] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 31 - APRIL 1, 1997 *** |@ @| *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 1, 1997 *** | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] (No Digest for the 31th... -- Dave) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 06:21:28 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 Gordon, Re: "Speaking of the Gump, not to mention a much more recent Gump: I see that the OED defines a gump as "a foolish person, a dolt" and gives citations back to 1825." There once was a comic strip character named Andy Gump who was quite a foolish person. I don't know if he was in existence in 1825 (rather doubt it) but if there are any OZ connections I can't make them. Baum's Gump is definitely not "a foolish person, a dolt". Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 09:17:24 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 Melody: We originally received seven manuscripts. John tells us we'll be getting eighteen more soon. There will be more than this, I'm sure, since we haven't a count yet on the ones that will come in with a 3/31 postmark. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 11:52:26 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 1) I wonder whether "macaroni penguin" is related to the 18th-century sense of the word: "in the very latest (maybe even over the top) style" -- which, for anyone who doesn't already know, is the meaning of the word in "Yankee Doodle", the intention being a laugh at the expense of the poor hick who thinks one lousy feather makes him some kind of fashion god. 2) I have always assumed, even from childhood, that the Sawhorse's logic in counting seventeen by two's fossilizes an old school rote formula that runs: "Counting by twos: two, twice two is four, six, eight, ten....". It is not unheard of for paedegogical paradigms (Hey! I used the word correctly!) to fall out of fashion. Perhaps some people on the Digest are old enough to remember: a, e, i, o, u, and sometimes y & w (It's true; there are a very, very few rare English words of Welsh origin, such as "cwm" [an English borrowing with the same Celtic root as "coomb", which is itself one of the dozen or so British {i.e., proto-Welsh} words to survive from pre-Anglo-Saxon, pre-Roman times into modern English], in which "w" is used as a vowel.) or ST. WAPNIACL. (If no-one can remember, or guess, who the old saint is, I'll update on a later posting.) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:41:19 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Jeremy: One problem with your penguin joke was that penguins live in the Antarctic, not the Arctic. (Also, it was a bad joke, but you probably realized that.) Gordon: The Scarecrow was probably incorrect when he stated that Glinda had the Golden Cap. After all, if Glinda fulfilled her plans at the end of _Wizard_, the Scarecrow would have been in the Emerald City by the time that Glinda gave the cap to the Monkey King. Death might be mentioned more in _Wizard_ than it is in _Land_, but it is mentioned many times in both. Someone once mentioned that, when death is mentioned in _Land_, it is in a more humorous way than in _Wizard_, with Jinjur's threat to turn the Wogglebug into goulash cited as an example. On Fairies: In some fairy lore, it is mentioned that fairies are weak against iron. Is this true for Oz fairies? Can anyone recall a time when Ozma came into contact with iron? -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:27:15 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-24 thru 27-97 3/24: Serena: We know that Dorothy had traveled all night on the train from San Francisco, although the train had been traveling unusually slowly so it might not have gone terribly far. The fact that she caught the train in San Francisco suggests to me that Hugson's ranch is somewhere in the Salinas Valley; I think that trains for the Central Valley left from Oakland in those days (and may still, for all I know). Gili: Welcome back! I missed you! I guess the connection between Disney's THE RESCUERS and Sharp's MISS BIANCA is closer than that between the movie and her book of the same title, but it's still not a very close connection. My mother has had white hair since she was about 40, as far as that goes. I was thinking more of the wrinkles than the hair when I said that the GWN (who wasn't a farmer's wife) sounds more like someone in her 70s than a mere 60. 3/25: Earl: It sounds like the person who picked those trail names at the Sunday River Ski Resort has even read the books, since Eureka and Lost Princess aren't in the movie. Scott H.: My copy of RETURN TO OZ was dubbed by a friend off of their laserdisc, so it's about as good as it could be. (Don't tell Disney...) I don't think Baum intended Dorothy's diction in OZMA to portray her as a "hick"; I think he was trying (not very successfully) to make her sound like a little girl who has problems with big words. This continues through EMERALD CITY to some extent, but after that his child characters speak fairly normally most of the time. I don't think anything you've said about your MS would disqualify it on its face, but it doesn't sound much like it follows the spirit of Baum, which is one of the judging criteria. Not having read it, though, I may have a completely wrong impression of what it's like. I trust it's in the mail by the time you read this; if it's not, _that_ would disqualify it. Ruth: Anyone who cuts the color plates out of a reprinted Oz book shouldn't _discard_ the text - give it to a library or a charity thrift shop or some such, where some kid will be able to buy it for a quarter or two and maybe get hooked on Oz. Jeremy: I'm sure that BoW "has a lot of money" as compared to BEOO or the IWOC, but not by comparison with Borders. Bear: There's a difference between an excuse and a reason. Dorothy's bad experience with witches doesn't _excuse_ her callous attitude toward liquidating Mombi (or Notta, if he'd really been a witch), but it may _explain_ it. Dave: There's a character called "Mombi" in RETURN TO OZ, though she's not the same character as Mombi in LAND (being closer to Langwidere). 3/26: There was evidently a Digest for that date, but I didn't get a copy of it even on your re-send, Dave. Did you send it, and in any case, could you try one more time? 3/27: Melody: You'd probably make Dave Hardenbrook and me both happier if you'd call him "Dave" and me "David", instead of the other way round. Craig: March 26 was supposed to be the kickoff date for discussing LAND, so you're not premature. I agree that the plot of the book is haphazard - pretty much the classic "idiot plot", meaning that if the lead characters would stop acting like idiots for five minutes, the story would end right there. I noted that in the first chapter, Tip refers to his having had the ague "last year". This appears to be pretty conclusive evidence that human illness had not been abolished in Oz prior to Ozma's accession, and if illness hadn't been abolished, then aging and death probably hadn't either, though that's inference and not conclusive. Also, something that bothered me even when I first read the book at age 8 or so - starting at one-half is no help in counting to seventeen by twos. It's true that one is twice one-half, but counting by twos is an arithmetic progression, not a geometric one. If you want to count to seventeen by twos you have to start at minus one. (Or just start with one in the first place.) Jeremy: IWOC dues are currently the same whether new or renewal. I don't remember it ever being different, but I can't swear to that. One can presumably mention the Narnia books as books, in the same way one can mention the MGM movie as a movie, without violating copyright. Introducing characters from Narnia, however, would be a copyright violation. Guess that catches me up until I get the 3/26 Digest (not to mention 3/28-30, if there have been such Digests). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:27:16 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-28-97 Stephen, Bob, Nathan & others: Thanks for reminding me. Yes! Jack does live in a pumpkin patch in _Road_ in order to have a ready supply of heads. I had completely forgotten. I am very pleased that our Digest discussions will result in my rereading of the entire canon! Jeremy: Sorry to mystify you. I must have confused who wrote what about _Wicked_ and _Barnstormer_. Scott: Denslow's Dorothy looks more like a brunette than a blonde to me. Dave: Did I jump the gun in discussing _Land_? This leisurely schedule is fine with me since it gives me time to do other reading. BTW, I haven't yet heard from AOL's Postmaster about my problems receiving the Digest. It's been over a week now since I received a Digest that wasn't resent. Today is Easter Sunday, and the last Digest I received was Good Friday. Was there a Saturday Digest? And did you receive the transcript of my communication with AOL's TechLive Support? Are other people on AOL still having problems? I know that Dick Randolph has finally quit. He sent me his new email address. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:42:44 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 Gordon: I'd imagine the Monkeys, after being the slaves of the WWW, preferred to be the servants of Glinda--for security, sort of. That is, they had been slaves to anyone who had the Cap for so long that they couldn't imagine any other existence, and they knew Glinda would only do what was best for them. Nathan: I'm with you there--about making puns only I appreciate. That is, only the Digest and I appreciate them. (Thanks, guys.) Anyone: Out of curiosity, what gives someone a right to do a SPOILER? I'm just curious--does one have to resemble Jack the most distinctly, or what? I agree with Dave's method of of 17-by-two's counting. (I think--I'm afraid was much too complicated for me, a mere college student . . .) After all, when we count by ones, we start with one. So when we count to ten by twos, why do we always start with two? Unless there's an unspoken "zero" in front of any counting sequence . . . Until my next posting, Jeremy Steadman P.S. Has anyone noticed I try to give a different closing each posting? I'm not sure why--I guess I like variety. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:48:23 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 > From: Jeremy Steadman > > Concerning IWOZ subscriber rates: Can I pass for 17 or under if I > shave my beard off and make my voice sound higher? [I don't think so] Oh, well. How is > the Bugle looking lately, by the way? > I think it looks very good. There is much more color than before. Both the inside and outside covers are color and there is a color centerspread. Bill Stillman's approach is very visual. The Winter 1996 issue is now out. For the scholar collectors there is an Bib. Baum about L. FRANK BAUM'S JUVINILE SPEAKER/BAUM'S OWN BOOK FOR CHILDREN. There is a very critical article on DOT/WIZ, which could serve as a starting point for Digest discussions of that book. There is a piece on E. Copelman, and her illustrations. There are reviews of books and videos, and much more. > From: "Estelle E. Klein" > > If anyone is interested, I've met a Russian book dealer, i.e., he is > Russian and he just sells Russian books to the Russian community here in > Colorado, doing this from his home. He has a few hard back and large soft > cover Russian oz books- some by Volkov and some by Baum...all in Russian. > If anyone is interested please contact me by e-mail. The hard back > books-which are new and have beautiful illustrations- run between 15 and 20 > each. > Does he have THE EMERALD RAIN? Noone except Gili has been able to get a copy as far as I know. Please let us know. > From: Gordon Birrell > Some observations on _The Marvelous Land of Oz_: > > 1) The Golden Cap: during the trip to the Tin Woodman's castle, the > Scarecrow tells Jack that "the Winged Monkeys are now the slaves of > Glinda the Good, who owns the Golden Cap that commands their services." > At the end of WWoO, however, Glinda states that she is using her three > wishes to transport the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Lion to their > respective realms, after which she will turn the Cap over to the head > monkey and deliver all of the monkeys from slavery. I assume this is > another of Baum's little slips, but it would be interesting to know if > anyone has come up with an adroit explanation for the discrepancy. > The Scarecrow has a leaky memory? > Craig: at the end of _Land_ Baum says that Jack Pumpkinhead remained > with Ozma to the end of his days and did not spoil as soon as he had > feared, but in _Road_ Dorothy encounters Jack in the best of health. Baum intended MARVELOUS LAND to be his last Oz book. Later he intended EMERALD CITY to be the last Oz book. He just couldn't kill his best cash cow. > I had some further comments about eating beans with a knife and General > Jinjur's brand of feminism, but--enough is enough! > "I Eat my peas with honey. I've Done it all my life. They do taste kinda funny, But it keeps them on my knife." > From: "Melody G. Keller" > Robin & Steve: > > Will you give us a manuscript count after March 31? Bet it has multiplied > greatly since that last count of 5. :-) > As of Friday, John Fricke announced there were 18 new MSS in addition to the seven he had already sent us. That makes 25, with more still to come in. Eleven came in between Monday and Friday. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:30:16 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Jeremy: Maybe you can do like those old airline ads where a woman's two boys walked around on their knees to get the kids rate :-) The BUGLE is looking very well, indeed. At first, with a new editor, I was a little worried that it would shift into total MGM-Judy Garland mode and ignore the written aspect of Oz entirely. That suspicion was unfounded, and Bill Stillman is doing a fantastic job of representing ALL areas of Oz. Gordon: The boring explanation, of course, is that the brainy Scarecrow simply forgot about Glinda's promise to the King, and did not know of the three-service limit. Of course, Glinda could have altered the cap so that the owner (herself) could use it indefinitely, but that seems out of character for Glinda, especially since she said that she wanted to grant the monkeys their freedom. Perhaps the Monkeys were so impressed with Glinda (she is, after all, something special) that they volunteered to serve her without the cap. I forgot if _The Marvelous Monkeys of Oz_ or _The Winged Monkeys of Oz_ mentioned the cap. Can anybody help out? In the non-HACCurate _A Barnstormer in Oz_, after Glinda gives the cap to King Izarndanduz (The iron-handed one), who hides it, but somebody finds it again... The lion's absence is unusual. If the lion had been there, we would have had a very interesting parallel with the first book. However, it is perhaps better in the long run that it did not happen this way. IMHO, it would have set a bad precedent and it's possible that almost all Oz books would be about somebody who journeys around Oz with those same three characters. Death in _Land_: Also, Jinjur deliberately gives full details on how each of Tip's companions will come to their grisly end. counting to 17 by 2's: It's an interesting parallel to the Scarecrow's mangling of the pythagorean theorem in the MGM movie. It would have been easier to simply start at one, which after all IS a natural starting point for any counting sequence. I suspect that the spell simply ignored the one-half part. Gordon, I must confess: I was the second Scarecrow behind the grassy knoll. Dave: Cool program, but you forgot to pass in a pointer to the wish itself! :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:03:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Arithmetic in Oz 1) Gordon, yes, the Sawhorse cheated on his math. 2) Nathan, what does _Wooglet_ say about why the Wogglebug didn't get stomach pains? He started from 0.5 as well. 3) Scott, a generic chapel? What a strange idea! What could cause that? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:06:40 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: oz Can any of you teachers help??? Jim V. -----Original Message----- From: Alayne1@aol.com [SMTP:Alayne1@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, March 30, 1997 5:29 PM Subject: oz I would like to know where I could find the script for The Wizard of Oz as well as any motivational materials to teach elementary school children. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Alayne, reading specialist ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 07:38:41 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 3/28 Digest, Scott refers to an event in Farmer's _Barnstormer_, saying, That passage in the _Barnstormer_ book is so innocuous that I did not remember it and had to search to find the reference (in chapter 32). Hardly anyone's definition of pornographic. Could it be that we read different editions? Now if one were referring to the hero's relations with the Quadling lady he married, the matter is a little more open to interpretation -- but not, of course, here. :-) Dave, your naming of the WWE as "Old Sand-Eye" begs an explanation. (The name would seem to be more appropriate for the WWW, who looks like she might have had a speck of Deadly Desert sand blown into her left eye.) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:18:40 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 Jeremy: >I guess Jack's heads weren't the retainers of his memories--it must have been the wood that makes up his body. I'd imagine the Powder of Life which enlivened him "wired" him that way. so to speak.< His pumpkin patch could be descended from seeds from his original pumpkin head, too. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:20:47 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Hanff Subject: No Ozzy Digest (fwd) Cc: Peter Hanff , Bill Stillman Good morning Dave, It was good to talk with you Saturday afternoon (although I fear I may have awakened you from a nap). Bill Stillman, editor of The Baum Bugle and an AOL user, has for about ten days received no Ozzy Digests. I noticed that others were having a problem so I suggested that Bill write to you directly. His message was returned as undeliverable. I'll try from my end. Peter ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:34:42 -0500 (EST) From: TheBBugle@aol.com Subject: No Ozzy Digest Peter: My message to Dave re. no Ozzy Digest was returned undeliverable! Could you contact him on my behalf, or do you think this is indicative of a greater systems problem? Thanks, Bill ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:48:35 -0500 (EST) From: Ozgrif@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Time for a couple o' questions? Has there ever been any mention of different characteristics in the Munchkins , Gilkins, Winkies, Quadlings or Oz citizens? Are Munchkins shorter than Winkies? Does one have beards..ie dwarf like or pointy ears? I know about the different colors but is that all there is or are there any other major differences? How about resources? Is one area known more for farming or mining or wood working? Is there any type of monitory system? Thanks for all the info of the WW's. That will help in my future stories, also the name of the GWN. Also for those asking about ordering info on my comic, OZ, you can write to Caliber Comics, 225 N. Sheldon Rd., Plymouth MI., 48170 or call 1-888-22COMIC and get all the available back issue information. They also do a neat version of Peter Pan called "The Lost" and an updated version of War of the Worlds. Both good reads. OZ #20 should be out in about three weeks and the news may be grim for both Jin Jur and Jack Pumpkinhead...pum pum... ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Ralph Griffith ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 12:29:55 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 I just want to say everything I was concerned about are relatively minor portions of the story, which is not much different in nature from The Oz Kids, only with much older kids who are much more realistic and unpredictable, well rounded as opposed to the typage Carroll uses, so I don't think there should be too much concern. I had it postmarked on the last day. It cost nearly $40 to triplicate and almost $10 to put in the mail. But I got it postmarked on the 31st so I'm safe. I keep wanting to talk about it because all my MOPPeTs are in there, and if I start talking about them, I'll give away which is mine, if I haven't already. I liked the commentary on Dorothy/Notta Bit More. When I first read CLoO about ten years ago (and never again, unfortunately) than scene made me laugh out loud. It's interesting to see that might have been more than a joke. BTW, does anyone have a Dover John Dough they want to sell? I didn't know they had made this until I found it at a prof's house when he hosted an Oscar party, which is one reason I saw Walter (RTO) Murch and not Garland. The other is I don't have cable and can't watch A&E. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:51:44 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 Is there something about the 1902 play that says Boq's first name is Peter. I thought this was in the annotated Wizard, but I see now in the Oz Scrapbook one called Peter Pop. Maybe I just misread this, so can anyone clear it up. BTW, If I'm not mistaken, Eric Shanower put Imogene in Giant Garden. Has anyone put in Trixie Tryfle, the Lady Lunatic, Sir Dashemoff Daly, Sir Wiley Gyle, or King Pastoria II (as opposed to Pastoria, Ozma's father, who is clearly not the same character)? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 14:17:17 -0800 From: ozbot Subject: Ozzy Digest stuff Well, my manuscript is away! I know I waited until the last possible second, so hopefully the PO Box in New York won't be overflowing TOO much in the next couple of days! Oh, how I wish we could discuss our books! Oh well. Perhaps the judges could give us some idea on when the winner will be decided? I was looking over the contest rules again, but it doesn't say. The only thing it says is that it mss. will be returned in 1999. Does this mean we have to wait two years before knowing the winner? One of the bad things that happened was that one of my chapter files got corrupted, and it was written too recently to be on my backup. Oh, the frustration of trying to remember what you've written! Good luck to everyone! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 00:33:17 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz To: Dave Hardenbrook Non-Ozzy but I can't resist: Earlier today Ozma, Dorothy, Betsy and Trot walked out onto the highest balcony of the palace and sang to the crowd this song: "Bear down, Arizona. Bear down, Red and Blue. Go! Go! Wildcats Go! Arizona... Bear DOWN!" --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 21:18:56 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MANY "GUMPS": No one has mentioned Forrest Gump yet! :) Gump: Actually, Forest Gump is the wood where my species lives... :) FROM _WIZARD_ TO _LAND_: Our BCF discussion has kind of made a nice smooth transition on its own from _Wizard_ to _Land_ without official announcement from me... I hope it is always like this... :) I now have a very important _Land_-related question...What ***DID*** the Wogglebug say???? :) WWE: Earl wrote: >Dave, your naming of the WWE as "Old Sand-Eye" begs an explanation. (The >name would seem to be more appropriate for the WWW, who looks like she >might have had a speck of Deadly Desert sand blown into her left eye.) It's a long story, but basically it emerged as part of an inside joke in a short story I wrote before _Locasta_ which not only explained how the Adepts pre-arranged the crushing of the WWE but also established the mother-daughter relationship between the WWE and the arch-villianess in _Locasta_...Realizing that "Sand-Eye" should be indicative of something, I recently formed the MOPPET that she was narcoleptic, and indeed that she had paused her quest for the herbs of uglification for Nimee Aimee to take a snooze, and which time somebody's house landed on her. BOOK CONTEST: Danny wrote: >Oh, how I wish we could discuss our books! Oh well. Can the people who have submitted manuscripts E-mail me privately and tell me so? There's something I'd like to say to those who along with me are bursting to discuss their entries... :) >Perhaps the judges >could give us some idea on when the winner will be decided? I was looking >over the contest rules again, but it doesn't say. The only thing it says >is that it mss. will be returned in 1999. Does this mean we have to wait >two years before knowing the winner? I second this request to know when we might expect an announcement of the winner.. AOL???: Well, the AOLer's are *STILL* not getting the Digest!!! As an experiment, in today's Digest I'm moving a few AOL address from BCC: to CC: fields, and we'll see if THAT makes a difference... -- Dave ====================================================================== ======================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 2, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:34:14 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Dave: I am mightily impressed with your use of programming language to set up the complicated maneuver of counting by two's from one to seventeen. Still, the question remains of establishing 1 as the initial integer in a progression that proceeds by two's. Doubling 1/2 actually sets up a different series than the one the Sawhorse comes up with, if you follow the old rule that Rich (?? you didn't sign your name) cited: >I have always assumed, even from childhood, that the Sawhorse's logic >in counting seventeen by two's fossilizes an old school rote formula >that runs: "Counting by twos: two, twice two is four, six, eight, >ten....". According to this formula, you could indeed reach 17 as follows: "Counting by twos: one-half, twice one-half is one, two, three, four, five, six, . . . seventeen." Also Dave: I was referring to Forrest Gump when I wrote "a much more recent Gump"; guess I shouldn't have been so oblique. Melody: Great idea about Jack's new heads being descended from the seeds of his original head! Danny: I agree with you about Jinjur's brand of feminism. Any true feminist would cringe at these totally unreconstructed women with their love of chocolates and caramels, their fear of mice, their knitting needles, their laziness, their uncontrolled greed for jewelery. Jinjur's plans for doing away with the Woggle-Bug (death by cooking--turning him into a spicy goulash) is further evidence of her inability to get beyond conventional feminine thinking. All this is a far cry from the women who struggled with great courage and dignity, and often at considerable personal risk, to secure women's right to vote. Since Baum had close associations with the suffragette movement, he must have created Jinjur as an awful example of how *not* to go about securing women's rights. Still, it's unfortunate that his characterization of Jinjur played (plays) right into the hands of those who would dismiss the feminist movement as a peevish and petty revolt against the natural order of things. Incidentally, here is how Baum describes Jinjur's uniform: ". . . her silken waist being of emerald green and her skirt of four distinct colors--blue in front, yellow at the left side, red at the back and purple at the right side." We later hear that the green waist represents the Emerald City and the other sections refer to the colors of the four quadrants of Oz. Yes, but! If blue, representing the Eastern quadrant of the Munchkins, is in front, then yellow, representing the Western Winkies, should be in back, not on the left; purple, representing the northern Gillikins, should be on the left side, not the right; and red, representing the southern Quadlings, should be on the right side, not in back. Perhaps Baum was suggesting that Jinjur is as wrongheaded about Oz geography as she is about everything else. On the Wizard's "suspicious" action of eating beans with a knife: I'm curious to know whether the younger members of the Digest have heard about that rule of etiquette that warns you against using a knife to eat beans or peas. I remember being very puzzled about that rule when I was growing up. It apparently means that you shouldn't use the knife to shovel the beans or peas onto your fork instead of daintily lifting them up with the fork alone. It's amusing that the Wizard's disregard for this rule marks him as a person of potentially questionable character--but does anyone take the rule seriously these days? Or even know about it? --Gordon Birrell ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 12:30:59 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-31-97 Does anyone have a MOPPeT as to what happended to Jinjur's husband. I'm sure we all know Ralph's, that Kaliko transformed him into a pink ornamental squirrel, and smashed him on the ground. I don't see anything in the canon to support this, other than that Jinjur seems like she's retired by TWoO, when she has no husband. Perhaps she's gotten over this grief by then. I played Scraps in my novel amazingly like Griffith does, but at least the main character notes her behavior is unusual, a little less bouncy than usual. Scott ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:44:28 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-31-97 Jeremy: That SPOILER pun was downright rotten! Aaron: Generic churches aren't particularly peculiar. Just Unitarian. Ralph:Characteristics of Winkies, etc. Everyone knows that Winkies and Quadlings are superior in intelligence to all other Ozites. ;) Rob-Roy MacVeigh showed Boq's name as "B. Wright Boq." I've always loved the pun. Contest: Steve, Barbara, and I will know the top three choices by this summer. The final choice should be made by the end of the year. batch has provided us with some very entertaining reading. STRONG writing skills abound. I'm impressed (and relieved). Also, thank you for having, for the most part, refrained from mentioning much about the content of your entries. I really don't want to know whose ms I'm reading. --Robin ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:34:40 -0800 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-31-97 COUNTRY PRIDE > Time for a couple o' questions? Has there ever been any mention of > different > characteristics in the Munchkins , Gilkins, Winkies, Quadlings or Oz > citizens? I think we talked about this a while back-- what was the consensus? I don't remember! As far as the four lands go, it's MOPPeT that Munchkin Country is the more farm-like, and Winkies is the more craftsman-like. At least, their leaders would probably tend toward those sensibilites-- Boq as a farmer and Nick Chopper needing Tin Smiths. Gillikin Country always seemed more wild and overgrown, at least with Baum. There were a lot of giant animal forests and such. I guess the same is true for Quadling, although Quadling seemed populated by more magical type wild creatures. The Hammerhead country, Hoppers and Horners, Fluttercomjigs (sic?) Bunbury and Utensia and all of that. With Thompson, though, she spotlights all the mini-cities and settlements much more than Baum-- WIth Baum, his characters wander through forests and countryside for long periods of time. Thompson moves her characters through them and into the next available weird city as soon as possible. MONEY IN OZ? Is there any way we could get Eric's great article on this subject to Ralph? WHEN I WAS SEVENTEEN Hm. I had the same experience with feeling uncomfortable with the Sawhorse's counting stradegy. As a kid, I was excited beacuse I thought I figured out the "secret" behind the wishing pills-- "just start counting at ONE" my mind was shouting happily. Then they started counting at one-half, and I was a little disappointed. Kind of like picking the wrong suspect in an Agatha Christie novel, which I also seem to do more often than not. Danny ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 19:08:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Pastoria II (Ozzy Digest) 1) Scott, in my (completely unofficial) list of the rulers of Oz, Pastoria (step-father of Ozma) is listed as being Oz Pastoria II (ruled 1826-1861). Barry and I may put Trixie Tryfle in one of the later books of Lurline's Machine, assuming that Pastoria, who she would naturally be paired up with, is PD by then (and considering how long it's taking to write _Grey Witch_, that's quite possible). 2) Dave, the Wooglebug said, "Drink Herkunian Beer!" Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:25:39 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Bob - I thought Gump came from gumption in Sidney Smiths strip, "The Gumps." Your dictionary is much bigger than mine. In any event, I think "The Gumps" started in February 1916, long after our BCF was written. Nathan - I don't know about fairies in general disliking iron but the Sithi can't abide it. :) Jeremy - "A Spoiler" notice is simply a courtesy to others who may not have read a particular book. The Land of Oz p.16 "Mombi met a crooked wizard who resided in a lonely cave in the mountains." Now there's a story line for someone. p. 35 The color thing - everything is purple - grass, trees, houses, fences - Yuk! I have a hard time with purple asparagus. p. 79 Here is the answer to one question. There is only one language in Oz. p. 154 Now why would Baum give tailors nine lives? Curious? p. 262 Apparently the "Deadly Desert" wasn't at this time, because they all walked around in it. p. 276 Another question answered: "All down her back (Ozma's) floated tresses of ruddy gold." The "author's note" is interesting. The book was launched by 1000 little letters from 1000 little girls. It is interesting that Baum changed a fairy girl into a boy in "The Enchanted Island of Yew" which came out in 1903. He must have liked the idea as he changed Ozma into a boy in 1904 in our BCF. Now it will be three more years before "Ozma of Oz" comes out in 1907. Regards, Bear (:<) ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:31:44 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Explanations: While it is fun to figure out clever explanations for things which seem odd, such as the Scarecrow mentioning that Glinda still controlls the Winged Monkeys via the Golden Cap, (and I do this more than anybody), most of the time, it can probbaly be safely assumed that someone (be it the character, the informer, the narrator or the publisher) simply made a mistake. Nobody gets every detail right every time, after all. Not even me :-) (I now wait patiently for the lightning to strike). Conventions: Just in case anybody is curious, is has become customary to refer to David Hulan as "David" and Dave Hardenbrook as "Dave". If their last names ended with different letters, it might be easier, but not everything in this world is easy. Copyrights: Mentioning books or characters in the form of critical analysis or scholarly discussion is not in violation of copyright law, but using others characters in a plot without permission is. Dorothy of the many hairdos: IIRC, Denslow drew Dorothy's hair with lines in it, which usually signifies a brunette or redhead in black and white drawings. Blonde hair is usually done with no internal dithering (to use a computer phrase), so that it appears white in black and white drawings. This, BTW, is how Dorothy appears in later drawings. more counting triviata: Well, there is usually a zero at the beginning of sequences when computers are concerned, but Tip may not have known this. Ralph: Offhand, I can think of a couple of things that were specifically mentioned about the different quadrants of Oz. 1. In _Emerald City_, Omby Amby mentions that the Munchkins and Gillikins= are good fighters. 2. I seem to remember bits and pieces of things mentioning that the different countries all grow and mine things representative of their color. For example, there's gold (plus wheat, butter and pumpkins) in them thar Winkie hills, strawberries and rubies in Quadlingland, etc. 3. I do not recall that the four regions specialized in any industry. Any differences seem to be on a local level. Baum used to mention the Gilikin country as being much more mountainous than the other regions, but as far as I can recall, other authors never really went anywhere with it, and Baum himself never went into much detail. 4. As for cash, I recommend Eric Gjovaag's article about money in Oz in the _Bugle_. I don;t remember which _Bugle_ it was in, but maybe somebody on the digest can help. --Tyler Jones ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:44:07 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-31-97 Nathan: Concerning your valid point about penguins living in the Antarctic, not the Arctic (I should have remembered that all the same!): valid point. Concerning your question about Ozma's possible weakness against a certain metal: wouldn't it be ironic? (You disqualified one joke, can you blame me for countering with another?) David Hulan: You say "I'm sure that BoW "has a lot of money" as compared to BEOO or the IWOC, but not by comparison with Borders"--alas, I am not fortunate enough to live near the store you mention. (Now that I no longer live in Texas, I don't even live near the Mexican Borders, either...) By the way, just because Tip says he has had the auge "last year" doesn't mean a great deal--in Oz, since the weather does not change considerably year-round (I don't think), it's likely he lost track of time (and since he was living under Mombi's dictation, this is even more likely). Tyler: I agree (about the reason Baum wanted variety rather than nearly-identical books series-through)--and it would have made the series incredibly boring! Dave: You mention that in an attempt to reach our AOL friends, you are "moving a few AOL addresses from BCC to CC fields. BCC is the abbreviation for Berry College Courses here--does this mean you think I am to blame? I hope not--I so hate to make enemies (and if my sister calls you with information to the contrary, she's lying). So long everyone-- --Jeremy Steadman [[[I may insert some quotes here at some point]]] ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 23:14:26 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest David: The character of Mombi in "Return to Oz" seemed to be an attempt to mix Mombi and Langwidere. She had a collection of heads, but she was also a witch who had possession of the Powder of Life. Aaron: _Wooglet_ suggests that it was the Wogglebug's strong stomach that allowed him to swallow the pill without a pain. Ralph: The color schemes are the major differences between the four major nations of Oz. Other aspects of the country are related to the color schemes. For instance, the Winkie Country is known for gold mines, peaches, and pears, while the Quadling Country is famous for strawberries. There may also be differences in speech patterns between the countries, since Wutz guesses that Nox came from the Munchkin Country because of the way he talks. Each of the four major countries, however, is divided into many smaller countries, each of which has its own unique culture. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 97 23:47:58 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Jeremy wrote: >You mention that in an attempt to reach our AOL friends, you are >"moving a few AOL addresses from BCC to CC fields. BCC is the >abbreviation for Berry College Courses here--does this mean you think >I am to blame? I hope not--I so hate to make enemies (and if my >sister calls you with information to the contrary, she's lying). Jellia: BCC also stands for Bank of Credit and Commerce [International]... It's *their* fault! Thank you, Jellia! Seriously, in the relevant context it means "Blind Carbon Copy", and it is used to "hide" a list of E-mail addresses...Back in days of yore, Delphi didn't support the BCC: field, so that I had to put everyone's addresses in the "To:" field, which meant that every Ozzy Digest everyone received was preceeded by the 100-odd E-mail addresses of everyone on the Digest, and very few people liked *that*. But with BCC:, all the addresses are hidden. I thought that the problem the AOLers were having might be connected to the BCC: field, but after sending a bunch of diagnostic test messages to them, such has proved not the case...Now I'm wondering if the size of the Digest is responsible...My current-and-to-be-tested MOPPET is that the AOL mailer looks at the Digest's size, and at the fact it's a mass mailing, assumes from that that the Digest is a spam, and discards it...(!) Jellia: Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of "What's the AOL Administrators Got Against Oz???"! :) -- Dave ======================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 3, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 07:20:44 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Noted in the 3/31 _USA Today_ Life section Lifeline column by Arlene Vigoda: "DOROTHY FOUND: Jessica Grove [acute accent over the e] of Columbus, Ohio, has been tapped to play Dorothy in the New York production of _The Wizard of Oz_. The 15-year-old will match wits with Roseanne, who'll portray the Wicked Witch of the West in the 48-sow run, starting May 7 at Madison Square Garden." [Quoted in its entirety. Accompanied by a picture showing a pretty Jessica in Judy Garland dark hair, braids and costume.] As to regional differences among the people of the four main Oz countries, the Munchkins appear to be the most prosperous. This is due to their greater industry and intelligence, or course. :-) Dave, the hexs are back in the 4/2 Digest. Indeed, one could say that the issue has considerable depth, as all the divider lines appear as =3D=3D=3D... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 06:44:52 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 DaveH47, About BCC: "Seriously, in the relevant context it means "Blind Carbon Copy"", in predeluvian times that was the case ;-). Since the demise of carbon paper it has come to indicate "Blind Courtesy Copy". Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 11:11:28 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Scott: I don't know what happened to Jinjur's husband. Maybe he tired of living with her, and left, like Jol Jemkiph Soforth left his wife (who was named Dede, according to _Queen Ann_). I'm pretty sure that Kalko wasn't involved in the disposal of Jinjur's husband. Danny: The Fuddles live in Fuddlecumjig, and there is another group of Quadlings known as Flutterbudgets. As far as I know, there are no "Fluttercomjigs," unless they are cross-breeds between Fuddles and Flutterbudgets, or something like that. On the Jackdaws' Nest: All right. Here's something that actually pertains to our BCF. Where do people think the jackdaws' nest is located? Haff and Martin place it in Aurissau, while Pendexter (in _Wooglet_) suggests that it is in New Mexico. The Scarecrow thinks that the Gump has flown into the Great Outside World, but there is a possibility that it flew to another part of Nonestica, with which the Scarecrow was unfamiliar. It is true that the nest contains dollar bills, but, according to "The Queen of Quok," Quok, which is placed not far from the jackdaws' nest by Haff and Martin, uses dollars and cents as currency. The many treasures in the nest would be more likely to exist in Nonestica than in the Outside World. Anyway, what do you think? Also, why did the Ozites seem to recognize the dollar bills as money, when there is no indication that Oz ever used paper money? Dave: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! The hexadecimals are back! -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 14:54:25 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests, 03-28 thru 03-31-97 AOL is still doing something weird with the Digest, even though other mail to and from Dave seems to go fine. Still, this will catch me up to where I'm only two days behind... 3/28: Steve: So the competition in the Centennial Contest is very strong? (And that's already, with only the first seven MSS read.) Well, I hope that as soon as a particular MS is eliminated from consideration, its author will be informed so that he or she can attempt to place it elsewhere. I can see it taking until 1999 to decide on the final winner, but it shouldn't take that long to eliminate quite a lot of the lesser contenders. (I hope, naturally, that mine will stay in the running all the way. But if it isn't, the sooner I know it the better.) Scott H.: In the color plates of my BoW edition of WIZARD, Dorothy appears to be more of a redhead than anything else. Not flaming red, but sort of chestnut. Definitely not what I think of as brunette (which would be like Ozma in the later books). Farmer has written pornography, but BARNSTORMER is not pornographic. It is, however, an adult novel, with a significant number of sexual references in it. The term "pornographic" is getting thrown around here to an extent that makes me wonder if some people on the Digest have ever seen real pornography. Danny: The Woggle-bug character isn't supposed to be liked. That's not his function in any of the books where he appears. (Including the one I've written.) But I enjoy writing about what a friend on GEnie (back in the good old days of GEnie) referred to as "pain-in-the-ass characters". That's why my first three Oz novels have centered on Bungle, Eureka, and the Professor. Some others that fall into that category include Button-Bright, Queen Ann, Quox, Bilbil (but unfortunately he had a personality change when he was disenchanted), the Frogman, Red Reera, and Kabumpo. None of them are at all evil, even in the mild Ozzy sense, but they all have personality flaws that make them frequently annoying. It's true that the Woggle-bug is largely superfluous to the story of LAND (as you point out, the only significant act he does is to swallow the wishing pill, and it would have had no effect on the story if Tip hadn't gotten cramps from it); he was clearly added with the projected stage production in mind. Bear: >Dave - Did I hear you blow the whistle to start BCF No. 2???? Didn't >thinks so. If you would set a date we wouldn't have people jumping the >gun. I don't think Craig was jumping the gun. Some time ago Dave asked if March 26 would be a good date to start on LAND, and some said yea and nobody said nay. Aaron: There's a reasonable amount of evidence that post-Ozma Ozites stay fairly well in touch with developments in the Great Outside World. This probably includes bringing in books by some magical means, and the Bhagavad-Gita was quite popular in a PB edition when I was in college in the late Fifties (and may be in college circles now, for all I know). Anyhow, Ozamaland's culture seems to derive from India (despite the "Ozamandarin" title that sounds Chinese). So there may well have been Hindus among the early immigrants from our world to Nonestica. I'd consider BARNSTORMER more PG-13 than R, but it's on the borderline. Definitely not X, though. (WICKED, however, is a solid R.) Dave: Allowing too much time for everyone to catch up reading LAND gives those of us who recently reread it for a March 26 start date too much time to forget details. 3/30: Gordon: I agree with the person who said that the Scarecrow simply forgot that Glinda had said she'd give the King of the Winged Monkeys the Golden Cap after he'd granted her wishes. Though I suppose it's possible that the King thought it would be safer with Glinda than anywhere else he could store it; presumably destroying it isn't feasible. The absence of the Lion is probably due to the fact that the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman dominated the stage play (in the persons of Stone and Montgomery), so they were the only major characters from the first book to reappear in the second - which, as several people have remarked, was clearly written as the basis for another play. Note that the only "normal" animals that appear in LAND are the field mice; animals are harder to use on stage. (Or, from the Oz-as-history point of view, the Lion didn't appear in LAND because that was the way it happened!) Nathan: The phrase Baum used about Ozma's hair was "tresses of ruddy gold." Oddly, he said her lips were "tinted like a tourmaline," which is pretty ambiguous. bluish-green. If he wanted to avoid the cliched "ruby" I'd have thought he'd have chosen "garnet" or some other gem that's characteristically red or pink. 3/31: Bob: The Gumps of the comics certainly don't date back to 1825. It's a fairly early comic strip, but it started, as nearly as I can figure from my source, in 1911 or 1912. (So if there's any connection, it's Baum's Gump that inspired the comic Gumps and not vice versa. It's not impossible; "The Gumps" got its start in the Chicago Tribune.) Actually, though, Andy Gump wasn't particularly foolish, and his Uncle Bim Gump was a billionaire. A Kennedy (can't tell if it's John or Eleanor): I'm sure that the "macaroni penguins" who live in the Antarctic got their name from the 18th-century usage of the word, based on the description of them someone posted. There aren't many words where "w" is used as a stand-alone vowel, but it's very common as the second element of a diphthong, especially with "a", "e", and "o". As in "a raw new bow"; it doesn't have its consonantal value in any of those words. I don't remember seeing it with "i" or "u" except in some proper names, but I may be forgetting some examples. St. WAPNIACL rings no bells with me. Nathan: I can't remember any time when Ozma came directly in contact with iron, but her interaction with the blacksmith Rusty Ore in HUNGRY TIGER certainly doesn't give any implication that she was afraid of it, as the fairies/elves are in some stories. (A very good series currently in progress that uses that thesis is Josepha Sherman's "Prince of the Sidhe" - THE SHATTERED OATH and FORGING THE RUNES being the two books that are out so far. I recommend them; I think most Oz fans who like adult fantasy would enjoy.) Craig: See my comment to Scott H. regarding Dorothy's hair color in WIZARD. Steve: I agree. The BUGLE has never looked better during the time I've been an IWOC member (since 1984). Bill Stillman is doing an excellent job all around, but the visual aspect is particularly fine. Tyler: I don't remember if THE WINGED MONKEYS mentioned the Golden Cap, but it certainly isn't used to command them in that book. Aaron: There are generic chapels in a lot of hospitals and airports and the like. Just quiet places for people to go to pray, whatever their religion, assuming that prayer is part of their religion. Maybe Scott's is of that genre. Ralph: Others have probably answered your question in Digests I haven't seen yet, but in case: Aside from Baum's describing the Munchkins Dorothy met early in WIZARD as unusually short, there's no information about physical differences in the inhabitants of the various parts of Oz, and later books frequently make even some Munchkins tall. The Gillikin (note spelling) country is supposed to be the wildest part of Oz, with more forests and mountains than the rest of Oz, and more wild animals. Otherwise, there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference, and there are both wild and agricultural areas in all quarters except the Emerald City area, which is all either agricultural or urban. If by "monitory" system you mean "monetary", Eric Gjovaag had an excellent article in the BAUM BUGLE a couple of issues back (I think the Spring 1996 issue) that covered the subject thoroughly. In some of the books there's a statement that money isn't used in Oz, but that seems to have lasted only a fairly short time, from Ozma's accession at the end of LAND until sometime before LOST KING. After that there are a number of references to money, with "ozzos" and "piozters" being two of the denominations. Scott H.: There is a cow named Imogene in Shanower's GIANT GARDEN, but it's not the cow of the stage WIZARD. I'm sure that Eric chose the name because of the cow in the play, though. And Sir Wiley Gyle appears in THE SPECKLED ROSE OF OZ, by Donald Abbott, from Emerald City Press - though IMHO it's the worst book ECP has published. I don't know enough about the play to know if he's similar to that one; in the book he's a relative of the WWE and WWW. Danny: Good luck with your book, too. Dave: The Woggle-bug said a great many things, but the question was asked in connection with QUEER VISITORS, not LAND. And that covers the Digests I've received so far, at least! (Boy, am I feeling isolated these days...) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:39:31 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 Re Jinjur: Coming from a family with strong pro-feminist feelings, I think that Jinjur had the right idea, but didn't know how to go about it in the best manner. Richard: I have trouble with asparagus of any color--it's just too mushy the ways I've eaten it. About the wizards with nine lives: good point--especially since no one is supposed to age or die in Oz at all . . . Nathan: of the books--and Hollywood is well-known for that. I think we can get no further meaning out of it. Dave: Thanks for the clarification (about BCC fields). And I'm glad to see you've got your signature verse back. By the way, what are CC fields for anyway? --Jeremy Steadman, Oz enthusiast, Oz writer, Oz Digester (sorry) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:57:09 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 I think it is interesting to think about jinjur in modern terms. she is a sort of "feminazi," a radical feminist insistent upon getting even with men. This is the reason, I believe, Baum portrays her this way, suggesting that a 180- is as wrongheaded as anything else. There are some feminists like that today, and some of them are the loudest. I think he showed quite a bit of foresight in his parody. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:59:26 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 Robin, please tell me you got my thich priority mail package!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 21:06:52 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Melody: I finally heard about your web page and went over to take a look. Your pictures are not showing on the screen, because your references to them are in error. You need to take out all the paths in the references and simply call the images directly. Yoicks: The hexadecimals are back. This has been a very weird time for the digest. Gordon: Your analysis of Jinjur's skirt is an interesting parallel to Edmund and Eustace commenting that girls lack an understanding of geography. I can dimly remember my grandmother admonishing me not to use my knife to scoop up food onto my fork, but I haven't thought of it in about 20 years. Scott: I've some people theorize that Jinjur divorced her unnamed husband, or that he was away on a journey (which, it must be admitted, is one of the oldest explanations around). quadrant differences: I seem to remember Baum mentioning that Munchkins like to wear little bells on their hats, but as other people have remarked, each little kingdom seems to contain its own culture and curiosities and their are little if any unifying trends that unite entire quadrants. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 21:16:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Table Manners of the Wizard (Ozzy Digest) 1) Gordon, there's a rule against using the knife to put peas and beans onto the fork? 2) Scott, Barry hypothesized that Jinjur and her husband divorced after _Ozma_. While the squirrel idea is interesting, it does seem a little far-fetched considering that Kaliko is not known to have any magic powers whatsoever. 3) Bear, concerning your notes on _Land_, 1) Dr. Pipt in _Patchwork Girl_ says he is the Crooked Magician who gave Mombi the Powder of Life. I presume that either he was living in the Gillikin Country at the time or Mombi lied about her destination and walked (or self-transformed into a bird and flew) to the Gillikin-Munchkin border. 2) Purple food may be unpalatable, but blue food is really unnatural. Considering that the national coloration isn't always present on things like trees, grass, and mud, maybe it varies with the magic flux. 4) Why shouldn't tailors have nine lives? 6) An solution to the problem of Ozma's changing hair coloring will appear in _Woozy_. 4) Jeremy, I'm not sure about Oz having unchanging weather, as most Oz books don't mention when the events take place (as far as I can recall). Surely it doesn't snow there (often, at any rate, excluding one or two nonhistorical cold spots), but I don't see why the temperature couldn't go as low as 15 or 10 C in winter. I have no idea how hot Oz gets in summer; at any rate, I don't remember any character complaining of heat. Also, Tip, probably did keep track of time while in Mombi's custody. He had to care for a garden, which means he had to be aware of the change in the seasons if he didn't want the crops to be frozen. Come to think of it, since the pumpkins in Mombi's garden were meant to be eaten by the four-horned cow during the winter, that would indicate that at least in pre-Ozmatic Oz there was a seasonal change in temperature. Otherwise the four-horned cow could keep on eating grass (which tends to die in the winter) all year. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 97 00:01:16 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Nathan wrote: >All right. Here's something that actually pertains to our BCF. Where do >people think the jackdaws' nest is located? Haff and Martin place it in >Aurissau, while Pendexter (in _Wooglet_) suggests that it is in New >Mexico... If the IWOC map says Aurissau, I go along...I don't think any of the party, being all magical beings except Tip, could have survived beyond Nonestica... David wrote: >So the competition in the Centennial Contest is very strong? (And that's >already, with only the first seven MSS read.) Well, I hope that as soon as a >particular MS is eliminated from consideration, its author will be informed >so that he or she can attempt to place it elsewhere. I second this request...Also, could someone please confim that my two packages of manuscripts were received OK...??? Now that our BCF is _Land_, I want to ask one of the "biggies" of Ozzy problems...Are Nikidik and Dr.Pipt the same bloke or not????? :) The Digest is "hexed" again???? That's *ALL* we need! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 3, 1997 (ADDENDUM) *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:39:31 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 Re Jinjur: Coming from a family with strong pro-feminist feelings, I think that Jinjur had the right idea, but didn't know how to go about it in the best manner. Richard: I have trouble with asparagus of any color--it's just too mushy the ways I've eaten it. About the wizards with nine lives: good point--especially since no one is supposed to age or die in Oz at all . . . Nathan: To me, the character of Mombi in the movie RTO was simply a bungling of the books--and Hollywood is well-known for that. I think we can get no further meaning out of it. Dave: Thanks for the clarification (about BCC fields). And I'm glad to see you've got your signature verse back. By the way, what are CC fields for anyway? --Jeremy Steadman, Oz enthusiast, Oz writer, Oz Digester (sorry) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 03 Apr 97 16:49:07 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Jeremy wrote to me: >I resent having my lines cut out! When I perform plays this annoys >me to no end (which is why I go on to no end--but that's not the >point). What I meant to say to Nathan was something to this effect... I found the missing line in Jeremy's message...This has happened before with single lines being dropped from people's messages, and I've been stumped at the cause...But today when I ran Jeremy's message through my Digest-generating program in "debugger" mode, I finally pinpointed the bug in the program that was causing the dropped lines and I fixed it. So above is Jeremy's message as it *should* have appeared in today's Digest. My apologies to Jeremy and to all others who have had lines dropped from their messages in the past...I don't think it will happen again... Sawhorse: Hey Dave! Will you stop knocking on me??!! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 4, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 09:37:34 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 > > Anyhow, Ozamaland's culture seems to derive from India (despite the > "Ozamandarin" title that sounds Chinese). So there may well have been Hindus > among the early immigrants from our world to Nonestica. > > Bob: > The Gumps of the comics certainly don't date back to 1825. It's a fairly > early comic strip, but it started, as nearly as I can figure from my source, > in 1911 or 1912. (So if there's any connection, it's Baum's Gump that > inspired the comic Gumps and not vice versa. It's not impossible; "The Gumps" > got its start in the Chicago Tribune.) Actually, though, Andy Gump wasn't > particularly foolish, and his Uncle Bim Gump was a billionaire. > All right: From the Oxford Enlgihs Dictionary (original edition): "Gump . . . dial and U.S. A foolish person, a dolt. [Earliest citation] 1825 JAMIESON, Suupl., Gump, a numskull; a term most generally applied to a female, conveying the idea a great stupidity." > > St. WAPNIACL rings no bells with me. > Nor with me. > > David Hulan > Why do you consider Ozamaland particularly Indian? > From: Dave Hardenbrook: > David wrote: > >So the competition in the Centennial Contest is very strong? (And that's > >already, with only the first seven MSS read.) Well, I hope that as soon as a > >particular MS is eliminated from consideration, its author will be informed > >so that he or she can attempt to place it elsewhere. > > I second this request...Also, could someone please confim that my two > packages of manuscripts were received OK...??? > We who are judges and read the Digest do not receive the MSS until all traces of the authors' identities are removed. One MS that arrived just before we received the first batch had the authors name on each page and John Fricke had the "fun" of removing the names. (We have not yet received that MS.) John supplies us a handwritten title page for each novel with no name attached. Anyhow, WE cannot tell you if your MSS have been received. As of now I have not received the second batch of MSS. As to when or whether the identities of the finalists will be announced, that is not something that Robin or I can determine. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 09:48:11 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_16 X-POPMail-Charset: English Attachment Converted: "c:\Dave\Internet\Archive\AAOZ." ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 12:04:52 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 David, Unfortunately I have seen real pornography. I know the reason you think Barnstormer is not pornographic is because it is not truly explicit. However, the definition of pornography given in mass media studies is broad enought that that scene in Barnstormer could be considered pornographic. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 12:11:44 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 Aaron: Don't blame me for the squirrel. It was Ralph's idea! --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 12:24:47 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 Nikidik and Pipt are not the same person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was watching Stephen Ketten's industrial film _Workteams & The Wizard of Oz_, which uses scenes from the MGM movie as a metaphor for team struggle, and I found what people are calling a hanged man. After Dorothy tells Nick that he would be no worse off than if he hadn't gone, we hear the Witch cackle, and there is a swish-pan to the witch, followed quickly by a cut to a medium shot of her. Before this cut, there is what appears to be , at the corner of Nick's roof, a man hanging from one of the trees. However, on a freeze frame, one can see this is an optical illusion created by the wind moving through the branches. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 12:26:08 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 Scott: Did you mail the thing to *ME*? It should have been mailed to the NYC P.O. Box where John Fricke would take care of it. I don't have the time now to respond to the rest of the DIGEST. My server was down yesterday.... ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 16:16:20 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest David: I tried to revive Bilbil in a story that I wrote. In this story, the Wizard used his Extractor (that cap that he used on Jenny Jump) to remove Bilbil's personality (or is that goatality?) from Bobo. The story wasn't very good, but I think that Bilbil is a character who deserves revival at least as much as Tip and Locasta. Jeremy: It's tailors, not wizards, who are mentioned in _Land_ as having nine lives. Also, death might have existed in Oz during the time of _Land_. I think you left out a line, if not a few lines, in your message to me. Tyler: Yoicks? Does the Master of Foxhounds read this Digest? Aaron: The idea that Jinjur divorced her husband might make the most sense, but it would be the first time that I heard of a divorce in Oz. They don't seem to be very common there. I believe that, in _Emerald City_, Baum states that the Ozian climate is quite stable. Also, in _Enchanted Island_, Humpty states that "Flowers have no season in Oz." It is likely that there are some changes between the seasons, however. In addition to the references in _Land_, Snufferbux (in _Ojo_) is given the bandits' cave as a place to hibernate in the winter. As for snow, Thompson states that there is no snow in Oz in _Grampa_, but this must exclude places like Snow Mountain, Icetown, and the Link. Dave: My opinion on whether Pipt and Nikidik are the same varies. Right now, I would say that they are two different people. I can't think of my reasons for this at the moment. I'd like to see what other people think about this one. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 17:46:53 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 Earl: Life, too, is seen in =3D. However, the 4-03 Digest wasn't. (Luckily.) Re the Jackdaws' nest: Nathan, you suggest that although the Scarecrow thinks it is in the Great Outside Wirld, it may actually be in another part of Nonestica, but I sense an element of doubt in your posting. Personally, I think it very likely, since anywhere outside the Munchkin Country must be the "Great Outside World" to him. Re my comment to Nathan: I resent having my lines cut out! When I perform plays this annoys me to no end (which is why I go on to no end--but that's not the point). What I meant to say to Nathan was something to this effect: "RTO's Mombi / Languidere seems to me no more than a pure mangling of the books--and Hollywood is well known for that. I think we can get no further meaning out of it." Dave, when are we going to stop having the words taken right out of our mouths (keyboards)? Tyler: Re bells on caps--perhaps Baum meant that the average Munchkin that our friend Dorothy met wore bells; the little kingdoms within Munchkinland would still have their own quirks and customary dress. Aaron: Hmmm ... I'd always envisioned Oz as a sort of Camelot where the weather is always pleasant--that it never changes much at all. I do like your idea better, though. Re Nikidik vs. Dr. Pipt: I don't know--perhaps they're sort of a Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde enigma. I do know, however, which one is responsible for my stomach problems. That would be Dr. Pipt, who is forever trying to get me to drink his vile potion, Pipt-o-Dismal! --Jeremy Steadman, PhilOzopher at Large ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:59:19 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Levels of smut: I want to echo what David said yesterday and repeat something I have said many times before. Farmer (and Laumer) have written books that are clearly adult novels and they do contain sexual references, but they do not come anywhere near the definition of "pornography". Believe me, there are things out there that make Farmer and Laumer look like Barney the dinosaur. What happens is that people hear that word associated with Farmer and Laumer and assume that the books are full of hard-core explicit graphical descriptions of sexual activity, and this is not the case. OTOH, if you get these Oz books hoping for this, you will be disappointed. Jeremy: Actually, it was a tailor that had nine lives, according to the Woggle Bug in _Land_. Also, this happened before Ozma ascended the throne and there is plenty of evidence in and out of the FF to suggest that there was aging and death in Oz before that event. The tailor's name, according to the non-FF and non-HACCurate _How the Wizard Saved Oz_ was Obo. Aaron and Dave: Somebody wrote an article in the _Bugle_ concerning the identity of Dr. Pipt and Dr. Nikidik. Some think that they are the same person, and that Dr. Nikidik, for some unknown reason, had to flee the Gillikin country and change his name. Others suggest that Pipt merely got the box from another wizard, never noticed the false bottom, and traded it away to Mombi. I favor the latter theory. Jackdaw's Nest: For pretty much the same reasons as Dave, it is highly likely that the nest was in Nonestica just the other side of the desert. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:11:12 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 LAND: Baum's chauvinistic description of Jinjur was apparently meant as an affectionate dig at his mother-in-law, a major in the suffragette movement. RTO Mombi:Yes, Disney most definitely and deliberately combined Mombi and Languidere. They comboed lots from LAND and OZMA. I remember several IWOC members arguing (fairly politely, but quite determinedly) with Gary Kurtz, the movie's producer when he previewed material from the film for us at a convention...1984, I guess. The purist Ozzies were unhappy with the mixing of elements. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:33:51 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 David: Tourmaline comes in a red variety (Rubellite). Perhaps that's what Baum was thinking. Aaron: Other than ROAD, which takes place in August, and MAGIC (same), if an Oz book has a reference to a time setting, it's almost always going to be in spring...frequently May. I used to mark my Oz books with notations of seasons. And with colored-in illos. And with crayoned stripes,etc., covering some of the pages. And with crayon or marker inside the "o's" on a given page. SHUDDER! Contestants: We haven't worked out details of notification yet. Your concerns sound reasonable to me. Yes, many of the first seven were quite good. Today I received another dozen mss. Neither Steve nor I know whose mss have been received. If we did, it might invalidate the anonymity of some of them. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 21:59:33 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls EARL - "the 48-sow run" This sounds like some type of Arkansas outdoor event! :) Dave and David - It is beyond me why we can't select a day, like the last day of the month or something as the standard, regular, cast in concrete day to start discussion of the BCF. Then there is never a question. Sigh. Some of us just need more order in our lives. Comments? Jeremy - cooking hint of the week. Put your asparagus in the microwave, in a dish covered with saran wrap for about 6 minutes on high (depends on the amount - you may need to experiment a bit). Color is retained as is the crispness. Mushy asparagus is yuk! Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 19:47:40 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Correction in today's Ozzy Digest Digesters, > I have trouble with asparagus of any color--it's just too mushy the > ways I've eaten it. Personally, asparagus is one of my all time favorites. I wait anxiously for the first crop of spring all winter long. If you've found it too mushy, it's been cooked too long. The more tender spears are delicious raw. > By the way, what are CC fields for anyway? The CC (Courtesy Copy) is just that, a message to the primary recipient with a copy to another. Both parties are aware that each other has received a copy. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 97 23:10:21 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Is there someone we could E-mail or ( Horrors! :) ) Snail-Mail like maybe IWOC@neosoft.com who could confirm that our manuscripts were received? The only reason I don't set a "cast in concrete" date to begin a new BCF is because I want to conversation to flow naturally without any shackles... Could Nikidik and Pipt be related, like father-son or something? Once again, I apologize to the AOLers who have had so much trouble getting the Digest... (They're showing a "We at AOL are working to improve our services" TV ad as I write this... :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 5, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 07:34:24 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 4/4 Digest, Bear mentions my typo of <"the 48-sow run" This sounds like some type of Arkansas outdoor event! :) > Bear, I sincerely hope not; I know of nothing good that has come out of Arkansas in recent times. I think that the "sow run" mistype was a Freudian slip on my part and must refer to Roseanne. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:25:42 -0500 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digests Dave: Things are looking up! Received the 4/3 Digest yeaterday, and the 4/2 edition today. Thanks. Also downloaded today's (4/4) from your web site. I'm still missing the 3/28 thru 4/1 Digests, but rather than add to your problems, I'll see if someone else can send me those copies. To my former fellow AOLers, come on over to AT&T! No busy signals, no waiting, no getting cut off without warning. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 07:40:04 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Nikidik/Pipt: There are several references in the FF indicating that they are one and the same person. All I remember now is that they deal with who Mombi got the Powder of Life from. Pornography in Oz: No, I wouldn't classify Farmer and Laumer stuff as "porn," but I do think it's full of cheap shots. Kinda like "Whee! Looka what *I* can get away with!" I haven't read _Barnstormer_ in many years but, IIRC, it tells me all-too-clearly the relative size of the protagonist's genitalia as compared to the Ozian equivalent. Maybe not porn, but... Bear: Funny you should mention how to nuke asparagus. I was planning to experiment with some of that lovely, abundant, relatively cheap asparagus that's flooding our markets lately. I assume you mean 6 min. on high? I'm gonna try it with a bit of water in the bottom of a shallow container to sort of steam it a bit. BTW, did you know that artichokes nuke pretty well? Try 6-8 min. on high. Again, you'll need to experiment. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 07:51:58 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: MS CONTEST--OZZY DIGEST Dave-- John Fricke says that he's received 31 mss so far. I thought some of the DIGESTERS might want to know that. Good luck, everyone! --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:47:27 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Content-id: <23_78_1_860161647> 1) Since no one seems to remember old St. Wapniacl any more.... State Treasury War Attorney General Postmaster General Navy Interior Agriculture Commerce Labor ...the names (for most of the first half of this century) of the cabinet departments in order of their creation, and therefore the order of succession after the Vice-President. (The provision inserting the Speaker of the House and the President Pro-tem of the Senate before the cabinet is also recent.) 2) I always supposed the mishmash of "Land" and "Ozma" that is "Return" was a (more or less) honorable attempt by Disney to get past the -- errr -- unsuitable character of Jinjur while still leaving the state of affairs at the end suitable for further films along canonical lines. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:36:39 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_16 X-POPMail-Charset: English Speaking of missing lines, apparently Dave can no longer receive anything I send as an enclosure. Fortunately, the too-much-typing aches-and-pains that had been plaguing me the past several months have finally pretty much yielded to exercise (plus time plus some medication), and I can face the idea of re-typing a composed letter with equanimity. To repeat what I said yesterday: David Hulan: As you say, Denslow didn't draw Dorothy as either blonde or brunette. (Dictionary definition of brunette is not brown-haired but dark-brown-haired.) I suppose "chestnut" is a reasonable description, although I think of chestnut as more of a distinctly "red" (which in hair terms is more like orange) shade. Denslow's Dorothy looks to me more like a "Jeanie with the light brown hair" shade. On tourmaline -- it looks as if Baum must have been familiar mainly with the pink kind. There's a Tourmaline among the Pinks in "Sky Island," I think. Scott Hutchins: Before comparing Jinjur to "feminazis," you need to find some to compare her to. The term was invented as a pejorative, and as it is actually used, it means any "feminist" and expresses the user's discomfort with the theory that women should be paid comparably to men for comparable work and that society should try to get set up to make it possible for both women and men to participate in both raising families and in earning livings.Most feminists do want to "get even" with men in that sense, but you presumably mean "get even" in the sense of "pay back oppression with equal oppression." Who are these "loud" examples you have in mind, and have you read what they wrote, or are you going on summaries by biased observers? As Gordon Birrell said, it is unfortunate that Baum's characterization of Jinjur played and plays "into the hands of those who would dismiss the feminist movement as a peevish and petty revolt against the natural order of things." (By the way, you asked for suggestions on what happened to Jinjur's husband, as he isn't seen in later books. There's no reason why anything should have happened to him. He doesn't even need to be off on a journey or divorced, the suggestions Tyler Jones mentioned. He is, obviously, a quiet fellow, and is probably still there and still inclined to avoid getting involved in active sorts of activities.) Gordon Birrell on why Jinjur's uniform does not arrange the Oz colors geographically: Possibly she was thinking aesthetically (she is characterized in later books as something of an artist), and thought blue and purple looked better separated by red and yellow, rather than having two cool colors together and two warms. Dave Hardenbrook on whether Dr. Pipt and Dr. Nikidik are the same person: Sure, why not? Going on foot from mid-north-Gillikin country to a Munchkinland destination may seem to call for a longer time en route than it took Mombi, but, as Aaron pointed out, the magician might have been living in the Gillikin country at the time, or Mombi might have gone part of the way by magic. It's been suggested that he changed his name from Nikidik to Pipt (possibly in staging a supposed death, as he was reported dead in "Road"). But I'm inclined to think that his full name was Nikidik Pipt, and that he didn't stage his death, but just moved (out of the Gillikin country?) on short notice and was supposed dead. He might have moved, as has been suggested, in hopes of avoiding Ozma's ban on unauthorized magic, but it might have been something unrelated. (Possibly he worried that dealing with Mombi was a dangerous sort of occupation, and he headed out of Gillikin territory about the same time Tip did, and for a similar reason?) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:43:46 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Oz in the media: There's a new commercial being aired for Program, an anti-flea pill for dogs and cats. The background scenery is immediately identifiable as Munchkinland from the MGM movie, and a group of dogs and cats perform "Ding, Dong, the Witch is Dead" in barks and meows over subtitles that translate the animal sounds into human language ("Ding, dong, the fleas are dead," etc, etc,). BTW: as the owner of four dogs, including two golden retrievers that used to be in agony over flea bites, I can confirm that Program really works. It's not cheap, but it certainly beats having to spray noxious chemicals inside and outside the house every month, and it's far more effective than any spray or flea collar. More on eating beans with a knife: Margaret Visser takes up this problem in _The Rituals of Dinner_ (Harper Collins, 1991). Turns out that the fork as we know it today was relatively late to evolve; the earlier version, still in widespread use in the nineteenth century, resembled the carving fork of today, with just two widely spaced tines. The late-nineteenth-century table knife, on the other hand, generally had a wide blade, rounded at the end and shaped like a spatula--unlike the tapered knives of today (you can still see this shape in old flatware sets). Visser refers to the "fork revolution" that occurred when the modern model with four tines was introduced in the nineteenth century: at that point it became possible to pick up the food and gracefully bring it to one's mouth without the danger of grievous bodily injury (as would be the case with the old fork) or the appearance of shovelling the food into one's mouth (as would be the case if you piled up the beans--not green beans, but baked beans--on the flat knife). As a result of the ongoing etiquette war between the fork and the knife, the knife was eventually demoted to a cutting function only, and people like Emily Post were quite firm in stating that the knife should never be used for any other function, such as piling food onto the fork, and should never under *any* circumstances be actually brought to the mouth. So the Wizard, by eating beans with his knife, would be revealing his ignorance of the new polite and sophisticated table manners. My hunch is that rural America held on to the old ways much longer than the city folk, and that's why it's amusing that the Scarecrow, in all innocence, attempts to defend the Wizard's eating habits by saying "Maybe that's the polite way to eat in Omaha." Warning about e-mail: Unless you have a very good anti-viral program going, it's a good idea not to open attachments to e-mail these days, since they may very well contain the widespread MS Concept virus. This virus specifically attacks Microsoft Word and affects its ability to save documents properly (it turns everything into a template). --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:44:26 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 > Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 09:48:11 -0600 (CST) > From: Ruth Berman > Subject: ozzy digest > X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_16 > X-POPMail-Charset: English > > Attachment Converted: "c:\Dave\Internet\Archive\AAOZ." > > ====================================================================== Whatever the attachment was we did not receive it, and I checked web page and it isn't there either! > Is there someone we could E-mail or ( Horrors! :) ) Snail-Mail > like maybe IWOC@neosoft.com who could confirm that our manuscripts > were received? > > > -- Dave > The person you could snail mail to inquire if your MS was received is John Fricke, 301 West 45th Street, Apt. 16K, New York, NY 10036. Enclose a stamped, self-addressed envelope. As Robin mentioned we received boxes from John yesterday. They contained 13 new full length MSS, ranging from 151 to 269 pages, with a total of 2680 pages. From what I have heard there are at least 11 more MSS to come, making a total of over 31 full length books. We three first round judges have our work cut out for us. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 09:02:14 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest continued X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_16 X-POPMail-Charset: English Come to think of it, it's odd that Dave apparently didn't receive the cc: I sent him a few days back (a shorter message that I did do directly on e-mail). That was an answer to Alayne1@aol.com who had asked about finding "Wizard of Oz" script to use to "motivate" her students. Has anyone been taking the responsibility to tell the people who ask versions of this question the address of Witmark? Anyhow, what I wrote her was: You'll probably hear from some Oz Club fans who have exact address of Witmark, who publish the version of the "Wizard of Oz" play which is most often preformed (the one based on the movie with some dreary added humor to pad it out to play-length). Samuel French company, back in the 20's, published a version which would be better in terms of reading aloud, as it doesn't have songs. It's out of print, but you might be able to find it in a library. I wanted to suggest, though, that you might be better off just sticking with Baum's book itself. It's more easily available than playscripts would be, and probably available in cheaper editions, and it is better written than the adaptations. And the kids might feel moved to more reading if they realize that the story is actually a narrative, and that sequels are also available at libraries and bookstores. Of course, if the idea is to read aloud, having the kids take parts, it's easier to see one's own part in script form. Budget permitting, you might want both play and narrative. But I did want to put in a word for the Original. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Some other comments -- A couple of reviews that might interest people: The Spring "Minnesota History" (Minnesota Historical Society, 345 Kellogg Blvd W, St. Paul MN 55102-1906, individual copy $3 + $3 postage) has a review by Barbara Handy-Marchello of Nancy Tystad Koupal's edition of Baum's "Our Landlady." Part of what she says is: "Koupal has written an informative introduction .... Koupal has provided excellent notes to the text that relate events at the boardinghouse to historic events in Aberdeen and elsewhere and connect the text to other of Baum's literary works. The annotation enhances both the historic value of the book as well as the humor, as we come to know the people and events of Aberdeen through the eyes of Sairy Bilkins." The March issue of "Mythprint" (monthly newsletter of the Mythopoeic Society, individual copy price not listed, but at $12.50/year, perhaps $1.50 plus $1 postage would be accepted; Mythopoeic Soc. Orders Dept, 1008 N Monterey, Alhambra CA 91801) has review by Eleanor M. Farrell of Gregory Mguire's "Wicked." Part of what she says is: "I really liked this book.... I'm curious whether fans of the Oz stories would hate this book. My own picture of Oz is the MGM version, with gorgeously wicked Margaret Hamilton cackling as she takes off on her broom. Since I never read Baum's books as a child, I picked up a couple of them after reading Maguire's book to compare descriptions, characters, and details. I found these readings (perhaps perversely) complementary, rather than contradictory. The Baum fan contingent may disagree, but I could quite comfortably put "Wicked" on the same shelf with the original Oz books." (If some of you would like to send her Baum fan reactions -- I haven't read Maguire's book, so probably won't -- Eleanor M. Farrell is also the editor of "Mythprint," and her address is 4150 Lawton Str #3, SF CA 94122. The same issue has my review of Eloise McGraw's "The Moorchild," which is similar to what I said about it in the Ozzy Digest, but somewhat longer. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 10:12:04 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest David: I second your feeling of being isolated. Is everyone else on AOL having the same problem? I agree that Dorothy appears to have chestnut colored hair in the BoW _Wizard_ color plates. My dictionary describes chestnut as a "reddish brown." However, I've always divided the world into blondes, brunettes and redheads, and I have (perhaps mistakenly) classified all brown-haired people as brunettes. Since chestnut is a reddish brown and not a brownish red, I consider Denslow's Dorothy to be a brunette. In any event, she's certainly not a blonde. I raised this issue in the first place because I was wondering why Neill changed Ozma's hair color between _Land_ and _Ozma_. The only explanation I've ever heard was that he did it in order to prevent confusion when drawing Ozma next to Dorothy. I simply pointed out that if Neill had kept Dorothy's dark hair, he wouldn't have had to change Ozma's light hair. The most plausible explanation to me is that Neill originally drew Ozma in _Land_ as a blonde because blondes were considered more beautiful. Then when it was time to draw Dorothy in _Ozma_, he made her a blonde for the same reason. Later when he had to picture them together, he must have decided to switch Ozma's hair color -- perhaps because the red poppies in her hair would contrast more attractively if she were a brunette. Book of the Moment: I'm already forgetting the details of _Land_. I suggest that Dave choose an official starting date when people seem to be ready for the next book. Then we should stick with it. _Land of Oz_: I'll add my voice to the chorus confused about counting to 17 by 2's. I must have thought I would look stupid if I admitted to not understanding what must be simple to a child. So I said nothing. Instead, I showed my spoiled pumpkinhead by asking the obvious question about Jack's head! _Barnstormer_: I'm about halfway through it and enjoying it immensely. IMO it's far superior to _Wicked_. If Farmer's other work is of the same quality, I can understand why he's such a popular science fiction writer. BTW I don't think either book comes close to being pornography. Anxiously wondering when and whether I'll receive the next Ozzy Digest, Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 12:31:27 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: (fwd) Re: The Land of Oz (fwd) anyone know of any web sites for this?/ In article <860095239.2453@dejanews.com>, jctully@concentric.net wrote: >Hi all. I was skimming through some of the archives of a few years back >and came across the "worst cartoon ever" thread. I'm looking for some >info on one that certainly would have qualified. I THINK it was called >"The Land of Oz(It's a funny funny place) Does anyone remember this >gawd-awful cartoon? The characters were Dandy Lion, Socrates Scarecrow, >and Rusty the Tin Man. Any web sites out there with screen shots/audio >clips? The theme song went something like this... "They're three sad souls Oh me! Oh my 'No Brain! No Heart! He's much too shy!' But never mind you three Here's the Wizard as you can see He'll fix that one-two-three In that funny land that's the world of Oz! Oh the world of Oz is a funny funny place Where everyone wears a funny funny face All the streets are paved with gold And no one ever grows old In this funny land lives the Wizard of Oz!" There are no web sites that I've come across...but it isn't as if I've gone looking, either. For anyone interested, THE WIZARD OF OZ was an animated Rankin-Bass series that ran (at least when I saw it) with the stop-motion series THE NEW ADVENTURES OF PINOCCHIO. Both series are probably no better or worse than most of the drek that passes for childrens' television these days. But I have a certain fondness for them, because they're just so strange... The only time I've ever seen either series was on a Canadian television station, and the narrator for THE NEW ADVENTURES OF PINOCCHIO seemed to have a distinctly Canadian accent. Does anyone know if this was originally produced for Canadian television, or if it aspects of it were customized for different markets? BRIAN/brian@interactive.net ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 12:43:21 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests Well, I got the 3/26, 4/2, and 4/3 Digests today. I don't know if this is attributable to my turning off the AOL Spam Filter or to the fact that they seem to have been sent me as an individual rather than part of a group. Another day or so might tell. If I continue to have problems with the Spam Filter turned off, I'm going to change Internet providers. This is Not Acceptable. 3/26: Most of the comments I would have made on this one are old hat by now, but I'll check and see if there's anything still hanging... Aaron: BUNGLE AND THE MAGIC LANTERN sounds good. I ordered it from BEOO quite a while back, but still haven't received that one. (I think it's the only one left from my order that hasn't arrived.) Robin: >Above all, enjoy this time. It's one of the very best of your life. Savor >the happy anticipation. Yeah, Craig, savor the happy anticipation. Because then you'll get into the poopy diapers and 2 AM colic and... (Just kidding. Well, sort of; there -will- be the poopy diapers, and may be the 2 AM colic, but the pleasure far exceeds the annoyances.) Tyler: I don't think any of the adult women in Baum's books speak in baby-talk. I wouldn't even call Dorothy's speech in the OZMA-EC books "baby-talk" - just poor diction. She doesn't lisp or do the Elmer Fudd-like "w" for "r" and "l"; she mostly elides syllables, and occasionally mispronounces words like "gurgles" for "gargoyles". (Tot in DOT AND TOT talks baby-talk. Button-Bright in ROAD sometimes does.) Ruth: Good point about Dorothy thinking Notta was trying to attack her. When confronted by an apparent witch who's possibly making magical gestures at oneself, the best way to avoid finding oneself a frog or an ornament or something of the sort is probably a bucket of water. Dave: For that matter, "Io" and "Jo" are the same in Latin, and were the same in English for quite a long time. I don't remember exactly when "J" became favored for the consonantal use of the letter, but I believe it was the 15th or 16th century. I know I've seen photographs of printed texts in English in which, e.g., "Jesus" was spelled "Iesus", so the change postdates the beginning of printing. It's been too long since I read (or even saw a film of) LITTLE WOMEN to know; usually "Jo" is a nickname for "Josephine" or "Joanne", but if Jo March really had that as her full name, it's quite possible that a classically-inclined parent had "Io" in mind in naming her. 4/2: Gordon: I don't know about a "rule" about using a knife to shovel one's peas or beans onto the fork - to be honest, the idea never occurred to me. Or maybe I tried it once when I was too young to remember and was told so firmly not to that it's become a repressed memory. Do people use knives to push beans onto a fork? Seems awkward to me - either I have to eat left-handed or the knife and fork are in the wrong hands. Danny: It's true that the Winkies include some excellent tinsmiths, but one shouldn't forget that Ku-Klip himself is a Munchkin. And there are many farmers in the Winkie country. There may be minor differences in emphasis among the four quadrants of Oz, but I think they're more alike than different. Bear: Most asparagus has a purplish cast at the tips. I suspect that Baum's giving tailors nine lives may be an allusion to the saying, "Nine tailors make a man." My memory on the subject is rather vague at this point, but I believe that in English villages it was customary to ring the largest church bell nine times to mark the death of an adult male (there were different numbers of rings for females and children), and that the largest bell (if there was more than one) was called the "tailor". (That was the origin of the title of Dorothy Sayers' classic mystery centered around bell-ringing, THE NINE TAILORS.) That, at least, would be where I'd start researching if I wanted to determine why Baum associated nine lives with tailors as opposed to some other occupation. It's possible that the Great Sandy Waste along the southern border of Oz wasn't as deadly as the Deadly Desert along the western border; that's the only one that's definitely recorded as destroying all living flesh to touch it. I don't think there's even evidence that the GSW gives off toxic fumes, as we know the Shifting Sands to the east and the Impassable Desert to the north do (from MAGIC and SILVER PRINCESS respectively). Tyler: I guess it may depend on your definition of "brunette"; I've always thought of the term as applying to people whose hair is black or such a dark brown that it looks black in most lights. Neill drew Ozma as a brunette in the books after LAND, and Trot as a brunette in the books after SCARECROW (although both initially appear as blondes). But the hair of brunettes is generally drawn in b/w as a solid black mass with occasional white streaks to give it texture, as that of blondes is left white with a black outline and an occasional internal line for texture. Hair that's drawn with lots of fine lines (as Denslow's Dorothy) usually means red or light brown hair. Omby Amby's mention that the Munchkins and Gillikins are good fighters is in response to the Tin Woodman's saying that if he'd been allowed to arm and drill his Winkies they could have put up a good fight, so it would seem that the Winkies might be good fighters as well (though they don't show it in WIZARD - but then, they probably would have much higher morale fighting for Nick and Ozma than for the WWW). And Glinda's formidable army of girls is presumably mostly from the Quadling country. Jeremy: There's probably more than one Borders in Atlanta. But that's a long enough trip for you that even if you preferred that approach, it would probably be cheaper for you to order direct from BoW. I, on the other hand, have a Borders a couple of miles from me, and I visit it every 2-3 weeks anyhow (if for no other reason, to see if they've sold their other copy of GLASS CAT yet). But I've decided to Support My Non-Local Oz Publisher and order from BoW anyhow. That Tip's ague "last year" might have been a little longer ago than that is possible, but it surely wasn't several hundred years earlier. As others have pointed out, living on a farm keeps one pretty well in tune with the passing seasons, even if there isn't anything like a severe winter in Oz. Unless it's near the equator or on a planet with no axial tilt, there will at least be variations in the length of daylight. 4/3: Nathan: I agree with Haff and Martin (and Dave); the jackdaws' nest is almost certainly on the continent of Nonestica. First, as Dave says, it's unlikely that any of the adventurers but Tip would survive in the Great Outside World. Second, they simply didn't fly long enough - the Gump isn't that fast (we know that he flies slower than the Sawhorse runs). Me: A line got lost in my comment about Baum's description of Ozma's lips. It should have read: "Oddly, he said her lips were 'tinted like a tourmaline,' which is pretty ambiguous. Tourmalines come in a variety of colors, and in fact most I've seen were bluish-green." Jeremy: I never liked asparagus as a boy growing up in the South, myself. Overcooking vegetables is unfortunately pretty common in Southern cooking. Asparagus should be steamed for about 3-5 minutes; then it's crisp and very tasty. I find it somewhat ironic that the vegetables I hated most growing up - broccoli, brussels sprouts, green beans, asparagus - are the ones I like best now. And the whole secret is not overcooking them. (I will admit that I still draw the line at okra.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 14:28:17 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Jeremy: I would be inclined to believe that the jackdaws' nest is in Nonestica. In fact, the only disagreement to this that I have seen was in Pendexter's book. According to _Hidden Valley_, some Gillikins also wear bells on their caps. Maybe they were influenced by Munchkin fashions. Tyler: According to Fred Otto's short story "The Wogglebug's New Clothes," which appeared in the 1987 (I think) Oziana, the tailor's name is Stichwell J. Threadneedle. Robin: Apparently Baum had been familiar with a pinkish sort of tourmaline, since he made Tourmaline the Queen of the Pinkies in _Sky Island_. _Wonder City_ begins in August, since we are told that Jenny Jump arrives in the Emerald City on Ozma's birthday. Also, if we accept the statement in _Masquerade_ that Betsy Bobbin was born on 31 October, this would be the starting date for _Hungry Tiger_. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:35:33 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz BCF: I notice that in _Land_ when our friends escape from the Emerald City and head to the Tin Woodman's castle, Baum describes that the castle is near a small town. There is Even a small illo of it in the chapter heading. I am at the office right now, so I can't Refer to the book, and I forgot if Baum mentioned that the castle was in the town or Next to it. I am working under the assumption that at this time the Woodman was still living in The old castle of the WWW. According to the non-FF _Tin Castle_, the tin castle is Built soon after this story. This town was not mentioned in WIZARD, but the arrival and departure was not under Normal terms, so perhaps Baum did not need to mention it. Can anybody remember if this town has been mentioned anywhere else in or out of the FF? In Farmer's and Laumer's non-HACCurate writings, this town is referred to as Winkiezia. Aaron, I believe, is also using this name in his magic machine series. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 18:21:14 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Picking the Digest off Dave's Web page is a lot less convenient than getting it in E-mail, but it's a lot better than not getting it at all. Come next Tuesday I may well have a new Internet address. Grrrr. Steve: >Why do you consider Ozamaland particularly Indian? I just got that sort of impression from it - the kind of procession they had, the elephants, that kind of thing. Plus the Old Man of the Jungle seemed much more Hindu-like than any other culture. It's not as strong an impression as the Arabic impression one gets from Jinnicky's domain, but it certainly doesn't seem European or Chinese or Arabic, and it's not inconsistent with Indian. Scott H.: Never having taken mass media studies (they'd never heard of such a thing when I was in college) I don't know what their definition of pornography is. I do know that BARNSTORMER has nothing in it that would have caused me the slightest concern if my daughter had wanted to read it when she was 13. If it's pornographic, then so is about half the adult (meaning as opposed to children's, not as sold in "adult" bookstores) fiction being published today. (And so was about a third of the adult fiction being published in 1950. It's certainly no more pornographic than the historical novels of Frank Yerby or Lawrence Schoonover.) As I said, if it were a film it would be somewhere on the borderline between PG-13 and R. Nathan: Bilbil is a much more fully-developed character than Locasta (or Tattypoo, for that matter), though no more so than Tip. Reviving him would be much more difficult, though, unless the magician who enchanted him was also using the Switcheroo Spell and there's a goat somewhere in Oz who had a few years of living in the body of a handsome prince... Though there would need to be a lamb and an ostrich and a Tottenhot and a Mifket involved as well. Hmmm...if I were just going to write another Oz book anytime soon I might think about that as a plot device. But I'm planning to shift gears from Oz for a while in my writing; I have a lot of other stories I want to tell, just like LFB, and unlike his case there's nobody clamoring for me to write "more about Oz". (I'll continue to write short Oz items, but not another book-length story for a couple of years at least.) It's true that we don't hear much about divorce in Oz, but then we don't see that much of the lives of most Ozites, either. The great majority of characters we meet are either exotics who don't even marry, much less divorce, or children. The few marriages we see are almost all royal (at least in one of the petty "kingdoms"), and it's always been much more difficult for a member of a royal family to get a divorce, even in our world. Divorce is probably much less common in Oz than in the modern US, since there's a lot less stress in Oz, but I can imagine that being married to Jinjur might be pretty stressful. My feeling is that Nikidik and Pipt are two different people, but that Pipt was the one who made the Powder of Life in all three books where it appears, even though the way it works is different in each book. (In LAND there's the Weaugh-Teaugh-Peaugh incantation, with gestures, much like the charm on the Golden Cap. In ROAD Dyna has to wish her bear alive. In PATCHWORK GIRL the powder just has to be sprinkled.) There's no evidence at all that Pipt has the level of magical power that would let him create Nikidik's Wishing Pills, and quite a bit that he doesn't. Those pills have to be somewhere in the 7-8 range on Dave's Scale of Magic, and Pipt doesn't seem to be higher than a 5 at best. Robin: I know that tourmaline comes in a red version, and I'm sure that's what Baum was thinking of - but it's far from the only, or even the commonest, color of tourmaline, which makes it, as I said, ambiguous. It's as if he said "the color of a chess piece". Sure, many sets have red men - but they all have white, and many have other colors for the non-white side (which is conventionally called "black"). Dave: I think that John Fricke is the one who picks up the MSS at the PO Box in NYC. But since he's on AOL, you may not be able to reach him by E-mail... (You could try: JohnFricke@aol.com.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 18:47:28 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Dave: I liked the way you put yesterday's Digest in your web site--that was clever. If necessary, perhaps you should put them all there--but I'd rather we got AOL better instead (I know I've used that joke before, but it bears repeating, if not in its entirety). Seriously, I hope AOL does get fixed, for the sake of those who can't Digest things as well as is . . . Re the idea that Dr. Pipt got the box in question from "another wizard"--namely Nikidik: Perhaps; however, FF descriptions of the two are awfully similar . . . One problem with letting the discussion of LAND be postponed too long is that we may need to get it Gump-started. (I just had to . . .) Re Oz in America: Note the common-placedness of Jinjur ale. Dave again: Wow! I've never been the cause of someone's FIXING a problem before! You make me sound . . . heroic! That said, I'll promptly forget all about it, like I do everything else. Seriously, I'm glad to hear I was the straw that made the camel's back better again. --Jeremy Steadman, Novice Solution Source P.S. I know Baum was fond of puns, but I do realize I go overboard a bit . . . (Note how I'm ending everything on an elliptical orbit today.) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 20:17:33 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Ozmaland: Some may consider it based on India due to its jungle and elephant connection, but we saw so little of it in _Captain Salt_ that we can't really be too sure. Nathan: "Yoicks" is a term that is simliar to "Yikes" although I can't for the life of me remember where I first heard it. "We offered the world ORDER!": One reason that a set date is not feasible for the changing-of-the-guard of the BCF is that some books are more complicated than others, needing more discussions. Also, interpretations may differ more or less as we move through the FF. The best way is to just take it as it comes. Nikidik and Pipt: It is possible, of course, that the two are related, although there is no evidence for it one way or the other in or out of the FF. Currently, I favor the theory that Nikidik was another Wizard who at one time traded with Pipt and accidentally gave a box with wishing pills to him. Pipt never noticed and gave the box to Mombi. AOL: Based on all the problems AOL is having lately, I am very disturbed by a rumor that they are going to buy CompuServe. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Apr 97 00:34:57 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZZY FAQ: I have made a few small changes in the Digest, in sections 1.1 and 1.3, which deals with the "rules" for posting messages to the Digest...I would appreciate everyone looking at the new section 1.3 when they get a chance... RUTH'S ATTACHMENTS: Ruth wrote: >Speaking of missing lines, apparently Dave can no longer receive anything I >send as an enclosure. No, I got it...It's just that my ongoing "AOL anxiety" made me forget to merge it into the Digest...Sorry! DAVID'S COMMENTS ON JO: Jo's full name is Josephine...When Aunt March calls her she calls out, "Jooooo-SEPHINE!" _LAND_-RELATED THOUGHTS: Jellia: Let's see -- Today is Saturday, so Nikidik and Pipt must be one in the same today (They're two people on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays)... :) I have a question concerning the Wogglebug: Could the "Highly Magnified" Wogglebug not be the original Wogglebug, but instead a projected "shadow" that came to life, fleshed out. and so then could step off the screen, 'a la _The Purple Rose of Cairo_? Aujah: Oh just *peachy*! Now we have a "Two Wogglebugs" theory! :) Wogglebug: Not at all! The backward arthropod from which I was projected was but an archaic insect, whereas *I* am "Highly Magnified" and "Thoroughly Educated"! ASPARAGUS: And now it's time for "The Ozzy Chef" with Jellia Child! :) Jellia: I have one cooking tip for asparagus that I haven't noticed on the Digest (but I've been busy hollering orders to the royal palace painters the last few days so I may have missed it): Be sure the asparagus is *fresh*, *NOT* canned! If it's canned, it really *will* be mushy! Tune in next time when I will show you the necessary steps to cook a low-fat Chicken Kiev... ( 1. Move to Oz or other fairyland... :) :) :) ) So until next time, this is Jellia "Child" Jamb saying, "Bon Appetit!" -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 6 - 7, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 07:30:57 -0500 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 4-5-97 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii David: In your post, you mentioned seeing photos of printed old English test where Jesus was spenned "Iesus". My paternal grandfather's name was Iseus, and I'm wondering if it could have been a misspelling of Iesus? All my grandfather ever said about his name was that his mother had chosen it from the bible. Also, your considering changing servers might be a prudent move, especially if the rumors of an AOL/Compuserve merge prove correct. I feel for our Compuserve friends, here on the Digest! Dick ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:08:09 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission I note that in _Land_, the Wogglebug is not "the Wogglebug," but "the Woggle-Bug." By _Emerald City_, if not before, that had been changed to its current form. Dave, your two Wogglebug theory expressed in the 4/4 Digest is ingenious. If Professor Nowitall's "famous magnifying-glass" operates on strictly optical principles, then the original, unmagnified Wogglebug should still exist as an entity, separate from his highly magnified "twin." Incidentally, when H.M. Wogglebug, T.E. says in your note, he is overlooking the fact that the Wogglebug became educated in the three years _before_ he was magnified, so his unmagnified counterpart is also T.E. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:44:40 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Addendum Correction: Dave's two Wogglebug theory is in the 4/5 Digest, not the 4/4. And speaking of the 4/5 Digest and of Wogglebugs, David's clear explanation of the technique of indicating hair color in black-and-white drawings is nicely illustrated in _Land_, in Neill's "A Highly Magnified History" chapter drawing of the school children viewing the just-magnified Wogglebug. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 09:36:38 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII David: Thank you for what I deem the explanation of Baum's Tailors/9 Lives line. Very satisfying to finally feel I understand it. Nathan: I knew I'd forget something. You're right about _Wonder City_, of course. I can't accept Betsy's birthday as being Oct.31 for the simple reason that it's not canonical info and, in that sort of thing, I'm a bit of a purist. Contest: John says he's sent receipts to authors of the first batch of mss and is in process of sending receipts to the rest of the authors. You really don't need to e-mail him, since he's taken care of this on his own. Also, he's going out of town for a while. I s'pose that if you sent an ms quite a while ago and haven't heard from him that it would be a good idea to check. I know I would; my nerves wouldn't cope well with the anxiety/suspense. --R. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 11:51:42 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 Thanks for putting the Digest on your Web page; I'm still not getting it through E-mail (and my wife can't forward it to me from her work, either, so you might as well unsubscribe her). I'll get this problem solved one way or the other (AOL will fix it or I'll have a new Internet address) by early next week. Robin: I think it essentially certain that Dr. Pipt and the crooked magician Mombi got the Powder of Life from are one and the same, but much less so that the latter is the same as Dr. Nikidik - for reasons expounded yesterday. I prefer steaming asparagus in a saucepan with a steamer insert - I think it cooks more evenly than nuking, and it's no more trouble and takes only the extra time required to bring the water to a boil - but I'm sure nuking would work fine. John K.: Ah, so that's who ST. WAPNIACL was. No, I never had to learn that - by the time I needed to know that sort of thing there was no Secretary of War, the Secretary of the Navy wasn't in the Cabinet, and the Speaker of the House and President Pro Tem of the Senate were #s 3-4 in presidential succession anyhow. Though I do remember when the latter happened, and it's not so recent as all that - IIRC the 50th anniversary is this year. (I actually got an acknowledgement in Harry Turtledove's WORLDWAR: FINDING THE BALANCE for pointing this out to him; he'd made the mistake in the first edition of WORLDWAR:UPSETTING THE BALANCE of making the Speaker third in succession in 1944.) Ruth: "Feminazis" is certainly a pejorative, and I haven't seen any feminists that are an eighth as Nazi-like as people like Rush Limbaugh or Bob Dornan who use that term freely. But there are some feminists - Andrea Dworkin is one name that comes to mind, though I know there are others - who go beyond the point of wanting things to be equal between the sexes to being actively anti-male. And yes, I've read the writings of those women themselves, not just the descriptions of them from their opponents. (Naomi Wolf's THE BEAUTY MYTH, for instance, while making a lot of valid points, to me spoiled its argument by attributing to conspiracy what is much more easily explained by the overall flow of social trends.) It seems necessary to explain why Jinjur's house was deserted when Woot and companions arrived there in TIN WOODMAN if Jinjur was still married. Maybe, since the stop was only for a few hours, his "journey" was nothing more than a tramp to the nearest village for a loaf of bread, but he was gone for some reason. And it seems odd that the Scarecrow, who claims to be a good friend of Jinjur's, wouldn't remark on his absence as well as hers when they arrive and there's nobody home. If Dr. Pipt just moved out of the Gillikin country, why did he leave some of the Powder of Life behind for Dyna to find? I think his move had to be of the highly urgent sort that left the impression that he had been killed, and that required him to abandon all his possessions except what he was wearing - and that the necessity arose while he was away from his home, or surely he'd have taken his best magical invention with him. (There's probably a story in this, if someone hasn't already written it.) If Eleanor Farrell had an E-mail address I might well write her about WICKED, but I need a better reason than I have for writing her to actually do a hard-copy letter these days. Gordon: I've read THE RITUALS OF DINNER, but I'd forgotten that the introduction of the four-tine fork was as late as mid-19th century. (I read it not long after it appeared.) The fork itself was fairly recent (14-15th century time frame, IIRC), and wasn't really practical for eating things like beans until much later. One minor addition, though - the legitimate use of the knife, in etiquette books of a century ago, wasn't entirely limited to cutting. It was also correctly used for spreading butter, jam, pate, and the like (although in really fancy establishments there were special knives for these purposes). However, it should never enter the mouth, and shouldn't be used to push food around either. Incidentally, since the Wizard probably left America in the1840s, he might have missed the "fork revolution" . An interesting question is why Glinda and her spies thought it was odd that he ate beans with a knife - had the "fork revolution" started in Oz? Is the MS Concept virus something that can infect both PCs and Macs, or is it a PC-only virus? Steve: At least 31 MSS, eh? Yes, you three first-round judges do have your work cut out for you - especially if most of them are decently-written. (I would assume that if you get a couple of chapters into one and it's clear the author can't write decent prose, you wouldn't feel obligated to stagger through the rest of it.) Craig: I'm not sure that blondes were considered more beautiful in 1904. I know the "Gibson girls" were considered the epitome of female beauty at roughly that time, and they were almost invariably dark-haired. In any case, red poppies would look a lot better on a brunette, if Neill insisted on the poppies (which, IIRC, are never mentioned in the text of any FF book). Jeremy: I don't think there -is- an FF description of Nikidik. The only reference to that name that I recall is in the instructions that come with the wishing pills; the magician Mombi got the Powder of Life from (who was almost certainly Dr. Pipt - Margalotte says so in PG) is unnamed, and may or may not have been Nikidik. Tyler: Admittedly we can't be sure of an Indian connection to Ozamaland - but it's not implausible, and would be a possible source for Hindu religious works in Nonestica. Yeah, the rumor that AOL may be going to buy Compuserve is a major reason why I'm not considering the latter if I switch ISPs. Dave: It must be pointed out that the Thorough Education that the Woggle-bug got was acquired when he was a tiny bug; the High Magnification came later. But is there still a tiny bug, somewhere in or around Professor Nowitall's schoolhouse, with a Thorough Education? Normally when something is projected onto a screen, the original is unaffected... I suppose those of us who love asparagus felt that it went without saying that you had to start with fresh. Even frozen isn't very palatable, and canned is mushy before it's heated at all. (As far as I'm concerned, there aren't any vegetables that are much good canned or frozen. If I can't get fresh, I don't eat vegetables. Fortunately, fresh vegetables are available year-round these days, at least in urban areas. They're much better in the summer when they're grown locally, but they're edible year-round.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 19:51:09 -0500 (EST) From: Athos4@aol.com Subject: For Oz Digest Attn. Mr. Steadman, O Pasha of Puns: This is too late for the IWOC contest, and if the title has been thought of before, I apologize, but I believe the potential for a smash Oz novel is latent in: _Raiders of the Lost Ork_. All: Please, no thoughts that I should defuse my Muse. W_Baldwin@juno.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 22:42:25 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Robin: I believe that the evidence you mentioned is in _Road_. The Tin Woodman mentions that the inventor of the powder of life was a crooked sorcerer who fell off a precipice and was killed. Depsite this, the crooked magician who makes the Powder of Life shows up alive and well two books later. This has caused some people to speculate that Pipt and Nikidik are the same person. Nikidik faked his own death, moved to the Blue Forest of the Munchkin country, and changed his name. Columbo: Oh, There is just one more thing... If Pipt and Nikidik were the same person, then Pipt would also be the one who invented the wishing pills. Since these are extremely powerful, it seems reasonable to assume that Pipt would have some around his house and he could have used those to disenchant Margolotte and Unc Nunkie immediately instead of sending Ojo off on a trip from which he would probably never return. He never even mentioned them. This leads me to beleive that Pipt did not use or mention the pills because he never knew about them. As for the seeming amazing coincidence about the crooked sorcerer dying, perhaps the Tin Woodman was referring to Pipt after all, who did fake his death for some reason, only to turn up later. Or it's posible that Pipt and Nikidik knew each other, went on an adventure, and met up with an accident that crippled them both. The possibilities for new Oz books are endless here... IMHO, to be true porn, it is not just what happens, it is also the way it is described. The line in _Barnstormer_, IIRC, is "you are indeed a giant, maglo". That last word is Ozzish for "little boy", used as a joke, since Hank was about a foot and a half taller than the average Ozite. Disturbingly enough, something like this happened last month on the Howard Stern show, but we won't go into that here... Craig: If you like _Barnstormer_, then you should love RIVERWORLD. You may have to go to used bookstores to get them, though. Notta's Witch disguise: I think that Dorothy's reaction to Notta was part of Thompson's larger point that disguising yourself and going under false pretenses is a bad idea. If Notta had simply gone to EC as himself, the whole problem would never have existed. Wrap: I notice that posts coming from my work address go longer than one line. This must be because the default size of the exchange mailer contains more characters that the DOS text editor. David: I once theorized that the early versions of Pipt's Powder of Life was not quite up to snuff, and so needed to incantation to help it along. Later, when Pipt refined his technique. the powder was more powerful and did not need the extra magic. Jeremy: I doubt that Delphi would give Dave enough space to put all the digests (over 10 MB currently), and it would be impractical to have more than a few at a time. Maybe this is a hint for everybody to come over to CompuServe, assuming that the AOL buyout rumor is not true (oh, please, let this rumor be false!!!) Multiplicity: I think tis "two people" theory is moving a little far out into left field. IMHO, this is a very rare condition, caused only by long-term enchantments and other conditions (such as Ozma being a fairy). I seriously doubt that every transformation enchantment ever done has resulted in duplicates. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 10:34:25 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Off Oz Digest Dave:>I will admit that I still draw the line at okra. Try frying the okra.......it's great. Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 09:42:04 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Wiley Miller's "No Sequitur" cartoon strip for 4/6 is a color one panel Oz joke. The strip should be available for on-line viewing tomorrow at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wiley . ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 13:08:09 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Ozzie Digest Message Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yo Ozzies! Did everyone catch _Non Sequitur_ by Wiley in Sunday's comics? Dorothy, Toto, the Lion, the Scarecrow, and the Tim Woodman on the yellow brick road encounter Moses leading his people through the wilderness. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 19:50:45 -0500 (EST) From: JSTEADMAN@loki.berry.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 Dave: I'm happy to report that my parents now have e-mail, so that I can continue to get the Digest during the summer. The only catch: They have AOL. We'll just have to see what happens. Ruth: By "Witmark" do you refer to "Tams-Whitmark"? I'm curious--my mother (the director) directed _You're a Good Man Charlie Brown_, published by T-W, and did not have a very pleasant experience [I hope no one on the Digest works for them--if so, I meant no offense.] Mark: That forwarded song lyric is the worst excuse for a song about Oz that I've ever heard. I have no more to say about that. Re Pipt-o-Nikidik: I tend to favor the theory that they're really one and the same. Hey, my personality is split in two; so why in Oz can't his be, too? Everyone: My humor did get out of control yesterday; I apologize. (And I can tell you more about famous astronuts, like the apollo-gize, later . . .) --Jeremy Steadman, or He Who Thinks Himself Funny Often Finds Himself Phony ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 20:32:15 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Dave ONLY >The only reason I don't set a "cast in concrete" date to begin a new BCF is because I want to conversation to flow naturally without any shackles... Did you go to Montessori school when you were a child? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THE COOKING CORNER - Yes, 6 minutes for the asparagus. I cooked a really big bunch last night and 6.5 minutes was perfect. Yes Dave, there is also a completely purple type. Yes, I have tried nuking chokes. I would much prefer to boil them. They just come out better. Ruth - I don't know where you got your definition of "feminazi?" It was meant to be a pejorative but was never meant to apply to all feminists. Only the rabid ones. Most of us males have no trouble supporting the examples of equality you mentioned. That includes Rush by the way. Weekend regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 21:46:03 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MONTESSOURI AND THE MOCK TURTLE: Bear "growled": >Did you go to Montessori school when you were a child? Not that I think it has any relevence to how I have chosen to run the BCF discussions, but yes, I did go to Montessouri in Kindergarden, after which my parents took me out apparently thinking that its brand of "progressive" education was not what they wanted for me. I'll never forget the first day when I walked in, and the teacher was teaching the kids how to wash ( leading to my MOPPeT that the Mock Turtle's school beneath the sea was Montessouri :) ). I also remember my fire-breathing teacher (who lives again, briefly, as one of the wicked witches in _Locasta_) who was vehemently anti-Oz and indeed anti-anything involved children using their imaginations... VIRUSES: I know this is non-Ozzy, but the talk about the "MS Concept Virus" leads me to ask: Can someone recommend a good shareware Virus checker that won't trash my system (and suspend publication of the Ozzy Digest!) like the last one did? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 8, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:26:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Tyler: Good point about Pipt's not having access to the wishing pills. "Piglet": I vote with David. Okra is nasty stuff, although frying it may help--if it removes the sliminess, a food quality I enjoy only in oysters. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 07:43:06 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 > > Steve: > At least 31 MSS, eh? Yes, you three first-round judges do have your work cut > out for you - especially if most of them are decently-written. (I would > assume that if you get a couple of chapters into one and it's clear the > author can't write decent prose, you wouldn't feel obligated to stagger > through the rest of it.) > It is kind of you to suggest this way out, but so far I have read every pages of the MSS I have read (the 7 of the original batch and 1 1/2 of the second), even some that I was sure I would not recommend to the finalist judges (who will only have to read three). I intend to read all the rest in their entirety; I cannnot speak for the other judges. However I consider this a great treat. The chance to read so many new Oz books. I have read all the productions of BoW and BEoO. Perhaps maschocism is one of my traits? > > I suppose those of us who love asparagus felt that it went without saying > that you had to start with fresh. > > David Hulan > It may be indelicate to mention this, but one of the less pleasant qualities of asparagus is the effect it has after it has passed through the body. (For the curious, I do not plan to elaborate.) > This is too late for the IWOC contest, and if the title has been thought of > before, I apologize, but I believe the potential for a smash Oz novel is > latent in: _Raiders of the Lost Ork_. Fortunately I have not reveived THAT MS. > > Craig: > If you like _Barnstormer_, then you should love RIVERWORLD. You may have to > go to used bookstores to get them, though. > It should be mentioned that the first (and best) of this series is TO YOUR SCATTERED BODIES, GO. > By "Witmark" do you refer to "Tams-Whitmark"? I'm curious--my mother > (the director) directed _You're a Good Man Charlie Brown_, published by > T-W, and did not have a very pleasant experience [I hope no one on the > Digest works for them--if so, I meant no offense.] > I believe that Tams-Whitmark is a descendent or offshoot of the Chicago based music publisher Whitmark and Sons that published the original music for Baum's 1902 WIZARD OF OZ (as well as) THE WOGGLE-BUG and THE TIK-TOC MAN OF OZ). My grandfather worked for them in the early part of the century, but I do not take offence--that's how I happen to have a signed first edition of WONDERFUL WIZARD. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 09:24:02 -0500 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 4-6 & 7-97 ISTR someone asking, in recent weeks, about conventions. This past Saturday I received a fat envelope from IWOC containing info re: conventions, along with other fliers and a letter from President Hanff in which, among other things, he gives a nice plug for "Dave Hardenbrook's Ozzy Digest"! David: I believe Dave stated that he would not be sending the Digest via e-mail until the problem with AOL was resolved. I haven't received any since he made that statement Dick ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:38:52 -0400 (EDT) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-06-97 At least my outgoing E-mail still seems to work. And getting the Digest off the Web, while tedious (and leading to a lot of extra Web access on those days, like yesterday, when there's no Digest - not to be taken as a criticism, Dave!), at least lets me keep up with it until I get a new ISP. I've picked one out; I don't know how long it will take to be up and running on it. Dick: I'm not sure, but I think "Iseus" was the Douai Bible version of "Isaiah". I know the Douai version -which was the standard English-language version for Catholics up into the 1940s at least, and may still be for all I know - uses very different English spellings for many of the Hebrew names from the ones that were used in the King James version (roughly contemporary) and that have become standard in subsequent translations. (IIRC, the KJV was translated directly from the Hebrew and Greek, whereas the Douai was translated from the Latin Vulgate. But I'm not sure of that.) If your paternal great-grandparents were Catholics then this is very likely the explanation. Robin: I got an acknowledgement of my MS from John Fricke Saturday. Since I mailed it on 3/25, this indicates a rough turn-around time for acknowledgement of 11 days or so. Those who mailed as late as 3/31 should probably not worry if they don't get acknowledgement for another week, but after that an inquiry might be in order. Warren: I would expect that the winning story in the contest should have "of Oz" or "in Oz" at the end of its title. (Not that "Raiders of the Lost Ork" as a working title would disqualify it, but I'd expect the powers that be in the club to request a title change if it was judged the best story.) Tyler: I agree that most transformations don't involve the "switcheroo spell". On the other hand, there is some evidence that it's the method of choice in breaking the most difficult enchantments - Ozma uses it to break Mrs. Yoop's enchantment of Woot in TIN WOODMAN. So it's perhaps plausible that the even more difficult enchantment of Bilbil might have been attacked through the switcheroo. We aren't sure exactly what Glinda was doing in the course of transitioning Bilbil to Bobo. The Woggle-bug's case is unique - I think it not only possible, but likely, that there's still a small, thoroughly educated woggle-bug in Professor Nowitall's schoolhouse, now that the subject has been mentioned. But that wasn't a transformation but a projection. Bill: I've tried fried okra. It's more edible than boiled, but I still don't like it. Jeremy: If AOL doesn't get its E-mail situation straightened out, at least you can read current Digests on Dave's Web page this summer. Although I expect AOL will get things straightened out eventually when enough of its subscribers leave in disgust. Well, I'm off to sign up with a new ISP. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:03:41 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Dave Hardenbrook: So it's probably still okay to send you something as an attachment? Thanks, then I'll do it that way, as it's a tad more convenient for me. Tyler Jones: The Dr. Nikidik of the wishing pills would seem to be definitely the same person as the crooked magician who made the Powder of Life -- Tip recognizes Dr. Nikidik as the name of the crooked magician. (As to why he didn't use them in "Patchwork Girl" -- well, for one thing, not knowing the Wogglebug, he may have thought they were indigestible and therefore worthless, and that may have been why he packed them away in the first place and evidently forgot about them. Or perhaps the wishes did not work against other magic.) By the way, the article about the crooked magician that you and I were referring to earlier was "The Enigma of Dr. Pipt," by Lee A. Speth, in the "Bugle" back in 1965, and reprinted in the 65/66 "Best of the Baum Bugle." (For that matter, that "Best" also contains to answer to a question posed in the just-out Winter 1996 "Bugle," as to the identity of Ruth Plumly Thompson's 1927 unfinished finish-the-Oz-story: it was "The Enchanted Tree of Oz," and appeared in the "Bugle" in 1966, with a completion to it by Bill Eubank the same year.) Earl Abbe: I suspect that Professor Nowitall's "famous magnifying-glass" did not operate "on strictly optical principles. It sounds more like something that deserved the old name of "magic lantern." David Hulan: Eleanor Farrell's e-mail address is emfarrell@earthlink.net Craig Noble: Neill's decision not to draw Dorothy with the kind of light-brown-hair shading Neill used probably grew out of a desire not to have to draw lots of fine lines on a character who was obviously going to be getting used regularly, and his choice of making her fair-haired rather than dark-haired probably came from a feeling that light-brown is closer to blonde than to dark-brown. Having chosen "white" for Dorothy's hair in the opening chapters of "Ozma," by default that made Ozma herself "black." (He may have been influenced subconsciously by the fact that he knew Tip was Ozma, and he'd drawn Tip as black-haired. Baum's single reference to Ozma as blonde, and Neill's single drawing of her as blonde evidently hadn't sunk into his memory to compare with all those black-haired drawings.) Jeremy Steadman: I think it's Witmark rather than Whitmark, but, yes, it's Tams-Witmark. I assume that's the fusion of two separate earlier companies (it was Witmark, in fact, who published most of the songs from the 1902 "Wizard of Oz"). Bear: Limbaugh claims to distinguish between "feminists" and "feminazis," but uses the latter term in contexts that make it obvious that what he really means is "feminists." Going back to the specific context, Scott Hutchin's comparison of Jinjur to "feminazis" -- David Hulan's suggestion that Andrea Dworkin might quality as a "feminazi" might be generally accepted, but there aren't many points of resemblance Jinjur and Dworkin. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:25:01 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Dick Randolph: I have heard that the Latin alphabet does not have a "J". hence, Jehovah is Iehovah and Jesus may well be Iesus. Of course, my source for this is "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade", but it may be accurate. Also, thanks for the kind words regarding a possible CompuServe buyout by AOL. I am quaking in my boots. I am convinced that this whole thing with AOL is a plot by Ruggedo. Tired With attempting to conquer Oz, he has set his sights on the Internet. Earl: Interesting point. The key, of course, is whether Professor Nowitall's Device is purely an "opticalizer" or does it actually magnify the source? This is similar to the discussion about Tip/Ozma. Besty's bd: I am a half-purist. That is, I will accept non-FF material as long as it Is reasonable and does not contradict pre-existing FF material. As for Contradicting Non-FF material, that's another game altogether! David: Your comments regarding the book-judging are similar to situations in Academy awards. When people are voting for best Actor, etc. They are required to watch the ENTIRE film, even if the Person in question is only there for part of the movie. In other words, if the first few chapters of a book are not that great, shouldthe judges read the rest of it anyway or cut it out? Eat your veggies: I don't mind frozen to an extent, but I cannot stand canned. IMHO, fresh is really the best way to go. Dave and teachers: In a way, I was lucky. I had only one really bad teacher as a child. Mostly, I heard stories about OTHER teachers from friends. If I ever Write an Oz book, I may base the villain on a brief encounter I had With a small child's mother in a hobby store. He and I were looking at Some D&D stuff and talking about when she walked up, grabbed his arm, And yanked him out of the store, saying "WELL! You're going much too busy studying this summer to worry about having FUN!" Grateful that she's no relation, --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 11:39:36 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Non-Ozzy thought: Last night on "The Simpsons", there was a guy at Martin's party doing tricks. Bart asked why all of his tricks involved numbers. Magician: That because I'm a MATH-a-magician. Kids: GROAN! I wonder if Simpsons creator Matt Groening got this name from "The Phantom Tollbooth"? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 15:36:41 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 W. Baldwin: I know you want to hear this, so here goes: Were you to write the "smash Oz novel" you mention, you would be a _Writer of the Lost Ork_. And no, I think your Muse is rather a-Musing. Tyler: Pipt (or whatever his name is) _would_ send Ojo off on the trip you mention, exactly _because_ he [Ojo] would never return. Or am I too morbid? I'm still waiting for my parents to tell me about the problems they're having with AOL, but if they're having any, I've not yet heard about them. [This means that perhaps there's hope--or perhaps not. We'll see.] I apologize _again_ about the day my humorous bone got out of control. Hey, you all have funny bones too, I hope. This is Jeremy Steadman, signing o f f . ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 15:55:14 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Correction in today's Ozzy Digest You think a 180 is the right idea? Sounds more like getting even than being productive. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 15:57:43 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 I did send it to the club P.O. box, but my questioning letters were ignored, and my questions were not answered until I got on the digest, so I was wondering if it might of got there. Now I can see that you would not know that from Steven's response. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:06:28 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 Ruth, I'm sorry if I offended you. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:09:41 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 About Ozma's hair; I think there was a fine explanation of this a few years back in _The Oz Gazzette_, fully in keeping with Ozma's character. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:27:59 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 If Tip was taken in by Ozma as a baby, and Ozites could age and die during those times, as early books suggest. It seems to me there is nothing strange about Tip with the ague. I imagined the Wizard was not in Oz nearly as long as he had stated, but becoming a recluse made him lose track of all time. I imagine he was really only there ten-twelve years before, and probabl closer to ten given the time between Wizard and Land and Tip/Ozma's age. The thing about Nikidik and Pipt came from my own work. I imagined Tip might hear the name Nikidik and assume he had heard it before to fulfill the necessary place of a name for the old sorcerer. Why I think they must be different people would surely give up my anonimity as far as the contest goes. Scott BTW, the "hanging man" cannot be seen on the THX/Ultimate Oz, and is hard to read as one on the 50th anniversary edition. It is older and TV versions where it is less distinct, and the optical illusion is created, as is in Workteams & The Wizard of Oz. Also, I picked up Oz Squad #4 and #6 recently, the last ones for my collection. It is ironic that I was flipping through an issue I had not read and the Tin Woodman talks about the Scarecrow being a fan of Nine Inch Nails since a hitherto unknown (to us) Ozite likes that music in my novel, which has a reference to Oz Squad, whose first issue came out right around when it is set. Dave, I see you did not post the First Searches I sent to you, although these contained information on things the HACC compilers wanted. I hope you have sent this to them, if the stuff actually got to you. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:30:07 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 I still hate broccoli. Never tried brussels sprouts or asparagus, or okra for that matter, anyway. I've never been served liver either, though I did have a sliver of chicken liver at Old Country Buffet once. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:33:32 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 I've heard Shaggy say "yoicks" on _Scooby-Doo_. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:40:44 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 I thought Woggebug was actually transported up to the screen in a magnified form by some magical means, since no mention is made of his counterpart still in the room. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:41:49 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Anyone know about the unmade Wonder city of Oz TV movie Fred Meyer tells me made it to the teleplay stage? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:45:42 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Tom Owen, I believe, is the name of the coiner of "feminazi." You'd actually be surprised how little Rush Limbaugh uses that term, though I don't listen to him frequently anymore. Anyway, I'm very pro-egalitarian. An irony in my book is that there is a sort of couple, in that there are male-female friends, no romance of any kind however, and the female is supportive of the male's endeavors. Conversely, the male is supportive of the females. And each rescues the other from a plant. So there. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 20:02:18 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls David and others - I would invite you over to the thoroughly satisfactory Compuserve again but I think we may have been sold down the old AOL. Sigh. Robin - Regarding asparagus - I understand, my 93-year-old mother refuses to use a microwave too! :) :) Who is Eleanor Farrell and why should we care a fig what she thinks about "Wicked" or Oz for that matter? For anyone who missed the Oz silent movies: Critic's Choice Video now has them on sale. $26.77 for the four including "His Majesty The Scarecrow of Oz (59 min), "The Patchwork Girl of Oz (67 min), The Magic Cloak of Oz (40 min), all folmed in 1914 and the first film version of "The Wizard of Oz" (1925) starring Oliver Hardy as the Scarecrow. Four cassettes in a slipcase. The phone number is 1-800-367-7765 and the item number is AGFAL000335. Happy viewing. Cheerfully, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 22:59:22 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 Nathan: >The Fuddles live in Fuddlecumjig, and there is another group of Quadlings known as Flutterbudgets. As far as I know, there are no "Fluttercomjigs," unless they are cross-breeds between Fuddles and Flutterbudgets, or something like that.