] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 1, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:20 -0600 (CST) From: gbirrell@post.cis.smu.edu (Gordon Birrell) Subject: Ozzy Digest That request from Tina Dewey (Notre Dame food services) for Oz-style foods got me thinking: In tribute to the colors of Oz, how about a marinated salad of roasted, peeled, and julienned red, green, yellow, and purple bell peppers, along with crumbled blue cheese? Add a sprinkling of poppy seeds for good measure. Serve on a sand-colored plate to emulate the Deadly Desert. Or alternatively: a parfait with layered slices of pear, kiwi, strawberry, and purple plum, topped with blueberries, whipped cream, and--why not?--brown sugar. I'm posting this to the Digest rather than to Tina Dewey, since these menu ideas are probably beyond the budget of a college dining hall, particularly the multi-hued peppers. -Gordon Birrell ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:19:21 -0700 (MST) From: estelle@usa.net (Estelle E. Klein) Subject: Oz posters Thanks for all the assistance on book repairs. How about posters- when considering hanging, should one just frame collectible posters as is, or have them professionally or otherwise drymounted and framed, or have them laminated and framed. Any concern about value? Any suggestions, please. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:29:11 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-28-07 Tyler: I just got into your website! I like it! Scott: I always wondered, myself, about the now-nonexistent GWN. Re Polychrome: Since she's an immortal, I don't think "making her look like a young woman" is going overboard. After all, she may be the equivalent of a much older woman in years, despite Baum's description. Re "sweeping a corpse [the WWW] out the door" and forgetting about it: if she's shrunk to nothing, I would see little point in keeping the rest of her around, personally. Tyler again: Well, now that we're on the subject of WIZARD, perhaps now's the time to revive the debate (regarding the all-too-easy melting of the WWW). Was it Baum's way of getting out of a tough situation without really having to resolve things carefully? I know my initial reason for bringing up the "God machine" tactic was some sort of attempt at humor, but it could actually relate well to our current Book of Focus. Herm: Obviously the shop you mention caters to the prince and not the pauper! Until next time, Jeremy Steadman ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:19:01 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-27-97 I DREAMT I DWELT IN EMERALD HALLS: I had a couple of comments on all these dreams: Firstly, do you think they're all coming from the mysterious "Kingdom of Dreams" on the Oz map? Or perhaps that's where you go when you have them. Jane: Why not summarize the discussion of dreams here (especially the popular "bookstore" dream) and ask the Gazetteers if they've ever had any Oz dreams they'd like to share? That will give you material for the future= as well. Jeremy: Hot damn! I thought I was the only one who ever had "The Director's Nightmare". All those clueless actors running around at dress rehearsal with their lines unmemorized, *totally unconcerned* that we were= about to open! Salute your mother from me as a kindred spirit. (I even had a "Stage Manager's Nightmare" once.) David, et al.: In DC Comics' "Sandman" series, Morpheus has a library consisting, IIRC, of "all the books that never were". (Or maybe it's "All= the unwritten books". Something like that.) When I die, I want a job in that library! I wonder if it has a film section by now. Neil Gaiman, "Sandman"'s creator, is a big Cabell fan, I believe. Douglass: Re-read the very end of the play ("The Actor's Nightmare"). Spelvin has more on the line than you think. -- Eleanor Kennedy ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:33:25 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Blue Mondays in Oz Nathan: Some weeks ago you asked if Monday used to be a traditional laundry day, and you were answered. ("Yes") I thought I'd expand on the answer a bit and tell you why. Laundry was a long, exhausting, tedious job before the invention of the electric washing machine, not to mention a hot one, having to stand over a= tub of boiling water to do the whites. The last thing you'd want to do after a day of laundry would be to stand over a hot (wood or coal) stove and make dinner. If you did laundry on Monday, you could make dinner quickly out of the leftovers of Sunday dinner, with the meat either served= sliced and cold, or chopped and fried as hash. Baked beans were a not-uncommon accompaniment, since they required time, but no attention. In the mid-1800's, and in large households, Monday was when you *started* the laundry, which took all week to finish. Read "Mrs. Beeton's Book of Household Management" for the grisly details. -- Eleanor ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:41:22 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Wizard of Oz Discussion I got stuck doing a massive project that kept me off-line for weeks, but it's over now and I've been spending= the whole of this past week catching up. Is it too late to get in on the "Wizard of Oz" discussion? No? Good! Ozzian Heights: The Munchkins' hats are described as being "a foot tall". Now, if we assume that the illustrations are drawn in correct proportion (I know, a dangerous assumption, but let's just assume it for the moment) then that would make the Munchkins and the GWN about 4 feet tall, which *is* about the size of a "well-grown child [for Dorothy's age, whatever that is]", and= definitely short for an adult. Since the Munchkins are "about the same size" as Dorothy, that would make her 3'10, or 4'. Comparing her to the other characters then, that would make the Tin Woodman and Scarecrow about 5', and the Soldier with the Green= Whiskers about 6', tall not only for Oz, but also for the U.S. at the time. = (Incidentally, the Wizard is depicted as only 4' tall, although he's more "normal-sized" in later books. If he was a midget, perhaps that's why he went into the entertainment field, first as a ventriloquist and then with the circus.) Ages and Ages: Dorothy thinks that the Munchkins are about as old as Uncle Henry, but the= GWN is "doubtless much older: her face was covered with wrinkles, her hair= was nearly white, and she walked rather stiffly." Now, most children tend= to define "old" as younger than an adult would. (That's an awkward sentence. Let me give an example: when I was 7 I informed my 18-year-old= sister that in a few years she would be 21 and "over the hill". Such is a= child's perception.) Let's assume for the sake of argument that the GWN appears to be 60. This would tend to make us place Henry and Em in their forties, perhaps Henry in his fifties. I think this is reasonable. 20 years spent farming the sort of harsh, gray "Kansas" that Baum describes would be enough to age anyone, and Baum makes it clear that Henry and Em are more worn than aged. I don't think there's any need for a "missing generation" here. Henry (or Em, whichever) could easily have been the older sibling of Dorothy's parent. Glinda's crown: I don't think it's as heavy as you think it is. There's a lot of empty space there, between the vertical metal bits, and that appears to be a feather on top. I'll grant you, though, that if those hanging bobs are solid jewels, they might be a bit heavy, but all the weight would be hanging down the sides, pulling the circlet down evenly. Miscellaneous: Has anyone else noticed Dorothy's unusual hairstyle? (Braided, but with no= fastening on the bottom, not even a ribbon. John says maybe she lost her hair ribbons and they couldn't afford to buy her new ones.) Does anyone else find it interesting that Dorothy's command to the Silver Shoes is "Take me home to Aunt Em!" Why not "Aunt Em and Uncle Henry"? Why not "home to Kansas"? Why put in any qualifier at all? Baum's first pun (Chapter 3): "'Good day,' said the Scarecrow in a rather= husky voice." Gordon: thanks for the description of the brown sugar experiment. That phrase always struck me, too. Sorry for the length of the post, but I had a lot of Ozzy messages pent up= waiting to come out. -- Eleanor Kennedy ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:05:37 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-28-07 A line was (obviously) missing in my last post. The last section was supposed to be about how many times Toto was used to move the book (WOZ) along. Ozzy Dreams: O.K., y'all, after about 50 years of Oz, I've finally had a dream with an Oz connection, and it's YOUR fault! And it was ridiculous. For some reason, my husband, older daughter, and I were tumbling down a long, steep, snow covered slope...fortunately, one with no trees or rocks, but dangerous. I grabbed my daughter, who was about 5 in the dream, and protected her in the circle of my arms. We barreled down that hill with Jeff whirling down ahead of us. Lee (daughter) and I finally stopped. Jeff was, somehow, stranded above us and needed rescuing. I instructed Lee to stay where she was while I tried to rescue Daddy. She kept trying to follow me anyway. No segue whatsoever before three tin men appeared, told me they'd save him for me because they= were hollow and could walk over the snow without breaking its crust.They= thenbroke into song. I remember thinking in the dream that the song was crummy= and that I could write a better one and being quite aggravated with them... why were they singing, anyway, when my husband needed a rescue and not a seranade! Very peculiar dream. My daughter is now 24. My younger daughter didn't appear at all in the dream. I never felt my husband was in= real danger. I did, however, fear for my child. Why the heck would I dream up a= singing trio of tin men? They didn't even act like Nick Chopper...more like the Keystone Cops. FWIW, the daughter in question is getting married this year. I guess I have some anxiety about the wedding. I can recognize elements of feeling things are out of my control and, if you know me at all, you know I'm a "control freak." But three singing tin men?! ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:21:07 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-28-97 Me: Tyler, I found your page today OK. But when I tried to find Chris D's, I couldn't, even though both of us are on AOL. Nathan: "Ipso facto" means, more or less, "by the fact itself," - in other words, once you believe whatever has been said previously, the rest follows. (For instance, if you believe what Rush Limbaugh says about Clinton, then ipso facto you'll believe what Bear says about him.) (Or, to be fair, if you believe what THE ECONOMIST says about Clinton, then ipso facto you'll believe what I say about him.) Scott H.: Hey, "Professor Woggle-bug of Oz" is -my- entry in the Centennial Contest (though, as I've said before, that's not its name as entered, since there are at least two of the preliminary judges reading this). Incidentally, is the identity of the third preliminary judge known? Just curious. I paid $105 for my copy of JOHN DOUGH AND THE CHERUB, back in about 1982, so I can't steer you to a cheap version. You haven't found anything Borders had and B&N didn't? I suppose some= Borders aren't carrying the ECP books, but all the ones I've checked have had them, and no B&N has. Bob: I doubt if your spare copy of LAND is worth anything much; I have a much better-condition copy from the early '40s that I also doubt would be worth anything much - though since it has sentimental value to me, I intend to keep it. Warren: Interesting. Could you tell us (or me, anyhow) where in THE VICOMTE DE BRAGELONNE that quote appears? I could check my translation to see how it compares with yours. (But since it would involve checking about 1800 pages, I'd rather have a hint as to where in the book it appears. Not by page, but by what's generally going on, and how far from the beginning it happens.) Herm: Prince and the Pauper in San Diego is one of those bookshops that has a lot of seriously collectible stuff, but at a price that's only attractive if you have a lot of money and not a lot of patience. (I bought the last couple of Rick Brant books I wanted for my collection there, for instance - since even P&P didn't think they were worth more than $20 or so. But their prices for a couple of Thompson books were out of my range.) One does have to remember that there weren't that many people in California in 1930, and that those who came there had tended to leave heavy items like books behind when they made their move. And that by now, there are more people in California than in the next two largest states in population put together. So it's not unreasonable that California prices for older books are higher than in the rest of the country. Dave: Some of the portraits of Dorothy (e.g. in WISHING HORSE) look pretty grown-up, except that she's rather flat-chested. But then, so are quite a= lot of grown-up ladies in our world... And Bradbury's "The Exiles" is a story that you have to read for yourself,= if you haven't. I think it's in THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES, though I wouldn't swear to it. But the destruction of Oz - or, to be more accurate, the Emerald City - in it was part of the destruction of all the wonderful imaginings of mankind. Certainly Bradbury didn't approve. David Hulan ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 01:16:40 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest AOL strikes again: I note that in my plate repair item of yesterday, the first few words in paragraph two were dropped in the transmission. It should have read: "To remove a plate, as from a worn book, for transfer to a better book,= open" [the book partially on the glue line......etc.] I realize Wagner's account of "flying heads and rock men" may not be Baum,= orsome hazy erroneous recollection she has about Baum Oz. I was not at her lecture to debate the matter, and transmitted the article, uncensored, primarily for the matriarch angle. A near "dream" Once I was rumaging through books in a thrift shop at Columbia University selling items donated by the faculty. I had never found anything Ozzy or Baumy there in over ten years. Stooping over to examine a lower shelf, I slipped, lifted my head rather rapidly, and bumped it very hard on the shelf above. I was almost knocked unconscious and saw colored lights for a spell. Then I had a blurry vision of a red book, "the Fate of a Crown" by Schuyler Staunton (aka L. Frank Baum). I thought I was dreaming. When I "woke up", I was staring at a fine first printing of the book on the shelf, eye high. Somehow I had missed it on my first pass. It was 50c, AND THAT WAS NO DREAM! Herm Bieber ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 01:46:32 -0500 (EST) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-27-97 To any would-be book repairers: Use the right glue! It must be clear and flexible when dry. I recommend Demco's "Norbond" liquid plastic adhesive book maintenance glue, available from Demco library supplies at (800) 356=A91200. Once you have acquired the glue, follow Herm's instructions. DO NOT USE TAPE unless the book is a reading copy for you own use, as tape can destroy a book's value. I am not familiar with Gili's tape, but any tape on books scares me. Herm: Please give us tips on fixing broken hinges. John White: You may want to find a copy of The Dream World of Dion McGregor, all of the stories in which were allegedly from the author's transcribed dreams. Bob Spark: In my opinion, a book in "rough" shape that is missing pages has no value, not even as a "reading copy", unless it is very rare (such as a 1st edition of the Woggle Bug book, where a single page should have some value). Scott: Enjoyed your story about your book find! Everyone: Can anyone else share stories like Scott's? I am always engrossed by tales of Oz book finds! - Joel Harris ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 02:26:52 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Belgrave Subject: Ozzy Digest Hi all, I've been ill for a couple of weeks so I'm going back several days digests. Hope you can all still follow the posts. Scott... You mention, and I have heard others mention "Oz Christmas Cards of Fred Meyers". What cards are these? Did I somehow get missed from the IWOC Christmas Card List? Boo Hoo!!!! Bill W.... You talkes sometime back about a .fif file. Can we download a fif viewer from the address you gave us and do you have the Oz pics to view with it? Bob W.... Did you try the movie database site for movie clips? I can try and find the address for you if you don't have it. Nate... Does the "Wiz" soundtrack have to be new? I think I know where I acn find a used LP. How much you want to spend? You mentioned Micheal McClure performance of poetry with Oz characters mentioned, do you happen to have the wods to the poem? I'd love to read it. Robin... How's Fred Meyer doing these days? I haven't heard anything of him in a few months. Does he ever peek in to the Digest? Tyler... My bosses' name is VanAllen and my mothers maiden name is VonGunten. Both are very German and it is my understanding that "Von and Van" mean "from the house of". My mother says at one time it had something to do with royalty somehow. Let me know what you come up with. Now for a few ideas of my own... Someone wrote recently about the Tinmans costume. She wanted to know if it was in a museum somewhere. I'd like to know where any of the characters costumes are. Anyone know? Anyone besides me ever associate the "Sliders" tv show with "Oz"? I mena 3 males and 1 female traveling through space to other dimentions and sharing the adventures. Hmmm. Maybe I'm reaching huh? Ok then here's another one just in case some of you still think I'm sane. I being a person who believes our spirits come back to this earth time and time again till we learn the all the lessons we need to become complete think that Baum and Disney sure had a lot of the same ideas. Think they may be one of the same? Okay, okay, I'll try not be so OUT THERE. Just wanted to throw some food for thought. Now on to the BCF before we go on to the next one and I'm not done with this one. Here's my questions: 1. Did Baum get to choose Denslow as an artist? 2. Why didn't Del Rey continue and do all 40 FF books in paperbacks? 3. If there is no death in Oz, what about the Tin Woodman's parents and the wolves and the crows? 4. Is anyone else confused when Baum says in the Intro that "the heartaches and nightmares are left out of the fairy tale"? I think there is plenty of heartache when Dorothy leaves Oz and if the killing of the wolves and crows doesn't scare some kids into a nightmare I'd be suprized. Well that's enogh for now. Sinsozly, Barbara ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 06:56:58 -0500 (EST) From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 2-28-97 Dave; Hasn't Scott H. set some kind of Digest record? 19 individual posts in one issue! Tyler: I, too, had trouble accessing your web page, but finally got there= by way of the link from Nathan's page. It seems a backslash is required after "tylerjones". Once there, I enjoyed your presentation, (with that GREAT Emerald City), as well as Nathan's and Buckhead's pages. Herm: Thanks for the "Book Repair Seminar - Part 1" I, for one, would appreciate the sequel, when you have the time. Is "Book Saver" glue readily available? Dick ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 12:48:52 -0500 (EST) From: "John N. White" Subject: Oz On the subject of books in Oz books, there is a picture in LAND where a student of Professor Nowitall is holding a book titled: "HISTORY of the LAND of OZ". When I was little I can remember looking at that picture and really wanting that book. DavidXOE@aol.com writes: > Your mer-girl dream sounds as if it might have been inspired by SEA= FAIRIES, > possibly? It could be; I've reread SEA FAIRIES a few times. sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu writes: > I always saw Dorothy's cleaning up the mess the witch made as rather > grusone. Witch or no witch, you don't sweep a corpse out the door and > forget about it! Oh yes I do. Of course, in my case it was an insect corpse. :-) I always thought it was very good of Dorothy to clean up the mess. Most protagonists just leave the mess (like in the Narnian SILVER CHAIR). Aunt Em: Dorothy, if you make a mess then you should clean it up. Don't expect other people to go around cleaning up after you. Dorothy: Yes, Auntie Em. So you see, Dorothy was just being a good little girl. HermBieber@aol.com writes: > The facimile editions for the recent editions of the Wizard of Oz were= made > by photocopying techniques, ... Thanks. That explains why the colors weren't corrected. I note that the DJ of the BOW edition of WIZARD has pictures that appear to have had their color corrected, though. Dave Hardenbrook writes: > Ozma: Just for the record, I am totally, utterly opposed to all slavery > in all forms! If my people are not all happy and free, *I'M* not > happy or free! Inquisition: How, then, do you explain this report that you learned of persons being held in a state of slavery -- and that in said state they were subject to defenestration and other sundry abuse at the whim of their cruel masters, the Herku -- and that you made absolutely no effort to free them? > NEILL *KNOWS*! :) : Whenever there is any sort of conflict between the text and the= illustrations I always go with the text. But if you really want a picture of Polychrome as a young woman then you should see an edition of Tin Woodman that I have with illustrations by Dale Ulrey. I think Polly's dress would especially appeal to you, Dave. It is *very* low cut in the back and under the arms (like down to her waist). > Ozma: Besides, Mr. Neill was the one who came out to Oz and actually > *did our portraits*! No, Neill was working from Baum's description. The real Ozma would have known that, so this Ozma must be an impostor. > Jellia: A story in which Oz is utterly destroyed is OK, but Ozma et al. > growing up and falling in love is "sacriligous"! Go figure. A story where Oz is destroyed is not only HICC, it would be a HICC story that I have absolutely no interest in reading. A story where Ozma gets married is no problem, since it is clear that the Ozma in question is the impostor who thought Neill went to Oz, and eventually the impostor will be unmasked and the real Ozma restored. = :-) -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 13:23:11 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-28-07 Jellia: A story in which Oz is utterly destroyed is OK, but Ozma et al. growing up and falling in love is "sacriligous"! Go figure. -- Dave< It's the reason some people relish the death of innocent and good characters, and cheer the resurrection of wicked ones. (Which was done by Chester Gould's successors on the "Dick Tracy" comic strip. Sadists wrote in cheering the violet death of Moonmaid. (The new writers had her blown and burned up by a bomb in her car.)). There was also a letter from a sadist in the comic "Aquaman" who said, "I'm glad Aquababy is dead!" Keep in mind that Baum considered such beings creatures of evil. ("Consider the joy of making the happy unhappy. Consider the joy of destroying innocent people," says Guph. And the First and Foremost Phanfasm replies, "Ah! You have answered us...) Heh, heh. I wonder how many writers would create horrible fantasy worlds or write stuff like "The Oz Squad" and "Oz" if they could be condemned and afterward forced to live in those worlds.... Melody Grandy ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 13:44:46 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For the Ozzy Digest Dave: Not sure whether this was sent! More AOL problems of late! for John White: The facimile editions for the recent editions of the Wizard of Oz were made by photocopying techniques, and there are no antiquarian books which have organic dye plates that have not changed since they were originally printed (an exception is the metallic inks used in some expensive old books that are much more stable to aging). So there is no accurate point of reference. In fact, if you compare two identical books that have been stored under dry vs damp environments, you will see quite a variation in color. Having said that, the main cause for different tints will be in the method used to produce the plates from the photo copies. Expensive dye transfer processes can be used to make faithful renditions for expensive limited editions of art prints or nature photographs. But the processes suitable for cheap, mass produced books all have serious limitations in fidelity. On Dreams: Seeing the Wizard of Oz as a child had a profound effect on me. It was the first technicolor film I had seen. Movies must have always had a strong influence on me because I only recall dreams in black and white before I saw the Wizard. Thereafter they were usually in color. I distinctly remember one dream wherein I was returning to my home town. = The village was reached right after going through a dark RR tunnel. Well, the dream started in black and white, and when the train exited the tunnel, it changed to brilliant color. No kidding ! Gordon: I'm hoping the Phantom Book Shop thought they had an original dust jacket,= in which case the price would be in the right ball park. If they KNEW it was a replicate jacket, then I would have to question their judgement and perhaps their ethics. But I'm always amazed at California prices. I was recently in The Prince= and he Pauper, a shop in San Diego. They had some very nice Oz material, but the prices would knock your socks off. I decided the store name derives= from he fact that one enters as a prince and leaves a pauper. Herm Bieber ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 14:23:43 -0500 (EST) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by delphi.com From: dsparker@mail.utexas.edu (Douglass S. Parker) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-28-07 A bit on Eva Katherine Gibson. I took a xerox of ZAUBERLINDA years ago, and let it sit till I tried to find something out about her in connection with a course last fall. First thing I found, from the UTAustin library, was: Gibson, Eva Katherine Clapp, 1857-1916 Indexed as: CLAPP EVA KATHERINE Author: CLAPP EVA KATHERINE matches your search: GIBSON EVA KATHERINE CLAPP Why the change? Well, she'd published before, in the 1880's. Maiden name? The library here has four of your five titles including ZAUB, but three of them are on microfilm. I'll put them down in somewhat edited form. Maybe the microfilms, or film [Reel G-9] is/are still procurable: 1 Clapp, Eva Katherine, 1857-1916. / Her bright future. / Chicago= 1970(1880) FILM 19,048 V.3 REEL G-9 Microforms PCL Level 1 USE IN LIBRARY ONLY PUBLISHED: Chicago : H.A. Sumner, 1880. DESCRIPTION: 309 p. ; 19 cm. NOTES: Microfilm. Woodbridge, Conn. : Research Publications, 1970-1978. 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm. (Wright American fiction ; v. 3 (1876-1900), reel G-9, no. 2153) OCLC NUMBER: 2379120 2 Clapp, Eva Katherine, 1857-1916. / A lucky mishap: a novel. / Chicago 1970(1883) FILM 19,048 V.3 REEL G-9 Microforms PCL Level 1 USE IN LIBRARY ONLY PUBLISHED: Chicago : Belford, Clarke, 1883. DESCRIPTION: 276 p. ; 19 cm. NOTES: Microfilm. Woodbridge, Conn.: Research Publications, 1970-1978. 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm. (Wright American fiction ; v. 3 (1876-1900), reel G-9, no. 2154) OCLC NUMBER: 2379130 3 Clapp, Eva Katherine, 1857-1916. / A woman's triumph a true story of western life. / Chicago 1970(1885) FILM 19,048 V.3 REEL G-9 Microforms PCL Level 1 USE IN LIBRARY ONLY PUBLISHED: Chicago : A.H. Andrews, 1885. DESCRIPTION: 80 p. ; 16 cm. NOTES: Microfilm. Woodbridge, Conn. : Research Publications, 1970-1978. 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm. (Wright American fiction ; v. 3 (1876-1900), reel G-9, no. 2155) OCLC NUMBER: 2379146 4 Clapp, Eva Katherine, 1857-1916. / Zauberlinda, the wise witch./Chicago= 1901 PZ 8 G358 Z Humanities Research Center USE IN LIBRARY ONLY PUBLISHED: Chicago, Lansing, R. Smith printing co. (1901) DESCRIPTION: 256 p. col. illus. 22 cm. NOTES: Pictures by Mabel Tibbitts. Illustrated end papers. COPY NOTES: HRC bookplate: The L.W. Currey Science Fiction and Fantasy Collection. SUBJECTS: Fantastic fiction, American OCLC NUMBER: 592067 What has fascinated me about ZAUBERLINDA, Gibson/Clapp's 1901 OZ ripoff [Annie, from South Dakota, and her pet *cat*], is the way in which LFB reciprocated. After all, the Gnome (sic) King first occurs in Gibson, though he's scarcely a figure of fun, and so do prairie dogs. And there are also farmhand(s), which might have led into the 1939 movie. Could LFB, miffed at the theft, have decided that what was sauce for the gander was sauce for the goose? Anyway, years ago I got ZAUB on ILL from Bowling Green, where they have things like that. They may have more works/materials/whatever. The early novels don't appear to be juveniles, but they look like Popular Culture, and that's where BG shines. I would have written them last year, but didn't realize how little I knew until I was mired in something else. As usual. Hope that this helps. Thanks for the booknotes. AND the reference to Pattrick, which I have somewhere, buried under much stuff. I'll quite literally dig it out. //Doug Parker My classics hat: IPSO FACTO Latin for "by the act or fact itself." As a result of the act or fact, with no argument, explanation, or addition necessary. Webster3 gives a nice example, which comes down to: "If someone inveighs against censorship, is he/she IPSO FACTO being a censor him/herself?" Or, if you wish, "A dedicated reader of OZ books is ipso facto a cultured person." If you get tired of IPSO FACTO, there's always the legal maxim RES IPSA LOQUITUR "The thing itself speaks," which is to say, "It's obvious [without argument, etc.]," or "Plain as the nose on your face," or... Sorry. I get carried away. Thanks for the book references. //Doug Parker ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 97 11:55:35 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DAVE'S OZ BOOK 1: Jeremy Steadman wrote: >I always wondered, myself, about the now-nonexistent GWN. She's *isn't* non-existant!!! She makes a comeback in my book _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_ (see Section 4.4 of the Ozzy Digest FAQ)! DAVE'S OZ BOOK 2: RE: John White's comments It seems to me that someone here on the Digest once said, "Oz is for everyone"...I therefore am of the opinion that everyone has a right to their= own personal vision of Oz, and because each version of Oz is equally of= another niverse, no version is "TRUE" Oz while others are "IMPOSTERS" (Well, okay probably _Wicked_, _Oz Sqaud_, etc. are imposters). But a lot of people I= now realize don't believe that and never *will* believe that and think I am a "sacriligious heretic" for having my own unique ideas about Oz. So what can I do but shrug and move forward? So I'm going to get on with writing my books, and you've heard me discuss them on the Digest for the last time ( this time REALLY AND TRULY! :) ). -- Dave ======================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 2, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 15:33:50 -0500 (EST) From: SmartyKid@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-01-97 I like your newsletter, but I don't understand the ways like you say Alan: BLAH BLAH BLAH or Nate:BLAH BLAH BLAH etc. Please explain ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 15:54:18 -0500 (EST) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-01-97 The telephone number for Demco did not seem to make it on the last Digest. Try 8003561200. Estelle: If you do not care about the value of the poster, do whatever makes it look best (drymount or laminate). However, I would think that either would pretty much make the poster worth a lot less to collectors. To preserve value, only acidfree matting should be used under glass, of course. Joel ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 17:52:06 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-01-97 And the Dread Hexadecimal Plague is back again! Jeremy: My feeling is that the name of The Prince and the Pauper bookshop refers to the fact that even a prince who enters is likely to exit a pauper. :-) (But with a lot of neat, if overpriced, books!) Eleanor: I've read one "Sandman" book, but didn't like it that much, so haven't read any more. (This despite the fact that the Gaiman/Pratchett collaboration, GOOD OMENS, is one of my favorite books of the last decade.) If Dorothy was four feet tall in WIZARD then it seems extremely unlikely that he was as young as 5. I read to 4th and 5th graders (who are presumably 9-10 ears old) and I don't believe any of them is over 4 feet tall; certainly not uch over. Being 60 myself, I don't think that the description of the GWN including "face covered with wrinkles" and "walked rather stiffly" is consistent with her being that age. Admittedly, it varies, and I've known people in their= 40s ith wrinkled faces and stiff walks, but it's more typical of people well= into their 70s. It's certainly true that a child's estimate of age is very different from an adult's, but here we're dealing not just with Dorothy's perception but with actual physical description. I agree with you that it's interesting that Dorothy says "Take me home to Aunt Em!" In fact, she seems to have much more affection for and interest in Em in WIZARD than in the subsequent books; from OZMA on she seems much more interested in and concerned about Henry. Barbara B.: I thought Fred Meyer sent out Christmas cards to everyone in the IWOC. If you've only been a member for a year or two, then it's probably explained because for the past couple of Christmases he's been having physical= problems and may well not have updated his address list. If you've been a member longer than that, then I don't know. (I notice you're not listed in the 1996 Membership Directory, incidentally.) High German "von" and Dutch/Low German "van" both basically mean "from". "Van" doesn't have any connection with nobility at all ("van Beethoven", for instance, means "from the beet fields"), but I think most "von"s do represent the landed gentry. (No assurances on that, though; maybe somebody knows for sure?) >I being a person who believes our spirits come back to this earth time and >time again till we learn the all the lessons we need to become complete >think that Baum and Disney sure had a lot of the same ideas. Think they >may be one of the same? If your speculation is that Disney was a reincarnation of Baum, then no, I don't believe that. Disney was born well before Baum's death. If that's not what you meant, then I don't know. Others will undoubtedly answer your questions; I'll only have a go at 2 and 3. Del Rey stopped reprinting the later Oz books because they weren't selling well and Judy-Lynn del Rey, who had spearheaded the effort to publish them, died. And there was clearly death in Oz at least up to shortly before the events= of EMERALD CITY, since one of Billina's chicks is recorded as dying after= Ozma's birthday party (presumably the one in ROAD). I think the first mention of deathlessness in Oz was in TIK-TOK. John W.: So how does one find a copy of that TIN WOODMAN illustrated by Dale Ulrey? Who published it, and when? I've never seen any Oz books that Neill illustrated with illustrations by someone else. Dave: Bet you can't find a single instance of anyone calling you a "sacrilegious heretic" in the entire history of the Digest. But I agree with you entirely that the thing to do is to get on with writing your books about your own ideas of Oz, and getting them published if you can. Talking about them on the Digest is up to you, but if having your ideas nit-picked (which is a much more accurate description of what's happened than "flamed") bothers you, then you shouldn't. One problem, I think, is the HACC. I think it's fun to think about, but I have no intention of even considering what any non-canonical book says in the course of writing my own books. I do my best to adhere completely to the FF (sometimes, as in EUREKA, reconciling apparent contradictions between FF books), but I ignore non-FF books just as completely. I'll leave it to others to try to reconcile any such discrepancies. It's also probable that the more unusual your vision of Oz is, the less chance you have of getting your books published other than at your own expense. But that's a separate consideration. David Hulan ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 17:01:07 -0800 From: serenadb@sos.net (Serena DuBois) Subject: Ozzy digests 2/25 following! I am spending a pleasant Saturday catching up on reading for a week, so if some of this is old as I type in, I am sorry. I want to begin by thanking everyone for info on bookstores where I can get later RPT books etc. and for clearing up my misconception regarding reprints and color plates. I stand corrected. wasn't on your message!) Your web page which I have not had a chance to look at yet! But I wanted to say in response to your message of 2/25 that if you use Microsoft Word, you can download from the Microsoft site either on the internet, and I think, from AOL, a program called Internet Assistant which codes and decodes HTML pages. I don't think it handles complicated stuff, but could probably take some of the pain out of what you are doing if you don't have it already. I got it to read web pages I have downloaded and have not tried to create anything with it. It works fine for reading and has two formats just like word itself. One is the equivalent of Print Preview (you can't change anything) and the other shows the HTML codes etc. It comes zipped with explanatory material. Book fixing. I would never dream of mending books that were to be collectibles but will take a hand with old friends to keep them from falling apart. I find Scotch magic tape and some nice multicolored "duct type tape" I found (came in green, blue and red) did wonders for my ERB (NOT the Mimics, the author!) books which I had read to pieces in my teenyears. I used the duct tape to replace nonexisting back bindings matching it to the color of covers which in the Burroughs books were usually (luckily!) red green or blue! I would be more inclined to take Oz books (we had a number of first editions in the ones still in storage) to a repair person, but as was remarked, sometimes professional repairs can cost more than the book is worth. It is a puzzlement what to do. My thanks to Herm Bieber (2/28) for directions for less rough and ready book mending than I practiced! Oz (and other "find") dreams. I have wondered if Robert Heinlein was acting out this dream when he wrote "The Number of the Beast" in which our heroes (2) and heroines (2) travel in a time twister on the run from some "Black Hat" baddies out to wipe them out of the story. They go not so much back and forward and time but into alternative universes including both Oz, Wonderland (meeting Lewis Carroll in the process), and other favorites looking for a safe place to light. I love Heinlein's later Multiverse books for exactly the reason the Hard Sci Fi crew hates them. They give hope to my finding Oz (and other "made universes") myself one day! Deetee (short for Dejah Thoris, her dad obviously loved ERB!) wanted to stay in Oz until Glinda pointed out she would have to stay the little girl she had been when she read Oz and grew to know it so well and give up the baby she was carrying because there is no birth or death in Oz. They moved on, but came back for various reasons from getting problems solved to dropping off children for babysitting (!!)at later points in the book(s). His characterization of the Oz characters he used felt right to me (closer to the "real" thing that Farmer was in "Barnstormer in OZ!!") when I read them (Tik-Tok kept needing rewinding in mid-sentence), and interestingly he may have known about not using non PD characters because as I recall, they only saw Glinda, Tik-Tok, and a few other Baum characters. As for my own dreaming, I have often dreamed about reaching for things, books etc and not being able to open them, but can't remember Oz in particular. Most of the time I just go back and RE-read when I get that nudge. But I could always use a new adventure. Does anyone remember Dot&Tot well enough (!!) to know if they found a place where all the unwritten books were a la the area with all the piles of lost stuff. Something has been picking at the back of my brain that that might be there, but maybe just wishful thinking as a nice episode... That story is so much like a kid's dream itself it would fit! John N. White writes on 2/27 about his "Dram Dream" >...So in the end Dram realizes what she really wants is an Ozzy home like the one offered to her by the childless couple. Hmmm... That leaves a lot of blanks, but there may be an Oz book there. What do you think?> I personally think that's the basis of a very good Oz book! Go for it! Douglass Parker: Your 2/27 suggestion that your not finding Oz books were inadequacy dreams. I call those kinds frustration dreams, that you are in inner frustration about something else in your life, being stopped from doing this that or the other by factors in your life not necessarily in yourself. And that story (??) the Actor's Nightmare reminds me of a poem called something like "A Teacher's Friday Night Nightmare" which is bits and pieces of all the school poems the kids had to memorize and throw back at her jumbled together in a very comic way. My mother put it on an old wire recorder record we had as a kid. I don't remember the author, but enjoyed it. I know it had a bit of the "Wonderful One hoss Shay" in it and maybe Paul Revere's Ride and others. If anyone remembers the correct title and author (and in this erudite bunch someone will!), please tell me! Gordon Birrell I chortled at your description on 2/27 of the brown sugar witch melting to a puddle. Having just reread WWOZ for this digest I found it particularly vivid! Good work! I don't think Dorothy was old enough at that time to comprehend death or worry about what it was so her mopping up the mess made sense where if an adult did it, it would be really weird! On 2/28 Dave Hardenbrook quoted Ozma as saying: >Ozma: Just for the record, I am totally, utterly opposed to all slavery > in all forms! If my people are not all happy and free, *I'M* not > happy or free! Please give chapter and verse on this quote! I'd hate to think you were putting words in a fairy queen's mouth! ;-) I am finally up to date having read about 1 week's Ozzy Digest in one sitting! When I plunge into something, I plunge! Sorry for the monster= message! Serena DuBois ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 19:01:07 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-01-97 Poster preservation: I don't know, either, but I do know not to laminate them. I learned that when I was framing some stuff at a frame shop and overheard a poster collector "freak out" when a lady came in to have her 1939 GWTW poster laminated. Book finds: Lotsa stories, but I'll stick to just three of the odd ones. I believe some things are meant to be, like calling a Vancouver shop for the first time in several years only to have the clerk tell me they'd just gotten something in and were considering trying to find my number to tell me about it: it was a letter Baum had written to a little girl. Neat stationery and a Baum signature! Maybe the funniest find was right next to where we used to hold the Ozmopolitan Convention. I'd found out about a "secret stash" of Oz books that a dealer was bringing there the next morning. I told no one, got there early, and found one car at the dealer's. The car belonged to Irene Fisher, but the driver was my pal John VanCamp. He'd found out about the same "secret stash" and not only hadn't told *me* about it, but hadn't told Irene (another collector) why he needed to borrow her car. Neither of us was thrilled to see the other. (We ended up splitting the cache three ways with the person who'd told me about the stuff in the first place. I guess the best "find," however, was at a St. Louis Book Fair. I was hunting Oz and found Jim Haff instead. He got me into IWOC. Steve Teller keeps up with Fred Meyer more than I do. How's Fred, Steve? I wish Fred did have a computer. He would certainly enjoy this group. --Robin ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 19:14:22 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-01-97 Barbara: Baum and Denslow were, essentially, partners in WOZ. Del Rey started publishing the Oz books as a pet project of Lester Del Rey's wife. When she died, so did the project. As for the nightmare and heartaches aspect of WOZ, yes, that always bothered me as a kid. I didn't understand Baum's disclaimer at all, and it rather irritated me, since I thought the book was loaded with stuff that could make for nightmares.(Not for me, though!) Death in Oz? Essentially, no one knows for sure, so it's wide open for conjecture. ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 20:15:31 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-01-97 Eleanor: If Dorothy had commanded the silver shoes to take her back to Kansas, she could have been taken to the wrong part of the state. As for why Aunt Em and not Uncle Henry, I guess the odds were better that Em would be in or near the new house, whereas Henry could have been somewhere else on the farm. -- Craig Noble ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 09:40:56 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dave Hulan: You are correct in that there are fewer books, hence higher prices, in CA because people who migrated there left them in the east. The same is true for Florida and Arizona. I always hoped to intercept the old Oz books of seniors retiring to the sun belt. Sadly, one can't advertise in "Modern Maturity", the AARP magazine, because it does not accept personal ads. So I am fortunate to be living in the Northeast, the land of Oz plenty (comparatively speaking). But even here one has to devise special techniques for uncovering Oz treasures. Someday, when I truly retire, I will reveal my proprietary book finding secrets. Book Repair - II (BROKEN HINGES) book. The book is assembled from double sided stock, each contain two pages with four sides of print or B&W illustration. These are then folded into a gathering, typically 4, 8, 16 or 32 pages. The gatherings are then sewn onto a backing of a gauze/paper laminate. The pages are then trimed to be flush, as the inner folded sheet protrudes more than the outer folded sheet least in each gathering. The backing material may be saturated with adhesive so it all hangs together, but this adhesive is not apparent looking into the book from the opened pages. The cover is constructed by covering two pieces of cardboard with cloth,= with a gap between the two cardboards equivalent to the width of the spine. The cloth on the inside will not usually cover the whole cardboard because the endpapers will do so. The outside cloth may be printed upon, embossed, or covered with a pictorial paper label. The gauze in the page backing will extend about 1" on each side, and this is glued to the inside of each cardboard. Then the end papers are inserted. Each is a double page. The outside page is glued to the inside face of the cover cardboard. The inside page (or free endpaper) is glued to the first page of the first gathering. (Sometimes the first page of the first gathering is glued to the cover cardboard instead of using separate endpapers.) Note that the cloth spine may be reinforced with paper or thin cardboard, but it is NOT glued to the backing. To do so would result in a creased or puckered spine when the book is used. TO MAKE THE ABOVE CLEAR, TAKE AN OLD BOOK APART WITH A KNIFE, OR BY SOAKING IT IN WATER OVERNIGHT. Types of wear: With use, the first thing that goes is the paper inner hinge of the= endpaper. When this shows signs of cracking, the book is termed "hinges starting". Later the hinges part completely to expose the gauze underneath. When the gauze cracks or tears (more likely), the cover may part from the printed pages. If this happens on both sides, the book is termed "disbound." Finally, the cover cloth may crack or tear along the spine edges. If a= book has been disbound but the cloth is OK, then it can be repaired by lifting= the first inch of endpaper off the inside cardboards (with razor or exacto= knife) to remove the 1" strips of gauze glued therein. Be careful not to tear the endpaper. Now a new piece of gauze is glued to the books backing, again= with a 1" piece protruding on each side. Then, one side at a time, the gauze= flap is glued between the endpaper and the cardboard. This is called "recasing" the book. Press the book while it is drying, and make sure you don't get the cover on upside down. Again use wax paper to prevent the glue from wandering. Also take care that the cloth spine doesn't get glued to the backing. With practice, you can take one Oz book with fine internals and a lousy cover,= and another with a pristine cover and crayoned and cut inside pages and switch the parts so that only an expert can tell it has been done. In economic terms, this means $20 + $20 + 1/4 hour labor = $150. Its really not that much work, one just has to go something else productive during the drying times. If the cardboards are extensively damaged, as by creasing or the cloth being worn through at the edges and corners, then one can buy or make a new case= to fit the book, and glue the old spine onto the new spine, so that the long edges are hidden in the creases. The label can be transferred onto the new front cover (except that Oz labels are VERY HARD to soak off). This is called "rebacking", and a rebacked book is obviously worth a lot less than a recased book. A tight book will have a very small crack between each gethering, and the center of the gathering will show the threads. Looking at the spine end on will give a better idea of gathering size (which is a definitive first edition point in some late Oz titles). Often a well worn book, will have streched or loosened sewn threads so that a visible gap appears between the gatherings. Said gap usually does not go through the backing. Such a book is quite loose (termed "shaken"), and is often "tightened" by gluing the adjacent gatherings together for about 1/16" to 1/8" along the spine. Use a wax paper dam, as in inserting plates, to confine the glue to this small width. However the proper way to repair a loose book is to have it "resewn". But this is costly and only justified for expensive books. To resew, recase (or reback) and otherwise repair a book professionally can cost well over $100, mostly for labor. The final step is to fix the paper hinge, which often is the only repair required. Open the book flat on a table to expose the front hinge, assuming this is broken. Run a bit of glue along the edge of the cardboard and push the book together while keeping the rear cover and the edge of the front cover on the table. This has the effect of gluing the gauze onto the cardboard edge. (If the gauze flap is not torn, but has detached from the front cardboard and front endpaper, it must be first reglued between the cardboard and endpaper as in recasing). Let dry while keeping the sideways pressure on the open book, and downward pressure on the cover at the hinge. Laying a heavy book on the hinge is ideal, but be sure to use wax paper in between. Also use a creased wax paper on the outside crease between the front cover and the spine. .Otherwise glue may bleed through the cloth and glue the spine cloth onto the edge of the paper label. Then, when the look is later closed, it will tear the label. The torn paper hinge may be mostly attached to the cover, or mostly with the free endpaper, or a combination. Moisten the hinge paper with a little water, so it will stay away from the gauze. Then use a toothpick to coat= the side of the paper hinge facing the gauze with flexible drying glue. (Booksaver is made by the , but any similar flexible glue can be used. Ask your librarian ot a local book dealer what is available in your area.) Using toothpicks or a knitting needle, press the torn hinge against the gauze, first the inner hinge, then the outer hinge (the paper attached to= the cover). The torn edges should butt together or overlap slightly. Use a knitting needle to smooth the paper snug into the crease, and burnish the torn glued edges as the glue is drying. The final result should look very good, and if the tear was in the crease (e.g. all the paper was attached to the cover) it may even look like it had never been torn. (If some of the hinge paper is missing, find a piece of blank Reilly and Lee paper from a shot Oz book and cut to fit the "hole" in the hinge paper.) Let dry, all= the while keeping the book open. When dry carefully close the book, and then repair the back hinge if needed. The closing cover may be a bit stiff at first, but it will shortly break in. AGAIN, THE BEST WAY TO LEARN THE ABOVE IS TO PRACTICE ON A BOOK THAT YOU ARE PLANNING TO DISCARD ANYWAY. Herm Bieber ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 15:03:14 -0500 (EST) From: Pfloydkix@aol.com Subject: Strange occurence To: DaveH47@delphi.com Hi, I have a question about the movie "Wizard of Oz". I don't know if this is true or not but I would really like to know. Ok here it is, in the movie when the wicked witch throws fire at the scarecrow the viewer is supposed to look in the background and see a man hanging himself. It was said a man did hang himself in the movie and that part was never edited out.= Rumor or not? If you have the answer please mail me at: Pfloydkix@aol.com ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 17:25:52 -0500 (EST) From: dsparker@mail.utexas.edu (Douglass S. Parker) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-01-97 Wild Woozles, such as inhabit the Web, or rather the Net, nibbled away at my salutations in OD 3/01. The Eva Katherine (Clapp) Gibson note was to Ruth Berman; IPSO FACTO to Nathan DeHoff. Eleanor Kennedy: On your urging to reread THE ACTOR'S NIGHTMARE, I poked at my shelves yesterday, but couldn't uncover it. (How can everything I own be under something else?) I'll persist, muttering to myself about the dangers of putting down anything about which I'm not Absolutely Sure. Ruth Berman: I found the Pattrick "Books In Oz" piece. As systematic a presentation as the matter is likely to get. Thanks very much. One more thing about ZAUBERLINDA: The book's design is very evocative of WOZ, too: Colored printings beneath and around text, reluctance to let a page go by unillustrated, and even [anticipating ROAD], various colors of page stock. Was that standard practice in children's books at the turn of the century, or might one say that Baum & Denslow started it, and Gibson & her illustrator Mabel Tibbits, extended it? Gordon Birrell, the 2/21/96 1/2 remarks on The Dainty China Country: >What the Dainty China Country chapter demonstrates is that the just= exercise of >power involves not only appropriate force against dangerous aggressors but >also, and inevitably, a sense of responsibility to respect the rights of >those who are smaller, weaker, more fragile, and--yes--more brittle. Very perceptive and really helpful, though I don't suppose that it will squelch those who consider WOZ 19-22 irrelevant, as did MGM. [Why go to Glinda's? Bring her back by fast bubble.] But there may be other, extra-structural reasons for insisting on the China Country, as well as the other places: Fighting Trees, the Lion's spider-thing, the Hammerheads. [1] Here's the start of what delighted me most about the subsequent Oz-books, and, even though [or because] it became a sort of tic in Thompson: The creation of a series of largely ad hoc quasi-allegorical places, which might or might not have any thematic function in The Book As A Whole. "What will he/she come up with next?" Wild invention (well, not in WOZ, but later) of unusual spots, parodic or satiric places--this, for me, was the fundamental pleasure of Oz, I think; it was certainly what set me to making the huge Oz map that swallowed a good part of my 13th year. The plot was, I'm afraid, secondary; what I wanted was a series of realized weirdnesses. [2] It doesn't do much for the Populist-Oz theory, but it should be considered in connection with William R. Leach's Consumerist-Oz, first set forth in the essays bracketing his edition of WOZ in the American Society & Culture Series [Belmont CA: Wadsworth, 1991] and developed in his LAND OF DESIRE: MERCHANTS, POWER, AND THE RISE OF A NEW AMERICAN CULTURE [NYC: Pantheon/Random House, 1993]. Leach himself doesn't do much with it, about all he gives is a parenthesis, "...brown for the Dainty China Country (a land where all the 'little people' are made out of colorful china--Baum's homage to his years as a glass and crockery salesman)..." [LAND OF DESIRE p. 252]. Maybe it should be considered in terms of Baum's AMERICAN FAIRY TALES of 1901 [Dover repr. 1978], where department stores almost seem the locale of choice. [No china, I think, but there's a Glass *Dog* who anticipates Bungle, and the mannequin in "The Dummy That Lived" is certainly fragile, and deteriorates alarmingly.] Neither [1] nor [2] may operate very well in terms of structure; in fact, they keep dragging the reader outside the story...though the CC is certainly a useful foil to that REAL Wanamaker's or Field's or Macy's, the Emerald City. But that resonance/resemblance to an outside world [which might just be ours] is one of the glories of great children's literature. Or, as may be, of any great literature. Which is, I suppose, a hassle best avoided. Anyway, fine point. Doug Parker ======================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 3 - 4, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] (Sorry there was not 3/3/97 Digest...You humble editor has had a bad cold... -- Dave) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 16:59:31 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-01-97 > Incidentally, is the identity of the third preliminary judge known? Just > curious. > Yes, she is. I've known her for many years. > From: Barbara Belgrave > You mention, and I have heard others mention "Oz Christmas Cards of Fred > Meyers". What cards are these? Did I somehow get missed from the IWOC > Christmas Card List? Boo Hoo!!!! > How's Fred Meyer doing these days? I haven't heard anything of him in a > few months. Does he ever peek in to the Digest? > I hope to talk to him tonight. He doesn't peep in to the digest. > > Now on to the BCF before we go on to the next one and I'm not done with > this one. Here's my questions: > 1. Did Baum get to choose Denslow as an artist? They were both part of the Chicago artistic circle. Denslow had done some illustrations for BY THE CANDALABRA'S GLARE and illustrated FATHER GOOSE HIS BOOK. > 2. Why didn't Del Rey continue and do all 40 FF books in paperbacks? Judy-Lynn Del Rey dies. She was the moving force behind the project. > 3. If there is no death in Oz, what about the Tin Woodman's parents and > the wolves and the crows? This has been much discussed lately on the Digest. The question is, when did death cease to exist in Oz? > 4. Is anyone else confused when Baum says in the Intro that "the > heartaches and nightmares are left out of the fairy tale"? I think there is > plenty of heartache when Dorothy leaves Oz and if the killing of the wolves > and crows doesn't scare some kids into a nightmare I'd be suprized. > These episodes are quite mild compared to the violence in the Grimm Fairy Tales. For example. The the "Cinderella " story, one sister cuts off her heel and the other her toe to try to fit in the glass slipper (the birds tell the prince that there is blood on the track. Later the birds pluck out the eyes of the sisters as they go to and from the wedding. It takes a strong stomach to read "Rapunzel." Disney's versions are pablum. Doug Parker: Thank you for the Gibsen material. Maybe I'll try to find some of her earlier books. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 19:37:47 -0500 (EST) From: JSTEADMAN@loki.berry.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-02-97 I'm replying to both the Digest of the 1st and the 2nd here, as excessive work (and the lack of availability of a networked computer that was open) prevented me from replying yesterday. Dave: For the very first time, I'm plagued with "=3D" and "=20" all over the DIgest of the first. I was quite happy the other way but realize no one's to blame. Eleanor: So I'm not the only one with corny jokes, I see. (I'm referring to your citation of "Baum's first pun"--the Scarecrow's husky-voiced line. John White: Does a HICC story have any relation to the stories I've read that were just full of air (HICCUP stories)? On to the Digest of the 2nd: David Hulan: Re "a prince who enters [the bookstore] is likely to exit a pauper. (But with a lot of neat books)": that's the power of literature--it can practically turn lead to gold Pdlouykix: Yikes! I never noticed any such effect (the suicidal man) in the movie myself, but if you hang on I'll go check . . . Douglass: Re the China Country episode: if you want to see another twist on "just use of power" (and taking place in the same spot), see my THE EMERALD RING OF OZ, available from Buckethead. Until next time, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 19:41:30 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-02-97 David: In 1955 Reilly & Lee decided to try to update the look of the Oz books. Their first attempt at a totally redrawn Oz was Dale Ulrey's _Tin Woodman_. She also reillustrated WOZ for R&L in 1956. The reillustration attempt was apparently not a financial success. Book repairs: Herm's instructions are terrific. As you may have noticed, I really didn't want to get into the subject since I've seen so very many botched attempts at repair. Please, heed his caveat and practice on a discardable book before attempting to repair an Oz book. Use plain old Elmer's glue for your practice attempts. Save the expensive stuff for the real thing. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 22:22:05 -0600 (CST) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (Atticus) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-02-97 DAVID HULAN: i don't think it's true that most 4th or 5th graders are around four feet tall. i vividly remember being measured as 5 feet or so in fifth grade, and i was (and still am) of average height. interesting to see nine inch nails mentioned here; it's kind of odd for me because i associate them with my darker mental side that oz can't exist within, with all those nights i found myself in dark nightclubs hearing trent reznor's unmistakable vocals...by the way, reznor did the soundtrack for the new david lynch movie _lost highway_, which i saw last night. it was so bizarre and disturbing...i think i really liked it. the soundtrack is good for all you wackos who subscribe. actually, there's some rather decent jazz pieces on it. take care, atticus * * * "Beautiful girls Just primp But beautiful boys Do suffer." ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 01:31:29 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest AOL strikes again, or is it in Dave's transmission. The first sentence of my hinge repair item dropped out and should have started as : "To understand hinge repair let me first review the construction of a typical book. The book is printed on double sided stock, each sheet comprising two pages with four sides of print or B&W illustration. These are then folded into a gathering, typically 4, 8, 16 or 32 pages..........etc." Also the recent digests have been printed in 3D (literally), and some of the numerals, like phone numbers, come over in cipher. Oh, well! Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 22:47:29 -0800 From: serenadb@sos.net (Serena DuBois) Subject: Ozzy Digest 3/2 Another enjoyable read! I was glad to get the second lesson in rebuilding a book from Herm Beiber. I intend to print it out and lay it aside for future reference. And Doug Parker when you said >Wild invention (well, not in WOZ, but later) of unusual spots, parodic or satiric >places--this, for me, was the fundamental pleasure of Oz, I think; it was certainly >what set me to making the huge Oz map that swallowed a good part of my 13th year. >The plot was, I'm afraid, secondary; what I wanted was a series of realized >weirdnesses. you really touched a nerve. I have a strong memory of one summer vacation from high school or perhaps even college making an enlarged version of the map in side front cover of "Who's Who in Oz" and then rereading all the Oz books and putting all the little countries that were found on trips in each book. That map hung over my bed for years after I finished it. I think what has been called "Irrelevant episodes" have always been one of my favorite joys in Oz books (particularly if they meant the discovery of a new and strange country or people who might or might not bear a part later on in the story) along with the infamous puns and other bad jokes. The thing about irrelevant episodes is that sometimes they start out seeming to be irrelevant but end up being germaine to someone's growth or learning if not to the plot at hand. And some times of course they are just fun! Lynn Beltz: Hope the Oogaboo party went well! I am looking forward to another opportunity to come to one! I want to thank David Hulan for FINALLY satisfying my curiosity as they why the Del Rey Reprints stopped so abruptly. We were buying them for my dad as they came out and then they were none. Sighh. I started to say I'm surprised they didn't have bigger sales, but then again maybe not. I remember stories my mother told when I was growing up. The local librarians hated the Oz books because the kids kept going back and rereading them and not reading anything else was the way it went. Serena DuBois ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 01:37:47 -0500 (EST) From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 3-2-97 David: The dreaded hexadecimals are with us yet again! Herm: Thanks for "Book Repair 2. , but it appears that part of the first paragraph was zapped. I'm off to sunny (hopefully) Orlando, Fla. for a week or so at Walt's World, so I'll have some major catching up to do. Keep the Digest rolling! Dick ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 09:49:26 +0100 From: Bill Wright Subject: FW: oz comics Oz Digesters. Please follow up directly with Ralph if you want to comment on his comic book. Bill in Ozlo >---------- >From: Ozgrif@aol.com[SMTP:Ozgrif@aol.com] >Sent: 1. mars 1997 20:17 >To: piglet@halcyon.com >Subject: oz comics > >Hi, > My name is Ralph Griffith and I write a comic book called OZ for Calibur >Comics. I was wondering if any Oz fans have seen it? And is so what they >thought of it. I must admit it is quite a different take on the oz mythos but >we try to use many of > the original ideas with a few twists. I found your sight most impressive >and will be using it quite a bit as a source for ideas. Thanks for your time >and information. > ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 10:30:12 -0500 (EST) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: Oz Jeremy Steadman writes: > Well, now that we're on the subject of WIZARD, perhaps now's the time > to revive the debate (regarding the all-too-easy melting of the WWW). > Was it Baum's way of getting out of a tough situation without really > having to resolve things carefully? No, Dorothy just stumbled on the Witch's Achilles' heel. It's not as if Lurline showed up and melted the witch for Dorothy. Some of Baum's books do have that problem, though. DORWIZ and PATCHWORK GIRL both have the big problem solved by someone of overwhelming power stepping in and rendering all the efforts of the protagonists meaningless. E. City is similar in that the big problem is solved with no real effort on the part of the protagonists. The concept of an evil magic worker who has remained magically alive and who is susceptible to destruction by water is fairly common in fantasy role playing games. Such a being is usually called a "Lich", and its flesh usually rots off a bit leaving it with a skeletal appearance. These undead can be harmed by holy water, and after Lurline started the enchantment nearly all the water in Oz would be the equivalent of holy water, including the well water that Dorothy used. DavidXOE@aol.com writes: > And the Dread Hexadecimal Plague is back again! There seems to be a strong correlation between a digest being over 32k and people complaining about the "Hexadecimal Plague". I didn't see any hex stuff in the last digest so I don't think the problem is on the sending end. My suspicion is that a digest of more than 32k can cause some mail readers to go into a strange mode. > I think the first mention of deathlessness in Oz was in TIK-TOK. It was mentioned in E. CITY, too: "No disease of any sort was ever known among the Ozites, and so no one ever died unless he met with an accident that prevented him from living." > So how does one find a copy of that TIN WOODMAN illustrated by Dale Ulrey? Maybe Herm or Robin could help you. > Who published it, and when? I've never seen any Oz books that Neill > illustrated with illustrations by someone else. From the "Bibliographia OZiana" (1988): | ... in 1955 Reilly & Lee selected "The Tin Woodman of Oz" for an experiment | in modernization: a new, completely reset edition with illustrations by | Dale Ulrey was published. It was not successful, and plans for | re-illustrating the rest of the Baum Oz titles were abandoned after | only two Ulrey-illustrated Oz books were published (the other was | "The Wizard of Oz, 1956). In 1965, when the book was reprinted in the | uniform "white-cover" printings, the Neill illustrations and the original | typesetting were restored. My copy has a green cloth cover which (unlike the picture in the BIBLIOGRAPHIA) is printed only on the spine. Inside there is a page which says: THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ... AN ORIGINAL OZ STORY BY L. FRANK BAUM ILLUSTRATIONS BY DALE ULREY ADAPTED FROM ORIGINAL DRAWINGS BY JOHN R. NEILL THE REILLY & LEE CO. CHICAGO All but the last line appears hand printed in various styles. The illustrations are similar in style to Neill, and most correspond to similar drawings in the Neill version. There are far fewer cutesy drawings in the pages before the story begins, though. As to how the illustrations compare, consider the illustration of the Woot-monkey escaping the jaguar by falling into the ground. In Neill's version the face of the jaguar is very expressive, but a real jaguar could probably not assume such an expression. In Ulrey's version the face is less expressive, but looks more like what a jaguar would actually look like. The re-illustrated WIZARD might be interesting, if the illustrations are redone in Neill's style, but I have never seen it. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 10:59:23 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Tyler Jones: In Dutch "van" and German "von" if the syllable becomes so much a part of the name as to be spelled in one word, it's usually capitalized, as in a Vandyke beard, but otherwise it's normally not capitalized -- except that in America families with such names often choose to capitalize the particle -- hence the Van Allen belt or Van de Graaff generator, but van der Waals forces (terms all in Webster's 9th New Collegiate Dictionary). Incidentally, the "van" and "von" mean "of" as in "lord of" and imply that the family claims to be of aristocratic birth. (The claim is not always factual, though.) With "ben," as Gili mentioned, the meaning is "son of"; the spelling, again, is what the person so named chooses. Jane Albright: William Lindsay Gresham wasn't an Oz Club member. I once asked Fred Meyer how the "Bugle" (Christmas 1960) came to publish Gresham's "Scarecrow to the Rescue" article, and he said that Gresham was a friend of Martin Gardner's, and it was Gardner who got the article for the Oz Club to print. You asked about the source of the statement that C.S. Lewis said he hadn't read any of the Oz books. That was the reprint (Autumn 1995) of Gresham's article: the editor put in a paragraph of background information, and mentioned that once when Gresham visited his sons in England, Martin Gardner asked him to ask Lewis if he'd read any of the Oz books. He did, and reported back that Lewis said he hadn't. Since it was in conversation, I suppose it's possible that Lewis might have read an Oz book or two and not remembered it clearly enough to recognize the name offhand, but Lewis was known for having such clear memories of everything he read that it doesn't seem likely. (And with such a brief question-and-answer, it seems likely that the Lewis-to-Gresham-to-Gardner-to-editor transmission is accurate in its account of what was said.) (And Nathan De Hoff wondered when the conversation would have taken place: looks as if it must have been sometime after December 1960 and before Lewis's death in 1963. I forgot to note down date of Gresham's death, but it was about the same time.) Barbara Belgrave: Yes, Baum chose Denslow as the artist for "Wizard of Oz." They'd already worked together on "Father Goose." // Del Rey didn't reprint entire Oz series because the sales figures weren't high enough to make it seem like a good idea. (If Judy Lynn Del Rey had lived a few years longer, she might have pushed for keeping it going.) // Death in Oz -- it really isn't until about the time of "Emerald City" that Baum decided there wasn't any death (or aging) there. There are various ways of trying to reconcile the inconsistencies that result. One possibility is to assume that the earlier references are in error. Another is to assume that there is no death by illness, but that death is possible (voluntary?) for someone living in intolerable pain (when torn in little bits, for example). // Heartache and nightmare -- aren't you thinking of the movie rather than the book in finding heartache in Dorothy's departure from Oz in "Wizard"? In the book, she seems only mildly regretful at leaving her new friends. Nightmare -- sensitive adults worry about the wolves and crows, but I doubt that any children do. I've known children to have nightmares over the witches and the Wizard as floating head (even those were perhaps more responses to the movie than to the book), but the general average of "scary" scenes is a good deal lower in the Oz books than in most of Grimm or Andersen. Doug Parker: Thanks for the additional information on Gibson. I'd imagine that Baum was partly influenced by her Gnome King in his use of gnomes and nomes, but there were a lot of Gnome Kings in 19th century operettas, notably in Wallace's "Lurline." My "Gnome Matters" Dunkiton pamphlet has more details about the development of gnomes. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 13:27:38 -0500 (EST) From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi! More Ozzy business... Barbara wrote: <> I doubt it, unless spirits can travel in time...since Disney was born in 1901, and Baum didn't die until 1919. <<1. Did Baum get to choose Denslow as an artist?>> Yes. They were friends and had previously collaborated on the successful FATHER GOOSE: HIS BOOK, so the book was written from the start on the assumption that he would be the artist. Baum and Denslow later quarrelled, but Baum always liked Denslow's art, preferring it to Neill's. <<2. Why didn't Del Rey continue and do all 40 FF books in paperbacks?>> The sales figures were low. And the death of the Del Rey editor who'd pushed the acquisition of the Thompson books (Judy-Lynn Benjamin, wife of imprint founder Lester Del Rey) left them with nobody to argue forcefully for their continuation. <<3. If there is no death in Oz, what about the Tin Woodman's parents and the wolves and the crows?>> This has been discussed in great detail; the amount of death in Oz seemed to gradually lessen, particularly after Ozma assumed the throne. (And it's never been established that it applies to animals, anyway...just to human beings.) <<4. Is anyone else confused when Baum says in the Intro that "the heartaches and nightmares are left out of the fairy tale"? I think there is plenty of heartache when Dorothy leaves Oz and if the killing of the wolves and crows doesn't scare some kids into a nightmare I'd be suprized.>> One never knows what will scare some kids, but on the whole I applaud Baum's intent of at least not trying to do so. Melody Grandy wrote: <> Unfortunately true, especially in the field of current comics (does anyone wonder why Eric Shanower left it?). I *would* draw a distinction, however, between killing a fictional character and killing a real person. I do think, however, that killing off other's people's characters is generally ill-advised and often mean-spirited. Max Collins, the writer of DICK TRACY at the time, justified his action for two reasons, one very flimsy and the other at least partially justifiable. He claimed that it had always seemed clear to him that Gould had been aiming for a romance between Junior and another regular character, Sparkle Plenty. Instead, Gould ultimately had Junior marry Moon Maid and Sparkle marry cartoonist Vera Alldid, and killing Moon Maid and divorcing Alldid was his way to restore what he saw as the proper state of affairs. (Which ignores the fact that it was Gould who had these marriages take place, and he was certainly entitled to do as he wished with his characters, or even change his mind about them. Many people who read Louisa May Alcott's LITTLE WOMEN thought Jo should have married Laurie; if Collins wrote a sequel to that book, would he have divorced Laurie from Jo's sister Amy, and killed off Jo's husband Professor Bhaer, in order to bring the two back together?) But Collins' other reason was that the strip, in Gould's final years, had ventured too far into the inappropriate realm of science fiction, and Moon Maid...who, as her name indicated, was a space alien from a colony established by her race on the Moon...was an unfortunate vestige of that, carrying the strip too far from its original concept of crimefighting featuring (relatively) realistic police heroes. To bring this back to an Ozzy context, it would be like a future Oz writer destroying the rather non-Ozzy Scalawagons in order to bring the country back toward what it traditionally has been, with travel being an adventure through unknown and fantastic lands rather than a short trip in a flying car. I wouldn't really want to destroy all the Scalawagons myself (they were thinking machines), but neither do I really want them in my Oz, FF or not. But there surely might be some way to get rid of them without destroying them...maybe there's an idea for a story there! Doug Parker wrote: <> Well, Uncle Henry's farm did have farmhands in OZMA, and Dorothy took a pet cat, rather than Toto, to Oz in DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD. But I'm not sure how much influence there was in either way, since children and adults very frequently, in fiction as well as fact, have pets, and dogs and cats have always been the most popular (though other animals sometimes follow trend; today there are a lot more pet gerbils, and a lot fewer pet monkeys, than 50 years ago). After all, even Lewis Carroll's Alice had a pet cat, Dinah, in ALICE'S ADVENTURES IN WONDERLAND (who'd had kittens by the time of THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS). And I know this has been mentioned before, but I think the three farmhands in the MGM movie who become Dorothy's companions are traceable to the silent 1925 version of THE WIZARD OF OZ. In that film, a much older Dorothy (Dorothy Dwan) lives on a farm with her aunt, uncle and three farmhands: Larry Semon (who also produced and directed the film), Oliver Hardy (before he teamed up with Stan Laurel and stepped into comedy immortality), and G. Howe Black (whose horrendous name-pun was exceeded only by his even more horrendous stereotyping; he was a black actor in the Stepin Fetchit mode without any of Fetchit's comedic presence). These three became, respectively, the Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, and Cowardly Lion...not through a dream but through disguise (since *this* Oz had no real magic, but only its humbug Wizard). Very strange, but it evidently stuck in the MGM screenwriters' minds! Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 12:04:28 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz All: The success of the Star Wars release has spurred interest in a rash of other classic releases. _The Wizard of Oz_ may be released in 2002 or a little later. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 16:00:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-01-97 Barbara-- Fred is recovering at his sister's house and I have been corresponding with him for some time about my project with obscure Oz films. Del Rey stopped with the Oz books when Judy-Lynn Del Rey died. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 15:36:59 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Oz (Compuserve members) I just came across this and knew that it had been a subject for discussion earlier: SEEING DOUBLE CompuServe has developed a new mail system that allows for personal, non-numeric addresses. Unfortunately, taking advantage of them takes some adjusting. In NavCIS 1.76, if you want to send e-mail to a CIS personal address, you will need to enter the personal address twice in the To: field. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 16:49:53 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Threeday's Oz Growls Scott - Just a friendly question. Isn't it possible for you to combine your dozen messages into a single message? You are taking up a rather inordinate amount of space with your repeated addresses. Dave - Please note it is David who broke your rule. :) Eleanor - I also bought one of those Sandman books that was supposed to be the greatest thing since Carl Barks. It was titled: "The Sandman - Season of Mists." I'm sorry, the art was "OK" but the story line was pathetic. Maybe someone could give me a better example of Gaiman's work. About Dorothy wanting Em. This seems really obvious. Haven't you ever heard a small child who is upset wailing, "I want my mommy!" Smaller children are usually more closely bonded to mommy. Although Em is not mommy, she is the surrogate as far as Dorothy is concerned. Once more with Bear's Used Book Theory - The used book stores in the East I have searched have been full of ragged junk. Really used. People must read alot back there. Hey, the weather is so bad, what else can they do besides hang out in the house. :) I don't think people move to the West without their favorite books. However, when they get here they see the sun shining and decide to go out and do it. The heck with books. So they sell them. As a result, the used book stores out here are filled with excellent books of all genres. I don't know where you got the idea that we are short on books? There are always going to be bookstores that think they have gold when it is only silver or brass. If they do this long enough, displaying books, rather than selling them, they go out of business and someone who is less greedy buys their stock and moves it. Prices in my area are quite reasonable and there are at least a dozen good stores that I hit from time to time. I love it! So, bad weather folks, keep on truckin those books out here. Bookishly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 16:03:55 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-01-97 Doug Parker: Hey! You're not the one who was the Wizard in that goofy Tinmanator anime, were you? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Mar 97 23:58:28 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "HEXED" DIGESTS: Does anyone besides John see a correlation between long (over 32k) Digests and getting hex codes in the Digest? If so, then I think this is further evidence that my cheesy "free" version of Eudora doesn't like messages over 32k, in which case I may have to start dividing large Digests into two parts (Whee! Funtime for your Digest editor!) GRAPHIC NOVELS AND KILLINGS OFF: Rich M. wrote: > Unfortunately true, especially in the field of current comics (does anyone >wonder why Eric Shanower left it?). Might comic editors, insistant on "dark" fantasy, explain the somber mood (vindictive Zurline and all) of the Shanower graphic novels? >Many people who read Louisa May Alcott's LITTLE >WOMEN thought Jo should have married Laurie; if Collins wrote a sequel to >that book, would he have divorced Laurie from Jo's sister Amy, and killed off >Jo's husband Professor Bhaer, in order to bring the two back together?) Speaking as an Alcott fan, she clearly had good reason for marrying everyone as she did, and Jo says as much when Laurie proposes to her...Laurie needs a social life with high society...Something which Amy loves and Jo despises. On the other hand, Jo and the Professor have a mutual compatibity with wanting a quiet, modest existance running an idyllic school! BEWARE THE WRATH THAT IS TO COME :) : (The following comments are from Jellia Jamb who asked me to insert them... -- Dave) Ozgrif@aol.com wrote: > My name is Ralph Griffith and I write a comic book called OZ for Calibur >Comics. I was wondering if any Oz fans have seen it? Oooo...*Have* we ever! :) >And [also] what they thought of it. Hang on...I think I'm gonna have to fetch the mop... :) >I must admit it is quite a different take on the oz mythos but >we try to use many of the original ideas with a few twists. Pretzels anyone? :) >I found your sight most impressive >and will be using it quite a bit as a source for ideas. You can't make *me* into an evil nightmarish monster...My union is very clear on that point! :) >Thanks for your time and information. And thanks to Dave for allowing a modest maid like me to post here...He says he's going to start letting us Emerald City folks post more regularly to the Digest...(YAY!) ( And Dave asked me to remind everyone that Mr Griffith is not a member of the Digest so please reply to him privately, although I'm dying to hear what you all have to say myself! :) ) ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 5, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 10:09:50 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-04-97 > (Sorry there was not 3/3/97 Digest...You humble editor > has had a bad cold... -- Dave) You made up for it by sending the 3-4 digest three times. > > From: Barbara Belgrave > > > You mention, and I have heard others mention "Oz Christmas Cards of Fred > > Meyers". What cards are these? Did I somehow get missed from the IWOC > > Christmas Card List? Boo Hoo!!!! Fred said they go to the entire IWOC membership mailing list, but sometimes there are glitches (Eric Shanower didn't get one!) A letter to him will get you a late card. However, past cards are probably not available. > > > How's Fred Meyer doing these days? I haven't heard anything of him in a > > few months. He seems to be about the same. He does plan to attend the Ozmapolitan Convention this year. If discussion of THE [MARVELOUS] LAND OF OZ is beginning, an opening shot: Baum only decided to write a second Oz book after the success of the musical WIZARD OF OZ, his greatest financial success. He planned the second book to be stage adapted (the result, THE WOGGLE-BUG, was a flop). This esplains the army of Girls and the many excurciating puns. Stage audiences adored them. Do other traces of staginess show up in this book? Neill's illustrations for LAND are much stiffer than in later books. The Griffin Monbi is magnificent, however. Steve T. ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 14:01:03 -0500 (EST) From: Mark K DeJohn <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-04-97 From: Barbara DeJohn Hello everyone !!! I know that we are kind of past this topic but I also had dreams of finding Oz books. This was when I was missing alot of RPT books. I haven't had this dream for a while so maybe it's because I now have sources for new Oz books. Dick - I'm sure you will be back from Disney by the time we get there. We are leaving on March 17th. I am sooooo excited !!! Dave - I received three copies of today's Digest. Are you still interested in having me research the t-shirt and buttons? Do you need my address again? Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 20:38:32 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAYS OZ GROWLS HOPEFULLY Prof Steve - I'd hate to be your child. You would probably expect me to eat prime rib before I had teeth. So maybe you can consider Disney's stories "pablum." A lot of Grimm's tales were written when they had public executions too. Thank goodness that Disney does produce some gentler and kinder fare. Don't we have enough blood, gore, depravity, cruelty, etc. in current media to satisfy your tastes? There is sure more than is healthy for today's youth. Tyler - What I saw was an article indicating that the next big Star Wars-type epic was going to be Lord of the Rings. Not a crummy animated version either. What a disappointment that was. I'll bet Robin is ready to go down and help them get going on it. It is still in the talking stage. The owner of the movie rights is Saul Zaentz, who produced The English Patient. The article I read mentioned that over 25 million copies of the trilogy have been sold. In any event I don't get the release of WOZ. It is released. Please explain. Dave - On Compuserve, when your Digest is "large" which I think is over 30K, it arrives as a notice and has to be "retrieved." This process is actually faster than simply downloading a long message, required about a second per 1K. I have made no correlation between the "hex" and length. FWIW. Regards, Bear (:<) ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 19:05:29 -0700 (MST) From: estelle@usa.net (Estelle E. Klein) Subject: Oz Jeopardy As a joke, in response to the final Jeopardy topic this evening- which was Literature- Rebecca and I yelled out, of course, "WOZ"- before we even saw the answer... well, as some of you may have seen, here was the answer... "The book published in 1900 whose 8th chapter is entitled, The Deadly Poppy Field." Mild hysteria rang from my family room... ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 21:09:08 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Something seems to be going on here. The Hexidecimal curse came back for a short time, posts are disappearing, mails bomb in mid-send, and many web pages cannot be accessed. Does anybody have any facts/rumors, etc? Nathan: MY Ozzy Proejcts are going on at a super-slow rate. Whenever I can, I work on them, and someday some of them may actually get publised. My paper "The Seven Ages of Oz" needs a lot of work, given the amount of discussion and new information revealed on the Ozzy digest, but I'm trying... :-) Web Page: CompuServe seems to be slow lately. Hopefully, this problem will resolve itself, and people will be able to access my newly-done web page soon: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tylerjones If I did not mention it before, I noted that Jinnicky owns slaves, and his Ozzy associates do not seem to mind very much. February: The Ozzy Digest for Feb. 97 has been fully archived. Jeremy: I'm glad you finally got through to my we page! It looks like the Nomes are no longer messing around with CompuServe. If you mean that Baum took the easy way out in the situation with the WWW by having her killed, you may be right. Certainly, it would have required extra work on the part of Dorothy and crew to either convert her into a friend or to render her powerless, although their quest the whole time was to kill her, and not to take her broomstick, as so many MGM-fans believe. Even that may not explain it all, as her death was accidental, and I doubt very much that Dorothy could have cold-bloodedly plotted her murder. Perhaps this was a convenient way out: The witch was out of the picture and nobody had to deliberately do anything cruel. Eleanor: family. Prior to her permanent move to Oz, she mentioned several times that the only reason she wants to leave Oz is to go back to Aunt Em and Uncle Henry, meaning that "home is where the heart is". As for her mention of Aunt Em only, I would imagine that her aunt and uncle have taken the place of her parents, physically and emotionally, and people (especially at that age) tend to think of their mother first when they are lost and want to go home. Nit-Picking: California has ALMOST, but not quite, the combined population of Texas and New York, although the gap between 1 and 2 is far greater than any other gap if you list the states by population. Barbara: I can answer only one of your questions. Del Rey discontinued the FF since sales were disappointing. This is unfortunate, of course, since I naturally believe that the Oz books are far superior to all current children's literature. However, parents usually choose the books their kids read, and maybe Oz wasn't good enough for them. Age: My great-grandfather walks a little stiffly, but he's less than a year away from 101, so he's allowed, although most would consider that age old :-) Death in Oz: I believe that there is ample evidence that death occured prior to Ozma's ascension to the throne and even after, in very special cases. Slavery: How do we know that Ozma is opposed to slavery? Her agents forced Krewl to change his name to Grewl and to become a gardener, presumably for the rest of eternity. Depending on your sensitivities, you can imprison someone, fine them, exile them, or even execute them, but this sounds a little like slavery to me. Also, the gypsies in _Ojo_ were transformed into farmers, and it seems to me that there were other cases in and out of the FF in which people (mainly former villains) were forced into some sort of service forever. Craig: That is a good observation. On some occasions, people have wished themselves to be in Oz, and then wound up in some less-than-perfect part of Oz. In Ryan Gannaway's new book, our heroine realizes this and wishes herself to the Emerald City. Jeremy: On the contrary, HICC books are often very well written stories, they just don't jibe with the FF. Of course, some people will say nasty things about them that aren't true, but they are good nonetheless. Death in Oz: One theory is that deathlessness was a slow process, beginning with Lurline's enchantment and culminating with Ozma ascending the throne. _Emerald City_ is the first of the FF to take place mostly in Oz after Ozma began her rule. Using Michael Patrick Hearn's theory of the enchantment having full effect only after Ozma's rule combined with my MOPPeT of Ozma's enchantment messing up the schedule combined with Aaron's MOPPeT about magical hotspots such that the enchantment may have taken effect faster in some areas and slower in others, and you have ample explanation of seeming inconsistencies. Of course, the implication is that people can still be destoryed if the magic is powerful enough. --Tyler Jones ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 22:31:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The End of the Scalawagons of Oz? 1) Rich, I've always presumed that something happened which got rid of the scalawagons (I really hate that term; think about what it means) between the periods of Royal Historianship of Neill and Snow, mostly because they never show up again (except in Laumer's work) and also because I didn't like the idea of a sentient vehicle which was manufactured as a slave in the first place and didn't think such a thing belonged in any version of Oz. If you care for a nonoffensive hypothesis of what happened to them, I suggest that after talking to pets, who in Oz choose their own human companions, the scalawagons decided that they were getting a lousy deal and petitioned Ozma for their freedom. Not wanting to have to listen to Prof. Wogglebug, the standing prosecutor of Oz, recite yet another high-faluting and lengthy speech, especially as the Tin Woodman refused to act as defender again in court, she granted their wish and gave them an uninhabited island in the southern Nonestic. There the scalawagons promptly set up an agrarian society and had a bumper crop of gasoline and motor oil the following spring. 2) Tyler, I'd much prefer if they remade _The Wizard of Oz_ from scratch, this time making something faithful to the book, than if they rereleased the original. Imagine what they could do with a computer-animated Scarecrow and Tin Woodman! Come to think of it, they'd probably have to animate the Cowardly Lion to unless they could teach a real lion to act... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 07:01:15 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 3/2 Digest DavidXOE asks, I found my copy in a second hand book store. The spine says "Reilly & Lee" but the book carries no dating other than the 1918 dates of the original. The illustrations by Dale Ulrey "adapted form original drawings by John R. Neill" are clean and nice, but not up to the originals. Polychrome is depicted as a lithe, attractive young woman. Please excuse me while I drool for a moment. ;-) This from the 3/1 "USA Today" Life section, in the article on the success of the Star Wars movies reissue: ... "Executives at various studios say they also are looking at possible reissues of _The Wizard of Oz_, _Funny Girl_, _The Way We Were_, _Casablanca_, _Dr. Zhivago_ and the first three _Superman_ movies. ... "After _2001_, Reardon says, _The Wizard of Oz_ will follow, though again it's too early to say in what form." ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 08:33:01 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Warren H. Baldwin: I don't think the "Vicomte de Bragelonne" quotation you found, referring to "the roar of a hungry tiger or an impatient lion," is really likely to have influenced Baum. It might be different if you found a pattern of many parallels between Baum or Dumas, or biographical evidence to indicate that Baum was a devoted Dumas fan, but just by itself the parallel is not a particularly close one. Tigers are proverbially hungry, and "impatient" in this sense is not likely to have anything to do with "anxious" ("inquiet," "agite," "plein d'inquietude" I won't try for accent markings) much less with "cowardly" ("poltron," "lache," "craintive"). I can't see that an English translator would be at all likely to hit on "impatient" for anything in that range. English "impatient" means almost exactly the same as French "impatient," and in this context I'd assume that it is the precise term and means "impatient to be fed," i.e., as hungry as the tiger. (Then, too, Baum didn't initially think of the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger as a pair the Lion showed up in "Wizard," and the Tiger not until "Ozma," the third book.) Herm Bieber and Robin Olderman: Thanks for the information on bookhealing= . Dave Hardenbrook: Hope you're over your cold, or on the way. Rich Morrissey: I think it's slightly incorrect to describe JudyLynn Benjamin as merely the wife of Lester Del Rey, and Lester as the imprint founder of Del Rey books. They were both the founders of the imprint, and she (as a longtime Ballantine Books editor) was perhaps somewhat more the founder of the imprint than he (until then primarily known as a writer) was. Ruth Berman ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 17:35:57 +0100 From: Bill Wright Subject: oz digest Barbara: Your question in the 1 MAR Digest: >You talked sometime back about a .fif file. Can we download a fif viewer >from the address you gave us and do you have the Oz pics to view with it? That is a .gif and .jpg file, the two basic types on the internet today. If you have a web browser and go to my website, you will find Oz illustrations on many of the pages. Your web browser automatically displays them so you don't need a special viewer or other software. Hope this helps. (BTW ----- they display much better in Netscape than Microsoft IE. For some reason I have yet to delve into, MS does funny things to the colors, appearing not to use all of the color table that down loads with each image.) Bill in Ozlo ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 12:51:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Koupal, Nancy" Subject: Oz Digest item Ruth Berman and Doug Parker--Thank you so much for the information about Eva Katherine Gibson--it has resparked my interest in her. I apologize for not responding earlier, but I am working long hours just now and not able to read my email for long stretches of time. What few sources I can locate indicate that Clapp is Gibson's maiden name--she married a Dr. C. B. Gibson in 1892. In addition to the books you list from the National Union Catalogue, she also wrote Songs of Red Rose Land, Patriotic Song, and Famous Lovers. But I had never seen the subtitle to a Woman's Triumph listed before, so that gives me hope that it will produce some clues about her western experiences, if any. I have asked the library here to interlibrary loan that title. If I discover anything interesting, I'll let you know. Thanks also for the tip about Bowling Green. When my workload settles down, I will try to follow up on that. Cordially, Nancy Tystad Koupal ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Mar 97 13:39:16 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Earl wrote: >Polychrome is depicted as a lithe, attractive young woman. >Please excuse me while I drool for a moment. ;-) I'm always glad to see that there are other Oz fans who aren't ashamed of their "drooling"! :) :) :) -- Dave ======================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 6, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 19:22:02 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-05-97 Richard: Re "the next big Star Wars-type epic" being Lord of the Rings--I'd like to see them get around to doing another Oz-based epic someday! One that rectified the errors Return to Oz created. (Unfortunately for Chris, Ms. Balk--I can't spell her first name--will be too old for the part . . .) By the way, I'm curious as to what you mean by "Today's Oz growls hopefully". I'm not at all keen on Oz starting to growl . . . Tyler: I think that the WWW is sending the hexidecimal plague from her grave. After all, she could send wolves and crows and bees and Monkeys after Dorothy and company--what makes us so sure that just because Dorothy melted her, she can't send hexidecimals too? Okay, perhaps we'd have a little consistency problem--after all, we've not seen hide nor hair of her since WIZARD--but still . . . By the way, I tried your page again today and was unsuccessful. Whatever that implies. Okay, now what are HICC books? I realize we all have our hiccups and downs, but I'd really like to know. Ruth B.: What's with the smiley faces? I think my computer translated some of your hyphens/dashes in an odd way--it didn't happen with anyone else's posting. Still, Oz well that ends well . . . --Jeremy Steadman jsteadman@loki.berry.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 20:21:42 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Bear: I meant that it was going to be re-released on the big screen, as apparantly are many other classic movies. I don't see "E.T." doing as well as "Star Wars", however. Estelle: Did any of the contestants correctly guess the response to the Ozzy answer? Aaron: Don't tease me. I have been praying for a movie/cartoon based more closely on the book for most of my life. There was some attempt at that a while back, but it appears to have fizzled. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 20:31:57 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Aaron >this time making something faithful to the book.... Is that what Tyler meant? Aaron, the day ANY movie is made that is "faithful" to the book is the day all the screen writers will jump off a bridge, hand-in hand. I know the arguments about written and visual media. Hmmmm. Well, let's be fair. Can anyone think of examples that were seriously "faithful" to the book? No fair slipping in something that was a movie first, like "Willow." Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 20:59:42 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-04-97 Rich: The science fiction element in "Tracy" did seem out of place--still I hated seeing Moonmaid violently killed. You're right--the death of a fictional character is not the same as a real one (and I had a really nice supervisor who was also murdered by a bomb rigged to explode in her van! I was furious that anyone could do a thing like that.). Still, one wonders if people who like to see innocent fictional characters die are equally bloodthirsty when it comes to innocent real people. And your comparison of getting rid of Amy and Dr. Baer in "Little Woman" so Jo and Laurie could get back together was excellent. As a child, I wanted Jo to marry Laurie, too. Only when I saw the latest remake of "Little Women" did I understand Jo's choice--Laurie did not understand how much her writing meant to her ("If you marry me, you won't have to write unless you want to), and Bhaer did. I hated to see Amy get Laurie, 'cause she's the one who burned Jo's stories. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 21:00:58 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-04-97 >> 4. Is anyone else confused when Baum says in the Intro that "the > heartaches and nightmares are left out of the fairy tale"? I think there is > plenty of heartache when Dorothy leaves Oz and if the killing of the wolves > and crows doesn't scare some kids into a nightmare I'd be suprized< Stephen Teller is right. Also, in the Lang fairy books of different colors, I don't remember a single animal story that wasn't violent in the extreme. The animal characters eat each other, burn each other, and are really, really treacherous. Innocent characters are often on the receiving end of the mayhem. Baum is tame compared to the ancient predecessors featured by Lang. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 00:36:11 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Book Repair - III A GLUEING SHORT CUT Glue takes time to dry, and you shouldn't rush things. But if you are really in a hurry you can accelerate the drying in a microwave on the low setting. But this is tricky. If you use too much power or leave it on too long, the whole book will cook. It will first brown, then char, and finally catch fire. Use small time increments and feel the book. Don't let it get too hot to hold. CORNERS Corners of book receive a lot of stress, and eventually get flexed enough so that the underlying cardboard delaminates. Then the corners become soft and may show a permanent bend. Such books are termed "bumped" in the trade. To fix this, slice the cloth along the center of the cardboard edge on both sides of the bumped portion. Peel the cloth back to reveal a triangle of cardboard. You can flex this portion to reveal the individual delaminated "leaves" of cardboard. With a toothpick, put some flexible glue between each loose leaf and also on the outside of the cardboard. Replace the cloth, and squeeze the "sandwich" with the fingers. Wipe off some of the excess glue that squeezes out. Carefully wrap the cloth around the cardboard edge so that the cut edges butt together. There should be enough glue left on the outside to hold these cut edges. Wrap a piece of wax paper tightly around the glued corner to make sort of a triangular pocket. This will also serve to hold the cloth edges in place while the glue is drying. Place a 2" square of Masonite or stiff plastic on each side of the corner and hold in place with a clamp under moderate pressure. The idea here is to have the glued up corner the same thickness as the adjacent whole cardboard. When dry, the corner will be as sharp as a new book. On many well-used books, the cloth will have worn through at the corner so there is no need to razor blade it. Follow the same proceedure. By pulling on the cloth, it should be possible to cover most or all of the cardboard except maybe along the edges. The finished product may look a little rounded at the corners because of abrasion of the cardboard, but the corner will be stiff again, and further delamination into the cover will have been halted. If you are a purist, you can build up the rounded corner to be square with thin fragments of cardboard or paper mache, and use bits or threads of matching cloth to replace any cloth missing at the edges. (get these materials from an Oz breaker; in fact, if you are ever throwing out an Oz book that is beyond hope, save the boards and spine, the end papers [if any], any blank pages, the first and last printed pages, and, of course, any plates. These are the parts most likely to be needed to restore "reading copies", and most useful for other repairs.) SPINES a) spine end wear Spines also get bumped and worn, especially at the top and bottom edges. In making the spine, the cloth is generally folded over to make a smooth, and also stiffer, edge. (This folded over portion is termed "F" below.) Sizing is also used to make the cloth more sturdy. Sort of like a cuff on a starched shirt. There may also be flexible paper glued to the inside of the spine to stiffen it. The idea is to keep the spine flexible, yet not so weak that it will pucker, bulge or crack when the book is opened and shut. book about 170o. This will move the gatherings (backing) away from the spine. Slip a narrow rectangle of wax paper between the spine and the gatherings. This rectangle should obviously be as wide as the spine and somewhat longer than the book. You can now operate on the spine without fear of gluing it to the backing. Cut a one inch strip of matching cloth to be as wide as the spine. Fold it in half. If the fold isn't sharp, iron it. If the spine end cloth is not worn through all the way across, cut it across the top with a small scissors, and also cut away the old inner flap (F) by cutting down along the hinge. (Be careful not to cut the outside spine cloth along the hinge.) Glue the cloth strip (new "F") to the spine cloth making sure the folded edge is even with the top of the book. to avoid pucker, slip a curved thin ruler or a curved strip of plastic between the wax paper and the spine to serve as a temporary backing while pressing things together. This shim should match the natural curve of the spine cloth as much as possible. This new "F" must also be draped over any stiffening paper, if present. (If the paper was removed with the old "F", then it can be built up again by gluing new paper to the old futher down inside the spine. Use knitting needles or a curved spatula to manipulate. Finally, glue the 1/2 " edges of "F" to the old cloth & cardboard in the hinges. Again a knitting needle is useful. Finally, after all is dry, turn the book over and do the other side. This is all not as complicated as it sounds. Again, the best way to learn is to first try it on a book that isn't an heirloom. b) Spine outer hinge repair Spine cloth torn or worn along the hinges is repaired by cutting a 1/4" wide rectangle of gauze (from a book repair firm) that is as long as the crack. Using wax paper backing, glue the cloth stub attached to the cover cardboard onto the gauze. If there is no stub, e.g. if the tear is flush with the cardboard edge, use an Exacto knife to lift 1/8" of the cover cloth off the cardboard, and glue the gauze between the cloth and the cardboard. The idea is to have a flexible gauze stub to which the spine cloth can be glued. After the stub is dry, glue the spine cloth onto the gauze, making sure to butt it against the opposing cloth so that the gauze doesn't show in the crack. Use a curved shim between the spine and the backing to maintain the right curvature in the spine, and also wax paper so the spine does not adhere to the backing. Often the finished repair looks lighter along the crack because of thread wear in the cloth. In this case touch it up with the appropriate permanent ink. CLOTH TEARS This is usually a problem with the back panel. Some little monsters are taken to slashing covers with knives, and cats can do a good claw sharpening job on your Handy Mandy. Using an Exacto knife or razor blade, cut under the rear fixed end paper about 1/2" on all three side where it overlaps the cloth, or as far as the cloth overlap extends under the end paper. Cut the cloth on a straight line 1/8" away from the edge of the cardboard on the spine side, also extending the cut around into the inside cloth overlap. Then carefully peel the rear panel cloth away from the cardboard. Use a razor if the cardboard sticks substantially to the cloth and begins to tear. Also remove the rear cloth from a matching Oz breaker that has a sound rear panel. However in this case make the spine cut inside the hinge crease, close to the spine. Spread glue onto the rear cardboard panel being repaired, but not on the 1/8" cloth stub along the hinge. Carefully position the "new" cloth, making sure to align the overlap creases properly. Let dry thoroughly under pressure so things don't warp. Then glue the three overlap edges onto the inner cardboard side and let dry under pressure. Put wax paper between the overlap and the loosened endpaper during this step. Finally glue down the loosened endpaper edges onto the new cloth. Place a full page size piece of wax paper over the margins so the opposing (free) endpaper won't stick to the repair. Close the book and put a substantial weight on the book while it is drying. The last step is to put glue under the small cloth flap on the hinge side. Work this into the crease with a knitting needle or small dowel. With a little care, the cloth hinge will look normal, and the cloth edge is hidden in the crease. END PAPER REPAIR a) Free endpapers Free endpapers are either loose or missing. Loose endpapers are tipped in the same as plates. Missing endpapers must be replaced with the like from another book. When cutting out endpapers, cut close to the front cover cardboard, so you have enough page material to form the new paper hinge, and also to hide the edge in the hinge crease. If you inherit an endpaper that is too narrow, you can still use it to build a hinge, but the endpaper will be short on the outer side, a problem that doesn't look too offensive. A more elegant technique is to use a half inch wide strip of Reilly & Lee paper from the blank margin of an Oz page and glue this to the fixed endpaper as in hinge repair. use wax paper under the stub left over after making the hinge, so any errant glue doesn't stick it to the wrong place. Let dry. Then put glue onto the open face of the stub and overlap the too narrow endpaper onto the stub, keeping the free side of the endpaper flush with the other pages. Keep the wax paper underneath the stub, and place a second creased wax paper over the stub and endpaper. Close the book carefully and let dry under pressure. b) Fixed endpaper. The is rarely missing, but it may be crayoned, stained, or otherwise disfigured. It is almost impossible to remove a glued in endpaper in one piece, so use a free endpaper from another book for repairs. Note that the rear free endpaper is the same as the front fixed endpaper and vice versa. The easiest method is simply to trim the new endpaper on the torn or cut side, and then glue it over the old endpaper. If the thickness offends you, you can first sand off the old endpaper. Do not try to soak it off, as the dyes in many R&L covers can run. PAPER LABEL REPAIR a) Scratches Scratches readily penetrate the ultrathin colored image leaving white lines. These can be filled in with indelible ink pens of the appropriate color. Some earlier books such as Emerald City and Dorothy and the Wizard had labels with a thick transparent plastic over the image. This solt plastic scuffs easily and, even if the image is not scratched, the label's appearance can be quite distressing. This can be fixed by placing the book flat on an old newspaper, label up, and using a carpenter's level, carefully level the book with paper shims. Then use masking tape to protect the cloth edges and the page edges undeneath. Do NOT get the masking tape on the label; it will not release and tear the label when you later try to remove it. Use a clear polyurethane spray can, like Krylon, and spray the cover label until it is just wet. The idea here is to use the minumum, but it has to be wet so the paint runs into the low (scuffed) regions. When thoroughly dry, run a blade lightly around the mask edges (do not cut into the cloth!), and carefully peel off the tape. This is not as easy as it sounds; again, PRACTICE before you spray your Dorothy first state. b) Total Labelotomy It is extraordinarily difficult to soak a label off one book to transfer it to another. Not only may the cloth color run, but the glue used was superb. The only intact labels I've seen came off from books that had been stored in very high humidity for years. Maybe the bacteria ate the glue! The best source of labels are the book jackets of later printings. You can cut these to size (you even get two cover labels per jacket!). Then either glue them over the old label or sand it off first. That usually suffices, but purists may note that the original labels had more "shine" than the dj images. That can be remedied by LIGHTLY spraying with Krylon as above. (But don't be carried away with this knowledge. A dealer once tried to sell me a 2nd edition Hidden Valley with a gorgeous cover label. He didn't realize that the 2nd edition never had a paper label!) PAGE REPLACEMENT The best course is to find an Oz discard and transfer the missing or damaged page as in tipping in a plate. Unfortunately all editions do not have the same size page, and the page you are tipping in may be too small. Larger pages can, of course be trimmed. The other method is to Xerox the image onto drawing paper, which has texture close to Reilly and Lee paper. Then cut to size and tip in. The page will be too white, compared to the aged paper in the book, but if you just want to fix a book to sell as a reading copy, that's probably good enough. For a better look, you must "age" the replacement page to match the browning of the adjacent pages. This can be done in a 250oF. oven or a microwave set on medium. You will need to make several copies, and then "heat soak" them for various times to achieve the closest color match. If you are a real master of Xerox positioning, you can xerox onto a blank page from an old Oz book, In this case, the paper color may well match the aged look of the rest of the pages. -------- The methods above are all labor intensive, and many are not feasible for use by dealers trying to make a living (except for a few high-end books). Rather it is a labor of love for one's own collection, or just for personal satisfaction. I have several times been asked to restore well loved childhood Oz books. The owner could have bought fine copies for less, but she had a sentimental attachment to those books. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 08:41:56 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-05-97 > > Prof Steve - I'd hate to be your child. You would probably expect me to > eat prime rib before I had teeth. So maybe you can consider Disney's > stories "pablum." A lot of Grimm's tales were written when they had public > executions too. Thank goodness that Disney does produce some gentler and > kinder fare. Don't we have enough blood, gore, depravity, cruelty, etc. in > current media to satisfy your tastes? There is sure more than is healthy > for today's youth. > > Regards, Bear (:<) Actually I am a very kindly person, as I hope my seven-year-old son will verify. I was only noting that Disney, when it was run by Walt Disney, provided purified versions of those fairy tales which they filmed. This might be a sort of 1930's-1960s Political Correctness. Pinnochio does not throw a hammer and kill Jiminy Cricket as his original did. I do not say that I regret this, it is a matter of faithfulness to the source. The Disney annimations are artifacts in their own right and should not really be judged in terms of their sources. Some of the more recent Disney tales deviate quite distinctly from their historical or literary sources. I liked HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE-DAME in spite of its complete alteration of Hugo's great book. However, I must say I am not sorry that Disney did not make animations of the later Oz books. The every so gentle Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 11:40:11 -0500 (EST) From: EC9500@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Hi Dave, and Everybody! Walt Disney World is terrific, and the weather is like mid-July. Having a great time, with kids & grandkids Regards to all Dick (dixnam@aol.com) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 11:51:35 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-05-97 Estelle- I also had a strongs suspicion that the answer on Jeopardy! would be about Oz. It was weird that it actually was. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 11:57:05 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-05-97 Who said they saw _El Mago de Oz_ on the spanish channel? Was it that hilarious Mexican minimalist stage version of the MGM film, with "Just Call Smarmy" and Profesr Maravilla singing "Do you hear me? " for the Jitterbug, or was it something else. This is the one I have. The film was shot on poor quality video, but is still interesting. It was made in 1985, and the official title is "Mago de Oz Cuento de Frank Baum." -Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 12:01:15 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-05-97 Aaron-- I actually started a script for a film titled "L. Frank Baum's The Wonderful Wizard of Oz," but I scrapped it for being too rigid and metteur-en-scene like. If I ever get to be a filmmaker, I'd want to make one, though. Maybe if I got to adapt my novel, which is very small scale, and would not require big stars or a huge SFX budget, and have a fair amount of success, it would be possible. Too bad I can't afford film school. Film Studies is my minor. I probably have enough credits in it for a major, but that isn't offered where I'm going. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 12:04:25 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-05-97 Earl--Eric Richard and I are convinced that there is a possiblility of a 112 minute special edition of _The Wizard of Oz_ early in the next decade, considering the condition of the Scarecrow's dance, it seems unlikely that the other segments "no longer exist," and if they wer incomplete, imagine computer animated bees, jitterbugs, and rainbow bridge. Of cours, nobody would pull Lucas's trick of taking the old one out of circulation permanently if they did. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 97 10:52:09 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things With all the fairy tales and other stories still left unadapted for the screen ( including most of the Oz books! :) ), why Disney wanted to do something like _Hunchback of Notre Dame_ is beyond me. Although I haven't seen _Hunchback_ yet, so maybe I shouldn't knock it 'til I've tried it... BTW, I just saw a book showing the art designs for the next Disney feature, Hercules. As far as great artwork, it IMHO looks like it will be closer to _Toot, Whistle, Plunk and Boom_ than to _Snow White_, Pinocchio or _Fantasia_...The godesses all look like Barbie dolls for a start... Jellia: Maybe Disney *shouldn't* so an adaptation of an Oz book... *I* don't want to be made to look like a Barbie doll! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 7, 1997 (Part 1 of 2) *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] (Eudora is screaming at me because today's Digest is over 32k, so I'm trying to partition it... -- Dave) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 13:46:16 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Doug P.: I enjoyed your comments on the extra-structural references in the Dainty China Country episode. Michael Patrick Hearn has a good explanation for the appropriateness of those contested chapters 19-22 in his annotations to WWOZ: after the Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, and Lion have received their symbolic attributes from the Wizard, "each now prizes the symbol above its property. The purpose of the journey to Glinda is to develop their ability to use their qualities (now that they have the public symbols for them) through the experience of adventures in the unknown." In this regard, the MGM film really does no service to the Scarecrow, the Woodman, and the Lion by completing their respective quests at the point where they react with childlike glee to the obviously empty and ludicrous symbols that the Wizard bestows on them. (I do think that the Wizard's advice to the Woodman on the way a heart is judged is very fine, though.) So in that sense Baum was right in tacking on those extra chapters. But this is one of those cases where you agree intellectually with what an author is doing but can't assent emotionally. Something is wrong with the last part of the book. I think that the reason that it isn't completely satisfying has to do with Dorothy. Up to Chapter 17, Dorothy and her three companions have shared the same quest: to get to the Wizard, to kill the witch, to demand that the Wizard fulfill his promise. But the following chapters have little to do with the progress of Dorothy's quest. As far as she is concerned, it would have been much simpler just to put on the magic cap and go straight to Glinda (or for Glinda to come to Dorothy, as in the movie). For that matter, the Scarecrow's belated idea that the three of them could use the cap to get to Glinda smacks of the similar and often attacked denouement of _Dorothy and the Wizard_, where Dorothy's recollection of the Magic Belt comes a little too late for credibility. In the movie, of course, Dorothy's quest is primary, and for that reason Chapters 19-22 had to be deleted. I honestly don't know what Baum could have done to get around this structural problem of divergent quests. And it is probably true that the Dainty China Country episode, with its less apparent connections to the development of any of the characters, is the point at which the reader's patience is most strained. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 15:01:19 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-06-97 i finally got the bookmark made into a jpg if anyoen wants it let me know its to big to send to the list acutally the person made it into a bmp its a cool bookmark with the information superhighway crossing the yellow brick road and the munchkins are handing dorthy and crew some pcs write me privatetly off the list if u want this ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 14:40:15 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Steve Teller: You mentioned the army of girls and excessive punning in "Land" as showing Baum's intention of making a stage play out of it. There's been a good deal of scattered comment on that topic. Fred Meyer, in "Dramatic Influence on Oz" (Best of the Baum Bugle 61- 62), included those two points, also the fact that the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman (who, as impersonated by Montgomery and Stone, had been the most popular characters in the stage "Wizard") were major characters. Dan Mannix, in "Off to See the Wizard" (Best 67-69) added the dedication of "Land" to Montgomery and Stone, the girl-faced sunflowers (for equivalent staging of the "Wizard" poppies), the fact that Tip turns into a girl (a plot development that was pretty standard in plays where the main character was a boy who was going to be expected to be played by a young woman), and the inclusion of satire on the suffragette movement (more likely to interest grownups, who would be present in a theater audience in large numbers, than the children would be the majority of readers). And Peter Glassman, in his afterword to the Books of Wonder edition, commented that the scene between the Scarecrow and Jack Pumpkinhead, with the rapid-patter cross-purposes conversation and the knockabout physical humor of pushing Jack to sit down sounded like something meant to be staged. Aaron Adelman: I like your hypothesis that the Scalawagons might have wanted freedom and left Oz. Herm Bieber: Thanks for the further repair lesson. I think I might try Corners, although the rest sounds beyond me. There seemed to be part of a sentence missing in Spine section (2nd paragraph). Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 16:13:23 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-04 & 05-97 3/4: Robin: Thanks for the information on the Ulrey-illustrated TIN WOODMAN. I'll have to keep an eye out for it; didn't know of the variant illustrations. Atticus: I checked the World Almanac for typical children's heights; the average child passes 4 feet somewhere between ages 7 and 8. 5 feet, on the other hand, isn't reached by the average child until age 13, so if you were 5 feet in 5th grade you were old for your grade (seems unlikely) or unusually tall for your age. (The average 10-year-old - typical of 5th grade - is 4'6".) Dorothy was supposed to be "well-grown" for her age; on the other hand, average heights a century ago were probably not what they are now. (Certainly they aren't for adults; it seems unlikely that all of the increase in growth has come in the teen years.) Four feet tall would be unusually tall for a 6-year-old now and was probably even more so in Dorothy's day. Serena: The Thompson reprints from Del Rey were fighting several uphill battles - for one, the books were odd-size, so they wouldn't fit standard mass-market PB racks, and for another, they came out of the SF-fantasy side of the publisher rather than the children's-book side, which meant that in effect they were being marketed to adults who remembered Oz rather than children who might have become interested in it or adults who were looking for books for their children to read. This combines with the fact that most of the early Thompsons are rather mediocre, so that casual buyers of the early books in the series probably weren't much impressed. By the time they got to the better ones the trade probably wasn't inclined to give them much shelf space. John W.: While it's true that the "big problem" in EMERALD CITY (the Nome King's invasion) is solved with no real effort on the part of the protagonists, it also has to be recognized that the protagonists of that book spent little time worrying about that problem. This is as opposed to DOTWIZ and PATCHWORK GIRL, where the protagonists are working hard at trying to solve the "big problem" of those books almost all the way through, only to find at the crisis that (a) their efforts were doomed to failure, and (b) that they hadn't needed to make them in the first place because the problem was going to be solved anyhow. The reader is aware from the beginning of the "big problem" looming in EC, but the protagonists aren't until near the end. I don't know what the cutoff size is - I do know that when the Digest is small enough that I can read it directly with the AOL mail reader, I've never seen the Hexadecimal Plague (except occasionally within Aaron's posts, which I suspect is a problem in the Yeshiva U. server). When I have to download it, though, I get the Hexes occasionally; I've never checked to see if there's some magic size where they set in, or if it's a random occurrence. >> I think the first mention of deathlessness in Oz was in TIK-TOK. >It was mentioned in E. CITY, too: "No disease of any sort was ever known >among the Ozites, and so no one ever died unless he met with an accident >that prevented him from living." I was thinking more of the fact that TIK-TOK was the first book where it was stated that even when Ozites were cut into little pieces each piece would still be alive. And in EC it's still clearly possible for animals to die, since the death of Billina's chick was noted. Dave: >Might comic editors, insistant on "dark" fantasy, explain the somber mood >(vindictive Zurline and all) of the Shanower graphic novels? Based on Shanower's straight prose Oz work when he isn't writing for comic editors (GIANT GARDEN, ABBY, etc.), I think the somber mood of his graphic novels is much more indicative of the kind of story he wants to write than of editors' influence. I think you should extend Ralph Griffith an invitation to subscribe to the Digest. He might find it enlightening, if not very flattering... 3/5: Steve: Discussion of THE MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ? Sure; I think the discussion of WIZARD has pretty well petered out by now. I think it's obvious that Baum had a stage play in mind when he was writing LAND - there are not one but two armies of girls, plus the sunflowers with the faces of beautiful girls - all good excuses for showing off legs. The Woggle-bug and Jack Pumpkinhead were set up as a sort of Abbott and Costello pair (before the days of A&C, to be sure, but the latter are just one of the better-known examples of an old vaudeville tradition), probably hoping to duplicate the popularity of Montgomery and Stone's Tin Woodman and Scarecrow. As for Neill's illustrations, it looks to me as if he was trying to stick closer to Denslow's style in this book than he was later, and it didn't suit his talents. Denslow was a cartoonist; Neill was an illustrator. Both styles are valid ways to illustrate a children's book (Dick Martin, George O'Connor, and "Dirk" are cartoonists; Frank Kramer, Eric Shanower, and Melody Grandy are illustrators), but it works better when an artist uses his or her natural style. And since we've been mentioning this kind of thing off and on lately, it might be worthy of mention that LAND is the only Neill-illustrated Oz book I know of where a female character (Glinda) shows unmistakeable cleavage. :-) Tyler: I don't think it's necessarily the case that Krewl/Grewl was condemned to be a gardener's "boy" forever. If he worked hard and kept his nose clean he could probably improve his condition. Similarly for the others you mention. And as has been said by several people on the Digest (including, IIRC, you), Jinnicky's "slaves" don't seem to actually be what we think of as slaves at all; they're paid for their work, and appear to be free to leave if they want to. Earl: >Polychrome is depicted as a lithe, attractive young woman. >Please excuse me while I drool for a moment. ;-) Neill's Polychrome in TIN WOODMAN is a rather toothsome young lady, for that matter. But definitely emphasis on the "young" - she looks about 13-14. Ruth: If memory serves, Lester del Rey had edited a couple of SF magazines before Del Rey books. But you're right that he was better known as a writer. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 16:41:43 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-06-97 The odd thing about _The Adventures of Pinocchio_ is that Collodi clearly forgot that he had smashed the Talking Cricket. I say this because he comes back several times, and at the end, when Pinocchio has become a real boy, the Talking Cricket returns, and Pinocchio says something aboput being happy to see him. The Cricket mentions his surprised to hear that coming from someone who tried to hit him with a hammer. Steve Barron worked that into his film version nicely by having Pinocchio miss, which here clearly did not do in the novel. Collodi describes the corse drying up on the wall. I am not confusing the book with the recent film,this cricket does come back unharmed. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 16:47:46 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-01-97 All right, who thinks that the Dorothy in "Little Bun Rabbit" is the same one who went to Oz several years later. One vote from me. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 15:52:24 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-06-97 > > Okay, now what are HICC books? I realize we all have our hiccups and > downs, but I'd really like to know. > > --Jeremy Steadman Historically INaccurate [not belonging in the] Chronological Chain. > Don't tease me. I have been praying for a movie/cartoon based more closely > on the book for most of my life. There was some attempt at that a while > back, but it appears to have fizzled. > > --Tyler Jones > Aaron, the day ANY movie is made that is "faithful" to the > book is the day all the screen writers will jump off a bridge, hand-in > hand. > Regards, Bear (:<) > > Aaron-- I actually started a script for a film titled "L. Frank Baum's > The Wonderful Wizard of Oz," but I scrapped it for being too rigid and > metteur-en-scene like. > --Scott > There is a script for a very accurate animation adaptation of WWOZ. It was made by Rob Roy MacVeigh, and sold in hopes of financing his making of the film. It is one of the true artistic tragedies that his splendid version of the book could never get made, while many far worse animations flood the market. Do we really need a LAND BEFORE TIME 3, or a ALL DOGS GO TO HEAVEN 2? > Earl--Eric Richard and I are convinced that there is a possiblility of a > 112 minute special edition of _The Wizard of Oz_ early in the next > decade, considering the condition of the Scarecrow's dance, it seems > unlikely that the other segments "no longer exist," and if they wer > incomplete, imagine computer animated bees, jitterbugs, and rainbow > bridge. > --Scott > You should check with John Fricke . He is the world's authority on the 1939 movie. No one knows more than he does about what exists and in what condition. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 17:07:35 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-06-97 Herm: Cool stuff! I learned some things. Thanks! I actually did a cut and paste so that I could save it. Re Disney: So, should _The Little Mermaid_ end happily or the way Andersen wrote it? That's the one Disney movie that I thought went too far. Steve Teller is a gentle person. Steve Teller is a gentle person. Steve Teller is a gentle person. (Did I say it right, Dr. Teller? So now y'won't yell and holler and scream at me or twist my arms any more, right?!) ;) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 18:10:11 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-06-97 Jeremy: I got copyright symbols instead of hyphens in Ruth's post in the 3/4 Digest. Was that what you got? Bear: Because movies usually have to condense the action of a book significantly, it's almost impossible for a movie to be completely faithful to the book it's based on. But I'd say that the movie of THE PRINCESS BRIDE follows the book quite closely in all important aspects. Have you read and seen that pair? Steve: Disney's cartoons of classic children's books deviate significantly from the originals, but in at least three cases - PINOCCHIO, BAMBI, and PETER PAN - I think they're considerable improvements as children's stories. Scott H.: I'm the one who mentioned that I saw a version of _El Mago_ on a Spanish channel. And " that hilarious Mexican minimalist stage version of the MGM film" is a good description of it. Since I don't understand spoken Spanish very well, I can't say whether it included the songs you mention (besides, I didn't watch the whole thing; I flipped into it during a scene in the WWW's castle, and watched about the next 10-15 minutes of it, through the witch's demise but not far beyond that). 1985 sounds about right for when I saw it - or maybe a year or two later. Dave: Who knows why Disney chooses to adapt the books they do? (Maybe the Shadow do...) Or why they redo a mediocre book like 101 DALMATIANS, instead of picking a new one? But given what Disney does to books they turn into films, I'd just as soon they stayed away from my own favorites. When they turn a book I dislike, like MARY POPPINS, into a film, they're much more likely to please me, even if they don't please the people who liked the book in the first place. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 20:22:44 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Jeremy - Growling is what bear's do. Today's Growls used to be my salutation until Dave asked for Oz to be in the title. Thus... The hopefully was because I changed operating systems and was having trouble with my email. All is well now. No deeper meaning. What would we all recommend to Disney as candidate movies? My candidates - since "funny animals" is really their thing why not Brian Jacques Redwall series. Some of the "Miss Bianca" series was pretty good. Another thought, although I didn't think a lot of the Horwood follow-on to "Wind In The Willows," it could provide the basis for a screen play. Maybe the third one, which just came out, will be better. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 7, 1997 (Part 2 of 2) *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 20:23:32 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Jeremy: Actually, the WWW has resurfaced a couple of times, usually in the Wiz Kid's of Oz books, under the name of Sanders, I mean Allidap. I suppose she could be the one responsible for things lately. The HICC is a term coined by Aaron Adelman to include all books that are not on the HACC. That is, books that Chris Dulabone and I (along with others helpint outt) have determined do not jibe with the majority of other Oz books in terms of historical content. Nevertheless, as my web page will remark soon, HICC books are just as good as HACC books, and in many cases, some of the very best writing in Oz can be found in the HICC. Note that some people will disagree with this, as Laumer and Farmer are not Universally loved by Oz fans. Bear: The only example I can think of offhand where a movie was relatively faithful to the book was "Total Recall". It must be admitted, though, that Piers Anthony wrote the book intending it to be made into a movie starring Schwarzenegger, and there were a few subtle changes. The arguement of visual vs. written is valid, but I believe there is plenty of room for improvement in making films and/or cartoons that are quite faithful to the book. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 23:44:07 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-06-97 We are looking for someone who knows the rules regarding photographs. We have some photos taken of ourselves that we want to use on back covers of a future book. However, even though we commissioned the photos, and paid a handsome sum for them, the photographers claim a Copyright or something. How is it that a picture of US, commissioned by US and paid for by US is the property of someone else? By this same rule, would I not own the rights to anything I photographed myself with my own camera? Then why couldn't I go to, say, an Oz convention and snap a photo of someone in a really cool Dorothy costume and use it as the cover of a book about Dorothy, even if I didn't know who the person in the photo was? Or (more likely with me), I might want to re-create a scene from the story with my Oz action figures and a Mego castle. This would seem to me an infringement of the rights of Mego, Mattel, Tyco, and however many other rival toy companies. But if it would be legal because it was my own camera... Isn't there a Copyright attorney on the Digest that could tell me? ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 00:51:35 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy digest More Internet Gremlins, I don't know where the problem is, but whenever I send a long post, some phrases or sentences drop out. I sent myself a copy which was okay, so I assume the trouble is not with AOL, but at the interface with Dave's service. Anyhow, in Book Reair - III, the second paragraph under "spine repair" should start out with: To repair a frayed spine end, place the opposite end of the book on a flat surface and open the book about 170 degrees. This will move the gatherings, Etc. Etc. Also I forgot to point out that the frayed original spine end is glued OVER the "F" piece, not under. This should be obvious since otherwise you might cover up ruled lines, printing, etc . near the top of the old spine. H. Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 23:31:10 -0500 (EST) From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests To: DaveH47@delphi.com Bear wrote: <> The two movies (at least, of those where I've both seen the movie and read the book) that I thought were most faithful were TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD (with Gregory Peck) and BEING THERE (with Peter Sellers)...probably because the original novelists, Harper Lee and Jerzy Kosinsky, wrote the screenplays. Each did, however, have a few changes and/or omissions... (And not all novelists are that faithful even to their own material, when you stop to consider that, despite the changes in the MGM WIZARD movie, it was probably closer to the book than Baum's own musical...) Melody Grandy wrote: <> Actually, that wasn't all that dissimilar to the choices Gould had his characters make. Sparkle Plenty (the daughter of a couple of Dick Tracy's reformed villains, B.O. Plenty and Gravel Gertie) was an entertainer...a professional singer...and it made more sense for her to marry a cartoonist than a cop. Not that opposites don't attract sometimes, but that struck me as more after-the-fact rationalization on Collins' part. Steve Teller wrote: <> I've noticed that the mainstream critics seem to get more and more upset about deviations from the original the higher their regard for that original goes. (I don't hear nearly as much complaining about the changes made in THE WIZARD OF OZ, aside from those by Oz fans, as I do those in, say, Disney's ALICE IN WONDERLAND. Or even SNOW WHITE or CINDERELLA, though those were folk tales that had already been repeatedly told and retold and changed before Perrault and the Grimms wrote them down.) I have yet to hear anyone complain at all about WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT? having a completely different plot (and answer to the title question) than in Gary Wolf's original novel... Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 10:10:22 -0500 (EST) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-06-97 To: DaveH47@delphi.com Jeremy, I think you've got it. The WWW is hexing us from over the www. Which, after all, is cyberspace, where no matter exists. I guess that's where witches must go when they are melted. Where thrie power is much difused and they can only work their worst mischief on files that are too large to send directly, but must be broken into attachments. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 97 10:54:37 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things SLAVES: Maybe the reason there are still slaves in Baumgea is that Jinnikey and other slaveholders offered freedom to their slaves, but they choose to remain in bondage, saying that they didn't want the responsibility that came with freedom... :) OZ COMICS: David H. wrote: >I think you should extend Ralph Griffith an invitation to subscribe to the >Digest. He might find it enlightening, if not very flattering... Jellia: Enlightening, right! Like he'll find out to his utter shock and horror that Oz is really a sweet, beautiful, idyllic place. :) FROM _WIZARD_ TO _LAND_ (WITH QUICK DETOURS TO _WICKED_???): >Discussion of THE MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ? Sure; I think the discussion of >WIZARD has pretty well petered out by now. Any other votes for our moving on the _Land_? If so, then I have a "transitional" question...Does anyone see any evidence (from _Land_ and from the musical) that from the _Wizard_ musical up until DOTWIZ Baum's intent was for the Wizard to be evil (not unlike _Wicked_!)? Jellia: Er, and I have another question, Dave...Has Gregory Maguire only read the first two books? Audah: No, because he talks about "Kumbric" (that's "Krumbic", Mr Maguire!) Magic and other things from later books... Aurah: I guess he just wanted to do a "What If" story... Aujah (sarcastically): Okay, then how's *this* for a "What If" story -- "The Life and Times of the Heffalump", in which the sweet and innocemt Heffalump (who is really a pachydermal freedom-fighter) faces persecution from vindictive and ruthless Poohs, Piglets, Tiggers, Rabbits' Friends-and-Relations, and Spotted and Herbaceous Backsons... :) Jellia: SHHH!!! Someone MIGHT JUST DO IT!! :) IF I ONLY HAD A : :) Re: Gorden's remarks on the MGM film -- I think the MGM movie's point that they're trying to make is that the Scarecrow, Tinman, and Lion all have what they want all the time, but IMHO MGM did a very poor job of driving that point home. Take the Scarecrow: Remember the scene when the WWW says "That's right -- Don't hurt them right away! We'll let them THINK about it a little first! HAHAHAHA!", and the Scarecrow gazes at the chandelier? I had to watch the movie 47 times before I realized that this signifies that the Scarecrow is THINKING about how to cut the rope and bring the chandelier down on the guards! I thought before then that all he was THINKING about just then was his massive fear and anxiety at the sight of all those lit candles! MY 2 CENTS ON MOVIES AND ADAPTATIONS: Rich M. wrote: > The two movies (at least, of those where I've both seen the movie and >read the book) that I thought were most faithful were TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD >(with Gregory Peck) and BEING THERE (with Peter Sellers)...probably because >the original novelists, Harper Lee and Jerzy Kosinsky, wrote the screenplays. And then there's that greatest rarity of all: A movie adaption that changes the original book FOR THE BETTER! I would put two in the class: _Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory_, and _Hopscotch_ (Again, definitely becuase the the original novelists, Roald Dahl and Brian Garfield respectively, wrote the screenplays). David H. wrote: >Disney's cartoons of classic children's books deviate significantly from the >originals, but in at least three cases - PINOCCHIO, BAMBI, and PETER PAN - I >think they're considerable improvements as children's stories. I would definitely add DUMBO to the above -- No crows, no pink elephants, and only a very tiny cameo for Timothy in the original story. Perhaps Disney's *most* faithful book adaptation of all is _Ferdinand the Bull_, in which the narrator reads the original text of the book practically WORD FOR WORD!!! :) At the other end of the spectrum, we could of course argue until all the cows in Cowville come home :) over which is Disney's *worst* adaptations. My personal nominee is _Sword in the Stone_ with _Alice in Wonderland_ as a very close second. In _Sword_, Disney has a lot of fun transforming young Arthur into different animals while doing away with the whole point of it all, introduces the apocryphal Madam Mim and "Duel of Magic", and he makes poor Merlyn into a bumbling clown! And in _Alice_, he of course throws out almost all of Carroll's dialogue, and makes a villian out of the Cheshire Cat! Not "adaptations" that I care for... >Who knows why Disney chooses to adapt the books they do? (Maybe the Shadow >do...) Or why they redo a mediocre book like 101 DALMATIANS, instead of >picking a new one? And now they've remade THAT DARN CAT! (What next, a remake of _The Cat from Outer Space_???) >But given what Disney does to books they turn into films, >I'd just as soon they stayed away from my own favorites. When they turn a >book I dislike, like MARY POPPINS, into a film, they're much more likely to >please me, even if they don't please the people who liked the book in the >first place. FWIW, I like the Mary Poppins books (although I can see why some people may not) and the movie both, even though the book MP is so dissimilar to the Julie Andrews MP. The things I dislike most about the movie is making a villian of George Banks (a really good-natured guy in the books), devoting all that time to the bank scenes (nothing remotely resembling a bank in the books), and that ENDLESS chimney sweep dance sequence! ( Although I recognize that all movie musicals from _Singing in the Rain_ to _The Slipper and the Rose_ are required by Hollywood Law to have one obligatory endless dance sequence... :) ) Steve T. wrote: >Do we really need a LAND BEFORE TIME 3, or >a ALL DOGS GO TO HEAVEN 2? Do we really need an ANYTHING 2 or 3 (or 4 or 5 or 6)??? :) At least Baum and his successors had the imagination to give each Oz book a different title... :) COMING SOON TO A BOOKSTORE NEAR YOU-- "THE WIZARD OF OZ XXXVIII" BY JACK SNOW!!! :) :) :) Jellia: Or maybe it would have been "THE WIZARD OF OZ XXXVIII: THE FINAL CHAPTER" or "THE WIZARD OF OZ XXXVIII: A NEW BEGINNING"! And now, here are the stories I would like to see Disney do ( Do *well*, that is! :) ) -- (Note that I don't expect animated versions for many of these...) THROUGH THE LOOKING-GLASS Of course, given what he did to _Wonderland_ (and the little taste of Disney's conception of _Looking-Glass_ we get in _Donald in Mathmagicland_), a decent Disney version of _Looking-Glass_ should come shortly after we get genuine Campaign Finance Reform...Seriously, I don't understand why _Looking-Glass_, like Gilbert and Sullivan's _H.M.S. Pinafore_, seems to be jinxed--NO ONE seems to be able to do a decent movie/TV version of it! In the 1930's we got Paramount's highly edited version, and it remains to this day the cream of the crop! LITTLE MEN We now have 3 versions of _Little Women_, and 0 of _Little Men_, which is my favorite (And I don't think it's because I'm a male, because I do like _LW_ too!). Perhaps Winona Ryder could even reprise her role as Jo! (I must admit that I really enjoyed Winona Ryder's performance, even though my mother argues that Winona is too beautiful to be Jo.) EIGHT COUSINS/ROSE IN BLOOM Another Alcott classic (really one story in two volumes) that I think it's about time someone did -- A charming story about Rose, her seven male cousins ( including Mac, who proves that even so-called "nerds" can win a girl's heart -- Encouragement for me... :) ), and Rose's maid and dear friend, the beautiful Phebe ( who the Wogglebug claims is Jellia's long-lost-separated-at-birth twin sister :) ). CHARLIE AND THE GREAT GLASS ELEVATOR They insist on doing sequels? How about the sequel to _Charlie and the Chocolate Factory_ (to remain consistant with the movie, though, I guess it would have to be called _Willy Wonka and the Great Glass Wonkavator_)? True that Peter Ostrum and Jack Albertson are no longer in a position to revise their roles, but Gene Wilder could be Mr. Wonka again...I can even envision computer-animated Vermicious Knids and other effects... HANSEL AND GRETEL With Disney doing things like _Pocahontas_, _Hercules_, and _Hunchback of Notre Dame_, you'd think they'd completely run out of fairy tales! But I see numerous ones they could do, including this one. Of course, in order to stretch it out to 90 minutes, I'd recommend they did the play version I did in elementary school, which had numerous plot complications including an enchanted cat and a Zurline-like "Forest Fairy". The witch was also rather comical, so it would probably not be as "dark" as the original story... FANTASTIC MR. FOX With the current Dahl-mania going on now, with movie versions of _James and the Giant Peach_, _Witches_, and _Matilda_, how about adding to this his other big Dahl classic, _Fantastic Mr. Fox_, about the crafty fox who saves all the animals from the tyrannical hunters. I only hope Disney would do a better job than I gather he did with _Giant Peach_ (I keep saying I want to get the video so I can see it for myself, saying "It can't possibly be THAT bad!", and my friends who have seen it already say with gentle frankness, "Yes, Dave, it WAS that bad!") PUSS IN BOOTS Here is another classic fairy tale ( My dad's favorite :) ) involving a cat who is constantly working his paws off to get his master out of one scrape or another. In fact, Disney did do very early in his career a silent cartoon called "Puss in Boots", but it had very little to do with the fairy tale. BARNABY AND MR. O'MALLEY I must be running dry because I'm thinking of real longshots now... :) (I could surely think of others if I took the time, but I won't now. :) ) But I have always liked Crockett Johnson's comic strip about a boy with a Fairy Godfather, and can see it animated. OLD POSSUM'S BOOK OF PRACTICAL CATS Well in fact I have been hearing rumors that someone (don't know if it's Disney) *is* planning to do an animation of _Cats_, complete with Lloyd Webber's score...I'm not sure how it would turn out, but we'll see... :) (Whew! Is this my longest post ever???) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 8, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 15:30:53 -0500 (EST) From: ZMaund@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (2 of 2) Cc: phanff@library.berkeley.edu Anyone planning to attend the Ozmopolitan Convention this summer, is traveling to Lakelawn by car, and is willing to bring with them for Club use during the weekend either a complete computer system (PC, can even be as old as a 286!) , or else just a printer and monitor -- or even just a printer! Please contact me. Thanks! ZMaund@AOL.com Thanks, Dave! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 15:34:19 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Chris Dulabone: On copyright and photos, you probably need to consult an actual lawyer (or maybe go to a library and ask for a book on copyright law). My impression with a photo of a person is that both the person photographed and the photographer have some rights in what is done with the photo, but I don't recall seeing details in the articles on copyright I've run across. You might try going back to the photographer who took the photo you want to use and saying, "I want to buy the right to use this photo on the book. Will you take x number of copies of the book as payment?" (Or perhaps some amount of cash that you could afford could be negotiated.) Dave Hardenbrook: Your suggestion that Baum might have been thinking of the Wizard as he appears in the stageplay in having the Wizard be the one who turns the infant Ozma over to Mombi sounds plausible. "Villain" is maybe too strong a term. He might actually have had in mind the kind of scenario that Hugh Pendexter used in his "Oz and the 3 Witches" story, where the Wizard thinks he is getting the kid into protection against the two Wickeds. I forget to what extent he is antagonistic in the stageplay. // I would disagree with you about Disney's "Sword in the Stone." Madame Mim and the duel are not apocryphal, but are part of White's book. White cut her out, and made some important revisions in events generally, when he took his book "Sword in the Stone" and abridged it to be the "Sword in the Stone" section of "The Once and Future King." The Disney movie is fairly faithful (not completely, of course) to the original book. I didn't actually see the Disney "Fox and Hound" movie, but my impression, from hearing that it has a happy ending, is that it is probably one of the most-distant-adaptations from its original, Dan Mannix's novel. // There was a movie made of "Little Men." Ralph Morgan, brother of Frank the Wizard, played Professor Bhaer. I've never seen it, and suspect that it may not be a particularly good movie. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 15:42:18 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (1 of 2) > > Steve Teller is a gentle person. Steve Teller is a gentle person. Steve > Teller is a gentle person. (Did I say it right, Dr. Teller? So now > y'won't yell and holler and scream at me or twist my arms any more, > right?!) ;) > I hope they got the point, Robin. > Steve: > Disney's cartoons of classic children's books deviate significantly from the > originals, but in at least three cases - PINOCCHIO, BAMBI, and PETER PAN - I > think they're considerable improvements as children's stories. > > David Hulan > I'll agree about the first two, but I prefer Barrie's PETER PAN (especially in the "straight" play version, which was the original). Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 16:51:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Wizard of Oz 1) Another thing which the MGM movie did which was certainly wrong (noted in "The Wizard of Odd" and by a classmate of mine: they fused Glinda and Locasta. This results in Glinda at the flattening of Gingemma telling Dorothy to go to see the Wizard in the Emerald City and then at the end of the film telling Dorothy that all this time she could have used the Ruby Slippers to go home, in effect making all the trouble she went through pointless. At this point in "The Wizard of Odd" Dorothy rightly points out that such cruelty should make her a bad witch. 2) Disney making a movie about Hercules? Does the world really need another misinterpretation of Hercules? Will anyone ever portray Hercules in a way that has a signficant resemblance to Greek mythology? Then again, someone swatting down his own children like flies isn't likely to get into movie, at least one with a good rating. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 15:56:26 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (2 of 2) > > Bear: > The only example I can think of offhand where a movie was relatively > faithful to the book was "Total Recall". It must be admitted, though, that > Piers Anthony wrote the book intending it to be made into a movie starring > Schwarzenegger, and there were a few subtle changes. > > --Tyler Jones > TOTAL RECALL? Wasn't that based of Philip K. Dick's story "We Can Remember It for You, Wholesale"? It really changed the story completely. Especially since Dick's protagonist could never have been played by Arnold Schwartzenegger. Actually it was hard to accept Arnold as the character in the beginning of the film. Perhaps Piers Anthony's book was a novelization of the film. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 19:00:13 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (1 of 2) The Redwall series would be terrific as a Disney. Maybe _Mossflower_? _Willows in Winter_ would also be pretty good. Disney probably could handle the anthropomorphised characters quite well. Hopefully they wouldn't mess up as I feel they did in _The Black Cauldron_. FWIW, I thought the Disney version of _Mary Poppins_ was quite true to the spirit of the book and didn't mangle anything too badly. Unlike David (I think it was David), I loved the book. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 19:28:10 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (2 of 2) Rich M.: _To Kill a Mockingbird_ both condenses and changes plot points. I teach from the novel and often have my kids contrast it to the film. Horton Foote wrote the screenplay for it, not Harper Lee. But I definitely agree that it's a fine adaptation of the book. Dave: You're right about Mr. Banks in _Mary Poppins_. I'd forgotten what they'd done to him. I see why they did it, but it was a bit much. Book I'd like to see as movie: _The 21 Balloons_, although I can't imagine it divorced from its original illustrations and I'm not sure if Disney would retain the sly wit. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 21:50:03 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-06-97 Just watched "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" on video. Great movie, script, music and animation! Near the end, there is a scene where the lady gargoyle says, "Fly, my pretties, fly!" posed like MGM's Wicked Witch. Only it's Notre Dame, not the Witch's castle, against a sunset backdrop,with birds flying by instead of Winged Monkeys! And the villain, Frollo, says, "Leaving so soon?" when Quasimodo tries to make his getaway with Esmeralda. Thereafter, Frollo's pretense of self-righteousness falls off, and he reminds one very much of Margaret Hamilton's Wicked Witch both in word and action. Just out of curiosity--does Disney now control any rights to the MGM's "Wizard," or have they simply been sold a few rights connected to it? Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:04:36 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls David - Loved your height analysis. That will teach Atticus to mess with an engineer. Now if your political analysis was as good........ :) :) Yes, I have read and seen Princess Bride. Predictably, I thought the book was much better. Here is the feeling it engenders: I am one of those silly people who reads something like Batman and takes it seriously! Then along comes Hollywood and "camps it up." The early TV series was the worst in this regard. The newer versions were some improvement. Mostly I sit and watch and gnash my teeth and feel resentful. Sigh. Back to books. OzBucket - You don't really need a lawyer. Don't you know the rule of the universe is that everything you really want to do is either illegal, immoral or fattening. :) As far as the illegal part, this is why we have graduated all of these lawyers, to remind us. Rich - Point taken but to me comparing "ALICE IN WONDERLAND. Or even SNOW WHITE or CINDERELLA" with WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT? is about like comparing WAR AND PEACE with RAMBO. All this discussion of movies reminds me of my youth when I used to beseige John Campbell of Astounding (later Analog) about when they were ever going to make a SF movie that was not a joke. Then out came FORBIDDEN PLANET with that great cast, including Robbie the Robot, a decent plot and the Disney artwork and special effects. If any of our younger members have missed this, it is still great. JOdel - Some matter better exist in Cyberspace or you wouldn't be reading this. :) Dave >Maybe the reason there are still slaves in Baumgea is that Jinnikey and other slaveholders offered freedom to their slaves, but they choose to remain in bondage, saying that they didn't want the responsibility that came with freedom... :) Gee, this sort of reminds me of CENSORED BY DAVE FOR POLITICAL REASONS! Mischieviously, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 17:57:12 -0800 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (2 of 2) > tales that had already been repeatedly told and retold and changed before > Perrault and the Grimms wrote them down.) I have yet to hear anyone complain > at all about WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT? having a completely different plot (and answer to the title question) than in Gary Wolf's original novel... > > This is true! I wanted to comment on it before, and say that yes, Virginna, a BETTER movie can be done off a book-- what a horrible read the WFRR book was, and I even read it *after* a hard to find book search. . . OZ COMICS: > David H. wrote: > >I think you should extend Ralph Griffith an invitation to subscribe to the > >Digest. He might find it enlightening, if not very flattering... > > Jellia: Enlightening, right! Like he'll find out to his utter shock > and horror that Oz is really a sweet, beautiful, idyllic place. :) > Acutally, I had e-mailed him personally after seeing his address in the Digest, (I also seem to like these comics a wee bit better than you or Jellia, Dave!) and I do believe that Ralph Griffith does indeed know about Oz, and has tried to remain true to Baum's original ideas of Oz (with a futuristic take on them, of course.) He did say to me that he tries to focus as much as possible away from horrorific type things and making the comic into adventure-type stories. He wants a comic that will appeal to adults as well as children. (Again, it's not like Baum didn't have any violence in his own stories) > Steve T. wrote: > >Do we really need a LAND BEFORE TIME 3, or > >a ALL DOGS GO TO HEAVEN 2? > Actually, to pick a nit, we are actually on LBT 5 and ADGTH 3, plus an animated cartoon series of ALL DOGS every Saturday. . . So your point is brought home even further, I guess :) > OLD POSSUM'S BOOK OF PRACTICAL CATS > Well in fact I have been hearing rumors that someone (don't know if > it's Disney) *is* planning to do an animation of _Cats_, complete with > Lloyd Webber's score...I'm not sure how it would turn out, but we'll see... :) > Actually, this is in production with Amblimation (the people who gave us BALTO, if you can remember that one.) Last I heard, production was still continuing, but with Amblin being absorbed by Dreamworks, who itself is producing an animated feature (THE PRINCE OF EGYPT starring Moses) who can say what CATS final fate will be. . . >Bear: >Because movies usually have to condense the action of a book significantly, >it;s almost impossible for a movie to be completely faithful to the book it's >based on. But I'd say that the movie of THE PRINCESS BRIDE follows the book >quite closely in all important aspects. Have you read and seen that pair? Ah, the Princess Bride! I love the movie, and the book is among my top 3 favorite books of all time. I remember the magazine Writer's Digest asked its readers if there was one book that you would want any writer to read-- and I would pick the PB in a heartbeat. The best thing about the movie, is that it can be read almost parallel to the book, as a companion piece, of sorts. Truly a unique experience. Oops! Sorry about the lack of Oz in this post! You guys haven't heard from me in a while and here I come and hardly talk about Oz! FWIW, I think it would be great to have an animated LAND OF OZ movie, expecially because there are so many characters that can be really great looking if computer animated-- Pumpkinhead, Sawhorse, Tin Man, Gump, even Scarecrow! that's all for now, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:59:24 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Book Repair - IV (Paper tears) On reading copies, it is certainly OK to use Scotch "Magic" tape and the like to repair page tears, to tape in loose pages, etc. Unlike older tapes and some of the cheaper newer tapes, it will not rapidly turn yellow with age. However it WILL get stiff wth age, and the adhesive will change viscosity. The adhesive can either get hard and crack or craze, or it can get more sticky, to the point that it "flows" and makes a mess. That may take years, of course. And when you try to remove old tape, the paper underneath is often permanently discolored. The following is a much better scheme: If the torn paper edges butt together, and even better if the edges overlap (most do since paper rarely tears exactly at right angles to the surface), place some wax paper between the tear and the paper underneath, put a LITTLE Booksaver glue on the torn EDGE, and align the edges properly. Use a magnifier to examine the tear. If the overlap is reversed, there will be a discontinuity where the tear stops, and the page will end up warped.) Place another wax paper on top, close the book, and let dry under pressure. The excess glue will run out from the tear on both sides, and make the repair even stronger. acid-free archival repair tape. This is ultra thin, and when applied and burnished, it is nearly invisible. Further, it has a special adhesive, that is quite stable to aging, yet can be "released" with isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol), should you ever want to remove the tape. The ultimate job involves using thin Japanese rice paper, also purchased from a book supply house. With the page flat, and the tear aligned, paint a 1/8" stripe of archival repair adhesive along the crack, i.e. 1/16" on each side of the tear. Cut about a 3/8" rectangle of rice paper and center over the glue line. Press down and allow to dry. Turn the page over and to the same thing from the other side. Now there should be an unglued portion of rice paper at the outer margins of the rectangles. Grab this portion, and gently pull in the direction of the covered tear. The paper will part near the glue line leaving behind a thin layer of cellulose fibers that cover the region of the tear. With a little practice, it will be hard to see that there was ever a tear there in the first place. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 00:54:28 -0500 (EST) From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 Two contributions in a row??!! Not bad for me, especially on weekdays! Ruth Berman wrote: <> That tradition seems to be on the way out (reportedly a new PETER PAN movie is in the works that will have an actual boy as Peter), just as the reverse tradition faded out (i.e., adult women played by boys, customary in the 16th and 17th centuries...which is why Shakespeare's heroines are always dressing as boys). But to some extent I've wondered to what extent Baum had it in mind even in later years...a lot of his boys (not just the deliberately-androgynous Chick, who *was* played by a female on stage) seem to have androgynous, if not downright feminine, names (e.g., Inga, Kiki)... David Hulan wrote: <> I remember the edition vividly; it was the one my library had. Alas, their copy is long-gone...and, yes, I recall Polychrome looking some years older than Neill, at least then, generally drew her. (So did Ozma.) << Dorothy was supposed to be "well-grown" for her age; on the other hand, average heights a century ago were probably not what they are now. (Certainly they aren't for adults; it seems unlikely that all of the increase in growth has come in the teen years.) Four feet tall would be unusually tall for a 6-year-old now and was probably even more so in Dorothy's day.>> Which again backs up your (and my) contention that Dorothy was at least 7 in WIZARD; more likely 8 (or even 9). After all, many of the Oz fans' attempts to judge her age are based on attempts to squeeze in all the later books about her before she went to Oz (often the HACC in addition to the four more Baum wrote)...and, as is well known, when Baum wrote WIZARD (and even LAND), he had no idea he'd ever write another book about Dorothy. <> Well, I'd call their mediocrity more an opinion than a fact, since not everyone agrees about it. I rather liked ROYAL BOOK, but after that I can't think of a really first-rate Thompson Oz book before LOST KING (and even that was flawed by Mombi's uncharacteristic execution). <> I haven't seen the movie, but I did read the book...which would seem to be especially appropriate for such a thing. After all, William Goldman (an experienced screenwriter...didn't he once again write or co-write the movie version?) claimed that even the book was a condensed version of a longer original... Scott wrote: <> No, he remembered. The Cricket was specifically a ghost when he first appeared, and then, as miraculously as Pinocchio became a boy, restored to life. (I wonder if he considered him something of a religious allegory, a la C. S. Lewis' Aslan? Which would make the initials and probable derivation of the name Disney give him--Jiminy Cricket--especially appropriate.) <> One vote against. *That* Dorothy could talk to animals, which the Princess of Oz could do only in Oz itself. (Surely she wouldn't have had to wait until the eighth book in the series to talk to Toto!) By the way, does anyone remember the rhyme that story was based on? (Unlike all the others in MOTHER GOOSE IN PROSE, I'd never heard that rhyme before.) Tyler Jones wrote: <> Actually, that was another case where I *had* read the original before seeing the movie...it was credited and I was delighted, since it had been a story I'd liked. However, I'm pretty sure the original was (a) a short story, not a novel, (b) written not by Piers Anthony but by Philip K. Dick, and (c) very unlikely to have been written with Schwarznegger, who was still a teenager in Austria when the story was written, in mind. Aside from that, and the addition of a lot of extra elements to the movie, well... Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> I think Baum wasn't really sure what the Wizard was actually like at the time...in retrospect, I'm inclined to think Mombi tried to put all the blame on him (rather than herself) since he wasn't there to defend himself. <> Agreed on WILLY WONKA; haven't either seen or read HOPSCOTCH. I might add BEING THERE to that category, since Kosinsky actually had room to put more into the story (since it was a very long movie based on a very short book), and Peter Sellers added a great deal of depth to Chauncey Gardiner. <> You know, I've *never* seen the original version, nor have I ever met anyone before who has! I know it was a very obscure book that went out of print very quickly, and would probably be long-forgotten if not for the movie. <> Actually, Mim and the Duel of Magic *were* in T.H. White's book as originally published. But he made a lot of cuts before it was incorporated into THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING, and that was one of them. <> From everything I hear, P. L. Travers was very disappointed in the movie as well...though her biggest complaint was what she saw as an inappropriately-enlarged role for Bert (who appeared in all of one chapter in the original books, and certainly wasn't anything approaching the romantic interest he sometimes seemed to be in the movie). <> Very good list! I'd add these-- THE GENIE OF SUTTON PLACE by George Selden. (Chuck Jones already did a cartoon version of the author's most famous book, THE CRICKET IN TIMES SQUARE, but at least at one point Disney owned the rights to this one. It *should* have been done!) Anything by Diana Wynne Jones, especially CHARMED LIFE, DOGSBODY (supposedly considered for an animated movie at Disney once), or ARCHER'S GOON. THE WIND ON THE MOON by Eric Linklater. (An excellent British children's fantasy that's almost completely unknown in America--but it combines adventure, humor, a bit of satire, and a wide variety of great human and animal characters. Two girls begin by getting the power of transformation, and end up masterminding a rescue operation in a distant land.) VEVI by Erica Lillegg. (An excellent German children's fantasy *completely* unknown in America, since it's never been translated, and very few Americans know any language other than English. About a little girl, her big brother, and a strange double of Vevi grown from a root.) Any of the FREDDY books by Walter R. Brooks. I've heard Brooks' more famous creation, Mister Ed the talking horse, is being considered for a movie, so can Freddy--a talking pig who was a detective, poet and general troubleshooter on the farm where he lived--be far behind? He'd be right at home in the wake of recent animal movies (though I'd be inclined to favor animation over what seems to be the current rage: having him played by a real pig), though reviewers would probably consider him an imitation of Babe, whom he long predated. (Just as a lot of people thought Mister Ed was an imitation of Francis the talking mule, whom *he* predated...) And, last but not least, to get back on topic, RINKITINK IN OZ. Disney owned the rights even before it became PD, and it could stand quite well on its own with only a minimal change in the ending...which, from everything I hear, is the way Baum wanted it to be, anyway! Time to go! Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 08:25:30 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 3/7 Digest Part 1, DavidXOE says (For those who come in late: My quoted comments were of the "lithe, attractive" Dale Ulrey Polychrome, not Neill's.) Neill's Polychrome illustrations in _Tin Woodman_ are inconsistent. Some, particularly the one of Poly dancing alone in chapter 13 show her even younger than "13-14." Others, as in the group before the ruined house in chapter 17 or Poly seated on the Hip-po-gy-raf's head in chapter 19 or Poly standing alone in chapter 21, show a taller, more mature woman, in her late teens or even older. Indeed, I think the older Polychrome illustrations predominate in _Tin Woodman_. Also, David says However, unlike the movie, IIRC at the end of the book the heros's successes seem to be undone with just a few sentences -- a touch I did not like at all! In Part 2, Dave (not David) asks Well, sending a little girl and three apparent incompetents out to kill a fearsome wicked witch does not seem the act of a good man (despite what the movie says). Interestingly, in the same dialog exchange the Wizard says, "In this country everyone must pay for everything he gets." This is at considerable variance with the from-each-according-to-his-ability to-each-according-to-his-need view of Oz developed in the later books. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 15:15:48 +0100 From: Bill Wright Subject: oz digest Chris: You asked: >We are looking for someone who knows the rules regarding photographs. We have some photos taken of ourselves that we want to use on back covers of a future book. However, even though we commissioned the photos, and paid a handsome sum for them, the photographers claim a Copyright or something. How is it that a picture of US, commissioned by US and paid for by US is the property of someone else? Here is my understanding of this subject. The photograph was created by the photographer, and thus is his/her property. S/he only sold you a copy of the photograph, and that is all you paid for (unless you executed an agreement otherwise). However, the photographer cannot use this image of you for commercial purposes, or publish it, without your consent (written release). You can eliminate this problem by having the photographer sign a "works for hire" agreement that states you are hiring him/her to do a job (to wit: make photographs), for which you are paying him/her for the effort and the resultant work products (the negatives - or originals) are your intellectual property (which in essence means you own the copyright). All the prints are merely copies of the original, and of course you can sell them but retain the copyright. And you can sell the right to publish them, once, twice, or unlimited, etc. Hope this helps. Note: I am not a copyright lawyer, and the foregoing is only my understanding of the subject. So get advice from a competent lawyer on this subject if you want advice you can rely on. (mandatory disclaimer............:-) Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 10:48:53 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 Bear: Disney did make a film of THE RESCUERS, but aside from having a character named Miss Bianca who was a mouse, it had virtually no resemblance to the book. I wouldn't expect them to do any better if they made films of other Miss Bianca books. There'd be a great animated film in Diana Wynne Jones's DOGSBODY, I think, but I'm not sure Disney is the right studio to do it. Chris D.: I'm not a copyright attorney, but I've read a little bit about the kind of situation you describe. I know, for instance, that you may not publish a photograph of a person without that person's permission. And unless you signed a release, the photographer who took that picture of you can't publish it. I've never read that a person can't publish a photograph of himself that belongs to him, though; someone else will have to advise you on that. It may be that you signed some kind of agreement with the photographer not to make commercial use of his photographs. Dave: It's not my feeling that Baum intended the Wizard to be evil up to DOTWIZ - certainly not to the extent that he is in WICKED. He was not notably good, either - just an ordinary man with a repertoire of tricks and a firm attachment to his own skin, who did what he considered he had to do to keep himself safe. As the series wore on Baum increased the good side of him. This may have come simply from living in Oz, or may have been due to the fact that with fewer threats he had less need to take actions that were expedient but unethical. It's two or three years yet before Pooh and the Heffalumps go into Public Domain, and with Disney holding the copyrights at the moment you can bet there won't be any Revisionist Pooh stories until they do... (Besides, there weren't actually any Heffalumps anywhere but in Pooh and Piglet's imagination. There aren't any wicked characters in the whole Pooh saga; the only antagonist is nature.) I've never read the original story DUMBO was based on, so I can't compare it to the movie. I'll take your word that it was inferior. As for the worst Disney adaptation, there were many that left very little of the original book - THE RESCUERS I already mentioned, and you mentioned THE SWORD IN THE STONE and ALICE IN WONDERLAND. The one that offended me the most, possibly because I liked the original best, was THE JUNGLE BOOK (the cartoon version). (Speaking of THE SWORD IN THE STONE, though, I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Madam Mim actually was in the original children's-book version of the story, but was excised when it was rewritten and adapted to be the first part of THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING. I've never read the original, so I'm only speaking of something I read. Anyone know for sure?) The endless dance sequence goes back a long way before SINGIN' IN THE RAIN; that movie was the acme of the Hollywood musical, not the beginning of it. Take a look at "The Continental" from THE GAY DIVORCE - which was a good two decades before SITR. There are probably earlier examples, though presumably not too much earlier because the Hollywood musical didn't get under way until the "talkies", around 1930. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 97 13:46:36 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BCF: I hear no overwhelming enthusiasm for moving on to _Land_... May I take it you guys want to stick with _Wizard_ a while? MORE DISNEY: David H. wrote: >I've never read the original story DUMBO was based on, so I can't compare it >to the movie. I'll take your word that it was inferior. Er, I didn't mean to imply the original book is "inferior" -- I just like the movie best... Rich M. wrote: >You know, I've *never* seen the original version, nor have I ever met >anyone before who has! I know it was a very obscure book that went out of >print very quickly, and would probably be long-forgotten if not for the >movie. Also long-out-of-print-and-forgotten except for the movies made from them: _Happy Dan the Whistling Dog_, which evolved into _Lady and the Tramp_; _Christmas at Candleshoe_, the (distant!) precursor to _Candleshoe_, the live-action comedy starring a young-and-tomboyish Jodie Foster; and _There Was a Little Man_, which became the (non-Disney) fantasy _The Luck of the Irish_...Compared with these forgotten and impossible-to-find volumes, the Oz books are very much alive and well! :) :) :) > From everything I hear, P. L. Travers was very disappointed in the movie >as well...though her biggest complaint was what she saw as an >inappropriately-enlarged role for Bert (who appeared in all of one chapter in >the original books, and certainly wasn't anything approaching the romantic >interest he sometimes seemed to be in the movie). She wasn't all that keen on a movie adaptation of _Mary Poppins_ anyway -- Disney first approached her in the 1930's(!) and it took him until the 60's to finally persuade her to allow him to do the movie...And then all her fears and aprehensions were realized. FWIW, Bert *is* in more than one story, but he's not nearly an important a "supporting player" as, say, Miss Lark or Mrs. Corry, who don't even have speaking parts in the film! THE WIZARD: Earl wrote: >Well, sending a little girl and three apparent incompetents out to kill a >fearsome wicked witch does not seem the act of a good man (despite what >the movie says). Hasn't this been discussed before? I remember someone pointing out that the Wizard probably said "Kill the WWW" (Or "Bring me her broomstick") only to send them away so they wouldn't bother him again...He didn't except them to actually ATTEMPT the obvious Herculean Labor he gave them! So his biggest "crime" in this case was his gross underestimation of human ( or leonian or scarecrownian :) ) determination... FINAL NOTE: Today's Digest is well over 32K, so let me know if you get the "hexidecimal curse" folks... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 9 - 10, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 21:06:03 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Web Page: It is possible that the problem with accessing my web page has been noted by somebody on the digest a few days ago. Dick Randolph figured out that there needs to be a forward slash after my name. This is true, since my name is not a file, but a directory. Here is the URL: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tylerjones/ Note that the whole thing is in lowercase and my name is run together. I have made some more changes, especially to the HACC and the BEOO review sections. My beloved grey background has given way to white. IMHO, this will make it easier to read. Also, you will notice that, in the name of consistency, I have expanded the review rating system to include half-star increments all the way through. This gives us 11 grades instead of six, which should be enough for accurate opinions. David Hulan noted that six was simply not enough, and that is true. BTW, anybody is welcome to review a BEOO (or BEOO offered) book and mail it to me. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 20:07:06 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-08-97 Dave: I'm all for discussing _Land_, even though I haven't begun rereading it. An official pronouncement may motivate me to get started. I haven't minded the wait b/c I'm still not finished reading _Wicked_. No hexadecimal curse in my copy of the 03-08-97 Ozzy Digest. I have a feeling it doesn't have anything to do with the number of kilobytes. Have you tried asking your system administrator about it? The Oz Collector: I haven't seen it yet b/c the latest issue was mailed to my parent's house (long story). But my mother briefly described BoW's latest offerings on the phone to me: 1. _The Royal Book of Oz_ 2. _The Master Key_. _The Royal Book_ surprised me because I was expecting to see _Scarecrow_ sooner. Are BoW's plans to finish printing the Baum 14 on the back burner? Apparently _Master Key_ will have new illustrations. BoW also printed _Dot and Tot_ and _Enchanted Island of Yew_ with art by a new illustrator. Why does BoW do this? After all, they know enough not to change the art in Oz books. Is it to create a new collector's item? I personally would rather have the original illustrations, even if the plates are reduced to black and white on regular paper. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 19:44:50 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls RMorris - Someone on this Digest told us that Toto could talk all the time. He just didn't feel like it in the early books. :) Earl - We have had some of this discussion here before. Like you, I had a lower opinion of the Wiz until it was pointed out Dorothy was under the protection of the GWN (her kiss) so she was not in much danger from WWW except for housemaids knee. The Wiz knew this. >Interestingly, in the same dialog exchange the Wizard says, "In this country everyone must pay for everything he gets." This is at considerable variance with the from-each-according-to-his-ability to-each-according-to-his-need view of Oz developed in the later books. Oh No! Call HUAC! Baum converted to Communism. :) David - Yes, I saw THE RESCUERS too. I had the same reaction. We can only hope they would be motivated to capture the charm of the books. And lucky you, THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING is a great book. Add it to your pile by all means. Dave - One vote for on to the next BCF! Also, it was a hex free day! Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 22:11:06 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Backwards caps (no, I have still not let go of this) In a classic movie called "The Last Picture Show", which I saw recently, one kid was wearing a cap and another guy kept turning it backwards on him. The movie took place in the 50s, but it was filmed in 1971. Puss in Boots: There was a musical done with this some years back, starring Christopher Walken (why they cast him as Puss, I'll never know). THey had to add quite a lot of extra plot elements as well as several songs to stretch the thing out, but the Marquis of Carabas lives! David: Ah, ha. They have gotten to you too. The only reason you beleive that there are no Heffalumps is because the evil Poohs, Piglets and Tiggers have wiped them out and have been covering it up. This is why we need Gregory Maquire and Oliver Stone: to uncover "What REALLY happened" :-) No Hexadecial curse for the March 8 digest. Maybe this happens only when the INternet is choked. --Tyler ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 21:40:46 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-08-97 I am pleased to relate that the first draft of my Centennial Contest book is complete. Which means that for better or for worse, it will be sent in before the deadline. I wish I could say more about it, but with judges in the audience I'll leave it at that. Steve: I prefer Barrie's PETER PAN as an adult, but I didn't when I was a kid (of course, I'd only read his version and had seen Disney's). However, the son of the chicken has the gout. (Fractured version of "chacun a son gout" popular among my circle of friends...) Robin: Yes, I was the one who said I didn't like the book version of MARY POPPINS. Of course, I didn't read it until 1979, long after I'd seen and loved the movie. Bear: >David - Loved your height analysis. That will teach Atticus to mess with >an engineer. Now if your political analysis was as good........ :) :) My political analysis -is- as good. You just don't recognize that... :) :) Oh, I agree that the book of THE PRINCESS BRIDE was much better. There's always a lot more to a book than there can be to a movie of normal theatrical length made from it. But I thought that, condensation aside, the movie of PRINCESS BRIDE was faithful to the book. FORBIDDEN PLANET was an excellent SF movie, but I thought THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL was better, and earlier as well. (Even though it wasn't as good as the story, "Farewell to the Master", that it was based on.) (DESTINATION MOON was the first SF movie I remember that wasn't a joke, but TDTESS was the best before 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY. IMHO.) Danny: While I haven't gotten around to buying any OZ comics after MAYHEM IN MUNCHKINLAND, I didn't find them all that objectionable. They seemed heretical in the same sense as "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" - done by someone who accepted the FF fairly well, but postulating a recent change in Oz that distorts what we remember. I wouldn't approve it as something to build future stories on, but can accept it on its own terms as another possible view of Oz. I wouldn't rate THE PRINCESS BRIDE among my top 3 books of all time, but probably my top 25. And the movie is probably among my top 10 (which is considerably easier to manage...). Rich: I concur that when Baum wrote WIZARD he had no idea he'd write another book about Dorothy. OTOH, we have to remember that we have to separate the Oz-as-Literature discussion from the Oz-as-History discussion. From the latter standpoint, there's no difficulty in compressing the period from WIZARD to EMERALD CITY into three or four years if we only consider the FF; the difficulty only arises when the HACC is taken into account. Certainly the mediocrity of the early Thompsons is an opinion - the mediocrity of -any- work of art is an opinion, though the number of people whose opinion is that A LITTLE PRINCESS is mediocre is likely to be much higher than the number whose opinion is that OLIVER TWIST is mediocre. (Though personally I managed to get through the first and not the second.) But I don't think that many of the early Thompsons - before LOST KING, specifically - are likely to have made modern adult readers think, "Wow! I gotta find more books in this series!" >One vote against. *That* Dorothy could talk to animals, which the >Princess of Oz could do only in Oz itself. (Surely she wouldn't have had to >wait until the eighth book in the series to talk to Toto!) Dorothy talked to Toto all along. It's Toto that wouldn't talk to Dorothy until the eighth book. :-) Dave: CHRISTMAS AT CANDLESHOE isn't that hard to find; it's another Michael Innes mystery featuring Sir John Appleby, and as such is fairly easily found in the mystery section of used bookstores. But the book has almost no resemblance to the movie CANDLESHOE. No Hexadecimal Hex this Digest. No explanation why, though; I did have to download it, and sometimes those get Hexed and sometimes not. David Hulan ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 11, 1997 (Part 1 of 2) *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 17:51:24 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-08-97 Well, I just returned from my spring break (which was rather oddly named, because, as you have probably noticed, it is not spring), and I am ready to attempt the task of responding to recent Digests. John: I thought about the name "Dram," and I noticed that it is quite similar to "dream." Perhaps the name was a way in which your subconscious was reminding you that you were dreaming. Also, DRAM is a kind of RAM (maybe Disk RAM or something). Chris: Yes, the Scarecrow was rather mean to Jack when they first met, although they soon became good friends. Scott: I do not recall ever reading anything about Peter Brown's middle name. I obtained the Dover edition of _John Dough_ at a Munchkin Convention silent auction. Eleanor: A library of unwritten books? Wouldn't that library have to be infinite, since there is an infinite number of unwritten books? I do not recall the Soldier's actual height ever being given, but his weight, according to _Wonder City_, is 125 pounds. Herm: If a book has missing pages, it certainly wouldn't make a good reading copy, since the whole story could not be read. Incidentally, the copy of _Cowardly Lion_ that I first read was missing the first page of the third (I think) chapter, in which Notta and Bob first arrive in Mudge. Fortunately, I was able to figure out what happened fairly easily, and I have since obtained a complete reading copy of _Cowardly Lion_ (the Del Rey edition). Barbara: I believe that Ray Bolger's Scarecrow costume is on display in the Smithsonian Museum of American History, along with a pair of ruby slippers and a copy of _Tik-Tok_ (perhaps a first edition). I do not watch "Sliders" very often, but I recall seeing one episode which was an obvious take-off of _The Wizard of Oz_. This episode was mentioned in a recent Baum Bugle. Tyler: It was actually the bandits, not the gypsies, who were transformed into farmers at the end of _Ojo_. Dave: Jellia belongs to a union? I didn't know that they had labor unions in Oz. Funny that you should mention _The Sword in the Stone_, since I read the book for the first time during my break. I have two editions of the book, one of which contains the original 1939 text, and the other of which contains the revised 1958 text. The editors' preface to the latter states, "In the late 1950s White extensively revised _The Sword in the Stone_ in preparation for the publication of _The Once and Future King_. In the process he inserted several chapters-notably those about Antland and the wild geese-that reflected a more somber view of our time than he had taken two decades earlier." When White added these chapters, he also removed the part about Madame Mim, who originally appeared in Chapter Six, after Kay says, "It was a witch." Also removed is the encounter with Galapas, a ten-foot-tall giant. Merlin says that human giants cannot get much bigger than that because of bone structure. He apparently never met the Yoops. Morgan and her castle are quite different in the two versions (although the theme of food is present in both), and there are many other changes, which I will not go into at the moment, as this is not the Sword in the Stone Digest. Your post of the seventh might not have been your longest ever, but it was considerably longer than your posts generally are. Aaron: I enjoyed your ideas about the Scalawagons. I wrote a short story called "Revolt of the Scalawagons," in which the Scalawagons are "unmade" at the end, but I could always revise this ending, since I like your ideas about the fate of the Scalawagons better. Someone mentioned that the creation of sentient beings to be used as slaves (the Scalawagons) was a mean action. I have noticed that the Oz characters often act uncharacteristically mean in the Neill books. *********************SPOILERS FOR THE NEILL BOOKS**************************** In both _Wonder City_ and _Scalawagons_, the animals are not treated as equals to the humans, as they seemed to be in the Baum and Thompson books. They were chained and penned. In _Scalawagons_, the Ozites, especially Ozma herself, are prejudiced against Mifkits. Ozma becomes very angry at a Mifkit for being too zealous in its work, and banishes it. Ozma gives Dorothy and the other girls permission to attack the Bell-Snickle, who, IIRC, committed no offense except scaring people, with scissors. ******************************END SPOILERS************************************ On Oz dreams: I recently dreamed that I was reading _Ojo in Oz_, but that it contained more explanation about Opodock. If I remember the dream correctly, the bird was angry at the King of Crystal City, and wanted to destroy his Kingdom. Actually, I might write a story about Opodock, using some ideas from this dream. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html "I don't want a hat I was wearing in 1890. Have you no sense of time at all?" -Merlyn, in _The Sword in the Stone_ ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 22:46:37 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Reviews of recently read Oz books Yes, I have managed to obtain more Oz books via ILL, and hopefully in a month or two I'll be able to give a list of everything that's ILLable and not ILLable. In the meantime, I proceed to the reviews. (Tyler, you may include the appropriate ones on your Web page.) ***WARNING: PARTIAL SPOILERS AND FALLING DEBRIS AHEAD*** 1) "Sherlock Holmes in Oz" by Ruth Berman (included in _The Game is Afoot: Parodies, Pastiches, and Ponderings of Sherlock Holmes_, Marvin Kaye, ed.). I enjoyed this story. Interesting problem, with a solution I didn't expect. Some development on the antagonist's character, definitely extrapolated from Baum and Thompson. The only thing I could find questionable about this story was bringing in fictional characters--and I mean characters which even the Ozites consider fictional. For this reason, this story will be placed in the same universe as "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" in the next version of the HI/RCC. (The only other choice was with the odious _The Number of the Beast_.) For those who notice the potential problem with this, I have already devised a solution, which will be E-mailed to the curious upon request. Three point five stars. 2) _The Braided Man of Oz_ by R. K. Lionel Cute, and I really liked the friendly robots in the Desert, but this book has some serious difficulties. 1) The gargoyle Gorry can speak vocally and feels no apparent pain when hearing human-loudness sounds. (The presence of the a gargoyle doesn't bother me; I assume that Gorry was simply out of Naught when the Great Fire tore through it.) 2) Gorry knows a spell which is effective against the deadly enchantment of the Desert, which is odd since gargoyles don't live on the surface. Even stranger is that the spell makes reference to Nixon and Johnson. 3) The Braided Man finds the Ruby Slippers. Enough said on that point. Two point two five stars. 3) _A Viking in Oz_ by Chris Dulabone A story centered around character development and embellished with some material that's hard to swallow. 1) We have a Viking named Victor, preserved in a magic air bubble, who is the central character of the tale Rather unusual, but my suspension of disbelief remains intact. Most of the book, he attempts to deal with Nonestica on Norse terms, with some interesting interpretations and misinterpretations. 2) We have a mermaid named Aveline, who voluntarily left Aquareine's court to strike it out on her own and came to regret it. The problem with her is that she falls in love with Victor, which sort of stretches the suspension of disbelief since Nonestican salt-water mermaids seem to be of an asexual species; the only merman ever mentioned (so far as I remember) is the presumably fresh-water Orpah. Aveline's love could be platonic, but more study is required. 3) We have the trans-Thompsonian punning Lone Sharks, which have to be purely nonhistorical to talk as they do. 4) The suspension of disbelief is broken with the Tunacorn, which is a fish-unicorn hybrid. I'm simply not going to accept such a biological impossibility without some extraordinary explination, and none is forthcoming. If it could happen at all in Nonestica, it would require extreme psychological abnormality on the part of the parents and a huge dose of magic just to make the creature function, much less be healthy and have a retractable horn. 5) Our journey proceeds to Roly Rogue Island, where many of the Roly Rogues have names obviously derived from Oz authors and illustrators (Powell, Mongold, Van Buren, Lionel, Blossom, Onyx Madden). 6) Button-Bright travels from the Emerald City to the coast of Noland without any explination of how he did it. Is it so hard to invoke a wish way or a mischevious eagle? 7) A Nolander wears a Spiro T. Agnew T-shirt. Go figure. One point seven five stars for too many holes above and beyond the call of duty. ***END REVIEW WARNING*** While I'm talking about _A Viking in Oz_, I'd like to note some information on pre-Dorothean history which seems to have come from _The Blue Emperor of Oz_ (with permission of the author). _Blue Emperor_ would seem to hold that the first ruler of Oz (starting at the enchantment) was Ozroar-Boz, father of Pastoria, grandfather of Ozma. This is severly problematic considering that _Yellow Knight_ (A FF book) has Oz going back much further. Assuming that there is any truth in this (which is increasingly probable since I've seen people claiming such things elsewhere), I would like to revive an old theory of mine, that there were two enchantments of Oz. Enchantment I would be around 1200, a Lurlinide fairy being left to rule over the Four Lands. (Sounds like something in _Tin Woodman_, doesn't it?) This fairy, marrying a mortal man, formed the start of the House of Oz. (Yes, I know I just attacked interbreeding of vastly different species, but I have a theory which is based on purely proprietary information used in the writing of Lurline's Machine (and hence is not revealable at this time) which provides a workaround for fairy-human hybridization.) This first Ozma eventually leaves and is not definitely seen again. Sometime before the time of Oz Roarus II Boz (Ozroar-Boz), something happened (just what is not determined) which disenchanted Oz. The magic flux levels dropped sharply, animals stopped talking, and spontaneous magic stopped. Near the end of the reign of Oz Pastorius II ( Pastoria), Lurline notices what has happened and reenchants the Four Lands, leaving behind a fairy child (possibly a new incarnation of the first Ozma) who will inherit the throne and hopefully not desert her post. And the rest practically everyone reading this knows. Comments? Problems? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu [Note: the hexes in Aaron's messages today are at his end, not mine this time. :) -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 07:50:42 -0800 From: "Laura or Eric Gjovaag (Could be either)" Subject: Oz: Something Digesters may want to see Everybody, if you hae access to the World Wide Web, you may want to check out this month's issue of American Reader magazine at http://www.areader.com. It's all about "The Wizard of Oz," and there's sure to be a lot there to amuse you. --Eric "I know my funny bone was tickled a few times -- although probably not for the intended reasons..." Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 23:20:32 -0600 (CST) From: glassman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-10-97 In response to Craig's questions about our most recent Oz Collector mailing (which he admits to not having seen or read yet!): 1) "Scarecrow of Oz" (like all the other Baum Oz books we have published) will be co-published by Books of Wonder and William Morrow and Company this spring. It will be featured on the cover of our Spring issue of The Oz Collector catalog. The other Baum Oz books will all be published by Books of Wonder/Morrow over the next three years. "The Royal Book of Oz" is being published by Books of Wonder without Morrow. We could have waited another three or four years to issue this when the Books of Wonder/Morrow Baum Oz books were all issued, but we felt that most Oz fans would prefer to get them sooner, not later. (Why is it that so many people like to presume the worst?) 2) As to why Book of Wonder has issued Baum's other children's fantasies with new illustrations, the reason is quite simple. We are trying to introduce these stories to a new generation. Where Neill's art is as appealing today as it was when first published, the artwork in "Dot and Tot," "Yew," and "Master Key" - although very attractive - would not attract as many modern readers. Remember, none of these books were very successful when first published. In fact, two other publishers tried reprinting "The Master Key" with the original illustrations some years back and flopped with it. I don't believe in repeating other people's mistakes. Also, reproducing the artwork in "Dot and Tot" and "Yew" in black-and-white is not possible - the artwork overlaps the text in a different color. To reproduce it in black-and- white would make the text difficult, if not impossible, to read. - Peter Glassman Books of Wonder ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 07:23:54 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission The 3/8 Digest copy I received was not "hexed." In the 3/8 Digest Dave says Yes, it has been discussed before, here and elsewhere. (The first discussion that I remember was in the 80s on a large Government bulletin board/e-mail system.) However, Dave gave the matter a new spin when he asked if Baum originally intended the Wizard to be evil. As was pointed out by David in the 3/8 issue, the Wizard was being expedient to send the fab four to do an impossible task, a task that no one would reasonably expect them to actually try to do. When they really did set out to the Country of the Winkies, a good man would have made some effort to retrieve them before they came to harm. The Wizard did not try. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for "good" men to do nothing. So, perhaps the Wizard was not actively evil, but he certainly wasn't good, in this first book. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 05:30:28 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-09-97 Some recent digest observations: Re: Pinocchio We had to read this book in college for a children's lit. class. I could instantly tell it was originally serialized in a magazine--and the author was paid "by the word" so to speak. It had to be one of the most depressing stories I've ever read. I remember the part where Pinocchio enters a house and everyone's dead gave me the chills. Disney's movie is mild by comparison. Re: Disney's rights to Baum books It's my understanding that Disney was able to acquire the rights to Baum's books only after Maud Baum died. For some reason, she didn't like Walt Disney--a situation that frustrated Ruth Plumly Thompson because Thompson used to do some piece work for Disney and she thought Disney should do something with Oz. I believe Disney had to pay MGM quite a bit to use the Ruby Slippers in Return to Oz, a major mistake on Disney's part (along with the movie's title) because it invited comparison with the 1939 movie. I think it was a one-time deal only, and Disney has no 1939 _Wizard_ movie rights. (Now, the reason their movie theme park in Florida is called "Disney-MGM Studio" is another story altogether.) Re: Mary Poppins This is all IMHO, of course, but I think other than being a little long, Mary Poppins (the movie) is one of the finest motion pictures ever made. I also think the chimney sweep "Step In Time" dance portion is a highlight of the movie. Books as movies: I always thought _Sky Island_ would make a good movie. Re: Herm's book repairs: Thanks, Herm for the information. I still shudder when I think of what I used to do to books in my attempts to "repair" them when I was younger. I'm intrigued about the idea of spraying clear lacquer on a 1st _Dorothy & the Wizard_ cover. Who had the courage to do that first? Re: Ulrey-illustrated TIN WOODMAN not being a success Once you see the illustrations, you'll know why it wasn't a success... Re: The Oz Collector I got my copy the other day, and I'm VERY surprised they fell in the same trap when they said "[Reilly & Lee] sought out a new author to continue the series and selected a TWENTY-YEAR-OLD woman from Philadelphia... I thought Peter Glassman knew his Oz better than this! Re: Del Rey Thompson's not selling: The main reason these books didn't sell is because the publisher somehow thought they'd sell themselves. According to the Oz Collector, Books of Wonder plans to issue all the Thompson's with the color plates. Of course, it may take 20 years... Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 07:04:42 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Bear says in the 3/10 Digest, protection. Some thought should have been given to them. But even if Dorothy was the only one whose welfare should be considered, the Witch could still do terrible things to her psyche by making her watch the others be hurt. The movie says it well, "Throw that basket [with Toto] in the river and drown him!" and "the last to go will see the first three go before her." ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 23:20:54 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (1 of 2) Robin: >Re Disney: So, should _The Little Mermaid_ end happily or the way Andersen wrote it? That's the one Disney movie that I thought went too far.< I liked seeing Ariel live happily ever after, but thought the big climactic scene was waaaaaaay embarassingly overdone.and unbelievable. Prince Eric dives into the sea to save Ariel after sunset, and can open his eyes and actually see well enough underwater to wing Ursula's shoulder with a harpoon. Ursula's growing to giant size was ridiculous. And Ariel's surviving a 100-foot fall into the giant whirlpool without breaking a fin? :-) :-) Looked like a brainstorming session where the writers crammed in every single idea they could think of. Just for the record, Phyllis Karr thought the movie a travesty of Andersen's original. I have a 'thing' about wanting the background music in a movie to match the period the movie is set in. That was one thing "Return to Oz" did right. The music sounded like it dated back to the turn of the last century. The music in "Little Mermaid" was good, but jarrring because it's anachronistic. Too modern. On the other hand, "Hunchback's" music sounded right for the era it was set in. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 02:50:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Old Divisions of Oz ***WARNING: SPOILERS FOR _THE LOST KING OF OZ_*** 1) I just had an unusual thought of synthesis that might explain the execution of Mombi in _The Lost King of Oz_ which is often characterized on this Digest as cruel and unusual punishment. Let us consider what Mombi did to Ozma. The Wizard gave Ozma as a baby to Mombi for safe-keeping, and Mombi, for whatever reason, transformed her into a boy. If Ozites share as much in common in terms of psychology with 20th-century Americans as I think they do, one would expect them to consider gender a more crucial part of their identity than they really ought to. As such, Ozma's restoration to her natural form probably was a shock of ego-shattering proportions. Please note that Tip had no desire whatsoever to become Ozma and had to be argued into agreeing to the procedure by his friends and Glinda, especially the latter. Though Ozma managed to adapt to her new role relatively quickly, she probably harbored some resentment to being forced into the transformation and needed some way to release these feelings. The obvious choices for her to release these feelings on were 1) Glinda and 2) Mombi. Glinda, of course, was more powerful than Ozma, so defeating and destroying her was unlikely. Mombi, on the other hand, had been made by Glinda to forget her magic, so she was no match for Ozma. On top of this, Mombi had three things working against her: 1) She had transformed Ozma into a boy as a baby, causing this whole problem in the first place, 2) she had reverse-engineered some primitive magic, and 3) Mombi had attempted to get herself back into power under the excuse of restoring Pastoria. Mombi could therefore be labeled an illegal magician and a traitor, and hence deserving of death. This made her a perfect target for Ozma to vent her anger and frustration on, and therefore, given the chance, Ozma ordered Nick Chopper and Sir Hokus to take the Wicked Witch of the North out back and dump a pail of water over her head. ***END WARNING*** 2) For your commentary, I would like to present a series of proposed names my brother and I created for various subcountry sections of Oz. This list is definitely incomplete, the borders are not well-defined and may have very well shifted from time to time, and above all, none of these names are by no means to be considered canonical. Post-Baumian names may be respelled in accordance with their pronounciation in Old Ozzish. All names are my fault unless otherwise stated. Enjoy. Greater Munchkinland: Arkwit (the Ozure Islands and surrounding territory; capital: Sapphire City; ruled last by Cheeriobed) Core Munchkinland (central parts of Greater Munchkinland; capital: Munchkinezia, which is near Ku Klip's house; ruled last by Li and then his son Stan, with Gingemma the Wicked Witch of the East controling all three areas) Sibeinia (southern parts of Greater Munchkinland; capital: Shamsbad; ruled last by Ri son of Alla until his banishment and was kingless until his reinstatement) Greater Quadlingland: Core Quadlingland: (parts of Greater Quadlingland south of the Hammerhead Mountains; capital: Grolando Metik; ruled by Glinda at least since the Usurpation of Pastoria) Gwordingland: (territory to the northeast of Core Quadlingland, extending to the Great Waterfall) The Land of the Barons (territory encompassing the Red Mountains; no evidence of a central ruler during the Time of Ozma) Greater Winkieland: Core Winkieland (territory to the east of the Winkie River; capital: Bastindezia; ruled directly by Bastinda the Wicked Witch of the West since the Usurpation of Pastoria) Olma (territory to the west of the Winkie River, definitely including the Black Forest; ruled by Gloma until Dorothy came to Winkieland, at which point Gloma and her followers fled to the Black Forest) Greater Gillikinland: Jenima [Barry's term]: (territory west of Tat-Tipu's Mountain and north of the Gillikin River) Lilkiland: (territory south of the Gillikin River; most likely home territory of Mombi) Core Gillikinland (territory east of Tat-Tipu's Mountain and west of the Munchkin River; capital: Gilkenni; ruled by Gil until his disappearance at the hands of Mombi) Wats (territory east of the Munchkin River; state color: possibly ruby red; capital: Gaylettezia [Tresgaie in Laumerian Oz]; ruled by Gaylette until sometime before the Dorothean Era) Midland [Barry's term] (probably a term for a number of areas which did not definitely belong to any of the Four Lands): Zheraza (territory now part of western Munchkinland) Greater Morro (Morro, Green Mountain, and adjoining areas; later to become part of Quadlingland; possibly the original "center" of the Four Lands) Emerald County [District of Oz in Laumerian Oz] (original capital: Ozezia, on the site of which now stands the Emerald City) Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 08:45:25 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: oz movie news ---------------<>--------------- March 10th, 1997 - #19 HTTP://WWW.ZENTERTAINMENT.COM AOL Keyword: ZEN According to The HOLLYWOOD REPORTER, video director Paul Hunter and scripter Mark Brown (How To Be A Player) are developing an updated, hip-hop version of THE WIZARD OF OZ. Musicians in talks to join the cast include Queen Latifah as the Wicked Witch of the West, Warren G. as the Tin Man, and Heavy D. as the Cowardly Lion. geee didnt they do this once already wasnt it called the wiz USA TODAY reports the list of films being readied for theatrical re-release now includes 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND, THE WIZARD OF OZ, THE GODFATHER, FUNNY GIRL, THE WAY WE WERE, CASABLANCA, DR. ZHIVAGO, THE LITTLE MERMAID, and the SUPERMAN films. Many of the films will include added footage, and all will have digital soundtracks. looks like we will see the jitterbug scene live on the big screen ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:43:44 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-10-97 Kind of a thin Digest today, and I wrote nearly half of it myself... Craig: I imagine that the ROYAL BOOK from BoW is a reading-copy edition, like their editions of SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND and the late Thompsons, produced now because it went PD this year. This is as opposed to the high-quality facsimiles of the Baum books that they're bringing out, with the color plates and all. As for the re-illustration of some titles, I know that it would have been very difficult (and expensive) to reproduce the art from the originals of DOT AND TOT and ISLAND OF YEW; the former had multicolored art (red, black, and a sort of greyish green) that would probably reproduce very poorly in black and white, and most of the art in the latter was printed in color behind the text, where it would make the book unreadable if it were copied in black. I don't know why they reillustrated MASTER KEY, though; I have the Dover edition with the original art in B/W, and it came through fine. I believe the facsimile editions of both SCARECROW and RINKITINK are planned for this year. I have a schedule somewhere, but I couldn't turn it up quickly. (Or I might have heard it in a phone conversation with Peter G.; I'm not sure.) My recollection is that those two are scheduled for '97, LOST PRINCESS for '98, TIN WOODMAN and MAGIC for '99, and GLINDA for 2000. Bear: I've read THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING; I meant that I hadn't read the original stand-alone version of THE SWORD IN THE STONE. Although I didn't like TOAFK all that much, except for the first part of it. Tyler: I didn't say there were no Heffalumps - I said there were no Heffalumps -in the stories-. Which is incontrovertible, whether it's because there never were any in the Hundred Acre Wood or because there was a cover-up by the evil Poohs, Piglets, and Tiggers. David Hulan ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 11, 1997 (Part 2 of 2) *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 08:02:18 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-10-97 Dave, Just an update in partial response to Craig Noble's most recent posting. William Morrow displayed its new "Books of Wonder" series reprint of _The Scarecrow of Oz_ at the Midwinter Conference of the American Library Association in Washington, D.C., last month. The book is expected out this spring. I suspect that there continues to be a confusion between the Morrow "Books of Wonder" series, for which Peter Glassman serves as advisor, and the Books of Wonder imprint, of which Peter Glassman, through his firm, Books of Wonder, is the proprietor. I imagine that _The Royal Book of Oz_ and _The Master Key_ are being produced by the latter. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 18:50:31 -0800 From: serenadb@sos.net (Serena DuBois) Subject: Ozzy Digest 3/7/97 Dave Hulan: Thanks for explanation on Del Rey reprints. I know about the size problems. No consistancy in that the Baums are standard PB and the others trade. Re AOL cutoff size. I thint it is 24 K or thereabouts. I have subscribed to several ezines, digested lists like this one, and "The Zocalo" (Babylon 5 newsletter) for example comes in 2, 3, 4 now 5 pieces. Those that are under 24,000 bytes are mail in my mail box, those over a downloadable file and frankly a pain in the neck because it's added work to go out of the newsreader and into a text editor or word processor to read it. Which is the main reason I am having this Digest and all other new ones come to sos.net account. Re the Oz color coding question. I just finished rereading "Land" for the week's discussion, and Baum made a BIG point of the color coding. Purple grass, mud etc in the Gilliken Country changing to Green when they got near the Emerald City. And Jinjur's army's costumes as well. THEY would have made a great chorus line in a theatrical version particularly if balanced by Glinda's army. And evidently cash or trade wasn't non-existent either since that ferryman refused to take them across the river without payment, and they had to float over on the Sawhorse, not to mention all the "stuff" surrounding the Scarecrow being stuffed with the money from the Jackdaw's nest. Though of course it was agreed in the end that the "Riches of Content" were the most important. Dave H. When you said: >In _Sword_, Disney has a lot of fun transforming young Arthur into different animals while doing away with the whole point of it all, introduces the apocryphal Madam Mim and "Duel of Magic", ..< I have to take exception to your use of the phrase "introduces the Apocryphal...". It is obvious you have only read "The Once and Future King" and not the three individual books "The Sword in the Stone," "The Witch in the Wood" and "The Ill Made Knight," that White originally wrote. My book- collecting mother had these in the 40's (I have them now someplace in my boxes!) and read the "Sword in the Stone" to me as a child. I remember howling with laughter at the magic duel when Merlin finally killed Madame Mim by turning himself into the combined germs of a half dozen diseases not yet discovered. I was horribly disappointed when I read "The Once and Future King" and discovered a number of changes that were probably necessary for continuity in a single volume. Madame Min was out. The visit to the Geese representing freedom and no country boundarys and the Ants with their obvious end-results-of-communism theme were in like something out of "1984". A lot of the other humorous subplots or episodes were out as well. I can't comment on comparing the book version of "Sword in the Stone" with Disney because I haven't seen Disney clear through. But I DO know he didn't make Madame Mim up! As for Merlin being a bumbling clown, he was a bit of one in The Sword in the Stone, going around losing things and being vague about time because of living backwards. It was mixed in with his obvious abilities with magic and transformation etc. I looked on it as his "cover". No one was supposed to know that the reason he was really there was to train the Once and Future King of England. He was definitely a different Merlin say than the one who is featured in the "Crystal Cave" books. My main problem with Disney's "Alice" is the pulling in of stuff from "Through the Looking Glass". I believe the Garden of Flowers episode came from there. I DO like his songs however! Sorry! I DO agree with your Mary Poppins comments to the max. I like that movie but some of the dance scenes go on forever. (The only endless dance sequences I like personally in musicals are the Dream Ballet in "Oklahoma" and Louise's ballet in "Carousel". Both of them do what a GOOD dance sequence ought to, explain and extend the story. I take that back. I also like "Slaughter on 10th Ave." ballet in "On Your Toes" for the same reason.) And again they pulled elements I believe from several different books which is understandable considering that they are all sort of picaresque in nature, adventures strung together. Mary Poppins in the Park is about the only coherent one because they were all "park adventures!" You have my vote for GOOD versions of "Little Men" (It WAS by the way done once in the 30s or 40s. I don't know how GOOD it was or how close to Alcott). Also "Eight Cousins/Rose in Bloom" as well. They would make a good BBC type miniseries. They could really DO the tragic subplot of Charlie's death! My personal feeling is that NO long novel works well as a movie. Something always gets cut. Sometimes subplots and sometimes the back half of the book: Take "Captain from Castile" for example. The movie ended in midstream as they head into Mexico with the back half never touched. I know it wouldn't be considered a kid's book today, but I saw it first as a kid and went under the seat at the movie theatre during the Inquisition scenes. Read the book in my teens and later saw the movie again and said, "What happened here? He never gets back to Spain!" They all need to be well done miniseries. But US TV doesn't always do those as well as they could either. This one is long enough! Sorry I really went too far off topic... Serena ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:54:15 -0500 (EST) From: ZMaund@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-08-97 An absolutely meaningless item I found while scanning through some information about African history. There was an Ashanti king named "Kojo" who reigned in 1764 to 1777. KingKojo? Every reputable scholar of Thompsonia is convinced that this is the model used by Ruth Plumly Thompon and "Marge" for their little book. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:01:01 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (1 of 2) Gordon--I think Baum did not have Glinda come to the Emerald City becuase he was writing in a naturalistic style, and that would be fairly contrived, close to literal usage of deus ex machina. I think Bqum successfully creates tension within this second quest of the book. It is both more realistic and imparts the same frustration on the reader that Dorothy was feeling at the time. As a result, I prefer the book. The Turkish film is interesting in that it includes to visits to the China Country, once on the way to the Emerald City, and once on the way to the Sorceress (I believe her name starts with an N here, but I cannot remember.) It does some filmic parallells by having the Scarecrow step in the same spot of water on a bridge twice, though clearly not in a repetition of footage. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:07:26 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (1 of 2) Steve T.--I imagine that perhaps not even Fricke knows about this. ted Turner may well be keeping it a secret to hype it up. Of course, it would probably run longer than the original twellve minutes, audiences expecting all the little people and so forth to be credited in a new edition. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:10:17 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (1 of 2) Richard-- Did you read Dixon Scott's novella _A Fresh wind in the Willows_? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:13:39 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (2 of 2) Tyler--Paul Verhoeven's film _Total Recall_ bore little resemblance to the story it was based on, "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale," by Philip K. Dick. Here Douglas Quail (Quaid in the film) has a desk job and never actually goes to Mars. Instead, he is programmed with an asinine memory to shut him up. The Anthony novel was a novelization of the film. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:19:44 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (2 of 2) Rich--Baum did write the script for the 1903 musical, much much of it was heavily retooled, to Baum's dismay. He held much the same regard for it as those Oz fans who still like HICC books and various films, although he was angered a bit by the production, he still liked seeing his characters brought to life. Baum was too creative to be faithful in adapting the film version of WWoO, and much of it ended up in the _The Scarecrow of Oz_. It was also the second of two features he actually directed (the first was _The Last Egyptian_), although the MacDonald films are often credited to him, he only wrote and produced those two. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:20:30 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (2 of 2) Cinderella actually had fur slippers, but Perrault made a mistrqanslation, or something like that. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:29:31 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (2 of 2) Dave--_The Evil Dead_ needed a II, _The Evil Dead_ is good, but Evil Dead II is fantastic (and surprisingly Ozzy, if you like Tin Woodman), as is its sequel, _Army of Darkness_, which originally ended on a wonderful cliffhanger until Universal made writer/director Sam Raimi change it. Also, there is a film version of _Little Men_ which is available from Video Yesteryear. Sterling Holloway is among the cast. There are probably minor film versions as well. Go to the Internet Movie Database (us.imdb.com) for more information. I have added a good deal of information on film Baumiana. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:33:42 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (2 of 2) Oh yes, I forgot to tell you, H. Shidara made a great anime in 1968 called (in English, I cannot find the original release title) _The Wonderful World of Puss 'n Boots_, which was followed by _Puss 'n Boots Travels Around the World_ in 1982. Ted Turner screwed with that one, though. These are quite good, but the ending has been altered. The Ogre here dies from the destruction of his magic amulet, since Pero refuses to kill mice. Another good version has Garry Q. Lewis as Puss in a New Orleans setting. This was done by The Children's Theatre Company and School of Minneapolis, who did the magnificent job with _L. Frank Baum's the Marvelous Land of Oz_ the year before, in 1991. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:45:52 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Aaron Adelman: The MGM movie does supply an answer to the question of why Glinda didn't tell Dorothy to tap her heels and go home at the start: she says it wouldn't have worked until Dorothy learned more from experience about what home meant to her. I suspect that made the right choice in fusing the characters of Glinda and the Good Witch of the North. As David Hulan has commented at various times, the fact that a novel is usually longer than a play means that an adaptation has to cut things out, and if the movie had kept both Good Witches, there probably wouldn't have been room to present either character adequately. I forget who asked if Ruth Plumly Thompson's Bunbury in "Billy in Bunbury" was the same as Baum's in "Emerald City." Not the same, but probably influenced by it. The pamphlet was an advertisement for a baking powder, and "Bunbury" was a sort of kingdom all of its own, on the shore of a maple syrup sea. The inhabitants include Sally Lunn, Flap Jack, Charlotte Russe, and so on. The boy king, Hun Bun, takes Billy, an anorexic youngster, to visit in order to stir up his appetite. He is so successful that Billy gets hungry enough to make him worry that the visitor may start eating the inhabitants; instead, Billy, like Dorothy, stays his hunger with some furniture. Craig Noble: I'd guess that Books of Wonder is leaving out the original illos when they don't think they can do justice to them at an affordable price. In both "Dot and Tot" and "Yew" the illos (besides being in color) extend out under the text, and although they did a fine job of separations for their "Wizard," it must be a costly procedure. The "Master Key" illos were on color plates, and although doing them in b&w on ordinary paper could no doubt be done, the results might look awfully muddy. // I shouldn't think they'll reprint "Scarecrow" at all, because the Oz Club did it (complete with color plates) a few years back. It does seem odd that they've skipped to "Royal Book," though. I haven't seen the new "Oz Collector" yet, either; maybe it includes an explanation. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:49:21 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-08-97 Ricard-- I think Jinnicky is allowed to have slaves in part because he is not from Oz and Ozma does not wish to make an enemy of him, since he is already a friend. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:51:54 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-08-97 Danny, I also like Griffith's Oz and sent him an e-mail to say so. He noted that putting Glinda in the North was an editorial error never intended to see print. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:56:04 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-08-97 There was a stage John Dough? I didn't think that was ever produced! Tell me more! --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:01:01 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-08-97 I think the Dorothys are the same because that Dorothy was so young she probably would imagine the rabbit was actually talking to her. I was not familiar with a number of the rhymes including that one, and I don't believe Jim Henson Productions ever made that one, and the videos are often of stories Baum did not write, and he is regrettably credited for none of them. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:17:25 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-10-97 Craig-- I imagine BoW doesn't want to do Scarecrow because the club already made a nice version they didn't want to compete with. Note that their hc Snow books are out of print. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:19:00 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-10-97 Bear: I read the Manifesto and it is some scary stuff... ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:45:22 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-10-97 Melody--I don't remember if I told you I actually do kill off Tip in my novel. I forgot to mention it because it is only a Zardoz-inspired dream sequence. If you know the end of that film you'll have a very vague idea of what goes on here. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:38:22 -0700 (MST) From: estelle@usa.net (Estelle E. Klein) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-10-97 Tyler- in response to the jeopardy answer " The book written in 1900 whose 8th chapter is entitled the deadly poppy fields," only the current champion correctly answered- one woman said "The Good Earth" and the other man said "The Jungle". Actually, anyone I asked did not know until I emphasized "poppies". ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:15:45 -0500 (EST) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz posts A little word-search work on the Oz Club reference section would have provided the year of the Ulrey illustrated Tin Man, the info Mr. Miller was after about Maud Baum's family and odds and ends of other stuff that I see asked of digesters. I did tons of updates to it recently, but need to do a pile more then send it off to a proofreader who agreed to look for typos for me (I begged). It should be updated on the Web in another couple of months if not sooner. At 140+ pages, the proofreader shouldn't have to hurry. He is a volunteer, after all. I'll post the un-proofed but updated version if it gets to really dragging. Hallmark's 1997 Keepsake Ornaments include Miss Gulch on her bicycle and a miniature ornament set of the four main characters from the If I Were the King of the Forest number. They won't be in stores till July, but a dealer could show you the catalog. Probably not viewable at Hallmark.com. I think we are in a hang up with being permitted to products that feature licensed characters. Got any ornament suggestions I could pass along? I'd like to see a book styled after the Hill 1st edition that opens to a 3D scene with Denslow-style characters as the year 2000 ornament. And they've begun a series of ornaments of Madame Alexander dolls. The Dorothy in blue (there's an Emerald City version in green) would be an interesting tribute to the 60th anniversary in 1999 though I'd personally love to see an ornament of the Ideal (?) Judy-as-Dorothy 1939 composition doll. Last time they asked me for suggestions I filled a page. But ideas from you would be great to pass along. Melody, I don't believe Disney ever had rights to MGM's Oz. I know they had to obtain rights to use the Ruby Slippers in "Return to Oz." And they had rights to the books, but never to MGM's property that I know of. When MGM bought the rights to The Wizard of Oz, they purchased rights to use anything from earlier stage/film adaptations. So speculation that the farmhands came from the 1925 Chadwick film are no more far-fetched than the snowfall coming from 1902 stageplay. The original Rainbow Bridge effect was reportedly from one of the early stage plays, too ("The Tik Tok Man," I believe). Thank heaven no one felt compelled to cast Imogene the cow in place of Toto... "Run Imogene, Run!!" Somewhere along the line, the MGM film has been declared a national treasure or historic landmark or some such honor title. Under the resulting protection guidelines, no one is supposed to be able to change it. It will be interesting to see how that will be approached if Turner wants to edit things in for a longer version. Thanks, Ruth, for the Gresham/Lewis info. Lynn Beltz: If there was an Oogaboo party and no one writes Carole Mackey about it for the Oz Observer it will be a pity. Smaller gatherings are a great and very clubby idea that might be multiplied across the country if more people thought about it and realized that the hosting of them is not an overwhelming task. The Oz/Pink Floyd connections seem to be without end and invariably include some hanging corpse. Anybody know if there's a Pink Floyd Fan Club page with a FAQ? We can write 'em and say "Quit asking this stupid question. No one is hanging in the background of any scene in MGM's 1939 film of The Wizard of Oz." Or words to that effect. Re: "Take me home to Aunt Em" discussions. My father recently put his proverbial foot down and reminded my sister and I that he did not live in, nor do we visit our "mother's house." It is his too. I think the maternal connection in recent generations results from kids seeing Mom as home maker "making" the home. But in Dorothy's day, Henry wasn't heading for the office every morning, so our young heroine is without that excuse. Oh course, if you get into those weird Freudian "explainations" of Oz -- Dorothy's adventure beig a dream, of course, and subject to all manner of bizarre interpretation -- she probably had some massive disfunction with her uncle that is motivates her to identify only with her aunt. Don't any of you have a handy child around that could review some of these neat Emerald City Press and Buckethead books for the Oz Gazette? I prefer finding a kid on this one rather than letting an adult pinch hit because some might argue that it's just advertising if it isn't really an unbiased kids eye view. ====================================================================== From: IN%"sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu" 11-MAR-1997 12:26:24.34 CC: Subj: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:25:40 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:22:28 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 17150374 AUTHOR: Gottschalk, Louis F. TITLE: The patchwork girl of Oz [collection] / IN: Tams-Witmark/Wisconsin Collection. YEAR: ? 1900 1909 PUB TYPE: Archive/Manuscript Control FORMAT: 1 item. NOTES: One manuscript piano score. The work is in five parts. The 21st number is a printed piece by Gottschalk titled "Secrets--a reverie," published by Theo. Bendix (New York, c1908, pl. no. 85- 3). SUBJECT: Musical revues, comedies, etc. -- Piano scores. ALT TITLE: Patchwork girl of Oz OTHER: Baum, L. Frank (Lyman Frank), 1856-1919. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:26:28 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:21:39 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 35063795 TITLE: The University of Michigan League presents Oz University PLACE: [Ann Arbor, Mich.] : PUBLISHER: University of Michigan League, YEAR: 1936 PUB TYPE: Audiovisual FORMAT: 1 reel (ca. 350 ft.) : si., col. ; 16 mm. 1 videocassette (U-matic) (ca. 10 min.) : si., col. ; 3/4 in. NOTES: Produced for the 1936 Freshman Pageant. Includes scenes of registration, a lecture by Professor Wogglebug, and a blue book exam. SUBJECT: Baum, L. Frank -- (Lyman Frank), -- 1856-1919 -- Parodies, imitations, etc. University of Michigan -- Women. University of Michigan -- Students. Freshman Pageant (University of Michigan) ALT TITLE: Oz University [motion picture] OTHER: Michigan League. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:26:07 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:20:27 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 29614358 TITLE: Workteams and the Wizard of Oz PLACE: Carlsbad, CA. : PUBLISHER: CRM Films, YEAR: 1993 PUB TYPE: Audiovisual FORMAT: 1 videocassette (18 min.) : sd., col. ; 1/2 in + 1 leader's guide + 1 participant workbook. NOTES: Kenneth Blanchard. Using footage from the film The Wizard of Oz as a metaphor, management expert Ken Blanchard teaches six keys to successful teamwork. VHS format. SUBJECT: Personnel management. Work groups. OTHER: Blanchard, Kenneth H. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:27:35 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:24:42 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 35264435 AUTHOR: Smith, Harry Everett, 1923-1991. TITLE: Harry Smith's early abstractions PLACE: [Montauk, NY] : PUBLISHER: Mystic Fire Video, YEAR: 1987 1941 PUB TYPE: Audiovisual FORMAT: 1 videocassette (22 min.) : sd., col. with b&w sequences ; 1/2 in. SERIES: The collected films of Harry Smith ; v. 1 Smith, Harry Everett, 1923-1991. Collected films ; v. 1. NOTES: Includes films nos. 1-5, 7 and 10, produced between 1941 and 1957. A compilation of seven short abstract animated films selected from a group of such films made between 1941 and 1957 by film maker Harry Smith. The sound track for the video edition is entitled "Shaman" and was created in 1986 by Teiji Ito. The films were the first hand-painted abstract films made in America and no. 10 includes some witty animated sequences. The fantastic images can be watched for pure color enjoyment, for motion, or for hidden symbolic meanings, alchemic signs. VHS, hi-fi, stereo. MUSIC NO: MYS-76045; Mystic Fire VideoM107; Mystic Fire Video ISBN: 1561760455 SUBJECT: Experimental films. Animated films. Short films. ALT TITLE: Early abstractions OTHER: Ito, Teiji, 1922- Shaman. Mystic Fire Video, Inc. Anthology Film Archives. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:27:56 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: FirstSearch text delivery (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:23:17 From: First Search Mail Subject: FirstSearch text delivery ------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE DO NOT REPLY OR SEND MESSAGES TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. ------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 20801595 AUTHOR: Smith, Harry. TITLE: Heaven and Earth magic film no. 12 / PLACE: New York, N.Y. : PUBLISHER: Mystic Fire Video, YEAR: 1989 PUB TYPE: Audiovisual FORMAT: 1 videocassette (VHS) (66 min.) : sd., b&w, col. ; 1/2 in. SERIES: The collected films of Harry Smith ; v. 2. Smith, Harry. Films ; v. 2 NOTES: Films made between 1957 and 1962. SUBJECT: Experimental films. Motion pictures, American. ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using FirstSearch. This e-mail account is only for distribution of FirstSearch documents. Please contact your librarian with comments or concerns. ------------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:44:22 -0600 (CST) From: Tim Allison Subject: Mary Poppins I abhor what Disney did to Mary Poppins. The books are wonderful and unique and veddy veddy British-and the thought of Mary Poppins dancing and singing about a spoonful of sugar.... When Mary Poppins told you to take your medicine, you did it, and no back talk. Half the fun of the stories was the contrast between the prim and proper and stern governess, and the unbelievable antics she could get up to without losing her dignity. It's the same heresy as making Dorothy's initial trip to Oz, in the movie, turn out to be a dream. Baum was trying to get away from that cliche and always treated Oz as a real place. Carol Mitchell ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 09:46:30 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BCF: How long would everyone like me to give them to read _Land_ before I "officially" make it the our Book of Current Focus? VERY SMALL UNIONS AND CLUBS: Nathan wrote: >Jellia belongs to a union? I didn't know that they had labor unions in Oz. Jellia: Actually, I'm the only member... :) Spike [Snoopy's brother]: Maybe your union and my Cactus Club could merge, then the membership of each would double! :) :) :) LITTLE MERMAID: Melody wrote: >I liked seeing Ariel live happily ever after, but thought the big climactic >scene was waaaaaaay embarassingly overdone.and unbelievable... >Ursula's growing to giant size was ridiculous... And it was all repeated by Jafar when he becomes an All-Powerful Genie in _Aladdin_... Ruggedo (hamming it up, in a very deep voice like a tape played at 1/2 speed): THE POWER! I HAVE THE POWER! THE ABSOLUTE POWER!!! THE COSMOS IS MINE TO COMMAND, TO CONTROL!!! I HAVE THE-- Ozma: What in Baumgea *are* you doing? Ruggedo (pouting, and climbing down from the ladder): I was playing "Disney Villian's Moment of Glory"...And *you* had to come along and spoil it! SWORD IN THE STONE: Serena wrote: >I have to take exception to your use of the phrase "introduces the >Apocryphal...". It is obvious you have only read "The Once and Future King" >and not the three individual books... Enough people have pointed this out that I now stand corrected, and I've started a search of my local libraries for the original _Sword in the Stone_... >As for Merlin being a bumbling clown, he was a bit of one in The Sword in >the Stone... I just feel, IMHO, that Disney exaggerated it too much... >My main problem with Disney's "Alice" is the pulling in of stuff from >"Through the Looking Glass"... That in itself didn't bother me, but he should have done it right! Mr. Disney, a mome rath is *not* a creature like a walking stalk of broccoli -- it is a green pig that outgribes a lot. BTW, I don't if anyone else here is aware of it but they recently discovered a new genus of dinosaur in the bird-like, big-brained, opposible-thumbed family Troodontidae, and they named it _Borogovia_ in honor of the mimsy borogoves! >I DO like his songs however! Sorry! Disney's songs are the best things in some of his movies -- I like the songs too (Though not as much as John "Born Free" Barry's score for the British 1970-something version of _Alice_...) >I DO agree with your Mary Poppins comments to the max. I like that movie but >some of the dance scenes go on forever... And the irony is that part of the books regarding the chimney sweeps is about two lines... >You have my vote for GOOD versions of "Little Men" (It WAS by the way done >once in the 30s or 40s. I don't know how GOOD it was or how close to >Alcott). Also "Eight Cousins/Rose in Bloom" as well. They would make a good >BBC type miniseries. They could really DO the tragic subplot of Charlie's >death! You're probably right...They would make good miniseries, and *would* have to be BBC! (Even if our Networks touched it with a ten-foot pole, they would probably cock it up completely...) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 12, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:31:15 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Craig: Last week I finally got around to buying the BoW WWoZ, now in its seventh printing, and the list of BoW Oz books *does* include _The Scarecrow of Oz_, so its appearance must be imminent. Seems to me it was about this time last year that _Tik-Tok_ came out. Tyler: Since you brought up _The Last Picture Show_: that too is an example of a book that was very successfully and very faithfully made into a movie. McMurtry's epic _Lonesome Dove_ is yet another example. A colleague of mine in Canada has put together a multiple-choice quiz for his students using German translations of famous movie quotations. WoZ is well represented ("Das gilt auch deinem Huendchen!" "Achtet nicht auf den Mann hinter dem Vorhang!" etc. etc.). There is one famous quotation that he can't place with a movie: "Hoer nun zu, Pilger, und hoer auch aufmerksam zu" ("Now listen, Pilgrim, and listen good.") Of course it's John Wayne, but which movie? The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, maybe? Can any of you movie buffs on the Digest help us out? --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:21:58 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Ozzie digest in re: _Return To Oz_ I have noticed several disparaging references recently to _Return To Oz_. Actually, I am rather fond of the movie, barring those initial scenes having to do with the sanitarium. I find no excuse for them. Uncle Henry and Aunt Em were not an overtly loving couple, but I suspect that repression of emotions was rather more common in that era, particularly in a harsh farming area. I certainly never suspected that they would do anything like subjecting Dorothy to that kind of treatment just because she had "Fantasies". Most children have them in some form. Having said that, personally I find the movie to be much more in the spirit of Baum's books than MGM's WOZ. I have it on tape and watch it from time to time. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:12:38 +0000 From: "L. Beltz/M. Krueger" Subject: Ozzy Digest In reference to yesterday's digest: Yes, the Oogaboos did get together on March 2 and thanks for the reminder to let Carol know about it. It was actually our annual New Y'Oz party which was rescheduled since the Seattle area was snowed under at the first of the year. I don't know what their problem was, here in North Central Washington we still have 6" or more on the ground and it's snowing as I type this. If any of you want to have your own Ozzy gathering - it's very easy to host an informal Oz get together. Pick a place (usually some wonderfully generous person's home), pick a date (sometimes the hardest part for us), send out some invitations and be sure to ask everyone to bring something for the potluck and show and tell. We always have a quiz. Almost nineteen years (yes, 19) ago we started with the Wizard and we're on our second trip through the FF (did I get that right?). Be sure that the invitation tells which book is the one for the quiz. In the past we have skipped books that were hard to find; but, with all of the reprints that's becoming less of a problem. The host usually makes sure there is some kind of punch and some munchies to help get things rolling. We usually start at 2 pm, eat our meal around 5 or 6 and it goes until whenever, usually breaking up around 8 or 9 pm. If any digesters who live in the Northwest and are not on our mailing list; but, would like to be just send me a message and we'll see that you get invited to the next rendezvous. Lynn Beltz ferrywa@televar.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:23:04 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-11-97 (2 of 2) Aaron: I am pretty sure that Orpah is a salt-water merman. Lake Orizon is described as a salt lake. The Tunacorn does not sound all that much stranger than the Bug-Bear in _Ozoplaning_. I assume your objection was to having the creature be a cross-breed between a fish and a unicorn. The Bug-Bear might just be a creature that resembles both a bear and an insect, not the child of two completely different classes. Your idea on the execution of Mombi was plausible, but I'm not sure Ozma would be as vengeful as you say. Is Ri of Sibeinia the same as Ree Alla Bad, also known as Realbad? According to Gloma, her domain was not the western part of Winkieland, but the southern section. Scott: How did that rumor about Thompson being born in 1900 originate anyway? I see it in many places, and know that it's not true. David: The BoW _Royal Book_ does contain the color plates. Patrick: Kojo is also the name of one of Nandywog's Tripedalian servants. Ruth: It's true that the movie probably wouldn't have been able to develop both Glinda and the GWN sufficiently. Why was it that their witch is nothing like either of them, though? Estelle: Actually, I think the writing of _Wizard_ was completed before 1900, so the Jeopardy! answer was not entirely accurate. Serena: I am not familiar with the Crystal Cave books, or whatever books you referred to that contained Merlin, but I am aware that this famous magician was a quite unpleasant character in some works. In _The Sword in the Stone_, he has his bad moods, but he's a very likeable character. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 21:49:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Dram in Oz John, just a thought: If you ever decide to write _Dram in Oz_, you could always avoid giving her a less unusual name by making 'Dram' either 1) an acronym for something more usual (a la Jonathan Andrew "Jam" Manley) or 2) a nonsense nickname Dram gave herself (a la someone I know who shall remain anonymous who at one point as a kid demanded that he be called 'Foof'). Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 21:33:15 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Peter Glassman - Glad to know you are tuned in. I appreciated your explanation although I have already ordered your two new books. Thanks for keeping them coming. Earl - Could you send your disagreement again. It came back missing some lines. Only time for half the Digest tonight..... Bear ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:33:21 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz My sources must have been in error. Apparantly, it's history is very different than what I thought. Aaron: Interesting theories regarding pre-Dorothean history. Much of what you say is possible, although more research needs to be done. An old MOPPeT of mine said that there were two EMPIRES of Oz (a mirror-image to your two enchantment theory). Lurline enchanted the land, Ozroar and his descendants increased the size of their kingdom, then the dynasty faltered and the Oz empire receded. Later, the next Ozroar revitalized his empire and began to expand it again, in the teeth of the Wicked Witches. I'll look thru _Blue Emperor_ and see if I can wring anything else out of it. As for your reivew of _A Viking in Oz_, I really don't want to have to increase the granularity of the rating system any further than it already is. I now have 11 categroies and, IMHO, that is plenty. Could you possibly be persuaded to change your vote of 1.75 stars and make it a 1.5 or a 2? That last thing I want is a floating-point system of ratings where books can be rated at "pi" stars, "e" stars and "tangent of 47 degrees" stars :-). --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:11:21 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-11-97 (1 of 2) Book "find": Anyone want a spiffy black and white copy of _Speedy in Oz_ (no dust jacket) for only $110.00? Herm and I found one yesterday in Austin, TX. Oh my! Winkie convention: Who's planning to attend? Please let me know. I'm cohosting the thing and could use some folks in a sort of a talent show. Even if you don't want to be in the show, please let me know if you plan to attend. Thanks. Melody: Tell Phyllis I agree with her about _The Little Mermaid_. It *is* a travesty, although it's fun on its own. I've never been interested in seeing it again, and usually I like watching Disney animations many times over. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 03:14:44 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Dave - Could we have a little order in the court? Would it be possible for you to announce 1) When we start reading the new BCF and 2) When we start discussing it. I would guess many of us have not started it and already we have someone discussing it. Is it just a fussy engineer who feels this way or do others share this need for order? Ah! How long? I vote for two weeks. >Richard-- Did you read Dixon Scott's novella _A Fresh wind in the Willows_? Scott - Please call me Bear - and no - what is the date? and where would one find it? And, to what "Manifesto" are you referring? P.S. I still don't get why you can't lump all your comments in one email? Each post adds an unnecessary six lines. Or why Ruth can't reduce her line length. It would sure improve readability. Sigh. Crabbily, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 01:23:59 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Anyone else in favor of starting the official _Land of Oz_ discussion in two weeks? Thank you, Lynn, for your remarks on Ozzy get-togethers! I would like to have my own Oz gatherings and not have to wait for the always excellent but always only annual South Winkie Convention...(Excuse me while I go pull my hair because it looks like I once again won't be able to afford to attend the big Winkie Convention this year... :( :( :( ) Speaking of Bug-Bears, I am still slowly working on my "evolutionary tree" for Ozzy beings...As a current point of focus, I have just decided that Agnus is a Pseudosuchian dragon (related to advanced dinosaur-ancestors), whereas the dragons in _Forgotten Forest_ are Eosuchian dragons (related to archaic reptillian ancestors of modern lizards, crocodiles, et al.) :) BTW, in the new dinosaur textbook, _The Evolution and Extinction of the Dinosaurs_ by David Fastovsky and David Weishampel, the section on geological time periods bears the heading: "Eras and Periods and Epochs, Oh My!" :) :) :) Bob Spark wrote: >I have noticed several disparaging references recently to _Return >To Oz_. Actually, I am rather fond of the movie, barring those initial >scenes having to do with the sanitarium. I find no excuse for them. I agree...Auntie Em would *NEVER* treat Dorothy that way! Ozma would sooner join the DAR! :) :) :) Jellia: And the DAR would *never* be the same! :) :) :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 13, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 06:30:15 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-12-97 Regarding a start date for the discussion of _Land_, 2 weeks from now, the 26th of March, is great with me. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:49:54 -0500 (EST) From: "John N. White" Subject: Oz Nathan DeHoff writes: > John: > I thought about the name "Dram," and I noticed that it is quite similar to > "dream." Perhaps the name was a way in which your subconscious was reminding > you that you were dreaming. Also, DRAM is a kind of RAM (maybe Disk RAM or > something). DRAM is Dynamic Random Access Memory. Around the time of the dream I was planning on buying some DRAM and was keeping an eye on their price, so this may have been the source of the name. (A dram is also a unit of weight, but I don't think I knew that at the time). > Merlin says that human giants cannot get much bigger than that because of > bone structure. He apparently never met the Yoops. The Yoops probably aren't human. If they were, then Mr. Yoop would be a cannibal since he ate humans. It's true that you can't just scale up humans. Weight increases as the cube of the linear dimension, while strength of bone and muscle only increases as the square. To get a giant the size of the Yoops you need to use materials considerably stronger than what humans are made of. I checked my old (1976) Guinness Book of World Records and the tallest man was just under 9 feet. He was still growing at age 22 when he died from cellulitis of the feet. (At age 5 he was 5 feet 4 inches tall -- already a well grown child for his age.) All the very tall men mentioned seemed to have health problems related to their height. > Aaron: > I enjoyed your ideas about the Scalawagons. I wrote a short story called > "Revolt of the Scalawagons," in which the Scalawagons are "unmade" at the end, > but I could always revise this ending, since I like your ideas about the fate > of the Scalawagons better. It was only a matter of time before the Scalawagons decided they had more sense than their masters and tried to take over. That's the sort of thing you can expect if you try to knock sense into something with a hammer. :-) I agree that exile is more Ozzy than genocide. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:15:53 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Comments on the name "Dram": As Aldous Huxley said, "A Dram is better than a Damn." Aaron Adelman: Thanks for the kind words on my "Sherlock Holmes in Oz." Jane Albright: Suggestions for Hallmark Oz ornaments -- they haven't done the Wizard of Oz himself, have they, or Aunt Em and Uncle Henry? It would be have fun to have those. (Doing the Wizard seems so obvious, I wonder if they did, and I happened to miss it. If the Wizard has already been done, it would be fun to have the Soldier with the Green Whiskers, and maybe the Cabby.) An ornament based on Denslow's drawings as you suggest would be fun, but I wonder if the general public is familiar enough with Denslow (or Neill, either) to make ornaments based on those likely to sell well enough for Hallmark to want to do. The Smithsonian's catalogue for some years has included a set of ornaments based on Denslow, but my impression from the catalogue illos is that they didn't come out very well. They don't look much like Denslow, and seem ugly to me. Scott Hutchins: Thanks for the information on rare Oz films. Gordon Birrell: For the benefit of those who know no German (or know only a smidge, like me, and try at first to read "Achtet nicht auf den Mann hinter dem Vorhang" as "Eight nights for the foreigner"), I'll comment that your two Oz-quotations in German were "And your little dog, too!" and "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." Bear: I tried shortening the line length, but it made the enclosure unreadable at Dave's end. I'll try putting in hard returns this time, and see if I can find a way to do that without making the formatting too much of a chore for myself. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:02:49 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-15-97 ThnkDave L. Hardenbrook wrote: > > ====================================================================== Thanks to all who sent me the missing words to "Lost Princess". BTW, we finished that book, and on the suggestion of Robin Olderman, moved onto "Scarecrow". He's getting kinda antsy waiting for them to actually get to Oz, but he's enjoying it. We're up to chapter 8, I believe. BTW, my bright 4.5-year-old suggested the same thing the Wizard did, before the Wizard did, viz. "Why not ask the Pink Bear how to defeat Ugu?" Bear, on L. Ron Hubbard: > I'm sure he was one of Werner's inspiration for EST. > "est" should be (idiosyncatically) in a lowercase letters... Chris asked about my son's entry into the RCOO contest on how to get to Oz, so, with this enthusiastic clamor to see it (and since it's past the deadline for entry, so I don't have to worry about possible plagiarism ;-) ), I present it forthwith. It should be noted that the original had little rebus pictures in it (provided by the software), and also illustrations downloaded from the Web. (Thanks, Piglet Bill and others). The prologue is an IE, but whatcha gonna do? (speelling corrections are mine, but the words are his): CHAPTER 1 Once upon a time, A little boy named Baruch went walking and he took and turned off the light and stole the magic stone. Everyone at 4112 Lowell Drive went and took back the magic stone. The End. CHAPTER 2 -- STUCK IN THE SWAMP I am now eating my crackers when suddenly a giant wind blew me to Oz. And then I said, "Where am I?" And then the Tin Woodman came and said, "You're in Oz!" And I said, "What?!" And the Tin Woodman said, " In Oz! A giant wind blew you to Oz!" And I said, "How did it do that?" And the tinman said, "Well, actually it was a bunch of gooses and a bunch of ducks and the wind was very strong and that's how it flew you to Oz." CHAPTER 3 --STUCK IN OZ "Well, why did it carry me here?" "Maybe it was coming this way." "But why was it going this way?" "Who knows? Things are always coming this way to Oz!" CHAPTER 4 -- THE END (I personally love the tinman's last line! -MT) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:42:31 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-12-97 Was there a 3/11 Digest? I didn't receive one, but the 3/12 Digest doesn't include the post I sent commenting on the 3/10 one. Could you please send me another copy of 3/11? Gordon: I think that Wayne quote is much older than THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE. If I had to guess I'd say it's from STAGECOACH, but in any case I'm pretty sure it's pre-1950. Bob: I agree with you that once Dorothy gets to Oz, RTO is truer to Baum's spirit than the MGM movie. Nathan: The BoW ROYAL BOOK does have the color plates? Then I'll have to pick up a copy as soon as I can find one. (Or order it, of course - but if it's at Borders I might as well save the S&H.) I imagine that Serena was referring to the Mary Stewart Arthurian trilogy, one of which was THE CRYSTAL CAVE. For one book where Merlin is a double-dyed villain, there's A CONNECTICUT YANKEE IN KING ARTHUR'S COURT. Of course, it is to Arthuriana as WICKED is to Oziana... Robin: I might attend Winkie - I know I'd like to, but it will depend on how the family finances are doing by that time. Assuming we have no major unanticipated drains between now and then, though, I think the chances are good. On the other hand, I have nothing much in the way of performance talent, unless someone would like to hear my recitations of "The Shooting of Dan McGrew" or "Casey at the Bat". :-) Bear: Ruth has tried to reduce her line length; it's evidently something incompatible between the server she's using at U of M and Delphi. Dave: Two weeks or whatever. I'm ready to discuss LAND any time. Since Ozma isn't descended from someone who fought on the American side in the Revolutionary War, she isn't eligible for the DAR in any case. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:28:37 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-12-97 Re: RPT's Birthday From what I understand, until sometime in the 60's, it was generally accepted that RPT was born in 1900. (Even _Who's Who in Oz_ says so.) This was until someone (Dick Martin, Dan Mannix, Ray Powell?) discovered examples of RPT's writing in magazines and newspapers circa 1913 or so. Of course, the dates didn't jive, and it was soon found out that RPT had magically moved her birthdate up 10 years. I don't think she liked to talk about it. I'm writing most of this from memory from information that's in the Autumn '76 Bugle. (Why can I remember stuff like this but I can't remember where I put my car keys?) Again, I'm surprised BOW repeated the error, since the "cat's been out of the bag", so to speak, for over 30 years... Hopefully, the error isn't repeated in some kind of afterword or forward to their new edition of _Royal Book_. Well, Peter? Of course, we all know that RPT was not Baum's secretary. Let's not get into that one! Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 12:08:47 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-97 (Yes, 2-11, wanta make something out of it?) Mr. DeHoff said > > I understand that Thompson's characters cannot be used for profit without some > of the money going to the copyright holder. Why is it, however, that the > charaters cannot be used in books published by non-profit organizations? I know this has subsequently been covered, but I just wanted to say that it doesn't really matter if "money" per se changes hands, but permission must be sought. The whole idea of a "copyright" is that only the author has the right to say who can copy it. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, who may have, Scott-like more stuff to say about later digests appearing in this same one..... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:49:30 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-24-97 Ruth Scribed: > > Craig Noble: Right, Neill's Glinda regularly wears a hairnet. Not the kind > of hairnet to hold a > hairstyle in place while the hair dries, but the ornamental kind called a > "snood." Not worn > nowadays, but they used to be fairly popular. > I beg your pardon? My wife wears a snood nearly every day, as do hundreds of women out here in this community. She's even made a couple herself... --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 14:12:54 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 (2 of 2) Dave L. Hardenbrook wrote: Rich Morrissey says: > I have yet to hear anyone complain > at all about WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT? having a completely different plot (and > answer to the title question) than in Gary Wolf's original novel... ************************************************************** *****SPOILER WARNING FOR "WHO CENSORED ROGER RABBIT?"********** ************************************************************** Well, the title question was different anyway, "Who _Censored_ Roget Rabbit?" And as for me, I liked them both but I guess Disney decided it would be difficult to make a sequle to a movie whose title character is dead before the book begins.... ******END SPOILER: GO BACK TO READING THIS NOW.....******* Dave H.: > SLAVES: > Maybe the reason there are still slaves in Baumgea is that Jinnikey and > other slaveholders offered freedom to their slaves, but they choose to > remain in bondage, saying that they didn't want the responsibility that > came with freedom... :) cf. Deut. 15:12-18 > > And then there's that greatest rarity of all: A movie adaption that changes > the original book FOR THE BETTER! I would put two in the class: _Willy Wonka > and the Chocolate Factory_, and _Hopscotch_ (Again, definitely becuase the > the original novelists, Roald Dahl and Brian Garfield respectively, wrote > the screenplays). I disagree with the former (I didn't see the latter). I very much enjoyed _Charlie and the Chocolate Factory_, and while I enjoyed the movie in its own right (and can quote darn near every second of it, thatnks to my son's constant plyaing of the videotape), I have a few quibbles. Why did they change Veruca Cruz's name? Why did her manner of comeuppance change (too hard to train squirrels?)? Why did they add the whole pseudo-Asa Slugworth character? Why did they change Charlie's father's occupation? And WHY in heaven's name did they make the Oompa-loompas impossible orange and green? The only change for the better that I saw was the tightening up of the OOmpa-loompas' songs from long-winded odes to catchy little tunes. Although they effectively undid THAT by the insufferable "Cheer Up, Charlie" number.... As far as Mary Poppins goes, I was surprised to learn here that P.L Travers was a woman! Oh, well. I did read the books much later in life (like, a year ago or so), and enjoyed both them and the movie. I liked the chimney sweep number, though... > THROUGH THE LOOKING-GLASS > Of course, given what he did to _Wonderland_ (and the little taste of Disney's > conception of _Looking-Glass_ we get in _Donald in Mathmagicland_), a decent > Disney version of _Looking-Glass_ should come shortly after we get genuine > Campaign Finance Reform As someone else pointed out, there are admixtures of LOOKING GLASS in Disney's WONDERLAND.... > CHARLIE AND THE GREAT GLASS ELEVATOR Now, THIS I would like to see....and "Yes" to computer animated vermicious knids. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 14:24:04 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-08-97 And speaking more of books unrelated to Oz (boy, did this digest take a weird turn!), in reference to the Dale Ulrey- illustreated version of TIN WOODMAN, just the other day, I came across a newly-illustrated (Scholastic) version of "The Puppy (or was it "dog"?) who wanted a Boy". The original book was done in 1958m but the re-issued it with new illustrations. I can't imagine why. have puppies and boys changed that much? BTW, I don't think the ballet number in Oklahoma contributed a THING to the story. But from your three examples of the interminable dance numbers that you like, I'd say you were just showing your bais towards ballet.... --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, finished with the digests for now! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:47:54 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Dave, I am in favor of advancing to discussion of _Land_. Back by popular demand (at least Bear asked), here is my 3/10 transmission, which hopefully will get through untruncated this time: Bear says in the 3/10 Digest, Toto, the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Cowardly Lion had no such protection. Some thought should have been given to them. But even if Dorothy was the only one whose welfare should be considered, the Witch could still do terrible things to her psyche by making her watch the others be hurt. The movie says it well, "Throw that basket [with Toto] in the river and drown him!" and "the last to go will see the first three go before her." ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 19:18:29 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: oz stuff Dave: Your Ozian evolutionary tree sounds interesting. Of course, Agnes was not that closely related to the dinosaurs, since she was not naturally a dragon at all. Everyone: I have moved my web page to http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ The Dragonfire page will still be there for a while, but I advise anyone who has a link or something to my page to change it to my new address. I also received a new e-mail account (vovat@geocities.com), and brought back my signature, but my old e-mail address still works, and I'd still like the Ozzy Digest sent there. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:14:04 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Text format: I write my posts to the digest using the MS-DOS text editor. I always make sure to do three things: 1. End each line with a hard return. 2. Never go off the edge (even the cursor). This ensures that each line is no more than 77 characters, which should be well within safety parameters for Dave's mail system. 3. I only do one post per day unless something really unusual occurs, although I have many paragraphs, since I don't like putting multiple topics in one big hunk of text. I used to put a space at the end of each line, since the digest used to eat the last character of each line, but that appears no longer necessary. I'd like to cast my voice in favor of another week or so before discussing _LAND_. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 23:22:12 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Bugbears of Oz 1) Tyler, had the Tunacorn been a purebred creature, I would have had no problem with it, though I'm curious as to how it can retract its horn. I have always assumed that Thompson's bugbears were nonhistorical (popped into existence on the whim of the Magic Machine). Also: Ri is the Adelmanian respelling of Ree. Barry and I some time back had a disagreement over whether to respell names from Old Ozzish and Dan Rur (the native language of the Fairies) according to my transliterations, and for the moment I've agreed to leave all Baumian names untouched, though we still don't agree whether to spell Ruggedo's species 'nome' or 'gnome'. Post-Baumian names, however, I have been warping as I please. Hence in my list, Seebania -> Sibeinia and Wutz -> Wats. Also: I know that Gloma is supposed to have ruled southern Winkieland, but when they drew the map, they put the Black Forest nearly due west of Bastinda's castle. (Go figure.) As I consider it highly unlikely that Gloma and followers retreated somewhere she did not rule, my guess is that Core Winkieland and Olma are considered 'north' and 'south' for historical reasons (perhaps they were founded directly opposite each other on the north and south banks of the Winkie River) or because their territorial claims reached far to the north and south respectively. Also: You can push my rating of _Viking_ up to 2. 