, I'm pretty sure that the Dictionary maps are copies of the Haff-Martin ones, but with the dimensions oddly changed (perhaps so they would fit better on the pages of the Dictionary). Note that the cartographer was probably not very familiar with the books, and he misspelled names that were fairly illegible on the maps, but that actual readers probably would have known. "Kalidahs" is spelled "Kalidaks," Howzatagin is "Howrahagin," and Loxo is "Loco." Also, while Haff and Martin usually use simple dots for houses and circled dots for towns, the Dictionary cartographer uses simple dots for both. >(For you fellow Harry Potter fans, the just-released new edition of >_Dictionary of Imaginary Places_ also has an entry for Hogwarts.) I have an older edition, and I took a peek in the new edition about a month ago. I'm a bit disappointed that neither edition contains places from any Oz books after _Patchwork Girl_. This is especially disappointing when you consider that some of the entries in the Dictionary are from hard-to-find works, and most of the later Oz books are widely available. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: The Lost King of Oz (SPOILERS) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 02:12:07 GMT Just a few more comments to add some fuel to the upcoming _Lost King_ discussion: One part that I found fairly disturbing was that the Kimbles seemed to have no problem with eating a talking goose. The books are never too clear on where the meat in Oz comes from, but I think this is the only case in which people are actually willing to have a sentient animal killed for food. Note that Snip is not surprised to find that the proposed dinner can talk, only to find that it recognizes Mombi, and knows that she enchanted the King. In Chapter 1, Thompson states that "[t]here are no stores in Oz." This not only contradicts many other books, but also other information in _Lost King_. First of all, Mombi threatens to turn Snip to sixpence and spend him at the next village. True, this doesn't necessarily mean that there are any stores there, but it seems likely. The more conclusive proof that this statement is unfounded occurs in Blankenburg, where Tora has a tailor SHOP. Really, most of the "no whatever in Oz" statements are contradicted at some point in the series, often BEFORE the statement appears. To give just a few examples: A few Baum books (as well as Thompson's _Royal Book_) state that the Sawhorse is the only horse in Oz, which seems unlikely given the information in the first two books. While no real horses actually appear in those books, there are several hints that the Ozites are familiar with the animals. When fed oatmeal during _Wizard_, the Cowardly Lion remarks that oats are food for horses, not lions. Tip recognizes the Sawhorse as a horse, and the person who created the wooden equine must also have known what a horse looks like. Still, the fact that the Emerald City-ites have no idea what to feed a horse in _Dorothy and the Wizard_ seems plausible. It isn't that there are no horses in Oz, just none in the Emerald City area. Note that Oz was isolated in the reign of the Wizard, and probably continued to be that way during the early years of Ozma's reign. My guess is that there had been horses in the outlying regions of Oz, but they were very rare in the more central regions. Note that there are many horses in Thompson's books, but most of them tend to live in more remote regions of Oz. Once these more remote Oz regions were discovered by Ozma, however, horses were probably introduced into the more central regions. In Neill's books, they seem to be fairly common throughout the country, and there are also mules. Really, I think that this idea can explain some of the other generalizations. For instance, consider the money problem. In _Road_, the Tin Woodman states that there is no money in Oz, but we see currency used in later books. This is most common in Thompson's works, but it is also used in Jinxland during _Scarecrow_. I think it is likely that, while one inhabitant of the Emerald City might well perform a service for his neighbors without being paid, a merchant coming in from Jinxland or another outlying kingdom, located nowhere near the Royal Storehouses mentioned in _Emerald City_, would prefer an immediate material reward. Two of the odder generalizations, which really can't be explained away in that manner, occur when Baum states that Toto is the first dog in Oz, and Billina the first chicken. _Wizard_ places both a hen and a rooster in the Emerald City, and _Land_ puts a green dog in that same city. Thompson's statement that there are no ferries in Oz (found in _Royal Book_) is also strange, considering that there had been ferries in both _Land_ and _Lost Princess_. Okay, that's all I have to say at the moment. Sorry for the multiple posts, but I'm having trouble writing everything all at once. Maybe I should hold off on more _Lost King_ comments until the discussion officially starts. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 16:10:21 EST Subject: Oz Gehan: Dorothy's age is one of the great mysteries of all time (at least in Oz). THe general consensus is that she was about six when she first came to Oz in _Wizard_, and was maybe around 9-12 when she moved there permanently. In _Lost Princess_, Dorothy is said to be a year older than Trot and a year younger than Betsy. In _Giant Horse_, Trot says "me too" when Philador says that he is 10 years old. You can do the math. I don't think that it's necessary for Dorothy to age physically in order to mature emotionally. Years of life experience will probably do that, even in Oz. However, she may have aged a few years to just at the teen level. March Laumer has her at 16 in _Emerald City_, but that's probably a bit high. Stephen Teller may be able to provide you with summaries of Laumer's books. IMHO, they are all good except for _Green Dolphin_. They are really not generally available any more, due to March's poor physical condition. Dave: I will gladly write a summary of _OZ and the Three Witches_ and post it, but I would rather post that AND the full text. I may have been the one who volunteered to write to him. If you give me his address, I will write again. IMHO, this is a very important book for those interested in Pre-Dorothean Oz. OzMinistration: How do I inform the IWOOC that I have changed addresses? How/When can I order _Hidden Prince_? Does anybody know who is in charge of the estate of Chris Sterling? This post may not go out on the digest for a few days, so let me be retroactive... As my sole concession to Y2K (which does not seem to have affected New Zealand at the time of this writing) I have turned off my computers in my office. Therefore, my web site was (will be) unavailable from Dec. 30 to January 3. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "sprichards" Subject: Survey on Oz, Ojo in Oz, and other things Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:00:50 -0800 Hello! I haven't said anything for a while, so I'll say something now. Survey: Name: Justin Richards Sex: Male How did you get to know Oz: My parents loved THE WIZARD OF OZ movie and I liked it too and for Christmas of 1991 (or was it 1992?) I got THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ and DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD IN OZ and I enyojed them and then I recived GLINDA OF OZ and THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ and went on from there. What other Oz Movies do you like other than WOZ and RTO: Well, I like THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ silent film...and I've seen some 1990 animated Wizard of Oz shows, and all 4 silent flims. Nothing else besides WOZ and RTO Fav. Oz Character and why: This is a hard one...I like Ojo because he is very adventurous and brave, but I like the Weenix from the LOST KING OF OZ (I feel sorry that he can't say much other than Ka-Woosh and he had a small part) and Mombi because she's mean and a good villain. I love Ruggedo the Gnome King too! Ozma is very kind, but the Scarecrow...or Snufferbux... Least fav. Oz character and why: Probably Mooj the Clockmaker and King Ticket. Mooj scared the wits out of me when I first read OJO IN OZ and King Ticket...I don't have a reason for disliking him...but I dislike him! MGM Movie or RTOz: I like Return to Oz a lot because it is like the books, but the MGM Movie is more 'happy' like Baum wanted it to be. But I love both! If they cut out the mental-shock scene, RTO would be better. But Dorothy doesn't enjoy Oz until the end, but in WOZ, she smiles and loves every moment...except the witch. The movie or the books: THE OZ BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!! Fav. Oz books: Glinda of Oz, Ojo in Oz, Ozma of Oz, Jack Pumpkinhead of Oz, Merry-Go-Round in Oz Least Fav. Oz books: Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz, The Road to Oz, the Hungry Tiger of Oz, the Gnome King of Oz, The Scalawagons of Oz, Magical Mimics in Oz, etc Fav. Oz Author: I like L. Frank Baum because his books are quite adventurous...Ruth Plumly Thompson because her stories have more puns, I don't like Jack Snow, or Neil too much, Rachel Cosgrove's two books are wonderful, and so are the McGraw's books. So I don't know. Proabably L. Frank Baum Least Fav. Oz Author: Jack Snow. His book are quite dark, although I am from Buffalo and like how he mentioned it in THE SHAGGY MAN OF OZ, I don't like either of the stories too much. Neil is behind him. Fav. Oz Illustrator: John R. Neil, followed by Eric Shanower, followed by Dick Martain. Least Fav. Oz Illustrator: Frank Kramer followed by Dirk. Are Oz Books your favorite series: YES! Harry Potter books come after them Is the Movie your favorite Movie: Well....yes...followed by Return to Oz, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, The Sound of Music, Olivia Newton John/Gene Kelly's Xanadu, and Brigadoon! Have you written any Oz Books? If so, what are they? If not, do you intend to write any? -Yes, I have TONS of books. I'll only breifly describe them. The Voyage to Oz---A Captain Salt, King Ato, Tandy, and Roger adventure on the high seas right after CAPTAIN SALT IN OZ. Revenge On Oz---Ruggedo, Gludwig, and some witches who were restored to life plot to conquer Oz. The Scalet Prince of Oz---I am down to the last three chapters on this. Jason and Dusty the Golden Retriver (my characters) go to Ev where they meet Jinnicky the Red Jinn and they take a ride in his Jinnerinisha which tunnels underground to OZ. Dusty and a dalmation have some adventures in Bunbury, while Dorothy and Kiki Aru are stuck in the Gnome Kingdom with Gloma the Witch of the Black Forest! Ozma has gone to Telracs, a kingdom where they are at war with another kingdom to stop the war. But Prince Derred has his heart set on Princess Cinnomin (spelled that way on purpose) while they must stop Zog's brother Zog-A-Nog from destroying Oz and capturing Trot and Cap'n Bill. Sounds complicated, but it really isn't! I may have to re-name it. (Purple Princes and Hidden Princes, now a Scarlet Prince? How about the Red King in Oz?) Jinnicky in Oz/The Red Jinn of Oz---A Jinnicky story where the Red Jinn of Ev and a Hippopoztomas must save Oz from the Human Beans led by Kid Knee the Konkerer who have already captured Ev. The Secret Tunnel Under Oz---About how Ozma closed up the tunnel in THE EMERALD CITY OF OZ and found it open in THE SHAGGY MAN OF OZ and how two children travel through it to the Gnome Kingdom and to OZ. I have some other ideas too. Fav. Oz Website: Eric Gjovaag's Oz Site, Tyler's site, Wendy's Oz site, the IWOC's site, and some others that I don't know the names to. What do you have in your Oz Collection: The Famous Forty Oz books, 11 Reilly and Lee books, a 1st edition GRAMPA IN OZ, a 1st edition LOST KING OF OZ, a 1st edition JOHN DOUGH AND THE CHERUB, a 1st edition YELLOW KNIGHT OF OZ, a 1st edition JACK PUMPKINHEAD OF OZ, and a 1920 edition of THE EMERALD CITY OF OZ, some Books of Wonder books and stuff, Tails of the Cowardly Lion and Friends books, all 5 Oz-Story magazines, 100 years of Oz, 50th anniversary things, Oz videos/dvd's, Oz club books, and other stuff. Do you create any Oz fan stuff: Well, I made paper dolls from my sister based on The Oz Toy Book and The Oz Toy Book Volume Two. Fav. Oz Actress: Margret Hamilton Are there any Oz Actors/Actressess who didnt quite fit their parts 'ozzily': Billie Burke. Fav. Oz Actor fo all: Ray Bolger If you could create an Oz Movie/Cartoon/TV Series, what would it all be about? And who would star in it: I would have an episode for most of the Famous Forty, but I don't know who would star in it. I am a member of IWOC and Royal Club of Oz. If I would change one thing: I also wouldn't have Tattypoo transform. **************************************************************************** **************************************************** I like the plan of whoever suggested to pay someone to photocopy a book for people who don't have it. But here are some other ideas: Somebody could type up a book and E-Mail it to someone Someone could post chapters (Not a good idea, would take up too much space) I have started typing up OJO IN OZ word-for-word and it's taken me two days to do three and a half chapters. I'll volenteer to send it to people interested later on if they don't have it (it's my favorite FF book along with GLIDNA OF OZ) but now it is for my own purposes. But I'll E-Mail it to people if you think it's a good idea. I don't want to get sued or in trouble or anything, so I'm still not sure yet. But if you are interested, E-Mail me at kabumpo@hotmail.com. Sorry for the long post, I haven't posted in a while anyway. From, Justin Richards ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:19:27 -0800 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: March Laumer David G. wrote >I contacted Mr. Laumer via e-mail last spring, at which time he said his >books would be available when he returned to the US in October (I think it >was), and he was kind enough to mail me a price list. Well, by the time >October rolled around, he wasn't doing business anymore. So I don't know the >answer to your question, but I wish I did, because there are a few I'd like >to read myself. I'm glad you mentioned this, because it reminded me... I received a letter from Mr. Laumer a couple of weeks ago, and with one thing and another I forgot to share it with the group, for which I apologize. Anyway, here it is (words I couldn't quite make out are in brackets): ----------------------------------------- Dear Mr. H[ardenbrook]: I wish you'd spread this thick and continually on the Internet and in the Digest. I being terminal (skeleton cancer) in a hospice [sic], I'm passing from the scene. All true Oz devotees are cordially invited to go to my house in Largo, FL & carry off at no charge Oz-publishing souveniers: [printed vats], publi-[remainders], picture printing blocks; by contacting [sic]: Hubbard: (727) 523-1203. It's real! I'll be grateful... March Laumer ----------------------------------------- -- Dave ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:58:09 -0800 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things At 02:12 AM 12/31/99 +0000, Nathan wrote: >In Chapter 1, Thompson states that "[t]here are no stores in Oz." This >not only contradicts many other books, but also other information in _Lost >King_. If she *had* to say anything on the subject, she should have said "there are *few* stores in Oz"... "All" and "no" are dangerous words! :) >David Hulan: > >Either way, the infant appears to retain no memory of her earlier >life, at > >least in the limited exposure we have to Ozma's thinking. > >In _Merry Go Round_, doesn't Ozma remember the Unicorn from her time with >Lurline's band? Hippikaloric, I hope not! Ozma's non-memory of her life in Lurline's band is a plot device in the third book in my trilogy... Might this have been in (non-Canonical and so I don't feel so guilty about contradicting it) _Mysterious Chronicles of Oz_? I seem to have a memory...) Justin wrote: >How about the Red King in Oz? The Red King *does* show up along with other Carrollians in Martin Gardner's _Visitors From Oz_. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JANUARY 3 - 5, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:02:43 -0500 (EST) From: LoracLegid@aol.com Subject: F.O.C. Darley (1821-1888) You might like to visit the web page established for F.O.C. Darley, Dicken's American illustrator. www.focdarley.org The catalog of the 1996 Exhibition of Denslow's works at the Brandywine River Museum is still available --W.W DENSLOW, The Other Wizard of Oz, essay by Michael Patrick Hearn. LOC Number 96-083578. I picked up a copy yesterday at the Museum. My 1907 edition of Ozma of Oz is illustrated by O'Neil. Carol Digel LoracLegid@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:57:39 -0600 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-29-99 Lisa: >Least Fav. Oz Character and why? - Ummm ... probably Cap'n Bill ... some >of the crossovers weren't that good. Could you elaborate on that a bit? Cap'n Bill is one of my favorite characters, and I'm not sure what you mean by "crossovers." Do you mean _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_? I'll agree that the former is fairly weak (though better than _DotWiz_ or _Road_ or _L&A of Santa Claus_), but the latter is probably my favorite Baum of all. Bob C.: >Fav. Oz Book/s - The Road to Oz, because we meet Polychrome, Patchwork Girl, >Glass Cat, Umm...Polychrome, yes, but we meet Scraps and the Glass Cat later in _Patchwork Girl_. In _Road_ the other continuing characters we meet are the Shaggy Man and Button-Bright. >Fav. Oz Author and why? - L. Frank Baum, David Hulan *blush* Thank you. >If you could change just ONE thing in the FF Books, what would it be? - That >Glinda and her book of records should have known that the wizard was a >humbug from the start. He should have never been able to take over Oz. But >without him we don't have a story do we? The best evidence is that Glinda didn't have her book of records until after the events of _Land_; if she had, she wouldn't have needed spies, and she should have known where (and who) Ozma was all along as well. She seems to have acquired it sometime between _Land_ and _Emerald City_. (Maybe a gift from Tititi-hoochoo?) Scott H.: > > The MGM movie is a more successful effort at movie-making, but RTO is more > > in keeping with the spirit of the books, and I enjoyed it more. >I'm not even sure I agree with this statement. I think RTO does have a >huge weakness in that everything is solved through a knock of the >heels--the shoes are too powerful to be interesting or dramatic. What is solved in RTO through a knock of the heels? Or did you mean in the MGM movie? If the latter, then the "it was all a dream" ending means that you can't apply normal dramatic criteria to the ending of the dream. John K.: >As to best movie musicals, I don't know that I've ever seen one that has >thoroughly impressed me. They all seem musically thin (all the Astaire >and Rogers -- pretty songs, but not great music), Well, no. But then stage musicals don't have great music either, at least IMHO. Not if you're going by the standard of Mozart or Puccini or Verdi or Wagner. I consider the songs from "Shall We Dance" as good as any the Gershwins did anywhere else; ditto for "Follow the Fleet" and Berlin. Jeremy: >Royal Club of Oz: >What is it? It's the proprietary Oz club run by BoW (with financial assistance from Morrow, I believe). See Dave's or Eric G.'s FAQs for more information. It's aimed more at younger Oz readers, but has material of interest to adult Oz fans as well. $9.95 a year to belong. It has some fun contests, Oz puzzles, and an exciting Oz serial told in the form of letters from Oz characters (transcribed and edited by yhos...). Gehan: >I was wondering about this subject for some time. In most of the Thompson >books, such as 'Wishing Horse of Oz' and even 'Merry Go Round in Oz', >Dorotyh acts fare more 'maturely' than she did in 'Emerald City of Oz', >despite the fact that she's been the same age the whole time. Its as if she >was about 8-9 in 'EC', but around 12-13 in most of the other books. D'you >suppose she was around 8-9 when she came to live in Oz for good, yet she >wanted to stop aging when she was around 11-12? Possibly. I don't think she acts that much younger in EC, though, except for a brief scene when she's first appealing to Ozma to bring Uncle Henry and Aunt Em to Oz. Otherwise, I think she acts around 11-12 from her reappearance in the Oz world in _Ozma_ through the rest of the books, with occasional lapses. (Her diction is pretty bad in _Ozma_, and occasionally in later books, but her actions are generally rational and mature most of the time.) Warren: > Hmm, just occurred to me to wonder if Oz's calendar system is the same as >ours. I.e., will 2000 start on Jan. 1 at 00:00:001 for them, too? The only date I know of that we have from Oz is the one in _Cowardly Lion_, where the Travelers' Tree was created by the Wizard Wam in 1120 (or something like that) O.Z. This would indicate that Oz doesn't use the Christian calendar, so is probably not celebrating the year 2000 at present. Dave: >Can you elaborate? What makes the Ozzy Digest better? With all the >recent Ozzy Digest-bashing, I'd like to know what I'm doing *right*... I suspect that the answer for both the pro- and anti-Digest forces has less to do with anything you're doing or not doing than with the people who choose to be active on the Digest. Those who enjoy the kind of meticulous exegesis of things Ozzy that we do here are going to like the Digest a lot; those who find it boring (or who disagree strongly enough with some of the opinions expressed that they find them offensive) aren't going to like it much. (But out of curiosity, what "recent Ozzy Digest-bashing"? I don't recall any such on the Digest itself; is this something that happened on the Tik-tok or other list?) >What happened with our plan to write Hugh Pendexter and ask him to release >_Oz and the Three Witches_ to PD? Had someone volunteered to write him? >( Do I have to do *everything*? :) ) I don't mind writing him if anyone knows his address. I don't. And I'll be willing to give a summary of its argument if nobody can come up with an address, though I'd need to reread it first. Would this be something that should be posted on the Digest proper, or as an archive of some sort? David Hulan ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:17:18 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-02-2000 Being that THE WIZARD OF OZ is OFFICIALLY 100 years old, will there be anything *NEW* to see this year about OZ at all ? ( movie, book, biography etc..... ) Lisa Marie ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:26:10 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: The Lost King of Oz & other Ozzy Things SPOILERS I think we should be able to start 'Lost King of Oz' discussions, now that almost everyone has finished with the Ozzy Survey I created. 'Lost King' is one of my fav. RPT books, along with 'Kabumpo in Oz' 'Cowardly Lion' 'Hungry Tiger' and 'Wishing Horse'. I think the dialogue is the BEST feature in this book.....Its betetr than ANY RPT Book I've EVER read, IMO, but the characters/plotlines/inicidents/ending/adventures are really interesting too. However, I dont like the way RPT keeps disenchanting everyone. Here's a list of characters she's disenchanted: The Scarecrow/Chang Wang Woe(she ALMOST disenchanted him) Peg Amy Urtha the Flowery Princess/Princess of Perhaps City Tora the Tailor/King Pastoria The forest maiden/Princess from 'The Giant Horse of Oz' Tattypoo/Queen Orin Sir Hokus/Prince of Corumbia There are many more in other books, which I cant quite place my finger on. I personally dont like her iedia of enchanting and DISenchanting people, because it CAN get quite annoying at times.....especially if the character was one fo your favourites.....It must be a habit of hers. The whole Tattypoo/Orin theory doesnt fit in with the Oz Books, and the Sir Hokus/Prince of Corumbia theory totally contradicts 'The Royal Book of Oz'. I also dont like the way she makes people forget their past whenever they're transformed. Just my two cents.... ~Gehan~ ================================ Whenever I feel afraid I hold my head erect and whistle a happy tune so no one will suspect, I'm afraid While shivering in my shoes I strike a careless pause and whistle a happy tune so no one ever knows, I'm afraid The result of this deception is very strange to tell for when I fool the people I fear I fool myself as well I whistle a happy tune and every single time the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm, not afraid! Make believe your brave and the trick will take you far You may be as brave as you make believe you are You may be as brave as you make believe you are -- I Whistle a Happy Tune (The King and I) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:26:14 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: More Ozzy Things Tyler: I also think that Dorothy is 11-12, Betsy is 12-13 and Trot is 7-10. My own chronology chain for the Oz Books are: 1897 - The Wizard of Oz (I assume that Dorothy was 7+) 1898 - The Land of Oz 1899 - Ozma of Oz (Dorothy is 9) 1900 - Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz (Dorothy is 10) 1901 - The Road to Oz & The Emerald City of Oz (Dorothy is 11 and a half) 1902 - Little Wizard Stories of Oz & The Sea Fairies (Trot is 8) 1903 - The Patchwork Girl of Oz & Sky Island (Trot is 9) 1904 - Tiktok of Oz, The Scarecrow of Oz & Rinkitink in Oz (Trot is 10 and Betsy is 12) 1905 - The Lost Princess of Oz & The Tinwoodman of Oz 1906 - The Magic of Oz & Glinda of Oz 1907 - The Royal Book of Oz, Kabumpo in Oz & The Cowardly Lion of Oz 1908 - Grampa in Oz, The Lost King of Oz & The Hungry Tiger of Oz 1909 - The Gnome King of Oz & The Giant Horse of Oz So my guess is that Dorothy is actually 3 years older than Betsy BIOLOGICALLY, but CHRONOLOGICALLY one year younger. The same goes to Trot......She's biologically three years younger than Dorothy and 2 years younger than Betsy, but CHRONOLOGICALLY ONE year younger than Dot. I place 'Wizard of Oz' in 1897 because Baum began telling the story in 1898. I place 'Rinkitink in Oz' in 1904 because Baum originally wanted to start it off as a non-Oz story in 1905..... I place 'Lost Princess' an year after Betsy arrived in Oz because she claims never to have visited the Munchkin Country, and unless she has only lived in the EC for more than an year, this seems highly unlikely. True there ARE many things to do IN the Emerakd City, but surely Ozma and Dorothy would have decided to take Betsy around the Land of Oz for her to see what it looks like? If 'Gaint Horse' took place around the time RPT wrote the story, no way could Orin have been enchanted and turned into Tattypoo 25 years ago since then, as Dorothy herself came to Oz over 25 years ago since 'Giant Horse' and she met Tattypoo. So I place 'Giant Horse' in 1909 because Orin was supposed to have been transformed into Tattypoo 25 years ago since the time the story took place, and the Wizard himself states in 'Dotwiz' that when he came to Oz, there were two good witches ruled the North and South, and two bad witches ruled the East and the West. Well perhaps Mombi DID rule the NORTH at the time he came to Oz, yet he didnt want to even MENTION her, because he was guilty of handing baby Ozma over to her. I believe that the Wizard left Ozma in Mombi's care AFTER Tattypoo banished her(or Tattypoo would have disenchanted Tip when she came to Mombi's hut and chased her away), so according to MY own HACC, this would be around 1884-1885. This would mean that Tip would be around 13-14 by 'Land of Oz', if it DID take place in 1898 as I say, and that seems to fit in well enough since Baum identifies him as a 'youth' and not a 'little boy', and Ozma herself is supposed to be about 13-14. I also think that although the wicked witches conquered the four countries BEFORE the Wizard came to Oz, Mombi didnt turn King Pastoria into a tailor untill AFTER the Wizard came to Oz, though she may have turned Pajuka into a goose before. I believe that King Pastoria and his queen were hiding at Morrow, during the Wizard's reign. Here's MOPPET from then: King Pastoria's wife gave birth to Ozma around 1883-1885 since Ozma was a baby when the Wizard left her with Mombi, around the same time. However, Mombi found out Pastoria's hiding place in Morrow at the same time that Ozma was born, and though she threw Pastoria down a well, his queen ran away to the Wizard with her baby Ozma, and perhaps she explained to him who she was, and died soon after, leaving Ozma in the Wizard's care, who promptly handed her over to Mombi, afraid that she will realise that he was only a humbug wizard when she was a little older. And Mombi was only too glad, because she'd had been looking for Ozma since her mother ran away with her. You may wonder how Ozma says she was with Lurline's fairy band a thousand years ago, if she was born in 188?. Simple! Lurline could have de-aged Ozma back to a little baby and injected her into King Pastoria's wife's womb, as most Oz fans believe. Thats ONLY MY theory anyway.....It maybe too complicated for you to understand.... ~Gehan~ ================================ Whenever I feel afraid I hold my head erect and whistle a happy tune so no one will suspect, I'm afraid While shivering in my shoes I strike a careless pause and whistle a happy tune so no one ever knows, I'm afraid The result of this deception is very strange to tell for when I fool the people I fear I fool myself as well I whistle a happy tune and every single time the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm, not afraid! Make believe your brave and the trick will take you far You may be as brave as you make believe you are You may be as brave as you make believe you are -- I Whistle a Happy Tune (The King and I) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:29:43 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: To Justin Justin: Dave's right. People might confuse your Red King with Lewis Carrol's Red King in 'Through the Looking Glass' if you call your book 'The Red King IN Oz'. 