] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 1, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:59:17 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Jeremy: If you mean that Oz will become recreation, please tell me a better hierarchy to put it in (comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, sci, soc, and talk). All sites dealing with such stuff (including the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien, which has its own newsgroup), are in the rec.arts hierarchy, and I think that that would be the best place to put it. Jeremy and Dave H.: Thanks for mentioning it. I forgot to check the URL and gave the wrong ring name. I have corrected it and my signature has the URL. The HTML code on Oz Web Ring Pages does have the correct code and the problem does not affect the code. -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsites;home ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 15:57:28 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Dave L.: That's one shiny nickel! Also, I missed a few Digests on the way to college and so may have missed the beginning of the Digest vs newsgroup debate. Anyway, my opinion is that the Digest is good as it is, and another newsgroup would be good too. (E-mail me privately if I have it all wrong, please. I don't have access to anything mailed me before I came to school now, so if we went through this before, my apologies.) Bear: I'm not going to argue--we've had enough little mini-arguments for one Digest. Teaching Greek and Latin: Well, some Americans (and others) have mysteriously made their way to Oz; why couldn't some Greeks and Romans have done the same? In fact, one could even say that's how Oz was colonized by humans (not that I'm saying that's necessarily so, of course--I'm just suggesting a possibility). Maximum speed of a tornado on the ground?: That's one of our tornados, of course. A tornado originating in Oz? Who knows how fast it might go. David Hulan: Yes, I'd appreciate your opinion of Netscape e-mail or that of any other user thereof. (With comparison to Pegasus mail, if possible -- but if not possible,. just an impression thereof.) Toto: As the mailman will attest, he was a _real_ terrier! JOdel: You imply that an army of 27 is more competent than one of one? More organized, of course, but . . . (not that I have first-hand experience with one, of course, but from what I've heard . . .) Ozma's unreaction: To prove to the Nome King that all he does is futile anyway? You might all ask me whether "unreaction" is a real word. But of course it is! It's what happens when you watch a film of a chemist combining vinegar and baking soda in reverse. --Jeremy Steadman [WITHOUT KIEX!!!! :-) :-) ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:01:12 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Bear, My point (incomprehensible as it may have been) was that it is the government in one or more of its manifestations that inoculates children against polio (They got me three times, with the Salk vaccine and the Sabin vaccine in school and then the Army did it again to me. Never got polio, though). Have a nice weekend (belatedly) yourself, Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 16:05:02 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 >Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:08:23 -0500 >From: "David G. Hulan" > >The gold shoes of the Sawhorse were probably attributable to the fact >that gold was the commonest and cheapest metal in Oz. It wouldn't last >terribly long, but it was easily replaced. Steel doesn't seem to be all >that readily available there. I had always assumed that Baum used the gold shows purely for effect, instead of any practical reason. You're right in that gold wouldn't last long enough to justify the time required to make the shoes. I suspect that even wooden shoes would perform better. Metals we use to strengthen gold (like copper) would make better shoes when used alone. The use of gold has little practical function (other than ornamentation and as a conductor). >Nickel is a metal that doesn't tarnish or corrode easily, but then so is >tin. I'm not sure what the advantage of nickel-plating tin would be. >Nickel is much harder than tin, but a plating wouldn't have that much >effect. As for luster, I think the two materials are fairly comparable - >not nearly as bright as silver or aluminum, or gold if you're not >looking for the blue-green end of the spectrum, or even chromium, but >brighter than iron or steel or zinc. Actually, I've found nickel plating to be equal to superior to chrome. It has a slightly darker color, but this gives it a much richer look. It is mildly susceptible to tarnish when contaminated (like a fingerprint), but so is chrome. The nickel plated item I have has a plating which is thicker than chrome plate (I don't know if this is generally the case), and thus it has a greater tendency to crack. Still, I prefer nickel plating to chrome for its color. On the other hand, silver is horribly susceptible to tarnish, and requires constant maintenance. Aluminum looks nice after A LOT of polishing, but it dulls if not sealed (hence the clear paint on aluminum cans). Gold of course would be a good choice if the color were suitable. >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:28:15 -0400 (EDT) >From: JOdel@aol.com > >Ozma's reaction to the threat of invasion is so bizarre that I find it >difficult to swallow. Clearly this is supposed to demonstrate to the reader >that good will always triumph... I agree. The biggest problem with many of the later Oz books (_EC_, _Patchwork_, and especially the Thompson titles) is that the characters no longer have to think in order to solve their problems. Either Glinda shows up and snaps her magic fingers, or some other solution just falls into their collective laps, and everyone heads off to the palace to party. Someone brought up the potential for an ethical and philosophical discussion of the Bunburry chapter, but I feel that Ozma stealing the minds of all her would-be invaders should raise greater ethical questions. Then again, it is just a story. _Emerald City_ is one of my favorite all-around Oz books. I really enjoy Baum's sarcasm, which is in full gear here, but fades quickly in his later work. I'm also fascinated by the extent to which socialism had integrated itself into Baum's writing - obviously the fad of the period. Wasn't it only forty years or so between _Emerald City_ and _Animal Farm_? I'm constantly amazed at how people can have such strong definitive perceptions of the ideal society which invariably look ridiculous to following generations. We are all truly products of our times. On the other hand, other aspects of human behaviour (like the Flutterbudgets) seem to be timeless. Good book. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 16:24:52 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Robin: I think the term "Ainur" is from one of the later books, but in the appendices to LotR the Wizards are called Istari and it's stated that they're not mortal humans. David L.: Nickel when polished is shiny, but its reflectivity isn't nearly as high as silver (around 98% when freshly polished, though it tarnishes fast) or aluminum (90% when polished, and it doesn't tarnish fast). IIRC the reflectivity of nickel is around 50-60%. (If anybody really wants to know I can look it up, but I'd have to go downstairs and it doesn't seem worth the bother unless someone is really curious.) Craig (and others who mentioned the point): It seems to me that there's every bit as much reason for Ozites to study Greek and Latin as for Americans. In either case the reason for studying the languages is partly to have access to the literature of those cultures in the original, and partly to improve one's understanding of English, which owes a great deal of its vocabulary to them. Since Ozish is the same as English, the latter reason would apply in Oz as much as in America or Britain. And the great literature of Rome and Greece would be just as great in Oz as here as well. It's not as if Latin and Greek are studied here to enable one to speak with ancient Romans and Greeks if we happen to meet up with them. (True that there are modern speakers of a form of Greek, and the RC church still uses a form of Latin, but neither American schools of Baum's day nor, I'm sure, Prof. Woggle-bug's academy generally taught Modern Greek or Church Latin. They taught the classical languages.) Of course, these days very few Americans study Latin, and fewer Greek, but at the time EC was written most who went to secondary school studied Latin, and most who went to college studied Greek as well. Bear: >Sigh - Where did you get this strange idea? This country was founded on >the basis that we wanted government to leave us alone and worry about a >very retricted set of things. Our early flag was a snake with the motto >"Don't tread on me." It is sad how far we have drifted from that idea. If >you don't think it is costing you anything ask anyone over forty. And if you don't think there are any benefits from it, you weren't trying to breathe in Los Angeles in 1963. Joyce: Your comments on EC seem bang-on to me. Neill seemed to have a hard time making up his mind what breed of terrier Toto was. In _Wizard_ Denslow makes him a Scottie or Cairn or some such - one of the fuzzy square kind, anyhow. Neill starts out making him a Boston terrier in _Road_, and continues that in _EC_, but in _PG_ he's something else - not a breed I'm familiar with, if there is such a breed - and by _Lost Princess_ he seems to be more or less of a mutt. It seems bizarre to me that when Ozma found out about the Nome King's planned invasion she wouldn't at least have alerted Glinda to what was going on. Granted, Glinda probably knew about it anyhow from the Great Book of Records (though IIRC that book is first mentioned in _Tik-Tok_; it's just possible that it didn't exist at the time of _EC_), but in that case why didn't _she_ come to the EC to counsel with Ozma, even if she weren't called on? Whether she's protector of Oz or protector of Ozma, it would seem to be in her job description. (Of course, maybe she was brewing up some powerful magic that she'd have used if the Scarecrow hadn't had his inspiration. But if so, she never mentioned it. OTOH, maybe that was to keep morale high in the EC; if you know that someone is going to save you even if your plans go awry, then you have less incentive to work hard to save yourself. Good conservative doctrine there, right, Bear?) Jeremy: I agree that Baum was no fool, but I don't really think Roquat and his armies were much of a prediction of the World Wars. More likely a reflection of the historical wars like the Crimean, Napoleonic, Seven Years', Spanish Succession, Grand Alliance, and Thirty Years', just to go back a couple of centuries from the time he wrote. All of those were cases where multiple nations with differing goals banded together to fight on the same side of a war, sometimes against a single opponent and sometimes against a hostile alliance. (And I don't assert that the wars I list are the only ones of that kind in that period, though I think they were the most important ones.) In the context of the original remark, "N'est-ce pas?" would be correct. David L.: Eureka made it back to Oz somehow by the time of _Patchwork Girl_ (and had become pink in the process). The only time she has any lines in a later book, though, is in _Magic_, where she has a few. Otherwise she's only mentioned in the FF. She appears in quite a few of the non-FF books, though; she has an excellent role in the IWOC's _Ozmapolitan_, and also in BEOO's _Colorful Kitten_. And I have a book that I hope will appear from BoW when I finish some revisions that's entirely from her POV and explains a lot of things. Dave: The book version of _Cluny Brown_ is by my wife's favorite author (or at least favorite non-mystery, non-fantasy author), Margery Sharp. (She's also the author of the "Miss Bianca" books, but Marcia likes her straight adult novels better.) I read one of her books (_The Nutmeg Tree_) once and enjoyed it , but haven't followed up with others. I figure if I ever run out of things to read (hah!) I have this collection of about 40 books that I expect to enjoy and haven't touched yet, sitting across the room from me. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 20:31:29 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-97 David Hulan wrote: >(Farmer has done the same thing with Tarzan >and Doc Savage and possibly other fictional "universes".) Although Verne did not create universes, in the modern sense, Farmer wrote "The Other Log of Phileas Fogg", in which it is revealed that the _real_ reason for the 80-day journey was to foil the plans of the wicked alien known to humanity as Captain Nemo. >John K.'s definitions of the various forms of speculative fiction are >John K.'s, and should not be taken as Received Enlightenment. Pick >another knowledgeable SF fan and you'll get a slightly different >version. In particular, I don't know too many other people who'd define >"Sci-Fi" as he does; for most people I know, it's just a rather *eh* >synonym for Science Fiction, and not a way of categorizing bad SF. They are not _my_ definitions, but common practice, at least on the Internet. I freely admit I have never been involved in absolute fandom, outside of my IWOC and Offical-Babylon-5-Fanclub memberships, but the definitions I gave were those I have observed in common use in recent years; they are not my own (except for the actual wording). In particular, the use of "sci-fi" to signify rubbishy imitation SF is insisted upon by Harlan Ellison (although he allows an exception, perforce, in the case of the soi-dissant "Sci-Fi Channel"), and I, for one, do not care to challenge the authority of Harlan the Great and Terrible. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:32:28 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Jeremy: >Roquat and his army: A direct prediction of the World Wars . . . Baum was no fool.< Jeremy: "Is is time we went into the world and brought sorrow and dismay to its people. Too long have we remained by ourselves upon this mountain top, for while we are thus secluded many nations have grown happy and prosperous, and the chief joy of the race of Phanfasms is to destroy happiness. So I think it is lucky that this messenger from the Nomes arrived among us just now, to remind us that the opportunity has come for us to make trouble. We will use King Roquat's tunnel to conquer the Land of Oz. Then we ewill destroy the Whimsies, the Growleywogs and the Nomes, and afterward go out to ravage and annoy and grieve the whole world." The First and Foremost of the Phanfasms Because many agree the world went mad, or died, in 1914, I agree with you--the First and Foremost's words do seem creepily prophetic, especially since "Emerald City of Oz" was copyrighted in 1910. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:33:10 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-24-97 David Hulan: There's one other way Glinda could possibly get a fairyhood--from a fairy-turned-bad. Theoretically, perhaps Ak or a fairy queen has the power to "defrock" a bad fairy and give their fairyhood to someone else if they so choose. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:14:52 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 David: I've seen paperback copies of _Glass Cat_ at Borders. Are there still hardcover copies available? What is the list price, and where can I order one? Global warming: I'm sure the climate is constant in Oz, but it's definitely getting warmer here. That is the consensus of most scientists who study climate around the world. There also is a high degree of probability that it's caused by increasing concentrations of CO2 and other "greenhouse gases" that have been emitted since the beginning of the industrial revolution. What we don't know is exactly what the effect of the change will be -- melting polar caps, coastal flooding, tropical storms of increasing severity, cropland turned to desert, waves of extinctions -- we just don't know. Most scientists agree that whatever happens, it won't be good, and we should take corrective actions to reduce CO2 emissions, primarily through reductions in the burning of fossil fuels. 'Nuf said. More on EC: I wonder what it was like to read this book when it first came out. When it was first read to me at about the age of 6 or 7, I knew not to believe Baum's claim that there would be no more communication with Oz b/c I had seen the other titles, but I imagine there were some pretty upset kids out there. I guess I haven't been reading the Digest as well as I should -- I notice that the Greek & Latin issue had already been raised. It still seems awfully strange though. -- Craig P.S. - Less than three hours before Labor Day, and Terry hasn't gone into labor yet. We are anxiously awaiting this new person who is going to play such a major part in our lives. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:31:37 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Tyler & David: ""I cannot understand why you should wish to leave this beautiful country and go back to the dry, gray place you call Kansas." "That is because you have no brains," answered the girl. "No matter how dreary and gray our homes are, we people of flesh and blood would rather live there than in any other country, be it ever so beautiful. There is no place like home." Quote from "The Wizard of Oz." Of course, as you said, perhaps later Dorothy realizes that Uncle Henry and Aunt Em are the main attractions Kansas holds for her, but here she waxes sentimental and homesick for Kansas. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 23:57:59 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Robin - IIRC he wasn't "done in" but was not around to be a fourth for bridge anymore. David - Any communication system that is highly directional is going to operate at a relatively high frequency. That just about guarantees that it will be operating line of sight. That cuts down the possible "Baum-Oz" range. If you want to increase the beamwidth or make it omni that makes it interceptable over a wide area. Likewise if you want to use sky waves. Are you imagining Glinda is using some type of spread spectrum modulation? Maybe Hedy Lamarr tipped her off. :) David - >There has definitely been an increase in the average temperature of the earth over the past couple of decades. Whether this is because of "greenhouse effect" or some other cause is debatable, but not that it's happening. Now David, please provide a source for this "definite increase." James Hansen of NASA Goddard, who pretty much started the whole global-warming scare, admits his study of land areas, where the effects of global warming would be most severe, revealed that 1995 was about 0.02 degrees celsius cooler than 1990. ( Do you have newer data than that reported in 1996?) There are a bunch of people, with questionable motivation, who are pushing this idea. Give us facts. Does anyone remember the Ehrlich's and their "Population Bomb?" According to them we should all be packed onto earth like sardines now. They are still out their spouting the same trash. I admit the commute around here is a bit congested but really. And, I still think Oz is now smothered with chickens. :) By the way, I didn't know you were a "Limbaugh fan." JOdel - I hope you feel better soon. Labor Day Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 00:56:28 -0500 From: "Warren H. Baldwin" Subject: Ozzy Digest Query Re the recent discussion on aging in Oz: someone quoted Glinda as saying in one of the Thompson stories that one might choose whether or not to age on their birthday (loosely stated). But on a wordsearch of all the Thompson books I could not find the word "birthday" or "birthdays" in that context in any of them. Have I missed it? Was it maybe in a forward or afterword instead of the main text? Was the commentator mistaken? Now, we can't have Glinda misquoted! :-) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 09:03:41 -0600 From: Richard_Tuerk@tamu-commerce.edu (Richard Tuerk) Subject: _The Emerald City of Oz_ On 29 Aug. David Hulen wrote: >I don't know - I think that if the point had been to have the rather >idle journey of Dorothy and company through Oz punctuated by the >suspense of seeing the Nome King's plot working its way to fruition, >there should be some mention of said plot after they'd left the Fuddles. >The whole business of the zebra and the crab, Utensia (my personal >favorite bit of their travels), Bunbury, Bunnybury, Flutterbudget >Center, Rigmarole Town, and everything in between is uninterrupted by >any adumbration of what Roquat is up to. If Baum was trying for suspense >in the Hitchcockian sense, I don't think he did a very good job of it. I think this assesment is basically accurate. IN this book, Baum really doesn't seem to have been too interested in making the two plots work together, except that both provide him with an opportunity to presenting to his readers a travelog through parts of Oz and of some neighboring kingdoms. He wanted to be entertaining and exciting, but he does not seem to have been concerned with having the tour of Oz contribute to the suspense. Perhaps he thought the suspense surrounding the Nomes' invasion plans so great that he wanted to provide his young readers with a rest, an opportunity to calm down before the next episode involving the Nomes. Rich Tuerk ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 15:23:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Perryman Subject: Oz Its Garrett I'm finally back from my vacation in New York and in Marthas Vinyard.While on Martha's Vinyard I found that a library there had 29 Oz books. Dave: Send me the digests from August 21 - August 26. My machine was mad and killed those digests. Everyone:Is anyone interested in Trot or Betsy Garrett ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 97 15:12:07 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZMA EX MACHINA: Mike D. wrote: >I agree. The biggest problem with many of the later Oz books (_EC_, >_Patchwork_, and especially the Thompson titles) is that the characters no >longer have to think in order to solve their problems. Either Glinda shows >up and snaps her magic fingers, or some other solution just falls into >their collective laps, and everyone heads off to the palace to party. This of course is the problem in the Oz books that led to Tyler's "Generic Oz Story"... _Patchwork_, the best I think of the post-_EC_ books, would of course not have had this problem if only the butterfly had been blue. In my _Locasta_, all the magic in Oz is neutralized by the villians, so a "quick fix" is not possible. And in _That Ozzy Feeling_ the Magic Belt "runs down", forcing Ozma to use her own wits, which as it turns out are substantial. GLOBAL WARMING: As you all know, I try to stay out of the non-Ozzy political discussions here on the Digest... However the environment is one area I have trouble ignoring; but instead of giving a lengthy speech I'll simply ask this: If there's absolutely no foundation whatsoever for global warming, then why are the auto companies becoming so keen on developing electric cars? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 2 - 4, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:00:45 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 > From: Bob Spark > A bit earlier I read and remarked here on Baum's "The Flying Girl" > and "The Flying Girl and Her Chum", both of which I thoroughly > disliked. In these stories he has featherheaded females (and fatuous, > pompous males) counterpoised against the heroine and her chum, both of > whom are level-headed and capable. I felt that these books were shallow > and one-dimensional besides being poorly plotted. Maybe it's unfair of > me to compare them to his Oz books, but I couldn't help doing so. > It is not the portrayal of women that bothers me in Baum's "serious" works, after all, the women are usually the most intelligent and resourceful characters in the books. What is more disturbing is the incredible coincidences upon which the resolution of so many of his plots depend. Often a long lost document shows up at the last minute and clears up the plot. The worst case may be in MAY LOUISE: -----------------------------SPOILER FOR MARY LOUISE Mary Louise's father had been accused of giving secret documents to the Germans during WWI (Shades of the Dreyfus affair!). Inside one of the books she purchases from a bookseller is a secret "For Your Eyes Only" letter by the German Ambassador in which her father is demonstrated to have innocent. ____END OF SPOILER > From: "David G. Hulan" > > Nickel is a metal that doesn't tarnish or corrode easily, but then so is > tin. I'm not sure what the advantage of nickel-plating tin would be. > Nickel is much harder than tin, but a plating wouldn't have that much > effect. Nickel plating was done to inhibit corrosion. The Tim Woodman was very liable to rust (something very unusual for the non-ferrous metal tin. Volkov made more sense when he changed him into the Iron Woodman. Did "tin cans" in the 1890s rust? JOdel > Baum appears to have had a clear understanding > of both chickens and dogs, at any rate. I'm less convinced that he really > knew and understood cats. If he had, he might not have simply given them > speech, and made them sound concieted. Cats aren't, particularly. Being > predators, they seem convinced that they cannot afford to lose face, but they > seem no more concieted than most other non-canines. Baum's cats show aloofness and a lack of "willingness to please" that is typical of cats in general. They are not social animals, but each maintains its own territory. The cat's habit of playing with its prey rather than taking a quick kill has long been known as a feline trait. Eureka's behavior at her trial is very catlike. She is surprised that anyone would be offended by her actions. The Glass Cat is also feline in hiding her(?) true feelings when in MAGIC she slowly walks away from the endangered Trot and Cap'n Bill, but dashes away as soon as she is out of sight. I think Baum knew cats. There is the story of how he held one of his sons outside of a window to show him how it felt when he dropped a cat. One of the "Queen Visitors" stories concerns a young boy who throws things at an alley cat, and the visitors from Oz turn him into an alley cat for one night to see what it is like. Also one of the valleys in Merryland is the Valley of Cats. > ====================================================================== > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:38:34 -0500 (EST) > From: Jeremy Steadman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-29-97 > From: David Levitan > > Hi, > What happened to Eureka after Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz? > Thanks You havwe touched on one of the great Oz mysteries. Several books have been written on that very question. She eventually becomes a permanent resident of Oz even though there is no canonical account of her return. After her return she is always Pink or Purple, hever white. March Laumer has the Shaggy Man make a special trip to Kansas for the purpose of bringing Dorothy's pet back in the notorious THE CARELESS KANGAROO OF OZ. Chris Dulabone wrote THE COLORFUL KITTEN OF OZ. > > AT THE MOVIES: > I remember someone asking about Miss Gulch's bicycle and whether it would be > anachronistic for 1899 (when the HACC says _WizOz_ actually occured) -- I > watched _Adventure in Baltimore_, which takes place in 1905, and in one scene > Shirley Temple and John Agar are seen riding modern-looking bicycles...Of > course this doesn't prove that *they* aren't anachronistic, but since they > (unlike MGM with _WizOz_) were striving to recreate a particular period, > one would hope that they did their homework. > > -- Dave > My point was that there was nothing in the MGM film to suggest that the events of the film were not contemporary to 1939, while RTO is clearly period. Baum certainly intended EC to be his last Oz book, and therefore went out of his way to give the readers a greater feeling for the nature of the country than he had previously done. Fot that reason, the tour de OZ that is given to Uncle Henry and Aunt Em is also intended for the readership. Baum had a strong sense of Whimsy, and here gave it free rein (even to the extent of having a race of Whimsies). In many ways the Oz chapters of EC are more like THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO than anything else in Baum's series. I agree with David that Utensia was among my favorite chapters of the books; it is the punniest passage in the entire canon. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:57:29 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 At 04:01 PM 9/1/97 -0700, Dave L. Hardenbrook wrote: >GLOBAL WARMING: >If there's absolutely no foundation whatsoever for >global warming, then why are the auto companies becoming so keen on >developing electric cars? Tax breaks and public image. Of course it all boils down to $$$. What else would motivate a large corporation? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:10:01 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest I don't think the Kansas sequences in the MGM film are intended to take place in 1939. There's no evidence of gasoline-powered farm equipment, and the women's dresses are ankle-length or lower. The treaded rubber tire that is hanging from a tree near the incubator looks as if it came from a very early motor car. As far as the incubator itself is concerned, it looks fairly primitive, and incubators had been around since at least the early 19th century. Moreover, Miss Gulch's bicycle could easily be from the period around 1900. I have a copy of some old sheet music (E.T. Paull's "New York and Coney Island Cycle March Two-Step", 1896) with a glorious full-color cover illustration that depicts at least twenty-three cyclists on bicycles that look just like Miss Gulch's. The filmmakers may not have been trying to create a historically correct turn-of-the-century Kansas farm, but they seemed to have in mind a generalized and nostalgic image of the American rural past. Some comments on EC: This book is especially noteworthy, I think, in that it provides the basic model for many of the Thompson books: the Irate Beginning Chapter (some monarch or other exploding with rage), the dual plot lines, the succession of episodes depicting one quaint little kingdom after another I agree with David H. that the Bunnybury episode doesn't have much in common with _Alice in Wonderland_ except for the white rabbits, but EC as a whole comes closer to Lewis Carroll than Baum's other books in its biting satire of the misbehavior of adults. How many of us have known people who fall to pieces as a form of defensive behavior, like the Fuddles? Or people--adults--who resort to infantalism when asked to be responsible, like the Bunny King? (I love the way he first appears, weeping and lying on his back kicking his legs in the air like a baby!) The prolixity of the inhabitants of Rigmarole Town and the paranoia of the Flutterbudgets are further very familiar examples of adults behaving badly. For that matter, I think the inclusion of Greek and Latin in the curriculum of Professor Wogglebug's college is not necessarily out of reverence for the classical tradition, particularly since these languages are acquired very expeditiously by swallowing a pill. Baum was undoubtedly satirizing the pedagogy of foreign-language instruction at the turn of the century, which typically involved heavy doses of grammar (memorizing grammatical tables) and laboriously translating uplifting passages from the ancient texts. Like the memorization and recitation of low-grade inspirational verse ("The Boy Stood on the Burning Deck," "The Charge of the Light Brigade"), this kind of rote learning was essentially a brain-dead activity, and Baum was quite right in suggesting that it might as well have been accomplished by taking a pill for all the good it did in teaching people how to think, or how to feel. Incidentally: Bunbury has *got* to be an allusion to _The Importance of Being Earnest_. "[The wheelbarrow is] made of nabiscos with a zuzu wheel": Does anyone know what a zuzu wheel was? And if "nabisco" was a common noun, what did it mean? A generic square cracker? Joyce is undoubtedly correct in saying that Ozma's eerie passivity in accepting the attack of Roquat's assembled forces is one of the most problematic aspects of this book. Can anyone imagine Tip acting like this? And are we to believe that a ruler who is so clueless about defending herself spends her days helping other people resolve their quarrels? The only answer I can think of here is that Baum was sacrificing Ozma's character in order to justify his decision to discontinue the Oz series. By making Ozma seem so helpless and defenseless against outside aggression, he underscored the need to make Oz invisible and out of reach forever. I also agree with Mike Denio that there are some serious ethical problems raised in the way Ozma and the others take care of the invading forces. Admittedly these are very scary enemies--the Phanfasms in particular could have been conceived by Stephen King--but the Water of Oblivion calls to mind the practice of neutralizing aggressive behavior by frontal lobotomies. I was out of town when the discussion of dictionaries was going on and have nothing to add at this point except to say that I thought Robin's eloquent remarks were simply wonderful. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:13:10 +0000 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 Jeremy: I like Netscape E-mail better than AOL's, though that's not saying a whole lot. I haven't had any problem making it do what I want it to, but then I'm not very demanding, either. I'm probably going to try Eudora Light one of these days, when I get around to downloading it; friends tell me it's excellent, and it's free. You can use it with any ISP, I think, though maybe not with the ones that are also content-providers like AOL and CompuServe. I haven't tried Pegasus, but a friend who used to use it says Eudora Light is much easier to use, though not quite as powerful. Eudora Pro is supposed to be even better, but it does cost $50 or so. I don't think Joyce was implying that an army of 27 (at least, the Oz army of 27) was any more competent than an army of one. And neither would have been of any use against the Nome King's invasion. It's just that Ozma seemed to change from an aggressive type who "invaded" the Nome King's dominions in OZMA to one who wouldn't even fight in self-defense in EC. Mike D.: I was referring only to relative reflectivity when I said chrome is brighter than nickel, not to which I'd rather have on an article I owned. Less than 30 years between _Emerald City_ and _Animal Farm_, IIRC. I'm pretty sure the latter was published in 1939. Anybody have a copy they could check? Melody: >There's one other way Glinda could possibly get a fairyhood--from a >fairy-turned-bad. Theoretically, perhaps Ak or a fairy queen has the power >to "defrock" a bad fairy and give their fairyhood to someone else if they >so choose. This assumes a couple of facts that are not in evidence - that a fairy can turn bad (no evidence of it in Baum, though Faleero seems to be a case from Thompson), and that this fairyhood is transferrable to a mortal. I can't prove it's impossible, but one would think that it wouldn't be necessary to go through the elaborate business of the Cloak of Immortality for Santa Claus if there were other ways of bestowing immortality. I concede that in _Wizard_ Dorothy appears to have some attachment to Kansas, but that seems to have disappeared as she grew a little older and became much more well-traveled, between her trip to Australia and her several trips to Oz and the surrounding countries. Craig: I believe that hardcovers of _Glass Cat_ are only available directly from Books of Wonder. It was a limited edition of 350 copies, IIRC, of which about half had been sold as of a year ago; I don't know about its current availability. The latest catalog I have lists it at $34.95, Item Z25-09140. Toll free number for ordering is 800-835-4315. Bear: If my theory about Oz is correct then California may well be in line-of-sight to the Emerald City, at least part of the time, so that a directional radio beam could get there as long as it had the characteristics needed to get through the magical barrier. I'll have to do research on the global warming. I've seen figures cited in sources that I trust, but I don't have any at my fingertips. As for _The Population Bomb_, I don't recall just what they predicted, but it's true that within the last 50 years the population of the world has gone from 2 billion to 9 billion, and population growth doesn't seem to be slowing down. It will eventually, of course, but there's likely to be a lot of misery involved in the process. You and I are fortunate enough that we're unlikely to live to see it, but overpopulation is a whole lot likelier to make our children or grandchildren miserable than government regulations. I'm not a "Limbaugh fan," but I listen to him every once in a while to renew my faith in the essential gullibility of the far right. Garrett: What do you mean by "Is anyone interested in Trot or Betsy?" I find Trot a very appealing character, and have used her in _Glass Cat_ and in a short story that was in _Oziana_ a couple of years ago. Betsy I find rather less appealing, but I've nothing against her. We haven't talked about them as much as Dorothy because we haven't yet gotten to the books where they appear. (Speaking of which, though, do I remember correctly that when we finish discussing EC, we're moving on to _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_ before coming back to Oz for _Patchwork Girl_? I know we agreed that those two books should be discussed before _Scarecrow_, but I forget whether we were going to take them in publication order, in which case they'd be next, or right before _Scarecrow_. It might be a good idea to publicize this, because people might want time to order those books if we're going to start discussing them in a month or so. Borders has them in PB, but BoW is offering the two in HC for $39.95, which is a good deal.) Dave: The auto companies are keen on developing electric cars because California is requiring that some fraction of the cars each company sells in the state be zero-emission by some date, electric cars are currently the only kind that are zero-emission, and the auto companies want to sell cars in California. It's one of those nasty government regulations, like the ones that make kids go to school instead of working in factories for a dollar a day the way they would in a true capitalist system. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:23:07 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Levitan: An Oz newsgroup doesn't sound like something that I'd take part in. David Hulan and Scott Hutchins: Another Aubrey is Israeli statesman Abba Eban. (Aubrey was his given English name.) David Hulan: Another example of a comic strip where the characters age at the same rate as the readers is "Gasoline Alley," which I believe is still running, although not in the local papers. Dave Hardenbrook: The "safety bicycle" (same-size wheels) was already popular in the 1890's. I recently found some 1896 ads Denslow illustrated which needed drawings of bicycles, and in both he drew safety bicycles rather than "penny farthings" (big wheel/little wheel). He also drew safety bicycles in his "The Scarecrow and the Tin Man" a few years later. Yes, Prof. Wogglebug's college had gone co-ed at least by the time of Neill's "Wonder Book," when one of the students is Alma Mater. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:09:10 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 > From: Mike Denio > Someone brought up the potential for an ethical and philosophical > discussion of the Bunburry chapter, but I feel that Ozma stealing the minds > of all her would-be invaders should raise greater ethical questions. Then > again, it is just a story. > The effects of the water of oblivion is to cause the drinker to forget the past. However it does not impare knowledge of language or of bodily function. Ones intelligence is retained, one only has no memories. In Eric Shanower's story "Abby" (in OZ-STORY 2) Conjo actually had lost everything and became a mindless idiot as a result of the water of oblivion, but that is strictly NOT canonical. > _Emerald City_ is one of my favorite all-around Oz books. I really enjoy > Baum's sarcasm, which is in full gear here, but fades quickly in his later > work. I'm also fascinated by the extent to which socialism had integrated > itself into Baum's writing - obviously the fad of the period. Wasn't it > only forty years or so between _Emerald City_ and _Animal Farm_? I'm > constantly amazed at how people can have such strong definitive perceptions > of the ideal society which invariably look ridiculous to following > generations. We are all truly products of our times. The "socialism" of Baum's time was the Fabian Socialism of Bernard Shaw and H.G. Wells, not the so-called socialism of Stalin and Mao. Most of the goals of the Fabians were achieved without their ever having got into power (which might have been a good thing for them). Government in Britain (and America) has become much more responsive to the needs of the people. (I believe in clean air and clean water, and if it requires governmental action to provide themn God bless governmental action!) > On the other hand, other aspects of human behaviour (like the Flutterbudgets) seem to be > timeless. > > Everyone:Is anyone interested in Trot or Betsy > > Garrett > Cap'n Bill and Hank certainly are!!! I just saw the movie CONTACT based on Carl Sagan's novel, and enjoyed it very much. I remember reading (perhaps not in the digest) that someone considered the ending a terrible cop-out. I would like to know why? By the way there is an Oz allusion in the film so it is not totally irrelevant. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:47:23 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Jeremy >Bear: I'm not going to argue--we've had enough little mini-arguments for one Digest. Gee, that was an easy win. I wonder what it was about? :) Bob - You don't make a very good case for the government. >(They got me three times, with the Salk vaccine and the Sabin vaccine in school and then the Army did it again to me. All of these shots and you only needed one? Well, what does it matter, "the government" is paying for them, right? Sigh. David - I have made a resolution to myself to avoid commenting on false dichotomies. I will save such discussions for our eventual meeting over an adult beverage at an Ozcon. Yes, Glinda told me she had every confidence that Ozma could handle the Nome King and his allies so she didn't interfere. John >I,for one, do not care to challenge the authority of Harlan the Great and Terrible. Would you consider challenging the authority of Harlan the Pompous and Arrogant? Craig >Regarding "global warming." What we don't know is exactly what the effect of the change will be... whatever happens, it won't be good, and we should take corrective actions... Do I hear Chicken Little squawking again? We don't know really if anything is wrong, we don't know what will happen, but our feelings tell us we should run out there and do something anyway. Beam me up! Dave >If there's absolutely no foundation whatsoever for global warming, then why are the auto companies becoming so keen on developing electric cars? They aren't "keen" on it. Our government, driven again by those with questionable agendas and little scienctific support have decreed that a certain percentage of autos must by electric by a given year. I forget the exact dates and percentages. Currently electric cars make no sense. The batteries are still too heavy and too inefficient and the performance life is too short. Also, to charge the batteries requires electricity. It is not going to be produced by wind, sunlight, geothermal sources, etc. Our government and the legal system have effectively eliminated the best potential source, nuclear due to public hysteria. Thus, the needed electricity is going to be generated by burning fossil fuels thus producing more pollution. Beam me up again. Sadly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:32:49 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-97 Craig: "What to Expect When You're Expecting," and "What to Expect the First Year," are great pregnancy and baby books. I had them when I was expecting my first & only child. Earl: > "Only bad witches are ugly." Maggie & GWN: What?!? Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:00:55 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 David L.: All I meant was that I didn't want anyone to see an implied "w" and "k" at the beginning and end of the hierarchy (?) name. With the choices we have, that does seem to be the best alternative. By the way, I like your web page (now that I've found it!). "Everyone:Is anyone interested in Trot or Betsy": I could say what comes to mind about that but choose not to. "If there's absolutely no foundation whatsoever for global warming, then why are the auto companies becoming so keen on developing electric cars?": Hear! Idly (and Ozzily) yours, Jeremy Steadman (without Kiex!!!) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:58:37 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@Nash.iupui.edu Subject: The Ozzy Digest special--Review of _The Wiz_ soundtrack Cc: lukas@filmscoremonthly.com _The Wiz_ Music by Charlie Smalls, Quincy Jones, Nickolas Ashford, Valerie Simpson, Anthony Jackson, and Luther Vandross Finally we have a CD reissue of the soundtrack to _The Wiz_, when previously all there was was the Broadway album. There unfortunately is no new material from the LP release, but the booklet is inforative, with photos of many of the behind the scenes personnel, and much fuller music credits than are in the film, which include Dave Grusin, Dick Hyman, Toots Thitelmans, and Ray Simpson of the Village People, among over 100 others. The Bugle article called this a kitchen sink album containing the full score, which, unfortuantely is not true. Notably absent are the Ross-Jackson cues of "Ease on Down the Road" in their film versions. This is an album version with a fade out unlike the discovery of the YBR scene or the end credits. Close enough you might say, but also missing is the wonderful piece for the Subway, when the friends are attacked by urban versions of the Hammerheads, Kalidahs, and Fighting Trees. This piece, which, fortunately, can be heard rather well in the film, is reminiscent of early seventies Jerry Goldsmith, particulary the tree/column theme. The Flying Monkey chase funk/dumpsters underscore is also missing. Some portions of the score have diologue over them (do people buy albums just so they don't have to put the tape recorder up to the TV for the full soundtrack, or for the music, I think the latter. At least it isn't overpoweringly ubiquitous as on the James Horner _Apollo 13_ album, which is not a good presentation of his score, which is not _that_ good to begin with, but the limited promo of the score only is a hot collectible. Given a much longer presentation than in the film is "Poppy Girls," which is less repetitive than the Bugle reviewer would have you believe. It was co-written by bass soloist Anthony Jackson and is a nice jazz piece, and nowhere near as repetitive as Philip Glass (not to rag on Philip Glass for you fans, I also like his music. I've seen _Koyaanisqatsi_.) Reading about the making of the film from Quincy Jones's point of view combined with Sidney Lumet's commments in _The Wiz Book_ (a pb of Baum's text, Denslow's illustrations (I think, I can't remember) in b/w, photos from the film, and an introduction by Lumet), really improves my view of the film, which had always been quite positive, but it convinces me that few people understood what the filmmakers had done. Yes, the Poppy Girls look like prostitutes, but didn't Baum hint this in his 1902 play. I don't think this was Julian Mitchell's idea, since Baum wrote the lyrics. The play had the Lion become seduced, and thrown into a paddywagon by the mouse police, a modern interpretation of the book episode. Interestingly, copiuos amounts of the liner notes are devoted to the song "Is this what Feeling Gets?," which only appears in the film (frequently, though) as an instrumental. Judging from the fact the underscore still is contained in the film, and the comments given by Jones it was in the scene with Dorothy in the motel room, and dealt with the morality of killing Evillene, the Wicked Witch of the West, to get home. Dorothy discusses it with her friends in the film version, instead. There is yet more missing from thje album, less important cues like the creepy six-note recorder motif for the Subway Peddler (Clyde J. Barrett), (a character who originally was to appear in _Tip of Oz_, but I can't remember what he was to do in it, anyway) and the dark droning polymorphic synthesizer, which is not much of a loss. Unfortunately, Richard Pryor, though quite good in his role, is not a singer, and could not play the rock star figure represented in the play with two songs (one appears briefly in instrumental here, followed by dialogue. As an added bonus, all of the artists who worked on the album are given credit, and all the lyrics are included, for those fans who have not memorized them (at least those in the play on the old album). 4 (if it had been expanded, a 4 1/2) Scott Hutchins ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:41:19 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Re: Dave Hulan: "I don't think Trot or Betsy really do anything significant as part of the rescue party in _Lost Princess_." This is interesting in light of the fact that Baum's second choice for the title of the book that became _Lost Princess_ was "Three Girls in Oz". (His first choice was "Adventures in Oz", as the book is referred by that name in the introduction to _Rinkitink_.) [Source: The Baum Bugle] Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:52:36 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@Nash.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 Craig-- Computer models of global warming have so far been inaccurate. So greens say that the actual figures are wrong and that theoretical figures should be followed, and regulations made by them. This is screwy. Harlan Ellison, yes _A Boy and His Dog_. If any of you saw Pavel Arsyenov's film of _Volshebnik Izumrudnogo Goroda_, you can tell he was influenced by L.Q. Jones's film, by the interaction of Elli and Totoshka. In _Tip of Oz_, Tip mentions he has read Ellison, whcih is the triplicate Harlan (Oz fan), Ralph (Tip could care less that Aubrey's boyfriend happens to be black, and Katherine (my friend). Has anyone seen _El Caballero del Dragon_, by Fernando Colombo (released in the U.S. as _Star Knight_. It has something to to with "Ix," bu not necessarily our Ix. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:31:23 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Ozzy Digest Hello everyone! I'm afraid the semester is taking over my time to read for fun already! Classes haven't officially started but I have 7 articles for tomorrow evening's class. Isn't grad school fun! Alas, I am fallen behind in my ECOO; I hope my questions, concerns,m etc. will be accepted later. Danny, I liked your differentiation between suspense and surprise. I'm filing it for later use. Bob Spark, I liked that quote about peculiarity and each of us having one. What a boring world this would be if we were all the same! As for the Flying Girl books, I haven't read them, but I think I'm going to pursue this idea and read those books, too, despite the not-so-good recommendation. In a way the styles of Oz and the Girl books may be different, but if the ideas contained within are so different, there seems to be soemthing out-of-whack. Dave Hulan, with the Lewis discussion of myth and the like,it reminds me of how well the Oz fits into the oral tradition of literature. The repeated characters, elements, style, etc., etc, would have worked well in the society's in which storytellers were the key communicators of not only news, but entertainment and education as well. These standards in the tales allowed people to pick up on the story in the middle of a storyteller's performance, as well as remember the tales to pass on to others. Geez, I feel another project coming on . . . Also, I don't let shagginess deter me from anyone, but that just could be the result of too many Godfather movies for me! As for the comic book illustrations telling the story instead of just accompanying it, that's what Shanower told me, which makes a lot of sense to me. Comics have always been a more visual medium. With all this talk of Billina and chicken's, I just picture Gonzo a running across the screen . . . Bear, I'm working on the non-sort-of-boyfriend part, but shucks, these things take time! And, it wasn't a date . . . I actually wanted to help and he thought I was a bit weird for that, but oh well.. He seems shocked that I'm not allergic to outdoor kind of work. I've graduated to feeding the calves, so that's something isn't it? Jeremy, as for the unrefined looking folk getting an unfair twist, I agree. I was always so frustrated wiht my colleagues that walked around saying things like, "look at the way he/she dresses, no wonder he/she is failing." What, I ask, do a person's clothes have to do with his/her ability to take notes off of the board? JOdel, in reference to the multiple story lines being a more sophisticated technique and aimed at a higher level of reading than the previous novels, I thought about the Disney movies, especially Aladdin, where the jokes seemed to directed at more of an adult level than kids. I wonder if Baum did this to make the reading more interesting for the parents reading to their children as Disney did to help parents sit through the movie? As for the writing being disjointed, I'm doing some asking around . . . I never thought about that here in America, but in England that kind of writing was common. Peace & Love, Bompi ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:02:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 X-Authentication-warning: gaston.tenet.edu: robino owned process doing -bs Nickel: FWIW, there is a grade of silver called nickel silver. It's considered cheap silver. 'twouldn't surprise me a bit if Baum knew this and was writing tongue in cheek. David: I'll really check for "Ainur" next time I read LOTR, although I suspect it's not there. J.E.A. Tyler's THE TOLKIEN COMPANION says not a word about Ainur. About the Istari, well,there were 5 of 'em sent from Valinor as an order of wizards. Their job was to unite the good guys and fight against Sauron's evil. They were Valinorans, not mortals. That's about it. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:31:02 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 11-20-96 Tyler: Baum at first made Ozma an ordinary princess--later he transmogrified her into a fairy. Looks like he might have been doing the same to Glinda. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by delphi.com From: Bruce Gray Subject: Dark Side of the Rainbow Hi Dave and co! For those interested in such things, I just found a -great- web site for those interested in exploring the connection between Pink Floyd's "Dark SIde of the Moon" and the 1939 movie. It's called "Dark Side of the Rainbow" and can be found at: I also have a link to it on my Ozzy web site: BTW, if you have a great Ozzy web site I don;t know about please send the URL along. Thanks! lbrucegray@rica.net http://206.107.180.50:80/CaptainNemo/index.htm ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 19:54:45 -0700 From: "A.E. Schaible" Subject: Ozzy Digest Jeremy Steadman: Lewis Carroll in "Jabberwocky" wrote of Mome raths, not Nome raths. David Hulan: Sorry for messing up your name. Liz ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 00:11:45 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Robert: I would definitely agree that Dorothy's experiences would make her mature beyond her years, although by now she's over 100 years old. Tunnel: It is possible that with all of the Nomes in there during the digging, and the army marching in afterwards, there was too much magical interference to close the tunnel. Whe was only able to put the dust in there. Or perhaps she tried to close the tunnel and the best the belt could do was to fill the tunnel with dust. Bear: Well, LOTR does not actually SAY that Gandalf was Ainur, but it is implied and theorized about in some of the guides and lexicons of Middle-Earth. Also, there is some discussion in _THe Silmarillion_ that some Ainur went into the world as Wizards. David L: Your question of Eureka is an interesting one. She was taken home by Dorothy at the end of _Dorothy and the Wizard_. She was not mentioned at all during _Road_, and she was not brought to Oz by Dorothy, Em or Henry. Yet, in _Patchwork Girl_, Shaggy mentions her a well-established presence in the Royal Palace. Some people have theorized that Eurkea quietly followed the party in _Road_ and nobody wanted to send her back. Also, March Laumer has written a very interesting and involved story about how Eureka REALLY got to Oz... Dave: In _A Runaway in Oz_, we meet a female student at the Wogglebug's College. Melody: It seems to me that you are working the Glinda-as-fairy angle backwards. In other words, you want Glinda to be a fairy, so you look for ways that it could have happened and declare that as evidence that she is. Granted, Glinda MAY be a fairy, somebody MIGHT have given her the gift, but all the evidence to date says that she is not, and she does not act like a fairy. Is that really so bad in the long run? She is still very powerful and immortal. She is highly respected and loved throughout Oz. To use a little bit of left-wing logic: Does Glinda really NEED to be a fairy? Warren: Could you do a search of the Thompson texts on the word "age" and see if you get anything related to birthdays and not growing old? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 18:46:24 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Bob wrote-- > I didn't consider the information about the Lewis Carroll mailing > list to be spam. > Well, true, but I figured better to ask forgiveness than permission! BTW-- I've had limited success with the Carroll mailing list. Apparently, Amy "Watersnake" compiles the list a la Dave does with ours, but I've only gotten my own messages back with Amy's responces. Apparently, not many others of the few list members are as talkative as the Ozzy posters here! David wrote: >If Baum was trying for suspense > in the Hitchcockian sense, I don't think he did a very good job of it. Well, comparatively, Baum achieves a level of suspence that hasn't been explored in earlier books, due mostly to juggling the parallel stories-- just one aspect of suspence that Hitchcock might use. I agree that if this was Baum's chief aim-- suspence-- it could be manufactured better (Baum's craft of writing sometimes leaves a bit to be desired) In a way, it seems like the suspence that is there is almost an accident-- again, by way of the parallel plots. Someone mentioned that Baum could have spotlighted the Fountain's role a bit earlier-- this is an example of what could have hieghtened the book's structure. > > And welcome back - I've been wondering where you've been! > I've been busy :P One project that might interest all here regard the Oz comic from Caliber Comics. (Although others might want to skip this section) The creators of Oz (and the similar original stories War of the Worlds) are creating their own comic company, Arrow Comics Group. Oz will wrap up its storylines from Caliber in a limited series titled Dark Oz, (starting in November) and will start a new series Land of Oz, with new stories. More personally, Oz will spin off into a Wonderland comic, and I have been chosen to be the one handling the art. Dorothy will find herself thrown into Wonderland, where she will meet a grown up and seasoned adventurer Alice, and together they will have to rescue Glinda, who has been captured by the Queen of Hearts. I have drawn a comic detailing the Jabberwocky poem that will appear in Arrow Anthology #1 in November. The WOnderland Prequel will be in Arrow Anthology #2 in December, and the Wonderland series starts January 98. So as you can see, I've been busy! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:38:43 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: for Ozzie Digest Hi there, I can't remember who recommended Orson Scott Card's _Ender's Game_. Was if one of the Robins? Ruth (if a Ruth is a participant in this discussion)? I'm lousy with names. At any rate, thanks. I enjoyed it. For the greater part of the book (certainly not as a whole) I was struck by the idea that Harry Harrison's _Bil, the Galactic Hero_ could be taken as a parody (_Bil_ is spelled correctly). I find _Bil_ to be hilarious. Perhaps it's just my twisted sense of humor. Maybe you'd have to have been in the army to appreciate it. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 10:34:50 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest (9/3) X-Authentication-warning: mail3.geocities.com: wht2b6e05.resnet.iup.edu [144.80.104.94] didn't use HELO protocol Craig: I don't really see anything all that odd about Ozites studying subjects like Greek and Latin. The people of Oz seem to speak English, which has some of its roots in these languages. As for learning "The Charge of the Light Brigade," this knowledge of Outside World literature is certainly not an isolated incident in the Oz series. King Dox of Foxville is familiar with Aesop's fables, and the Dictator of Dicksy Land reads a book by Dickens. Anyway, the Education Pills were invented by the Wizard, who certainly has knowledge of Outside World subjects. Anyone notice that the Ozites were apparently familiar with baseball in _Emerald City_, but seemed to be unfamiliar with the sport in Thompson's books? Joyce: Baum does use multiple plotlines in _Emerald City_, but does not seem to have perfected the technique. The adventures of Dorothy's party comprise much more of the book than do Guph's travels. Also, it is clearly documented when Dorothy's party eats or sleeps. We have no idea when (or if) Guph did these things, and how long his journey took. I actually thought that Thompson developed the character of the Cowardly Lion a little more than Baum did (although, admittedly, Thompson's Lion acts very much like most of the other large animals in her books). The McGraws' Lion reminds me more of Thompson's Lion than of Baum's. Jeremy: Those are MOME raths, not NOME raths. Humpty Dumpty defines them as lost green pigs. David Levitan: Eureka eventually came to Oz to live, although when this happened is not clearly documented in the FF. By _Patchwork Girl_, Eureka lives in the Emerald City, but _Dorothy and the Wizard_ is really the cat's only major role within the FF. Dave Hulan: By the time of _Wonder City_, the Wogglebug's College is co-ed. In that book, we meet a female student named Alma Mater. (Get it?) Nathan Mulac DeHoff vovat@geocities.com or lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 21:43:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Oz A question Dave, Can you post this? Digesters might be able to help. Respond in person as she is not a member of the Digest. Jane --------------------- Forwarded message: From: eliassen@sfsu.edu (Meredith Eliassen) CC: eliassen@sfsu.edu Date: 97-08-25 21:24:20 EDT I received my copy of the L.Frank Baum/Oz survey, thank you. I am working on an essay on scorned literature regarding a period in the 1960's when a number of public libraries pulled Oz books from their shelves because they did not want to maintian the series. I have more than enough information on that period, but I wanted to update the article by discussing how libraries feel about the early Oz books now, mainly to see if libraries have re-evaluated their collection policies. Can you recommend someone that I can talk to who might be quoted for this article. I have some time to work on this essay, and there are many thought-provoking issues that have come up, which could make for a "meaty" article. Thank you in advance for your assistance. Meredith Eliassen Archives/Special Collections San Francisco State University Library 1630 Holloway Avenue San Francisco, CA. 94132 ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:20:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@stutz.iupui.edu Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours (fwd) Oz I never seem to be able to contact Bill Wright, but this information my me of interest. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:23:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours ********************************************** ** THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY ** ** YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE ** ********************************************** The original message was received at Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:16:09 +0200 (MET DST) from root@iris.iupui.EDU [134.68.220.32] ----- The following addresses had transient non-fatal errors ----- bw@neptun.computas.no (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- bw@neptun.computas.no... Deferred: Connection refused by neptun.computas.no. Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 5 days old Reporting-MTA: dns; aslan.computas.no Arrival-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:16:09 +0200 (MET DST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; bw@aslan.computas.no X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; bw@neptun.computas.no Action: delayed Status: 4.4.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; neptun.computas.no Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:23:27 +0200 (MET DST) Will-Retry-Until: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:16:09 +0200 (MET DST) Return-Path: From: sahutchi@stutz.iupui.edu Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:33:43 -0500 (EST) cc: "'sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu'" Subject: Re: Oz films In-Reply-To: <716F89869E70CF11BA8100805F389C523FCC2C@NEPTUN> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have no idea what this is, but it is not the boxed set. There is an airplane in Larry Semon's 1925 film _Wizard of Oz_ in which Snowball flies the Scarecrow on a rope, but the Scarecrow crashes into a water tower, ending the dream. I've read that Larry Semon was never able to finish anything, so it stops, even without a cliffhanger. There is the 1967 film Dan Mannix had seen, but his description does not allow for an airplane, nor does Chris Lofven's _Oz_, which has Dorothy in a van crash. I have not seen these latter two, nor have I seen Jim Abrahams's _Airplane!_, but I believe all that has is someone yell "It's a twister!" It is not the 1991 Sugar & Spice partody, or any other comic version I am awarte of. It might be _The Kentucky Fried Movie_, but I don't know. At any rate, I've never seen it. Perhaps it's the 1956 film I ordered from Reel but have yet to receive. I would love to see the advertisement, though. It might lead me to discover what film this is. Scott On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Bill Wright wrote: > Scott, > > Have received a query from someone, the question think you may be more > knowledgeable than I. > > >An advertisement in a recent inflight magazine (Southwest) > for a set of videos references a movie version that had them going to > Oz in an airplane. Since so many movie takeoffs have been done on > the Oz books, I am trying to find out which movie version has the > airplane transportation. > > >I've just contacted classic movies and asked them to read the sleeves > on the videos they are offering in a 4 boxed set hoping to find a > reference to Dorothy flying via airplane on the sleeve promo of one of > them. > > I'm not aware of any movie that has Dorothy flying to Oz in an airplane. > Does this ring a bell with you?? > > Bill in Ozlo > > ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Sep 97 23:27:51 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DIANA: I'm still in shock after hearing today that Princess Diana Spencer is now in Oz. First Carl Sagan, now her! I'm just so devested and depressed! Well, at least Ozma will protect her at long last from the "gutterpress" that helped kill her. GLOBAL WARMING: Bear wrote: >Do I hear Chicken Little squawking again? Instead of posting a passionate rebuttal, I think I'll just give you James Thurber's retelling of that classic fable: "Once upon a time a little red hen was picking up stones and worms and seeds in a barnyard when something fell on her head. "'The heavens are falling down!' she shouted... "All the hens that she met and all the roosters and turkeys and ducks laughed at her, smugly, the way you laugh at one who is terrified when you aren't... "Finally a...rooster said to her, 'Don't be silly, my dear, it was only a pea that fell on your head.' "And he laughed and laughed and everybody else except the little red hen laughed. "Then suddenly with an awful roar great chunks of crystalized cloud and huge blocks of icy blue sky began to drop on everybody...for the heavens actually *were* falling down[!] "MORAL: It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they did." :) :) :) My point is that "Chicken Little" is always invoked (as though scientests were all ranting maniacs) as an _Argumentum ad Hominem_ against those who understand how delicate the balance of nature truly is. Let's make sure the "little red hens" are in fact wrong before we laugh at them. Maybe tomorrow I'll have something Ozzy to say... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 5, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 22:57:54 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 Rich: > Perhaps he thought the suspense surrounding the Nomes' invasion plans so great that he wanted to provide his young readers with a rest, an opportunity to calm down before the next episode involving the Nomes.< Good thought there. As Robin once observed, modern stories seem lacking in comic relief, or film editors are too quick to hack comic relief out of a film (It does not advance the story! Off with its head!) & keep all the violence. (As was done to "Return of the Jedi" when it aired. They chopped out the scene where C-threepio tells the Ewoks the Star Wars saga, complete with sound effects. Good grief! They should've cut some of those redundant, redundant, redundant Rebels VS the Evil Empire fight scenes--but it sure looked like every repetitive, redundant fight scene made it intact. Two vhs versions of Fleischer's animated "Gulliver's Travels" cut the very scenes I remembered best & thought were funniest. Finally bought an unbutchered third version--and it was CHEAPER than the butchered versions(!) You sound like a person who can't stand books/movies/etc that are awful punishing killer suspense all the way through, either. Apparently, for a change, Baum wanted to show some everyday life in Oz, and let the burgeoning invasion of Oz carry the plot. My Oz book contest entry, "Forever in Oz," showed a lot of everyday life in Oz & let Nick Chopper's strange family situation carry the plot. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 06:32:58 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 Bear, My point was that I (and everyone else) was protected from polio. I never claimed efficiency for the government. I just don't believe that it is necessarily malevolent (unless Newt, Helms, Dick Armey or others of their ilk are involved). > Is anyone interested in Trot or Betsy? I believe that the question was meant in an erotic sense, as some of us seem to have those feelings for Polychrome and Ozma. > "those are MOME raths, not NOME raths" It seems to me that Garrett meant this as a pun. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:28:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 X-Authentication-warning: Joyce-Perkins.tenet.edu: robino owned process doing -bs Every time I see a mention of how Carrollian Bunbury is, I think, "Yeah, but the REAL Carroll episodes are in COWARDLY LION." Even Neill seems to have caught on...I'm at school now and don't have access to the books, but there's a drawing of a gal who could be Carroll's Duchess just as well as the Tenniel version. The Doorways i.e. is especially Carrollian, I think, with its dragging through keyholes and a feeling of senselessness and frustration. Anyone else see it this way? It feels so like ALICE with a rational being observing irrationality. (Kinda like I feel in school some days!) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:46:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 X-Authentication-warning: Joyce-Perkins.tenet.edu: robino owned process doing -bs I hope I'm the only one to point this out, but my post in the previous DIGEST came headed with a really FUNny header. I wonder if there's a not-so-subtle message in it... Here 'tis:>>X-Authentication-warning: gaston.tenet.edu: robino owned process doing -bs<< ENDER'S GAME: It *is* a good book, isn't it! Who's "Bil"? (Gee, I hate displaying my ignorance in public, but I just don't "get" it.) --R. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:51:24 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 GORDON: <> Indeed, this might well be the cause of the downhill slide of the Oz series during RPT's term as Royal Historian. (That is my opinion, as a 1990's reader, of course. She did add to the series, and her style must have been appropriate for her era.) BUNNYBURY:: It maybe a humorous reflection on some adults; it certainly doesn't reflect well on rabbits! DAVID HULAN: <> I'm not Rushing to listen to him either. SPEAKING OF _CONTACT_: I have a book (at home, which is why I can't remember the bibliographic info), set in the near future, about contact with another life form (a sentience, really) that came from a space trip somewhere. The author was one of the astronauts who landed on the moon, I think. (THe cover said, "The only book about space by a man who has actually been there," or something like that.) The title is one word; I would say it might be _Contact_ except that the author was not Carl Sagan. (One of the author's names began with a G, I think.) Does anyone have any idea what book I'm talking about? RE GOVERNMENTAL PROTECTION: Bear, don't you think it's good that the government is helping protect us? Or would you prefer we all died from dangerous causes? OZBOT: I've been called many things in my life, but that's the first time I've ever been compared to a poster :-) . --Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 16:51:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 9-03-97 Sheesh. Third post. Sorry. Copyright date on _Animal Farm_ is 1946. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 21:40:00 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls David - Animal Farm was 1945. Remember? :) And, without going into it further, I continue to be amused at your view of a "capitalist system." Where did you get this experience with one? Liz - You will have to get used to Jeremy. He loves playing with words, and making puns; thus: Nome raths, not Mome raths. Dave - Your passion caused you to gallop past my point. Certainly there are hazards to our environment. However, lets not charge off and "just do it" before we know what we are doing. Examples of people in the government with "OPM Disease" abound where what is done doesn't help the problem or even makes it worse. Can you think of some? Sadly, Bear (:<) P.S. You didn't respond to David's query about the next BCF? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 22:18:32 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Gordon: Don't forget that _Emerald City_ also provided the model for that oh-so-famous plot line (in and out of the FF): The endless attempts to conquer Oz. David: To picka nit, the current world population is near 6 billion, and is currently increasing at about 100 million a year. Even my right-wing conservative self thinks this is far too much. FYI, I believe the percentage of electriv cars required in CA is around 10% Melody: Well, Baum did have Glinda go from a Witch to a Sorceress, probably because many people still viewed (and view) witches as being evil. Even in his last book, though, Glinda still worked magic much like the other magic-workers and not much like Ozma. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:02:28 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 Stephen, > What is more disturbing is the incredible coincidences upon which the resolution of so many of his plots depend.< I wonder how much of this can be attributed to the audience he was writing for: generally 10 to 15 year olds. Today perhaps we are a bit more sophisticated and know that problems are not so fortuitously resolved. But perhaps in those earlier days his approach was more in tune with the presumed "innocence" of the reader. Gordon, I agree with your comments on EC, and similar comments by other Digests. I read this book at least 20 times while planning and producing the EC audio book. There are really a lot of funny things in it. In the recording studio sessions the whole cast from time to time would break down into such laughing fits that we had to take a break just to calm down and get back to the business of recording the book. (PS: the various things in Bunbury were popular food products of the period, e.g. Zuzu Wheel.) Bompi, > I wonder if Baum did this to make the reading more interesting for the parents reading to their children as Disney did to help parents sit through the movie? < This same thought occurred to me as I read the books to my children.......if so, I am grateful to him. BTW, I noticed the same thing in The Muppets. The Bert and Ernie routines would have me rolling on the floor when my little ones didn't have a clue as to what was so funny. I presume you watched them as a kid. Now that you are older, go back and watch again. It will be a whole new level of enjoyment. Scott, thanks for the info. My mail server was dead for four days this week. That is why you could not get to me. Regards, Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 13:41:44 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Ozzy Digest Hello, I just finished reading _Harlots of the Desert_ for my Medieval Women's Lit class. Extremely interesting . . . ut now I'm moving on to Oz research! In regards to SteveTeller's comments to B. Spark: Weren't some folks just commenting on the somewhat Deus Ex Machina aspect to certain Oz tales? It seems a lot of authors "write themselves into a corner" and then use this dependable technique to get out. I don't know what this reveals about the writing: lack of effort, confusion as to where it's heading, or just giving people a way out of the tale/story. The Greeks didn't seem to have any problem with the gods coming down from the heavens to save the day, but then again the gods were a large part of their culture and expected to help. Our dislike for this literary technique might alos be related to modern day society's inability or unwillingness to believe in the unbelievable, unreal, or seemingly impossible. As for the women's characters, I'm defintely goin to get ahold of some of his other non-Oz, so for right now, I'll have to not comment about them. In reference to the Bunnybury/Carroll connection, there are some I think more than just the white rabbits (I kept hearing Python's "It's just a bunny rabbit!" while I read it). Namely, the small entrance, the white rabbit who led Dorothy there as Alice was led through the hole and Dorothy needing to shrink her size to enter the town. I found the King's requests to keep his clothes and chair hilarious. it's funny how people complain abou tpositions in life, but when given opportunities to leave, still want the so-called benefits of that position. Then, he changes his mind about leaving the city. Could this be some variation on the "no place like home" idea or am I way off? Steve T.: As for the allusion to _Ernest_, do you think it has anything to do with creating something in your mind and then coming to believe it yourself, or convincing others of its reality, as Baum was attempting to do, and doing, with Oz? Dave Hulan: _Animal Farm_ was published in 1946, only 3 years prior to _1984_. "We are truly a product of our times" - Exactly! We are subjected to the ideas and tnets of our times, and the fact that some of htese eleements of Baum's time show up in his writing to us as later generations seems obvious; however, at the time, it was hard for these to be identified since they were so much a part of the thinking of the period. Jodel: Serialization was common in mid 1800's in England. Often books were completed, but released as serials, whereas folks like Dickens wrote as they went along. A lot of these installments ended in moments of suspense, like today's soap operas, to ensure readership. Maybe Baum's later involvement with newspapers towards the end of the century influenced his writing style. Plus, once Baum gained popularity, he has a sort of freedom to expereiment with styles of writing. Obviously, some successful, some not. Danny, where can I get back copies of the Caliber comic? I moved from VA and can't find it here too easily, at least the back copies. Well, back to the grind. I have to say the illustrations project is coming along . . . Peace & Love, Bompi ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 12:54:41 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MY ISP: Delphi, my Internet Provider just announced a semi-merge with Mindspring, and they are now trying to persuade me to come over to their service. I know there are folks here on Mindspring, so I was wondering if you could tell me how they like Mindspring's Internet service. Sigh. Everytime I get used to how Delphi currently has things set up, they change it. CHILDREN'S BOOKS FOR ADULTS: Bill W. wrote: >This same thought occurred to me as I read the books to my >children.......if so, I am grateful to him. BTW, I noticed the same >thing in The Muppets. The Bert and Ernie routines would have me rolling >on the floor when my little ones didn't have a clue as to what was so >funny. I presume you watched them as a kid. Now that you are older, go >back and watch again. It will be a whole new level of enjoyment. One thing I feel that way about is _The Phantom Tollbooth_...There were a lot of jokes in it that I didn't get until rereading it as an adult. Wordsnacher: "I come from a place called Context, but I prefer to spend my time out of it." "ARE YOU A BAD WITCH, OR A GOOD -- AHEM! -- SORCERESS?": Tyler wrote: >Well, Baum did have Glinda go from a Witch to a Sorceress, probably because >many people still viewed (and view) witches as being evil. Is this maybe also why we hear so little of the Good Witch of the North after _Wizard_, and why RPT made such a point of "terminating" her? OZMA EX MACHINA II: Bompi wrote: >Our dislike for this literary technique might alos be related to modern day >society's inability or unwillingness to believe in the unbelievable, unreal, >or seemingly impossible. Well for me, I have no trouble with magical solutions...It *is* fantasy after all. I just don't like the "quick fixes" that have nothing to do with the heroes' own cunning and ingenuity. This is why _Patchwork_, although still my favorite of the Canonical Oz Books, IMHO ends with a major cop-out. Speaking of which, how does everyone feel about starting the _Patchwork_ discussion in two weeks? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 6, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:00:39 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-97 BEAR: Me? Play with words? Make a dis-play of them? I've never been so complimented in all my life! ELECTRIC CARS IN CALIF.: Only 10 percent? It could--as our country could--do with a whole lot more. DAVE: You say, "Delphi, my Internet Provider just announced a semi-merge with Mindspring . . ." What is a semi-merge? I know what a semi is and I know what merging is, but--wait; on second thought, I think I'd rather not know . . . NOW, I shall proceed to read _Patchwork_ via Internet, as the library at college has no such tome. Or perhaps I shall do so tome-orrow . . . (That was weak, I know.) With that thought, goodbye. UNTIL NEXT TIME! --Jeremy Steadman P.S. I have received an urgent request from KIEX to allow her to join me at Berry. What do you think? ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:41:35 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Oz Matters X-Authentication-warning: mail1.geocities.com: wht2b6e05.resnet.iup.edu [144.80.104.94] didn't use HELO protocol On Carrollian Influence in Oz: Overall, I thought that Carroll's books contained more Carrollian qualities than did Baum's works. I agree with Robin that _Cowardly Lion_ was probably the most Carrollesque of the FF. King Theodore and Queen Adora definitely remind me of the King and Queen of Hearts. BTW, _Cowardly Lion_ was the first Thompson book that I read. When I read some of her other books, I was struck by the fact that the style used in _Cowardly Lion_ was different from the one that she used in her other Oz books. Regarding Coincidences: The coincidences used to bother me, but, when you think about it, it is very difficult to resolve problems without them, especially within a single fairly short book. True, the level of coincidence in the Oz books is much higher than that which we Outside Worlders experience, but problems rarely get sufficiently resolved in real life. Maybe Oz is secretly hooked up to an Improbability Drive... Oh, BTW, I'm back at college now. Nathan Mulac DeHoff vovat@geocities.com or lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:31:29 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04 & 05-97 9/4: Steve: Incredible coincidences are pretty common in popular fiction of that period (and maybe of any period). Some in Edgar Rice Burroughs' books are at least as improbable as Mary Louise's. Tin doesn't really rust; that's why it's used as a coating for cans. It's only a plating on the cans, though, and a soft one at that, so cans that had been handled a fair bit would rust. If Nick was pure tin he wouldn't have rusted either. But nickel plating would have the advantage of being much less easily scratched, which is probably why he chose it. The Glass Cat is "she" in _Patchwork Girl_, and I think once or twice in _Magic_, though most of the time in _Magic_ she's referred to as "it." Gordon: > >"[The wheelbarrow is] made of nabiscos with a zuzu wheel": Does anyone know >what a zuzu wheel was? And if "nabisco" was a common noun, what did it >mean? A generic square cracker? My parents always used "nabisco" as the name for what I think are technically called "Nabisco sugar wafers" - the kind of cookie where each side looks like a mini-waffle, with a very sugary filling in between. They'd certainly make up into a wheelbarrow fairly well. I'm not sure that Baum had the same usage in mind, but I thought I'd throw it in. The Whimsies, Growleywogs, and Phanfasms are characterized as Evil Spirits with no redeeming qualities, which I suppose is why it's never bothered me that they lost their memories. The Nomes, who seem to be mixed good and bad like most people, didn't drink from the Fountain. And, of course, no one was forced to drink, just encouraged. Bear: According to the immunization recommendations that I've seen, multiple immunizations with polio vaccines over a period of years are desirable. Of course, you can say that's just gummint propaganda and I can't prove different. Lisa: >Jeremy, as for the unrefined looking folk getting an unfair twist, I agree. >I was always so frustrated wiht my colleagues that walked around saying >things like, "look at the way he/she dresses, no wonder he/she is failing." >What, I ask, do a person's clothes have to do with his/her ability to take >notes off of the board? Nothing, but a lack of interest in how one dresses might be taken as a lack of interest in the opinions of others entirely. Which would tend to lead to the person's not putting in much work on a subject that wasn't of consuming interest to him. (Really slovenly students usually seem to be male in my experience, though I'm not a teacher and so am not an authority on the subject. I'm just going by what I see driving past schools.) Liz: >David Hulan: Sorry for messing up your name. No problem, and a lot of people call me "Dave" and I answer to it. I only bother to make my preference known with people I consider friends. Danny: Sounds like an interesting project for Arrow Comics. I'll have to check and see if the nearby comic store carries it. (Or Oz Comics, for that matter.)(A new and fairly large comic store is opening this week about 3-4 blocks from where I live, so for once it'll be convenient for me to check.) Nathan: >Anyone notice that the Ozites were apparently familiar with baseball in >_Emerald City_, but seemed to be unfamiliar with the sport in Thompson's >books? In _Road_ Shaggy's skill at catching the Scoodlers' heads and tossing them down the gulf is attributed to his having played a lot of baseball. >I actually thought that Thompson developed the character of the Cowardly >Lion a little more than Baum did (although, admittedly, Thompson's Lion >acts very much like most of the other large animals in her books). The >McGraws' Lion reminds me more of Thompson's Lion than of Baum's. Baum's lion talks a cowardly game, but generally acts bravely. Thompson's lion seems to be genuinely cowardly, especially with regard to thunderstorms - in both _Royal Book_ and _Cowardly Lion_ he panics and puts his companion(s) in danger during a storm. Dave: >DIANA: >I'm still in shock after hearing today that Princess Diana Spencer is now in >Oz. First Carl Sagan, now her! I'm just so devested and depressed! Well, >at least Ozma will protect her at long last from the "gutterpress" that >helped kill her. And now today we lose Mother Teresa as well. Not a good week for good-hearted women. With regard to Diana, though, my reaction on first reading the details was, "Why wasn't she wearing her seat belt? The one person in the car who was wearing his escaped with relatively minor injuries." 