2) Dave, I thought that dragons were amortals and not related to dinosaurs (or any other form of Earth-life). Then again, conceiveably dinosaurs managed to migrate to Nonestica, evolve into sentient beings, found a civilization, and develop amortalizing technology. But if any dragons are dinosaurs, their amortalizing technology must have radically modified them; dinosaurs being able to live in lava or breathe fire goes far beyond their natural physiological capabilities. More likely that dragons are derived from lizards; their physiology is decidedly ectothermic (eat a rhinoceros and then sleep a hundred years) and they are covered in scales. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 08:51:21 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-11-97 (2 of 2) I don't know how often Peter Glassman reads the Ozzy Digest (I know he doesn't post messages regularly), so I thought I'd share my e-mail message to him: Dear Peter, I hope you weren't offended by my questions regarding the latest issue of "The Oz Collector." I'm sorry if I took the wrong tone. I'm sure most of your customers would agree that your business is a dream come true. My question about "The Scarecrow of Oz" was not intended to "presume the worst." I was simply surprised to see "The Royal Book of Oz" advertised first. As for the Baum books that were illustrated by others than Neill, I was simply stating my personal preference for owning affordable copies with the original artwork. Your rationale for the new illustrations is perfectly reasonable now that it's been explained to me. By the way, if I'm to understand this correctly, your plans to reprint all the Thompson books means you will eventually have accounted for all the Famous Forty except for "The Hidden Valley of Oz." (Yes, I know IWOC has already reprinted it.) Is it safe to assume you will eventually print that one too? Thanks for responding to my questions, and keep up the good work! -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:20:04 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-11-97 Whisht! After an unusually short Digest 3-10, 3-11 is the longest I can remember! Two parts, and both long enough I had to download them. Nathan: DRAM is Dynamic RAM, as opposed to the more expensive and faster Static RAM (SRAM). (DRAM is what most computers come with.) Scott O.: I'm on your side regarding the movie of MARY POPPINS. Of course, I didn't like the books. Aaron: I still don't think it's really in character for Ozma to be so vindictive against Mombi, at least the character the authors tell us she has. After the first six books she isn't on stage enough except in GLINDA and maybe HUNGRY TIGER for them to really show us much about her. Certainly she has more excuse to execute Mombi than most rulers would need, but she isn't supposed to be like most rulers. (Though it's consistent with her threat to execute Eureka for eating her piglet.) Scott H.: >Cinderella actually had fur slippers, but Perrault made a >mistrqanslation, or something like that. I don't think it was Perrault that made the mistranslation, but whoever translated Perrault into English. Or maybe Perrault was writing down a story he'd heard orally (which would be a mistranscription, not a mistranslation) - anyhow, the confusion was between the French sound-alike words "vair" (fur) and "verre" (glass). Ruth: I don't think the book WIZARD really characterizes either of the good witches very much; the movie could probably have handled that about as well without becoming any longer. But getting Dorothy to Glinda would have taken too long, and bringing a new character in at the very end would have made no sense. Jane: I don't think you can bring in weird Freudian things about Dorothy's relationship with Uncle Henry if you accept the books from OZMA on; in those books Dorothy and Henry seem closer than Dorothy and Em. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 13:08:02 -0600 (CST) From: glassman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-11-97 (1 of 2) In response to David's comment: >Craig: >I imagine that the ROYAL BOOK from BoW is a reading-copy edition, like their >editions of SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND and the late Thompsons, produced now >because it went PD this year. This is as opposed to the high-quality >facsimiles of the Baum books that they're bringing out, with the color plates >and all. On the contrary, THE ROYAL BOOK OF OZ will be produced with the same quality as the Baum Oz books we've been doing. And I'm not sure if our editions of SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND are being insulted or not when you refer to them as "reading-copy editions." Given that both of these titles have enjoyed numerous printings, are produced on high quality paper, and are available in sewn cloth editions, I feel (and the buying public apparently agrees) that they are of high quality than just "reading-copy" books. Why is it that people feel compelled to make observations about our forthcoming publications without first reading our printed offers? THE ROYAL BOOK is clearly described as having all 12 color plates and being in the tradition of our BOW/Morrow Baum Oz books. I welcome legitimate criticism [well, maybe not welcome, but at least accept! ;-)]- it's unresearched speculation that bothers me! - Peter Glassman Books of Wonder ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 13:17:35 -0600 (CST) From: glassman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-11-97 (2 of 2) Scott wrote: >Craig-- I imagine BoW doesn't want to do Scarecrow because the club >already made a nice version they didn't want to compete with. Note that >their hc Snow books are out of print. On the contrary, as Peter Hanff wrote, our edition of SCARECROW is already off the presses and due for release next month - at which time it will be announced in the Spring issue of The Oz Collector. And, with no disrespect to IWOC (now that the Royal Club of Oz has nearly 1,000 members - almost half of IWOC's size - shouldn't we begin to refer to each club, not just "the" club?), we would not even consider IWOC's publications in deciding what to publish and what not to publish with Morrow. After all, we've published over a third of a million Oz books with Morrow. Given IWOC's inability to distribute to the vast majority of Oz lovers (IWOC only represents the tiniest tip of a very large iceberg!), it would be extremely unfair of us to omit a title in our publication schedule simply because IWOC had produced a small edition (which, incidentally, has sold very poorly). As to our Jack Snow hardcover titles, the decision was based on retailers telling us they were not interested in handling hardcover editions, not because we were troubled by IWOC's editions. Indeed, our paperback editions continue to sell well. And we plan to reissue the Snow hardcovers at some future date. - Peter Glassman Books of Wonder ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 14, 1997 *** @ @| V | \\\ \_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ < ] ===================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:21:43 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-08-97 In re: slavery. Remember that all slavery, everywhere, at all times, is not necessarily as thoroughly nasty as the U.S. variety was. In many cultures, only slaves can perform certain tasks, and de jure slavery can sometimes be little more than a legal fiction. To take one example, it was not unusual in Roman times for educated Greeks to sell themselves as slaves, in order to get positions as private tutors in well-to-do Roman households. The proceeds of the sale would then go into a trust fund (technically, slaves were not allowed to own property-but, for that matter, neither was an adult male citizen, as long as his father was alive, so a very well-developed trust-fund system had evolved), which would be augmented from time to time by tips. When the children grew up, the slave would then buy his freedom, having in the meantime gotten free room and board for a decade or two, and usually a pretty decent nest egg to boot. In the case of some of Jinnicky's "slaves", too, there exists the possibility that these are magical beings who are slaves per substans, not per accidens. That is, for such beings, it is essential to their nature that they be slaves; if not, they cease to exist! // John W Kennedy-Hypatia Software-"The OS/2 Hobbit" ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 16:32:40 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Ozzie Digest Mike "Shaggy Man", "My wife wears a snood nearly every day, as do hundreds of women out here in this community. She's even made a couple herself..." Just out of idle curiosity, what community would that be? Bob Spark ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:38:51 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-13-97 Few film versions of Alice in Wonderland ignore Through the Looking Glass. I actually don't know of any; perhaps the 1950 film? --Scott ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 20:07:42 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Aaron: I'll go ahead and process your reviews (with the slightly upgraded rating of Viking). I will be out of town this weekend, but perhaps I can post them on Sunday night. --Tyler Jones ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 20:39:05 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-13-97 To: DaveH47@delphi.com Mike: I'm curious... what community do you live in where many women where snoods? I ask simply because I've only seen people (both women and men) wear the non-ornamental food-service type of hairnets. Zauberlinda: A local used bookstore has two copies of this book. As I'd heard, it's clearly a Wizard of Oz ripoff, though there aren't color plates. Is there much interest in this book? I might pick it up as a curiosity if $45 isn't more than the going price. Book of the moment: Just an observation-if Wizard is any indication, we may be spending a month per book after all. Reading copies: I consider almost any book other than a first edition to be a "reading copy" (unless it's rare or unusual). That means I consider all the Books of Wonder reprints to be reading copies-even if they have color plates. Having said that, I also consider them to be especially nice reading copies and well worth acquiring. I expect that someday I will have three complete sets of the Famous Forty-a set of first editions (I'm only about a quarter of the way there), a set BoW &/or IWOC fascimile or near-fascimile reprints, and my current set of R &L reprints. -- Craig Noble ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 20:44:00 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest To: Dave Hardenbrook Organization: The Intergalactic Cult of VoVat John: True, the giants of Oz are probably not human, although they resemble humans. Some Ozian humans, such as Terp, however, became giants by magical means. I suppose we can assume that such magic (like Terp's muffins) changed body substance, as well as size. David: If you order the BoW Royal Book before its publication, there is a discount. True, Dorothy was closer to Henry in later books. Of course, both Ozma and Dorothy and the Wizard take place around when Dorothy and Henry were on vacation together, without Em around. Aaron: Dragons might predate dinosaurs, at least in Nonestica. IIRC, the Original Dragon is identified as the oldest (or maybe first) living creature. This statement might not be entirely accurate, but we can assume that dragons are a quite ancient race. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." ? Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 21:28:36 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 03-13-97 To: DaveH47@delphi.com Is there any (published) bibliographic information on THE SHOW WINDOW? My older copy of the BB Index does not have a listing for anything on this book. Was this ever included in the serialized Bibliographia Baumiana? How rare are the various editions (It seems that there are at least 5?)? Cheers, Scott Cummings ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 03:09:54 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-13-97 X-Sender: ScottO1440@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) To: DaveH47@delphi.com (Dave L. Hardenbrook) Does anybody know anything about the following? This appeared in the FYI section of The San Diego Union for March 13th: "Gita Morena, a psycho therapist, and great granddaughter of L. Frank Baum, author of The Wizard of Oz, will talk about 'traveling through Oz' on Saturday. She will discuss how the story can be used for personal healing and transformation. 10:00am -3:30 at the Center For Inner Work, 5100 Marlbourgh Dr., San Diego, $45.00. (619) 584-4697" Thanks in advance for any info! Sincerely, Scott Olsen ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 22:20:37 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-13-97 To: DAVEH47@delphi.com John W.: Right, human-shaped giants the size of the Yoops or Nandywog or Hartilaf or Loxo must be of magical origin, because ordinary flesh and blood wouldn't survive being magnified to that size while staying in proportion. (Ditto, of course, the Woggle-bug and the Frogman and Percy...) Ruth: Your post today was certainly easier to read, if it's not too much trouble for you. Shaggy: Your son's Oz story is charming. I hope it wins a prize! Craig: THE HIDDEN VALLEY OF OZ has to be something of a special case - that is, it won't go PD until 2027, so it would be necessary for BoW to get Payes's permission to reprint it. I don't know if that's easily forthcoming or not. I can't think why she'd object - BoW generally does a nicer production job than Reilly and Lee did, IMHO - but the fact that they haven't done it yet makes one wonder if she's refusing permission (or want an unacceptably high royalty). The last Thompson that's not already PD goes PD in 2010, which is much closer to our present event horizon... Peter G.: I wasn't meaning to disparage your reprints of SKY ISLAND and SEA FAIRIES - as I just said to Craig, and have said elsewhere, I think BoW does an excellent production job on books. But since they lack the color plates of the originals, I think they fall short of the quality of the Baum reprints you've done with Morrow, and (evidently) the Thompsons you're starting to reprint now. I consider the latter to be collector's copies, and as I have said before here (although I seem to be in a minority) I'd rather have a BoW facsimile than a Reilly and Lee original, because they're much better bound and printed on better paper. I've never been interested in old books because they're old. As for speculating about what you're doing before I get the printed offer, most of us probably wouldn't if we all got the printed offer at the same time. Have you considered putting THE OZ COLLECTOR onto a Web site, so that people with slow postal delivery can check the latest offers as soon as they hear about them? (I still don't have the latest OZ COLLECTOR, and this is four or five days after Craig's copy showed up at his parents' house. Not your fault, I'm sure, but the Postal Service isn't that reliable, and it seems to be especially bad in Naperville.) David Hulan ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 21:45:14 -0600 (CST) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (Atticus) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-13-97 X-Sender: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (Unverified) To: DaveH47@delphi.com (Dave L. Hardenbrook) RE: ALDOUS HUXLEY'S DRAM wasn't it actually, "a GRAMME [british spelling] is better than a damn"? referring to soma. . . incidentally, here in austin there was until recently a very nice coffehouse named soma. out of business, unfortunately. * * * "This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 22:15:00 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-13-97 To: "Dave L. Hardenbrook" Mike: I love the "book." Your son must be a delight. Have you read Road to him yet? It has Button Bright in it, a character he now knows. Or you could go on to a Trot 'n' Cap'n Bill book like Magic. Both Road and Magic have Dorothy playing a major role, too. Ruth: You've solved the problem of the line overrun. Thanks! Herm: Reminder that you said you'd tell us how to clean books. I'd like to know more. One very basic tip that Herm may forget to mention. When using an eraser, rub only up (or down) and out towards the nearest corner. Don't "scrub" with it. ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 97 01:28:59 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Happy Albert Einstein's birthday, everyone! :) Oh boy! Two days to respond to! Well, here goes... :) WILLY WONKA: Mike T. wrote: ... I very much enjoyed Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and while I enjoyed the movie in its own right (and can quote darn near every second of it...)... So can I! :) ... I have a few quibbles. Why did they change Veruca Cruz's name? They didn't...As far as I know her name was always Veruca Salt (at least in the copy of the book I have...) Why did her manner of comeuppance change (too hard to train squirrels?)? I don't think squirrels are known for they trainability, and I certainly doubt you could train them to drag a girl into a garbage chute...Of course, nowadays they could have done it with computer animation and/or "animatronics"... On the other hand, as far as the movie goes, I think her very abrupt disappearance down the chute makes for a fitting climax to her "I Want It NOW" song. :) BTW, does anyone know what ever became of Julie Dawn Cole (who played Veruca)? I always thought she was an attractive girl, even though she plays a little twit in Willy Wonka... Why did they add the whole pseudo-Asa Slugworth character? Dahl clearly wanted in the movie for Mr. Wonka to submit the five kids to that additional test of character (just because Charlie was the last one left didn't in itself mean he was worthy of inheriting the factory). Why did they change Charlie's father's occupation? They did more than that-they killed the poor guy off! (I agree that they shouldn't have done this...I always liked him, even though his role in both Willy Wonka books is small) And WHY in heaven's name did they make the Oompa-loompas impossible orange and green? Beats me. Or those odd, horn-like protuberances at the knees? (BTW, does anyone know if there were any Munchkins in Wizard of Oz who went on to play Oompa Loompas in Willy Wonka? Unlikely I know, since it was over 30 years later, but I just thought I'd ask...) DRAGONS IN OZ: Nathan wrote: Your Ozian evolutionary tree sounds interesting. Of course, Agnes was not that closely related to the dinosaurs, since she was not naturally a dragon at all. Since my MOPPET is that Mombi used her "switcharoo spell" not only to switch bodies with Ozma and the real Tippetarius (as revealed in Melody's Seven Blue Mountains of Oz) but also to switch Locasta and Orin (Orin wearing Locasta's body = Tattypoo), I assume that Mombi also exchanged Agnes' human body for a real dragon's...So just as Tip is resurrected in Seven Blue Mountains and the Good Witch of the North is resurrected in my upcoming Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz, I believe the potential is there to bring Agnes back as well ( when she goes PD of course :) ). Aaron wrote: Then again, conceiveably dinosaurs managed to migrate to Nonestica, evolve into sentient beings, found a civilization, and develop amortalizing technology. While my MOPPET does have some dinosaurs moving to Nonestica at the end of the Cretaceous Period ( while others migrated to another planet, but that's another story, my Sci-Fi novel to be exact :) :) ), the dragons proper are probably what Dr Robert Bakker calls "dinosaur uncles" (cousins of dinosaur ancestors), so that Agnes' family is likely an offshoot of the Pseudosuchians, which were sort of half-dinosaur, half-crocodile. The Pseudosuchian family Rauisuchidae, especially, bore an uncanny resemblence to the western conception of the dragon. Of course, this all only applies to flightless dragons; I don't know about flying dragons-perhaps they evolved from pterodactyls, or maybe they are "magical hybrids" as some creatures like Pegasus must be ( I challenge anyone to come up with a means by which Pegasus could have evolved by purely Darwinian means... :) ). More likely that dragons are derived from lizards... As I said, I believe some dragons, espeically unfriendly ones, are derived from Eosuchians, which are closely ancestral to lizards and snakes (and much more distantly ancestral to Dinosaurs, Pterodactyls, and Pseudosuchians). ... their physiology is decidedly ectothermic (eat a rhinoceros and then sleep a hundred years) and they are covered in scales. The Psuedosuchians had scales too... I don't know what to say about dragon metabolism except that I don't see how an ectotherm can generate fire... And there are endotherms that have long hibernations, bears for instance... MISTRANSLATION: David H. wrote: I don't think it was Perrault that made the mistranslation, but whoever translated Perrault into English. Or maybe Perrault was writing down a story he'd heard orally (which would be a mistranscription, not a mistranslation) - anyhow, the confusion was between the French sound-alike words "vair" (fur) and "verre" (glass). This is very much like the the Italian astronomer Scaparelli's observations of Mars...Scaparelli had failing eyesight to start with, but then his report of "canali" ("grooves") on Mars was mistranslated into English as "canals" (i.e. the ones in Venice), leading to a century of wild speculation about life on Mars, culminating with the IMHO rash decision that a few weird microscopic lumps on a meteorite from Mars is in fact fossils of Martian microbes... BOW REPRINTS: FWIW, I am looking forward to Book of Wonder's reprints of both Scarecrow and Royal Book...And as for a hypothetical reprint of Hidden Valley, I'd be all for it-Especially if it featured new illustrations by Eric Shanower! ) I'm also thrilled to hear that the membership of the Royal Club of Oz is over 1,000! :) This is the first Ozzy Digest to be mailed out with Eudora Light 3.0, which I just downloaded today...Let me know if the Digest looks better, worse, etc. :) ? Dave ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 15, 1997 *** @ @| V | \\\ \_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ < ] ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 20:07:42 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Aaron: I'll go ahead and process your reviews (with the slightly upgraded rating of Viking). I will be out of town this weekend, but perhaps I can post them on Sunday night. --Tyler Jones ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:46:53 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 3/13 Digest, Ruth Berman says There was a Wizard ornament (with the Wizard riding in the gondola of his balloon). IIRC, the ornament was only available to members of the Hallmark Ornament Collectors Club. In the same issue, Aaron Adelman says A mundane world example of this sort of naming was North and South Yemen, which were named that way because of their relationship along their joint border. Actually South Yemen extended further north than North Yemen! Noted in the recently received Early Spring 1997 catalog from Critics' Choice Video (1-800-367-7765): Disney's Return To Oz (AADIS000341) is available for only $12.95. (I looked for this video for years before finding it at a dealer's table at the 1996 Munchkin Convention.) Dave, no problems with the Eudora Light 3.0 Digest of 3/14. ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:29:18 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-14-97 Nathan: If the discount on the BoW ROYAL BOOK is bigger than the S&H charge then I'll order it from them. It's not as if I don't have a copy of RB for reading purposes, so the decision will be an economic one. Dave: Flying dragons, Pegasus, and centaurs are examples of magical beings that couldn't have evolved naturally in the form in which they're conventionally drawn. No vertebrate that I know of - and certainly no land vertebrate - has six limbs, and evolution doesn't run to that kind of addition. Wyverns, now, are theoretically possible, although their legs don't seem to work the way the legs of pterosaurs or bats do. They might be a line from Archeopteryx that kept the teeth but lost the feathers. There's a theoretical way that flying dragons might have evolved - if the wings developed from ribs, as in the case of some of the "flying" lizards of...Indonesia, I think it is. Those lizards can only glide, but I could see a line of development where the ribs grew longer and longer, and the muscles for stretching them out grew stronger and stronger, until eventually true flight might be possible. Any dragon like that would presumably have to stay fairly small, though. And the dragon's wings wouldn't look like bat wings, but more like a Japanese fan. David Hulan ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:03:07 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Nathan: Re: MISSING PAGES, you are right in that a "reading copy" must contain all of the text. However one can create a reading copy by transferring pages from a lesser copy, or by adding xeroxes of the missing pages. Hence the need to replace pages. And I have seen quite nice first editions where some brat tore out a single page. Such a book can be bought for very little, but if the page is skillfully replaced, it can be sold for a nice profit. Of course the customer should be told of the defect, and the price should still be way below that of a first with all the original pages. Scott Olson: I think the cover laquer spray was my idea (at least I didn't read it elsewhere). Yes, I've done a lot of work with solvents (a plug for my next installment on "Cleaning Books"!), and it does take courage. I've dissolved a lot of art work, or made the colors run, but that was on discarded trash covers of no value. Like I said, "Without some practice, work on your nice heirloom copies at your peril!" Herm Bieber ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:20:51 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest John: Some of Jinnicky's slaves may well have been created for that purpose. The most likely candidate for this would be Ginger, who was presumably a creation of the Jinn. Dave: Do you believe that all of Mombi's transformations were done by means of the Switcheroo Spell? Does this mean that there is another Tired Tailor somewhere in Oz? Even if this is not the case, it does seem likely that Orin and Agnes were enchanted by the same type of magic, since they were disenchanted at the same time. The Digest looks similar to the way it did before, but it contains no hexadecimal code, which is good. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." ? Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:53:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Mombiesque Magic in Oz 1) Bob et al., in observant Jewish communities, married women cover their hair with a snood, hat, or wig. 2) Dave, while I agree that Mombi could swap forms, it would seem that she could also straight transformations. Please note in Land that she transforms herself into a rose, a shadow, an ant, and a gryphon with no apparent form-swapping; while roses and shadows were certainly around, no roses in the Emerald City or shadows in Glinda's tent took the form of Mombi. So while it's possible that Orin's maid-in-waiting wore the form of an existing dragon, I'd hesitate to create that dragon character. One such character in the form of Dunny/Tippetarius is interesting; more than one strikes me as not sufficiently creative unless a new spin can be put on it. Also: I don't see how an endotherm can generate fire either. Either way, we're still stuck with dragons, assuming that they are derived from Terran lifeforms, as being highly (probably magically) modified. I once read in a Star Trek book a way for a vertebrate to "breathe fire"- generate hydrogen internally and ignite it by making sparks with the teeth when exhaling (assuming that doing thus doesn't blow the beastie's face off)--but I doubt it applies to Nonestican dragons, which are described as having fire inside of them (literally). Also, the Purple Dragon of Mo is described as having teeth whose roots penetrate the jaw completely and protrude from the other side, another characteristic which I am unaware of being shared with any vertebrate. The idea of dragons being from somewhere other than Earth is starting to sound good... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 12:04:31 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Ozzy Snoods I see both Bob Spark and Craig took the "snood bait". Baltimore (roughly 4000 families), where tradition dictates that married women keep their hair covered (either by hat, snood, kerchief, or wig (or hat and snood or kerchief). Thanks for the nice comments about my son's story. I hope it wins something, too (although I'm not sure if the "Junior division" has the same or different prizes than the other two divisions) Scott O.: "Gita Morena, a psycho therapist, and great granddaughter of L. Frank Baum, [snip] She's a psycho therapist? Boy, I think I'll stay fair away... What's that? A "psychotherapist"? Oh. Never mind.... Robin O.: I have not read ROAD to Baruch yet. I don't think I have a copy of it. I'll see if it's in the library, after we finish SCARWCROW. Fearless Leader: WILLY WONKA quote that mosts dates the movie: "What is this, some kind of freakout?" --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 12:17:25 -0500 (EST) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by delphi.com From: dsparker@mail.utexas.edu (Douglass S. Parker) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-14-97 John Kennedy: If there exists a good rationalization for slavery, you've made it, though I become quite uneasy when I read it. Looks to be on a par with, "They're happier among their own kind," or, "It's really a positive benefit," or, "Still, he made the trains run on time," or even the Kristoffersonian approach, "Freedom's just another name for nothing left to lose..." Not that those random quotes are suffused with the humanity of your point, but I still feel that manumission wasn't the most common terminus of slavery, not by a long shot. There's an interesting twist on your argument in the Latin playwright Terence's ADELPHOE [BROTHERS], last act. The flaming liberal [let's call him that] Micio is fairly caught by his own principles, having to free slaves, make a deed of gift, marry a woman he can't stand, and in general expend a substantial share of his estate, all because he's determined to be a Good Guy. He is finally euchred into underwriting one slave's transition into freedom. But I don't think that Micio's to be taken as your Basic Master. Like most comic endings, this one [and the Roman Comedies that conclude with the freeing of the Wily Slave], this exalts an exception into a dramaturgic rule. Anyway. I'm afraid that I read Jinnicky's slaves as necessary traditional wallpaper, contributing to the background, not to be rationalized. Heresy here, I suppose. What bothers me about Rationalization is that it always appears to be driven by the desire to make the Evils worse, and the Goods not just better, but GOODER, so that the Rationalizer is easier in mind about allotting Approval. For example, when the Wizard says, "Oh no, my dear, I'm a very good man. I'm just a very bad Wizard," well, I think he's lying. He's a very much better Wizard than he is a man, and is duly punished by the circumstances of his rehabilation, fourteen books of subordination ["and how do you do THAT, Glinda?"] to the female Trinity. This may be not at all unpleasant for him, rather like being a Greek pedagogue in an enlightened Roman household, but he's out of the mold of Twain's Duke and King, conmen whose comeuppance, if fitting, is blessedly short. Still, to each his own. My wallpaper approach is just as offline as all others, in the last analysis: In reading a book a century old, I fiddle with items I can't stomach, reach some accomodation with the dread facts so they don't or won't bother me. But at least-he preened-I don't claim that "The knout was really made of silk, and quite light, so that being 'whipped' was really a very sensual, and indeed improving experience." Ohlord, too long. But thanks mightily for the springboard. Doug Parker ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ First, a meta-meta-comment (something like that): ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Let me be at least, and probably at most, one person who regrets your capitulation to the forces of Regularity. After a brief unsettlement last fall, when I joined OD, I began to reread your missives, and take them as found and fairly free verse, where the long line swoops in its arabesques, and then the short line kicks in and calls it to account in a different tone of voice. Random example from your letter in 3/4/97: Jane Albright: William Lindsay Gresham wasn't an Oz Club member. I once ASKED FRED MEYER how the "Bugle" (Christmas 1960) came to publish Gresham's "Scarecrow to the RESCUE" ARTICLE, and he said that Gresham was a friend of Martin Gardner's, and it was GARDNER WHO GOT THE article for the Oz Club to print. You asked about the source of the STATEMENT THAT C.S. LEWIS ONCE SAID he hadn't read any of the Oz books. That was the reprint (Autumn 1995) of GRESHAM'S ARTICLE: the editor put in a paragraph of background information, and mentioned that ONCE WHEN Gresham visited his sons in England, Martin Gardner asked him to ask Lewis IF HE'D READ ANY OF the Oz books. He did, and reported back that Lewis said he hadn't. Since IT WAS IN conversation, I suppose it's possible that Lewis might have read an Oz book OR TWO OR NOT remembered it clearly enough to recognize the name offhand, but Lewis was KNOWN FOR HAVING such clear memories of everything he read that it doesn't seem likely. (And WITH SUCH A BRIEF question-and-answer, it seems likely that the LEWIS-TO-GRESHAM-TO-GARDNER-TO-EDITOR TRANSMISSION is accurate in its account of what was said.)... One of the joys of reading this is the knowledge that it's accidental, but accidental on principle. Found verse where the author has other things to think of. But there was better to come. I found myself, on the second time through, just reading the short lines. Mostly, they dazzle just the other side of meaning, and force the reader to edit, an edifying experience. Take your statement in 3/11/97, part 2, your last (sob!) swoop-thump piece: Glinda didn't have worked until suspect that made the North. As David Hulan a play means that Witches, there was the same as pamphlet was an of its own, on the Charlotte Russe, and in order to stir up his worry that the visitor hunger with some furniture. illos when they don't think and "Yew" the illos fine job of separations were on color plates, and results might look because the Oz Club did it they've skipped to "Royal includes an explanation. What's engrossing here what the precipitation makes the reader's mind DO: fill in implied blanks, re-punctuate, or isolate. "hunger with some furniture" is just about a poem in itself. Let me dissuade you from this mad course into Standardization, if I can. The Greatest Happiness of the Greatest Number is a powerful ukase, of course, but try not to forget marginal types [in more than one sense] like me, who feast on the Lagniappe that you lately scattered. Honestly, I'm quite serious about this, as serious as I am about anything. Others occasionally essay the overlong line, but I don't find there the verve that yours yield. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now, an actual QUERY, stemming from your note to me on 3/4: Doug Parker: Thanks for the additional information on Gibson. I'd imagine that Baum was partly influenced by her Gnome King in his use of gnomes and nomes, but there were a lot of Gnome Kings in 19th century operettas, notably in Wallace's "Lurline." My "Gnome Matters" Dunkiton pamphlet has more details about the development of gnomes. How can I acquire your pamphlet GNOME MATTERS ? Do you have an address for DUNKITON? Your mention of C19 operettas sent me back to looking at the archetypal musical comedy, Charles M. Barras's THE BLACK CROOK of 1866. Wildly popular, and LFB must certainly have encountered it, if not produced/acted in it. No [G]Nome Kings, but a "Queen of the Golden Realm" named STALACTA, and some named gnomes who are her subjects: GOLDDUST, NUGGETNOSE, YELLOWSCALE, SPANGLENECK, SMELTERFACE, PINCHBACK. And Stalacta's statement at the end of Act II: "In the secret cells of these caverns, whose walls are solid gold, LIE COUNTLESS HOARDS OF RICHEST TREASURE, gleaned for ages by the tireless gnomes..." All of which your pamphlet doubtless has. But I do want to know more. Not to forget, of course, the lovely short-line trouvaille in that note: that Baum was partly a lot of Gnome It figures. Thanks a lot. Doug Parker ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:36:22 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Ruth Berman: You were absolutely correct in identifying those German quotations. I was much amused at your puzzling out of "Achtet nicht auf den Mann hinter dem Vorhang" as "Eight nights with a foreigner." For what it's worth, that would be "Acht Naechte mit einem Auslaender." (Or possibly "mit einer Auslaenderin" if it is a foreign woman.) David H.: Thanks for your suggestion that the Pilgrim quotation is from Stagecoach. I'll follow up on that. Oddly enough, none of the John Wayne web sites supply any information on this, nor do the movie quotation sites. Mike "Shaggy Man": BTW, I don't think the ballet number in Oklahoma contributed a THING to the story. That big ballet sequence was included to establish Oklahoma! as a serious musical with links to the tradition of grand opera, which routinely included a ballet at the beginning of Act III. (If you want to talk about an irrelevant ballet, you should see the third-act opening of Meyerbeer's _The Prophet_, with ballerinas dancing prettily en pointe to the Skater's Waltz where minutes earlier a throng of bloodthirsty Anabaptists had stormed across the stage.) The engagement of Agnes DeMille to do the choreography also contributed a lot to the prestige of the Oklahoma! ballet, since her work on Copland's Rodeo and Billy the Kid had already demonstrated that serious ballet could successfully accommodate itself to the idioms of heartland Americana. As far as the story is concerned, the ballet is an extended dream sequence (Laurie's just taken some kind of semi-hallucinatory medicine from the peddlar Ali Hakim) that is intended to reveal Laurie's anxieties about her ambivalent feelings for Curly as well as her impending relationship with Jud Fry, whom her unconcious mind correctly identifies as an abusive brute who views women as whores. By today's standards, the whole thing admittedly seems a little dated and pretentious. Nevertheless-and here is where the connection with Oz comes in-the big dream sequence is further evidence of the kind of thinking that went into the MGM Wizard of Oz (which premiered just three years before Oklahoma!), in connection with the mainstream popularization of Freud in the 30's and 40's; namely the idea that dreams aren't just idle fantasy but have a revelatory function. As "the royal road to the unconscious"- Freud's term-they put you in touch with the deepest levels of the mind. (Actually what Freud said was that dreams reveal more clearly than waking thought the repressive mechanisms with which the mind protects itself from recognizing its desires and fears, but the popular reading of Freud saw dreams as a kind of technicolor allegory a la Salvador Dali.) In other words, the inclusion of an extended dream sequence made these works seem more truthful rather than less truthful, and contemporary viewers of _The Wizard of Oz_ would have been less likely than today's viewers to write off Dorothy's experiences as "just a dream." Dave: We seem to be getting way behind schedule with the BCF, but it's fine with me if we wait until the week of March 24 with the discussion of Land. ? Gordon Birrell ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:54:36 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-13-97 Mike, I laughed out loud at your son's, um, story! Tell him I'd like to hear more about the magic stone. And, yes, the Tin Woodman's last line is priceless. AS LONG AS WE HAVEN'T FINISHED... ...the discussion of "Wizard", there are a couple more points I'd like to get in. 1. Dorothy's whistle. Where did it come from? The Queen of the Field Mice didn't give it to her. The Queen said to just "come out into the field and call" when the mice were wanted again. 2. Someone brought up the question of road repair in Oz. You'll notice that the road gets rougher as the surrounding country gets wilder, suggesting that this was an "abandoned" part of Munchkinland. Might I suggest that this part of Munchkinland was closer to the witch's castle (or base of operations, whatever) than the part where Dorothy's house landed. This raises the question, what was the Wicked Witch of the East doing in that part of the country? Don't you think it coincidental that her visit to that part of the country happened at about the same time as the Scarecrow's creation? Could there be some connection, like the farmer accidentally using straw or cloth that the witch had enchanted for another purpose? Or perhaps the witch simply didn't encourage travel by her subjects to the Emerald City, hence the barriers placed in their way (chasms in the road, lack of bridges, things like that). The less use a road gets, the more disrepair it is likely to fall into (if we assume that Oz has American-style weather). 3. Speaking of the Emerald City, are we to assume (not looking at the map, or ahead to any other book) that the river goes all the way around the Emerald Country? (A useful precaution if you're afraid of invasion by meltable witches.) 4. About my previous commment on age and appearances. I don't know why (something to do with nutrition, no doubt) but people used to look older than they do today. I know for a fact that both of my grandmothers looked older at seventy than their daughters did. This is not a child's memory, either, this is based on photographs. Nutrition probably had something to do with it, and harder work, or a harder life. I still don't think sixty is an outrageous assumption for a woman described as having white hair and a wrinkled face in 1899, but if it mollifies you to bump her age up to seventy (or even eighty) be my guest. I'd love to draw some parallel between Aunt EM and the City of EMeralds, but for the life of me I can't. -- Eleanor ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:12:20 -0500 (EST) From: ZMaund@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-14-97 Cc: phanff@library.berkeley.edu We have not yet started a bibliographical evaluation of The Show Window. One block has been the comparatively few numbers of exisiting copies. It's true that bibliographical descriptions of _Baum's Complete Stamp Dealers Directory_ and The Book of the Hamburgs have been printed in the Bugle, but these are so scarce that all we ~could~ do was provide a description of what was at hand. Conversely, there may be enough copies of _The Show Window_ in existence that a decent comparison of multiple examples may yield some information about the printing of the book. Short answer: we ain't done it yet. It's nowhere near as much fun as _Sky Island_. ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:16:39 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Cc: HermBieber@aol.com Craig Noble: $45 is a fair retail price for Zauberlinda, assuming its a very good or better copy. Incidentally, there seems to be some general confusion about nomenclature on book condition in describing "Oz finds" in the Digest. For the record, I cite the OFFICIAL book trade definitions, as stated in the Bookman's Weekly, the antiquarian book dealer's magazine: AS NEW: In the same immaculate condition as when published. FINE: Approaches "As New", but withour being crisp. The book must have no defects, and if the jacket has a small tear or shows some wear, it must be noted. VERY GOOD: A used book that shows some small signs of wear, but no tears, on either binding or paper. All defects must be noted. GOOD: the average used and worn book that has all pages or leaves present. Any defects must be noted. FAIR: a worn book that has complete text pages, including illustrations, but may lack endpapers, half title, etc. Binding and jacket, if any, may also be worn. All defects must be noted. POOR: describes a book that is sufficiently worn that its only merit is as a READING COPY because it does have the complete text, which must be legible. Any missing maps or plates should be noted. This copy may be soiled, scuffed, stained or spotted, and may have loose joints, hinges, pages, etc. EX-LIBRARY copies and BOOK CLUB EDITIONS must always be noted as such, no matter what the condition of the book. BINDING COPY describes a book in which the pages or leaves are perfect, but the binding is very bad, loose, off or non-existent. So Peter Glassman can well be peeved when you call his handsome reproductions "reading copies". They are late reprint editions, and since they contain additional material or new plates, can justifiably be called "first edition, thus." Scott Cummings: Baum published "The Art of Decorating Dry Goods Windows and Interiors in 1900 (The Show Window Publishing Co., Chicago). I have seen several editions, and I don't believe there was ever a definitive description in the Baum Bugle. Baum founded and edited the magazine, "Show Window", from 1897 to 1902. The book is certainly scarce, but I suspect there are a fair number out there. Since most do not associate it with Baum, its the kind of technical thing many book dealers don't carry. Look for it at antique shops and dealers in ephemera. Scott Olson: I'm sure $45 will do a lot of personal healing for Ms. Morena! Herm Bieber ===================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:50:40 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls John - In the spirit of enquiry, how does one die of cellulitis of the feet. Definition: A diffuse, often rapidly spreading inflammation of the tissues, especially of the skin and of the subcutaneous structures. Hmmm - My copy of du Vivier's "Dermatology" says: An acute infection of the dermis and subcutaneous tissues by Streptococcus pyogenes, and occasionally other organisms, which may cause a profound systemic disturbance. Ugh. Reading further I get the idea and will not bother to share it. It is treatable with penicillen or erythromycin but sounds really nasty. The point of entry is often a minor abrasion between the toes. Ruth - Thanks for your thoughtfullness. Now Mike has taken your place! Sigh. Scott - Short term memory is the second thing to go. :) Mike - That really is a joke about the snood right? If not, where is your community. I want to visit. Well, I am off to overfly Eric. I'll try not to drop anything. Regards, Bear ===================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Mar 97 10:10:40 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DRAGONS: David H. wrote: There's a theoretical way that flying dragons might have evolved - if the wings developed from ribs... Or highly modified scales...Perhaps the flying dragon evolved from Longisquama, a Pseudosuchian that it is had a row (or two?) of very long scale-like appendages down its back. It has been speculated that these long scales, which could be folded and unfolded like a fan, were actually in two rows on its back, and could be used for gliding from tree to tree (although others says they were just for temprature regulation or territorial/courtship display), and so perhaps increased strength and a skin membrane turned them into dragon's wings??? I agree however that other creatures like Pegasus, Pigasus, and Gryphons could only have been created by very ancient genetic sorcerers who clearly thought they were being creative... :) WIZARD: The only problem I see with the "water completely surrounding Emerald City" theory is that the Wizard clearly didn't know witches could be melted with water, otherwise he would have realized that killing Old Snarl-Spats (= Bastinda = the Witch of the West) was within the realm of possibility, and he would have then given Dorothy, &c. some other "very small task"...Also, if he had but known, wouldn't he have long ago marched over there, liquidated the two witches once and for all, and then people would really have thought he was a Wonderful Wizard??! LOCASTA NEEDS "SPIN DOCTORS"??? Locasta (on the Oz-o-phone): Hello, Marlin Fitzwater, Dee Dee Meyers, and George Stephanopolous? Some Ozian commentators are saying that my resurrection is "not sufficiently creative"-So I need some Spin Doctors to jusify my existance! Spin Doctors: Can't you just say, "No comment" and leave it at that? :) :) :) ? Dave ? Dave Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The Wizard of Oz online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" ? Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 17, 1997 *** @ @| V | \\\ \_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ < ] ===================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:36:27 -0500 (EST) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-14-97 Craig: $45 for Zauberlinda is fair for a nice copy. Don't pay that much for a shabby copy. Mine cost about that much and its from Dick Martin's collection and is quite fine. Joel ===================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:39:15 -0500 (EST) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-14-97 Sorry, but two posts today. Everyone: I feel stupid, but what is "The Royal Club of Oz". I assume this is different that IWOC? Joel ===================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 10:22:49 -0500 (EST) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: Oz Dave Hardenbrook writes: ( I challenge anyone to come up with a means by which Pegasus could have evolved by purely Darwinian means... :) ). Pegasus suffer the same problem as oversized giants-they couldn't be made to work with ordinary bone and muscle. The problem is that the bigger something is, the harder it is for it to fly. The heaviest flying creatures to evolve on our planet only weighed about as much as a man, and even then they needed an enormous wingspan and a body highly optimized for flight (such as a large part of their body weight being flight muscle). Of course, with enough magical enhancement you could make a pair of sofas fly with only a few palm leaves for wings. ... except that I don't see how an ectotherm can generate fire... If you don't insist that the fire actually be inside the creature, then there is no problem. The creature could have three glands. One gland would be very large and would emit fine spray of a highly flammable gasoline-like liquid. The other two glands could be small and have chemicals that spontaneously ignite when mixed. (There are many pairs of chemicals that will do this.) This would serve to ignite the spray of flammable liquid making it look like the creature is breathing fire. Having a continuous fire inside a creature is more of a problem. Ordinary biological materials would be destroyed by the heat, and the fire would need a lot a fuel to keep it going (unless there is magic involved, of course). Note that someone observing a creature breath fire might assume there is fire inside the creature, even if there isn't. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ===================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:59:57 -0600 (CST) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (Atticus) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-15-97 DOUG PARKER: that latest posting, particularly the part about poetry, was pretty damn weird. however, it was also a lot more interesting than the usual digest fare. remind me not to stay at UT too long . Atticus "WHAT'S all this about Pseudosuchians?" Gannaway * * * "Do I just think I'm ultra-chic for living in a place without cuspidors, where I can wear all black without getting lynched?" from "Concerning Rural Highways" ===================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:23:08 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-15-97 I finally received the Fall 1996 Baum Bugle. It's my first Bugle since Winter 1985! It was truly a pleasure to see so many familiar names in print. David, I thought your review of Wicked was right on target. I'm almost done reading the book and must admit enjoying it. Herm: Thanks for the descriptions of book conditions. Judging condition still seems somewhat subjective and thus difficult. I suppose good judgement comes with practice. -- Craig Noble ===================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 18:27:26 -0500 (EST) From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Jane: Re Hallmark ornament suggestions, I would love to see many characters, (Sawhorse, Scraps, Wogglebug, etc) but I assume Hallmark is only interested in producing figures from the movie, which would be more marketable to the general public. The Wizard would be a great choice, as those who are not members of their club could buy one. David: The BoW discount on Royal Book is $3.00. S/H is $4.75. Shaggy Man: I, too, enjoyed your son's story. Dick (still reading 10 days of Digests) Randolph ===================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 19:04:47 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-15-97 Bear: Cellulitis usually occurs only when an infection goes untreated or is mistreated. You don't want details, believe me. Granulation is often a sign of it, but none of us will ever have that kind of problem, right?! Doug Parker: I enjoyed both arguments! (Slavery and Wizard) NOT too long a post for me. Thanks for sharing. Mike: If the library doesn't have a copy of Road, I'll find one somewhere for Baruch, if you want me to do so. Or you can order one from IWOC;I think we have the Del Rey pb in stock. Book Repair: I got a nifty tip today. When you need to hold a book together in order to let glue set, it may be helpful to wrap an Ace bandage around it to keep everything in place. Never, ever use rubber bands. A bandage plus weight should do the trick pretty well. --Robin ===================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 20:37:22 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-15-97 This Digest is duplicated through Nathan's post. Interesting. (And Tyler's was in yesterday's Digest as well. Lots of reps for a short post...) Me: Since I finally got my OZ COLLECTOR yesterday, I know that I can save $3 on ROYAL BOOK by ordering it pre-pub, at the cost of $4.75 S&H. I think I'll wait and pick it up at Borders. (If Borders doesn't carry it, then I'm out the $3, but I can afford to wait. Besides, I may get to New York or a convention where BoW is selling.) Aaron: By you, Orthodox and "observant" Jewish communities may be the same thing, but not by most American Jews. And it's only in the former where married women cover their hair. Shaggy: And I think your post lost a line, though I knew what you meant. You could always pick up a copy of the Del Rey ROAD to read to Baruch, unless he really wants the full-size illustrations to look at while you read. (As an adult I don't like ROAD much, but I remember liking it a lot when I read it as a kid. It was one I didn't own, and I remember feeling horribly let down when I finally found a copy when I was thirtysomething and reread it. Insipid.) Dunkiton Press is Ruth's own imprint, and the address is hers. (Of course, I'm not going to post that; it's up to her.) Gordon: I'm surprised that "Pilgrim" quote isn't on the JW site, at least if they have any quotes from him. I've certainly heard it often enough, but the only Wayne movie that I watch over and over is THE QUIET MAN, and I know it's not from there. Ballets in traditional grand opera served the same purpose as the female choruses in the Oz stage musicals - perking up the tired businessman (or in the earlier days, Gentleman) in the fourth row with the sight of lotsa female legs that were rather less visible otherwise than female breasts are today. Eleanor: I'd missed that. Where -did- Dorothy's whistle come from? And jumping ahead a book, the Tin Woodman still has it in LAND. As for roads, you've reminded me of a book that I just finished reading last night - Carole Nelson Douglas's CAT IN A DIAMOND DAZZLE. There are several sequences that take place at the MGM Grand in Vegas, with a lot of Oz references (and Douglas evidently knows the books, since she refers to the "Tin Woodman" and not the "Tin Man"). Anyhow, Midnight Louie, the cat who is one of the protagonists in the series, came up with this amusing (if PG-13 rated) quote: "By the way, do you have any idea of why the Yellow Brick Road is yellow? This is real insider stuff, so listen up. Toto. Yup. For a pipsqueak, he was mighty powerful in the elimination department. Dogs will do it anywhere, you know." Maybe in Oz it would possible to have a river go all around an area. (Think of the Trick River in PG that flowed both ways.) But in general rivers flow downhill, and it's hard for anyone but Escher to arrange for things to run downhill in a circle... Sixty probably isn't an -outrageous- assumption for a woman with white hair and a wrinkled face, but it's certainly at the young end for that description, even in 1899. And Oz probably wasn't as hard on people as America in those days, either. Bear: Your collection includes a copy of du Vivier's Dermatology? Definitely one up on me! Dave: Highly modified scales for dragons' wings are another possibility, though I think less likely than ribs. And even if the Wizard had known that water would liquidate the WWs, he'd have to get close enough to them to toss water - which would mean getting past her bees and crows and wolves, none of which he was really fitted to pass. David Hulan ===================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 23:58:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Amazing Coincidences in Oz? 1) Eleanor, Gingemma was in where she was when her descendants collected on her falling house insurance policy because she was sick and tired of her servant Nimee Ammee falling in love with men who hadn't the sense to leave her alone after suffering from multiple suspicious amputations, and so she decided to collect the proper herbs to turn Nimee Ammee into an old hag so that no one would fall in love with her again. (See _Tin Woodman_.) If I remember correctly, the Yellow Brick Road was falling into disrepair not around where the Tin Woodman lived (which is near the probable location of where Gingemma lived), but further west in the Central Blue Forest, which is where the Cowardly Lion and the kalidahs lived. The explaination for the Scarecrow being alive is given in _The Royal Book of Oz_, which, interestingly enough, despite being written by Thompson during her term as Royal Historian of Oz and hence being highly cannonical, has been attacked previously in the Digest. I won't give the specifics here, but it has nothing to do with Gingemma, but rather underground politics. As such, I must theorize one of two things: 1) The Magic Machine forces events to happen out of accordance with untouched probability just to have fun or irritate Glinda. This would definitely explain why an anomalously large number of magical events out of proportion to most of the other people in the Oz books have happened to Dorothy. 2) The Scarecrow coming to life at a convenient time is just a coincidence. By extension, Dorothy is just unlucky. I don't think one can claim even just from Wizard that the Emerald City is surrounded by a river. Dorothy and company did not encounter any river going west. 2) Dave, hey! I didn't claim your revival of the Good Witch of the North was uncreative. I claimed that overuse of the switcheroo spell was uncreative, especially since Mombi is known to have had other methods of transformation. For comparison, Bastinda had whistle control over 40 wolves, 40 bees, and 40 crows, the Golden Cap, and an invisibility spell, and that was all she could do before Winkie Freedom Day. Mombi, on the other hand, could do the switcheroo spell, pure transformation (even into the form of a shadow and of fairies as well as humans), extremely realistic illusions, possible evasion of Glinda's informational spells, several things she got from Dr. Nikidik, and there is no reason to assume that was the limit of her powers. We already have two recent claims of Mombi having used the switcheroo spell-on Dunny & Ozma and on Orin & Locasta. As we know that she had more tricks up her sleeve than that, is it too much to ask that people invoke other tricks she was known to do (and maybe some ones we have not heard of before!) instead of evoking the same spell time after time? Also: remind me to do a tactical analysis of Bastinda vs. Mombi when we start on Land, please. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman óñåé ìå àù ïá äîìù ïøäà adelman@yu1.yu.edu ===================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 03:20:27 -0500 (EST) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by delphi.com From: dsparker@mail.utexas.edu (Douglass S. Parker) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-15-97 A note to RUTH BERMAN: I seem to have mastered, all unknowing, the art of writing a disappearing salutation. And so, let me imbed your name, RUTH BERMAN, thus in the text in the hope that indication of whom I'm talking to won't utterly vanish, as yours did from my letter yesterday. The remarks on the long-line/short-line setup, AND the request for information on GNOME MATTERS, were directed to you. Might this have something to do with the fact that my header doesn't seem to indicate the date and time of sending? I have no idea. But thanks, RUTH BERMAN, for your indulgence. Doug Parker ===================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 07:59:05 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 3/15 Digest, Doug Parker says that the Wizard . I agree and I think that as we go through the books we will be able to note several instances that show his subordination- although accepted -- still does chafe. ===================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 11:09:52 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Doug P.: You are not alone! I too have wondered why Ruth Berman should accommodate herself to the Procrustean Bed of standardized line lengths and thereby lose all the accidental poetry of her "swoop/thump" formatting. (I love that phrase!) The alternation of long and short lines is an excellent example of the way formal devices prompt the construction of meaning-in this case, secondary and unintended meanings that are highly evocative in their own right, and perhaps more so in counterpoint to the closely reasoned primary meanings. Ruth: I can understand, however, that you might be a bit irritated at having your postings interpreted both as serious discursive writing and as inadvertent Dada. More on dreams: When I was teaching at Princeton a number of years ago, an alumnus wrote a letter to the alumni magazine describing a recurrent nightmare he had in which he was on his way to a final examination (at Princeton, of course) for which he was totally unprepared-hadn't done any of the readings, hadn't attended the lectures. In response to this letter, the alumni magazine was flooded with letters from other graduates who had had precisely the same dream, even decades after they left the university. It's a variation on the inadequacy dream of being in a play and not knowing the lines, but what I think is fascinating is how the generic dream can reconfigure itself and come to express the collective unconscious of the members of a specific social group. It's nice to know that the Ozzy Digest has a collective unconscious too-all those dreams of poking around in a bookshop and finding the indescribable treasure of an unread Oz book! --Gordon Birrell ===================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 13:41:34 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-15-97 Looking over older digests, I saw Aaron Solomon's query on "The Flying Thief of Oz" by Jon L. Breen. This definitely belongs on the HACC. It is set between DOTWIZ and EC. I cannot tell whether it is before or after ROAD, but there is a Flutterbugdet in it. The title character is The Magnificent Mennen (Hey, do you think this is wher Nick De Noia got the idea for the magnificent major?). The only thing in it the least bit contradictory is that it is stated that there is no electricity in Oz, which we know is not the case. I can't remember if it is Mennen or the Wizard who says otherwise, but remember TIK-TOK and the fact that Oz had a presumably electric light in the ceiling of his chamber. "A Murder in Oz" ought to be one of the easiest books to put on the HACC. I'd put it at 1958. The Shaggy Man states that Dorothy is sixty- three years old. I also don't like the YOPPeT of slowed aging. I wonder how old Courtney Barilla and Angelica Vale were when they played Dorothy. These two seemed the right age. Dorothy's tombstone in _The Dreamer of Oz_ indicates that she is six. (Yes, I know, Dorothy Gage died in infancy.) There doesn't seem a good deal of support for this slowed aging. To me, Dorothy seems much older and more mature by the time of EC than she was in Wizard. Of course, my novel is in line with the old HACC puting TMLoO in 1903, to the point of stating actual dates to increase verisimilitude. Dorothy and the Green Gobbler of Oz was Romeo Muller's original novel which was developed into or from his short film _Oz_/_Thanksgiving in Oz_/_Dorothy in the Land of Oz_/_Christmas in Oz_.../// About my novel, does anyone (namely, the judges) think a prayer chapel is too unOzzy for a contest novel? It's inclusion is brief but essential. Besides, judging from what I know about Baum's religious beliefs, he would have like the church I attend. I realize Baum only mentions a church in TWWoO, but could something like this really disqualify it under that rule? Scott P.S.: Looking over printouts of the digest from the first half of February, there is no way my entry will truly be anonymous to the judges, they will know, but, as Dorothy says "it can't be helped now." ===================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 13:57:23 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-15-97 David: Oh, I forgot about shipping and handling. You should probably wait until the book comes out in stores, since the discount is only $3. Aaron: Good point about Mombi's transformations. I kinda doubt that there was a Mombi body growing on a rose-bush when the witch turned herself into a rose. Doug: The name "Stalacta" sounds similar to Stalac, which was the name of a Prince or Princess in "Into the Cave," a chapter that Jack Snow originally intended to put into Shaggy Man. I have never read this chapter, but I have read of it. Eleanor: In Tin Woodman, it is reported that the WWE lives in the same forest in which Dorothy discovered the Tin Woodman, and that she was in the vicinity of Dorothy's falling house to gather herbs with which to enchant Nimmie Amee (the girl that Nick Chopper loved). The WWE might have placed some of the barriers on the YBR, although there is no definite evidence of this. It is notable that, in Royal Book, the Scarecrow takes much the same path through the Munchkin Country that he did in Wizard, but it was not mentioned that he encountered any obstacles other than the Munchkin River. Dave: Pigasus, IIRC, is reported to have been created by Jinnicky. This does not necessarily mean that he was created from scratch, however. The Jinn might have worked with a normal pig, eventually making this creature into the poetical, psychic, winged pig that we all know and love. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." ? Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ===================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 20:47:26 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-15-97 I have been out for Spring Break, with no access to my messages, for a week, so I'm going to reply to some, but not all, of what's been said this week. Way back on the 7th: David Hulan: Yes, I meant hyphens-turned-copywright symbols. (Perhaps I ought to say what I mean once in awhile...) Dave Hardenbrook: I think that for simplicity we should say, no adaptations are good adaptations. That is, unless an adaptation is word for word (or almost that), it is almost always inferior to the original-of whatever medium. 3/8-- Rich: Disney owned the rights to RINKATINK? I didn't know that! Lucky the company didn't decide to do its worst to it... 3/10: David Hulan: Re Mary Poppins: the movie has a lot of fluff and little substance, IMHO (did I get the abbr right?). 3/11: Nathan: An infinite library? Wow! I'd love to be there, that's for sure! Also, interesting how SWORD IN THE STONE was written in 1939, and we all know what other historic event happened that year (and I'm not referring to any part of WWII). 