'The Red King OF Oz' woudl be better, or maybe even 'The Red RULER of Oz' or 'The Red PRINCE of Oz'. If you call it 'The Scarlet Prince of Oz', people might confuse him with the Prince of Rash, as RPT calls him the 'Scarlet Prince' in 'Hunrgy Tiger of Oz'. ~Gehan~ ==================================================================== Whenever I feel afraid I hold my head erect and whistle a happy tune so no one will suspect, I'm afraid While shivering in my shoes I strike a careless pause and whistle a happy tune so no one ever knows, I'm afraid The result of this deception is very strange to tell for when I fool the people I fear I fool myself as well I whistle a happy tune and every single time the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm, not afraid! Make believe your brave and the trick will take you far You may be as brave as you make believe you are You may be as brave as you make believe you are -- I Whistle a Happy Tune (The King and I) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 3 Jan 00 10:35:10 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: lost king of oz Some "Lost King" comments. We've had a thread of discussion about influence of Carroll on RPT. This is one of the books where that influence is especially clear. The Backwoodsmen, with their back-talk and backward locomotion are like the early chapters of "Through the Looking Glass," although "back woods" is (I think) an Americanism. Dorothy's sudden increase and decrease in size are like Alice's (although caused differently and not happening more than once). Snip's fall down the well into a country of unpleasant people with an unpleasant queen and a set of peculiar laws is like Alice's fall down the rabbithole. There are also at least a couple of verbal echoes. Snip, while falling, reflects, "After this I shall think nothing of falling out of a button tree or down a flight of steps." Alice's thought is "After such a fall as this, I shall think nothing of tumbling downstairs!" (But RPT avoids the characteristically Carrollian turn where Alice goes on to think that she wouldn't say anything about it even if she fell off a house, and the narrative comments that that's very likely true.) Dorothy, after getting back to her child-size, says, "I can't imagine what's happened to me, but then everything is very queer lately." This resembles a couple of the things Alice says to the Caterpillar when she has trouble explaining who she is: "I know who I _was_ when I got up this morning, but I think I must have changed several times since then" and, when the Caterpillar denies that changing into a butterfly would be confusing, "All I know is, it would feel very queer to me." The book also draws on Baum's stageplay of "The Wizard," in naming the King Pastoria, and does an interesting job of extrapolating from Baum's very brief mentions of how the witches did away with Ozma's father to come up with the title character. Warren H. Baldwin: Oz's calendar system might be the same as ours in terms of months (for instance, the reference to Ozma's birthday as coming in August), but is probably not the same in terms of years. The Wizard Wam's Traveler's Tree has a plaque dated in OZ years ("Cowardly Lion"), and they might also use Hiergargo's calendar (as used in Tititihoochoo's land, "Tik-Tok"), which seems to be an older calendar. Happy new year, Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 3 Jan 00 14:47:38 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: generalizations in oz David Godwin: Interesting set of questions on Baum's politics. A part of the answer is probably that it's an exaggeration to describe him as "aggressively" looking for chances to find something that "would finally pay off big time." Diligent rather than aggressive, and looking for a small time payoff would be more precise (except the pay off when it came for him turned out to be bigger than expected), and on those terms closer to the modest expectations he assigns to the Ozites. If they'd had his problems and interests, they'd have moved around a lot more, too. Up until bankruptcy forced him out of ND newspapering, he was enjoying the business and the state enough to write an editorial (included in Nancy Kouras's book of his editorials) on how fine a community Aberdeen was going to be and how important it was to try to stick out the bad times. He didn't really go from Chicago to Hollywood for the purpose of getting into movies, but tried to getinto movies, since they were going on there, once he'd moved to enjoy the climate (and his writing business could be carried on anywhere). Also, being a "Republican" at the time was not necessarily a contradiction to being a "socialist." The monarchy is more surprising -- but Ozma as described seems to leave a lot of personal freedom to her so-called "subjects" (if you don't worry too much about how much offstage use she's making of the Magic Picture and her right to adjudicate disputes such as the one between Coo-ee-oh and the Su-Dic and suchlike questions). Nathan DeHoff: Suggestion that RPT's Wizard reflects the comments on him in "Land" -- interesting possibility. Maybe also some reflection of the Wizard as characterized in the stageplay? // Morality of eating a talking goose -- a difficulty that runs through a lot of the Oz books, starting with the Lion's disappearance into the woods in "Wizard" to get food for himself the narrative refuses to specify. It isn't clear if Baum and his successors were just dodging this point entirely, or were assuming (without wanting to specify) that carnivores in a country like Oz must be morally able to eat intelligent prey (although for omnivores the case would be less compelling). In Lewis's Narnia books, there is a sharp difference between Talking Beasts and ordinary speechless, unintelligent beasts, but the Oz authors probably weren't thinking along that line. J.L. Bell: "The Number of the Beast" was by Heinleim, and one section of it took place in Oz. You were mentioning various drawbacks to lack of aging in Oz -- that issue is important in Heinlein's take on it in "Number," so you might find it interesting to look up some time in spite of not being specially interested in stfnal Ozzes. (Not to mention the problem that "Number" is a non-stop gabfest between four characters who all sound a good deal alike. But the "Oz" section is an interesting take.) Dave Hardenbrook: "If she *had* to say anything on the subject she should have said `there are *few* stores in Oz' -- well, RPT probably did have to say _something_ on the subject. Otherwise, she could probably have expected some readers (perhaps the ones whose parents ran stores?) to ask why Kimbaloo peddled their buttons instead of sending them to stores to sell for them or setting up a store in Kimbaloo and letting customers come to them. As you and Nathan comment, "few" would have been better than "no" in almost all the generalizations of that sort scattered through the Oz books. On the other hand, it might be narratively awkward to stop and explain, "so few that for practical purposes throughout Oz or at least in this section of it it amounts to none," and just as awkward to omit explanation of the "so few it doesn't matter" variety. I'm inclined to suspect that saying "no" and leaving a footnote of "well, almost none" to be assumed by nitpickers like us is a better solution. (Nathan suggested that Tora's tailor shop itself contradicts the generalization, but I don't think it can be really considered a "store." He's selling a service rather than a stock of "diversified goods for retail sale.") Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:48:53 -0500 From: "John W. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-02-2000 Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky wrote: > Krull has the ignoble distinction of being the > only movie I ever walked out of before the end. Ah, but then you didn't _see_ the end. David Godwin wrote: > In Baum's > books, most of the citizens of Oz are content to be farmers forever, with no > drive, no ambition, no desire to better themselves. Precisely! Political thought cannot be mapped by marking two points, one marked "Democrat" and one "Republican", and then drawing the line determined by those two points. Just because we are told today that freedom = capitalism = material prosperity does not make it so; they are not inseparably linked even as philosophies, let alone as fact. To take but one example, not long before Baum was born, the great political debate in New York was between the "Loco Focos", who opposed all government regulation of business on the grounds that it led to extortionate monopolies, and Tammany, who condemned labor unions as philosophically contrary to the spirit of '76. It is always a grave mistake to assume that political polarities of another place or time are similar to the polarities of ones own, and the 19th century spent a good deal more time that we realize regretting itself. Nathan Mulac DeHoff wrote: > In Chapter 1, Thompson states that "[t]here are no stores in Oz." This not > only contradicts many other books, but also other information in _Lost > King_. First of all, Mombi threatens to turn Snip to sixpence and spend him > at the next village. True, this doesn't necessarily mean that there are any > stores there, but it seems likely. The more conclusive proof that this > statement is unfounded occurs in Blankenburg, where Tora has a tailor SHOP. I'm not sure that's a contradiction. A "shop" is not necessarily a "store". -- -John W. Kennedy -rri0189@ibm.net Compact is becoming contract Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:39:21 -0500 From: "Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman" Subject: Request for beta readers Greetings, Ozzy Digesters. At long last I have awakened from my long lurk. The spirit of Ozziness has rested upon me again, resulting in the relatively imminent release of a new Oz fanfic and the start of new work on the mysterious Project RUR. Before I release my new fanfic to the public, however, I need a few people to look it over first. It is a crossover with the cartoon _Daria_, attempting to be a workable story for both worlds. What I'm afraid of is that the result is that fans of one world alone will find the story utterly incomprehensible. I therefore am asking (or rather begging) for a few volunteers to look over "Daria in Oz" so that I have some idea of what background information about Oz I still have to put in. Volunteers, please E-mail me directly. Thanks in advance to everyone for their help. Aaron -- Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman Pioneer Aviation adelmaas@musc.edu http://www.musc.edu/~adelmaas/ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:24:10 -0500 From: Scott Cummings Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-02-2000 Hello Oz friends, I've not posted on the Digest for years, but do skim most issues. Thanks, David, for your efforts with this. I was deeply saddened to read that March Laumer is suffering from skeletal cancer. I corresponded with March frequently when I was younger, and looked forward with great anticipation to receiving his letters and new Oz books. His "adult" Oz novels were a fun way to make the awkward transition from a childhood interest in the Oz books to an adolescent obsession with everything Oz. Although my activities in the world of Oz have shrunken to an occasional book purchase, I still carry fond memories of the world of Oz. March Laumer's Oz books (and his scholarly work on the foreign editions of Oz books) were a most notable part of those memories. Would there be any way to celebrate the works of March at the Oz convention this summer? Best wishes, Scott Cummings ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:42:12 -0500 (EST) From: Gehan: Where have you been able to order _Purple Prince_? That's the only Del-Rey I don't have. Nathan: > Howzatagin is "Howrahagin," and Loxo is "Loco." Also, while Haff and > Martin > usually use simple dots for houses and circled dots for towns, the > Dictionary cartographer uses simple dots for both. This must be what Willard Carroll was looking at when Scarecrow implied Ku-Klip was a town in _The Return of Mombi_. Civic's production of the Wizard was excellent as usual. Some of the cast was the same, some different. There were fewer "Ozians" (Ozmies) than last time, and most were older. One of them was played by C. Ryan Metzger, whom I had seen as Berowne in _Love's Labours Lost_ [sic]. Another was Abigail Young, who is a member of Bunk Films, from which I was expelled over IMDb entries. There was an ad for this in the lobby: http://www.adventuresinoz.com/ and a drawing to get a copy, but I didn't enter, because mine would probably be thrown out because of my age. I didn't talk to Sarah Wiley, unlike last time, so I never found out if it was okay to put her picture up on my page, which is why it isn't there. Maybe Nikki can talk to Abigail or something, just in case. If we're not going to have a circa twelve year old as Ozma, my vote would be for Melinda Kinnaman. Scott ====================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Militaries are inherently the most corrupt organizations in the world, simply because their mission is to kill people and break things." ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:02:07 -0600 Subject: Oz From: "David Godwin" J. L. Bell wrote, concerning _The Number of the Beast_: >I'm not familiar with this title. I presume it's a take on Oz from an >established science-fiction writer, an area of publishing I've never been >able to keep in my head. It's by Robert A. Heinlein, copyright 1980, and the part about Oz is actually very brief: one chapter or less. Nevertheless, Heinlein brought up several controversial/interesting points - that there is no sex, no pregnancy, and no birth in Oz because the population is constant and no one dies - that the sun rises in the west in the Oz world, so they call it "east" - and so on. Also: >Tyler Jones, I just tried visiting your site again, and still got "404" >messages after clicking on the months for digests. Me too, as of 10 p.m. on 1/3/00. Don't know what the problem is; obviously it's hard to detect from your end. I am not panicking, because I had already downloaded everything prior to July '99 and have saved everything since as the list was published, but it is a shame for all that work on your part to sit there unusable. I recognize that there probably isn't all that much you yourself can do to straighten it out, as the problem is most likely with the ISP somehow. LT&B: We are all familiar with the line about "lions and tigers and bears" from the MGM film. Immediately after chanting this refrain, Dot & friends meet the Cowardly Lion. But they never meet any tigers or bears. In the book, after meeting the lion, they do meet tigers and bears in the form of kalidahs, who have the bodies of bears and the heads of tigers. I'm just curious whether the MGM scriptwriters/lyricists got the idea of lions and tigers and bears from the Cowardly Lion plus the kalidahs of the book, or whether this is just a coincidence. Lost King: It's my feeling that RPT did a credible job of trying to fill in the details about "whatever happened to Pastoria," but there are still unanswered questions she did not address (such as how a fairy who has existed from the beginning of the world can have an apparently human father) and she even succeeds in creating more problems (such as where is Morrow and why haven't we heard of it before - does it have that name just for the sake of a pun? - as if she were opening a whole new world and mythos of which we have heretofore heard nothing - and will hereafter hear nothing more). Anyway, it's an improvement over the RPT books that came before. I think in my sequential reading of the works of Ms. Thonpson, it was at about this point that I began to reach the opinion that only Baum's books describe the "real" Oz, and anything that came after that is merely a children's fantasy written by someone who wasn't in the know the way LFB was. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jan 00 19:47:57 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DIGEST ARCHIVE: I've figured out why you all haven't been able to access Tyler's Archive of the Digest -- The URL's are incorrect, though the files themselves are on his site. So what I've done is I've "cloned" Tyler's Archive page, corrected the links, and put it on my own page temporarily until he can incorporate the corrections on his own page. So for now if you want to download back issues of the Digest, go to: http://www.mindspring.com/~daveh47/Ozzy_digest_archive.htm ARROW OF TIME: David H. wrote: >The only date I know of that we have from Oz is the one in _Cowardly Lion_, >where the Travelers' Tree was created by the Wizard Wam in 1120 (or >something like that) O.Z. This would indicate that Oz doesn't use the >Christian calendar, so is probably not celebrating the year 2000 at present. Jellia tells me that the calendar in use in Oz divides the years into BC (= Before Crash, i.e. that killed the WWE) and AD (= After Dorothy). The current Ozzy year (reckoning from the HACC) is AD 102 (AD 104 on Gehan's timeline). In Oz, they didn't have to worry about Y2K, though a couple of years ago all the magical algorithms in Oz had a "Y1H" glitch that Glinda and the Adepts had to overcome... DISENCHANTED!: Gehan wrote: >However, I dont like the way RPT keeps disenchanting everyone. Here's a >list of characters she's disenchanted: >Tattypoo/Queen Orin Of course I agree on this... :) >Sir Hokus/Prince of Corumbia Even *her own* characters aren't safe! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JANUARY 6, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-02-2000 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:11:45 GMT David Godwin: >There is no democracy, and there are no >elections before Jenny Jump comes along. Well, it's not really an election, but the Winkies themselves select the Tin Woodman as their new ruler. >They are ruled by a benevolent >despot, and the Emerald City has no trace of a parliament building. Well, most of the main characters advise the Queen, but that's more along the lines of a royal council than a Parliament, I suppose. J. L. Bell: > We could have all sorts of fun with the discrepancy between >chronological and developmental maturity in a land without aging. For >instance, do the parents of an Ozian toddler suffer through sixty years of >the terrible two's before they manage to get their child to grow up? Or >does the choice to stop aging itself require a certain amount of maturity? >When does a person who need never die enter midlife? Well, the idea of how a person stops aging is never really addressed. It might very well require some maturity. I know that Baum stated in _Tin Woodman_ that no one in Oz, even a baby, ever ages, but this might well have been altered to avoid situations like the one you mentioned. Perhaps everyone reaches the "stop-growing age" mentioned by Neill, and then chooses whether or not to age after that. This does seem to be an area that could lead to some interesting writing. Justin Richards: >The Scalet Prince of Oz---I am down to the last three chapters on this. >Jason and Dusty the Golden Retriver (my characters) go to Ev where they >meet >Jinnicky the Red Jinn and they take a ride in his Jinnerinisha which >tunnels >underground to OZ. Dusty and a dalmation have some adventures in Bunbury, >while Dorothy and Kiki Aru are stuck in the Gnome Kingdom with Gloma the >Witch of the Black Forest! >Ozma has gone to Telracs, a kingdom where they are at war with another >kingdom to stop the war. But Prince Derred has his heart set on Princess >Cinnomin (spelled that way on purpose) while they must stop Zog's brother >Zog-A-Nog from destroying Oz and capturing Trot and Cap'n Bill. Coincidentally enough, a brother of Zog was the main villain in an Oz story that I had started writing back in seventh grade. That story was also to contain some adventures in Bunbury. In the part I had written, some ducks living in a swamp to the east of the WWW's castle discovered that the castle was uninhabited, and a duck named Quasto joins up with some other creatures to investigate. Once there, they encounter a sorceror (Zog's brother) who captures most of them, but Quasto, a frog named Kroker, and a fish named Dr. Wisto escape, and make their way to Bunbury, where they are captured. There was also an American boy in the story, who journeyed to Oz in the company of a flying carpet that used to belong to the Red Jinn. I doubt that manuscript will ever be completed, but I might use some of its ideas in a later work. Dave Hardenbrook: > >In _Merry Go Round_, doesn't Ozma remember the Unicorn from her time with > >Lurline's band? > >Hippikaloric, I hope not! Ozma's non-memory of her life in Lurline's >band is a plot device in the third book in my trilogy... > >Might this have been in (non-Canonical and so I don't feel so guilty >about contradicting it) _Mysterious Chronicles of Oz_? I seem to >have a memory...) I'm pretty sure it was in _Merry Go Round_, when Ozma encounters the Unicorn in Pax-on-Argent. Someone who has that book handy can check. Of course, it's possible that Ozma just has vague memories of her time with Lurline's band, not remembering anything in much detail. Along much the same lines, in _Lost King_, she remembers hiding out in Morrow with her father, when she must have been a baby at the time, according to Mombi in _Land_. Recently, I was thinking about the Wizard's name. While it's possible that Baum just came up with random names to fit the desired initials, at least three of the names (Zoroaster, Isaac, and Emmanuel) have religious significance. Since the Wizard was hailed as the savior of Oz at the time of his arrival, there might be something significant in the choice of names, but maybe not. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:30:03 EST Subject: Oz Gehan: Ozma's history is a little muddled. I'll put Thompson's statement about her living for almost a thousand years in th same drawer with her usual window dressing. Since my goal is to create a Unified History of Oz, the current answer that best satisfies the most books is that Ozma is a regular little girl, but that Ozma's mother is at least part-fairy. Rumors, and other fairies named Ozma, help to give her the illusion of eternity. Or possibly she is a fusion, a fairy who has inhabited a mortal girl. Age, experience and wisdom do not always go together, however. The president of the company I work for is younger than several of the people there, but he is the best programmer I have ever seen. David Godwin: Baum's vision of Oz has been discussed at great length. To him, Oz was probably a Utopia, without the need for many of the things which drive a capitalist democracy. People are content. There is no need to do anything else. Ozma does have absolute power, but she never makes mistakes, so her rule is more efficient. It's entirely possible that Oz was Baum's version of heaven. Everything is perfect (or near to), so many of the conventions which defined his reality are simply not necessary. I do not think that Baum is casting Ozma or Lurline as any God or Christ figure, though. John Bell: Thanks for the message of support! :-) You might have gotten to my website after I shut down my computer. It was my sole concession to Y2K. It should work now, though. Try it again and let me know. I want to get these available to people. :-) _Number of the Beast_ is a novella written by Robert A. Heinlein. It supposes that there are a near-infinite number of Univserses, many of which are created by out own thoughts. One of these is Oz. It's based on the books, but is slightly different. Oz is surrounded by the Deadly Desert, but the desert beyond Oz goes on forever. Time seems to have stood still since _The Scarecrow of Oz_. Nathan: Money in Oz has been discussed before. I quote from myself from the Ozzy Digest, March 17 - 23, 1999 > Former Digester Eric Gjovaag wrote an excellent commentary about money in > an issue of the Baum Bugle. Essentially, he said that the value of money > had been depressed after Ozma ascended the throne. According to Eric, > Ozzies for the most part grow or make what they need, and trade for the > rest. Eric downplays the idea in _Emerald City_ that all items of > production are sent to the Emerald City for redistribution. However, money > remains in small amounts to fill in the gaps when things are slightly out > of balance. Trivia: The above quote was in itself a re-wording of another quote by yours truly from May 13, 1996. Prior to this digest, the phrase "fill in the gap" has only appeared four time in the four-year history of the Digest. Twice by myself. :-) ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 06:16:57 GMT Lisa: >Being that THE WIZARD OF OZ is OFFICIALLY 100 years old, will there be >anything *NEW* to see this year about OZ at all ? ( movie, book, biography >etc..... ) Well, the Oz Club is planning on publishing _Hidden Prince_, the winner of their manuscript contest. Gehan: >However, I dont like the way RPT keeps disenchanting everyone. Here's a >list of characters she's disenchanted: > >The Scarecrow/Chang Wang Woe(she ALMOST disenchanted him) >Peg Amy >Urtha the Flowery Princess/Princess of Perhaps City >Tora the Tailor/King Pastoria >The forest maiden/Princess from 'The Giant Horse of Oz' >Tattypoo/Queen Orin >Sir Hokus/Prince of Corumbia > >There are many more in other books, which I cant quite place my finger on. >I >personally dont like her iedia of enchanting and DISenchanting people, >because it CAN get quite annoying at times.....especially if the character >was one fo your favourites.....It must be a habit of hers. The whole >Tattypoo/Orin theory doesnt fit in with the Oz Books, and the Sir >Hokus/Prince of Corumbia theory totally contradicts 'The Royal Book of Oz'. >I also dont like the way she makes people forget their past whenever >they're >transformed. The Sir Hokus thing seems to be a change that even Thompson herself later regretted. Note that she makes a brief mention of Sir Hokus (not the Yellow Knight) as being among the Emerald City celebrities trapped by Badmannah. Of course, Neill also uses the old Sir Hokus in his books. As for Tattypoo/Orin, while I know that some Digesters are bothered by this change, I don't know that it "doesn't fit in with the Oz Books." Really, Baum effectively discarded the character after his first few books, so I suppose we can't fault Thompson too heavily for changing her. Of course, Dave Hardenbrook's main objection is that Thompson seemed to have a problem with there being any main characters in Oz that weren't young, beautiful princes or princesses. The restoration of Urtha bothered me somewhat; I can't exactly see why she would have wanted to give up her flower fairy form, which had some distinct advantages (unless it was done so she could bear children, but I doubt Thompson had that in mind). Thompson DIDN'T change the Scarecrow's form, and I don't really think that the criticism of Tora being disenchanted is entirely valid, since the whole point of Tora was to be the enchanted form of Pastoria (even the name reflects this, as Dorothy points out within the text). Transformation does seem to be a bit of an over-used plot device within Thompson's books, though, and they're often treated in much the same way. >1908 - Grampa in Oz, The Lost King of Oz & The Hungry Tiger of Oz I don't really think this works for _Lost King_. There wasn't a fully-formed movie industry in Hollywood back in 1908, was there? >I also think that although the wicked witches conquered the four countries >BEFORE the Wizard came to Oz, Mombi didnt turn King Pastoria into a tailor >untill AFTER the Wizard came to Oz, though she may have turned Pajuka into >a >goose before. In _Lost King_, Pajuka states that, after she transformed him, she sent him away and enchanted the King. My guess is that she did both transformations in close succession. Ruth Berman: >(Nathan suggested >that Tora's tailor shop itself contradicts the generalization, but I don't >think it can be really considered a "store." He's selling a service rather >than a stock of "diversified goods for retail sale.") That's true. Are there any shops that would definitely be considered stores within the Oz series? The goods shop in _Jack Pumpkinhead_ strikes me as a possible example, but that didn't appear until after _Lost King_. Dave Hardenbrook: >Jellia tells me that the calendar in use in Oz divides the years into >BC (= Before Crash, i.e. that killed the WWE) and AD (= After Dorothy). In _Disenchanted Princess_, Melody Grandy occasionally refers to "the such-and-such year of Ozma's reign," which might be a reasonable calendar for Oz. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: Ozisus@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:32:22 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 Just a quick notes to assure anyone interested that the IWOC 2000 calendars are in and orders are being filled. In honor of the centennial, we packed this one with historical facts, and a fun cartoon illustrates some event from the associated month. "We" is quite proverbial, by the way. Lee Jenkins did every lick of the work and gets all the resulting applause and roses thrown at her feet. Anyone who hasn't yet gotten Cooking In Oz has no idea what they are missing. An utterly marvelous and engaging book. I wrote a review on Amazon.com if you want detail. It can be purchase from the co-author's web site, too. (Elaine Willingham) at http://www.beyondtherainbow2oz.com/ Anyone interested in making a $500 contribution to the centennial in the interest of physical fitness? Adventures in Oz is headquartered in Indianapolis just a stone's throw from Bloomington. If we could cover that amount in an honorarium, Cheryl could have us all Ozercising at centennial. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:54:09 -0800 From: Douglas Silfen Subject: For Ozzy Digest Subject: For Ozzy Digest Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:36:20 -0800 From: Douglas Silfen To: DaveH47@mindspring.com CC: duglor I haven't written in over a year and a half to the digest- i will start up again..so here is the survey..filled out... >Fill in this survey to get to know each other's opinions better. Name : Douglas Silfen Sex : Male, Married, Age 35 >How did you ever get to know about Oz? Well it was the movie of course. I saw it as a child and watched it every year on tv. I did not read ANY Oz book until i was 28!! How's that eh? >Fav. Oz Character and why? - I'm been thinking on this one and thought "which character do i need to have in every Oz book?" My answer then becomes Dorothy..a character who reflects the window into Oz for someone out here in the real world. For a real Oz character from OZ..that would be The Tin Woodsman..because well..he's drawn nicely by most folks! Seriously, I think it is his because of his innocense and idealism and benevolent rule. >Least Fav. Oz Character and why? Jack Pumpkinhead has always come accross as being too goofy and stupid. >Fav. Oz Book/s - The Wizard of Oz, Ozma of Oz, Tik-Tok, The Magic of Oz.. I just read Paradox in Oz..and i really enjoyed it..waaay up there. Least Fav. Oz Book/s - Scalagawagons, Road to Oz, Royal Book of Oz >The MGM Movie or Return to Oz - The MGM Movie >The MGM Movie or the Oz Books? - The Oz Books are much more wonderous >Fav. Oz Author and why? - L Frank Baum >Least Fav. Oz Author and why? - John Neill..too odd and unsettling to read >Fav Illustrator Eric Shanower....Brilliant ..simply brilliant >Least Fav. Oz Illustrator - Some of the vanity press illustrators >Are the Oz Books your favourite Book Series? Hmm. No..I like the Lord of the Rings, if you consider that a series and the 3 books by Asimov- Caves of Steel, Naked Sun, and Robots of Dawn (known as the Robot novels)..then the Oz series!! >Is the MGM Movie your favourite movie ? No -- I like 5 better...Jaws..The Great Escape..Harakiri, Casablanca, and Gunga Din. >Have you written any Oz Books? If so, what are they? If not, do you intend >to write any? - No..I began one that my wife thought was wonderful..then my mind just went blank..i hope to finish one day.......... > >Are you a member of the Interntional Wizard of Oz Club? No. >Are you a member of the Royal Club of Oz? Nope. My interest in Oz goes from all out fan..to 2 year of hiatus to all out fan again. That's how most of my interests go. It is hard to join a club when you want to be the president one year and go missing for the next two :) >If you could change just ONE thing in the FF Books, what would it be? That at the end of THE SCARECROW OF OZ....the Tin woodman gives our hero perhaps a porcelin butterfly wing or something like that (a fake wing) so that the entire quest is not for naught. That would satisfy the quest in that book for me. Oh, and perhaps more about the Wicked Witches of the East and West and less about Mombi. >Fav. Oz Actor Bert Lahr >Fav. Oz Actress Margaret Hamilton Doug Silfen ====================================================================== From: "Bob Collinge" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 05:13:21 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" David Huluan: >Bob C.: >Fav. Oz Book/s - The Road to Oz, because we meet Polychrome, Patchwork Girl, >Glass Cat, Umm...Polychrome, yes, but we meet Scraps and the Glass Cat later in _Patchwork Girl_. In _Road_ the other continuing characters we meet are the Shaggy Man and Button-Bright.< I didn't mean that we meet Patchwork Girl and Glass Cat in "Road", but that these were also two of my favorite Oz books. I should have been more specific. Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 07:22:14 -0500 From: "Lisa M. Mastroberte" Subject: Ozzy Replies (Yay!) David Hulan: >Could you elaborate on that a bit? Cap'n Bill is one of my favorite >characters, and I'm not sure what you mean by "crossovers." Do you mean >_Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_? I'll agree that the former is fairly weak >(though better than _DotWiz_ or _Road_ or _L&A of Santa Claus_), but the >latter is probably my favorite Baum of all. Yes ... the crossovers from Sea Fairies and Sky Island. Trot at the time was basically a replacement for Dorothy, but as the books wore on she took on a personality of her own. Sea Fairies, however, was a really excellent book which I enjoyed a lot, I just don't like the fact that they come to Oz. Keep all the characters in their own land. :) Another thing, I loved _Santa Claus_ to bits. >If you could change just ONE thing in the FF Books, what would it be? - That >Glinda and her book of records should have known that the wizard was a >humbug from the start. He should have never been able to take over Oz. But >without him we don't have a story do we? But ... the man behind the curtain is all the fun! Besides, the Great Book of Records wasn't added until *after* _Wizard_. >I suspect that the answer for both the pro- and anti-Digest forces has less >to do with anything you're doing or not doing than with the people who >choose to be active on the Digest. Those who enjoy the kind of meticulous >exegesis of things Ozzy that we do here are going to like the Digest a lot; >those who find it boring (or who disagree strongly enough with some of the >opinions expressed that they find them offensive) aren't going to like it >much. All people can have their own opinions ... and if they don't like something, hey, they should be free to leave! However, I don't believe there was any sign of discomfort by any of these basher-members when they *were on the list*, they start to complain once they get off on various message boards, mailing lists, et cetera. (For example, I used to be on the Tiktok Talk mailing list and Chris claimed that digesters chased him off and we were not a friendly bunch) Lisa Marie: Wee, another Lisa on this list! :) >Being that THE WIZARD OF OZ is OFFICIALLY 100 years old, will there be >anything *NEW* to see this year about OZ at all ? ( movie, book, biography >etc..... ) Actually, in the movie slot, there's a movie being made for the Disney Channel called "Lion of Oz and the Badge of Courage", which is based on Roger S. Baum's book of the same name. It's not very consistent with the rest of the Oz books, but let's see how this movie turns out. Gehan: >Here's >a >list of characters she's disenchanted: >>The Scarecrow/Chang Wang Woe(she ALMOST disenchanted him) >Peg Amy Hey now ... that disenchantment was perfect for _Kabumpo_ and I like Peg Amy. :) >True there ARE >many things to do IN the Emerakd City, but surely Ozma and Dorothy would >have decided to take Betsy around the Land of Oz for her to see what it >looks like? Oz is a big place. There's plenty to do. Well, I need to head off. Good day, all! ~Lisa -- "Every man is the painter and sculptor of his own life." - S. John Chrysostom (+407) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:45:32 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 Justin: Hmm....I know Dorothy didnt seem to be happy untill the END of RTOZ, while Dorothy was happy nearly RIGHT throughout the MGM Movie. Anyway, Dorothy is younger in RTOZ, and she must have been terrified to find all her Oz friends, the Emerald City and all the people enchanted, the Yellow Brick Road all broken up, and Munchkinland turned into a dark forest. And she had to go through the Mombi's screaming heads scene, and then she had to risk herself as well as all her friends being turned into ornaments in the Gnome King's underground caverns. I know Dorothy was anxious to get home, and she was afarid of the Wicked Witch of the West in the MGM Movie, but she was older and her problems were NOTHING compared to Dorothy's in RTOZ. David(Hulan): >What is solved in RTO through a knock of the heels? Well, Dorothy clicked the magic heels of the Ruby Slippers and wished that the entire Emerald City and its inhabitants will be restored. She also took away Mombi's magic powers by means of her Ruby Slippers. I think THATS what Bob meant. But then again, there was no OTHER way for her to do it, since the Emerald City and all the people were ENCHANTED by means of the Ruby Slippers, and I thought it was BRILLIANT, the way she trerived them from the Nome King, and used their powers wisely and well. Lisa Marie: >Being that THE WIZARD OF OZ is OFFICIALLY 100 years old, will there be >anything *NEW* to see this year about OZ at all ? ( movie, book, biography >etc..... ) Well, Tim Burton's 'LOst in Oz' series, which is based on the FF(mostly Baum's books) is coming up this fall. And I'm sure there are SEVERAL Oz Books to be published....I think Dave's 'The Unknown Witch of Oz' will also be released this year..... Ruth Berman and Enid Blyton: Well, your right. RPT DOES adapt Lewis Carrol's iedias in several of her books. I've also noticed her style of writing, and her way of using puns is more of a 'British' style.....much like Lewis Carrol and Enid Blyton(who would have made a SPLENDID Oz Historian, as she is the world's BEST children's author. If she wrote any Oz Books, the Books will be famous RIGHT THROUGHOUT the world, I'm sure.....She's very popular in SriLanka and many Asian/Diverse countries.....Her stories have also been translated into many diverse languages, so I'm sure she would have been a SPLENDID Oz Author, as she has a VERY VERY vivid imagination, as clearly seen in her fairy stories. Sccot Andrew: >Gehan: Where have you been able to order _Purple Prince_? That's the >only Del-Rey I don't have. A person called Dave M. was selling a Del Rey copy of 'Purple Prince' and a Del Rey copy of 'Pirates'.....I wonder where he obtained them from. David (Godwin): >We are all familiar with the line about "lions and tigers and bears" from >the MGM film. Immediately after chanting this refrain, Dot & friends meet >the Cowardly Lion. But they never meet any tigers or bears. I dont think the scriptwriters necessarily WANTED Dot and her friends to come across tigers and bears. But, it'd also eb wiered to have a jungle where ONLY lions live, so they probably added tigers and bears, since Tinman says there are MOSTLY lions, tigers and bears. Maybe the tigers and bears were afraid of the lion's roar, or didnt dare to attack Dot and her friends since they saw Dot's Ruby Slippers, or because they considered EVERY lion a 'King of the Forest'.............. >I think in my >sequential reading of the works of Ms. Thonpson, it was at about this point >that I began to reach the opinion that only Baum's books describe the "real" >Oz, and anything that came after that is merely a children's fantasy written >by someone who wasn't in the know the way LFB was. I USED to only accept Baum's books as official, but now I accept his books, RPT's books as well as Rachel Cosgrove Paye's books..... ~Gehan~ ================================================= Whenever I feel afraid I hold my head erect and whistle a happy tune so no one will suspect, I'm afraid While shivering in my shoes I strike a careless pause and whistle a happy tune so no one ever knows, I'm afraid The result of this deception is very strange to tell for when I fool the people I fear I fool myself as well I whistle a happy tune and every single time the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm, not afraid! Make believe your brave and the trick will take you far You may be as brave as you make believe you are You may be as brave as you make believe you are -- I Whistle a Happy Tune (The King and I) ====================================================================== From: "Kenneth R. Shepherd" Subject: ozzy things Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:20:08 -0500 The chronology for the BCF: ******WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR "LOST KING" AHEAD******** Day 1 - Pajuka & Mombi meet again in afternoon - Snip kidnaped - night in forest - General Whiffenpuff leaves for Emerald City at night Day 2 - Snip & party encounter weenix around noon, meet Hoopers, cross sea - Catty Corners - they travel at night until Mombi throws Snip down well Day 3 - Snip arrives in Blankenburg - he is awakened by Blanks about 9 AM - he meets Tora and the golden feather flies off - Dorothy leaves Perhaps City ("On the same bright morning that the golden goose feather had come flashing down into Ozma's garden") - she visits America, brings Humpy to life, returns, meets Kabumpo - Ozma left a message by Pajuka's feather at breakfast - she & court wished to Morrow - Dorothy's & Snip's parties meet around noon - rendezvous (with Mombi & Pajuka) at Palace in afternoon - Ozma & Co. arrive in EC two hours after Kabumpo's party - Pastoria disenchanted - abdication Day 4 - Parade in honor of the King of Oz - Mombi extinguished - Snip leaves for Kimbaloo with General Whiffenpuff, Invisible Cook & Kabumpo after lunch Note: According to the text, Pajuka's penfeather does not actually leave Snip's grasp until the same morning that Snip arrives in Blankenburg. Since the text states that "it was morning and nearly nine o'clock" before Snip woke up in Blankenburg and lost the feather, we must assume that Ozma breakfasted rather late that day. ****************END SPOILERS***************** ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:38:50 -0500 (EST) From: cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 > Scott H.: > > > The MGM movie is a more successful effort at movie-making, but RTO is more > > > in keeping with the spirit of the books, and I enjoyed it more. > >I'm not even sure I agree with this statement. I think RTO does have a > >huge weakness in that everything is solved through a knock of the > >heels--the shoes are too powerful to be interesting or dramatic. > > What is solved in RTO through a knock of the heels? Or did you mean in the > MGM movie? If the latter, then the "it was all a dream" ending means that > you can't apply normal dramatic criteria to the ending of the dream. It's true for both of them, but dorothy's "I wish all of us from Oz to return there safely, and for the Emerald City and all the people in it to be restored to life" kind of finishes things in one anticlimactic fell swoop. Gehan: > You may wonder how Ozma says she was with Lurline's fairy band a thousand > years ago, if she was born in 188?. Simple! Lurline could have de-aged Ozma > back to a little baby and injected her into King Pastoria's wife's womb, as > most Oz fans believe. I think your last phrase is an overstatement. It was Melody Grandy's idea and there may be many who agree with her, but (particularly if we count all those NOT on the digest), "most" is probably wrong. > The book also draws on Baum's stageplay of "The Wizard," in naming > the King Pastoria, and does an interesting job of extrapolating from > Baum's very brief mentions of how the witches did away with Ozma's > father to come up with the title character. Pastoria was, of course, mentioned in Land. Scarecrow: "But isn't Pastoria dead and gone?" Glinda: "That is the popular belief." I think RPT was going on this. > were assuming (without wanting to specify) that carnivores in a > country like Oz must be morally able to eat intelligent prey (although > for omnivores the case would be less compelling). In Lewis's Narnia > books, there is a sharp difference between Talking Beasts and > ordinary speechless, unintelligent beasts, but the Oz authors probably > weren't thinking along that line. I thought there was an implication that they got meat that grows on trees, like the lunch pail trees, only different. Or perhaps that's unique to Ooogaboo. Scott ====================================================================== From: JPENN319@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:30:09 EST Subject: Oz and Dark Side of the Moon Can you tell me where I can find information about playing the movie and Pink Floyd's Dark side of the moon CD at the same time??? I've heard that if you start them at certain times it appears to coincide with the movie. I'm interested in trying this, but don't know enough detail's to attempt it. John ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:47:56 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: our goose is cooked charset=ISO-8859-1 David Godwin wrote: <> Your analysis is conflating two aspects of the classic American system that, despite what our national ideology says, can be separated. One is capitalist entrepreneurship, and the other democratic government. But your question of why Baum's documented activities in both fields aren't reflected more in his most famous children's books is a very interesting one. Baum did indeed run several businesses, starting with the chickens he raised as a teenager. But he also experienced several business failures, including one shortly before he wrote ROAD and EMERALD CITY, the books that give us the most detail about Oz's economy and the worst picture of America's. His father had also lost his oil company and his fortune. So I don't think Baum felt whole-hearted enthusiasm about the American way of business. Indeed, when I look at the one enterprise that Baum repeatedly returned to over life--theater (and its offshoot, movies)--it strikes me that he was NOT primarily motivated by money. At least, if money's what you want, that field's a lousy one to go plowing in. As I recall, he saw one early production's sets and costumes burn up in a fire, another company have its funds stolen, and one of his Oz musicals fail. Did that enlighten/discourage him? Did that make him more careful about his investments? No, he later assembled the elaborate combination of movies, lecture, and live drama called Radio Plays; that production got good reviews but sent him into bankruptcy because it was so expensive to mount and tour. Baum's love of theater also affected his other, less risky business activities. As we know, he wrote many books with an eye toward theatrical adaptation, or took dramas as his inspiration. Even his chief area of commercial expertise, shop-window display, is simply the most theatrical aspect of retailing. Thus, while I think Baum's showed "hard work, imagination, and [faith in, if not success at] being in the right place at the right time," he didn't necessarily direct those qualities toward making money. He had another yardstick for success: audience acclaim. He made money in order to tell stories, not the other way around. Baum's books are full of heroes who are also plucky, persevering, and resourceful: Dorothy, the Wizard, Trot and Cap'n Bill, and so on. They have all the qualities of Horatio Alger heroes, but different goals. They don't care about finding a place in the professional world. They want to get home, or survive an adventure, or restore a family. And who's to say those aren't more important goals--especially for young readers? Baum's political picture of Oz is as far from standard American ideals as his economic picture, despite his and his relatives' participation in the democratic process. He poked a lot of fun at the institution of monarchy, and plays with lots of different ways of choosing a ruler, but (unlike Neill's ghost-writing editor) he didn't depict elections, legislatures, or other elements of republican government. I think Baum made Oz and his other fairylands into benevolent monarchies because he was writing for kids. The social structure kids are most familiar and comfortable with is the family. And the American middle-class family in Baum's time WAS a Marxist monarchy. The parents (usually the father) owned everything but distributed it free for everyone's benefit. The parents made the decisions, but again for everyone's benefit. When Baum wrote for older audiences, he exhibited different attitudes toward politics and business. His pseudonymous TAMAWACA FOLKS for adults revolves around small-town corruption and, I believe, electioneering. His equally pseudonymous BOY FORTUNE HUNTERS series for teenage boys, readers about to enter the business world, is fueled by the heroes' unquenchable lust for wealth. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> I hate to admit this to someone younger than myself, but being older doesn't necessarily mean being wiser. In Ozma's case, she seems to have been (a) turned into a baby with a baby's lack of memory and/or (b) turned into a boy with no memory of her [his?] previous life. And all that time Glinda was storing up knowledge. Thus, when we meet them, Glinda has accumulated much more experience than Ozma has. But Ozma may have forgotten more than Glinda ever knew! Gehan Cooray wrote: <> There are indeed. Note that in each of these cases the person is disenchanted into royalty, and in many an old or unusual person is changed into a young and traditionally beautiful one. If Thompson had kept writing, I half suspect, there would be far fewer ordinary-looking middle-aged commoners left in Oz, and lots more princes and princesses. Gehan Cooray dated: <<1909 - The Gnome King of Oz>> Doesn't Peter think of Charles Lindbergh (who became famous in 1927) in this book? Or perhaps that's just Thompson's own reference. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> I'm a bit confused by the terminology here. Are you saying that Dorothy was born three years before Betsy, but that by coming to Oz and not growing she let Betsy grow older? (If so, I might reverse the terms, and use "biologically" to refer to how much someone's body has aged and "chronologically" to how many calendar years have passed since her birth.) David Godwin wrote: <> Interesting thought. Obviously, the lyricists were looking for words to chant ("Ocelots, asps, and wild boar, oh my!" doesn't run off the tongue), but a quick flip through the book might have inspired them. The travelers also meet a bear and a tiger in chapter 23 of WIZARD, at least according to the art and text together. David Hulan asked: <> An offhand claim on TikTokTalk by a certain ardent desktop publisher of Oz books. It's all blown over, but the comment was enough to intrigue David Godwin about the dark and turbulent (and mythical) history of this list. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> I think the best explanation for the Wizard's lack of foresight in LOST KING is not that's he feel "jealous" [as Thompson states on 111], but that he feels *guilty* about his role in interrupting the Pastorian dynasty. He "did not like to recall the part he had played in the affair at all" [120]. "He always felt uneasy and unhappy when the old witch [Mombi] was mentioned" [119], and indeed he starts acting "nervously" [113] and "uneasily" [114] shortly after the Scarecrow mentions Morrow, a kingdom the Wizard "remembered...perfectly" [111]. He desperately wants to atone for his earlier wrong by finding Pastoria, so much so that he stops thinking as well as he usually does. The Wizard indeed shows a jealous streak later when he's working alongside Jinnicky and Waddy. It seems significant that he's working *alongside* them; the stakes in the rivalry are simply bragging rights because they're not trying to defeat each other. In Baum's books, as in Neill's and others, the Wizard's pride in his magic and pleasure in his audiences are clear. But why don't we see that competitiveness in Baum's stories? Perhaps because the Wizard never meets a *male* magic-worker who's a friendly rival. Dr. Pipt is quickly rendered powerless, and Ugu, Kiki Aru, and various Imps and Nomes are enemies. The Wizard seems to accept being second to Glinda and (in a different way) Ozma, but he may well feel competitive toward another man. It's a boy thing. You make a very good point about Thompson not using Shaggy and Cap'n Bill. Another mature male she almost never takes on an adventure is the Tin Woodman (he has a role in OZOPLANING because of tradition and marketing, and injects the only clear dose of Oz into ENCHANTED ISLAND). Baum got some good laughs out of all those men and their quirks, but their personalities didn't lend themselves to Thompson's more knockabout form of comedy, in which most men are just bearded kids. On the question of money in LOST KING, Thompson seems ambivalent about the issue. She makes clear references to money and shops, but she also keeps trying to present the economy as quaintly non-commercial. Kinda Jolly "had made a great fortune in buttons" [13], and Rosa Merry "almost as much of a fortune in bouquets" [14--a lady mustn't earn more than her husband!]. These fortunes are amassed in "coins" [17]. Yet, as Nathan DeHoff noted, in this same section Thompson also declares, "There are no stores in Oz" [16]. The king's purchase of his dinner similarly points in all directions. Kinda Jolly "had been to market" [37--see also Mombi's "market woman" comment on 59], but Pajuka "had come straight from a neighboring farm" [21]. The king doesn't seem to buy the goose with his coins because he reports, "Cost me a thousand gold buttons" [38]. The economic picture seems clearer when the scene shifts to the Emerald City. (Blankenburg clearly isn't a free market.) Pastoria declares he'll open "the finest tailoring shop in Oz," and for several chapters he's been planning suits for Snip, Dorothy, and his other friends. "I'll make you *all* suits," he promises his new friends [273]. And all this is gratis, as life in the capital of Oz usually is. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> Snip also "had a feeling that there was something human about" this goose [21]. That seems to be Thompson's way of reassuring us that formerly human geese are different from natural, edible geese. Which is not to say I feel very reassured. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> ****SPOILER**** The two men are disenchanted simultaneously when Snip throws the robe around Tora and says, "I command you to resume your natural shape!" [267] To me that implies their transformations were part of the same spell, and thus happened together. Pajuka has testified, "we were in a small greenwood...when you changed me to a goose. But as you drove me a way immediately, I never knew what became of the King." That might imply separate spells except that Mombi immediately concluded, "Then it was green magic!" [51] That indicates certainty that she'd transformed Pastoria on the same occasion when she'd enchanted Pajuka. Otherwise, she wouldn't have been so sure it was in the same place. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> There's no evidence that "most Oz fans" believe this, or even believe Pastoria had a wife. She's certainly never mentioned in LOST KING. You don't accept Snow's story of Ozma's adoption in MAGICAL MIMICS, as I recall, but that's still a common canonical starting-point for the question of Ozma's parentage. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:13:39 -0500 From: "John W. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 David Hulan wrote: > Well, no. But then stage musicals don't have great music either, at least > IMHO. Not if you're going by the standard of Mozart or Puccini or Verdi or > Wagner. I consider the songs from "Shall We Dance" as good as any the > Gershwins did anywhere else; ditto for "Follow the Fleet" and Berlin. Well, that's it. I'd put Kern and Rogers at a generally higher level, musically, than Berlin or anything Gershwin wrote for the stage outside of "Porgy & Bess". And, of course, it partly depends on where you draw the line; I've already mentioned "Bitter Sweet" and "The Duchess of Chicago". -- -John W. Kennedy -rri0189@ibm.net Life is very rough-and-tumble for a humble diseuse; One can betray ones troubles never whatever occurs. Night after night, have to look bright whether you're well or ill; people must laugh their fill. You mustn't sleep till dawn comes creeping. Though I never really grumble, life's a jumble indeed; and in my efforts to succeed, I've had to formulate a creed. I believe in doing what I can, in crying when I must, in laughing when I choose. Heigh-ho! If love were all, I should be lonely. I believe the more you love a man, the more you give your trust, the more you're bound to lose, although, when shadows fall, I think if only somebody splendid really needed me, someone affectionate and dear, cares would be ended if I knew that he wanted to have me near. But I believe that since my life began, the most I've had is just a talent to amuse. Heigh-ho! If love were all.... Though life buffets me obscenely, it serenely goes on. Although I question its conclusion, illusion is gone. Frequently I put a bit by, safe for a rainy day; nobody here can say to what, indeed, the years are leading. Fate may often treat me meanly, but I keenly pursue a little mirage in the blue; determination helps me through. I believe in doing what I can, in crying when I must, in laughing when I choose. Heigh-ho! If love were all, I should be lonely. I believe the more you love a man, the more you give your trust, the more you're bound to lose, although, when shadows fall, I think if only somebody splendid really needed me, someone affectionate and dear, cares would be ended if I knew that he wanted to have me near. But I believe that since my life began, the most I've had is just a talent to amuse. Heigh-ho! If love were all.... -- If Love Were All (Bitter Sweet) ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:35:28 EST Subject: Oz Gehan: People forgetting their past when transformed might be part of the enchantment. This would help assure the spellcaster that the transformation would be permanent. The victim would never know to get "un-enchanted" and friends and family would look in vain for the victim. Ozzy Digest Archive: I finally found the problem today (01-05-00). The name of my virtual directory was incorrect. Unfortunately, our ISP is down, so even though the link is finally fixed, nobody can get it. Try it anyway, though. It may be fixed by now. Thanks, Dave, for discovering this also. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 22:10:34 -0600 Subject: Oz & LFB From: "David Godwin" Ruth Berman wrote: >David Godwin: Interesting set of questions on Baum's politics. A part >of the answer is probably that it's an exaggeration to describe him as >"aggressively" looking for chances to find something that "would finally >pay off big time." Yes, I'll admit that I frequently exaggerate to make a point. It's a fault I should probably strive to overcome. But the preface of _Our Landlady_ does speak of Baum's "western boosterism" and the introduction quotes him as saying that, in the Dakota territory, "opportunities are constantly arising where an intelligent man may profit." His behavior in Aberdeen, as for example his attempts to open a bazaar and start clubs that would need the goods to be sold there - "genuine Yankee enterprise in advertising," he called it - are indicative of the entrepreneurial spirit and seem dissonant with the way of life in Oz. Whether he retained these attitudes in Chicago and California, or while he was writing the Oz books, I do not know, and that was part of the question. John W. Kennedy wrote: >Political thought cannot be mapped by marking two points, >one marked "Democrat" and one "Republican", and then drawing the line >determined by those two points....It is always a grave mistake to assume that political polarities of >another place or time are similar to the polarities of ones own, and the >19th century spent a good deal more time that we realize regretting >itself. I mentioned that Baum was a Republican as a factor to consider, not, as you appear to think, to form the foundation of my whole interpretation of his outlook. His party affiliation was incidental to all the other points I made. Forget that I used the word "Republican." Let's consider that part of my question irrelevant. Nevertheless, is it not realistic to assume that, Republican or Democrat or something else, Baum did not believe that the United States should be ruled by a king, even though Oz is ruled by a princess? Can we not assume on the basis of his actions in Aberdeen and elsewhere that Baum believed in the virtues of the free enterprise system as opposed to the socialism of Oz with its public storehouses, with each giving and taking according to his ability and need? It's not like the socialism/capitalism dichotomy was unheard of. The first volume of _Das Kapital_ appeared in 1867. The Socialist Party existed in the United States in the late 19th century and Baum could presumably have joined it if his sympathies had been in that direction. I'm not so sure that the polarities in question here are really all that particular to any time or place, or that I am imposing year 2000 modes of thought on the people of 100 years ago. Nevertheless, you're right that modern party stereotypes do not necessarily apply beyond the present day. Apparently, I should not have mentioned that Baum was a Republican, because it seems to have drawn attention away from what I was trying to say. >Just because we are told today that >freedom = capitalism = material prosperity does not make it so; they are >not inseparably linked even as philosophies, let alone as fact. The point is not the factuality of this belief but whether Baum believed it. On the basis of his actions and statements, I think he did (at least if you substitute the term "free enterprise" for "capitalism"). However, the contrary point of view seems to be expressed in the Oz books. Also, I'm curious as to what you mean when you say that "the 19th century spent a good deal more time that we realize regretting itself." I have no reason to dispute this statement, but I'd be interested to hear a few examples. I haven't encountered this phenomenon myself in any of the literature of the period, not that I'm well read in that area. Now, since my poor presentation and statement of the question have resulted in its being essentially discounted, I will restate it in less dramatic terms: Is there not a contradiction between Baum's beliefs and life style on the one hand and his utopian vision of Oz on the other? How about his evidently enthusiastic participation in the entrepreneurial system vs. the no-money, free-food system of Oz? Does the assertion that Oz is an American fairyland clash with the fact that Oz is ruled by an absolute monarch? Is there a contradiction here or not? Inasmuch as no one volunteered an answer to this question, but merely challenged the question itself, I will go ahead and answer it myself, at least tentatively: Yes, there is a contradiction and Baum was fully aware of it. However, he was also aware of the fact that there is a difference between fantasy and reality. His idealized visions of Oz include rule by a monarch and free necessities in exchange for little effort, but also immortality and the absence of disease. One is as realistic as the other. Absolutely authoritarian rule could never work in the "real" world because of the imperfections of human beings, but it can work in Oz because Ozma is a fairy whose goodness, kindness, and love for her people are beyond question. It's possible to avoid working really hard in Oz because meals grow on trees, already prepared, as do most of the things one might need. If it doesn't grow on trees, you can go to the public storehouse and get it. The outside world is lacking in such trees, and the storehouse idea cannot work because, unlike the citizens of Oz, people in our world would be apt to take more than they needed, probably even for the purpose of resale after they had secured a monopoly on certain items. In short, economic and political systems that are doomed to imperfection and failure in the outside world can work well in Oz because of the nature of the place and its people. More Ozzy contradictions: Most of us on this list are continually challenged by the apparent contradictions within Baum's Oz books (let alone the rest of the FF). Some regard this as an interesting exercise; I suspect that many others find it frustrating and provoking. But it doesn't seem to have bothered Baum very much. If you think the books are bad, consider the musical play and the motion pictures. In the play, Toto becomes a cow named Imogene, and the poppies are killed by a snowstorm conjured by the GWN (foreshadowing the MGM film). In _His Majesty the Scarecrow of Oz_, the film begins telling the story of _The Scarecrow of Oz_, but without mentioning Jinxland. Krewel is evidently king of Oz. The witch employed by the king to turn his daughter's heart to ice has a slave, namely "little Dorothy from Kansas." Pon and Dorothy run away. In their travels, the two of them rescue the Scarecrow from the beanpole (which Dorothy managed alone in WWiz). In this film, by the way, there is nothing about the Silver Islanders. The Scarecrow is clearly shown being brought to life as the result of an enchantment by fairies. Then the group discovers the Tin Woodman rusted into position in front of his tin castle. The Wizard comes along in