] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 1 - 2, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:10:45 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 11-30-96 No, Bear, I had not imbibed. I rarely do. If I had, I wouldn't have been able to even rhyme the doggone doggerel. And yes, absolutely, it was doggerel. But I had fun playing with it for several minutes. Can you tell I'm allergic to beestings? Dave, let's agree to disagree. If you're comfortable with Baumgea, then use it. We'll know what you mean. All I said was I've always thought of this particular fantasyland as Nonestica. That's what I'm comfortable with, and it's what I'll use in my writing if I ever need to. You're certainly entitled to call it what you wish. I never meant to start a fuss. BTW, I haven't had trouble with the extra characters you seem to refer to. My server (yes, the $5.00/year one) doesn't seem to have any problems with the _Digest_, no matter how long it gets. Eric, I got BOW's _Oz Collector_ here on the South Coast quite a few weeks ago. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:22:16 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Since there is some wondering, the last Oz Collector I received from BOW was dated September 1996. It had THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW on the cover. There is no volume number. The toll free order and customer service number is 1-800-345-6665. Melody - Watson married several times. I don't think you can say Holmes sneered at love. I don't recall him ever putting Watson down for his interest in the "fairer" sex. Love involves the emotions. Holmes schooled himself to avoid clouding his keen analytical mind with emotions. His focus was solely on the intellect. I agree, anyone who tries to do that is going to get depressed. :) >Sherlock Holmes likely sneered at love because if everyone did love each other, he'd be out of business as a consulting detective! :-) :-) Oh, there might still be a lost dog or two..... I hope you aren't waiting for the above to happen. I think THE WOMAN outsmarted Holmes ONCE because his usually razor sharp mind was dulled by Victorian expectations of the intellect of women. I thought Doyle made this point beautifully. I am a little shocked to hear a women thinks Victorian women were kept at the ignoramus level. True in England they didn't get "public" education but that has never kept bright women from learning. In fact, considering the state of education today, ....... well, before I offend any teachers out there we should leave that for another venue. Which Oziana were your illustrations and the detective in Oz stories in please? Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:17:43 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz David and Robin: From the hints that Robin dropped, I am assuming that Dorothy's mother vanished years ago, and that Henry assumed she was dead. Therefore, there was no "error" in the strict sense, just a lack of complete information. Bear: WElcome aboard! Glad that CompuServe is finally letting is MAC people on the web. It looks like they may be climbing out of the pit of ignorance they fell into when they closed the Tucson R&D office! :-) In case you don't know, I'm at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tylerjones Names and such: I believe that the name for the Ozian continent and the name for the overall area, or world, are probably different. IMHO, the word "OZ" would not appear in either of them. Even though Oz is the biggest, best and most important nation on the continent (especially from our point of view), it must be remembered that Oz itself does not play a major part in the international scene. They are isolated by the Deadly Desert and rarely impinge on the outer lands. OUr little bands of adventurers do, of course, but not Oz itself. Melody: The woman you are describing as a perfect match for Holmes sounds a lot like Glinda! :-) Dave: You may have asked the burning question. What did they call themselves BEFORE Baum wrote his first novel? The beat goes on... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 19:03:40 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 11-27-96 Just in reading over the Digests from the past few days, I came up with a question: It seems to me that if witches could not tolerate any water at all, they'd get awfully thirsty . . . (That is, I think they can even drink iced tea from a mix, so long as they don't do the mixing.) Just an idea, anyway. ====================================================================== Can anyone help this person and son? (Please reply personally to them) -- Dave ---- BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE ---- >Return-path: >Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 22:03:45 -0500 >From: Vance Morgan >Subject: Cowardly lion weapons >To: DaveH47@delphi.com >Reply-to: Morgan@pinn.net > >Dave, > >Can you help us on an important question for my son's paper due tomorrow >AM (its 10Pm EST here in VA)! What two weapons did the cowardly lion >take to kill the wicked witch? We can't find this info anywhere. >Help!! > >Thanks, > >Vance ---- END FORWARDED MESSAGE --- ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 3 - 4, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 20:52:09 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Robin >"Buzz outta here or die!" I did detect a major antipathy. :) Tyler - After struggling with Compuserve for months, I finally had to have a friend come over and lead me through the forest. Sigh. I can't imagine why Compuserve has to make it so hard? Does anyone have any tips on the cheapest way to get unlimited INTERNET access? My five hours for $9.95 isn't going to go very far now. Gee! A 6k Digest. Everyone must be out there Christmas shopping. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 00:01:56 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-02-96 Priority: normal Comments: Authenticated sender is I've been away for Thanksgiving, so this message contains replies to Digests from last Wednesday to today (Monday). Chris: I've written an entry for the Magic Belt Contest, but I haven't gotten around to sending it yet. Robin: Are you going to call Shaggy's father Samuel Mann, as Eric and Karyl did in _Queen Ann_? It would provide continuity. Eric: I have received the most recent Oz Collector, and the most recent Oz Gazette and Observer, but I have still not received the most recent Baum Bugle. Robin: Some lands in the vicinity of Ev, such as Menankypoo and the Nome Kingdom, are sometimes mentioned as being parts of the Land of Ev, even though they are probably not ruled by King Evardo. Ev is clearly on the same continent as Oz, but the Deadly Desert makes Oz sort of like a separate island. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 00:32:17 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Witches and Water in Oz Jeremy, if memory serves me correctly, Singra (a wicked witch of the South) in _The Wicked Witch of Oz_ does drink--but not water; she drinks tea brewed from ink. On the other hand, in Laumer's _The Frogman of Oz_, Gingemma the Wicked Witch of the East drinks very strong tea; as Gayelette (who is not dried up at all unless she is projecting a false appearance like Zixi is) drinks this tea as well, I presume that this tea is brewed with water rather than ink. However, in objection to Laumer (Cosgrove's Singra could tolerate water due to magical intervention, though presumably her learned avoidance of it would not be canceled automatically) one might claim that ANY water was dangerous to Gingemma or Bastinda; living in such a dessicated state where carefully calibrated spells were the only thing standing between life and death, even very impure water (still a highly corrosive substance) could be dangerous to them; as such Gingemma drinking tea is arguably incredible. That humans need moisture to survive is irrelevant; as Gingemma and Bastinda were dried up to the point where they could not have survived without magic, one cannot assume that they depended on anything which humans normally need to survive. Maybe they didn't even eat or breathe. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 01:28:02 -0500 (EST) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-02-96 A package arrived today from Bangkok. THE WIZARD OF OZ in Thai! Joy joy joy! Looks like little wiggly worms crawling around the Denslow illustrations. Intriguing language. I wish I could read the afterword, it looks interesting. All I can make out are occasional words in English - including the address of the International Wizard of Oz Club! Yay! - Gili ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 20:47:05 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 11-30-96 Robin: Hi! Thanks for the hints about the whereabouts of Dorothy's mother. I shall not pester for more 'till the hardback comes out. :-) :-) David Hulan: Good logic about people coming to Nonestica/Baumgea from wildly varying places. Good reason to stick to Oz-In-Another-Dimension. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 23:07:37 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Names: In my current mind-set, the name of the continent is Baumgea, while the world overall is called Nonestica. This may change at any time, of course. I remember that picture on _The Oz Collector_. Therefore, I must have receieved it and just forgotten about it. As a matter of fact, I do have a slight memory of going through it and saying "I have that. I have that. I have that, etc.", while checking to see if there were any new Oz items. Jeremy: The best answer so far seems to be that SOME witches (not necessarily all wicked ones, either) cannot tolerate PURE water. So go ahead and quaff iced tea, coffee, coca-cola and other adult beverages. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 10:19:22 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest Extra -- Cowardly lion weapons (fwd.) What kind of classes due they teach in Virginia schools these days? Isn't this the state that recently had a Republican candidate who ran on the morally corrupt message of the Wizard of Oz? (shiver) Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 11:38:06 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 11-30-96 & 12-02-96 11/30: Robin: Oz and Ev are on the same continent, unless you're thinking of "continent" in the sense that Europe is a "continent", even though it has long land boundaries with Asia. Most geographers consider Eurasia to be a single continent. Usually two continents are considered separate only if their land connection is a narrow land bridge like those separating Eurasia from Africa or North from South America. Melody: Have you read THE BEEKEEPER'S APPRENTICE, by Laurie R. King? It matches Holmes with a woman much like the one you describe (although Holmes himself is a somewhat different character from the one in Watson's stories - a point made strongly by King, to explain why Holmes, in the late 1910s, might have an interest in a young woman). Holmes doesn't unequivocally fall in love in that book, but in the teaser for the sequel (which may or may not have been published yet - I haven't seen it) it appears that he may be going to. Or maybe not. It's an excellent book, in any case. Dave: I think the inhabitants of the places in the Americas that are known by the names of 15th-16th century explorers (including "America") probably just called their lands "here", or the equivalent in their language. I doubt if they even had the concept of a "continent". And it's highly likely that the inhabitants of the various countries on the Ozian continent also didn't have a name for the continent itself in pre-Baumian days, so "Baumgea" is perfectly reasonable. On the other hand, "Nonestis", after the example of "Atlantis", or "Nonestica" after the example of "Antarctica", are also quite reasonable. ("Imagination", on the other hand, I've never liked, despite the fact that it's the only name for the continent with FF justification.) I think Robin's idea that as long as we all know what we mean, we can use any name we want for the continent, is the best one. 12/2: Bear: There's definitely at least one OZ COLLECTOR you've missed, and I think two. Have you ordered from them recently? Watson married several times? I thought it was only twice. But I'm not a major Holmes fan. Tyler: If Dorothy's mother was alive at the time of EMERALD CITY, then referring to her "dead mother" was an error. Not a contradiction, but an error on someone's part: Uncle Henry's, Baum's, or Baum's informant's. True, Oz itself doesn't impinge on the rest of the continent very often. The only major time was when Ozma "invaded" the Nome Kingdom in OZMA. Captain Salt's voyage in CAPTAIN SALT doesn't impinge on the continent, but does on some of the islands of the Nonestic and on Ozamaland, since he was acting as an official representative of Oz. The other cases of action outside of Oz are all cases of individuals acting on their own behalf, and not as official representatives of Ozma and Oz (although Dorothy's intervention in RINKITINK and Shaggy's in SHAGGY MAN are done with Ozma's approval and assistance). Then again, there's little evidence that any of the other kingdoms on the continent impinge much on each other - the invasions of Noland by Ix and the R oly-Rogues in ZIXI, the imprisonment of the royal families of Ev and Pingaree by the Nome Kings, and the depredations of Regos and Coregos are about it. Jeremy: It could be that the digestive tracts of witches aren't subject to the same dissolution in water that happens when it contacts their skins. Or that the soap in the water Dorothy threw over the WWW was more important than the water itself. (We know Mombi doesn't want to be totally immersed, but she was functioning as a cook, and it's hard to imagine anyone being an effective cook and avoiding contact with water completely!) Special query: This is clearly a movie question, since the Cowardly Lion didn't carry weapons in the book. I hope that some of the more movie-oriented readers of the Digest were able to answer the question. (I could check my tape, of course, but it's probably too late by now to do the kid any good anyhow. I have a vague recollection of a pitchfork and a halberd, but nothing for sure.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 10:40:41 -0600 From: Richard_Tuerk@tamu-commerce.edu (Richard Tuerk) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-02-96 In the digest for 12/2 Richard Bauman mentions that he thinks "THE WOMAN outsmarted Holmes ONCE...." In "A Scandal in Bohemia" a woman--Irene Adler--does outsmart Holmes in part for precisely the reason Bauman gives: since she is a woman, Holmes underestimates her. Irene Adler is the woman he refers to as "_the_ woman." Rich Tuerk ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 10:59:05 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: OZ I have used my Thanksgiving Vacation to read Maguire's WICKED. I found it a quite entertaining book, and plan to re-read it when I have leisure (probably next millenium). Although he is somewhat heretical, the Wizard is the villain, Maguire does have a sound knowledge of Ozian history. An Ozophile can read the book as a Northener can read GONE WITH THE WIND (or worse THE CLANSMAN) and realize that different people can have different perspecitives on history. It is definitely not a children's book, concerning matters that are adult in every sense of the word (it is not pornographic, but it has more sex than Laumer's collected Ozian writings). I think it is better than BARNSTORMER and infinitely better than Tedrow's DOROTHY--RETURN TO OZ. I can look forward to Demi Moore with more equinamity than I did to THE SCARLET LETTER. When Chris Dulabone says you don't want RADIOACTIVE TEDDY BEAR . . . he is trying to censor your purchases. If you read the original issues of THE OZ SQUAD and felt they were too mild, then you would like RTBFHDO. If you are not so perverse, then you might do well to skip it. The live action MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ that Dave mentions is probably the Minneapolis Children's Theatre version. It is quite faithful to the book and has marvelous costuming. I recommend it to Oz fans. If it is the the 1970's Barry Mahon version, avoid it like the plague--that gives amaturism a bad name. The justification for Nonestica is that Baum named the Nonestic Ocean. Nonestica can refer either to the large land mass in this ocean, or to all the islands in the ocean. If you think that is confusing consider the use of IONIA in discussing Ancient Greek Territories. Not to mention the various meanings of AMERICA. Oh, David and Eric: I found copies of both GLASS CAT and QUEEN ANNE in both the BORDERS store (CLARK/BROADWAY/DIVERSEY) and THE STARS OUR DESTINATION in Chicago last Saturday. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 11:00:39 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 11-27-96 Re: Sylvie and Bruno / Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (the titles of the two volumes of the original publication). It's an odd work, rather as if someone took: The Road to Oz, The Little Prince, Gulliver's Travels, the Gormenghast trilogy, the Dialogs of Plato The Old Curiosity Shop, and The General Theory of Relativity, and ran them through a blender. The sentiment can be trying (the sententiousness, on the other hand, is not really all that bad) and Bruno's baby talk can be very annoying indeed, but it is interesting to note that Galsworthy evidently felt quite justified in _assuming_ that his readers knew S&B when he wrote "Maid in Waiting". The book can be difficult to start; the anonymous narrator never actually gets around to explaining his confusing habit of sometimes being in two places at once (although Carroll himself finally gives a schema in the introduction to V2), and until you get _that_ into your head, it's a _leetle_ hard to follow the action. And there are lines that stick with you, like: "'You're sweetly picturesque in rags,'" or "Yet even pendulums are not a joy forever." Re: Holmes in love The love story in William Gillette's "Sherlock Holmes" is fairly muted, and left unresolved. And let us not forget the theory, accepted by many, that Holmes and Irene Adler had a brief affair in Montenegro (during Holmes's missing years) that resulted in the birth of none other than Nero Wolfe. Re: Troilus and Cressida I don't know of anyone who regards T&C as one of Shakespeare's great plays, except for, perhaps, doctrinaire pacifists with an axe to grind, but Charles Williams regarded it as a work critical to the understanding of Shakespeare, seeing in the double eavesdropping scene the perfect type of a moment when all understanding breaks, a moment to be seen again and again in the later plays until S. finally broke through to the other side and the pure poetry of the late romances. At any rate, there is really nothing in T&C that cannot be justified from some ancient or mediaeval source. The deep cynicism that permeates the play is surely Shakespeare's own, but there is no one place where you can say "Here Shakespeare has diverged from all his sources and deliberately created something to darken the play." Rather, he chose to select, whenever given a choice, nothing but darker possibilities. Re: Farmer It should be noted that "Barnstormer" is not at all unique among Farmer's works. Many of his books put a new, darker spin on someone else's creation, such as "The Other Log of Phileas Fogg", in which we learn that the famous 80-day journey was actually made by an interplanetary secret agent as part of a complex counterplot to foil the machinations of the wicked alien, Captain Nemo. By the way, "Riverworld" was originally one very long novel, so whatever else it may be, it's not a case of failing sequelitis. I never knew the exact story (I gather it's so well known in serious fandom that no-one feels the need to explicate), but I know that it was originally entitled "I Owe for the Flesh," and won some kind of contest in manuscript, but there was a scandal (not, it seems, reflecting on Farmer) and was not able to be published for years. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 13:32:56 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: nikko in oz Very likely others have already commented, but in case not -- double consonant after a vowel in English usually means tha the vowel is short, e.g., gripping compared to griping. Unless there's any special reason to think Nikko is pronounced otherwise, it's short i. (The name wasn't spoken in the movie.) Also, it was probably meant to be a nickname for Nicholas, formed in the same way as names like Jocko or Beppo, so would be a short i that way, too. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 18:43:43 -0500 From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest I've been lurking for a while and figure it's finally time to say something, although it's not about Oz per se. Today I finally bought a copy of Bounty Book's 1986 reprint of Baum's "Mother Goose in Prose" for $20 (with dust jacket in good condition). I'd been looking for a reading copy for quite some time. The only other time I saw it was at the outrageously expensive "Dickens" bookstore in Atlanta for $200, which I knew was too much for a reprint. How hard is it to come by this book with Maxfield Parrish's wonderful drawings? It's priceless to me b/c I've always wanted to read it, but I'm still curious -- which is closer to its true value, $20 or $200? --Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 21:13:08 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-02-96 Bear: "The occasional lost dog"? Holmes would be so humiliated.... :) "The Adventure of the Cat that Didi Not Meow in the Night", by Eric Shanower, illoed by me, Oziana '76,"The Adventure of the MIssing Belt" by Vincent Ward & Jay Delkin, Oziana 1978, "A Study in Orange" written & illoed by me,Oziana 1980, and "The Mystery of the Missing Ozma" by Jay Delkin, illoed by Eric Shanower (we come full circle here!) Oziana 1984. In "A Study in Orange," I cannot take ALL credit for the writing--Jay Delkin added a few of the Holmesy touches. Yes,a story submitted by Eric Shanower got turned into the first Great Detective story. He was young at the time, and Jay mentioned that his original story did not have much plot--it was Jay who rewrote it and put the Sherlock Holmes-type character in it. He told me not to make The Great Detective too obviously Holmes (copyright issues apparently. Did printing your Sherlock Holmes story bring a stern slap on the wrist from the Conan Doyle estate, Ruth?). Therefore, Holmes had a black top hat instead of his traditional deerstalker. Good point--suppress those poor little feelings completely, and they are apt to bite you back! :-) A couple years back, I bought a supposedly complete collection of Sherlock Holmes, and I recall reading in one story Watson saying that Holmes sneered at love. Love seemed to be the one emotion Holmes was REALLY down on. However, it was likely infatuation that Holmes truly held in scorn. I agree--projecting one's fantasies onto someone else, not seeing them as they truly are, does deserve scorn. In fact, idolizing and despising are two sides of the same coin--refusing to see the other person as real. That isn't real love, it is fantasizing. Fantasizing might be a better term for love-out-of-control than infatuation. Love guided by the intellect (really, a person should learn as much about themselves, and about people in general, as possible) can size up a potential mate's faults and virtues (provided the potential mate is honest) and decide whether the virtues are the kind one wants in a mate, and whether the faults can be lived with. On Victorian women--more women were denied higher education than now. However, I agree there were bright women who beat the odds. (Louisa May Alcott, George Sand, Emily Dickenson, etc.) However, back then, intelligence in women was frowned on. To be fair, intelligence in *anybody* who was supposed to be inferior was frowned on! Tyler Jones: Glinda may indeed fit my description of the perfect mate for Holmes--provided her magical powers didn't boggle his logical, analytical mind! :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 21:28:46 -0500 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Elves Yay! We have just received our copies of *A Silver Elf in Oz* at long last! I had expected 'em a while back. Now, finally, you can get the books you ordered a few weeks ago. Thanx to everyone who had already ordered! I sent out a whole bunch of books today, so I'm ready for lots more orders, too! The book, by the way, looks TERRIFIC! I loved the metallic silver ink on the cover. Adds a lot to our little Elf, it does. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 20:19:27 -0800 (PST) From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) Subject: Ozzy Digest I have a vague notion that this may have been mentioned in the Digest before, but . . . The catalog for J & R Computer World in Queen, NY, lists a CD called Yellow Brick Road, which is put out by a company by the name of Synergy. The blurb says: "Join the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodsman (sic), and the Lion for two excursions along the Yellow Brick Road." For Windows, Win95, or Mac. Stock "number" is SGI YELLOW-C. Cost is $29.95 plus shipping. Run, don't walk, to your phone and call 1-800-221-8180 anytime, if you have the $30 to spare. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 14:48:23 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Gili Bar-Hillel: Browsing around in the theater collection there sounds like fun. Could you give more exact dates for 1904 and 1911 Boston runs of "Wizard"? I think I might like to try looking them up in the couple of Boston papers available on microfilm in the U MN library. Melody G. Keller: Thanks for the kind words on "Sherlock Holmes in Oz." Incidentally, if people feel curious about it, I don't think the Oz Club has it in print, but I reprinted it in a collection of material by sf fans on Sherlock Holmes and have copies of that. Also, it was published professionally in a collection called "The Game is Afoot," edited by Marvin Kaye (whose novel "The Marvellous Umbrella" is an enjoyable romp through several worlds, including a good deal of Holmesian reference and a little Ozzian, too). Robin Olderman: Your suggestion that Ev is such a large territory, considering that it contains sub-kingdoms, such as Menankypoo and Jinnicky's realm, that it might be considered a continent in itself -- it doesn't seem to me that the number of sub-kingdoms is so large as to suggest quite that large a territory. Maybe something on the order of a sub-continent (as India in terms of Asia is sometimes described)? The Martin/Haff map doesn't show it as all that large, but in terms of the "Tik-Tok" enpapers map, I suppose it would be possible that the portion of Eve not shown could jut out a good deal more than has generally been supposed. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 5, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:08:58 -0500 (EST) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 Cowardly lion weapons - too late to help the person from outside the digest, but what WAS the lion holding in the movie? For some reason I'm picturing a huge can of Bugspray with a clever slogan, and a net? Ruth Berman - the 1904 programme I photocopied is from the week of 26th of Sept, 1904; a production at the Boston Theatre. The 1911 production was originally intended to be a Christmas show, but was apparantly extended because of its success. The only material I photocopied about that was a little blurb from the Castle Square Theatre Programme Magazine from Jan. 8th 1912, that says "The Wizard of Oz" is in its 4th week at the theatre. The main reason I photocopied this was not because of its Ozzy significance, but because of a paragraph about a different production, that sums out how different what people consider theatrical realism used to be: "...we shall merely mention one feature of it that promises to create a sensation entirely apart from the interest the play itself is bound to arouse. One entire act will ahve for its scene a Southern cotton mill in full operation. This does not mean that the mill will be imitated, or be merely a painted picture. On the stag will be seen the actual machinery operated just as it is operated in the mill itself.And what is more, it is absolutely essential to the working out of the action of the drama, the characters moving and speaking in its very midst. Certainly everybody who wants to see the very latest realism in the theatre will want to see "The Product of the Mill" at the Castle Square". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Gili Bar-Hillel abhillel@fas.harvard.edu gili@scso.com http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== "He thought he saw an Elephant |\ _,,,---,,_ That practised on a fife: /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ He looked again, and found it was |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' A letter from his wife. '---''(_/--' `-'\_) 'At length I realise,' he said, (cat by Felix Lee) 'The bitterness of Life!'" - Lewis Carrol, "Sylvie and Bruno" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:50:07 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 Aaron: It's quite likely that Singra grew to like herbal tea brewed with ink before she became immune to water, and just continued to drink it after the Nymph worked her magic. True, the WWW, and possibly the WWE, may have been more vulnerable to water than other witches (such as Mombi). David: I was also thinking that it would be difficult for Mombi to be a cook without working with water. I imagine that she took great pains not to let the water touch her, if she ever worked with it in its pure form. The Tin Woodman also interferes in a nation outside Oz, namely Stratovania in _Ozoplaning_. Of course, this was not by order of Ozma, and Stratovania is not part of the Ozian continent. As for other countries intefering in each other's affairs, there are not all that many cited, but I imagine that there have been struggles and wars between Baumgean nations. You did not mention King Scowleyow's invasion of Mo, Skamperoo's invasion of Oz itself, and possibly a few others. Also, in "The Witchcraft of Mary-Marie," Mary-Marie, who lives in the Ribdil-Aurissau area (shown as part of Baumgea/Imagination on Haff and Martin's map), says that her father was sent off by the evil King to fight in the "foreign wars." It is quite true that the people of the Continent of Imagination might not have called the continent anything before the name of Baumgea was suggested. Also, it is unlikely that all of the inhabitants of the continent call it by the same name. Stephen: I would prefer "Nonestica" as a term used to describe all of the fantasy lands in the Oz area, rather than just the Ozian continent. I sometimes use the term "fairyland" to refer to all of the fantasy lands, but that is just a description, not a proper name. Warren: I won a copy of "Yellow Brick Road" at the Munchkin Convention. I have not tried it yet, and I do not know if it would work on the computer that I am currently using. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 08:17:38 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 > From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-02-96 > > Robin: Are you going to call Shaggy's father Samuel Mann, as Eric and > Karyl did in _Queen Ann_? It would provide continuity. Yeah, like Karyl and I even CARE about continuity, or "Queen Ann"'s place in it... > Eric: I have received the most recent Oz Collector, and the most > recent Oz Gazette and Observer, but I have still not received the > most recent Baum Bugle. The Spring one? Write to the Kalamazoo address and complain. The Autumn one? Nobody's gotten that one yet, and I'll be surprised if anyone does in 1996... BTW, everyone, I got my replacement "Oz Collector," and a large check is on its way to New York now. --Eric "Not many new Oz books on that order, though..." Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:37:29 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest rr0189 (who'm I talking to?): Oh, I think most critics regard "Troilus and Cressida" as a "great" play, although not one of "Shakespeare's great" plays. Plays that are mediocre in terms of Shakespeare's standard are by general standards still great plays. (For instance, when I was an undergraduate English major, courses in Shakespeare were required, and "T&C" was included in the second beginning Shakespeare course; Marlowe's "Dr. Faustus" was included in the sophomore survey course, and no other play by any other Elizabethan -- not even Jonson or Webster -- was required at the undergraduate level.) You're right that Shakespeare had justification for portraying the characters darkly in terms of the way other writers after Chaucer had treated them, but he darkens them a good deal more than anyone else had done. Even Robert Henryson's "Testament of Cressyd," although a good deal darker than Chaucer, is much more sympathetic to the characters than Shakespeare. Going back to the context of whether a good work of art can grow out of contempt for a source work, though, if you don't think "T&C" qualifies as an example, I'd point to Mark Twain's slamming of Arthurian tradition in "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" for an example of a great book that goes in for heavy dissing. Melody Grandy: The Doyle estate can't stop publication of Doyle imitations anymore. Most of the stories are in the public domain and have been for some time. Even back when my "SH in Oz" story appeared in "Oziana" #1, the earlier Holmes stories had already gone into public domain in the US. In Britain and the Commonwealth (including Canada), they were still under copyright, and Jay Delkin as a Canadian editor was perhaps thinking in terms of potential Canadian problems when he asked you to make your Great Detective not too obviously Holmes. // The story you are remembering in which Watson says Holmes "never spoke of the softer passions save with a gibe or a sneer" is "Scandal in Bohemia." Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 19:21:31 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 Melody: I agree; putting Oz in another dimension is the easiest way to resolve all our location difficulties. However, if we do that, that's all the more reason for the continent to be called Nonestica, as it doesn't exist--not in our dimension, at any rate. How, though, do we explain the fact that so many people arrived there from here? We still need to work on that. Tyler: Actually, I had not thought about it that way (re the world Nonestica and continent Baumega), but that makes sense--regardless of my qualms at calling an entire continent after one author. By the way, do you mean to imply that I am a wicked witch? The fact that I don't drive is NOT the reason I go around by broomstick. David: In reading your message to Robin, I begasn to wonder if perhaps the entire map of Nonestica or whatever might need to be redrawn, perhaps accommodating those who want it called something else by drawing the continent of Nonestica with a land bridge to Baumega. I still believe Oz belongs on Nonestica, though (strangely enough). Until next time, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:09:38 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Twodays Oz Growls Scott - Please elaborate, message not understood. David - I have The Beekeeper's Apprentice. I guess I better move it up in the pile and see if it will give Melody an argument. And yes, I ordered from the Oz Collector with THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW on the cover. I'll call them and check. Thanks. This may not be of Ozzy interest, but Oh Well: Watson's marriages: The course of Watson's married life is complex. While he plainly met Mary Morstan no earlier than July 1888, there is the clear implication of his being married in September 1887 and the explicit statement that he was married in March 1888, suggesting that Mary was his second wife. Mary died between 1891 and 1894. Another marriage is suggested for 1903 and supported by Watson's once again living elsewhere. So three marriages is the best bet, not counting events. Ah, another Richard who is a Holmes fan. Yes, Holmes even admitted to having been beaten by a woman (who we know is Irene Adler) in THE FIVE ORANGE PIPS. The actual event took place in A SCANDAL IN BOHEMIA. Recently Carole Nelson Douglas has written a series of books featuring Irene. Mr. rri0189@ibm.net >And let us not forget the theory, accepted by many, that Holmes and Irene Adler had a brief affair in Montenegro (during Holmes's missing years) that resulted in the birth of none other than Nero Wolfe. May I say Sir, Balderdash! A theory accepted only by Saracens. Warren - Did you buy the CD, Yellow Brick Road? If so could you give us a review? Your sure it isn't by Elton John? :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:32:53 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Bear: Any raw internet access provider would be good. Primenet comes to mind. There are probably local ones in your area that are sufficient. Like the proverbial captain, I intend to stick with CompuServe until it is dead and buried (which may be sooner than we think...) Aaron: Your theory is close to Farmer's, in that the two are very old and dried up, kept alive only by magical energy. It sounds reasonable. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 21:14:48 -0800 From: Ken Cope Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 I hoped that if we collectively ignored this bad use of a good title, it would go away, but there are still poor retailers trying to unload this turkey. After MacMall or somesuch catalog company took my order for $60.00 last February and decided they didn't want to deal with anymore disgruntled returns, they withdrew the product and never charged me on the plastic. Since that time, a lone copy had been mouldering on valuable shelf space with no takers until about 3 weeks ago at the Virgin Megastore in downtown SF ($29.95). That money is better spent supporting the work of any of the far greater talents that contribute to this Digest. At least my purchase was tax deductible. Ok, if Tedrow and Roger Baum not only made the game, but did the art and programming... You really don't want me to describe it. Ken Cope Ones & Zeroes SurReal Estate pinhead@ozcot.com Warren H Baldwin wrote: > > The catalog for J & R Computer World in Queen, NY, lists a CD called > Yellow Brick Road, which is put out by a company by the name of Synergy. > The blurb says: "Join the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodsman (sic), and the Lion > for two excursions along the Yellow Brick Road." For Windows, Win95, or > Mac. Stock "number" is SGI YELLOW-C. Cost is $29.95 plus shipping. Run, > don't walk, to your phone and call 1-800-221-8180 anytime, if you have > the $30 to spare. > ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 01:13:43 -0500 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Craig: In answer to your question about the value of the Bounty "Mother Goose in Prose", the first edition (thus) in dj has been bringing $15 to $20 at IWOC auctions. I have been selling it for $15 for some time, and should probably go up a little. So the $20 you paid is fair. The book is rather easy to find, and I have usually paid $8 t0 $11 after my dealer discount. I have at least eight copies on hand in case anyone needs a copy. Ruth: I know that The Wizard of Oz with Montgomery and Stone was playing at the Boston Theater on its (the theater's) 50th Anniversary gala, Sept. 12, 1904. I don't know how long it ran with the original cast. Also, I don't know when it ran in 1911, or with what cast then. Micheal Hearn would probably know. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 06:19:03 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest Cowardly Lion extra edition responses *please post* For those who are interested-- I did respond to Mr Morgan's request for help, and enquired as to what kind of school project needed that sort of information. He answered that his son's science teacher (!) strongly felt that children should be constantly involved in some sort of research project. This teacher had compiled a list of esoteric subjects for his students to research. This year's topic happened to be the Cowardly Lion. By the way, my memory (which may not be accurate) says that the Cowardly Lion was carrying a butterfly net and a Flit gun. This would be appropriate, since (in the original screenplay) they were going up against the Jitterbug. Best, KRS ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 05:16:54 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 Bear: AOL is offering a $19.95/mo. unlimited access deal. Nathan:Shaggy's father: I'm afraid Samuel Mann isn't the name I chose. Ev: Sheesh! *I* dunno how big it is. And I really don't know if it's a continent or not. It's certainly not unusual for the FF to be contradictory, and it's certainly frustrating, isn't it. :) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 05:18:47 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 _Mother Goose in Prose_ in the Bounty reprint should certainly run closer to $20 than to $200. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 12:21:41 PM From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Jeremy Steadman wrote: >I agree; putting Oz in another dimension is the easiest way to >resolve all our location difficulties. However, if we do that, >that's all the more reason for the continent to be called Nonestica, >as it doesn't exist--not in our dimension, at any rate. How, though, >do we explain the fact that so many people arrived there from here? >We still need to work on that. MOPPeT is that a wormhole (or more than one) connect(s) the Ozzy universe with ours...This wormhole has manifested itself in various forms such a cyclone, a whirlpool, or just a quiet, invisible bridge. In my unpublished Sci-Fi novel, my herione makes a visit to Oz after a wrong turn in a wormhole expressway lands her spacecraft and its crew in another universe. ( Okay, I'm ready for you to flame me for plugging another book of mine on the Digest. :) ) ANNIVERSARY: I forget to mention it, but yesterday (12/4) was the First Anniversary of the Ozzy Digest! Yay! :) :) :) OZZY IS NOT OZZY!: Today I received the biggest mistaken subscription request for the Digest yet, although it is one I had half-forseen...Someone wrote asking to subscribe to the Ozzy Digest, saying how glad he was that there was finally a digest devoted to Ozzy Osborne! I have to admit that I have always feared that a connection would be made with Ozzy and "Ozzy", a connection I for one don't want... Billina: Ozma! Ozma! Please send away that strange man with the long hair -- He tried to bite the head off of one of my chicks! Scarecrow: How about calling it the "Ozzie (sic) Digest"? Then at worst we'd be mistaken for a fan club for the Nelsons... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 6, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 16:46:32 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 Bear: I hear of lots of cheap ways to get Internet access - cheapest I've heard of is Flashnet at $99.95/year for unlimited access, which comes to only $8.33/month. OTOH, I can't vouch for how easy it is to use or how reliable access is. AOL's new pricing isn't bad; if you pay for two years in advance you get unlimited access to both the Internet and AOL's in-house features (including up to five 2 Mb Web sites for yourself) for $14.95/month. That's what I use. Except for that one crash everyone knows about earlier this year, I've never had any problem more serious than the occasional E-mail getting lost, and the new software seems to preclude that. (That is, to eliminate the mechanism by which it's happened in the past.) (And one day soon I'll have my own Web site or sites up, I expect. I'll let the Digest know when I do, since one of them will have Oz references.) Nathan: Is that the Spring '96 Bugle you still don't have? It could be that Menankypoo is to Ev as, say, Oogaboo is to Oz - nominally under the control of the central ruler, but in practice completely autonomous. Rich: Carole Nelson Douglas has written a rather fun, though historically inaccurate, series of mysteries featuring Irene Adler; Holmes is important in the first one and he and Watson appear in most if not all of the rest, though they're usually peripheral. Steve: Sounds as if your reaction to WICKED was much like my own. (Although I liked BARNSTORMER better than WICKED; it's not as good a novel, but it's more fun, which is the main thing I read for.) Glad to hear that GLASS CAT is still in stock at Stars Our Destination; that means they must have re-ordered at least once, since their original stock was only two copies and I know who bought both of those. Incidentally, I just heard from Peter Glassman that they're reprinting GC early next year, which pleases me no end. (And the BUGLE with a review of it hasn't even appeared yet - though since I haven't seen the review, I don't know whether it's likely to enhance or depress sales.) rri (I think John Kennedy): Is the Charles Williams who regarded TROILUS AND CRESSIDA as essential to understanding Shakespeare the CW who was a friend of Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, or another one I haven't heard of? Farmer loved/loves taking off from other authors' work; he did Tarzan and Doc Savage as well as Fogg and Oz, at least, and I think a few others. (And of course, Shartz in BARNSTORMER is modeled on Doc S.) Ruth: I suspect the only reason some people in Chicago think "Nikko" might be pronounced "Neeko" is that one of the major hotels downtown is a Japanese-owned one called the Nikko, pronounced "Neeko". But the "Nikko" spelling of a Japanese word is arbitrary, since Japanese isn't written with the Roman alphabet in Japan. And although I don't know Japanese myself, I've been told that all Japanese syllables end in open vowels or "n". (There are Nikko hotels elsewhere as well, but the person asking the question said he was from Chicago.) I doubt if whoever wrote the script for the 1939 movie was thinking of Japanese when he spelled "Nikko". Craig: One of the dealers in the group could give you a more definitive answer, but I'd guess that $20 is a good deal closer to the going price for the Bounty edition of MGIP than $200; I have a copy in about the same condition as yours that I bought used for $8.50 ten or twelve years ago. (Though mine is apparently a 1974 edition, if my interpretation of the LoC catalog number is correct; if yours is 1986 then I suppose they must have reprinted it at least twice - which would probably mean it's even less likely to be worth anything like $200.