3/15: Dave: Couldn't the Wiz have deliberately dug the river around the E.C. BECAUSE he knew witches could be melted? --Jeremy Steadman ===================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 97 00:44:04 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things I'm becoming worried that these little weird occurences (missing lines, duplicate posts, etc.) people are reporting in the Digest are due to a couple of very subtle bugs in my "Make_Digest" program...Could everyone make sure to point out to me every little strange thing you see, And I'll try to pinpoint the problem and fix my program... FWIW, I went out and took a look at the sign in front of Dorothy's fallen house, and what is says verbatim is: "Here lies the house of Dorothy Gale, preserved exactly as it was when in the year 3 BO ["Before Ozma"] it landed on Old Sand-Eye [The W. W. of the East] and killed her, freeing us from tyranny and bondage. The preservation of this site is made courtesey of the MMOH ["Munchkin Museum of Ozian History"]." BTW, in the Ozzy calendar scheme, GRO ("Glorious Reign of Ozma") denotes the years after her coronation...e.g. the current year, assuming the HACC is correct, is GRO 96. Joel wrote: I feel stupid, but what is "The Royal Club of Oz". I assume this is different that IWOC? The Royal Club of Oz is the Oz club run by Books of wonder...It produces a bi-monthly newsletter, The Emerald City Mirror, which contains news of goings-on in Oz, and also Ozzy stories, games, contests, etc. The Royal Club is a bit more children-oriented than IWOC, but adults have a lot of fun as well! (I was a member of the Royal Club before I joined IWOC!) Their address is: The Royal Club of Oz P.O. Box 714 New York, NY 10011 Scott wrote: "A Murder in Oz" ought to be one of the easiest books to put on the HACC. I must admit that I'm still confused on how Murder can be in the HACC at all since it resurrects Tip and ergo fatally contradicts the far Ozzier Seven Blue Mountains... Aaron wrote: 2) Dave, hey! I didn't claim your revival of the Good Witch of the North was uncreative. I claimed that overuse of the switcheroo spell was uncreative, especially since Mombi is known to have had other methods of transformation. Okay, I see what you were saying... :) For comparison, Bastinda had whistle control over 40 wolves, 40 bees, and 40 crows, the Golden Cap, and an invisibility spell, and that was all she could do before Winkie Freedom Day. Mombi, on the other hand, could do the switcheroo spell, pure transformation (even into the form of a shadow and of fairies as well as humans), extremely realistic illusions, possible evasion of Glinda's informational spells, several things she got from Dr. Nikidik, and there is no reason to assume that was the limit of her powers. This is very interesting, considering Baum's assertion that Mombi "was not exactly a witch" and other implications that she was the weakest of the three...It's beginning to look as though she was the strongest! Mombi: I'd like to see those inefficient cousins of mine kidnap the Ozian royal family, or enchant Ozma and Pastoria, or banish Locasta, or create Quiberon, or... Taarna: Of course, you could have done none of it if it hadn't been for me, because- Kabumpo: Say no more, lest I make you into a witch-pancake! Taarna: Can I say what I was going to if Dave puts "SPOILERS FOR LOCASTA AND THE THREE ADEPTS OF OZ" around it? Aujah: No, because Dave doesn't want to spoil all of his story for everyone, and he finally figured out that everyone reads what's in those "spoiler" warnings anyway... :) :) Jeremy wrote: Also, interesting how SWORD IN THE STONE was written in 1939, and we all know what other historic event happened that year (and I'm not referring to any part of WWII). I find it interesting what a big year 1939 was for movies-Besides the "historic" one that we need not name :) , 1939 gave us Gone With the Wind, Gunga Din, Beau Geste, Goodbye, Mr. Chips, Hunchback of Notre Dame, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Bringing Up Baby, Bachelor Mother, etc., etc... :) ? Dave ? Dave Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The Wizard of Oz online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" ? Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 18, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:00:33 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-17-97 I've now gotten around to reading the REST of the Digests I missed last week. The 12th: Tyler: I think increasing granularity is an ingrained habit. The 13th: "Shaggy": I like the mini-story--I think it's cute (about like my first book, at the tender age of six). I'll have to read the Digest of the 17th at some other point, because I have to go to class now. Until next time, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 08:37:12 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Geozify: Do we have anybody on the digest from the area around San Antonio Texas? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:14:56 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-17-97 Aaron: We don't know that the spells you mention were all the WWW could do before she was liquidated. (In fact, we know that she could see clearly for tens of miles, which certainly isn't ordinary vision.) All we know is that those were the only spells she used against Dorothy. It's quite possible, for instance, that she could do transformations as well as Mombi; she just didn't have occasion to. Mombi presumably couldn't do transformations at a distance, either, or she'd have transformed the Scarecrow, Tip, & company into something innocuous instead of trying all those confusion spells she used to keep them away from the EC. The WWW presumably couldn't transform Dorothy because of the GWN's kiss, she'd have no reason to transform Toto (other than pure meanness), and she wanted the lion to be her slave _as a lion_, so she wouldn't want to transform him. She may have been able to bring inanimate objects to life, for that matter, but just didn't. We don't know the limits of her powers, except that she was unable to harm Dorothy directly. (I wouldn't be surprised if the silver shoes had a role in that, too, along with the GWN's kiss.) Jeremy: There certainly wasn't a great deal of substance in the MARY POPPINS movie, but I thought there was considerably more than there was in the book. Dave (and Joel): The RCOO is so different from the IWOC that there's almost no overlap or conflict between their purposes. The IWOC is a member-run club devoted primarily to scholarly and social activities associated with Oz, including books, plays, and movies; the RCOO is a proprietary club devoted primarily to publicizing Oz books - which it does by publishing new Oz stories, material about Oz writers, puzzles, contests, etc. Both are very valuable in spreading the word about Oz among the general public, and neither interferes in any way I can see with the mission of the other. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 15:04:56 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-15-97 This is a pretty odd site. http://www.ps.uni-sbide/oz/ Also, here are the urls for som Neill art. www.halcyon.com/piglet/images/ozma.jpg witchsou.jpg jack.gif Also visit www.munchkinland.com. They will answer your oddest, most inside questions, like when I asked Tin Boy if he had axed Fenrir (a reference to Carroll's _The Runestone_, and he said, "no, that's another fantasy world." Andrea says Ozma will be appearing in future episodes, in case you're wondering if she was a replacement. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:44:23 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-17-97 Prayer chapel: I doubt it'd disqualify the ms. "Shaggy": One caveat on _Road_: it mentions a number of Baum non-Oz characters at the birthday party. Baruch won't know these characters, but you can just tell him their books will be something to look forward to. It shouldn't frustrate him much, if at all. (And somehow I think it won't bother him. It did bother me, but I didn't have a parent reading to me and I'd read lots of Oz books already and wondered how I could have missed those darned characters.) The more I think about it, the more I think that this one book should be read from the hardback R&L version because of the intricate linework in the illustrations. I'd hate for Baruch to miss that. I don't have one in stock right now, but I can look for one for you. Ask Herm if he has one. His prices are very good; he'll be more than fair with you. David: _The Quiet Man_ is one of my all-time favorite movies with one of my all-time favorite lines in it (Here's a stick to beat the fine lady with..." is a rough paraphrase. Remember?) It sticks pretty closely to the original short story, although it changes some names,etc. Do you want a copy of the ss? I think you'd like it. I can bring you a xerox this summer. (Don't ask me to mail it, please. I'm perfectly dreadful about getting 'round to mailing things.) --R. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:50:13 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-17-97 A final comment (sort of) on _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_: There's been some discussion by people wondering what a Neil-illustrated edition would have looked like. A possible glimpse may be found on the pictorial endpapers of the _Road to Oz_ first edition. (The same endpapers are used on the R&L "white" editions.) The endpapers are a of collage of different Oz and Baum characters. Towards the bottom right of the left endpaper, there appear to be Neil illustrations of the Wicked Witch of the West and a winged monkey. Has anyone else noticed this? _Wicked_: I finally finished Maguire's book last night. The ending was perhaps my least favorite part. It wasn't just the anti-climax from knowing in advance that Elphaba would get killed by Dorothy. It was unsatisfying because there didn't seem to be any resolution at the end. I almost feel as if I should reread the last section in case I missed something. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 15:24:36 -0500 (EST) From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi! Playing catchup once again... Bob Spark wrote: <> Fine with me, too! Peter Glassman wrote: <> A reasonable explanation, and I have only a few quibbles. That sounds very much like the explanation Bobbs-Merrill and other publishers had for re-illustrating THE WIZARD OF OZ, with illustrations by Evelyn Copelman, Dale Ulrey and others. All excellent artists, but now most editions, including yours, have the original Denslow illustrations, and don't seem to suffer. If Denslow's art is good enough for WIZARD, why not for DOT AND TOT? Especially since Robert Abbott, your replacement artist, is shamelessly influenced by Denslow and uses a virtually identical style not only in that book but in his other art for BoW. If you thought the Denslow style would be off-putting to current readers, why not engage an artist with a more modern style, like Eric Shanower or Trina Hyman? And what makes the success of a book on its initial release is any indication of how well it will do in rerelease? FATHER GOOSE: HIS BOOK was a phenomenal success in 1899, but I don't see anyone making plans for a new edition. Personally, I much preferred the earlier explanations as to the difficulty of reproducing the art, especially the complexity of handling the bleeding onto the text. I found the effect charming in THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW, but I can see that it might be prohibitively expensive to reproduce in the case of a book without built-in name recognition like THE WIZARD OF OZ. Scott Olsen wrote: <> I'm sure I told the Digest the story of how I encountered the original novel (as opposed to the Disney movie and/or Little Golden Book) while waiting for my mother when she and my second-grade teacher were conversing, at the same time as JACK PUMPKINHEAD OF OZ, my first (and last for over a decade) Thompson Oz book. I read one book, borrowed the other, and read and reread it several times before it had to go back. For the next three decades I regretted having read JACK PUMPKINHEAD first and borrowing PINOCCHIO, because I liked them about equally well (with perhaps a slight edge for JACK becauyse it was an Oz book) but I had many more chances to reread PINOCCHIO in later years, whereas JACK PUMKINHEAD was virtually impossible to find by that time. <> Very interesting that you should bring this up at the same time a real-life baby with similar, though reverse, gender confusion (born a boy, mutilated in an accident and raised as a girl, but now through choice and surgery a man again) was mentioned in the news. Very likely Tip/Ozma faced the same situation in a land without psychoanalysts...but, once again, Thompson seemed to give her a more vindictive personality in that one book than Baum ever did (or, usually, Thompson did). <> I seem to recall she was quoted, when someone pointed out she had apparently been writing a newspaper children's page at the age of 13, along the lines of "I was *very* young! Why shouldn't a child write a children's page?" Michael Turniansky wrote: (SPOILER FOR "WHO CENSORED ROGER RABBIT?") <> "Roget?" Did he write a thesaurus, too? And not *that* big a spoiler, since the book was a (very strange) murder mystery in which Roger is the victim. The movie was originally listed as WHO SHOT ROGER RABBIT?, one of those phantom titles (like REVENGE OF THE JEDI) that will forever pass into film folklore. Actually, by this act, Disney added Roger to the list of characters including the Little Mermaid, Jimminy Cricket, the first two of the Three Little Pigs, Shere Khan, and (yes) Mad Madam Mim...all of whom survived in Disney movies, based on books in which they didn't... <> There's a very interesting story about that. Jane Yolen, who was one of the editors at Knopf when the book was being published, asked Dahl if there might not be some negative reaction to his original conception of the Ooompa-Loompas (African pygmies brought to live in Wonka's factory, and never allowed out of it) given the actual and vicious history of black slavery. Dahl was brusque ("Racism is America's problem!") and refused to allow any changes. A later reviewer in THE HORN BOOK criticized the book, mostly for that reason, and Dahl was still defensive...but, curiously enough, the Oompa-Loompas did become orange and green creatures, not only in the movie, but in later editions of the book. Sahutchi wrote: <> Rather ironic, when you consider how many of the adaptations of THE WIZARD OF OZ (virtually none, in fact) include any of the characters from THE LAND OF OZ or any of the later books. Could it be because the first had only one sequel and the latter had so many? <> What's that? A retelling of Grahame's THE WIND IN THE WILLOWS from another viewpoint? I know that's been done at least one other time, by Jan Needle in THE WILD WOOD (which makes Mr. Toad the villain and the weasels the heroes). I've read Grahame's book but neither of the rewrites, one of which led to extremely mixed emotions among people I like and respect. (The Digest's own David Hulan loved Needle's book; Diana Wynne Jones hated it.) It reminds me of the reaction in comic fandom to the 1986 rewrite of the Superman comics by John Byrne and others, which some people adored and others loathed. (I was in the latter category, and still am, though I've mellowed toward the writer and original editor, both long-gone from the series, involved.) <> Well, I read some pretty extensive Mother Goose collections as a young child, so I recognized all the rhymes except that one...I wonder if Baum, as sort of a prelude to FATHER GOOSE, made it up? On the whole it was a rather interesting idea (one done later in a book from around 1930 called TALES TOLD BY THE GANDER, another book I enjoyed as a child), though I wondered more at Baum's omission of a few of the most famous rhymes. (Such as "Simple Simon," "Jack and Jill," and "Tweedledum and Tweedledee." Possibly in the latter case he figured he couldn't possibly improve on Lewis Carroll, but that didn't prevent him from doing a "Humpty Dumpty" story.) Ozius wrote: <> Not to mention the logistical nightmare of Miss Gulch trying to ride her bicycle while carrying a confiscated *cow* on the back... Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> Sounds like Ruggedo was rehearsing for his *real* casting as a Disney villain in RETURN TO OZ... Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> Even if that's true--and I don't see any evidence of that--does that mean he has the right to keep him in eternal subjugation? It seems like a very non-Ozzy concept to me...a major point Baum made in PATCHWORK GIRL was that, even though Margolotte and Dr. Pipt had created the Patchwork Girl, they didn't have the right to keep her as a slave once she was alive. Eleanor wrote: <> Supposedly, Baum modeled the weather of Oz on that of the part of America he found most pleasant: Southern California. (Leaving out the earthquakes, except when (as in DOTWIZ) his characters were *in* Southern California. <> I suspect that's because a lot more people (especially women, but a lot of men as well) are inclined to dye their hair, use skin conditioners, and (definitely men) wear hairpieces to cover up bald heads. My grandmothers both had white hair before they were 60; my mother's would have been gray even earlier if she hadn't dyed it. Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 14:29:03 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Ozzy Digest, 3-17 "Shaggy" again: On second thought, your best bet for a good _Road_ is probably the BoW reprint. It's quite nice. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:29:52 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Ozzy digest line eater..... Dave L. Hardenbrook wrote: > Dang! The Line eater got me, too! As correctly surmised by David Hulan, and also commented upon by Aaron, that should have read: > > I see both Bob Spark and Craig took the "snood bait".**** I live in the > Orthodox Jewish community of **** > Baltimore (roughly 4000 families), where tradition dictates that [etc.] Eleanor, I've passed your request onto my son, that you'd like to hear more about the "magic stone". He said he'd write some more about it Sunday. Hope you can wait.... We are now into the part of SCARECROW (Chapter 15??), where the Scarecorow goes to King Crewl to make him surrender (BTW, I pointed out to my son that allowing an opponent the opportunity to surrender before attacking is exactly the way Jewish law says an army must act...). I have a question about SCARECROW, that occurred to me. How did the *spider* manage to cross the gulf???? Also, back to LOST PRINCESS for a second (don't you love the way I'm ignoring the BCF?), it was never explained how Ugu managed to physically remove the Boomk of Records from its locks. Any theories? And, don't worry, Robin. I plan to buy the Del Rey ROAD (it IS still in print, isn't it?) if I can't get an edition from the library. BTW, folks, if my wife ever brings it back from work, we got a catalog for store supplies that includes life-size cardboard cutouts of the characters from the MGM Wizard of Oz, if anyone is interested in ordering that sort of thing. Oh, yes, and there WILL soon be a MUCK that is based on children's fiction, that will have an Oz section. Details when I get them. (I know the head wiz. It's not open to the general public yet, but builders are welcome....) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky Oh, yes, and Bear, I do apologize for the line wrapping. It's an artifact of Netscape Mail. I generally tend to "oversize" the window on replies, so that quoted text doesn't wrap. Unfortunately, that usually means it's past column eighty. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:32:51 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Strange things: I wasn't going to mention this, but Dave asked us to report ALL strange happenings on the digest. There were some hex characters at the end of one of Aaron's posts, but on this mail system, they appeared in their standard ASCII format. Switcheroo: Clearly, this spell was not the only one available to Mombi. Otherwise, she would have had to find a marble statue to use to switch Tip's form with. Curiously, if Ozma (as Tip) had been transformed into a statue, would the real Tippetarius have reverted back to his form? Eleanor: I would definitely agree that the Wicked Witches (and others like them) would tend to want to restrict travel by their subjects, in order to have a greater amount of power over them. As far as I know, we have little if any hard info on where the WWE lived. Does anybody have any leads? I do not have access to my maps right now, but ISTR that the river in question flows south, forming a large chunk of the Winkie/Gilikin border, then skirts the Munchking country for a little while, before finally flowing into lake Quad near the city. I'll go on record as believing that there are some creatures that could only have been created by magic. Joel: The Royal Club of Oz is another Oz Club, similar to the IWOC, except that it is run by Books of Wonder and, if my sources are accurate, it is more oriented toward children that IWOC, although of course people of all ages are welcome in both clubs. John: It is stated a few times in the FF that dragons do indeed have actual fire inside them. Around and around... In some non-FF book, there is a circular river, but it is outside of Oz. Water, water everywhere, so let's all melt a witch: In the non-FF _oz and the Three Witches_, the Wizard is relating the details of his first visit to Mombi. He noticed that Mombi got very nervous when he produced a bottle of water for a magic trick, but he says he did not know the reason why. Otherwise, he said, he would have doused her. Scott: As a matter of policy, Chris and I have decided not to incldue short stories from magazines in the HACC, as there are simply too many of them to keep track of. As for _Murder_, it has been placed in 1956 for two reasons: Current HACC theory assumes that Dorothy was six at the time of _Wizard_, and was thus born in 1893. 1893 + 63 = 1956. Also, Jack Snow died in 1957, and Chris and I really don't like to place books in a time that occurs after they were written (barring time travel of course). When it comes to the slowed aging, that is a compromise that I came up with. The only two other solutions are either to squeeze the first six of the FF even more than they are now, or to age Dorothy into her teen years. The first is untenable, given the large number of non-FF titles that take place during that time. The second is offensive to a large number of Oz fans. The slowed aging is best that I could do. I don't like it, but I can't think of another alternative. I personally see nothing wrong with having Dorothy be 14 years old by the time of _Emerald City_, but that is sacrilege to many. Some reasons for this include evidence in _Lost Princess_ and _Giant Horse_. In _Lost Princess_, Baum states that Trot is a year younger than Dorothy and Betsy a year older. In _Giant Horse_, Trot says "me too", when Philador states that he has been 10 years old for quite a while. This could be taken to mean that Trot has also stopped her aging, but at a different age. To most people, though, this means that Trot is 10, Dorothy 11 and Betsy twelve. I get the feeling that Chris would like to lower these ages by three or even four years, but that is unrealistic. I myself would like to RAISE them by three to five years. This would allow me to unsqueeze the early Baum books and to drop the slowed aging theory, which I must admit is a little lame, even though I came up with it. Also, fear not! There were monks and churchbells mentioned in _Handy Mandy_. Nathan: We can assume that, by the time of _Royal Book_, Ozma had removed much of the unpleasantness of the Yellow Brick Road, whether natrual or magical barriers. In defense of _Murder_ (come to think of it, I could have said that better) _Murder_ remains on the HACC, as I have come up with an explanation. Tip himself was not really resurrected. When Ozma was turned into Tip, her fairy nature began to create a new personality, one completely unrelated to Tippetarius. This "spirit" lived through the re-transformation process at the end of "Land". Eventually (nearly six decades later), this spirit finally managed to break free of Ozma and assume its own existence. Note that this does NOT mean that there is a spirit of Amalea inside Tip, and so on for any other switcheroo spells that Mombi cast. This case is unique, brought on the the fairy/human nature of Ozma. Therefore, _Murder_ stays on the HACC and does not contradict _Disenchanted Princess_. 1939: It has been noted elsewhere that this was an absolute banner year for movies. --Tyler ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:43:26 -0500 (EST) From: JSTEADMAN@loki.berry.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-17-97 Fellow Digesters (sorry): This is the first time (and hopefully the last) that I will end up splitting my mailing in two pieces, something about which I've seen complaints of late. I know I've already posted in this issue, but here goes . . . John N. White: I found your discussion of a possible biological basis for fire-breathers fascinating. I must confess that personally, I had always seen fire-breathing as magic and nothing more. (An easy way out, perhaps.) Anyone (while I'm thinking about it): Do you think I ought to re-subscribe to the Bugle? When I found I had little time to read it a few years back I didn't continue my subscription, but now that I read the Digest, I'm starting to reconsider. I sorta miss the reviews and other articles. About Dorothy's whistle: I. too, was rather surprised at how it was conveniently produced, but on my first reading I took it in stride, and have ever since. David Hulan: Of course, Dorothy wasn't really suited to get past the crows, bees, and the lot, but quick wits and clever friends got her through. (I have long been a Dorothy fan; Sorry, Chris D.) Re: the witches of Oz: Out of curiosity, how is it that even though Mombi is, as Aaron said, more powerful than either the WWE or even the WWW, she never ended up ruling part of Oz? (Not, of course, that she didn't WANT to . . .) On the other hand, we could argue that Mombi really only had that one spell, the "switcheroo", and stretched it as far as it could go. I'm sure there's FF evidence for this somewhere. Gordon: Concerning "inadequacy dreams": my mother, who has a PhD, still has nightmares of being lost at college, not having done her work, and so on. So the horror goes on! Scott: Well, of course, Oz could have gotten electricity after "Thief" but before TIK-TOK. BTW, I rather like all the "signature verse" that many of you use and wish I had something in a similar vein. Alas, the doctor has enough trouble getting just a few drops of blood out of those that I do have (veins, that is), and I think putting poetry in them might make things even verse. --Jeremy M. Steadman, a.k.a. "The Germ" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:54:42 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz THE FLYING THIEF OF OZ was left off my version of the HACC because the Fuddles are entirely misrepresented in a most HI manner. Also, I had a question as to whether barnstormers were actually all that common back in those days. It DOES take place before Baum admitted to man's invention of the aeroplane (sic). There may have been other reasons, too. But it was a brief debate. I really DID want to include it, but ultimately couldn't. Was it Nate that was looking for the soundtrack of THE WIZ? Someone was. We found it on CD yesterday at Borders for $11.98. Very nice! I hadn't found it on CD anyplace online, though I sure looked! Okay, is that weird Ms. Gulch album on CD yet? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 00:47:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" 1) David, this would be the first time I ever heard non-Orthodox referred to as "observant" by anyone. Conceivably "observant" if stretched could be applied to the high end of the "Conservative" movement (the part that broke away), but this would be news to me. Also: I can conceive of a river that flows continuously downhill (in contradistinction to something Escheresquely impossible). However to pull it off would require some interesting magic to warp space... 2) Nathan, if I remember correctly, Pigasus was created through breeding. (I can't check quickly since I don't any of the relevant books. ): ) If I can hazard a guess, Jinnicky probably started his breeding program after noticing a magically induced mutation that gave a newborn piglet six limbs... 3) Dave, actually I do think that Mombi was the weakest of the Four Wicked Witches. In terms of intelligent use of resources, however, I think Bastinda was by far the worst of the Four Wicked Witches. I'd like to say more on this topic, but this will require some thought to compose something that does not reveal too much material from _Lurline's Machine_. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:39:33 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest - Seeing Things To: DAVEH47@delphi.com X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,8-9,13 There is clear evidence that the Nome King's minions were present in the MGM movie, just as in Disney's _Return To Oz_. In stills of the scene in which our heros take their first step into the Poppy Field, there are two large faces in the rocks beside the fabulous four. I have two pictures of the event in front of me -- one is on a mousepad and the other is pages 52-53 in BFI Film Classics' Salman Rushdie Wizard essay. The Rushdie picture is a fraction of a second later in the action. Unfortunately, one of the two pictures is reversed. The faces are in the rocks in the lower left corner on the mousepad and in the lower right corner in the Rushdie book picture. I have not had the opportunity to check my video of the movie yet. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:21:44 -0600 (CST) From: glassman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-17-97 To: DaveH47@delphi.com David Hulan: >Since I finally got my OZ COLLECTOR yesterday, I know that I can save $3 >on ROYAL BOOK by ordering it pre-pub, at the cost of $4.75 S&H. I think >I'll wait and pick it up at Borders. (If Borders doesn't carry it, then >I'm out the $3, but I can afford to wait. Besides, I may get to New York >or a convention where BoW is selling.) Unless you live in one of those rare, enlightened communities that do NOT charge sales tax on books, taking advantage of the pre-publication discount in the Oz Collector is probably about as cost effective as buying it in any store and you have the advantqage of getting a copy which you know hasn't been fingered by other persons in a bookstore. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:45:23 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-17-97 To: "Dave L. Hardenbrook" > I feel stupid, but what is "The Royal Club of Oz". I assume this is different > that IWOC? > > Joel > The Royal Club of Oz was created by Books of Wonder intended as as club for children rather than a rival for IWOC. Its correspondents include Oz characters. By the way, there are no stupid questions, only the ones that aren't asked. > I finally received the Fall 1996 Baum Bugle. It's my first Bugle since > Winter 1985! It was truly a pleasure to see so many familiar names in print. > David, I thought your review of _Wicked_ was right on target. I'm almost > done reading the book and must admit enjoying it. > > > -- Craig Noble Thank you> I take credit as I solicited and edited the reviews. BTW: I am always looking for reviewers. > Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman =F3=F1=E5=E9 =EC=E5= > =E0=F9 =EF=E1 =E4=EE=EC=F9 =EF=F8=E4=E0 > adelman@yu1.yu.edu > Also: what is the significance of the alphanumerical progression? > When I was teaching at Princeton a number of years ago, an alumnus wrote a > letter to the alumni magazine describing a recurrent nightmare he had in > which he was on his way to a final examination (at Princeton, of course) for > which he was totally unprepared--hadn't done any of the readings, hadn't > attended the lectures. > --Gordon Birrell I had the same nightmare at the University of Illinois. Now, when I get it, I am giving that examination in a class I never met. > > ====================================================================== > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 13:41:34 -0500 (EST) > From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-15-97 > > Looking over older digests, I saw Aaron Solomon's query on "The Flying > Thief of Oz" by Jon L. Breen. This definitely belongs on the HACC. It > is set between DOTWIZ and EC. I cannot tell whether it is before or > after ROAD, but there is a Flutterbugdet in it. The title character is > The Magnificent Mennen (Hey, do you think this is wher Nick De Noia got > the idea for _the magnificent major_?). The only thing in it the least bit > contradictory is that it is stated that there is no electricity in Oz, > which we know is not the case. I can't remember if it is Mennen or the > Wizard who says otherwise, but remember TIK-TOK and the fact that Oz had > a presumably electric light in the ceiling of his chamber. Was there a Flutterbudget? I distinctly remember a Fuddlecumjig, but there might have been both. > About my novel, does anyone (namely, the judges) think a prayer chapel is > too unOzzy for a contest novel? It's inclusion is brief but essential. > Besides, judging from what I know about Baum's religious beliefs, he > would have like the church I attend. I realize Baum only mentions a > church in TWWoO, but could something like this really disqualify it under > that rule? > Scott Whatever Baum's personal religious beliefs were, they did not impinge on his stories. I would consider *religiousity* an impediment to a contest novel because it is foreign to the spirit of Baum's Oz. A prayer chapel could invite speculations. > Doug: > The name "Stalacta" sounds similar to Stalac, which was the name of a > Prince or Princess in "Into the Cave," a chapter that Jack Snow > originally intended to put into _Shaggy Man_. I have never read this > chapter, but I have read of it. > It was printed in the BUGLE some years ago. > > Disney owned the rights to RINKATINK? I didn't know that! Lucky the > company didn't decide to do its worst to it... > Disney ownied the rights to all of the post-Wizard Baum Oz books. > An infinite library? Wow! I'd love to be there, that's for sure! > I don't know, think of the difficulty of finding anything. It would require an infinite catalogue. > > --Jeremy Steadman > Stevew T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:03:06 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz To: 'Dave Hardenbrook' Notice: For those of you who go to my web page expecting to see the insightful reviews of "A Viking in Oz" by Aaron Adelman and myself, you won't. That particular page was not sent to CompuServe. I forgot to add it to the list of pages. All other reviews are there, however, including a review of "Braided Man" by Aaron. As long as I am at it, I may as well take this time to clarify and expound on my policy of accepting reviews of BEOO books. I will accept any book that is or has been published by BEOO or offered by BEOO. You can Find a list of these by going to the BEOO home page. http://members.aol.com/OzBucket/webpage/home.htm Also, feel free to review any book that is out of print. At first, I was considering deleting all Reviews of out-of-print books, but I figured that they were still out there for people to Acquire by other means and historical reviews give people a better sense of the total Buckethead experience. Remember, I do accept negative reviews, but I ask that you be objective in your writing. After all, there are about 60 titles eligible for review and it is not realistic to expect that Everybody will love every one of them. As for rating books on a scale, I ask that you either use the system that I have provided or Simply do not rate them at all. I do this in the name of consistency. To date, only four people have sent in reviews. I'd like to get a broader sense of opinion, So anybody out there is more than welcome to send in a review of any BEOO or BEOO-offered title. I like deep senses too, so the people who have already sent in some Are always welcome to send in more. --Tyler Jones http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tylerjones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:21:44 -0500 (EST) From: Ozgrif@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Thanks for adding me to The Ozzy Digest, I can already see that your newsletter and it's Oz fans will be a welcome addition to all of the Oz research I've been doing since I've started to write my comic book OZ just a couple of years ago. E-mails from Danny and Scott were of great help. I did notice comments about a number of concerns about our story's violence. I don't mean to offend anyone, all I'm trying to is tell some classic adventure stories about good and evil set in the Oz mythos. I know my book isn't for everyone but that's okay. A few people have asked me about the book's plot and how many OZ comics are out there that I've worked on, so not to give too much away. I'll try... Our adventures in OZ are much more of the high adventure/heroism types of stories. Our tale starts out with three twenty-somethings and their dog being transported back to the land of Oz under mysterious circumstances. However, Oz is in deep trouble because the Nome King has taken over the land and has cast a spell on the Scarecrow, Lion, and Tinman making them Evil Kings ruling over Munchkin Country, Quadling Country, and Winkie Country. Only Gilkin Country is a free land protected by the Freedom Fighters of Oz ( Tik Tok, Jin Jur, Jack, Scraps, Sawhorse, Wogglebug, and a some cast of other rebels lead by Amber Ombi { Ombi Ambi's nephew }. The Nome King's rule has been in effect for ten years and many things have changed from what it was ( the country side is radically different and magic is off, with characters aging and mutating and some even dying , yes, the Nome King influence has been devastating, even the Good Witches were unable to stop him with his new found magics ). The first fifteen stories deal with our characters interchanging with the other Oz characters, how things have been altered since under the Nome King's rule, and the liberation of Oz itself. The next set of ten issues deal with the Wickedest Witch ( combination of both the East and West Wicked Witches ). And Goblins { she's gone where the goblins go...). Ozma's attempt to return everything back to normal. Life after the Reign of the Nome King. So far we have published the following: OZ: #1-19 OZ Specials: Lion #1; Scarecrow #1; Tinman #1; Freedom Fighters #1; and OZ #0 Romance in Rags #1-3 (dealing with the evil Scarecrow and Scraps ) Graphic Novel: Mayhem in Munchkin Land ( collecting Issues #1-5) Graphic Novel: Gathering of Heroes ( collecting issue #6-10 ) Any future comments (good or bad), I'm always eager to respond to. Thaks Again and keep up the great newsletter always a great read. ~~~ Ralph Griffith ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 97 10:56:05 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things I have to admit that my anxiety is increasing on the silence from nearly everyone on the Digest who is on Compuserve...Are you posting to the Digest? Are you *receiving* the Digest?? Hello??? Hello?????????? Tyler wrote: >In the non-FF _oz and the Three Witches_, the Wizard is relating the details >of his first visit to Mombi. He noticed that Mombi got very nervous when >he produced a bottle of water for a magic trick, but he says he did not >know the reason why. Otherwise, he said, he would have doused her. I wish I could find this book...It seems that would clear up a lot for me that is murky in my mind about early Oz History... Jeremy wrote: >Out of curiosity, how is it that even though Mombi is, as Aaron said, >more powerful than either the WWE or even the WWW, she never ended up >ruling part of Oz? (Not, of course, that she didn't WANT to . . .) Unless I'm *really* murky about early Oz History, Mombi *did* rule Gillikin Country until Locasta (a.k.a. The Good Witch of the North) defeated her. Of course this leads to the question of why didn't Locasta then conquer the other two Wicked Witches if they were less powerful than Mombi? I go along with Aaron's view that Mombi *was* the weakest, but that she just made more intellegent use of resources. Also, my additonal MOPPET is that Mombi had a "helper" who ultimately overpowered and banished Locasta for her, after which Mombi substituted Tattypoo (who then went on to defeat Mombi as well!). But I cannot reveal much more without invoking major spoilers for _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_... For those of you with USENET access, visit alt.fan.rumpole to see my proposal for "Rumpole in Oz" -- I posted it there in the outside chance that someone there might tell me how I can get Mortimer's permission to write it... :) ( You might have to wait a day or two though, given the delays in postings actually showing up in newsgroups...That's one of the reasons I prefer we have an Ozzy *Digest*... :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 19, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:07:36 -0600 (CST) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (R. M. Atticus Gannaway) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 TYLER JONES: i'm pretty close to san antonio, living in austin (a little over an hour north). what that has to do with geozify, i'm not sure. i was just there last week but didn't see any quadlings or anything. atticus * * * "Do I just think I'm ultra-chic for living in a place without cuspidors, where I can wear all black without getting lynched?" from "Concerning Rural Highways" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:22:54 -0500 (EST) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: The Wicked Witches of Oz Regarding the relative power of witches, it may very well be of the three main wicked witches, Mombi is the most powerful. However, if this is so, then she was probably relying mostly on her maic, whereas Bastinda and Gingemma were probably relying on other things as well to stay in power, such as intimidation, posturing, deception, bluffing, and politicking. Obviously one didn't need real magical powers to establish a power base or the Wizard would have gotten nowhere. It's also possible that people's abilities could have changed, so by the time Dorothy came along, Bastinda may have really been as Farmer described her, her memories becoming uncertain, which in turn would have severely limited her ability to perform magic effectively; thus, even if she once wa a powerful witch, by the end she might have been ruling by bluff and fear alone without much in the real magical power. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:14:19 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 David Hulan: About Mary Poppins: admittedly, I remember the movie better than the book at this point; however, when I first saw the movie, my distinct impression was that I prefered the book. Re Mombi and the WWE/WWW: While I still find it hard to believe that Mombi was superior to either of the other two, I think she had more than just the switcheroo spell at her disposal. Otherwise, the other two witches (power-hungry as they all are) would have disposed of her long ago. Oz well that ends well, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:48:48 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest David: In _Disenchanted Princess_, Zim thinks that Mombi used long-distance magic to transform Tip, but that the boy needed to be wearing a device on which the witch could "home in." The Scarecrow and his companions in _Land_ were not wearing such devices. Rich: In _Lost King_, it is actually Dorothy, not Mombi, who suggests the execution of Mombi. The Queen is clearly not the only one who is feeling rather mean, and, as far as I know, Mombi never did anything to Dorothy. Shaggy: Ugu might have had some spell that helped him to obtain the Great Book of Records. Tyler: In _Tin Woodman_, Nick Chopper and his companions visit the WWE's old house. It stands in the same forest in which Nick was discovered in _Wizard_. Jeremy: Well, the Bugle is more expensive now than it was in past years, but it is probably worth getting. You said that you did not have time to read all of the articles, but you don't have to read all of them at once. Evidence seems to suggest that Mombi did rule at least part of the Gillikin Country. This probably did not include Kimbaloo, since no one in this Kingdom recognized their cook as the Wicked Witch of the North. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:31:21 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Oz and the three witches: Aaron ILLed this book once. Maybe he can help you do the same. Mike: The only thing I can think of is that the spider was carried across on a gust of wind that also bouyed her so that the strands of web were straight instead of angling down. As for _Lost Princess_, that is a good question. In chapter 2, it says that the book is so heavy that even three men could barely lift it. The Zosozo can explain that, though. Also in chapter 2, Baum says that the chains had been cut with some sharp insturment, so we can assume that Ugu had some unnamed magical cutting tool that he used. I don't imagine that ordinary scissors could have done the job :-) cogito ergo sum: I suppose that magically created beings, once they achieve consciousness, should be considered free agents. It is possible that the majority of his slaves, though, only mimic life and are not alive in the sense that the Scarecrow is. Jeremy: On one hand, it appears that Mombi may have ruled a portion of the Gilikin country, what Aaron would call core Gillikinland. However, some MOPPeTs have theorized that after Mombi battled the GWN, she pretended to lose, and retreated into anonymity in order to plot the takeover of the entire Land of Oz. In other words, she didn't bother to rule one quadrant, since she had her eyes on the prize (the whole enchilada). In _Lost King_, Mombi had access to all sorts of magical implements, although she could not "do" magic herself any longer. This suggests that in her day, she could do quite a number of things above and beyond the one switcheroo spell. Perhaps an ordinary transformation would not work on Ozma, since she is a fairy. I should say an ordinary transformation into another human shape, since she was transformed without any switcheroo tricks in both _Ozma_ and _Lost Princess_. As Dave said, more of this may be revealed in his book. FYI, I have received the digest at CompuServe for the past two days, so it looks like any problems have cleared up (for now). --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:41:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Abilities of Bastinda and Mombi (Ozzy Digest) 1) David, I know that just because Bastinda didn't do something doesn't mean she couldn't do something, but some of the stuff she didn't do would have been to her advantage to do if she could. a) Transformations: she could have transformed Dorothy and co. into beings better suited for hard work in the--what DID Bastinda make the Winkies do anyway? b) Illusions (other than invisibility): since she definitely did not want people who could not work, Bastinda could have created the appearance of hideous monsters to scare Dorothy and co. off, which could have only added to the reputation barrier which (rightly) depicted her as someone to keep as far away from as possible. c) Long-distance magic (we need a cool technical term for this; how about telethaumaturgy?): Do anything unpleasant to Dorothy and co. from in the comfort of her own castle. d) Transportation: Transport 1,000 kg of rocks to 1 m above the heads of Dorothy and co.. e) Animation: Make 1,000 kg of rocks able to move and set them moving towards Dorothy and co.. f) Vivification: (The Urfin Jus solution:) Bring some giant wooden soldiers to life and tell them to finish off Dorothy and co.. Given this significant list of things Bastinda could have done but didn't do, I suspect that either a) she was rather stupid or b) she couldn't do them. 2) Michael, maybe Ugu was inspired by "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" and brought a pair of bolt-cutters with him. (: 3) Tyler, it has been established that breaking a switcheroo transformation for one subject automatically breaks it for the other subject. As (so far as I remember) there is nothing that indicates that a transformed subject cannot be transformed without removing the original transformation, I would expect that one in your hypothetical case, Amelia/Dunny would remain Amelia while Tippetarius/Ozma became a statue.=20 If anything went wrong, given that according to Wumbo the Wonder Worker (fortunately I have a copy of _The Gnome King of Oz_ right here) "two magic charms cannot work at the same time", Tippetarius/Ozma might not become a statue. Since Mombi was no idiot, I presume that either a) she intended to remove the first transformation before changing Tippetarius/Ozma into a statue, or b) Wumbo's rule means that two spells cannot work on exactly the same thing at the same time, but they may work on slightly different things at the same time. Hence the Wicked Witch of the North might have been able to effect the transformation of Tippetarius into a statue by specifying a slightly smaller or larger subset of Ozma/Tippetarius than she did in the original spell, such as including or excluding an article of clothing. n) Jeremy, I repeat, I never said that Mombi was more powerful than Gingemma or Bastinda! I said that she was more intelligent about how she used magic than Bastinda! My guess for why she didn't remain in power in Gillikinland is that when Mombi squared off in battle against Locasta, she realised that sooner or later she was going to lose. By surrendering and acknowledging Locasta (who I assume had a different personal code of behavior than Glinda) as her superior, she was able to walk away with everything intact except her claim to being ruler of the Gillikins. She therfore ended up with considerable power in _Land_. (Note: I have other reasons to suspect that Mombi surrendered to Locasta, but they cannot currently be shared here. Sorry.) Bastinda, on the other hand, I speculate, had to deal with constant rebellions and an ongoing war with Olma (southern Winkieland). As such, her resources were constantly being drained, and on top of that, she was not very efficient. Think about it: why did she send 40 wolves against Dorothy and co.? Why did she need 40 wolves to kill a human, a dog, a two animated dummies, and a lion? Would 10 or 20 been too few? Consider the strategy the wolves used as well: the first attacked and got killed, the second attacked and got killed, the third attacked and got killed, and so on until all the wolves were killed. Why didn't they attack two or more at a time? And this strategy was clearly not limited to the wolves; the crows attacked one at a time as well. This would suggest that Bastinda was training her minions to use a single strategy inflexibly, to the point of not attempting something else even when it was apparent the strategy was failing miserably. I therefore deduce that Bastinda had survived so long because of luck and brute force (as opposed to cunning), and brute force is a fantastic way to use up resources. As such, I stand by my claim that by _Wizard_ Bastinda, though starting out as rather formidable, had been reduced to a small fraction of her former power. As for how powerful Gingemma was, the only indication I can remember from the FF is that Locasta in _Wizard_ claims that Gingemma was more powerful that she was. As such, by the law of transitivity (a > b and b > c : > a = > c), Gingemma must have been more powerful than Mombi. QED. Just how powerful she was is as far as I know pure speculation. n + 1) Stephen, the seeming garbage in my signature, if viewed in ISO 8859-8 without mangling, is actually my Hebrew name. n + 2) Ralph, if I may offer a unique criticism based purely on descriptions of your comic, the idea of a spell which turns people evil seems illogical. For one to be evil, one must have the choice and understanding of what constitute good and evil. A tiger in our world, for example, while it has choice, has no understanding of good and evil, and thus while it may eat humans, since it has no conception that eating humans is evil, cannot properly be considered evil. A spell which makes someone evil of neccessity impinges on the subject's choice of whether to be good and evil. As to be evil one must be do evil out of free choice, one may not be compelled to be evil. As such, a spell which makes someone evil would appear to be impossible. QED. n + 3) Dave, I once purchased (and subsequently returned) a copy of _Oz and the Three Witches_ from Books of Wonder. If you want, I can pick up a copy the next time I'm there, which should be about 3 weeks. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 03:08:04 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 Shaggy: > I have a question about SCARECROW, that occurred to me. How did the *spider* manage to cross the gulf????< Perhaps the wind swung it across once it spun its line long enough. Or it had a little long-distance help from Glinda. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 03:08:55 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 >On the other hand, we could argue that Mombi really only had that one spell, the "switcheroo", and stretched it as far as it could go. I'm sure there's FF evidence for this somewhere.< Baum not only says Mombi knows this spell, he states that it is a spell with which Mombi "is familiar." Implying she used this one a lot! :-) :-) If Mombi HAD turned Ozma/Tip into a marble statue, likely Tip would have remained Amalea permanently. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:49:21 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 Dave Hulan, responding to Aaron: > It's quite possible, for instance, that she [the WWW] could do > transformations as well as Mombi; she just didn't have > occasion to. Which is exactly what she had done in the (admittedly non-FF) "Ice King of Oz", having transformed Flicker Robin: > > "Shaggy": One caveat on _Road_: it mentions a number of Baum non-Oz > characters at the birthday party. Baruch won't know these characters, but > you can just tell him their books will be something to look forward to. I know it didn't bother me either, when I first read it around age 16. I just assumed these were apocryphal characters (especially stuff like Santa Claus). Tyler and Steve, as I'm sure Aaron will tell you (since he stepped on MY answer about snoods ;-) ), those hex characters are the Hebrew font characters spelling out his name in Hebrew (Aharon Shlomo ben Shaul Yosef) BTW, Aaron, I'm afraid that I may have to take David's side here. Having grown up in a Conservative home which was always kosher, and being Shomer Mitzvot, I always told folks who asked whether I was Orthodox, "No, I am *observant*" I would not necessarily answer the same way today, but I think you see my point? (my wife, BTW, is still not sure about David's assertion that "*most* American Jews" would consider them different (emphasis hers)). Of course, this is not the proper forum for these discusssions. On Steve's assertion that an infinite library would require an infinite index, I'd say "or just a /really/ good search engine algorithm" :-) Great! Now Ralph G. is infected with "line swoop!" :-( --Mike "Shaggy (getting to be loquacious) Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:12:01 -0500 (EST) From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 3-18-97 Craig: Re: the _Road to Oz_ endpapers, my "white" edition has different endpapers, but I did see what you mean in the BoW edition. Also, I think your impressions of _Wicked_ are shared by many of us who have read it. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:39:23 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Doug Parker: Found-poetry in the short lines is a pleasant consideration, but ease of legibility is nice. Yeah, maybe Baum was partly a lot of Gnome, now that you mention it. // "Gnome Matters" is the second of the "Dunkiton" pamphlets. They're $1.50 each, or $/3, and the five so far are one on RPT in the "Public Ledger," the Gnome one, one on mermaids, and a two-part reprint of the Neill-illustrated "Real Robin Hood" (from "Public Ledger" in 1904 -- style of the drawings, not surprisingly, is similar to the style of his drawings in "Land of Oz," although with much more use of silhouette). My address is 2809 Drew Ave S, Minneapolis MN 55416. Rich Morrissey: Peter Glassman may answer for himself on this, but I suspect that in saying that the illos to "Dot and Tot," "Yew," and "Key" weren't attractive enough to use, what he meant was that they weren't attractive enough if reproduced in b&w, and the probable sales figures made reproducing them in color unfeasible. I wonder, at some point, once he's sold pretty much what he expects to sell on the texts, and if he gets expressions of interest from people, if Books of Wonder might be interested in publishing some small pamphlets of art only (and in color). There are probably too many illos in them to make it feasible to do pamphlets of all the art in them, but a pamphlet each of the color plates from "Yew" and from "Key" (ignoring the line illos, or most of them), and one of a sampling of the illos from "Dot and Tot" might make very handsome art-publications. The questions, I suppose, would be if the costs could be kept reasonable, and how many people are there who would buy such pamphlets for themselves or as gifts. (For instance, in my own case, I have copies of the books in the original editions, so suspect I wouldn't buy the pamphlets. I haven't bought the reprinted versions as gifts, because I don't think the new illos are really attractive enough to make them gifts that I want to give. I don't know that I would want to give pamphlets of the original art alone as gifts, either, but there must surely be a fairly large number of collectors who don't have the original editions and who would want to buy such pamphlets, if they got the opportunity.) Comments on Jinnicky's slaves: For most of Jinnicky's people, it looks to me as if "slaves" is equivalent to "subjects" and doesn't indicate any real subjection for them any more than for the "subjects" in a monarchy -- in "Silver Princess," the "slaves" who work in the mines are "freed" by Gludwig, but glad to go back to the mines at the end, because Jinnicky pays higher wages than Gludwig did (and Gludwig forced them to be his soldiers, which isn't much of an improvement). Ginger is the one "slave" who really does seem to be a slave, as he doesn't have any choice about answering the dinner bell. Rich Morrissey's comparison to the creation of the Patchwork Girl seems an apt one. I wonder if anyone would like to write a story about how Ginger decided he wanted freedom, and how he and Jinnicky worked it out so that he got it. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 97 11:23:55 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things IIRC, in _Charlotte's Web_, Charlotte's 514 offspring (save the three "runts") depart the barn in the same way Charlotte told Wilber her aunt(?) had done -- by releasing some "web-thread" ( I don't know the technical term for it :) ) and using it as a "sail" to take to the air...I've heard of spiders that actually do this. Perhaps this is how the Ozzy spider in question did it... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 20, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 15:40:20 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Oz nazis? Aaron assserts that one may not be compelled to do evil, since "evil" implies free will. I think we are talking here (NOT having read the comic, though) about actions, not motivations. Someone who does something that society would consider evil, if that person were free-willed. I wonder what such a spell would do to the Talmudic dictum that "there is no agency for sin" (i.e., you cannot plead the "I was just following orders" defense). --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 16:00:25 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Aaron: I don't really know the details of Wumbo's rule about two enchantments working simultaneously. I do know that Sir Hokus, who was already under the Sultan's spell, was turned into a bird by Wish Way. I suppose that Wumbo's rule doesn't pertain equally to all enchantments. I might like a copy of _Oz and the Three Witches_, if you can obtain a copy, and the price is not too high. Ruth: You had some interesting thoughts on Ginger. An interesting observation about this slave is that he can converse freely while in Jinnicky's castle, but he can only silently bring trays when summoned to other places. Ginger is an odd entity, who probably owes his existence to Jinnicky, but that does not mean that he should not be free if wants to be. After all, most people don't have to serve their parents for all eternity. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 18:42:17 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-19-97 Ruth: You wrote, "I wonder, at some point, once he's [Peter Glassman] sold pretty much what he expects to sell on the texts, and if he gets expressions of interest from people, if Books of Wonder might be interested in publishing some small pamphlets of art only (and in color)." Funny you thought that -- I was wondering just this morning if there would be a market for a single volume containing reproductions of all the Oz color plates. Copies of the pictorial labels would serve as dividers, and there would be an essay on Neill and Denslow's work. Now that would be a handsome book! -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:05:42 -0600 (CST) From: glassman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-19-97 Ruth Berman: >Rich Morrissey: Peter Glassman may answer for himself on this, but I >suspect that in saying that the illos to "Dot and Tot," "Yew," and "Key" >weren't attractive enough to use, what he meant was that they weren't >attractive enough if reproduced in b&w, and the probable sales figures >made reproducing them in color unfeasible. Thank you, Ruth. Tthat is exactly what I was trying to communicate. Unfortunately, the only time I get to read and relpy to digests is late at night (like so many others), so sometimes I'm not at my most lucid. >I wonder, at some point, once he's sold pretty much what he expects to sell >on the texts, and if he gets expressions of interest from people, if Books of >Wonder might be interested in publishing some small pamphlets of art only (and >in color). There are probably too many illos in them to make it feasible to >do pamphlets of all the art in them, but a pamphlet each of the color plates >from "Yew" and from "Key" (ignoring the line illos, or most of them), and one >of a sampling of the illos from "Dot and Tot" might make very handsome art- >publications. The questions, I suppose, would be if the costs could be kept >reasonable, and how many people are there second by Baum, and then somewhat distantly by Neill. Only the most dedicated fans (like those here on the digest) are interested in the other Baum artists (except for Maxfield Parrish, of course). - Peter Glassman who would buy such pamphlets for themselves or as gifts. (For instance, in my own case, I have copies of the books in the original editions, so suspect I wouldn't buy the pamphlets. I haven't bought the reprinted versions as gifts, because I don't think the new illos are really attractive enough to make them gifts that I want to give. I don't know that I would want to give pamphlets of the original art alone as gifts, either, but there must surely be a fairly large number of collectors who don't have the original editions and who would want to buy such pamphlets, if they got the opportunity.) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:24:24 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Mombi and Dorothy: The situation in _Lost King_ is interesting. According to RPT, Mombi immediately recognized Dorothy, although it is unlikely that they have ever met. IMHO, Mombi would have avoided the Emerald City after _Land_. In all likelihood, though, Mombi may have secretly spied on the Emerald City over the years and has probbaly glimpsed Dorothy a few times. ALso, there may be an adventure concerning Dorothy and Mombi that we have never heard about... Use of magic: The failure to use magic to its full potential is a chronic one in the series. In the case of the Wicked Witches, we can assume that using magic consumed a great deal of energy and that they could not simply do absolutely anything they wanted to do continuously. evil: Aaron's comments sound a lot like the discussions I used to have with D&D players concerning a _Helm of opposite alignment_. IMHO, a spell cannot truly make someone evil, although it can alter their thought patterns enough to make them perform evil actions. In a way, they would be spiritually sick, and once cured, they would no longer be evil. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:30:50 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 Robin: _The Quiet Man_ is one of my favorite movies of all time, too. And I've read the short story (or novelette), though I didn't think the movie followed it all that closely. I'm something of a Maurice Walsh fan, and I felt that the movie took at least as much from his novel _The Road to Nowhere_ as it did from the novelette "The Quiet Man". (For one thing, John Wayne bore no physical resemblance whatever to the description of Paddy Bawn Enright in the story. And didn't use his name, either.) (If you'd like to talk about story vs. movie this summer I'll make it a point to reread the story and review the movie before Ozmopolitan, since I haven't done the former in 15 years or so or the latter in about 3.) Craig: Yeah, the ending of WICKED was the weakest part, I thought. Incidentally, did you notice that Maguire had the sun rising in the west and setting in the east? Rich: That's Donald Abbott, not Robert Abbott, that reillustrated DOT AND TOT for BoW. It's an exaggeration to say that I "loved" Jan Needle's THE WILD WOOD - but I thought it was quite amusing and thoroughly enjoyed it. >Nathan DeHoff wrote: ><most likely candidate for this would be Ginger, who was presumably a creation >of the Jinn.>> > Even if that's true--and I don't see any evidence of that--does that mean >he has the right to keep him in eternal subjugation? It seems like a very >non-Ozzy concept to me...a major point Baum made in PATCHWORK GIRL was that, >even though Margolotte and Dr. Pipt had created the Patchwork Girl, they >didn't have the right to keep her as a slave once she was alive. But Jinnicky is a much more clever magician than Dr. Pipt, and he presumably didn't have Ojo messing around with things when he did the spell to create Ginger. (I just noticed that that's a trivia bit - two Oz characters whose names are pronounced the same but spelled differently.) So if he included a yearning to serve as part of Ginger's magically-created personality, Ginger would surely be not only content but eager to be his slave. Certainly Ginger seems completely devoted to Jinnicky in SILVER PRINCESS. Actually, in DOTWIZ Dorothy was probably in Northern California, at least as it's commonly considered. (Southern California is usually considered to stop at the Tehachapis, although that's only about the southern quarter of the state.) The general descriptions sound to me like she's either in the Salinas Valley or the Central Valley around Fresno. Shaggy: Spiders are very light, and given a slight breeze in the right direction can waft across rather large open spaces. I imagine that's how the one that helped the Scarecrow did it. (There's a similar case in MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO, IIRC.) Ugu was a powerful magic-worker even before he stole most of the rest of the magic in Oz. Probably he had a spell that would release the chains binding the Book of Records to the floor. I'm assuming that a MUCK is some sort of on-line group, but that's a new term to me. Translation? Tyler: We know that the WWE lived fairly near to Ku-Klip, since the travelers in TW go from her house to Ku-Klip's in some relatively small fraction of a day. (Besides, it apparently lies between Nick Chopper's cottage and Ku-Klip's, and Nick was able to make his way to Ku-Klip's after losing a leg without too much difficulty.) I think we have better evidence as to the location of the WWE's home than we do of the WWW's or the GWN's. Actually, there's a circular river in DOT AND TOT. But it has to work by magic. I don't consider it "sacrilege" to have Dorothy be 14 by the time of EMERALD CITY, but it doesn't seem very consistent with the way she's protrayed in that book. She neither talks nor acts like a teen-ager. I think the "generally accepted" ages of 10 for Trot and 11 for Dorothy seem about right from their speech and actions (once they've settled in Oz). Betsy doesn't really seem 12 to me - on the occasions when she's characterized at all she seems younger rather than older than Dorothy - but kids vary in maturity and I can live with her being 12. (And Button-Bright is 8 or 9, probably the latter.) Jeremy: I think any serious Oz fan (and you're clearly one) should belong to the IWOC and read the BUGLE. FWIW. Speaking of the whistle reminds me - how would the Tin Woodman blow it in LAND? He doesn't have any lungs. (Of course, there's the related question of how the TW and Scarecrow took a course of Professor Woggle-bug's education pills in LOST PRINCESS.) Aaron: I was undoubtedly out of line when I said "most American Jews" don't equate Orthodox with "observant", but I've known quite a few Conservative Jews in California who considered themselves observant even though they didn't follow every precept of the Shulhan Aruch (including married women covering their hair). In WISHING HORSE Bitty Bit says that Pigasus is a "creation" of the Red Djinn - I suppose that term might be stretched to an animal that was bred with some magical assistance, but it sounds to me more like Jinnicky formed him from inanimate matter, if not from nothing. Peter G.: No, we have sales tax on books in Illinois. But Borders gives a 10% discount on all hardcover books, which more than compensates for the 6.25% sales tax. Actually, it's about a wash. Maybe I'll order it. It's not as if $2 or so one way or the other is going to break the family budget. Dave: I know I got "Oz and the Three Witches" through the IWOC; have you checked to see if they're still offering it? If it's OP I could xerox a copy for you unless someone thinks that Pendexter would object. (It's not all that long.