a wagon drawn by the Sawhorse and imprisons the witch in a can. All comes right in the end when everything is restored, Gloria is allowed to marry Pon, and the Scarecrow is crowned king of Oz. So there is not a whole lot of consistency with the books. I suppose we should remember this when and if we start criticizing modern-day retellings of the Oz stories. - David G. (the G stands for "Grave Error") ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:37:50 -0600 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-02 & 04-2000 01-02: Gehan: >No, what I meant was that if Ozma has existed since the beginning of time, >Glinda must have existed even before Ozma, because Glinda is wiser and has >more experiance. Again, I don't think that conclusion follows from the evidence. Five hundred years of ruling the Quadling Country and being adviser to the kings of Oz would almost certainly result in more wisdom and experience relevant to ruling than five thousand years of dancing in circles in a forest, which might be all Ozma had done. And this is assuming that Ozma remembers her life as a member of Lurline's band, which seems improbable (despite her remarks about the unicorn in _Merry-Go-Round_) based on the fact that she never refers to anything she learned then in the first 39 books. > Jean Marsh >doesnt even LOOK like Coo-ee-oh, since Baum stated that Coo-ee-oh appears to >be a young girl who's about 16-17 years of age.....and her personality is >TOTALLY different..... Doesn't look like, but to me her personality (as Princess Mombi) is more like Coo-ee-oh's than any of the other Oz villains. Kind of a nasty totalitarian ruler. Is there any way, by the bye, that you could suppress that long signature in second or subsequent postings to the Digest? David G.: As I think somebody remarked in the 01-04 Digest, the Republicans in the 1880s and 1890s were very different from the Republicans of today. They were still the party of Lincoln, not the party of Nixon. It's true that they favored the rich, but so did the Democrats (not unlike today); a big difference was that in those days racists gravitated to the Democrats rather than the Republicans as they do today. J.L.: A belated Happy Birthday! Nathan: >In _Merry Go Round_, doesn't Ozma remember the Unicorn from her time with >Lurline's band? It's certainly the easiest way to interpret what she says, but it's possible that it's something that she learned about at some point from conversations with other fairies (maybe at the gathering mentioned in _Magical Mimica_?) and doesn't really remember on her own. >Mooj does seem to be one of the more sinister Oz villains, from the little >we've seen of him. Of all the Oz villains, Mooj is the only one I remember finding scary when I read the book as a child. (Maybe Matiah as well, but I was younger when I read that book.) (The only time I "jumped" reading an Oz book, though, was the first time through _Rinkitink_ when I turned the page to the picture showing Inga encountering the giant in Kaliko's cavern.) I agree with your remarks about Thompson's version of the Wizard - this is particularly true in _Lost King_ and _Purple Prince_, less so in _Ozoplaning_. I'm not sure about Thompson's inability to write humble, resourceful straight men, though. Grampa, Tora, Benny (not exactly a man, but I think he qualifies), Sir Hokus, and Captain Salt all seem to fall into the same general character class as the post-Land Baum Wizard, Cap'n Bill, and Shaggy Man. And they're all pretty well done. >One part that I found fairly disturbing was that the Kimbles seemed to have >no problem with eating a talking goose. The books are never too clear on >where the meat in Oz comes from, but I think this is the only case in which >people are actually willing to have a sentient animal killed for food. Well, maybe, onstage. We might dismiss Jinjur's threat to have the Woggle-bug turned into turtle soup as a joke, but there's a reference in _Wishing Horse_ to Pigasus's having been captured by a farmer at one point with an eye to fattening him to eat. I concur with your analysis of the "there are no..." things in Oz. Virtually all, if not all, of those statements are presumably only true for limited areas of Oz, and possibly only for limited periods of time. (Perhaps an epizootic wiped out all the chickens in Oz, or at least the EC area, between _Wizard_ and _Ozma_? We know that chickens could die of disease as late as just before EC, since one of Billina's had done so since she'd last seen Dorothy.) Justin: Your Oz books sound interesting; let us know if any of them get published. >I have started typing up OJO IN OZ word-for-word and it's taken me two days >to do three and a half chapters. It would probably be more efficient to use a scanner and just correct the text, but maybe you don't have a scanner. (They're really cheap these days, though - under $100 for a quite usable one.) 01-04: Lisa Marie: >Being that THE WIZARD OF OZ is OFFICIALLY 100 years old, will there be >anything *NEW* to see this year about OZ at all ? ( movie, book, biography >etc..... ) There's the new Oz book being published by the IWOC, Gina Wickwar's _The Hidden Prince of Oz_. There may well be other non-fiction books published about Oz, though I don't know any specific titles. And BoW will be publishing _Glinda_ with color plates, which will complete their reprinting of all the Baum books with full color. And of course there's the Centennial Convention in Bloomington, IN, July 20-23, which all serious Oz fans should attend if at all possible. Gehan: Who's the forest maiden/Princess from _Giant Horse_ who's disenchanted? I don't recall any such, though maybe I'm forgetting - must be a very minor character if so. You left out Marygolden, who gets disenchanted _twice_ in _Yellow Knight_, and Ruggedo, who's disenchanted in _Handy Mandy_ - one probably shouldn't count all the ones who are enchanted and then disenchanted in the course of the same book in _Pirates_, _Purple Prince_, and _Ojo_. And I probably haven't remembered them all. I won't argue too seriously with your Oz chronology. I personally place _DotWiz_ and _Road_ in the same year, primarily because considering the lengths Ozma was willing to go to to get Dorothy to her birthday party in _Road_, it's hard to believe that she would have let a birthday go by with Dot absent. So I place _Ozma_ in the fall, _DotWiz_ in the spring of the following year, and _Road_ in the summer of that same year. And _Emerald City_ in the fall of that same year, probably, since I think it would most logically take place in the fall after Uncle Henry's harvest proved inadequate to make the mortgage payment, and again I wouldn't expect Ozma to let a birthday pass without Dorothy's presence. Of course, I can do this because I see no need to fit the Random Housies and other non-FF books set between _Wizard_ and _Emerald City_ into a coherent chronology; Tyler has a bigger problem. I would, however, stretch out the later books somewhat. Using your absolute dates (which may well be right, but could be a year or two either way without serious conflict with anything), if _Road_ takes place in 1901 then I don't think _Sky Island_ could be earlier than 1904, and more likely 1905 or 1906, because I find it hard to believe that Button-Bright was younger than 3 or older than 4 in _Road_, nor that he was younger than 7 or older than 8 in _Sky Island. You need a minimum of three and a maximum of five years between those two books, then, and another year before _Scarecrow_. As for the date of _Giant Horse_, I take your point, but I don't think you need to crowd all those other books into the narrow time gap you do. I think it's very possible that _Giant Horse_ takes place shortly after the events of _Royal Book_, and before those of any of the other Thompsons. I'd have to do a close analysis, but I don't think any character introduced after RB turns up in GH, nor do the intermediate books mention any of the characters whose status changes in GH. >So my guess is that Dorothy is actually 3 years older than Betsy >BIOLOGICALLY, but CHRONOLOGICALLY one year younger. Don't you mean that the other way round? Dorothy was born three years earlier, but her physical development is a year less. I agree with you about Tip's age, by the way. He seems rather too interested in the pretty girls in Jinjur's army for a 10-11 year old boy of the turn of the last century. Ruth: >Warren H. Baldwin: Oz's calendar system might be the same as ours i>n terms of months (for instance, the reference to Ozma's birthday as >coming in August), but is probably not the same in terms of years. IIRC, the reference to August is only in the "America" part of _Road_; in Oz the reference is only to the 21st. (Or possibly even that is by calculation - at least, there's a reference to the day of the month that allows it to be calculated that the birthday itself is the 21st; I'm not sure, and my copy of _Road_ is downstairs. I'll try to remember to check that the next time I'm there.) Scott C.: >Would there be any way to celebrate the works of March at the Oz convention >this summer? It would fit nicely into the track on "comparative literature/criticism" chaired by Angelica Shirley Carpenter. I don't know if she has all her slots filled yet or not. You or someone else who's interested could get in touch with her; I don't know if she has e-mail or not, but Jane Albright (Ozisus@aol.com) could tell you how to reach her. David G.: >In the book, after meeting the lion, they do meet tigers and bears in the >form of kalidahs, who have the bodies of bears and the heads of tigers. This reminds me that I recently wrote a short paper "On the Pronunciation of 'Kalidah'" for the Oz Research Group. If anybody here isn't a member of the ORG and would like to see it, e-mail me privately and I'll send a copy. I don't think it's quite appropriate to post the whole paper on the Digest, even though it's only a page long. Comments on _Lost King_: I reread this one long enough ago (not long after the _Grampa_ discussion started to peter out) that I've forgotten a lot of detailed comments that I might otherwise have made. (I didn't take notes.) I thought this the best of Thompson's early books the first time I read through the series as a kid and I haven't changed my mind in the course of many rereadings as an adult. Not until _Yellow Knight_ did she approach the same level of quality again, though most of her books after that (except for _Ozoplaning_) were as good or better. One point I remember I disagree with is her placing Trot's home in San Francisco. Maybe RPT never read _Sky Island_, but it's clear from that book that Trot didn't live in a city; in fact, she didn't even live in a village but a mile or more from the nearest settlement, and that was only a village. It might be that she lived on the SF peninsula, but the description of her home sounds to me more like the Southern California coast of Orange or San Diego counties. In _Glass Cat_ I placed her near Laguna Beach, but I'd accept anywhere from just north of San Diego to just south of Morro Bay, or from Monterey to Marin County, as long as it wasn't in the LA or San Francisco conurbations. (There's clearly a seaport nearby, so I don't think it's anywhere between Morro Bay and Monterey, or north of Marin.) It also has to be somewhere where there are cliffs of moderate height and offshore islands readily visible from them, but there are quite a few places like that along the California coast. Laguna Beach happens to fit the description quite well, but it's not the only place that does. Incidentally, if Trot really had told Dorothy about movies then it seems unlikely that _Scarecrow_ should be placed as early as 1904, as Gehan did in his chronology. I know that movies were around that early, but I don't think they'd be found in a village. Of course, Trot may just have heard about them and not seen them herself. Dorothy's sudden growth spurt is an interesting phenomenon; the hard part to explain is why there was what seems to have been about an hour's lag between her arrival back in California and her suddenly starting to grow. David Hulan ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:36:38 EST Subject: OZ ANEW ! JOIN : WIZARDOFOZ2000@ONELIST.COM 1 RULE : NO LIST RIVALRY ! I HAVE NO PLANS ON MAKING MY LIST RIVALS WITH ANY OTHER OZ LISTS ! WE CAN BE FRIENDS ! AND AMYBE JOIN FORCES AND BUILD WEBSITES : ) ok here is what I PROVIDE ON MY LIST : ( PLUS MORE, WANT TO ADD ANYTHING ? JOIN ! ) QUOTE OF THE WEEK ~ and discussion on anything about the quote you like or dislike! CHATS ~ about anything OZ ! OZ SURVEYS by ME or N E 1 else ! a GET TO KNOW YOU PROFILE OZZY PICS whenever possible get to know you profile ! ~ Who is your favorite ozzy character and why? ~ Dorothy Gale/Toto/all her FIRST companions How did you get into Wizard of OZ ? mom sat me down at the age of 3 to watch OZ Where are you from ? RHODE ISLAND name/ age ? Lisa MArie favorite Oz book ? original WONDEFUL WIZARD OF OZ which OZ AUTHOR do u enjoy the most and why ? L. FRank Baum originator of classic firy tale ! Tell me about yourself ? I am in a computer program at school. Currently not in college, trying to find that place that we ALL want to call HOME : ) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jan 00 12:59:18 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things AGING: Nathan wrote: >Perhaps everyone reaches the "stop-growing age" mentioned by Neill, and >then chooses whether or not to age after that. This does seem to be an >area that could lead to some interesting writing. Who started the thing about your having to wish every year on your birthday not to age? WEAK ENDINGS: Doug wrote: >That at the end of THE SCARECROW OF OZ....the Tin woodman gives our hero >perhaps a porcelin butterfly wing or something like that (a fake wing) >so that the entire quest is not for naught. That would satisfy the quest >in that book for me. Sounds like you're thinking of _Patchwork Girl of Oz_... I agree, A weak ending to an otherwise great book... I've always thought that if I ever do my movie of _P.G. of Oz_, that I would resolve it without the "Wizard ex machina" by having them discover a species of yellow butterfly with regenerating wings -- sever a wing and it just grows a new one! BOOKS TO COME: Gehan wrote: >I think Dave's 'The Unknown Witch of Oz' will also be released this year... :) BCF: Thanks, Ken, for the Oz chronology... I've added it to the master file of Oz chronologies... OZMA: Scott quoted from _Land_: >Scarecrow: "But isn't Pastoria dead and gone?" >Glinda: "That is the popular belief." At least Baum left the door open for himself and his successors by leaving it as a "popular belief"... SIGS: David H. wrote: >Is there any way, by the bye, that you could suppress that long signature >in second or subsequent postings to the Digest? I'm contemplating imposing a limit on signature lengths in Digest posts... I may also start rejecting posts that echo THE ENTIRE DIGEST OF THE PREVIOUS DAY! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JANUARY 7 - 9, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:04:47 -0700 charset="iso-8859-1" Ozlection: The time to elect 3 members of the Board of Directors is here. However, there seems to be some confusion. The self-addressed envelope says "Kalamazoo, Michigan", yet the ballot says to mail it to "Hummelstown, PA". Which of these is correct? Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 17:47:17 -0500 From: "John W. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-06-2000 David Godwin wrote: > It's not like the > socialism/capitalism dichotomy was unheard of. The first volume of _Das > Kapital_ appeared in 1867. The Socialist Party existed in the United States > in the late 19th century and Baum could presumably have joined it if his > sympathies had been in that direction. Actually, organized unionism and socialism goes back to the 1830's, in New York. Marx's role in the origins of Socialism and Communism is greatly overemphasized; Fourier published his great work, for example, in 1808. But as to Baum's own ideas, I think he answered the question himself, where, in "Emerald City" or "Tin Woodman", as I recall, he says, in approximately these words, "Perhaps this system would not work so well for us, but it serves the Oz people very well." > (at least if you > substitute the term "free enterprise" for "capitalism") Ah, but may one? The rhetoric of the right always attempts to keep the two confused, but just how confused on the point was the average American petit-bourgeois a century ago? Surely the _myth_ of Alger, et al., was always one of "free enterprise", and I do not see where Baum is any different. The only specifically "capitalist" episode I can recall offhand is the distinctly negative one of impending foreclosure in "Emerald City". Note, too, that Oz is not only without money, it is without concentrations of power of any kind apart from the entirely benevolent aristocracy. (Non-benevolent aristocrats in Baum or Thompson always involve isolated communities that do not recognize Ozma.) > Also, I'm curious as to what you mean when you say that "the 19th century > spent a good deal more time that we realize regretting itself." I have no > reason to dispute this statement, but I'd be interested to hear a few > examples. I haven't encountered this phenomenon myself in any of the > literature of the period, not that I'm well read in that area. The Wordsworthian myth of Nature, which lasted into the 20th century, the entire careers of William Morris and his American imitators, the ironic reading of Twain's "Connecticut Yankee".... Before modern times, cities were safe and countrysides were dangerous -- Sherlock Holmes was a very late holdout in this respect. The collapse of the old apprentice-journeyman-master ladder at the turn of the 19th century was rapid and catastrophic. Skilled labor suddenly found itself without a market (something of the sort is happening with computers right now). For the first time, workers who were not slaves found that they were nevertheless a commodity (the phrase "wage slave" was more than rhetoric when it was coined; it was a precise description of a new and frightening phenomenon). David Hulan wrote: > Five > hundred years of ruling the Quadling Country and being adviser to the kings > of Oz would almost certainly result in more wisdom and experience relevant > to ruling than five thousand years of dancing in circles in a forest, which > might be all Ozma had done. Surely this depends on the question of whether fairies, like angels, apprehend by intuition. (American popular culture seems utterly incapable of distinguishing between the two, viz. the ghastly current TV series.) -- -John W. Kennedy -rri0189@ibm.net Compact is becoming contract Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-06-2000 Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 23:46:37 GMT Tyler: >Ozma's history is a little muddled. I'll put Thompson's statement >about >her living for almost a thousand years in th same drawer with her usual > >window dressing. I believe that, in _Pirates_, Thompson mentions both Ruggedo and Ato as being 1000 years old. That might just be her way of saying that they've lived a long time. >Since my goal is to create a Unified History of Oz, the current answer that >best satisfies the most books is that Ozma is a regular >little girl, but >that Ozma's mother is at least part-fairy. Is there any reason why her father couldn't be part-fairy? That would certainly explain why the Blankenburg water didn't work on him, since, according to the Wizard in _Lost Princess_, fairies can't be made invisible against their will. Gehan: >I dont think the scriptwriters necessarily WANTED Dot and her friends >to >come across tigers and bears. But, it'd also eb wiered to have a >jungle >where ONLY lions live, so they probably added tigers and bears, since > >Tinman says there are MOSTLY lions, tigers and bears. Actually, it would be weird to have a jungle where lions lived at all, since they're creatures of the plains. It's interesting that Baum placed almost all of his wild animals in the forests, regardless of their natural habitats in the Outside World. Perhaps he thought that would make it easier for the children. Note, however, that the Hungry Tiger mentions his old home as the Jungle Country (in _Tik-Tok_, during the conversation with Hank). Kenneth: >Note: According to the text, Pajuka's penfeather does not actually >leave >Snip's grasp until the same morning that Snip arrives in Blankenburg. > >Since the text states that "it was morning and nearly nine o'clock" >before >Snip woke up in Blankenburg and lost the feather, we must assume >that Ozma breakfasted rather late that day. Another strange thing about that day was that, right around the time that Pajuka's feather left Snip, Tora's ears told him that an elephant had carried off a little girl. Dorothy didn't meet up with Kabumpo until after her encounter with the Scooters, however, and one of them mentioned that it was eleven o'clock. It should have been before nine, I suppose, but Thompson might not have checked too carefully. I suppose that the Scooters could easily have been incorrect about the time; after all, they didn't have any clocks. J. L. Bell: >The economic picture seems clearer when the scene shifts to the Emerald >City. (Blankenburg clearly isn't a free market.) Pastoria >declares he'll >open "the finest tailoring shop in Oz," and for several >chapters he's been >planning suits for Snip, Dorothy, and his other friends. "I'll >make you >*all* suits," he promises his new friends [273]. And all this is gratis, as >life in the capital of Oz usually is. The only time I can think of when money was clearly used in the Emerald City itself was in _Forbidden Fountain_. David Godwin: >The point is not the factuality of this belief but whether Baum >believed >it. On the basis of his actions and statements, I think he did (at least > >if you substitute the term "free enterprise" for "capitalism"). However, >the contrary point of view seems to be expressed in the Oz books. Well, Oz doesn't really have free enterprise as we know it, but there does seem to be somewhat of an open market for jobs. We haven't heard of any Ozite being forced into a job that he or she didn't want. (Actually, this isn't entirely true. Look at Tim in _Ozmapolitan_, who was almost forced into a job he didn't want. That was due to family traditions, though, not economic factors.) David Hulan: >Well, maybe, onstage. We might dismiss Jinjur's threat to have the >Woggle-bug turned into turtle soup as a joke, but there's a reference >in >_Wishing Horse_ to Pigasus's having been captured by a farmer at one >point >with an eye to fattening him to eat. That's true. I had forgotten about that. I suppose that Thompson never clearly stated that the capture had occurred in Oz (it could have been in Ev back when Pigasus lived with Jinnicky, I guess), but it seems likely. >Who's the forest maiden/Princess from _Giant Horse_ who's >disenchanted? I >don't recall any such, though maybe I'm forgetting - must be a very >minor >character if so. Definitely a very minor character, the disenchantment of the forest maiden is mentioned very briefly when Thompson is describing Tattypoo's good deeds. >IIRC, the reference to August is only in the "America" part of >_Road_; in >Oz the reference is only to the 21st. (Or possibly even that is by >calculation - at least, there's a reference to the day of the month >that >allows it to be calculated that the birthday itself is the 21st; I'm >not >sure, and my copy of _Road_ is downstairs. I'll try to remember to >check >that the next time I'm there.) I think that someone (probably King Dox, but possibly Jellia) mentions the twenty-first, but not August. Like you, though, I don't have a copy of _Road_ handy. Dave Hardenbrook: >Who started the thing about your having to wish every year on your > >birthday not to age? I don't recall it being mentioned anywhere in the FF. I know it was mentioned in _Cory in Oz_, a Buckethead book, and it might have been in some other post-FF books, too. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:25:13 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: time, dinner, time for dinner charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks to all for the pointers to the Heinlein book. And thanks to Dave Hardenbrook and Tyler Jones for working together to make the latest archives available. David Godwin, you'll find some more thoughts on why Oz's government is so different from the American ideal in the Jan 1998 digest compendium. The fact that life in Oz is qualitatively different, and in many ways easier, than our own lives does indeed seem significant. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> Later the Scarecrow (with effort) gets the Jinxlanders to select a ruler for themselves, and I think Ozma has the Skeezers choose theirs. The High Coco-Lorum rules from that post because, he says, This won't have a king, but he acknowledges he's king in all but name. I think all these episodes from Baum say more about the nature of kings than about democratic elections, however. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> The implication of WONDER CITY is that one's "stop-growing age" is determined by family tradition, not by nature or wider cultural mores. So that makes the situation even more loose and complex. Kenneth R. Shepherd provided his usual handy chronology: <<******WARNING: SPOILERS FOR "LOST KING" ******** Day 1 - Pajuka & Mombi meet again in afternoon - Snip kidnaped - night in forest - General Whiffenpuff leaves for Emerald City at night Day 2 - Snip & party encounter weenix around noon, meet Hoopers, cross sea - Catty Corners - they travel at night until Mombi throws Snip down well Day 3 - Snip arrives in Blankenburg - he is awakened by Blanks about 9 AM - he meets Tora and the golden feather flies off - Dorothy leaves Perhaps City ("On the same bright morning that the golden goose feather had come flashing down into Ozma's garden") - she visits America, brings Humpy to life, returns, meets Kabumpo - Ozma left a message by Pajuka's feather at breakfast - she & court wished to Morrow - Dorothy's & Snip's parties meet around noon - rendezvous (with Mombi & Pajuka) at Palace in afternoon - Ozma & Co. arrive in EC two hours after Kabumpo's party - Pastoria disenchanted - abdication Day 4 - Parade in honor of the King of Oz - Mombi extinguished - Snip leaves for Kimbaloo with General Whiffenpuff, Invisible Cook & Kabumpo after lunch Note: According to the text, Pajuka's penfeather does not actually leave Snip's grasp until the same morning that Snip arrives in Blankenburg. Since the text states that "it was morning and nearly nine o'clock" before Snip woke up in Blankenburg and lost the feather, we must assume that Ozma breakfasted rather late that day.>> I was looking forward to this report because there's a chronological twist to LOST KING I couldn't figure out. Tora hears from his left ear "that an elephant has run off with a little girl" [179]--which seems to be a reference to Kabumpo and Dorothy in the previous chapter [171]. That implies that all of chapters 10-12 take place before nine o'clock on that fateful morning, which is about when Tora's ears are winging their way back to him. Dorothy has to take leave of her friends in Perhaps City, make her way down "the steep mountain path" [127--also remember Percy's difficult departure in GRAMPA], find the Wish Way, go to Hollywood, bring Humpy to life, bring him back to Oz, escape the Backwoodsmen, meet the Scooters, and find Kabumpo, all before 9:00 AM. I think the only way Dorothy could do those impossible things before Ozma's breakfast is if time itself ran backwards. But that may be what happens in the Back Woods. Trying to make her timing work might be why Thompson has Snip go to sleep right after his arrival outside Blankenburg [175]. She asks us to believe that Snip's terrifying fall and ride through the Well-come didn't leave his heart racing--he quickly falls asleep. After a quick glance to confirm "no immediate danger" in the woods, the boy supposedly feels safer sleeping there than seeking a bed in the nearby town. This episode might have been more realistic--but perhaps too scary--if Snip had blacked out as he hit Blankenburg, from fear or a bump on the head. Two more chronological mysteries: Tora says that he "came to Blankenburg" shortly *before* the queen (name given as both Vanette and Vanetta) discovered the water that rendered her and her subjects invisible [192-3]. That implies the people who would be blank were already living in a town called Blankenburg--mighty convenient. Also, Ozma remembers the Morrow hunting lodge as "where we used to hide from Mombi when I was a little girl!" [119] But LAND told us she'd been kidnapped as a baby, before the age of clear memory. And wouldn't she remember Mombi more clearly as the nasty guardian who'd reared her? Nevertheless, when Ozma sees Mombi, she shows no especial reaction [253], unless we count her later willingness to "finish her once and forever! [278--more about that to come.] And one chronometer mystery: Humpy has "a dollar watch" [249]. Why would a studio equip a dummy with a watch, especially when he was supposed to be falling for a medieval king? Shades of SPARTACUS! Finally, a few more remarks on the issue of eating talking animals. Snip actually seems to go through a change of heart on this issue. As Nathan DeHoff noted, at first he seems comfortable thinking of Pajuka as dinner. But on the night after their departure he starts "dreaming he, himself, was a goose being chased up a pink mountain by a giant with a blue ax" [56]. Leaving aside the breast imagery, Thompson seems to imply that the boy's starting to see dinner from the dinner's perspective. Snip's philosophical transformation seems complete when he deems the cats of Catty Corners "hateful" because they eat gold fish out of their ponds [85]. In addition, Pajuka is said to be "embarrassed" at what he's eating from the bottom of a stream besides water roots [65]. Those dainties are presumably live snails, worms, and other creatures geese eat. It's unclear whether Pajuka feels ashamed because those creatures are *not* what prime ministers eat, or because he knows that civilized Ozians feed off breakfast bushes instead of off each other. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:35:39 EST Subject: Oz Dave: RPT started the birthday wish thing in _Kabumpo_. All: I'd definitely support the idea of reducing the size and frequency of the signatures at the end of many posts. True, they are a way for people to express themselves, but they are causing the digest to inflate. That increases the workload on Dave, and takes longer for people to download, read, etc. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:41:11 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things Nathan: >I'm pretty sure it was in _Merry Go Round_, when Ozma encounters the Unicorn >in Pax-on-Argent. Yes, it WAS in the final chapter of 'Merry Go Round in Oz'. If she was just repeating rumours she heard in the Forest of Burzee in _Magical Mimics of Oz_ as some Digesters say, then the Unicorn wont claim to remember OZMA. Anyway, my own theory is that Ozma WAS a fairy in Burzee, but Queen Lurline had her born as a 'human' girl to King Pastoria and his Queen. Money in Oz: Maybe SOME parts of Oz use money, but most kingdoms dont...... Nathan: >I don't really think this works for _Lost King_. There wasn't a >fully-formed movie industry in Hollywood back in 1908, was there? Perhaps there was, IF Oz was placed in an exact replica of earth, as Dave believes. And there WERE motion pictures as early as that, though they weren't AS developed.... >In _Lost King_, Pajuka states that, after she transformed him, she sent him >away and enchanted the King. My guess is that she did both transformations >in close succession. Thats what I thought about. So my guess is that Pajuka was hiding with Pastoria and Ozma in Morrow as well, and they were all enchanted at the same time. (I said Pajuka MAY have been enchanted before) Lisa: >Hey now ... that disenchantment was perfect for _Kabumpo_ and I like Peg >Amy. :) I like Peg Amy too, but I much preffered her as a wooden doll, the same way I preffered the Princess of Perhaps City as Urtha the Flower Fairy. I dont like the way RPT makes the interesting/unusual characters turn out to be ordinary princes and princesses. I like her iedia of King Cheeriobed and Queen Orin ruling the Munchkin Country, but I dont like her iedia of a King and Queen ruling the North Country as well. The Good Witch of the North was much, much better. And BTW, I disagree that Trot is just a cheap rip-off of Dorothy. She HAS her own personality, and even a better one that Betsy.......All three girls have their OWN personality, no one is a cheap rip-off of another...... John Bell: Perhaps so, but I STILL believe that Glinda existed long berore Ozma was even heard of...... ~Gehan~ ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:41:14 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-06-2000 John Bell and David Godwin: Okay, perhaps I mis-used the words 'biologically' and 'chronologically', but what I meant was that Dorothy is actually older than Betsy, and that it was simply because she STOPPED aging, that she became one year younger. David (Hulan): >Doesn't look like, but to me her personality (as Princess Mombi) is more >like Coo-ee-oh's than any of the other Oz villains. Kind of a nasty >totalitarian ruler. Hmm....I still disagree. Jean Marsh may act like a middle aged Coo-ee-oh, but DEFINETELY not like a sixteen year old Coo-ee-oh. SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVENT READ 'GIANT HORSE OF OZ': >Who's the forest maiden/Princess from _Giant Horse_ who's disenchanted? I >don't recall any such, though maybe I'm forgetting - must be a very minor >character if so. Yes, she was one of the most minor characters of Oz. She didnt play a role in the story, it was just mentioned how a forest maiden knocked on Tattypoo's hut and asked for food. Tattypoo with one look realised that the maiden was under some wicked enchantment, and consulted her books of Sorcery, turned the forest maiden back to her proper self(she turned out to be a princess under some a spell) and sent her back to her father's kingdom on a 'fast wish'. Thats all thats mentioned about her. >You left out Marygolden, who gets disenchanted _twice_ in >_Yellow Knight_, and Ruggedo, who's disenchanted in _Handy Mandy_ - one >probably shouldn't count all the ones who are enchanted and then >disenchanted in the course of the same book in _Pirates_, _Purple Prince_, >and _Ojo_. And I probably haven't remembered them all. Thats what I said, there were many more RPT who were 'disenchanted' apart from the ones I mentioned. Anyway, I havent read 'Yellow Knight' 'Pirates' 'Purple Prince' or 'Ojo' yet....Though I will be getting 'Purple Prince' and 'Pirates' in a few days...... >without serious conflict with anything), if _Road_ takes place in 1901 then >I don't think _Sky Island_ could be earlier than 1904, and more likely 1905 >or 1906, because I find it hard to believe that Button-Bright was younger >than 3 or older than 4 in _Road_, nor that he was younger than 7 or older >than 8 in _Sky Island. You need a minimum of three and a maximum of five >years between those two books, then, and another year before _Scarecrow_. I forgot all about Button-Bright. I've always thought that he was 4 in 'Road, 8 in 'Sky Island' and 9 in 'Scarecrow'. Perhaps I may have to alter my own chronology chain, but the biggest problem I had was 'Giant Horse'. Perhaps your right, and it CAN be placed after 'Royal Book' but before 'Kabumpo'. ~Gehan~ ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 21:07:33 -0600 Subject: Oz From: "David Godwin" LFB the American: It seems that I should have waited longer before giving up and answering my own questions from the Digest of1/2/00, because in the edition of 1/6/00, J. L. Bell provided a thoughtful answer that well reflects his gentlemanly manner and superior knowledge (and, if I may say so, intellect). Others responded as well, so I have no complaint. The Digests seem to be flying thick and fast these days, a welcome contrast to the last year or so when publication seemed to languish. Tyler: The links on your Digest archive seem to be working just fine now. Thanks! Kenneth Shepherd: Thanks for continuing these invaluable Oz book chronologies. >David Hulan asked: ><> J.L. Bell replied: >An offhand claim on TikTokTalk by a certain ardent desktop publisher of Oz >books. It's all blown over, but the comment was enough to intrigue David >Godwin about the dark and turbulent (and mythical) history of this list. Meanwhile, the generalization that Tik-Tok Talk is of somewhat lighter weight than the Digest may be true on the whole, but recently there have been some quite interesting discussions about such things as religion in Oz books, whether and how much a publisher should censor or require changes in prospective manuscripts, and so on - not the sort of thing one expects from gee-whiz fans. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 09:34:41 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: More Ozzy Things David(Hulan): 'Giant Horse of Oz' could NOT have taken place AFTER 'Royal Book' yet before 'Kabumpo' as 'Giant Horse' reveals that Mombi was put out with a pail of water for all her mischievous acts, and that was in 'Lost King of Oz'. Perhaps 'Lost King' took place 'Royal Book' and 'Giant Horse' took place soon after....... Thoughts on Ozma and Dorothy: Dont you think that RPT SLIGHTLY changes Dot's and Ozma's personalities in her books? For example: Dorothy states in 'Wizard of Oz' that she does NOT want to kill anyone, even for the sake of returning to Kansas. Infact, she gets shocked and terrified when the Good Witch of the North says that her HOUSE dropped on a Wicked Witch who held the MUnchkins in bondage for years, and she actually apologizes. Yet in 'Cowardly Lion', she immediately throws a pail of water on Notta Bit More, thinking he's a witch thanks to his costume, and even in 'Lost King', she's the one who suggested that Mombi should be put out with a pail of water. Then Ozma states in 'Emerald City of Oz' that no one has a right to kill anyone no matter how evil they are, and yet in 'Cowardly Lion' she states that a wicked witch MUST be destroyed, and she doesnt stop ONCE to think about melting Mombi away. Both acts are very Un-Dorothyish and very Un-Ozma-ish. True, Dorothy may have cahnged since 'Wizard' and Ozma may have realised that there's no other way to PUNSIH a wicked person other than killing her, having experienced the many times Ruggedo returned for revenge, no matter WHAT they did to punish him. Anyway, if Ozma was to kill anyone, she should throw a dozen eggs at Ruggedo, instead of having killed Mombi, Glegg e.t.c, since Ruggedo is wickeder, but anyway.....I prefer if Dot and Ozma would ALWAYS have remained the way Baum WANTED them to remain..... ~Gehan~ ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 18:51:43 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: To John Bell John Bell: Yep, I dont accept Jack Snow's Ozma Theory in _Magical Mimics_ because he states that King Pastoria ruled Oz when Queen Lurline enchanted it, though its clear from Baum's and Thompson's books that Oz was enchanted centuries ago, and Ozma herself tells the Wizard in 'DotWiz' that Mombi kidnapped her grandfather first, and that she kidnapped King Pastoria much later. She says..... 'But Mombi will still my grandfather's jailor and after that, my father's jailor....' ~Gehan~ ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JANUARY 10 - 12, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:21:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark Donajkowski" Subject: news munchkin dead Harry Monty, Original Munchkin, Dies arry Monty, one of the original Munchkins from the 1939 classic The Wizard of Oz, died last week in Los Angeles. He was 95. Monty also played an evil, winged monkey in the film, according to the Washington Post. Monty, who started his acting career in vaudeville in the 1930s, appeared in movies including The Planet of the Apes and in television series including Lost in Space and Bewitched. ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 21:11:31 EST Subject: Oz Nathan: I guess either one or both of Ozma's parents could be part-fairy. In _Scarecrow_, Baum said that Ozma was descended from "a long line of fairy queens". I assumed that this meant through her mother, but it could easily be through Pastoria's female ancestors as well. Money was also used when people paid green pennies for green lemonade in _Wizard_. Gehan: Yes, I think that Ozma and Dorothy underwent some personality changes when RPT took over the series. Dave Hardenbrook is of the opinion that RPT wrote Ozma as a much weaker person than Baum did, but apparantly more willing to eliminate people, such as Glegg, Mombi or Mooj. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 22:19:50 -0600 Subject: Oz From: "David Godwin" John W. Kennedy wrote: >The only specifically "capitalist" episode I can recall >offhand is the distinctly negative one of impending foreclosure in >"Emerald City". Outside of the FF, Trot compares a disagreeable, greedy octopus in _Sea Fairies_ to "Stannerd Oil." The octopus is insulted by the comparison, but Cap'n Bill agrees with Trot. So it looks as if LFB did make the distinction between (a) the initiative and risk associated with low-level free-enterprise businesses and (b) the abuses of the "trusts." Speaking of the Trot and Cap'n Bill books, someone mentioned somewhere recently that the BoW edition of _Sky Island_ does not have the color plates. Quite by accident, I discovered two of these on a clip-art website. I will forward jpg files to anyone who is interested. (You have to subscribe to the clip-art service to access them otherwise.) David G. ====================================================================== From: "Gili Bar-Hillel" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-09-2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 01:45:02 PST I think it was Nathan who wrote: >The only time I can think of when money was clearly used in the Emerald >City >itself was in _Forbidden Fountain_. I'm pretty sure, but I can't check now because I'm at work, that when Dorothy first comes to the Emerald City in "The Wizard of Oz" she sees children buying green lemonade with green pennies. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jan 00 10:01:16 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: san diego in oz Doug Silfen: Rather than a porcelain butterfly, it would have been fun to have the Winkies make Ojo a butterfly out of butter and then let him take a wing off that. Of course, Oz having as much magic running around loose as it does, the butter-fly might have come to life, and so far as the Tin Woodman was concerned, that would have raised the same ethical problem as before? Ken Shepherd: Thanks for the chronology continuation. J.L. Bell: Interesting comments on centrality of theater in Baum's interests. // Also interesting on distinction between Wizard's over- hastiness here as perhaps motivated by regret for past actions rather than competitiveness. Scott & Gehan: Besides the name "Pastoria" from the stageplay (although, as Scott pointed out, Pastoria is mentioned by name in "Land"), RPT may have been influenced by the stageplay to think of Pastoria who might be imagined as managing to return to Oz life. David Hulan: Thanks for correction on August. // Interesting point that RPT identifies Trot's hometown as San Francisco, whereas Baum's descriptions of Trot's home are based on the San Diego area. He doesn't (I think) actually name the area, so it's not surprising that RPT, not having lived around there, didn't pick up the indications. Scott Olsen had an article on the Castle Coronado hotel in the "Baum Bugle" a good many years back, pointing out some of the specific indications of SD-area for Trot's home, and recently an article in the San Diego Historical Society Magazine went into more detail. The most detailed description is in "Sea Fairies," where the caves Trot and Cap'n Bill discuss correspond to the caves actually in the area. ("Scarecrow" isn't as detailed, but also mentions caves in the cliffs). For Oz-as-if-real purposes, the simplest explanation is probably that San Francisco is a typo for San Diego. Tyler Jones: "Kabumpo" as basis for the idea that Ozites need to wish on their birthdays to age or not to age -- you're probably right that Pompadore's birthday speech there is the basis for for the idea, but I don't think the text implies that a wish on that particular date is a necessary factor. Nathan DeHoff: Your suggestion that Pastoria could be part-fairy -- Ozma's reference to the first Ozma as the ancestor of all of "us" sounds as if he must be. (Of course, there's a discrepancy there between Baum's reference to Ozma's father as King Pastoria, and his reference to the rulers of Oz as all named either Oz or Ozma, but Pastoria could presumably be short for Oz-Pastoria or the like.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:35:13 -0500 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 1-9-2000 Since this seems to be a time for Digest lurkers to come out from the shadows, I'll do the same. Gehan: I'd be interested in hearing, if you care to reveal it, what price you paid for the Del Rey Purple Prince of Oz. I had a line on a copy about a year ago, bet the seller wanted $70. for it. I, too, miss the comments of former Digesters, Eric G, Chris Dulabone and Richard "Bear" Bauman. It seems a shame that folks take exception to opinions of others without being able to hear the tone of voice expressing them, or inflections which might alter their interpretation of the meaning. Has anyone on the Digest ordered any Centennial souveniers from Emerald Marketing and actually received them?? I placed an order back in June '99 and have followed up twice, but cant get a reply of the merchandise from them! Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:48:27 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: lost time in LOST KING charset=ISO-8859-1 David Godwin, you're too kind. The thoughtfulness of answers in this sort of colloquy is entirely dependent on the thoughtfulness of questions, and you've provided many acute conversation-starters in the past year. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> There are transactions using "green pennies" in chap. 11 of WIZARD, but that was no doubt before the period you're considering. Incidentally, one such penny reappears in my story "Jack Pumpkinhead's Day in Court" in OZ-STORY 5, but as a probability generator instead of as currency. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Why couldn't Pastoria have ruled Oz in his kind, absent, and increasingly weak way for centuries? We assume that Ozians' ability not to age is related to Ozma's rule, but TIN WOODMAN implies Lurline had granted that boon much earlier. One possibility to consider: The dark age of dominance by wicked witches may have caused Ozians to be less eager to be immortal [why live forever if you're going to live in fear?], and therefore led to a widespread return of aging and dying. Tyler Jones wrote: <> That would indeed be valuable if the goal of the enchantment is to hide or do away with the person, as in Mombi's spells on Ozma and Pastoria. But another sort of enchantment seems intended to humiliate a person by giving him an unnatural shape, as in her transformation of Pajuka or in Mrs. Yoop's spells. Amnesia seems to be an option during enchantments, or perhaps a separate, simultaneous spell. Another factor: some things (babies, trees, nuts) have little or no memory, so transforming someone into one of those might accomplish the amnesia without requiring a separate spell. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> One Scooter says, "It's only ten o'clock" [159], and after that encounter Dorothy and Humpy "walked along for more than an hour" [165] before meeting Kabumpo. These remarks make LOST KING's chronology even more confused than I thought because they occur well after the Backwoodsmen. Thanks for noting the Scooter's time reference. On a different timing issue, HALLIWELL'S FILMGOER'S COMPANION says Hollywood became a center of motion picture production in 1912. That was at least two years after Dorothy had decamped from America to Oz, and four years after Gehan's proposed dating of LOST KING. I tend to be less aggressive in my attempts to chronologize the Oz stories, but even thinking of LOST KING as taking place around 1925 leaves the question of how Dorothy immediately recognizes Hollywood as "in California" [129]. When she came to the Emerald City, it was still a tiny cottage town on the outskirts of a midsized city, hardly a place a Kansas farmgirl would have heard of. The best explanation seems to be that Dorothy had heard about Hollywood the town from Trot, who also explained Hollywood the industry [134]. Why didn't Dorothy quickly think of motion pictures when she saw the men on horesback in Hollywood? Perhaps because Trot had told her about the town in another context: as where Mr. Baum had gone to live. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> In LOST KING the most obvious example for me is when "Dorothy closed her eyes and clung to Snip" as Kabumpo was about to crush Mombi [225]. Wouldn't Baum's Dorothy have stamped her foot and told the elephant not to do the same? Dorothy also seems unable to get her own breakfast off a bush, waiting for Snip do that for her [200]. I think these are signs of Thompson's gender expectations. I'm not convinced that Dorothy's suggestion about killing Mombi "like I did the other witches" [277] is as much out of character, however. As I pointed out during our COWARDLY LION discussion, Dorothy threw water at the Wicked Witch of the West deliberately and in anger. She didn't know that would be fatal, was "very sorry" and "truly frightened"--but also immediately calm enough to mop up the witch's remains. In OZMA Dorothy turned Nomes into eggs without regret. She helped incinerate the Gargoyles. As we see in GLINDA and elsewhere, Dorothy has a child's wish to jump to quick, stark solutions, and getting rid of Mombi is one of those. For Ozma, the choice to liquidate Mombi indeed seems unlike the kind-to-a-fault ruler who was ready to let the Nomes conquer the Emerald City, and even more unlike "the boy [who] generously promised to provide for Mombi in her old age if he became the ruler of the Emerald City" in LAND. In TIN WOODMAN we saw Ozma willing to punish Mrs. Yoop in proportion to her evil deeds, so there's one precedent. Perhaps memories of ill treatment from Mombi when she was Tip make the young queen more vindictive than usual. Some people have suggested that the off-stage erasure of Mombi [278] doesn't really take place, that the Scarecrow and Sir Hokus simply sent her away without her shoes. I have a related question: Is Mombi really a witch at this point? And would water have any effect on her? In LAND Glinda promised to make her "drink a powerful draught which will cause you to forget all the magic you have ever learned," and indeed in LOST KING Mombi complains, "I've forgotten all my witchcraft" [26]. Yet even at that point in the text, Thompson refers to the old cook as "the witch." Mombi continues to fear water, which would be a severe handicap for a cook [76] (though she also gets "thirsty" [96]). This seems to imply that, in Thompson's Oz at least, becoming a witch sets a woman off permanently from other people, and makes one permanently aquaphobic. Mombi's status doesn't depend on actually knowing or practicing witchcraft. Does that square with Baum's portrayal of witches? He seems clear that witches can be good or bad depending on their underlying personality. He doesn't list witches among immortals as a type of fairy--implying they at least start out as regular women. And in LAND he states, "Mombi was not exactly a Witch, because the Good Witch who ruled that part of the Land of Oz had forbidden any other Witch to exist in her dominions. So Tip's guardian, however much she might aspire to working magic, realized it was unlawful to be more than a Sorceress, or at most a Wizardess," implying a certain flexibility of definition that Thompson's depiction lacks. It's never quite clear in WIZARD why water causes the Wicked Witch of the West to melt away, or if it would have the same effect on other witches. Does becoming a witch automatically make one vulnerable to water? Is that Wicked Witch simply too old to stick together when wet? Or is there something about the practice of witchcraft (e.g., working for a long time with dangerous fuming potions) that produces the vulnerability? Mombi tried to regain her knowledge of witchcraft, but LOST KING shows her experimenting only with ordinary kitchen substances [20, 78, 95], so she had actually been away from the practice for years. Perhaps by Baum's standards the Scarecrow and Sir Hokus couldn't have melted Mombi if they'd tried. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-09-2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:47:09 GMT J. L. Bell: > Two more chronological mysteries: Tora says that he "came to >Blankenburg" shortly *before* the queen (name given as both Vanette and >Vanetta) discovered the water that rendered her and her subjects invisible >[192-3]. That implies the people who would be blank were already living in >a town called Blankenburg--mighty convenient. Or maybe Tora just referred to it by its present name, so as not to cause confusion. It's also possible that it was named Blankenburg after the water of invisibility, but none of the current residents knew this (sort of like how none of the Baffleburghers knew what the Forbidden Flagon had been used for, although it was well-known a few generations earlier). I've been thinking of writing a story in which it is stated that Blankenburg was once known as Brandenburg, and that Randy's mother had come from there, but isn't really any FF basis for this. > Snip's philosophical transformation seems complete when he deems >the cats of Catty Corners "hateful" because they eat gold fish out of their >ponds [85]. Dorothy also resolves not to eat fish, after hearing that the Scooters' sails grow when they eat them. This does not seem to be a moral thing, however. Incidentally, did Dorothy stick to this resolution, or does she eat fish in later books? Tyler: >RPT started the birthday wish thing in _Kabumpo_. Really? I know that this was the first book to mention someone choosing ages, and it stated that someone could have as many of any one birthday as they liked, but I don't recall any specific mention of wishing (or any indication as to how one stopped aging, for that matter). Gehan: > >In _Lost King_, Pajuka states that, after she transformed him, she sent >him > >away and enchanted the King. My guess is that she did both >transformations > >in close succession. > Thats what I thought about. So my guess is that Pajuka was hiding with >Pastoria and Ozma in Morrow as well, and they were all enchanted at the >same >time. (I said Pajuka MAY have been enchanted before) Doesn't _Lost King_ state that Pastoria had been enchanted before the arrival of the Wizard, and Ozma after that arrival, though? >I like her iedia of King Cheeriobed and >Queen Orin ruling the Munchkin Country, but I dont like her iedia of a King >and Queen ruling the North Country as well. The Good Witch of the North was >much, much better. Well, we didn't really see that much of the GWN. I do think it's a shame that her first major role since _Wizard_ has her effectively destroyed, however. I kind of liked the way that Thompson was developing the GWN before her disenchantment. >'Giant Horse of Oz' could NOT have taken place AFTER 'Royal Book' yet >before >'Kabumpo' as 'Giant Horse' reveals that Mombi was put out with a pail of >water for all her mischievous acts, and that was in 'Lost King of Oz'. >Perhaps 'Lost King' took place 'Royal Book' and 'Giant Horse' took place >soon after....... But _Lost King_ obviously took place after _Kabumpo_, because the Emerald City celebrities all knew Kabumpo in the former book, and the Elegant Elephant mentions Pompa and Peg's marriage. (Incidentally, note that Kabumpo implies that he, Pompa, and Peg all live in Pumperdink, which contradicts the end of _Kabumpo_, but is right in line with what she later writes in _Purple Prince_.) Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:26:54 -0800 From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-09-2000 Either address will work. The ballots received in Kalamazoo will be forwarded to Hummelstown for counting after February 10. Peter Hanff ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:16:30 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things Nathan: >Is there any reason why her father couldn't be part-fairy? That would >certainly explain why the Blankenburg water didn't work on him, since, >according to the Wizard in _Lost Princess_, fairies can't be made invisible >against their will. Hmm....I dont see why King Pastoria CANT be part-fairy. Perhaps all her MALE ancestors are part fairies, while her female ancestors are full-fairies. That would explain L. Frank Baum's and Ruth Plumly Thompsons statements in 'Scarecrow of Oz' and 'Royal Book' : Ozma decends from a long line of fairy kings and queens. Oz Poll: Who is your favourite Oz King? (Ex: King Pastoria, King of Ragbad, King Kinda Jolly, King Cheeriobed, Joe King, King Pompus e.t.c) Who is your favourite Oz Queen? (Ex: Queen Orin, Queen Hyacinth, Queen of Pumperdink, Queen Rosa Merry, Queen of Ragbad e.t.c) Who is your favourite Oz Prince? (Ex: Prince Pompa, Prince Philador, Prince Randy, Prince Tatters, Prince Peter e.t.c) Who is your favourite Oz Princess? (Ex: Princess Ozma, Princess Dorothy, Princess Trot, Princess Urtha, Princess Planetty, Princess Peg Amy e.t.c) My fav. Oz Kings are King Rinkitink Joe King. My fav. Oz Queen is Queen Orin. My fav. Oz Prince is Prince Philador and my fav. Oz Princesses are Princess Langwidere, Princess Urtha and Princess Trot of the Ozure Isles. I also REALLY like Princess Trinkerinkarina from Eric Shanowers' 'The Secret Island of Oz'. Ruth Plumly Thompson's Oz and Oz Books: Dont you think Oz is rather 'huge' in her books? I mean, there seem to be dozens of little kingdoms. I know there were a fairyt amount of places in Baum's Oz, but there are many, many more in RPT'S books......However, I LOVE it that way. Some fans say that Oz is the size of Belgium, but I feel that its much bigger.....I mean, Belgium is even smaller than SriLanka..... However, dont you think RPT goes a bit TOO far and gets a little too carried away in her Oz Books? I mean, first she implies in 'Kabumpo in Oz' that Prince Pompa is probably the finest, the most charming/handsomest prince in all the world. Then in 'Giant Horse of Oz' she says that there wasn't a gayer youth than Prince Philador in ALL the kingdoms of the Land of Oz. And 'Emerald City' is the most beautiful capitak in the world, why does RPT say that the Sapphire City is the the 'loveliest' kingdom in all Oz? And even in 'Silver Princess' she says that there has NEVER been a more delightful wedding than that of Prince Randy's and Princess Planetty's.... Untill next time, ~Gehan Cooray~ ================= "Who cares about money? I want to be famous. I want my name spoken by all. I want people to throw themselves at my feet." -- Pizzazz ('Jem') ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jan 00 10:30:25 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: pendexter in oz The letter I sent to Hugh Pendexter came back marked No Forwarding Address. I wonder if there's someone on the list who has a more recent IWOC address book (mine is a couple of years old). If so, perhaps you coould let me and/or Tyler Jones know if there's an address listed for him (other than 148 Tiverton Way). Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jan 00 22:22:58 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things PENDEXTER: Ruth wrote: >If so, perhaps you coould let me and/or Tyler Jones know if there's >an address listed for him (other than 148 Tiverton Way). If all else fails, maybe we could write the publisher of _Oz & 3 W._? WITCHES: John Bell wrote: >Dorothy threw water at the Wicked Witch of the West deliberately and >in anger. Yes, her motivations are not as watered down (pun intended) as they are in the MGM film. >"Mombi was not exactly a Witch, because the Good Witch who ruled that >part of the Land of Oz had forbidden any other Witch to exist in her >dominions. So Tip's guardian, however much she might aspire to working >magic, realized it was unlawful to be more than a Sorceress, or at most >a Wizardess," Sounds to me like Mombi is engaging in a bit of legal word-juggling, since I'm sure Tattypoo(*) meant to outlaw *all* magic. Mombi: Your honor, it was my understanding that the Power of Life did not fit the legal definition of "witchcraft". What gets me most about the above quote from _Land_ is that it implies that a sorceress or wizardess is lower than a witch... My perception has always been that sorceresses (e.g. Glinda) are at the top of the ladder (except perhaps for All-Powerful Genies). >Perhaps by Baum's standards the Scarecrow and Sir Hokus couldn't have >melted Mombi if they'd tried. It depends on what produces the "meltability" -- The Adepts tell me it's the witch becoming mean and nasty, regardless of magic; but they could be wrong... GEHAN'S POLL >Who is your favourite Oz King? (Ex: King Pastoria, King of Ragbad, King >Kinda Jolly, King Cheeriobed, Joe King, King Pompus e.t.c) Can I vote for Rinkitink? >Who is your favourite Oz Queen? (Ex: Queen Orin, Queen Hyacinth, Queen of >Pumperdink, Queen Rosa Merry, Queen of Ragbad e.t.c) Doesn't Ozma count as a queen, even though she's often called "Princess"? If so, I vote for Ozma. >Who is your favourite Oz Prince? (Ex: Prince Pompa, Prince Philador, Prince >Randy, Prince Tatters, Prince Peter e.t.c) Randy. >Who is your favourite Oz Princess? (Ex: Princess Ozma, Princess Dorothy, >Princess Trot, Princess Urtha, Princess Planetty, Princess Peg Amy e.t.c) Tie between Dorothy and Planetty. RPT'S SUPERLATIVES: Gehan wrote: >Dont you think Oz is rather 'huge' in her books? I mean, there seem to be >dozens of little kingdoms. Uh oh! The "How big is Oz?" debate again! :) >I know there were a fairyt amount of places in >Baum's Oz, but there are many, many more in RPT'S books......However, I LOVE >it that way. Some fans say that Oz is the size of Belgium, but I feel that >its much bigger.....I mean, Belgium is even smaller than SriLanka..... I think a lot people perceive Belgium as being larger than it is... How could, they think to themselves, such a tiny country produce Hercule Poirot, great waffles, and Bichons Frises? :) I address the question of Oz's size briefly in section 4.9 of the Digest FAQ, and I'm sure David Hulan and other could offer their views to you... >However, dont you think RPT goes a bit TOO far and gets a little too carried >away in her Oz Books? [Examples omitted] Then again, wasn't it *Baum* who called Ozma "the most beautiful girl *in the world*"? Dan: Yeah, but *he* was right!! -- Dave * I *do* mean Tattypoo: In my scenario, Locasta is gone by the time of the start of _Land_... ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JANUARY 13 - 15, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:37:04 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-12-2000 John Bell:<< Does becoming a witch automatically make one vulnerable to water? >> In _Wishing Horse_, RPT has Pigasus say "All we have to do is find some water. ....Quick, Dorothy, look and see if there is any water around here, then as soon as Gloma pops her nose in the door we'll put her out as neatly as you did that other witch." Dorothy's objection "But those other witches were bad and Gloma seems really good and beautiful" is made on the grounds that it'd be a shame to snuff a good witch, rather than that of water not working on all witches. If you or yours are witches, folks, I guess you'd better avoid water. :) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:48:09 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-12-2000 Nathan and John Bell: > > J. L. Bell: > > Two more chronological mysteries: Tora says that he "came to > >Blankenburg" shortly *before* the queen (name given as both Vanette and > >Vanetta) discovered the water that rendered her and her subjects invisible > >[192-3]. That implies the people who would be blank were already living in > >a town called Blankenburg--mighty convenient. > > Or maybe Tora just referred to it by its present name, so as not to cause > confusion. It's also possible that it was named Blankenburg after the water > of invisibility, but none of the current residents knew this (sort of like > how none of the Baffleburghers knew what the Forbidden Flagon had been used > for, although it was well-known a few generations earlier). I've been > thinking of writing a story in which it is stated that Blankenburg was once > known as Brandenburg, and that Randy's mother had come from there, but isn't > really any FF basis for this. > One need look no further than the book of Genesis to find some examples of cities referred to by name before the incident that supposedly gave them that name: The city of Zoar is named in Gen. 14:2,8 (although admittedly also called "Bela"), before lot names it in 19:22 Abraham names the city Beer-sheva (21:31), but then Isaac went there in 26:23, and apparently HE is the one who names it (26:33) > Who is your favourite Oz King? (Ex: King Pastoria, King of Ragbad, King > Kinda Jolly, King Cheeriobed, Joe King, King Pompus e.t.c) King of Bear Central > > Who is your favourite Oz Queen? (Ex: Queen Orin, Queen Hyacinth, Queen of > Pumperdink, Queen Rosa Merry, Queen of Ragbad e.t.c) Queen of Ev (alright,not exactly Oz proper) > > Who is your favourite Oz Prince? (Ex: Prince Pompa, Prince Philador, Prince > Randy, Prince Tatters, Prince Peter e.t.c) > Inga > > Who is your favourite Oz Princess? (Ex: Princess Ozma, Princess Dorothy, > Princess Trot, Princess Urtha, Princess Planetty, Princess Peg Amy e.t.c) > Langwidere --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:23:08 -0800 From: Douglas Silfen Subject: Ojo and the Butterfly Ruth said: Doug, Rather than a porcelain butterfly, it would have been fun to have the Winkies make Ojo a butterfly out of butter and then let him take a wing off that. Of course, Oz having as much magic running around loose as it does, the butter-fly might have come to life, and so far as the Tin Woodman was concerned, that would have raised the same ethical problem as before? Ruth: Yes, this is true, but my point is that i wished the buttefly didn't have to be alive. That would have solved all the problems. Glinda could have come and said "Oh..you really don't need a live butterfly..here is one of my wonderful porcelain ones." That would have made the quest worthwile and the book so much better for me :) Everyone: What is the title of the 100th Anniversary Oz book and when and where can i obtain it? (sorry if this has been asked before) Everyone: Has anyone read Paradox in Oz? What do you think of it? I thought it spent too much time trying to define time travel and it became more of a scientific/philosophical excercise than a story. The book itself was wonderful is some parts, but the time travel parts and the ending felt like Alice in Wonderland's worst parts x100. Since part was excellent and part was poor..i guess i'd give it a 5/10. Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:07:23 -0800 From: Bill Wright Subject: Trot's Home Ref the notes in recent Digests by Ruth Berman and David Hulan regarding the location of Trot's home. The full text of the San Diego Historical Society Magazine that relates to this is posted on my website. If you're interested, the URL is: http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/author010.htm It is titled: L. Frank Baum's La Jolla: Halfway to Oz Bill Wright PS: I'm no longer in Ozlo..... ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:18:25 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things Money in Oz: Here's another example for money in Oz....The Ferryman demanded money in order for him to carry Tip, Jack Pumpkminhead and the Saw Horse over the river, and Jinjur says 'There is enough money in the King's treasury to buy every girl in our army a dozen new gowns'. My own MOPPET is that Ozma prevented money from being used in Oz....atleast in MOST parts of Oz, but she has obviously SOME kingdoms to continue using money. Tyler >Yes, I think that Ozma and Dorothy underwent some personality changes when >RPT took over the series. Dave Hardenbrook is of the opinion that RPT wrote >Ozma as a much weaker person than Baum did, but apparantly more willing to >eliminate people, such as Glegg, Mombi or Mooj. Well, I personally dont believe that Ozma is 'weaker' in RPT's books, but I DO believe that RPT made her more vindictful..... Ruth Berman: Perhaps Ozma's father's REAL name was OZtoria or PastoZia, but perhaps they sounded too much like a girl's name and hence, was changed to Pastoria. Dick Richard Randolph: I paid $7.50 for 'Purple Prince', plus a few additional dollars for shipping. It was FULLY FULLY FULLY worth the price, as it was a Del Rey copy and in VERY VERY good condition. I got 'Pirates' for the same price as well...... John Bell: Well, there are countless inconsistensies in 'TIN WOODMAN OF OZ' and I prefer to believe that everyone has the power to decide which age they wish to remain forever, rather than never aging since the day Queen Lurline enchanted Oz since that would mean there were no new-borns since that time......Or perhaps that was how it was in the first few years, but then the mothers got tired of changing their babies dypers and so Queen Lurline gave everyone a right to remain whatever age they wanted to.... John Bell: My own MOPPET is that Queen Lurline or some other powerful fairy made ALL wicked witches allergic to water long, long ago and it became a hereditary(sp?) thing. Theres no evidence in the FF books that GOOD witches are allergic to water. Dave and Mombi: Your right, Baum makes it seem as if witches and wizardesses are more powerful than sorceresses. And its not like Mombi to try NOT to be a witch just for Tattypoo's sake.... ~Gehan~ ====================================================================== "Who cares about money? I want to be famous. I want my name spoken by all. I want people to throw themselves at my feet." -- Pizzazz ('Jem') ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:35:16 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: a la recherche du roi perdu David Godwin wrote: <> I recall this as a discussion about usage, and whether surface people used "octopus" in a disparaging way. I didn't come away thinking Baum or his characters were necessarily endorsing the anti-trust movement, or denigrating it. One of the ongoing themes of the two Trot & Cap'n Bill books, I sense, is that even wise people like Cap'n Bill don't know everything that goes on in this world (e.g., mermaids aren't predatory, there's a real Sky Island). This theme asks us comically to think of the plight of the poor, weepy octopus when we use him as a metaphor for bad things. I'm interested in seeing the SKY ISLAND color plates you've found. I examined editions only from the 1960s, all b/w. Thanks! David Hulan wrote: <> LOST KING has tantalizing hints at a different scenario: it says Glinda learned of Mombi's spells by "looking through her magic record books" [32]. These are presumably the same volumes the sorceress spoke of in LAND, but there she claimed the information was gathered by spies. As you know, one of my pet theories is that Glinda had the Great Book of Records far earlier than she revealed to Dorothy in EMERALD CITY, perhaps even before WIZARD and LAND, and that her remarks about spies in the latter book were a way to conceal its existence. Why then would Glinda have been unable to identify Ozma under her enchantment? LOST KING also shows that Mombi took steps to prevent the sorceress from interfering. She enchanted Pajuka in such a way that he couldn't tell Glinda or Ozma (or, presumably, other good magic-workers) [53]. She managed also to avoid alarming the golden quill that was meant to warn Pajuka and Pastoria of danger, which the prime minister had in one of his beloved pockets when he was enchanted [261]. It seems well within the realm of possibility that Mombi blocked Glinda's magic from uncovering Ozma's whereabouts. Of course, one could assume that the "magic record books" line is a misstatement by Thompson, not the only one in LOST KING. Now for my general assessments of LOST KING. Because Thompson's plot depends heavily on characters and situation she inherited from Baum, and because none of the book's new characters is as much fun as (or would return like) Kabumpo and Sir Hokus, my first reading many years ago left me somewhat flat. But in terms of plot I now judge it one of her most successful entries in the series. At one point in LOST KING Thompson juggles four different storylines: Snip and Tora; Ozma and her courtiers; Dorothy, Humpy, and Kabumpo; and Pajuka and Mombi [196]. She establishes the power of Mombi's baking powder early [94], so Snip's crucial use of it at the end [250] seems fair (though I'd also have made it clear there was more than one purple can of it in her basket). Thompson also creates some fine cliff-hanger chapter endings just after bringing them us to a new height of suspense, as when she reveals that Mombi has tumbled to Snip's scheme to warn Ozma [99--also 237]. Finding the lost king is a foregone conclusion, especially since Neill's cover shows us a grandfatherly man wearing a crown (and tailor's tools, a plot giveaway). But reminding ourselves the king will be found by the end of this book is little comfort. As in KABUMPO, the young hero we meet at the start embarks on a collision course with Ozma and her life in the Emerald City. As much as we want to see Pajuka disenchanted and his master restored, we also hear him say Ozma "can go back and play with her dolls" [67]. Scraps speaks for us when she warns Ozma about "fatherish stuff" and says, "Who wants a King anyway, I like you!" [121] So each time Thompson switches storylines she heats up the conflict within us: whom do we root for *really*? Not until the penultimate chapter can we be sure that "everything will be the same" in the Emerald City, as at the end of every Oz book since LAND [273]. LOST KING truly is a mystery story (unlike LOST PRINCESS), in that the author leaves clues which we can follow to figure out the identity of the enchanted king as the characters do. Of course, Oz folk aren't very good detectives. They're easily thrown off by the red herring of Humpy. Pajuka, despite feeling "unaccountably drawn to the gentle old tailor" [235], is convinced by appearances that the kingly dummy is his master. Like Bill the Weather-cock crowing that every girl he meets is a princess, this bird prostrates himself on his bill and screams, "The King's himself! Long live the King!" when the Wizard tries the spell on Humpy [257]. Even after Humpy is eliminated as a suspect, the Ozians have a hard time reasoning through their clues. The golden feather had told Ozma and her party that, "The King of Oz is in the palace" [240]. But they try the robe on Sir Hokus, on whom the feather was writing at that time [264--which hints that Thompson was already considering the possibility of disenchanting Sir Hokus], and Tora wants to try the Scarecrow as well [263]. The Scarecrow suggests using the Magic Picture to find the king [122], but it takes a long time for the Wizard to have that idea again [266--note that again he acts hastily without explaining what he's doing]. (I suspect the Picture wouldn't have been able to reveal the king anyway because of Mombi's powerful spell, and because Ozma would surely have tried that question at least once before.) Fortunately, Tora and Snip work out the mystery by getting around the group's artificial mental blocks. There are a number of lesser mysteries in LOST KING as well. Thompson shows characters trying to work through their plights rationally. Dorothy has to figure out the wishing sand. Her first conclusion is only half-right: "I was on Wish Way before and know all about wishing" [144--presumably an allusion to ROYAL BOOK]. She needs correcting by the Wizard, "who was glad to have some part in clearing up the mysteries" [270]. Later, faced with the Backwoodsmen's language, Dorothy thinks, "There's some trick to it" and gradually reasons it out [151]. We eventually learn why the golden feather has been flying among three of the four storylines [261]. The one mystery solution I think is a cop-out is how Snip can rescue Tora out of Blankenburg: "Kindliness and generosity always dull green magic" [270]. If so, why wasn't the enchantment on Pastoria easier to break? Finally, is it ever stated why Tora wasn't affected by the Blanks' water [194]? That he's part fairy is one possibility--perhaps the parts being his ears from Queen Lurline [269]. Another is that Lurline put a spell of protection on him during that visit. Note that Lurline, Ozma's "Fairy Godmother" [121], knew where her father was but never mentioned it. As well as being a mystery, LOST KING is also a search for a father. That is the journey Ozma successfully makes, of course, reuniting with the one parent she somehow remembers from her infancy. But the book is also a search for a father for Snip. To say he's been missing a paternal figure may seem odd given how hard Thompson works to portray Kimbaloo as a jolly kingdom and Kinda Jolly as its jollier patriarch. Yet I keep seeing signs that Snip is actually kept rather distant from that king. Thompson states that the Kimbles are "all boys and girls" [16], but she gradually reveals there's a class of crown officials and servants between them and their rulers: the Town Laugher and Crier, Mombi the cook, General Whiffenpuff, and a page [41]. The children live in separate cottages, are sent away each morning to peddle buttons and bouquets, and return to play *outside* the castle [16-7]. As a special treat, the king buys one goose--dinner for himself, Rosa Merry, and the household but hardly enough to feed 500 children. The Kimbles must peek "in the window to see what all the fun was about" [38], which resembles the first act we see Snip doing [20]. Snip turns out to be a royal favorite--"the brightest boy in Kimbaloo and the best button picker" [44]--but there's no clue he knows of his king's special fondness for him. He doesn't feel close enough to Kinda Jolly to approach him even after fearing Mombi has turned the king into a collar button [20-1]. Such distance between Snip and his ruler makes it easier to understand why he doesn't yell for help from Mombi, whom he knows has no magical powers [35]. Instead, he feels "curiously light hearted and gay" toward the start of this journey [58]. Obviously, deep down Snip feels he's onto something better by leaving. Along the way, Snip picks up father-figures to whom he can feel close. He hugs Pajuka impulsively [49], and refuses to leave Tora behind in Blankenburg [185]. The end of LOST KING assures us he'll end up living in the Emerald City with both paternal stand-ins, plus Humpy as a bonus. Though Snip returns to Kimbaloo as he'd always planned [60], he also hears something he may never have heard Kinda Jolly say: "I need you!" "I'll miss you!" [279] Of course, finding a father can turn one's life topsy-turvy. In LOST KING, that quest literally makes the royal house disappear. Even Ozma, of all people, complains of life being so queer [255]. The fathers she and Snip find are not protectors; they rely on their children's leadership. Pastoria, "nodding absently," tells Ozma, "Anything you say" [278]. Snip and Ozma thus have to grow up emotionally, to leave some element of childhood behind even as they become someone's children again. That theme is echoed physically in Dorothy's odd episode in Hollywood, growing suddenly to adulthood and rescuing the figure of a king [139-40]. Fortunately, in the Emerald City everyone can stay young and happy forever, exercising power but still being children. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-12-2000 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:11:45 GMT J. L. Bell: >There are transactions using "green pennies" in chap. 11 of WIZARD, but >that was no doubt before the period you're considering. Yes, I was thinking specifically of times that money was used in the Emerald City AFTER the "no money in Oz" rule was established by the Tin Woodman in _Road_. Money shows up all over Oz before that particular volume. Gehan: >Ruth Plumly Thompson's Oz and Oz Books: > >Dont you think Oz is rather 'huge' in her books? I mean, there seem to be >dozens of little kingdoms. I know there were a fairyt amount of places in >Baum's Oz, but there are many, many more in RPT'S books...... That's quite true. Indeed, in _Gnome King_, Thompson states that Patch is the seven hundred twelfth (or something like that; I'm not sure of the exact number) kingdom in Oz, and we don't know how many kingdoms were founded after Patch, which seems to have been around long enough to have established itself in the area. Most of these minor kingdoms seem to be quite small, however. Some appear to be no more than a single building (just look at Doorways in _Cowardly Lion_ or the Round-abouties' roundhouse in _Giant Horse_), and even the larger ones can usually be walked across in a short amount of time. The Sapphire City, which was probably one of the larger towns in Oz, has only 1007 citizens at the beginning of _Giant Horse_. Dave Hardenbrook: > >"Mombi was not exactly a Witch, because the Good Witch who ruled that > >part of the Land of Oz had forbidden any other Witch to exist in her > >dominions. So Tip's guardian, however much she might aspire to working > >magic, realized it was unlawful to be more than a Sorceress, or at most > >a Wizardess," > >Sounds to me like Mombi is engaging in a bit of legal word-juggling, >since I'm sure Tattypoo(*) meant to outlaw *all* magic. > >Mombi: Your honor, it was my understanding that the Power of Life did > not fit the legal definition of "witchcraft". > >What gets me most about the above quote from _Land_ is that it implies >that a sorceress or wizardess is lower than a witch... >My perception has always been that sorceresses (e.g. Glinda) are at the >top of the ladder (except perhaps for All-Powerful Genies). The _Land_ reference was only one of two rankings of magic-workers in the series, the other being _Cowardly Lion_'s indication that a Cookywitch was "next in wizardry to a sorceress." Of course, that statement in itself is somewhat confusing, because it implies that the magic used by sorceresses and cookywitches is "wizardry," even though neither of them are wizards. The classifications are probably quite arbitrary (especially in Thompson's books; she often seems to use words like "wizard," "sorceror," and "necromancer" interchangeably). >GEHAN'S POLL > >Who is your favourite Oz King? (Ex: King Pastoria, King of Ragbad, King > >Kinda Jolly, King Cheeriobed, Joe King, King Pompus e.t.c) > >Can I vote for Rinkitink? I think Gehan did, so I don't see why you couldn't. I think I would agree, actually; most of the other kings weren't fleshed out all that well. > >Who is your favourite Oz Queen? (Ex: Queen Orin, Queen Hyacinth, Queen of > >Pumperdink, Queen Rosa Merry, Queen of Ragbad e.t.c) > >Doesn't Ozma count as a queen, even though she's often called "Princess"? >If so, I vote for Ozma. Baum made an odd move by referring to Ozma, who, according to _Emerald City_, became "the loveliest Queen the Emerald City has ever known" as "Princess Ozma" in _Ozma_ and later books. I wonder why he chose to do that. (It could be because no one knew for sure whether or not Pastoria was still around at that point, but I doubt Baum was thinking along those lines.) Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: "sprichards" Subject: Oz and Ends Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:55:49 -0800 Hello from OZ! Gehan's new Oz Poll: Fav. Oz King: King Ree Alla Bad Fav. Oz Prince: Ojo Fav. Oz Princess: Dorothy Fav. Oz Queen: Ozma of course! Nice comments on LOST KING OF OZ. I never thought about Mombi not melting because of the possibility that she really isn't a witch anymore! From, J. Richards ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:10:32 EST Subject: Oz John Bell: Some have theorized that the non-aging magic waxed and waned throughout the centuries. This explains some discrepancies in and out of the FF. Also, Ozma's comments about Mombi being her father's and grandfather's jailer cast at least a little bit of doubt on Pastoria ruling Oz for so many centuries. It seems to me that if Oz had one continuous ruler, even a relatively weak one, more of the little kingdoms would know of Oz, and most do not. You have a good point about the humiliation factor. Bobo/Bilbil, for example, seemed deeply ashamed of his transformed shape and was never likely to ask for help. Gehan: It seems that for RPT, whichever Prince or City is the one of the moment is the "best, gayest, brightest", etc. Dave: The whole magic thing has been discussed on the digest before, at least in the early days. The best answer seems to be that for the most part, all of the titles are interchangeable, except that they generally fall into categories. People like Waddy and the Wizard are called "Wizards" and their magic is mechanically oriented. MOmbi and other witches seem to be oriented around transformations and mixing potions in pots. Sorcerers seem to be the most powerful, although certainly anyone could simply CALL themselves a sorcerer. The advent of RPT and the all-powerful magic belt overrides that, however. By that time, the Ozzy powerful could do just about anything that they wanted. I think that Dave has an analysis of how big is Oz on his web page. Most analysts range from the size of Rhode Island to Colorado. In some TOTCLAF books, a campaign has begun to have Oz larger than the whole of the United States. That estimate is, I believe, a little excessive. Phillip Jose Farmer was one of the few authors (outside of RPT in _Wishing Horse_) to give a quantitative number to the size of Oz. In his non-FF _Barnstormer_, he said that the green area was the size of Rhode Island and that Oz as a whole was the size of Alaska. Interestingly, he described Oz as being circular in shape. With all due respect to Dan, Polychrome gives Ozma a pretty good run for the money :-) Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jan 00 13:48:19 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZMA: Gehan wrote (in response to Tyler): >Well, I personally dont believe that Ozma is 'weaker' in RPT's books, but I >DO believe that RPT made her more vindictful..... Well, "weaker" is a bit strong... "Less assertive" is more what I had in mind... Also, my theory is that RPT wrote Ozma that way AT OZMA'S REQUEST. Because Zurline and others in the forest of Burzee aren't too happy about how well she's governing Oz without their assistance, and so Ozma pretends to be not so hot a ruler to stem her collegues' jealousy. John wrote: >Why then would Glinda have been unable to identify Ozma under her >enchantment? LOST KING also shows that Mombi took steps to prevent the >sorceress from interfering... It seems well within the >realm of possibility that Mombi blocked Glinda's magic from uncovering >Ozma's whereabouts. This is consistant with my idea that Mombi enchanted Glinda, the Adepts, and the Book of Records to conceal Mombi's banishment of Locasta and replacement with Tattypoo. MAGICAL NOMCLATURE: Tyler wrote: >The whole magic thing has been discussed on the digest before, at least in >the early days. The best answer seems to be that for the most part, all of >the titles are interchangeable, except that they generally fall into >categories... I'll point out to the relative newcomers that in those early days I concocted a "Reichter Scale" of magic (It's still in my Oz FAQ), but Tyler and others pointed out its weaknesses. My current feelings is that tendancies are for sorceress to be high in power and genies highest of all, but wizards and witches have a pretty wide range. SIZE OF OZ: Tyler wrote: >I think that Dave has an analysis of how big is Oz on his web page. Most >analysts range from the size of Rhode Island to Colorado. In some TOTCLAF >books, a campaign has begun to have Oz larger than the whole of the United >States. That estimate is, I believe, a little excessive. That would make the whole Nonestic larger that the Pacific! (Unless it's in a parallel dimension). I kind of show my ideas both of the size *and* location of Oz on a "parallel Earth" in my animation "Nonestica: The Movie", which I plan to show at the Centennial Convention. >Phillip Jose Farmer was one of the few authors (outside of RPT in _Wishing >Horse_) to give a quantitative number to the size of Oz. In his non-FF >_Barnstormer_, he said that the green area was the size of Rhode Island and >that Oz as a whole was the size of Alaska. Interestingly, he described Oz as >being circular in shape. Then again, his is what I call an "Ozma? Who's Ozma???" book. >With all due respect to Dan, Polychrome gives Ozma a pretty good run for the >money :-) Dan: Okay, I admit I'm biased... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JANUARY 16 - 19, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 19:31:27 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-15-2000 John Bell, re: Standard Oil and _Sea Fairies_:<< I recall this as a discussion about usage, and whether surface people used "octopus" in a disparaging way. I didn't come away thinking Baum or his characters were necessarily endorsing the anti-trust movement, or denigrating it. >> I was startled when I first read the line, since I was old enough to catch the reference. It surprised me to see Baum go for the low pun on a topical basis. It sounds more like his stage dialogue than book fare. ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 19:42:35 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-15-2000 John:<< Snip and Ozma thus have to grow up emotionally, to leave some element of childhood behind even as they become someone's children again. >> Nice analysis, John. I enjoyed it. This line, in particular, has me thinking. What other Oz books share bildungsroman (sp.?) characteristics? Who else grows up emotionally in an Oz book? Btw, the giving away of the plot never bothered me as a kid, and it still doesn't. If Shakespeare could do it (think _Romeo and Juliet_ and all the histories and many of the tragedies) why not Thompson?! To all: Rather than just telling us your favorite king, queen, etc., why not tell us why you choose that person? I think that might be interesting.--Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:51:50 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things Helloz! Size of Oz: I ONCE thought that Oz was the size of North America/South America, but then I thought that that was going a bit 'too' far. However, I still believe that Oz is 'pretty big'. Perhaps the size of the United Kingdom?(Not just England....) Magic: I believe that a sorceress/sorcerer is the MOST powerful, wizards come in second, and witches come in last. If witches were more powerful than wizards, then the Wicked Witches of the East and West wouldn't have hesitated to have a 'duel of magic' with Oscar Diggs, when he came to Oz. Another question. The Good Witch of the North tells Dorothy in 'WIZARD' that she's not as powerful as the Wicked Witch of the East, or she would have freed the Munchkins from the wicked witch's wrath long ago. I know Baum doesn't make the GWN an all-that powerful character, but Thompson states that she's more powerful than Mombi, and indeed she appears to be in 'Giant Horse', and I believe that Mombi was perhaps even MORE powerful than the Witch of the East and the Witch of the West, from all the evidence given in the FF. Actually, it should have been Tattypoo who conquered Singra, and Glinda who conquered Mombi. Then the Soldier with Green Whiskers tells Dorothy in 'WIZARD' that Glinda is the MOST powerful out of all the 'witches' in Oz. Then why didn't she conquer teh Wicked Witches of the East and the West? And if she knew that the Wizard was a humbug all along, why didn't she try to expose him? Maybe she thought that it was better that the Wicked Witches of the East and West remained in 'fear' that the Wizard was greater than they were, and that IF she exposed the Wizard, one of the Wicked Witches would try to take their place. But IF Glinda conquered the Wicked Witches of the East and West, being more powerful than they were, then that would make her Good Sorceress of the South, West and East, and perhaps she thought it was too much to handle. LOL! But in the later Oz Books, she not only seems to help the Quadlings, she also seems to help all the OTHER Ozites....thats probably why Ozma made her 'Chief Sorceress of Oz' as well as 'Sorceress of the South'. However, I do NOT believe that Glinda had the Great Book of Records before 'Land'.... Dave: >>This is consistant with my idea that Mombi enchanted Glinda, the Adepts, >and the Book of Records to conceal Mombi's banishment of Locasta and >replacement with Tattypoo. Just a quick question on 'The Unknown Witch of Oz'. Since 'Giant Horse' is a copyrighted book, are you permitted to include events from 'Giant Horse' in your book? I dont think Tattypoo is mentioned in any of the RPT books which are in PD... And BTW, assuming that the GWN Dot met was Locasta, wouldn't she recall that she came to Oz more than 25 years ago, since 'Giant Horse' and that the Good Witch she met could NOT have been Tattypoo? And wouldn't Orin realise that SHE wasn't the GWN who welcomed Dorothy? Cheerioz! ~Gehan~ =============================================== He is pleased with me, My Lord and Master Declares he's pleased with me, what does he mean? What does he know of me? This Lord and Master When he has looked at me, what has he seen? Something young, soft and slim Painted cheek, tap'ring limb Smiling lips, all for him Eyes that shine, just for him So he thinks....Just for him Though the man maybe, My Lord and Master Though he may study me, as hard as he can The smile beneath my smile, he'll never see He'll never know I love another man He'll never know I love another man -- 'My Lord and Master' (The King and I) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:11:35 -0600 Subject: Oz Witches From: "David Godwin" Witches and Water: Wow! That last Digest slipped right by me and I didn't get a chance to reply before now, so please excuse the fact that I am coming in late on this topic. Is there any precedent for Baum's idea that witches are melted by water? If not, is it possible that the idea was suggested to him by the term "water witching," used to designate dowsing? It occurred to me that the phenomenon of physically melting away upon contact with no more than a couple of gallons of water is distinctly non-human. Human beings, so they say, are 70 percent water, a condition that would hardly be tolerable for a witch; they couldn't even exist. Therefore, goes my theory, witches are a breed apart, a different species entirely from H. sapiens. This idea may be borne out by the fact that, unless killed, they seem to be immortal and are universally female, yet bear no children. Perhaps they are not even from this planet. For that matter, what would happen if someone threw water on Glinda? Are there two species of witches (Venefica bona and Venefica mala), one allergic to water and one not? David G. ====================================================================== From: "Gili Bar-Hillel" Subject: ozzy Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 01:12:43 PST Re: aging in Oz I think I've mentioned this once before, but there's an interesting solution offered in "The Amazing Land of Yew", a book I inherited from my mother, which is obviously an attempt to play off the success of the Oz books. I think it was written in the fifties. Overall it is more somber in tone and less humorous than the Oz books, but there are bits of it that seem lifted outright out of some of the books, especially Patchwork Girl (there's even a bit about green magic, but this could be unrelated to Thompson). Anyway, no one ages in the Land of Yew, either, but on the borderlands there are places where the enchantment isn't as strong and aging is possible. So families travel with their children, or send their children for a while to age there - say after they've been babies for seven or eight years and the charm of changing diapers wears off. On a different note: Futurism, Cubism, and Dada - oh my! The other day I was watching an episode of a TV series by Terry Gilliam called _The Last Machine_. I haven't seen any of the rest of the series, this was episode 3. It showed clips out of some very early movies, turn of the (previous) century stuff. I suddenly felt that I was given a whole new context for understanding Baum - after all, these would have been the movies that he was familiar with. One theme that cropped up in lots of the movies, was a very virulent brand of anti-suffragetist slapstick: either dark fantasies of what the world would be like if the suffragettes have their way (chain-ganged men working in construction under the watchful eyes of their wives), or gleeful punishment: knocking down those ugly old women, or dunking them in water. I'd always wondered how Baum's wife and mother in-law put up with the whole suffragist parody in _The Land of Oz_. Now I see that Baum's was a very, very, very mellowed down version of a genre that seems to have been exceedingly popular. But more interesting than that, and less obvious to me, was the tie-in that the film-clips in Gilliam's show suggested between Baum and movements in art like Futurism and Cubism. Of course I had known about these movements before, but I always associated them with very high-brow, intellectual art, not the more popular stuff that Baum is about. The turn of the century films seemed to provide the missing link to me (or maybe it was seeing them as edited and presented by Gilliam). Gilliam pointed out to certain common themes: the fascination with machinery, attemps to portray machines as human and the human body as machinery. He shows how the human body is constantly being taken apart in these films and its parts reassembled like machines: people blow up in accidents; or an old man takes off his head and lets his grandchildren bounce it like a ball, then use his limbs to bat it around; or a policeman stretching out is arm - the long arm of the law - a good ten or more yards to nab a thief. And this happens all over in Baum's books: the tin man losing his limbs, langwidere; the machine/human fascination with Tiktok, the scoodlers; the long arm in Zixi. I haven't even properly started thinking about good examples. but the more I think about it, the more I think it's worthy of research. I laughed out loud the first time it occured to me to compare Johnny Quickstep with the Nude Descending a Staircase. Sorry if I ramble, just wanted to share these musings, incoherent as they are, with someone who has a chance of understandign what I'm talking about... Gili ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:48:33 EST Subject: Oz Gehan: I'm not sure that Lurline, or any other fairy, would have had the power to make water destroy all wicked witches. That would imply that either fairies are the fundamental source of magic, or the most powerful. There is plenty of evidence in and out of the FF that fairies are just one of many magic workers and not the end-all and be-all of magic. Dave: I have only one objection to a scale of magic based on title. I can't really see that the title, in and of itself, would simply grant a person a higher level of power that some other title. Anybody can stand up and say "I'm a sorcerer" or whatnot. What would prevent all magic-users from picking the most powerful title? Of course, it can be argued that not all magic-workers have "the right stuff" to become a sorcerer. It does seem, though, that many disciplines of magic seem to follow traditional titles. Witches, Wizards, etc. seem to work on the same things. Overall, I'd say that your scale is for the most part accurate, although there could be some weak sorcerers or super-powerful magicians out there. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:45:21 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: LOST art Bill Wright, thanks for the URL for the San Diego/Baum article. On PATCHWORK GIRL's ending, I think Baum's strong sense of character outweighed his hope to create a fully satisfying plot resolution. It was perfectly true to the Tin Woodman's character to refuse Ojo's request. It was true to Ojo's character not to have told anyone about needing a butterfly wing, and then to burst into tears. And it was true to the Wizard's character to come up with a better way to achieve the same goal. (Remember, remixing the Powder of Life would have taken years, and would have produced living statues instead of restoring Unc Nunkie and Margalotte.) Two later philosophers may have best expressed the "moral" of that book when they wrote, "You can't always get what you want. You can't always get what you want. You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need!" Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> I wish I knew, but it causes problems when I write stories or meditate on Gehan's favorite queen/favorite princess mystery. I suspect Baum's reasoning was that Ozma wasn't old enough to be a queen--a girl had to be a princess. Another possibility is that she's queen of Oz but princess in Lurline's fairy band, just as European noblemen have titles at different levels. Robin Olderman wrote: <> Dorothy never goes through with the experiment, but this exchange certainly implies Thompson's characters thought water worked on any witch. But can we be sure that Mombi is still a witch in LOST KING? Like Gloma, she practiced wicthcraft for many years. Unlike Gloma, she's forgotten her magic. Baum's conception of witches did not involve signing one's soul over to the devil, which would have at least left a paper trail and a date on which we could say, "This is when she became a witch, forevermore." I liked reading the list of elements Thompson seems to have borrowed from the ALICE books for LOST KING. I see the influence of another fairy tale in the weed- and vine-covered castle at Morrow [112-3], like the one in "Sleeping Beauty." The "long silver casket" that rises from the table in that castle [118] also seems familiar, but I can't tell if that's "Snow White" or DRACULA. Turning to friendlier palaces, LOST KING tells us the population of Ozma's: 49 courtiers, 112 servants, and uncounted pages [103]. Anyone care to list courtiers introduced in the books so far to see how many we've yet to meet? This book also mentions for the first time a clock in the palace's highest tower [105] and a library, which no palace should be without [255]. LOST KING gives Dorothy back her "white kitten," in case anyone's keeping track [165]. Neill drew full-page art for many previous books, but page 19 is LOST KING's *only* full-page illustration, and it looks like it might be from a previous project that happened to involve witches. He used charcoal in this drawing but in few others [77, 207, 305]. The rest of Neill's art seems to be of three sorts: * triangular chapter-openers. That odd shape gives a constricted feel to many of the drawings [esp. 197], but Neill also breaks that frame when he wants to [90, 228, 245, 276]. * art elsewhere in the chapters, which is all the same proportion regardless of whether there's more space to fill on the last page of a chapter [e.g., 110, 186]. * color plates, which my edition doesn't have. I may have first read LOST KING in a library edition with plates, however, since I have a vivid visual memory of the weenix. The sparsity of full-page art, even in the frontmatter; the uniform size of the other art, not tailored to chapter lengths; and the simple endpapers, showing only two characters instead of a crowd, lead me to wonder if Neill had less time to illustrate this book. Some other notable details in Neill's art: 15--I like how he drew the buttons, like a bunch of grapes. 111--The message in the art doesn't match the words in the text. 139--Here's another of Neill's characteristic daisies with faces. 238--Thompson says the Scarecrow was "climbing an old wind-mill nearby," and Neill puts more fun into that image by showing the straw man riding one sail of the mill. The composition also fits nicely into his chapter-opening triangle. 244--Why are Snip and [I therefore assume] Dorothy hanging from the palace walls, instead of being inside where the text places them? Not the first inexplicable appearance in Neill's drawing (going back to the Wogglebug's early arrival in LAND), but perhaps the most dangerous. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-15-2000 Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:37:39 GMT Robin: > >> In _Wishing Horse_, RPT has Pigasus say "All we have to do is find >some water. ....Quick, Dorothy, look and see if there is any water around >here, then as soon as Gloma pops her nose in the door we'll put her out as >neatly as you did that other witch." Dorothy's objection "But those other >witches were bad and Gloma seems really good and beautiful" is made on the >grounds that it'd be a shame to snuff a good witch, rather than that of >water >not working on all witches. If you or yours are witches, folks, I guess >you'd better avoid water. :) --Robin There's no indication that the water would have worked on Gloma, though. Dorothy didn't exactly experiment on a random sample of witches. Dave Hardenbrook: >SIZE OF OZ: >Tyler wrote: > >I think that Dave has an analysis of how big is Oz on his web page. Most > >analysts range from the size of Rhode Island to Colorado. In some TOTCLAF > >books, a campaign has begun to have Oz larger than the whole of the >United > >States. That estimate is, I believe, a little excessive. > >That would make the whole Nonestic larger that the Pacific! (Unless it's >in a parallel dimension). The idea that Oz could be larger than the United States isn't really in line with any of the travel times mentioned in the books. For instance, it only takes the Sawhorse half an hour (or maybe a full hour, but that's still not very long) to run from the Emerald City to Glinda's palace in _Glinda_, and this would have been quite impossible given this size for Oz, even taking into account the fact that the Sawhorse is tireless. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Jan 00 15:16:08 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: hollywood in oz Robin Olderman: The lines from "Wishing Horse" on meltability of witches -- since the passage is dialogue between Dorothy and Pigasus rather than authorial fiat, it's possible to argue that D&P might be mistaken. The last time this topic came up, people pointed out that Glinda (who is called Witch in "Wizard," although mostly Sorceress -- with still some Witching -- in the later books) goes near water in various books with no signs of nervousness, and the title witch of "Zixi" does, too. So there's probably room for a good deal of dfudgefactoring. Bill Wright: Not in Ozlo? So where are you now? Nathan DeHoff: On Ozma as interchangeably a queen and a princess -- probably the writers had a feeling that a "queen" is a grown-up, and Ozma is so young in appearance that "princess" feels more appropriate. In terms of word origins, that way of dividing the terms is appropriate enough, as "queen" is from OE "quean," meaning "woman" or "wife." "Princess" is the feminine of "prince," from Latin "princeps," meaning the one who takes the first place. (Elizabeth I, when she wanted to stress her rulership, sometimes referred to herself as a prince.) J.L. Bell: On how Dorothy knew Hollywood was a California town -- your suggestion that Trot might have told her Baum moved there is a reasonable one. But it's also possible that Dorothy might have gone through it (or seen signs for transfer to it) in traveling in California after close of "Dorothy/Wizard." (Hmmm -- was Los Angeles connected at the time to the "Atchison Topeka and the Santa Fe," as Judy Garland sang about it in "The Harvey Girls"? If so, from Hugson's she and her uncle might have gone to LA to get home to Kansas by train. And what was that line of Mel Blanc's on the Jack Benny show about changing for Kukamonga etc.? And doesn't it seem a pity the Judy Garland had to pair up with the heroic hero in HG instead of getting the Ray Bolger character?) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jan 00 15:03:29 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things LOCASTA: Gehan wrote >Just a quick question on 'The Unknown Witch of Oz'. Since 'Giant Horse' is >a copyrighted book, are you permitted to include events from 'Giant Horse' >in your book? I dont think Tattypoo is mentioned in any of the RPT books >which are in PD... The consensus seems to be that as long as I only mention the events of _Giant Horse_ in passing, and that Orin/Tattypoo doesn't appear onstage at all, I'm probably okay copyright-wise. >And BTW, assuming that the GWN Dot met was Locasta, wouldn't she recall that >she came to Oz more than 25 years ago, since 'Giant Horse' and that the Good >Witch she met could NOT have been Tattypoo? Dorothy's been in Oz and remained the same age so long she probably lost track of time. And Locasta and Tattypoo were identical to anyone who didn't know both ladies well (i.e. no one except Mombi), so no one noticed the change. >And wouldn't Orin realise that >SHE wasn't the GWN who welcomed Dorothy? No, because Mombi made Tattypoo retain Locasta's memories (Locasta had amneisia in the time period from her banishment to Orin's restoration), and some of these memories lingered in Orin's mind even after she was restored. (The "switcheroo spell" seems to have this side-effect.) OZ WITCHES: David Godwin wrote: >Is there any precedent for Baum's idea that witches are melted by water? If >not, is it possible that the idea was suggested to him by the term "water >witching," used to designate dowsing? I heard that it was because water is a symbol for life. >For that matter, what would happen if someone threw water on Glinda? Or Locasta? Or Zixi? Or Hermione? Or Professor McGonagall? (Sorry... drifting into the wrong universe there...) :) Presumably this is a phenomenon soley of Oz witches (otherwise potion-brewing would be too risky, wouldn't it?)... In the Sid and Marty Krofft universe _par example_, Witchiepoo gets at various times dunked in water with no ill effects, except that her wand "doesn't work when it's soggy". My guess is that meltable witches are Magical Creatures (like Fairies, Orks, Kalidahs, Limoneags, etc.), whereas most other witches are human with learned powers. Here's a question: Is the Woozy a Magical Creature, or is he just an animal that happens to be cubical? -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JANUARY 20 - 24, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:18:47 -0500 From: "Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman" Subject: The Woozy Dave asked: >Here's a question: Is the Woozy a Magical Creature, or >is he just >an animal that happens to be cubical? Obviously his origin is very unusual; life-forms of Terran origin are never cubical, at least not to such an extent. Certainly he has magical properties, at least so far as his tail hair is concerned. I can think of three possibilities: 1) The Woozy is a nonhistorical, that is, he is a being which magically popped into existence spontaneously. There may be a good number of such beings in Oz; it would explain the origins of a lot of small monomaniacal kingdoms. 2) The Woozy is a being of non-Terran origin, perhaps related to fairies, dragons, or erbs. Having evolved under sufficiently different conditions, they might have taken a sufficiently different evolutionary pathway to allow for such amazing orthogonality. (I can see it now: Professor Wogglebug looks at a sample of the Woozy's dandruff and discovers that his cells all have internal cubical skeletons.) If so, there ought to be a race of woozies somewhere. However, as Ojo noted, the sign on the fence read, "BEWARE OF THE WOOZY", indicating that only one woozy existed. If correct (and there is only one Woozy in the Famous Forty), then the Woozy is the last surviving member of his species. (Though now I'm getting a vision of this vast cavern filled with cubical eggs, which the Woozy, like the horta from the _Star Trek_ episode "Devil in the Dark", visits from time to time to make sure that everything is in order.) 3) The Woozy was deliberately created. This is my prefered theory, and when I get around to finishing volume 1 of Project RUR, I'm certainly going to stick with it. Aaron -- Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman E-mail: adelmaas@musc.edu AIM: Hiergargo Web site: http://www.musc.edu/~adelmaas/ ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:35:53 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Ozzy witches and whys Gehan: > > Then the Soldier with Green Whiskers tells Dorothy in 'WIZARD' that Glinda > is the MOST powerful out of all the 'witches' in Oz. Then why didn't she > conquer teh Wicked Witches of the East and the West? And if she knew that > the Wizard was a humbug all along, why didn't she try to expose him? Maybe > she thought that it was better that the Wicked Witches of the East and West > remained in 'fear' that the Wizard was greater than they were, and that IF > she exposed the Wizard, one of the Wicked Witches would try to take their > place. But IF Glinda conquered the Wicked Witches of the East and West, > being more powerful than they were, then that would make her Good Sorceress > of the South, West and East, and perhaps she thought it was too much to > handle. Just because she more powerful than them *individually* doesn't mean she can take on their combined assault (10>7, 10 >6, but 10<7+6). Ever play three-handed chess? Concentrate on one opponent, and the third picks up the pieces of the attrition. Indeed, this is basically what happened in the Norman conquest of Britain. King Harold couldn't handle fighting both the Norseman in the north, and the Norman French in the south. Or, again, Hitler trying to fight both in the Soviet Union and maintaining his lines in western Europe (although he was weakened by this time). It stands to reason, then, that Glinda would keep Oz in power, knowing that the deference shown by the witches to the wizard would prevent them concentrating their takeover attempts vs. her (or conversely, they would attemp successfully take over the wizard, leaving them vulnerable to Glinda disabling them). OTOH, it also seems that Glinda is quite aloof in the pre-Dorothean period, until the house shifted the balance of power, and so really couldn't care less. Perhaps she kept him on as a puppet ruler as in pre-Meiji Japan (gee, and to think I hated history as a kid. Guess some of this stuff soaked in...) Dave Godwin: > Is there any precedent for Baum's idea that witches are melted by water? If > not, is it possible that the idea was suggested to him by the term "water > witching," used to designate dowsing? > It may have its origin in medeival trial by water to test if someone is a witch ("So, if she weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood, and is a witch. Burn her! Burn her!") > > It occurred to me that the phenomenon of physically melting away upon > contact with no more than a couple of gallons of water is distinctly > non-human. Human beings, so they say, are 70 percent water, a condition that > would hardly be tolerable for a witch; they couldn't even exist Not necessarily. We are 70 percent water precisely BECAUSE much the rest of the stuff we are made off pretty much dissolves readily in water, allowing lots of vital functions to take place. If we were to be dehydatred and left with just the other compounds, and then the water poured back onto that powder, there would be nothing discernible left....If you prick them, do they not bleed? Oh, sorry, that's Jews, not witches... --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:42:43 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things Water and Witches: Dave once told me that witches have to be 'shrivelled' up in order to be put out with a pail of water, and Baum himself states that the Wicked Witch of the West's blood had all dried up long ago, and if I remember correctly, blood has 90% water. That seems to be the only 'reasonable' theory, but another theory is that all wicked witches are allergic to water by birth, and I also agree with David (Godwin) that witches are a totally different type of beings. In Roald Dahl's 'The Witches', witches are supposed to be deamons in human form, who look like women and are able to act like women, yet they are an entirely different race of 'creatures'. However, another theory is that the Wicked Witch of the West was the only witch who was allergic to water, since all her blood had dried up and since she was old and 'shrivelled' up. Even after Dot poured water on her, she said "didn't you know that water would mean the death of me?". Baum never implies that ALL witches are allergic to water, does he? If Mombi was allergic to water, how could she have taken the magic drink which Glinda gave her? Practically ALL drinks/liquids have water in them...... But that theory is ONLY possible, assuming that Baum's books are the 'true' 'historically accurate' 'official' set of Oz Books. But anyway, my own MOPPET is that all wicked witches who live in the same continent of imagination where Oz is located, are all allergic to water by birth. I dont think that 'good' witches are allergic to H2o however. And anyway, Glinda is a sorceress, so she can't be put out with water. I don't think Tattypoo is 'meltable' since she is actually a princess transformed into a witch. What about Locasta, Dave? The Woozy: I believe that all the queer/not so queer creatures in Oz are magical. Even the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger must be magical, or else they won't be able to talk. I also believe that Toto and Billina became 'magical' after coming to Oz. For that matter, ALL the mortals who came to Oz have obviously become 'magical', for them not to age and never die..... ~Gehan~ *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Mother of Christ, Mother of Christ What shall I ask of thee? I do not sigh for the wealth of earth For the joys that fade and flee, but, Mother of the Christ, Mother of Christ, This do I long to see: The bliss untold which thine arms enfold The treasure upon thy knee Mother of Christ, Mother of Christ, I toss on a stormy sea Oh life thy child as a beacon light To the port where I fain would be, and, Mother of Christ, Mother of Christ, This do I ask of thee: When the voyage is o'er, Oh stand of the shore And show him at last to me -- 'Mother of Christ' *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:52:51 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-19-2000 John Bell:<< But can we be sure that Mombi is still a witch in LOST KING? Like Gloma, she practiced wicthcraft for many years. Unlike Gloma, she's forgotten her magic. >> Which brings us right back to the basic question. What is a witch? How does one become a witch? Once a witch, always a witch? Is one born a witch, or does one attain/learn a set of skills that make one a witch? Water and witches: I think Ruth Berman says it all with "So there's probably room for a good deal of fudgefactoring." About Glinda: I don't think she's a witch. Sorceress works better, at least for me. She's unique. I've always believed that she is some kind of Ozma-protector or helper figure. She takes no action in Oz until Ozma is stolen--doesn't seem to care at all who's ruler once Ozma's disappeared--but swings into action rather strongly when it becomes apparent to her that Ozma has been found. (I think Glinda's giving up so easily on finding Ozma in the first place is inconsitent with her behavior towards the young queen/princess in other books.) She never really acts as a caretaker for Oz itself and only acts on a grand scale (Barrier of Invisibility) when Ozma asks her for help. Actually, I can't think, offhand, of any time that Glinda uses her magic other than directly in Ozma's service. --Robin ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:03:26 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-19-2000 I live in RHODE ISLAND, OZ could nrever be the size of THIS STATE because its TOO small. Maybe the size of TEXAS or a LITTLE BIGGER than that I imagine. Lisa Marie ====================================================================== From: JOdel@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:54:01 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-19-2000 Point 1. I suggest that Glinda got the Great Book of Records to the point she was ready to go public with it only shortly before OZMA, and that it was at the demonstration of its capabilities that Ozma learned of the fate of the Queen of Ev and her children, went off half-cocked, and started putting together her invasion of the Nome King's realm. I really doubt that she had it any earlier than that. Point 2. Regarding yellow butterflies; As a child, I always wondered why Nick Chopper didn't ask for a volunteer. It stood to reason that in Oz there ought to have been some way of removing the wing painlessly. The missing wing would then have been replaced with a new one of tinfoil, and the butterfly would have been known thereafter as the Imperial Butterfly for all time. Point 3. L.A. was connected to the rest of the nation's railroad system in '86. And if Dot and her uncle came as far south as the Santa Barbara area to visit the Huggsons, they may very well have continued on into L.A. to connect with an eastern-bound line. However, none of the big railroad lines (i.e., not the streetcar system) ever went through Hollywood. Someone may well have told the travelers about the way that the film industry was moving into the area for the sake of the climate, however. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jan 00 11:24:32 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: witches in oz Robin Olderman: One factor in Baum's reference to Standard Oil was probably family dislike. His father was one of the many bankrupted by Standard's aim of driving competitive oil-dealers out of business. David Godwin: I don't think anyone before Baum claimed that witches melt in water, but I think he may have been drawing on the belief that a witch could be detected by being dunked in water. (The usual version of this was belief was that someone who drowned in the process was innocent and someone who survived was guilty, although sometimes the belief went the other way round.) Gili Bar-Hillel: Who wrote your "The Amazing Land of Yew"? From the name, it sounds as if it must have been imitating Baum's "The Enchanted Island of Yew" as well as the Oz books. // Influence of cubism -- Dick Martin wrote a short article for the "Baum Bugle" suggesting that the Woozy is a parody of cubist art. J.L. Bell: Counting courtiers is difficult. There are people on Ozma's council of advisors who might not be counted as "courtiers" (Dorothy, Wizard, Scarecrow, Jack Pumpkinhead, Tik-Tok, Wogglebug, Shaggy Man, Hokus), rulers not usually resident in the palace who might nevertheless be counted as among the advisors (Glinda, Tin Woodman, Pastoria), palace residents who are probably not on the council of advisors (Betsy, Trot, Button Bright, Shaggy's brother, Dorothy's aunt and uncle, not to mention all the animals, although the Lion, Sawhorse, Toto, and maybe Eureka and Glass Cat have probably given more good advice in the course of assorted stories than some of the official advisors). There aren't really any just-plain-Ozites named as being courtiers, although un-named there are a Royal Steward, High Chamberlain, and indefinite number of bystander courtiers. The servants include the Soldier and Guardian, Jellia, and assorted un-named footmen, valets, gardeners (and kitchen boy Kapo in HT and the departed Susan Smiggs in GK). Dave Hardenbrook: Your idea that witches-who-would melt are non- humans with meltability as a particular characteristic of that species (and that some witches are humans and non-melting) sounds like a possibility. I like better the ideas that came up when the topic of witches was discussed before, that meltable witches are the ones who have been working with evil magics for many years and that it is because they are so shriveled from vast age and/or from long exposure to toxic ingredients that they are meltable. (On the theory that Ozites became deathless only after Ozma's accession, the age factor might be no longer relevant.) // On whether the Woozy is magical or natural in origin -- seems to me the shape is distinctly non- natural and therefore probably magical (ditto ability to blaze fire from eyes). Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: Dougwmson@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:27:06 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-19-2000 THANX FOR THE DIGEST. I HAVE READ IT ONCE BUT WILL HAVE TO RE-READ TO ABSORB IT. ONE COMMENT, I CANNOT STATE WHICH OZ BOOK IT CAME FROM, HOWEVER, I ALWAYS REMEMBERED THAT THE GOOD WITCH OF THE NORTH'S NAME IS "BELINDA" WHICH IS SIMILAR TO THE GWS GLINDA. I AM REASONABLY SURE THAT THIS IS THE CASE. CHECK IT OUT. NO ONE LEFT ALIVE TO ASK, I GUESS. ANOTHER COMMENT: THERE IS NO LOGIC IN MAGIC OR IN A FAIRY LAND. SOME OF THE DIGEST COMMENTS WERE AS IF, OZ WAS SIMILAR TO THE REAL WORLD, ESPECIALLY AS IN TIME AND SPACE. OZ IS BEYOND THE FURTHEST STAR AND EXISTS IN ALL OF US THAT HAVE READ AND LOVED THE BOOKS. DOUG ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:15:49 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: which witch? charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tik-Tok Talk, Chris Dulabone has announced that March Laumer passed away in his sleep on 11 January 2000. He was one of the first dedicated publishers of non-canonical Oz books, and while his version of the fairyland was undoubtedly unique to him, he nevertheless blazed a trail for many other writers. Gili Bar-Hillel wrote: <> I think it's interesting to trace how the magic tricks in Baum's books change as the movies become more popular in America. The Wizard does all stage magic in WIZARD. The transformation of Tip into Ozma in LAND is similarly accomplished behind a curtain. But starting in OZMA, transformations and disappearances are instant--as in the movies. And of course the Magic Picture is really Ozma's private screening room. By the time Baum got his own experience making movies, observing the Radio Plays and later, it's hard to tell which way the inspiration flowed. The effects in the movies PATCHWORK GIRL and HIS MAJESTY THE SCARECROW do a nifty job of reproducing tricks from the equivalent books--or is it the other way round? I agree that movies are also for valuable for understanding the social context of Baum's writing. I bet popular stage shows displayed the same attitudes toward women, ethnic minorities, children, romantic love, money-making, and so on, but only the movies have been preserved. Speaking of cubism, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> In addition to being cubical, of course, he has immovable hairs, eyes that spit fire, and an ear-splitting growl. And he seems to be unique. Despite all those indications of a magical origin, I don't think the loyal beast should be more than he already is. In other words, I'm not particularly interested in finding out that a magician created the Woozy for some unknown purpose, or that he's the mutation of something or someone else. And I doubt he's wracked with questions about his origin, either. David Godwin wrote: <> Baum's books, at least, seem to indicate that witchcraft is a body of knowledge, not a state of being nor a separate species. We've already noted how flexibly Mombi and Glinda referred to themselves. The Wizard becomes a wizard without ceasing to be a man (and a mortal, furthermore). In GLINDA the Su-dic explains, "A witch has to use her fingers, and a pig has only cloven hoofs," implying that what defines a witch is her actions. Being able to remain young and/or alive seems to be an outgrowth of that knowledge. And the witches have different ways of accomplishing that, judging by their success: * The Soldier with the Green Whiskers reports in WIZARD, "Glinda is a beautiful woman, who knows how to keep young in spite of the many years she has lived." * Zixi also maintains youthful beauty after six centuries--but unlike Glinda can't produce the same image in a mirror. * The Good Witch of the North and the Wicked Witches of the East and West, in contrast, look very old. Indeed, the Wicked Witches seem to be held together only by their magic, the latter "so old...that she dried up quickly in the sun" after Dorothy's house proved such a shock to her system. I suspect water was a similar shock to an already fragile Wicked Witch of the West. But I don't think Baum ever said water would have the same effect on other witches. Blinkie must be disposed of in a different manner. Coo-ee-oh, a Krumbic Witch, shows no fear of water (a good thing, since she lives on a submerging island). How Thompson's conception of witches (Tattypoo, Gloma, and Mombi, most prominently) fits with Baum's is a different question. She presents water as death to all witches. She calls Mombi a witch even though the old cook has forgotten her witchcraft. I suspect Thompson also makes a strict distinction between old, ugly, bad witches on the left hand, and young, beautiful, good witches on the right. (The one exception, Tattypoo, turns out to be young and beautiful after all.) Robin Olderman asked: <> Tandy in CAPTAIN SALT is the most obvious example, in a book that borrows heavily from Kipling's coming-of-age novel CAPTAINS COURAGEOUS (not to mention his JUNGLE BOOK). Pompa and Tatters have to do some growing up to realize who their real loves are. But most of Thompson's books, like most of Baum's, are about returning to or restoring a familial home, not growing up and leaving one. More thoughts on LOST KING. In her foreword, Thompson thanks kids for their feedback: "It is fine to know which of the dear old Oz celebrities you like best" [9]. Quite possibly as the result of that those letters, she brings back Kabumpo, the first of her characters living outside the Emerald City to play a major role in two books. It's quickly clear that Kabumpo's a bachelor at loose ends now that his best friend has a wife: "Since Pompa married Peg there's been no excitement at all. Fact is, I was just on my way to the Emerald City to see whether I could stir up a little fun" [169-70]. Fun-loving though he is, the Elegant Elephant is still the pompous pachyderm we met in KABUMPO. Dorothy has to coax him into treating Humpy nicely [168] and helping "those shabby fellows" [206]. Fortunately, Kabumpo's snobbery also makes him an excellent ally in finding a lost king [224]. It'll take another adventure or two for his character to mellow. In addition to bringing back Kabumpo, Thompson clearly read up on LAND before she wrote LOST KING. We can see that study not only in the Mombi/Pastoria plot, but also in how she reintroduces "Dr. Nikidik's wishing pills" [113]. I believe we'll see these turned into the Wizard's own wishing pills as Thompson's stories go on. On the other hand, Thompson seems to have skipped some details from LAND. The Wizard suffers no stomachache from those pills, and doesn't have to count to make his wish. The Winkie Country is in the East, and the Munchkin in the West [31]. And she states that Prof. Wogglebug left Mombi's name out of his history of Oz [32]. I find that hard to believe, given that the vanquishing of Mombi was the one known adventure in Oz that involved (ahem) Prof. H.M. Wogglebug, T.E. One last reference back: as she often does, Thompson mentions a setting from her last book, in this case Perhaps City [104]. She also says Dorothy was visiting her "old friends in Perhaps City" [126], which implies a significant amount of time has passed since the events of GRAMPA. As I wrote a few installments ago, none of Thompson's new characters in LOST KING shows Kabumpo's staying power, even though they all ended up in the Emerald City. Still, they get the job done in this book. A coupla observations about those characters-- Thompson implies that geese are narcoleptic, and that's why Pajuka falls asleep on his feet as a goose [55 et seq] and as a newly restored man [271]. She might have extrapolated this trait from how geese sleep standing up, but that's hardly unique among birds. Has anyone else come across another reference to falling asleep suddenly as particularly goosy? Dorothy tells Humpy, "You know, you're awfully like Scraps and the Scarecrow" [137]. And indeed they're all stuffed, and we see all of them early in their conscious lives. But Humpy seems to know what he's talking about when he protests that, unlike those folks, he's "hair-brained" [152]. He literally doesn't have the sense to lift his face out of the dirt [141]. And even though he comes up with some good ideas to help Dorothy, he never develops a personality besides "dummy." Nothing more to say about Snip except that Thompson states he wears a "stiff little hat" [21--also 64, 175, 199] and boots [34]. Neill draws him bare-headed and in shoes. Thompson also states Dorothy has a hat [151, 164] and boots [154], but Neill shows her wearing shoes and quickly losing the hat [126]. Tora's ears are first mentioned as "two butterflies," and he speaks of them as if each delivers separate news [179]. Neill seems to have seen more potential in drawing them as a single butterfly, which is indeed rather nice [195]. Thompson writes that Snip likes Tora "in spite of his strange ears," which is an attitude toward harmless oddity that seems rather un-Ozian [183]. Of course, Snip also thinks that "people without clothes [are] savages" [176], so he's not the most open-minded little boy. On the topic of tailoring, I'll close with a scene of Snip and Pastoria I wrote for an unpublished manuscript (also potentially unpublishable, in that it includes Snip and Pastoria). My characterizations of them take off from how we last see the pair in LOST KING. Pastoria is again behaving "absently" [278]. He's also kind to a fault, even Snip and Pajuka agree [66-7]; since Blankenburg, therefore, the button boy has felt an urge to protect the old tailor. I sense that responsibility might bring out Snip's snippy side, just as when he meets Dorothy "sulkily" [198--also 207, 208, 210]. To set the scene, my American visitor, Paul, has expressed a wish for clothing to replace what he happened to be wearing when he arrived in Oz. The Scarecrow replies sympathetically: " . . . They do say clothes make the man, and that's certainly so in my case. I know just the fellow to help you. Pastoria! Here's a sew-sew job for you!" "What's that?" the white-haired tailor answered. A little boy carrying a large sewing basket pulled him over. "Our new visitor wants some ordinary clothing," the Scarecrow explained. "If you have ordinary clothing," Paul added. He stared at the little boy's brown suit, studded with more buttons than a computer keyboard. The boy scowled back at Paul. "I need a suit that's...suitable." "My pleasure, young fellow," Pastoria assured him. He looped his tape measure around Paul's stomach. The button boy took out a small book and a green pencil. "Waist...24 inches." "24 inches, your highness." "Why 'your highness'?" Paul whispered to the boy. "Why, he used to be king of Oz!" "Then how come he's sewing clothes?" "Because I much prefer it," answered the tailor. "Inseam...25 inches. I still have my ears, young fellow. They haven't flown off for years. Inseam..." "25 inches," repeated the boy. Pastoria gaped at his tape. "Excellent guess, Snip!" He stretched Paul's arm out and measured. "Right arm...27 inches." "By the way," Paul said, "I, um, don't have any money." "We don't take money," Snip snapped. "I don't have a credit card, either." "Left arm...also 27 inches. What handy arms. Just come by our shop for your suit," Pastoria assured Paul, "Wednesday." "Wednesday?" The tailor stroked his beard in concern. "Maybe Tuesday." "But I need something to wear today." "Might you have come last Friday?" Pastoria asked sadly. "I suppose not. Perhaps you can borrow clothing from another young fellow. Where did Button-Bright go?" . . . J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:46:09 EST Subject: Oz Gehan: The size of Oz is truly a great question. The number-crunching in _Wishing Horse_ and Dave's estimate of 120 x 90 miles give us an area of about 11,000 square miles. That's about twice the size of Connecticut or a little larger that Wales. The UK itself, or even just England, is a little large. The best real estimate of the size of Oz is Dorothy's journey in Wizard. Based on the Dick Martin map, and Ken Shepherd's chronology, Dorothy covers about 40% of the width of Oz in 6 days. This would be about 48 miles, or 6 miles a day. This is a little slow, but Dorothy made several stops, and went through some rough terrain. Dave Hardenbrook can probably give you some of his ideas about the relative power of "The two GWN's" and he can probably explain your other GWN questions. Glinda may have been the single most powerful magic-worker in all Oz, but she may not have been able to take on both the WWW and WWE (with the three WWS's right in her backyard). GLinda may not have had her Great Book before _Land_, or maybe it was a primitive version that she upgraded over the years. Water, water everywhere, and not a witch to melt: I doubt that Glinda would melt if doused with water, although that would explain why she lives so close to a bone-dry desert. From what we know, water seems to affect only wicked old witches, and Glinda is none of that above. THat is, assuming that there is an intrinsic difference between witches, sorcerers, wizards, etc. as opposed to just a disciplinary difference. Dave: I can't remember the Woozy's history being mentioned anywhere, in or out of the FF, or even by the great March Laumer himself. Can anybody shed any light on this? He eats, which is generally not an indication of a created being. His eyes flash fire, which seems to indicate a magical creature. Hmmm... Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jan 00 12:22:14 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZ WITCHES: Gehan wrote: >Dave once told me that witches have to be 'shrivelled' up in order to be put >out with a pail of water, and Baum himself states that the Wicked Witch of >the West's blood had all dried up long ago, and if I remember correctly, >blood has 90% water. This was the Adepts' assesment, and they tell me that it takes a long time *and* really vast evil to reached that sufficiently "shrivelled" state. Mombi probably didn't hack it on either count. So they believe that she couldn't be "washed out" and that she's still out there somewhere. >In Roald Dahl's 'The Witches', witches are supposed to be >deamons in human form, who look like women and are able to act like women, >yet they are an entirely different race of 'creatures'. Dahl's assesment of the nature of witches is so irreconsilable with both the Oz and Hogwarts universes, that I totally reject it... ( Besides, I hated the film. :) ) >What about Locasta, Dave? She's not nearly ancient enough, and she's sufficently good to prevent "shrivelling"... Michael Turniansky write: >Just because she more powerful than them *individually* doesn't mean she can >take on their combined assault (10>7, 10 >6, but 10<7+6). Ever play three- >handed chess? Yes I have, and I like your analogy! Tyler wrote: >Dave Hardenbrook can probably give you some of his ideas about the relative >power of "The two GWN's" and he can probably explain your other GWN >questions. I consider that Locasta is less powerful than Glinda, Zim, Reera, the Adepts, and the Wizard, but more powerful than Gloma, Gaylette, Zixi, and Polychrome. She was slightly more powerful than Tattypoo... This is partly because only Locasta knows "The Magic of Everything", which in my books is kind of the "Quantum Mechanics" of Magic. With her acquired knowledge of witchcraft coupled with her native fairy magic, Ozma is about equal in power to Locasta. TO JODEL: I like your suggested resolution to the "Yellow Butterfly" problem! TO DOUG: >THERE IS NO LOGIC IN MAGIC OR IN A FAIRY LAND. SOME OF THE DIGEST COMMENTS >WERE AS IF, OZ WAS SIMILAR TO THE REAL WORLD, ESPECIALLY AS IN TIME AND >SPACE. OZ IS BEYOND THE FURTHEST STAR AND EXISTS IN ALL OF US THAT HAVE READ >AND LOVED THE BOOKS. Ah, the Eternal Debate: Is it valid to discuss inconsistancies, plot holes, continuity, etc. in works of f--t--n? ( I know I'll get slammed by someone for suggesting that the Oz books are the "F" word :) ). It's a debate that rages on the Red Dwarf, Harry Potter, and probably other lists as well. IMHO, it is a fun and harmless pastime to try to give the worlds we love as much reality as possible, provided we don't become pious and say things like, "You can't write such-and-such Oz book because it's blasphemous" or "My view of Oz is the only one that's valid -- Ozma told me so!". MARCH LAUMER: I am saddened by his passing... he was the first Oz author who "Dared to be different"... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JANUARY 25 - 30, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-24-2000 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:20:03 GMT Gehan: >That seems to be the only 'reasonable' theory, but >another theory is that all wicked witches are allergic to water by birth, >and I also agree with David (Godwin) that witches are a totally different >type of beings. In Roald Dahl's 'The Witches', witches are supposed to be >deamons in human form, who look like women and are able to act like women, >yet they are an entirely different race of 'creatures'. Regarding the question as to whether or not witches are ordinary mortals, the WWW makes a bar of iron "invisible to mortal eyes." Although not explicitly stated, this seems to imply that she can see it, and is not a mortal. >If Mombi was allergic to water, >how could she have taken the magic drink which Glinda gave her? Practically >ALL drinks/liquids have water in them...... Perhaps it's only pure water that affects witches. At one point in _Lost King_, Mombi drinks coffee, and that certainly has water in it. That still leaves open the question of what she does when it rains, though. Ruth: >There aren't really any >just-plain-Ozites named as being courtiers, although un-named there >are a Royal Steward, High Chamberlain, and indefinite number of >bystander courtiers. The servants include the Soldier and Guardian, >Jellia, and assorted un-named footmen, valets, gardeners (and kitchen >boy Kapo in HT and the departed Susan Smiggs in GK). There's also a kitchen boy named Iva in _Wishing Horse_ (which is the same book in which Kapo appears, I think), and a pompous footman named Puffup in _Handy Mandy_. >On whether the Woozy is >magical or natural in origin -- seems to me the shape is distinctly non- >natural and therefore probably magical (ditto ability to blaze fire from >eyes). Well, there are other creatures that seem to be able to spontaneously produce fire, most notably dragons. Of course, Baum takes care to have Quox explain where the dragons' fire comes from, which he never does with the Woozy. Then, of course, there's the scented smoke breath of the Rak, which might be related. (By the way, when I first read _Tik-Tok_, I was thinking that "Rak" might have been a misprint for "dragon" (in Files's book, not Baum's), but abandoned this notion when the Oogabooites seemed to recognize Quox and his kin as dragons.) Oddly enough, Thompson reports that the Woozy is made of wood in _Wishing Horse_, when Baum made it quite clear in a letter to Neill that he was not, and that his skin was similar to that of a hippopotamus. Of course, Baum wrote this letter in response to a wooden-looking picture of the Woozy that somehow made its way into _Patchwork Girl_. This picture might have been what misled Thompson in the first place. Doug: >ONE COMMENT, I CANNOT STATE WHICH OZ BOOK IT CAME FROM, HOWEVER, I ALWAYS >REMEMBERED THAT THE GOOD WITCH OF THE NORTH'S NAME IS "BELINDA" WHICH IS >SIMILAR TO THE GWS GLINDA. Belinda, the sister of Glinda, is a character introduced in Greg Hunter's non-canonical _The Enchanted Gnome of Oz_. Tyler: >I doubt that Glinda would melt if doused with water, although that would >explain why she lives so close to a bone-dry desert. Glinda participates in the water party at Singing Brook in _Scalawagons_, which seems to have no effect on her. Dave Hardenbrook: >Ah, the Eternal Debate: Is it valid to discuss inconsistancies, plot holes, >continuity, etc. in works of f--t--n? ( I know I'll get slammed by someone >for suggesting that the Oz books are the "F" word :) ). It's a debate that >rages on the Red Dwarf, Harry Potter, and probably other lists as well. >IMHO, it is a fun and harmless pastime to try to give the worlds we love as >much reality as possible, provided we don't become pious and say things >like, >"You can't write such-and-such Oz book because it's blasphemous" or "My >view >of Oz is the only one that's valid -- Ozma told me so!". Really, I think Oz being illogical was not Baum's intent. He might not have been entirely consistent with details, but Oz certainly seemed to have its own internal logic, even if it occasionally differed from that of the Great Outside World. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:44:27 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-24-2000 In a message dated 1/24/00 3:09:45 PM Central Standard Time, OzDigest@mindspring.com writes: Gehan:<< Then the Soldier with Green Whiskers tells Dorothy in 'WIZARD' that Glinda is the MOST powerful out of all the 'witches' in Oz. Then why didn't she conquer teh Wicked Witches of the East and the West? And if she knew that the Wizard was a humbug all along, why didn't she try to expose him? >> This makes me more secure in my MOPPET that Glinda is more an Ozma protector than an Oz protector. As long as Glinda didn't perceive a direct connection to Ozma's wellbeing, she didn't take action. (But I'll never figure out why she seems to have given up so readily on finding Ozma.) - - - - - - - JOdel:<< Regarding yellow butterflies; As a child, I always wondered why Nick Chopper didn't ask for a volunteer. It stood to reason that in Oz there ought to have been some way of removing the wing painlessly. The missing wing would then have been replaced with a new one of tinfoil, and the butterfly would have been known thereafter as the Imperial Butterfly for all time.>> Oh! I _like_ that. A lot! :) - - - - - - - Ruth: <> Point well taken, ma'am! - - - - - - - DougW:<> To the best of my knowledge, there is no mention in any of the forty canonical Oz books of the name "Belinda," either for a witch or for anyone else. Is it possible that you're thinking of the name "Billina," the name Baum gives the yellow chicken in _Ozma_? And what do you mean "no one left alive to ask"? Like Baum? He never used that name in an Oz book, so I guess it doesn't matter. :o) --Robin ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:51:02 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-24-2000 I'd asked<< Who else grows up emotionally in an Oz book?>> John responded:> Duh! How could I forget him?! And thanks for sharing the scene from your unpublished ms. Very enjoyable. --R. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:21:32 -0600 From: Stephen Teller Subject: Ozzy Matters Dave: I can't remember the Woozy's history being mentioned anywhere, in or out of the FF, or even by the great March Laumer himself. Can anybody shed any light on this? He eats, which is generally not an indication of a created being. His eyes flash fire, which seems to indicate a magical creature. Hmmm... Tyler Jones Actually, March Laumer did write a short story about the Woozy's beginning that appeared in an early issue of OZIANA and was reprinted in March's book IN OTHER LANDS THAN OZ. It was called, I believe, "The Beginning of the Woozy." The Woozy was created by as fairy to provide an answer to a riddle. We learn that the Woozy's penchant for eating honeybees is inherent, and that it is not harmful to the bees. The book also includes the story "The Woozy's Sticky End." Steve Teller ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:59:24 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: witches and kings Robin Olderman wrote of Glinda: <> Actually, Glinda established the Barrier of Invisibility when Ozma was GOING to ask for her help. She also sends the Oogaboo army out of Oz and sends the Scarecrow to right things in Jinxland without consulting with Ozma, indeed without even informing her sovereign. I think Glinda's the type of ruler who takes unilateral steps "for the greater good." And to my knowledge she's always been correct--she is Glinda the Good, after all. But she seems to decide what constitutes the greater good largely on her own. Doug hollered: <> Ah, but there should be a logic within each book for the narrative to be satisfying. Even when presenting magic, an author must establish "rules of the game" that everyone follows. It's less fun for readers when authors "cheat" by having characters suddenly remember how the Magic Belt works, or otherwise shift the situation laid out in the beginning of a book. On the question of witches, it seems clear to me that Baum didn't portray them as a separate race of beings, the way he depicted the various kinds of fairies. Instead, witches seem to be mortals (or, in the case of Ozians, ordinary immortal people) who've attained a certain knowledge. One clue to this is how Baum showed two different sorts of magic-workers losing their powers. Toward the end of LAND, Glinda tells Mombi, "I shall merely ask you to drink a powerful draught which will cause you to forget all the magic you have ever learned." This implies that one becomes a witch by learning certain magic, and forgetting that magic makes one cease being a witch. As Mombi replies, "Then I would become a helpless old woman!" Thompson reflects that in LOST KING when she states, "Mombi had forgotten every witch word she had ever known" [20]. Her attempts to re-learn her magic by herself end in failure. But with prompting from others she can recognize incantations and once again produce magical effects, as when she causes Ozma's palace to vanish [236-7, 121]. In contrast, after Tititi-Hoochoo proposes to take "away [Ruggedo's] magic powers" in TIK-TOK, he does more than cause the Nome King to forget his spells. In chapter 18, Quok tells Ruggedo, "Tititi-Hoochoo, the Jinjin, enchanted this ribbon in such a way that whenever Your Majesty looked upon it all knowledge of magic would desert you instantly, nor will any magical formula you can remember ever perform your bidding." As it turns out, Ruggedo can still recall a magic formula, the one to protect himself from eggs--he hasn't lost all knowledge of magic after all. But knowledge is no longer enough for Ruggedo. His charm has no effect. The grouchy rock fairy then realizes "that his magic power had been taken away from him and in the future he could do no more than any common mortal." Later books show him able to work newly learned charms and to use magical tools, but his original Nome magic is gone. There's less stated about the case of Blinkie in SCARECROW, but she appears to have her powers blocked without losing her memory. The Scarecrow shakes Glinda's second powder over her. She tries to cast a spell on Jinxland, unsuccessfully. The Scarecrow then says, "You are no longer a witch, but an ordinary old woman." This seems to be a more powerful potion than what Glinda gave Mombi, and seems to have had longer lasting results. It strikes me, then, that Baum's Nomes are a separate class of beings, whose magic is innate until removed by a higher power. Ruggedo remains a Nome even after losing his power; he never becomes "an ordinary old man." Witches, on the other hand, seem to be biologically human and return to being human after their knowledge of witchcraft is erased or blocked. That in turn leads to the conclusion that something particular about the Wicked Witch of the West made her vulnerable to water. Whatever it was doesn't seem to affect the Wizard, Glinda, Coo-ee-oh, and other people at one point called "witch" or its male equivalent. It may well have affected Mombi, given the likelihood that they performed the same types of experiments and were both very old. But I'm not convinced that was necessarily the case. Some irrelevant comments on the irrelevant episodes of LOST KING: As much as in any other Thompson book, they seem inserted to take up space. (I'd say "to take up time" except that we seem to have determined Dorothy's adventures take up too much time to fit with other events.) Catty Corners allows Mombi to demonstrate her baking powder, but the other encounters are of literally no consequence. On the other hand, these episodes aren't all the same story over and over. Unlike ROYAL BOOK, in which each strange new people (the mud people, the Pokes, the Fixes) want to convert newcomers into one of them, only the Blanks threaten to do that in LOST KING. In contrast, this book's rulers basically want the royal treatment. King Rollo wants visitors to bow down to him [71]. The Queen of Catty Corners insists, "I'm a Queen...and I don't give a yowl for Ozma." [93] Even Vanetta/Vanette of Blankenburg has made laws that ensure she "always wins all the beauty prizes" [194]. That fits with the book's theme of finding a lost king. Some even more random comments: Thompson says the Hoopers live in a "park," presumably the same sort that children would roll hoops in [69]. The Laughing Willows [76] are basically the same joke as the Town Laugher. And just as the Town Laugher has a Town Cryer, these trees have their opposites in the Quadling Country: the Fighting Trees. A sign at the gate of Catty Corners says, "No boys allowed!" [82] This reflects an American cultural connection of cats with females (and dogs with males) that goes back at least a century before LOST KING. Humpy asks if the Backwoodsmen speak Arabic, which is written right to left just like the "back talk" Dorothy comes up with [146]. I'm not sure why Thompson has the Backwoodsmen first let Dorothy and Humpy pass [149], and then says they had no such intention [151], except to depict them as mean. Humpy also says running backward is like being in "a funny picture" [151], and indeed most people first saw action reversed in movie comedies. [The man who discovered how to shoot action backwards by holding the camera upside-down was actually shooting pornography.] The last episode of little consequence is Dorothy's encounter with the Scooters. They assume Dorothy and Humpy are like them, but don't seem annoyed when they learn otherwise [164]. All in all, the Scooters are among of the nicest irregular humans that Dorothy comes across in Thompson's books. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jan 00 09:09:29 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: neill in oz J.L. Bell: Enjoyed your comments on the art in "Lost King." The triangle heading with "Go today tomorrow" -- although the words, as you mention, don't exactly match text, the illo is nice, with the words substituting for a side of the triangle, an interesting variation on lining it off. Yes, the weenix color plate is a striking one, with the weenix's tears flying out against the solid black background. (Irene Fisher," in an early "Bugle" article on Neill's art, commented that for a few years about this time Neill was making a lot of use of dramatic areas of solid black as backgrounds, and that's certainly true of LK.) If the "Bugle" should want to reprint some of these color plates as covers sometime, there are about four here that seem to me especially attractive. Besides the weenix, there's one of Mombi cooking, with steam curling up around her on one side, and the other side framed by the stovepipe, with Mombi in a bright red top vivid against another of those black bgs, and one of Kabumpo & co arriving at the palace (ornately domed and spired, with statuary of Scarecrow, Tin Man, and Soldier with the Green Whiskers), and one of Ozma lost in memory in the cobwebby Morrow lodge (beautiful in spite of a left arm as weirdly bent as the one Justin Richards pointed out in a "Grampa" colorplate). There wasn't much discussion of the art for the two preceding books, so I think I'll mention also some striking color plates in "Grampa" and "Cowardly Lion" it would be nice to see in the "Bugle" (for their own merits, and because facsimile reprints of them are otherwise unavailable to most). In "Grampa," the one of Polychrome leading the travelers over the rainbow (Neill was always striking with rainbows), and maybe the one of Urtha asleep in the garden; in "Cowardly Lion," the one of the old fairyman with the lanterns by the sleeping Notta and Bob, and the one of the Scarecrow dishing out Oz Cream. It occurs to me now that the Oz Cream is in a big container inside a bigger, ice-filled container -- evidently they make it themselves on the spot out of fresh cream. (Considering that home-freezers or refrigerators with freezing compartments weren't, I think, generally available at the time, the use of home ice-cream makers was probably more familiar to readers then than it is now.) One more Neill-art point: a while back, we were talking about the 2-page spread in "Lucky Bucky" of a crowd of sorcerors done in a style 20 years earlier than the rest of the book. It was reprinted as a "Bugle" cover once with a caption pointing out the mystery as to its origins. Somehow, I never until now noticed the fine print in the *following* issue, with a note explaining that the illo originally ran in a 1920s issue of "Boy's Life." Unfortunately, the note doesn't give exact date ("1920" could mean the year or even the whole decade), or the story. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:00:50 EST Subject: WIZARD OF OZ 2000 : ) LISA CC: WizardofOz2000@onelist.com Hello, finally glad to see you are alive ! lol Well, I was 3 years old when my mother sat me down in front of the TV for my FIRST movie ever! IT WAS 1939 OZ. Because of my mom loving the movie and the magical meanings behind it I am an EXTREMIST of OZ. I can't describe it, it just ENTRANCES me. Tell me about how this movie has made an impact on you! Lisa ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:01:50 EST Subject: Oz Gehan wrote: > But anyway, my own MOPPET is that all wicked witches who > live in the same continent of imagination where Oz is > located, are all allergic to water by birth. That implies that people are "assigned" a morality of good or evil at birth, and I'm a little uncomfortable with that. I like the idea that as some witches gravitate toward evil, they become dried up and more allergic to water. Piers Anthony, in his _Xanth_ novels, had an interesting discussion of the differences in BEING magical and HAVING magic. A creature such as a dragon (or a Woozy) is magical in nature, while other animals can have magical abilities. Most animals in Oz, such as the Cowardly Lion and Billina, do not seem to me to really BE magical. Apart from their ability to talk, they seem to possess no magical talents or innate abilities. DOug: It was one of the Buckethead books that had Belinda as the GWN. Was it _Mr. Flint_? Maybe _Enchanted Gnome_? In any case, Belinda was the new GWN, named to replace Tattypoo/Orin, so Belinda was never the name of the original GWN. A personal farewell: Goodbye, March Laumer. Your vision of Oz spoke to me, and I treasure the books you wrote and the letters I received from you. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "Gili Bar-Hillel" Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:05:22 PST Ruth Berman: The book I have is actually called "The Amazing Land of Wew" - "Yew" was a slip of mine writing from memory, probably because the similarity to Baum's title has struck me before. It was written by John G. Kaufer, copyright 1954, published by the Steck Company of Austin Texas, with attractive colorplates by Warren Hunter. When I picked the book off the shelf to look this information up, a piece of paper slipped out with some notes I must have written quite a few years ago, on parallels with the Oz books. I think I was thinking of writing a careful analyses for the Baum Bugle, but I never did. There are lots and lots of similarities, some which might even be argued to border on plagiarism - but it's a pretty good book nonetheless. Less whimsical and humorous than the Oz books, but maybe a little more carefully plotted and suspensful. I'd actually be interested to know more about this book, if anyone else has heard of it before. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ======================================================================