9/5: Bob S.: Being erotically interested in Ozma or Polychrome, who are either stated to be or drawn as teenagers, is legitimate enough. Being erotically interested in Trot or Betsy (or Dorothy) is weird and perverty. (Unless you're a pre-teen yourself, anyhow.) Now, if Trot grew up a bit... Jeremy: I think the Oz series suffered during the first eight or ten Thompson books (with a couple of exceptions), but I think her last few books (except _Ozoplaning_) are on average about as good as Baum's. Of course, in those books she'd largely gotten away from the formula, other than the dual plot lines - which Baum used heavily from EC on. I think the book you're thinking of is _Encounter with Tiber_, by "Buzz" Aldrin and John Barnes. (It doesn't meet most of your criteria, but it's a book about alien contact - sort of - with one co-author one of the first men on the moon.) I enjoyed it a lot; it tells you more than you probably want to know about the mechanics of space travel, but the alien-contact part is excellent. Barnes is one of my favorite current SF writers. Robin & Bear: I'd thought AF was earlier, but I no longer have a copy and defer to you. Anyhow, it was still less than 40 years after EC. Bear: >And, without going into it further, I continue to be amused at your view of >a "capitalist system." Where did you get this experience with one? I didn't have this experience [child labor instead of school] with one, because I was born after the beginning of the New Deal when, as you have often complained, true capitalism was hamstrung by government regulations. But I've read about what happened in Britain in the 1800s, and America in the late 1800s and early 1900s when capitalism was operating unfettered by the government. And children from 6 years old up were working 12 hours a day in factories for $1 a day or less. Do you seriously think that would have stopped without government regulation? Tyler: 6 billion. Right. My eyes have been going lately; maybe I saw the number upside down. Or maybe that was a projection for 2010 or something like that. Anyhow, a tripling of the world's population in 50 years is scary to me. I don't think the percentage of electric cars required in CA (as of 1999 or 2000 or whenever it starts) is as high as 10% - my recollection was that it was more like 2% or 5% - but I don't remember exactly. And I think the percentage does go up with time; it may be 10% by 2010 or so. Lisa: My favorite story about an author writing himself into a corner dealt with a prolific pulp author who ended an installment of a serial with his hero trapped in a 20-foot deep pit. Come time to write the next installment and he still hadn't figured out how to get him out, so he starts off, "With a tremendous leap..." Dave: So we're doing _Patchwork Girl_ next, and not _Sea Fairies_? Two weeks from now is fine for either of them as far as I'm concerned. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 20:45:05 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Jeremy - Well astronaut Buzz Aldrin and John Barnes wrote "Encounter With Tiber" recently. Farther back, in about 1992, astronaut Bill Pogue and Ben Bova wrote "The Trikon Deception." Doesn't sound like either of these. ??? >Bear, don't you think it's good that the government is helping protect us? Or would you prefer we all died from dangerous causes? Jeremy, this is what is known as a "false dichotomy" and I have agreed not to comment on these. I might modestly suggest, however, that you spend some time thinking about what are the proper functions of our government. You are going to spend a lot more time under it than I am. Tyler, I think Oz is full of chickens and you are worried about a few people in our world? >To picka nit, the current world population is near 6 billion, and is currently increasing at about 100 million a year. Even my right-wing conservative self thinks this is far too much. Step right up and be the first on your block to have a vasectomy. Don't we need to set a good example for the world? No question this is a problem; do you have a solution? Bompi - Some authors write a book from a detailed outline (probably ex-engineers) while others start with an idea and just follow it to see where it takes them. This latter approach could get them into a corner. The reason I know this is from reading a lot of authors talking about their craft in Locus. David - I tried to be helpful in re the BCF. Guess he doesn't read our posts. Cryptically, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:08:53 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-97 Robin, > ENDER'S GAME: It *is* a good book, isn't it! Who's "Bil"? (Gee, I hate > displaying my ignorance in public, but I just don't "get" it.) --R. > Perhaps my message was garbled, or I was unclear. The book in question was Harry Harrison's "Bil, The Galactic Hero". It kept coming to mind as I read "Ender's Game". Dave Hardenbrook, Two weeks for a start of the _Patchwork_ discussion sounds good to me. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 23:19:11 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest X-Authentication-warning: mail4.geocities.com: wht2b6e05.resnet.iup.edu [144.80.104.94] didn't use HELO protocol Dave L. Hardenbrook wrote: > > Hi! > At 02:28 PM 9/5/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Did you get my message about having the Ozzy Digest to > >lnvf@grove.iup.edu? I haven't received a Digest for several days. > > Sorry, I forgot to update it...Can you tell again what your old address > was? Also, let me know which ones you're missing and I'll send them > to you... > My old address was haldehoff@aol.com. I have the Digests for 27 and 31 August, as well as the one for 5 September. My father forwarded those first two, and the last arrived at my school account today. I guess I need the ones that come in between those. Nathan Mualc DeHoff vovat@geocities.com or lnvf@grove.iup.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 21:07:33 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: for Ozzy Digest Dave: Patchwork discussion is fine. However, I think David wanted to discuss THE SEA FAIRIES. Whatever you folks want is fine with me. All: Why is it that Baum often disregarded the endings of his book? What I mean by this...is ********SPOILER----VARIOUS-ENDINGS DISCUSSED ************************** Ruggedo loses his memory at the end of EC, but regains it somehow for the start of Tik-Tok. At the end of Tik-Tok, he reforms, but then is evil once again somehow at the start of MAGIC. Eureka is banished at the end of Dorothy/Wizard in Oz, but somehow is back in Oz for later books (and is pink too as somebody here pointed out) The Glass Cat's entire personality is supposed to have changed at the end of Patchwork Girl, yet there she is, back to her old personality in MAGIC. Is it that he thought he wouldn't write about these characters again and so provided a nice ending for them? I'm curious about this. take care all! Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 97 02:35:16 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things I just want to apologize to David Hulan for missing his post about our having _The Sea Fairies_ as the next BCF. I've had hectic week and I've been kind of skimming over the Digests. I even missed seeing his and others' posts about my deserving the Baum Award ( Thanks guys; I'm blushing! :) )...And we did agree that we would do the two Trot books as BCFs, so I humbly apologize on two counts. So (and this is official), the next BCF will be _The Sea Fairies_, starting two weeks from Monday. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 7 - 8, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 06:46:21 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-97 Hi! About that silly X-Authentication-warning that has been preceding several of our posts, any ideas what it means? As I'm sure most if not all of know, Nabisco stands for National Biscuit Company. I was under the impression that Nabisco's were cookies resembling Oreos. > On Carrollian Influence in Oz: > Overall, I thought that Carroll's books contained more Carrollian > qualities than did Baum's works. Huh? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 10:39:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-97 Hi Dave, Here's catalog information on the first edition of _Animal Farm_. 1. Author: Orwell, George, 1903-1950. Title: Animal farm; a fairy story, by George Orwell. London; Secker & Warburg, 1945. Description: 91 p. 19 cm. Notes: Satire on dictatorship. "First published May 1945." Call numbers: UCR Rivera PR6029.R84 A75 1945 Spec Coll UCSB Main Lib PR6029.R8 A63 1945 Special Coll UCR=University of California, Riverside UCSB=University of California, Santa Barbara I believe the first American edition, 1946, was published by Harcourt, Brace. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 14:21:13 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-97 TYLER: <> I should hope so! RE: COINCIDENCES: Funny you should mention that just as I was thinking about them . . . _ENCOUNTER WITH TIBER_? No, this is not the book I'm thinking of. When I go home in mid-October (or earlier) I'll take a look at my shelves (if I remember), but until then I simply don't know. But I am still convinced it was a one-word title . . . "ENDINGS GAMES": I don't think it's so much that Baum disregarded the endings of his books as he wanted to do more with the characters as originally introduced. (I too dislike the cartoonish snappings-back into place, but that's what he did. Perhaps there is a Magic Giant Invisible Rubber Band that handles such matters in Oz . . .) Ending gamely. Jeremy Steadman P.S. I noticed that my post yesterday had a small addition at the end that I distinctly remember NOT being there when I sent it. Which tells me a lot about the safety of the Internet . . . --JMS ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 11:39:43 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Ozzy Digest stuff Caliber and Arrow Comics-- In regards to someone's questions (sorry, I "snipped" you and don't want to scroll thru the Digest!) Caliber's OZ series can be found in back issue bins and current comic racks at specialty stores. They have a very small print run (compared to, say, Batman or Spider-Man) so you may need to ask the retailer if they even order it. Arrow Comics will split off from Caliber in Novemeber, and the new OZ series (first Dark Oz and then The Land of OZ) will be from them. Again-- small print runs, so ask your retailer. A Back Issues catalogue from Caliber can be found by writing Caliber Comics at 225 N. Sheldon Road, Plymouth, MI 48170. There is also a toll free number 1 - 888 - 22 - COMIC, but I don't know if that's for orders directly or what. I think Books of Wonder was also offering the Trade Paperback collections of the first 15 or so comics in several volumes. Arrow Comics has a web site at http://www.arrowcomics.com Thanks for your interest and support-- I know some have a problem with the, uh, liberties the OZ artists have taken! FWIW, my Wonderland designs keep the animals looking fairly more animalistic (although they are still vaguely humanoid) and Alice will be dressing Dorothy in a bit more appropriate clothing than the near-pure-fantasy costume she had been wearing for a while. Back to your regularly scheduled Digest. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 15:37:32 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-97 Jeremy: >ELECTRIC CARS IN CALIF.: >Only 10 percent? It could--as our country could--do with a whole lot >more. Not until they come up with more efficient batteries. Electric cars would probably be useful for short commutes and otherwise running around town for short distances, but they wouldn't be satisfactory as the only car for almost any household. Much more effective would be raising the gasoline tax to European levels to discourage people from buying gas-guzzling SUVs and light trucks unless they really need them, and not just to make a macho statement. (It would also make driving a lot easier for those of us who prefer a normal sedan and would like to be able to see down the road. Or see whether there's anything coming when backing out of a parking space.) >P.S. I have received an urgent request from KIEX to allow her to >join me at Berry. What do you think? I'd leave her at home if I were you, but it's your decision... Nathan: I agree that _Cowardly Lion_ has a considerably different style from the one Thompson used in the rest of her books - and a jolly good thing, too! I don't think Baum's Oz books overdo coincidence all that much - some, but not that much more than the average. Most of them could be put down to the workings of magic, even if there wasn't any direct voluntary exercise of magic involved. (E.g. the Nome King's tunnel ending up right in front of the Forbidden Fountain - maybe by Glinda's actions?) Bear: >Bompi - Some authors write a book from a detailed outline (probably >ex-engineers) while others start with an idea and just follow it to see >where it takes them. This latter approach could get them into a corner. >The reason I know this is from reading a lot of authors talking about their >craft in Locus. I dunno - I'm an ex-engineer, and I've never written a book from a detailed outline. I usually have a beginning and an ending and a set of characters in mind, and maybe a few incidents that I want to happen along the way, and the rest pretty much develops as I write. Of course, I've only sold one book so far... Douglas: ********SPOILER----VARIOUS-ENDINGS DISCUSSED ************************** Those you mention aren't the only cases where Baum seems to forget his endings. We've already talked about how Ozma's checking on Dorothy every Saturday afternoon at the end of _Ozma_ changed to every day at four o'clock in _DotWiz_. And Oz is supposed to be invisible from the outside after EC, but Trot and Cap'n Bill and Button-Bright don't seem to have any problems coming in in _Scarecrow_, Dorothy and the Wizard go out via Magic Carpet and come back with Inga and company the same way in _Rinkitink_, and Kiki Aru leaves and comes back with Ruggedo in _Magic_. There are probably others that don't come to mind offhand. My theory is that Baum was prescient and did it on purpose so that future writers could enjoy writing new stories to explain these apparent discrepancies. :-) I have unpublished books explaining two of yours - the one about Eureka and the one about the Glass Cat. Dave: No apology needed; I know you're busy and often don't have time to read every word of every Digest. But I did want to know if I needed to start rereading _Sea Fairies_, since I don't have its story as nearly memorized as I do those of the FF. I expect others need to do the same. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 17:06:12 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Jeremy - Is that Dave Barry U. that you are attending? I think I get it. Gasoline = Bad, Electricity = Good. The gasoline comes out of the ground, where does the electricity come from? David - Now that you mention it we did get a series, we think there were three. Remember sugar cubes? However, it sounded like Bob got the same series multiple times. Great - I've been wanting to read "Sea Fairies" and now I have a reason. We can read the only PG book in the FF later. :) David, is this the book you think is Baum's best or was it "Sky Island?" Weekend regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 16:25:11 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-97 > From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff > BTW, > _Cowardly Lion_ was the first Thompson book that I read. When I read > some of her other books, I was struck by the fact that the style used in > _Cowardly Lion_ was different from the one that she used in her other > Oz books. BTW: COWARDLY LION was the *last* Thompson book that I read for the first time; it is also my absolutely least favorite Thompson book. The two facts may be related. > > From: David Hulan > 9/4: > Steve: > Incredible coincidences are pretty common in popular fiction of that period > (and maybe of any period). Some in Edgar Rice Burroughs' books are at least > as improbable as Mary Louise's. So much the worse for popular fiction! > > The Glass Cat is "she" in _Patchwork Girl_, and I think once or twice in > _Magic_, though most of the time in _Magic_ she's referred to as "it." > And in THE GLASS CAT OF OZ . . . ? > Gordon: > > > >"[The wheelbarrow is] made of nabiscos with a zuzu wheel": Does anyone know > >what a zuzu wheel was? And if "nabisco" was a common noun, what did it > >mean? A generic square cracker? > I always thought a Zuzu was a type of ginger snap, but I have no evidence to susport this. The only Zuzu I can trace is in "It's a Wonderful Life" who is noted for having petals fall off her flower. > ********SPOILER----VARIOUS-ENDINGS DISCUSSED ************************** > > Ruggedo loses his memory at the end of EC, but regains it somehow > for the start of Tik-Tok. At the end of Tik-Tok, he reforms, but then is > evil once again somehow at the start of MAGIC. > In the Nome Kingdom there are lots of wicked nomes to remind him of his past self. > Eureka is banished at the end of Dorothy/Wizard in Oz, but somehow is > back in Oz for later books (and is pink too as somebody here pointed > out) See THE CARELESS KANGAROO OF OZ by March Laumer and THE COLORFUL KITTEN OF OZ by Chris Dulabone > > The Glass Cat's entire personality is supposed to have changed at the > end of Patchwork Girl, yet there she is, back to her old personality > in MAGIC. > Noone really likes a modest cat! > > Douglas Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 14:56:43 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Ozzie Digest Howdy, Please don't take this as an objection, but I am curious about the reason for taking _Yew_ and _Sea Fairies_ next (or vice versa) next in order. Will that become apparent as we discuss them? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 18:21:24 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-97 So what is impossible about "Sir Gyle"? That's what I didn't get. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 19:14:59 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Oz Stuff X-Authentication-warning: mail3.geocities.com: wht2b6e05.resnet.iup.edu [144.80.104.94] didn't use HELO protocol David Hulan: It has been suggested that Nick Chopper's joints are made of iron. This could be why they can rust. Douglas: Baum may have originally intended not to use Bungle after _Patchwork Girl_, and not to use the Nome King after _Emerald City_ or _Tik-Tok_. The loose ends that Baum left make excellent opportunities for more recent hoztorians, however. I wrote "Ruggedo and the School of Magic" and "Alliance of the Elementals," which were attempts to tie up some of the loose ends in the saga of the Nome King. As for the Glass Cat, _Bungle and the Magic Lantern of Oz_ explains that Bungle was given back her pink brains after she attempted to drown herself in a bowl of lima beans. Nathan Mulac DeHoff vovat@geocities.com or lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 18:33:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-97 Does anyone know about a 1956 film of _Wizard of Oz_. I tried to order this from Reel, but I got my letter and a check telling me it was out of print and unavailable, and removed from their catalog. I didn't know it existed until then, and have no clue what it could be... and they wouldn't tell me. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 18:43:11 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 Marvel Comics do have characters age, but since a story encompassing a few hours is told across several issues it can slow things down. Spider-Man was 16 when his comicbook started, but is now in his thirties with a wife and child. Granted, he should be older, and the fact that he has one title a week makes it easier to tell the stories (though each is by an artist with a radically different style, especially back in the late eighties when Todd McFarlane did _The Amazing Spider-Man_, and then created his own title, _Spider-Man_. DC characters also age, Dick Grayson is in his twenties and called Nightwing. But I haven't had time to read these for many years, so things may have changes further. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 22:38:16 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 Tyler Jones: >Does Glinda really NEED to be a fairy?< No. I tend to think she was not born or created a fairy--which would explain why she does not work magic like one. As one post said, Baum may have been playing with the idea, as he first did with Ozma, of making Glinda a Fairy with a capital F, also. But, except for the Wizard's statement, Baum never came directly out with it. One does wonder what he would have done with Glinda had he lived to author a few more Oz books. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 22:35:43 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 David: >This assumes a couple of facts that are not in evidence - that a fairy can turn bad (no evidence of it in Baum, though Faleero seems to be a case from Thompson), and that this fairyhood is transferrable to a mortal. I can't prove it's impossible, but one would think that it wouldn't be necessary to go through the elaborate business of the Cloak of Immortality for Santa Claus if there were other ways of bestowing immortality.< The Cloak of Immortality could still be very important if it is very rare for a fairy to turn bad. It is possible that such a thing had never happened before at the time of "Life and Adventures," but did happen later. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:32:34 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Before I get to things Ozzy, I have an announcement to make: Megan Jade Mock Noble was born Thursday, September 4, 1997 at 11:34 a.m.. She was 7 pounds, 5 ounces and 19 inches long. Megan and her mother, Terry, are doing well and healthy. I brought them home from the hospital yesterday (Saturday). We are thrilled and very proud of our little princess. It will be a while before she's ready to have the Oz books read to her, but her father is very excited by the prospect. In the meantime, I am still trying to figure out a way to add an Ozzy touch to the nursery decorations. Emerald City: I have finished rereading it (Fortunately before Megan was born -- otherwise I wouldn't have had time!) I know that some people have criticized this book for its extraneous episodes (or whatever the official term is), but more than 20 years after my first reading of it, it is still a favorite. The dual plots are wonderful, the villains ingenious, the odd Oz denizens appropriate considering that this was a tour after all. Most importantly, (as someone else also noted), this fulfills an important loose end -- Dorothy, Aunt Em and Uncle Henry finally come to Oz for good. What more could we ask for? These first six books are the ones I have reread the most. The others will be more of an adventure. Let's keep up the good reading! -- Craig P.S. - Anyone receive Fred Meyer's summary of the survey results? What do you think? ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:31:05 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Dave: Starting _Patchwork Girl_ at that time is fine with me. David: I've heard about the 12 to 16 hour days at a very low wage. No rights either. If you were injured, you were shown the door. IMHO, it would not have changed without government regulation or a shift in public attitude, which is nearly the same thing. Bear: No solution to population (I'm not even going to mention Jonathan Swift, except to mention that I'm not mentioning him). To make matters worse, I would like several children of my own someday. Let it be said that most of this increase is in third world countries, while affluent countries face declining birthrates with increased prosperity. Maybe the solution is capitalism? (no, that can't be right) Doug: Hmm, lots of interesting questions. I'll jump in. Ruggedo (at least in the FF) has been dunked in the fountain three times. Twice in Baum and once in Thompson. We on the digest have theorized that Ruggedo, being a fairy creature and not fully human, may have a partial immunity to the water. That is, it works, but then wears off after a few years. We've been discussing Eureka's transplantation on the digest very recently. The two leading theories are (A) That Eureka sneaked along anonymously in _Road_ or that she was brought to Oz later, in a manner similar to March Laumers book. I can't explain the color change, (Dorothy once called her a "purple" kitten, but that may have been a typo). However, I won't go as far as to suggest the March Laumer solution. The Glass Cat's pink brains also are back in _Magic_. Maybe the Wizard put them back for reasons we have yet to learn. Baum may or may not have wrote more about the two cats had he lived longer. He probably would not have, though. Apart from the adventure in _Magic_, Baum seemed to have almost forgotten the feline's existence. Thankfully, we have Chris Dulabone and David Hulan (and others), who write and publish stories about characters such as these. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 22:52:40 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: for Ozzy Digest All: Hi. I just purchased Oz-Story Magazine No. 1 from a local comic shop. It was published in 1995 and is edited by David Maxine and Eric Shanower. Does anyone know if a No. 2 or No. 3 has been published? Doug ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:47:43 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest There's been an interesting discussion on the rec.arts.books.childrens newsgroup about food in children's books. Many people, including myself, have always wanted to try the Turkish Delight mentioned in the Chronicles of Narnia. What about food in Oz? Anything you've always been intrigued by? It doesn't seem to me that food in Oz has been outstanding. A journey staple (at least in the early books) seems to be bread and cheese -- good and wholesome, but not at all unusual. There are, of course, the breadstuffs in Bunbury, the popcorn, lemonade and other treats outside of Oz, the Shaggy Man's apples (also outside Oz), and some edible realms in the Neil books. I'm sure Thompson's Oz has lots of sweets in it (though I don't remember them), but Baum's Oz (I'm not talking about his non-Oz fantasies, such as _John Dough_ and _Dot and Tot_) doesn't seem to have much in the way of exotic foodstuffs. Am I overlooking something? -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:25:43 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Gordon Birrell: It's hard to see any allusion to "Bunbury" in Wilde's sense, but considering Baum's interest in theater, you'd think he must have known about it. I recall a reference in one of the "Bugles" explaining the reference to Saratoga chips as an early brand name of potato chips. From that example, I assume that nabisco referred to the Nabisco company rather than to a common noun (Nabisco is the offshoot of the National Biscuit Company, isn't it?), and suspect that "zuzu" was also a brand name. (I didn't find it in the "Webster's Unabridged," anyhow.) Steve Teller: I think what Baum misses in his portrayal of cats is how affectionate they are. (People who don't like them think they aren't, because they don't come when called. They do, however, answer to let you know where they are.) Or maybe that applies only to Eureka. Perhaps with Bungle it could be argued that being made of glass she doesn't get any tactile pleasure out of stropping up against humans or being petted by them, and she doesn't need food, so she hasn't had the opportunity to learn much about affection. (I published a poem partly about this, although also about other glass fairy tale objects, "The Glass Cat," in a small-press sfzine, "Beyond," a few years back.) Robin Olderman & Nathan DeHoff: I, too, have the feeling that RPT was more Carrollian than Baum. It's hard to pin down, though. When I try to point to the similarities, I start seeing the differences, instead. She does have a lot of references to Carroll scattered through her work, including the quotation from "You are Old, Father William," at the end of "Royal Book." (And going down the benapole hole has some resemblances to going down the rabbithole.) Lisa Bompiani & David Hulan: J.M. Barrie, in "Tommie and Grizel," included a character who was a popular, but perpetually broke author, who sometimes would force earlier payment out of his publishers by ending a serial chapter with a cliffhanger and the words, "The end, unless you pay me now." Various on over-population: There probably is an easy solution to over- population. Making birth control and abortion available free and on demand would probably take care of it cheaply (or, as some like to say, in a cost-effective manner) without requiring anyone to take advantage of either. Religious objections to abortion and even birth control, however, so far make this solution unavailable. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 97 11:59:14 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things WEIRD LINES: Jeremy wrote: >I noticed that my post yesterday had a small addition at the >end that I distinctly remember NOT being there when I sent it. Which >tells me a lot about the safety of the Internet Can you tell me what you saw there? Your posts look normal at this end. POLLUTION AND ELECTRIC CARS: Of course the biggest problem is getting all the 20-year-old gas-guzzling clunkers off the road. Electric cars as the majority of cars on the road may not be practical yet, but I bet they will be in just a few years. (And before long they'll be solar-powered too!) NEW BABY: Congratulations to you Craig! RUGGEDO: Tyler wrote: >We on the digest have theorized that Ruggedo, being a fairy creature and >not fully human, may have a partial immunity to the water. That is, it >works, but then wears off after a few years. I stick to my theory that Ruggedo aquired his immunity to the water from his powerful accomplice in _Locasta_... WONDERLAND: If there's anything that I think is Carrollian in the Oz books it's the "Terrible Tumble Through A Tube" in _Tik-Tok of Oz_. AOL STIKES AGAIN!: Two people on AOL have E-mailed privately to say that they haven't been receiving the Digest in the last few days...Anyone else having problems?? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 9, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 16:30:47 -0400 (EDT) From: ZMaund@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Post request Cc: phanff@library.berkeley.edu Dave: Hello! I am hoping you can post this for me to the Digest: ========================================================= I am working on the next Bibliographia Baumiana article for publication in The Baum Bugle. (hell of an alliterative sentence...) I would appreciate knowing if any Digest members own or have access to any copy of The Enchanted Island of Yew in a dust jacket. Please e-mail me privately (at ZMaund@AOL.com) rather than posting on the Digest. I am grateful for your help, and you will also be thanked in print (if you like) when the article is published. Patrick M. Maund ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:40:15 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-08-97 Bob S.: > As I'm sure most if not all of know, Nabisco stands for National >Biscuit Company. I was under the impression that Nabisco's were cookies >resembling Oreos. See my comment last Digest as to what my parents called "nabiscos". I suspect that was Baum's meaning for the term as well. Bear: >I think I get it. Gasoline = Bad, Electricity = Good. The gasoline comes >out of the ground, where does the electricity come from? In Southern California, at least, electricity comes from burning natural gas in a rather efficient manner, meaning there are few if any hydrocarbons released into the atmosphere to turn into smog, and little carbon monoxide. Burning gasoline, on the other hand, is inefficient combustion that puts lots of hydrocarbons (and nitrogen compounds) into the air (though not nearly as much with the catalytic converters and EGR valves that have been required since around 1970), which contributes mightily to smog. The electric-car requirement was intended to address that problem, not global warming. (Admittedly, burning natural gas puts about the same amount of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere as burning gasoline to produce equivalent work (in the physics sense).) >Great - I've been wanting to read "Sea Fairies" and now I have a reason. >We can read the only PG book in the FF later. :) David, is this the book >you think is Baum's best or was it "Sky Island?" _Sky Island_ is the book I think is Baum's best. _Sea Fairies_ I put at about the same level as _Emerald City_, for much the same reason - too much of it is a fairly boring tour (though with some good bits), but there's a terrific section in it that, like the Nome King's invasion in EC, elevates it well above, say, _Road_ or _DotWiz_. Steve: IIRC, _Cowardly Lion_ was the only Thompson book that didn't make anyone's list of three favorite Thompsons back when we had a poll on the subject a year or so ago. (I know it didn't make anyone's list; I'm less sure that it was the only one.) I believe _DotWiz_ was the one Baum that didn't make anyone's top three. >> The Glass Cat is "she" in _Patchwork Girl_, and I think once or twice in >> _Magic_, though most of the time in _Magic_ she's referred to as "it." >> >And in THE GLASS CAT OF OZ . . . ? In _The Glass Cat of Oz_ Bungle is always "she" except for one typo that I didn't catch, and neither did anyone at BoW, where she's "he." One of my countless loyal fans caught it and pointed it out to me, though. (It was either Gili or Kim Doyle, I don't remember which.) Bob S. again: > Please don't take this as an objection, but I am curious about the >reason for taking _Yew_ and _Sea Fairies_ next (or vice versa) next in >order. Will that become apparent as we discuss them? It's _Sky Island_, not _Yew_. The reason for including these two non-Oz books (though not the other books peripherally connected with Oz, like _Zixi_, _John Dough_, _MMMo_, _Santa Claus_, etc., is that these books introduce two characters who are continuing important characters in Oz (Trot and Cap'n Bill), and give a lot of information about them and about Button-Bright that isn't found in the FF proper. (For instance, the real names of all three characters.) Baum's other fantasies are tied to Oz only by brief encounters at the birthday party in _Road_, plus the Wise Donkey of Mo in PG and the short interlude in Mo in _Scarecrow_, neither of which depends to any extent on the information given in _MMMo_. Back when we decided to adopt the BCF discussions we discussed the matter at some length and decided to include the two "Trot" books as BCFs as if they were Oz books. The fact that they're readily available through BoW or at Borders means that nobody who's interested should have a problem getting hold of them. Scott H.: "Sir Gyle" isn't impossible, since it was done, but it's incorrect usage. "Sir" is attached to the first name, not the last; it's "Sir Wylie Gyle" or "Sir Wylie," but never "Sir Gyle". (If he were married his wife would be "Lady Gyle", however.) Nathan: >David Hulan: >It has been suggested that Nick Chopper's joints are made of iron. This >could be why they can rust. Possible, but I seem to recall a bit in _Wizard_ where a tear ran down the Tin Woodman's cheek and rusted his mouth shut. I don't remember any drawing of the TW where his jaw joint was far enough forward to be under an eye; certainly not Denslow or Neill. Craig: >Megan Jade Mock Noble was born Thursday, September 4, 1997 at 11:34 a.m.. > She was 7 pounds, 5 ounces and 19 inches long. Megan and her mother, Terry, >are doing well and healthy. I brought them home from the hospital yesterday >(Saturday). We are thrilled and very proud of our little princess. It will >be a while before she's ready to have the Oz books read to her, but her >father is very excited by the prospect. In the meantime, I am still trying >to figure out a way to add an Ozzy touch to the nursery decorations. **Congratulations!!!** And may she sleep through the night very soon. ;-) >Anyone receive Fred Meyer's summary of the survey results? What do >you think? What survey? I haven't gotten any that I can think of. Tyler: >David: >I've heard about the 12 to 16 hour days at a very low wage. No rights >either. If you were injured, you were shown the door. IMHO, it would not >have changed without government regulation or a shift in public attitude, >which is nearly the same thing. In a democracy it's very nearly the same thing, although the shift in public attitudes - and attempts at government regulation based on that - foundered on Supreme Court interpretations of the Constitution as forbidding such regulations for about three decades. Capitalism with democracy is the most promising solution to the population explosion. Most of the third world countries with rapidly growing populations are about as capitalistic as most of the developed countries of Europe, but they lack democracy and as a result the great mass of the population isn't benefiting much from capitalism. >I can't explain the color change, (Dorothy once called her a "purple" >kitten, but that may have been a typo). However, I won't go as far as to >suggest the March Laumer solution. As I think I've pointed out before, Dorothy never says Eureka is a purple kitten; she just refers to "my purple kitten". While this kitten never appears elsewhere in the Oz books, there's no particular reason why Dorothy couldn't have two kittens, Eureka and a purple one. Lots of people have two or more cats. This is more likely because she also refers to her pink kitten in the same book. Douglas: >All: Hi. I just purchased Oz-Story Magazine No. 1 from a local >comic shop. It was published in 1995 and is edited by David Maxine >and Eric Shanower. > Does anyone know if a No. 2 or No. 3 has been published? Yes. I believe you can get all three from Books of Wonder, or probably directly from Hungry Tiger Press (whose address you should be able to find in OSM #1). Craig again: >There's been an interesting discussion on the rec.arts.books.childrens >newsgroup about food in children's books. Many people, including myself, >have always wanted to try the Turkish Delight mentioned in the Chronicles of >Narnia. I've tried it, though I didn't like it very much. Too sticky sweet. It is, incidentally, if you're familiar with the musical _Kismet_, the same thing as Rahat-Lokoum. (Think of giant cube-shaped gumdrops, only with powdered instead of granulated sugar on the outside, and you're not far off.) Food in Oz? There are the lunch-box and dinner-pail trees in Ev, and the hotel trees in the Nome King's cavern. The Traveler's Tree in _Cowardly Lion_ seems to be based on those. As for sweets, there's the Candy Giant in _Royal Book_. Those are about the only exotic foods I can think of in the Oz books (though the ones in Bunbury should probably count). Otherwise, though they eat, their foodstuffs seem to be pretty much what early 20th century Americans might eat. There is the nectar called "lacasa" mentioned in _Road_, though I don't recall any other occasion where it's drunk. Ruth: >Gordon Birrell: It's hard to see any allusion to "Bunbury" in Wilde's sense, >but considering Baum's interest in theater, you'd think he must have >known about it. I think it very likely that Baum was familiar with _Earnest_ and found the name "Bunbury" amusing, so he decided to write about a _real_ place called "Bunbury". This is something that Thompson did a lot more than Baum (e.g. Dicksy Land, Fix City, etc.), but in at least this one case Baum did it too. Dave >POLLUTION AND ELECTRIC CARS: >Of course the biggest problem is getting all the 20-year-old gas-guzzling >clunkers off the road. And all the new gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles that never go off-road. >Electric cars as the majority of cars on the road may not be practical >yet, but I bet they will be in just a few years. (And before long they'll >be solar-powered too!) Doubtful. Not if you mean the car carries its own solar panels, anyhow. I haven't run the calculations, but I don't think enough solar energy falls on the area of a car where you could put solar panels to power it for a normal driving pattern. >AOL STIKES AGAIN!: >Two people on AOL have E-mailed privately to say that they haven't been >receiving the Digest in the last few days...Anyone else having problems?? Of course, if people on AOL aren't getting the Digest they're not seeing your question. I'm forwarding my Digest to Joyce Odell as I get it, and will until she lets me know that she's getting it directly again. I think the problem is that AOL's attempts to block spam often also block long messages that are BCCs, which of course includes the Digest. It's why I got a new ISP a few months ago. You might query the AOL people individually to see if anyone is having a problem. I notice Craig is the only AOLer who's posted the last couple of days, and his posts haven't been in response to anything in the Digests since 9/1. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:23:24 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: For Ozzy Digest RE: BOOK ENDING DISCREPANCIES David said: > My theory is that Baum was prescient and did it on purpose so that future > writers could enjoy writing new stories to explain these apparent > discrepancies. :-) I have unpublished books explaining two of yours - the > one about Eureka and the one about the Glass Cat. as I do those of the FF. I expect others need to do the same. Nathan said: > Baum may have originally intended not to use Bungle after _Patchwork > Girl_, and not to use the Nome King after _Emerald City_ or _Tik-Tok_. > The loose ends that Baum left make excellent opportunities for more > recent hoztorians, however. I wrote "Ruggedo and the School of Magic" > and "Alliance of the Elementals," which were attempts to tie up some of > the loose ends in the saga of the Nome King. As for the Glass Cat, > _Bungle and the Magic Lantern of Oz_ explains that Bungle was given back > her pink brains after she attempted to drown herself in a bowl of lima > beans. Tyler said: > Thankfully, we have Chris Dulabone and David Hulan (and others), who write > and publish stories about characters such [as Eureka and the Glass Cat]. Nathan: I agree that Baum probably thought he wasn't going to write about these characters again. Once he returned to a previous character, he would have to go through an elaborate process of explaining how the character regained his or her former personality. So...he just didn't do it!! :-) Tyler and David: Baum's not explaining the character shifts IS a wonderful opportunity for others to fill in the gaps. I have to keep on getting more books!!!! :-) I need to be filled in. Question to all: Ozana, Ozma's cousin from THE MAGICAL MIMICS.... does she appear again in any non FF stories? Also, is her character still under copyright? Talking about DISCREPANCIES, it seems to me that Ozana's absence in, say, Shanower's graphic novels and later FF novels...it just seems odd. Snow should have left Ozana on the mountain! :-) Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 20:25:26 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Bad Magic (Just starting to work through my post-vacation backlog) In the 28-29 Digest, David G. Hulan says, We may be misinterpreting what Glinda (in that movie) meant. Perhaps a bad magic worker is ugly because he/she cannot work the spells to look better (e.g., the magic is bad or inferior.) Or perhaps, the bad person as magic worker *wants* to look bad to inspire fear. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 20:34:33 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-08-97 DAVID HULAN: I have no earthly idea where that sentence that everyone says I said about bringing Kiex up to college came from! As I said yesterday, so much for the safety of the Internet! <> (I shall treat that sentence as a serious question.) No; there is a Barry (with an `a') University in South Carolina (as I recall); I attend Berry (with an `e') College (not University) in Rome, Georgia. (And I here, I really am learning about getting along with people who have diametrically opposite views on various subjects, though it may not be reflected in my posts.) FUEL-ING MORE DEBATE: Granted, electric cars of today are fueled with gasoline and such that comes out of the ground and depletes our resources. What about hydrolysis-powered cars with harmless by-products and powered by water as close as the nearest drinking fountain? (I'm no expert on this, but it sounds good to me.) BEAR: "Weekend regards"? Sorry to hear that; I can sympathize, as my eyesight is rapidly deteriorating too . . . CRAIG: Congratuations! RUTH B.: Thank you for sticking up for cats. (Felicity would be proud if I were home to tell her.) "THE END, UNLESS YOU PAY ME NOW": A clever idea . . . maybe I'll try it sometime . . . DAVE: As I recall, there was some allusion to the possibility that Kiex might enter and disrupt the Digest, and that I might facilitate this if asked. I have no memory of writing any such thing, but I saw it at the end of my post the following day, and David Hulan even mentioned it. SOLAR-POWERED CARS: The best solution offered on these e-pages yet! (WIth a rechargable battery for cloudy days.) DAVE, RE AOL: Luckily, I'm _off_ AOL right now (whew!). I didn't recieve a Digest yesterday, but I assumed you had taken a well-deserved day off. Tell me if a little note is added on to the end of my post again, please, as I think I should know. --Jeremy Steadman, "Without Kiex and Proud of It" KIEX: I think he's on to me. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 20:27:25 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest X-Authentication-warning: mail2.geocities.com: wht2b6e05.resnet.iup.edu [144.80.104.94] didn't use HELO protocol Bob Spark and Jeremy: Oops! I meant that THOMPSON showed more Carrollian influence in her books than did Baum, although I guess Carroll probably influenced himself. Doug Silfen: There are three issues of Oz-Story currently available. I bought all three at Conventions. You can order them directly from Hungry Tiger Press, and I think you might be able to get them through Books of Wonder. Sorry, but I don't know the addresses off the top of my head. Craig: What is Turkish Delight, anyway? Regarding Unusual Food in Oz: Well, there's that nectar called lacasa, which supposedly tastes better than lemonade or soda. Then, of course, there's the fact that much of the food in Oz grows on trees. Ruth: "Nabisco" probably did come from the brand name, even though Baum used a lower-case "n." Also, in _Gnome King_, Thompson referred to "ivory soap." She was most likely referring to the brand name, since I've never heard of soap actually being made from ivory (even though Shampoozle did say that his subjects could make soap out of anything). BTW, did anyone else notice that Dorothy visited the Parker H. Rolls (as in the Parker HOUSE Rolls)? I think Saratoga chips might still be around, but I'm not sure who makes them. I'm pretty sure it isn't Ruggedo, especially since he doesn't have his magical powers anymore. BTW, Ruggedo threatens to turn someone into a potato on three separate occasions (Kaliko in _Tik-Tok_, Peter in _Gnome King_, and someone, possibly the pirates, in _Pirates_). Of course, potatoes grow underground, so they might have been one of Rug's favorite foods. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff vovat@geocities.com or lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "I'm having a wonderful time, but I'd rather be whistling in the dark." ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 21:58:25 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Bear: (and others) One day, we will have cold fusion and all our problems will be sovled, except for how to get rid of the current pollution. Bob: The reason we are considering inserting _Yew_ and _Sea Fairies_ (and soon _Sky Island_) is that this is the point in time when Baum wrote these books and these stories are generally considered to have taken place in the Oz Universe. Of course, we seem to have skipped _Queen Zixi of Ix (my personal favorite) and _John Dough and the Cherub_, but one can't have everything. Scott: There are some details about Sir Gyle as regards Sir Hokus that contradict certain events in _The Yellow Knight of Oz_. Melody: Well, with Glinda's major role in _Glinda_, he may have been planning to do a lot more with her, which would befit the most powerful worker of magic in the Multiverse. If only Baum had hung around a while. As Billy Joel said "only the good die young". Craig: Congrats on your new addition! When I read _Emerald City_ for the first time so many years ago, I did not know that Baum was trying to end the series. I assumed that he brought Uncle Henry and Aunt Em (and Dorothy, on a permanent basis) to Oz because he was tired of creating new ways to get Dorothy there. In other words, I thought, he can just start the adventure in Oz and not have to worry about the transit system. Doug: Oz Story magazine 2 is out, but I can't remember where to order it. Craig and the Ozzy gourmet: ("Please sir, I want some more") I can think of some offhand, such as Ozade and Lacasa, but that's about it. Dave: I await your book to find out how Rug REALLY beat the water of oblivion :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 21:42:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-08-97 X-Authentication-warning: Joyce-Perkins.tenet.edu: robino owned process doing -bs Bear: Most people consider SKY ISLAND one of Baum's best fantasies. It's certainly stronger than SEA FAIRIES. Pete: Thanks for info on ANIMAL FARM copyright. I fell into a trap there, didn't I, by citing the American first edit. copyright date. Oops. Careless of me. Craig: Congratulations! Jeremy: I vote for leaving Kiex back home. I like your posts better. Dave: I'm not getting the DIGEST regularly on AOL either. Sometimes they come in a day later than they do here on Tenet. This will bug me a lot when I have to drop my Tenet accoount and may be what sends me over the edge to another server. --R. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:42:06 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-08-97 Craig: >Megan Jade Mock Noble was born Thursday, September 4, 1997 at 11:34 a.m..< Congratulations on your little Megan! Did you know I have a little Megan, too? (She's eight.) Tyler: Okay. Something less than a fairy, but more than an ordinary Sorceress? (Glinda, that is. :-) ) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 21:55:48 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Ruth Berman: When I said that Bunbury had to be an allusion to Wilde's play, I didn't mean to imply that there is any thematic connection. More likely, Baum was taking a word that everyone (at least adults) knew and putting a very amusing spin on it by taking its components literally. It may seem as if the tension of the book is undermined--so to speak--by the fact that the ungoing advance of the enemy troops isn't mentioned at all during the many chapters that describe the various eccentric towns that Dorothy and her party visit. Still: if the Haff/Martin map is at all accurate, one can't help noticing that during the last leg of their journey (from the Tin Woodman's castle back to the Emerald City) Dorothy and the rest are unwittingly traveling directly above the tunnel as it heads toward the center of Oz--a decidedly creepy touch. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Neill's illustrations yet. This is surely the most sophisticated work he did for the Oz series. That depiction of Aunt Em confronting the Cowardly Lion is nothing short of surrealistic, and the extraordinary illustration of Guph approaching the Phanfasm bridge is like something out of Bosch. (Did anyone else notice the strange figure at the lower left: a phantom hunter lying on his stomach drawing a bead on the alligator?) Craig: Congratulations to you and your wife on the arrival of little Megan! --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 19:57:20 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-08-97 Hellooo Digesters, > I think I get it. Gasoline = Bad, Electricity = Good. The gasoline comes > out of the ground, where does the electricity come from? You know, Bear, if you're going to use your mordant wit possibly you should be a little less cryptic. If you are claiming that electricity (generated mostly at least on the West coast by non-polluting means--hydroelectric generators, nuclear reactors, wind turbines, even some geothermal plants, possible solar in some instances) is as bad for the environment or the economy as the burning of fossil fuel, I beg to differ. Maybe that was not your meaning. > All: Hi. I just purchased Oz-Story Magazine No. 1 from a local > comic shop. It was published in 1995 and is edited by David Maxine > and Eric Shanower. > Does anyone know if a No. 2 or No. 3 has been published? Doug, I have all three _OZ-Story Magazines_. They were published, and I purchased them from, Hungry Tiger Press 15 Marcy Street, Bloomfield, NJ 07003-3814 Possibly there is a website other than the one that lists the above address, but I can't find it. > What about food in Oz? Anything you've always been intrigued by? It has always seemed to me that Baum had a problem when it came to food because so many of Oz's inhabitants were so eminently edible. Not only John Dough, the Candy Man of Maryland, and the inhabitants of Bunbury, but Billina. the piglets, and the four-horned cow. It wouldn't be a good idea to look at your plate too closely, you might be eating someone's relative. He skips right past the everyday diet of the Hungry Tiger and the Cowardly Lion. And lastly, > Megan Jade Mock Noble was born Thursday, September 4, 1997 at 11:34 a.m.. > She was 7 pounds, 5 ounces and 19 inches long. Megan and her mother, Terry, > are doing well and healthy. I brought them home from the hospital yesterday > (Saturday). Welcome, Megan Jade Mock Noble! Congratulations Craig and Terry! Cigars are not necessary. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Content-return: allowed Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 12:43:28 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Oz Digest Does anyone know where copies of Turner's "The Wizard of Oz in concert" can be purchased? and price? Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Content-return: allowed Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 12:38:28 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Ozzy Digest 8 Sept Megan Jade Mock Noble--------welcome to the wonderful, wacky, world Craig.& Mrs. Noble.........job well done...congrats Send me an email with your smail address and I will send Megan a welcome to Oz gift.............the WWOz audio book. Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:23:39 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: [Fwd: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-08-97] Message-ID: <341572C1.1A9D@pittstate.edu> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:01:05 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-08-97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > All: Hi. I just purchased Oz-Story Magazine No. 1 from a local > comic shop. It was published in 1995 and is edited by David Maxine > and Eric Shanower. > Does anyone know if a No. 2 or No. 3 has been published? > > Doug > No. 2 & 3 have indeed been published, #3 just this summer. #2 contains the full text of Baum's POLICEMAN BLUEJAY and the very contraversial story "Abby," among other things. #3 has the text of THE FLYIHG GIRL and other things. > Many people, including myself, > have always wanted to try the Turkish Delight mentioned in the Chronicles of > Narnia. > It is available in many specialty candy stores. It is also called Rahat Lakoom, and celebrated in song in KISMET > > -- Craig > ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:54:11 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest I ran into an odd little change in technology/culture the other day. I was thinking I might like to have some bookplates done up special to go into some gift-books, and when I looked up Printers in the Yellow Pages, none of the ads mentioned bookplates among the services offered. When I called up a couple to ask, the answer was, "What's a bookplate?" Is this perhaps a result of the change from printing presses to photocopying for most printing services? Commercial bookplates are still around in some stores (although, I realize now, not as plentiful as they used to be). And I suppose if I wanted them for my own use, I could do up bookplates by photocopy on sheets of labels of the kind where the labels are about 3x4" (6/sheet), but that would be awkward for sending individual bookplates by mail. Anybody know when private bookplates disappeared and why? Another bookplatey change is that the commercial ones are now printed on sticky-paper-with-a-backing, instead of on gummed paper that is moistened to be made sticky. I have been wondering if this kind of adhesive is better or worse for the paper of the page it is placed on. Craig Noble: Congratulations on Megan! Wanting to try Turkish Delight -- have you ever seen the candy bar called Aplets or Cotlets (and some others depending on fruit base flavor)? It's an Armenian-American family rather than a Turkish one, but it's essentially the same stuff. Exotic Oz foodstuffs -- well, there's those zuzu wheels. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 02:01:01 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Ozzy Digest Congrats Craig! I am soon to be an Aunt, possibly this Friday (b/c of toxemic conditions the doc is planning a C-section). I am getting more excited every day! Ozzy decorations . . . I bought a few extra copies of my favorite Oz books (reprints of course) and made an Ozzy mobile. Well, did we ever figure out what a zuzu wheel is? I can't find out any place I've searched!! It's just one of those things now . . . Bill in Ozlo: I definitely enjoy Sesame Street, The Muppets, etc. more now than as a child because I can pick out and recognize the humor and nuances that make it so much more appealing than I found them as a child. I don't have kids, but some days I just turn it on for the sheer joy of the humor. In regards to the use of outlines in writing, I always felt sort of hypocritical when teaching my students about outlines, because I very rarely, okay never, write outlines! I think about my ideas and basically just freewrite. Then, I go back to do revision. As for my creative writing, so far I have just piddled with poetry. I don't really think outlines apply there, unless you're writing an epic! Douglas/Lori: Oz-Story No. 2 and No. 3 are available through the IWOC as far as I know. Ruth: My cat answers and comes when he is called. Actually, I don't call his name all of the time. I just have to make a small little clicking sound and he comes running. Of course, my cat argues with me when he doesn't get his way . . . my father who swears he is a cat-hater thinks that fact that my cat "talks" to me and changes the tones of his meows depending upon the condition of our "conversation" is amazing. I just read "The Mating Day" by Baum and found myself more intrigued by the differences in style. H/r, I didn't like the idea of the women being sort of commodities. Has anybody else read this? Well, I'm off to the coffee pot and then off to postcolonial literature reading . . . Peace & Love, Bompi ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 23:00:21 -0700 From: "A.E. Schaible" Subject: ozzy digest Doug Silfen: I should have told you about Oz-Story when I wrote to you before, sorry. Numbers 2 and 3 have been published, in '96 and '97 respectively. Number 2 contains some stories by Eric and one by Baum called _The Clockwork Man_ among other things. Both are well worth picking up if you see them, and if you have any trouble finding them you might possibly be able to order from Eric directly. Ruth Berman: Much as I would like to respond to your comment about overpopulation I will restrain myself because I don't want to encourage a discussion that does not deal with Ozzy things. Craig: Is it ever to early to read to a child? Why not give it a try, you may enjoy it more than she does though. Congratulations!!! Dave: Could you send me a copy of your FAQ, please? Liz Schaible ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:36:48 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz General: AOL has just bought CompuServe and shed their networks. May God have mercy on us all. The on-line service is dead. Long live the ISP. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 97 11:57:55 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things SPECIAL MESSAGE: Digest member Mark Anthony Donajkowski has asked me to pass on the following request: He has a friend who loves the Oz books but has lost his collection. Mark's friend is unable to buy replacements, and he was wondering if anyone on the Digest had spare copies of any of the books that they could send him. He is especially looking for a copy of _Purple Prince of Oz_. If anyone can help, please E-mail Mark privately at: madonajk@alpha.delta.edu OZMA'S FAMILY: Douglas S. wrote: >Question to all: Ozana, Ozma's cousin from THE MAGICAL MIMICS.... > ... is her character still under copyright? As far as I know, both of Snow's Oz books (ergo all the original characters therein) are public domain on a technicality... I have a question: Who are all of Ozma's cousins that we now know about? I know Ozana and Ozga, and then Gyma, my own addition to her family tree; but are there others? WARNING TO JEREMY: I think Kiex is back... BCF'S: Tyler wrote: >The reason we are considering inserting _Yew_ and _Sea Fairies_ (and soon >_Sky Island_) is that this is the point in time when Baum wrote these books >and these stories are generally considered to have taken place in the Oz >Universe. Of course, we seem to have skipped _Queen Zixi of Ix (my personal >favorite) and _John Dough and the Cherub_, but one can't have everything. Maybe I forget the debate we had, but I thought that we agreed to do _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_ because of their close ties with the Oz books, with characters from Oz books actually appearing in them. I don't recall our deciding to do _Yew_. OZMA AND GLINDA: >Well, with Glinda's major role in _Glinda_, he may have been planning to do >a lot more with her... But judging from _Glinda_, it seems like Baum was expanding Glinda's role at Ozma's expense (Ozma becoming a virtually helpless, arrogant ninny that needed Glinda to bail her out)...I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I always get mad at Ozma when she sluffs Glinda off at the beginning. Does that happen again in any later books? AOL: Well, it looks like the AOLers have still having problems, and the Compuservers are about to merged into them?? HELP!!!! :O Ozma: You called? :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 10, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 11:19:19 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Captain Kirk in Oz: In the episode "Plato's Stepchildren", the role of Alexander, a little person without the telekinetic power shared by the rest of Platonius, is played by Michael Dunn. Does anybody know if this might have been one of the Munchkins? The show was probably filmed in 1967 or 1968 --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 16:58:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-97 i have wiz of oz on ice with jewel as dorthy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 16:48:40 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-97 Personally, I trhought the evil Zog was a bit too much. _The Saea Firies_ is also surprisingly dark in the anti-heroic nature of characters like King Anko, who kills the Octopus prince just for being annoying, which doesn't seem very typical of Baum. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 18:30:47 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Doug >Oz-Story Magazine No. 1 Does anyone know if a No. 2 or No. 3 has been published? Yes, both - available from the same press. That is Hungry Tiger Press. Hey Bear I don't see why you should have such good service from Compuserve. You ought to suffer just like we on AOL do. Sigh. David - You know if you think about it, there are really too many books. They are cluttering up people's houses and causing a fire hazard. Printing them kills lots of trees and squids. Disposing of them causes smog. Let's tax anyone who writes a book double his normal rate. That should solve the problem. Liberally, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 18:54:33 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-97 Patrick: A copy of YEW with dust jacket? I wish! Douglas: >Question to all: Ozana, Ozma's cousin from THE MAGICAL MIMICS.... > does she appear again in any non FF stories? Also, is her character >still under copyright? Talking about DISCREPANCIES, it seems to me >that Ozana's absence in, say, Shanower's graphic novels and later >FF novels...it just seems odd. Snow should have left Ozana on the >mountain! :-) It's my understanding that the two Snow books are not under copyright, but don't take any drastic action based on this statement; I'm not an expert on copyright. I imagine that she isn't in Shanower's graphic novels or the later FF novels (there were only three) because there was no particular reason to put her there. None of those books has a lengthy sequence in the Emerald City, so it's not surprising that some people who live there never appear. I don't think Tollydiggle appears in any of those books, for instance. I'm not even sure Button-Bright does. Earl: >In the 28-29 Digest, David G. Hulan says, ugly, either.> >We may be misinterpreting what Glinda (in that movie) meant. Perhaps a >bad magic worker is ugly because he/she cannot work the spells to look >better (e.g., the magic is bad or inferior.) Or perhaps, the bad person >as magic worker *wants* to look bad to inspire fear. To be honest, I don't care what Glinda said in the movie. That is, it has no significance with respect to the rest of the Oz books; the movie is a _Ding an sich_ and is, as far as I'm concerned, in the same category as _Wicked_ or _Barnstormer_. Something to be enjoyed for what it's worth, but not Real Oz. Tyler: >Bear: (and others) >One day, we will have cold fusion and all our problems will be sovled, >except for how to get rid of the current pollution. Fusion energy someday I can buy. Cold fusion? Nobody yet has figured out how it would work in theory, much less in practice. As far as anybody knows it takes a large amount of energy to start a fusion reaction, though once it's started it generates more energy than it uses. Melody: >Okay. Something less than a fairy, but more than an ordinary Sorceress? >(Glinda, that is. :-) ) I don't think Glinda is _less_ than a fairy, just different from a fairy. The fairies don't seem to be the highest order of created being; Ak and his two cohorts (the Master Mariner and the Master Husbandman; can't recall their names offhand) seem to outrank them, and then there's a Supreme something-or-other above them who created the Cloak of Immortality. I think of Glinda as an immortal protective spirit for Oz; she no doubt welcomed Lurline's adding her enchantment to the mix, but I don't think she's inferior to Lurline, and is probably superior to Ozma in overall power. Gordon: >I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Neill's illustrations yet. This is >surely the most sophisticated work he did for the Oz series. That depiction >of Aunt Em confronting the Cowardly Lion is nothing short of surrealistic, >and the extraordinary illustration of Guph approaching the Phanfasm bridge >is like something out of Bosch. (Did anyone else notice the strange figure >at the lower left: a phantom hunter lying on his stomach drawing a bead on >the alligator?) Agreed about the quality of Neill's art, especially in the color plates. I was highly impressed when I finally got the BoW edition and had a chance to see them. The B/W illos are good, but I'd say a notch below _Road_ in quality. But the color plates are awesome. Ruth: >I ran into an odd little change in technology/culture the other day. I was >thinking I might like to have some bookplates done up special to go into >some gift-books, and when I looked up Printers in the Yellow Pages, >none of the ads mentioned bookplates among the services offered. >When I called up a couple to ask, the answer was, "What's a bookplate?" >Is this perhaps a result of the change from printing presses to >photocopying for most printing services? Commercial bookplates are still >around in some stores (although, I realize now, not as plentiful as they >used to be). And I suppose if I wanted them for my own use, I could do >up bookplates by photocopy on sheets of labels of the kind where the >labels are about 3x4" (6/sheet), but that would be awkward for sending >individual bookplates by mail. Anybody know when private bookplates >disappeared and why? Another bookplatey change is that the >commercial ones are now printed on sticky-paper-with-a-backing, instead >of on gummed paper that is moistened to be made sticky. I have been >wondering if this kind of adhesive is better or worse for the paper of the >page it is placed on. Could be the change is because of the great ease of creating that kind of thing oneself on a computer, much more "to order" than any printer is likely to be able to do for a reasonable price. Bompi: >I just read "The Mating Day" by Baum and found myself more intrigued by the >differences in style. H/r, I didn't like the idea of the women being sort >of commodities. Has anybody else read this? I never heard of that story. Where did it appear? Tyler (and Bear, who was silent today - maybe in mourning?): >AOL has just bought CompuServe and shed their networks. May God have >mercy on us all. The on-line service is dead. Long live the ISP. Requiescat in pace... Dave: >I have a question: Who are all of Ozma's cousins that we now know about? >I know Ozana and Ozga, and then Gyma, my own addition to her family tree; >but are there others? Maybe Kiex? (Maybe not...) Since I regard all members of Lurline's band as cousins of Ozma's, I suppose that Lurline herself and Ereol (who appears in ZIXI and again in my _Magic Carpet_, which seems as good a source as your unpublished book) should count. Who else? Faleero, maybe? (She's supposed to be a fairy of some kind...) Of course, I've always wondered how Ozga, who grew from a plant, could be a cousin of Ozma's, but let that pass until _Tik-Tok_ is the BCF... Of all Baum's non-Oz fantasies, I think YEW has the least claim to connection with Oz (except maybe _Master Key_). There's a thin possible connection through _Santa Claus_ with the reference to a mortal who became immortal, but that could just as easily apply to Enoch or Elijah or Jesus (or others from outside the Judeo-Christian tradition) as to Santa Claus. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 19:56:36 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-24-97 Richard Bauman wrote: >Was Gandalf just plain old or did his practice of >magic contribute? He _was_ old (about 1000), but, on the other hand, was an incarnate angelic being. I believe Tolkien once (outside of the text) explained that he took the appearance that he thought appropriate to the role he had to play. The notion of the use of magic damaging the practitioner is implicit in many works, but seems to be foreign to Tolkien's mythos. In the "Lord Darcy" universe, just about everyone can expect to live to be 100, magic user or no, but kings live shorter than usual lives, due to the tremendous strain put on them, and there exists a spell (regarded as unethical in the Anglo-French Empire) that allows one to remain like a 19-year-old, at the expense of a reduced lifespan. Users of black magic, however, can expect madness and a quick death in this world, in addition to damnation in the next. In Lewis's untitled SF trilogy, there is a suggestion that the use of magic is unhealthy, and Merlin is brought back from his sleep in order that he, already tainted by magic, can perform a needed task without risking an as-yet-innocent soul. Nathan Mulac DeHoff wrote: >"Gnome," spelled in the traditional manner, could easily mean "one who >knows." I believe the word "gnomus" means "knowledge" in some language >(Latin, perhaps). The ancient "gno-" root exists in English (modified to "kno-") and Greek, but was lost by all languages in between. (In the other Germanic languages, it was replaced by words related to MnE "wit" and "wisdom".) It is found in direct English descent in "know" and related words, and in Greek descent in "agnostic", as well as several technical theological and philosophical terms, such as "Gnostic". "Gnome" is related to the Greek root by Paracelsus, just as Baum says, but philologists have doubts, suspecting the origin may well be from some Germanic "g-vowel-n" word instead. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 20:20:05 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-97 David G. Hulan wrote: >It is, of course, true that their seniors have complained in much the >same terms about the behavior of teen-agers at least back to the times >of Socrates, and probably earlier. I'm not sure there was ever a time >when most teen-agers were willing to "dig" for things, or whether the >apparent increasing laziness is more a case of the observer getting >older and memories of past times getting rosier. Otherwise this >continous downward spiral for the last couple of millennia should have >reduced the numbers of energetic types close to zero by now, shouldn't >it? I quite agree with you, but with this caveat: it seems to me that, for the sake of short-term profit in sales of consumer goods, present- day society indulges -- nay, downright _pimps_ for -- this sort of attitude; this is a new thing under the sun, and I do not like it one bit. >To throw two cents into the words-vs-story discussion, C.S. Lewis >discusses this in one of his books - title was _An Experiment in >Criticism_ or something like that - and uses it to make the distinction >between mythic stories and those that aren't. A mythic story is one that >still grabs the reader regardless of the words it's expressed in, >including just a quick plot summary. This doesn't mean that there aren't >better and worse versions of mythic stories, but that the story line in >such a story is strong enough to withstand almost anything. Other >stories depend entirely on the words to make them work. >(I read the book a long time ago and may not be entirely accurate as to >what he said; I welcome correction by someone who's read it more >recently or remembers it better. But I thought he made a good point.) "An Experiment in Criticism" is one of those few books that I would call irreplaceable, in the sense that, to anyone who has read it, 99% of existing literary criticism falls apart like a wet tissue. Lewis mentions in his preface to later editions of "Screwtape" a part of how it works from the other side; once he had the _idea_ of "Screwtape", it almost wrote itself. He compares it to "Gulliver's Travels" in that respect, and I would cast a vote for "The Man Without a Country" as a similar case. (Quick -- how many incidents from "Man" can you put in textual order? Was it a brother or a cousin of Philip Nolan's who died in Texas? But it doesn't matter, does it?) Oz is not a perfect example of the phenomenon, but it leans that way. >Liz: I've never gotten the impression that anyone thinks Oz is on >another planet in our universe, though some may hold that view. It is implied in the front matter to "Queer Visitors", but not elsewhere, as far as I recall. >Since the upper class in Periclean Athens was just as horrified at being >"in trade" as in 19th century Britain, I don't think you can really >attribute it to Calvinism. Not to Calvinism, but to anti-Calvinism. As I say, check out a few Restoration comedies; many upper classes in history have looked down on the middle class, but not usually with the hatred and contempt you see between the high-Anglican nobility and the Calvinist merchants of the 1670's. >I think when "don" is used as a title for a Mafia capo it's capitalized. >But I think it's like "Sir," in that it should only be used with the >first name included - i.e. Don Carlo, or Don Carlo Gotti, but not Don >Gotti. (Drove me crazy in SPECKLED ROSE OF OZ when Abbott kept referring >to Sir Wylie Gyle as "Sir Gyle.") And, for what it's worth, the same thing is true of "Reverend". (It's not quite parallel to "Sir", though -- rather to "Honorable". "Reverend John Doe" or "Reverend Mr./Fr. Doe" are fine, but "Reverend Doe" ain't English.) // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:13:28 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Oz Digest Ruth: ref your question on bookplate. Can't say anything about the history current or past. However, not long ago I did a big project which produced a book (a northwest history) that was printed based on "charitable subscriptions" from a large number of people. The book copies were donated to schools throughout the region, and we had to put a bookplate in each with the contributor dedication information. From this I learned that "peel off" adhesive type labels sold in normal office supply stores have a very short life. The bookplates need to be made of paper that matches the expected life span of the book, and the adhesive must also match the life span. We used archival quality bookplate blanks and then I printed directly from computer on my laser printer. Hope this helps. Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:00:41 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz They always go in threes: First Princess Dianna, then Mother Theresa. I dreaded this moment, but I knew it was coming... Goodbye, Burgess Meredith. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 13:23:57 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things AOL AND WRITER'S TAX: Bear wrote: >Hey Bear I don't see why you should have such good service from Compuserve. >You ought to suffer just like we on AOL do. Sigh. This seems to be another case of "building the better mousetrap" having nothing to do with the case...Of course if Compuserve had had a little more reasonable monthly fees... >David - You know if you think about it, there are really too many books. >They are cluttering up people's houses and causing a fire hazard. Printing >them kills lots of trees and squids. Disposing of them causes smog. Let's >tax anyone who writes a book double his normal rate. That should solve the >problem. I think this new law is outragous! I said "Hippikaloric!" and threw my scepter at the TV when I first heard it. :) I guess writing is a "home business" the way ketchup is a vegetable. But what's the evidence you see that the environmentalists had anything to do with it? BOOKPLATES: I don't know much about bookplates, but is there anyone else who is unhappy that modern "Adult" (I mean that in a broad sense not a pornographic one) books don't have illustrations...I don't think pictures are "just for kids", and they seemed to agree in the days of Charles Dickens, Jane Austen, and the Bronte sisters. Why not today? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 11, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:42:25 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-97 At last! Late last night, the mysterious intruder finally showed herself. Yes, though I'm sure everyone was as astonished as I was, Kiex has been monitoring and editing my postings from my home, far away in Peachtree City. Around 12 last night, she appeared here at my dorm door and suggested (forcefully) that I accede to her requests -- she wants a full-fledged partnership (on her terms), including free rein on her comments, a less-than modest salary, and such. Anyway, by the end of the evening, I was so disgruntled that I threw my glass of water at her. And then, what never worked in Oz worked on her--she melted! I sure didn't expect it to be so easy! Anyway, we're free of her at last. On to _important_ things: >Nathan: >>David Hulan: >>It has been suggested that Nick Chopper's joints are made of iron. >?This could be why they can rust. >Possible, but I seem to recall a bit in _Wizard_ where a tear ran >down the Tin Woodman's cheek and rusted his mouth shut. I don't >remember any drawing of the TW where his jaw joint was far enough >forward to be under an eye; certainly not Denslow or Neill. The tear could have run down the cheeck and around it--it's a physical property of water (I don't remember its scientific name). >Bob Spark and Jeremy: >Oops! I meant that THOMPSON showed more Carrollian influence in her >books than did Baum, although I guess Carroll probably influenced >himself. Ah, now I understand--Thompson's style was _much_ more Carrollesque, I agree. Compuserve and AOL: I wonder if the new AOL / Compuserve will still cost the same amount as Compuserve did before. Not that I have any hope of switching, once I get home--my father and sister are hooked on AOL. Oh, well. That's all for today; may Ozzy thoughts be yours and your kin's. --Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:25:06 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Melody: That sounds about right, not because I want it to be, but because that is the closest fit to what we know of Glinda. She is clearly more than just an ordinary magic-worker. As David said, there are indestructible beings that are not fairies. Glinda certainly appears human, but is definitely something more. I'll go along with the idea that she is extremely powerful, and more than human. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:04:37 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-97 David: > Possible, but I seem to recall a bit in _Wizard_ where a tear ran down the Tin Woodman's cheek and rusted his mouth shut. I don't remember any drawing of the TW where his jaw joint was far enough forward to be under an eye; certainly not Denslow or Neill.< Aha! You noticed that, too. That's why I've lately been depicting the Tin Woodman with a ventriloquist dummy's style mouth. Nick: Come now. I may not have requested brains, but I'm no dummy.... The action of such a mouth looks more a living human's than a jaw hinged back near the ear--that sort of jaw reminds one too much of a skull--and would be in direct line of fire (or tears) from Nick's eyes. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:06:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-97 X-Authentication-warning: Joyce-Perkins.tenet.edu: robino owned process doing -bs I wish I could get the DIGEST on AOL. Maybe I could avoid that da*ned heading... Maybe, MAYbe, the merger will fix some of the problems? Maybe? Ruth: Scary to think about the disappearance of bookplates. Very scary. Dunno if the gum (Frances?!) adhesive is more or less damaging than the old stickum. Maybe Herm, Pete, or Peter will know. All: Blame the pun above on Jeremy. It's contagious. ;-) Bompi: Outlines have their place. They do help some kids to organize. Also good for notetaking, since outlining puts info into visual "chunks." Cats: Anyone who thinks cats are cold doesn't know cats. I had a kitten once who'd sleep between my head and shoulder and who insisted on using my left ear as a nose rest. She purred us both to sleep. I like dogs...love our Lucy (a Wheaten Cairn Terrier), but cats really rock. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:56:06 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Help! No Ozzy Digest Dear Dave, I haven't received the Ozzy Digest since August 31st. Several days ago I requested that you resend all the September Digests, but I still haven't received them. Help! -- Craig Noble [Could some kind soul help Craig out since my mail doesn't seem to be reaching him...Thanks! -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:48:32 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Gnomes and gnomus: I don't know Latin (yet), but the root word gno- is (in various forms) in many languages. Only in French is it completely changed. Here are those that I know: English: know Russian: znayet (pronounciation) French: connaitre -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsites;home ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:43:17 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest - Turbulent Water In the 9/2-4 Digest, Gordon Birrell questions the morality of using the "nuclear bomb" of the Water of Oblivion on the invading Nomes and their allies. I share Gordon's unease. Perhaps Ozma's total inability to mount any defense against the invasion excuses the Water's use -- It was either use the Water, or allow Oz's total destruction. Earl Abbe (I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:33:52 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-10-97 Tyler, > In the episode "Plato's Stepchildren", the role of Alexander, a little > person without the telekinetic power shared by the rest of Platonius, is > played by Michael Dunn. Does anybody know if this might have been one of > the Munchkins? The show was probably filmed in 1967 or 1968 I don't believe that Michael Dunn is old enough to have one of the Munchkins. If he is the person I am thinking of he is quite an accomplished actor and had one of the leading roles in "A Ship Of Fools" during the 60's (I think). At that time he appeared to be in his 20's or early 30's. Great movie, by the way. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:02:24 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-10-97 David: >Of course, I've always wondered how Ozga, who grew from a plant, could be a cousin of Ozma's, but let that pass until _Tik-Tok_ is the BCF...< I used to wonder about this one too, so in SBM1, Zim supplies an explanation. His account doesn't state it flat out--a reader familiar with the Oz books has to make the connection that Omiarr, the Roses' fairy ancestor, is related to Ozma, that's how his plantlike descendents can be her distant cousins. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:34:39 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Hmmmm. Wednesday and no Digest. Well I'll get ready ahead. I belong to the Big Little Book Collectors Club. Our magazine had an article on web sites. One of them http://www.erols.com/jbevans/ listed a copy of "Laughing Dragon" for sale. Incredible. In the unlikely event that one of you would really, really like to own a copy, this one is in "Fine" condition and is listed at $195. I would almost be willing to sell mine for that. Ten cents to $195, that is real appreciation. In the same magazine someone has a "Wizard of Oz Waddle Book" dated 1934 in VFN condition for sale. Without the waddles. $295. If you're interested he is David Welch and his email is PEZDUDE.1@aol.com Hmmm, I wonder what else he collects. :) In other news, I just ordered Baum's "American Fairy Tales" and Michael Riley's "Oz and Beyond" from BOW. If you are calling them don't use the 1-800-345-6665 number. I was told they no longer do business with BOW. Use the number at the bottom of the page 1-800-207-6968. By the way, this issue of the Oz Collector has a nice plug for Digesters David Hulan (Glass Cat) and Ruth Berman for her short story "Sherlock Holmes In Oz" in Kaye's "The Game is Afoot." Someone asked about Fred Meyer's questionnaire. About all I can conclude from it is that IWOOC members have lots of ideas, are pretty undiscriminating, 25 liked everything and those who are discriminating are pretty superficial; the largest number 8, liked the covers and interior color best. :) Ah! Here is the Digest. Hmmm. Missing my last post???? Has AOL struck already? David - I must have misread your latest post. It sounded like you were promoting Capitalism! :) Jeremy >I have no earthly idea where that sentence that everyone says I said about bringing Kiex up to college came from! I see you don't keep copies of your own posts. Thus: /___\ *** THE*OZZY*DIGEST,*SEPTEMBER*6, 1997 *** ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:00:39 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-97 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Jeremy Steadman P.S. I have received an urgent request from KIEX to allow her to join me at Berry. What do you think? Jeremy, I think you should go down to the Barry Health Center and tell them about Kiex. Maybe they can help you. :) It was the same Digest in which I asked if you were going to Dave Barry U. It was not a serious question. I guess you don't know Dave Barry is a noted humorist. >What about hydrolysis-powered cars with harmless by-products and powered by water as close as the nearest drinking fountain? (I'm no expert on this, but it sounds good to me.) Sounds good to me too. It reminds me of the character in Raggedy Ann, the "Snitznoodle." He was perfectly happy with air sandwiches. Sigh. Spark - No that wasn't my meaning. Cryptically, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:55:47 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-10-97 Scott H: Zog is probably the most evil character Baum created, or at least I can't think of a worse one, especially one who was active in the story line for so long. The First and Foremost and the Grand Gallipoot were probably as wicked, but they weren't on stage very long. Check the other major villains: The WWW, Mombi, Roquat/Ruggedo, the Scoodlers, Krewl, Blinkie, Gos and Cor, Ugu, Mrs. Yoop, Kiki Aru, Coo-ee-oh, the Su-dic, the Mifkets, Ali Dubh, the Red Rogue, the Roly-Rogues, the Boolooroo of the Blues - none of them really match up to Zog, in my opinion. Bear: Since you're refraining from commenting on false dichotomies, I'll do the same. John K.: It may well be that contemporary American society, for whatever reason, really does encourage teens to avoid difficult tasks, particularly intellectual ones. I know that this is a common complaint among immigrant parents - that once their kids started associating with American kids, they were pressured to reduce the intensity of their studying. (This is especially true of Asian immigrants, but it's common among immigrants from Europe and Latin America as well.) >And, for what it's worth, the same thing is true of "Reverend". (It's >not quite parallel to "Sir", though -- rather to "Honorable". "Reverend >John Doe" or "Reverend Mr./Fr. Doe" are fine, but "Reverend Doe" ain't >English.) Quite right in the strict sense, although the use of "Reverend" with the surname only is so well-established that it's probably become standard usage. Language, after all, is subject to change with time. Tyler: >They always go in threes: > >First Princess Dianna, then Mother Theresa. I dreaded this moment, but I >knew it was coming... > >Goodbye, Burgess Meredith. > Here in Chicago, at least, Sir Georg Solti was considered to be the third. Meredith makes the fourth in less than two weeks. Dave: I expect the absence of illustrations in most adult fiction books these days is the result of the reluctance of publishers to pay artists as well as writers. You do find them occasionally, but usually only in small-press publications where nobody really expects to make any money from it. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:01:55 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-10-97 Tyler: >In the episode "Plato's Stepchildren", the role of Alexander, a little person without the telekinetic power shared by the rest of Platonius, is played by Michael Dunn. Does anybody know if this might have been one of the Munchkins? The show was probably filmed in 1967 or 1968< I cannot be positive, but I don't think Dunn existed when MGM's "Wizard" was made. He did also play the evil Dr. Loveless in TV's "Wild, Wild West," also back in the 60's. Sadly, he's dead now. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:10:52 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Tyler Jones: Michael Dunn was only about 30 in 1968 when "Plato's Stepchildren" was filmed, too young to have taken part in the 1939 "Wizard." His best known role was the recurring villain, Dr. Miguelito Loveless, in "Wild, Wild West," also in the late 60's. He died in (I think) the 70's (having been in poor health most of his life). // Deaths don't actually go in threes. What do Princess Diana, Mother Theresa, and Burgess Meredith have in common besides being famous? -- and if it's a matter of famous deaths, Sir George Solti and the exiled African leader Mobotu died in the same week. David Hulan: As you say, "Yew" seems removed from the world of Baum's other fantasy stories -- so much so that it isn't even on the "Tik-Tok" map, although the expansion Martin and Haff did, showing Oz-and surroundings as an island continent with ocean all around, was plausible and made it easy to find room on the map to include Yew among the islands added. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:11:43, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-10-97 Tyler Jones:>played by Michael Dunn. Does anybody know if this might have been one of the Munchkins?< According to the list of munchkins in "The Munchkins Remember: The Wizard of Oz and Beyond", by Stephen Cox, there was no Michael Dunn in the WOO. Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 16:10:29 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Well, I've gotten seveal private E-mails from people on AOL saying that they're not receiving the Digest. Thing is, Delphi is updating everything this week (part of the transition to Mindspring), so I'm not completely certain the fault rests solely with AOL...In any case, I'm going to get September's Digests posted on a web page in the next day or two, so people get get it that way. I'm sorry for the inconvenience to everyone... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 12 - 13, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:18:40 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-10-97 Since we've had a contest to produce an Oz book in Baum's style. I think we should all get together and write a story using Thompson's style. Here, I'll start it off... ---- Far off in the most remote corner of Oz is the little known kingdom of Chucklonia. Here in this quaint kingdom, everyone is named Chuck. When new babies are born in Chucklonia (which seems to happen all the time despite the fact that no one ever dies), half the children are filled with helium so that they float into the air. These Chucklonians live out their life in the air, and are called the Up Chucks. They are tethered by a string tied to their leg, and attached to the wrist of one of the earth-bound Chucklonians, called Ground Chucks. The Ground Chucks look up to the Up Chucks, but I'm ashamed to admit that the Up Chucks generally look down on the Ground Chucks, since they felt the Ground Chucks were always stringing them along. One day, Prince Chuck decided to run away from home because his mother, Queen Chuck, lost her crown and decided to wear a china cabinet on her head instead. Prince Chuck was constantly annoyed by the Queen's repeated attempts at going through doorways wearing the china cabinet, which always resulted in knocking the cabinet off her head and creating a horrendous racket. So one night, Prince Chuck gathered all his belongings, snuck out to the Chuck Wagon, and rode out of town. As Oz is the nicest, friendliest place you'd ever want to visit, everyone Chuck met ridiculed him, threw objects at him, or tried to lock him up in jail. While Chuck was reflecting on this treatment, being very grateful that he lived in a friendly place, he met up with a talking sign post, which was delightfully naive and said the cutest things, but had some cryptic slogan painted on it which nearly everyone seemed to take as a personal insult. ---- That's it, who's taking it from here? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:13:33 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls MAD - IMO, you have finally achieved total unintelligiblity. sahutchi - And you have violated Digest etiquette. We are not discussing Sea Fairies for another week. Were you unaware of this? Whew - Communication really is difficult. Dave, Compuserve charges $9.95 per month for 300 minutes. That is plenty for me and sure beats twice that on AOL even though it is unlimited, IIRC. And yes, I am in mourning. Why? I have never had to wait to connect to Compuserve at any time. Any AOLers that can say that? The tax on authors was me responding to David's solution to atmospheric pollution, which was to tax gasoline users to death. It is the liberal methodology to find some supposed ill in society e.g. smoking, drinking, pollution, logging, global warming, etc. and claim "IT HURTS THE CHILDREN." Then they crank up the sycophantic press and rail against it to gather public support. Finally they attempt to pass laws to tax it to death. Sometimes they succeed. It's just a matter of time until they get around to something that matters to you. Please, beam me up. Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:15:54 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-97 Ruth: "island continent" is redundant. Sorry. I went to a Fine Print reception tonight. Perhaps I should have brought my novel, in which I had Polychrome try to compose a poem about her father off the top of her head WITHOUT it trying to sound clicheed. She really stumbles around with it, but she often cleverly, or inadvertantly, depending upon how you look at it, avoids obvious rhmes and goes the free-verse route instead. I wasn't there, but she's not too sure herself, from what she told me. It was challenging to make it sound like she was composing it on the spot, making it perhaps the toughest poem I have ever written. (sorry, Polychrome) Scraps's poem is certainly unusual for Scraps, but she has no trouble composing it. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:24:47 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-10-97 > To be honest, I don't care what Glinda said in the movie. That is, it has > no significance with respect to the rest of the Oz books; the movie is a > _Ding an sich_ and is, as far as I'm concerned, in the same category as > _Wicked_ or _Barnstormer_. Something to be enjoyed for what it's worth, but > not Real Oz. I wonder if there will ever be a HACC Oz film, unless I get to make one. > >I just read "The Mating Day" by Baum and found myself more intrigued by the > >differences in style. H/r, I didn't like the idea of the women being sort > >of commodities. Has anybody else read this? > > I never heard of that story. Where did it appear? > It appeared in _The Baum Bugle_ a few years back. There is a chronological list of all of L. Frank Baum's writings (and most of the films based on his work) at http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?Baum,+L.+Frank There is also http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?Hutchins+Scott which lists most of my works, and my two bits of uncredited work in video/motion pictures. _Oz: The American Fairyland_ and for a scene in G. Allen Johnson's _The Waiter_, where I happened to drive by in the background. _The Waiter_ may be coming to your local art house, or it may not. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:45:16 -0700 From: Robert Schroeder Subject: Ozzy Stuff It was a nightmare I tell you! The other day, I decided to finally purchase _The Wizard of Oz_, so I turned into my local Borders bookstore and began the search. Where does one look for a children's book that seems to be read by more adults? Ah-ha!! There it is! Oh joy, not just one, but the entire series!! So, I'll just get the first two and have....no, wait....little girl!! You can't buy _Land of Oz_, I am! (after a moment of mental struggle, I let her have it...after all, why would I want to deprive another child of the pleasure that I missed?) So, I settled on _Wizard_ and _Ozma_ and headed to the checkout, only to have to explain to the clerk that, no, there was no lucky child who would be recieving these copies, its just that I am 30 years behind in my reading. Mission Accomplished!! Now, when will I find time to read them? Answer...Next day, ozone alert, asthma attack, nice hospital stay. Yes, I finally got these two read, and I have to thank all of you. Had it not been for your discussions, I might have just put this one back. But I made it!! And I don't think the heavy drugs they used on my at the hospital effected the story at all (except for that dream of the Kalidahs chasing me down a long corridor, but that is something I need to take up with my therapist) And now, I'm set to check out _Ozma_, but I still can't help but wonder what I am missing by skipping _Land_...oh well, there's no place like Borders!! Thanks again everyone for introducing my to this wonderful series! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:57:10 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Wow! Digests are flying. As soon as I send a response, another arrives. Dave, I also really appreciate an illustrated book. Once in a while now you will find one. I think illustrations are the victim of publishing costs. Back when you could get artists to work for peanuts it was no problem. (Right Melody?) I am sure publishers have run tests to see if the public is willing to pay more for illustrations. Evidently the answer is mostly no. I expect Ruth and Bill will weigh in on this. You do find them in special editions now and then, but you also really pay for them. Earl >In the 9/2-4 Digest, Gordon Birrell questions the morality of using the "nuclear bomb" of the Water of Oblivion on the invading Nomes and their allies. I share Gordon's unease. Perhaps Ozma's total inability to mount any defense against the invasion excuses the Water's use -- It was either use the Water, or allow Oz's total destruction. If this is so why are you "unease(y)?" Are you a Quaker? If someone breaks into your house to rob and possibly kill you are you just going to stand there? Are you uncomfortable with the concept of self-defense? I thought Ozma's response was the kindest and gentlest possible of a number of options and you characterize it as "total inability to mount any defense against the invasion." I don't get it. David >Bear: Since you're refraining from commenting on false dichotomies, I'll do the same. Were you implying that I presented you with one? I want to be sure we are on the same page. I should be caught up on Digests as of now. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:40:01 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-97 Bear: $195 for the BLB of "Laughing Dragon"? Beam me up. And a "Waddle Book" without the waddles seems to me to be nothing more than a not-too-old edition of _Wizard_, which at $295 is even more exorbitant. >David - I must have misread your latest post. It sounded like you were >promoting Capitalism! :) I have always said that capitalism, tempered by democracy, is the best economic/political system available. I just think that capitalism must be tempered by democracy to survive long-term, because without some controls on the (perfectly understandable) greed of those who have the capital, there will eventually be a proletarian revolution that will result in a far worse system. Or, if not that, then the "tragedy of the commons" will eventually wipe out civilization on the planet because it's to everyone's individual advantage to pollute the environment rather than control one's effluents, unless there's some regulation (and I favor taxes on polluting rather than straight bureaucratic regulation) of pollution. And we're definitely approaching the point where pollution could make civilization impossible within the next century or two. Dave: I'm pretty sure the problem is with AOL and not with Delphi. ---------------- I'm off for the rest of the weekend to Virginia for my younger nephew's wedding. I'll see you all next week. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:25:03 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Oz Digest David L: To know in Norwegian is "vet" (present tense) Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:27:20 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-97 Re puns: Darn right they're contagious! How do you think I became infected? Bear: I tell you, I didn't write it! (the message about bringing Kiex to college. Anyway, it's all settled now.) I do know who Dave Barry is--I've read his columns on occasion. I just wasn't aware the University was named after him. Ozzily yours, Jeremy Steadman (without Kiex!) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:32:43 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-97 Dave Hardenbrook, Sorry I didn't bring this up sooner, but I appreciated the "Catsup as a vegetable" comment a couple of days ago. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:12:39 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-97 Further thoughts, Melody, > I don't remember any drawing > of the TW where his jaw joint was far enough forward to be under an eye; > certainly not Denslow or Neill.< I have heard of a country and western song titled "There Are Tears In My Ears From Lyin' On My Back On The Floor Cryin' Over You". I can't attest to the authenticity of that title but maybe that's the fix that the TW found himself in :-). > false dichotomies A dictionary definition of "dichotomy" follows" > Noun: dichotomy > 1. classification into two opposed parts > 2. a sorting of a class of things into two mutually exclusive subclasses I am trying to clarify "false dichotomies" in my mind so I will be able to avoid the little buggers. How 'bout an example? Thanks, Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:13:45 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-97 Robin: >Cats: Anyone who thinks cats are cold doesn't know cats.< Hear! Hear! I second that notion. Three cheers for loving putty-tats! Now ,those who love to turn joy to pain--there's my definition of a cold person/pet/whatever. And such beings can be withdrawn or outgoing. :-) The evil Zog of "Sea Fairies" is just such a villain, when he tells his captives he's going to break their hearts, etc. Tyler & Dave: If AOL bought Compuserve, I haven't seen any sign of it, yet. However, when I went to a couple of their Compuserve's) forums, the forums were almost deserted, and very little new data or programs had been uploaded this year. Compuserve's business must've dropped off. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 04:31:03 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Wizard of Oz Party Supplies Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' , 'Jane Albright' Diana, I know that Hallmark has at times had Oz party goods, but am not sure whether there are any current products. I'm forwarding your message to the Ozzy Digest, as some of the readers may be able to give you more details. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot Webmaster The International Wizard of Oz Club -----Original Message----- From: DLINDH@aol.com [SMTP:DLINDH@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 1997 1:54 PM Subject: Wizard of Oz Party Supplies Hello. Can you please tell me if there are Wizard of Oz party supplies (paper plates, cups, napkins, favors, etc.) available to purchase for a child's birthday party? Thanks, Diana ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:24:24 -0700 From: John Anthony Miller Subject: New Oz site Dave, Here is another Oz link that you might want to add to your page... The Official Buddy Ebsen Home Page--"The Other Side of Oz" http://www.phantoms.com/buddy.htm Best, John Anthony Miller ================================================= PHANTOM BOOKSHOP www.phantoms.com "The Unusual, The Wonderful, The Fine and Rare..." STAN DEYO (US Mirror Site) http://www.phantoms.com/stan.htm BUDDY EBSEN-Authorized Web Site http://www.phantoms.com/buddy.htm Richard Senate -Ghost Hunter http://www.phantoms.com/ghost.htm Sean Casteel -UFO Journalist http://www.phantoms.com/seanc.htm ================================================= ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:47:47 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Shifting Sands Now availabe from: Buckethead Enterprises of Oz 1606 Arnold Palmer Loop Belen, NM 87002 (505)864-4690 http://members.aol.com/OzBucket/webpage/home.htm The Shifting Sands of Oz by Marin Elizabeth Xiques, Marcus Mebes, et al. A delightful way to pass the time while travelling across the Deadly Desert in search of Oooliphlop's lost hair ribbon. ITEM #58, $12.00. Also available: Limited Edition art print of the back cover by the late Marcus Mebes. Printed on parchment, hand-tinted and signed by the artist -- suitable for framing. $10.00 Special offer = Both for $20.00! A bargain! ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 14 - 16, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:18:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-97 John Anthony Miller: How's it going with the book you're illustrating? Any copyright problems with Poppy Ott? Thanks for the Buddy Ebsen info. Robert: I loved the concept of "No, no, little girl, that book is mine." Good for you for letting her have it. I was at my first Winkie auction many years ago and gave up bidding on a book when it came down to me and a kid's bidding on a book. Kid gave me a pleading look and I caved. After the auction, kid came up to me and said (with a smirk) "That pathetic look always gets 'em!" and marched off with the book. Grrrrr. But you did the right thing and were rewarded with a day's good reading. Were you in the hospital when I was, I wonder. Got stuck Sat. night through Mon. night. All's well now as, I hope, it is with you. I wish *I'd* had an Oz book to read. I had to grade papers instead! Mike Denio: I always knew you were sick, but I loves ya anyway! Thanks for the CHUCKle. BTW, "sick" is a relative term in my vocabulary. "Normal" equals "boring," right? --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:37:57 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls David - See, just like capital punishment you and I are substantially in agreement on capitalism. We'll have to try harder to find something to disagree about. Nothing is less interesting than someone who always agrees with you. Hmmm, maybe that is why I prefer cats to dogs! Spark - The shorter version is "I've Got Tears In My Years Over You." I even remember the melody and some of the lyrics. My usage of "false dichotomy" is when someone offers you two choices as though those were the only two possible. Liberals are infamous for presenting them. :) Example: Your wife says, "Either you take me to the "Ritz" for dinner or you are getting tuna helper at the kitchen table." Hmmmm. How about: If we don't execute murderers, eventually the courts will let them out to murder someone else. And really the concept is an aid to thinking about issues. Melody - According to the letter from the president, Compuserve is going to be maintained as an independent entity with "no" negative changes. They will offer you the chance to move over to AOL or upgrade though. We'll see....... I can't comment on any forums as I don't use them. The Digest is it for me. Speaking of which. I like the every other day periodicity. I gather you do this based on the input? Weekend Regards, Bear (:<) (By the way, there is nothing weak about my end!) P.S. Gili, come back!!!!!!! Harvard can't be that demanding. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:01:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: ozzy stuff okay last chance here im gonna mail out what i got for the guy hopefully next week so if someone wants to still help write me off the list in case you dont know what im talking about there is a guy i chat with on proidgy who is 61 he is on ssi and va (disablity i do beleive) basically has no money he loves the wizard of oz and used to have all the books till he lost them id like to spread some joy into this mans life by giving him back somethign he lost to try to make his old age happy im not asking for valuable copies just reader copies if you want to help anything oz im sending him a copy of land of oz a copy of the movie a copy of wizard of oz in concert with jewel as dorthey which i taped off tbs a copy of wizard of oz on ice soundtrack and copies of the cartoons i have id like to sendd him a copy of purple prince as this is what he goes by so if anyone wants to help email me off the list at madonajk@alpha.delta.edu once agian ill say im not asking for valuable copies just readers copies or maybe a paperback duplicate you got maybe the 2 for a dollar versions from walmart ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 06:44:29 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-97 Bear, > It is the liberal methodology to find some supposed ill in > society e.g. smoking, drinking, pollution, logging, global > warming, etc. and claim "IT HURTS THE CHILDREN." Speaking of being on the same page, here once again is a dictionary definition of "liberal": > Noun: liberal > 1. a person who favors a political philosophy of progress > and reform and the protection of civil liberties > 2. a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire > and self-regulating markets > > Adjective: liberal > 1. tolerant > 2. tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, > orthodoxy, or tradition > 3. given or giving freely Doesn't sound like your description, does it? > Ruth: "island continent" is redundant. Sorry. Not necessarily. Europe and Asia are both commonly referred to as "continents" but neither is an island unto itself (to paraphrase Donne). Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:30:25 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-97 Bear: I agree with you (!) that the Fountain of Oblivion was the easiest and most effective option open to Ozma in dealing with the Nome invasion. After all, if Ozma believed the memory loss would be permanent, she would have no more to worry about from Roquat ever again. <>: As the hamburger said while running the race to find the best kind of meat, "I'm in a fine pickle! I've mustard all my strength and I still can't catsup! I've been in trouble be-fork, but this beats oil! And I thought it was well-done, too!" Just thought you'd appreciate that. :-) Ozzily humorous, Jeremy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:30:45 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest ISPs: If you wnat low cost and good service, switch to a local ISP. My ISP chargest only $10.99 a month, or $9.99 per month if you pay for 6 months at a time. The only problem is that they don't accept credit cards, But I think that it's better to spend 32 cents a month and spend an extra $7 for their nearest competitor. If you can live without AOL's content, you should switch to a local ISP. BOW Books: I'm starting to get the series from them, so far I've bought Road, Scarecrow, Patchwork Girl, and Dorothy and the Wizard. I have a few questions about the books. Are the dust covers that are on them the original covers? They look completely different from the R&L books in the library that is near me. Also, were the pages in Road tinted in different colors in the original R&L edition? -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsites;home ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:14:04 -0700 From: "John A. Grund" Subject: Oz Books Joel Harris , Jennie Gibbs , Dave Hardenbrook X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Hello, My name is John A. Grund. I have been looking around the Internet to get information about my Oz books. I am considering selling them at this time. My father was a collector of Oz books and left 9 books to me. The others (about 14) went elswere. I have been holding on to these for about 32 years. The books which I have are as follows: Luck Bucky In Oz Tan cover with a color paper front. All pictures inside are black and white. The binder is discolored and frayed at the top. Ozoplaning With The Light brown cover with a color paper front. All pictures Wizard Of Oz. inside are black and white. The binder is discolored and frayed at the top. The Lost Princess Of Blue cover with a color paper front. All pictures inside Oz. are black and white. The binder is discolored and frayed at the top. Kabumpo In Oz Green cover with a color paper front. All pictures inside are black and white. The binder is discolored and frayed at the top. The Hungry Tiger Of Blue cover with a color paper front.All pictures inside are Oz. black and white. The binder is discolored and frayed at the top. The Lost King Of Oz. Blue cover with a color paper front.All pictures inside are black and white. The binder is discolored and frayed at the top. Wishing Horse of Oz Orange cover with a color paper front.All pictures inside are black and white. The binder is discolored and frayed at the top. Speedy In Oz. Orange cover with a color paper front.All pictures inside are black and white. The binder is discolored and frayed at the top. Giant Horse Of Oz. Red cover with a color paper front. Pictures inside are black and white and color. The binder is discolored and is falling off the entire length. I am looking for people who deal with Oz books to help me determine what value they have. I ran across your E-Mail address and thought this is a good place to start. Thanks for your time, John A. Grund [This person is not on the Digest, so please E-mail him privately. -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:04:45 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Scott: I don't know about HACC films. In general, Chris and I prefer only to have published books on the list. Of course, one could always do a film that is strongly based on one of the books, and it would be HACC-related if not on the list itself. Robert: _Land_ and _Ozma_ are fairly well untangled. That is, you can read them in reverse order and not miss much, although some things may seem unfamiliar to you. David and Bear: FYI, the environmental destruction in "The tragedy of the commons" took place on public (government owned) land, and not privately held land. In other words, people were not so eager to damage things that they owned. CompuServe on AOL: The deal will not be finalized for another six months. After that, the downward slide will begin. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:26:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Death of C. Warren Hollister Reported C. WARREN HOLLISTER, 1930-1997 Professor C. Warren Hollister, internationally renowned scholar and specialist in medieval English history died after a brief illness on September 14. Hollister was long a member of The International Wizard of Oz Club. In 1964, he was co-founder, with Peter E. Hanff, Blake Maxam, and Judy Pike of the Winkie Convention (then a one-day event). He contributed articles to the Club's journal, The Baum Bugle, served at as Club Vice President, Director, and Chair of the Winkie Convention. He was a popular auctioneer at both Ozmopolitan and Winkie Conventions. He was the recipient of the L. Frank Baum Memorial Award in 1974 and the Winkie Award in 1993. Warren Hollister's interest in juvenile fantasy novels extended well beyond the writings of L. Frank Baum and the Oz series. He was particularly fond of the works of Ursula K. LeGuin, C. S. Lewis, and J. R. R. Tolkien, as reflected in Hollister's seminal essay, "Oz and the Fifth Criterion," published in The Baum Bugle, in 1971. In that work Hollister compared the success of Baum's creation of an imaginary realm with these three major writers who also created extended works of fantasy. Hollister's knowledge of Baum and Oz extended to fine points of descriptive bibliography and he was generous in working with the authors of Bibliographia Oziana and Bibliographia Baumiana over the years. The entire Hollister family, but particularly Warren's wife, Edith, were all involved in aspects of Oz and frequently attended Club conventions. A wonderful family tradition was the reading of L. Frank Baum's The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus each Christmas season. The Oz Club has lost a major member and friend. Warren is survived by his beloved wife, Edith, and two sons, Larry and Robert, and their families. All who know them share their sense of loss. The following checklist of major works by C. Warren Hollister reveals the breadth of his work and the great popularity of several of his texts, which have gone through numerous editions. 1. Hollister, Warren, 1930- The moons of Meer [by] Warren Hollister [and] Judith Pike. Illustrated by Richard Lebenson. New York, H. Z. Walck [1969]. 2. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Anglo-Saxon military institutions on the eve of the Norman Conquest. Oxford, Clarendon Press, 1962. 3. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The annual term of military service in medieval England. [n.p.] 1960. 4. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The five-hide unit and the old English military obligation. Cambridge, Mass., The Mediaeval Academy of America, 1961. 5. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Hsi yang chung ku shih = Medieval Europe : a short history / C. Warren Hollister chu ; Chang Hsueh-ming i. Ch'u pan. T'ai-pei shih : Lien ching ch'u pan shih yeh kung ssu, min kuo 75 [1986]. Series title: Hsi yang wen hua shih i ts'ung ; 1. 6. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The impact of the Norman Conquest, edited by C. Warren Hollister. New York, Wiley [c1969]. Series title: Major issues in history. 7. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- King John and the historians. [n.p., n.d.]. 8. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Landmarks of the Western heritage, edited by C. Warren Hollister. New York, Wiley [1967]. 9. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Landmarks of the Western heritage. Edited by C. Warren Hollister. 2d ed. New York, Wiley [1973]. 10. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Landmarks of the Western heritage since 1500, edited by C. Warren Hollister. New York, Wiley [1967]. 11. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The making of England, 55 B.C.-1399 [by] C. Warren Hollister. Boston, Heath [c1966]. Series title: A History of England, v. 1. 12. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The making of England, 55 B.C.-1399 [by] C. Warren Hollister. 2d ed. Lexington, Mass., D. C. Heath [1971]. 13. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The making of England, 55 B.C. to 1399 / C. Warren Hollister. 3d ed. Lexington, Mass. : Heath, c1976. Series title: A History of England ; 1. 14. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The making of England, 55 B.C. to 1399 / C. Warren Hollister. 4th ed. Lexington, Mass. : D.C. Heath, c1983. Series title: History of England (D.C. Heath and Company : Fourth edition) ; 1. 15. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The making of England, 55 B.C. to 1399 / C. Warren Hollister. 5th ed. Lexington, Mass. : D.C. Heath, c1988. Series title: History of England (D.C. Heath and Company : Fifth edition) ; 1. 16. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The making of England, 55 B.C. to 1399 / C. Warren Hollister. 6th ed. Lexington, Mass. : D.C. Heath., c1992. Series title: History of England (D.C. Heath and Company : Sixth edition) ; 1. 17. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The making of England, 55 B.C. to 1399 / C. Warren Hollister. 7th ed. Lexington, Mass. : D.C. Heath., c1996. Series title: History of England (D.C. Heath and Company : Seventh edition) ; 1. 18. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Medieval Europe; a short history [by] C. Warren Hollister. New York, Wiley [1964]. 19. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Medieval Europe; a short history [by] C. Warren Hollister. 2d ed. New York, Wiley [1968]. 20. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Medieval Europe: a short history [by] C. Warren Hollister. 3d ed. New York, Wiley [1974]. 21. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Medieval Europe : a short history / C. Warren Hollister. 4th ed. New York : Wiley, c1978. 22. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Medieval Europe : a short history / C. Warren Hollister. 5th ed. New York : Wiley, c1982. 23. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Medieval Europe : a short history / C. Warren Hollister. 6th ed. New York : McGraw-Hill, c1990. 24. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Medieval Europe : a short history / C. Warren Hollister. 7th ed. New York : McGraw-Hill, c1994. 25. DISSERTATION Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The military organization of England under the first three Norman kings, 1066-1135. 1960. 26. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The military organization of Norman England, by C. Warren Hollister. Oxford, Clarendon Press, 1965. 27. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The military organization of Norman England, by C. Warren Hollister. Oxford, Clarendon Press, 1965. 28. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Monarchy, magnates, and institutions in the Anglo-Norman world / C. Warren Hollister. London ; Ronceverte, W. Va., U.S.A. : Hambledon Press, 1986. Series title: History series (Hambledon Press) ; v. 43. 29. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The Norman Conquest and the genesis of English feudalism. [n.p.] 1961. 30. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Odysseus to Columbus: a synopsis of classical and medieval history [by] C. Warren Hollister. New York, Wiley [1974]. 31. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Roots of the western tradition; a short history of the ancient world [by] C. Warren Hollister. New York, Wiley [1966]. 32. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Roots of the Western tradition; a short history of the ancient world [by] C. Warren Hollister. 2d ed. New York, Wiley [1972]. 33. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Roots of the Western tradition : a short history of the ancient world / C. Warren Hollister. 3d ed. New York : Wiley, c1977. 34. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Roots of the Western tradition : a short history of the ancient world / C. Warren Hollister. 4th ed. New York : Wiley, c1982. 35. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Roots of the Western tradition : a short history of the ancient world / C. Warren Hollister. 5th ed. New York : McGraw-Hill, c1991. 36. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- The twelfth-century renaissance. Edited by C. Warren Hollister. New York, Wiley [c1969]. Series title: Major issues in history. 37. Hollister, Charles Warren. The significance of scutage rates in eleventh- and twelfth-century England. [n.p., 1961]. 38. Medieval Europe : a short sourcebook / edited by C. Warren Hollister ... [et al.]. New York : Wiley, c1982. 39. Medieval Europe : a short sourcebook / [edited by] C. Warren Hollister ... [et al.]. 2nd ed. New York : McGraw-Hill, c1992. 40. River through time: the course of Western civilization [by] C. Warren Hollister [and others]. New York, Wiley [1975]. 41. Stipp, John L. The rise and development of Western civilization [by] John L. Stipp, C. Warren Hollister [and] Allen W. Dirrim. New York, Wiley [1967]. 42. Stipp, John L. The rise and development of Western civilization [by] John L. Stipp, C. Warren Hollister [and] Allen W. Dirrim. 2d ed. New York, Wiley [1972]. 43. Stipp, John L. The rise and development of Western civilization John L. Stipp, C. Warren Hollister, Allen W. Dirrim. 2nd ed. New York : Wiley, [c1972]. 44. Stipp, John L. The rise and development of Western civilization; the emergence of man to the present [by] John L. Stipp, C. Warren Hollister [and] Allen W. Dirrim. With the assistance of Harold L. Bauman. New York, Wiley [1969]. 45. Hollister, C. Warren (Charles Warren), 1930- Roots of the Western tradition : a short history of the ancient world / C. Warren Hollister. 6th ed. New York ; London : McGraw-Hill, c1996. 46. Borchard Conference on Anglo-Norman History (1995 : Chateau de la Bretesche) Anglo-Norman political culture and the twelfth-century renaissance : proceedings of the Borchard Conference on Anglo-Norman History, 1995 / edited by C. Warren Hollister. Woodbridge, Suffolk ; Rochester, N.Y. : Boydell Press, 1997. Peter E. Hanff President The International Wizard of Oz Club ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:06:40 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest (first two comments may be redundant -- I sent them before, but don't think they got in.) Doug Silfen: No one seems to have put in the address and ordering information on Oz Magazines 1-3, so -- Hungry Tiger Press, 15 Marcy Str, Bloomfield NJ 07003-3814. Price per issue is $14.95 plus $3 for shipping for one item and $1 for each additional item. (Plus 6% sales tax for NJ residents.) (#1 reprinted a poem of mine (from "Kansas Quarterly," a literary magazine), "Dorothy and the Sequels," and I wrote a poem for the cover of #3, "Emerald Holidays.") Hungry Tiger has also put out some individual publications, including the reprint of Baum's "The Flying Girl and Her Chum" -- ask them for a list. Robin Olderman: "gum (Frances)" -- oogh. Scott Hutchins: "Island continent" is not redundant, although perhaps it ought to be. But Europe, Asia, and Africa; and North and South America continue to be considered five continents, not two. In Oz terms, the question is whether the oceanless borders of the "Tik-Tok" map could continue into lands of any great extent, or whether (as on the Haff-Martin map, and as explicitly stated in "Captain Salt") the ocean closes it off without any noticeable extension. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:01:53 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest map postscript Does anyone remember who it was on the Ozzy Digest who pointed out that the closest Baum came to including a Dreams country (included on the "Tik-Tok" map) in any of his stories, was the reference in "Ozma" to Dorothy as falling asleep and being then "in the land of dreams"? Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:59:29 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Ozzy Digest Hello! I am a new Aunt! My niece Caitlin Nicole was born September 13, 1997! Yes, a new Oz fan! So, I've a few posts to catch up on . . . David Hulan: "The Mating Day" was reprinted in _BBugle_ Winter 1991. The original date is September 1898. All this talk about getting rid of books makes me think of Bradbury's Farenheit (sp?)! And shiver! My, my what a short note from me! I must get back to studying, . . . which is sadly taking away time from my Ozzing :-( oh, well, I always manage to sneak it in somehow! Peace & Love, Bompi ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:16:26 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-97 I imagine Peter Hanff will have already posted this to the Digest, but in case he didn't I'm sorry to say that Warren Hollister, a major Oz fan and member of the IWOC Board, passed away yesterday. I don't know any details. He was also an eminent historian. I'd known him moderately well back in the early '70s, but we'd lost touch since then (it seemed as if every Oz convention I attended was the one he'd miss that year) and it was a great pleasure to renew acquaintance at this year's Ozmopolitan. I didn't know it would be the last time we'd meet. Another note: I just finished reading _Foundation's Fear_, by Gregory Benford, and was interested to note that he uses the term "tiktoks" for the low-grade robots that are used on Trantor. I don't recall Asimov using that term in _Prelude to Foundation_ or _Forward the Foundation_, though it's been long enough since I read either book that I can't be sure. The reason I mention it is that if Benford originated the term then he's probably an Oz fan of sorts (I can't believe that anyone would use the term exactly that way who wasn't), and he might be another person worth contacting for the Oz-on-Charon project. Since he's a professor of physics at UCI, and IIRC you're a student there, Dave, it should be fairly easy for you to get in touch with him. Incidentally, it's one of the better examples I've seen of an author writing a new book in another author's universe. It doesn't read like Asimov, but it's good hard SF in the same mode as Asimov's Foundation books. Mike D.: Amusing start, though not really all that close to Thompson's style in my opinion. If someone else picks it up I'll eventually probably do an installment. Scott H.: >I wonder if there will ever be a HACC Oz film, unless I get to make one. I thought Baum's version of _Patchwork Girl_ followed the book closely enough that it should probably be considered HACC. Though I'll admit that I haven't watched it in a while, and wasn't looking for minor discrepancies. Robert: Not quite sure - it sounds at one point as if you'd read both _Wizard_ and _Ozma_, and at another as if you'd only read _Wizard_. In any case, what you miss by skipping _Land_ is the story of how Ozma became ruler of Oz. It's a good story, but I don't think you need to read it to enjoy _Ozma_, if that's the next one you have available. (And it ought not to be that hard to find _Land_; it's available in several editions from various publishers, though the Books of Wonder hardcover is the nicest. Most decent bookstores should have the Del Rey edition, which is the least expensive. For that matter, most libraries probably have it in some form.) Bear: >David >Bear: Since you're refraining from commenting on false dichotomies, >I'll do the same. > >Were you implying that I presented you with one? Yes. Frequently. Bob S.: > I have heard of a country and western song titled "There Are Tears >In My Ears From Lyin' On My Back On The Floor Cryin' Over You". I can't >attest to the authenticity of that title but maybe that's the fix that >the TW found himself in :-). I remember that song - it goes way back to around 1950, if not earlier. The title I recall is "I've Got Tears in My Ears from Lying on My Back While I Cried in My Bed Over You,", but it was a long time ago and I've heard other versions since then. However, the occasion I spoke of was while Nick was walking down the YBR, so it wouldn't seem to fit his case. Shortish Digest this time. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:35:34 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Algeria In the 9/4 Digest, Stephen Teller comments, Perhaps this is a carryover of the philosophy expressed in the many Horatio Alger books of that time: With pluck and *luck* you will win out at the end. (Emphasis added.) Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Sep 97 14:57:49 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FALSE DICHOTOMY: Bear wrote: >My usage of "false dichotomy" is when someone offers you two choices as >though those were the only two possible. Jellia: I see. Like what happened the other day...Dan has been teaching Milady to play chess, and at one point I heard him say to her, "Don't move there! If you move your knight there I can take your queen with my bishop!" and Milady replied, "Not if you love me, Danny!" >Liberals are infamous for presenting them. :) I don't know -- Conservatives seem to have a knack for them too, like the fundamenalists' assertion that all believers in evolution must be atheists. TO BOB SPARK: I'm afraid "liberal" is a wonderful word that has gotten distorted, mangled, and disfigured by thirty years of right-wing propaganda... TO BOMPI: Congrats on the birth of your niece! OZ MOVIES: It seems to me a bit redundant to talk about putting into the HACC an Oz movie adapted from a book already on the HACC. If it were a movie of an original Oz story it would be different (hasn't happened yet of course.) I admit I can't help harbouring a hope that my sci-fi novel will be on the HACC since Oz characters appear in it, but I suppose it wouldn't since it's not an Oz book per se. :) Also add another to the list of films in which _Over the Rainbow_ is played: _The Glenn Miller Story_ with Jimmy Stewart and June Allyson. AOL: I've been trying to arrange something so that the AOLers who aren't getting the Digest can pluck it off the web, but some of them have E-mailed me to say that they don't *have* web access. So I don't know how to get the Digest to them. Advice, someone? Please??? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 17, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:15:22 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Wizard of Oz Material Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' I'm not aware of any currently available fabrics, although there have been some in the past. I've considered using color xerox iron-on transfers to create pieces for pillows/quilts. I'll pass your inquiry on to the Ozzy Digest in case anyone has other suggestions. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot Webmaster The International Wizard of Oz Club -----Original Message----- From: YG1999@aol.com [SMTP:YG1999@aol.com] Sent: Monday, September 15, 1997 9:52 PM Subject: Wizard of Oz Material Do you know anywhere that I can get material with the Wizard of Oz imprint for my nursery. I am doing the Wizard of Oz theme and other than books and some dolls, I can't find other items to decorate with. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:00:22 -0700 From: mbert@swbell.net Subject: Ozzy Digest Stuff Thank you everyone for your well wishes and words of encouragement. To tell you the truth, I was getting REAL worried about the difference between the story lines of 1939 movie and the first book, but _Ozma_ put a lot of things into perspective...heck, I think I may even be able to watch _Return To Oz_ without being too confused. And even parts of the movie _Wiz_ became clearer... Returned to Borders today for books _Land_ and _Dorothy and the Wizard_...timing my trip so that I could avoid the kiddos trying to by the books. Borders has a good supply of the Del Rey books, but now I am beginning to worry that finding anything after _Glinda of Oz_ may be a problem. ISP Headaches... Don't know what's going on over at AOL. But as for having web access, I think all AOL accounts can access the web, but they need to download Netscape or Internet Explorer in order to do a good job. That little browser of AOL's just doesn't cut it. As far as Delphi merging with MindSpring, I wouldn't worry. I hear that MindSpring is VERY good...a back-bone provider. I would change myself, but I rather enjoy paying for my internet account via the phone bill than with the ol' credit card... ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:20:23 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 9/6 Digest (yes, I am only up to 9/6 in my reading), Jeremy Steadman asks if KIEX should be allowed to join him at Berry. Jeremy, I recommend against it. It has been my experience and observation that female companionship at school -- however delightful -- detracts from the studies. Education should now be your primary interest. If KIEX is *really* interested, she will wait for you. On the subject of coincidences in Oz stories, Nathan DeHoff says, I favor the theory that there is a secret cabal of plotters behind the scenes, trying to maneuver the story principals and Oz-in-general for their own purposes. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:44:22 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-16-97 > > My usage of "false dichotomy" is when someone offers you two choices as > though those were the only two possible. Liberals are infamous for > presenting them. :) It was not a liberal who made up the bumper sticker: "AMERICA, Love It or Leave It." The false dichotomy is that you must approve of everything America does (like go to war in Viet Nam) or you do not love your country. Actually Shakespeare's Brutus was an expert in this sort of dichotomy. In explaining Julius Caesar's assassination he declared: "Who is so vile who would not love his country? If any, speak, for him have I offended!" The implication here being anyone who did not approve of killing Caesar did not love Rome. > > Weekend Regards, Bear (:<) > Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 06:53:38 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-16-97 Good morning (or whatever), I was not familiar with C. Warren Hollister but wish that I had been. What an interesting person he seems to have been. I see, false dichotomies are somewhat akin to "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Re: AOL subscribers without web access. How can that be? And what is the point of subscribing without it? This from L.M. Boyd's daily "Sampler Request": > The Earl of Derby and Sir Charles Bunbury in 1780 raced > horses at Banstead Downs, England. To decide what to call > the race of 3-year-olds, they flipped a coin. Derby won. > If he hadn't, we'd probably have a Kentucky Bunbury. Do you think that Baum knew about Sir Charles? By the way, it is my intention to leave next Sunday (the 21st)and meander up the edge of the North American continent through California's north coast, Oregon and Washington, around the Olympic Peninsula, through some of the San Juan Islands, and back south by a route yet to be determined (but including a side trip to Mount St.Helens). I will be observing the ecosystems, the sunsets, etc. and partaking of vast amounts of seafood along the way. To paraphrase another Californian "You won't have Bob Spark to kick around any more (at least for a couple of weeks)" after next Sunday, so don't do anything interesting while I'm gone. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:44:31 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-16-97 Robin: Glad to hear all's well with you now, but I'm sorry you had to be hospitalized. And had to grade papers instead of reading Oz books. Bear: >David - See, just like capital punishment you and I are substantially in >agreement on capitalism. We'll have to try harder to find something to >disagree about. Nothing is less interesting than someone who always agrees >with you. Hmmm, maybe that is why I prefer cats to dogs! I don't think we have any problem finding areas of disagreement. :-) I think we generally agree on basic principles, but not so much on what their practical implications are. >My usage of "false dichotomy" is when someone offers you two choices as >though those were the only two possible. Liberals are infamous for >presenting them. :) So are conservatives. :-) Mark Anthony: Unfortunately I already traded all my duplicate Oz books to Kieran Miller to help him reconstruct his collection that was burned, so I have nothing to help your friend. I hope others are in better shape. David L.: Do you get unlimited access for the $10.99, or is that for a limited number of hours with extra charges if you go over it? Mine costs $9.95 a month (and they take credit cards), but I only get 5 hours for that, and it's $2 an hour for extra time. However, I've never gone over the 5 hours, since I use it mostly for E-mail. And actually, if _all_ you want is E-mail, I understand there are services that will provide that free. >BOW Books: >I'm starting to get the series from them, so far I've bought Road, >Scarecrow, Patchwork Girl, and Dorothy and the Wizard. I have a few >questions about the books. Are the dust covers that are on them the >original covers? They look completely different from the R&L books in >the library that is near me. Also, were the pages in Road tinted in >different colors in the original R&L edition? Peter Glassman may answer you on the covers; I believe (but am not sure) that the cover illustrations are the same as on the first editions, but that the spines of the DJs are different. The original _Road_ did indeed have tinted pages. Tyler: >David and Bear: >FYI, the environmental destruction in "The tragedy of the commons" took >place on public (government owned) land, and not privately held land. In >other words, people were not so eager to damage things that they owned. Public, but not government owned. That was the point, which you (and a number of other conservatives I've known) seem to have missed. The characteristic of a "common" is that _nobody_ - including the government - owns it, so there's no regulation of its use. Nowadays it's rare for land to be a "common" any more, but air and most water still fall into that category. Because air and most water move, it's virtually impossible to think of a plausible means of allowing private ownership of them; only governments have the scope to do anything significant about protecting them from destruction, and in many cases even governments don't have enough scope to do everything necessary. Canada can't do much about acid rain coming from smokestacks in the US Midwest, for instance, nor could Scandinavia and Central Europe dodge the fallout from Chernobyl. (Yes, the latter was a government-run facility. Saying that only governments can do something about a problem doesn't mean that a particular government is going to do the right thing about it.) Peter H.: Thanks for the bibliography of Hollister's work. I'm going to have to try to track down some of those books; they sound very interesting. I remember a conversation I had with him back around 1970 in which he said that it had always been an ambition of his to start a group like the White Boar Society (which defends Richard III against the charge that he was responsible for his nephews' murders) to defend Henry I against the charge that he was responsible for William Rufus's death. But that his efforts foundered on the fact that hardly anybody realized that Henry I had ever been accused of such responsibility. (Or knew much about Henry I at all, even though he was one of the best kings England ever had.) Bompi: Congratulations on being a new aunt! Thanks for the info on "The Mating Day". I certainly have that _Bugle_, and I'm sure I read it at the time, but it must not have made much of an impression on me. Dave: >AOL: >I've been trying to arrange something so that the AOLers who aren't getting >the Digest can pluck it off the web, but some of them have E-mailed me to >say that they don't *have* web access. So I don't know how to get the >Digest to them. Advice, someone? Please??? The AOL problem seems to be associated with sending large files to large mailing lists. You could probably get the Digest to the AOLers by sending it to them one at a time, but that would be pretty tedious for you, and you work hard enough on the Digest as it is. As a suggestion, maybe several of us could "adopt" AOL members and forward the Digest to them. I've been doing this for Joyce Odell ever since this latest problem appeared, and I wouldn't mind doing it for three or four other AOL people if I had their addresses. If a few other people on the Digest would volunteer to do the same you could parcel out the AOLers among them. Then any time AOL started blocking Digests each subscriber would have a non-AOL Digest member they could notify and get forwarded Digests until AOL got its act together again. (It seems to be something that comes and goes.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:30:07 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-16-97 David L.: I sure wish my family would switch to a different ISP (not AOL)! At school, of course, I have a system in place (LAN) and don't have to deal with it, but at home that is not the case. (I suggested to my family that we create a LAN with the two computers we have online in our house, but my suggestion was dismissed as unnecessary, too expensive, and generally more trouble than it's worth. Oh, well; I don't claim to know anything about computers, really, anyway.) C. Warren Hollister: An impressive list of writings! (Both in subject and number--though in the latter category he can't possibly compare to my late hero, Isaac Asimov . . .) "Island Continent" When I called them "redundant" I meant to say "oxymoronic". Just for what that's worth (not much). Speaking of Isaac Asimov: So someone's tried to continue the _Foundation_ series? I'll have to find it somewhere and read it, probably to be disappointed--but we'll see. Spaced out as always, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:29:17 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest It's sad to hear of the death of Warren Hollister. I have pleasant memories of chatting with him and Edith at Winkie and Ozmapolitan conventions, and of reading his articles in the "Bugle." I enjoyed the juvenile fantasy, "The Moons of Mere," he and Judy Pike wrote together, and was sorry that no sequels appeared. I realize, though, from Peter's list of his books, that there is a large number of history books he wrote that I could probably enjoy looking up, and will try to do so. David Levitan: I think in each case the BoW reprint has the same dust jacket as the first edition of the Oz book involved. With the later books, there weren't any revisions of the dust jackets, but some of the earlier ones (notably "Ozma" and "Emerald City") had different artwork done for the jackets at different times. Yes, "Road" in the first edition had different colors of paper as the journey went along. David Hulan: I don't recall "tiktoks" as a term in Asimov, either, but Greg Benford might perhaps be influenced by John Sladek's very funny and very grim "Tik-Tok," a novel about a robot that behaves in very unasimovian ways. I'm not sure if it ever came out in an American edition? (I have an English copy). Then again, Benford's in-laws are Poul and Karen Anderson, long-time Oz fans (Poul published a short story, "Project Ozma," in "F&SF" a good many years ago), and I think they workshop their mss around the family sometimes. Dave Hardenbrook: For getting the Digests to AOLers -- if you'll assign me one AOLer to partner with, I'd be happy to forward my copies to that one, and if other people will volunteer to be similarly assigned, we should be able to get them all their copies without triggering any spam-barriers. (I keep about two weeks' worth of Digests in my e-mail, erasing at the back as new ones come. If it's someone who can receive material as an enclosure, I also keep most of a month's worth of Digests in the word processing program.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:45:13 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-16-97 Hey everybody I've been looking at Jeff Lenberg's Encyclopedia of Animated cartoons and found the following. Has anyone seen them to confirm or deny potential Oz association: Dynomutt--"The Wizard of Ooze" The Karate Kid--"Over the Rainbow" The Snorks--"The Wizard of Ice" Kangaroo (Saturday Supercade)--"The Tail of a Cowardly Lion" The Smurfs--"The Littlest Giant" I was saddened to hear of Warren's passing, since I saw him at the convention, but we never talked, though I had wanted to. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:33:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-16-97 MarK: There's a Wizard of Oz on Ice soundtrack? Was that only sold at the show? I missed it when it came to Indy. Katherine told me she's hyperactive with ADS but takes no medication because she only has a mild case. Everything she described is something I experience. That's scary, I suppose. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:30:55 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Newsgroup RFD Posted Hi, I would like to announce to the Ozzy Digest that the RFD for the Ozzy newsgroup, named rec.arts.books.oz has now been posted to several newsgroups, including news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, and rec.arts.books.children. The discussion is currently taking place in news.groups. -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsites;home ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:45:48 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 Craig wrote: >There also is a high degree of probability that it's caused by >increasing concentrations of CO2 and other "greenhouse gases" that have >been emitted since the beginning of the industrial revolution. Not such a high degree of probability as that. The world is not as warm now as it was 1,000 years ago, and it's also much cooler than it was for 99% of prehistoric times. We're still on the trailing edge of the last ice age, and temperatures took a distinct dip about 500 years ago. Which is not to say that pollution is a good thing, or even that it should be ignored. But the earth has been warming and cooling itself for billions of years without human help. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:58:16 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 Stephen J. Teller wrote: >Did "tin cans" in the 1890s rust? Tin-plated iron cans rust like the very devil once the tin is breached. Much faster than plain iron. Gordon Birrell wrote: >Does anyone know what a zuzu wheel was? I have a vague notion I've encountered a "zuzu" somewhere or other in the last 49 years.... >And if "nabisco" was a common noun, what did it mean? A generic square >cracker? It certainly is not a common noun: it stands for "National Biscuit Company", and if EC were published today, Nabisco's lawyers would be screaming bloody murder. I'm pretty certain that "a nabisco" would refer to a saltine, which makes sense for the wheelbarrow. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:32:05 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Spark - The dictionary definition is certainly interesting. I guess it demonstrated how far we have drifted or that it really isn't an operational definition. Dave - I would be remiss in passing on this: >TO BOB SPARK: I'm afraid "liberal" is a wonderful word that has gotten distorted, mangled, and disfigured by thirty years of right-wing propaganda... I think the actions of liberals are what have changed the definition not the words of conservatives. Who pays attention to them? By the way, I think tomorrow is the anniversary of the signing of our Constitution. Can you imagine what our founding fathers would think if they could visit 1997? By the way, if you haven't read the Constitution and Bill of Rights lately, it can be pretty shocking. Dave - Until the AOL problem is solved, why don't you set up a list of "Digest Pals." Make a list of those not on AOL and assign one or more AOLers to each of us. Then we can forward the Digest to them. If some aren't willing to act as relays they can let you know and you can distribute them to others who are. I'll be happy to take some. Our founders sure had some quaint ideas. And now, back to Oz. Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:33:25 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz BCF: I forgot. Are we still on _Emerald City_ or _Patchwork Girl_? Bob: In the current climate, the words "liberal" and "conservative" are used differently than their dictionary definitions. It's a shame we picked those words, since they really don't mean what we mean them to mean (Does that make sense?) Under those terms, Bear and I would definitely be considered liberals, but the current definitions are a little haywire. ISP: The only thing keeping me on CompuServe is the ENS, or Executive News Service. C. Warren Hollister: Another great one has crossed over into Oz. Very sad :-( But all is not lost as a new face enters the world. Congrats Lisa, on your new niece Caitlin. The cycle of life continues. :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:05:19 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Nobility (Now up to the 9/7-8 Digest.) Welcome to Megan Jade Mock Noble! Blessings on you and your family. (Isn't there a typo in the name on your birth certificate? I would think that your name should be "Megan Jade Real Noble.") Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:38:08 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-97 >I think Saratoga chips might still be around, but I'm not sure who makes >them. There are, or were just a year or two ago, chips available under that name. The potato chip as we know it (and that's "potato crisp" outside the U.S.) was invented at a resort in Saratoga, N.Y., when a diner complained that his french fries ("chips" outside the U.S.) were too thick. The chef sliced a potato into thin wafers and fried them up, intending them as a sarcastic rejoinder, but they made a big hit. I do not know whether the contemporary "Saratoga Chips" are an old brand name surviving to this date, or an old common name being used as a modern brand name. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 15:35:29 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things AOL: At the suggestion of some Digest members, I am establishing a "buddy system" on the Digest...I am requesting that Digest members "adopt" one AOLer to send the Digest to until AOL squares away whatever problem they're having. I will maintain a list of who is forwarding the Digest to whom. Here are the 33 AOLers we need to cover. Please E-mail me stating which member you are willing to be a "Digest buddy" for...If I don't get enough responses I'll ask for willing members to help two AOLers each, but I hope I won't have to... Lenth1@aol.com Saroz@aol.com BillyOzFan@aol.com OZZILEE@aol.com HermBieber@aol.com DennisLiv@aol.com jodel@aol.com RMorris306@aol.com GEvans1127@aol.com ZMaund@aol.com Ozisus@aol.com Haljim3@aol.com YELLOBRKOZ@aol.com BuckyB12@aol.com CrNoble@aol.com BOZZYBEAR@aol.com TheBBugle@aol.com JoelHarris@aol.com DianaBoban@aol.com Ozozozoz@aol.com VALEYARD1@aol.com BluOrchid2@aol.com KABUMPO16@aol.com RRuback@aol.com CWingerson@aol.com BabyBengal@aol.com Saundersrl@aol.com Ozmama@aol.com JMccull304@aol.com OZMA1024@aol.com Haldehoff@aol.com SsSuperMom@aol.com DBaker4571@aol.com OTHER QUICK REMARKS: Someone E-mailed me asking to use my picture of the Emerald City on my web page on the cover of their school yearbook. I'm of course flattered, but I'm wondering if I should sell it to her instead of just handing it out (I'd *like* to get paid for my artistic endevours for once)...Advice, anyone? All these distortions of words like "liberal" and "conservative" and other words is one reason why I refuse to label myself. Also, I saw a book in the bookstore that was dictionary of fantasy characters (apparently a follow-up to a similar book on sci-fi beings). The book contained one token Ozite -- The Sawhorse of all people... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 18 - 19, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:12:08 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Earl - I don't think KIEX is like a unh, girl friend. And, >I favor the theory that there is a secret cabal of plotters behind the scenes, trying to maneuver the story principals and Oz-in-general for their own purposes. Of course, isn't that true everywhere? Steve - >It was not a liberal who made up the bumper sticker: "AMERICA, Love It or Leave It." The false dichotomy is that you must approve of everything America does (like go to war in Viet Nam) or you do not love your country. Another excellent example of a false dichotomy. Is this single glaring example, and certainly not one most thinking conservatives (by the way this is not an oxymoron) would subscribe to, meant to balance all of those from the left? Invoking the "war in Viet Nam" used to have considerable cache. Does it still? By the way wasn't it the Viet Nam Police Action? I don't think we ever declared war. Ah yes, the stage was set by Kennedy, Johnson knowingly kicked it off and Nixon ended it. One thing we can thank him for. Hey, you brought it up. Spark - You are about to travel through my part of the country. I'm going up there in October. For seafood, don't miss the Oregon Oyster Company in downtown Portland. And if you can make it to Ocean Park, WA, near Long Beach, one of the world's finest restaurants is The Ark. In the meantime I am also leaving on Sunday for 11 days in Canada and New England aboard the Royal Princess. Think how quiet it will be without Grouchy Bear and Spark around. Now if David takes a vacation it will be really quiet. >And actually, if _all_ you want is E-mail, I understand there are services that will provide that free. Juno is an example. Jeremy - Someone has been continuing the Foundation Series (the first three) for years. Asimov finally started it and others have continued. I'll send you a list if you can't find one. Ruth "????? Said The Tik-Tok Man" is what I remember. By John Sladek. I don't own it. John - Here, here! The problem is your government and 33 others are planning to sign an agreement to reduce certain emissions and take other measures to prevent something that is yet to be demonstrated, that is "global warming." Unfortunately 132 other countries including Mexico, China, and Russia aren't signing and won't comply. We should ask ourselves what effect will this have? One is that it will in effect place a tax on U.S. companies not felt by other companies in much of the world. What will that do? Drive more businesses and jobs into third world countries so those companies can compete. Can you think of others? Dave - What if all of us offer to take the same person? It would be much simpler if you would find out who is willing and just assign names to each person. I will be happy to take some with the constraint that I will be gone for 11 days starting Sunday. However, if you assign me some I will take the responsibility of asking some one to do my people while I am gone. And don't worry about labels, you know who you are! I myself am P.C....... Of course that means Pretty Conservative. For better communications, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:43:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-97 Bob Spark: I really envy you your meander. If you get to Multnomah Falls, and you well may, ask how to get to the smaller but more intimate Horsetail Falls. It's my favorite waterfall. You'll see why, if you get to it. It's one of the many Portland, OR area falls. I'd also suggest a morning voyage on one of the ferries. The one that carried me through the San Juans had a very good buffet and some more-than-very-good sightseeing. There's a website for the ferries somewhere out there in cyberspace. Try San Juan Islands or Victoria, B.C. You may not want to go to Victoria (although it's a wonderful place to go and does have some good bookshops and terrific tea...), but the website should have links to the ferries site. (Both B.C. and WA) In Portland, you'll end up at Powell's for books, but also check out the shop next to Jake's. Jake's is a famous downtown seafood place. I think the shop is the Northwest Book Shop, or something like that. If you want more info, just e-mail me. Warren: I'll certainly miss him. Warren was dear to many of us, and I was quite fond of him. For those expressing interest in his books, go for it. They're well written. The fiction is fun, and the history is fascinating for those of us with a penchant for things medieval and/or Plantagenet. I don't know a thing about his medieval military stuff, but I certainly do like the Hollister material that I've read so far. Bright man. Good scholar who was considered an authority by many in his field. Good writer. Good friend, too. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:18:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-97 > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:33:27 -0500 (EST) > From: sahutchi@iupui.edu > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-16-97 > > MarK: There's a Wizard of Oz on Ice soundtrack? Was that only sold at > the show? I missed it when it came to Indy. yep only available at the show as far as i know try turner though iknow they have the video and soundtrack for wiz of oz in concert with jewel as dorthey hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:35:48 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-97 I was certainly saddened to hear of the death of C. Warren Hollister. I remember at a South Winkie convention several years ago he was very gracious and, in fact, took several photographs of the costume contest, including one of my daughter, who just happened to win that year. He was certainly fortunate to have resided in Santa Barbara, which is about as near as you can get to heaven on earth. Whenever I went to UCSB I always intended to look him up, but I was only there in the summer. Sigh. Ruth wrote: "I think in each case the BoW reprint has the same dust jacket as the first edition of the Oz book involved." The jackets for _Wizard_, _Land_, and _Ozma_ are not like the 1st editions. The jackets for the rest of the series are (except for the spine). Re: Announcement of Oz newsgroup I'll have to look this up! Bear wrote: "Can you imagine what our founding fathers would think if they could visit 1997? By the way, if you haven't read the Constitution and Bill of Rights lately, it can be pretty shocking." It certainly can be shocking, since the Constitution written by our founding fathers recognized slavery. Thank goodness a Republican president amended it. Re: "I think Saratoga chips might still be around, but I'm not sure who makes them." It's my understanding Saratoga chips was the original name for potato chips. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:22:36 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Steve: IMHO, the bumper sticker meant that if you do not love this country in general, and in the principles it stands for, then you are free to depart. The sticker (and those who designed it) did not mean that you must necessarily agree with everything we do; it instead criticized those who attacked the very foundation of this country as the most evil, disgusting place on earth. Yet, they did not seem eager to go and live in the other countries that they praised. Dupes: At present, I have no duplications my own self. Sorry :-( Jeremy: On the whole, it's probably a little much to create a LAN in your own home, unless of course you hire Dogbert to be yous Network Administrator... :-) As far as I know, nobody has officially tried to continue the Foundation Series. However, I believe that the last book, _Forward the Foundation_, was not entirely written by Asimov. Too many things seem to be different from what he usually writes. I had heard that there was some "Foundation material" left by Asimov, and IMHO somebody else took that material and fleshed it out. BCF: Since I am still not entirely clear on which book is the BCF, I'll make a couple of comments on _Patchwork Girl_ anyway. :-) This is the first of the FF to take place entirely inside Oz. Also, it gives us some pretty strong hints that there has been aging in the recent past in Oz. Dr. Pipt tells Bungle that someday Ojo will grow to be a man. He would not have said this if total and complete un-aging had been around for centuries. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:54:10 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Dave Hulan: My ISP charges $10.99 for unlimited service. There is also a plan that if you pay ahead for six months, it will cost you $9.99 a month, also unlimited service. They have excellent service, and you can get to technical support almost all the time during buisiness hours. Problems are usually fixed within 15 minutes after they are supported. That is what local ISPs do. -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsites;home ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:29:53 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-97 All, All in all I'm rather glad to be absenting myself from the digest for a couple of weeks. Perhaps this "Liberal"-"Conservative" nonsense will sort itself out. It's difficult to carry on a conversation with someone whose definitions are not those to be found in dictionaries. There is a tactic in debating known as defining your opponent before he defines himself. Forces him to spend the debate denying that he EVER beat his wife. Again it reminds me of Alice's conversation with Humpty Dumpty. After my return I will be more than happy to "adopt" an AOL'er or two. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:21:12 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-97 Re AOL vs. Netscape: I downloaded Netscape on my computer (when I was using AOL) a long time ago. My father and sister, however, think AOL's browser is fine . . . Liberals/conservatives: I was told that fifty years ago, the positions were rversed--that liberal tenets were held by conservatives then or something like that. For whatever that's worth. Yours somehow, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:59:26 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-97 > From: mbert@swbell.net Borders has a good supply of the Del Rey books, but now I am > beginning to worry that finding anything after _Glinda of Oz_ may be a > problem. > IWOC has many of the Del Rey Thompson paperback titles for sale. All of the last Thompson titles and all the post-Thompson titles are available from either BoW or IWOC or both. > ====================================================================== > > By the way, it is my intention to leave next Sunday (the 21st)and > meander up the edge of the North American continent through California's > north coast, Oregon and Washington, around the Olympic Peninsula, > through some of the San Juan Islands, and back south by a route yet to > be determined (but including a side trip to Mount St.Helens). I will be > observing the ecosystems, the sunsets, etc. and partaking of vast > amounts of seafood along the way. > > Bob Spark > If you can get up to Victoria B.C. I strongly recommend it. It is one of my favorite cities. BTW while in Portland do not fail to go to Powell's Bookstore; it is one of the wonders of the world! Thakn you, Peter, for the piece on Warren. I had known him for thirty years at Oz conventions and had once visited his home. Most readers of the digest will not know that he owned the pencil with which Baum wrote WONDERFUL WIZARD with Baums note that it was the pencil he used for "Emerald City" (which was the working title of WWOO.) We will miss him very much. Steve T ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:40:36 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Lisa Bompiani: Like David Hulan, I'd completely forgotten "The Mating Day" (a pretty good indication of its degree of memorability), but I went back and re-read it in the "Bugle," and would certainly agree with you that it's a dumb story. Baum's South Sea islanders don't seem either plausible or interesting (not even to him?). But (fortunately) Baum's reputation isn't based on his poorer stories. Bob Spark: Amusing information about Sir Charles Bunbury. Oscar Wilde might have been likely to know about him -- Baum probably less likely, I'd think. // "The Flying Girl" and "The Flying Girl and Her Chum" probably aren't on anyone's list of Best Baum, either, but they're more fun than "The Mating Day," and they have a good deal of historical interest, both for the portrait of aviation at the time, and for Baum's ideas about what the future of aviation would be. (He guessed wrong on the likelihood of personal planes as a major form of transportation. I think as late as the 50s -- I remember an example in a Heinlein juvenile -- writers were guessing that the "family plane" would someday replace the "family car." I think at this point that speculation has pretty much dropped out.) Dave Hardenbrook: I'll be pairing with Robin Olderman (Ozmama@aol.com) to forward her the Digests until AOL is accepting the group mailing again. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:50:36, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-97 Dave: I would be glad to send digests to -DianaBoban@aol.com-. We have been chatting, and I have already been sending her digests anyway. Let me know if I can send others too. Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:35:02 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-97 Robert: Oz books after _Glinda_ (the last Baum) are harder to get and more expensive than the Baums, since those are the only ones available in the Del Rey mass PB format (or the cheap versions that Wal-Mart had available a year or so ago, and may still), but most of them are available. The IWOC has the first nine Thompsons in Del Rey trade PB (bigger than the Baums, but not as big as the originals) for $6 each or all nine for $50, plus S&H of $3 for the first item and $1 for each additional one, so you could order all nine for $61. Order from International Wizard of Oz Club, P.O. Box 266, Kalamazoo, MI 49004-0266. They also have _Speedy_ and _Wishing Horse_ (my two favorite Thompsons) in hardcover for $20 each, with color plates, and _Silver Princess_, _Handy Mandy_, _Ozoplaning_, _Shaggy Man_, and _Hidden Valley_ for $8 each in PB or $16 HC (except no HC of _Ozoplaning_). All these are full-size. These books are by and large available only in limited quantities; the Del Rey Thompsons, in particular, won't be available once the current supply is gone. Books of Wonder (toll free number 800-835-4315) offers a HC of _Royal Book_ (the first Thompson) with color plates for $22.95, paperbacks of _Captain Salt_, _Handy Mandy_, _Silver Princess_, and _Ozoplaning_ for $12.95 each or $49.95 for all four, hardcovers of _Wonder City_, _Scalawagons_, and _Lucky Bucky_ for $24.95 each, paperbacks of _Magical Mimics_ and _Shaggy Man_ for $12.95 each, and _Merry-Go-Round_ for $24.95 HC or $12.95 PB. S&H is extra; how much depends on the cost of the order. The BoW books are generally available at Borders as well. All are full size. That's about it for the availability of post-Baum FF books. Four Thompsons - _Yellow Knight_, _Pirates_, _Purple Prince_, and _Ojo_ - are not currently available new. They did appear in a small Del Rey printing at one point, but you'd probably have better luck (at considerable cost, though) finding copies of the original R&L printings through used-book dealers. Herm Bieber (hermbieber@aol.com) and Robin Olderman (robino@tenet.edu) from the Digest are both dealers with very fair prices. (The IWOC has been making noises about reprinting _Purple Prince_ in HC similar to their editions of _Speedy_ and _Wishing Horse_, but I don't know where that stands at present. Maybe Peter Hanff or Robin Olderman or Jane Albright or one of the other Board members on the Digest can tell us.) I know all AOL accounts can access the Web if they're using a Macintosh or Windows 95; I don't know if those running other operating systems can do it, never having run AOL through anything but Mac or Win 95. Jeremy: >So someone's tried to continue the _Foundation_ series? I'll have to >find it somewhere and read it, probably to be disappointed--but we'll >see. Apparently Janet Asimov agreed to let Benford, Greg Bear, and David Brin write a new trilogy in the Foundation universe. Benford's is the first one, and as I said is a good SF novel, though he says himself that he wasn't trying to copy Asimov's style, that it's a Benford novel in Asimov's universe. This trilogy is set between _Forward the Foundation_ and _Foundation_ chronologically. (To some extent I think it overlaps FtF; I haven't read the latter since 1991, so I don't remember it in detail.) Ruth: I didn't realize that the Andersons are now Benford's in-laws. I haven't seen any of them in donkey's years; I guess both Greg and Astrid must have been divorced from the spouses they had the last I heard? Bear: >I think the actions of liberals are what have changed the definition not >the words of conservatives. Who pays attention to them? A lot more people than pay attention to the words of liberals, or ever moderates, from my observations. Most of what you describe as liberal doctrine isn't; it's straw-man stuff that conservative ideologues attribute to them. But speaking of the meaning of "liberal" changing, the meaning of "conservative" has changed just as much. If it hadn't, the term "conservative revolution" would be an oxymoron. (And the relationship between conservatives and conservationists wouldn't be that of two armed camps.) Tyler: >BCF: >I forgot. Are we still on _Emerald City_ or _Patchwork Girl_? We're on _Emerald City_ for the rest of this week, and move on to _Sea Fairies_, not _Patchwork Girl_, on Monday. Right, Dave? Dave: >Someone E-mailed me asking to use my picture of the Emerald City on >my web page on the cover of their school yearbook. I'm of course >flattered, but I'm wondering if I should sell it to her instead of >just handing it out (I'd *like* to get paid for my artistic endevours >for once)...Advice, anyone? I don't think you're likely to get paid much by a school yearbook - they rarely have budgets for that sort of thing. You might ask something nominal like $10 or $20 and get it. But it's your call. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:39:13 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy digest Hi, I recieved this message from someone who visited my website and I don't know how to answer her question. Can anybody help her? Thanks a lot. Send all replies to her address, which is mentioned below. ___________ Name: Marilyn E-mail: biggdogg@ameritech.net About two years ago I attended a economy class in college. We were given an copy of an article that touched on the similarities of the 1900 "The Wizard of Oz" story and the economy and government of the U.S. I was wondering if you would have heard of such an article or study and where I could read up on this issue again. Thank you Marilyn "LittleMARE" _________________________ -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsites;home ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:19:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest I received the following email via my website. If anyone can help this person out, please contact him via personal email. I don't think he is on the digest. Thanks! Jim Whitcomb of ... Jim's "Wizard of Oz" Website URL: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/6396/ From: FISHNDARK@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wizard of Oz books Copyright 1907 Hi, Over the years,my mom has collected several of the wizard of oz books which appear to be in pretty good condition. She has asked me to find out if they are of any value, because she has been thinking of selling them to make college donations for her grandkids. Could you please direct me to anywhere that I might be able to find out the relative value of these books?? She has the following books: 1. The Wizard of Oz copyright 1903 2. Ozma of Oz copyright 1907 3. Dorothy and The Wizard of Oz copyright 1908 4. The Road to Oz copyright 1909 5. The purple Prince of Oz copyright 1932 6. Pirates in Oz copyright 1931 7. The Gnome King of Oz copyright 1927 8. The Giant horse of Oz copyright 1928 9. Several Mother Goose books, and some raggedy Ann books copyright 1920 &1930 If you know of some way that I could find out this information, I would Greatly appreciate it. Thanks for your time! Brian ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Sep 97 15:26:19 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things AOL "BUDDIES": So far only five people have said they will take part, and two of them are going on vacation! Come on guys! As they say in the Army: "It's better to volunteer than to be drafted." :) :) :) ASIMOV AND OZ: I gather this _Forward the Foundation_ somewhat parallels _The Royal Book of Oz_ in that it purports to be by the great man himself, but in fact was adapted by someone else from notes Asimov left behind. OZ CHESS: The recent PBS program on "Chess Kids" has revitalized my interest in chess, so I thought I'd share this idea with the Digest (Maybe Jane will want to put it in the Oz Gazette as a follow-up to the "Oz Playing Cards" article). I've always wanted to have a chess set patterned after my favorite fairyland, but I don't know how to sculpt, so I decided to create this project that any other chess-playing Oz fans can duplicate. First take drawings of various Oz characters (either your own or from the books) and with a photocopier (I suggest going to a stationary store like Kinko's where you can be sure of getting high-quality copies) make duplicates of the pictures, reducing them to such a size that they will fit easily on a chessboard without crowding each other. Also be sure to make the "minor" pieces a little smaller than the kings and queens and the pawns shorter still (maybe 1/2 the height of the kings). Color the photocopied pictures (The white pieces should have light colors and the black pieces dark ones), then with paper cement mount the photocopies on cardboard or artists' mounting board, allow to dry overnight, and cut out the figures. Be sure to cut out tabs in the base which can be folded back so that the figures will stand on thier own. (Another possibility is to mount them on blocks of wood.) Here is a suggested "line-up" for the chess pieces, although one need not strictly adhere to this scheme ( I myself don't! :) ) -- White King: The Wizard White Queen: Ozma White Bishops: Dorothy, Jellia Jamb White Knights: Trot riding Cowardly Lion, Betsey riding Hank White Rooks: Tik-Tok, Sir Hokus White Pawns: Toto, Eureka, Wogglebug, Bungle, Button-Bright, Cap'n Bill, Woozy, Frogman Black King: Rinkitink Black Queen: Glinda Black Bishops: Scarecrow, Scraps Black Knights: Randy riding Kabumpo, Planetty riding Thun Black Rooks: Tin Woodman, Captain Fyter Black Pawns: Good Witch of the North, Reera, Aurah, Audah, Aujah, Ork, Ann Soforth, Polychrome Note that I've tried to make logical assignments of pieces to characters -- Royals are the kings and queens, humans riding quadropeds are knights, "armored" (i.e. military and/or metallic) characters are rooks, and the remaining "large" pieces are bishops. Also note that the white characters are Emerald City denizens, and the black pieces are folks from the Ozian provinces (or even elsewhere in Nonestica). All the same, you might want to draw in a silhouette of the standard "Staunton" representation of each piece, to more readily identify them to a non-Oz fan. And as I say, one can use a different "cast of characters" if they wish. [The Digest members may have guessed that I personally use Dan for the white king and Zim for the black king, but for the example for the Gazette, I wanted to keep it limited to FF characters, and I also didn't want to be accused once more of "ramming _That Ozzy Feeling_ down people's throats", though I know I will be anyway. :) ] BCF: Tyler wrote: >Since I am still not entirely clear on which book is the BCF, I'll make a >couple of comments on _Patchwork Girl_ anyway. :-) We start discussing _Sea Fairies_ Monday... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 20 - 22, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:54:38 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Well I was in a bookstore (surprise) and opened a book and the blurb read: "Amnesia Moon, Lethem's second novel, is the Wizard of Oz remade as road noir." Well, I thought it was worth a try. Anyone read it? Salizzoni said. "Indeed, AOL has made it clear that they recognize and respect that you have chosen to be CompuServe customers for specific reasons, and they intend to do everything they can to continue to serve your needs." Pricing will remain the same too, with CompuServe's plan for a flat rate becoming an option for CSi members starting Oct. 1 as promised. How big can your personal Web page be? The definitive answer, straight from those who know at CSi, is that 5 MB of storage space are available to each account. The specific reasons are low cost, great features and service. Think about it AOLers. You can still join us on Compuserve and avoid all the AOLisms. If you are interested, email me and I will have them send you the package. And no, I don't own any stock in either company. I wouldn't mention all this except almost everyone I know who is on AOL is unhappy with it and many have changed. Compuservatively, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:23:41 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest stuff X-Authentication-warning: mail1.geocities.com: wht2b6e05.resnet.iup.edu [144.80.104.94] didn't use HELO protocol On the Oz Chess Set: Sounds like a neat idea. It might be interesting to have one side made up of Oz villains. On AOL: I would be glad to forward Digests to someone on AOL, but I don't have anyone in particular in mind. How about an assignment? New Addition To My Webpage: I just uploaded a page on the former Nome King, Ruggedo the Rough. If you get a chance, look at it, and tell me what you think. It's at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ruggedo.html -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff vovat@geocities.com or lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "I'm having a wonderful time, but I'd rather be whistling in the dark." ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:03:08 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-97 Bear: >By the way wasn't it the Viet Nam Police Action? I don't >think we ever declared war. Ah yes, the stage was set by Kennedy, Johnson >knowingly kicked it off and Nixon ended it. One thing we can thank him >for. Hey, you brought it up. We didn't ever declare war, but it was never called the Viet Nam Police Action, either. That was Korea. It was always called the Viet Nam War. And one must point out that while Kennedy set the stage and Johnson kicked it off, it was a war under a Democratic president for three years and under Nixon for five before he gave up. > Now if David takes a vacation it will be really quiet. I was gone for a while in August. That's all you're going to be rid of me for some time to come, except for the odd weekend. (Unless, of course, I get another lucrative consulting contract that takes me out of town...) Robin: > In Portland, you'll end up at Powell's for books, >but also check out the shop next to Jake's. Jake's is a famous downtown >seafood place. The restaurant I remember in Portland is one that offered a 64-ounce steak, and if you could eat it you could get another one free, provided you ate all of it. I don't know if it's still there, but I well remember eating there the one time I was in Portland in '76. (That was 1976 for those of you who think I'm Really Antient.) I had a 16-oz. steak that was quite enough for me. Tyler: I don't know whether Asimov wrote _Forward the Foundation_ entirely by himself or not, but he was still alive when it was published, so even if he didn't it wasn't like attributing _Royal Book_ to Baum Bob Spark: >There is a tactic in debating known as defining your opponent before he >defines himself. Forces him to spend the debate denying that he EVER >beat his wife. Yeah, that's what the "conservatives" have done to the "liberals" over the past couple of decades, when the former have dominated the media (despite their whining that they don't). Ruth: >(He guessed wrong on the likelihood of >personal planes as a major form of transportation. I think as late as the >50s -- I remember an example in a Heinlein juvenile -- writers were >guessing that the "family plane" would someday replace the "family car." I >think at this point that speculation has pretty much dropped out.) I can remember the articles in _Mechanix Illustrated_ and _Popular Science_ and allied publications about the "family plane," or more commonly the plane with retractable wings that could double as a car, in the late '40s and early '50s. I've been rereading my Rick Brant books recently (my candidate for the best-written "boys' book" series from modern America), and Rick spends a lot of time with his airplane. Dave: >AOL "BUDDIES": >So far only five people have said they will take part, and two of them >are going on vacation! Come on guys! As they say in the Army: "It's >better to volunteer than to be drafted." :) :) :) I'll take on more than the four I volunteered for until Bob and Bear get back from vacation. >ASIMOV AND OZ: >I gather this _Forward the Foundation_ somewhat parallels >_The Royal Book of Oz_ in that it purports to be by the >great man himself, but in fact was adapted by someone else >from notes Asimov left behind. As I said, _Forward the Foundation_ appeared while Asimov was still alive (in 1991). _Foundation's Fear_, which I was mentioning, doesn't purport to be by Asimov, but only written with his widow's approval. Besides, Baum left no notes for _Royal Book_. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:21:51 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-97 Everbody, I have to tell you how embarrassed I am. If you remember, in the post of the 19th, David Levithan had a post from a "Marilyn" asking about an article having to do with economic theory and Baum. Since I had downloaded both of those articles from someone's FAQs, I thought I'd just foreward them to her. Unbeknownst to me, I had an article on erectile disfunction mislabled as something to do with Baum, so I proceded to send that to her. Upon realizing my mistake, I sent her the two correct articles along with my apologies but boy, am I redfaced. Bear, Robin, and Steve T. Thanks tremendously for all your information. I doubt that I will be able to visit all the places that you have mentioned on this trip, but I do tend to vacation in that area from time to time, so I'm sure that I will check them out in the future. Curious, Bear, I have been toying with the idea of spending a night somewhere around Long Beach. I have been there before, staying at the town of Long Beach and visiting friends who were camp hosting at Ft. Canby. Great oysters in the area, but I have heard that there is some problem now having to do with El Nino. We shall see. Since I am leaving early Sunday morning, this is probably my last post for a few weeks. I noticed that my post yesterday sounded somewhat discourteous. Please disregard it. I was feeling somewhat peckish. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:46:42 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-16-97 Bear: >Melody - According to the letter from the president, Compuserve is going to be maintained as an independent entity with "no" negative changes. They will offer you the chance to move over to AOL or upgrade though. We'll see....... I can't comment on any forums as I don't use them. The Digest is it for me. < There *has* been one little change--I've been wondering why I've been able to access an AOL internet search engine lately. The merger would explain that. Thanks for the info. :-) P.S. Also got an E-mail announcing the sale of compuserve to Worldcom Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:44:51 -0400 (EDT) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-97 HOWDY EVERYONE! I have just received my first digest since August! Good 'ol AOL. It look like I've missed a good deal, including some bad news. Two items of interest: 1. I have a few more duplicate books for sale. If you would like my list, email me at JoelHarris@aol.com. Who knows, your message may get through! 2. I am starting a series of signed/limited children's books with top industry authors and illustrators. Currently, this is non-Ozzy, but who knows? My first book is with the Yosemite Association, titled "Two Bear Cubs" by Robert and Daniel San Souci. It is a Miwok Indian Legend taking place in Yosemite Valley. If anyone is interested in this or future projects, please email me privately and will I email more complete info. The books will be very limited, with extra art, etc., and the opportunity to get the original art as well! Joel Harris ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:58:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Oz on Pedloe Island? (fwd) I know little more about this than what's in this note, so I thought I'd throw the question out to all of you, see if there's anything else. Please respond directly to the original sender, not to me nor the "Digest" as a whole, as he's not a subscriber. (But if you could also cc any responses to him, I'd appreciate hearing as well -- remember, I'm not a subscriber anymore, either.) --Eric Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:40:24 -0700 (PDT) From: jrbrown@vcn.bc.ca Subject: http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/index.htmlpedloe? I'm trying to find information about Baum's Pedloe Island plan (to create a mini-Oz there)-- it didn't happen, I know, but what is the source for this story? Does the island even exist? I would appreciate any info. Thanks, JB ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:01:44 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-97 Who's at the Foundation of things? Ah, I had noticed that _Forward_ did seem a little . . . un-Asmovish. (I'd have thought _Earth_ would be the end of it, then accepted _Prelude_ with mild surprise. _Forward_ seemed to be stretching it on a bit longer than I'd expected. Even if it was pre-Foundation history anyway.) Aging in Oz: I can just imagine a conversation between an Ozzy parent and his/her child: Child: I heard that there was once aging in Oz. Is that true, mom / dad ? I seem to remember that somehow . . . Parent: You're only 2000 years old. Much to young to remember that. Ozzy chess: I notice all the villains of Oz are mysteriously absent from the proposed sets. Interesting . . . Maybe it's just that I like conflict. Who knows? Confusedly as usual, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:03:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-97 Hi Dave, Actually, I have been forwarding the Ozzy Digest to Patrick Maund. However it's not certain he has received all that I have forwarded. I'll be forwarding the version of the 19th to him today. I atttended the Requium Mass said for Warren Hollister yesterday at Trinity Church Episcopal in Santa Barbara. His Oz friends filled an entire pew. The congregation was quite sizable. The Hollisters all seemed to be doing remarkably well, but we all feel the loss of Warren. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 15:49:17 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-97 My favorite Baum SS is "The Tiger's Eye: A Jungle Fairy Tale" but I doubt if I'll find anyone in agreement with that. Jane told me that there was a copyright problem with _Purple Prince_ because it was not copyrighted by Thompson, but by Reilly & Lee, which was making it difficult for them to obtain publishing rights. I'm surprised someone's not trying to do so anyway, since there are bootleggers in every fandom. The difference is that my bootleg Oz videos fall into a loophole because they were never copyrighted in the U.S. Ufortunately, if they ever were, they would most certainly be dubbed rather than subtitled. Baing a fan of Japanese cinema makes this especially tough. In order to get subtitled, letterboxed versions of some of my favorite films, I have to pay $18.00 apiece and buy more than one at a time, when it is not especially ethical to do so. They still don't have a letterboxed, subtitled version of Toshio Masuda's _Nosutoradamusu no Daiyogen_ (1974), and id I tried to show _The Last Days of Planet Earth_ at Film Studies Club, the horrible dubbing would be far too distracting, especially the "Noooo, fathhher" part. Dave: An Oz chess set is a great idea, but shouldn't the Black King be Ruggedo, with Phanfasms, nomes, wicked witches, and the like? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 97 23:12:50 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things CHESS SET: Scott wrote: >Dave: An Oz chess set is a great idea, but shouldn't the Black King be >Ruggedo, with Phanfasms, nomes, wicked witches, and the like? That is another way to do it...I personally don't go for it because having Black's side be composed of bad guys creates a bias against Black, and I think that in Chess' 1500-or-so-year history, Black has suffered enough stigma as it is. AOL BUDDY SYSTEM: Here are the assignments I'm making for forwarding the Digest to AOLers...If I omitted someone or got something wrong or anyone else would like to help lighten the load on everyone else, let me know. Even though two people have stated that they seem to be getting the Digest again, I still want to do this until we know for sure. The first thing I need each "buddie" to do is E-mail their AOLers and ask them if they have web access. If so then they will be able to download September's Digests from the web...Otherwise the "buddie" will have to send them each Digest individually until they are caught up. Address of "Buddie" People to forward the Digest to ---------------------------------------------------------- (Me) --> Ozisus@aol.com, CrNoble@aol.com, BOZZYBEAR@aol.com, TheBBugle@aol.com JoelHarris@aol.com, VALEYARD1@aol.com --> DBaker4571@aol.com -> DianaBoban@aol.com --> Lenth1@aol.com --> ZMaund@aol.com --> Saroz@aol.com, BillyOzFan@aol.com --> jodel@aol.com, OZZILEE@aol.com, HermBieber@aol.com, DennisLiv@aol.com, jodel@aol.com, RMorris306@aol.com GEvans1127@aol.com, Haljim3@aol.com, YELLOBRKOZ@aol.com, BuckyB12@aol.com --> BluOrchid2@aol.com, KABUMPO16@aol.com, RRuback@aol.com, CWingerson@aol.com. BabyBengal@aol.com, Saundersrl@aol.com, Ozmama@aol.com, JMccull304@aol.com, OZMA1024@aol.com, Haldehoff@aol.com, SsSuperMom@aol.com, DBaker4571@aol.com -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 23, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:22:53 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-97 Dave: >The Digest members may have guessed that I personally use Dan for the white king and Zim for the black king,< Zim: You have pitted Dan vs. me? I hope you have equipped him with the Magic Belt. :-) Or how about a chess team of Oz heroes vs Oz villains? Ruggedo would be king on the villain side, naturally. Hmm. Wicked Witch of the West as queen? Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:49:15 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 11-10-96 Steve Teller: At last the writer's block has broken & ideas for SBM3 are coming through in earnest. Looks like we'll have a complete trilogy after all. (Sure glad I don't have to bat out 1 Oz book per year!) ****** POSSIBLE PLOT SPOILER****** Just got the scene into my computer where our adventurers meet Orlando's Uncle Mog on Huge Mountain. (Too bad Big Top Mountain is still under copyright!) :-) ******END SPOILER ******* Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:51:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz posts I've been digging out age-old posts tonight and uncovered a few things I should respond to; it appears no one else did. I so seldom have time to jump on line these days that I'm often overwhelmed by the load. I'm also on AOL, which I understand is causing me to receive fewer of them. But with that address out there on Gazettes for kids to use, I hestitate to change to a direct provider. I am about to start over on updating the Oz Chronology on the Club's Web site. I'd added 30 or so pages between Feb-June 1997 when my disc corrupted and my hard drive went nuts. Naturally it happened while I was making my back up copy, so I lost everything. We've rebuildt the desktop so I can't procrastinate any longer. As soon as my sweet husband finishes a massive woodworking project (building a desk for the home office we remodeled) it will be his turn to love up on the baby evenings and mine to disappear into the timeline till it's updated I've been pouring energy into planning for the IWOC's Oz Centennial Convention. I'm eager to see simultaneous programming that allows you to choose to go hear about the kinds of Oz stuff you enjoy, while others of a different Ozzy midset are off doing what they enjoy. The possibilities are endless. Has the Paul Hunter-directed "rap musical" of Oz yet materialized. Someone mentioned it and I'd like to know more. The HM Wogglebug clothing company operates in New York City and makes just about the most expense line of baby/girls clothes I've discovered since daughter Joy arrived last December. Unless you think we all should be buying $90 dry-clean-only dresses for 9-month old babies.... I don't know how you'd find a retailer in your area that carried the line without tracking down the NY company and asking. There is a Wizard of Oz Chess set pictured in the Oz Collector's Treasury. And there are at least rumors of others that were planned if not produced. I'll see what I can do with the paper version for the Winter Gazette. Dave H., this was your game, wasn't it? I need to credit it correctly and I'm not sure my cut-and-paste list of Digest entries I needed to keep worked. Scott, Thanks for your kind words about Billy Bumble in Oz. I don't know how to measure the value of a life, but the numbers who wept at the loss of our dear Bill Eubank were more than par for the course. I had had that story in mind for years, intending to ask him to illustrate it. I deeply regret not acting on the impulse sooner. My feelings about adults contributing to the Gazette are more driven by content that age. I want to include anything that makes Oz -- as a place or a hobby -- fun for kids. I love contributions from kids and do what I can to solicit them. But if adults contribute, that's no problem as long as the material is geared for kids to enjoy. It's that "To please a child" thing rearing it's head! As a Club, the IWOC doesn't want to get too far from that. Atticus: Thanks for the run down on the Tin Woodman manuscript! Almost like being there myself. Speaking of being there.... the Aberdeen Festival had some wonderful things to recommend it. I enjoyed greatly getting to hobnob with the handful of real Oz enthusiasts I knew (or met) who were there. Ruth, you came and went too soon! Do know, however, that the Mitchell library had virtually nothing of interest to collectors on display. I hope they'll change that for future festival weekends as I was quite disappointed. The Dakota Museum does recreate a room in the Gage home where Frank and Maud Baum were married. It's a permanent exhibit not the result of the festival. As to the city tour, read the guide carefully and you'll see that nearly everything has been destroyed by fire or otherwise torn down. There were two LFB rental homes standing and a remuddled clubhouse where men gathered in Baum's day, but the majority of "LFB slept here" sites are long gone. By the way, that little town has the screwiest street identifiers ever. The only place I've ever been where numbered streets intersect; you can actually stand at the corner of 6th and 6th. Or be directed to find something at the intersection of Frst and Second streets. Most confusing. And Dave H., "The Man Who Came to Dinner" is one of my all-time favorites regardless of who's in it. The writing is non-stop wild. I'd love to watch it with a few sharp wits who are willing to not carry on a conversation through the whole thing, making many a priceless line go unnoticed. Perhaps we'll watch it together at a convention after-hours party some day. If so, bring a loaf of rye bread... Jane ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 07:53:38 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 9/12-13 Digest, Bear asks me a few questions. <[W]hy are you "unease(y)?" [about the invaders' memory purge.]> It is just a feeling, but to me death seems preferable to brain washing. No, Lutheran. (Although we did attend the Quaker meeting for a few years.) <... Are you uncomfortable with the concept of self-defense?> Defense does not disturb me. Although *self* defense is a matter of personal decision, defense of family, community and nation are duties. (I have been professionally doing my part in the last for going on 34 years now.) And Bear expresses inability to understand my comment that Ozma was totally unable "to mount any defense against the invasion." Up until the evening before the invasion, Ozma did not have a clue as to what to do or even who to ask for suggestions or help. It was only due to the fortuitous exit point of the invaders' tunnel and to the Scarecrow's inspiration that the dust ploy came about. And that wasn't really necessary. The Magic Belt could have been used to return the invaders at any time, just as it was used after they had been mind wiped. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:30:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-97 Well, looks like I'm now taken care of by 'Ferrywa'. Wonder who that is.... ;-) Scott wrote: >Dave: An Oz chess set is a great idea, but shouldn't the Black King be >Ruggedo, with Phanfasms, nomes, wicked witches, and the like? and then Dave wrote: >That is another way to do it...I personally don't go for it because >having Black's side be composed of bad guys creates a bias against Black, >and I think that in Chess' 1500-or-so-year history, Black has suffered enough >stigma as it is. A pretty simply solution is to make them different colors....i.e. Green and Violet. ;-) This is how _I_ might make the set...let's, as an example, call them Gold and Silver for now. Gold King = Ozma (yes...well....) Gold Queen = Dorothy Gold King's Bishop = Wizard Gold Queen's Bishop = Scarecrow Gold King's Knight = Sir Hokus or Captain Fyter (can't decide which) Gold Queen's Knight = Tin Woodman Gold King's Rook = Glinda the Good Gold Queen's Rook = Polychrome Pawns = Sawhorses or Munchkins Silver King = The Nome King Silver Queen = Wicked Witch of the West Silver King's Bishop = Wizard of Wutz Silver Queen's Bishop = Mombi Silver King's Knight = First and Foremost Silver Queen's Knight = General Jinjur Silver King's Rook = Clocker Silver Queen's Rook = Kalidah Pawns = Winged Monkeys or Nomes That's it! Comments/suggestions/criticisms will be accepted with pleasure. Sarah ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:54:25 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-97 > Steve - >It was not a liberal who made up the bumper sticker: "AMERICA, > Love It > or Leave It." The false dichotomy is that you must approve of everything > America does (like go to war in Viet Nam) or you do not love your country. > > Another excellent example of a false dichotomy. Is this single glaring > example, and certainly not one most thinking conservatives (by the way this > is not an oxymoron) would subscribe to, meant to balance all of those from > the left? > > For better communications, Bear (:<) > Hardly, I only supplied that as an example. There are countless excamples from all sides of the political spectrum. As a "true" liberal, I try to see things from all sides (making me wishy-washy) rather than see the world through political blinkers. (I even found myself agreeing with a Stephen Chapman column last week and I didn't feel like a traitor). > > All, > All in all I'm rather glad to be absenting myself from the digest > for a couple of weeks. Perhaps this "Liberal"-"Conservative" nonsense > will sort itself out. > > Bob Spark > That'll be the day. > About two years ago I attended a economy class in college. > We were given an copy of an article that touched on the > similarities of the 1900 "The Wizard of Oz" story and the > economy and government of the U.S. I was wondering if you > would have heard of such an article or study and where I could read up > on this issue again. > Thank you > Marilyn "LittleMARE" Is it a sign of American education that economy is used as a synonym for economics? Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:22:20 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-97 FAMILY PLANE: I always thought a family helicopter was more practical . . . OZ CHESS SETS: I agree, the villains of Oz should definitely be represented; my only problem with making them the black set is the constant battle against racism and such--who's to say what color villains are? Of course, that may just be liberal whining [[ :-) :-) ]] , but still . . . I notice that Dave said something of the same sort at the end of yesterday's Digest. Perhaps the villains should have a set of their own, as they are prone to conflict with each other anyway. Full of white and black humor as always, Jeremy Steadman, P.C., S.O.M.R., G.O.A.L. [Politically Correct, Supportive of Minority Rights, Goer On At Large) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:43:53 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest X-Authentication-warning: mail2.geocities.com: wht2b6e05.resnet.iup.edu [144.80.104.94] didn't use HELO protocol On AOL: Nobody needs to send the Digest to Haldehoff@aol.com, unless AOL is still not receiving the Digest when I am on Thanksgiving break. (It's my address at home.) On Chess Sets: The villains don't necessarily have to be black. What about green (for Emerald City) against grey (for the Nome Kingdom), or something of that sort? There hasn't been that much Oz discussion recently, has there? When do we start the next BCF? -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff vovat@geocities.com or lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "I'm having a wonderful time, but I'd rather be whistling in the dark." ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:51:30 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-97 And a happy autumnal equinox to you all! Bear: Never even heard of Lethem, so I haven't read _Amnesia Moon_. Let us know how it is when you've read it. Bob S.: Sending that "other" article _would_ be embarrassing! I'm sure she accepted your apology, though. El Nino probably is warming the waters off Oregon, which may play havoc with the oyster population there. IIRC, oysters are pretty sensitive to water temperature; while there are warm-water species, the ones off the Oregon coast probably aren't. However, I'm speculating without any real data. (So what else is new?) I hope you had fun on your vacation (since I assume you won't read this till you've returned). Joel: I hope your publishing venture is a success. Scott: Producing a bootleg book isn't as easy as producing a bootleg video. Anybody with two VCRs can do the latter for practically nothing (just the cost of blank tape, and done only as required); few people have the facilities to produce a bootleg book on their own, and most professional printers would shy away from bootlegs, since they'd have joint liability if there were a lawsuit over it. If all you want is the text, of course, a bootleg E-text of a book is easy enough to do. But if you want a proper bound book with color illustrations, etc., then you're talking a significant capital investment, along with the risk of prosecution. Dave: Agreed that villains shouldn't be used in an Ozian chess set, at least if it's intended for real play. (If one is being designed as an art object, for display rather than use, then that would be different. But in that case I think it would be amusing to have the good guys be black and the villains white.) I've shipped off the 9-22 Digest to all the "buddies" you listed for me, with an offer to send any back issues they need, if they don't have Web access. Joyce did say that she'd gotten the 9/19 Digest through AOL; maybe the problem is, at least temporarily, fixed. But how come Eric Gjovaag is listed as one of the forwarders? I thought he wasn't a subscriber any more - or does he get the Digest, but just not read it? Some comments on _The Sea Fairies_: The early part of the book, where Trot and Cap'n Bill are given a tour of the ocean and encounter a lot of improbable sea-creatures, isn't very good. Once they're captured by Zog, however, it becomes quite tense and exciting - in fact, probably the most tense and exciting sustained sequence in all of Baum that I've read. (John Dough's perils on the Island of the Mifkets may be comparable, but John Dough isn't human, which puts his danger at a remove from the reader.) The problem is that this doesn't happen until more than halfway through the book. And Zog, as I said in a preliminary remark a week or so ago, is probably the most evil character who's onstage for any length of time in a Baum book. There are a couple of printing problems I noticed - two lines in Chapter 8 (at the bottom of page 95 in my edition) are reversed, and one line in Chapter 14 (in the middle of page 156) seems to have been left out. My copy is a R&L reprint bought in 1970; I don't know if these problems are specific to that edition or if they're in all the R&L editions (and maybe the BoW ones as well). Anybody else notice these problems? Also, Neill seems not to have read the MS very carefully; Sacho is described in the text as a delicate, frail little boy, but in illustrations that seem to portray him, he's quite old-looking besides being distinctly homely. It's not unusual for Neill's illustrations to vary from the text, but this is the most extreme example I can think of. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:04:58 -0400 From: "Mark A. Semich" Subject: Forward the Foundation > >ASIMOV AND OZ: > >I gather this _Forward the Foundation_ somewhat parallels > >_The Royal Book of Oz_ in that it purports to be by the > >great man himself, but in fact was adapted by someone else > >from notes Asimov left behind. Forward the Foundation (1993) was, chronologically, the second Foundation novel - but it was the very last one written. It was published after Isaac Asimov's death. It is basically a collection of four novellas, three of which were originally published in Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine while Isaace Asimov was living. The novel was originally intended by Asimov to be five novellas, but he passed away before he could write the concluding fifth novella. He left behind the first three novellas, and the fourth in rough-draft form. For the novel version, the first 3 novellas were publushed as Asimov left them, the fourth may or may not have been polished up a bit, and the fifth was left out. The epilog is of unknown authorship - Asimov himself didn't neccesarily intend to show the events of the epilog in FFTF - it was tacked on as a posthumous tribute to Isaac. - M ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:36:21 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-97 Nathan: On your "Weird Al" page, what is the origin of the Kennedy tatto. I think it might be the "Gump" video, but I forgot. I have no clue where the corned beef on rye or the chicken pot pie came from. Was it from one of those unreleased lyrics sheets? I see we both like They Might Be Giants, too! Has anyone read "The Littlest Giant?" What's this about? I understand it's a Baum Oz story, but it was printed in a Bugle I don't have that has not been reprinted. I'm still curious for info about the 1969 motion picture, _The Wonderful Land of Oz_. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:57:19 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-97 Dave: The Nome King is a whitish character, why not make the bad guys white. Or you could go for red, as Lewis Carroll did. I have a red and white Chess set that is quite exquisite, for plastic. The knights are on horseback, and the rooks are turrets mounted on elephants. BTW, when I gave _The Wiz_ soundtrack a 4, that was out of 5, using Lukas Kendall's Film Score Monthly scale, with 3 being "just regular bm" (background music) 2 being "polished turd," and 1 being "diarrhea." Thats lukas@filmscoremonthly.com. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:48:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-97 Chess set: One's been supposedly in the works for a coupla years now from The Soldier Factory in Cambria, CA. Pewter. Dunno if they've given up on the idea or not, but haven't heard anything new about it. Maybe for 2000? --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:49:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-97 Hold it! I just realized I got this straight from Dave, not Ruth, and that it didn't have to be downloaded. I wonder why. The merger? Maybe? --R. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:02:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-97 Dave, I've been sent this DIGEST by you, Ruth Berman, and Sandy Traylor. If I can get it from you, that's great. I can't help but wonder what's going on. And feel relieved that I'm being taken care of. Thanks, folks. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:16:57 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Memories of a Draftee In the 9/18-19 Digest, Dave Hardenbrook says, The sargents said that, not the troops. The real rule was "Never volunteer." (Along with "Shoot the bull, pass the buck, and keep a copy." and, "If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, pick it up. If you can't pick it up, paint it.") Having said all that, I hereby step up (showing how little I really learned) and volunteer to "adopt" an AOLer of Dave's choice. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 13:01:17 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZZY CHESS: I think some people may have misinterpreted my meaning when I talked about "The stigma of Black" -- I was refering to Black, not as an ethnic race, or even as a color, but as that player in a game of chess that controls the "army" that does not move first. "Black" is very much the underdog in chess, and it doesn't matter what color it is. I don't know if there's anyone else here besides me who ever saw those "Miniature Chess Masterpieces" on PBS in the 1970's, but of all those "quickie" classic chess games that they replayed, only a small handful are won by "Black". "Black"'s victories are just not as much publicized, and it is often considered the "evil" side. "Black" is also the side with the presumed initial disadvantage because it doesn't move first. (Although chess writer Fred Reinfeld argued that it's really White who is at a disadvantage because, having the first move, White has to commit himself.) Anyway, my point is, as David pointed out, having one side for the bad guys may be ideal for a strictly asthetic chess set; but for actual play, better to have a set that has each side as a benevolent team and so makes for a friendly sport (as in _Through the Looking Glass_) rather than a "war". Does anyone know anything more about the Oz chess set that Robin mentioned? I hope it won't be like the "Alice" chess set I have. It's nice but each character represents all of each piece, e.g. all four bishops are the Mad Hatter, both queens are Alice (what a blow to an ardent fan of the White Queen as I am!), etc. Also, the character designs for the pieces are Disney-based. Would a commercial Oz chess set be MGM-based?? HERE IS THE REVISED AOL "BUDDY LIST": Address of "Buddie" People to forward the Digest to ---------------------------------------------------------- (Me) --> BOZZYBEAR@aol.com, TheBBugle@aol.com JoelHarris@aol.com, VALEYARD1@aol.com --> DBaker4571@aol.com --> OZZILEE@aol.com -> DianaBoban@aol.com --> Lenth1@aol.com --> ZMaund@aol.com --> Saroz@aol.com, BillyOzFan@aol.com --> jodel@aol.com, BabyBengal@aol.com, Saundersrl@aol.com, HermBieber@aol.com, jodel@aol.com, RMorris306@aol.com GEvans1127@aol.com, Haljim3@aol.com --> BluOrchid2@aol.com, KABUMPO16@aol.com, RRuback@aol.com, CWingerson@aol.com, JMccull304@aol.com, OZMA1024@aol.com, SsSuperMom@aol.com, YELLOBRKOZ@aol.com, BuckyB12@aol.com -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 24, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:42:08 -0500 From: Bea & Herschel Premack Subject: Aberdeen's LFB Oz Festival I have more information now about publications that came out during the Aberdeen LFB Oz Festival, the Dakota Heritage...and how to order them: So here are descriptions and order info. "A Tour of L. Frank Baum's Aberdeen" Aberdeen historian Don Artz has packed a wealth of Baum, Oz, and Aberdeen history into this guide. Profusely illustrated, it shows all three homes Baum lived in during his Aberdeen years, the buildings that housed Baum's Bazaar and his 'Aberdeen Saturday Pioneer'--and much more. (20 pages, $3.00) "Mother Goose in Prose" This selection of six stories from Baum's first children's book includes some of the original illustrations by Maxfield Parrish and new illustrations by Judith Westegaard, as well as Baum's original introductins and a new introducion by Don Artz. (Northern State University Press, 104 pages, 6X9 inches, $10) Mail request to Jeannette Protexter, 1710 No Kline St , Abeerdeen, SD 57401 Send # copies requested, your check made out to LFB Oz Festival, add $3 for packing and shipping, with your name and address. (If you would be interested in having one of our program books from the festival, please indicate that with your order and add $2.50 for the book which includes postage) "Oz in Aberdeen" When L. Frank Baum left Aberdeen, So Dak, nine years before the publication of "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz", it was not only his failed businesses and ruined hopes he left behind; he had been very fond of his little niece, Matilda Gage, and she loved her storytelling uncle. Matilda treasured the many books her uncle sent her over the years, and throughout her long life, she collected hundreds of fascinating documents concerning Baum and Oz. Upon her death in 1986 she bequeathed her collection to Aberdeen's Alexander Mitchell Library. David Rave, director of the library, has compiled and published an annotated catalog of that collection, a useful tool for all who are seriously interested in Baum and Oz. (56 pages, 7X9, $8) Mail request to David Rave, Alexander Mitchell Library, 519 So Kline St. Aberdee, SD, 75401-4495 Send # copies requested, your check made out to Alexander Mitchell Library, for packing and shipping, add $2 for first book and $1 for each additional book, and your name and address. We are still working on an education brochure compiling work information done throughout our school system, so more about that in the future. If you would like more info, I would be happy to answer any questions. Jane Albright, Stephen Teller and Ruth Berman have seen these publications. The date has been set for next years festival. It will be August 8 and 9th. We are aware that there will be conflicts with other conventions, but it was our best alternative. I will be sending along more info about the first festival so you will have a better idea of what we do here. Bea ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:38:49 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-23-97 Melody: >Or how about a chess team of Oz heroes vs Oz villains? Ruggedo would be >king on the villain side, naturally. Hmm. Wicked Witch of the West as >queen? Personally, I'd make Mombi queen - she wasn't as powerful as the WWW, but she's the only female villain to appear in more than one book (in the FF), as far as I can recall. That matches best with Ruggedo, who also wasn't as powerful as the First and Foremost, or probably several other villains, but was the male villain who turned up the most often. > At last the writer's block has broken & ideas for SBM3 are coming >through in earnest. Looks like we'll have a complete trilogy after all. >(Sure glad I don't have to bat out 1 Oz book per year!) I'll be happy (for a little while, anyhow) when SBM2 finally appears! Jane: Multi-track programming at the Centennial Convention is no doubt a good idea, but five different tracks may be a bit too much. At least, it's likely to leave a lot of Oz fans with multiple interests frustrated. My main interest (as is probably obvious to anyone on the Digest) is in the story of Oz that unfolds in the books (as opposed to Oz-related artifacts - including books - or the MGM movie), but I'm about as interested in scholarly discussions of what the authors had in mind (or might have had in mind) as in Oz-as-history. And I suspect that there are a lot of other Oz fans whose interests include more than one possible "track". Of course, an embarrassment of riches is still rich, and I won't fault someone who devises a program where my worst problem is deciding which of two (or more) items is the most interesting! >By the way, that little town [Aberdeen, SD] has the screwiest street >identifiers ever. The >only place I've ever been where numbered streets intersect; you can actually >stand at the corner of 6th and 6th. Or be directed to find something at the >intersection of Frst and Second streets. Most confusing. There's a classic place in Greenwich Village in New York City where West 12th and West 8th streets cross. (I may have the numbers wrong, but it's something like that.) And in Orange County, CA, where I used to live, Macarthur Blvd. intersects both Main St. and Bristol St. at two different places, one in Santa Ana and one in Irvine. (But they're continuous streets.) Robin: >Chess set: One's been supposedly in the works for a coupla years now from The >Soldier Factory in Cambria, CA. Pewter. Dunno if they've given up on the >idea or not, but haven't heard anything new about it. Maybe for 2000? I love the Soldier Factory. I have a set of the Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, WWW, Cowardly Lion, and Pigasus (though I suspect the latter wasn't _really_ Oz-inspired) from them, and they have all kinds of other neat stuff that reminds me of the toy soldiers I played with as a kid. >Dave, I've been sent this DIGEST by you, Ruth Berman, and Sandy Traylor. If I >can get it from you, that's great. I can't help but wonder what's going on. > And feel relieved that I'm being taken care of. Thanks, folks. --Robin I got a Digest forwarded from Sandy Traylor as well. I thank you, Sandy, whoever you are, but I'm not on AOL and don't have any trouble getting the Digest directly. Earl: >The sargents said that, not the troops. The real rule was "Never >volunteer." (Along with "Shoot the bull, pass the buck, and keep a >copy." and, "If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, pick it up. If >you can't pick it up, paint it.") The way I heard it (possibly my mentors were less well-educated than yours) was "Don't _never_ volunteer for _nothin'_." But otherwise, yes, you seem to have been in the same army I was. :-) Dave: I _think_ that the AOL people are getting their Digests OK now - I know Joyce is - but I'll continue to forward to my "buddies" until I hear something definitive. And hasn't anyone else read _The Sea Fairies_ yet? David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:35:59 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones Earl: It may not have been possible to use the Belt to return the invaders while they were marching for two reasons: 1. In _Emerald City_, it says that the Magic Belt itself would not really add to the power of the Phanfasms, so it may not have worked while their knowledge of magic was strong. It may have been necessary to mind wipe them so that they could offer no defense. 2. If they had done that, the Belt would be completely drained (if you accept the HACC theory that the belt was drained of power after this and did not recover until the Thompson administration). The invaders would have simply returned, and the Belt would have been useless to stop them the second time. Asimov: I knew it! I suspected that Asimov did not write _Forward the Foundation_ in its entirety. Many elements of the story were un-Asimovian. I KNEW somebody patched together his notes. Hee hee! Right again. Now I know how Limbaugh feels... :-) Scott: With all due respect to the Great Emancipator, the President cannot ammend the constitution. Sigh. Another example of us forgetting our heritage. Ozzy Chess: I'll go along with Nathan's idea of making the good guys green and the bad guys gray, which would be a good symbology with no racial statements. Dave: I've always thought that too. White must make his move with no knowledge of what Black wants to do, while Black gets to see White's opening strategy and respond. Still, I've heard that White wins more often... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:36:39 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 9/22-23 Digest, David Hulan points out two printing problems in his R&L reprint of _Sea Fairies_ bought in 1970 and wonders if they are present in the BoW reprints. 1) two lines in Chapter 8 (at the bottom of page 95 in the R&L) are reversed. I find the same error in the same place in my hardbound BoW. 2) one line in Chapter 14 (in the middle of page 156) seems to have been left out. Similarly, on page 156 in the BoW edition, a line -- possibly only one or two words long -- appears to be omitted (right after, "'You did; you pulled that bell cord,' said the one-legged"). Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:16:45 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-23-97 Robin: So the merger made things _easier_ on AOL? That seems unlikely. Must've been coincidence. Dave: Good point (about the second mover in chess being at the disadvantage). About like the "O" in Tic Tac Toe . . . Not alot of Ozzy thoughts today . . . or the shorter Digest gave me less to say. (Well, something had to, I guess.) --Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:13:46 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-23-97 > > Has anyone read "The Littlest Giant?" What's this about? I understand > it's a Baum Oz story, but it was printed in a Bugle I don't have that has > not been reprinted. > > Scott I've read it. It is not really "Ozzy," It appeared in the Spring 1975 BAUM BUGLE. This has not (yet) been included in a Best of the Baum Bugle volume. BTW Michael O. Riley's OZ AND BEYOND: THE FANTASY WORLD OF L. FRANK BAUM has now been published by the University of Kansas Press. I am looking at a copy right now. It contains a complete chronological bibliography of LFB's known works. If we are now considering THE SEA FAIRIES I will make some early comments. When I was young (in the dark ages), it was NOT one of my favorite Baum Books. I did, however, very much enjoy the chapter about the "Holy mackeral." They proclaim "Flippitry's gone to glory!" when one of their fellows has been caught, and Trot unsuccessfully tries to inform them that Flippity has actually been caught to feed humans. This seems a delicious satire on religious fanatics which is as fresh today as it was in 1911. I also liked the Octopus who complained when he learned he was being compared to a Stannard Oil Millionaire, although this may be rather dated today. The first half of the book is quite episodic and has little tension in it; in this way it resembles THE EMERALD CITY OF OZ Uncle Henry and Aunt Em action. Steve T. ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 25, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:15:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-97 _Sea Fairies_ weirdities: << 1) two lines in Chapter 8 (at the bottom of page 95 in the R&L) are reversed. I find the same error in the same place in my hardbound BoW. 2) one line in Chapter 14 (in the middle of page 156) seems to have been left out. Similarly, on page 156 in the BoW edition, a line -- possibly only one or two words long -- appears to be omitted (right after, "'You did; you pulled that bell cord,' said the one-legged"). >> Both errors originally occur in the first edition, first printing. ---------------- I'm sorry for posting more than once. I don't know how to get back to and add to my "Send Later" (postponed) mail on AOL yet. ________ Dave: It's back to sending me only the first 2K. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:17:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-97 In a message dated 97-09-24 16:38:26 EDT, you write: << Multi-track programming at the Centennial Convention is no doubt a good idea, but five different tracks may be a bit too much. At least, it's likely to leave a lot of Oz fans with multiple interests frustrated. >> David: I'll bet Jane has a better plan than that. Usually with multi-tracked programs, each program is repeated a number of times, thus giving conventioneers more than one shot at the programs they really want to attend. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:46:38 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-97 > Scott: > With all due respect to the Great Emancipator, the President cannot ammend > the constitution. Sigh. Another example of us forgetting our heritage. Which Scott are you referring to? I know I didn't write anything about this, and I don't remember reading about it from one of the other Scotts > > Has anyone read "The Littlest Giant?" What's this about? I understand > > it's a Baum Oz story, but it was printed in a Bugle I don't have that has > > not been reprinted. > > > > Scott > > I've read it. It is not really "Ozzy," It appeared in the Spring 1975 > BAUM BUGLE. This has not (yet) been included in a Best of the Baum > Bugle volume. What was this about? I wonder if it had anything in common with _The Smurfs_ 1982 episode of the same title, especially since I spent forever punching all the voice credits onto the filmography. Is Tandy Cronyn the child of Jessica and Hume? > > If we are now considering THE SEA FAIRIES I will make some early > comments. When I was young (in the dark ages), it was NOT one of my > favorite Baum Books. I did, however, very much enjoy the chapter about > the "Holy mackeral." They proclaim "Flippitry's gone to glory!" when > one of their fellows has been caught, and Trot unsuccessfully tries to > inform them that Flippity has actually been caught to feed humans. This > seems a delicious satire on religious fanatics which is as fresh today > as it was in 1911. I also liked the Octopus who complained when he > learned he was being compared to a Stannard Oil Millionaire, although > this may be rather dated today. The first half of the book is quite > episodic and has little tension in it; in this way it resembles THE > EMERALD CITY OF OZ Uncle Henry and Aunt Em action. > > Steve T. I liked a lot of these elements too, the one about the fiddler crabs and the atonalities was a bit funny, until you start to appreciate that kind of music. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:45:57, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-97 I am still waiting for my copy of "Sea Fairies" from BOW, so I have not read it yet. A few final questions about EC. If Toto was supposedly the first dog in Oz, Why were the bunnies of Bunnybury afraid of dogs? and... The Rigamarole houses were Munchkin houses, Why is Rigamarole in the Quadling country on the Oz map? Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:06:42 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-97 Jane: I do know that Mark Brown, screenwriter of the rap musical, wrote _How to be a Player_ (directed by Lionel C. Martin). I believe the film is due out some time next year. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:28:50 -0700 From: Robert Schroeder Subject: Ozzy Digest Oz Chess Set... While I don't play chess, the discussion around the set has really been interesting. And to all those who pointed out the racist overtones to have the good "guys" in white and the bad "guys" in black, I want to salute you!!! I currently serve on an international commission on Racism thru my church, and these are issues that we have been dealing with for so many years. Its amazing how our language can hurt someone, and what's worse, we often don't even recognize it. And not only is it black vs. white, but its also dark vs. light, right vs. left, et al. In fact, I have been so engrossed in these issues, that when I read about General Jinjur and her army in _Land_, I got queazy and almost quit reading the book, due to the extreme sexist language, but then, I remembered the book was written in the early part of this century and that is how women were viewed. Of course, it didn't make it right, but at least I could finish the book.... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:38:53 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-97 Tyler: Good reasons why the Belt couldn't have been used to prevent the invasion of Oz in EC. >I knew it! I suspected that Asimov did not write _Forward the Foundation_ >in its entirety. Many elements of the story were un-Asimovian. I KNEW >somebody patched together his notes. Hee hee! Right again. Now I know how >Limbaugh feels... :-) To really know how Limbaugh feels you'd have had to have made up a large number of "facts" that weren't, and then find that all kinds of people believed them because they conformed with their world-view. Earl: Thanks for the info on the BoW editions of _Sea Fairies_. They seem to be the same as the R&L edition that I have. Jeremy: >Dave: >Good point (about the second mover in chess being at the >disadvantage). About like the "O" in Tic Tac Toe . . . Not quite as bad. For "O" to win in tic-tac-toe "X" has to play with a serious amount of stupidity (like overlooking two "O"s in a row). Black wins in chess a fair amount of the time; a good player playing Black will beat a mediocre one playing White every time. Steve: Amazon.com has informed me that my copy of the Riley book has been shipped, but it hasn't arrived yet. (OTOH, the two Ozian stained-glass items I ordered from BoW back in July have finally arrived, and are Gorgeous. This isn't a criticism of BoW, by the way; I knew when I ordered them that they'd have to be made to order, and it would be 2-3 months before they were delivered.) I already had the Ruggedo-TikTok and Ojo-Woozy-Glass Cat one; I now have the Ozma-Dorothy and Nick Chopper-Polychrome ones. Now my entire front bay window has Ozian stained glass ornaments showing. "Flippity's gone to glory!" and the "Stannard Oil Company is an octopus" lines were ones that I remembered best from _Sea Fairies_ as well between reading it the first time when I was about 9 and the second time when I was 36 or so. Other bits I remembered well were Anko's reconstruction of names (Julius Sneezer/Caesar, Nevercouldnever/Nebuchadnezzar, Napoleon Bonesapart/Bonaparte, etc.) and Zog's servants having gills on their necks. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:45:35 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-97 David: Has anyone gotten to _The Sea Fairies_? Well I have, but I havent' finished it. I've been stuck in AOL land for so long that I don't know if we're supposed to be discussing it yet. Initial reaction to chapter one: I wonder if Capn Bill's ungrammatical English had anything to do with the poor favor in which Baum's books were held by librarians later in the century. Stephen: Glad to hear that the Riley book has a complete Baum bibliography. That will make it an even more valuable resource for collectors. I wonder if Riley's bibliography is more complete than the one in the _Annotated Wizard of Oz_. I will order it from BoW before the special rate expires at the end of this month. I think they're offering an autographed edition. -- Megan's Dad (Craig Noble) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:28:10 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-97 Sender: "Melody G. Keller" Steve: > They proclaim "Flippitry's gone to glory!" when one of their fellows has been caught, and Trot unsuccessfully tries to inform them that Flippity has actually been caught to feed humans.< I thought that part interesting, too. Sounds like Baum agrees with the Bible's view of Death as enemy, not friend. On Zog: His reversed emotional reactions (frowning when happy and laughing with furious) seem typical of some Irish faeries. Read a tale of one faery who married a human, on the condition that he not abuse her. Then the husband, annoyed by her faery behavior (laughing at funerals, crying at births and weddings) chided her for it. This was abuse enough--the faery's father came and took her away. One wonders if Baum (whose mother Ruth Berman discovered was Scots-Irish) got the idea for this aspect of Zog's personality from hearing or reading such tales. David Hulan: SBM2 is all set up in my computer save for the illos. & I need to colorize the cover. And then save up some money to get it printed! :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:29:56 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones Streets: I've heard of a street in Chicago that intersects itself, but I've never verified it. I must read _Sea Fairies_. I've only done so once, a couple years ago. I've read _Sky Island_ numerous times in the last 20 years, though, so I'll have no problems when it becomes BCF. Overall, though, I was a little disappointed in it. I received _Sky Island_ when I was about six and it was always one of my favorites. For years I searched for "The first Trot-book", as I called it, sure that it would be on the same level. WHen BOW finally published it, I found it not quite what I had hoped for. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 04:44:40 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-97 Re: Tyler wrote: "Scott: With all due respect to the Great Emancipator, the President cannot ammend the constitution. Sigh. Another example of us forgetting our heritage." I realized that was worded improperly as soon as I clicked the "send" button on my e-mail. Hopefully the intent of my message was clear. Re: David's comment "Has anyone out there read _Sea Fairies_" (or words to that effect). I've read it twice. That may be enough. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:53:05 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 9/25 Digest, Tyler Jones says, However, the Phanfasms seem to have made little use of that significant power, if they really do have such magic. He also suggests that the Magic Belt would have been exhausted by one mass transportation of the invaders and so, could not be used to send them home and keep them there without some additional factor, such as the Fountain of Oblivion. This may be so, but there is no indication that Ozma knew this. She did not try that or anything. Something should have been done. The transportation of a few eggs into the tunnel every day probably would have cost the Belt little magical energy and could have considerably slowed the tunnel construction, to give the Ozians more time to prepare. Or even just to delay the inevitable, if it was truly inevitable. This was the nadir of our beloved monarch's reign. On the design of an Ozian chess set, Tyler says, Yes, but as Kemit the Frog states, "It's not easy being green." And in the realm of law, he says, Thank goodness; the Constitution is too important to be amended quickly or by the will or whim of an individual. However the President could use his or her "bully pulpit" to initiate the process or lead the effort to made some needed constitutional change. In the same issue, Steve T. mentions The episode may have inspired the _Toy Story_ episode in the prize game machine, in which the three eyed green alien toys thought they were being taken into heaven, whenever a game player managed to remove one with the claw. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:40:51 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Various comments on desirability of not using black for villains in chess sets: An easy way to make it clear that both sides are "good" would be to use white and green. It might be amusing to make up also a black and white set for a set of villains vs. villains (like the "Mad Magazine" cartoons of "Spy vs. Spy"), possibly black for villains who live inside Oz and white for villains who live outside Oz. Sarah's silver set of villains might be divided and a few more added to fill out such a villainous set: Black Royals Wutz the Wizard and Wicked Witch of the West; Bishops Mombi and Ugu; Knights Kalidah and Li-mon-eag; Rooks Jinjur and Crunch; Pawns Coo-ee-oh, Su-Dic, Chief Scarer, Chief Scrapper, Faleero, Googly-Goo, J. Glegg, Winged Monkey. (Or perhaps, as David Hulan suggests, the WWW and Mombi should change places, as Mombi has a major role in several books.) White Royals Nome King and Fi-Nance; Bishops Gwig and Conjo; Knights First and Foremost and Zog; Rooks Clocker and Giant with the Hammer; Pawns Chocolate Soldier, Delva, Scoodler, Gargoyle, Dollfin, Dragonette, Growleywog, Wimsie. Seeing that the suggested method of making characters was to photocopy illos and mount them, it might be difficult to have black characters as such at all (unless one has access to a way to do them in photo negative, as white lines on black background), but grey paper could be substituted for black. Actually, for real gluttons for figure- making, it would be possible to find enough more or less appropriate characters (sometimes a good deal less) to do one each set in green, blue, purple, yellow, and red, for characters from each of the major areas of Oz -- and counting orange as the color for the Desert, also for a set of characters from the lands beyond the Desert. A certain amount of fudging would be possible in terms of where characters live and where they're from. Only two could be played with at a time in normal chess, but more than two could be set up on display. Looking at a copy of the Lewis Carroll Society's "Knight Letter" in the library, I noticed reference to about four "Alice" chess-sets currently available. One seems to be the Disney set Dave mentioned, but I think the others are non-Disney. Earl Abbe, who is a member, may have the issue to hand and can maybe give more details. David Hulan: I'm still in the process of re-reading "Sea Fairies," so don't have new material to add here yet, except to note that I checked the two typos you mention, and they're present in my copy (a first edition). I vaguely recall having noticed the pair of reversed lines on previous readings, but don't think I'd consciously noticed the missing line. (What's missing is likely to be only the single word "man.") Also, like you, I had always been puzzled by Neill's adult-looking drawings of the boy Sacho. I wonder if perhaps he was worrying about keeping the character sufficiently distinct from Chick in "John Dough." Or maybe he'd recently seen a beaky adolescent and thought the facial type was so amusing that he wanted to work it in somewhere. I had some comments on "Sea Fairies" a couple of years ago in my "Dunkiton" pamphlet #3 ("Mermaid Tales"), which contained my essay on Oz mermaids, two short stories about mermaids by RPT, and one by Walt McDougall (with McDougall's drawing of "Lurline" -- the mermaid -- as front cover, and a b&w reproduction of Neill's color drawing of Trot-as-mermaid with Princess Clia as bacover). (You have a copy of it already, but if other people are interested, I have copies available.) What I had to say about "Sea Fairies" in the essay was: "L. Frank Baum was one of those [like Charles Kingsley in "The Water Babies" of 1863, which probably started it, or like E. Nesbit in "Wet Magic" in 1913) who portrayed mermaids as benevolent nature-spirits, in 'The Sea Fairies' (1911). Despite the name, Baum's Sea Fairies are quite unlike Tennyson's ddangerous, Siren-like Sea-Fairies. In fact, Baum's tale is set going by Cap'n Bill's superstitious fear of Siren-like mermaids, and Trot's wiser confidence that supernatural powers couldn't possibly be like that. In the preface, Baum commented: 'The ocean has always appealed to me as a veritable wonderland, and this story has been suggested to me many times by my young correspondents in their letters. Indeed, a good many children have implored me to "write something about the mermaids," and I have willingly granted the request.' At the opening of the story, the narrative describes the beauty of the lights and colors of the sea, as Trot and Cap'n Bill row into Giant's Cave, which glows like a sapphire, and this natural splendor is echoed in the mermaids' magical kingdom, with its brilliantly colored sea-shrubs, coral walls, and mother-of-pearl panelling. "John R. Neill evidently delighted in the curving, fluid mermaid shapes, and did some of his best work for 'The Sea Fairies,' especially in the color plates, where he followed up on his use of metallic green for borders in 'The Emerald City' (1910). The bright green was as appropriate to a water-world as it had been for a city of emeralds, and he also enjoyed playing on the mixed beauty and comedy of such scenes as Trot, in her plain jacket and cap, swimming with Princess Clia, both of them curling their tails as they glide into the fishy waves; or Cap'n Bill, braced on his side-fins and the curve of his tail as he lights his pipe." Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:46:09 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-97 I have to say that I am in agreement that the first half of Sea Faries is lacking in tension. The book certainly starts well. But by the time one has the introductory stuff out of the way and is expecting an adventure to begin, it is a bit flat. On the good side, the "tour" is rather better handled than in Emerald City, closer to the level of Road, and the vaudville skits are MUCH better handled than in Land. Which leaves one to wonder why Baum did not do a bit of forshadowing of the (excellent) Zog sequence during the tour. All it would have taken was to have a few surviors of Zog's evil actions show up, interspercing the tour stops. And, as to Zog himself, this is one very peculiar villian. He is presented as being absolutely evil. And yet, apart from capturing and trying to kill mermaids (and their human guests) -- for bad and sufficient reason, as such things go -- he is appears to do absolutely nothing to which one could make all that much objection. While he is callous enough to laugh at drowning human s, no one else under the sea seems to do much for them either. And while he may be criticized for not saving more of them, when he clearly is able to, he is under no obligation to do so. He treats the ones that he saves very well by all accounts. The "evil" of Zog, somehow does not come across particularly well. (Nor does the intrinsic horridness of octopi. What does come across is a determination to see what is ugly as being wicked.) At least not to me. What filters through simply seems to translate as being personaly repellant and having unpleasant minions. We have certainly met nastier characters, some of whom have not even been regarded as particularly bad. The DANGER of Zog, however, is quite clear and very well handled. This is one of the books which I did not encounter until I was an adult, so I may be getting a different slant on it than some others here. I do like the intro to Trot and Cap'n Bill, even though I could do without Trot's sloppy diction and the Captains "arr-arr" dialect. But there was a vogue for this sort of thing at the time, and Baum was certainly not the only practitioner. Trot seems very like the Dorothy of Wizard, although lacking in forwardness and the budding aggressive streak of the older Dot. The Captain is not particularly like the Wizard, although he serves in much the same function as the Wiz did in DotWiz. It would have been interesting to see how these characteres would have developed if they had had a few more books of their own. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 14:38:54 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things AOL-COMPUSERVE: Hmmm...Both Tyler and Melody have a new field in their message headers: "Sender:". Is this a side-effect of the Compuserve-AOL merge? I'd be very interested to know the distinction Compuserve (AOL?) makes between "Sender:" and "From:". :) BTW, I have now seen the first great innovation in the wake of the Delphi-Mindspring "quasi-merge"...My transfer rate has halved from 28800 to 14400 bps. :( How are the AOLers doing? Are you getting the Digest now without having it forwarded? Some of you have mentioned that you are getting several copies of the Digest from several people per day. Apparently my attempt at organizing the forwarding process was now as successful as I hoped. But at least people *are* getting the Digest. Is everyone getting the copies forwarded by Digest member Sandy Traylor? Since she's taken it upon herself to forward them all, I think it would make things much easier if she were our sole Lord High Digest Forwarder from here on out if that's all right with her. Of course, if everyone is caught up now and is receiving the Digest from me OK again, then I there's no need to forward them at all, so please let me know if your getting the Digest from me now. CHESS SETS: If anyone knows about those other Alice chess sets, I would be interested. Also I had another idea for holding the pieces in place. Get a cheap chessboard and paste one half of pieces of velcro to each square, and then pices of the other side of the velcro to the base of each piece -- How would that work do you think? In regard to the "racial" implications of chess, that have been discussed on the Digest I found in the British "chess for fun" book _The Complete Chess Addict_ that there is a book called _The Amazing Adventures of Dan the Pawn_ ( no relation to my Dan :) ) which teaches chess to children by weaving a plot around a game which White happens to win. The British Teacher's Union criticized the book saying that, "It would have been more symbolically exciting if the blacks had been allowed to win. Racist stereotypes and assumptions permeate our culture in many subtle ways." So it appears that of all the games played in the 1500-or-so years of chess, roughly half of them (all the ones won by White) are politically incorrect. :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 26, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:35:13 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest David: According to Patrick Maund's bibliographical article on _Sea Fairies_ in the Spring 1997 Bugle, the BoW edition is an off-set copy of the R & B first state, in which the last two lines on p. 95 (and also lines 14 & 15 on p. 105) are transposed. I have the R & L edition--second state--from ca. 1922, in which the lines are correctly set. However, in my edition there is a missing line in the middle of p. 156, as there is in your copy. I wonder if Patrick overlooked that printing error. Incidentally, the pictorial label on my copy depicts Trot holding up a round mirror to a mermaid who admires her reflection. I'm willing to bet that this is an allusion to the famous Cluny tapestry series in which one panel depicts the Lady holding up a mirror to the Unicorn. The mermaid even has her arms raised the way the unicorn does in the tapestry. I agree that Zog is profoundly scary. The typical satanic touches (horns, hoof feet, glowing eyes) make him look evil in a conventional way, but he's not only evil, he's degenerate. He's a melancholy aesthete of terror, an elegant sadist with a handsome countenance and long feminine eye lashes who lives in refined luxury but hates his existence. The only pleasure he experiences comes from witnessing the heartbreak and despair of his prisoners in their futile struggles against him--i.e., witnessing them reach the point where they hate their lives as much as he hates his. The monstrousness of his body, carefully concealed beneath the folds of his embroidered golden robe, corresponds to the monstrousness of his twisted mind, likewise concealed beneath a veneer of refined manners. There is a degree of psychological horror here that makes Mombi and the Wicked Witch of the West look positively homespun in comparison. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:53:34 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-23-97 Steve T. wrote: >> We were given an copy of an article that touched on the >> similarities of the 1900 "The Wizard of Oz" story and the >> economy and government of the U.S. >Is it a sign of American education that economy is used as a synonym for >economics? Sorry, old man, but there was nothing wrong with Marilyn's use of the word. In fact, to substitute "economics" for "economy" in her original sentence would be flat wrong, or at best slangy. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:39:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz Digest post Ages ago someone asked about Beyond the Rainbow Wizard of Oz Collector's Exchange. Elaine Willingham began this newsletter in St. Louis years ago to meet the needs of fans and merchandise collectors of the 1939 MGM film of the Wizard of Oz. It's very well produced 8 or 12 pages, I think, and often does fun things -- like an issue devoted to Toto that included the MGM dog's biography and filmography, an article about his owner, reproduced his paw print autograph, had a checklist of Toto collectibles, an article about Toto as he developed in the books and as he's been presented in other film versions of Oz, etc. Bill Stillman, John Fricke and other well-known IWOC folks have contributed frequently to it. It is succesful enough for Elaine to be asked to endorse various commercially available Oz products. While someone who really resents the film wouldn't find much to enjoy, if you are a particular fan of the MGM WIzard film or a general I-like-everything-Oz person, you'll enjoy it. I recommend it often. Elaine runs product and classified advertising. In recent years, she organized weekend Oz get-togethers in Las Vegas that attracted about as many people as IWOC conventions. I haven't heard circulation numbers for years, but when I last did I think it went to around 800 people. She also has a mail order business offering Oz collectibles and has launched an effort to get enough money in an account to place birthday and Memorial Day flowers on the Bloomington, Ill., grave of Dorothy Louise Gage, our Dorothy's namesake. FYI, Elaine originally approached Fred Meyer offering to do this publication under the auspices of the IWOC but received no encouragement. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:15:13 -0700 From: Barbara Belgrave Subject: Oz Digest Can anyone tell me if there is a site that has Sea Faries on e-text or does anyone have a file of it they can e-mail me? Thanks, Barbara Belgrave ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:44:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Oz Chess Sets? 1) I think the last time the issue of Oz chess sets was raised, Barry suggested that we could have two "good" sides, such as Ozites vs. Moites. Ozites vs. Evians might do even better. Imagine: Jinnicky (probably in a glass tower) and the King of the Fairy Beavers as rooks. Rusty Ore and Tik-Tok as knights. Bitty Bit and Pigasus as bishops. Pawns could be Nomes, Wheelers, Dooners, or even chickens. 2) On _The Sea Fairies_: In my current rereading, there seems to be an element of rationality which was suspiciously absent in _Emerald City_. In _Emerald City_ Uncle Henry and Aunt Em did not believe Dorothy's tales of having been to Oz because of lack of evidence, yet it happens that Dorothy was right. In the _Sea Fairies_, however, Trot questions Cap'n Bill claim that no one who had met mermaids had ever "lived to tell the tale" on the grounds that if so, then there would be no knowledge at all of the existence of mermaids. A comprimise position (avoiding a false dichotomy) of someone seeing a photograph of a mermaid (I assume taken accidentally) is tenatively produced. In contrast with _Emerald City_, the skeptical Trot turns out to be right, meets mermaids, and lives to tell the tale. 3) I have received yet another Oz title in a dream: _The Secret Mooer of Oz_. Perhaps this means the cows _are_ plotting against us after all. (: ***WARNING: SPOILER OF _PINKY AND THE BRAIN_ EPISODE*** 4) It should be noted that last Friday on _Pinky and the Brain_ they did an Oz-related episode. Brain decided to take over the world by harnessing a cyclone using a device called a Verkimer suit. Pinky and the Brain headed for Kansas (cyclone country), and in the midst of much fighting with an overly competitive cylone-chaser, the mice attempted several times to get into the last cyclone of the season while they were in the Verkimer suit, including once where the Brain rigged a scarecrow to drive their truck for them so that they would not risk not being in the Verkimer suit when they met the cyclone. At last they succeeded, and the Verkimer suit worker, but Pinky turned off something he shouldn't have turned off. So everything gets out of control, and... I can't spoil everything, you know. ***END WARNING*** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman ףסוי לואש ןב המלש ןרהא adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:26:19 -0400 (EDT) From: ZMaund@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Post Greetings. This is my second request to all those that read the Ozzy Digest which, by definition, must be you. I am working on a bibliographic article on Baum's _The Enchanted Island of Yew_ and would very much appreciate hearing from anyone who owns, or has access to... 1) Any copy of this book in dust jacket 2) A copy of the 1920's printing by Bobbs-Merrill. You can easily tell if you have this book, ,as it was the only printing issued with a paper label, printed in colors, on the front cover. Many thanks for your help. Patrick Maund ZMaund@AOL.com ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 27 - 30, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:51:06 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-25-97 I didn't get a chance to comment on the 9-25 Digest yesterday, so there are two for me to comment on today. 9/25: Robin: To modify your "Send Later" mail in AOL just open "Outbox"; you'll see a listing of what you've postponed sending, and double-clicking on the title of the message you want to add to will reopen it so you can make additions and corrections. As for the multi-track programming, I was going by a proposed program that Jane had sent me (among others - I thought including you) a month or so ago. In that schedule only the two most popular items in each track would be repeated. Bob C.: >If Toto was supposedly the first dog in Oz, Why were the bunnies of >Bunnybury afraid of dogs? Toto may have been the first domestic dog in Oz (though there are hounds in _Merry-Go-Round_ that presumably had been there all along, and there probably are other dogs in other books that don't come to mind offhand), but we know that there were wolves in Oz (the WWW had a pack of them, and the Glass Cat meets one on the way into Gugu's forest), and wolves and dogs are closely enough related that they can produce fertile hybrids. (Arguably they're the same species, though I don't think most taxonomists lump them.) Even though Toto - whether he's Denslow's Scottie or Cairn or Neill's Boston terrier - doesn't look much like a wolf, he probably smells enough like one to trigger primal fears in a rabbit. >The Rigamarole houses were Munchkin houses, Why is Rigamarole in the >Quadling country on the Oz map? It just says the houses were Munchkin shaped - but in illustrations, at any rate, all the houses throughout Oz seem to have that same domed shape, at least in the more settled parts. Stranger, actually, is that after they leave Flutterbudget Center it says they're in the Gillikin Country, though the map shows FC in the Quadling Country as well. I think this is a case of Baum just misspeaking himself; the whole flow of the story works better if most of their tour is in the Quadling Country. Megan's Dad: >I wonder if Capn Bill's ungrammatical English had anything to do with the >poor favor in which Baum's books were held by librarians later in the >century. Doubtful. For one thing, Cap'n Bill isn't an important character in that many books, and he's the only adult character I can think of with poor diction. For another, lots of books that were highly approved by librarians had characters with poor diction - _Huckleberry Finn_, for instance. Or the Uncle Remus stories. (Both of which sometimes come under fire today for a different reason, but which were very popular during the time when Baum was least approved.) I don't know if Riley's bibliography is any more complete than Hearn's, but it's differently organized (strictly chronologically), so its utility is different. (Unless you want to enter the whole bibliography into a database so you can organize it by any principle you want as you want it.) I just finished reading _Oz and Beyond_, by the way, and it's a marvelous book, one that I think just about any of the active Digest people would enjoy. (And probably many of the rest of you, if you enjoy reading the kind of discussions we have here, even if you don't contribute to them.) I don't agree with all his evaluations of the books (he seems to put _Lost Princess_, which is my favorite, down near the bottom, and _Tin Woodman_, which I think is badly flawed, much higher), but as the saying goes, that's why they have chocolate and vanilla. Sounds as if there's a new _Oz Collector_ out that I haven't received yet, but what else is new? Melody: >SBM2 is all set up in my computer save for the illos. & I need to colorize >the cover. And then save up some money to get it printed! :-) I'm glad to hear that it's that nearly ready to publish. So I hope you can save up the money quickly! Tyler: I don't recall hearing of a street in Chicago that intersects itself, but I do know that a couple of the main streets intersect each other more than once. I remember Milwaukee Ave. is one of them, but I can't remember the other - Lincoln, maybe? I'll dig out my map book one of these days and check. Earl: The Phanfasms do almost nothing once they leave Mt. Phantastico but march through the tunnel and get thirsty. If they're really more powerful than the Magic Belt, then it would seem reasonable that they might just banish the dust, but that would ruin the story... Ruth: One minor quibble with your villainous chess set - Delva is from inside Oz. Unless you're accepting my story from Oziana, "A Princess of Oz," as canonical, since I have Ozma send her to the Nome Kingdom at the end of it. :-) She could easily be replaced by Strut of the Strat, though, or the Mangaboo Princess, or a Wheeler. Not quibbles, but some alternate choices: Although she's certainly from within Oz, I think Jinjur is shown enough in her "reformed" mode that she shouldn't count as a villain; I'd prefer Mooj as the second black rook. And Fi Nance is an unpleasant lady, but making her the White Queen seems a stretch; she wasn't so much evil as narrow-minded. How about Queen Cor? (There don't seem to be many evil female characters from outside Oz, do there?) I'd have guessed "sailor" or "sailorman" for the missing word on page 156. And I can't really take credit for noticing it myself; Joyce Odell pointed it out to me. Joyce: Baum did do a bit of foreshadowing of the Zog segment in the first part of the book - there are references to the danger from the devilfish, and I think even a mention of Zog at some point - but they aren't really sufficient to build up tension. Zog wants to do more than just kill the mermaids; he wants to torture them and break their hearts. It's true that he seems to treat his servants/slaves reasonably well in the course of the book, but I think there's a strong implication that when he gets upset about something he's as likely as not to have one of them tortured and killed. Certainly all of them except Sacho - who's constitutionally incapable of it - seem to fear him, and if he'd never done anything bad to any of them that doesn't seem likely. Any of the language mavens out there know - is "octopi" really the plural of "octopus"? I mean, the word looks like an after-the-fact Latinization of a Greek "octopos" (because most Greek nouns in "-os" went to a Latin "-us"); if it had been Latin in the first place it would have been "octopes". I know I have an instinctive urge to make the plural "octopodes", but instincts aren't always that reliable. 9/26: Gordon: Interesting. Then it seems that R&L corrected the error on pages 95 and 105 in their 1922 edition, but went back to the error when they reprinted in 1970 or so. I wonder why? (I guess they lost the plates from the later edition and went back to the original?) Patrick: Alas, I don't have either of the versions of YEW that you need info on. I wish! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:28:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-25-97 Hi Dave, My copy of Michael O. Riley's _Oz and Beyond; the Fantasy World of L. Frank Baum_ arrived today. I've plunged right in and believe this is going to be most enjoyable. Robin Olderman's notes about reversed lines in _The Sea Fairies_ do help distinguish between the original printing and later ones (until the Books of Wonder photofacsimile from the original edition). The error she points out on page 156 appears never to have been corrected in any edition. I hope other Ozzy Digest readers will point out anomalies and errors of the sort Robin has called to our attention. They're a big help to the bibliographers. Cheer! Peter Hanff ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:18:57 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-25-97 Sender: "Melody G. Keller" Jodel: >He treats the ones that he saves very well by all accounts. The "evil" of Zog, somehow does not come across particularly well.< This proves Zog is a more intelligent villain than Ruggedo. It has been said that Adolf Hitler, in person, seemed just like an ordinary nice guy to the casual observer who didn't know what he stood for. (Right, Steve?) It is also said that smiling villains can be scarier than outrightly nasty ones. Zog would have set himself up for an outright mutiny had he been as nasty to his servants as Ruggedo was to his Nomes. The Nomes did not exactly miss Ruggedo when he was deposed in "Tik-Tok." (Of course, Zog's servants didn't miss him when King Anko did him in, either. Oh well...) There may be an ugly-evil (Zog), good-beautiful (mermaids) bias in "Sea Fairies." But Zog, as I recall, is actually rather handsome in the face and hands--the parts of him that he lets show. The "rest" of him that he hides under his robes is hideous, though. Baum could be using the good-beautiful, evil-ugly stereotype to show what sort of villain Zog is--he appears benign, hiding his evil nature. I'd consider evil anyone who tried to freeze or boil *me* to death--as Zog tries to do to his mortal and mermaid prisoners. But it might've been more unbiased to let Zog be an entirely handsome villain like Mrs. Yoop or Wutz or the Mangaboos, and let some of the mermaids be plain or ordinary. By the way, though Anko of "Sea Fairies" is an extreeeeemly long (more than a mile) sea serpent, the King Anko of the Oz Kids cartoon looks to be an extremely stubby eight feet(?). Otherwise, the cartoon did a great job of portraying him--complete with underwater sounds and Marc Lewis as his voice. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:39:18 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-26-97 Sender: "Melody G. Keller" Gordon: >The monstrousness of his body, carefully concealed beneath the folds of his embroidered golden robe, corresponds to the monstrousness of his twisted mind, likewise concealed beneath a veneer of refined manners. There is a degree of psychological horror here that makes Mombi and the Wicked Witch of the West look positively homespun in comparison.< You said it even better than I. By contrast, King Anko, in his own way, is no more handsome than Zog--yet this does not warp his mind or heart. In fact, Anko is proud of *his* lengthy snakelike body (unlike Zog) and shows it off to Trot and Cap'n Bill. King Anko likes who and what he is, and, in contrast to Zog, is a hero instead of a villain. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:55:18 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest A couple of questions about the pronunciation of names in _Sea Fairies_: Since "Aquareine" brings together Latin and French components to produce "Queen of the Water", am I right in assuming that the name should be pronounced "Aqua-rain", with the final syllable more or less as in French? Or do the rest of you anglicize it to "Aqua-reen"? Trot's real name ("Mayre") looks as if it is a variation of Mary, but pronounced May-ree--a little like the way Murray used to pronounce Mary's name on the old Mary Tyler Moore show. This is the first time I have encountered that spelling, though. Does anyone know if this variant was in use at the turn of the century? Craig: I haven't received my copy of Riley's book yet either, but I imagine that his bibliography is more extensive, or in any event more up-to-date, than the one in _The Annotated Wizard of Oz_, which was published 24 years ago. Nathan: I really enjoyed your new Web page on Ruggedo, and that is a *great* collection of quotations. I'd forgotten about that gem from _Kabumpo_: "I've had a hard life; hard as those rocks. Everybody's been against me from the very start, and all because I'm so little." --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:56:28 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-25-97 Gray / Green chess set: Gray is still more black than green is, but I guess it's not too bad. Green and White would work better, as Ruth suggested. We would also want to get pieces that undergo a transformation midway through the game, at which point they get all their magical abilities (or lose them all)--maybe that;s too complicated, though. Incoherent as usual, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 18:41:53 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones Scott H: Scott Olsen was the originator, who already knew of the error. Bob C: IIRC, most of the "tour de Oz" takes place in the Quadling country. The drawing of the munchkin-style houses must have been an error. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 08:54:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-25-97 X-Authentication-warning: Joyce-Perkins.tenet.edu: robino owned process doing -bs AOL: Once again, I'm not receiving the DIGEST on AOL. Somebody please send it to me. I've received both 9/25 and 9/26 on my tenet account, but not on AOL. I do not check my tenet account often. Rumors have it that tenet is going belly up. No surprise. They've told us for months that we'd have to get a new server. I like AOL, but I also like the DIGEST. SEA FAIRIES: Looks like we all remember the same lines from it. Zog is very reminiscent of Milton's description of Satan in _Paradise Lost_. I've always thought Baum had that description in mind. Gordon: Tell us more about the "holding the mirror" picture. Please. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:58:42 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: TINMAN COSTUME???? Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' , "'robino@tenet.edu'" Rodney, Good question! I'm going to forward your note to the Ozzy Digest group, as someone there may have an answer. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot Webmaster The International Wizard of Oz Club -----Original Message----- From: rodney herbert [SMTP:carrod@shoalhaven.net.au] Sent: Friday, September 26, 1997 6:29 AM Subject: TINMAN COSTUME???? Dear Sir, I'm wondering if you know of any where that I may be able to purchase a patten for making a TINMAN costume, I've been searching everywhere for a few years now. carrod@shoalhaven.net.au ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************