< A "fluttercumjig" would *always* be falling apart... :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 22:59:46 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Nathan: I tried to revive Bilbil in a story that I wrote. In this story, the Wizard used his Extractor (that cap that he used on Jenny Jump) to remove Bilbil's personality (or is that goatality?) from Bobo. The story wasn't very good, but I think that Bilbil is a character who deserves revival at least as much as Tip and Locasta.< A character like Bilbil could be conjured from a boiling cauldron without much problem. I'd feel more comfortable resurrecting an animal character this way than a human one. (Which is why I brought back Tip the way I did--complete with past, family, etc..... :-) ) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 23:00:05 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 >David: Tourmaline comes in a red variety (Rubellite). Perhaps that's what Baum was thinking.< It's possible that was the only type of tourmaline Baum had ever seen and he assumed all tourmalines were red. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 23:00:26 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 Tyler: >I am working under the assumption that at this time the Woodman was still living in The old castle of the WWW. According to the non-FF _Tin Castle_, the tin castle is Built soon after this story.< In (I think) Road to Oz, the Tin Woodman says he had his new tin castle built because the WWW's (stone?) castle was damp and likely to rust him. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 20:57:14 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Various things.... Feminists: ever since I heard with my own ears a tenured professor call it "unfair" for college courses on 16th-century English drama to be more than 50% concerned with works by male playwrights, I have perforce felt it necessary to approach self-proclaimed feminists very carefully, and with a big club held behind my back, just in case they suddenly switch cycles and turn violent. AOL/CompuServe: Don't get too excited. The standing CIS investment in hardware and software is considerable; I'm certain the two services would continue to operate independently for two years, at a minimum. "Iseus": I am quite certain that there is no "Iseus" in the usual English texts of the Bible, and the Douay version does not seem to favor Latinate forms any more than Protestant versions do. I suppose there could be an "Iseus" in the Vulgate. The theory of a misprint seems a priori unlikely; Bibles are _very_ carefully proofread. Alphabet: The original Latin alphabet (taken from the Etruscan, taken from the Greek, taken from the West Semitic) ran: A B C D E F Z H I K L M N O P Q R S T V Z was found useless and dropped, and when C was split in two (it was originally pronounced as in "goose", but in most words it came to be pronounced as in "cook"), the new letter G took Z's place. Later, X and Y were added, mainly for spelling Greek words, although X also found native Latin use, and Z was brought back, also for spelling Greek. At the end of the classical period, it ran: A B C D E F G H I K L M N O P Q R S T V X Y Z In the middle ages, I was split in two, as I and J, and V ended up with three flavors: U, V, and W. The exact use varies somewhat. For example, J is no longer used at all in Italian; its last use in that language was to prettify "ii" by printing it "ij". W is so rare in French that it didn't originally get a symbol in Braille; it was added later. Even in English, it is still not unheard of to use I for J and V for U on monuments and the like, and there was no absolute rule at all until very recent times. (Shakespeare's First Folio, for example, regularly uses U and V in the reverse of the modern practice.) // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 00:10:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Dick Randolph wrote: "David: In your post, you mentioned seeing photos of printed old English test where Jesus was spenned "Iesus". My paternal grandfather's name was Iseus, and I'm wondering if it could have been a misspelling of Iesus? All my grandfather ever said about his name was that his mother had chosen it from the bible." Probably not a misspelling, as Iseus makes sense too. A whole bunch of popular and different sounding names are basically just variants on each other: Jesus, Iesus, Jesu, Iesu, Yeshu, Yeshua, Yehoshua, Joshua, Jose; Yehoshayahu, Isaiah; Yishai, Jessie... etc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Gili Bar-Hillel abhillel@fas.harvard.edu gili@scso.com http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== "He thought he saw a Rattlesnake |\ _,,,---,,_ That questioned him in Greek: /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ He looked again, and found it was |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' The Middle of Next Week. '---''(_/--' `-'\_) 'The one thing I regret,' he said, (cat by Felix Lee) 'Is that it cannot speak!'" - Lewis Carrol, "Sylvie and Bruno" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 00:23:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: H.M. Wogglebug, T.E., of Oz 1) Tyler, in Adelmanian Oz, the old capital of Winkieland is Bastindezia and the new capital is Chopperston. The name 'Winkiezia' has been rejected since Barry and I have become more wary of needless possible copyright infringements. 2) Dave, I could see H.M. Wogglebug, T.E. being akin to straw pulled from a picture by Jinjur, though I find myself wondering whether 'real' wogglebugs are intelligent at all. Insects don't seem to be any smarter in Oz than they are in this world. (Prof. Wogglebug's memory of events before his magnification poses no difficulty; other vivified beings, such as the Scarecrow, Benny, Crunch, and Humpy, remember things that happened to them before they came to life.) On the other hand, Prof. Wogglebug looks more like a vertebrate than an insect (noncompound eyes, four limbs, no exoskeleton), so wogglebugs might just be tiny mammals, which would be naturally intelligent in Oz. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 97 01:25:08 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things TYLER'S COMMENTS: There is also a "Math-a-magician" in the movie _Little Man Tate_ (of course they could have got in from _The Phantom Tollbooth_ as well...) Speaking of _The Phantom Tollbooth_, last month the Turner Clasic Movie channel showed a very whimsical cartoon called "The Dot and the Line". written by Norton Juster...I didn't know he had written anything besides _Phantom_. BTW, when my Musical Theatre-inclined friends say they are "Phantom" fans, I say demurely, "Oh, you mean _The Phantom Tollbooth_?" :) :) In regard to what Tyler said about Teachers: I guess it's the lucky ones who get only very few bad teachers...But in fairness to teachers everywhere (including here on the Digest), some of my protagonistic characters are based on *good* teachers I've had...Ozma's cousin Gyma (who appears in _Locasta_ and "Fairy Princess" both) is based on my first programming teacher who I had a terrible crush on, and Locasta herself has a bit of my Junior High Science teacher in her character in my stories... MISCELL.: Thanks to Eleanor for the info on the History of the alphabet! Scott wrote: >Dave, I see you did not post the First Searches I sent to you, although >these contained information on things the HACC compilers wanted. I hope >you have sent this to them, if the stuff actually got to you. I don't think I ever got this -- Can you re-send it? TODAY'S BCF QUESTION: One thing about _Land_ is that it develops Jellia's character, portraying her as wonderfully sassy and mischievous!...My question is, why was this not carried through in subsequent books...Or are there some which I haven't read in which she is depicted as she was in _Land_? Jellia: Not that *I* remember...I've had to wait for *you* Dave to portray me as I am! :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 9, 1997 (SPECIAL EDITION) *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:24:59 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:36:06 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 4469848 AUTHOR: Suter, Jon Michael, 1941- TITLE: The orange knight of Oz / PLACE: Ada, Okla. : PUBLISHER: Hasskarl Bindery, YEAR: 1976 PUB TYPE: Book FORMAT: 138 leaves : 28 cm. NOTES: Sequel to The adventure of the mustard jar. Based on characters created by L. Frank Baum. SUBJECT: Roach, Elizabeth Ellen, -- 1954- -- Fiction. OTHER: Baum, L. Frank (Lyman Frank), 1856-1919 ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:25:15 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:37:58 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 30710549 AUTHOR: Baum, L. Frank (Lyman Frank), 1856-1919. TITLE: Lu yeh hsien tsung = Oz / PLACE: Shang-hai : PUBLISHER: Shang-hai i wen chu pan she, YEAR: 1992 PUB TYPE: Book FORMAT: 4 v. : ill. ; 119 cm. SERIES: Hu hsin teng tzu ; 111 hao NOTES: Translators for vols. 2-4 vary. ISBN: 7532712567 (v. 1) SUBJECT: Fantasy. OTHER: Oz. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:25:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:38:37 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 14205300 AUTHOR: Mueller, Don A. TITLE: Oz : a new account of a remarkable journey : book, music, and lyrics / PLACE: Boston, Mass. : PUBLISHER: Walter H. Baker Co., YEAR: 1979 PUB TYPE: Musical Score FORMAT: 1 vocal score (40 p.) ; 28 cm. NOTES: Cover title. SUBJECT: Musical revues, comedies, etc. -- Vocal scores with piano. ALT TITLE: Oz. Vocal score ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:25:55 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:39:08 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 1761646 TITLE: Oz. PLACE: London. YEAR: 196u 19uu PUB TYPE: Serial ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:26:13 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:39:43 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 7538313 TITLE: Oz PLACE: London, Eng. : PUBLISHER: [s.n.] YEAR: 19uu 9999 PUB TYPE: Serial FORMAT: v. : ill. SERIES: Underground newspaper collection. NOTES: Microfilm. Wooster, Ohio : Bell & Howell Co., 19-- microfilm reels ; 35 mm. (Underground newspaper collection). SUBJECT: Underground press -- England -- London. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:26:28 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:40:12 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 7985211 TITLE: Oz / PLACE: [Manhattan, Kan.] : PUBLISHER: The College, YEAR: 1979 9999 PUB TYPE: Serial FORMAT: v. : ill. ; 28 cm. FREQUENCY: Annual NUMBERING: [1]- NOTES: Title from cover. ISSN: 0888-7802 SUBJECT: Architecture -- United States -- Periodicals. Architecture, Modern -- 20th century -- United States -- Periodicals. Design -- United States -- History -- 20th century -- Periodicals. ALT TITLE: Oz (Manhattan, Kan.) Oz (Manhattan, Kan.) OTHER: Kansas State University. College of Architecture and Design. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:26:39 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:40:47 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 11304690 TITLE: London oz. PLACE: London, PUBLISHER: Oz Publications. YEAR: 1967 1967 PUB TYPE: Serial FORMAT: v. ill. NUMBERING: no. 1-3; Feb. 1967-Apr. 1967. NOTES: Edited by Richard Neville. SUBJECT: Counter culture -- Great Britain -- Periodicals. ALT TITLE: Oz (OCoLC)1761646 OTHER: Neville, Richard ed. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:26:53 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:41:48 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 33478002 AUTHOR: Kerr, Stuart. TITLE: Oz. Vol. 1, Mayhem in Munchkindland / PLACE: Livonia, Mich. : PUBLISHER: Caliber Press, YEAR: 1995 PUB TYPE: Book FORMAT: [170] p. : chiefly ill. ; 26 cm. NOTES: "Reprinting issues 1-5 of 'Oz'." SUBJECT: Science fiction comic books, strips, etc. ALT TITLE: Mayhem in Munchkindland! OTHER: Griffith, Ralph. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:27:15 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:42:56 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 31457501 TITLE: Oz. PLACE: Livonia, MI : PUBLISHER: Caliber Press, YEAR: 1994 9999 PUB TYPE: Serial FORMAT: v. : ill. ; 26 cm. NUMBERING: No. 1 (1994)- SUBJECT: Horror comic books, strips, etc. Fantasy comics. ALT TITLE: Oz (Livonia, Mi. : 1994) ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:27:28 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:43:39 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 31426929 AUTHOR: Silliman, Ronald, 1946- TITLE: N/O : Non, Oz / PLACE: New York : PUBLISHER: Segue Foundation, YEAR: 1994 PUB TYPE: Book FORMAT: 107 p. ; 23 cm. SERIES: Roof books NOTES: Poems and prose. Non -- Oz. ISBN: 0937804568 OTHER: Non. Oz. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:27:40 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:45:36 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 36001706 AUTHOR: Kelly, Tim J. TITLE: Oz! / PLACE: Denver, Colo. : PUBLISHER: Pioneer Drama Service, YEAR: 1995 PUB TYPE: Book FORMAT: iii, 59 p. ; 22 cm. NOTES: Acting edition. A musical based on the story by L. Frank Baum. Title from cover. SUBJECT: Baum, L. Frank -- (Lyman Frank), -- 1856-1919. -- Wizard of Oz. OTHER: Francoeur, Bill. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 9, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 07:42:50 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 4/7 Digest, David asks, IIRC, the Concept virus and other Microsoft-macro-based viruses do infect both. There is -- or at least there should be -- a special place in hell for people who write or deliberately spread computer viruses. And Dave asks for a recommendation for a good virus checker. The McAfee virus checkers have been around for several years and have a good reputation. My copy of their VirusScan v2.05 has caused me no trouble. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 06:45:37 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Various musings, My ex-wife, being from Oklahoma, used to either slice spears of asparagus or pick very thin spears, dust them with cornmeal and fry them like okra. Unhealthy, but delicious. I was taught in catechism class that the sign above the crucifix "INRI" stood for Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews. Scott, in regards your food phobias, you're missing a lot. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 09:38:39 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: oz digest Earl Abbe: I misplaced a quote mark in my comment yesterday, and it came out sounding confusing, so I'll repeat that I suspect that Professor Nowitall's "famous magnifying-glass" did not operate "on strictly optical principles." It sounds more like something that deserved the old name of "magic lantern. Bear: Why should you care what Eleanor M. Farrell thinks of "Wicked"? -- well, it depends on how much of a completist you are. Reviews of Oz or Oz-related books are reasonably likely to interest Oz fans. "Wicked" isn't an Oz book (for that matter, neither is Baum's "Our Landlady"), but it's certainly Oz-related. Even if you don't care what Eleanor Farrell thinks of "Wicked," she expressed an interest in finding out what Oz-fans think of it, so you might want to consider sending her some comments on how much you dislike it. (I'll repeat her e-mail address: emfarrell@earthlink.net). John W. Kennedy: The professor you heard who said it was "unfair" for course on 16th century English drama courses to be more than 50% concerned with works by male playwrights -- are you sure what the professor meant by "unfair"? The professor might have meant "We're stuck with studying 100% male playwrights, but it was unfair that the society made it impossible for women to write for the stage, and students should be aware of it." Sure, I can think of obviously more peculiar and less defensible meanings, but it surprises me that you generalize from what you take to be an extreme statement to conclude that all feminists are likely to be extremists. Considering that big club behind your back, I suppose it's a good thing the mechanisms of e- mail mean you are far away from me and the other women (excluding Eleanor Kennedy, who seems to be stuck with you) on the Oz Digest, in case your hormones act up and you turn violent. (You were joking? "Tain't funny, McGee.") The Latin "c" was pronounced as "k" (Kaiser -- the Germans spell it funny, but pronounce it right -- said Weenie, Weedy, Weaky, which sounds much less imposing to English-speakers than the anglicized pronunciation of "I came, I saw, I conquered."). Latin had no "k" letter. The "c" started in Latin in the same alphabetical position as the Greek/Semitic Gamma/Gimmel, and I don't know what the theories are about how it was originally pronounced, and when Latin decided to distinguish between the unvoiced C and the voiced G (as the shapes of the letters show, "G" developed as a variation of "C," not directly as the equivalent of Gamma), but it can't have been getting pronounced as an "s" then. The "c" started doing funny things when Latin was splitting up into the various romance languages. In French, it softened to "s" before the front vowels (e & i), and English reflects French spelling in that respect. In Italian, it palatalized to what we call the "ch" sound before the front vowels. French and Italian still have no "K" in their alphabets, except for spelling foreign loan words. (I should back up these comments with a source, but am writing from work. And I'm not sure if I'm remembering what the textbooks said, which I could look up at home, or what the teachers said in the history-of-language courses I took. If anyone's interested, I'll try to pin down some sources.) Dave Hardenbrook: Jellia in Thompson's "Ozoplaning" is not mischievous, but is sassy -- in fact, is the story's heroine. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:37:19 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Well, I'm here with a new ISP. We'll see how it works. At least this one is local, so I can go down to their office and yell at them if they mess up. Steve: If all the MSS you received have been up to the quality of BEOO and BOW books then reading them through wouldn't be a chore (though it would take quite a bit of time). I was thinking of some things I've seen coming out of the Oz Story Circle that have been tolerable at short-story length, but that would be difficult for me, at least, to read 50,000+ words of. Maybe nobody like that has submitted a MS. Ruth: It's true that Tip claims to remember that Mombi had said that Nikidik was the name of the crooked magician she had visited, but in fact Mombi never said any such thing. I think Tip was just assuming that the two magicians were the same. Thanks for Eleanor Farrell's E-mail address. Actually, there are three Neill pictures of Ozma as a blonde in LAND - pages 277, 278, and 287 in the BoW edition. There are a few others through the FF where her hair looks relatively light rather than its usual black, but I doubt we should draw any major inferences from this. (For instance, there's the picture of her near the end of TIK-TOK, where she and Dorothy and Betsy are watching Hank and the Sawhorse "shaking hands". All three of them seem to have similarly-colored hair. That's one of the few illos of Ozma without poppies, too.) Tyler: Certainly the final judges of the contest should read each MS carefully, just as Academy Award voters should watch every minute of nominated films. But the preliminary judges aren't in that position. Should Academy Award voters be required to watch every minute of somebody's home video it it's sent to them? We're talking about the possibility of really bad stuff here, not just stories that may clearly be out of the top three. (I've spent enough time talking to people whose jobs were reading the "slush pile" of unsolicited MSS for publishers to know that a significant fraction of it is downright painful to read, and takes very little time to be sure it's not publishable. Maybe that's not true for this contest; good for Oz if so!) I didn't have any really bad teachers when I was in grade school, though there were a couple I didn't like much. My entire high school and college career, however, was distinguished by a succession of bad English teachers. (I tend to categorize "good" and "bad" teachers based on how well their students learned their subject. My English teachers were for the most part very nice ladies - and one man, in college - but they didn't know that much about English and they were worse at conveying it. My high school math teacher, on the other hand, was a very unpleasant woman as far as her personality was concerned, but her students left class knowing more math than their contemporaries from other schools around.) Scott H.: I've always been fond of liver. I was quite unhappy when the medical experts decided that rather than being Good For You, as I'd been brought up to think it, liver was full of cholesterol and should be avoided. One of my favorite meals used to be sauted chicken livers and mushrooms. Bear: Eleanor Farrell is the editor of MYTHPRINT, the newsletter of the Mythopoeic Society. It's not a bad place to recruit new Oz fans, so it would be worthwhile to get Oz books reviewed there. (I reviewed several of the post-FF books for MYTHPRINT a few years ago when David Bratman was editor.) David Hulan (though now that my E-mail address is my name, I might not need to sign every time) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:54:10 -0500 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 4-8-97 David, Tyler, John & Gili: Thank you all for your comments and suggestions regarding the spelling of my grandfather's name. By misspelling, I was suggesting that his parents may have been at fault. They were farm folks with little in the way of formal education. And, David, they were not Catholics, but Seventh-Day Baptists. Bear: If Compuserve had a toll-free access phone number in my area, I would be with them today. As it happened, AT&T's Worldnet was the only one I could find with such a number. Sorry for the non-Ozzy post. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 08:54:52 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Slimy food: Ick! I really do not like sliminess in my food, one reason I rarely eat scrambled eggs. Most people do not cook them enough, but sometimes I will come across some that are not gooey. Jeremy: It is a good possibility that Pipt sent Ojo off on a quest that he "knew" would result in failure, hoping never to see him again. I'm speculating, but the plan may have been simply to restore Margolotte in six years, move the statue of Unc Nunkie to the garden, and put the whole sordid mess behind him. While Pipt is not an evil man, I would not put something like this past him. In a way, this is similar to the Wizard sending Dorothy off to kill the WWW. Pipt/Nikidik: Is is reasonable to suppose that Pipt invented the pills, thought they were useless, and hid them away. Overall, I suppose, the evidence seems to lean in the direction of them both being the same, but I'll wait until someone writes a story about this with a good explanation. Scott (the guy who launched a thousand posts): One reason that I have always assume the Wizard had ruled for about 30 years is the fact that he is so well known and feared even outside EC. It takes a while to build a reputation like that, and 10-12 years may not be enough. He may have only ruled for 20 years. Aaron and I worked out the current HACC theory, which has the Wizard arriving in 1868, 32 years before _Wizard_. Chris and Aaron, do you have any input regarding moving up the date of the Wizard's arrival about 10 years or so? It would make the whole Tip/ Ozma thing a little easier to justify. thanks for the "Scooby Doo" tip. That must be where I get "yoicks" from. His counterpart may not have been noticed. Clearly, the Wogglebug believes himself to be one and only, but the little one may still be there. I still lean to the theory that the Wogglebug was actaully moved to the screen, since it is less likely that he could have stepped off the screen if he was only an image. Eleanor Farrell: The name rings a bell, but I do not who she is. Any hints? John Kennedy: Thanks for the scoop. I had no idea that the Etruscann alphabet intruded itself between Latin and Greek. Good teachers: In looking back, the number of good outweigh the bad by a large margin. Oddly enough, despite my technical leanings, most of the very best have come from liberal arts fields, such as English and history/mythology. Jellia: Surely the most popular of the minor characters in the FF. She played a sizeable role in _Ozoplaning_, but I can't remember much about how she was portrayed. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:07:30 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 I studied Latin for three years, and there is no J, unless one decides to write it that way. There also is no U, but standard presentations of Latin alow for "-us" rather than "-vs" to make it easier for modern speakers. Use of J is less popular. One of my textbooks did, the other always used I. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:14:23 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 I coulsn't get John Fricke's e-mail address to take. BTW, Gil, you left an L off "Carroll" in your quote. I thought you might like to correct it. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:17:15 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Aaron-- I think if Royal Book were not part of the FF, it would be rejected from the HACC, because the Scarecrow is quite clearly alive well before he is placed on the pole. Baum later had the idea of an Indian princess and her subjects bringing the Scarecrow to life, but he never actually put it in one of the books. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:20:19 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Jellia, what about me? Of course much of that protrayal came (in part) from half a dozen viewings of the Donahue-Driver telefilm, as did Mombi's, not because I haven't read the book (I've read it three times). Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:23:07 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Dave, I can get you some which I forwarded from my own box. You'll have to wait a bit for the ones I tried to send directly to you. Among these were entries on Bill Morrison storybooks, Oz weirdness, _Mago de Oz Cuento de Frank Baum_, _The Adventure of a Mustard Jar_, and more. BTW, I got a copy of _Toto's Rescue_ and it is not very good. It was made by some adavanced TV production students who can't act, can't keep their costumes together, can't use greenscreen.... Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 11:32:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Dave, Here's the formal corporate entry (as established by the Library of Congress): M. Witmark & Sons (Firm) Peter ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 16:48:26 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Steve: Perhaps Tams-Whitmark is, like so many new things, a pale imitation of the original. I could go into an elaborate and definitely flat joke about the false representations of Native American "Indians"-- beating Tam-Tams and such--but I've acquired some self-restraint lately. (If not much . . .) But seriously, I think that T-W, being a pretty big name publishing house and one that commonly used among producers and directors today, is an enviable connection in many ways. Speaking of AOL: Should I warn my parents very, very vehemently against it (even now that they've already hooked onto it)--or just very vehemently? Not that I'm likely to have much success convincing them to change, with all the free hours we have . . . Dave: I'm confused. Are you now putting the Digest both on e-mail (as I'm getting it now) _and_ on the Web too? Please explicate. Tyler: I see your point (about Ruggedo and AOL)--after all, the Internet connects the world. Scott: Ten years is awfully quick for the Wizard to establish what is essentially an empire. So long for now --JMS ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 19:18:36 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Steve - Did you know that it has the effect only on selected individuals? It is a body chemistry thing. Ruth - I am amazed to learn you are a Limbaugh fan! Eleanor - Thank you for the interesting background on the alphabet. Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 22:55:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: _Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz_ 1) >Pipt (or whatever his name is) _would_ send Ojo off on the trip you >mention, exactly _because_ he [Ojo] would never return. Or am I too >morbid? Jeremy, I can hear Dorothy saying, "Jeremy, how could you?" right now. I doubt Pipt was so cruel, considering the appauling lack of evidence for such a view. (Think about it: if he was such a meanie, how come Bungle hadn't been broken by Pipt soon after he created her?) If for no other reason, Pipt would not want to offend his old friend of Unk Nunkie. 2) Dave, Jellia Jamb gets a significant role in _Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz_ (which strangely gets worse with each rereading). Interestingly enough, Nick Chopper's character gets strangely butchered... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 23:18:21 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Ruth: If Mombi said that she traded with Nikidik, this does not necessarily mean that she actually did. After all, the WWN is not exactly known for her honesty. _Wooglet in Oz_ suggests that Nikidik traded the pills to Pipt, who then traded these and the Powder of Life to Mombi, using the name of Nikidik out of fear. Chris Dulabone's _Dagmar in Oz_ suggests that Nikidik obtained the Powder of Life from Pipt, and traded it to Mombi. Later, Mombi went directly to Pipt for more powder. Jeremy: Unless Pipt really didn't like his wife, it would have benefitted him for Ojo to return from his journey alive and well, with the magical ingredients. After all, Margolotte was transformed into a marble statue. Scott: What was the idea about Ozma's hair? I think you mean that Tip was taken in by Mombi, not Ozma. On Bilbil: If he was restored to life, it would explain why Rinkitink is accompanied by "a surly old goat" on his visit to the Emerald City in _Lucky Bucky_. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 00:25:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Tyler - HEBREW has no J to begin with. Yeshua is the ORIGINAL form of Jesus, just as Yokhanan is the original form of John, Yonatan of Jonathan, and Yehoshua of Joshua. J was just added to make things confusing. A friend sent me a photograph of a park bench in San-Francisco that has striped Margaret Hamilton feet and a pair of ruby slippers stuck under it, and the back is painted with a poppy-field/emerald city mural. Scott - could you please PLEASE try to concentrate all your interesting comments into one post? Please! -Gili ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 10:58:07 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 I think something happened while I was answering yesterday's Digest; for whatever reason, I didn't comment on anything after Melody's first post. I think it was something I didn't understand about my new software. So to continue: John K.: Searching my memory, I'm pretty sure the Douai version of "Isaiah" is "Isaias". "Iseus" actually most resembles a Latinized version of a Greek name, like Zeus or Theseus. But most likely Dick's ancestor misspelled some other name. Interesting alphabetic discussion. Maybe you know the answer to a couple of questions that have puzzled me (not enough to go research them, but enough to ask someone who might know the answer). One is, why, when the Romans brought over "X" from the Greek, did they bring the sound of "xi" and the shape of "chi"? The other is, by what plausible sequence of events did "j" get the "zh" sound it has in English and French (the English has an additional "d" sound in front of it in most words - but I suspect that originally it had the same sound as in French)? Most languages written in the Roman alphabet give it the "y" sound that it had in Latin (albeit spelled "i"), and it's fairly easy to see how the Spanish aspirated "h" sound developed from that, but "zh"? Are intermediate forms recorded anywhere? Dave: Have you read OZOPLANING yet? Jellia has a major role in that book, and although it's not a very good book, she definitely has a sprightly personality. It's the only FF book where she has a major role (even more than in LAND, where she really just does a couple of cameos). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 16:34:56 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz On the subject of vegetables: Brewster Bunny and Bristle tell me that all vegetables, leaves, and grass are quite delightful. But they should never be cooked. They should know, shouldn't they? But speaking of good, healthy food: This Friday: Count the days! This Friday McDonald's (that haven of health food galore) will start offering Beanie Babies! Camp out there Thursday to be sure you're first in line! If you don't already know what Beanie Babies are, Start camping out right now! You are already behind the times! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 97 16:25:41 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MY WEB PAGE: >I'm confused. Are you now putting the Digest both on e-mail (as I'm >getting it now) _and_ on the Web too? Please explicate. Yes...Mainly for the benefit of the AOLers who still aren't receiving the Digest AT ALL... A REQUEST: I don't mean to be nitpicky, but could I ask everyone to sign their names to their posts? (I'm still not sure if the post about the development of the alphabet was from John or Eleanor...) JELLIA JAMB: Tyler wrote: >Surely the most popular of the minor characters in the FF... The pivotal word here is "minor"...In my books, she's a *major* character! :) (I've clearly *got* to read _Ozoplaning_ though, even though no one seems to think it's very good...) Scott wrote: >Jellia, what about me? Jellia: Sorry, Scott -- I didn't mean to forget *you*! It's the pressure of all the remodeling we're doing at the palace...The royal painter's driving me *nuts*! I very politely asked him to fill in the holes and crevaces in the walls before he started...He said with stiff and rigid arrogance, "Ma'am, I *don't* spackle! I *don't* sand! I *don't* tape! I only *paint*!" Then the exterminator walked in... I asked him to kindly exterminate the painter... Ozma: Poor Jellia...I'd better give her a vacation... ANOTHER REQUEST: I know this isn't Ozzy, but does someone know if there is a British or European equivalent to www.amazon.com for finding books overseas? I am searching for the original London version of _Cats: The Book of the Musical_...I am a rare proponent of the original, uncut, Billy McCaw-containing London version of the show... Ozma: That reminds me -- I've got to add Elaine Paige, Sarah Brightman, Brian Blessed, Wayne Sleep, and Bonnie Langford to the guest list for my upcoming charity banquet for "Deleted Characters in Literature" (whose guests of honor will be Billy McCaw and the Wasp in a Wig)... :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 10, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] (NOTE: The previous Digest, stated to be for the ninth and tenth of this month, is really for the ninth only... Sorry for the confusion... -- Dave) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 21:00:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-07 dave try the internet book shop they have lots of british stuff ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 21:28:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Time of the Wizard of Oz 1) Dave, moving up the Wizard's arrival by about 10 years won't help much. As things stand now in the HACC and Adelmanian models, the time between the Usurpation of Pastoria and the Restoration of Ozma is about 42 years. Whether Ozma was Tip for 42 or 32 years makes little difference; both are too long for Tip to have an unnaturally long childhood without the neighbors noticing. This is why in the Adelmanian model Mombi originally transforms Ozma into something that ages very slowly or not at all. (Why she did this and why she later changed Ozma into a boy are, however, still 'restricted' data. Sorry.) The other alternative I can think of would be for Mombi and Tip to have moved several times, probably changing their names, in order to avoid detection, but this seems a bit odd since Tip in _Land_ doesn't seem to notice anything unusual about himself other than the fact that he's an orphan being raised by a witch. Also: Before I forget: At the moment I do most of my web browsing in the text-based lynx ( ): ), but I recently managed to coerce it into downloading the pictures there. I'm impressed by your renderings of Flathead Mountain and the Emerald City, but I must admit, this is the first time I can remember the spires of the EC being capped by domes. 2) Chris, re last item, the photo of the Oz bears is adorable. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 22:08:06 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-07 Bob: Your posting, coming on the heels of the Virus Scan posting of Earl Abbe's should, I think, have been headed, "Virus musings". Sorry. Landlady comments: My impression (and I'll plead guilty--I've not read the columns) is that LFB's "Our Landlady" columns were not Oz-related. Is a collection of these columns in print and available somewhere, somehow, to a poor (financially) college student? Tyler: Even 32 years seems an awfully short time for the Wizard to establish what amounts to an empire (and strike suck fear in the WWW and WWE). I think 50 is more likely, but I am far from an Oz scholar (a terrible but true admission). On the other hand, when did hot-air balloons and circuses begin to infiltrate the US? Peter H.: Ah, so there IS no `h' in Witmark after all! (I need to keep my whits sharper that that. Sorry.) Aaron: You're right--I had not a whit of evidence as to Pipt's personality, either--not having the books in front of me at college or anything. Give my apologies to all. I was indeed being "morbid", as I put it, and would eat my words, except they're in too small bytes for me. Scott: I'm afraid I have to second Gili's request. I keep thinking, "oh, I'm responding to someone else here"--but it's you again (no offense intended--I enjoy all digesters [sorry], but he has a point; it is easier if each person just posts once or twice if absolutely necessary. If I just insulted you, a apologize a multitude of times). So long, everyone; happy Ozzing (if that's a word). --Jeremy Steadman, Oz fan at large (or small) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 21:07:24 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (R. M. Atticus Gannaway) Subject: interesting oz thing DIGEST: while researching gay 20th-century poets, i came across an interesting poem by a weird guy named jack spicer (1925-1965). here it is: INTERMISSION II The Wizards of Oz have all gone kook There are no unidentified flying objects. The Moon may not be made of green cheese but my heart is. Across the Deadly Desert We found a champion. The poem Which does not last as long as a single hand touches. Morning comes. And the signs of life (My morning had a telegraph key at here) Are less vivid. There is a long trail in the back country. Choose Carefully your victim. Around the campsite we argued who would choose the fire I left in a huff with your hand Naked. i've made no punctuation or grammar erros. i've transcribed it exactly. apparently spicer had a lifelong fascination with oz. * * * "Love is a temporary madness, it erupts like volcanoes and then subsides. And when it subsides you have to make a decision. You have to work out whether your roots have so entwined together that it is inconceivable that you should ever part. Because this is what love is. Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the promulgation of promises of eternal passion, it is not the desire to mate every second minute of the day, it is not lying awake at night imagining that he is kissing every cranny of your body. No, don't blush, I am telling you some truths. That is just being 'in love,' which any fool can do. Love itself is what is left over when being in love has burned away, and this is both an art and a fortunate accident." ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 22:46:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: For Oz Digest I'm updating the timeline I did for the IWOC web site and have a few questions. Does anyone out there know: -- in what year was the film Ramblin Rose produced? Who produced it? -- in what year were the Jim Henson Mother Goose (Baum-barely-credited) Stories first produced? -- if the guy who did the Tales of Magic Land Volkov translations get e-mail? I'd like to ask him about the Vladimirsky/Vladimirskov spelling. -- does anyone have an e-mail or snail mail address for Robert Luehrs in Hays, KS? -- who published Amazing Heroes? Why was Ozma in issue 115? Was it an Oz story? By who? Why is Ozma wearing a bathing suit? -- anyone know a city out of which Saban video producers operate? -- what is "Locus" that recently featured Peter Glassman/Oz books? That's all the general stuff, though many points I've saved in that last year have specific posters names still attached, so I'll be writing you individually. Thanks for your help group! Jane ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 21:59:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-07 Scott: Maybe you couldn't reach John because you made a spelling error? You wrote: > I coulsn't get John Fricke's e-mail address to take. Then you corrected Gili's (note the second "i" in her name) spelling! >BTW, Gil, you left an L off "Carroll" in your quote. I thought you might like to correct it. Sorry. I just couldn't resist it. It always bothers me when people seem to play "one upsmanship" games in the DIGEST by correcting others' spelling. As is the case with all of us, you simply goofed and it's no big deal; I should be "good" and not comment, but as I said, I simply couldn't resist it.... (No, Scott, this will not influence my reaction to your ms when/if I receive it. I'm sure you did a fine job in writing it.) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 22:09:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Special -- Results of Scott's Book Search Scott (again): Thanks for the book search. I didn't know about some of that stuff and am glad to see it. Jon Michael Suter, BTW, is the librarian at Houston Baptist University. He'd probably be willing to sigh copies of his book. If it's listed by your search service, does that mean it's still in print and available? ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 23:08:30 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz David: We seem to have opposite stories concerning English teachers. With one notable exception, all of my English teachers have been stellar. That's why I write so good. :-) Dick Randolph: You may have a local CompuServe number. Call 1800-63-LOCAL and find out. For someone who got laid off form them, I'm sure pushing the service a lot. ********** SPOILER FOR _ROYAL BOOK_ AND HACC MOPPET ********** Scott and Aaron: The Scarecrow clearly has consciousness before being placed on the beanpole. We can speculate that when the spirit of Chang-Wang-Woe went up the pole, it encountered an already living thing. It may have inhabited the Scarecrow's body, although not dominating it. This is why the Scarecrow never knew who he "really" was: because the spirit never manifested itself until later, driving him back to Silver Island. However, the Scarecrow (his original life force) was stronger, causing him not to want to become the Emperor again. I do not believe that the Scarecrow has really been Chang-Wang-Woe this whole time. That's a little too much :-) ********** END OF SPOILER ********** Jeremy: While I agree with you that 10 years is too quick for the Wizard to establish himself so well in Oz, I would not quite say that he has an Empire. IIRC, he claims to rule all of Oz (I think he says this either in _Wizard_ or in _Dot&Wiz_), but in practice he really only rules EC and the green area. Still, with a city of 50,000 he was doing all right. Aaron: I sometimes refer to _Ozoplaning_ as the "anti-Captain Salt book", since the Tin Woodman makes an attempt to expand Oz, as does Captain Salt, but in this case, the people do not take too kindly to his actions, while in _Captain Salt_, they were falling all over themselves to be placed under Ozma's rule. Pipt: Dr. Pipt clearly displayed affection for his wife in _Patchwork Girl_, so I would gather he genuinely wants her restored. Based on other comments, I am now leaning toward the theory that Pipt and Nikidik are different people. While I have been bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, I am sure that this will be settled someday. Too many posts spoil the soup: Putting all of your comments into one post per day will not necessarily make things more confusing. That's what paragraphs are for. Now, if I can only convince Chris to break HIS posts up into paragraphs... COM! COM! It's all about DCOM, people! :-) Dave: Yes, _Ozoplaning_ is not really all that good, IMHO, but it does contain Jellia's biggest role to date, in or out of the FF. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:44:55 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest On the MS Concept virus: This monster is definitely a cross-platform virus, capable of infecting both PC's and Mac's. For the Mac's at least, there is an anti-viral program called SAM that works very well. I have also heard (but I haven't checked it out myself) that there is a web site called Tuneup.com (http://www.tuneup.com) where you can get a very effective program to eradicate the MS Concept virus on PC's. Tuneup.com costs $3.95 a month and provides an ongoing supply of updated virus fighters off the Net. David: I'm glad to see that there is at least one other Visser fan on the Digest! In summarizing her long and complex account of the evolution of flatware, I may have misrepresented what she says about the development of the fork. Apparently forks with multiple tines were in limited use, in the higher levels of society, as early as the 17th century, but it wasn't until the 19th century that the modern fork with four curved tines came into general use. Incidentally: why do you say that the Wizard left the U.S. in 1840, if the HACC places his arrival in Oz in the 1860's? On the Woggle-Bug's magnified existence: I agree with Ruth Berman that the projecting device was probably some kind of variation of the magic latern. What fascinates me about the Woggle-Bug's story is the way the projected image assumes a life of its own. A representation that comes to life: isn't this exactly what happens when we read fiction? In this sense, the original bug, unmagnified but thoroughly educated, would be analogous to the book that awaits our reading--our imaginative projection--in order to be fully realized. Steve: You have a signed first edition, first state _Wonderful Wizard_??! Don't tell me: it's also in the dust jacket! Correction on that TV commercial that shows dogs barking out the tune to "Ding, Dong, the Witch is Dead": it's an ad for Advantage, not Program. I stand by my endorsement of Program but I've also used Advantage to great--well, to great advantage. The Winter 1996 Baum Bugle looks beautiful and has a number of really interesting articles, including a piece by Richard Tuerk on _Dorothy and the Wizard_ that will serve as a useful touchstone when we get around to discussing that book. My copy arrived with a notice that this would be my last Bugle unless I renew my membership in the IWOC; however, I sent in my check for the annual dues back in November, and it was duly (that one's for you, Jeremy!) cashed in early December. Has anyone else had this experience? Is there someone at the IWOC whom one should notify of the error, or can I assume that matters will eventually right themselves on their own? --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:50:27 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-07 Amazon Books has informed me that the following new book is available. I know nothing about it. Does it have anything to do with the real Oz? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Lost in Oz : Finding Contentment for the Restless Heart" by Michael O'Donnell List: $16.99 -- Amazon.com Price: $16.99 Subject: Religion Publisher: Word Books Binding: Hardcover Expected publication date: April 1997 ISBN: 0849911427 -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:46:49 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-07 Ruth: I remember reading - I think in Fowler - that the standard English/Latin pronunciation (the one that has "Caesar" pronounced "Seezer") of "Veni, vidi, vici" was "Vee-nye, vye-dye, vye-sye." "Waynie, weedy, weaky" sounds better than that. Tyler: You would get along with my wife on scrambled eggs. When I make my famous lox-eggs-and-onions (well, it's famous in my family) I like the eggs to be slightly moist (which imho is not the same thing as "slimy"). So when they get to the point where I like them I serve mine and call her to the stove, and she cooks 'em for another five minutes or so until they look downright powdery to me. I don't think there's a real problem with the chronology of "the Tip/Ozma thing"; it would work out fine for Pastoria and his queen to have been imprisoned for a decade or two, and for the baby Ozma not to have been born until well into the Wizard's era. How he got hold of the baby - after, presumably, the queen had died (perhaps in childbirth?) and Mombi had enchanted Pastoria - is another question, but it wouldn't be hard to work out a story line. Etruscan is one of those maddening languages for linguists. They can read it fine; they just don't know what the words mean, since it seems to have no linguistic connection to any known language. My best teachers were generally in math and foreign languages, and my worst ones were in English. In the sciences I had some excellent ones in college and some awful ones in high school; in history I had an excellent one in high school and some awful ones in college. Jeremy: AOL is only bad if you're trying to get sizable E-mail documents that are sent to multiple parties. At least, at the moment. That seems to be the criterion. By this summer they may have their software fixed. If Dave keeps posting the Digest on his Web page, and you don't get any other similar type of E-mail, you probably won't have that much of a problem. The main reason I left AOL was that they wouldn't respond when I complained. Nathan: >Unless Pipt really didn't like his wife, it would have benefitted him for >Ojo to return from his journey alive and well, with the magical >ingredients. After all, Margolotte was transformed into a marble statue. A distinct point. Even after making another batch of the Powder of Life, he could only turn his wife into a living marble statue - which would probably not be entirely satisfactory. Ojo's quest, OTOH, would break the spell of the Liquid of Petrifaction. Dave: Actually, John Kennedy did sign that post about the alphabet, not that I'd ever have imagined that it was Eleanor anyhow. She doesn't use that professorial style. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:17:58 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Fwd: the spam stopper I still vastly prefer the Digest at your web page, but this may help others --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: the spam stopper Date: 97-04-10 07:42:23 EDT From: VegOut There is actually a way through the spam stopper, I think -- not entirely sure about this. All an AOL member has to do is go to Keyword: Mail Controls and set up the Digest on a list and then click on the allow button for the list. They have to be a bit careful cause if an address is not on that list the mail will be returned ubdelivered So if you make a new aquaitence they would have to be added to that list also so that you can recieve mail from them. This is too restricive for some folks but is one way around the problem you mention. ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 11, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:21:12 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-97 (2) Everyone: I did not proofread my posting that appeared in the Digest of the 10th before sending it; I apologize for accusing the Wizard of striking "suck fear" into the WWE and WWW. A mistype--honest! I hardly improved, telling Scott later in the posting that "a apologize a multitude of times". I need to proof better! R. M. Atticus: Interesting poem. Someone: At first I assumed they were accidental, then the result of Internet mail programs that put the characters at the end of each line; now I give up. Will someone tell me what :-] means? (I can't find it on my keyboard.) Tyler: Even 30 years seems too quick (for the Wizard to gain such fame). Gordon: Re the Wizard and the 20-year travel time from Omaha to Oz--that is another piece of evidence to support the theory that Oz is in another dimension--the time it takes to get there varies, perhaps relative to age and innocence. (There is absolutely no FF evidence for that, I think; it just seems right.) Re the Woggle-bug: Is it possible that like much he says, the story of his origin was simply an exaggeration? (H.M.: Me, exaggerate? Someone as Highly Magnified and Thoroughly Educated as myself could not possibly conceive of such an idea!) David: I think your wife would be furious to hear you say that _anyone_ would get along with her on scrambled eggs. --Jeremy Steadman, with apologies ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:18:57 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Cooking Column While we are continuing the asparagus (an emerald city green vegetable) discussion - I watched a five star chef hold a stalk by the base end and use a potato peeler to peel toward his hand. He then just broke off the end with the peels. It was his thought that it should be peeled. I was taught to simply bend the spear until it breaks and throw away the base end. I have never felt the need to peel it. In California we get nice thin stalks, for much of the season, that you can eat raw if you wish. Bon appetite! Ruth - Thank you for EMF's address. I will resurrect my negative review of "Wretched" and send it to her. David - Back to food - Safeway used to sell packages of Bellina hearts and I used to make Chicken Heart Chow Mein in my wok. It was great. Now they only sell hearts and gizzards and who would want them? However, this was another case of too much cholesteral. Tyler - I think "yoicks" came from Herriman's "Krazy Kat." I'll dig around and find it if you really care. Gastronomically, Bear (:<) ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:51:16 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-07 I don't have food phobias. I just never ate them because I was never served them. Scott ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:03:14 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-07 Mombi never said she got the powder of life from Nikidik, Tip just guessed that the two were one and the same. I believe Baum said she visited a crooked magician. No one ever said this was Nikidik except Tip, who probably would not know. IIRC, Ozma was taken in by Mombi, and she transformed him into Tip. Scott ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:08:10 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-07 As far as BoW's censorship of Patchwork Girl, I wonder if they're going to censor the word "faggot" from _Magic_, even though it is in its original context. I got written up at work for using this word, even though I didn't call someone this to their face. Scott "What do you faggots want?" --Sailor Ripley, _Wild at Heart_ a film by David Lynch --Tippetarius, upon encountering a bunch of nomes about to beat him up. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:54:58 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-07 Personally, I think it's unfair for the judges no to read the entire manuscript. I started mine in high school, and even after revision, the early chapters are not really indicative of what is to come. First of all because I wasn't as good a writer then, second of all, I had not gone on to higher education then, and third of all, I wasn't sure where I was going with it then. It's not fair to judge a book by its earliest chapters, which can sometimes be its worst. Scott ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:59:08 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-97 (2) Aaron: Not trying to make you change your approach, but have you considered my theory outlined yesterday about why Tip was only maybe 10-12 in LAND, even though the Wiz took Ozma to Mombi as an infant? Jeremy: As others will no doubt tell you, there's a recent compilation of the "Our Landlady" columns from one of the university presses - the compiler being Nancy Tystad Koupal,. who's also posted a few times on the Digest, though not recently as I recall. On the other hand, it's not cheap ($35+S&H from BoW). You might try ILL if you just want to read it; it's from one of the university presses (Nebraska, ISTR, but I could be wrong), and so is probably to be found in scholarly libraries. 32 years isn't that long a time to establish an empire, really, especially in a land the size of Oz. Alexander, Genghis Khan, Tamerlane, Robert Clive, Akbar, and probably a lot of others established much larger empires in much less time. (King David's kingdom was probably considerably bigger than Oz, considering that Oz and modern Israel are pretty comparable in square mileage, if not in shape or topography.) Jane: I can answer a couple of your questions: I don't know the E-mail address of the translator of Volkov's books, but I have a Russian edition of THE WIZARD OF THE EMERALD CITY, can read Cyrillic, and can tell you that the artist who illustrated his first book was named Vladimirsky (using the standard transliteration) and definitely not Vladimirskov. And LOCUS is a venerable (meaning over 30 years old) news magazine in the science fiction/fantasy field, which publishes reviews of most of the significant SF-fantasy books published, even by the smaller presses. I don't have an address for it, unfortunately. If you need one I can probably get it. Gordon: I don't necessarily agree with the HACC with regard to chronology. I admit that the 1840s is probably early for the Wizard to have come to Oz; that was just sort of a _terminus a quo_, if you will. But I think the 1860s pushes it a bit too far in the other direction; 30-odd years isn't the difference between "quite a young man" and "a very old man", even in 1900. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:27:20 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz pictures Our web page has lots of new illustrations as of 8:24 pm Thursday. Thanks for the link, Dave! None of yours yet, but soon, I hope. I am now in need of a Buckethead collector with a scanner to scan something from all the rest of the books. Particularly hoping for more familiar characters (aka Nick Chopper, the Scarecrow, Jack Pumpkinhead, etc.) I'm already up to my armpits in skeeziques! ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 21:44:13 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Jeremy: Baum wrote the "Our Landlady" columns for a newspaper in Aberdeen, South Dakota, which he owned. These columns were generally satirical, and they took place in Aberdeen itself. The book of "Our Landlady" columns is probably too expensive for a college student. (I'm not saying that it isn't worth its price.) I don't know of any cheaper way to obtain the columns. Tyler: You might be right that the Scarecrow had an identity other than Chang Wang Woe's, but how did he obtain this identity? Were his clothes enchanted, or what? Something Else: For my history class, I have to read part of William Leach's _Land of Desire_. Just by glancing at the book, I discovered that it mentioned Baum several times. At one point, it states that Baum was in favor of the annihilation of American Indians. The exact quote given is "Why not annihilation? Their glory has fled, their spirit broken, their manhood efaced; better that they should die than live the miserable wretches they are." Has anyone else heard about this, and is there any truth in it? (Of course, the book also states that _Emerald City_ is "one of the last books in the Oz series," so it is a questionable source.) -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:19:52 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-97 (2) Dave! Unless you sent the 04-10-97 (2) Ozzy Digest especially for me, I just got my first "regular" Digest in two weeks! Could it be true? (I still haven't heard from my AOL contact.) _Scarecrow of Oz_: The BoW reprint is out. It hit my local Borders store today. I had asked them to hold it for me, so I got a phone call. As expected, it's beautiful. Steve: I'm envious of your signed _Wizard_ first state, first edition. What condition is it in? Do you keep it in a vault? _By the Candelabra's Glare_: This was apparently reprinted. I had no idea. Anyone seen it? Munchkin Convention: I've been suffering from sticker shock ever since I got the announcement from IWOC. My last convention was in 1980. Seems like you can save a lot of money by going only on Saturday. However, I'm reluctant to miss the new Oz documentary. What else would I be missing? What are folks doing? Veggies: Does asparagus grow in Oz? If it does, I'm sure they know how to cook it. Just like any other vegetable, the key is not to overcook it. I recommend steaming, blanching or stir-frying asparagus. (I use the microwave only to reheat food.) BTW, the okra tastes fantastic in my Chesapeake Bay Gumbo recipe. You won't even notice it's slimy cuz it's also got oysters and Maryland blue crab in it. Been stuck in the outside world, thanks to AOL, Craig Noble ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:19:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Reincarnation in Oz 1) Tyler, the Scarecrow remembering events that happened before he came to life would not appear to be a problem. Other magic-dependents (I can't think of a better term) have such memories, such as Bill the Weathercock, the Public Benefactor, and Humpy. The Scarecrow may be a special case where his 'soul' came from a transformed person. On the other hand, perhaps the 'souls' of other magic-dependents come from previously existing people, in which case there is an obvious story possibility... Sawhorse: ... And that's how I met my tragic end as King of the Omnipotent Horses. Woozy: Wow! 2) David, hmm, , hey! The captivity idea coupled with Usurpation-Restoration time at 32 years could reasonably work without slowed or halted aging. Though it seems a little strange for Ozma to be adopted by a prisoner. Then again, who's going to be able to stop Lurline from dropping a changeling anywhere? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:49:21 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-07 in re: feminism -- a long discussion of this is obviously out of place here, so I'll just say that I have seen too many instances of: 1) self-proclaimed "feminists" who I happen to know for a fact owe their career advancements to their sleeping arrangements, 2) self-proclaimed "feminists" who nevertheless use the inviolate status afforded them by the remains of chivalry to engage with impunity in flagrantly discourteous and insulting behavior that would earn any man a "knuckle sandwich", 3) self-proclaimed "feminists" who skate by in their jobs by handing off anything difficult to big stwong men, because their poor widdle female bwains just can't take the stwain, and 4) "feminist" intellectuals who will attach themselves to any theory, no matter how improbable, silly, or thoroughly exploded, as long as it opposes some target of the moment, up to and including (e.g.) seriously putting forth the legend of Pope Joan as a legitimate precedent for the ordination of women in the R.C. Church (which doesn't even make sense, seeing that according to the legend she was passing for a male). I have, in short, simply seen too much hypocrisy, special pleading, and sheer animal hatred in the name of "feminism" to approach it in the 90's with anything less than suspicion. Perhaps that is most of all because I learned a good deal about both legitimate feminism and intellectual integrity from Dorothy L. Sayers' "Gaudy Night", and cannot help but think that the "feminists" of today have betrayed everything that that novel, and the older generation of feminists, stood for. All of which is not to say that there are not real injustices against women in this world. But as is likely to happen to any "-ism", feminism has picked up a great train of persons who reflexively blame anyone and anything but themselves for their own individual problems, persons for whom hatred (it matters little of what, so long as it be easily singled out) is meat and drink and breath, and persons who wish merely to be "with it", and at a younger age were just as passionately -- and as thinkingly -- devoted to some rock band, TV star, or particular brand of peanut butter. This is not the way (to say the least) to achieve social equity. In re: "Iseus" -- there is nothing like "Iseus" in the King James Bible, which is the only one likely to be used by Seventh-Day Baptists three generations ago. The suggestion that it was a misreading of "Iesus" seems attractive at first sight, but there are problems. First, any Bible that used that orthography would already have been an antique some time ago. Second, it seems unlikely that people so illiterate as to garble the name of Jesus wouldn't have been called on it at the baptism; I'm trying to imagine the scene, but it always ends with the minister saying: "Oh, you mean _Jesus_." On the other hand, I certainly can't come up with a better alternative. In re: manuscript receipt -- I received mine yesterday, and, due to some problems with last-minute corrections, we got it in to the Post Office at the last minute on the 31st, so I'd say to wait only a day or two. In re: Hebrew and "J" -- Well, actually, Hebrew doesn't have any "J", "Y", or "A", "B", "C", for that matter, because Hebrew is written in the Hebrew alphabet. However, "J" has a more legitimate claim than "Y" to be the first letter of "Yeshua", because it is descended from yod, whereas "Y" (along with F, U, V, and W) is descended from waw. In re: pronunciation of "J" -- I believe a transition from a strongly-enunciated initial glide to a voiced spirant is not without parallel. I am quite certain that the English use of "J" derives from the French. n.b., I an transmitting this letter right now, and it _does_ have a signature line. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:07:37 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Hulan: On Tip's comment that Mombi said Nikadik was the name of the crooked magician she got the powder of life from -- I don't think your suggestion (that he must have mis-remembered, because the story doesn't report that Mombi said any such thing) is valid. She might have said it when he heard it, but the story didn't report it, for instance, when she was mumbling to herself while brewing the petrifaction potion, or before she left on to make her visit. On the same topic, Nathan De Hoff suggests that Mombi might have been lying in saying that Nikadik was the crooked magician's name, but that strikes me me as improbable. She has no particular reason to lie about it, and it seems unlikely that just by coincidence she would give a false name for her supplier and hit on the name that actually was (unbeknowst to her) the name of the supplier of the goods. It still seems obvious to me that Nikadik and Pipt and the otherwise unnamed "Land" crooked magician are all the same person, and likely that his full name is Nikadik Pipt. Jeremy Steadman: You ask if Baum's "Our Landlady" columns are currently in print. Don't you get the Books of Wonder "Oz Collectors" catalogues? The volume is available from them. If not, you should probably arrange to get on their mailing list. (The temptation to spend money may be hard on the budget, but you might be able to talk local libraries into getting the books you want.) Anyhow, yes, the full set of Baum's "Our Landlady" columns was recently reprinted in hardback, edited by Nancy Tystad Koupal (U of SD press, I think), and if your budget doesn't stretch to getting it, you might have a library near you interested in getting it. If not, you should be able to get it on Interlibrary Loan. Ruth Berman ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:12:37 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-97 (2) > > Landlady comments: > My impression (and I'll plead guilty--I've not read the columns) is > that LFB's "Our Landlady" columns were not Oz-related. Is a > collection of these columns in print and available somewhere, > somehow, to a poor (financially) college student? > The complete OUR LANDLADY papers were published for the first time in book form last year from University of Nebraska press edited by Nancy Tysted Koupal. The price is $35. I have been waiting over a year for my reviewer to submit his review of this book for the BUGLE. It is a wonderful volume, and, although it is not directly Oz related, it does show the roots of many Oz concepts. You may read about it at > > Ah, so there IS no `h' in Witmark after all! (I need to keep my > whits sharper that that. Sorry.) > I plead guilty of having unthinkingly perpetrating the error. > > --Jeremy Steadman, Oz fan at large (or small) > > From: Ozisus@aol.com > > I'm updating the timeline I did for the IWOC web site and have a few > questions. Does anyone out there know: > > -- if the guy who did the Tales of Magic Land Volkov translations get e-mail? > I'd like to ask him about the Vladimirsky/Vladimirskov spelling. I do not believe he does have e-mail. His name is Peter Blystone. He lives in the NYC area (I believe in New Jersey). I could give you his phone number. > -- does anyone have an e-mail or snail mail address for Robert Luehrs in > Hays, KS? Robert B. Luehrs is in the History department at Fort Hays State University. The departments home page > -- what is "Locus" that recently featured Peter Glassman/Oz books? LOCUS is a science-fiction trade magazine. All it had was a picture of PG at a convention with some of his books. > Jane > > > Steve: > You have a signed first edition, first state _Wonderful Wizard_??! Don't > tell me: it's also in the dust jacket! > > --Gordon Birrell > I hate to disillusion you, but it is NOT first state, and it is in terrible condition having been given to my father when he was seven years old. It was presented to James Witmark, and given by him to James Teller in 1917. Steve T. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:50:11 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Wizard: Currently, HACC theory has the WIzard arriving in 1868, about 10 years after the vanishing of Pastoria. According to the non-FF _Oz and the three witches_, the baby Ozma was in the palace when the Wizard got there. The date of the Wizard's arrival is based on many factors: When balloons came into popular use (late 1850s I believe), the date of the first white settlement in Omaha, the relative age of the Wizard when he arrived, the time it would take to establish himself, and the time Ozma would have spent as a child. Even using age-slowing and other magic, it's very tricky to give a good date that satisfies everything. Aaron and I arrived at the 1868 date as a sort of compromise. If anybody has other ideas, we would love to hear them. One problem with assuming that Ozma was born to Pastoria and his wife while they were in Mombi's custody is that Ozma would then have been with Mombi the whole time, when the Wizard is known to have given Ozma to Mombi. One way around this is to assume that Ozma was a baby for a long time before growing up relatively slowly. If "Tip" took about 20 years to reach the age of 10, he may not notice anything unusual, since by that time, age-slowing would have begun to permeate Oz, though not on a complete basis. I think it is reasonable to assume that Ozma was born just prior to the vanishing of Pastoria and remained a baby for about 12 years when the Wizard gave her to Mombi. The spell of transformation caused Tip to remain a baby for another 12 years or so, then he began to age slowly, not retaining any memories of her/his long term as an infant. We can assume that Ozma's fairy nature combined with Lurline's enchantment combined with Mombi's enchantment caused her to remain a baby for so long. Of course, Aaron's explanation also has merit. That is, that Ozma spent a long time (before and perhaps during her time with Mombi) as something inanimate. I just now thought of this: Pastoria and his wife escaped temporarily, she gave birth to Ozma and hid her from Mombi, who caught up to Pastoria and did the tailor thing. This would require Ozma to only be around for a few years before the Wizard's arrival. Ozma would would still have to age rather slowly between that time and the time of _Land of Oz_, between 4 and 5 to 1, but age-slowing and possibly Aaron's theory could explain that. ********** SPOILER FOR OZ AND THE THREE WITCHES ********** Jeremy: If you accept the events in the non-FF _Oz and the Three Witches_, then it is easy to believe that the Wizard got a fair amount of respect in just a few short years. The stories of the final battle with WWW and WWE would have spread fairly quickly. ********** END OF SPOILER FOR OZ AND THE THREE WITCHES ********** Jeremy: BTW, just to be nitpicky, Gili is not a "he" :-) Spelling: Generally, I pride myself of accurate spelling and good use of grammer. When it comes to the internet, though, I usually just type as fast as I can and rarely try to get things completely correct. I get pretty close, though. MOPPeT conclusion on teachers: Teacher, like people everywhere, come in all flavors. There are good ones and bad ones, trying to do an important job under very difficult circumstances. This same thing can be said for most professions, except for computer programmers, since we're all good! :-) --Tyler Jones ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 17:29:55 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things It's 5:30 and I just *got* to get today's Digest out, so I'll have to wait 'til tomorrow to respond to things...I just wanted to mention that three AOLers (incluing Craig) have now informed that they *received* the Digest yesterday!!! Can this be the light at the end of the tunnel??!! -- Dave ======================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 12 - 13, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:21:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Waldenlau@aol.com Subject: Oz convention at Delavan Dave I received the notice of the Delavan convention and I hope to be there. My neice lives near by and we plan to be there for some of the activities. My question is, do you know when the "show and tell" activity will be?. I have a map I found in one of my childhood books.... I am 80.... and Mr Myers has not heard of a map with the description I gave him. I want to bring this to the convention and share with other Oz historians. I know you are busy so all you need to do is give me the time if you know it or tell me to whom I could email for such information. Thank you for being an active Oz historian. Very sincerely, Jean S. Lau [This person is not on the Digest, so send private E-mail -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:14:38 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Dave: The hexadecimals have returned. Scott: The use of the word "faggot" is even more prevalent in _Kabumpo_ and _Purple Prince_ than it is in _Magic_. If they get rid of the word in _Magic_, they'll also have to change His Woodjesty's "Don't be gormish faggots," and Kabumpo's reference to "faggotty old Faleero." Tyler: I noticed that, in the paragraph in which you discussed spelling, you misspelled the word "grammar." Was that done on purpose, for humorous value, or was it just a mistake? -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:23:39 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 John W. Kennedy, As a relative newcomer perhaps it's not my place to say this, but I agree with one of your hypotheses: "in re: feminism -- a long discussion of this is obviously out of place here". Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 22:34:38 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 On the time the Wizard spent in Oz--has anyone thought about how long it takes to build a huge, at least 4-story Palace, Palace Gardens, and huge City out of green marble? In the Great Outside World, such projects could take decades. Of course, the Wizard & the Ozians might have had a little magic help... John Kennedy I don't like to see anyone oppress innocent anyones, or anyone deliberately deprived of anything good in life because of their age, gender, nationality, religion, etc. etc. etc. And every group does have its share of hypocrites. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 22:42:39 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 I received the Digest again today (4/11). That's two days in a row! It would be nice to know the reason why, but I guess I should just be happy. <> -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:17:39 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 Second post. Sorry, All this discussion about chicken hearts, etc., puts me in mind of Confido (the pampered pet of the Sultan of Samandra, the Imperial Peke of the realm), in _The Yellow Knight of OZ_. He doted on chicken hearts and cream. Talk about cholesterol! What would Billina have had to say about all of this? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 22:45:23 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (R. M. Atticus Gannaway) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 scott: i would think BOW, when re-printing _magic_, would be able to distinguish from context between a bundle of twigs and a hateful, bigoted term. and i'm really not surprised you'd get written up at work for using that word "even though" you didn't call anyone that "to their face." it's a disgusting, trashy word, just like "nigger", which i wonder whether you'd use at work even if it's "not to someone's face." welcome to the '90s. Atticus Gannaway Disgruntled Homosexual/Bundle of Twigs * * * "I am no prophet--and here's no great matter; I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker, And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker, And in short, I was afraid." ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:59:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 Nathan: Herm came up with some rather strongly worded Baum anti-Indian material. I hate to believe it of L.F.B., but I guess nobody's perfect. Craig: BOW did the reprint of _By the Candelabra's Glare_. And of *course* asparagOZ grows in our favorite fantasy land. John K.: I am astounded (but not speechless) at your anti-feminist stance. Of course there are people like that in the feminine-equality movement. Heck, there are equivalent characters in *every* movement, regressive or progressive. The true feminist does her own thing and simply wants to be allowed to do so on an equal basis. The true feminist wants to be allowed to be as aggressive as a male, if the situation calls for it and if she is so inclined, without being called a bitch. (She does not overdo it like the "feminazi.) The true feminist is many things...none of which fall into the stereotypes you cite. I'm sorry you have had such bitter experiences with those who try to take unfair advantage of the movement. A term like "Feminazi" is overused to describe too many feminists. It's actually quite patronizing and allows the chauvinist to feel smugly superior, dismissing the true feminists as incidental to the crazies out there who may actually deserve the term. I understand that you are aware of and disapprove of male/female inequities and that you're not accusing all feminists of being "feminazis," but the tone of your post is disturbing. Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 04:51:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 Scott wrote: > I don't have food phobias. I just never ate them because I was never > served them. > Scott Scott, if you want us to understand what you are are talking about, you should include a short quote or paraphrase of the comment you are responding too. > As far as BoW's censorship of Patchwork Girl, I wonder if they're going to > censor the word "faggot" from _Magic_, even though it is in its original > context. I got written up at work for using this word, even though I > didn't call someone this to their face. Please quote the passage you are referring to. Were you "written up" at work for referring to a bundle of sticks as a faggot, or for using "faggot" to describe a person, in the sense of "homosexual" or as a general derogatory term? If the latter, calling someone a faggot behind their backs is no less offensive than calling them the same to their faces. I suggest you be more sensitive with your use of the word. I am sorry that you will not do us the courtesy of combining your posts, as has now been requested by a number of Ozzy digesters, but as this is obviously your decision, I will refrain from mentioning it again. > going with it then. It's not fair to judge a book by its earliest > chapters, which can sometimes be its worst. If the early chapters of a book are no good, the judges will not be the only ones to stop reading before they get to "the good part". John Kennedy wrote: > in re: feminism -- a long discussion of this is obviously out of > place here Indeed, your entire list is out of place here, being irrelevant, opinionated, and remarkably offensive. As a self proclaimed "feminist", I shudder to think how you would explain the success of women like myself and my mother. I must have either slept my way into Harvard, or been accepted because some big stwong man took pity on my widdle female bwain. But I suppose that where there are men who would stoop to advancing women for the reasons you mention, there are women to take advantage of these oppurtunities for promotion. I would suggest that as long as there are intelligent women subscribed to the Ozzy Digest, this is not the proper forum for you to vent your aggression towards women. > In re: Hebrew and "J" -- Well, actually, Hebrew doesn't have > any "J", "Y", or "A", "B", "C", for that matter, because Hebrew > is written in the Hebrew alphabet. However, "J" has a more > legitimate claim than "Y" to be the first letter of "Yeshua", > because it is descended from yod, whereas "Y" (along with F, > U, V, and W) is descended from waw. I stand corrected. How negligent of me to write that there is no "J" in Hebrew, when in fact I meant that in the Hebrew language there is no phoneme whose pronounciation is equivalent to the pronounciation of the letter "J" in modern American English. As a native Hebrew speaker, I should have realised that Hebrew is written in the Hebrew alphabet. It is nonetheless a fact that the name of Jesus in Hebrew is pronounced "Yeshua" or "Yeshu", or, if you would rather I used a letter that descended from yod, "Ieshua" or "Ieshu". Over the last few weeks, the digest has become increasingly unpleasant to read through. A number of posters to the digest would do well by making an effort to be a little more tolerant of trivialities such as spelling mistakes and typos, a little more aware of the existence of opinions that differ from their own, and a little more courteous in general. Gili ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Gili Bar-Hillel abhillel@fas.harvard.edu gili@scso.com http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== "He thought he saw a Rattlesnake |\ _,,,---,,_ That questioned him in Greek: /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ He looked again, and found it was |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' The Middle of Next Week. '---''(_/--' `-'\_) 'The one thing I regret,' he said, (cat by Felix Lee) 'Is that it cannot speak!'" - Lewis Carrol, "Sylvie and Bruno" ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 12:05:57 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 Stephen: This url doesn't work http://www.unl/UP/bauour.htm> could we get a correction? Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 11:59:17 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest It got through! It got through! The Special Ediion mailing from the 9th, the Digest from the 10th and the Digest from the 11th, with the bulk of the digest as a text attachment. Whatever you did, it worked. (I appear to be getting my copy as a cc. to a mailing to yourself) There's a bug, or, more probably, a case of Inititis which keeps me off the Web from my home machine so I've been entirely out of touch since the 27th. Seems like starting over. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:03:04 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Jeremy: >Someone: >At first I assumed they were accidental, then the result of Internet >mail programs that put the characters at the end of each line; now I >give up. Will someone tell me what :-] means? (I can't find it on >my keyboard.) This is an example of an emoticon, a way of signalling emotion that goes back to the earliest days of the Internet. If you turn your head to the left, the figure forms a smiley face with two eyes, and long nose, and a grin. A frowny face, by contrast, would be: :-( or :-[ You can find a good list of emoticons, including some rather fanciful variations, at http://huizen.dds.nl/~ketel/Internet/emoticon.html And speaking of frowny faces: When I first raised the issue of Jinjur's "feminist" stance, I was mainly interested in the problem of reconciling this prototypically negative image of the women's rights movement with Baum's own experience of the struggle for sexual equality, which I assumed had to be much more sophisticated and informed than his portrait of Jinjur suggests. Robin was probably right in saying that Baum was simply offering an "affectionate satire" of his mother-in-law's political cause. It would appear, however, than even an affectionate satire can have an incendiary effect if it plays into deeply rooted antagonisms. In this light, I want to take exception to John Kennedy's list, in today's Digest, of "self-proclaimed feminists" who exploit the women's rights movement to advance a personal agenda of self-promotion and self-aggrandizement, not to mention outright hatred of men. No doubt such people exist; we've all heard the horror stories--although we also know *where* we've heard the horror stories and should recognize that the circulation of such stories is also part of a political agenda. As a university professor, I work in an environment that is supposedly a hotbed of radical feminism. Not once have I encountered the kind of self-proclaimed feminists that John cites and presents as if they were typical of the feminist movement, and there are certainly plenty of colleagues (men as well as women) on my campus who are deeply dedicated to the struggle for women's rights. One should also remember that feminist thinking is not some rigid, monolithic body of theory that is directed toward specific political goals; it is continually being rethought and redefined, and current writers like Judith Butler suggest the term "post-feminism" to describe the new emphases and concerns that have arisen in the 1990's. It's difficult to see how all the serious, thoughtful work that is being done in this field represents a degeneration of Dorothy Sayer's feminist position. Finally, I guess it needs to be reiterated that the principal focus of gender studies is not on the way women have suffered and continue to suffer, but on the ways that both men and women have been damaged by conventional definitions of masculinity and femininity; Kaja Silverman's _Male Subjectivity at the Margins_ (Routledge, 1991) is a very useful and revealing book in this regard. Having said all that, I would hope that we could in general back off from discussions of political topics on the Digest, since we seem to be getting very close to the kind of hurtful language (among other things, John's suggestion of the appropriateness of using "knuckle sandwiches" and "wooden clubs" on self-proclaimed feminists) that Dave has expressly warned us against, in the Ozzy FAQ. If we're devoted to Oz, we should be devoted to what Oz stands for: kindness, good-heartedness, tolerance, love. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:03:23 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 Bear: "Yoicks" is a fox-hunting cry. The earliest written citation in the OED is from the 1770s, but the context of the citation indicates that it was in common verbal usage well before that. Scott H.: I don't remember a reference to "faggot" in MAGIC. Sure you don't mean KABUMPO? Since the judges say they'll read the whole of all the MSS they get, you're safe from what you'd consider unfair. However, it seems fair enough to me to assume that any MS is submitted in the form in which the author wanted it to be read. If you don't think the early chapters of your MS are as good as the rest, why didn't you fix them? (I realize you were under a time constraint at the end, but that's a matter of budgeting time - it's not as if this contest had just been announced in November or something. I know I write fast, so I wasn't worried that I didn't start on my MS until mid-December, but if it took me longer to crank out words I'd have started sooner. And if I knew that the early chapters of a work-in-progress were going to need reworking to get them up to my current standard, I'd have allowed time for that.) Nathan: I have seen that quote (or a very similar one) from Baum elsewhere; I presume it's accurate. The one I saw was from an editorial in the Aberdeen newspaper he published, on the occasion of the death of Sitting Bull. I don't know how serious he was, or whether he subsequently had a change of heart. At least none of that feeling seemed to show up in Oz. Craig: So Borders has copies of the BoW SCARECROW before BoW has even advertised it? Interesting... I'll take a look at it at Borders, but I've pledged to Peter G. that I'll order all my BoW books from BoW from now on. Okra is OK as an ingredient in gumbos. At least, some gumbos. I object to it primarily on its own. Aaron: It seems that some "magic-dependents" remember what happened to them before they came to life, and some don't. Jack Pumpkinhead, the Sawhorse, and Scraps all seem to have no memories of time before they were brought to life. (We don't really know about Bungle, the other inanimate - as opposed to dead animal - brought to life by Dr. Pipt's powder.) Possibly it has something to do with the method of animation. (From the Oz-as-Literature POV, it's probably because Baum didn't think such memories of inanimate time were plausible, and Thompson did. But that doesn't work from the Oz-as-History POV.) As for the Scarecrow, there's no reason to believe that he wasn't fully conscious before he was put on the beanpole; it just took him a while to figure out how to move and talk. >Though it seems a little strange for Ozma to be >adopted by a prisoner. Then again, who's going to be able to stop Lurline >from dropping a changeling anywhere? There's the question of whether Ozma actually was adopted (as Snow says in MAGICAL MIMICS), or whether she was born while her father was in captivity, with Mombi as his jailor (as Baum says in DOTWIZ). I prefer the latter theory; where there is conflict between Baum and later writers, I think Baum's story should take precedence and we should consider that the later writer's informant got something mixed up. Tyler: >This same thing can be said for most professions, except for computer >programmers, since we're all good! :-) Speaking as one whose wife has been a computer programmer/project leader/manager for the past 21 years, and having heard the tales she tells of her co-workers, superiors, and subordinates, I know that smiley definitely belongs there. Maybe half a dozen of them. :-) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:57:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark K DeJohn <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest From: Barbara DeJohn I am getting the Oz Digest t-shirt information and I need to know about how many of you would be interested in one. I am guessing that the price will be in the $15-20. range. Please E-mail me privately so I can get an accurate count. My theory on the Scarecrow is that the sack that his head is made from at one time carried the Powder of Life in it. The sack itself didn't come to life until the human features were painted on it. Then when the Scarecrow was put on the pole he received the soul from Chang Wang Woe and was able to move the rest of his body. Ozzily Yours, Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 18:14:21 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-97 (2) Jane, the first Jim Henson Mother Goose shows were made in 1987. Additional shows were made in 1988 and possibly later. I can check on Saban, but I'm almost certain it's L.A. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 18:15:24 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-97 (2) Robin, my spelling is impecable in my ms. I don't proofread my emails, that' all. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 18:18:39 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-97 (2) I don't hink ten years was too short a time for the Wizard to establish his empire. The king of Oz, Pastoria, had disappeared, as had his daughter. When the Wizard seemed to come out of nowhere and suggest to them he had great power, they may well have been quite willing to let him settle in. Which would explain Tip/Ozma's youth. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 18:38:40 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 When Tip said he thought the magician was Nikidik, he did not seem absolutely certain. He may have only heard the name a few times and not remembered it, and thought Nikidik sounded right. We've all had this kind of thing happen before in our own memories, or am I weird? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 19:56:04 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 Stalking of vegetables: My half-brother Gus would be quite upset to hear such pointed remarks -- of spearing him or anything else. David: Thanks for the `Landlady' info--I may just do that (get it by ILL, hoping to have no ILL effects). My question of how exactly the column relates to Oz (besides the author) should then be resolved. (Jellia: And who needs a landlady when I'm around to supervise things, anyway!) I'm not sure, though, that I see how an empire can be established in 32 years. Unless the "conquered" peopke are willing to join the empire (the Ozma effect), it still seems somewhat unreasonable. John Kennedy: As another man--one who has seen first-hand the difficult time women have struggling through the world, which is no more gender-blind than color-blind--I want to speak in defense of the feminists you seem to think so little of. In response to your multi-part response: 1) I have seen no evidence of women using "sleeping arrangements" to get ahead in the world. Rather, I have seen them doing their best to hold their own in a continually male-dominated and male-chauvanistic world. I will put forth the example of my own mother. She left a well-paying job in Michigan to spend more time with me, and eventually took a job at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio. The term for which she was hired was one year, but at the end of the year she expected that with her qualifications (she has a PhD. in theater and lots of experience teaching and directing) she would be rehired. She wasn't--but that's not the end of it. Instead, a man with far less experience, _without_ a PhD., was hired in her place. The staff and students at Miami wanted her to stay on, but there was nothing she could do; male chauvanism had taken its toll. 2) I have seen few women engage in the sort of insulting behavior you describe, and no feminists. 3) A woman who takes on the characteristics of a feminist does not _want_ to give the job to a man. She can do just as good a job herself, if not better! 4) I cannot claim to be qualified to argue religion or Christian history with you; here you will have to talk to someone else. However, modern feminists do not _want_ to pass as men, because they don't need to! Until next time, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 20:42:04 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls That was a great one Robin - I've never seen an author "sigh" copies of his book. :) Some typos are just better than others. Jane - I subscribe to Locus. They have an email address now: Locus@Locusmag.com If you need the snail mail address let me know. I continue to be confused as to which Kennedy I am reading? I assume that when your wife uses the email she identifies herself? Whichever, your inditment of "isms" was certainly eloquent. Our goal here is to focus on Ozism but we are only human and our favorite isms are bound to creep in. I have to admit that provides the dressing on my Oz salad. Weekend regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 97 19:53:04 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Sorry about the hexes in the 4/11 Digest...Ruggedo at work again... "FEMINIST" DEBATE: I think the time has come to move this thread into Private-E-Mail-land... It has long lost any vestige of Ozziness, and people's toes are getting stepped on...So you can continue the debate privately amongst yourselves if you wish, but after today I am going to cease posting any messages on this issue to the Digest... ( And I'm not even going to try the get in the last word! :) ) CRAIG AND AOL: >That's two days in a row! It would be nice to know the reason why... Well, I'm sure your continued "pestering" of AOL didn't hurt... T-SHIRTS: I'd be interested in the T-shirts, Barbara! ( Although I'd still prefer an Ozzy Digest badge... :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 14, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 05:25:42 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digests Re: Jeremy "not proofread my posting that appeared in the Digest of the >10th before sending it; I apologize for accusing the Wizard of >striking "suck fear" into the WWE and WWW. A mistype--honest!" You better watch it. I seem to remember a newspaper editor making the same kind of error and being challenged to a duel! Re: Scott's comments re: _Wonder City_ teleplay (info. from Fred Meyer?), and "Baum using an indian princess to bring Scarecrow to life--but didn't use in books." Wait a minute! You can't put these "throwaway" comments on the digest and not explain them! I haven't been able to sleep for the past week wondering what these were about. Please explain further. Thanks! :) Re: Scott's comment about "As far as BoW's censorship of Patchwork Girl, I wonder if they're going to censor the word "faggot" from _Magic_, even though it is in its original context. I got written up at work for using this word, even though I didn't call someone this to their face." I'm sure the word in its original context is fine. I'm not sure I understand how you could be written up at work for using this word in its original context. However, calling someone this word, whether it's to their face or not, would not be using the word in its original context. I'm afraid I'm confused. Re: Craig's asking whether _By the Candelabra's Glare_ was reprinted. I've had a reprint for several years that was printed from an original copy owned by Judy Bieber. Now that's a book I'll bet is in a safe! By the way, Herm, where are you? Oh I remember, you have AOL.... Re: Tyler's comment about "Teachers, like people everywhere, come in all flavors. There are good ones and bad ones...." Unfortunately, one of my worst teachers in college taught a class called "Worlds of Oz" where we studied, at least for the first half of the semester, Oz! But he was a terrible teacher--a fact that was probably not helped by the fact he was in poor health. There were many complaints to the head of the English department, and some changes were made to some aspects of the class. I know several students were furious because the midterm resembled an Oz quiz the type of which you'd see in the Baum Bugle or at a convention. (I must admit, I'd never had a "fill-in" type test in a college English class before.) On the plus side, the professor was a member of the Oz club, and he did recognize my name the first day of class. He passed away several years ago. What did I do in the class? Well, I didn't complain. I kept my mouth shut--and got an "A". Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 06:58:02 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: My Two Cents in Oz On the subject of Jinjur (finally, we get to Oz), my take has been that while Baum had nothing wrong with women as rulers, they had to be the right women. Jinjur, having the Emerald City looted and more interests on chocolate or romance novels, was probably not doing a good job of ruling, especially compared to Glinda and Ozma. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:40:21 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-13-97 AOLers: Now I've received three consecutive Digests! Is everyone else back on as well? Indeed I kept pestering AOL. I forwarded them a list of your e-mail addresses from Dave. However I haven't heard a peep from them about it. If they fixed it on their end, maybe they're too embarassed to tell me what was causing the problem in the first place. (And you haven't done *anything* different, Dave?) Barbara: I must have missed the discussion about Ozzy Digest T-shirts. I'm probably interested, but would like more information. What will they look like?, etc.. Speaking of Ozzy merchandise: I've always thought it would be really cool to have an Oz flag to fly from my car's radio antenna. Does anyone know where I can get one? -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:44:42 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-13-97 Bob: To me, one of the nicest things about Oz is that with no disease or death there, one needn't worry about things like cholesterol. Choice of food can be entirely on what tastes good and not on what's Healthy. And I imagine the Sultan of Samandra had a chicken-heart patch in his palace garden to supply Confido with his treats. Gili: >Over the last few weeks, the digest has become increasingly unpleasant to >read through. It's because the AOLers, who provided such a large part of the "nice" part of the Digest, have been having problems receiving it and adding their responses. :-):-):-) (Actually, I know there's no connection between the AOL problems and the testiness that's appeared in the Digest lately, but it -is- an interesting coincidence. I suspect that the problem centers more on the discussion of LAND, and the fact that there are a number of controversial issues involved there.) Gordon: It should probably be mentioned for Jeremy's benefit that many Digesters omit the hyphen and do a smiley emoticon as :) alone. And that to "read" Aaron's you tilt your head to the right rather than to the left. Barbara: Intriguing theory, that the sack the Scarecrow's head was made from had contained the Powder of Life at one point. Related question: why didn't either shaker the PoL was contained in (in LAND and PG) come to life? We know pepper-shakers can live in Oz; there's Mr. Paprika in Utensia. Jeremy: >I'm not sure, though, that I see how an empire can be established in >32 years. Unless the "conquered" peopke are willing to join the >empire (the Ozma effect), it still seems somewhat unreasonable. Ever read the life story of Temujin (later called Genghis Khan)? His father was murdered and he was left homeless and without any followers at the age of nine. By the time he was 39, he had united all the tribes of Mongolia under his rule. By his death 21 years later he and his armies had conquered most of what is now China, the Asian parts of the old USSR, and Iran, and by a few years later his successors had added the rest of Russia, Iraq, much of Central Europe, the rest of China, and much of what's now Viet Nam. Empires can go up remarkably fast with a talented person creating them - and it's highly unlikely that the Mongols built their empire by winning the love of their subjects... And Oz, after all, is tiny compared even to Mongolia, much less to the Mongol Empire at its greatest extent. And the Wizard didn't seem to exert any serious rule over any part of Oz except the Emerald City area; in the rest, he was no more than a titular head, with the local witch exercising such regional power as there was (and there doesn't seem to have been a whole lot of that, either). The witches probably felt about the Wizard about the way the Prime Minister of Canada feels about the Queen - there's a certain utility in having a nominal ruler, as long as that person doesn't really interfere. Dave: I think the "feminist" discussion lasted about two Digests longer than it should have already, but I definitely approve of your decision to remove it in the future. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests You're not updating them at your site anymore? Oddly, I've gotten the last two as E-Mail (deleted yesterday's, preferring to see it at your website, but it wasn't there!). Now I have today's still, but have not yet bothered with it, as I got spoiled while finding it so easily accessible at your website. Suddenly having to download a big long thing, and trying to read it while the counter is counting and I have to rush 'cuz I could get logged off any second, is no longer acceptable. You made it so easy (enjoyable, even) to read the Digest, now you've gone and made it hard again. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:18:38 -0500 (CDT) From: glassman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 Scott wrote: >As far as BoW's censorship of Patchwork Girl, I wonder if they're going to >censor the word "faggot" from _Magic_, even though it is in its original >context. I got written up at work for using this word, even though I >didn't call someone this to their face. I find this comment highly offensive. First, the only words EDITED from "Patchwork Girl" (I refuse to accept the label of "censorship" since a publisher has the right to edit anything they publish - unless you consider every editorial decision censorship, which would include nearly every book ever published) were those whose meaning was unequivically the result of racial stereotypes common to the period in which the book was originally published. The word "faggot" in "Magic" is clearly used correctly, not as a perjorative. Why would anyone object to this word used correctly? On the other had, I am appalled that anyone would use the word "faggot" in its perjorative sense, especially in the workplace - whether or not they called "someone this to their face." As a Jew, I would be highly offended by your using the term "kike" in ANY manner - whether or not you "call someone this to their face." The perjorative use of the term "faggot" arose from the practice of burning gay people at the stake - for which faggots (bundles of wood)were collected. It is hard to think of a term with more distasteful, distressing or hurtful associations and I seriously question the sensitivity of any person who would use such a term. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:20:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-13-97 Scott: >>Robin, my spelling is impecable in my ms. I don't proofread my emails, that' all. Scott You've missed the point, which was the same one Gili made. I used your misspellings to show how easy it is to goof...so WE SHOULD NOT snipe at each other's spelling. Your very message to her, correcting *her* spelling, was misspelled. I like the digressions we make on the DIGEST...asparagus and all, but I don't like it when we get snippy with each other. I usually let most of it go, but every so often I'll max out and (here's that word again) snipe back at someone I feel has overstepped the invisible boundaries of Ozzy good feeling and taste. I'll try to let more of it slide in the future because I don't like being a part of it, but it'd be lots easier if we could be more careful of our tone. This is an OZZY _Digest_. And while I'm at it...it's been a long time since I've expressed my thanks to Dave for having this available to us. I look forward to seeing what the very bright, very imaginative DIGEST members have to say. BCF: Anyone ever notice how Glinda can't figure out how to get into the E.City when camped outside the walls? The Scarecrow has to figure out a solution for her. Baum certainly hadn't worked out her character too fully at that point, unless we are to believe that her knowledge of magic increased in a geometric progression between LAND and, say, ROAD. --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:55:01 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-13-97 I can see that John and I are now the most hated people on the digest. Anyway, Food Phobias: Ever tried sushi? I've had it twice, once handmade, and once at a Chinese restaurant. The handmade sushi was good, and it contained raw tuna, for all those who think I have food phobias. Chinese restaurants don't seem to be able to make Japanese food. Their sushi was rubbery. Ozma as a changeling? That's an interesting idea. Perhaps she was substituted for Tip, and Mombi warped them together, (ignoring the switcheroo spell MOPPeT). At any rate, the early chapters in my book aren't bad, they're just not as good as the later ones. I did fix them to a certain extent, but was not able to really tweak them in the time alotted. I'm extremely busy with school, so I had to work in writing whenever I could. I finished my MS the Tuesday before the 31st. I started it in early 1994. That's how fast I write. But at one point I did write seventeen pages in a few hours. Also, I'm not sure why multiple postings seem to bother so many of you, but I've tried to condense it to one this time, but I think I submitted a few earlier today. Oh, well. I wasn't condensing them before because I didn't want to forget to respond to everything, but there are few enough things I wanted to respond to this time that I think I did. There is a line, which I did look up for a certain ms, where it said something about Kiki gathering a bundle of faggots. I keep forgetting to look it up; I had meant to quote it. Anyway, it's a good thing that _Wild at Heart_ swipe is not in my contest novel. I'm sorry to have offended anyone in any previous posts. It was not my intent. I didn't actually call someone by that term, merely described a gesture by that term. If any of you have seen _Aysecik ve Sihirli Cuceler Ruyalar Ulkesinde, Korkalagu [Scarecrow] (Metin Serezli), in some scenes seems to have been played as a "pansy," but in other scenes, quite the contrary. As far as the "N" word goes, the only time I ever used that term against anybody was after I heard a guy shout it half a dozen times on _The Jeffersons_, and since I was only five, I only understood it only as an insult, and screamed it at my father when I got mad at him a day or two later, and I'm not an African-American. I've never used it against anyone since. As far as the other term, I was immature about using it, as Todd Solondz wanted to call his film about middle-school kids "Faggots and Retards" because it's how kids that age talk. He actually called it _Welcome to the Dollhouse_. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:07:20 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-13-97 > Dave I received the notice of the Delavan convention and I hope to be there. > My neice lives near by and we plan to be there for some of the activities. > My question is, do you know when the "show and tell" activity will be?. > > Very sincerely, Jean S. Lau > > [This person is not on the Digest, so send private E-mail -- Dave] > I have sent her a private e-mail, but for others who are attending the Ozmopolitan Convention at Delavan, I am in charge of the "show and tell" which will be on the program on Friday evening. If any one else has something to show, please contact me asap so I can include you in the program. > > "I am no prophet--and here's no great matter; > I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker, > And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker, > And in short, I was afraid." > So Prufrock has made it to the digest? > From: Robin Olderman > Craig: BOW did the reprint of _By the Candelabra's Glare_. And of *course* > asparagOZ grows in our favorite fantasy land. Wasn't it Scholar Reprints rather than BoW? > From: Bill Wright > > Stephen: > This url doesn't work > http://www.unl/UP/bauour.htm> > could we get a correction? My apologies, I seem to have left a "edu" out. The correct URL for OUR LANDLADY is and alternative URL is This is all I have on the 04-13 digest. I will now examine the 04.12 issue. Any general comments will follow it. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:29:54 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97 > > Personally, I think it's unfair for the judges no [sic] to read the entire > manuscript. I started mine in high school, and even after revision, the > early chapters are not really indicative of what is to come. First of all > because I wasn't as good a writer then, second of all, I had not gone on > to higher education then, and third of all, I wasn't sure where I was > going with it then. [ Why, then, did you not revise it while it was in your > hands???? ] It's not fair [did anyone tell you the world was fair?] > to judge a book by its earliest chapters, which can sometimes be its > worst. > Scott Scott: I can only echo an editor who explained that he had rejected a manuscript without reading the entire thing, "I don't have to eat a whole egg to discover it is bad." However, I assure you that I WILL read every MS through. But if the opening is basd, I do not think it is what we are looking for. > Something Else: > For my history class, I have to read part of William Leach's _Land of > Desire_. Just by glancing at the book, I discovered that it mentioned > Baum several times. At one point, it states that Baum was in favor of > the annihilation of American Indians. The exact quote given is "Why > not annihilation? Their glory has fled, their spirit broken, their > manhood efaced; better that they should die than live the miserable > wretches they are." Has anyone else heard about this, and is there any > truth in it? (Of course, the book also states that _Emerald City_ is "one > of the last books in the Oz series," so it is a questionable source.) Anyone wanting to read the entire articles by Baum can check out "Twisted Footnote to Wounded Knee" > -- > Nathan Mulac DeHoff > > Steve: > > I'm envious of your signed _Wizard_ first state, first edition. What > condition is it in? Do you keep it in a vault? > Very poor condition. Actually I showed it at the Ozmoploitan "Show and Tell" in 1993. I will not tell you where I keep it, but I may bring it to the Quadling Convention in Tulsa next week. > _By the Candelabra's Glare_: > > This was apparently reprinted. I had no idea. Anyone seen it? > I believe it was Scholar Reprints. I have only a xerox of it I got at Ozcon auction last year. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:36:41 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Since I was out of the loop during the Land discusion, I am probably going to be repeating ovservations made by others. Land was one of the half-dozen Oz books which I inhereted from Ma and her siblings. It was physically one of the older ones -- although not a first edition -- and the one in the best condition. From this I must deduce that Ma and her sibs enjoyed it no better than I did. Somehow I could never work up much enthusiasm for Land. As a child, I thought this was due to the absence of Dorothy. Many other children seem to have come to this conclusion as well, as the letters to Baum at the time no doubt attested. The next time he went to Oz, he brought Dorothy with him. Rereading it, (in e-text version without the pleasant distraction of the illustrations) I have drawn a quite diffferent conclusion. Ghod, but is this a talky book! And the talk is distincly lame. And, apart from Tip, the characters are all grotesques. And there are too many of them. This book ought to be entitled "Five Freaks and a Trannie". Whoever commented that Baum wrote this one with the stage in mind was dead on. It reads like several long vaudville skits strung together. And, sorry, but most of them are decidedly uninspired. Baum was a fine storyteller, He was not a fine playwright. The ugly stereotype of feminism embodied by General Jinjur and her rebel girls (girls, mind you -- not women), somehow this depiction is so over the top that one tends to lose sight of the fact that this rebellion, which succeeded on account of its double weapons of surprise, and its shameless abuse of the traditional, protected status accorded to women, was put down by a female professional army and replaced by a female-headed, and female advised legitimate government. Glinda clearly had no intention of supporting any claim Tip might have been said to have had to the throne unless he agreed to resume a female identity, despite the fact that no one could have argued that merely being in male form would have impared his ability to rule. In fact, a treatise on the political history of Ozzian succession from a gender standpoint could be illuminating, or at least entertaining, if someone wanted to run with it. It also provides a not overwhelmingly flattering mirror of the popular history U.S. intervention in foreign affairs, however much one may choose to dress it up in pink ribbons. And Land certainly does dress it up in pink ribbons. When it is not attempting to entertain us with poor theater, this has also got to be one of the most political books in the FF. Let us say that in a distant third-world city-state, the traditional, legitimate, (male-headed) monarchy was, generations ago overthrown by an evil, oppressive (female) confederation, which is in turn was intimidated into withdrawal by a (male) charlatan, who rules for a normal lifetime and designates up a puppet, or (literally!) straw man regime to replace him. This puppet regime, due to its lack of real authority, is fairly easily overthrown by an immaturely-led (female-supported) uprising, focused upon petty personal grievance and underpinned by abstract concepts of little practical relevance, and which, once established, immediately calls on the last remnant of the original evil (female) confederation to support it and consolidate its power. This highly illigitimate regime rapidly decends into tryany, injustice and general spitefulness in what is a virtually textbook illustration of "victim" thinking gone sour. ("I have been oppressed, I have the right to oppress my oppressors even worse, in revenge. I have the right to be unstintingly given anything I want in return for having survived their oppression.") Being wholey dependent upon a centralized authority with a purely ceremonial support mechanism, it is soon realized by the deposed straw man regime that they have no means to overthrow the usurper, whose abuses have already caused much public unrest, and plundered the conquered territory. After an abortive attempt to regain its power, although the deposed regime has the option of bowing out of the public theater and living comfortably in exile, in a friendly neighboring tin-pot province, its moral outrage at the corruption and injustice being perpetrated by its conquerer, as well as a suspicion that the conquerer may have future designs upon its refuge, leads it to throw itself upon the mercies of a (female-headed and sustained) superpower with unquestioned military superiority, and with stories of the usurper's abuses, attempts to enlist its help in restoring it to power. The superpower, recognizing that the puppet is incapable of retaining its position, even if restored, and no legitimate claim to the throne anyway, declines to do this. If it is to overthrow the current government it will establish a replacement government of its own choosing, and it will decide what consitutes legitimacy, thank you very much. After a bit of research, this (female) superpower discovers the existance of a possible (female) claimant with enough acceptable trappings of legimatcy to be plausible, and agrees to restore this claimant to the throne if the person can be found. Since the only source of accurate information as to the fate of this claimant is deep in the councils of the revolutionary forces the superpower marches in force to intimidate the new government into turning over this person. It sweetens the deal by promising not to oppose the government's leader. What it intends to do about the situation once the "legitimate" claimant is found is never specified. One suspects that should Jinjur prove recalcitrant, spies, dirty tricks and arming the discontented segments of the subject population may have had something to do with it. In the event, the revolutionary leader attempts to bargain, attempts to cheat, and looses out. The counselor is captured, confesses and is forced to comply with the superpower's demands. Once the claimant is found and groomed for sucession, the revolutionary leader is conveniently guided into making a direct act of hostility towards the superpower which handily swoops in, and captures her, destroys her regime and places its own claimant upon the throne, and steps back into the roll of chief "advisor". In perpetuity. And they all lived hapily ever after. Is anything wrong with this picture? ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:13:50 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Gili: I'm not sure if all of the people who correct others' mistakes are complaining. If I make a mistake, I'd kinda like to know. Still, there is a difference between merely pointing out mistakes and being rude. I'd like to apologize if I've ever done the latter, but I can't recall any time I have. Barbara: Interesting theory on the Scarecrow's coming to life, but how did the Powder of Life get in the Scarecrow's head? Jeremy: Baum wrote the "Our Landlady" columns some time before he even thought about writing Oz books, so there may be similarities in the styles of the columns and the Oz books, but, from what I understand, they are quite different in most respects. Personally, I've only read one "Our Landlady" column. It was printed in the Bugle a few years ago, right around when I first joined IWOC. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:18:12 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Jeremy: You continuing reference to the area the Wizard ruled as an "empire" is a little confusing. It seems clear from the FF that the Wizard never ruled the entire Land of Oz, but rather only the Emerald City. In _Dot&Wiz_ he says that he claimed to rule the entire country, but his actual authority clearly only went as far as the green country. Even if he did rule the whole enchilada, Oz itself is probably not so great in extent that it would have taken very long to consolidate it. As it is, IMHO, his "empire" was probably smaller than the state of Rhode Island and had a population less than one-tenth that of Washington DC. Outside of EC, the Wizard definitely had a reputation, but something like that needs only a few years to spread. Melody's point about the time it took to construct the palace and city is well taken, though. Could this have been done in only 32 years? Maybe not, unless some level of magic was involved. in _Lost King_, Pajuka hints that there were some constructions in the area, but nothing on the scale that there is in modern times. There are three problems with putting the time of the Wizard's arrival back in time: The Wizards aging needs to be slowed down considerably, Tip/Ozma would have spent entirely too much time in the custody of Mombi and the history of the Wizard would come into doubt (ie, that he was born in Omahah and was a circus balloonist). Currently, I am assuming that the Wizard was between 25 and 30 when he arrived and approaching 60 when he left. Does anybody have any observations on this topic? Bear: Interesting, but no need for the extra effort to probe into the history of yoicks. Nathan: I have no explanation as to where the Scarecrow got his original (non-Chang Wang Woe) personality, but it must have been something special that did it. THere are no indications that such things as Scarecrows simply come to life spontaneously, even in Oz. Nathan: The misspelling of "grammar" was an acksident :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:17:54 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Oops! I forgot to put this stuff in my earlier post. Chris Dulabone: Would you please update your link to my page? Your current link is to my old page, which will probably disappear pretty soon. On my web page: I updated it a little. Among other things, I added a few more links, and added some more basic information on Oz. Look at it if you get the chance, and tell me what you think of it. Also, inform me if I have any dead links or other problems. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:02:05 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: FW: Oz Digest Here is a question I recently received. To the best of my memory there has not been any particular time of year when the movie could be scheduled on TV. But then my memory doesn't seem to be as complete now days...........:-) Perhaps someone on the digest can help Ted. He is not on the digest so you will have to respond directly to him. Bill in Ozlo >---------- >From: ichi[SMTP:ichi@n-jcenter.com] >Sent: 13. april 1997 21:27 >To: piglet@halcyon.com >Subject: when was it shown (TV) - The Wizard of Oz > >Hi, >Would you help me? Do you know the answer to this question: when, what >time of year, was the Wizard of Oz shown on TV? I believe that it is no >longer a regular TV event, but when it was what time of year was it >shown? >TIA, >Ted > ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:19:56 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Jeremy Steadman: It is perhaps just barely conceivable that the Wogglebug might exaggerate. (One of my regrets over the old "64,000 Question" scandal was that presumably Boris Karloff was faking to some extent or other when he went on as an expert in children's literature. I remember how he strained, or seemed to strain, when he was asked to explain the Wogglebug's initials, giving HM correctly, but trying "Tenably" and a couple of other adverbs before coming up with "Thoroughly" to go with "Educated.") Scott Hutchins: Tip's memory could presumably be misleading him when he says that Nikidik was the name of the crooked magician, but what reason is there to think so? Dr. Pipt's failure to use wishing pills when Margolotte and Unk Nunkie are petrified is a reason, but not a strong one; as I've commented before, he might have viewed the wishing pills as useless when he found they were indigestible (which is perhaps why he threw them out in the first place), or the wishing pills might have been ineffective against other magic. Making up someone other than the crooked magician to be Nikidik is a way of explaining why the crooked magician later has a different name, but there isn't much improvement between postulating that there were two crooked magicians with Powders of Life and postulating that there were two magicians packing the contents of the Powder of Life/wishing pill canister. Either way, what is obviously meant to be one character gets split into two. Lee Speth's idea from some years back that Nikidik changed his name to Pipt in order to go into hiding is certainly possible, but it's even simpler to suppose that the crooked magician's full name was Nikidik Pipt. Incidentally, although Mombi and Pipt were no doubt capable of working out petrifaction spells independently, and the later spell (if considered the same as the earlier) would have to have undergone some R&D in the years between to explain the differences in how they worked -- I wonder if Baum meant Pipt's liquid of petrifaction to recall the crooked magician's previous dealings with Mombi, and to imply that one of them bought it from the other. Nathan DeHoff and Atticus Gannaway and Gili Bar-Hillel: Sensible comments on the hatefulness of "faggots" as a term for "homosexuals" and the difference between that usage and the Ozish "faggots." I don't think the Ozish "faggots" always means just "bundle of twigs," although it does in "Kabumpo". It seems to be something insulting, but the contexts suggest "unpleasant" as the meaning, without implying comment on sexuality. I suppose it partly depends on what "gormish" means, but the context suggests "pedantic" as a translation for "gormish". There does seem to be at least one pleasant homosexual in Oz, "Dick with the queer hatband" (he wears a girl's sash around the brim of his hat), in Dicksy City ("Ojo"). (But as the phrase is rather obscure nowadays, maybe I should add that "queer as Dick's hatband" used to be a synonym for "homosexual.") Nathan DeHoff and David Hulan and Robin Olderman: I'd make a guess that Baum thought he was doing honor to American Indians' sense of honor by supposing that they'd rather be dead than made powerless. It happens to be an idea of "honor" that is evil. Still, any one individual crying in effect "Give them liberty or give them death" and not realizing that such a cry can only be made in the first person, MIGHT be speaking out of well-meaning romantic foolishness, rather than out of a racist belief in the virtues of killing Indians to make room for Caucasians. (Phyllis Ann Karr has an interesting American Indian protagonist in her "Gardener's Boy of Oz.") Joyce Odell: Nice to have you back. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:21:14 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Oz sighting I watched Spike Lee's _School Daze_ yesternight, and it has a chant which involves lines from the Courage poem and the "March of the Winkies" from the MGM film. It also takes some stylistic reference from Nick de Noia's _the magnificent major_, which also stars Tisha Campbell. Notable is that for Lee's next film, _Do the Right Thing_, he used the same property master, Octavio Molina. I don't think it's coincidence. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 16:14:26 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things CRAIG AND AOL: No I've done nothing different...AOL appears to have quietly solved the problem and headed for cover... :) CHRIS: It is too much a time-consuming hassle for me to log on to the Delphi shell in order to upload the Digest every single day, so as long as the AOLers are getting it okay, I won't post it on my site (unless there's a public outcry from the Digest as a whole)...Sorry! "IF OUR SCARECROW COULD DO *THAT*, THE CROWS WOULD BE SCARED TO PIECES!": I like the idea of Powder of Life in the sack destined to be Scarecrow's head...Another possiblity I once theorized is that some of the Powder of Life somehow or other got diluted in the paint used to render the Scarecrow's face...I agree that probably things can't come to life spontaniously -- that seems too much to make Oz a "Magic Anarchy"... "AND THE ANSWER IS...": FWIW, I think that just because some people cheated on the "$64,000 Question" doesn't mean that Karloff did, especially if he was on early on before the rigging began. (And IIRC, it was "Twenty-One" that was the really major one guilty of rigging...) (BTW, I consider the "feminist" issue to be at rest on the Digest, but I can't help a quick public laugh at those who claimed a couple of years ago that the only possible explanation for women ever winning on _Jeopardy!_ is that the show was rigged!) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 15 - 16, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:54:39 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97 David, Interesting comment about cholesterol. I actually had a rather cynical character in my novel mention the insignifcance of a high-cholesterol diet to an Ozite, since she makes all her subjecteat eggs to guard against nomic infiltration. As far as the powder of life goes, someone had a good theory that the powder does bring all the onjects it touches to life, but some things may not have the equipment necessary for us to recognize them as expressing life. Though I don't have the exact quote, in _Magic_, ch 4, it said the Nome King would have preferred to turn Kiki into a bundle of faggots and set him ablaze and be done with him. Considering Peter's comment, and the effeminate name of Kiki, maybe this was one of those kind of jokes. I don't think anyone but a scholarly group would want to publish something like _Father Goose: His Book_ because of (among other things) the poem "There Was a Little Nigger Boy." Peter, As far as your editing of Baum's books goes, that's fine, except that you make the false claim that the edition is a facsimile of the first edition, which you have rendered a lie, as it seems there is an intent to deceive. Bill, Carlos Colon had an article on all television screenings of _The Wizard of Oz_ (1939) to date (then) in _The Baum Bugle_ 29:1 (Spring 1985) pp 19-23. BTW, I was four the only time I used the "n" word, not five. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:01:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97 Ruth, we were told in our histoy of television class that _$64,00 Question_ was not part of the scandal, although it was caught up in it. It is often confused with _$64,000 Challenge_, which was charged, along with _Twenty One_, _Dotto_, and the original _Tic Tac Dough_. I'm just curious, which show did you mean Karloff was on. If it was the same was as Dr. Joyce Brothers it was "Question," but if it was rigged, it was "Challenge." Scott (sorry for the second post) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:03:59 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97 I'm sorry to send a third message, but I only wanted to correct Gili's spelling because it is part of her e-mail response, and is consistently misspelled through no fault of her own. I just thought she might like to correct this. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:19:34 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97 > - and it's highly unlikely that the Mongols built their empire by winning the love of their subjects...< The National Geographic article described the Mongols as completely cruel and ruthless and very much feared! :-( Although I agree with the person who said that some of the writing in "Land of Oz" seems meant for a vaudeville stage, it is my favorite Oz book. Maybe because it *is* meant to be funny. The Children's Theater production of "Land" is extremely good--and it was the Baum lines (like Tip's "A marble statue is a hard thing to be!) that got the most laughs from the live audience. But the stage production also added funny lines of its own. Baum tells us Tip was not as respectful to Mombi as he ought to have been--and the stage production SHOWS how disrespectful Tip was. Mombi: Remember, an idle mind is the Devil's playground! Tip: *You* ought to know! Zim, in his 3000+ years of life, agrees with Jinjur that generally "a throne belongs to whomever can take it." That's probably why Baum tried to make Ozma a more legitimate ruler by changing her from an ordinary little girl princess to a fairy princess in the later Oz books. Rather as the Emperors of Japan tried to justify their rule by claiming they were descended from the sun goddess Amaterasu. Glinda the "Superior Power" was a bit reluctant to undertake the overthrow of Jinjur at first-- Glinda: "What right have I to oppose Jinjur or interfere with her?" This feeling may have also made her hesitate to take action against the Wicked Witches of East and West--perhaps Glinda feared that conquering them would make her no better than they were. Robin: Good point that Glinda couldn't think of a way over the E.C. wall even though she had flown in the Gump herself. She probably didn't have her bird-drawn chariot at the time, either. Then again, perhaps she let the Scarecrow suggest it out of respect--because the Gump "belonged" more to him and his party than to her. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:31:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97 Craig: IWOC sells an Oz flag that might look super on your antenna! _By the Candelabra's Glare_: Yup, Steve's right. BoW didn't publish it; they just sold it to me. Here's the info: Scholars' Facsimiles & Reprints Delmar, New York 12054 It was printed in 19981. You might call BoW and ask if they still have any copies in stock. (It's probably not fair to ask Peter via the DIGEST; he reads this at home on his own, personal PC.) Ruth: I dunno. I read that Baum article and he sure' didn't seem to be at all sympathetic to the Indians. I saw no humor in it, and I really had hoped to find some...didn't wanna believe *my* L.F.B. would write that way, but I think he truly did have a bias there. Then again, I could be wrong:it's happened once or twice. Peter: Thanks for the derivation of the pejorative of "faggot." I like word derivations, even when I don't like the word. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:41:42 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97 Scott H.: Being the most hated person on the Digest isn't all that tough. Sort of like being the poorest person living at the Dakota. The hate level here is really, really mild...(I am reminded of my favorite torture scene in all of literature, in Chester Anderson's THE BUTTERFLY KID. The protagonist is tied up in a chair by alien invaders and has a metal cap put on his head. Under its influence, he finds himself completely incapable of making love to six-foot blue lobsters. As tortures go, he avers, this one was not terribly hard to take.) I've eaten all kinds of sushi. Frequently. I'll admit that I've never even seen it on the menu at a Chinese restaurant, much less tried to eat it there. Multiple postings bother some of us (not me, particularly) because each separate post adds about 6-7 lines of dividers and headers to the overall length of the Digest. Unnecessarily, unless there's something about the software you're using that makes it inconvenient for you to combine all your posts into one, in which case you should describe the problem and either someone will suggest a solution or we'll all recognize why you use this rather bizarre approach that nobody else needs to. It doesn't really matter whether you're directing it at an individual or not; using the term "faggot" to refer to a homosexual is extremely offensive (as, for that matter, is the term "pansy"), and I say this as a thoroughgoing heterosexual myself. (For that matter, I get significantly bent out of shape when a lot of the Chicago TRIBUNE sportswriters seem to vie with each other as to who can produce the most devastating put-downs of white Tennesseeans, of whom I'm one by ancestry if not strictly speaking by birth. But I recognize that white Southerners are the one remaining ethnic group in the US that it's considered OK to put down, whether I like it or not.) Chris D.: As I've said before, you don't have to stay logged on to AOL to read your E-mail. If you haven't figured out how to read and respond to E-mail off-line, E-mail me privately and I'll walk you through the procedure. But "Suddenly having to download a big long thing, and trying to read it while the counter is counting and I have to rush 'cuz I could get logged off any second, is no longer acceptable," means to me that there's something about E-mail on AOL that you're not doing right. Be happy to help if you want me to, even though I'm not using AOL as my main ISP any more. Joyce: LAND was never very high on my list of favorite Oz books (though it was somewhere around the middle). But I really like your reading of it, which is right on target as far as I can see. Of course, we have to bear in mind that Glinda really _is_ a Benevolent Tyrant, which to a considerable degree mitigates her hegemonic actions. But from the standpoint of someone whose political opinions were formed in the Sixties, yeah, you got it. Nathan: I occasionally correct someone else's usage, if it seems like a case where the person would profit from it and it wasn't just a typo or the effect of writing too fast and not proofreading. (E.g., the difference between "compliment" and "complement", which is something I saw in the TRIB a few days ago as well as in the Digest.) I usually try to wait to see the same error at least twice before I draw attention to it. But I hope that when I do, it doesn't come through like a put-down; my intention is to be helpful. (There was a day, a couple of decades ago, when I was being nasty for the sake of scoring points. But then I came under the influence of Oz again...) Tyler: I don't think that building the Emerald City in 32 years would be that huge a feat. In 10 years, yes, but not in 32. Rome wasn't built in a day, but enough of it to house 50,000 people probably was built in 32 years, even without magic. The Wizard's activities from DOTWIZ on seem consistent with someone no older than his mid-60s. However, he did say he was "a very old man" at the end of WIZARD, and even in 1900 60ish wasn't "very old", though it was becoming elderly. (One of my great-grandfathers was 58 in 1900, and lived through WW II.) I think there may have been some rejuvenation for him when he returned to Oz, and that his body was nearer 70 when he left at the end of WIZARD. But this isn't a strong thesis with a lot of backup. Ruth: I don't know what RPT had in mind when she used the term "gormish" in KABUMPO, but I've frequently run across the apparently related term "gormless" - which seems to mean something between "stupid" and "wimpy" in modern American English - in Scottish and Yorkshire dialect. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:28:12 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Barry: I agree with your observation. While Baum's Oz was clearly a land in which women had the (non-cowardly) lion's share of power, he did not generalize. In other words, all women rulers were not presented at the height of goodness or badness. While you had the bad eggs like Jinjur and Coo-Ee-Oh, you also had the good ones, such as Ozma, Glinda and (in a salute to Dave's book), the three Adepts, whatever their names are :-) Craig: While I have never heard of Oz flags being sold commercially, it would not be too difficult a chore to create one. David: Someone somewhere (it may have been on the digest) postulated that the shakers containing the powder of life DID come to life, but lacking anything like appendages or mouths could not make their presence known. David again: You have intrigued me with the geographical extents of the Mongol's rule. Just how far into Eurpoe did his power reach? Robin: As you said, dance with the one that brung ya. In this case, OZ, although the digressions are nice as well, as long as they stay nice. Scott: While the recent discussion in the past few days has far outstripped even the HACC wars of last year (has it really been that long?), I would hope that nobody on the digest makes the AP top 25 "most hated people". Scott again: The only reason so many of us (myself included) gripe about your multiple posts is that each one creates a new header, adding to the confusion and increasing the size of the digest. Granted, in your case it only adds up to a few hundred each day, but every little bit helps. Remember: Be Internet green! :-) I can't beleive I read the whole thing: On the "whole", I have noticed that while individual books do not vary in quality from start to finish, books in a SERIES can often vary greatly. However, I beleive that it's necessary to read a good sized chunk of a book to get a sense of how good it is. Since Oz books tend to be shorter than most commercial offerings, one may as well read the whole thing anyway. JoDel: Very interesting treatise. In some ways, it is similar to an article in the BUGLE comparing the events in _Ozma of Oz_ to the same things. However, in this case, Ozma really was the true heir to the throne and her true form was that of a girl. Of course, her "true" true form is a fairy. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:40:34 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97 (not for pub) If you received a posting from me which contains most of today's digest with a partial comment on "The Indian Princess" do not run it. I seem to have lost it and fear it might have been accidentally sent. I will post a correct digest response in a short time. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:28:16 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Hmm. I see I forgot to put in the line breaks last time. Sorry to make for more difficult reading. (And a thank you to Scott Hutchins for putting his various comments into one e-mail this time -- it does make it easier to read.) Scott Olsen: Enjoyed your Baumian contexting of typos. David Hulan: Perhaps the Powder of Life canister was alive, but enjoyed being a canister and felt no need to communicate and no interest in its surroundings to make it wish to go rolling off on its own? Joyce Odell: Interesting comments on the politics of "Land." Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:36:46 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97 > Re: Scott's comments re: _Wonder City_ teleplay (info. from Fred Meyer?), > and "Baum using an indian princess to bring Scarecrow to life--but didn't > use in books." > > Wait a minute! You can't put these "throwaway" comments on the digest and > not explain them! I haven't been able to sleep for the past week wondering > what these were about. Please explain further. Thanks! :) > The Indian princess that brought the Scarecrow to life was from the first reel of the film HIS MAJESTY THE SCARECROW OF OZ. It is identified in the scenario as "The Spirit of the Corn." When Baum adopted the story into THE SCARECROW OF OZ, he eliminated the creation of the Scarecrow as he was an already existing character. If you do not get an answer on the other part I will ask Fred Meyer about the WONDER CITY screenplay the next time I talk to him. > > Scott Olsen > > The perjorative use of the term "faggot" arose from the practice of burning gay people > at the stake - for which faggots (bundles of wood)were collected. It is hard to > think of a term with more distasteful, distressing or hurtful associations and I > seriously question the sensitivity of any person who would use such a term. > > - Peter Glassman > Although I completely agree with you, Peter, I suspect that most people who use the term realize its origin. That does not excuse their lack of sensitivity. Sometimes pejorative terms become so dissociated with their origins that people really do not know they are offensive. I am thinking of the verb "gyp." In origin it is from Gypsy, with the false connotation that Gypsies cheat their clients. Gypsy itself is a false derivation from Egyptian on the mistaken belief that they originated in Eqypt. The proper term is Romany. Was RPT showing racism in OJO? > I'm sorry to have offended anyone in any previous posts. It was not my > intent. I didn't actually call someone by that term, merely described a > gesture by that term. > Scott > You will find that we are forgiving people, but you must realize that we are not mind readers. The wording of your post suggested you called someone a "faggot" behind his back. Since this is not the case, I will welcome you back to the world of civilized humans and hope that you will not lead us astray again. >JOdel [re: Land of Oz] > > This book ought to be entitled "Five Freaks and a Trannie". > What is a Trannie? > Baum was a fine storyteller, He was not a fine playwright. > Baum had his greatest financial success with the play THE WIZARD OF OZ, which was completely rewritten after his own adaptation. He was trying to duplicate its success in THE WOGGLE-BUG which was a total failure, but was the "evil twin" of THE LAND OF OZ. I have read the script of THE MAID OF ARRAN (his successful play from the 1870s) and it confirms the fact that he was not a fine playwright. BTW: I really liked your political analysis of LAND! Ruth: "Queer as Dick's hatband" originated as a reference to Richard Cromwell, the son of Oliver Cromwell the Lord Protector of England. When he tried to succeed his father he found he could not wear his "Hatband" i.e. the crown. The phrase long precedes the meaning of Queer as homosexual which the OED gives no citation of before 1922. And now: Let peace and harmony reign once again on the Digest. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:10:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Scheible Subject: Censorship, was Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97 On Sunday, April 13th, Peter Glassman wrote: First, the only words EDITED from "Patchwork Girl" (I refuse to accept the label of "censorship" since a publisher has the right to edit anything they publish - unless you consider every editorial decision censorship, which would include nearly every book ever published) were those whose meaning was unequivically the result of racial stereotypes common to the period in which the book was originally published. The word "faggot" in "Magic" is clearly used correctly, not as a perjorative. Why would anyone object to this word used correctly? First, the moral right to edit an author's manuscript lies with the FIRST publisher who publishes the work. The first publisher was chosen by the author, and if the author feels the editorial changes damage the work, the author can argue with the publisher, or even demand that the work be published without his or her name on it. Obviously Baum's text is in the public domain, so you have the legal right to do anything you want to it. But morally, if you make changes to a long-published text you have the duty to warn readers that they are seeing an expurgated version. I wouldn't have minded half so much if there had been a single sentence on the verso title or in the afterword warning that there had been some changes to potentially offensive passages. Now each time Books of Wonder publishes a reprint, I wonder to what extent the text has been altered. Second, "editing" a manuscript means preparing it for publication in all sorts of ways: checking for uniform style, correct spelling, and good grammar. That was already done with Patchwork, when it was published by Reilly & Britton. Removing only offensive passages fits exactly the definition of censor (Webster's 9th collegiate dictionary, online edition): To examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable. -- Patrick Scheible ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:24:38 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97 Scott: Isn't your story about the unfortunate newspaper editor an example of what the Constitution is designed to protect us against--duel punishment? Wow--that English class sounds like alot of fun! Re Digest merchandise: Sounds like a great way to remember the Digest when I'm without e-mail. David: I think Emoticons are Emote-I-can'ts for me. Oh, well--my messages read just fine this way (if prehistoric). I see your point (about quick-starting empires). I'll try not to Mongol the idea so much next time. JOdeL (Please sign your name--I hate responding to an e-mail nickname!) I haven't analyzed the story thoroughly, but one thing wrong right off the bat is your last sentence--". . . they all lived hapily ever after [sic.]." I am _not_ going to analyze your spelling. Instead, I will say that "happily" (or hapily) is far too generous a term and should be reserved for those who don't have wicked witches and Nomes and such to battle. Tyler: Good point (about the Wizard's "empire" being no more than a "city". I do, however, accept your "history" of his arrival, etc. Also, there can be no excuses (for "grammer")! Mine would throw a fit! I'll see you all in Oz, Jeremy Steadman, Ameteur Oz Historian and Professional Joker ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:07:53 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Scott - So you got an A! You also paid for the class. Or was the tuition free? If so you got about what you paid for. I still remember a couple of courses I had to take from "weird beards" for which I paid good money. One said, "Well, I would much rather be working on my research project, but they have told me I must teach this course, so let's get on with it." Sigh! Just for the record, with Compuserve, if a Digest exceeds 30K, it can be downloaded in 30 seconds. Less than 30K takes longer for some reason. Here's to longer Digests. Peter - I realize I am treading on sensitive ground but do you have a source for your definition of the pejorative use of "faggot?" Where and when was this supposed to have happened? Ah Robin, I think Glinda demonstrated the essence of good management. It is always better to let those "under" you find solutions on their own if they are acceptable. If the Scarecrow hadn't come up with one she would have stepped in with her own. Scott - This was a joke, right? You ordered Japanese food in a Chinese restaurant? You may have received the cooks joke on a confused customer. I knew some owners of a Chinese restaurant. I won't tell you what they gave a man who came in and DEMANDED sukiyaki. :) JOdel - whoever you are? - For such a "talky" and "lame" book, it sure exercised you. I'm sure that somewhere LFB is pleased. Every once in a while we have to remember that this is just some guy banging out a kid's story to make a living. He is not writing "War and Peace." OK Nathan - "kinda" isn't a word. :) Cheerfully, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:31:53 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Scott: If my exams were like Bugle or Convention Oz Quizzes, they would be considerably easier and more enjoyable for me. David: Even if the pepper shakers holding the Powder of Life, they had no means of talking, moving, or the like, so no one would really be able to tell. I would imagine that special magic or craftsmanship went into the making of Mr. Paprica and the other Utensians. Joyce: Interesting political analysis of _Land_. Ruth: Now that I think about it, Dicksy Land might be a community of homosexuals, which would explain why only men live there, and why they are constantly referred to as "queer." I didn't think of this the first few times I read the book, and I doubt most of Thompson's child readers would have either, so I kinda wonder why Thompson put the episode in _Ojo_. Maybe Thompson had written the Ojo parts of the story, realized that Ozma would probably send someone looking for Ojo, and put in an episode for Dorothy's party. BTW, is there any signifance to defying someone on his white horse, or was this just silliness? You guessed that "gormish" meant "pedantic." Now, I've seen the latter word used, but I am not sure exactly what it means. Could someone help me out here? -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:30:59 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Non-Ozzy, but take a look: ******************************** DEATH OF AN INNOCENT ******************************** I went to a party, Mom, I remembered what you said. You told me not to drink, Mom, so I drank sodainstead. I really felt proud inside, Mom, the way you said I would. I didn't drink and drive, Mom, even though the others said I should. I know I did the right thing, Mom, I know you are always right. Now the party is finally ending, Mom, as everyone is driving out of sight. As I got into my car, Mom, I knew I'd get home in one piece. Because of the way you raised me, so responsible and sweet. I started to drive away, Mom, but as I pulled out into the road, the other car didn't see me, Mom, and hit me like a load. As I lay there on the pavement, Mom, I hear the policeman say, the other guy is drunk, Mom, and now I'm the one who will pay. I'm lying here dying, Mom.. I wish you'd get here soon. How could this happen to me, Mom? My life just burst like a balloon. There is blood all around me, Mom, and most of it is mine. I hear the medic say, Mom, I'll die in a short time. I just wanted to tell you, Mom, I swear I didn't drink. It was the others, Mom. The others didn't think. He was probably at the same party as I. The only difference is, he drank and I will die. Why do people drink, Mom? It can ruin your whole life. I'm feeling sharp pains now. Pains just like a knife. The guy who hit me is walking, Mom, and I don't think it's fair. I'm lying here dying and all he can do is stare. Tell my brother not to cry, Mom. Tell Daddy to be brave. And when I go to heaven, Mom, put "Daddy's Girl" on my grave Someone should have told him, Mom, not to drink and drive. If only they had told him, Mom, I would still be alive. My breath is getting shorter, Mom. I'm becoming very scared. Please don't cry for me, Mom. When I needed you, you were always there. I have one last question, Mom, before I say good bye. I didn't drink and drive, so why am I the one to die? ************************ Someone took the effort to write this poem. So please, forward this to as many people as you can. And see if we can get a chain going around the world that will make people understand that drinking and driving don't mix. TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE, so please forward this letter to as many people as you can. Thank you for your support: --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:27:17 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Ozzy Film News ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:48:35 +0100 From: Bill Wright Subject: RE: CORRECTION see below >---------- >From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu[SMTP:sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu] >Sent: 26. mars 1997 21:58 >To: Bill Wright >Subject: RE: CORRECTION > >I really would like that e-mail address. I haven't gotten to see the >Smith films yet. I have a book from the library thar says _Number 13_ >never made it past multiplane camera tests. It is not out on video, the >much of his other work is. I'll probably send it too you when I send my >novel submission to the club box. >Scott Scott, here is a copy of the email. I never could get the email address to take tho. So was never able to respond. Bill -------------------- From: Philip Smith[SMTP:lhasa@inch.com] Sent: 25. september 1996 00:59 Subject: Harry Smith, No. 13 24 September 1996 Dear W. R. Wright: I was pleased to see that your "Oz" filmography included the little-known work of Harry Smith, No. 13 (a.k.a. "Oz," "The Magic Mushroom People of Oz," "Fragments of a Fate Forgotten," etc.). In recent years I spent some time pursuing the extremely elusive (to me) story behind this singular work. If you are interested, I could give a fairly exhaustive account of my (admittedly partial and second-hand) knowledge of this very unusual film; have you seen any of the publically-shown fragments of this uncompleted project? (To the best of my knowledge, only 20-30 minutes of footage survives, of which all but about 12 minutes is camera-test footage involving extremely elaborate sets and photography techniques.) I would also be most interested to hear from you to know what information you have about this work. (A very brief essay of mine, "After Harry Smith," which discusses this film, recently appeared in the first book about Harry Smith, "American Magus," edited by Paola Igliori; the book also reproduces [rather poorly, I'm afraid, and in black-and-white] a few frames from the film [which now resides at Anthology Film Archives in Manhattan].) While I would imagine it is primarily of interest to students of the experimental film (and/or animation), what exists of "No. 13" does have a powerful charm most evocative of W.W. Denslow's vision of Oz, and I for one think that it would be of great interest to Oz-enthusiasts, especially if the most finished part (a 12-minute sample) were restored and re-synchronized with its original soundtrack. Thanks much, and I hope to hear from you. --Philip Smith > > ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:37:34 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz Interesting words I am seeing in the Digest lately. Faggot, Kike, Feminazi. Is this the Ozzy Digest or the KKK newsletter? Excuse me, but there are readers of this Digest who fall into the category of 11 years old or younger. I am not among that group, but I do not think these are words that need to be tossed about quite so freely. While I am absolutely AGAINST the censorship of Patchwork Girl (come on, the book is from 1913. It has to be read from that perspective), I do not think these attitudes should be used in modern Digests. Just remember that there are children present, can't you? And adults who don't like to have to hear those kind of words, too. Besides, are these words ever proper in what is supposed to be polite company? Or even impolite company, for that matter. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:47:19 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Re: Ozzy Digest Dave, I am forwarding a belated response from the AOL Tech guy about our AOL Ozzy Digest problems. -- Craig --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Ozzy Digest Date: 97-04-16 14:08:39 EDT From: AOLTechUSS I have forwarded the problem to the Mail folks...they are stumped too. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 14:21:38 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things My apologies for there being no Digest yesterday...Delphi went gaga yesterday send me duplicates and double-duplicates of some peoples messages, some messages got cut off, etc. But things are squared away now... I notice on the IWOC map of Baumgea "The Cave of the Daemons"...Who/What were these, which book(S) did they appear in, and how might they compare to the "demons" in _Locasta_ (who are related to the "demons" in _The Phantom Tollbooth_)? Is it my imagination or is the _Land_ discussion beginning to wind down? Anyone for my setting a date to begin the _Ozma_ dialogue? Audah: Oh no! Not the "Is Books of Wonder Guilty of Censorship?" debate again! Aujah: Don't you mean the "Is Books of Wonder Guilty of Censorship?" mud-sling? Audah: And just when Dave quelched the flames of the erupting "feminist" arguement too...Well hopefully he'll do the same again if things get out of hand... Aurah: Can't we all get along? I've made some revisions in the Ozzy Digest FAQ regarding the the rules and caveats of posting. Here is the main revised part to save people a special trip to my web page: + 1.3 How do a post a message to the Digest? Just send your message to me (DaveH47@delphi.com) and I will incorporate your message in the Digest on the day following the day the message is received. The string, "Oz" should be part of the "Subject:" field of your message. (NOTE: Occasionally a glitch in the Internet sends an E-mail message to Never-never-land instead of its intended destination, so if your message doesn't show up in the Digest in a day or two, try sending it again.) As far as rules for posting messages, generally speaking I do not believe in imposing many rules or restrictions, so long as the discussions stay on Oz. My only admonitions for messages are these: 1) When sending a message to me that addresses its comments to people besides me, it is obviously meant for public posting; but if you write a message to just me, please indicate whether or not the message is private or meant for the whole Digest to "overhear". 2) When divulging the plot of a story, whether yours or someone else's, frame it in a "*** SPOILER ALERT ***" warning , or something similar, so people know that the info therein may "spoil" part of a story they have not yet read. 3) DO NOT post any abusive, profane, or inflammatory messages. Everyone this list deserves courtesy and respect. 4) DO NOT post any but very brief (5 lines max.) quotes from published materials (Oz books or otherwise). 5) If you are yourself an aspiring Oz author, please DO NOT post any of your own writing without speaking to me privately about it first! It is not really the intent of this digest to publish original works, and I feel that posting writing that you intend to publish to a public forum is extremely risky anyway! (However, I might consent to posting brief original writings if the author consults me privately first.) 6) When replying to another person's message, instead of quoting the ENTIRE original message, please try to quote only the parts most important and relevant to your response. This will help each Digest from getting too large. (But please try to quote SOME part of the message you're replying to, so that people will be reminded of the content of the original message that you are responding to.) 7) "Spams" (messages that by the wildest stretch of imagination have nothing whatever to do with Oz) will NOT be tolerated. So please take your sales posts (unless they're for Oz things) and party line numbers elsewhere. 8) You may send me binary files of things like Ozzy pictures or sounds, but note that because of their size, I will not distribute them automatically to Digest members...I will announce to the group that the picture is available to anyone who wants it, and if I like the picture or whatever it is, I may post it (at least temporarily) on my "Oz Gallery" web page. 9) If your identity isn't obvious from your E-mail address, you should identify yourself at the end of your message (I advise signing your messages anyway). 10) I am the Digest's editor and moderator, and I reserve the right to remove from the list anyone who repeatedly abuses their privileges on the list. (Happily this hasn't happened yet!) Speaking of sending my binary files, I've been meaning to mention that Bob Spark sent me a .wav sound file of an "Ad" for AOL that he thought those of you AOLers have been pulling your hair a lot recently might find amusing...If anyone wants the file, E-mail me or Bob at: . And you AOLers *are* all getting the Digest now...Right??? Tyler wrote: > ... (in a salute to Dave's book), the three Adepts ... Thank you! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ======================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 17, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:42:50 -0400 From: Homer Subject: Oz An Ox flag available from the IWOC? Why have I never seen this? How do you get it? Tony Cavalline ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:58:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Live Pepperboxes of Oz? On the subject of whether or not pepperboxes which contain the powder of life themselves come to life, it would appear that the powder of life is formulated in such a way that it does not bring its container to life. If it were otherwise, Tip's pepperbox would have protested when Tip told the Scarecrow to throw it overboard from the Gump! (I assume it would have spoken through its lid.) Tip: It's empty. Throw it overboard. living pepperbox: Spare me, O great sorcerer! I am an innocent pepperbox, having lived a life so short that it would be an unpardonable crime to destroy me now! Nick Chopper: Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:50:52 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 04-16-97 Scott: No offense meant, but I think your message (that multiple postings are just as good as one large one) would have been more effectively expressed had you simply said so straight out rather than showing how silly you think the whole idea is by posting multiple times, apologizing each time (apologies are my area, sorry). NOTE: If this was not your intent at all, my apologies. And yes, I'm being serious here--I do that sometimes, if not often enough Melody: Are you claiming that Ozma's rule is unjustified? I always saw her ascension to her throne as the most logical finale of the Oz ruler drama -- that the tides were flowing that way, so to speak. (Ozma: But Jeremy, I'm not cut out for a ferry tale!) Steve: I'm afraid the exuding `Ozziness' of your header did it. Someone: So there are two Scotts as well as teo Daves (although one's a -ve and one's a -vid). Is there any comprehensive list of regular Digest members whose names are doubled in such a manner? Or better yet, perhaps someone should make a Digest Directory--and perhaps keep it relatively up-to date if possible. **NO, DAVE! THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU! You have enough to do as it is, and I don't think anyone should ask for more than you're already doing. You keep the Digest alive, after all! Ruth: Your suggestion about The Cannister Who Kept Its Mouth Shut reminds me of Baum's explanation of why Toto hadn't spoken in the first few books. Bear: So kinda isn't even _kinda_ a word? Hmm . . . Dave: Wow! Your list of Digest Rules and Regs sounds like the Code of Conduct at Berry College)--at least in terms of length and complexity. But I agree that (unfortunately) it is needed. Out of curiosity, how long did the Digest go on without it (before I came along, I mean)? So long everyone, and may Ozzy thoughts be with you. --Jeremy Steadman ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:44:49 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz The Caves of the Daemons are located in the mountain on that map and are home to five Daemons: The Daemon of Selfishness resides in the front cave. Behind his is the cave of the Daemon of Envy. Behind that is the cave of the Daemon of Hatred, and behind that the cave of the Daemon of Malice. A narrow path leads from each of these caves to a little room inhabited by the Daemon of Repentance, who lets anyone coming into his cave outside by unlocking a little door. They made their appearance in L. Frank Baum's *A Kidnapped Santa Claus*, first published in the 1904 Christmas issue of the Delineator, a women's "service" magazine. A book version appeared in1969 with colorful illustrations by Richard Rosenblum. The current published version is in the Oz Club's *The Runaway Shadows and Other Stories*. ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:10:50 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest 04-16-97 Nathan: >BTW, is there any signifance to defying someone on his white horse, or was this just silliness?< A little of both. Probably King Dick thought he and his white charger might be impressive enough to frighten Dorothy & company into submission. :-) :-) :-) Dick's stunt might be classified as a classic intimidation tactic done in a silly way. Tyler: Your posted poem makes a good point. I don't know if you have this in your area, but we've lately had campaigns against deaths and injuries due to partying, drinking, carousing and driving particularly during graduation. It's about time, as I've heard plenty of "graduation death" stories. Upon rereading, your poem speaks of just a party, not graduation in particular, but it does apply well to graduation get-togethers. Jellia: Why *do* they allow parties to end up tragedies in the Great Outside World??? Parties are supposed to help people feel *good!* That poem made me cry! Chris: Good point. An Ozzy Digest should be--well---Ozzy! :-) :-) Melody Grandy ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:33:24 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 04-16-97 Scott H. (and others): The only problem with the theory that the Powder of Life brings all inanimate objects to life, but some of them (like the pepper-box) don't have any way of showing it, is that the PoL is absorbed into the objects it brings to life. This is documented in several places. So, rather like the classic "What do you store the alkahest (universal solvent) in?", it's still necessary to explain how there's any PoL left in the shaker after a short while. It would seem that there must be some material that the PoL doesn't work on. Incidentally, I just looked up "alkahest" in the OED to make sure that I'd remembered it right, and found that it's another one of those terms that Paracelsus made up in imitation of another language - as "gnome" was pseudo-Greek, "alkahest" was pseudo-Arabic. Or so says the OED. I doubt seriously that Baum either thought of "Kiki" as an effeminate name (certainly his character seems rather high-testosterone, if anything), or had any thought of "faggot" in the pejorative sense in MAGIC. (I'd forgotten that reference, though. Probably because it was so unimportant, and I haven't reread that book in a couple of years.) Melody: The Mongols were pretty nasty in the course of their conquests. OTOH, they probably weren't any nastier than the Romans. And during the heyday of their empire it was proverbial that a virgin with a bag of gold could travel alone from Damascus to Peking [or the Chinese city that became Peking] and arrive with gold and virginity intact. Of course, this freedom of travel through Central Asia had unfortunate consequences for Europe. The bubonic plague is endemic in ground squirrels in what's now Siberia; until the Mongol conquests, travel through Central Asia was slow enough that men, rats, and fleas - all of which die rather rapidly once infected with plague - died off before they could spread it westward. Then the Mongols opened up fast travel, and the rest is history... Robin: I'd like an Oz flag for my antenna, except that my antenna retracts every time either the radio or the ignition is turned off in the car. The poor flag would get crushed. Tyler: I'd have to spend some time checking references to verify just how far into Europe the Mongols got, but it was around the Vistula; they'd pretty well overrun Poland and Hungary at the point when Genghis Khan's son Ogotai (or similar spelling; I'm not about to argue with anyone who wants to transliterate it differently) died and the Mongol armies all turned around and headed back to Mongolia to participate in choosing the new Great Khan. It's one of those interesting alternate-history scenarios to wonder what might have happened if Ogotai (who wasn't all that old at the time - 40ish, I think) had lived another decade or so. The Mongols had conclusively proven by that time both that they could defeat any army that any other power of the day could field, and that castles and other fortifications were no big problem for them. If Ogotai had lived another decade, they'd probably have reached the North Sea and the Atlantic; Iberia, England and Scandinavia would probably have been the only parts of Europe they hadn't overrun. (Mongol armies were nudging into Venetian territory around what's now Trieste at Ogotai's death, so Italy would probably have fallen.) Bear: Certainly Baum was just "banging out a kids' book to earn a living," but if we're going to discuss it I think we should take it seriously. If we aren't, then there's no point in the discussion. I liked Joyce's exposition, even if I didn't agree with all of it. (Obviously THE LAND OF OZ isn't WAR AND PEACE - it's far more readable!) Nathan: If there's something specific about defying someone on his white horse I'm unaware of it, but there's the fairly common expression "man on a white horse," referring to a charismatic dictator who takes the reins of government when the current government loses the support of the people. Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, Peron, Castro - they all were referred to in that way in their early days in power. I would guess that RPT had something of the sort in mind in OJO. And "pedantic" means "acting like a pedant," a pedant being a nit-picking sort of teacher. Unlike any of the teachers on the Digest. (Well, maybe with one exception, but I won't mention any names...) Tyler: "Death of an Innocent" was touching in theme, but pretty bad poetry. And it should be acknowledged that virtually all alcohol-related traffic deaths involve either people with more than 0.15% blood alcohol or teen-agers. Chris D.: With the exception of "Feminazi", the words you object to on the Digest were not used as insults but in the context of discussing their meaning and why they shouldn't be used. I don't think there's anything wrong with letting even an 11-year-old know that these are offensive words. And I think it highly unlikely in this day and age that there are any 11-year-olds who haven't encountered those words. Craig: That's that much more response than I ever got out of AOL. We can, at least, take cold comfort in the fact that it's nothing personal against Oz fans. The AOL E-mail "brownout" has become widely discussed in the Internet community. Dave: Good question about the "Cave of the Daemons". It's not from an Oz book, that's for sure. From its location on the map one would suspect SANTA CLAUS, but I don't find it in a quick scan of that book, either. (Though some "black demons of Pantalonia" were allies of the Awgwas in their war against Claus.) And it's not from one of the AMERICAN FAIRY TALES. My guess would be that it's either from LAUGHING DRAGON or from one of the stories in THE RUNAWAY SHADOWS - possibly "A Kidnapped Santa Claus". I'm reasonably sure one of the even-more-serious Oz scholars like Steve or Ruth or Robin will know the source without serious research, but if none of them turn it up in the next day or two I'll check my copy of SHADOWS and see if it's there. (I don't, alas, have a copy of LAUGHING DRAGON; I was all set to buy the BoW version until copyright problems prevented the reprint. And since I've heard it's a terrible story, I don't think I'm going to spend the several hundred dollars that copies of the original are fetching.) I think the "BoW censorship" discussion got all the play it needed over a year ago. I suggest just excising anything on the subject at this point. Everyone has his or her opinion and it's not likely to be changed at this late date. David Hulan ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:03:37 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Melody: _Land_ is also one of my favorite of the FF, right up there with _Ozma_ and _Captain Salt_. Bear: There is a Thai restaurant in Tucson that also serves Chinese food. You can make a mistake and still get what you ordered. The one time I was there with three others, two of them turned out not to like Thai food and ordered new meals. I finished mine and then polished off the rest of theirs! :-) Nathan: ISTR something about when a person is on their white horse, it the peak of honor, power, nobility, blah blah blah. Therefore, it is nearly impossible to defy someone "on their white horse". Don't bank on this, though; it is but the whisper of a fragmented memory. Pedantic: To teach or lecture in a very boring, superior manner. Dave: The Cave of the Daemons can be found in _A Kidnapped Santa Claus_, a short story by LFB contained in _The Runaway Shadows and Other Stories_. I can't remember much about them, though. IIRC, "Daemon" is the British spelling of "Demon", although in AD&D, they are different species. --Tyler Jones ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:19:52 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 11-10-96 Come into my Web site (said the spider to the fly. Sorry! Couldn't resist!) Http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/harmonyarts Tyler, Dave, and Chris have been gracious enough to test my new Web page, Tyler told me how to fix the graphics, and now they are seeable. (Downloaded the background from a web page with a celtic theme. Unfortunately, my IBM compatible is not too great when it comes to colorizing or scanning in color. Any suggestions as to how to correct this? No, I am too cheap to invest in a Mac right now. :-) ) As long as Compuserve's monthly fee includes 5 megs of room on their system, better use it! :-) Melody Grandy ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:00:46 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Stephen: Well, I would imagine that "gypsies," even if it was an improper term, was the one in common usage when Thompson wrote _Ojo_. RPT did seem prejudiced against gypsies in this book, however. Regarding the proper name for gypsies, the blue-eyed band in _Forbidden Fountain_ lived in the Fountains of Romany. Dave: The Daemons appear in a short Baum story called "A Kidnapped Santa Claus." They are personifications of unpleasant human traits, and they kidnap Santa. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:46:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 04-16-97 OED on "faggot": "The punishment of burning alive, as heretics." First citation of 1555. Chris, of course there are youngsters here, but they're bright or they wouldn't be Ozzies, and the tone of our messages and, well, the *messages* of our messages are--I think--appropriate for kids most of the time, if not always. When someone gets really outtaline, there's usually an "attitude readjustment" message or two, and I think that it's not a bad thing for a kid to see adults trying to be open, kind, and open-minded with one another...and trying to be tolerant and accepting of our differences. Censorship and PATCHWORK GIRL: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. *PLEASE* not again! Mr. Glassman is very aware of the opposing point of view that has been expressed. I hope we're not going over this again. We've said most, if not all, of it before. Dave: I'm ready to move on to OZMA whenever you are. It's my fave of the FF. Obviously Baum thought it was pretty good, too, since he essentially wrote the same story all over again for his TIK TOK play (and book). --Robin ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:30:06 -0400 (EDT) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 04-16-97 I, too, have now been restored by AOL. The latest Digests seem a bit odd. I clearly missed things that I am just as happy to have missed. Two questions: Does BoW print actual facsimile editions or are these books edited or changed in any way? Who will be at Asilomar? Joel Harris ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:35:22 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 4-16-97 Scott H.: I don't believe you are hated by anyone who subscribes to this Digest. Apparently some find remarks you have made offensive, or your multiple posts annoying, but hate? I would be very disappointed to learn that any of my fellow Oz lovers were that narrow minded. Bear: You said, "Every once in a while we have to remember that this (LFB) is just some guy banging out a kid's story to make a living". I say, amen! His intent was not to write literary masterpieces for the ages, but only "to please a child". All: I also second the comment to cease the sniping with regard to typos. From time to time we all make them. (Well, most of us, anyway.) I am aware that I do quite often. Partly due to speed, but mostly due to increasing age, and failing eyesight. Dave: Yeah, let's move on to "Ozma". Tyler: The poem you posted is particularly appropriate now that prom season is approaching. Peace. Dick ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:35:15 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: oz digest Scott Hutchins: I think Karloff was on "The $64,000 Question." So perhaps he had actually read "The Land of Oz." David Hulan: On second thought, I'd guess the Powder of Life canister was not alive -- surely the inventor could work out some kind of control to keep the stuff from affecting the container, if he didn't want to have a live container around the house? // Yes, considering that the dialectical "gormless" means "brainless" (ME gaum, intellect, awareness) RPT might have meant "gormish" to mean "too brainy." (Or, of course, she might have coined it independently as a word for sound-values.) Nathan DeHoff: Er -- shouldn't you be looking up words like "pedantic" in a dictionary? If you don't have one in the rooms where you normally read and compute, it'd probably be a good investment to get a couple of collegiate dictionaries to go there. (However: "pedantic" means "like a pedant," and a pedant is a teacher, i.e., someone who worries too much about keeping small details straight. Evidently's a student's-eye view of teachers.) Tyler Jones: I don't really think the poem should have been posted. Besides being non-Ozzy, the tone of it strikes me as more likely to encourage drunk driving as an act of rebellion against being preached at than to deter it. Dave Hardenbrook: The Cave of the Daemons is from Baum's short story, "Kidnapped Santa Claus." It was reprinted in the "Bugle" a good many years back, and was also published as a very short picture book. I'm not sure if the book is still in print, but Herm or Robin or someone could probably find you a second-hand copy, if you're interested. The demons in the story are emotions, mostly bad guys (Demon of Anger), but including one semi-good guy (Demon of Repentance, who can't prevent what the rest do, but can help out afterward). Ruth Berman ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:41:20 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Bear: >JOdel - whoever you are? - For such a "talky" and "lame" book, it sure >exercised you. I'm sure that somewhere LFB is pleased. Every once in a >while we have to remember that this is just some guy banging out a kid's >story to make a living. He is not writing "War and Peace." The kind of analysis that Joyce is undertaking ("ideological interrogation of the text" is the current designation for this sort of analysis) is not concerned with questions of quality, or whether the text in question represents high art or low art, or whether the writer was following his/her muse or merely "banging out a kid's story". Any text may be considered revelatory of ideological positions. I myself thought this was an extremely astute and ingenious analysis. It is certainly preferable in every way to the kind of reductionist reading that, say, Henry M. Littlefield imposed on _The Wonderful Wizard_. Still, as much as I would like to be totally persuaded by Joyce's interpretation, I have some serious misgivings. First of all, are we really justified in viewing the situation of the Emerald City as parallel to a "third-world city-state"? The typical third-world nation is characterized by (or, for political purposes, is perceived as being characterized by) marginality, neediness, backwardness, and limited economic strength or diversity. The Emerald City, on the other hand, enjoys a position of incontestable centrality within Baum's fictional world. It is not Glinda's situation as a "superpower" that is threatened by Jinjur's insurrection but more fundamentally the integrity of all of Oz. For that matter, the typical third-world revolution that requires an interventionist response on the part of a superpower is conducted in the name of national independence and self-determination, with the goal of ending economic exploitation at the hands of the superpower. Jinjur's army of girls may be in some sense a threat to Glinda's matriarchal authority, but Glinda surely doesn't "need" the stability of the Emerald City in the same way that the U.S. needs stability in the Middle East to safeguard its economic interests. Finally, I don't think that most Americans would identify, even subliminally, our national superpower status with Glinda, whose "advisory" position to Ozma is genuinely subservient (does Glinda *ever* oppose or question Ozma's authority?) and certainly not a cover for a network of economic/political/military control mechanisms. About the "talkiness" of _Land_: what struck me is that there is not only a lot of talk in this novel, but so much of the talk is about *language*: problems of translation, local dialects, high-flown language vs. standard speech, questions of appropriateness of word play. It was precisely at the time _Land_ was written that Saussure and Pierce were establishing the arbitrariness of linguistic signs and thereby founding modern semiotics, and Hofmannsthal's "Letter of Lord Chandos," the classical statement of the unreliability of language, was also written within a year or two of _Land_. I'm not arguing that Baum was familiar with any of this, but his book suggests that the questioning of the stability of language was generally in the air at that time and wasn't merely a concern of remote intellectuals and philosophers. Dave: I know you haven't wanted to impose a schedule on our discussions, but my hunch is that a lot of us are still waiting from some signal from you concerning the BCF. Is it time now to go on to _Ozma_? --Gordon Birrell ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:19:15 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Non-Ozzy request: I asked this on the digest a while ago, but I forgot what the results were. Also, there are new people who may be able to help me. Does anybody know where I can find coca-cola in the traditional glass bottles as opposed to the aluminum cans? I have heard that you can purchase this item in Nogales, Mexico (only a hop, skip and a jump from Phoenix), but if anybody has more leads, I would love to hear them. --Tyler Jones ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:29:21 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 04-16-97 Nathan, probably the best description of a pedant is H.M. Wogglebug T.E.! Bear, I did not order sushi at a Chinese restaurant, it was on the buffet at Forbidden City, and it was not well made. The seaweed was rubbery and pitch black. Chris, I sought to describe Jinjur as a feminzazi because she was clearly an elitist, no other reason, other than that it's a funny term, coined as a joke, as was the character. BTW, am I the only one on the digest who has seen _Wild at Heart_? No one else seems to find my quotations from it funny. Or did all the Oz fans loathe that film? Melody, _The Marvelous Land of Oz_ was always one of my favorites, as you might expect. I used to hate the ending, but that was when I didn't know that there were more than two real Oz books. I finally found out that _Over the Rainbow_ book I thought was some unofficial sequel was Bill Morrison's four part storybook adaptation. Part of the dislike for this ending came from the illustrations, by Keith somebosy-I-can never remember, from Octopus books. He made Ozma really ugly, and then had the audacity to put the caption "Ozma made the loveliest queen that Oz had ever known." Once I found the other books, the end didn't bother me any more, because I liked Ozma. In the stage play _Mago de Oz Cuento de Frank Baum_, director Angelica Ortiz made clear that she had seen the Donahue-Driver teleplay of _The Marvelous Land of Oz_. Dorotea not only mocks Dona Brujilda as Tip does to Mombi, but then she mocks the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman as well "Oh... y-la-oc-ha..." Have you ever noticed that you can hear a lot of male-only laughter from the audience at the revelation of Tip's proper form? Steve, the guy at work is someone almost universally loathed because he should have been fired a long time ago, for reasons it would be inappropriate to mention on the digest. No one knows if he is a homosexual. I do not think I'll use that word in that context again outside of quotation, now that Peter has explained where it came from, since I never knew. Scott ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:01:05 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: For Ozzy Digest I'd like to publicly state my support for Peter Glassman, and all he's done in promoting the continued publication of Oz and Baum titles. I too felt it was unfortunate that Patchwork text had to be edited, but I also understand that although most adult readers are capable of keeping the era a book was written in mind while reading, these books are intended primarily for children. I also believe it is acceptable to make changes to the text to make the book more marketable, although I do agree that any editing should be noted somewhere on the copyright page. As for not being a true facsimile of the first edition, many of the BoW series Oz books are based on later state copies of the book, including: Wizard, Land, and Road. I am content in having a copy of the book as it was intended to be, not necessarily with the various features that have become state points for first editions. Thus, I would have been equally comfortable with a Patchwork that didn't have the "Chap. 3" overlaying the text. Lastly, I think Peter is well aware of the varying positions on this issue, and I should think that we would all have had our fill of reading Patchwork abuse messages by now. Now that I've had my one and only public say on this issue, I'm going to sit back and wait for the release of Master Key.... Mike Denio ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 15:31:09 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Thanks everyone for answering my "daemon" question! Jeremy wrote: >Wow! Your list of Digest Rules and Regs sounds like the Code of >Conduct at Berry College)--at least in terms of length and >complexity. But I agree that (unfortunately) it is needed. Out of >curiosity, how long did the Digest go on without it (before I came >along, I mean)? It's always been there, my having seen the awful things that happen in other Internet groups, and I always wishing to prevent them here! (And I think I've done a fairly good job!) :) People seem to be expressing a readiness to move on to _Ozma_...How does starting a week from Monday sit with everyone? -- Dave ======================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 18, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:10:30 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls David - Baum's work is certainly entitled to be taken seriously and I do. I do think we need to keep it in context however, which was my point. If Baum was the limit of your literary appetite I would sorrow for you. I know that is not the case. In addition, I found "War and Peace" quite readable. Oh, and if you come by some time you can read my "Laughing Dragon of Oz." Gordon - Thank you for the further enlightenment regarding >"ideological interrogation of the text" I will politely reserve my opinion of this activity. Tyler - I would caution you against buying Coca Cola in foreign countries. People drink bottled soda, water, etc. to avoid bugs. I was told that the water used to make these items in foreign countries is the local water, which may be full of the local bugs. I still have a six pack of the old small bottles but you will have to come out here to get it. Have you tried the www? Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:39:02 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (R. M. Atticus Gannaway) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-17-97 SCOTT: i like david lynch but haven't seen _wild at heart_. i have seen _blue velvet_ (which i'm re-viewing this weekend for my "constructing masculinity in american literature and film" class) and am an avid _twin peaks_ fan. maybe i'll check out WAH soon, after i spend a couple minutes knocking out those three papers and reading that long historical novel i've been assigned... by the way, what is _the orange knight of oz_? DAVID HULAN AND WHOEVER ELSE: i think i have a text file of _the laughing dragon of oz_, if you want it. hey, i couldn't get imprisoned for sending it, could i? * * * "I am no prophet--and here's no great matter; I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker, And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker, And in short, I was afraid." ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:24:20 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-17-97 Re White Horse Man: Defying the man on a white horse, as David translates it, sounds like opposing the opposition--maintaining order, in other words. AOL Things Considered: My father has finally broken down and e-mailed me from back home to say that he's giving up on it, even with all the free hours we've accumulated. Mindspring's probably next choice, although he only knows what I've told him about it. Re Glinda vs. Ozma: I imagine that given the proper circumstances, Glinda would have no problem opposing the Ozian fairy princess. And I'm not so sure she hasn't already, although I'm not positive. (Remember, I don't have my Oz resources here with me at college. Oh, well.) With many Ooo's and Oz, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:51:11 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Jeremy: The question of Ozma's legitimacy to rule Oz rests on two legs: Who is the rightful heir to Pastoria and by what right does the family of Pastoria rule? Ozma is definitely the oldest (and only, as far as we know) child of Pastoria even though she is also a fairy of Lurline's band. As such, she truly is the heir to the throne. The question of how Pastoria and his ancestors came to rule Oz is another question entirely. The current body of knowledge that we posses indicates that Lurline flew over the area one day, cast an enchantment to render it into a fairyland, and appointed the ruler of one of the small kingdoms as the overall king of the country. We call this person "Ozroar", although current HACC theory states that this is not the Ozroar that we meet in _The Blue Emperor of Oz_. The main question is this: Does Ozroar, and by extension his descendants, have the right to rule over a fairly large geographical area consisting of several different groups of people, just because Lurline says so? We do not know how Ozroar expanded his kingdom to cover the whole area that we know of today as Oz. It is possible that he did it by military conquest, but it is more likely that the people of the land saw the advantage in coming together as one nation under the protection of the fairies. IMHO (at least today), I believe that Ozma is the actual and factual ruler of Oz. Melody: Such programs are everywhere. As I recall, my high school graduation was quite safe. Nobody wanted to get drunk, we all wanted... (uh, never mind). David: I'd use the theory of saturation to explain the PoL's remaining in the box. It absorbed as much as could, became as alive as it could be, and then simply did not absorb any more. Of course, since Pipt is the one who makes it, perhaps he has the knowledge to create a specially lined can to put the powder in, and can avoid bitter powder face, just like Keystone :-) (yes, that was a VERY bad joke!) Melody: Beware of sinking ships! Even if you won the Powerball, I would not recommend getting a MAC right now. IMHO, it's only matter of time... I say this as someone who bought an old Apple ][+ back in '80. If your system has trouble colorizing, the problem may lie in your scanner or in your graphical editing tools. Ruth: While the urge to do something wrong as an act of rebellion to prove a point is a serious problem, I don't think that the poem encouraged it, although I will grant it sounded a little bitter. Dave: Your date for _Ozma_ as the BCF is fine with me, especially as I will not be online until Monday anyway. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:52:41 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Dave: The hexadecimals have returned! Lock your doors! Close your windows! They'll hurt the children! Oh, and switching to _Ozma_ is fine with me. Joel: Well, not every BoW Oz book is a facsimile (Is that spelled correctly?) of a first edition, but BoW has printed some nice facsimile editions, as well as editions with updated illustrations, new Oz stories, etc. The controversy over _Patchwork Girl_ resulted from the fact that part of the book had been edited, but it was still advertised as a facsimile. Most of the BoW Oz books, however, contain the full texts, as they appeared when first published. Ruth: Yes, I probably should get a dictionary. I don't have one here in my dorm room, and I often wish I did. Scott Hutchins: No, I've never seen _Wild at Heart_. You have probably seen many more films than I have. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:51:24 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: OZ Interactive CD Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' Greg, I'm forwarding your note to the Ozzy Digest. Someone there should know. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: Greg E. Brunelle [SMTP:greg@zion.net] Sent: Thursday, April 17, 1997 5:30 PM Subject: OZ Interactive CD I'm looking for The Wizard of OZ CD-ROM game for Kids. Can you help? Greg@zion.net ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:51:34 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-13-97 (Dave, I know you have put this topic under la cloture, but I hope you can make an exception for the following, as I seem to have been seriously misunderstood by a good many of the digesters.) On the subject of feminism, suffice it to say that if I were the male-chauvinist beastie that my prior postings have been interpreted as signifying, I could scarcely be happily married (and those of you who are Munchkin-convention regulars will agree with that) to a woman with more formal education than I have, whom I met in my occasional capacity as a semiprofessional singer and actor during a series of productions in which she was sometimes stage manager and sometimes director, and therefore my boss. I believe in equality for all, and always have, and if I have seen enough hypocrisy in the name of "feminism" that the word leaves a bad taste in my mouth, that does not mean that I am glad of it. I really must protest, however, that a fair reading of my words could not yield the interpretation, taken by some, that all feminists (a fortiori, all women) are scoundrels. I do not believe that, and I did not write that. Heck, how could anyone be an Oz fan and believe that, what with Ozma, Glinda, Dorothy, et al.? * * * * Gili: in re: alphabets. Sorry, we seem to be at cross purposes. Yes, in contemporary English spelling, "Y" would be the correct letter. But we were talking (or I thought we were) about the evolution of the alphabet. Anyway, yes, modern English "Jesus" is indeed an English mispronunciation of a Latin transliteration of a Greek adaptation ("s" for "sh" because Greek has no "sh", and a terminal "s" instead of "a" to make it masculine in Greek) of the Hebrew name "Yeshua", which also got into English by another route as "Joshua". * * * * As to signatures, I'm afraid I don't get it. I can't put my name in the "From" for technical reasons having to do with this account, but I have a signature line that should be at the bottom of every message; I have to make a deliberate effort to remove it. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:32:53 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-17-97 > An Ox flag available from the IWOC? Why have I never seen this? How > do you get it? > > Tony Cavalline > The Oz flag is not on the IWOC order form, but they have been sold at the major conventions. Fred Meyer has been the one who has brought them usually. He will be at Ozmopolitan this year (as will I). I will be talking with him in the next few days, and will ask if he has any and what their availability and price is. I will try to let you know what he says. Because of their shape and the fragility of their poles (these are very small flags, they would be hard to send through the mail. You might attend the convention at Lake Lawn this June. > From: Jeremy Steadman > Steve: > I'm afraid the exuding `Ozziness' of your header did it. > Jeremy: Did what? What is this referring to? I am confused. > Who will be at Asilomar? > > Joel Harris I will be there (with wife and child). Robin, who is chairman will be there. Chris and Rinny will be there. Peter Hanff, the Registrar, will be there. And lots more. > > From: sahutchi > Bear, I did not order sushi at a Chinese restaurant, it was on the buffet > at Forbidden City, and it was not well made. The seaweed was rubbery and > pitch black. > Anyone who eats sushi from a buffet deserves what he/she gets. Buffet dishes may remain on the table for a long time, and sushi should be freshly made. I am afraid that many pejorative terms "coined as a joke" are funny only to the ones who make them, and are offensive to everyone else. > > -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" Dave: Pittsburg [Kansas] is doing a production of "Blithe Spirit" next week. I will be seeing it next Thursday. Everyone: The Quadling Convention in Tulsa, OK is tonight and tomorrow. This will be my last posting until after it. I shall give a report on it, if anyone is interested. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:38:01 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97 >The perjorative use of the term "faggot" arose from the practice of >burning gay people at the stake - for which faggots (bundles of wood) >were collected. Urban myth. The use originated as a dialect term of nonspecific, but unpleasant, significance, in reference to women. Roughly equivalent, as far as I can see, to the similar modern British use of "cow". It later came to be used as a more general and even vaguer insult that might be aimed at an annoying child or (interestingly enough) a literal cow of the four-legged sort. I have no doubt that this is what RPT was thinking of. It only acquired a specific attachment to male homosexuals in this century, originally, and chiefly, in the US. (I'm rather in doubt about burning of homosexuals in the first place; it was normally a punishment reserved for traitors and lapsed heretics -- and not, by the way, witches, who were invariably hanged.) On the later question of "gormish" -- there is no such word in the O.E.D. or the New Supplement, but "gorm" is slang for "an undiscerning person". Interestingly enough, however, the usual adjectival version is "gormless". Perhaps RPT saw the word and liked it, but rationalized "gormless" to "gormish". (Actually, "gormless" is a much older word than "gorm".) I have to emphasize the "perhaps", however, because as far as I know "gorm" and "gormless" are exclusively British. in re: reading the whole thing. For a while, I read slush for the New Jersey Shakespeare Festival (1962-1990, R.I.P.). I almost always managed to get through the whole thing, but sometimes it was a struggle, and once or twice I just had to give up. It's not just the clumsiness or illiteracy that can get to you; sometimes a perfectly hopeless manuscript has real talent buried in it. Where it gets rough is the plainly psychotic ones. I once consulted one of my employer's staff research psychologists about one of them, asking whether I ought to send it off to the author's home state's authorities as a warning. (She told me that as long as he kept up his writing, he'd probably remain non-violent.) Of course, one hopes that the IWOC contest has produced none of those! // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:14:57 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: oz digest David Hulan: You asked a while back about the development of J from a consonantal Y to the modern-English affricative, and the development of X from the symbol for Greek Chi (in pre-Classical Greek a K+H sound; in Classical Greek a ch as in Loch Ness Monster) to Roman K+S sound equivalent to Greek Xi. Through a combination of the OED and a Greek textbook (Nairn & Nairn, "Greek through Reading") -- Late Latin developed an emphatic consonantal Y, with a stop in front of it, making a DY sound, similar to the 2-syllable pronunciations of such English words as odious and hideous. Under the influence of the D, the Y palatalized, producing the combination sound both modern-English J and Old-French J. (There is a similar progression in the variation on 2-syllable pronunciations of words like hideous that comes hidjus.) In modern French there was yet another change, as the D-stop dropped off, leaving the smooth palatal sound of modern-French J (a ZH-as-in-azure sound). The different representations of sounds in the Greek and Latin alphabets go back to differences between Western and Eastern Greek dialects. The Greek alphabet taught in Greek, science, or math courses is Athenian Greek, which is an Eastern dialect. The Latin alphabet developed from a Western dialect (OED says Chalchidian Greek, but I'm not sure if that's meant to be equivalent to "Western dialects" or more specific). The Romans got it either directly from the Western Greek colonies in Italy, or second-hand from the Etruscans. Eastern Greek used X for their Chi sound, but Western Greek used it for their Xi sound, and, in turn, the Romans did, too, and so do we. (And what, you may ask, did the Western Greeks use for their Chi sound? -- they used the letter that for the Eastern scribes was Psi. The Western scribes didn't bother with a single letter for P+S.) Steve Teller: I think RPT must have had the more modern meaning in mind for the hatbanded Dick rather than Richard Cromwell. The text specifies that what was odd about the hatband was that it was a girl's sash. Chris Dulabone, David Hulan, & Tyler Jones: You mentioned that "A Kidnapped Santa Claus" was reprinted in "The Runaway Shadows and other stories" by the IWOC (something I'd forgotten). I'd add that this nice little collection, still available from the IWOC, is really a must for Oz fans interested in the geography of the Oz-continent. (And are the stories good? -- well, not outstanding, but pleasant reading.) Gordon Birrell: Enjoyed your discussion of "Land" politics as not as close a parallel to US vs. 3rd-world as Joyce had argued, and also your comments on the focus on interest in language in "Land." Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:29:32 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Actually, the "'60s" (actually more '70s) political reading of LAND was more than half satirical, but it does tend to explain why some europeans regard the Oz books as such quintessentially American stories. They really do seem to be a distilation of how America liked to regard itself at the time they were written. Particularly Baum's version. Bumptious patriotism which seems more than a little naive today. S. J. Teller A Tranie is a transexual. It wasn't a pejoritive term, the last I knew. (Given time will probably become one though. Such terms always seem to.) Dave. I won't be the only one to mention this, but I'll add to the chorus. The Cave of the Daemons refers to an odd little short story called The Kidnapped Santa, in which Santa Claus is kidnapped on Christmas Eve by five jealous daemons and held hostage in hopes that the children of the world will misbehave in dissapointment. (They are the rulers of various forms of misbehavior, and of repentance. The Daemon of repentance lets him go.) Their experiment was so unsucessful that they never repeated it. The story itself is on the Oz and Beyond web page at http://www.home.aone.net.au/sk/oz/ Along with the text of most of Baum's Oz books (Tin Woodman is the only one missing) and 6 or 8 of his other childrens' novels. Incidently, I have downloaded these text files and am in the process of building .pdf (Adobe Acrobat) files of them. I've not gotten very far with the project, but I have 3 or 4 put together in a preliminary format. (I may decorate them more later, but first I'm just getting the text into some sort of order.) They aren't a whole lot more graphically complex than the plain eText files, but the font is more readable and the pages are sized for a standard 14" monitor which you can flip through, rather than having to scroll down (I HATE scrolling through a long text. Even more I hate scrolling letter-sized pages in an electronic document. Besides, Acrobat lets you mark your place in a document and go back to where you left off if you don't feel l ike finishing a long document in one sitting.) So far, in testing, I have found that on the Mac, the proper fonts, or a really good approximation of them, is available for viewing and printing, even on a machine which does not have them installed, but it does have to have the Acrobat reader available (well, Duh), and it needs for ATM to be running as well. I've not yet run the test with someone who has Acrobat and ATM for Windows to see how well this works cross-platform. Any volunteers? (Note: I'm on AOL and I kind of doubt that I can send a file attachment to someone outside the system as things are right now, and probably for the immediate future. So, if you are not on AOL, I suspect that it won't get through. There must be someone around here with a Windows system that has the Acrobat reader and ATM who is also on AOL.) The Acrobat code adds approx 100k to the size of a file of all text. I don't know how much, if any more might be added to a file composed of text and graphics. There was considerable talk about a CD-ROM of Ozzy whatever, and this might be a useful direction to explore. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:59:48 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' Mike, I'm passing your request on to the Ozzy Digest in case there are some there who can help out. For the hat, we've used a very large funnel covered with tin foil. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: Mike Cowden [SMTP:mike@ls.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 1997 7:58 PM Subject: I have been asked to design a costume for the tinman for a local high school production. Please send any costume ideas to me at mike @ ls.net. com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 15:11:21 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BCF: Someone E_mailed me privately saying they want a full two weeks before I officially open the _Ozma_ discussion...Anyone wish to second this? OZMA'S RELATIONSHIP WITH GLINDA: FWIW, I think Glinda accepts Ozma's decisions as final, but she has misgivings those times when Ozma ignores her advice...Ozma *should* have taken someone like the Wizard with her to help stop the Flathead-Skeezer war. My MOPPeT is that Ozma resisted Glinda's advice on this occasion because (A) She was anxious to prove that her new magical prowess made her more independent of Glinda's intervention, and (B) Her feathers were a bit ruffled by Glinda's apparent indifference to the threat of violence in an area clearly within Ozian boundaries. And I *do* thonk Glinda was wrong to suggest Ozma ignore it all... ******* SLIGHT SPOILER FOR _LOCASTA AND THE THREE ADEPTS OF OZ_ ******* Because if Ozma *hadn't* gone and stopped the Flathead-Skeezer war, the Adepts might be fishes to this day, on account of which their grandmama Locasta would never have returned to Oz, on account of which there would have been no one there to stop the invasion of Oz by the demons of Whaqoland, on account of which Oz would now be a barren, moon-like wasteland of devastation and all the Oz people would be permanently enslaved!!! :O :O :O ("Want me to tell you about *fate*???" -- Rosie O'Donnell in _Sleepless in Seattle_) :) :) :) Aurah, Audah, and Aujah: So don't be too hard on our Queen, 'cause basically she's *FANTASTIC*!!! :) :) :) ******************************* END SPOILER *************************** MELODY'S SCANNING: I'm not sure what to say about your scanning, Melody, 'cause looking at your web page, it looks great to me! :) If you're having trouble with out pictures, maybe (this is just a thought) you need to Calibrate your Scanner ( I don't pretend to know how, but it least it gives you something to look under in the index of your manual... :) ) STEVE AND _BLITHE SPIRIT_: Let me know how you like the play! JOHN K. AND FEMINISM: I let John's remarks onto the Digest because I feel he has the right to defend himself, but *please* continue the dialogue by private E-mail! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 19, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:28:54 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-18-97 Re: Tyler's search for Coca Cola in the little bottles: This soda is available at our local Vons in 8 packs. It **may** be in the soda section at your local supermarket--it's just hard to see. At Christmastime the bottles had Santa Claus printed on them... Good luck. Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:29:27 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Replying for a couple days past-- (it's been busy!) There seems to be a good case to be made that the Emerald City was not completely built by the time Dorothy first arrived--the case in point are those green glasses everyone was forced to wear that obviously created a false sense of splendor. However, by the time of LAND, the Scarecrow was albe to oversee the final production of the Emerald City, with its true splendor evident. Maybe, the Scarecrow pushed (at least some of the women) too hard, creating a seed of discontent that would allow the women of Oz a reason to revolt, or at the very least, allow Jinjur to fabricate a reason to revolt. BTW-- I'm all for starting OZMA right away, but I am willing to wait a while. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:54:24 -0500 From: Kenneth Hackney Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-18-97 > >Re White Horse Man: >Defying the man on a white horse, as David translates it, sounds like >opposing the opposition--maintaining order, in other words. Unless one is thinking of the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse. There "Death Rode A Pale Horse." Death defying?? Regards, Ken Hackney ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:25:16 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-17-97 Jeremy: >Melody: Are you claiming that Ozma's rule is unjustified? I always saw her ascension to her throne as the most logical finale of the Oz ruler drama -- that the tides were flowing that way, so to speak. (Ozma: But Jeremy, I'm not cut out for a ferry tale!)< Not at all. Just pointing out that Baum was trying to include more justification for her rule of Oz by making her a fairy. Thoughts about living pepperboxes and similar items: I've imagined that that is how wizards grow shoe trees, and chandelier trees, and other such things. Bring a shoe to life and plant it, voila! The living shoe grows a shoe tree. Or bush. Or vine. :-) Scott: And in both stage & book version of "Land of Oz," Tip/Ozma acts so DIFFERENT when he turns into a girl! Thus Snow and I both brought him back, albeit in different ways. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:55:09 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-18-97 Dave, As far as I am concerned about the start of the _Ozma_ discussion, "You may fire when ready, Gridley" (was that quotation correct?). Bob Spark -- "It is well, when judging a friend, to remember that he is judging you with the same godlike and superior impartiality." Arnold Bennett ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 01:21:22 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Runaway Shadows: If this collection is still available (as Ruth says), then I would highly recommend it for serious scholars of Oz. Dave: I tend to agree that Ozma was a tad upset at Glinda for her willingness to simply ignore a potentially dangerous situation in her own kingdom. The fact of rule implies obligation. That is, if Ozma expects these people to obey her and recognize her authority, then she must reciprocate by doing such trivial things as stopping wars. Ozma and the BCF: If someone wishes to wait for two weeks, perhaps needing to read the book, then that would pose no problem for me. I'll just continue to pontificate about HACC theory :-). --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 06:53:45 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 4-18-97 Dave: Since I've changed servers, folks have mentioned the hexadecimal problem at least twice, but I have not experienced it. It would appear the problem is with the receivers, not the sender. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:20:00 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-18-97 Atticus: You can't get in trouble for sending someone a text file of copyrighted material as long as you don't charge for it. Any more than you can for loaning someone a book. If you have a text file of LAUGHING DRAGON I'd appreciate your E-mailing it to me. Jeremy: No, defying the "man on a white horse" isn't maintaining order - it's fomenting civil war. (Possibly quite justifiably, but still.) In fact, that's exactly what the Spanish Civil War was about. Tyler: I hope you're wrong about Macs, but fear you're right. It would be a great pity, since it's a vastly better OS than Windows 95. (I hear Win NT isn't bad, but it's pretty expensive.) It's clear from a lot of the Oz books that many of the small kingdoms and so on in Oz never voluntarily chose to become subordinate to the central government, whether Ozroar, Pastoria, or Ozma. Thi, for instance, had never heard of the central government, nor had the Yips. That being the case, they could hardly have volunteered to become subordinate to it. And while Coo-ee-oh and the Su-Dic knew about Ozma, they'd never given her their fealty. Her claim to rule everything within the deserts has to rest on either Lurline's authority or _force majeure_, not voluntary consent. Nathan: Most of the BoW/Morrow editions of the Baum books are indeed facsimiles, right down to preserving typos from the originals. PG is, so far, unique in actually changing text (and omitting one illustration). I think RINKITINK is the only other Baum book that's going to present a problem of that nature, and I suspect that when it comes out it will either be presented uncut, with a disclaimer similar to the one in SILVER PRINCESS, or BoW will make it clearer in its advertising that there has been editing. Though I'm only guessing; I'm sure we'll all find out in less than a year now. Steve: I'll be at Asilomar, as well. Also at Lake Lawn Lodge. John: >(I'm rather in doubt about burning of homosexuals in the first place; it was normally a >punishment reserved for traitors and lapsed heretics -- and not, by the way, witches, >who were invariably hanged.) Not "invariably"; I recall one or two of the Salem "witches" were pressed to death. I thought I remembered reading about witch-burnings in Germany (well, what's now Germany, if you want to be strictly accurate) in the 16th century, but I don't have any reference for it and it was long enough ago that I'll defer. Anyhow, the difference between a witch (or at least, what a witch was thought to be by the general populace, to avoid getting into another argument with Badger if he's still reading the Digest) and a heretic isn't all that sharply defined. Ruth: Thanks for the discussion of the English "j" sound. It still leaves open the question of why Late Latin stuck a dental stop in front of the consonantal "y", though. Most consonant shifts tend toward making pronunciation easier (as in changing "dy" to "dzh"), and that one would make it more difficult. Joyce: I have a Windows machine that has AOL access, but I'm not sure if it has ATM and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have Acrobat. (I know I never bought either for it, so unless it came with the system it doesn't. I haven't really figured out how to determine what's installed on that machine, since I don't use it for anything but running a lens design program (which requires rebooting under DOS anyhow) and occasionally MS Excel. Marcia probably knows.) Dave: I don't care when we start the discussion of OZMA - today would suit me fine - but I do ask that you set a date and stick to it. I sent you an E-mailed reply to the 4/17 Digest, actually mailed the evening of 4/17, but it didn't show up in the 4/18 Digest even though that one didn't go out until 24 hours later. I hope it didn't get lost, but I can re-send it if you never got it. (Some of it will probably be stale by then, though, since I probably won't have a chance to check the 4/19 Digest until 4/20; we're going into Chicago this afternoon and spending tonight and most of tomorrow there, celebrating my wife's birthday.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:49:20 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest BTW, The point that Gordon made about most of the "talk" in Land being talk about language is one that I hadn't caught. Interesting! And what's more, IIRC, Land is the last book that Baum wrote about Oz in which all of the characters spoke standard english. Afterwards there were almost invariably characters who spoke in dialect, or with some form of speech impediment (little American girls, in particular, seem suddenly to have aquired a diction of such cloying coyness that you have difficulty not imagining them also having high squeeky voices and a tendency to bat their eyelashes. Talk about camp...) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Apr 97 15:13:20 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things I don't know about Macs, but I do know that the Amiga is now so near extinction (despite it's current final campaign to make a comeback) that I can't recommend it to anyone, even though I *still* consider it on its own merits the best of the bunch, especially for multimedia and desktop video...In Oz, the Amiga would IMHO have prevailed, but in our world "building a better mousetrap" is futile if you don't have a good marketing department -- And Commodore-Amiga's marketing-customer relations was slightly worse than Ruggedo's PR department. And it didn't help to have a CEO who was an "Uncle Tom", going along with the popular misconception that the Amiga was "just a game machine", as if Ozma were to go around spreading the word that her own kingdom was "just an MGM movie starring Judy Garland"! Jellia: Even here in the Emerald City we've switched over to Windows 95! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 20 - 21, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:53:40 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (R. M. Atticus Gannaway) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-19-97 Re: LAUGHING DRAGON TEXT FILE oops. it turns out the disk with that file is back home, a four-hour drive. i'll be home next month to help my parents move, so i'll get the disk then. i'll also be able to retrieve all my oz books and bring them back to austin with me. yea! by the way, i'd agree that _dragon_ ain't worth spending hundreds of dollars on. geez, are dealers really asking that much for it now? i spent far less than that and still felt a little funny about it. regards, atticus * * * "I am no prophet--and here's no great matter; I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker, And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker, And in short, I was afraid." ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:47:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-17-97 (fwd) Dave-- Like David, I sent this, but it never appeared in the DIGEST. Wha' happened? Not complaining, just expressing concern. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:38:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-17-97 Ruth: The anti-alcohol poem may not be well-written, but it's well-known among teachers in my area. Many of us read it to our students before prom. I have never had any kid in any way show that they think it's stupid or something to rebel against. There's usually one of those "Gee, this is serious" moments in class, then a short discussion followed by a short writing assignment. In Texas, BTW, many districts have a Pro-Grad night after graduation...an all-night party after graduation, alcohol-free. Pedants: FWIW, my profession is loaded with 'em. I'm sorry that some of you have run into my less-than-terrific colleagues. No one should teach who doesn't genuinely like kids and who isn't ready to expect them to make mistakes, break rules, etc. Part of teaching is to develop enough self-discipline skills to be able to follow rules, but that part shouldn't ever dominate the part that seeks to encourage a love of learning. Oz Flag: I've seen them sold at conventions. Joel: I'll be at Asilomar. (I'd better be: I'm cohosting the conference.) Ozmopolitan: Who's gonna be at Lake Lawn besides Pete, Steve, Patrick, Jane, Jim, David, and me? Melody? You coming this year? (I hope so.) Daemons: I'm glad the rest of you caught the question. I didn't even see it! Sorry, Dave! Dunno how I could miss it. Gordon: No, Glinda certainly doesn't need the Emerald City or central gov't. or anything like it. She's pretty self-sufficient. And no, she DOESn't ever go against Ozma's wishes and is clearly subservient to her. This is why my MoPPET states that her function is to help Ozma...teach, protect, etc. Someone sent Glinda to Oz for that purpose, and once she realized that Ozma was not permanently lost to her, she became active. I note that she didn't give a dip about who was ruling Oz until she thought she might be able to get Ozma back and on the throne. Long post. Sorry. Bye! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:28:35 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-19-97 Scott, In reference to the Coca Cola bottles at Von's, I believe that if you were to examine them closely you would find that they were plastic. Very clever imitation, but plastic. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 06:45:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "John N. White" Subject: The Hexed Digests of Oz Richard Randolph writes: > Dave: Since I've changed servers, folks have mentioned the > hexadecimal problem at least twice, but I have not experienced > it. It would appear the problem is with the receivers, not the > sender. I once thought that, since I didn't see the hexed digests either. But now I know that my ISP was detecting the hexing and de-hexing the digests for me. There is a line added to the full header (which most mail readers don't show) saying that this has been done. The problem is definitely on the sending end. Delphi hexes the digest if it detects a character with the high bit set. The last few hexed digests were due to some characters with the high bit set that were in Aaron's sig. But in the past, several different people have had such characters in their posts. I think the best solution would to convert all characters with the high bit set to '~' characters before mailing the digest. As I understand it, Dave already has a C program building the digest, and this conversion could be done very easily. Assuming "line" is the name of a null-terminated string containing a line to be written to the digest, and "i" is an available integer, the conversion could look something like: for(i=0; line[i]; i++) if(line[i] & 0x80) line[i] = '~'; I had previously e-mailed Dave this suggestion, but then there was another hexed digest -- again due to characters with the high bit set -- so I don't think my e-mail got to him. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:55:22 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-19-97 The Acrobat reader is bundled with just about all Adobe products, (major products also get you the Distiller utility) and like most readers is essentially freeware. You can probably download it from Adobe's AOL forum or their web site. I don't know for certain whether ATM is rolled into the reader package, but I seem to recall that at least a stripped-down version of it is. After all, Adobe is trying to push this technology as a cross-platform/web standard. They want EVERYONE to be able to read any documents written in it. Macs are still a safe investment. Unless you are the sort of person who has to have the newest and latest of everything, or who is in a position where you HAVE to run the most current major software (upgrading software to versions written with systems in mind that didn't exist when yours was purchased is the basic reason for outgrowing your hardware--on any platform) A current MacOS system purchased now will see 85-90% of its users through any of the uproars which are likely to happen over the next five years (possibly longer) by which time it will be evident as to whether the Mac survived or not. Regardless of the fate of Apple. If Ellison's hostile takeover bid succeds, and he impliments the intended changes that he has announced to the press, it seems likely that the MacOS would become the core product of an independent software company serving any CHRP box manufacturer willing to conform to the guidelines. If it doesn't, it's business as usual, for now. Mac users have a secret resource which rarely gets mentioned in that there is a VERY active users' group network which could probably tide them over through all but the absoulte extinction of Apple and all of its clone makers together. And would manage to keep most of them going for a few years even if so. I suspect that the Mac is not the only platform which can say this. BTW, The statistics about platform market share which the media keeps shoving in your face are, perhaps deliberately, decieving. The stats, remember, lump ALL of the Windows OS versions together. Windows 95's share is only a few percentage points larger than the Mac's. NT, and CE(?) are both far smaller. It's all those ranks on ranks of Win 3.1 users which account for the pervasiveness of the Windows OS statistics, and last I heard, MS was about to stop supportfor 3.1 altogether. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:25:21 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-18-97 and 4-19 The 18th: Tyler: Indeed, saying Ozroar obtained control over Oz through conquest would be--unOzzy! Steve: When I said "the exuding Ozziness of your header did it", I meant that you said in your post that you did not want the content thereof to be put in the Digest for all to read, yet it ended up there anyway; my point was that you included the word `Oz' in your header, and that was why. Chances are I misinterpreted everything completely, as usual. On to the 19th: Kenneth: Rather than go back and look up what I was talking about when I called "Defying the man on a white horse, as David translates it, sounds like opposing the opposition--maintaining order, in other words", I am going to let the matter drop, unless someone is interested. That is, I knew what I meant when I said it, and it was a very perceptive and relevant thought at the time. Tyler: You say ". . . Ozma must reciprocate by doing such trivial things as stopping wars." Is the act of stopping a war a trivial thing? Even granted that in Oz, stopping a war takes little effort (for the most part), stopping a war in itself is hardly trivial. David: Okay, I give in; I'll go back and look at the "white horse man" discussion that started the whole thing. ** later ** I found it. What I meant was that if a man on a white horse is a "charismatic dictator who takes the reins of government when the current government loses the support of the people" (as you say in the Digest of the 17th), then someone who defies such a man (or woman, for that matter) is trying to maintain the current government, or "trying to maintain order" as I said in my much-argued statement. Again, I probably have it all wrong, but that was my original interpretation; if that interpretation is right, then the defiance of a man on a white horse is defying the man who is trying to start a civil war. (That's not to say I figured out its correct usage, of course . . .) Out of curiosity, what is Windows NT? Out of curiosity, when you mention `PG', to what book do you refer? When you're in Dos, there is a way to get it to list all files (possibly dir c: or something like that); then you could find out what your computer has and does not have. I'm no computer expert, so I can't tell you for sure. Until next time, Jeremy Steadman, Ameteur Ozographer and Expert Nonsense-speaker ====================================================================== Content-return: allowed Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:38:40 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: No OZ OS finalized yet (for OZZY D publication, if you so deem, Dave) Since religious topics are never shied away from on the Ozzy D, I thought I'd jump into the fray (and right back out) on the topic of OS advocacy. I've never owned an Amiga, though I know one person who lost a great job at a prominent computer graphics firm when he insisted that their home-brewed software didn't measure up to what he could do with his Amiga. The prediction is that all Mac owners are about to find themselves orphaned, just like Amiga owners. To me, this is unlikely to happen for various reasons, one or two of which I'll share here, hoping to lay this topic to rest in the lull between _Land_ and _Ozma_. If you wish to pursue it with me further, please do so via private e-mail. When you decide it's time to buy a computer, you should consider a few factors apart from the obvious ones like cost. What will your primary use of the computer be? Are you going to be playing video games with it? Will you be teaching yourself visual C++? Are you going to live exclusively in Microsoft Word or Nisus Writer? Do you want to be a desktop publisher, web publisher, or CD-ROM developer? Are you going to be doing 3D computer graphics? Animating for video? Animating for film? Editing broadcast video? Are you going to buy a machine for its versatility, or because of one primary application that runs exclusively on one platform? Do you want to use buggy pre-release versions of the software so you can shape the direction the developers take with it while using their expensive software for free? Do you plan not to worry about the competitive bleeding edge of the technology curve, because you can wait until the program works reliably and intuitively all the time? If the program is available for both platforms, (almost all are) for which one was it developed originally? On which one does it run the best? What do your friends use, and do you have a friend who can revive your poor machine after you're afraid you're only going to make things worse by trying anything else? What have you used, what would you like to use, what might run better on what system? Only you can answer any of those questions. You'd be amazed at what you can get for between fifteen hundred and five thousand dollars. Now is a great time to buy any computer. Ram is dirt cheap (comparatively) and I would never consider using less than 64 megs for a primary system. Cpus are getting faster and cheaper. I'm running NT on a 200 Mhz P6 Pentium (of Borg), and the Mac OS on a 100 Mhz Powermac, and installing a cheap windows 95 box for an office intranet server, so that graphics files can be swapped easily between the two primary systems (and play video games). We're still lusting after a 250 Mhz Motorola PowerPC 604e. A dual cpu system is a serious option. Between summer and the end of the year is usually the best time to get a good deal, (since you'll be using the system for business, the hardware is a handy tax deduction) and everybody's crystal ball will be more reliable by then, anyhow. The situation as I see it is this. Steve Jobs has experienced the sweetest tale of revenge I've ever seen. After being fired from Apple, Jobs bought Pixar from George Lucas with his Apple profits, and created the Next OS (a cult system as highly esteemed as was the Amiga, currently available for your PC as OpenStep). The day Pixar went public, his worth was estimated at 70 million. Now he's been hired as a consultant to Apple to fold the Next OS into the Mac OS. Apart from Bill Gates having a (well-documented) case of charisma envy when it comes to Steve Jobs, he takes this threat to his empire quite seriously. If Apple pulls this off, (they may not) the Mac OS will also run Unix, the language used for high-end super computing that SGI and Sun currently dominates. NT is what Gates is using to challenge that market. For the future availability, pricing and ease-of-use for serious graphics tools, the holo-deck from the Star Trek universe looks more attainable every day. With a 500 Mhz powermac available to consumers within the next couple of years, and Intel going into the graphics and sound chip markets, hardware may become fairly generic, capable of booting as a Mac, NT, Next, Linux, Unix, or Memphis machine. Be aware that the Mac OS will change fairly significantly by this time next year, and Memphis (Windows 97?) is presently in beta. There are few programs that will not run equivalently well on either platform. With NT, I now use Softimage, 3D animation software in use at ILM; it would have cost me 50 thousand in hardware and software not two years ago. I can also run Photoshop, Fractal Design Painter and Bryce on the same desktop, something impossible to do a couple of years ago. More CD-ROM titles are available for Windows 95 than for the Mac. The Mac represents a standard of quality that few developers strive to achieve anymore. My partner and I use the Mac for Director, DeBabelizer, Photoshop 3.05, After Effects, Illustrator, Alias Sketch, Pixar's Renderman, QuickTime VR and Pagemill. Be kind to your eyes. If you're going to spend a lot of time doing graphics on your computer, get at least a seventeen-inch monitor, though a twenty-inch is preferable, it can cost twice as much. At the rate things are changing, it can often be a better idea to buy a new computer than to try to upgrade an old one. It'll be obsolete the second you take it out of the box, and you'll feel hopelessly out of date in no time, no matter what you buy. This is a great time to be an artist starting out on computers. Windows 95 and the Mac do things differently enough to be merely annoying, and there are few, but significant, applications exclusive to one platform over the other. There is more entertainment software for the PC than for the Mac, though most of it is junk. Some can't live without a command line, for others it's merely dangerous. 3D has an edge over the Mac on the PC, and I'd rather do anything but VRML on a Mac for web publishing. Electric Image is available for less than two thousand; many Star Wars SE spaceships were flown on the Mac first. 3D Studio Max for the PC is not shabby either. You can e-mail me privately for free advice, with the caveat that you value it at its standard worth. There are standards below which you should not go for both platforms. An artist can never go wrong starting with a superior Mac clone, such as one offered by Power Computing at http://www.powercc.com, and if what it can do now is something you're happy with, what else matters? Who wouldn't want to start with a new IBM Aptiva if you'd never owned a computer before? Both will be great for a year or two, and nobody's crystal ball, not even the Wizard's, sees much beyond that event horizon. Will there be a DVD on every TV, or every PC? In five years, will there be a difference between a TV and a PC? Too much money is riding on both sides of that question to begin to attempt to answer it. Ken Cope Ones & Zeroes SurReal Estate Pinhead@ozcot.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:36:24 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-18-97 Dave L. Hardenbrook wrote: > > BCF: > Someone E_mailed me privately saying they want a full two weeks before > I officially open the _Ozma_ discussion...Anyone wish to second this? NO! On to Ozma asap! SJT ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:47:17 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-19-97 > > Ozma and the BCF: > If someone wishes to wait for two weeks, perhaps needing to read the book, > then that would pose no problem for me. I'll just continue to pontificate > about HACC theory :-). > > --Tyler Jones That does it, OZMA now! > I recall one or two of the Salem "witches" were > pressed to death. > > David Hulan I believe pressing to death was for refusing to plead. It was just a way of encouraging a person to talk. FWIW: James Thurber, in his essay "The Wizard of Chittenango" thought only the first two of the Oz books were any good. He particularly hated Unc Nunkie. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:18:49 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-17-97 It appears my original response to the 4/17 Digest vanished somehow, so here it is again: Jeremy: There are a number of multiple-names among the fairly frequent posters to the Digest. Besides the two Scotts there are two Peters (Hanff and Glassman), three Kens (Cope, Shepherd, and...I can't remember the other one offhand, but I know there is one), two Chris's (Dulabone and Warkala), and probably others who don't come to mind offhand. (I think there's another John besides Kennedy, but I can't come up with a name.) Melody: (To Jellia:) The Great Outside World has the disadvantage of having non-intelligent motor vehicles that can be operated by people who can't operate them competently, whether because of substance abuse, inexperience, or distraction. (A couple of drinks impair driving a heck of a lot less than talking on a cellular phone, or dealing with a couple of pre-schoolers.) Tyler: A lot of Thai restaurants serve Chinese food, possibly because there are a lot of ethnic Chinese in Thailand and that style of food is popular there. There was a wonderful Thai restaurant near where I worked in Garden Grove, CA, where I used to eat lunch a couple of times a week. But though I've tried many others, in both California and Illinois (not to mention one in Massachusetts and one in New York), I've never found another anywhere near as good. I will admit to not being fond of the truly incendiary dishes. Interestingly, the restaurants that have come the closest to the Royal Bangkok in creating the kind of food I like have been Vietnamese, not Thai. Gordon: Glinda doesn't, IIRC, ever question or oppose Ozma's _authority_, but she occasionally questions her judgment. E.g., in GLINDA she wishes Ozma wouldn't get involved in the Skeezer-Flathead dispute, and she has serious misgivings about her taking Dorothy with her. Tyler: The only place I've seen Coca-Cola in glass bottles lately was at Smart and Final markets in the LA area, and that was about three years ago. If you're ever in the LArea, though, it's a place to look. (I think I mentioned this the last time you asked that question.) Nogales is closer for you, though. Scott H.: I haven't seen _Wild at Heart_, but then I don't see many films. I'm probably one of the few people in the US who's never seen _E.T._, for instance. I haven't seen a film in a theater since well before we moved to Illinois (over a year ago now), and the only one I can recall seeing for the first time on video was _Cold Comfort Farm_. (I've watched RETURN TO OZ and THE QUIET MAN as well.) I am not, as you may guess, a film buff. But the quotes you gave from "Sailor Bill," or whoever he was, seemed thoroughly offensive. Maybe in context they weren't, or there was some justification for them, but in isolation... Dave: A week from Monday for the OZMA discussion sounds good to me. Now I'll have to reread it one more time (after I finish my current reading of GRAMPA), but that's no hardship; it's my second or third favorite Baum (after LOST PRINCESS and maybe RINKITINK). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:22:11 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-19-97 Danny: I question whether the Scarecrow did any major amount of new construction or even decoration in the Emerald City. Certainly there's no direct statement that he did, and since he's really a rather boastful individual, I'd have expected him to say something about it somewhere along the line if it were the case. The green glasses, after all, didn't make the city appear any more splendid; they just made it appear green. And if you recall, the green glasses continued in use through the Scarecrow's reign; it was apparently Jinjur who ended the custom, and it was never revived. I don't think the Scarecrow actually ruled for very long. It's true he tells the Wizard in DOTWIZ that he ruled "quite awhile", but it's reasonable that a being who never eats or sleeps might have a rather distorted time sense. I personally doubt that the Scarecrow's reign lasted more than a year. If the incompetence he shows in LAND is typical, he would only last as long as it took someone else to get the idea that ruling Oz might be fun, and I don't think that even in Oz (at least in pre-Ozma days, when there was a money economy along with disease and probably aging and death) that would take very long. Ken H.: It's true that Death (I believe usually interpreted as pestilence, since all four of the horsemen represent some kind of death) rides a pale horse, but I think "pale" probably means "gray" rather than white, since a different one of the Four Horsemen specifically rides a white horse. Like a lot of Revelation, the identity of the four horsemen isn't altogether clear. The third horseman, on the black horse, clearly represents famine; the first one, on the white horse with a crown and a bow, is spoken of in terms of conquest, while the second, on the red horse with a sword, is spoken of in terms of war. These two seem to be pretty much the same thing. And the fourth one, as I said, is called Death, but that's true of all four. Tyler: I don't think Glinda was serious in suggesting that Ozma simply ignore the imminent Flathead-Skeezer war, but I think she questioned Ozma's wisdom in trying to do it alone, and even more in her taking Dorothy with her. (And, of course, she proved to be quite correct. Ozma couldn't prevent the "war", and got herself stuck in a situation that required the efforts of a large number of her friends to get her out of it. And if Coo-ee-oh had been successful in enchanting the Su-Dic, Ozma and Dorothy might have been in even worse trouble.) But GLINDA isn't supposed to be the BCF for quite a while yet. :-) Dick: I haven't seen the hexes since changing servers, either, even when others have mentioned them. (There are some in Melody's quote from Jeremy, but I infer that's because they came to Melody that way on Compuserve and they existed in her message she sent Dave.) Joyce: Dorothy's diction was terrible in the four books from OZMA through EMERALD CITY, but it wasn't bad after that, and neither Trot nor Betsy ever really exhibited poor diction as a routine thing, though there were occasional slips. Uncle Henry and Aunt Em spoke a very rural dialect in EC (which is the only book where they speak much), and Cap'n Bill always used a sort of nautical dialect, but they're the only adult Baum characters I can think of who didn't speak fairly standard English. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:33:34 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission _Land_ Observation: Tip and Mombi live in a village. If one looks at the three exterior scenes in the first two chapters of _Land_, each picture shows five of the hemispherical Ozian houses. The two pictures in the second chapter have very similar points of view. In "Tip Stood the Figure Up and Admired It.," there are three houses on the left side of the road and two on the right. But in "Old Mombi Danced Around Him" there are (largely obscured) two houses on the left side and three on the right. This would imply at least six houses, three on each side of the road -- a little village by themselves alone. This conclusion is also supported in the text, where it is stated that "Mombi's curious magic often frightened her neighbors, and they treated her shyly, yet respectfully"... So she and Tip did indeed have neighbors. However, it is stated in the first chapter that Tip has no playmates. Why should that be if he lives in a village? The village children may shy away from Mombi, but I doubt that this would prevent the rambunctious Tip from finding playmates, if there were any children there to find. I think that there were no other children and that this is due to the anti-aging spell taking effect. A necessary effect of such a spell would be to greatly slow or zero the birth rate. Otherwise, a population explosion would ruin the land the magic that was supposed to preserve. Foreign soda: In the 4/18 Digest, Bear cautions against buying locally produced soft drinks in third-world countries because of the disease danger. This is especially true when dealing with street vendors in such places. Street vendors sometimes increase their meager profits by opening up the drinks and pouring some from each full bottle into one or more empty bottles and filling up the space with _their_ local water. In this fashion they can turn six bottles of soda into seven or eight, all of which can then be sold on the street. Unfortunately, even if the soda was clean before, it most probably is contaminated now. BOCF: I vote to advance to _Ozma_. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 04:48:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Forward to Ozzy Digest To: Dave Hardenbrook I just got this request, and I was unable to help. I hope some Digesters can. Since this person is not a subscriber, you will have to respond directly to Tracy's e-mail address. --Eric Gjovaag ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:52:12 -0400 (EDT) From: CUTK@aol.com To: tiktok@eskimo.com Subject: Looking for some sort of clip art photo of Dorothy I've been enjoying your page and wonder if maybe you can help me... I'm looking for some sort of clip art/cartoon type picture of Dorothy. I've been searching thru various web pages and haven't come up with anything? Any suggestions? Thanks again, Tracy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:51:22 -0500 (CDT) From: glassman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 04-16-97 To: DaveH47@delphi.com My apologies for lumping together my replies to several days worth of digests, but I've been very bust at work. Scott: >Peter, As far as your editing of Baum's books goes, that's fine, except >that you make the false claim that the edition is a facsimile of the first >edition, which you have rendered a lie, as it seems there is an intent to >deceive. To be quite honest, I am rather tired of the cynical attitude of many of the members of this digest. Despite numerous postings that the use of the term "facsimile" was a mistake that went through without the approval of either myself or the editor-in-chief at Morrow, we continue to be accused of deceit, deception, lies, etc. Given the optomistic nature of the Oz books and the assumption in them that most people are good and strive to do their best, I find this constant cynical assumption that we are trying to deceive and cheat quite depressing. Patrick Scheible's comments about a publisher's "right" to edit a book they publish is - obviously - his opinion and when he becomes a publisher I have no doubt he will follow it. However, after 21 years in the publishing industry, I have never met a publishing house who shares his opinion. Additionally, he says that Reilly & Britton edited the Oz books before publishing them. Though this is true, there have been several times where we have made small corrections to the books, but no one has ever noticed or complained. If we have the right to edit for punctuation, spelling, etc. then we have the right to edit for content as well. Patrick - or anyone else for that matter - has the right not to buy our books, which I certainly respect. I just wish that he would respect our rights to publish what we feel is appro- priate. Also, as to editing Baum, it is interesting that no one has brought up the fact that Baum quickly agreed to drop the "Garden of Meats" (I'm not sure this is the exact title) chapter from "Patchwork Girl" when Reilly & Lee suggested it might offend some children. Does anyone out there honestly think that such a gentle soul as L. Frank Baum would want to see his books printed with words or terms that might hurt young children? If you do, then I feel that you have failed to appreciate both the man and the spirit of the books he wrote. Chris Dulabone states: "While I am absolutely AGAINST the censorship of Patchwork Girl (come on, the book is from 1913. It has to be read from that perspective)." I STRONLY disagree with this statement. Try telling this to a nine-year-old African-American child whose feelings have been hurt by a 1913 text. We DO NOT publish our books for adult Oz fans - we publish them for children! I am pleased that many adult Oz fans enjoy them and support our efforts, but - as I have said repeatedly - I would rather offend legions of adult fans than hurt the feelings of one innocent child. As adults you should be able to understand this, they as children should not be required to. Considering how hard everyone associated with our reissues of the Oz books works to produce them, I could become discouraged by these attacks. However, since we now have nearly one-third of a million Oz books back in print and have only had a handfull of poeple assume such negative things about us, I continue to feel that the vast majority of the book buying public applauds what we are doing - and to them I am truly grateful. Joel Harris: >Does BoW print actual facsimile editions or are these books edited or >changed in any way? Joel, we publish reissues of the Oz books. In many cases, these are exact reproductions of the originals, though sometimes we make corrections and in the case of "The Patchwork Girl of Oz" we removed a few words (less than a dozen, I believe) and one illustration which would be highly offensive to African-Americans. We have also reissued some of Baum's other books with new illustrations. If you would like to receive a catalog, you may call (800) 207-6968 between the hours of 9am and 6pm (east coast time) or fax us at (212) 989-1203. My thanks to David Hulan, Mike Denio, Robin Olderman and all the others who have posted their support or at least the feeling that this subject has already been well covered. I wholeheartedly agree and apologize for getting so hot under the collar about this. But republishing the Oz books has been a labor of love and being repeatedly attacked like this is very distressing. - Peter Glassman Books of Wonder ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:17:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Forward for Ozzy Digest To: Dave Hardenbrook Here's another question I can't answer. Anybody know anything? Please e-mail any answers directly to Patricia. --Eric Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 19:19:30 -0500 From: Patricia Bruton To: tiktok@eskimo.com Subject: Glindas dress Do you know what became of Glindas' dress. My three year old grand-daughter and I both love it. Is it displayed somewhere?-- ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:54:06 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Ozmopolitan Reservations This makes three posts from me in one day, but I thought I should let people on the Digest, at least, know that there are a couple of errors in the Ozmopolitan flyer that could cause problems in trying to make reservations for that conference. If any of you are in touch with other Oz fans who are planning to go to Ozmopolitan, please pass this information on to them as well. First, my ZIP code is 60540, not 65040. The latter is Henley, Missouri, and so far all the reservations I have received have arrived after going to Henley first. (Apparently the Postal Service doesn't look at the name or state, just the ZIP code, in routing their mail.) Second, if you need to get in touch with me by phone (which might be a good idea if you sent in your reservation more than ten days ago and your name isn't listed below), the phone number given is my old California number, which has now apparently been assigned to a non-English-speaking family. My actual phone number is (630) 355-8529, and the best times to reach me (as opposed to my answering machine) are 8:30-11:00 AM and 3:00-6:00 PM Central time, though 7:00-7:30 PM and 9:00-10:00 PM are generally OK if you can't conveniently call during the day (or don't want to pay daytime phone rates). Of course, those of you on the Digest can always E-mail me as well. I've received reservations from the following people through 4/19: Margaret Berg, Helenann & Ron Brown, Jay Delkin, Irene Fisher, Peter Hanff, Warren & Edith Hollister, Patrick Maund, Michelle Naylor, Michael Riley, and John van Camp. (And myself, of course.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:40:57 -0400 (EDT) From: BOZZYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Munchkin Convention To: DaveH47@delphi.com As Registar (Bozzybear a/k/a Marc deCourval) of the Munchkin Convention in the wonderful land of OZ .... please be advised that the room deposit for one night is $77.76 not $74.52 as stated in the registration "fill-out" form. Thanks .... hope to see many Ozpiles there !!! OZways ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 09:39:42 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things After considering the matter, I have decided to stand by my previous decision to start the _Ozma_ discussion a week from today (Monday), which as it is makes everyone who is anxious to start _Ozma_ now wait a week, but at least it gives other *some* time to read _Ozma_, or at least a good amount of it. I apologize to those who want a full two weeks delay, but I really feel that would be too long a wait to impose on the majority of people want to begin as soon as possible... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 22, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:03:38 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-19-97 David G. Hulan wrote: >You can't get in trouble for sending someone a text file of copyrighted >material as long as you don't charge for it. Any more than you can for >loaning someone a book. If you have a text file of LAUGHING DRAGON I'd >appreciate your E-mailing it to me. As a matter of law, this is absolutely false. A copyright is just what the word says: the unique legal right (for a certain term of years) to make and/or authorize any and all copies. Now, in practice, the value of the copyright of "Laughing Dragon" is so close to zero that it is quite unlikely that anyone would really get in trouble even if he sold a dozen full-blown facsimiles. But that is only my uninformed guess as to how much the copyright owner is willing to get into all the hassles of legal action. (There is at least one person here who knows much better than I do how good a guess that is.) >I recall one or two of the Salem "witches" were pressed to death. One, but that wasn't punishment; it was torture to extract a confession, torture which failed in its purpose, which is why he eventually died. >I thought I remembered reading about witch-burnings in Germany ... >in the 16th century, but I don't have any reference for it and it was >long enough ago that I'll defer. Perhaps.... I am certain only of England (and the colonies). But I would want to see clear documentation, because the false modern impression of burning as the usual punishment for witches is so ingrained. >Anyhow, the difference between a witch and a heretic isn't all that >sharply defined. It is (or was) in law. It's not even the same jurisdiction. Witchcraft is a secular crime, dealt with in secular courts; heresy is dealt with in ecclesiastical courts, although the death penalty was conveniently handed over to the secular authorities. (Even if one believes the undocumented claims of modern practitioners of Wicca, there is absolutely _no_ question that the law addressed itself to those -- whether there were any such in actual fact or not -- who consciously and deliberately entered the service of the Christian Satan. _If_ -- and it's a big, big "if" -- innocent practitioners of some form of neo-paganism were swept up as "witches," it is nevertheless the fact that the authorities of the time believed that what they were going after was something entirely different.) To oversimplify, heresy is the crime of saying "The Church teaches that such-and-such is Christian doctrine, but the Church is wrong; true Christian doctrine is so-and-so," whereas witchcraft is the crime of saying "What the Church says is irrelevant; it's better to worship Satan than God anyway." Paganism (at least among unbaptized persons) is neither of these, and not a crime at all; a pagan, by definition, cannot be a heretic, and is almost never a witch (and, if a witch, is a witch in pagan, not Christian, terms). // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:43:59 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-21-97 Jeremy Steadman wrote: >Out of curiosity, what is Windows NT? It's about the same thing as OS/2, but deliberately made incompatible so as to stab in the back IBM and everyone else who thought Bill "Morden" Gates could be trusted to keep his word in the 1987-1991 era. In the absolute, it's a decentish operating system (which Windows classic and Windows '95 are not), but to me it will always be the operating system that, when word first leaked out about it, Microsoft said (for the record) didn't exist, because they were 1000% behind OS/2. That was about one month before they announced it. My next computer will run OS/2, but my plan at the present is to go with Silicon Graphics and IRIX on the computer after that; their entry-level system is already down to about $5,000. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:29:43 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-17-97 Tyler, I got a traditional glass bottle of coke at Stone Mountain in Georgia. It said classic on it, so it was recent, but I still saved the bottle, since it's not something I encounter very often, though I have seen them subsequently. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:48:47 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-21-97 Atticus: I'll cheerfully wait however long it takes for you to get the electronic text version of LAUGHING DRAGON. I don't actually know what dealers are charging for it; I've never seen a copy for sale. Some discussions I've had have implied that it's going for three figures, though. I could be wrong about that. Robin: You can see a list of the people whose money I've received so far near the end of the last Digest. I'm assuming that there are quite a few more registrations making their way here via Henley; I hope they get here before we have to release rooms. Jeremy: As I'm sure he'll tell you himself, Tyler was being ironic when he referred to "such trivial things as stopping wars." I understood what you meant about defying the "man on a white horse". My point was that the MoaWH, at the point where he's recognized as such, has already gathered the reins of power (along with the reins of the white horse). In most of the cases I cited, the previous government either caved in without a fight (Hitler, Mussolini) or was beaten so quickly that it would hardly be called a civil war (Castro). However, the Loyalists in Spain were able to cobble up enough of an army that they were able to "defy the man on a white horse", and in consequence there was a long and bloody civil war. This doesn't mean that defying the man on a white horse isn't the right thing to do, but it doesn't lead to maintaining order - it's just that maintaining order isn't a good thing in many cases. Windows NT is Microsoft's high-end OS for Intel machines. I don't know much more about it than that, but my wife works with it a lot and says that it's much better than Win 95. Somebody like Tyler or Dave could probably tell you more if you want to know. And "PG" is PATCHWORK GIRL. Oh, sure, I could list all the files on my PC, but since PC files all have names like "BR397CD.EXE", it probably wouldn't tell me if I have ATM or Acrobat installed. Ken C.: I don't really do graphics on my Mac - that is, I use other people's clip art, but I'm not an artist, don't aspire to be one, and therefore don't do anything that requires the massive RAM and hard drive capacity that people that do serious graphics need. And while I wouldn't mind having a monitor that would show me a full page at a time, I don't feel a driving need for one either. I do want something faster than my Power Mac 6100/60, though, and am probably going to buy one of the Motorola Mac clones within the next few months. So I appreciated your discussion. Steve: I'm aware that Thurber only liked the first two Oz books, but I can't think why Unc Nunkie would have offended him so much. I don't think he had twenty words in the whole series up to OJO. And he wasn't onstage in animate form for more than about four chapters. Earl: It's true that the anti-aging spell would have to have the corollary of a low-to-zero birth rate, but that shouldn't affect the presence of children in a village, assuming that Mombi and Tip lived in a village. (I don't think you can put any weight on the fact that Neill shows houses in some of the illustrations; Neill was notorious for contradicting the text. And "neighbors", in a rural context, could easily refer to people living a mile or more away. Even if they had children they, along with Tip, were probably busy enough with farm chores that they didn't have time to go play with someone living that far away.) The anti-aging spell didn't, according to Baum, just work on adults - it stopped children from becoming adults. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:55:54 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-21-97 > > Steve: > When I said "the exuding Ozziness of your header did it", I meant > that you said in your post that you did not want the content thereof > to be put in the Digest for all to read, yet it ended up there > anyway; my point was that you included the word `Oz' in your header, > and that was why. Chances are I misinterpreted everything > completely, as usual. > > Jeremy Steadman Thank you, the opaque is now clear. All I lacked was context. Peter Glassman: Yes, we did thoroughly cover the PATCHWORK GIRL matter last year. However, you must realize that there are always new members on the Digest that do not know what has been said. As you know I thoroughly approve the Morrow/BoW reprints in general. The whole question of making an old book acceptable for modern young people is one that will *never* be resolved to everyones satisfaction. I only ask that when you feel it necessary to emend Baum's writings in the future that you acknowledge it has been done. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:27:35 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-18-97 Atticus, All I know about _The Orange Knight of Oz_ was in the special edition. I have not read it. Nathan, For all its Oz connection, I'm surprised for Oz fans have not seen _Wild at Heart_. I must warn that it does have some graphic sex, graphic violence, and some topless scenes which many will find quite offensive. (I'm speaking of Mr. Reindeer's resident valets.) My dictionary from 1953 does not list "gay," "fag," or "faggot," as having any homosexual connotation, but it does for "queer,"and "fairy." I hope the judges in the contesty will not be offended by a character taking offense at being called a fairy, since he is only one by the old definition, and is aware of the new one. I don't mention anything regarding the meaning. It develops the character, and only the adults reading it are likely to get it. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:36:16 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Oz Matters Atticus: I believe BoW is selling an edition of _Laughing Dragon_ for considerably less than $100. Jeremy: I think Tyler was being slightly sarcastic when he called stopping a war a trivial thing. I'm pretty sure that "PG" stands for _Patchwork Girl_ (not the Oz book for which parental guidance is suggested). David: In Fred Otto's _Lost Emeralds_, it is suggested that the Wizard started the custom of wearing green glasses after he gave the emeralds that decorated the city to the WWW, and replaced them with glass. The Scarecrow's reign was probably short, but we know from _Forbidden Fountain_ that he ruled through at least one Clover Festival. On _Glinda_: Yes, I know this isn't the BCF, but it won't be for a while, and I'd like to mention this now. In this book, after it is deduced that the syllables of Coo-ee-oh's name are the magic words, the word "coo" is tried, and this releases the submarines. Someone (possibly Glinda, but I forget exactly, and don't own a copy of this book) then decides that "ee" probably lets out the bridge. How was this deduced? It turns out to be correct, but the thinking of Glinda (or whoever it was) seemed fallacious, since it was based on the assumption that Coo-ee-oh thought in the same arbitrary order that this other character did. Any thoughts on this? On Glinda's dress: This isn't an answer to the post asking where this dress is. I am aware that the person who asked that question is not a subscriber. The question just led me to think how the Glinda we all know and love would probably never wear a dress as huge and silly-looking as the one that Billie Burke did. I guess the costume designers wanted to make her look like Locasta, rather than Glinda, but even Locasta probably wouldn't wear such a silly dress. Oh, well. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:45:04 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-21-97 David, _The Quiet Man_ is in _E.T._, pr did I mention that already. Earl, my assumption as to the village in _Land_ was that Tip and Mombi live on the outskirts of town, and no one goes anywhere near them. Perhaps no one in the village has kids Tip's age, or they shun him, with good reason, he does live with a witch. Peter, I always saw the Tottenhots as Australian Aborigines, but apparently few others see them this way. I wonder if anyone knows who played them in the movie. It just says "a cast of eighty others." Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 23:54:53 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-21-97 Re: Bob Spark's "In reference to the Coca Cola bottles at Von's, I believe that if you were to examine them closely you would find that they were plastic. Very clever imitation, but plastic.... No, the bottles I've seen (and purchased) were glass--just like the small ones they had years ago. I've seen the plastic bottles you're referring too. Re: Peter Glassman's comments I think I've bought about everything BOW has put out. If someone would have told me even as little as 10 years ago that the Oz books would be available again in color I would have told them they were crazy. Sometimes we don't realize how easy we've got it. We are truly in the midst of an Oz publishing Renaissance. By the way, did anyone out there purchase the Easton Press editions of _Wizard_ thru _Emerald City_? I've had mine for 4-5 years and while they're beautiful I'd like to issue just one warning--the Easton Press people will be your pen pals for life! I seem to get something in the mail from them every 2-3 weeks! Sincerely, Scott (not to be confused with other Scotts) Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:41:21 -0500 (EST) From: JSTEADMAN@loki.berry.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-21-97 Ken: Fascinating discussion of the latest in computers! (I wish I could understand half of it.) But when will we be able to tune in to Ozma's website? (And don't tell me she doesn't have one--with the whole world going online, Oz can't possibly hide for long.) But which is the best computer of them all? I have a friend's word that Macs had everything first--"Windows" and all--and even now that I got a Windows system for my HS graduation, there's no reason I can't look to the future. David: Thanks for the info (re duplicate names). I'll never remember them all--maybe I should respond to first & last names as a rule . . . We'll see. Short post today--for a long-winded person such as me, that's rather odd... --Jeremy Steadman, Winding Up the Message ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:53:25 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls David and Steve - Would you mind dropping the execution and torture discussions. This is the Oz Digest. :( Oh, and Steve, did it occur to you that there may be some on the Digest who are not as ready as you to go on to the next book? This whole issue could be solved by setting a start reading and start discussing date that is the same each month. Unfortunately, this is something that Dave refuses to do. David - Let's see, you want to ban drinking, cell phones and kids from cars! :) :) As usual Peter Glassman provides us with a thoughtful and reasonable explanation for things that have been discussed many times. I'm just sorry that he has had to do this again. Thank you Peter for continuing to bring us Oz books. Try not to loose patience with NEWBY's. By the way, the new "Books of Wonder News" is out. Arrived today. Hmmm - Now we have a "Bear" and a "Bozzybear." Does that name originate from Boz or Oz? And what is an "Ozpile?" Some strange rite that takes place at conventions? :) Thanks Dave, I'm sure another week will do it for most if not all of us. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 00:57:39 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Jeremy: It is true that referring to Ozroar as a conqueror may be un-Ozzy, but I would not dismiss the idea that quickly. Oz was different in its early days, and it was not always the nearly-perfect land of love which we know today. For the record, though, I doubt that this actually happened. Jeremy again: It is very true that war, along with its starting and stopping, are indeed very serious matters (whether the war is big or small). I was attempting to illustrate the importance of the issue by stating it in an offhand way. I am not sure what the correct term for this is. It may be facetious or sarcastic. I am sure that one of the learned people on the digest can tell you. Jeremy still again: Windows NT stands for Windows Network, Microsofts operating system for local networks. A Server acts as the main hub and other computers (called workstations) are linked through it. It is very robust (although I've some problems with it) and many people prefer it to Windows 95. When you are in DOS, you can go to the root directory (probably the C prompt) and type the following: dir /s >C:\files.txt This will create a file called files.txt containing the name of every file on your hard drive. Depending on how much you have, this file could grow to quite a large size. This is not very efficient. You could perhaps use the TREE command or, if you are really hard-core, format your drive and rebuild it all from scratch. I've done that myself when I've had some time to spare. Be careful, though. You could lose a lot of information that is not backed up. Steve: Robert Pattrick referred to James Thurber as the "ultra conservative" scholar who only accepted the first two Oz books. This was in his essay "Oz versus authors". I will go so far as to say that the Oz books changed a great deal in style and form after the second, sometimes for the worse, in many ways for the better. In the long run, I am glad that Baum did not stop there. David, Melody and Jellia: That's one of many reasons that I refuse to own a cell phone or a pager. David: The HACC has a three year gap between _Wizard_ and _Land_. That's probably about the maximum range, since I don't believe he ruled very long, either. A horse is a horse, of course, of course: Don't people who are horse-experts (and I am not one, although I have ridden on occasion), say that there are no white horses: IIRC, this subject came up once before on the digest, and you were the one who suggested that a better course of action may have been for Ozma to send the Wizard to the Skeezers and Flatheads and open a dialog with them. Earl: Others have spoken of the importance of a very low birth rate being necessary for Oz, once the age-slowing took effect. It was never mentioned in the FF, although it was discussed in some detail in the non-FF _Barnstormer_. Perhaps the slow aging of children helps to slow the birth rate as well. Books of Wonder: Like the Loch Ness monster, the censorship/editing issue has surfaced again. While there are those of us who disagree with the decision to change the wording of that small part of the story (and I am one of them), please remember that it was done for the sole purpose of bringing the love of Oz to as many people as possible, which is the same reason why everyone of us is here participating in the digest. Overall, the change was an extremely minor one, and the basic plot and storyline were completely unchanged. For all intents and purposes, it is the same story that it has always been. As someone who himself has suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune on the digest, it now pains me to see someone else being assigned motivations and intentions that never existed. It is one thing to disagree with a decision, but to denounce the operation for things that are not true is quite another. At the end of the day, a minor change was made to a small part in the book for the expressed purpose of avoiding anger and hurt feelings and to broaden the love of Oz. Even though it was not the decision I would have made, I choose to support it, because the results were positive: Oz books are being read, and in a very real sense, the story did not change at all. Thank you, Peter Glassman and all the people at BOW, EC Press and Morrow for bringing Oz to a new generation and to others all over again. BTW, whatever happened to your publication of _The Laughing Dragon of Oz_? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:34:17 -0400 (EDT) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-21-97 Peter Glassman: Thank you for your time ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 23, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:24:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Anich Subject: Ozzy Musical Play in NYC Is anybody going to see the _Wizard of Oz_ Musical Play in New York City in May, at the Madison Garden Theatre? I have my tickets :-) --steve ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:11:26 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-22-97 Somehow I suspect that John Kennedy is not a member of the Bill Gates Fan Club. > > Peter, I always saw the Tottenhots as Australian Aborigines, but > apparently few others see them this way. I wonder if anyone knows who > played them in the movie. It just says "a cast of eighty others." > > Scott > One of them was a bit part actor who later became very famous, Harold Lloyd. Another was Hal Roach. I have no idea who the rest of them were but they were probably all whites wearing blackface. > > Oh, and Steve, did it occur to you that there may be some on the Digest who > are not as ready as you to go on to the next book? > Regards, Bear (:<) > Of course it occurred to me. I am just giving my opinion, because OZMA is my favorite Oz book. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:48:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-22-97 Scott O.: I purchased an Easton edition of OZMA. It's beautiful. What was the original issue price? I bought it from an individual, not Easton. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:58:52 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-22-97 David: Thanks for all the clarifications. (Oh, and PATCHWORK GIRL is rated PG, too. Just had to throw that in. [Just as quickly to be thrown out.]) A friend of mine here at college was trying to demystify the computer world to me yesterday, but didn't succeed. Now I followed most of that, but what's an Intel? (Besides the first two syllables of a word that means smart.) UnIntelligible names is one problem with Dos, in my opinion. BASIC came pretty close to solving that problem, but that's basically outdated now... Tyler: Many apologies for assuming the worst (that stopping a war to you is a trivial thing). Bear: You say, "David and Steve - Would you mind dropping the execution and torture discussions. This is the Oz Digest. :(" I guess you'd rather we not discuss the execution of the torturous passage scene in the 1939 movie. (Sorry.) (Has anyone noticed that I have a sort of addiction to making puns? Someone pointed that out to me yesterday . . .) Until next time, Jeremy Steadman P.S. I told someone yesterday that I have a serious side to me, and he said, "Jeremy--serious? I refuse to believe that." or something to that effect. It's worse than I thought! ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:13:00 +0100 From: "L. Beltz/M. Krueger" Subject: Ozzy Digest Re: Oz Flags I just finished skimming through several days worth of Digests and the subject of Oz flags kept coming up. For decorations at last year's Winkie Conference Karyl Carlson made quite a few Oz flags and banners, which she then sold. They seemed to be well received and I'm sure that she would gladly make flags of any size for a reasonable price. She's not online, but I'll gladly provide her address to any interested parties. Re: MGM Glinda's Dress Sure we see it as big and ridiculous now; but, how many of us loved that pink confection and the bubble it arrived in when we were children? - I know that I did. Speaking of the MGM movie - We just got back from a trip to Portland to see the Smithsonian's 150th Anniversary Traveling Exhibit, which, of course includes the ruby slippers. They're exhibited at the end outside of the main exihibition area. As we left the main exhibit the security person was giving these directions: "You may not re-enter after leaving. Restrooms to the left, ruby slippers to the right." Seems that they'd had a lot disgruntled people leaving the galleries thinking that they'd either missed the ruby slippers or that they (the slippers) weren't there after all. Lynn Beltz ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:46:01 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-22-97 John K.: You're right about the copyright issue, of course. I was thinking about a different aspect of copyright law (that distributing copies of something you write yourself in limited quantities, not for pay, doesn't lose your copyright protection even if you don't state it's copyright) and somewhere between my synapses and my fingers I got muddled. That being said about the legal aspect, it's still true that it's inconceivable to me that Atticus could get in trouble for E-mailing a copy of the text to me, unless one of us talked about it openly; how would anyone know? Anyhow, as far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant at this point, because someone whom I won't identify has sent me a copy of the text. I guess that technically the guy who was pressed to death wasn't being punished, but I doubt if he perceived it that way. Atticus: See above comment; don't bother sending me a copy of LAUGHING DRAGON. Scott H.: Your 1953 dictionary may not list "gay", "fag", or "faggot" for "homosexual", but I can guarantee you that they were all in use by then. As were quite a few other terms that I won't go into here. No, I don't think you mentioned that _The Quiet Man_ was in _E.T._, and I was unaware of it. In what way - does someone in the latter watch part of the former on TV or something? The Tottenhots were, I'm sure, intended to be a parody of the Hottentots, who were a South African race - not, technically speaking, Negroes - that got squeezed between the Dutch coming in from the south and the true Negroes coming in from the north back in the 17th century, and largely died out. (I think there are still some around, identifiable as such - IIRC during the days of apartheid they were classified as "colored" and not "black" - but they're even more minor in the scheme of things than the "Bushmen", who are yet another race in that area, quite distinct from Hottentots, Negroes, whites, and Asians.) However, neither Neill's illustrations nor Baum's descriptions resembled the real Hottentots. The illustrations reminded me of New Guineans more than any kind of Africans, actually, but I doubt that an African-American child would think that. Nathan: BoW was going to offer LAUGHING DRAGON a couple or three years ago - I ordered a copy of it - but for some reason it fell through. (Unless they've revived it again in their latest catalog, which I haven't seen yet.) A lot depends on how much you rely on non-FF books for Oz history. If you accept all of them then the Scarecrow's reign probably has to be at least two or three years to pack in the events of the various books that are set in that interval. If you accept none of them then it need not be more than a few months. Anyhow, one Clover Festival doesn't mean much; even if they only come every ten years, it could have been due a few weeks after the Wizard left. It's Ozma who says that "If 'Coo' sends out the boats, 'ee' probably works the bridge." She doesn't explain her reasoning, but I think it makes good sense. Raising and lowering the island is obviously the most important thing that part of her magic does. That being the case, it's most likely that it's either the first or last syllable of her name, depending on whether she went with ascending or descending order of importance. I dunno, I think a lot of the dresses Neill shows Glinda in are pretty silly, at least by our modern standards. Including, in particular, the one on the cover of GLINDA. Looks pretty much like a white muu-muu. (Maybe he got in trouble with that cleavage in LAND; without looking for it specifically, I can't recall another instance where Glinda was wearing anything that wasn't so loose that you can tell nothing about her shape.) Scott O.: It's true that we're in the midst of an Oz publishing renaissance, but although I don't want to take anything away from BEOO, the IWOC, Dover, or any other publisher, I think one has to recognize that the most important factor in it is the work done by Books of Wonder. And I'd say that even if they hadn't published my book. :-) The other publishers have done an excellent job of making new and old Oz books available again to people who have been Oz fans all along, but BoW is by far the most important one in getting those books into the hands of a new generation of readers. Jeremy: >But which is the best computer of them all? It depends on what you want to do with a computer; for the highest-tech applications, especially if you're writing your own software, something Unix-based is probably the most powerful - but you have to figure on spending an inordinate amount of time learning how to use it, because as one friend of mine said, Unix was written by Martians for Martians; nothing in it is intuitive. If you want ease of use, ease of setup, and speed, the Mac is currently out front by a pretty good margin. What it doesn't have (yet) that OS/2 and Windows NT have (or so I've been told) is "true multi-tasking". Since I've never had an occasion, in 30 years of using computers, where I wanted "true multi-tasking", this doesn't worry me, but I suppose that there are some types of users for whom it's important or it wouldn't be considered a Feature. (Of course, according to my wife "feature" is usually computerese for "programmer screw-up that isn't exactly a bug", but I don't think multi-tasking falls into that category.) Also, there are some applications that aren't available for the Mac, depending on what your own requirements are. Bear: >David and Steve - Would you mind dropping the execution and torture >discussions. This is the Oz Digest. :( Well, we were talking about witches; isn't that Ozzy? Besides, it was John K. that brought the subject up. >David - Let's see, you want to ban drinking, cell phones and kids from >cars! :) :) Not necessarily; I just think that if one is banned, the others should be as well. :-) Tyler: I agree that the Oz books changed significantly after the first two (and, imho, even more significantly after the first six), but in both cases I think the change was almost entirely for the better. About the only negative I can cite is the lapse in diction by the juvenile characters in the later books, and as I said recently, that's mostly true for Dorothy in the OZMA- EMERALD CITY group. (DOTWIZ and ROAD, and to a lesser extent EMERALD CITY, are weak books in terms of plot, but their Oz is the same Oz as in the later books that I consider Baum's best.) >David, Melody and Jellia: >That's one of many reasons that I refuse to own a cell phone or a pager. This is a comment that needs some context, I think. I refuse to own a cell phone or pager myself, but I'm not sure what I said that evoked that comment from you. I suppose I could look up the old Digest, but it's more fun to ask you to clarify. :-) I think it was in my essay on the quality of Ozma's rule where I said that she should have sent the Wizard to open a dialog with the Flatheads and Skeezers. Her analysis of the situation at the beginning of GLINDA just didn't consider all the possible courses of action. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:29:59 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Nathan/Tyler - Are you referring to Baum's "The Purple Dragon" rather than the "Laughing Dragon?" The latter is a Whitman Big-Little Book and I doubt BOW would be reproducing it. Come to think of it, most BLB's were made by using comic strip panels as the figures on the facing pages. Does anyone know if LD ever appeared as a comic strip? If you are interested in BLB's Larry Jacobs did a beautiful book in 1996 which shows photos of all of them, including LD, and a price range. For LD the listed range is $55-$225, obviously controlled by the condition. My copy may be in the middle of this range but I only paid $10 for it. If you are interested in Jacob's book I can give you information on it and also on Larry Lowry's Big Little Book Club which has a regular newsletter. It is really good and quite reasonable. Well now I am into this, quoting from "The Oz Scrapbook," p. 73: "In 1935 Reilly & Lee was faced with a surprising problem: the first direct challenge to its exclusive right to publish new Oz books. The challenge came from a man with a justifiable belief in his own rights in the matter: L. Frank Baum's eldest son, Frank Joslyn Baum, who had written the script for the 1925 Wizard of Oz movie, had sold the rights for the forthcoming MGM movie, and had manufactured Oz dolls in 1924. F. J. Bauman had hoped to continue the Oz series after his father's death, but Reilly & Lee reached its agreement with Mrs. Baum and Miss Thompson. Sometime in the 1920's F. J. Baum wrote an Oz book which Reilly & Lee refused to consider, and in 1932 it was advertised as a non-Oz book by the publisher David Graham Fischer of Hollywood under the title Rosine and the Laughing Dragon. It never appeared as such, but in January 1935 the Whitman Publishing Company of Racine, Wisconsin, published a portion of the manuscript under the title The Laughing Dragon of Oz by "Frank Baum." The Laughing Dragon was one of Whitman's many "Big Little Books," each of which had around 400 pages but was only four and a half inches tall. It was profusely illustrated by Milt Youngren, somewhat in the style of George Herriman's Krazy Kat comic. It sold for ten cents. The Laughing Dragon tells the story of Rosine, and American girl, her monkey Jim and Cap'n Bob, a lighthouse keeper, as they adventure in Oz seeking to rescue Princess Cozytoes. No Oz characters from any other book appear in The Laughing Dragon of Oz. F. J. Baum and Whitman planned to bring out a sequel entitled The Enchanted Princess of Oz, but while that work was in proof, Reilly & Lee brought suit. The controversy was settled when Whitman agreed to pay court costs and not to publish The Enchanted Princess." Now the reason LD is relatively expensive is manifold. There is demand for it by Ozzies, as well as BLB completists, the press run was probably rather small, it is not that great so was probably more likely to be pitched and it is old, in fact as old as I am, 61 years. After that long things get a little worn. Scott (not to be confused with other Scotts) Olsen - If you really want a lot of mail order your wife something from Victoria's Secret. Tyler - Regarding Windows - Then on the other hand you could dump your piece of IBM junk and buy a real computer that is usable, e.g. a MAC. Don't believe what you hear, they will be around forever. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:09:37 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz David: Aha! That's the wor I was looking for. Ironic. I guess that word has two different meanings, one of which is close to (but not quite) sarcasm. Nathan: I believe it was Dorothy who guessed the order of the magic words in regards to the three actions of Skeezer Island. There is nothing in the text to explain how Dorothy arrived at the proper chain. It's just another "one of those things". Jeremy: The "best computer" out there may not exist. It depends so much on what you want it for. I use the PC for the simple reason of compatibility. 85% of the world's computers are PC and I must ride the zeitgeist. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:44:36 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Just getting back into the swing of things due to travel plus AOL blackouts. Many old digests to catch up on! IWOC conventions: For what its worth, I plan to again attend all three of the major conventions, but will probably be able to be at Munchkins for only one day. Oz Flags: The Oz flags sold at past conventions were made by Jerry Mendel, a New Jersey Munchkin. He also made metal OZ cookie cutters which were very popular with attendees. Because of family health problems, it is unclear whether he will make flags this year, or whether he will even be in Wilmington in August. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:10:27 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: Oz bulbs? If you hadn't already gotten this one, now you have. (Just in case folks thought the Ozzy Digest was the only mailing list that ever went through phases like this...) Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1,331: 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed, 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently, 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs, 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs, 53 to flame the spell checkers, 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list, 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames, 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please email exchange to alt.lite.bulb, 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped, 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list, 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty, 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs, 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected URLs, 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list, 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too," 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy, 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three," 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ, 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup, 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion was meant for, leave it here; and finally, 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 24, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:29:46 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz The first Oz book I ever read was *Patchwork Girl*, SORT OF. It was a very thin version that was highly abridged for children. The whole book, including a hard cover, was less tha 1/2 inch thick. But that didn't bother me as a kid. I do not now recall who published it. It might have been Random House, but don't quote me on that. Anyway, it was honest and said right on the cover that it was abridged and not the real story as Baum wrote it and R&B published it. The BoW abridgement is still being passed off as the real stuff. That is what bothers me. I guess I am equally offended by false advertising as abridgement. Though I think it is sad that there is no edition of the book available commercially that can properly be advertised as "as Baum intended." Now that Peter Glassman has openly admitted that other books have also been quietly abridged and sold under false claims, I must use his own word to describe the situation. "DISTRESSING." It is highly distressing that I paid good money for something I thought was what it was claimed to be. I had believed that these were all real Oz books, and have used them as reference tools in my own work. Now I find out that I may be guilty of misquoting Baum in my books and articles due to BoW's dishonesty. That makes me phisically ill. I acted in good faith, even to the point of defending BoW when others badmouthed them. It totally breaks my heart to learn that I shouldn't have. And to have Peter use the fact the way he did. Saying that it was all on the up-and-up because they'd done it with other books, but nobody noticed. What? It is legal to commit a crime as long as you don't get caught???? Is that what he thinks even after reading (and censoring) these books? Obviously, he's not reading with any comprehension. Anyway, I have a number of improper Oz books that I bought in good faith believing them to be legitimate. My work requires me to have proper reference tools, not pretty abridgements. I was badly gypped when I bought them. I am physically ill about it, too. It is very DISTRESSING. Would anyone like to private E-Mail me an offer? I need to get these things out of sight as swiftly as possible,. 'cause they really depress me. Just looking at them makes me SICK. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:08:26 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Ozzy Digest Post Sender: BARLOW NATE > Is anybody going to see the _Wizard of Oz_ Musical Play in New York City > in May, at the Madison Garden Theatre? I have my tickets :-) I am. What date are you going? I'll be there the May 7 evening performance, so if anyone wants to get together at the show, drop me a note. Also in May, there's a _Wizard_ production in New Haven. I think it runs Thursday-Sunday of each week, but I'd have to check on that. Tickets are $12.50. I'll probably go to that one, too, but I don't know which show yet. Laughing Dragon: Bear, you only paid $10 for your LD? Lucky. Every copy that I have seen except one has been in the $200 to $250 range; unfortunately that one copy (which was $40) was not the one I purchased (someone beat me to it). It took me three years with LD being on the top of my Oz wantlist to finally acquire a copy. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:12:41 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-23-97 Steve: >Somehow I suspect that John Kennedy is not a member of the Bill Gates >Fan Club. Is _anybody_ a member of the Bill Gates Fan Club? Jeremy: Intel is the manufacturer of the Pentium (and its predecessors, the 80x86 series) microprocessor that most Windows machines run on, as opposed to the Motorola chips that the better class of computers use. :-) Bear: As I said in yesterday's Digest, BoW was planning on reprinting LAUGHING DRAGON (I don't know whether in BLB format or perhaps, as I've sometimes seen, in a more standard format with four BLB pages per page) two or three years ago. It was announced as forthcoming, but later they said that they had had problems getting the necessary clearances and had dropped it. Those of us who'd ordered it got a choice of a refund or a credit toward a future purchase. As far as I know, BoW hasn't reprinted or even considered reprinting THE PURPLE DRAGON, which is a collection of short stories by LFB selected from A NEW WONDERLAND (the original version of MMMO), MOTHER GOOSE IN PROSE, AMERICAN FAIRY TALES, and ANIMAL FAIRY TALES, edited and with introductions by David L. Greene (who will, incidentally, be a featured speaker at Ozmopolitan and maybe other Oz conventions this summer). (I assume you know this, since you mentioned the book, but it was a small-press edition - with very nice Tim Kirk illustrations - and so others on the Digest may not know about it.) Ken C.: Liked your "light bulb" humor. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:21:24 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digests for today (4/23) and yesterday (4/22) David: I think it might be the fact that Unc Nunkie does not speak very much that offended James Thurber. I assume that the Clover Festival is an annual event. The McGraws write, "Each year, when the wild four-leaf clover was at its prime, a joyful, frolicking celbration was held..." (_Forbidden Fountain_, p. 15). I agree that the fact that the Scarecrow ruled through at least one of these festivals doesn't tell much about the length of his reign. You're probably right about Glinda's dresses. I haven't really examined any illustrations of Glinda recently, and the books that I have here do not feature Glinda very prominently. Scott Olsen: I have the Easton Press editions of the first six Oz books, which I received as Christmas presents. I don't think I could have afforded them on my own. Tyler: The birth rate in Oz is never specifically mentioned, but birth is still possible after the ascension of Ozma to the throne (Ojo, Princess Pajonia, etc.), and Captain Salt, in his own book, mentions that Oz is becoming overcrowded. Jeremy: An addiction to making puns? Really? I didn't notice! (That was sarcasm.) Lynn: Speaking of Glinda's bubble, do you think that one of the writers of the MGM screenplay read _Handy Mandy_, learned of Wutz's method of travel, and gave it to Glinda? Bear: I remember seeing _Laughing Dragon_ advertised in an old Oz Collector. I don't think they went through with publishing it, however. Other Stuff: I have been re-reading _Jack Pumpkinhead_ recently, and noticed that this seems to be a low point in Neill's work. My main complaint is in the way that Snif was drawn. He looks more like a dragon than a Griffin. Also, Jinnicky is not pictured at all (unless he is in a color plate, since I have never seen the plates for this book). I'm not saying that Neill's drawings for this volume are bad, but they are certainly not his best. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:38:03 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-23-97 Re Glinda's dress / bubble: They (the bubble plus the dress) were indeed a part of the wonder of the 1939 film, but it (the dress itself) must have been awfully uncomfortable for the actress. (Burke? Don't shoot if I don't remember names from the movie, please--I've always preferred the books anyway.) Perhaps a female on the Digest can tell me if such a dress is indeed likely to be uncomfortable, as would seem likely to me, a mere male. Ken: Thanks for putting thing in perspective. (I'd always thought one bulb-changer would do the trick, little knowing the dangers of the Evil Internet, a.k.a. AOL.) NOTE: That particular anti-AOL comment was paraphrased directly from advice a friend of mine gave me the other day: "AOL is evil". I only quote. Sorry, AOL'ers. --Jeremy Steadman, Maintaining His Quota, Unquote ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:30:52 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-23-97 > From: Steve Anich > Is anybody going to see the _Wizard of Oz_ Musical Play in New York City > in May, at the Madison Garden Theatre? I have my tickets :-) > > --steve I presume you are! Give us a report. > Nathan/Tyler - Are you referring to Baum's "The Purple Dragon" rather than > the "Laughing Dragon?" The latter is a Whitman Big-Little Book and I doubt > BOW would be reproducing it. Actually BOW was planning to do a new edition of it, with new illustrations. > Now the reason LD is relatively expensive is manifold. There is demand for > it by Ozzies, as well as BLB completists, the press run was probably rather > small, it is not that great so was probably more likely to be pitched and > it is old, in fact as old as I am, 61 years. After that long things get a > little worn. > > Regards, Bear (:<) Actually it is the scarecess of the BLB because it went through only a single printing. It might be mentioned that LAUGHING DRAGON was actually based on a non-Oz MS by Frank J. Baum, ROSINE AND THE LAUGHING DRAGON. Frank did some minor revisions including subdividing the chapters, added some Oz references, and wrote a new ending for his opening chapters. This became LDO. The MS exists but will probably never be published. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:35:49 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-23-97 Robin asked "I purchased an Easton edition of OZMA. It's beautiful. What was >the original issue price? I bought it from an individual, not Easton. My books were bought from Easton by my wife as a present to me. I almost had a heart attack when I discovered she'd bought them, but I soon came around. I **think** they were in the $60-75 range, but I'll have to check on that. I have the original sales folder at work (don't ask me why I have it at work). Bear asked "[Did] LD ever appeared as a comic strip? No. The BLB was (to date) its only publication. Bear also mentioned "If you really want a lot of mail order your wife something from Victoria's Secret." Good idea. (Somehow I don't think I'd mind getting that kind of mail.) Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:40:00 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-23-97 David, There is a scene where E.T. watches a scene from _The Quiet Man_ on TV, in which John Wayne swings around Maureen O'Hara, and pulls her to him for a kiss, which Henry Thomas is acting out with Erika Eleniak through crosscutting, because E.T. experience and their link requires him to do so. It's a really interesting scene that people seem to forget about. Sorry I can't think of any really Ozzy stuff to discuss to-day. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:02:34 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Jeremy: Intel is the company that makes the chips that run the computers that have Windows on them. Intel and Windows pack such a mighty punch that the term "Wintel" has come into vogue. THey are not the only chipmakers, of course, just the biggest one. David: You mentioned that using a cell phone while driving greatly decreases your ability to do so and I responded that this is one of the reasons I won't use such things. Another is that I don't really want to be within reach of everybody 24 hours a day. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:39:43 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-23-97 Nathan: One possible theory is that the syllable "ee" is the bridge between the other two syllables, therefore Coo-ee-oh chose that particular syllable to work the bridge. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:38:38 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-22-97 David: >I'll cheerfully wait however long it takes for you to get the electronic text version of LAUGHING DRAGON. I don't actually know what dealers are charging for it; I've never seen a copy for sale. Some discussions I've had have implied that it's going for three figures, though. I could be wrong about that.< I bought my copy for $80.00 about 10 years ago--then exhausted an aerosol can of expensive acid-neutralizing spray to (I hope) make it last longer than it otherwise would have. Would not be surprised to hear it is commanding three figures now. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:42:08 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Ignoring the illustrations: In the 4/22 Digest, David Hulan says Yes, Neill's illustrations do, at times, contradict the text. A _Land_ example of this is in the chapter, "Mr. H.M. Woggle-Bug, T.E." The picture labeled "The Tin Woodman Skillfully Caught the Pumpkin" shows the Wogglebug falling off the Sawhorse as the horse's leg breaks. But in the text, the Wogglebug does not join the group until a couple minutes after the accident. However, these occasional lapses do not mean that Neill's images should be arbitrarily dismissed. Of all of the authors and illustrators associated with the Oz canon, John R. Neill is the most represented. Our perceptions of Oz have been greatly influenced by this most prolific of Royal Artists. Additionally, Neill's three pictures of the same group of houses by the road near Mombi's home are _not_ contradicted by the text. Although Baum's mention of the Mombi's neighbors could -- in a rural context -- include people living a mile away, it can also mean folk living just down the road. The text does say that Mombi had gone to a village a two-day round trip away to buy groceries. If there was a village (and presumably groceries) right by her home, why travel two days? To get magic supplies, which she did. She was engaged in illegal activity and the grocery tale was just her cover story. In the absence of any contradiction with the text, I believe that we should accept Neill's illustrations as they are presented. Anti-Aging Spell & Children: Also in the 4/22 Digest, David points out that Yes, Baum did state this and evoked the horrible image of helpless babies forever staying helpless babies. Thankfully, this was refined later to make aging a voluntary thing, with the individual deciding on his birthday whether or not to age a year in the following calendar year. One would presume that a very young child's parents or guardians would help to make this decision for him. In a rural environmen,t children have considerable value as farm laborers. At the inception of the anti-aging spell everyone would be still thinking along those lines and desire their children to grow up a fast as possible. Therefor, that generation of children would age as usual. It would only be after noticing there weren't many new births that people would start to want these few remaining children to slow down their aging, so that life would not be without the joy and beauty of children. Tip's case would be different, however. Mombi would not want Tip to grow up. The witch would prefer to keep him a young boy, in which state he would be much more manageable. Tip's birth cohort has grow up but Tip has not and there have been very few new births. That is why Tip has no playmates. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:39:32 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: QUADLING I have received a posting asking for a report on the Quadling Convention, so here it is: The Quadling Convention began with a Pizza Buffet at CiCi's (included in the $12 fee) followed by an informal Show and Tell. There were about a dozen people at the Show and Tell who introduced themselves and showed items such as Oz figures made by the wife of one of the original Munchkins, signed pictures from the 1939 movie, foreign Oz books, minature figurines, and first editions of books, some signed (I brought my WONDERFUL WIZARD with the loose free endpaper signed by Baum and Frank W. Witmark). This ended the Friday night activities except for a domino game. On Saturday morning several additional people had arrived (bringing the total to about 18), for some of them this was a first Quadling Convention. Everyone introduced him/herself and spoke briefly about their collections. I gave a brief talk about the 1914 film HIS MAJESTY THE SCARECROW OF OZ, which was followed by a showing of the video of the almost complete version with running commentary from the crowd. After this there was a charade type game played which pitched to men against the women; the women won by one point. After lunch (included: Sandwiches ordered in from Schlotzky's and lemonade) there was a rather small costume parade, only three people were there in costume. This was followed by an original person/puppet play by Ryan Bunch performed by members of the convention (including my wife, Nikki, as a dancing cow). Ryan has been writing these plays for Quadling Conventions for years and they are extremely clever. In this one the Scarecrow was magically kidnapped and Scraps, Dorothy, and the Tin Woodman go to rescue him. This was followed by a showing the video of the "Sugar and Spice Wizard of Oz," a Quadling tradition. After this there were two quizzes, one sent by last year's winner Rinny Xiques who was unable to attend, and a picture quiz by Susan Hall in which people were asked to identify if the person in each of many pictures was Dorothy, Trot or Betsy. Then there was a very brief auction (only about five items) followed by an opportunity for anyone who had brought anything to sell to try to sell it. While this was going on the Oz Kids video CHRISTMAS IN OZ was shown. A brief business meeting ended the formal activities. That evening most of the participants went to a very nice Chinese buffet restaurant (not included) and then went their separate ways, promising to return again next year. Maybe there will be more people next year. The Comfort Suites Hotel had as special rate of $49 + tax per room, which included breakfast (bacon, sausage, scrambled, biscuits and gravy, pancakes, bagels, cereals, orange juice, coffee, mimi-muffins). Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:59:54 -0400 From: Ian Brabner Subject: Greetings From the Munchkin Country <-------This was sent approx. a week ago, but apparently has not been posted to the list. Thank you for your attention to this-------> ---------------------> Greetings One and All! It's been quite a long time since I've been in touch with IWOC, conventions and Oz itself, and it's good to see this list exists, robust and energetic. I also recognize some familiar names and friendly faces here and there from days past. I'm writing for several reasons, thoughts I've been thinking, etc. 1) I notice that the IWOC "web-site" is a handful of html documents. Is there another "official" IWOC web-site I can't hunt down? I remembered the Baum Bugle as being (and I hope it still is!) a vibrant and excellent publication. It would be nice to see an online translation of equal merit. Also, from my past experiences, waiting to get the one page "Oz Trading Post" was pure agony/joy. Many happy afternoons spent dreaming and reading that aspect of the Bugle! An on-line forum could be of possible function. I would be willing to volunteer some time as a web-designer, consultant, etc. if there was an interest in revamping, initiating an official Oz web-site, representational of all Ozzians, everywhere in the on-line universe. You can visit my on-line book shop at http://www.bookgarden.com to see my web-designing efforts. If need be, I could potentially host the site as well. 2) I have been asked to provide a little insight into the world of Oz collecting/culture for a pending book publication. One theme I've considered exploring is how the Oz books spawned the vast quantity of collectible/kitsch items. I've always been primarily interested in the books themselves, but I'm hoping I can call on a few of you --should this project become a definite reality-- to possibly send along a jpg or gif of some truly unique Oz memorabilia. I would be most grateful and would try my best to see that credit was appropriated where due if within my capability as a contributor. 3) I have a 1st Edition of Sugar Loaf Mountain by Baum under the Laura Bancroft pseudonym that I would like to part with. While I have enjoyed many of Baum's non-Ozzian efforts, I have to say that I'm all-Oz at heart, and RPT especially won me over with her inimitable interpretation of Oz. Please email for details. 4) I still have my 115 page Oz ms out there written at 14 in all of its rambling and discombobulated glory! For any of you who have at various times considered taking on the vestiges of "Royal Historian of Oz" --and have met with the castigating arrows of insensitive editors-- take heart. My ms sits as yours does in that unopened shelf or old treasure trunk. My favorite rejection being, "Nice try. But no plot, character development, consistency," etc. Critics! What do they know ! Maybe someday all of the Oz pastiches will be examined in a scholarly light. Time to wind this down. I hope Mr. Meyer is hale and fit, and still has that big smile with him whenever he talks of Oz. Again, greetings to all! Cordially, Ian Brabner The Book Garden Gallery http://www.bookgarden.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 10:17:11 (Ozzy Standard Time) From: Jellia Jamb Subject: Ozzy Things Dave asked me to express his apologies for his relative silence lately and his asinine gaffes recently...He had been under stress this last week, with his mom being in the hospital...But he promises things will be back to normal, although he is saddened by the fact that people on the Digest have insisted on re-opening the wounds of the _Patchwork_/Books of Wonder debate...Dave, Ozma and I still hope for peace and love someday prevailing on the Digest... ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 25-26, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:39:27 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (R. M. Atticus Gannaway) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-24-97 JELLIA: >Dave, Ozma and I still hope for peace and love someday prevailing on the >Digest... thank you for your apt commentary. i'm considering going the way of eric gjovaag, who was a much bigger loss to the digest than i would be. i just recently returned after a six-months-or-so absence, and i cannot remember seeing this much political strife in my previous subscription. reading the digest is becoming more and more headache-inducing. what i always loved about oz is its innocence and charm. i don't get much of that from this digest. are we here to bash peter glassman? argue about feminism/derogatory racial and sexual-orientation slurs? or are we here to (i know this will sound insane) talk about oz? my advice to everyone is this: before you post something here, ask yourself how you'd feel if OZMA read it (she does, you know... jellia shows it to her). i need a couple ozpirins now. atticus Disgruntled Fellow Human Being * * * "I am no prophet--and here's no great matter; I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker, And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker, And in short, I was afraid." ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:07:18 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-24-97 Steve, > Actually it is the scarecess of the BLB because it went through only a > single printing. Is "scarecess" the feminine counterpart of "scarecrow"? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:54:51 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 4-24-97 Scott Olsen: When were the Easton Press editions of LFB's Oz books published? My 1988 revised edition of Bibliographia Oziana doesn't mention them. Glinda's dress: Apparently whoever made the original post did not make it clear to which dress they were referring, since replies posted this week run from Billie Burke's bubble to Neill's cleavage illustration. :-) Ian Brabner: Nice web site! I even placed an order. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:54:40 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Chris Dulabone: You're overstating the problem, and warping Peter Glassman's comments in the process. He said: "many ... are exact reproductions of the originals, though sometimes we make corrections and in the case of 'The Patchwork Girl of Oz' we removed a few words (less than a dozen, I believe) and one illustration which would be highly offensive to African-Americans. We have also reissued some of Baum's other books with new illustrations." This does NOT translate to your claim of "Peter Glassman has openly admitted that other books have also been quietly abridged and sold under false claims." You're right, of course, that "Patchwork" shouldn't have been advertised as a facsimile when it wasn't, and that an indication of the editing should have been put in the volume somewhere. So nu? As a scholar you may indeed want a book with typos left uncorrected and racist epithets left in. Books of Wonder could hardly afford to do the classy color-repro for an audience of scholars-only, and would have trouble (practical and/or ethical) selling editions with racist epithets to the general audience. The real choices are: dredge up the money for an early edition, get a tacky-looking photocopy of an early edition, convince a scholarly publisher (such as "Scholars Facsimiles," which did editions of "Policement Bluejay," etc.) to do a slightly less tacky- looking but still unattractive b&w edition, or get a non-scholarly full- color popular edition, with the typos corrected and the racist epithets omitted. Fortunately, these choices are not exclusive. It makes sense to ask Books of Wonder to be more careful about using the label "facsimile" and more careful about indicating what changes have been made. But it doesn't make sense to call this sort of edition an "abridgement" or to blame a publisher of popular editions for publishing popular editions, complete with correction of typos and -- in one, and only one case so far, I believe? -- with elimination of racist epithets. Steve Teller: Thanks for the Quadling-con report. David Hulan: Putting a dental stop in front of the "y" makes it harder to say, but also makes it more emphatic and more distinguishable. Linguistic changes usually move toward easier-to-say, but occasionally toward easier-to-distinguish. Documenting the change is something linguists can do pretty easily, but "why" tends to be unanswerable. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:17:44 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Ozzie Digest-Second post (Sorry, Will try to do better) Yo Digesters :=), I just opened my monthly list of offerings from the Quality Paperback Book Club and find that they have a package called "Frank Baum's OZ" which includes the three silent films that he produced and directed: _His Majesty the Scarecrow of OZ_, _The Patchwork Girl of OZ_, and _The Magic Cloak of Oz_, along with the original _Wizard of Oz_ featuring Oliver Hardy, for $34.95. Is this a good deal? Are they worth ordering? I have not seen any of them. Bob Spark -- "It is well, when judging a friend, to remember that he is judging you with the same godlike and superior impartiality." Arnold Bennett ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:26:30 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-24-97 OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: Oz > > The first Oz book I ever read was *Patchwork Girl*, SORT OF. It was a very > thin version that was highly abridged for children. The whole book, including > a hard cover, was less tha 1/2 inch thick. This was probably one of the Rand-McNally abridgements from 1939. I do not know any other PATCHWORK GIRL abridgement. > The BoW abridgement is still being passed off as the real stuff. The BoE edition is not in the normal sense an abridgement. It is over 99% complete. It is wrong to speak of BoW's dishonesty. They *may* have been guilty of an error in judgment; their advertising staff may have misused the word "facsimile" without the editor's knowledge. But I do not believe there was an intention to deceive. > My work requires me to have proper reference tools, not pretty abridgements. The books are attractive reading copies, not reference tools. > I was badly gypped when I bought them. Please, do not libel the gypsies aka Romany. > > Laughing Dragon: > Bear, you only paid $10 for your LD? Lucky. Every copy that I have seen > except one has been in the $200 to $250 range; unfortunately that one > copy (which was $40) was not the one I purchased (someone beat me to it). > It took me three years with LD being on the top of my Oz wantlist to > finally acquire a copy. > > Nate > My father bought a copy in an Ozmopolitan auction in 1966 for $40. The price has gone up since. > I think it might be the fact that Unc Nunkie does not speak very much > that offended James Thurber. > Nathan Mulac DeHoff What Thurber actually wrote was "I am positively gagged by Unc Nunkie." > From: Ian Brabner > > 1) I notice that the IWOC "web-site" is a handful of html documents. Is > there another "official" IWOC web-site I can't hunt down? Have you checked ? > I remembered the > Baum Bugle as being (and I hope it still is!) a vibrant and excellent > publication. It would be nice to see an online translation of equal merit. The BB will never be "on-line." The print version is the main thing members get for their $25. If it were online there would be less reason to join. > Also, from my past experiences, waiting to get the one page "Oz Trading > Post" was pure agony/joy. Many happy afternoons spent dreaming and reading > that aspect of the Bugle! The Oz Trading Post is available on line through the above URL. > An on-line forum could be of possible function. How would that differ from the Ozzy Digest? > > 2) I have been asked to provide a little insight into the world of Oz > collecting/culture for a pending book publication. Do you have the Stillman/Scarfone OZ COLLECTORS TREASURY? > 4) I still have my 115 page Oz ms out there written at 14 in all of its > rambling and discombobulated glory! For any of you who have at various > times considered taking on the vestiges of "Royal Historian of Oz" --and > have met with the castigating arrows of insensitive editors-- take heart. > My ms sits as yours does in that unopened shelf or old treasure trunk. My > favorite rejection being, "Nice try. But no plot, character development, > consistency," etc. Critics! What do they know ! Maybe someday all > of the Oz pastiches will be examined in a scholarly light. > Buckhead Enterprises and Books of Wonder have both published numerous pastiches. You are too late for IWOCs Centenniel Book Contest > Time to wind this down. I hope Mr. Meyer is hale and fit, and still has > that big smile with him whenever he talks of Oz. Unfortunately he is much less hale than he was a few years ago. But he will be at the Ozmopolitan Convention if you want to see him again. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:46:44 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-24-97 Nathan: I suppose Unc Nunkie's terseness might have offended Thurber, but it's hard to see why. I think it's a legitimate character trait. And anyhow, IIRC he doesn't even appear in any Baum book where he'd have occasion to say anything except for PATCHWORK GIRL. (He's part of one of the search teams in LOST PRINCESS, but nobody on that team is ever really on-stage. I don't recall his even being mentioned, and certainly not appearing on stage, in any other Baum book.) And in that book he's petrified at the beginning of chapter 5 and only thawed out in chapter 28. It would make about as much sense to get incensed about Victor Columbia Edison. (More, really, since Baum uses him to get in digs at types of music that a lot of people like.) What are the Easton Press editions of the Oz books like? From the prices people quote, they must be pretty deluxe, but do they have the Denslow or Neill illustrations intact? Are they leather-bound? Slip-cased? Gold-edged? Just trying to get a handle; I'd never heard of them before a couple of days ago. I don't know that Neill's illustrations for JACK PUMPKINHEAD are notably worse than for some other books, but it's the only one where it looks to me as if two of them were printed upside-down. (One I'm almost sure of - on page 190 of the R&L edition - because if it's right-side-up the streamlines indicate that Jack is rising rapidly into the air, and he's supposed to be falling. The one on 123 is more arguable - it doesn't make a lot of sense either way up - but it makes a bit more upside down.) Jeremy: I don't think AOL is evil. An old principle: "Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity." Bill Gates, now, is evil. :-) Steve: Speaking of LAUGHING DRAGON, I've now read it, and thought it wasn't nearly as bad as I'd understood. About in the class of a slightly above average OZIANA story. If Buckethead had published it and I were rating it for Tyler I'd waver between 3 1/2 and 4 stars. The original illustrations, which I haven't seen, might have swayed the decision one way or the other. Tyler: >You mentioned that using a cell phone while driving greatly decreases your >ability to do so and I responded that this is one of the reasons I won't use >such things. Another is that I don't really want to be within reach of >everybody 24 hours a day. Ah. Actually, I said that using a cell phone while driving impairs driving more than a couple of drinks. It doesn't impair _my_ driving, because I don't have a cell phone and wouldn't use one while driving if I did. And I couldn't agree with you more about not wanting to be within reach of everybody 24 hours a day. Earl: I defer to Neill as far as his depictions of individual characters are concerned, but because of the numerous inconsistencies between his illustrations and the text, I give the specific composition of his illustrations no weight at all as authority, even if they don't contradict the text. However, YMMV. You are saying, then, that Baum was simply wrong in his statement in TIN WOODMAN that babies stayed babies, etc.? And that the change noted in KABUMPO (I think that was the first time) wasn't a later modification of the spell, but how it worked from the beginning? Steve: The Quadling Convention sounds like fun. Is Tulsa the regular locale? (Too far for me to drive, but if there's a cheap flight...) Out of curiosity, did Susan's picture quiz include that portrait from GIANT HORSE that's mislabeled "Dorothy at Home in Oz" even though it's clearly intended to be Trot? Ian: As Steve and others have said, since the BUGLE is the principle benefit most people get from belonging to the IWOC, putting it on the Web would be self-destructive. The same thing, to a much lesser extent, would be true of putting the Trading Post on the Web. That one, though, might produce more memberships through good PR than it would lose people who no longer needed to belong to the club in order to get it. (Especially if listing something on the OTP was restricted to members.) Dave: Sorry to hear that your mother has been in the hospital. I hope she's recovering well by now. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:19:45 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-24-97 Re the confusion on Glinda's mode of travel: That's the problem that comes from living ome's life in a bubble. Re Tip and Anti-Aging: Earl Abbe says that parents generally "help make that decision for them" (i.e., for babies, when to grow up). Tip was hardly an infant, and even if he was when Mombi first got her claws on him, it seems to me that he would gain enough autonomy at the age at which we first meet him to make his own decisions. Does this mean that he himself wanted to remain a child? A child dominated by Mombi?! Or does this mean that once an adult starts a child aging, the adult has control over the child for the remainder of his/her life? Or did Mombi stop his growth entirely, in which case we would have to attribute more power to her than before? It seems more reasonable to me to set up a slow-aging theory, in which age is not stopped but rather slowed to an almost imperceptible rate. Of course, in that case, lots of book possibilities open up--ones set in the far future, when Dorothy is a teenager or even an adult, for example . . . See! I can be serious at times! (Not often enough, perhaps . . .) --Jeremy Steadman, Ozologist at Large (and Small) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:06:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Laughing Dragon of Oz 1) Atticus, strictly legal or not, please send me a copy of _Laughing Dragon_. If the cops ask, Ruggedo's been using your account without permission. (: 2) Exactly what sort of punishment is pressing? The image I get in my mind is so ludicrous that I'd like some confirmation that it's actually sqeezing. Thanks in advance. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:23:52 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-24-97 Chris, the first Oz book I read was a heavily abridged version which I am certain is somewhere, but I can't find it. My parents probably lost it among their things to do some shoddy repair work to it, as they always do and never get around to. It's depicted in the collector's treasury, though I don't have , so I can't say where. I read this, a book called _Over the Rainbow_, which I think due to some recent detective work that this is part IV of Bill Morrison's illustrated Oz storiybooks. This was on the shelf at the library at my pre-school. I had supposedly unabridged copies of the book (though one does say bright rather than yellow) and I am almost certain I did read this before I saw the MGM movie when I was six. I guess that's unuasual for someone my age. (I'm 21.) At any rate, I had at least read parts of it, and had heard Ray Bolger's abridgement before then. The first Oz book I read was probably the first book I read. I knew that I was reading it myself by age two. My preschool teachers noticed I could read, and forced me to spend about ten minutes a day reading _See Dick and Jane_ slowly for them, going over pages muiltiple times before moving forward. It was an eternity of condecension, which it why I wrote my Oz book at my reading level, so the kids who read it won't be condescended to, as they often do with Roger Baum's books. BTW, is their any possibility that Buckethead can get ahold of _Rosine and the Laughing Dragon_? Ther is actually a possibility that I might get to go to the Ozmapolitan Convention this year. I won't be able to save up the money until after the due date, but I'm trying to convince my parents to loan me the money, which I'm certain I'll be able to pay back to them. Scott (IWOC member since 1988, never attended a convention) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:47:18 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Nate - I want to correct what I said about "Laughing Dragon" yesterday. On checking my BLB inventory I find I bought it in June 1981 and paid $50 for it. At one time someone had written $10 inside the cover and it had been erased. I thought I had erased it. Unfortunately, that was not the case. That was as much as I have paid for any BLB except one other. There are two versions of the first Mickey Mouse BLB. I finally found the Eubanks version in 1980 at an antique show for $50. Fortunately I did only pay $10 for the other version. Most of my BLBs were purchased for 10 cents. :) :) Anyway, it sounds like my LD purchase was a good investment. I guess I ignored the offer in the Oz Collector. David - Since you asked, I am happy to admit to being a member of the Bill Gates fan club. He is responsible for some great software that I use, he has donated whole buildings to my alma mater, and he has created jobs for uncounted thousands of people. He is a producer. We need more of them to support all the leeches in our society. So what's your gripe? David again - I was fortunate enough to buy a copy of "The Purple Dragon" when it came out in 1976 and it is as you describe. It even has a glued in plate signed by Tim Kirk, David L. Greene and "L. Frank Baum." Is this a forgery, a "facsimile" or did Baum's ghost sign this book? Is your copy the same? The only reason I knew about this book was that I was buying other books from Fictioneer Books, the publisher, at the time. Gili - Are you studying too hard these days? We miss you. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 02:36:30 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest On the Demise of Witches, In medieval England witches were definitely burned at the stake. But if they confessed and repented, they were granted the "mercy" of strangulation. This was graphically described in Scott's Ivanhoe and many other references. Dave Hulan, The current price for a Laughing Dragon is $150 to $250, depending on condition. But it can still sometimes be found (with luck) among dealers' Big-Little Books in the $10 range. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:08:42 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Wizard of Oz Record Album Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' Barbara, We can't tell you anything about the value, but as to the info on the album, I'm forwarding your message to the Oz fans on the Ozzy Digest. I'll bet someone knows! Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: Barb Turner [SMTP:barbt@unllib.unl.edu] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 1997 1:59 PM Cc: Barb Turner Subject: Wizard of Oz Record Album When I was a little girl (I'm 44 now), I think it was Corn Flakes, but not really sure which cereal it was, had an advertisement about ordering a record album of The Wizard of Oz. Of course, I saved my money and sent for it. I still have that album. The album is the full length version of the movie, songs and words. Neither the record cover or the album has a date, so I have no idea what the copyright date is. I am interested in learning more about this album and what the value is. Thank you. Barbara Turner 2749 A Street, #2 Lincoln, NE 68502 (402) 475-4025 - home (402) 472-2545 - work barbt@unllib.unl.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:59:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-24-97 LAUGHING DRAGON: Another reason it's so expensive nowadays is because the darned thing is so fragile. Cheap paper, poor binding--the thing is frequently found disbound and/or with pages badly chipped (that browning paper is brittle). Getting a decent copy is difficult. On t'other hand, the original owners of LD probably didn't often reread or handle the book. Let's just say that it wouldn't win a writing contest... BTW, I paid $16.00 for mine almost 25 years ago; those were the good old days of collecting! Easton Press: Gee, I guess I blew it by only buying OZMA from the seller. He had more of the titles...all selling at $30.00 each. I have a definite bias against "instant collectibles," and deliberately didn't buy any when first isssued:that was the only way I had to protest the gimmick. OZMA, however, is one of my very favorite of the FF, if not my top fave, so I couldn't resist buying it when offered. I guess I shoulda bought the other titles too, huh? Win some, lose some. --Robin O. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:48:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Allison Subject: Talk about WOZ To all Midwestern listmembers I am trying to organize a panel for a convention I help put on in June in Oak Brook. The convention started as a venue to give an award for the year's best children's fantasy, although it has diversified since. The basic concept for the panel would be to discuss books which contain both children's fantasy and political satire-two other possibilities being Alice in Wonderland and Gulliver's Travels. Anyway, I wondered if someone who knows more about these references in the Oz books, especially WOZ and LOO. would be willing to participate on the panel. Now that most of the books are back in print, it would be nice to remind adults that they are worth reading both for themselves and their kids. BTW, I only stress the geography because the convention can't afford to pay expenses-if anyone who is in town for the ABA would like to participate, that would be great. Carol Mitchell ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:06:37 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-24-97 Nathan: >Speaking of Glinda's bubble, do you think that one of the writers of the MGM screenplay read _Handy Mandy_, learned of Wutz's method of travel, and gave it to Glinda?< Or they read "Road to Oz," featuring the Wizard's Bubble Machine--which he uses to send various guests home. They (the bubble plus the dress) were indeed a part of the wonder of the 1939 film, but it (the dress itself) must have been awfully uncomfortable for the actress. (Burke? Don't shoot if I don't remember names from the movie, please--I've always preferred the books anyway.) Perhaps a female on the Digest can tell me if such a dress is indeed likely to be uncomfortable, as would seem likely to me, a mere male. Jeremy: If the material was scratchy, a woman could solve the problem by wearing a slip or other comfortable undergarments to make it bearable. I solve the problem by not buying scratchy or itchy clothes to begin with. The MGM Glinda's dress seems to be strictly for the ballroom. I'd hate to try to navigate a muddy street or climb a fence in a confection like that. Or try to sit down in it. :-) The Real Glinda: So would I. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Apr 97 15:49:25 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Atticus wrote: >my advice to everyone is >this: before you post something here, ask yourself how you'd feel if OZMA >read it (she does, you know... jellia shows it to her). I'd say this is sound advice... Jellia: So would I! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 27, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:07:30 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-22-97 In re: classic Coke. If you really want classic Coke, buy it around Passover, and make sure it's identified as "Kosher for Passover". That's a guarantee that it was made with regular sugar and not corn syrup. (Sometimes you'll get regular sugar anyway, depending on the vagaries of the market, but "Kosher for Passover" Coke has to be made that way.) Nathan Mulac DeHoff wrote: >It turns out to be >correct, but the thinking of Glinda (or whoever it was) seemed >fallacious, since it was based on the assumption that Coo-ee-oh thought >in the same arbitrary order that this other character did. But that sort of thinking is the very essence of magic! Tyler Jones wrote: >Windows NT stands for Windows Network, Microsofts operating system for >local networks. A Server acts as the main hub and other computers (called >workstations) are linked through it. Unless Microsoft has "changed its mind" again, it stands for "New Technology", and it has no necessary connection with networks at all. It is a better, more stable system than either Windows '95 or Windows classic, and in some limited respects it is superior to the MacOS -- chiefly in that it offers true multitasking. On the other hand, it is far inferior to UNIX, and is the product of the most aggressive and unethical monopoly of the past century. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:26:22 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-23-97 David G. Hulan wrote: >I was thinking about >a different aspect of copyright law (that distributing copies of >something you write yourself in limited quantities, not for pay, doesn't >lose your copyright protection even if you don't state it's copyright) "In limited quantities" and "not for pay" have nothing to do with it. Under the Berne Convention, if you write something, it's copyright by you, unless A) it is "work for hire", in which case it is copyright by your employer or B) you expressly donate the work to the public domain. In older days, the US did indeed have some barbarous laws requiring notice, registration, and (for non-U.S. authors) U.S. printing, but lack of notice no longer loses copyright (It _might_ excuse an inadvertant plagiarism taken from an unmarked copy, but it doesn't kill the copyright altogether), registration only effects your ability to receive punitive, as well as compensatory, damages, and the domestic-printing clause is gone completely. Jeremy Steadman wrote: >what's an Intel? The company that invented the microprocessor, and specifically the company that developed the 8086 microprocessor and its descendants, the family of microprocessors that drives the IBM and IBM-like PCs. Certain other companies make compatible chips, and there have been quite a few lawsuits over trademarks and licenses. (Several interesting rulings have gone against them, such as "You can't trademark a mere number," and "If you sell a company a license to manufacture your product line because you can't make enough, you can't turn around the next year and say 'Oh no, we only meant you could manufacture last year's model.'" The former is the reason their current chip received the barbarous name "Pentium" instead of "80586".) "Wintel", by the way (usually in the phrase: "The Wintel monopoly") is a made-up name referring to Microsoft and Intel jointly. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 13:03:05 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz I have just received an E-Mail from Ken Cope, in which he "invited" me to make an apology for my last posting. FWIW, I have not personally seen my last posting. Either I have been excommunicated from the Digest, or AOL's spam-stopper is acting up again. In any event, I Chris Dulabone, do humbly apologize if I have said or done anything inaccurate or unjustified which in any way defamed the character of Peter Glassman or his company, Books of Wonder (BoW). Over the past several years, I have purchased a number of books from BoW (some directly from Peter himself, but mostly by mail). In each event, I had been erroneously told that these products were something that (as Peter has just admitted openly) they were not. I had been using these books as reference tools. Peter also now admits they were never intended for that purpose, despite the fact that he had sold them to me knowing my intentions for them. In short, the products were represented as something I could use, which they are not. Peter then tried to justify the action by saying that "no one ever noticed." I consider that a very juvenile attitude to take. I am not intending to sell any of my ECP books, at least none that are faithful to the FF. (So far I deem only one un-HACC, and am not selling that one, either). For the most part, I feel that these are worth my attention. My objection is more with the false advertising than anything else, as was stated in my last posting. The very first Oz book I ever read was a (I am correcting my previous error -NOT Random House) Rand McNally (hope I spelled that right), which was only a few pages long. But it was presented as a "Junior Edition," so was not misrepresented, so I thought 'twas okay at the time. Still do, actually. I had been a regular customer of BoW for many years. I had stood up for them when others spoke ill of them. Ken, if you have any conscience at all, you can see where I felt as if I had been more than just cheated, but... I am trying to avoid the R word as this Digest is read by children. Is "assaulted" okay? "Violated?" That is how I felt. I never meant to self-promote, defame, or any other distasteful act. I was simply reacting to the fact that I had been "violated." I am not going to say that I think it was done intentionally or maliciously. I am of the understanding that it was not. If I have hurt any feelings, I am sorry. But the fact remains that I was a victim, and I still have a lot of books here that Peter Glassman, in his newfound honesty, has admitted were sold to me under false pretense and so are of no use to me. The crime was committed, but I also feel that it has been admitted to. That does not make it okay, but I don't have a time machine to go back in time with to change it. I can forgive whoever is responsible at BoW for what happened. I'm not holding a grudge. But it is a lot easier for me to forgive than to forget. IAE: again, I pose the offer; if anyone wants to buy a number of very pretty books, private E-Mail me. I am not going to misrepresent them as accurate Oz books. But I will say that they are beautifully crafted. They would make perfect coffee-table books to display when you have company over. But they are only about 99.999% Baum, and I'm afraid I cannot tell you what, if anything, is abridged in any of particular one of them. Therefore, please don't use them as reference tools. But do offer them to your children to be read and enjoyed, for the lovely stories as well as the absolutely gorgeous colors. In this area, BoW is unchallenged. They do put out prettily-colored books. ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 16:57:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-26-97 Hi Dave, I believe readers of the Ozzy Digest may be interested in knowing that Dover still lists its black-and-white photo-facsimile of _The Patchwork Girl of Oz_ as in print. Its text was not modified from the original. The Easton Press printings of the first four Oz titles appear to have been produced under license from Morrow. They have fairly elaborately decorated leather bindings (die-stamped with designs derived from Denslow and Neill). When I last checked they were still available from Easton. Peter ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 16:57:07 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-26-97 Dave, I would like to second David Hulan's message about your mother, and am sure that all of us are looking forward to her recovery. I would also like to urge Atticus to reconsider his decision (if he has so decided) to leave this forum. For the time that I have been subscribed he has been an asset. I'm sure that we can move on to more civilized discourse. Bob Spark ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:35:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-26-97 David: Neill's (and others') illos were frequently flipped, either vertically or horizontally. I even did a pictorial quiz in THE OZ GAME BOOK using those and other illo goofs. Yes, the Easton Press Oz books are leatherbound and lovely. My OZMA is bright red, nicely stamped with the Ozma and Dot inside OZ logo, and gilded top, bottom, and foredge. Moire ep's. Am I the only one who didn't like Glinda's bubble in the MGM movie? *MY* Glinda would have flown in inside her chariot, not to mention the fact that Glinda shouldn't have been there in the first place. I was five, and I was absolutely outraged. That bubble and silly dress were the final straw for me. Now, they're both part of Oz lore, and I'm quite fond of the silly things. ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:53:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Strange Aging in Oz 1) Jeremy, you're too late. In _Lurline's Machine_, Dorothy, Ojo, Trot, Button-Bright (now called Saladin), Betsy, Kiki Aru, and probably all other major child characters have grown up out of a conscious decision to do so, not from creeping aging. Ozma, being a fairy, is basically ageless. 2) A last comment on _The Land of Oz_: Why is it named _The Land of Oz_ or more properly _The Marvelous Land of Oz_? I know that Baum originally wanted to name it _The Further Adventures of the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman_ but R&B (or is it R&L?) wanted 'Oz' in the title, but why give the book such a generic title. Following _Wizard_, one might expect _The Scarecrow King of Oz_, _The General of Oz_, or _The Northern Witch of Oz_. The Laumerian title _An Orphan in Oz_ would also would nicely. Any info on the title choice? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:24:53 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-26-97 Atticus: We here on the Digest are, alas, human beings. Most of us try to be mild and placid in our comments, but there will be occasional times when one or another will get a bit uptight and produce a stressed-out post. Compared to any other similar group I've ever encountered, however, this isn't at all an acrimonious one. If it's too much for you, then so, probably, is the Internet. Pity if so, because I've enjoyed your posts. (I enjoyed Eric G's as well, but once I recognized his problem I knew he'd be gone pretty soon.) Ruth: I agree with you 100% about your comments to Chris D. I couldn't come up with anything as tactful as your post when I was thinking about it, so I decided the better part of wisdom was to keep quiet, but I second what you said. Bob: Other video vendors have advertised the same package for $24.95, so the one you cite isn't particularly good. On the other hand, it's not bad. Aaron: "Pressing" involved laying someone out on a hard surface, placing a large plank on top of him, and then placing stones on the plank until the person in question confessed (so he could be hanged) or died. (The masculine pronoun was just English convention; the one pressed might just as easily be female.) One of the numerous ways Christian sects invented for ferreting out those who didn't agree with their particular set of dogmas. Scott H.: If you think you'll be able to attend the Ozmopolitan Conference this year but are having a problem with scraping the money up by the (soon-to-pass) deadline, E-mail me (as the Registrar) privately. We can probably work something out (as long as you're reasonably sure you can come up with the required funds before the conference). Bear: Bill Gates is, in my opinion, the 20th century reincarnation of Cornelius Vanderbilt, the founder of my own alma mater. (Of whom our cheer went: "O I am a student at Vandy; Our colors have set us apart: Gold for the Commodore's money, and black for the Commodore's heart.") Both Vanderbilt and Gates created jobs for a lot of people - but they paid less than their competitors, and used monopolistic twists to run technologically superior but less politically well-connected rivals out of business. However, I recognize that you regard economic success as being its own justification. Just don't ask me to agree. No, my copy of THE PURPLE DRAGON doesn't have any signatures in it, though I imagine I could get both Kirk's and Greene's easily enough if I wanted to. Baum's, I admit, would be more difficult... Carol: June is an extremely busy month for me, but Oak Brook is half an hour's drive from my home, and I'd be happy to participate in that panel if it happens on a date that I'm not otherwise occupied. E-mail me privately about it, pleas. David Hulan ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 02:16:09 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest On the Laughing Dragon: While the book was printed in the style of the Big Little Books, it was never officially in this Series. It probably had a much smaller press run than most BLBs, but the main reason for its rarity is the fact that most of the copies were recalled because of a copyright dispute between Whitman and Reilly and Lee. Dick Randolph, Only a couple of the Oz Books (I only have the Wizard) were printed by Easton Press in their deluxe bindings, and they were issued as part of their great literature series. Bibliographica Oziana has never pretended to be inclusive of ALL reprints, especially of the Wizard. Only the mainstream editions are cited. Herm Bieber ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:28:06 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: CD of the Wizard of Oz Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' Brian, You should be able to order this CD through the Internet. There are a few different versions including a deluxe one with additional soundtrack on Rhino Records. I'm forwarding your message to the Ozzy Digest, as I think the subscribers there can give you some more specific info. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: bpmynals@euronet.nl [SMTP:bpmynals@euronet.nl] Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 1997 9:02 AM Subject: CD of the Wizard of Oz To a fan in the U.S.A. Pls can you help me....... In holland it's impossible to get the CD from the film the Wizard of Oz. I' am trying to get this CD for a year now. If you wan't to make me happy pls reply and look for this CD album. I'm looking forward to hear from you! Regards, Brian Mijnals tel no. 31302432463 Holland Dr H.M. Evenhuis NWO Ontginningssubsidie Hooge Burch P.O. Box 2027 2470 AA Zwammerdam the Netherlands tel *31 172 630449 fax *31 172 630201/204 ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:31:25 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: "Oz" Hourglass -----Original Message----- From: International Wizard of Oz Club [SMTP:iwoc] Sent: Sunday, April 27, 1997 12:54 AM Subject: RE: "Oz" Hourglass Scott, Offhand, I don't know, but I'm forwarding your message to the Ozzy Digest in case someone knows if it still exists and if it is Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: Scott Reynolds [SMTP:HAIRBAG@webtv.net] Sent: Thursday, April 10, 1997 7:32 AM Subject: "Oz" Hourglass Does anyone out there know who owns the hourglass from "The Wizard Of Oz"???? ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 08:24:03 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Children & the Anti-Aging Spell In the 4/27 Digest, David Hulan says Yes. Perhaps, by the time of _Woodman_, the people were in the height of their reaction to there being almost no remaining children. Those few persons who did have a baby were unwilling to let it grow at all. Only later did a more moderate, sensible attitude prevail, allowing children to grow -- but very slowly. On the same subject and in the same issue, Jeremy Steadman questions that parents or guardians could make the aging decision for their children when the children had ceased to be babies. With wide variation, parental influence gradually decreases throughout the maturation process. A child's decisions are a mix of her own and her parents' inclinations. The relative portions of this mix are determined not only by the child's natural assertiveness but also on the extent to which the parents allow the child to develop and assert her desires. That Tip/Ozma was able to grow and to exhibit an independence and boisterousness at all, after being under Mombi's control for years, says more about his/her strength of spirit than about Mombi's power. Earl Abbe ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:48:20 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-26-97 Sender: BARLOW NATE The discussion about the price for _Laughing Dragon_ started me thinking--has anyone ever performed an inflation-adjusted comparison of Oz book prices over the last 25 to 20 years, to see how much of the overall raise in price is due to increased rarity and collector interest as opposed to the continual rise in inflation. Just look at a few LD setpoints: Robin's copy, almost 25 years ago: $16.00 Bear's copy, 1981: $50.00 My copy, 1993: $230.00 Obviously, there's other factors to consider, such as condition (mine's very good, if I recall--I haven't seen it in a while since it's not at my apartment). It might be an interesting study to perform across several books, if someone has the time and price records for 25 to 30 years ago. On cell phones: I have used mine a couple times when driving, but try to avoid doing so. Once you're talking it's not distracting (though I've had to put the phone down to shift gears); it's the dialing where you're concentration is really split. I don't understand the "I don't want people to be able to contact me 24 hours a day" argument--leave the phone off, don't give out the number, and only use it to dial out yourself! That's what I do. I got the thing because I travel a lot for business and personal reasons. If you're in another city without a home or office line where someone can contact you if necessary, or it your car were to break down in the middle of nowhere, a cell phone can be a godsend. Nate ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:52:04 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz PG: From what I remember from Peter's last post, there was going to be a notice about the change, that did not get put it. In other words, it was a accident that the books got out without a disclaimer that some things had been edited. I do not believe that Peter Glassman ever had any intention to deceive or mislead anybody about the change. LAUGHING DRAGON: I paid $200 for mine (ouch!). It has fallen apart a little bit since then. If Books of Wonder can ever get the copyright stuff straightened out, I'll buy one from them and give my BLB one away for free! Steve and Earl: I am with Steve perhaps 99% on this. Illos in the Oz books are rarely meant to reflect the text exactly. They just show some of the people in a general way along with lots of other stuff. For example, often characters appear in illos that are not mentioned at all in the text. BEOO, for instance often includes illos that have nothing to do with the entire story, because Chris has a backlog of pictures that he needs to use. IMHO, pictures are rarely an accurate representation of what is exactly going on in a story. Sometimes, illos drawn many years before or after the story are included (such as Eric Shanowers pics for _Wicked Witch_). However, sometimes I do use the pictures to answer questions, if I am able to do so. There was a discussion of _Rinkitink_ a while back, and we were asking if Dorothy had taken the magic belt with her. The text did not mention it at all. According to some (such as myself), this was when the belt was still in "recharge mode" after its extensive use in _Emerald City_. A picture in chapter 20 shows Dorothy without the belt. Therefore, I assume that she was not wearing it, since the text does not mention it and additional confirmation is given by the illustration. Aging: I for one beleive that Baum was simply wrong when he stated that Lurline's intent was to stop all aging and that all aging actually stopped when Ozma ascended the throne. I explained my MOPPeT once, and here it is again. Baum, as the first explorer of Oz, had very little data to go on. He looked around, saw little if any evidence of aging on people over the years, and simply assumed that all aging had been halted. For example, suppose that I were to visit somebody in a country where aging was very slow. Over a period of 20 years, this person ages from about 20 to about 24. There is no way that I would notice this, and I would probably assume that there is no aging at all. In later years, as we explored Oz more thoroughly and observed people over longer periods of time, we realized that aging did not stop, but only slowed down. Perhaps non-aging was Lurline's original intent. If so, she may have altered the spell before Ozma ascended the throne after realizing that a land in which there was no aging for anybody, ever, would be a mistake. There is no evidence that Lurline altered the spell after Ozma ascended the throne, so I assume that she either changed it long ago, or that non-aging was never her intent in the first place, and this was only an error by Baum. Oz Trading Post: People could use their name and an assigned password to access to OTP online. Only active members would have a valid password. Of course, we would have to update the database every year. Jeremy: Cleary, I am in agreement with you that the slow-aging theory is much more plausible that the stop-aging theory. Of course, we really don't know how the thing works. Maybe it works differently for babies and small children to the extent that their parents or guardians have some measure of control as to how fast they age. BTW, I wouldn't mention your ideas of Dorothy-as-teenager or Dorothy-as-adult to Chris! FYI, March Laumer has assumed that Dorothy is at least sixteen and married! (You may address her as Doctor Choggolak) :-) Bear: I guess for most people, it's Bill's attitude more than anything else. IMHO, he is an American hero, but, to paraphrase Hawkeye Pierce, "It's not WHAT he did, it's the way he did it". Wait a minute, Bear. Aren't you a Macintosh guy? --Tyler Jones ======================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ======================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 28, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 16:56:06 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-26-97 > Is "scarecess" the feminine counterpart of "scarecrow"? > > Bob Spark > Either that, or a typicalgraphocal error. > From: Richard Randolph > Scott Olsen: When were the Easton Press editions of LFB's > Oz books published? My 1988 revised edition of Bibliographia > Oziana doesn't mention them. > Bib. Oz. does not list all reprint editions. The Easton Press editions were expensive facsimiles, beautifully bound no doubt, but of little textual significance > From: Bob Spark > I just opened my monthly list of offerings from the Quality > Paperback Book Club and find that they have a package called "Frank > Baum's OZ" which includes the three silent films that he produced and > directed: _His Majesty the Scarecrow of OZ_, _The Patchwork Girl of OZ_, > and _The Magic Cloak of Oz_, along with the original _Wizard of Oz_ > featuring Oliver Hardy, for $34.95. > Is this a good deal? Are they worth ordering? I have not seen any > of them. > I reviewed this package in the latest BAUM BUGLE. They are difinitely worth ordering if you do not have them. Some correspondents have seem the package for less that $34.95, but they are a bargain at that price. > Steve: > Speaking of LAUGHING DRAGON, I've now read it, and thought it wasn't > nearly as bad as I'd understood. About in the class of a slightly above > average OZIANA story. If Buckethead had published it and I were rating > it for Tyler I'd waver between 3 1/2 and 4 stars. The original > illustrations, which I haven't seen, might have swayed the decision one > way or the other. How were you albe to read it without the illustrations? > Steve: > The Quadling Convention sounds like fun. Is Tulsa the regular locale? > (Too far for me to drive, but if there's a cheap flight...) > It has been held in Tulsa for over a decade now, and at the Comfort Suites for the past three years. It's only 675 miles from Naperville. A short 10 hour drive down I-55 and I-44. > Out of curiosity, did Susan's picture quiz include that portrait from > GIANT HORSE that's mislabeled "Dorothy at Home in Oz" even though it's > clearly intended to be Trot? > I believe so. > David Hulan > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > > 2) Exactly what sort of punishment is pressing? The image I get in my > mind is so ludicrous that I'd like some confirmation that it's actually > sqeezing. Thanks in advance. > Imagine lying flat on a large table and having heavy weights piled on your chest until the ribs crack and you are crushed to death. It isn't very ludicrous for the participant (it might be for the audience). > BTW, is > their any possibility that Buckethead can get ahold of _Rosine and the > Laughing Dragon_? > They might get ahold of it, but they had better not publish it. There is no public domain date for unpublished MSS. The rights belong to the Baum family and only they can authorize publication. > Ther is actually a possibility that I might get to go to the Ozmapolitan > Convention this year. I won't be able to save up the money until after > the due date, but I'm trying to convince my parents to loan me the money, > which I'm certain I'll be able to pay back to them. > Good luck! > Scott > (IWOC member since 1988, never attended a convention) Well, it would be about time. Actually I attended my first convention *before* I was a member (my father was). > > David again - I was fortunate enough to buy a copy of "The Purple Dragon" > when it came out in 1976 and it is as you describe. It even has a glued= in > plate signed by Tim Kirk, David L. Greene and "L. Frank Baum." Is this a > forgery, a "facsimile" or did Baum's ghost sign this book? Is your copy > the same? The only reason I knew about this book was that I was buying > other books from Fictioneer Books, the publisher, at the time. > David Greene will be a speaker at the Ozmopolitan Convention this year. He could tell you how "Baum" happened to sign the book. > Regards, Bear (:<) > BTW Dave: I saw the dress rehersal of BLITHE SPITIT Thursday and enjoyed it greatly. (They always want me at dress rehersals, especially of comedies, because I laugh very audibly). Soon it will be OZMA time. Steve T. ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:10:51 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz Atty: The other day I posted something in a heated moment that reflected a momentary anger. I tried to clarify yesterday, but my clarification seems to have still upset a lot of you. I have always had a hot temper and it sometimes gets out of control. This coupled with the established fact that I can't open my mouth without inserting my foot can cause a lot of trouble for people around me. Hence, if one of us should leave the Digest, it should NOT be you. You are a nice person. Whoever asked if I can get LAUGHING DRAGON: Well, I have a xerox of the MS. I am not looking at it right now, but I recall that the Whitman book was either just chapter one, or maybe it was the first few chapters. In any event, the book is long enough to have made a ton of BLBs. If there is a way to get (C) permission, which there probably is not on my funds, I am still missing a page that someone I know has, and we are both missing a portion of another. So my guess is that you'll have to look to someone else to publish it. But it is a very good book that should be published complete - preferably NOT as a series of Whitman BLBs. My copy is typewritten with a LOT of pencilled in corrections and editations (presumably by the author) that I would not be able to scan. So I'd need someone who really really loves to type before I could even think of publishing it, anyhow. Annie: We have had a few setbacks with JOUST. All, of course, $$$-related. But it is back at press and coming along nicely. If I don't insert my foot in my mouth too many more times and cause everyone and his dog to hate me, I am keeping my fingers crossed that they will be at Winkie. If I decide I don't want to show my face at Winkie (I am thinking in that direction ever since about the day before yesterday), I don't know if I'll have representation there or not. ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:39:57 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Some thoughts on _Ozma Of OZ_ Hello there, When I was a child, _Ozma_ was one of my favorite Oz books, but upon re-reading it I find that I am still bothered by the same few things that bothered me then: First, Tik-Tok says "Af-ter-ward the King of Ev re-gret-ted his wick-ed ac-tion, and tried to get his wife and the chil-dren a-way from the Nome King, but with-out a-vail. So, in de-spair, he locked me up in this rock, threw the key in-to the o-cean, and then jumped in af-ter it and was drowned." If Tik-Tok was locked up in the rock, how did he know what happened afterward? Second, it seems to me that a firm of "won-der-ful in-ven-tors" like Smith & Tinker could have come up with something more efficient to "keep folks from fin-ding the un-der-ground pal-ace" than that "i-ron gi-ant". Third, on page 158, the Nome King's army is described as consisting of "rock-colored Nomes, all squat and fat", but in the picture on the opposite page they all seem to be slim and trim. Fourth, a definite point is made that eggs are poison to Nomes, but they don't seem to have that effect. Even when the Scarecrow throws the eggs at the Nome King, the only result seems to be that he can't see because his eyes are blocked by the egg liquid. He seems to suffer no lasting health problems. Maybe the Nomes just don't like eggs. Fifth, and last, what ARE those things on either side of Ozma's head? (Do they have any relation to Princess Leia's weird hairdo in _Star Wars?) Awaiting Enlightenment, Bob Spark -- "Women are like elephants to meI like to look at 'em but I wouldn't want to own one." W.C. Fields ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 16:09:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: More on _Laughing Dragon of Oz_ Hi Dave, There has been considerable discussion in recent days about Frank Joslyn Baum's _The Laughing Dragon of Oz_. To my knowedge, the brief account about the book in _Bibliographia Oziana_ remains accurate, and it provides information that differs from some of the comments submitted to the Ozzy Digest. A few highlights: F. J. Baum wrote a full-length fantasy, _Rosine in Oz_, but Reilly & Lee declined to published. In 1932, F. J. Baum arranged with David Graham Fischer, Publisher, of Hollywood to issue the book as _Rosine and the Laughing Dragon_, but no full-length version is known, although a proof for the dust jacket or cover design survives. In 1934, F. J. Baum arranged with Whiman Publishing Company of Racine, Wisconsin, to publish a portion of his manuscripts as _The Laughing Dragon of Oz_. In advance of its publication, F. J. Baum attempted to secure a trademark in the word "OZ" and around April 1934 printed a pamphlet entitled, _Jimmy Bulber of Oz_, to demonstrate that he was using the trademark (the story was reprinted in _Oziana 4_ in 1974). Whitman published _The Laughing Dragon of Oz_ in January 1935 as part of its Big Little Book series, number 1126. The title page indicates that OZ is a registered trade mark. Publisher and author planned a sequel to be entitled _The Enchanted Princess of Oz_. However, Reilly & Lee brought suit, arguing (with support from other members of the Baum family) that "Oz" was its common-law trademark (winning that point in a separate case). The agreement with Whitman was that it would not reprint _The Laughing Dragon of Oz_ and would not proceed with publication of _The Enchanted Princess of Oz_. The agreement did not require a recall of copies of the original edition of _The Laughing Dragon of Oz_. Although _The Laughing Dragon of Oz_ bears the copyright date of 1934, the book was not actually published until January 1935. Peter E. Hanff ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:49:06 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-27-97 I think AOL isn't getting the Digest again. Joyce Odell said that she hadn't gotten one since 4/22; I forwarded her copies of the 4/23 and 4/24 editions and hope she got them. I'm feeling a bit smug that I changed providers when I did... Robin: I hadn't noticed left-to-right flipping of Neill's illustrations, but unless there's something like lettering on them, that's harder to notice than top-to-bottom flipping. (Although I do think I remember noticing that in one illustration in GRAMPA a character who's right-handed in the other illustrations seems to be left-handed.) Aaron: You reminded me of one last comment I wanted to make on LAND before we move on to OZMA. There seems to be an implication at the end that for quite some time after he returned to Oz, the Scarecrow remained stuffed with money from the Outside World. Does anyone have a theory (other than that his brains weren't working well) why he didn't get himself restuffed with straw as soon as he was somewhere that straw was available? (He'd done so by the time of OZMA, at least.) Tyler: Certainly observing a 20-year-old aging to 24 over 20 years wouldn't be obvious. But watching an infant aging to 4 over 20 years - or 2 over 10 years - certainly would. That's why I question your theory. (I don't reject it, but I question it.) It would be one thing if Baum's description of non-aging had appeared in OZMA or even EMERALD CITY, but it came in TIN WOODMAN, when presumably he or his informant had had well over a decade to observe the process. Earl's theory that parents controlled their children's aging at least explains that aspect of it (though why any parent would _want_ to keep an infant an infant is beyond me - they're adorable, but they're high-maintenance, and I'd much rather let them get up to 3-4 years old before slowing anything down). David Hulan ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:42:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-27-97 Scott Reynolds: There was more than one hourglass used in the MGM movie. One of them, I know, is in the hands of a California collector. I'm not sure if he wants his name given out, so forgive me if I don't do so, but the hourglass is surprisingly light (balsa wood!) and in very good shape. Tyler: When/if you get a new copy of _Laughing Dragon_, may we at IWOC hold you to your vow of giving away your present copy?! We could always use it at auction! --R. ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 19:28:31 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (R. M. Atticus Gannaway) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-27-97 BOB SPARK: >I would >also like to urge Atticus to reconsider his decision (if he has so >decided) to leave this forum. For the time that I have been subscribed >he has been an asset. I'm sure that we can move on to more civilized >discourse. thank you. i'm sure we CAN move on to more civilized discourse (start using utensils for dis course? uh oh, jeremy's influence!). i'm still here! DAVID H.: >Atticus: >We here on the Digest are, alas, human beings. Most of us try to be mild >and placid in our comments, but there will be occasional times when one >or another will get a bit uptight and produce a stressed-out post. >Compared to any other similar group I've ever encountered, however, this >isn't at all an acrimonious one. If it's too much for you, then so, >probably, is the Internet. Pity if so, because I've enjoyed your posts. >(I enjoyed Eric G's as well, but once I recognized his problem I knew >he'd be gone pretty soon.) again, thank you. i'd just like to add that i'm certainly familiar with the internet and am aware that this newsgroup is, in comparison, "not at all acrimonious." all i'm saying is i've seen things on here that disturbed me purely because this is OZ. i'm not sure which of the subscribers discovered oz as an adult or in what context, but i grew up with these books and have loved them ever since i can remember. i always took oz and its spirit very seriously; the books gave me many happy hours and remind me of a time when i was innocent, a state of being i've regrettably lost, as we all do. my transition to adulthood has, perhaps, been more painful than some, and i guess that's ultimately why i am so unsettled by recent goings-on. unless things get markedly worse, i can't see why i'd leave the digest, and i have of course noted the recent improvement. i'm very glad about that. LAUGHING DRAGON AND THE QUESTION OF $ NATE: regarding your "inflation study," you left out the most important factor of price: who sells you the book. i bought mine in '94 or '95, in VG to VG+ condition (it really is in great shape) for $125--and the nice dealer knocked $20 off just because i asked. incidentally, i called robin olderman to describe the condition and ask her whether the price was fair. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP, ROBIN! i appreciate it. i'm not sure whether i got a really good deal or not. . .sounds like i might have. TYLER: how did your copy fall apart? did the dragon on the cover start laughing too hard? ;) no longer disgruntled, atticus * * * "Catherine thought, perhaps if we travel together, I shall get to know them at last, for so far I have been all wrong, and they have turned out different to what I thought. How is one to know what people are like? . . . Perhaps one can never know; perhaps people are uncapturable, and slip away like water from one's hand, changing all the time." ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:11:19 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 4-27-97 Herm: Thanks for the info on Easton Press Oz books. I had never heard of them. Chris D.: As your problem with Peter Glassman is a personal one, why not address your comments directly to him, rather than posting them on the Digest? I applaud Books of Wonder and Peter Glassman as I do you, and Buckethead Enterprises of Oz for your contributions and efforts to keep Oz alive for all of us, but do not think this forum is the place to air your grievances. I have always looked forward to the Digest each day, but lately, with a degree of apprehension. Dick ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:01:55 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Earl: I really liked your analysis of young children aging. This could be a feedback loop, assuming that the child wants to grow up. The more he desires to age, the more he matures, and thus ages even more. I am currently assuming that an Ozite may choose to age at any rate from zero to normal. In other words, you can't age faster than one year in one year, although you can stop for as long as you like. --Tyler Jones ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:37:32 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-26-97 Herm Bieber wrote: >In medieval England witches were definitely burned at the stake. But if they >confessed and repented, they were granted the "mercy" of strangulation. This >was graphically described in Scott's Ivanhoe and many other references. I'm sorry, but novels written over 600 years after the supposed "fact" don't count as "references". "Ivanhoe" is full of historical blunders: for example, in actual fact, Richard I exiled all Jews from England at the beginning of his reign (about all that can be said in his defense is that he seems to have done it mainly in order to stop antisemitic riots), and he never displayed any particular animosity toward the Templars. It's a lovely yarn, and I happen to be quite fond of Sir Arthur Sullivan's operatic version, but it is not a work of serious historical scholarship. Tim Allison wrote: >...books which contain both >children's fantasy and political satire-two other possibilities being >Alice in Wonderland and Gulliver's Travels. There is a certain amount of social satire in the Alice books, and a passage or two that can be related to the internal "politics" of Oxford University, but precious little. As for "Gulliver's Travels", it is no more "children's fantasy" than is "Der Ring der Nibelungen". >Anyway, I wondered if someone who >knows more about these references in the Oz books.... There is a fairly clear and coherent (albeit naif) satire of feminism in "Land", of course, but little else, apart from a general attitude that politicians, other than quasi-divinely elected monarchs, are pompous, self-important windbags (if male) or ineffectual at best and parasitic at worst (if female). At the very end of the Baum canon, there is a somewhat nastier picture of a "dictator", and it is generally agreed that the revolt of the animals in "The Magic of Oz" is a satire of the Russian Revolution, although if taken seriously, it is hard to see just what this "satire" is saying; is Baum dismissing proletarian claims by an appeal to natural hierarchy (not very "American")? is he blaming the Revolution on what would later be called "outside agitators" (I don't believe very many Americans of the time regarded the Bolshevists as "un-Russian")? perhaps, in the end, he may have been trying to ask "Cui bono?", but I really think "satire" may be too grand a word to use here. Anyway, whatever you do, please don't bring up the old canard about "Wizard" being a populist parable. Repeat after me: "It's an urban myth. It's an urban myth. It's an urban myth...." // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:57:21 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: For Ozzy Digest >The Easton Press printings of the first four Oz titles appear to have >been produced under license from Morrow. They have fairly elaborately >decorated leather bindings (die-stamped with designs derived from Denslow= >and Neill). When I last checked they were still available from Easton. Actually, Easton offered the first six Oz titles in leather. The original issue price was around $45 to $50 with shipping. I know this because I paid significantly more for my set. This all started when I saw a copy of Easton's Wizard (which I still feel is the best edition of Wizard I've seen - if not the most accurate). I called Easton to ask about the six book set, and was told the books are currently out of print (this was last year). After paying too much for a set on the secondary market, I received a large box from Easton containing a set at the original price. It seemed that someone at Easton scrounged up a set from somewhere. It pained me to return the books, but I knew I couldn't return the overpriced set. The books are actually quite nice. All six are licensed from Morrow, and all have Peter Glassman's afterwards intact. They are arguably a little more accurate than the BoW editions, in that the original advertisements and title pages have been left intact. They are basically the BoW editions with gilt edges, better paper, fancy bindings, and less alteration of the advertisement and title pages. They also look very nice on the shelf, with the spine ornaments forming a nice arch when all six books are placed together. The Easton Oz set is a good set for someone who likes to look at books on the shelf. For reading and showing Oz to friends, etc., I'd still choose the BoW editions, as they are more representative of the original books (the Easton leather bindings are interpretations of the original artwork). Mike Denio ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:47:07 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-26-97 Bob Spark: I've seen the video collection selling at Best Buy for $26. Scott ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:24:04 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Bob Spark: Well, I think Baum's silent films are very well worth getting. They're not quite complete, which is unfortunate, but they're fascinating as a view into the early days of movie making and showing Baum's ideas about dramatizing his stories. The Semon/Hardy "Wizard" is technically a lot more advanced, and fairly amusing on its own terms, but it is not particularly good as an adaptation. The package is probably a pretty good deal (I don't recall how the three films have been priced separately), although getting just the Baum films might make sense. Aaron Adelman: It looks as if the speculation is correct that your Hebrew-character signature throws Dave's distribution of the Digest into hexadecimal mode. (4/26 Digest without your full signature line is clear; 4/27 with it is hexed.) The hexes do mean for me either some difficulty reading the whole Digest or spending a fairish amount of time de-hexing it. So -- please, could you (and others using "special characters") try to leave out the =F3 part of your signature? Chris Dulabone: Some further thoughts about various editions and scholarly needs. For many scholarly purposes, no modern edition will do -- original editions (first, last issued during the author's lifetime, both of these, or even all) are necessary. For some scholarly purposes, Books of Wonder is by far the best choice -- when good reproduction of the artwork is important. For many scholarly purposes, any good reading copy will do (if the edition itself, or Steve Teller's review in the "Baum Bugle" has alerted you to the changes to watch out for). And for scholarly purposes where the artwork is unimportant, but the dumb racist jokes are important, editions with close reproduction of the text are available. (In my list of options, I mentioned the possibility of getting a scholarly outfit to do b&w facsimile. Actually, there are two popular editions, marketed as inexpensive editions for adults, which include the "Patchwork" dumb- racist-jokes, but have poor reproduction of the art, the Dover and Ballantine copies. As Peter Glassman points out, the Dover edition is probably still in print. The Ballantine is out of print, but fairly easy to find second-hand.) So it seems to me that if you're really talking scholarship, you should be hanging on to your BoW edition and combining it with a Dover or Ballantine copy, and not complaining because neither one is the same thing as having a copy of the first edition. Incidentally, I'm puzzled that you object to the BoW editions other than "Patchwork," where Peter Glassman said the changes were to correct typos. Again, for some scholarly purposes, having the typos available is important, but, in those cases, you pretty much have to have original editions (although a scholarly facsimile edition may do). Most of the time, though, typos are just a nuisance for scholars, as for regular readers, and normal scholarly editions (as opposed to facsimiles) do in fact correct obvious typos, with nothing more than a notation, "Obvious typographical errors have been silently corrected." Typos are important, basically, only in terms of studying publishing history, but for studying the work the author intended they are a distracting irrelevance. The question of leaving out dumb racist jokes is a real issue when you're thinking in scholarly terms -- but the question of correcting typos is mostly not an issue at all (and where it is an issue, even facsimiles are likely to be inadequate, and scholarship simply requires access to the originals). I think perhaps you're confusing "correcting typos" (i.e., obvious typos) and "making emendations," which is where an editor thinks a bit of text is really a typo, although there is no obvious correction, and undertakes to supply the correction. Editors who make emendations really do need to include footnotes to explain the reasons for thinking that "A table of green fields" cannot be correct and that "He babbled of green fields" is a likely correction. (It's so likely that pretty much every performance of "Henry V" you see will have it, but it's not obvious.) If you can find places where Books of Wonder has been making emendations without acknowledgement, then that's a serious issue in scholarly terms, but I don't think they have -- they've just been correcting obvious typos. Ruth Berman ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:07:01 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-27-97 Laughing Dragon of Oz: I paid $50 for my copy about 20 years ago. I've only read it once and don't remember much about it. My copy was in good condition at the time, but is probably now in fair condition simply from handling it that one time. Very fragile! -- Craig Noble ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:44:12 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: Oz Scrappiness I apologize for accusing Chris of insulting Peter and everybody else on the list with his "shallow, self-promoting drivel that [he] didn't have the civility to sign." (Though how he could be self-promoting without signing his name was a paradox that didn't occur to me while I was over-reacting uncivilly to his over-reaction in rashly written e-mail.) I really should have tried to ignore the post, just as I try to ignore material that really doesn't match my standards when I'm shopping for Ozzy material. I've even bought a Tedrow book in a second hand store to make sure nobody else suffers from it. I know what I don't like, and Chris is entitled to not like what Peter did. Peter is trying very hard to make sure that we greet the new century with thousands of widely distributed, readily available, beautiful reading editions of work that has suffered from librarians looking for reasons to ban it for years. Peter made changes that he felt he had to. I think that the way he changed Columbia Victor Edison's song with better grammar, "coal-black" to "cross-eyed" did as much harm as (questionable) good. Who cares what I think? This is a non-issue. My opinion didn't stop me from buying the otherwise beautiful book, and putting it near the four other versions of the book that I own. I haven't lost any sleep over this stuff, and have stated my opinion to the 5 or 6 people on the planet who have the slightest interest. If Chris would've done it differently, all he's got to do is convince somebody with the capital to print and promote true fascimiles, and boy, if he prints _Ozma of Oz_, he'd bloody well better misregister by a couple of inches some of the full page illos or I'll demand punitive damages in my civil suit for restitution. Would that be a fascimile, or a forgery? Only Peter could make the call he did, and he's earned the right to make it, the opinions of a few fanatics be damned. He's demonstrated admirable success in the highly competitive field of publishing, and has shared with us on the Digest many of the details of the cold realities of marketing and publicity that are seldom under the control of a publisher working within a larger corporate structure. I am unaware of higher standards being applied to the publication and wide distribution of Baum's work since the days of Reilly and Britton. The originals didn't contain Peter's afterwords, I could read much more from him. The prefaces and afterwords in the IWOC publications are reason alone for me to buy them, also. It's bad enough when you have to worry 'bout the 'vangel'cals saying bad things about Glinda, as if a good witch like Glinda could be bad for anybody but bad folks. But the Evangelicals would be happy to sieze on Political Correctness to win a battle, even if they share the racist views they would publicly decry to support their nefarious ends. I'm afraid of the day when books with the word "queer" in them will be banned by surfwatch or the V chip. I was a signator to the CDA lawsuit; though not an initial plaintiff, I don't want the government telling me what words in which order I can use, nor what images are ok or not. I trust Peter's conscience more that Newt's, Bill's Al's or Jesse's. So I flew off the handle when, after multiple pleas from anybody who had anything to say about this stuff, and after nearly a year of public silence on the matter, Peter very graciously and compellingly laid Scrapsgate to rest (again) so we could move on, the Buckethead felt compelled to hork up that lovely warted toad of a post for us all to admire. What made it worse, was that it was offered in the context of just about everybody having just opined that they really had swallowed as much toad as they could imagine trying to stomach ever again, no more toad please, I believe I've had sufficient, enough with the toad already, I'm quite certain that if I see another toad, I shall erupt with an Egyptian plague of Biblical proportions, none for me thanks. So I am sorry for having used this bandwidth to further examine the true inner nature and full meaning of this now much prolonged topic of feminist toad pressing. Irony is lost, parody is taken literally, context is never preserved, and some people will never digest the simplest concepts no matter how small the bytes are sliced. Gee, I suppose this really is the end of the world. I guess I'll just try to ignore the stuff that annoys me, and stop goading and razzing folks with whom I disagree. Mostly. I didn't sign on to be a cop, or a good example, but I think we're all trying to do the best we can, and should extend the benefit of the doubt to those whose consciences and ideals lead them to a different conclusion than ours might have. I know Annakin Skywalker thought he was following the zeit geist (that's spirit of the age, for all us heathens) when he joined the empire, but that's just because Luke wasn't around yet to set him straight. Marketroids were Apple's downfall, and marketroids used the term fascimile when Peter said they shouldn't have. Never attribute to malefic conspiracy that which can readily be explained by stupidity. And take two aspirin and buy BOW's _The Scarecrow of Oz_, someday that'll be a valuable collectors' item too. Ken Cope Ones & Zeroes SurReal Estate pinhead@ozcot.com ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:47:08 +0000 From: "Estelle E. Klein" Subject: oz cookie cutters Someone made mention of oz flags and cookie cutters made by munchkin Jerry Mendel. Has anyone seen these- if so, can you describe. We have a "home made", very sturdy gauge type cookie cutter with the oz symbol obtained from a long time, now deceased collecter, and was wondering where it came from. Thanks estelle ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:52:04 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz Does anyone on the Digest know the whereabouts of Greg Gick? It seems that people are still not getting their copies of Bungle and the Magic Lantern of Oz, so I am now assuming that the address I had for him is old. Maybe he has a new address since he left college? Or, can anyone tell me that you HAVE received a Bungle in the past several months? ======================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 29, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:31:25 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Toady's Oz Gruels David >No, my copy of THE PURPLE DRAGON doesn't have any signatures in it, though I imagine I could get both Kirk's and Greene's easily enough if I wanted to. Baum's, I admit, would be more difficult... Does anyone have a copy of PD with signatures? In particular Baum's? This is curiouser and curiouser? Herm >On the Laughing Dragon: While the book was printed in the style of the Big Little Books, it was never officially in this Series. It probably had a much smaller press run than most BLBs, but the main reason for its rarity is the fact that most of the copies were recalled because of a copyright dispute between Whitman and Reilly and Lee. I knew about the dispute but was unaware there had been a recall. Do you know how big the press run was? Oh, and LD was in the Whitman 1100 Series of Big Little Books. It was number 1126. Tyler - Yes - Macintosh Performa 550 currently. I couldn't stand the built in Claris software so I use Microsoft Word and Excel. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:07:26 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-28-97 Steve: I was able to read the text of LAUGHING DRAGON without the illustrations because my unnamed benefactor sent me a typescript of the text - with descriptions of what was in the illustrations, but no illustrations. 675 miles isn't a bad drive with two people to share the driving - my wife and I averaged nearly 800 miles a day for three days when we drove from San Francisco to Chicago last year - but it's not something I'd want to do alone, and since Marcia isn't interested in Oz, and Tulsa isn't exactly a Tourist Mecca, I think I'll look for cheap air fares... I didn't attend my first Oz convention after I joined the IWOC until I'd been a member for 9 years, just like Scott (if he makes this year's Ozmopolitan). I'd been to three of the early Winkie conventions back in the '60s, but I wasn't an IWOC member at the time. Bob: How Tik-Tok knew what Evoldo did after locking him up: clearly Smith and Tinker gave his brain some kind of limited clairvoyance. (It must have been pretty limited or he could have told which ornaments were the enchanted Ozites and Evites.) And Neill's illustrations, as I have said repeatedly recently, frequently contradict the text; the one you mention is just one more. Your other two points I quite agree with. Another one that always bothers me whenever Tik-Tok is on stage is that, while I can believe that a key can do an adequate job of winding up his thinking (which probably doesn't use up a lot more energy than the works of an ordinary clock - and an ordinary clock can run for 8 days on a winding that's only moderately tedious), and can conceive of its being able to run his speech for a while, especially if he doesn't talk a lot, there's no way that a little girl is going to be able to crank a key around enough times to wind up a spring that would run his action more than a couple of minutes at the outside. I always wanted to see a big crank that gave enough mechanical advantage that it was believable for Dorothy to wind him up enough to walk several miles after a fight with the Wheelers. Even that's unlikely in a real world, but one can make liberal allowances for magic. Oh, and the "things on either side of Ozma's head" are giant poppies. Neill put them there in almost (but not quite) all his illustrations that showed Ozma (including the three in LAND), although they're never mentioned in the text of any of the FF. As to whether they had anything to do with Leia's hairdo in STAR WARS, you'd have to ask George Lucas about that, unless someone already knows he's been asked the question and what the answer was. Atticus: I, too, have loved the Oz books for pretty much as long as I can remember. (I have some memories from earlier ages, but by the time I have reasonably extensive memories I was an Oz fan - age six or so.) But, possibly because of the perspective that 60 years on the planet gives, acrimony, even associated with Oz, doesn't disturb me much. At least, at the level we've ever seen on the Digest; I can imagine something that would disturb me. But I have considerable faith that Dave wouldn't include a post of that intensity on the Digest in the first place. The price of any used book is highly variable, depending on the dealer and the buyer. I have, however, done an inflation-adjusted calculation on the prices of new hardcover and paperback books since the early '50s, and they've gone up at a considerably faster clip than the CPI. If book prices had only followed the CPI, the average mass-market PB now would be going for about $2.75 and the average hardcover for about $11, vs. the $6 and $22 or so that's typical. This isn't that hard to explain, though. Books are relatively low-tech - improvements in technology have done something, but not a lot, to hold prices down. The CPI is strongly influenced by a lot of items whose prices are held down by improvements in technology. I do _not_ believe that book publishers are gouging the public - just that their costs have tended to rise faster than those for most items. (Not nearly as fast as college tuition, though - and I don't really think that colleges are gouging, either. The college I went to charged $500 a year in tuition for the 1954-55 school year. Its current tuition is more like $20,000 a year, IIRC.) John K.: Richard I may have tried to expel all the Jews from England at the beginning of his reign, but it wasn't very effective; the main expulsion, that did work, was by Edward I nearly two centuries later. (Edward I was also, IIRC, the one who was really down on the Templars.) By whom is it "generally agreed" that the revolt of the beasts in MAGIC is a parody of the Russian Revolution? I see hardly any parallels, myself. (But maybe this discussion should await the time when MAGIC is the BCF.) I don't think the theory that WIZARD is a populist parable fits the usual definition of an "urban legend." It's an example (if not an unusual one) of silly litcrit, but it's traceable to a very specific point of origin; the usual definition of "urban legend" that I've seen included a lack of evidence of its point of origin (just as is the case of real legends - Robin Hood is a legend; Ivanhoe isn't). Ken C.: I wouldn't have changed "coal-black Lulu" to "cross-eyed Lulu" if I'd been editing; if I decided that "coal-black" would be sufficiently offensive to African-Americans it needed changing, I think I'd have changed it to "corn-fed", which at least doesn't remove the insult to African-Americans by transferring it to those afflicted with strabismus. (However, what's the grammatical problem?) Chris D.: I still haven't received the copy of BUNGLE AND THE MAGIC LANTERN that I ordered back in...January, I think it was. If Greg Gick has disappeared, I can understand why. I hope you can find him - if he was in college, don't you have his parents' address? If so, I suppose you've already tried a note to them with a SASE asking for his current address. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:29:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-28-97 Bob S.: Tiktok tells us "The ir-on gi-ant...was made for the Nome King by Smith & Tinker, who made me, and his du-ty is to keep folks from find-ing the un-der-ground pal-ace." The Nome King may have commissioned the inventors to make that specific machine (the giant), not to make a keeping- folks-from finding-the-palace machine. I have more faith in Smith & Tinker than to believe that the whole lame idea was theirs. As for how Tiktok knew about the rest of Evoldo's story, that always has bugged me, too. Most illos of the Nomes show them as squat. If you think Neill goofed in that picture, check out the one where the Scarecrow throws the egg at Roquat. The Tin Woodman is in the background. WRONG! He's supposed to still be transformed at that point. I'm not touching the egg question with a 10-foot yolk. No one has ever explained it away to my satisfaction. The "Things" on each side of Ozma's head are poppies and, yes, they probably do have something to do with Princess Leia, if you accept the theory that Chewy=C.Lion, etc. Estelle: The cookie cutter sold at auctions looked like tin. Z within O logo. Quite sturdy and usually commanded a rather high price. Susan Hall gets good cookies out of it. I don't, since I have difficulty getting the dough out of the cutter. Later models of the cutter had a coupla holes to solve that problem. I hope you have one of the improved models. Ken and Chris: Peace, Love, and Oz. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 00:01:06 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (R. M. Atticus Gannaway) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-28-97 CHRIS: >Atty: >The other day I posted something in a heated moment that reflected a >momentary anger. I tried to clarify yesterday, but my clarification seems to >have still upset a lot of you. I have always had a hot temper and it >sometimes gets out of control. This coupled with the established fact that I >can't open my mouth without inserting my foot can cause a lot of trouble for >people around me. i've known you for eight years now and consider you to be a valued friend. you've done more than anyone else to encourage me to write, and who's to say whether i wouldn't have given up on that if not for you? just have ozma proofread your emails before you send them. love ya, guy! >Hence, if one of us should leave the Digest, it should NOT >be you. You are a nice person. thanks, i try. KEN COPE: >I'm afraid of the day when books with the word "queer" in them >will be banned by surfwatch or the V chip. I was a signator to the >CDA lawsuit; though not an initial plaintiff, I don't want the >government telling me what words in which order I can use, nor what >images are ok or not. I trust Peter's conscience more that Newt's, >Bill's Al's or Jesse's. trust me, this will never happen. not only is "queer" an intra-homosexual community "term of endearment" (though not one i ever use), but it has a valid "mainstream" usage. i hate to think of the following words in the "other" context, but we still refer to chinks in walls and dikes in Amsterdam with little uproar. not to worry, lexicographers aren't thinking THAT queerly nowadays. OZMA: are we talking about this book yet? it was the first oz book i read besides _wizard_, back when i was six or seven. this was right about when _return to oz_ came out, and i seem to recall being a bit confused about discrepancies. it all seemed rather queer to me. okay, i'll quit it. atty * * * "Catherine thought, perhaps if we travel together, I shall get to know them at last, for so far I have been all wrong, and they have turned out different to what I thought. How is one to know what people are like? . . . Perhaps one can never know; perhaps people are uncapturable, and slip away like water from one's hand, changing all the time." ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 23:04:49 -0700 From: Tom Walker Subject: Publishing my OZ book Hey there! I am a huge OZ fan. I have been reading the OZ books put out by Del Rey, and I am on #13 which I was told by my local bookstore who carries this series of 14 Baum books, that they would order one, but then told me that the publisher may or may not print any more. Along with reading these books over the last year, I have started writting my own OZ book, and I belong to the royal club of OZ fan club. Through them, I was told that Books of Wonder may publish the book but it first has to be written and then sent to them. I read on the web somewhere about the Ozzy Digest publishing books. I am writting you on my dads computer. I should have mine up and running within a week or so when I get my own place. If you can answer these two items I have mentioned by writting me, I would appriciate it very much. My name is Tom, and you can address your letter to: Tom Walker P.O. Box 15936 San Diego, CA 92115 ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:36:41 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Illustrations In the 4/24 Digest, Tyler Jones says <... pictures are rarely an accurate representation of what is exactly going on in a story. Sometimes, illos drawn many years before or after the story are included (such as Eric Shadower's pics for _Wicked Witch_).> It would seem that the accuracy of story illustrations depend in large part on the degree of collaboration between the artist and the author. When the two collaborate and the illustrator puts something into a picture that is not in the text, then either the author does not care about that detail or he agrees as to its accuracy to the "true" story behind the text. I do not think that we should dismiss the extra details in the pictures without consideration of the picture production circumstances. In this regard, Shanower and _The Wicked Witch_ is not a good example of illustrations to ignore, despite the fact that the pictures were drawn decades after the story was first written. IIRC, Eric Shanower and Rachel Cosgrove Payes worked very closely to produce this beautiful book. Payes agrees strongly with the way her story was illustrated. (Would that more books were treated similarly!) Can any correspondents here comment on the degree to which Neill worked with Baum and with Thompson to illustrate those many royal histories? Speaking of illustrations not mentioned in the text, look at _The Washington Post Magazine_ from Sunday, 4/27. The front cover and an interior illustration show a painted cabinet from the Chevy Chase, MD home of Ellen and Stephen Mautner. Not mentioned in the text are the 28 Riley & Lee Oz books lined up across the top of the cabinet. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:48:56 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Robin: I too, even as a tiny child, was flabbergasted to see stately, dignified, self-possessed Glinda metamorphosed into ditzy Billie Burke looking like some nightmarish homecoming queen with her celluloid crown, leg-o'-mutton sleeves, acres of crinolines, and that el-cheapo wand with the star at the point. Billie Burke herself commented that she felt like a fugitive from some German opera in that outfit (but what German opera??). I agree that it would have been more appropriate for Glinda to arrive in her chariot, but the bubble was a much less expensive special effect--they simply panned in on a silver sphere against a blue background and then superimposed that shot on the Munchkinland landscape, with Glinda appearing in a dissolve-in on the close-up of the ball. Speaking of opera: Several years ago the Dallas Opera put on a production of Puccini's _Turandot_. Early in Act I an enormous opalescent pearl was rolled onstage and opened up to reveal the title figure in all her resplendence. In a lull in the music a child's voice piped up from the audience: "LOOK!! It's Glinda!" On _Ozma_: 1) Has there ever been a more succinct depiction of the instability of the narcissistic personality than Langwidere's mirrored chamber with the 30 heads that she changes out from one day to the next? I notice also in the illustration of these thirty heads (p. 89) that Neill impudently included a couple of heads that don't exactly qualify as "beautiful," and one of them, in a wonderful twist of fate, bears more than a passing resemblance to Margaret Hamilton. 2) Like Joyce, I find it very unfortunate that the sensible, plain-talking Dorothy of _WWoO_ reverts here to Baby Snooksisms (as Gore Vidal put it) like "'zactly" and "drea'ful." You have to hand it to Baum, though: at least he is gender-neutral with these cutesy effects. Button-Bright, in _Road_, has even more trouble with big words than Dorothy. As David Hulan remarked, _Ozma_ marks the beginning of a second phase in Baum's Oz books, and these speech mannerisms are one indication of the change in style. David: I'd be interested in knowing what other features that you see as characteristic of the second phase. There definitely is a shift here. 3) One of the many appealing things about Baum's imagination, for me, is the way he drops unexpected bits of corporate America into the fantasy world of Baumgea. Take Tiktok--who comes equipped with a printed card that evokes all the trappings of entrepeneurial capitalism: patent protection (in fine print yet!), advertising slogans such as "extra-responsive" and "our special clock-work attachment" (not to mention Tiktok's later reference to his "improved steel brains")--all of which suggests, improbably, the existence of a lively, highly competitive mechanical-man industry in the land of Ev! The label on the bottle of Dr. Nikidik's "celebrated wishing pills" is another example of this wonderfully daffy referencing of American marketing ploys. 4) (Who's in charge of continuity?) As anyone noticed the way Dorothy's stockings keep alternating between white and blue in the color plates? 5) At the risk of once again being labeled a city-boy (remember the discussion of the excretory habits of grasshoppers back in September?), I wonder if anyone can clarify for me that strange exchange between Dorothy and Billina on page 214--the discussion of whether or not a Kansas farmer would call Billina a chicken or a hen. Was "chicken" the generic word for poultry? --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:27:47 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: For Digest >Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:57:21 -0500 >From: Mike Denio >Subject: For Ozzy Digest > >They are basically the BoW editions >with gilt edges, better paper, fancy bindings, and less alteration of the >advertisement and title pages. Oops. Looks like I put my foot in my mouth. I checked last night, and found that the Easton press books (except for Wizard) do not contain the original publisher ads. The ad pages are blank. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 97 09:45:49 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things The _Ozma_ discussion officially began yesterday, but we seem to be still in transition... As has been already mentioned, the "big things" are Ozma's poppies, as much Ozma's "trademark" as the stovepipe hat is Lincoln's, the cigar is Churchill's and the white turtleneck is Jerry Brown's. :) We also see in _Ozma of Oz_ the poppies' long stems that I always worry got in her way...She seems to have cut them short in later years for that very reason. One thing I've always wondered -- Since they're never mentioned at all in any FF text, how do we for certain that they *are* poppies, or that she *always* wears poppies, and doesn't also don hybiscus or elysium for variety? I agree heartily with Gordon about Billie Burke's "ditzy" portrayal of Glinda...She seems to be the most maligned of all Ozians (by both MGM and _Wicked_)... Jellia: At parties, Glinda does Billie Burke imitiations to give us all a good laugh. :) FWIW, I don't go for these Oz-_Star Wars_ parallels that attempt to be drawn -- It seems to be that you could just as easily draw an Oz-_Red Dwarf_ parallel, i.e.: Lister = Dorothy Rimmer = Scarecrow Kryten = Tin Man Cat = Cowardly Lion Holly = Glinda/Wizard And you no doubt thought the *Star Wars* parallel seemed a bit forced! :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 30, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:59:22 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-28-97 Bob--George Lucas did once say her hair was based on Ozma's poppies. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:30:09 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-29-97 Hi there, I would like to second Gordon's question about chickens and hens. I thought that possibly the terms have changed somewhat in meaning through the years. Maybe not. At any rate I have always assumed that hens, roosters, and chicks (not to mention capons, etc.) could all be referred to as chickens. As a parallel (and totally off the point) when are bovine "cows" and when can they be called "cattle"? Gordon, probably we are both "city-boys", Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:51:14 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Bear: I stand corrected on LD being in the BLB series. Didn't have a copy on hand, but I recall most BLBs are prominently labled "Big Little Book" on the cover, and that Laughing Dragon is not. It is of course in BLB format. As to press runs, and percent recalled, I have no idea. Perhaps Michael Hearn would know. He is probably the best expert on Oz publication matters. He's at 212+580-9126 (no e-mail!). Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:58:19 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Dave - FWIW, the =20s hex is back. Bob Spark - FWIW, it is a mistake to promise things over which you have no control. Atticus - You should try what many of us have.....REFUSE to grow up! :) Since several were apparently off-line when I posted this in early April, here it is again. For anyone who missed the Oz silent movies: Critic's Choice Video now has them on sale. $26.77 for the four including "His Majesty The Scarecrow of Oz (59 min), "The Patchwork Girl of Oz (67 min), The Magic Cloak of Oz (40 min), all folmed in 1914 and the first film version of "The Wizard of Oz" (1925) starring Oliver Hardy as the Scarecrow. Four cassettes in a slipcase. The phone number is 1-800-367-7765 and the item number is AGFAL000335. Happy viewing. Frugally, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:09:37 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest On Baum's signature: My copies of "The Purple Dragon" all bear the "Baum" signature and this is indeed a facimile. Baum's lefty signature is very distinctive, and there are (were?) also several rubber stamps around with his signature. These were used by his wife, Maud Baum, to answer letters kids wrote in about Ozian matters AFTER FRANK HAD ALREADY DIED. After all, Reilly and Lee didn't want to ruin a good thing, and (the dead) Baum was credited with writing Royal Book, even though it was done by Thompson. So if you find a letter to a child "signed" by Baum after he died, don't throw it away! Its from Maud. Estelle: The only OZ logo cookie cutters I have seen were made by Mendel. As Robin pointed out, there were two "editions", the earlier ones being closed, so that the OZ shaped dough on the inside was hard to remove, and the later one with an open design. Most of these were sold at Munchkin Conventions, but in some years Jerry made enough for Fred Meyer to take some to the other conventions. The same goes for the OZ flags. I will call Jerry to see if he is making any more these days. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:20:03 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls I keep hearing Ozma's ear-warmers called poppies. They sure look that way on p.116 and 258, even including the stems. However, every time I see them I think "Poppies, phooey! They don't even have a scent. Peonies would look better and smell nicer." Fragrantly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:52:38 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Laughing Dragon: If this is ever republished (or published for the first time) it should not be in the BLB format. While I can understand that many people would want it this way out of tradition, the fact is that the BLB format is very unstable and tends to fall apart. It would be far better to publish it in standard parperback format. While it won't look exactly like the original, it will better stand the test of time. Bob: The only answer I can come up with is that the King of Ev told Tik-Tok what he planned to do after he was locked up. Smith and Tinker may never envisioned a concerted large-scale effort to get to the Nome King's dominions. The sight of the giant could easily be enough to scare a lone person or two. Illos and text rarely match exactly, which is why many people do not count them for scholarly research (myself included, with rare exceptions). David: Clearly, there is no "smoking Magic Belt" to tell us which theory is correct. Let us play the Dilbert game: "What's more likely?" 1. Is it likely that Lurline did a thorough psychological study of the effects of non-aging over a period of centuries, then made a major alteration to the spell of enchantment after it finally all came together? 2. Or Is it likely that Baum simply made an error in judgement and perhaps did not observe very many children over long periods of time? Granted, the fact that Baum made his statement in _Tin Woodman_, thus giving him years of observation of Oz, makes an error on his part a little strange, but it could have happened that way. Of course, it's also posible that Lurline really did change the spell. After all, if you recognize the events events in _Lurline and the White Ravens in Oz_, Lurline enacted the spell rather quickly. She may not have given many of the details much thought at first. The effects of no againg at all, culminating in an alteration of the spell by Lurline, would make a fascinating Oz story. Robin: It's very possible that I'll keep my vow. If I can get a new copy of the story, with all of the text, I will have no use for the old one. Keep your fingers crossed. Perhaps the Baum family will relent and give Peter Glassman the go-ahead. John Kennedy: I would say that the "Wizard of Oz as a populist tale" and "The hanging man in the Tin Man scene" are the two great myths of our time. A pox on them! Ozma: Another change at this pahse is that large parts of the adventure occur outside of Oz. Not until _Patchwork Girl_ does an adventure take place exclusively in Oz. Ken Cope: Believe it or not, I care what you think. Issues are important, and they should be discussed. While we need not adopt the hostile attitude that pervails in some parts of the internet, people are bound to agree and disagree with each other on various items, and they will argue back and forth. This is a good thing, as it compells us to get to know Oz better, and I value your input as much as that of anybody else on the digest. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:18:05 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-29-97 Well AOL only hiccuped this time, I started getting the Digest again the 26th. I get it quite late in the day however, and will usually be following the discussions at a day's worth of a time lag, since it is no longer available for me to read over breakfast. I don't care for "coal-black-Lulu"="cross-eyed Lulu" either. Why not "Own true" Lulu? Or, better yet "True-blue Lulu" (it WAS the Munchkin country, after all)? All that was wanted was a two-sylable or compound adjective. (So much fun to argue these things long after the fact...) Gordon, the term "chicken" was used to refer to immature poultry (pullets and cockerels) rather than to adult hens and roosters. They might also be referred to by their ultimate destination (broilers, fryers, layers, stewing hens, etc.). Ozma: This one was my favorite of the Oz stories to which I had access as a child. (Not difficult, since the others either had story elements which made them less than altogether satisfactory - Land & DotWiz - or were missing pages.) It was also the one which marked a personal triumph in my having managed to reread it in two hours flat at about age ten or so. I still think this story flows very nicely. There are certainly small glitches in continuity, like Tik-Tok's knowlege of what happened after he was walled up. There are also some faintly silly jokes which I noticed far less at the time. (Along with Dorothy's suddenly "twee" diction.) Still, the main thing which strikes me is that while Ozma may be the title character, the book is not about her at all. The story, from beginning to end, is Dorothy's, and Dorothy's alone. Ozma, actually, is a difficult person to know. In more books than this, Baum keeps standing between her and the reader and fending us off with "explanations". Nor does she cover herself in glory in this tale. It is a far from minor flaw in the telling that, having succeeded in her intentions only through blind luck and the wits of others, and, more importantly, primarily through others who were NOT part of her hand-picked expedition, that she does not, within the hearing of the reader, ever admit, even privately, to having LEARNED anything. The temptation to resort to another facitious political "interpretation" of this story is not strong. Nor will I do one. But the invitation is far from absent. Ozma's comic-opera version of gunboat diplomacy is ludicrous. And the various parallels with the more naive interpretations of foreign policiy as it is summarized later is hard to overlook. As is the implicit assumption of cultural superiority evidenced by the whole Ozian party, upon no better grounds than that THEY live upon the surface of the earth while the nomes live under it. This jars upon the modern ear, and must be excused only through consideration of when the book actually was written. (The assumption of moral superiority is another matter, and one far more excusable.) BTW, it should come as no surprise to learn that I agree with David's essay regarding Ozma's reign, wherein he shows that this rescue expedition was recklessly planned and poorly executed. (One seriously wonders just what Glinda would have DONE had Billena not been fortuitiously eavesdropping and the party remained as enchanted bric-a-brack in the Nome King's halls. She couldn't -and wouldn't- have pretended to ignorance, with everything being faithfully recorded in the book of records.) Still, this is an enjoyable story, and Billena is a strikingly successful creation. She is unmistakably a hen in character and outlook, and one of the few "adult" characters (yes, there were others) which Baum ever sent to Oz who hadn't anything noticably peculiar about them. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 00:55:50 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Of Flags and Cookie Cutters: I have gotten thru to Jerry Mendel, and he informs that 1. He is not making any more OZ Flags and OZ cookie cutters. 2. That he still has some on hand, and plans to bring five (5) flags and two (2) cookie cutters for auction at the Munchkin Convention only. Eat your hearts out, Ozmopolitans and Winkies! Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:30:26 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-29-97 David G. Hulan wrote: >By whom is it "generally agreed" that the revolt of the beasts in MAGIC >is a parody of the Russian Revolution? I see hardly any parallels, >myself. I never thought so myself, actually, which is why I introduced it only to throw cold water on it, but it's a well established bit of "conventional wisdom" in the Oz-crit set. Of course, given the date of composition, I suppose it's hard to imagine that Baum could have written that part of the story without at least once reminding himself of the current news reports, but that hardly makes it necessarily an intentional parody. >I don't think the theory that WIZARD is a populist parable fits the >usual definition of an "urban legend." It's an example (if not an >unusual one) of silly litcrit, but it's traceable to a very specific >point of origin; the usual definition of "urban legend" that I've seen >included a lack of evidence of its point of origin (just as is the case >of real legends - Robin Hood is a legend; Ivanhoe isn't). Well, as I understand it, the specific point of origin was a teacher paedogogically using "Wizard" _as_ _if_ it were an allegory of populism (and if you don't mind dismissing auctorial intent, I suppose the "populist" reading works, at least in a superficial and mechanical way), and that that somehow mutated into the notion that Baum wrote it so. Dave Hardenbrook wrote: >One thing I've always wondered -- Since they're never mentioned at all in >any FF text, how do we for certain that they *are* poppies, or that she >*always* wears poppies, and doesn't also don hybiscus or elysium for >variety? Because poppies are Romantic High Art. I don't know why, but they are. (Of course given the tendencies of the _spaetromantik_ era in general, one explanation comes to mind....) It's one little Art Nouveau idiom that made it into post-Denslow Oz, somehow. It only occurs to me at this moment that they may have had an effect on the change in Ozma's apparent hair color: poppies make a much more dramatic effect against black hair than blonde. I think the question came up before, but I don't have a color-plate "Land"; is the blonde Ozma ever shown in color, with poppies (which appear only in the tailpiece in my B&W, a distinctly art-nouveau tailpiece dominated by a giant poppy)? >I agree heartily with Gordon about Billie Burke's "ditzy" portrayal >of Glinda...She seems to be the most maligned of all Ozians (by both >MGM and _Wicked_)... I don't think "ditzy" is quite the right word (although BB spent most of her later career doing "ditzy"); the character never says or does anything that is foolish or a non-sequitur. MGM's Glinda is clearly a figure of authority, drawn from both of Baum's characters, but then utterly diluted to an "acceptable" and "fairy-tale" degree of feminine power. Of course from a viewpoint of story construction, once the decision was made to combine the two characters they were faced with a problem; the GWN _must_ be a minor character, because she is introduced at the beginning of the story and is never seen again, but Glinda _must_ be a major character, because she single-handedly resolves the plot. Therefore, they needed a figure with great "charisma" who could nevertheless be dismissed and forgotten until brought back at the end; a desubstantiated mother figure is an obvious choice. It occurs to me now that Baum had presented them with a considerable problem. The meeting between Dorothy and the GWN reads well enough on paper, but presenting it in dramatic form in the same matter-of-fact tone that Baum uses, while bearing the burden of introducing the mind-shattering notion of a "good witch", would be a disaster. I would not venture to write the scene, unless in verse (and the thought of the MGM movie in pentameter is even more mind shattering). Making the character of the GWN much more overtly fantastical is one obvious approach. Or as Eleanor puts it, much more succinctly, "She says 'good witch', but she's costumed as a fairy godmother.... A few years in the future, she might as well be singing: 'Bibbity, bobbity, boo.'" // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:53:20 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Bob Spark: How Tik-Tok knew what the King of Ev did after locking him away -- possibly the King told him, "I'm going to drown this key in the sea and myself with it!" and when he never came back Tik-Tok assumed that he had done as planned. Gordon Birrell: One aspect of change from the first two Oz books to "Ozma" and several after would probably be in Baum's awareness that he had a series going. One difference that made was probably that he was beginning to wonder what was outside Oz -- because he enjoyed inventing geographies, and because he may have realized that he would sometimes want the freedom to write books in the series but set outside Oz (as "Ozma" mostly is), and because he may have realized that he would want to link his geographies together, although he didn't actually do it until two books later, in "Road." Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:52:24 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-29-97 I've been off-line for about a week because I had my computer upgraded with a bigger hard drive, modem, WIN 95, and so on. Almost one thousand dollars later I'm not so sure I'm sold on WIN 95. But then I need WIN 95 to run all the new software.... Oh well. Re: Peter H. comment on _Laughing Dragon_ suit: I didn't know other members of the Baum family were on Reilly & Lee's side in this matter. I find this interesting. What's the lowdown? Re: Easton Press editions (_Wiz_ thru _Emerald City_) The pamphlet I had at work didn't give the price. Since I personally didn't buy them, my price estimate may have been off. I usually don't like to buy the "instant" collectible (or collectable--Webster's says it can be spelled either way) stuff, either. But I have to admit, IMHO, these are the best editions of Oz books 1-6 that have been published to date. The only thing better they could have done was included a slipcase. Re: Bear's "Does anyone have a copy of PD with signatures? In particular Baum's? This is curiouser and curiouser?" Yes, I do. My copy was ordered through one of those inserts that come with the Bugle, many years ago. The order form said the book would be signed by Greene and Kirk, with a facsimile of Baum's bookplate and signature. Sincerely, Scott (still trying to figure out Windows 95) Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Apr 97 13:19:05 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things You mean Princess Leia *can* trace her heritage back to Ozma? So all those kids who called me a wimpo pervert freak for liking Oz better than Star Wars were getting some "Oziana" themselves without knowing it??? Was "good witch" really a "mind-shattering notion"? Were there no good witches before Baumgea rose from the Nonestic sea? I guess I'm more used to witches being good...I guess I consider Oz, Elizabeth Montgomery in _Bewitched_, and Hermone Gingold in _Winter of the Witch_ more part of my makeup than _Hansel and Gretel_, etc... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************