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:33:59 -0500 (EST) From: Ozgrif@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest All right Aaron, good point on the spell of Evil, I hear what you are saying. I guess in my haste to catch folks up I wasn't telling you exactly what transpired. Actually, both the Nome King and Mombi joined forces and conjures up three amulets of control which are places around the heads of Scarecrow, Lion, Tinman, and Dorothy. Only Dorothy ( maybe because she's from Earth, maybe not...) can not carry out the evil plans of Mombi and the Nome King, she remains in a zombie like trance only able to carry out small commands. The amulet acts as a way to influence the Big Three ( for lack of a better term ) into doing whatever Nome King wishes. So I guess it's no so much as a spell of evil, more like an amulet of control. ( does that sound more possible...? ). Maybe not, but thanks for putting so much thought into my plot. That's why I feel I'm going to like this newsletter so much. Oh no!!! I'm infected with "line swoop!" !!! Shaggster does that mean I'm gonna die! Hey I'm new at this. What can I say? Are the names that you refer to for the WWW & WWE and GWN in public domain? And where can I find out more about how each country in Oz is governed, without infringing on anybody's rights? I would like to stay as close to the mythos as possible although I can't resist putting in some original characters such as Ambi Ombi's nephew and the new King of the Winged Monkeys. I will say the Mombi in our comic is a powerful witch, however she picks her moments to unleash that power as to not draw to much attention. Thanks for hearing me out...and any other comments are welcome. -- Ralph Griffith ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:53:25 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Play of Wizard of Oz Andrea, I know there are a number of scripts that have been produced over the = years, but I'm not sure which are available or where. I'm forwarding = your question to the Ozzy Digest discussion group, as several of the = participants should be able to help you out. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: Michael Lawson [SMTP:mlawson@pipeline.com] Sent: Friday, March 14, 1997 6:17 PM Subject: Play of Wizard of Oz I am a fourth grade teacher. I am looking for a script for a play of = the Wizard of Oz that my fourth graders could do for our spring program. If = you could be of any assistance, I would greatly appreciate it. =20 Thank you, Andrea Lawson ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:23:10 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-19-97 Jeremy: Mombi certainly had more than the switcheroo spell working for her. She did all those illusions in LAND, plus she apparently knew some chemical magic as well (like the potion to turn Tip into a marble statue - of course, we don't know if that would have worked, but it's likely). Nathan: It's true that Dorothy suggests liquidating Mombi, but that's only after both the Hungry Tiger and Scraps had proposed equally terminal punishments. It seems apparent that everyone was in favor of eliminating the old witch, even though she was relatively harmless at that point. I don't think it would take more than two or three times as long to read a BUGLE as it does to read an Ozzy Digest, and most of us manage to read over a hundred of those within each BUGLE period - and respond to many of them as well. Aaron: As I said previously, Bastinda doesn't seem to have had the power to harm Dorothy because of the GWN's protective kiss. This would include transformations. Anyhow, I agree that Bastinda didn't have all the magical powers that anyone has ever heard of. But she might well have had all the magical powers that Mombi ever showed, in addition to the ones she used herself. The only one that might have been useful and that she didn't use was the illusion spell Mombi used to confuse Tip's party. Possibly she lacked that one; possibly the GWN's kiss would have prevented it from working on Dorothy, in which case she could tell her friends that the illusions were illusions. (Actually, that would have been a good bit for Baum to have put into WIZARD - the Tin Woodman vanquishes the wolves, the Scarecrow the crows, the two of them together the bees, and the Lion the Winkies. It would have been more symmetrical if Dorothy had vanquished the illusions; as it is, she does nothing constructive until she gets to the witch's castle.) But I'll agree that Bastinda doesn't seem to be too intelligent. I don't think petrification should be considered the same thing as transformation. It happens a number of times in the FF, and it doesn't seem to be something that the Magic Belt - which is a powerful transformation device - can remedy. Your argument that a spell could not force a person to be evil seems valid to me. However, a spell can force a person to do evil, and from the standpoint of those who are ruled by such a person, the effect is the same. Theologically "evil" may have a narrower meaning, but in common usage "evil" is frequently applied to inanimate causes - alcohol, drugs, earthquakes, flood, fire, or famine, to mention a few. Dave: I'm surprised you haven't run into spiders traveling via "web-sail"; at certain times of the year I'd have to wipe off web several times any time I walked outside my house in Santa Ana around dusk. These are, of course, tiny baby spiders; big spiders can't travel that way. But we don't know how big the spider who helped the Scarecrow was. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 97 11:51:43 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things In regard to the sun rising in the west and setting in the east (as it apparently does in _Wicked_), is it possible that the planet Nonestica rotates in retrograde, leading to this phenomenon in the "real" Oz, and possibly to the confusion regarding the Oz map... I have two questions regarding the Oz Book Contest: 1) Does the deadline of March 31 mean the manuscript must be *postmarked* March 31, or soes it have to actually be in IWOC's mailbox on the 31st? 2) The Contest Rules expressly forbid references to the movie, including, "There's No Place Like". But this is not a movie reference but a song that the movie quotes. So couldn't Dorothy say something like, "There's no place like home, and my home is in Oz now!"?? How strict *is* this "No MGM references" rule? -- It also says that due to the movie, no reference can be made to rainbows, but I'm sure that it would come as a surprise to Polychrome to learn that Ted Turner holds a copyright on rainbows! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 21, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:53:46 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Oz Matters Tyler: Even if Dorothy and Mombi had never met, they probably knew a good deal about each other, since they were both important hoztorical figures. David: It's true that the texts don't really tell where the WWW's home is located. It is definitely west of the Emerald City, and Haff and Martin place it near Marshland. Considering how long it took Dorothy and her companions to reach the castle in _Wizard_, this might actually be too close to the EC. As for the GWN's home, we know that Tattypoo lived in Mombi's old house, which was near the Gillikin Mountains. Haff and Martin seemed to have given this a reasonable location on their map. There are many different occasions of petrification, some of which definitely involve transformation, and others which might not. Margolotte and Unc Nunkie were turned to marble, the Cowardly Lion was turned to stone (in _Cowardly Lion_), and Quiberon was transformed to some material by the Wizard's powder (probably the same as the Powder of Petrifaction that the Wiz mentions in _Speedy_). On the other hand, Roquat petrifies the Cowardly Lion and Hungry Tiger in _Ozma_, but he apparently does not change their body compositions. IIRC, there are several occasions on which the Magic Belt was available, but a character was un-transformed in another manner. The Belt apparently does not work against all transformations. Dave: _Wizard_ and _Land_ seem to make it clear that the Sun rises in the east and sets in the west in Oz. Actually, "There's no place like home" is not exclusively a line from the movie. Not only was it a line from a song, but Dorothy actually said it in the book of _Wizard_, during one of her early conversations with the Scarecrow. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 16:51:21 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-20-97 Tyler: > > I'm assuming that a MUCK is some sort of on-line group, but that's a new term > to me. Translation? A MUCK is an artificial environment of several thousand rooms where people interact in real time. Essentially, Tyler, it's RPGing over the internet. You have a persona (although no stats usually), and interact with other folks. Didn't we have these discussions before? Other varieties are called MOOs, MUDs, or MUSHes (different programming language being the only difference, basically). BTW, David. Why XOE on your email addy. That's a monogram of Jesus, isn't it? --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:54:23 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-20-97 > I don't really know the details of Wumbo's rule about two enchantments > working simultaneously. I do know that Sir Hokus, who was already under > the Sultan's spell, was turned into a bird by Wish Way. I suppose that > Wumbo's rule doesn't pertain equally to all enchantments. > There are at least two types of enchantments, temporal ones which have a time lapse and permanant ones that need very special techniques to undo. The spell by which Corum became Sir Hokus is definitely of the latter class and does not serve (as some viruses do) to provide immunity to another spell. > From: Ozgrif@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Are the names that you refer to for the WWW & WWE and > GWN in public domain? And where can I find out more about > how each country in Oz is governed, without infringing on > anybody's rights? The names Gingemma and Bastinda for the Wicked Witches of the East and West respectively come from Alexander Volkov's Russian stories of MAGIC LAND. I doubt if there are any real copyright problems concerned with them. Tattypoo was the name RPT gave to the GWN in GAINT HORSE. There has been much discussion on the digest if she was the GWN of WIZARD. > I would like to stay as close to the mythos as possible although > I can't resist putting in some original characters such as Ambi > Ombi's nephew and the new King of the Winged Monkeys. I must say the heroic Ambi Ombi bears little resemblance to the Ombi Amby of Baum's and Snow's novels. He doesn't even have green whiskers. > I will say the Mombi in our comic is a powerful witch, however > she picks her moments to unleash that power as to not draw to > much attention. > Thanks for hearing me out...and any other comments are > welcome. -- Ralph Griffith Yes, my question: How can someone who does not life near a major comic book store get OZ Comics? > > > I have two questions regarding the Oz Book Contest: > > 1) Does the deadline of March 31 mean the manuscript must be > *postmarked* March 31, or soes it have to actually be in > IWOC's mailbox on the 31st? > If it is postmarked in the U.S. by March 31, we will consider it. > 2) The Contest Rules expressly forbid references to the movie, > including, "There's No Place Like". But this is not a movie > reference but a song that the movie quotes. So couldn't > Dorothy say something like, "There's no place like home, > and my home is in Oz now!"?? How strict *is* this "No > MGM references" rule? -- It also says that due to the > movie, no reference can be made to rainbows, but I'm sure > that it would come as a surprise to Polychrome to learn that > Ted Turner holds a copyright on rainbows! :) > > > -- Dave No Ruby Slippers! No Brooklynese Lion! No diplomaed Scarecrow! No Northern Glinda! No Miss Gluch, Hunk, Hickory. Nothing that comes from the movie that isn't in the book. Especially no Judy Garland. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:44:20 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-20-97 David: While I think it's accurate to say that Southern California refers to the area south of the Tehachapi Mountains, I don't think the rest of the state is considered Northern California. In my experience, most Californians consider Northern California to start in the San Francisco Bay Area. That puts the Central Coast (roughly between Big Sur and Santa Barbara) and the San Joaquin Valley (the southern part of the Central Valley) in a sort of no-man's land. I suspect some people would consider anything south of the Bay Area to be Southern California, but that's not really satisfactory either. For example, I consider Monterey to be culturally more like the North than the South. My Thomas Brothers California Road Atlas and Driver's Guide draws a line right down the middle, which puts San Jose in Southern California! What does this have to do with Oz. I don't know. I'd have to reread DotWiz before trying to place their location. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 20:43:19 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz X-Mas Stocking I just got a lovely bit of junk E-Mail that I hope others will like more than I did. It is all about a VERY attractive Oz X-Mas stocking which is hand crafted. Unfortunately it depicts ruby rather than silver shoe, but I have suggested to the creator she offer the alternative. You can see it at: http://members.aol.com/BluOrchid2/index.html ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:41:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Mombi and Dorothy (Ozzy Digest) 1) Tyler, perhaps Mombi lived for several years in the Emerald City before Ozma exiled her. If so, Dorothy may have had chance to meet Mombi there. Alternatively, since Dorothy was not restricted to the Emerald City, she may have encountered Dorothy in the Gillikin Country. 2) Ralph et. al., I don't have any problem with a behavior-influencing spell or artifact; we do have equivalents in our own world (drugs, electrodes stuck in the brains of rats, imbalances in brain chemistry, etc.). Though I must note that as a matter of principle I believe that it is possible for those thus influenced to fight against the influence--though not always successfully. 3) David, I'm not sure how the Tin Woodman was able to blow a whistle, but I suppose that he and the Scarecrow could "swallow" pills by inserting them into their insides. 4) Ralph, the names Gingemma and Bastinda (originating in the works of Volkov) I believe are PD. Locasta (which originated in the play version of _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_) I think is probably PD. (Dave, you revived this last name; please help us.) Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 20:15:21 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-20-97 >In regard to the sun rising in the west and setting in the east >(as it apparently does in _Wicked_), is it possible that the planet >Nonestica rotates in retrograde, leading to this phenomenon in the >"real" Oz, and possibly to the confusion regarding the Oz map... Nope. _By definition_, the north pole of any planet is the one that goes counter-clockwise, seen from above. The only way you can get the sun rising in the west is when rotation is so slow and the orbit is so fast that the (illusory) movement of the sun against the stars overtakes the effect of rotation. (In which case retrograde rotation does get involved as a factor.) // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:18:27 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz Bears I found these guys at the Pangea Toy Network and thought they were cute. At least you may get a laugh out of them. Feel free to save or delete them as you will. I just thought I'd share them with a few of you. Not sure if this can be copied to the whole Digest, so am only sending 'em to those of you who are in my regular address book. Oh, ignore the code at the bottom unless you have access to or interest in the Toy Network. It is a ToyBuck that can only be spent there. [NOTE: I've put this picture temporarily on my "Oz Gallery" page at http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Oz_Gallery.html for anyone who wants to see it. -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:40:04 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-20-97 Shaggy: Sin and evil are two very different things. (Well, there are sometimes similarities and/or overlaps, but they aren't identical by any means.) Peter G.: There seems to be a line missing from your post. This is pretty common with the Digest, alas. But I wonder what came before "second by Baum...". Tyler: Dorothy and Mombi never met in the FF before LOST KING, but Dorothy was all over Oz between EC and LK; Mombi might well have been lurking in the background somewhere. (Maybe she was cooking for Coo-ee-oh, for instance.) Ralph: Bastinda and Gingemma are the names given to the wicked witches by Aleksandr Volkov, who wrote a Russian version of WIZARD in 1939 or so and later wrote several sequels to it which diverge completely from the Baum-Thompson Oz books. (They're quite good stories in their own right, though.) March Laumer adopted those names in some of his books. I believe - though I'm not a copyright lawyer - that because there was no mutual copyright treaty between the USSR and the US in 1939, those names are available in the public domain in this country. Dave: The possibility of retrograde rotation of the Nonestica-planet has been discussed here before, and seems plausible to me. I E-mailed John Fricke a week or so ago about your first question, and he said that the March 31 deadline is for postmark, not arrival in the box. (I take it that you've got an entry ready for the contest? Good luck...against everyone but me, that is. ) I'm not a judge, but it would seem to me that it would all depend on the context - that is, if "there's no place like home" or rainbow references seem to allude to the movie, then they'd be verboten, but if they're clearly used in a different context, they should be OK. (Certainly I used a rainbow to get Polychrome to Betsy's party at the end of GLASS CAT, and I haven't heard any objection from Turner yet. Of course, he nor his lawyers have probably ever seen a copy of the book, either...)(And Neill used a rainbow to get Davy and Bucky into Oz in LUCKY BUCKY, which was published three years after the movie came out.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 19:49:25 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-19-97 Nathan: >In _Disenchanted Princess_, Zim thinks that Mombi used long-distance magic to transform Tip, but that the boy needed to be wearing a device on which the witch could "home in." The Scarecrow and his companions in _Land_ were not wearing such devices.< I tend to think it IS possible to transform the wrong person with long-distance magic. Especially if you are not strong in long-distance magic. Tip's device was "extra added insurance." Scarecrow & company were not transformed long-distance--Mombi used illusions to boggle them. If she COULD have transformed all of 'em instead, she surely would have. :-) :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:12:41 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest (3/20) Nathan DeHoff: Ginger's an intriguing character, isn't he? I've been thinking some more about him, an it occurs to me to wonder -- does he exist when he isn't called into service by the dinner bell? If he does, is his world markedly different from Ev-and-environs, and is it possible that curiosity about seeing Jinnicky's world makes him consider it a fair bargain to be tied to the bell in return for free travel into those foreign lands? If not, maybe a possible story someone would like to try could have him bargaining not for freedom from the bell, but freedom to exist in between times? David Hulan's ingenious suggestion that Jinnicky might have created Ginger and might have included in Ginger's make- up the kind of desire-to-serve that the Crooked Magician intended for Scraps would be a plausible explanation for Ginger's enjoyment of his status as bell-servant, but even on those terms, Ginger might well be imagined as wanting more to his life. It's not as if answering the dinner-bell takes up very much of his time. (It doesn't even take up much effort, except the time that Peter was using the food for ammunition.) Craig Noble: A collection of Oz color plates might be nice to have, but I suppose the some of the same objections Peter Glassman suggested for non-Oz-Baum-artists' work would apply. Still, if such projects aren't the sort of thing Books of Wonder could take on, maybe the IWOC might want to consider something of the sort eventually. Cost problems would be important considerations, though. Color tends to be Expensive. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:27:24 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-19-97 > Rich: > In _Lost King_, it is actually Dorothy, not Mombi, who suggests the > execution of Mombi. The Queen is clearly not the only one who is feeling > rather mean, and, as far as I know, Mombi never did anything to Dorothy. > It should be noted that in THE COWARDLY LION OF OZ Dorothy throws a bucket of water on Notta Bit More just because he was dressed like a witch. This strikes me as an even more intolerant act because it suggests that witches (or old women that look like witches) should be summarily executed. > > Given this significant list of things Bastinda could have done but didn't > do, I suspect that either a) she was rather stupid or b) she couldn't do > them. > I would tend to go along with (b). We are not given much evidence of her powers other than her control over creatures (including Winkies) > > n + 1) Stephen, the seeming garbage in my signature, if viewed in ISO > 8859-8 without mangling, is actually my Hebrew name.=20 > > Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman > adelman@yu1.yu.edu > I do not know what IOS 8859-8 is. I changed my fixed font preference to Web Hebrew Monotype and the result is still alphanumeric. I realize that this response to the March 19 Digest is being sent much later that my response to the March 20 Digest. However things have been going strangely at my university (perhaps in my universe as well). Next week is spring break (I originally typed string break and sounded like an unfortunate violinist) so I do not know when I will be responding to Digests then. The Quadling Convention is April 18=19. The subject is THE SCARECROW OF OZ and the film HIS MAJESTY THE SCARECROW will be shown. It is the least expensive of Oz Conventions ($12 including Friday Dinner [Pizza Buffet] and Saturday lunch. The motel is only $49 a night, and that includes complementary breakfast [and a complementary drink if so desired]. If you live anywhere near Tulsa, don't miss it. Contact Susan or Shirley Hall 918 835-7277. Reservation deadline: April 1. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:02:05 -0500 (EST) From: ZMaund@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-20-97 Responding to David Hulan's post: IMHO the river in Merryland is not circular! It is in the shape of a half-circle. I say this with great confidence because I wrote the opinionated cartographic article in the _Bugle_ a few years back, and everybody knows that if it's in the Bugle, it must be true. -- Patrick Maund ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Mar 97 12:54:45 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things I want to apologize for my "Blithe Spirit" signature getting tacked on to the end of some of the last few days Digests...My new mailer attaches the signature to the end of my mail messages by default, and I've forgotten to switch it off...I'll try to remember in future... THE NAMING OF WITCHES IS A DIFFICULT MATTER: Everyone's pretty much laid out by now the origin of the witches' names (at least the ones normally used on the Digest). I'll just add a bit about Locasta...Her name does come from Baum's original stage version of _Wizard of Oz_, and I've always *assumed* that it is PD because everything Baum is PD now as far as I know, and Shanower has already used Imogene (another character name from the same play) in his _Giant Garden of Oz_. I won't waste Digest space by laying out yet again my MOPPET about the distinction between Locasta and Tattypoo (the *other* Good Witch of the North)...I'll just refer you to section 4.4 of the Ozzy Digest FAQ. PARDON ME FOR "BREATHING": Perhaps the Scarecrow and Tin Man, while not needing to breathe to sustain their lives, can make use of air for things like blowing whistles. I'm very doubtful of their abiltity to ingest pills or anything else though... (BTW, is referring to Nick Chopper as "the Tin Man" a violation of the No-MGM Contest Rule, even though I *always* call him the "Tin Man" because "Tin *Woodman*" seems like such a misnomer after he became Emperor.) WITCH HUNTS???: >It should be noted that in THE COWARDLY LION OF OZ Dorothy throws a >bucket of water on Notta Bit More just because he was dressed like a >witch. Great Gorgonopsians! RPT really makes Dorothy "trigger happy" (or I guess I should say "bucket happy"), doesn't she??? Whatever happened to "It was an accident! I didn't mean to kill *anybody*!"??? -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 22, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:21:33 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-21-97 Nathan: The time it would take to get from the EC to the WWW's castle isn't really that clear from WIZARD, since Dot & Co. don't get all the way there before they're waylaid by the Winged Monkeys, and on the way back they get lost and wander aimlessly for a while before enlisting the aid of the WM. It appears to be rather less than a two-day walk, but more than one. (The Fab Four travel one full day with no incident. That night and the next day they're beset by the witch's animal allies. After that she sends the Winkies from her castle to meet them; they do that and run back to the castle, all long enough before the end of that day that there's time for the witch to summon the WM and for them to capture the adventurers, so the latter must have gotten fairly close to the castle that day despite a lot of delays.) Shaggy: Actually, that wasn't Tyler who asked for the definition of a MUCK but me. If XOE is a monogram of Jesus I've never run across it in that context. The reason I use it is a longish and probably boring story that I won't go into in detail, but it stands for "Ex-Official Editor". Steve: You didn't mention specifically that because GIANT HORSE is still under copyright, "Tattypoo" as a name for the GWN is not PD. Not until about 2004. I think the heroic Amber Ombi in OZ comics is Omby Amby's nephew, or at least that's what I understood from Ralph's earlier post. That would seem legitimate enough. Making Omby Amby himself heroic, on the other hand, would be a major heresy. Craig: People from the Central Coast and Central Valley often call their area Northern California, but often don't. What they never do is call it Southern California, which is why I said that DOTWIZ did not start in Southern California. Aaron: I'm sure the Tin Woodman and Scarecrow could insert pills into their body cavities, but since there would be nothing to dissolve the pills, how would they take effect? Ruth: Ginger appears to exist at least part of the time when he isn't being called into existence by the dinner bell. In JACK PUMPKINHEAD he remains with Jack long enough to help him up the stairs and into Jinnicky's presence, and is in fact still around when Jack is wished back to Oz, and converses with the Djinn afterwards. And in SILVER PRINCESS Gludwig is able to imprison him in a drum, which seems to imply that he was in existence in Ev (since Gludwig didn't have the dinner bell). My feeling is that Ginger exists and is free to do as he pleases - probably including traveling about magically under his own volition - except when called upon by the bell. I would imagine that a book of color plates like you propose would have to sell for something between $50-100 to be economically feasible, and even then it would have to sell several hundred copies. But that's just a guess. I'd probably buy one, but I wonder how many other people - even IWOC members - would. Steve: Presumably an "old woman who looked like a witch" wouldn't be seriously harmed by being doused with water. Dorothy's pre-emptive strike in COWARDLY LION would only be effective against witches, and probably only against wicked witches. We don't know for sure what would happen to a good witch if she were immersed, but it's strongly implied (though not explicitly stated) that Glinda went into the water in SCALAWAGONS. (Certainly she went looking for a bathing suit, but maybe she just wanted to soak up some rays.) Patrick: >IMHO the river in Merryland is not circular! It is in the shape of a >half-circle. I say this with great confidence because I wrote the opinionated >cartographic article in the _Bugle_ a few years back, and everybody knows >that if it's in the Bugle, it must be true. When I said "circular" I was using the term loosely, meaning that water flowed continuously in a closed path. What we know about the river in Merryland is that if you go into it off the main river (I forget if it's specifically identified as the Hudson, but it obviously is) you come out upstream of the place you went into it. I have no opinion as to the physical shape of the river in Merryland; it could flow in a pentacle shape for all of me. Dave: I don't think RPT makes Dorothy all that much more "trigger happy" than Baum does (after WIZARD). At least, she seems to have no compunction about transforming Nomes into eggs (which is probably fatal for them - or at least, she has good reason to believe it is), or seeing the Wizard slice the Sorcerer in half or burn up the Gargoyles, or watching the Shaggy Man throw all the Scoodlers' heads down into the gulf, or finding that Toto has eaten several of the citizens of Bunbury. Granted, with the exception of the first these deeds are done by companions and not herself, but she doesn't seem to find any of them objectionable. RPT just gives her a couple of extra opportunities - and, as I pointed out to Steve, if the "witch" in CL weren't really a witch, dousing her wouldn't do any serious harm. (Just to her dignity and comfort - as, in fact, happened.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:27:13 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Stephen: You made a good point when you mentioned Dorothy's reaction to Notta in _Cowardly Lion_. It may be that Dorothy's experiences with the WWW made her terrified of witches (which is kinda ironic, when you consider that old Bastinda, or whatever her name was, was afraid of Dorothy), but the Emerald City-ites in general seem to be rather "witchophobic" in _Cowardly Lion_. Could this have been due to an unrecorded incident in which a witch invaded the Emerald City. On a related note, security at Ozma's Palace seems to become tighter as the series progresses. In _Magic_, IIRC, it is stated that the castle doors are always open, and that pretty much anyone can enter the palace. In _Handy Mandy_, however, Jellia is reprimanded for letting a complete stranger into Ozma's Palace. A study of the security measures taken in the EC throughout the series might be interesting. Ruth: After Ginger has brought food to the bell-ringer, he travels back to Jinnicky's Palace. I've always assumed that he lived there, but he might actually live in some other dimension or something. Dave: I don't think that calling the "the Tin Man" is copyright infringement upon the movie, but, if you're worried, you could always call him "the Tin Emperor." -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:57:51 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Oz and the Three Witches: Chris Dulabone may know how to get in touch with Hugh Pendexter III, since BEOO also published another one of his books. He may not mind us shooting copies of them. It was published by Pen Press, if anybody knows how to get in touch with them. Ralph: I'll try to answer a few of your questions. Currently, we have two names for the WWW: Bastinda and Allidap. Bastinda is the name given to her by Russian author Alexander Volkov, while Allidap was given to her by the Wiz Kids of Oz. I do not think the name of Bastinda is copyrighted in the USA, and Chris DUlabone should be able to tell you if Allidap is. Gingemma (the name we use for the WWE) is also from Volkov. Tattypoo is the name of the GWN given by Thompson, and is probably under copyright. Locasta, the name of the "true" GWN, is Dave Hardenbrook's creation, and is also probably under copyright, or will be soon :-) I am not sure what your other request meant. Do you mean the names of rulers of the various sections of Oz or the manner in which they rule? David on Petrification: Your comment appears to be true. It can be argued that at the time of _Patchwork Girl_, the Belt was still drained from its use in _Emerald City_, but when the Cowardly Lion was turned into stone his namesake book, nobody even thought of the Belt, and by that time we were into the Thompsonian era of ultra-powerful-magic-that-can-do-anything. Web Page: I am in the process of once again overhauling my web page. It should be done in a few days. Dave: If it were possible, I'm sure Ted Turner would do everything in his power to gain control over rainbows, the original "colorizer" :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 20:13:08 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Mike: I wasn't the one who asked about MUCKS, but thanks for the info anyway. Locasta: Yikes! I wrong on this one. Dave Hardenbrook did NOT originate this name, and it is probably PD since it originated from the play. Stephen: Dorothy's water-bucket act against Notta was only half-intolerant, since an old woman who only LOOKED like a witch would not have melted. Nevertheless, it was probably wrong of Dorothy to assume that this unknown person deserved to be destroyed. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:24:52 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-21-97, 03-20-97 C.R. Noble, "In my experience, most Californians consider Northern California to start in the San Francisco Bay Area. That puts the Central Coast (roughly between Big Sur and Santa Barbara) and the San Joaquin Valley (the southern part of the Central Valley) in a sort of no-man's land." Can you say "Central California"? BTW, Northern California used to be referred to by the _Sacramento Bee_ as "Superior California" which seems perfectly valid to me. Also, in reference to David Hulan's problem with the Tin Woodman's ability to blow the whistle, lacking lungs, a similar objection could be raised to his voluntary movements because he lacks muscles. There are problems with the Scarecrow's and Jack Pumpkinhead's physical abilities also. I surmise that the whole thing is, as we who were raised Catholic were taught in catechism classes, "A mystery that must be taken on faith". Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 21:52:50 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls I'm trying to catch up on a weeks worth of Digests. Is it just me or does it seem like some of our members are on drugs? Maybe I'm confusing academic response with drugged response. :) David - There is one other reason to buy your book from BOW. They are the ones who are putting out the books we enjoy. Let's give them all the support we can. Borders is just a bunch trying to put smaller stores out of business and maximize their profits. As a "good" Liberal I would think you would want to support the little guy. As a "bad" Conservative I sure do. Borders isn't too popular around here. They took a fine old theatre in town and coverted it to an unwanted and unneeded chain store. Arghhh. Jeremy - In a similar "vein," of course join IWOC. That's the only way you will get The Bugle. Support the people who support your interests! Craig - You were warned! Why read an "unsatisfying" book when there are so many satisfying ones around. :) Sigh - Ozgrif - would you mind shortening your line length. Please. Crabbily, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 23 - 24, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:05:01 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-22-97 Tyler: Elphaba and Nessarose are other names for the WW West and East, respectively, from WICKED. There are probably yet others. Bear: Borders has its faults, but the fact that it's the only national chain that carries MY book is enough to give me a good opinion of it. OTOH, BoW is the store whose owners published my book, which gives me an even better opinion of it. I give in. I'll order the book from BoW. RSN. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 22:03:40 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-22-97 Dave: I received two copies of today's Digest. Bear: Now's your chance to "warn" me not to read _Barnstormer_! :) Everyone: I have a little secret to share -- my wife Terry and I are expecting our first baby this September. I must confess I'm very excited about introducing our child to Oz. Terry had the great idea of decorating the baby's room with Oz stuff. I love the idea, but don't know how to do it. I'm not much of an artist, and I don't care for pictures from the MGM movie. I'd really like to use Neill and Denslow illustrations to create some sort of a border effect. I'm obviously not going to use originals of anything valuable. Maybe I could color pictures from the IWOC reprint of the _Oz Toybook_ and enlarge them on a color copier. I've also seen matted color plates sold at a few old book stores. I suppose I could even copy color plates straight from my BoW reprints, as long as I don't have to flatten the books. What do you think? You're a creative crowd. I'd love to hear your suggestions. I've got six more months to plan this. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 22:20:01 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Witches and water: In the non-FF (and some say blasphemous) _A Barnstormer in Oz_, Farmer said that some old (I am not sure if he specified wicked) witches dissolved when coming in contact with water becuase they made use of extraphysical electricity to keep their bodies going long after they should have died. Nathan: Perhaps Ozma should hire Worf or Odo as chief of security. Bear: I was interested in your comment about an old theatre in your area being torn down. The same thing may happen here in Phoenix. It's not for want of a bookstore, but I suspect conspiracy. :-) I learned this form Dogbert's management course: I want to add my plug for "the little guy". Buy from BEOO. Buy from BOW. You are all under my power. Write to Chris Dulabone and give him lots of money. Call BOW and give them lots of money... :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 22:45:32 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-22-97 Ruth: Ginger really has always seemed such a nifty character to me that I never even thought about the issue of his being a slave. He seems to have an existance other than in response to the bell, knows quite a few of the details of Gludwig's rebellion against Jinicky, and also, clearly, is very, very fond of "the Master." He seems proud of being "the best part of Jinnicky's magic..." and seems capable of some pretty heavy duty thinking:"I will think of something" he promises Kabumpo et al. He's quite likeable. Odd that I never connected "slave" to slavery with him. Never thought about it at all in reference to the Oz books although, as many here have correctly pointed out, it's most certainly there. I simply "swallowed it whole" as a kid and, in a not-so-good version of "persistence of memory," have done so ever since on this point. Rather unsettling, y'know?! I felt the same way when a customer pointed out all the black dialect in the Bobbsey Twins series, which I'd also read and enjoyed and never thought about as far as what values were represented therein. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 21:27:58 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: OZ: A request I'm in the process now of updating and expanding my "Wizard of Oz" FAQ and web page. I've got some ideas, but I'd appreciate it if any online Oz fans could take a look again (URL below) and give me any suggestions, ideas, etc. -- bearing in mind that my account's memory is a bit limited! I'd especially appreciate hearing about any other Oz web sites I'm not currently linked to. (Even if you've told me about it before, better tell me again, to be safe.) Please e-mail any notes to me at tiktok@eskimo.com. Thanks. --Eric Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 00:50:50 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Wizard of Oz Midi music? Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' Good question, Adrian! I'm forwarding your note to the Ozzy Digest in hopes the participants = can help out. Of course you would need to respect any copyright = restrictions when making use of the music. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: adrian@adsil.demon.co.uk [SMTP:adrian@adsil.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 1997 5:36 AM Subject: Wizard of Oz Midi music? Does anyone know where I could get the music from the film in MIDI Thank you Adrian Sills UK. adrian@adsil.demon.co.uk ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 00:25:20 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: birthday To: "'TDruding@aol.com'" Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' Hi, I'm forwarding your question to the Ozzy Digest discussion group, as some of the members keep up with current party goods offerings. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: TDruding@aol.com [SMTP:TDruding@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, March 22, 1997 12:37 PM To: info@ozclub.org Subject: birthday I'm looking for party decoration for the wizard of Oz. table cover, paper plates etc. could you tell me where i could by them. thanks TDruding@aol ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 00:30:46 -0800 From: serenadb@sos.net (Serena DuBois) Subject: Oz Digests 3/21 on Comments on recent digest comments: >In my experience, most Californians consider Northern California to start in >the San Francisco Bay Area. That puts the Central Coast (roughly between >Big Sur and Santa Barbara) and the San Joaquin Valley (the southern part of >the Central Valley) in a sort of no-man's land. I must be an exception to that rule! I grew up north of Sacramento and spent 25 years in San Francisco. In my mind southern California starts around Bakersfield across. I would definitely put the Montery coast in Northern Calif and Santa Barbara in the northern part of Southern California. If this has to do with the earthquake that started Dorothy and Zeb on their trip to Oz, I personally always assumed they got caught in some part of the '06 San Francisco Firequake or some aftermath of that quake if only because of the timing of the writing of the book. It has been too long since I read it last to know for sure if he mentions at all accurately where they were. The other possibility is that since Baum did his writing at "Ozcot" in (I have always presumed) southern California he would write about the part of California he knew. Since almost ALL of California is underlaid by one geologic fault or another and thus lousy with earthquakes all the time (mostly tiny little tremors that only a seismologist would notice!), it could have happened almost anywhere! Steve Teller said in reference to Dorothy's attitude about witches: >It should be noted that in THE COWARDLY LION OF OZ Dorothy throws a >bucket of water on Notta Bit More just because he was dressed like a >witch. This strikes me as an even more intolerant act because it >suggests that witches (or old women that look like witches) should be >summarily executed. I would like to suggest that considering Dorothy's extreme youth (discussed in detail in previous posts) at the time of WWOZ (and the troubles she was put through because of them at that time) that she has developed some kind of anti-bad-witch fixation (perhaps augmented by the GWN's magic kiss) which makes her normally balanced character go a bit off center when they show up. Think how Gloma panicked when she realized that Dorothy and Pigasus were her unwanted guests in Wishing Horse? She was sure she was on the list for liquidation (I LOVE that word by the way! So descriptive!). It could be tied to their witchy looks because Gloma turned out to be not only neutral in witchyness if not outright Meddling Good [I have my own personal doubts and biases about "Good People" meddling in others' business more often than not when not asked!] but beautiful as well under her black dip. Dorothy is left with a reaction that says, "Trouble happens when bad witches show up! Let's liquidate them!" And to a certain extent unfortunately, evil and ugly seem to be intertwined in her mind! Neither of these are PC attitudes, but the thing I have always liked about Dorothy is that she is NOT one of those hideously good heroines of children's literature, but a real person in her own right with faults as well as virtues (such as loyalty to her friends!). In the 3/21 Digest Tyler Jones said >If it were possible, I'm sure Ted Turner would do everything in his power to >gain control over rainbows, the original "colorizer" :-) Good line! I think Ted would crack up if he read it. In everything I have heard about him, he has struck me as a man with a sense of humor! Dave Hardenbrook: I received two copies of the 3/22 Digest one at 2 p.m.and one at 10 p.m.. Did you feel bad that it was shorter than normal and decide to send it twice?? ;-) SerenaDB ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:45:30 -0800 (PST) From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) Subject: Oz Digest Item I note that the hardware for reading/writing CD-ROMs is now at $400, a $100 drop in only a few weeks! Time for some of you with Macs (we know you have money) to swing into action on an Oz CD! :) Seriously, though, I don't recall any definitive discussion in the Digest as to exactly what contributors would like to see on such a project, or even whether they would be interested in buying one. Though ISTR someone (can't remember who) saying they were doing at least preliminary work on one. W_Baldwin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:50:36 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-22-97 > > Steve: > Presumably an "old woman who looked like a witch" wouldn't be seriously > harmed by being doused with water. Dorothy's pre-emptive strike in COWARDLY > LION would only be effective against witches, and probably only against > wicked witches. We don't know for sure what would happen to a good witch if > she were immersed, but it's strongly implied (though not explicitly stated) > that Glinda went into the water in SCALAWAGONS. (Certainly she went looking > for a bathing suit, but maybe she just wanted to soak up some rays.) > > David Hulan > > Stephen: > You made a good point when you mentioned Dorothy's reaction to Notta in > _Cowardly Lion_. It may be that Dorothy's experiences with the WWW made > her terrified of witches (which is kinda ironic, when you consider that > old Bastinda, or whatever her name was, was afraid of Dorothy), but the > Emerald City-ites in general seem to be rather "witchophobic" in > _Cowardly Lion_. Could this have been due to an unrecorded incident in > which a witch invaded the Emerald City. > > -- > Nathan Mulac DeHoff > Stephen: > Dorothy's water-bucket act against Notta was only half-intolerant, since > an old woman who only LOOKED like a witch would not have melted. > Nevertheless, it was probably wrong of Dorothy to assume that this > unknown person deserved to be destroyed. > > --Tyler Jones I wish to note that in my very favorite Thompson Book, THE WISHING HORSE OF OZ, the otherwise virtuous and good Gloma, Witch of the Black Forest, tries to destroy Dorothy preemtively because Dorothy has a terrible reputation as a witch destroyer. When she fails she resigns herself to her fate and asks that her innorcent subjects be spared. You see how a reputation for destructiveness can cling (especially when you consider her behavior towards Notta-Bit-More and Mombi! Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:03:57 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 19th-22 Yes, everyone, I was away for awhile again. I went to Louisiana (New Orleans, to be specific) and played in various places along the way. It was great--after the first two days of unceasing rain. I finally got to see "Old New Orleans" and enjoyed it immensely. And now for the Digests I missed: 19th: Tyler: I don't live in Mo, but I do do things on the spur of the Momen. (Responding to your quote.) Re resubscribing to the BUGLE: Is there a way to get back on it now without being a "new subscriber"? I'm not--not really, at least. 20th: Tyler: About Dorothy and Mombi: Perhaps Mombi has some sort of talent for recognizing her adversaries before they get too adverse. There is probably no FF support for this whatsoever, but it makes an interesting theory. Anyone: Would someone repeat what Gingemma, Locasta, and Bastinda refer to? That is, which is the WWW, WWE, and GWN? Oh, and the other long names too . . . ? 21st: Aaron: About behavior-influencing spells: one figures all too promenently in EMERALD RING. No, this isn't an advertisement, just a statement of fact. David H.: Are you implying that I was watching Dorothy the whole time? No one was supposed to know about that! --Mombi, recently revived on Kiex's request Does anyone know where the above came from? I swear it just appeared there! --Jeremy Steven: The witch-execution already got one city into the history books; I don't think we need any more Salem-y sandwitches. 22nd: Bear: I may have given the wrong impression here. I was a member of the IWOC until just a few years ago. At that point, I found I had little time to read Bugles and was getting behind, so I failed to renew. I did enjoy the Bugle for some time, and even corresponded with Fred Meyer a little at one point. I think I shall rejoin, but as I said above, I'd like to do so at the renewal rate rather than the new subscriber rate, if I can. Any hints? By the way, what makes you say some Digesters (sorry) are "on drugs"? Oz well that ends well--and, well, I am ending, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:14:26 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: can you see our web page? To: DAVEH47@delphi.com I am asking a bunch of you, but I want to know what all of you can see and how it works for you. There are still a few among you who have voiced difficulties with the older version. It is condensed now. Test all the links and let me know if any don't work for you. More illos will be up soon (we are having some problems getting some to open, but this Glinda we have is marvelous). Also, more of the links I had promised are being added as we see whether or not any of these are working. I still haven't figured out how to make a hyperlink, but the URL is the same: http://members.aol.com/OzBucket/webpage/home.htm ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:56:47 -0500 (EST) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-22-97 To: "Dave L. Hardenbrook" Reply-to: gili@scso.com Hello Ozzies! I'm back after nearly two weeks... boy did I have a lot of catching up to do! I was busy with many things, including the play I am directing - this is not at all Ozzy but I would like to invite you to take a look at the webpage for the play: http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~abhillel/dogs.html/ Sorry that some of my responses go back quite a few digests... First, some corrections: "The Exiles", Ray Bradbury's short story which has an Ozzy connection, does not appear in _The Martian Chronicles_ but in _R is for Rocket_. However, one of the stories in _The Martian Chronicles_ also has an Ozzy connection, I think the story is called "The House of Usher II" but I'm not sure. Second, I'm surprised no one else caught this - it is true that the Disney movie "The Rescuers" is not based on Margery Sharp's book _The Rescuers_. This is because it is based on Margery Sharp's _Miss Bianca_. Not that Disney did not take liberties with this book too, but the connection is much clearer: I can't check this because my library is across the ocean, but in _The Rescuers_ (the book) Bernard and Miss Bianca rescue a Norwegian political prisoner from a jail where he was wrongly held, in _Miss Bianca_ they rescue a little girl named Penny who was being kept as a servant/slave to a cruel mistress, much more like the Disney movie. In general, I do not hold with the belief that a faithful film adaptation of a book is a good adaptation of it. A truly classic book should be able to withstand many adaptations, and each adaptation adds its own perspective. Disney's "Jungle Book" is a far cry from Kipling, but it is a great film. I'm glad that both are around. The same goes for "Mary Poppins" - I loved both books and movie, though they do present a very different Poppins... Doug Parker, I love the way your mind works. Imagine finding poetry in the way a machine chops up your sentences... Shaggy Man, your little Baruch is off to a wonderful start. Good that he has such an encouraging family! I loved the "story". Ralph Griffith - welcome aboard! Good to see you take such an interest in researching for "Oz". Take everything that is said here with a grain of salt. Most of us love our Oz just the way it was, gentle and peaceful. But we are also happy to have Oz spread to as many people as possible, and your take on Oz is intruiging, if disturbing. You may have written this in your post which I accidentaly deleted, so I'll ask again - which of the Oz comics are available in collections? I have a couple of individual issues, but I'd much rather have a collection as the way plots get strung from one issue to another in action comics frustrates me... Once I'm interested, I've just got to know what happens next. Another superfluous comment about white hair and wrinkles: as noted by others, this is a function not only of age but of exposure to the sun, diet, and genetics too. My mother has had white hair since her late forties. I'm sure that a hundred years ago, sixty-year-old farmer's wives looked much older than many sixty-year-olds do today. Well, I should go to sleep... G'night! Gili ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Gili Bar-Hillel abhillel@fas.harvard.edu gili@scso.com http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== "He thought he saw a Rattlesnake |\ _,,,---,,_ That questioned him in Greek: /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ He looked again, and found it was |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' The Middle of Next Week. '---''(_/--' `-'\_) 'The one thing I regret,' he said, (cat by Felix Lee) 'Is that it cannot speak!'" - Lewis Carrol, "Sylvie and Bruno" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Mar 97 00:53:29 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MORE INTERNET WEIRDNESS: As many of you pointed out, everyone received two copies of the 3/22 Digest. I *know* that *everyone* received two because *I* did as well! (For verification purposes, and also because Compuserve screams if the To: field is empty, I forward a copy of the Digest to myself.) But that nicely redresses the balance I guess, since I received two copies of everyone's Saturday messages! And in the case of Compuserve, I received three, four, and sometimes even *five* duplicates of every message you sent me Thursday thru Saturday! Curiouser and curiouser! MORE WITCH NAMES: David wrote: >Elphaba and Nessarose are other names for the WW West and East, respectively, >from WICKED. There are probably yet others. There are also my *own* names for the pair -- Old Snarl-Spats and Old Sand-Eye, but these names have not yet seen "the light of day" (so to speak). TO CHRIS/BUCKETHEAD: Your Web pages look great to me! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 25, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:22:24 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 3/21 Digest, Steve T. responds, Interesting observation -- a pattern is emerging here. Perhaps Dorothy's experience with the WWW traumatized her so that she finds it difficult to react dispassionately to anyone she perceives to be a witch. Noted With Interest: The Sunday River Ski Resort in Maine has added an Oz section. The names of the ski trails there are Cowardly Lion, Witch Way, Kansas, Cyclone, Emerald City, Eureka, Lost Princess, Tin Woodsman [sic], Ruby Palace, and State Fair. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:19:39 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-24-97 As for Baruch's expansion on "the magic stone", I'm afraid it will have to wait. Yesterday was Purim (a fact that Baruch probably forgot when he said he'd write more Sunday), and so we didn't have much free time. Coupled with the fact that his grandfather sent him three new CD-ROM games, which he'll have to get out of his system first, it might be some time before the sequel gets written. In re: the fairyMUCK which was supposed to have an Oz area. Forget it. My source (one of the wizards there) told me that due to a puzzlement on how to tie the different areas together in an overarching reality, they completely scrapped the format, and decided to make the theme martial arts anime! Strange leap. (Sorry about confusing Tyler and David, BTW.) XOE not a Xtian monogram? Oh. Oh, well, guess I was mistaken (I figured it was like Christos Thanatos Excelsios, or something) In re: Borders vs. BOW: not being a heavy book buyer in the past five years, I'm not really in a position to comment, but they never stopped me before. It seems to me that BOW doesn't mind if Borders sells their books, since (even though BOW only gets wholesale for them), they are reaching a much wider audience than BOW mail-order alone. If you boycott Borders to such an extent that they go belly-up (or even, they just decide that selling Oz books is a waste of shelf space), then BOW gets hurt. This would cause BOW to have to raise their prices to meet their overhead in the face of decreasing sales, or worse, to go out of business completely. No one wants that, do they? So be careful... BTW, around here, an old theater in danger of being torn down was saved, due to the efforts (read: money) of the citizens. "Little girl throws bucket of water on old ugly woman, causing fatal heart attack. Details at 11:00" --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:27:23 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-21-97 Well, at least that explains why Bastinda and Gingema are being used as opposed to Evermean, Evillene, and Lucinda... Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:36:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-22-97 Oh, Tyler, by the way, in my MS a character makes fun of Ted Turner. Maybe that will have to be cut; hopefully it won't disqualify it. It's my understanding that you can have a character say anything s/he wants about a public figure, so long as it's clear that the writer is talking through a character, not necessarily proposing a character assassination on the person. The character's insult is nowhere near as bad as a tabloid might have anyway. Scott BTW, the character inspired by the Nipsey Russell Tinman is called "The Junkman" when not being referred to by name, which he is far more often. At any rate he is a creation of Ku-Klip and definitely not the same character in the Wiz film; he looks different, and has far different origins, although he did tun a carnival and refers to himself as "yours truly," i don't think that's enough for copyright infringement, because everything else is old-time pre WWoO history. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:26:05 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-21-97 Can characters talk about Judy Garland. In one scene some guys debate which actress made the most beautiful Ozma, Nikidik mentions Shirley Temple as having played Tip, they talk about how people in the Great Outside World mostly now associate Oa with Judy Garland even though she doen't even look anyhting like the real Dorothy, etc. Hopefully the character inspired by The Wiz Tinman is different enough so as not to cause a problem. Of course, after he is introduced, Tip's thoughts are of the film, which is mentioned by name, and he practically plugs, as are some of the filmmakers. At one ponit Victor Fleming is called a happier version of Oliver Stone, and there a parodies of some filimic dialogues. Of course, the MGM film is part of American popular culture, and referenced in anything and everything without credit. I would a ssume that were Ozites to see such films, as I say they have, they would be embraced as part of their popular culture no matter how historically inaccurate they may be. Ruby Slippers are mentioned in the context of MGM and RTO, but only Silver Shoes appear. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:06:51 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 Jeremy, what about the electric light in the ceiling of the Wizard's chamber? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:02:06 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 A Fresh Wind in the Willows was a sort of sequel, in which Toad became infatuated with biplanes. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:01:25 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 I know MGM's film had the Sawhorsse, but what others had characters from Land, except the Baum films? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:13:58 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 No, I meant a Fuddle, not a Flutterbudget. First of all, the chapel is in a previously undisclosed location, not in the Emerald City. Much of what goes on in these places is intentionally anti-Ozzy, though this is not portrayed as something particularly strange. No prayer is ever actually spoken, anyway. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:51:04 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-15-97 The $12.95 Return to Oz video is duplicated in the poor quality LP mode, which saves Disney abut 37 cents per tape. If you've noticed, Fox, MGM, Columbia, Warner and several other companies have been releasing many tapes in the highest quality standard play mode in the $7-10 range. A big corp. like Disney ought to be ashamed. I've tried for previously viewed copies but they're always damaged, so there don't appear to be any really good copies available, just cheapskate shabby ones. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:42:54 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Craig Noble: Congratulations on your impending baby! Ideas for Oz color decorations -- do you have the Books of Wonder Oz Collector catalogue? That offers copies of Dick Martin's map-of-Oz poster, which is very attractive, and also some other non-movie Oz decorations. (Sun-catcher Oz ornaments based on Denslow illos to hang in a window, for instance.) And the IWOC sells copies of the Martin-Haff maps of Oz and the Oz continent. You might also buy up spare copies of some of the back issues of the "Bugle" and put up the color covers. For something more elaborate, if you have a camera and a close-up lens (or if you have a friend who has them and would take some shots for you), you could take photos of your favorite color illos, and at not much expense put the ordinary-size prints up as a frieze, or at rather more expense get enlargements made to put up individually. If you've attended past Oz-cons, do you have photos of some of the more attractive costumes or displays? For the kind of expense involved in enlargements of photos, though, maybe you'd prefer to buy spare copies of some BoW or Club reprints and remove the color plates to put up, discarding the text. For that matter, you could photo-copy and enlarge a bunch of b&w illos, and color them yourself (water-color, set of color pencils, set of color pens, crayons, whatever). While the book illos are more elaborately drawn than the "toy book" figures, they're still line drawings, with near clear black lines separating off the areas, and can be colored by us amateur-types. Gili Bar-Hillel: I don't think "The Exiles" by Bradbury is in "R is for Rocket" -- I'll try to remember to check where it is. Bradbury has a lot of Oz references scattered through his work. His "Golden Apples of the Sun" is dedicated "to Narda, daughter of Glinda, the Good Witch of the South" (wording may not be exact). I've generally assumed that Narda was an Oz-loving friend of his who admired Glinda, but maybe he knows something we don't know about Glinda. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:29:32 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Serena: Ozcot is in Hollywood. Baum eventually moved there, but I don't think he lived at Ozcot when he wrote _Dorothy and the Wizard_. He had probably been to the Hotel Coronado, however. Jeremy: I don't think that there are different rates for old and new subscribers to the Bugle. Gingemma is the WWE, Bastinda is the WWW, and Locasta is the GWN. Chris: I looked at your web page, and it seems fine. (I'm being pretty brief today, aren't I?) -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:23:52 -0600 From: wizofoz@okway.okstate.edu (Trisha Gedon) Subject: ozzy digest Craig Noble-- Congratulations to you and your wife on the upcoming budle of joy. Sorry I can't help you with decorating ideas, but I do have one piece of advice. Whatever you do, make sure it's washable! Take this from the mother of a 21-month-old. No matter what it is, it will need to be washed, wiped or cleaned at one time or another! - Trisha Gedon ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:44:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-24-97 About Dorothy's accent in Ozma of Oz, I always thought that as Baum was well ensconced in Chicago by the time he wrote this, he might have felt inclined to portray Dorothy as a "hick," after spending so much time as a city dweller. Apparently he realized that his portrayal of Dorothy in this manner was totally inappropriate. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:05:58 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 Tyler, Thank you for proving my entry is not contradictory to SBM!!!!!!! Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:10:22 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-18-97 Chris-- That so called soundtrack CD is the cast album for the play, which I already have, and I enjoy a great deal. There is, however, no CD of the motion picture soundtrack with Michael Jackson, Nipsey Rusell, Diana Ross, Quincy Jones et. al., just an LP, which I do not have. I wonder if Disney will reissue that old Songs from the Wizard of Oz LP on a CD. They're reissuing stuff like Mickey Mouse Disco, so it must be a copyright thing. I'm more interested in the Adair/Baker things since the Angelica Ortiz film uses one of them. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:57:48 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-17-97 It should be said that since Murder came first, SBM contradicts it, and since the Shaggy Man says Dorothy, it ought to be easy. Also, Robert R. Pattrick's Unexplored Territory in Oz says it should be considered nearly canonical. Of course, my novel is derived from Murder, and if it wins, I'm not sure how it could fit on the HACC. Of course, they might not let it win because of this. But I have been working on my contest novel well before SBM was ever published. No offense to you, Melody, I am planning to read it after I finish, when I have some extra money and can buy it. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:58:41 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-24-97 Craig: there, I guess I'd make giant cutouts of various personnozzages from the books (I'm like you; the movie holds little charm for me). Tyler: Interesting explanation of why witches do what they do. Of course, not all witches are made equal . . . (That is, it stands to reason that not all witches are formed in the same way, just as not all people have the same color skin.) By the way, I think BoW probably has a lot of money already, judging by the quality of the mailings I receive from them. It's other publishers that need money (and I'm not picking on their quality, merely pointing out the obvious). Serena: Watch your comments; there might BE some "liquid Haitians" on the Digest, for all we know! Gili: Nice webpage! I still think a movie adaptation should have some respect (be somewhat faithful) to the book on which it is based. Call me a purist. That's all for today, --Jeremy Steadman, Oz Digester At Large ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:32:41 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Webs and such: As far as I can tell, Chris's web page checks out in both Netscape and MSIE. Speaking of web pages, I have once again redesigned my web site. I have decided to remove the frames because, even though they may look cool, it just took too long to download and size them. Thew new look is faster and with navigation bars, going form one place to another on my site is easier than ever. Also, the reviews of _A Viking in Oz_ are finally posted, one by Aaron and one by me. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tylerjones/ Jeremy: you asked about this yesterday. Here, as far as I can tell, is the complete list of names given to the various witches in and out of the FF and in Laumer, but not Farmer, since the name he gave for the GWN has never been mentioned on the digest and the other two witches he mentioned do not really have counterparts in the "real" Oz, as far as we know... GWN : Locasta, Tattypoo WWN : (Old) Mombi GWE : Abatha WWE : Bastinda, Nessarose GWW : Gloma WWW : Gingemma, Elphaba, Allidap GWS : Glinda WWS : ????? Note that this list does not include those witches who are not considered to be one of "THE (Good/Wicked) Witch of (Compass Point)". Craig: I'm not sure if your plea for a warning was serious or not, but I'll give a few hints. _Barnstormer_ is clearly not historically accurate to the FF. Also, it paints a very different Oz than most people are familiar with. To paraphrase one of my high school teachers, "It has a lot of realities". There is a high degree of violence, adult themes, and some sexuality. IMHO, though, it is not at the pronographic leve, any more than Laumer is. When it is considered on the quality of writing alone, it is excellent. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:20:54 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Nathan - "It may be that Dorothy's experiences with the WWW made her terrified of witches." This is the classical excuse - I have had a bad experience with "X(1)" so that justifies my behavior toward X(N). Sorry, not in my book. I think we have had enough of this everywhere. Craig - Not a chance - I liked Barnstormer! Tyler - I think in PA it had to do with great location on University Ave. and no other chain book store in the area. Sigh. Jeremy - "By the way, what makes you say some Digesters (sorry) are "on drugs"? Nothing now, the phase seems to have passed. :) Well, tomorrow I report for jury duty. Sigh. Dutifully, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Mar 97 11:02:34 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FWIW, I make *one* MGM reference in _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_ -- Locasta comments on the MGM film's "Historical Inaccuracies"... Scott wrote: >I know MGM's film had the Sawhorsse, but what others had characters from >Land, except the Baum films? Well, both Jack Pumpkinhead and the Gump are in _Return to Oz_. The animated _Journey Back to Oz_ has Jack P., Mombi, and a character called "Woodenhead" whom a team of Ozian and Evian Philosophers could *argue* is the Sawhorse, although he (she?) more closely resembles Merry Go-Round. The ubiquitous Jack also appears in the 1/2-hour TV special _Dorothy in the Land of Oz_ (a.k.a. _Thanksgiving in the Land of Oz_). That's the ones I know of. ( So far as I know, the Wogglebug has never appeared in *anything*, on small or big screen! Wogglebug: I protest! :) ) Where does the Sawhorse appear in the MGM film??? Tyler wrote: >you asked about this yesterday. Here, as far as I can tell, is the >complete list of names given to the various witches ... I'm afraid you switched Bastinda and Gingemma around...Here's how the list should look (I've also added a couple other names, including my own, and the relevent authors for each name): GWN : Locasta (Baum/Hardenbrook), Tattypoo (Thompson) WWN : Old Mombi (Baum) GWE : Abatha (Shanower) WWE : Gingemma (Volkov/Laumer), Nessarose (Maguire), Old Sand-Eye (Hardenbrook) GWW : Gloma (Thompson) WWW : Bastinda (Volkov/Laumer), Elphaba (Maguire), Allidap (???), Old Snarl-Spats (Hardenbrook) GWS : Glinda (Baum) WWS : Singra (Cosgrove-Payes) Note that in the case of the GWN, the two names actually represent two separate people, Tattypoo being really Orin, whereas Locasta is really Locasta. :) Also note that Shanower also had a Wicked Witch of the South in his _Enchanted Apples of Oz_, but this one's connection to Singra is very murky...I accept Rachel Cosgrove-Payes' Singra as *THE* WWS, for the *highly objective* reason that I like _Wicked Witch of Oz_ better than _E. Apples_. :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 26, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:21:18 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Oz CD-ROMs 1) Warren, not all Mac people have money. Me, for example. (Alas! I've already found the vast majority of the Oz books I'm likely to find used! ): ) 2) I still need authors for a number of books listed on one of IWOC's pages. (Read: I need some info so I can irritate the local librarians further since I've run out of titles in the HACC to ILL.) Any help would be greatly appreciated. And the authorless books are: Adventure of the Rye Balloonist Along the Yellow Brick Road in Search... Annotated Adventure of the Rye Balloonist Dorothy and Green Gobbler of Oz Peter Pumpkin in Wonderland Pinkies and the Winkies Wind & The Wizard The Orange Knight of Oz The Adventure of a Mustard Jar 3) Scott, I wouldn't be surprised if the Nonesticans have movies (in Lurline's Machine they have technology more advanced than that) but their attitude towards the Outside-Worlder Oz movies may not be so kind. In particular, they may find the MGM movie offensive because it considers Oz to be just a dream. Other mistakes in that movie may appear laughable. Boq: Hey! The vast majority of Munchkins are nowhere near that short! Or perhaps not so laughable. Which reminds me, in something I wrote several years ago called "Dinky in the Kingdom of Dreams" (which was allegedly based on _The Woozy of Oz_, but in reality _Woozy_, was (after severe modification) based on it) the Hammerheads (led by M.C. Hammerhead) are particularly irritated that they were not portrayed at all in the MGM film, leading to them to become antagonists in "Dinky" so that they could get publicity. 4) Ruth, Glinda having a daughter doesn't seem improbable at all. Assuming that the undying witches are more or less normal psychologically, then many of them would have married and had children. In Lurline's Machine, Mombi and Gingemma definitely having had children and none have been singled out as eternal spinsters. (Though with her personality, I wouldn't be surprised if no man wanted to marry Bastinda unless she was much nicer in the early days.) The only thing that puzzles me is what happened to their husbands; I suppose that either the early longevity magic didn't work on males, or perhaps longevitization required the practice of magic above and beyond the abilities of the Witches' husbands. 5) Dave, I have assumed that Shannower's Wicked Witch of the South is THE Wicked Witch of the South, if for no other reason than the title is applied to her. Singra, if I remember correctly, is just a Quadling (or if I remember the story right and use some terminology I invented, Gwording) witch who is an opponent of Glinda. (Though I have to agree with you that _Wicked Witch_ is better than _Enchanted Apples_. As much as I admire Shannower's work, his graphic novels compress the plot too much for my taste. Maybe he'll be inspired by the Special Edition of the Star Wars trilogy and expand them out to a more comfortable length...) 6) And now for my latest review... Unidentified character: Run for your lives! Have no fear! I actually liked the book. Unidentified: Say what?! ***WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILER*** Bungle and the Magic Lantern of Oz by Greg Gick This is probably the best non-FF book I've read in a long time. It deals with what happens when someone tries to get his hands on a dangerous magic artifact which has been stored in Dr. Pipt's attic, with Eureka, Toto, a Macaroni Penguin, and a decidedly nonhistorical Airworm called Yartii caught in the middle and trying to save the day. The writing is thoroughly interesting, with such phraseology as "For a time, they tried replacing them [Bungle's pink brains] with transparent ones, but something went haywire: the fifth time she tried to drown herself in a bowl of lima beans they had to put the original ones back." occuring regularly, and the puns which occur make a lot more sense in context than Thompson's or Neill's (e.g., the Juice ex Machina, which Bungle makes Toto drink, creating the Macaroni Penguin, who is meant to save them from a chimera). On top of all this, Mr. Gick has done his homework so that everything that happens is plausible in Oz's world so that, unlike some non-FF books I've read, this one definitely belongs in the HACC. Three and a half stars. (I would have given it four, but the ending could have been better.) ***END WARNING*** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:56:21 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 Craig: Do you know anyone who wants to crochet or knit an afghan for the baby? A pastel version of the Oz map shouldn't be too hard to design, or just use the four country colors with a green OZ crocheted or embroidered in the center. I did an afghan years ago and used yarn to crochet figures of the fab four on it. Since my color scheme was yellow and white, I used only those colors on the blanket instead of the Oz colors, but the Dorothy, TW, Scarecrow, and Lion made it quite Ozzy. I haven't checked craft stores in years, but there frequently are Oz patterns for things that could well go in a child's room. Another notion: Make a transparency of a favorite black and white illustration. Project the transparency onto plywood or wallboard. Trace the illo, then jigsaw the figure you've created, paint it, spray it with several layers of clear Krylon (for washability--that *is* important!) and you'll have a wall hangup. Make a bunch for a freize. Above all, enjoy this time. It's one of the very best of your life. Savor the happy anticipation. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:53:59 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Scott: I know that Evillene was the WWW from "The Wiz," but who are Evermean and Lucinda? Are they also from "The Wiz?" Jeremy: You're a purist. :) Bear: I didn't say that Dorothy's experience with the WWW _excused_ her behavior toward Notta and Mombi, merely that it might have _explained_ it. Dave: It might have been the manager of the "Wizard of Oz" play, rather than Baum himself, who named Locasta. IIRC, this manager was the one who named Pastoria. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:38:09 -0600 (CST) From: glassman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 Jeremy Steadman: >By the way, I think BoW probably has a lot of money already, judging >by the quality of the mailings I receive from them. It's other >publishers that need money (and I'm not picking on their quality, >merely pointing out the obvious). What an interesting assumption! On the contrary, Books of Wonder is a small company dedicated to doing everything it does very well. Quality production can be done economically. And as far as a publishing house, we are probably one of the smallest professional publishing houses around. Not looking for sympathy here, but PLEASE remember that we do indeed need the support of each and every Oz fan for our publications. As the mailings we do - well, I'm very flattered by your comments. The truth is that by most mail order company standards they considered rather "down and dirty" - not at all indicative of a company with "a lot of money." In fact, I long for the day when we can afford to do our mailing pieces in color - but right now we don't have the money! - Peter Glassman Books of Wonder ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:57:47 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz Working on our "Great Oz Links" page, and I need to know who all is linked to us that we may return the favor asap (preferably via private E-Mail with full URL, as I will be forwarding it to our webpage designer). So far, we have already added or have been working on adding Dave H., Bill W., Eric G., Jim W., IWOC, Nathan D., Gili, Wendy's WWoO Page (cute music box), Tyler J., and... I know I'm forgetting someone. Probably lots of you! Apologies if I have slighted you or your webpage. I will have more links up shortly. We are at: http://members.aol.com/OzBucket/webpage/home.htm If you are still working on your page, or simply aren't going to offer one, Awww, too bad. But maybe you've seen a cool page you particularly want Oz fans to know about? Let me know, and I'll check it out and get in touch with whoever I need to. Thanks! ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:21:29 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Gripes and Grumbles: There is an internet site called http://www.wizard-of-oz.com but it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH OZ! :-( Scott: I'm not sure. I guess that it would depend on the sensitivities of the contest judges, although the Oz books are generally not known for lampooning or otherwise satirizing specific people (with a few exceptions). You may be skirting a fine line here. The whole purpose of the contest is to celebrate the written world of Oz, so I don't know how much the judges would accept references about the movie, even if the plot were not movie-based. It sounds to me like you are suggesting a book that compares and contrasts the book and the movie. IMHO, while this would be fine for a non-fictional work, it goes against the spirit of the contest and would not work for a story. From what I have heard, at the time Baum was writing the early books, it was considered fashionable to women to speak in baby-talk, and Baum simply emulated that in his writings. I do not know if this is true or not. _Murder vs. SBM_: As far as the HACC goes at least, Chris and I do not apply the senority principle when juding the comparative accuracy of non-FF books. That is, _Murder_ does not overrule _SBM_ simply because it came first. As it turns out, they do not contradict each other. If they did, then we would kick out the one that, overall, is least accurate to all others, not the one that is youngest or that we liked the least. I am sure that Scott's novel will fit on the HACC. Witches: AAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH! I double-checked to make sure that Gingemma and Bastinda were NOT switched! Thanks for noticing, Dave! :-) Dave's list from yesterday is the correct one. FYI, "Allidap" is the name given by the Wiz Kids of Oz, in gentle fun of their teacher, Serafin Padilla. Southern Witches: Current HACC theory is that the unnamed witch in _E. Apples_ was an assistant of sorts to Sringa, and that the Wogglebugs knowledge of history is just a tad garbled. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:50:06 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls We are showing our age Ruth but wasn't "Princess Narda" the girl friend of Mandrake The Magician? Well, I get to spend the next 10 days trying a carpal tunnel case! Type gently friends. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:51:22 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 3/25 Digest, Scott points out that ... However, the lesser quality of Long Play mode is much better than the No Play mode of no tape at all. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:25:33 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest I received two copies of the 3-22 Digest and have seen nothing since. If this is because circumstances have prevented your putting one out, I understand and it's no problem, but if there have been Digests since then and I haven't gotten them, I wanted to let you know there's something wrong somewhere. I'll be leaving home in half an hour and won't be back until late Friday night. FWIW, I mailed in my entry for the Centennial Contest yesterday. It ended up at 51,500 words without any more padding than the average FF book. (I'd love to talk about it, but _pas devant les juges_...) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:45:36 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Dave Hardenbrook: You mentioned Jack Pumpkinhead and the Gump in "Return to Oz" -- could also have mentioned Ozma. And for all the "Land" characters, there's the videotape of the Minneapolis Children's Theater Company's production. I don't actually remember if that includes the Wogglebug (I don't have the videotape, but saw the show), but think it might. Steve Teller and others on Dorothy's reaction to Notta's witch impersonation: Back when the Digest was discussing liquidation, it was suggested that water does not melt all witches (as various people have noted, Glinda doesn't seem to worry about water) but may affect specifically only wicked witches, withered by long malice. That still raises ethical problems, as a specific witch with wicked intentions may (for reasons of prudence) not be going to do any wicked acts. But Notta, in his witch impersonation, is running full-speed at Dorothy and gesturing wildly, and those are factors that should be considered, too, in Dorothy's reaction. It really would look as if she's dealing with a wicked witch who is about to do something wicked to her. (And she has maybe 30 seconds to decide.) After all, as various people have pointed out, if she's wrong in thinking that the apparent witch is a witch, she won't have done any more harm than dousing someone. (Oz being what it is, she doesn't need to worry about producing a fatal heart attack if it's just an old woman with a weak heart.) If RPT was actually assuming that only wicked witches are meltable (and she may have been -- as others have pointed out, Gloma does not mention having any fear of water), then Dorothy doesn't even have to worry that she might be melting a good witch. Gili Bar-Hillel: "The Exiles" is in "The Illustrated Man." // You're right that a completely faithful adaptation of a narrative would make a poor drama, but I think it's reasonable for people who have enjoyed a book to ask not only, "Is this a good film in its own terms?" but "Is it reasonably faithful to the original?" There's a special extra pleasure when a film version does actually manage to be acceptable both on its own terms as a film and as a believable version of the original. (It doesn't happen very often, but the "Little Women" with Winona Ryder and some of the versions of Jane Austen's novels come close. And I suppose "Gone with the Wind" is faithful to its original, but I don't much admire either the book or the movie.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:03:24 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 Ruth: "The Exiles" is in _R is for Rocket_, at least that's one of the places where it is. I think it's also in _The Illustrated Man_, but I am not sure of that. Unfortuantely, this was never filmed for the TV series. The I believe the Oz reference was excluded from the filming of Usher II. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:05:13 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 Tyler, isn't WWS called Singra? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:15:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 I was referring to versions of _Wizard_ not having those characters. Anyway, Wogglebug is in _L. Frank Baum's The Marvelous Land of Oz_ (1981, John Clark Donahue and John Driver) portrayed by Tom Dunn. He also appears in _Christmas in Oz_ (1996, Bert Ring). I think he also appears briefly in _Oz_/_Dorothy in the Land of Oz_ [etc.] (1980, Fred Wolf, Charles Swenson, Takashi Abe), but I am not certain. The Sawhorse is in the MGM film, appearing in the background of Nick's forest. I was not aware that nomes appear in the film, I'll have to check that out. Also Wogglebug is in _The Wonderful Land of Oz_ (1968, Barry Mahon), which I am dying to see, but it's never had any (legal) release on video. A guy says he's going to get a copy for me. Fortunately I did not have to pay him in advance. He wanted $30, and was apparently not marking any up for himsel, since he said that was what his friend would duplicate it for. His friend also can copy _Oz_/_20th Century Oz_ (1976, Chris Lofven), which incidentally was AAN producer Jane Scott's (_Shine_, Scott Hicks) first film. She was the associate producer. I've never seen this either. Scott "This is my snake skin jacket. It's a symbol of my individuality, and my belief in the right to personal freedom." --Sailor Ripley, _Wild at Heart_, a film by David Lynch ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:24:40 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 Steven-- There is no religion in my novel. I just wanted to clear that up. It was my understanding Baum wanted this left out of his books, as with romance, because children do not understand it. The things which border on this are as follows: A character who frequently makes remarks like "Oh, God," generally in vain. A character who says he makes mist-cakes second only to God's. The Bible, Qu'ran, Bhagavad-Gita, etc. on Ozian library shelves. A church in a Quadling ghost town. A prayer chapel in a thought institution, which a character enters There are no words spoken, and the scene is entirely ambiguous and can be read in any way, because it is told entirely from an observatory point of view. There is no religious iconography in the chapel or anywhere else, except that there is a cemetery by the old church, because whren it was in use there was still death in Oz. Anyway, it's going in the mail Friday, so I'm making final changes now. Despite mentions of Narnia, this tale is no allegory, and looking over the DOTWIZ article in the new Bugle, and having gone over the manuscript twice, it's far Ozzier and nowhere near as dark as that, which I feared it might be. It came in at 326 pages in MS, 262 typed, as of now. I'd better not say too much more, should I. I'm giving away my anonymity. if I have not already done so. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:26:40 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 Tyler--I talked to a guy who loves reading Farmer, and he thought Barnstormer was pornographic. I think I found the part he was talking about too, though I've been too busy with my novel to actually read it after I finally manged to get a copy. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:34:03 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 Did everyone see Walter Murch finally pick up two Oscars the other night? That was great. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:32:42 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 Jeremy-- It's interesting you mention rthat about purism. My film prof was talking about how Spielberg's film of _Jurassic Park_ is more similar to _Schindler's List_ than it is to the novel, because in his versions of JP and SL, they both deal with a wealthy business man trying to help people: one in a silly way, one in a meaningful way. In Crichton's novel Hammond was as greedy as the rest of them. The point is that directors take the artistic creation and make it their own, and that should not always be frowned upon, it auteurism, which is a little bit like how I tackled Baum's Oz while stillbeing pretty much orthodox in its setup, although I didn't let the colors of the various countries saturate much more than they had in WWoO. Of course, Dr. Bingham doesn't really like Spielberg, but he's probably the best known example of an auteur. You can tell I really want to film my novel myself, can't you. I know how I want it to look and everything. I'm a film minor, so I think I could do it better than anyone else. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 15:11:21 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DOES THE INTERNET NEED WINDING???: Not just David, but NO ONE on AOL seems to be receiving the Digest!!! Also, for much of the day the 26th, Delphi *refused* to send any messages (that's why today's Digest is so late getting out)...Could the Internet be choked with Academy Award-related traffic??? Tik-Tok: Or--May-be--the--Int-er-net--has--run--down--and--needs--wind-ing... :) BARNSTORMER: An "informed source" tells me that the reason _Barnstormer_ is called "pornographic" (a term open to interpretation) is because it contains vivid descriptions of Glinda being er--um--"In the Raw"... For Glinda's own peace of mind after she heard about this, I did a search of the Web and the USENET Newsgroups and verified for her that there are *NO* faked pictures of her posted to alt.binaries.pictures.celebrities.nude or anywhere else...The Ozites all seem to have been spared that "honor". :) :) LITTLE WOMEN: I agree with you, Ruth, that the Winona Ryder version is the most faithful, even though my mom thinks she's too beautiful for the supposedly homely Jo. IIRC, the other two versions do things like always show Amy as nearly grown-up, even in the early parts, and none but the Winona version has *anything* in them about Jo inheriting Plumfield (Aunt March is still alive and kicking at the end of the June Allison version), or her starting the school with Professor Bhear. FWIW, I *like* Winona as Jo -- IMHO no one can say "Christopher Columbus!" or "Genius burns!" like she can! :) BTW, for all you astronomy buffs: Note that the names of "Io" (Jupiter's volcanic and most dynamic moon) and "Jo" (the March family's most dynamic member, who even publishes her early works in "The Daily Volcano") are indentical and interchangeable in Greek! (This is what Douglas Adams calls a "Mind-Bogglingly Improbable Coincidence") :) :) :) BAUM ON ROMANCE: If Baum's assertion that children "don't understand" romance is correct, then there goes 3/4 of the fairy tales, not to mention _Little Women_ (and Alcott's equally good Eight Cousins/Rose in Bloom saga)! (Of course as with "pornography", many people have different interpretations of what "romance" constitutes...Some equate "romance" with "pornography"!!!) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 27, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:45:03 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-26-97 >Bear: Dorothy's action toward Notta seems to reflect Thompson's own attitude toward ugly women--especially ugly *old* women. Look how Thompson herself tried to do away with the elderly Good Witch of the North! Until our own David decided she deserved a resurrection as much as Tip.... Thompson should have been longsighted enough to realize she herself would one day join the ranks of the elderly if she lived long enough--and she did... Now, would SHE have wanted a little girl to dash her with a bucket of water--or assume she was bad--simply because she had grown old? :-) :-) David Hardenbrook: We liked the modern "Little Women" at our house, too. It depicted the period so well, you'd think the producers had taken a time machine back to the Victorian era and filmed it there. Even the fabrics looked like they were the natural fibers available at that time--I've seen more than one so-called "period piece" where some of the "period costumes" looked suspiciously like polyester... Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:13:48 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 3/26 Digest, Aaron Adelman asks for the author of _Dorothy and the Green Gobbler of Oz_. I have a copy, obtained from Scholastic Book Services in 1984/5. The author is Romeo Muller. The little book was reviewed by Rob Roy MacVeigh in the Autumn 1984 _Bugle_. Also in the same posting, Aaron speculates what on what happened to the hypothetical husbands of the long-lived witches. Well, they probably got turned into toads, the third or fourth time the toilet seat was left up. :-) And in the same issue, Ruth Berman says, ... Yes, the Wogglebug is there, looking much as in the Neill illustrations. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:36:19 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 Dave: Thanks for resending the March 23-24 and March 25 Digests. I already had the March 22 Digest. Today is Thursday the 27th. I haven't received a March 26 Digest. Was there one? If so, please send it. I assume the latest Digests have been short because we AOLers have been out of the loop. It's certainly strange. I'm not sure whether it's AOL's fault because I'm having no trouble receiving e-mail from other systems, including the Digest when you send it individually. I'm not enough of an expert to explain the problem or solution. Ruth: Great ideas for the nursery! I'd especially like to find those sun-catcher Oz ornaments. I'll have to see if _The Oz Collector_ is still available. Rather than buying back issues of the _Bugle_, I may make color photocopies of the 25 or so that I already have. _The Oz Toybook_ still seems like an easy solution, but I think the drawings are of lesser quality than most of Neill's work. Fortunately, there's plenty of flat art to work with. The question is how to reproduce it. Bear, Jeremy, et al: I'm glad to see that people are more enthusiastic about _Barnstormer_ than _Wicked_. I'm looking forward to reading it. Book of the Moment: Have we started discussed _The Marvelous Land of Oz_ yet? Here are a few observations to get things rolling: 1. The plot seems much more haphazard than I had remembered. For example: Tip, the Scarecrow & co. escape the Emerald City to seek help from the Tin Woodman, but then they go back to the City with no real plan. All they really accomplish is getting trapped again, this time with more friends to share in the misery. Also, the Woggle Bug wasn't so smart to wish the Gump repaired following the crash in the Jackdaws nest. Nor would it have been terribly efficient to use a pill to wish the Gump to fly in the right direction to Glinda's palace. The silver wishing pills *could* have been used to restore the Scarecrow to the throne. Of course the story would have ended right there, and Tip might never have been transformed back to Ozma. It's been discussed many times before how powerful magic gets conveniently forgotten by Oz characters so as to keep the stories moving. 2. I had forgotten that Ozma was originally a blonde! I think it's been said in this forum that Neill needed to change her hair color so as to differentiate her from Dorothy when they're drawn together. This wouldn't have been a problem, though, if Dorothy had stayed a brunette as in _Wizard_. I happen to like Ozma as a brunette and Dorothy as a blonde, but that's probably because I'm used to them. 3. Notice the illustration of Glinda with cleavage. 4. Is it ever explained in later Oz books why Jack's head didn't spoil? I don't remember. Maybe his fears were simply unfounded. Perhaps the Powder of Life rendered his head unspoilable. 5. As in _Wizard_, bread and cheese seem to be popular foods for travelers. I suppose they're nourishing and have a relatively long shelf life (even if they do get a little stale and moldy!). Sorry so long, Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:35:09 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 and 3-26-97 Scott: Interesting how movies and books mix. Also, sorry to keep doing this, but my memory is atrocious--what do you mean by "what about the electric light in the Wizard's chambers"? Nathan: What I meant by the "new subscriber rate" was that I remember paying five dollars more when I subscribed to the Bugle the first time, and a lower rate thereafter. Peter G.: I beg your pardon; I did not mean to imply a falsehood (about BoW having lots of money). I have been out of contact with IWOZ for a few years, and therefore out of contact with BoW, and that is the source of my error. Oh, and you're welcome--but my comments were sincere, by the way. Bear: Please let us know when you see the light at the end of the carpal tunnel (sorry; my mother has that problem, and she didn't like that joke either) --Jeremy Steadman, Oz fan at large. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:27:18 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Aaron: I agree with your comments on _Bungle and the Magic Lantern_, but I never understood the significance of the name "Macaroni Penguin." Is this some kind of joke? On the Wogglebug's Stage Career: I've never seen the insect in a movie, but you probably were aware that he was the title character of Baum's play, which was based on _Land_, and which flopped. Scott: There is a church in the China Country, and Cap'n Bill mentions God in _Magic_, so your mentions of religion might not be all that un-Ozzy. I don't know about the mentions of Narnia, however. The Narnia books are probably still in copyright. On the Wicked Witch of the South: Eric Shanower once expressed his own theory on the two WWs of the South. He speculated that Singra and the witch in _Enchanted Apples_ were sisters, who were in competition with one another. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:25:29 +0100 From: Bill Wright Subject: FW: baum poetry To: "'daveh47@delphi.com'" Here is an interesting question I recently received. If anyone can answer it please email Jay directly since he is not on the Digest. However, the answer might also be of interest to many Digesters. Bill in Ozlo >---------- >From: Henderson, Jay[SMTP:henjay@dunwoody.tec.mn.us] >Sent: 26. mars 1997 07:22 >To: 'piglet@halcyon.com' >Subject: baum poetry > >Dear Sir or Madam, as the case may be; > >I have recently come into possession of a book. ( and my!, what >wonderful stories have begun with that phrase...) It is a Reilly & >Britton Co. book of poetry, entitled 'Sweethearts Always', copyright >1907, "selected by" Janet Madison and illustrated by Fred. (sic) S. >Manning. The book includes poetry by the Brownings, Kipling, Thomas >Moore, Shelley: all the usual suspects - but there is also one poem by >L. Frank Baum (and somewhat risque for the time it is, too) entitled >'Her Answer'. It is a very well done book - light green cloth with an >illustrated, padded medallion, gilt lettering and the top edge of the >pages are also gilt, with the other two edges being uncut. > >I don't know if you are the right person to inquire of - and I hope you >don't resent the intrusion - but I've been pursuing Baumania for some >time, and I've never heard of this one. If you could only return >direction to a resource that would give me some knowledge about this >particular item, I would be very appreciative. > >Thank You for Your Time, > >J Henderson >henjay@dunwoody.tec.mn.us > ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:27:09 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Aaron S. Adelman: Yes, it seems reasonable enough that Glinda might have a daughter, but perhaps implausible that she would be so little involved with the kid or with the kid's father that no mention was made of them. (The father might, as you suggest, be dead, but he might be alive and just not living with Glinda -- or he might even be living with her, but taking so little interest in Oz business that no one mentions him. Perhaps a Quadling farmer, or one of Snow's handsome young giants from "Murder," or one of the barons from the Land of Barons?) Bear comments that Princess Narda was the name of the Mandrake the Magician's girlfriend, so perhaps Narda thought Dorothy's America sounded interesting and went to live there? Scott Hutchins: I saw Barry Mahon's "Land of Oz" when it came out. Don't remember what it does with the Wogglebug, but do remember that it's a dreadful production, with everyone speaking as mechanically as Tik-Tok. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 28, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:09:36 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 I have not really been away for the past few days, the electricity had been turned off in the building where I work as they were putting in new wiring. So I have several Digests to respond to, which I will do in reverse order so that I don't respond to things that have already been answered. > > 4. Is it ever explained in later Oz books why Jack's head didn't spoil? I > don't remember. Maybe his fears were simply unfounded. Perhaps the Powder > of Life rendered his head unspoilable. Actually Jack's head did spoil. In (IBIW) ROAD TO OZ there is found a graveyard of Jack's former heads. However, everytime he but on a new head it seemed to retain all his old memories. That's why he lives in the midst of a pumpkin patch. > > > Craig Noble > > Nathan: > What I meant by the "new subscriber rate" was that I remember paying > five dollars more when I subscribed to the Bugle the first time, and > a lower rate thereafter. > > --Jeremy Steadman, Oz fan at large. Jeremy: There is no new subscriber rate. However, the new (as of 1997) rate for all members over 17 is $25, those under 17 can still be members for $15. There is no longer a special rate for 1st class postage. I hope these new rates do not make you decide not to return to the fold. > > From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff > > Aaron: > I agree with your comments on _Bungle and the Magic Lantern_, but I never > understood the significance of the name "Macaroni Penguin." Is this some > kind of joke? > The Macaroni Penguin is a real type of bird living in the Antarctic. If you wish to see one check In BUNGLE . . . the penguin is literally made of macaroni. Now I'll check the earlier Digests. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:49:22 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-26-97 > Not looking for sympathy here, but PLEASE remember that we do indeed need > the support of each and every Oz fan for our publications. > > As the mailings we do - well, I'm very flattered by your comments. > > - Peter Glassman > Books of Wonder > Dear Peter. I AM deeply appreciative of the work BoW has done, both alone and with Morrow. If I disagree with your judgments on some occasions (we all have differences), I think it is far better to have tried and done 80% successfully than not to have tried. > > Scott: > I'm not sure. I guess that it would depend on the sensitivities of the > contest judges, although the Oz books are generally not known for lampooning > or otherwise satirizing specific people (with a few exceptions). > Scott: There is a children's book entitled ARTHUR WRITES A STORY, in which Arthur writes a story about how he got his dog and then kept changing it to please everyone who read it. He ended up with a country western song about how he get a pet striped elephant on the planet Smellafin. The final version pleased no one. The moral is you should write the story you want to write, not the one you think will please anyone. Perhaps it will not win the contest (the competition is very strong), but it will be YOUR story. As a college professor of almost thirty years experience, the last thing I want is a student trying to second-quess what _I_ want. > > FWIW, I mailed in my entry for the Centennial Contest yesterday. It ended up > at 51,500 words without any more padding than the average FF book. (I'd love > to talk about it, but _pas devant les juges_...) > > David Hulan Danke Schone. BTW all others. Next Monday is March 31, postmark deadline. I'm looking forward to a lot of good (and anonymous) reading. > > AlsoWogglebug is in _The Wonderful Land of Oz_ (1968, Barry Mahon), which I > am dying to see, but it's never had any (legal) release on video. A guy > says he's going to get a copy for me. Fortunately I did not have to pay > him in advance. He wanted $30, and was apparently not marking any up for > himsel, since he said that was what his friend would duplicate it for. I fear you are in for a disappointment. The film is wretched. > His friend also can copy _Oz_/_20th Century Oz_ (1976, Chris Lofven), > which incidentally was AAN producer Jane Scott's (_Shine_, Scott Hicks) > first film. She was the associate producer. I've never seen this either. > Nor have I. Could we get a review of it after you see it. I do have the sound track album. > Scott > > "This is my snake skin jacket. It's a symbol of my individuality, and my > belief in the right to personal freedom." --Sailor Ripley, _Wild at > Heart_, a film by David Lynch Apparently snakes don't have a right to personal freedom (or even life). I think Lynch took this from Tennessee Williams' ORPHEUS DESCENDING (aka DUEL OF ANGELS, filmed as THE FUGITIVE KIND.) > > I'd better not say too much more, should I. I'm giving away my > anonymity. if I have not already done so. > > Scott > Why do you want to do that? > > Did everyone see Walter Murch finally pick up two Oscars the > other night? That was great. > > Scott > Did everyone see the two hour special Biography of Judy Garland on A&E last Sunday? John Fricke was the co-producer. > You can tell I really want to film my novel myself, can't you. I know > how I want it to look and everything. I'm a film minor, so I think I > could do it better than anyone else. > --Scott > Of course you do, that's only natural. Probably every author whose work as been filmed felt the same way. > > > (Of course as with "pornography", many people have different interpretations > of what "romance" constitutes...Some equate "romance" with "pornography"!!!) > > -- Dave Lewis Caroll once wrote a story entitled "Novelty and Romancement" which I recommend to all who doubt the importance of spacing. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:56:26 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 > Can characters talk about Judy Garland. In one scene some guys debate > which actress made the most beautiful Ozma, Nikidik mentions Shirley > Temple as having played Tip, they talk about how people in the Great > Outside World mostly now associate Oa with Judy Garland even though she > doen't even look anyhting like the real Dorothy, etc. Hopefully the > character inspired by The Wiz Tinman is different enough so as not to > cause a problem. Of course, after he is introduced, Tip's thoughts are > of the film, which is mentioned by name, and he practically plugs, as are > some of the filmmakers. > At one ponit Victor Fleming is called a happier version of Oliver Stone, > and there a parodies of some filimic dialogues. Of course, the MGM film > is part of American popular culture, and referenced in anything and > everything without credit. I would a ssume that were Ozites to see such > films, as I say they have, they would be embraced as part of their > popular culture no matter how historically inaccurate they may be. Ruby > Slippers are mentioned in the context of MGM and RTO, but only Silver > Shoes appear. > --Scott I am not sure this is in the spirit of Baum's Oz. It sounds more like March Laumer's Oz. In TEN WOODMEN OF OZ Dorithy visits the U.S. on an ecological mission looking like Judy Garland. > Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:20:36 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 Craig: I'm mystified by your inclusion of me in your statement "I'm glad to see that people are more enthusiastic about BARNSTORMER than WICKED"; I've never read either. (No offense, if an author is on the Digest; I just never have had the pleasure to peruse either work.) Re Jack Pumpkinhead and spoilage: It just shows that Ozians are better than Real Worlders--here, even the best of leaders often goes bad. Well, it doesn't look like I had much of anything useful to offer in the way of ideas today. Oh, well. In the best of humor, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:42:46 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 Craig, "Is it ever explained in later Oz books why Jack's head didn't spoil? I don't remember. Maybe his fears were simply unfounded. Perhaps the Powder of Life rendered his head unspoilable." In one of the later books someone is visiting Jack and remarks are made about him raising a crop of pumpkins in order to replace the current one when it gets old. I can't recall which book it was. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:37:03 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 Craig--Dorothy was a brunette in Wizard? Not in Denslow's illustration. I found it strange Neill drew Ozma blond when Tip had brown hair. I could never figured out why he did that. I would assume that Tip and Ozma would look fairly similar, at least in things as general as hair color, being twins and all. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:38:26 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 Craig-- Also, Jack doesn't worry about his head spoiling because he learned he could carve replacements for it, since losing his head proved not to be fatal. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:40:17 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 The mentions of Narnia are all very general, common knowledge facts about the story as a work of literature, so it should not be a problem. It's everyday conversation kind of thing. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:46:17 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-26-97 `Evermean` is the Wicked Witch of the East in _The Wiz_ (stage and screen). `Lucinda` is the Good Witch of the North in _The Wiz_ (stage). She is `Miss One` in the film. Also, characters in my book definitely make fun of the Oz films, but they still usually enjoy them. A character mentions that "Ruby Slippers" became all the rage in the Emerald City after the MGM film finally debuted there. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:55:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-26-97 As for Barnstormer, as I understand, Farmer's Glinda shrinks Dorothy's son and takes him into her womb. That's definitely pornographic, and I did read that passage as I was told of this, but the guy's description was far more graphic than either I or the book have stated it. The references to the Oz films are too vague to be defeating the purpose of the contest. Scott "I'd like to apologize to you gentlemen, for referring to you as homosexuals..."--Sailor Ripley, _Wild at Heart_, a film by David Lynch. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:59:34 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-26-97 Tyler: That's absolutely not what I am doing. There are little passages here and there that do that, but it is not the scheme of the story. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:04:10 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Craig: The Wishing Pills might not have been powerful enough to restore the Scarecrow to the throne. All magic has its limits. Of course, we never found out, because, as you mentioned, the characters never thought of this idea. In _Road_, it was revealed that Jack changes his head every month or so. He grows replacement heads in his pumpkin patch. Jeremy: I don't think that IWOC currently charges different rates for new and continuing subscribers. I could be wrong, though. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:14:20 -0800 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 Macaroni Penguin-- Acutally, in "real life," there is a breed of penguin called Macaroni penguins (They are the ones with the black, yellow, and white feathers sticking out above the eyes and flowing across and over the head.) LAND-- This is one of my top three favorite Oz books, although I have to agree with Baum's wierd plotting, and the irony of the wishing pills being able to be their solution all along. It's also ironic that Jinjur's great feministic stance (that men have been ruling Oz for too long) is nonetheless riddled with stereotypes, as she sits on a couch to eat bonbons and gets frightened by a mouse! Also, I never really liked the Wogglebug character (sorry, David!) and his presence seemed superfluous. I would have preferred the group meeting up with their friend the Lion, who would be able to add great force to their group (although he'd probably be too afraid of hurting someone if he would be pressured into fighting) and would most likely still be able to fulfill Wogglebug's only significant action-- having a strong stomach to swalllow the wishing pill. More later. . . ? Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:27:32 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Aaron: I'll post your review on SUnday night, in all likelihood. Witches of the South: Singra is also identified as the WWS in her book, and she mentions the WWW and WWE as cousins (reinforcing certain MOPPeTs about them being sisters). I'll have to go with Singra as THE WWS since her story was more detailed than the other. We have only the Wogglebug's word on that, and he may have mistaken one for the other. After all, he may have been the one who screwed up the east/west orientation! :-) Chris: Speaking of links, I have still not corrected the problem of my page having links to your old page, but I will fix this at the same time that I post Aaron's review. Scott: (also see above) Yes, the WWS is Cosgrove-Payes' book is called Singra. The "other" WWS, from Shanower's graphic novel, is not named. Farmer: Well, I know that sex is discussed frankly in the story, but I can't remember any outright acts that would be considered porn, altough I suppose people's definitions differ. As for Dave's comment, (ahem) well, it's true to an extent. It is mentioned, but not dwelt upon. Alas, the Ozites may have been spared such humiliation on the internet, but I have heard of some pictorials that show the characters (all MGM based) (ahem), uh, it's better left unsaid. Jack's Head: While his heads can and do spoil (see _The Road to Oz_), his first one did seem to have staying power beyond that of most pumpkins, perhaps as you said because that head got an actual dose of the powder of life. He makes an extremely brief appearance at the end of _Ozma_ and is described as being "a little overripe but still active". As far as I can tell, he does not appear at all in _DotWiz_. Jeremy and Scott: IIRC, you were discussing whether the Emerald City had electricity. Church: Handy Mandy hears church bells in the book named after her, and Wutz sneaks in disguised as a monk of some unnamed order. Since nobody noticed him, we can assume that such people are not uncommon in Oz. Internet Traffic: There are three reasons why the internet may seem choked lately. 1. Oscar Night. 2. NCAA tournament 3. That cult who committed mass suicide was mentioned as having a web site. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:30:46 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS FREEEEEEE! Flash! Lucky Bear was excused from the carpal tunnel jury! However, I'm not totally free. I still have to call in tomorrow and see if they want me. Hopefully......... David - Congratulations on your book. We'll look forward to it in whatever form. Dave - Did I hear you blow the whistle to start BCF No. 2???? Didn't thinks so. If you would set a date we wouldn't have people jumping the gun. Jeremy - I liked that pun! I found the light. Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:06:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Religion in Oz 1) Scott, interesting religious references you mentioned being in your book, but two items seem rather strange: 1) The Bhagavad-Gita being in an Ozite library. The peoples of Nonestica, when migrating from Earth, judging from their cultures, probably brought Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism with them, and where people go, so go too their religious texts. Nothing I've read, except the heretical _Skeezik and the Mys-Tree of Oz_, would suggest the presence of Hindus, and in the one book a grand total of one (presumed) Hindu arrived in Oz with no evidence of anything written in her possession. So how did the Bhagavad-Gita get to Oz? 2) The lack of religious symbols. This would make Ozite religion rather unusual, for I can remember religious symbols from most major religions. What could make people so strictly generic? Also, 1) I'm not so sure about children not understanding religion, but my memories on this matter are rather fuzzy. Definitely there is a too much ignorance of religion in this country--both among children and adults--but that's a different matter entirely. 2) I don't have any problem with religion per se in Oz. Unfortunately, the three non-FF books in the HACC that deal with the subject that I've read (_Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz_, _Skeezik and the Mys-Tree of Oz_, and _The Magic Tapestry of Oz_) have done a consistently bad job, badly botching Greek mythology and culminating in the roughest-edged syncreticism I have ever heard of. As long as you don't imitate such material, you will probably do a better job. 3) As to how "pornographic" Farmer's _A Barnstormer in Oz_ is: improper enough that it will recieve a rating of R in the next edition of the HI/RCC. Scott, read this book if you want to see the best handling of religion in any Oz book I've read. Very objective and nonjudgemental and hence avoiding one of the problems of the Mebesian heresies. (Note to Dave: Don't worry. Even if Tyler declares _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_ not historically, it won't be automatically given a bad rating in the HI/RCC for containing romance.) 4) Thanks for the info Earl. 5) Chris, concerning _Land_, perhaps Nick Chopper, being the national hero of Winkieland for his destruction of Bastinda's bees and wolves, was somewhat overconfident of his military progress. As for the wishing pills, I suspect that all forms of magic are limited, and this may be something which is well-known in Oz. As such, Tip and co. may have been reluctant to wish for too much, lest the wish not be fulfiled--or worse. Also: Jack's head did spoil, but he lived on. See _The Road to Oz_ to find out how. Random thought: Tip may have gotten a stomach ache because Dr. Nikidik made the wishing pills assuming that they would be swallowed by mortals and not fairies. In the computer world, the analogous situation is when a program acts strangely when it is run under conditions that violate assumptions that the programmer made. I'd hate to see what the magical equivalent of a computer crashing is. n) Nathan, from the context, "Macaroni Penguin" would seem to be a pun, but I don't understand it anymore than you do. Sorry. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:07:22 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dave H: Hooray, today (Thursday) I received the first, albeit very short, Ozzy Digest since Saturday. However, Craig Noble reports therein that he has received the back issues. I have NOT, and am wondering if you resent them to me also. I've been yelling at AOL, but want to be sure of my facts. I suspect other mail losses, and have also received personal (not ad) mail of late that was not addressed to me! I also tried to download AOL version 3.0, and my computer went beserk. So I trashed it and went back to version 2.7 which works fine. Oh, well! Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:07:21 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Cc: henjay@dunwoody.tec.mn.us The Baum poem in "Sweethearts Always" "discovered" by Jay Henderson is well known to Baum scholars, and is referenced in the bibliographies that have appeared in The Baum Bugle. Its an attractive book, and I would value it at about $40 in the current market. However the price is very variable. I've seen it from $5 to $200! Having said that, I don't want to discourage you from looking for other (unknown) Baumiana. There may well be unrecorded stuff out there, especially in old newspapers. And the same goes for Denslow, Neill and Thompson items. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:02:02 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Non-Ozzy help: Does anybody know how, in the new Office 97, to permanently shut off that annoying little paperclip? By that, I mean totally disabled. Gone. In the Deadly Desert. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Mar 97 11:10:35 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things CHANGES TO MY OZZY WEB PAGE: My "Oz Gallery" page is now open...It currently contains the full-sized versions of my "Emerald City", "Mount Flathead", and "Ozzy Digest Logo" pictures (The versions on my other pages have been reduced to speed up load times of my main pages), and also has as this week "Special exhibit", the "Oz Teddy Bears" picture that Chris sent. The URL is: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Oz_Gallery.html BOOK CONTEST: Steve T. wrote: >BTW all others. Next Monday is March 31, postmark deadline. I'm >looking forward to a lot of good (and anonymous) reading. Does anyone know if the post office is open Monday? (Federal offices are frequetly closed on the Monday following a Sunday holliday) BCF: Bear wrote: >Dave - Did I hear you blow the whistle to start BCF No. 2???? Didn't >thinks so. If you would set a date we wouldn't have people jumping the >gun. Does anyone need more time is I say we start _Land_ (offically) a week from Monday? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 29 - 30, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:59:18 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 Jeremy: >Also, sorry to keep doing this, but my memory is atrocious--what do you mean by "what about the electric light in the Wizard's chambers"?< In "Wizard" the Wizard's Throne Room is lit up by a powerful electric light. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:53:01 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-28-97 Steve: I guess Jack's heads weren't the retainers of his memories--it must have been the wood that makes up his body. I'd imagine the Powder of Life which enlivened him "wired" him that way. so to speak. Concerning IWOZ subscriber rates: Can I pass for 17 or under if I shave my beard off and make my voice sound higher? Oh, well. How is the Bugle looking lately, by the way? Scott: Re filming your novel yourself (you say you think you could do it better than anyone else): Well, hold that thought--my mother is a theatre director, and she CAN direct her own plays better than anyone else! Re Macaroni Penguins: It all dates back to the Arctic-dwelling Yankee Doodle, who stuck a feather in his cap and called it a macaroni penguin. I did like the portrait of it Steve noted. Just had to break the ice, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:39:47 -0700 (MST) From: "Estelle E. Klein" Subject: Russian Oz books If anyone is interested, I've met a Russian book dealer, i.e., he is Russian and he just sells Russian books to the Russian community here in Colorado, doing this from his home. He has a few hard back and large soft cover Russian oz books- some by Volkov and some by Baum...all in Russian. If anyone is interested please contact me by e-mail. The hard back books-which are new and have beautiful illustrations- run between 15 and 20 each. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:33:39 -0600 (CST) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Craig: Congratulations on the happy news of a first baby on the way! Here's another suggestion for Oz decorations: rather than merely photocopying color plates and illustrations/covers from back issues of the Bugle, you can have transparencies made (in color) at a photocopying place like Kinko's. The transparencies would look great hung in a window with the light shining through them. They could be mounted in a frame between two panes of glass or just taped to the window. For that matter, if you know a teacher you could probably get an overhead projector on loan and project the transparency onto a wall, trace the lines, and then paint the figure later--the way photo-realist artists do. Some observations on _The Marvelous Land of Oz_: 1) The Golden Cap: during the trip to the Tin Woodman's castle, the Scarecrow tells Jack that "the Winged Monkeys are now the slaves of Glinda the Good, who owns the Golden Cap that commands their services." At the end of WWoO, however, Glinda states that she is using her three wishes to transport the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Lion to their respective realms, after which she will turn the Cap over to the head monkey and deliver all of the monkeys from slavery. I assume this is another of Baum's little slips, but it would be interesting to know if anyone has come up with an adroit explanation for the discrepancy. 2) Speaking of the Lion: where is he?? I know that Baum wrote _Land_ with an eye to transforming it with as little effort as possible into a stage play, and for whatever reasons he evidently didn't want to include the Cowardly Lion as a character, but I find it truly odd that the Lion doesn't even rate a mention in Tip's account of Dorothy's adventures (p. 36). As far as I can see, the only reference to the Lion in the entire book is in the description of the Tin Woodman's ornamental silver oil can, which has engraved scenes of the Fab Four in their various adventures. It's hard to account for this near-total erasure of the Lion from public memory--even if he's not an active character in the book, you'd expect at least some mention of how he is living happily in the forest as King of the Beasts. 3) Mortality: as people have mentioned, this is an exceedingly jokey book (again with an eye to stage dialogue), but it also has a distinctly dark side to it. I don't know of any other Oz book that has so many references to death. Poor Jack Pumpkinhead is obsessed with the thought of his ongoing decay, and the Gump positively has a death wish: "My only satisfaction is that I do not seem to have a very strong constitution, and am not likely to live long in a state of slavery." I wonder if Baum had second thoughts about all this talk of mortality and for that reason arranged for Ozma to abolish death from the Land of Oz. Craig: at the end of _Land_ Baum says that Jack Pumpkinhead remained with Ozma to the end of his days and did not spoil as soon as he had feared, but in _Road_ Dorothy encounters Jack in the best of health and currently on his fourth head (the previous three have been ceremonially buried with gravestones), managing a big pumpkin patch for the cultivation of new heads which Ozma herself continues to carve for him--a really nice touch, I think. 4) Who's Alice? In the illustration of Professor Nowitall's classroom (p. 147), if you look very closely at the front desk you will see the name Alice B. carved into the wood, with what looks like the initial D. beneath it and an arrow-pierced heart below that. Does anyone know if Neill had a real Alice in mind in this detail? Could Alice B. be a Baum relative? 5) Arithmetic: I don't know about the rest of you, but I always have had the feeling that the Sawhorse's solution to the problem of counting to seventeen by two's involves an illegal maneuver. Doubling one-half to make one doesn't really constitute counting by two's, does it? 6) The Grassy Knoll: shortly before that quotation about the Golden Cap, the Scarecrow remarks, "It was upon this grassy knoll that I once saved Dorothy from the Stinging Bees of the Wicked Witch of the West." Funny how that quirky little phrase shows up in a children's story 59 years before it became an indelible part of the vocabulary of national trauma and conspiracy theory. 7) The plot: I agree with Craig that the return to the Emerald City with nothing more than a few field mice to scare Jinjur and her army doesn't make a lot of sense. Why not go directly to Glinda for help? On the other hand, that shortcut would have deprived us of the grumpy Gump, one of the most interesting characters in the book. Also: counting this trip to the Emerald City there are a total of three major encounters with Jinjur (her initial seizure of the EC, the recapture of the throne room, and the final battle with Glinda), and clearly Baum favored three-fold repetitions of plot elements, a structural device that is central to folk fairy tales and shows up very strongly in WWoZ as well. Speaking of the Gump, not to mention a much more recent Gump: I see that the OED defines a gump as "a foolish person, a dolt" and gives citations back to 1825. I had some further comments about eating beans with a knife and General Jinjur's brand of feminism, but--enough is enough! --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:02:46 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Scott: I believe that, in _Land_, Baum described Ozma as having "golden tresses," or something like that. As for Ozma looking like Tip, Mombi would probably have wanted Tip to look almost nothing like Ozma, so that no one would recognize him/her as a member of the Royal Family. Melody's _Disenchanted Princess_ explains where Tip's form originated. Danny: I like the Wogglebug's character, but I agree that he added little to the plot of _Land_. Apparently Baum thought that the Wogglebug would make a good stage character. I remember reading somewhere that the Highly Magnified one's style of puns was popular in theaters of the time. BTW, one reason I like the Wogglebug's character is because I can identify with him. I know what it's like to make a pun that no one but myself appreciates. Aaron: In _Wooglet in Oz_, Chris states his belief that-Wait! Better use one of these: ************************SPOILERS FOR _WOOGLET IN OZ_******************** Now, where was I? Oh, yes. Chris states his belief that it was the sloppy algebra that gave Tip pains. The Sawhorse really didn't solve the problem of how to count to seventeen by twos, since the first step was a MULTIPLICATION by two! **********************END SPOILERS************************************** That's all for today. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:04:56 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 3-28-97 Robin & Steve: Will you give us a manuscript count after March 31? Bet it has multiplied greatly since that last count of 5. :-) **** Between "Wizard" and "Land," there's quite a character change in the Tin Woodman. After the Winkie tinsmiths repair him--"to be sure, there were several patches on him, but the tinsmiths did a good job, and as the Woodman was not a vain main he did not mind the patches at all. In "Land," though, being ruler of the Winkies must have affected him--when Tip tells theScarecrow that Nick's not really an emperor--his kingdom's too small--the Scarecrow warns him not to say that to Nick because he is "proud." One person opined that the stage portrayal of the Tin Woodman may have influenced Baum to turn Nick from "not vain" to "vain." Of course, perhaps Baum felt it was realistic to have Nick's newfound power affect him that way. As a child, I also enjoyed "The Wizard's" descriptions of the immense weath of Oz. Jewels! Gold! But only because I thought it would be nice if everyone could be rich. And good. (I still do! :-) :-) ) Of all fantasies ever read, Oz fulfils that fantasy best. :-) :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 02:36:20 -0500 (EST) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest, Craig, Congratualations on the great expectation. Actually, Denslow created a lovely wall paper design for children's rooms and nurseries. Unfortunately this is ultra rare. There were four designs, and I have only been able to find matted and mounted original panels from three of them. I would decorate with matted color xeroxes of the BOW or older books. It should be possible to flatten the image part withou cracking the binding. Since young children often fling liquids (or worse) around the room, I wouldn't use something as valuable as original Oz plates. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 13:22:45 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-28-97 Steve--a character talks about Ten Woodmen and that instance though I've never actually read it myself --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 13:24:47 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-28-97 I was wrong. There is some play where GWN is Lucinda, but not Wiz, she's Addaperle. I eblieve all the witch's names are variants on Glinda in the play I'm referring to, which may be the Goodpeed one, I'm not sure. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 13:34:55 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-28-97 There are no religious symbols because the chapel is generic, not the religion. Those texts are there because of the situation that these are well-read people who have virtually everything in their libraries, including a book that's unwritten, Jack Snow's _Over the Rainbow to Oz_. As far as that thing with a film version goes, I say that because I'm a minor in film studies and know all about that kind of stuff. I'm planning to go to film school if I can ever afford it. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 17:35:48 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 I just got back from visiting my mother in Tennessee and it's late, so I won't comment extensively, but I did want to mention to Craig that Jack's heads _do_ spoil; the tombstones of three of them turn up in ROAD. Apparently adding a regular carved pumpkin to his body brings it magically to life. Dave, could you try re-sending me any Digests between 3-22 and 3-27? Apparently when you re-sent them to Craig they got through OK. Thanks. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 97 00:48:44 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things (NOTE: There was no Digest for the 29th...) Gordon wrote: >5) Arithmetic: I don't know about the rest of you, but I always have >had the feeling that the Sawhorse's solution to the problem of counting >to seventeen by two's involves an illegal maneuver. Doubling one-half to >make one doesn't really constitute counting by two's, does it? I would say that the definition of "counting by twos" is starting with two and incrementing by two...In C++ it would be: void Wishing_Pill::Count_to_seventeen() { for(i = 2; i < 17; i += 2) // Start with 2 and increment by 2 each time { cout << i << endl; // Print the number we're currently counting if(i == 17) Grant_Wish(); // This will *never* be executed // because i will *never* be 17! :( } } The output of this will be the even numbers: 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16. The next iteration will increment i from 16 to 18 bypassing 17. Now that I've shown off my programming knowledge, I come to the conclusion that counting to 17 by twos is utterly impossible! The only two avenues of escape is if (A) Oz uses an alternate number/numeral system in which the symbol '17' represents an even number; or, more likely, (B) In Oz, "counting by twos" has a broader definition, and can also mean starting with one and counting odd numbers... *This* will work: void Wishing_Pill::Count_to_seventeen() { for(i = 1; i < 17; i += 2) // Start with 1 and increment by 2 each time { cout << i << endl; // Print the number we're currently counting if(i == 17) Grant_Wish(); // Grant the wish when i equals 17! :) } } Output: 1,3,5,7,11,13,15,17 ^^ We hit 17, and our wish is granted!!! :) :) (The preceeding code was reprinted with the kind permission of The Magic of Everything Faerie Programmers of Nonestica, Inc.) :) :) :) -- Dave ======================================================================