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:12:23 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Ozzy Digesters: Saw a new book today titled: Munchkins of Oz by Stephen Cox. This is a follow-up to one he published a few years back titled: The Munchkins Remember. It has a lot more really neat photographs, some in full color! For those interested in buying it is published by Cumberland House and the ISBN is 1888952040. It's paperback and cost $18.95. I also received a new Smithsonian Catalogue in the mail today and they have some really nice Oz stuff for sale, including a new set of Oz ornaments. Last, but not least, just in time for Christmas, but you'll have to hurry, I added a new page to my website called "Wizard of Oz Memorabilia Shopper's Directory". It contains names, addresses, and Oz collectibles for sale from the various mail order catalogs that I receive. This is a work in progress so it'll be updated quite often. If anyone has any additional ones, or notes any corrections, please email me via my website. I now have a shorter URL: http://www.geocities.com/~ozfan/ Jim. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:40:46 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 Didn't get my response in to the 12/4 Digest until too late to make the 12/5, so I guess everyone will have to put up with two posts from me. (Get ready to download this one...) Nathan: I suppose Mombi could have used long rubber gloves, if such things were available in Oz in 1925 or so. (Surely there must have been a rubber-glove tree somewhere in Kimbaloo...) Oh, there are quite a few cases of Ozites interfering with kingdoms outside Oz - it's just that most of them were unofficial, including the Tin Woodman's in Stratovania. There are also quite a few cases of kingdoms outside Oz invading Oz - though whether Skamperoo's qualifies as an "invasion", since only he and Chalk actually came to Oz, is questionable. If that counts, then I think you'd have to also include several of Ruggedo's attempts as well - at least the ones in MAGIC, GNOME KING, and PIRATES. But there were full-blown invasions of Oz from outside in EMERALD CITY, OZOPLANING, PIRATES, WONDER CITY, and MAGICAL MIMICS, though only three of those were from places on the continent. Eric: You and Karyl may not care about continuity between QUEEN ANN and other Oz books, but I hope you don't object to other writers observing consistency with it if they want to. Ruth: DON QUIXOTE is another "Great Book" that is founded on dissing a whole school of literature. Jeremy: I think that there are certain characters - the Wizard, Dorothy, Button-Bright, Trot, Peter, Speedy, and Bucky for sure; probably Betsy (though maybe Hank), probably Jam (though possibly Percy) - who are charged with a magic potential and who therefore, at moments of stress, can easily slip from our world to the parallel world in which Oz is located. Those who are with them at the time make the same slip. (The remaining characters who make the transition - Shaggy's brother, Notta, Bob Up, Benny, Jenny Jump, Twink and Tom, Robin and Merry - all seem to have done it under the direct influence of magic, which we know works between worlds because Ozma can transport Dorothy and others back and forth with the Magic Belt.) This, of course, is MOPPeT. But I prefer it to a "wormhole" theory because the latter would require certain individuals (the Wizard, Dorothy, and Speedy at least) to hit a wormhole more than once, when they must be extremely rare or we'd have a lot more missing persons in this world and there'd be a lot more mortals in the Oz world than would be consistent with the FF. Easier, in my view, for the ability to transition to apply to the person rather than space. I wasn't arguing for a land bridge between the continents of Nonestica and Baumgea; I don't personally think any such thing exists, or that there are two separate continents. I was arguing that I didn't think Ev and Oz were on separate continents, but on the same continent whatever one chooses to call it. The map certainly indicates that. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 18:56:14 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 Nathan: Wouldn't it be nice if Oz could "meddle" in all the nations of the world--it'd sure resolve a whole lotta problems! Or would it? Perhaps it would just cause more, as the non-magic world would come into contact with the "Real World". But it's more fun the first way. Dave: Congrats on Ozzy Di's 1st. Also, If we can get to Oz through a wormhole, not a bad theory at all, is it a moving wormhole (the Earth end being in different places at different times)? That would solve a lot of inconsistencies--and also explain how someone can jump in a pool and end up in the briny Nonestic (sorry, another plug for EMERALD RING; I think I'm getting the hang of this now). ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 21:01:03 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Synchronicity Strikes - I called BOW today and was told there was no other Oz Collector since the "Yew" one. They did say there was "a different version of a catalog that went out to a different group, but it was not for Ozzies?" I also learned my order had been shipped on Nov 28th. An hour later there was a knock at the door and there it was. It contained a catalog titled "The Oz Collector" indicating it was the "Introductory Issue," and subtitled "Everything Oz." It apparently lists everything they have in stock that is Ozzy. If you want one their number is 1-800-345-6665. Dave - I think it's great for you to plug your books. Just so we don't get King, Koontz or Oates on the Digest. :) Well, I made my first foray into the WWW and found Tylers page. I learned a lot about Tyler and had a hard time escaping. Next Eric. I found something callet FLASHNET. For unlimited access they charge $99 per year with a one-time $30 setup fee. That's the best I have found yet. If interested call 1-800-FLASH20. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 20:06:27 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 Dave, Talked with Bill Stillman last night. He believes the printer will complete the black and white portion of The Baum Bugle this week. I didn't ask about the completion of the color parts, but I was pleased to know the work is going forward. Eric Gjovaag's advice for those members who are current but have not yet received the Spring 1996 Bugle was good. Please write to Barb Foster The International Wizard of Oz Club P.O. Box 266 Kalamazoo, Michigan 49004-0266 to let her know. Barb spent several weeks in late September/Early October reconciling four separate mailing lists that had developed over the period beginning in September 1995 when Fred Meyer became ill. She discovered perhaps 300 current memberships that had not posted forward. We believe we have re-captured the addresses for all our current members, but this happened just after the Spring Bugle was sent out in October. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 23:08:21 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Nathan: Eric's reply to you shows that there is quite a difference of opinion regarding continuity on the digest. For those of you who are new to the digest, this subject was discussed quite a bit back in February and March. Some of this got a bit heated, and I dubbed it the "HACC" wars. We have grown since then, and I can discuss it tih no fear of fanning the flames. The short answer is that some people think continuity and consistency between Oz books is a good thing and some do not. I am a strong beleiver in consistency, since I think it makes the Oz books work better together and provides a sense of continuity, even though this may not have been intended. It is a worthy goal, although there seems to be no strong desire for it, and most Oz books are very enjoyable on their own terms, although I yearn for what could have been (and still can be). Jeremy: I hope you aren't a wicked witch, and have every cause to hope that you are a good one :-). I don't see a need to drastically redraw the map of the known Ozzy planet. As far as I can tell, nobody is arguing for the existence of two continents called Baumgea AND Nonestica. Tarara is there, and Antozia, but those are far away from the continent of which Oz forms the center. David and Jeremy: My extension to Dave's MOPPeT is that Oz is in a Universe that is much smaller than our own. This is some indirect evidence for this in the FF, as David Hulan will confirm. Anyway, I postulate that we live in a three- dimensional Universe that forms the outer surface of a four dimensional continuum. The Ozzy Universe is inside that continuum. Therefore, the Ozzy Universe is intimately linked with our own, and as such, there may be many wormholes between the two Universes. This works well with my other theory about the endless strange kingdoms being even SMALLER Universes that are also inside our continuum, floating around, so to speak. It sounds complicated, but it solves one of the consistency problems. Namely, how can the Oz people run into different kingdoms so often when they travel in roughly the same places every time? Espcially when they travel known routes and get lost so often? Happy Anniversary to the Ozzy Digest! The total byte count is 7,688,906. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 03:06:59 -0500 (EST) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 I knew I didn't want to know how much the Bounty _Mother Goose in Prose_ should go for. I think that is the only book I have ever regretted buying for my collection. I've always have a gut feeling it was overpriced, and now I know I was right. Granted, it was my mother who payed for it, but she payed four times more than it was worth. Oh well, I suppose that you win some and you lose some. I'm not likely to make a mistake like that again. Ken - you haven't always been pinhead@ozcot, have you? I only now noticed that. I love it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Happy Chanukah! S S U U U U U I U U U U \ \ \ \ I / / / / Gili Bar-Hillel \ \ \ \ I / / / / abhillel@fas.harvard.edu \ \ \ \W/ / / / gili@scso.com L__L__L__W__J__J__J W W W === EEEEE ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 09:10:12 AM From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MORE THOUGHTS ON WORMHOLES: Jeremy has a good idea about moving wormholes, and I do consider this a possibility. I also think Tyler may be right that there are more than one -- After all, Dorothy is in Kansas when she is "blown" to Oz, whereas Elvera, the heroine of my sci-fi novel, is on the other side of the Galaxy. The Ozzy Universe may indeed be smaller than ours -- in fact, just before Elvera reaches Oz, she finds herself in a VERY small (no larger than an asteroid) universe whose only contents is a single small planet covered with tree-like vegetation, and a bunch of wormholes to elsewhere...Elvera indentifies THIS place as C.S. Lewis' "Wood Between the Worlds"... I imagine Oz though to be in a universe roughly the same as ours, with differences, since it is a "parallel" universe...For instance, Earth's Ozzy parallel may have more than one moon, including Anuther "Planet" and the moon (much nearer to Earth than Luna) visited by Mr. Tinker. The rest of the Solar System however, at least as I present it in _Locasta_, is pretty much like ours, and may even be linked to ours, as I use magical doings by the villians in Oz to explain how at the time the story takes place (1992 or '93) Neptune lost its "Great Dark Spot" and Saturn suddenly sported a "Great White Spot"... Another important trait of the Ozzy universe as I see it is that while we don't know for sure yet whether our universe is "open" or "closed", the Ozzy universe is definitely open (no "big crunch" in Oz's future), and the Alfven-Lerner Plasma Cosmological alternative to the Big Bang theory definitely applies to Oz's universe (no "heat death" in Oz's future either), so Oz really is guaranteed to endure forever! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 7 - 8, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 13:41:10 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-06-96 David: I think we have it--your suggestion, that Dorothy, the Wiz, et al have some sort of "charge" whereby they tend to slip into Oz at moments of stress, explains how they come to Oz as much as they do over the course of the books and also leaves room for others do so the same (as they are surely not the only ones with similar polarity). Re your correction on my interpretation of your argument concerning Nonestica / Baumega / Imagination: How do we know the map is accurate? Tyler: Did you read me say I was a wicked witch? If so, that must have been my colleague Kiex's influence trying to spoil my reputation (ask Chris Dulabone). While I agree that perhaps I'm the only one suggesting that redrawing the Oz world MIGHT be necessary, I don't think we would hurt any feelings if we did (the map being only a representation the way we envision it, anyway). After all, what's to say the map's right now? Gili B-H: Thank you! Attending an almost exclusively Christian college (after living in an almost if not completely exclusively Christian town), it's nice to hear words like yours (I'm Jewish). Dave: For another "Wood between world"-type place, look to the sequel to EMERALD RING, to be published as soon as Chris gathers the necessary money (such are the disadvantages of living in the Real World). Also, I thought we were pretty sure there IS going to be a "big crunch" for our universe, although I'm no science major. I do prefer, if so, to believe you that there will be no such occurence for Oz. Until next time, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 15:10 -0600 (CST) From: gbirrell@post.cis.smu.edu (Gordon Birrell) Subject: Ozzy Digest Here is a question on a passage in _Scarecrow of Oz_: when the Ork finds Captain Bill metamorphosed into a grasshopper, he asks him: "Do you give molasses?", and Captain Bill answers, "I guess I'm not that kind of grasshopper." Does anyone have any idea what this means? I vaguely recall that the word grasshopper used to refer to some kind of engine with a grasshopper-like piston arm, but I'm totally mystified as to the connection with molasses. Also from _Scarecrow_ (and I think this comes up elsewhere, too, maybe in _Tik-Tok_): the narrator (Baum?) states unequivocally that Dorothy introduced Ozma to both the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger. But surely this cannot be, since Ozma is speeding across the Deadly Desert in a chariot drawn by both the lion and the tiger when Dorothy sees her for the first time (in _Ozma of Oz_). Continuity experts, help me out! Jim: The Wizard of Oz Memorabilia Shopper's Directory at your web site looks great. A lot of people should find this chart very useful. Kenneth: I also thought that the Cowardly Lion's Flit gun and butterfly net might have been part of the original conception involving the Jitterbug sequence. But how was the lion supposed to have known in advance that the WWW was going to send out an evil insect to attack them? Maybe he thought the Witch herself could be captured with these "weapons"--the only time he had ever seen her before, she was a remote figure up in the air doing her sky-writing routine and from that distance actually looked a lot like a big black insect. Has anyone else noticed, incidentally, the way the Witch duplicates commercial flight patterns by circling her castle once before she finally heads off for the Emerald City? Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 16:34:28 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-06-96 David: Yes, it is the Spring Bugle that I did not receive. I shall probably write to the Club. Your view on Menankypoo makes sense. Personally, I think that the Red Jinn's Dominions are also under Evardo's rule. My own theory of Ev history states that Eastern Ev was once ruled by Evaltho, the cousin of the current King of Ev. Evaltho attempted to conquer the entire land of Ev, but he was stopped, with Jinnicky being a major player in the thwarting of Evaltho's plans. The Red Jinn was then given reign over Eastern Ev. Maybe Mombi did wear rubber gloves when working with water. Tyler: A smaller Universe than ours? Well, since many people think that our Universe is infinite, it would not be too difficult to find something smaller. I prefer there to be continuity between the different works in the Oz series. I realize that Baum often contradicted himself, and that authors are not always familiar with all of what was written before their own stories, but I think that an author should provide continuity whenever he or she can. David and Jeremy: I really do not know about Oz being located in another Universe. I realize that there is not really enough space on Earth for three extra continents, so there may be some merit in the theory that Oz is in another dimension, but not on entirely different planet in a different Solar System. There seems to be too much proof that it is on our Earth. I cannot think of too many examples at the moment, but, in _Runaway_, Fanny sends weather to the Andes and the South Pacific. Anuther Planet is probably somewhere in or near the Milky Way Galaxy, but I am not entirely sure where. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 16:44:20 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-06-96 Yes, the Charles Williams I mentioned was the Inkling. Specifically, I was referring to his "The English Poetic Mind". // John W Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 23:01:51 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 The Cowardly Lion weapons in the MGM film are--a butterfly net and a flit gun labeled "Witch Remover." :) :) :) Most of the time, the words on the flit gun do not show at all.... David Hulan: Well, I sprung for "The Beekeeper's Apprentice" once I began to read it at the bookstore. So far Mary Russell seems to fit my description of ideal partner for Holmes. :-) She does not tolerate his arrogance at the start of their very first meeting, and she does make him respect her intelligence! But she says, "I am a feminist..." Did that term exist in 1915, the time 'Apprentice' begins? I had heard the term 'suffragist" before I started high school in 1968, but not "feminist." A Victorian girl could have said, "I am a suffragist.." or "I believe in equal rights for women..." without jarring my suspension of disbelief. Mary seems more a modern girl transported back to Victorian times. :-) And bee stings as a treatment for rheumatism? Isn't that a recent development, too? The book has been a delightful read otherwise, and it can certainly pass muster with a casual Holmes reader. Now let's hear from a hard-core Holmes fan...! :-D Oh, yes. To seem as if it were truly written in or about that era--one big fad of the Victorian era was the (debunked) theory of physiognomy, the "science" of judging a person's character simply from studying his facial features. The Holmes canon is full of it. :-) Hopefully, for reality's sake, the author will include such antiquated notions in "Beekeeper's Apprentice." That was one big fault with "Barnstormer in Oz." The hero knew more about modern science than a 1920's or 30's man should have. I destroyed my copy a long time ago (yecccch! :-P), so cannot look up examples. But someone else who noted that problem said the hero mentions genetic engineering. By the way, anybody who spots such anachronisms in SBM1 is welcome to publicly embarrass me with them. I like to avoid such mistakes with my writing. Some SBM1 owners may have noticed that my Sorcerer-Botanist is aware of the laws of heredity, but not of genetics. SBM1 begins when the word 'gene' has not been invented. (Or lifted from the words geneaology, or generation) At least I cannot find 'gene' in my old Thesaurus, published in the 1920's. Disturbingly, it does not even list the then-existing word 'suffragette'! Perhaps Victorian literature cannot be trusted as to how real Victorians behaved. One lady of that era submitted a story called "The Lucky Piece" to Victorian editors. The story was autobiographical, based on her *real* miserable childhood with abusive parents. But the editors rejected it, saying, "It is *unrealistic*(!) Parents never hurt their children."! Victorians were apparently in deep denial.... Bear: More arguments? Well, there they are above. :) :) Perhaps I should've sprinkled my last post to you with more of these. :) :) :-) :-) Have you ordered those back issues of Oziana yet? :-) Or are most or all of them out of print? I had to buy the one with Berman's Holmes story at an Oz convention. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 23:56:32 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Wormholes (or _DS9 in Oz_): It is very possible that both theories are true. On one hand, we have wormholes floating around out there, and certain people have a slight magical charge about them, for some unexplained reason. While this does not convey the ability to practice magic, it does have the side effect of drawing a wormhole, like a moth to a flame, during periods of high emotional activity. Jeremy: It seems likely that the wormholes are moving at both ends. Bear: Glad you finally got to my page. Hope the stuff you learned was good. Dave: If Elvera really got to the Wood between the Worlds, I hope she climbs a tree and tells us what she sees! :-) I just had a thought. If my theory is correct, that is, the Oz Universe is inside the four-dimensional continuum of which OUR Universe forms the surface, and if our Universe will shrink back to a microscopic particle, then Oz is in trouble, unless Glinda comes up with a solution in a billion years or so... :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 22:33:39 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-06-96 > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 > > Eric: > You and Karyl may not care about continuity between QUEEN ANN and other Oz > books, but I hope you don't object to other writers observing consistency > with it if they want to. Of course not. But nobody should expect a ringing endorsement from us, either. BTW, how is it that "Glass Cat" warrents a reprint already? I don't think the initial run of "Queen Ann" (*BTW, EVERYBODY, NOTE THE SPELLING, NO "E" ON THE END OF ANN!* [/me now calms down]) has sold out yet, even though it's been out about three years now. > From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> > Subject: Oz > > The short answer is that some people think continuity and consistency > between Oz books is a good thing and some do not. Then there are those of us who don't really have an opinion one way or another. --Eric "Hey, when's the 'Bugle' going to review 'Queen Ann'?" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 11:46:38 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-06-96 Jeremy: I'm not sure how much good it would do for Oz to "meddle" in the affairs of this world; there are some national leaders out there who make Ruggedo look like Ozma by comparison. And they're not vulnerable to eggs, either... Bear: Whoever you talked to at BoW didn't know whereof he or she spoke. There's an Oz Collector, Vol. I, No. 24, dated Autumn 1996, that definitely appeared after the "Yew" one. Tyler: I'll buy your theory that the Ozzy universe is smaller than the one we live in. As I said last Digest, though, MOPPeT is that there aren't pre-existing "wormholes", but that certain fairly rare individuals have the capacity (generally unconscious) to open gates between the universes. (If you want to call those gates "wormholes", fine.) This can easily be extended to your smaller sub-universes, since for the most part the characters who find themselves in those obscure little towns that pepper Oz are the same ones who make the transition from this world to Oz (although it's probably necessary to add Kabumpo to the list for that purpose). I don't think there's actually any need to invoke the smaller sub-universes to cover the FF, but to provide room for all the post-FF books that may eventually be written it might be a good idea. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 12:38:04 -0500 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Lion of Oz I had mentioned this to a couple of people over the phone, but I think I never went public with it. I talked to Mrs. Roger Baum, and his latest 250+ page novel, *The Lion of Oz and the Badge of Courage* is to be printed by the 10th or 11th. It will be available exclusively through the MGM Grand. I think I recall someone listing it as available from another bookstore some time ago, but according to YBR, it hasn't even been printed yet... Anyway, if anyone wants it (I know that Roger's work has had a LOT of negative discussion on past digests, so I am not intending this as a personal recommendation, at least not 'til I have read it myself), wait 'til after the 11th and call 1-800-929-9414, and be prepared to drop $24.98 on a Credit Card (which, if you're as broke as I am, you will be making payments on until the year 4565768797... ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 17:58:52 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: oz tapes if anyone is looking for baums original movies from the 20s i know where all 3 are avaialbae the patchwork girl of oz,the magic cloak of oz,his majesty the scarecrow of oz plus the 1925 version of larry semons wizard of oz these include new digital scores and narration to help bridge the gap from the silent era if your intrested in these email me privatly they are 12.95 each or all 4 for 35.00 plus shipping hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 20:12:04 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MANY UNIVERSES: Jeremy wrote: >Also, I thought we were pretty sure there IS going to be a "big >crunch" for our universe, although I'm no science major. I do >prefer, if so, to believe you that there will be no such occurence >for Oz. The evidence seems to indicate that there is vastly insufficient matter in the universe to stop the galactic expansion and "close" the universe into an eventual "big crunch", though the astronomers are still searching for the "missing mass" that they say will tip the scales in favor of a universe only marginally open or closed. No sign of this "missing mass" has turned up, but that doesn't stop the astronomers... :) CONTINUITY AND ANACHRONISMS: Gordon B. wrote: >Also from _Scarecrow_ (and I think this comes up elsewhere, too, maybe in >_Tik-Tok_): the narrator (Baum?) states unequivocally that Dorothy >introduced Ozma to both the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger. But surely >this cannot be... I think we'd have to agree this is another Baum boo-boo, like his assertion in _Tik-Tok_ that Glinda lives in the NORTH! Melody wrote: >Some SBM1 owners may have noticed that my Sorcerer-Botanist is >aware of the laws of heredity, but not of genetics. SBM1 begins when the >word 'gene' has not been invented. (Or lifted from the words geneaology, or >generation) At least I cannot find 'gene' in my old Thesaurus, published >in the 1920's. Mendel's experiments with garden peas began in 1856 (about the time the Wizard came to Oz) and he published his paper of his genetic discoveries _Experiments with Plant Hybrids_ in 1865...So Zim could very well be familiar with planet genetics. Don't worry too much about anachonisms though -- they abound in classic literature (isn't there a point in _Julius Caesar_ where someone consults a clock?)... DIGEST LOGO: Well, after many long, hard weeks of procrastinating :) I have finished my proposed graphic logo for the Digest. It is on my Ozzy Digest web page at: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Ozzy_FAQ.html Let me know what you think of it. I also have new, sharper (rendered on my new PC) images of Emerald City and Mount Flathead. See the above page and http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Oz.html -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 9 - 10, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 02:55:05 -0500 (EST) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 Jeremy - For yet ANOTHER "wood between the worlds" type place, read. _The Lives of Christopher Chant_ by Dianna Wynne Jones. And generally, read books by Dianna Wynne Jones. I have often sung her praises here before, and I know that I am not the only digest subscriber who is a DWJ fan, but this is worth repeating every once in a while. The nice thing about Chanukah is that it is not yet over, so you get to see my Chanukiya (special Chanukah menorah, or candelebra) at least one more time. :-) (the not-nice thing about Chanukah is that I still have not decided how to spell it in English. I'm sure Barry and Aaron have a fascinatingly different yet utterly consistent way of spelling it. And speaking of the brothers Adelman, it's been a while since either of you have posted here - where are you?) Gordon Birrell - my grasshopper-hunting days are long gone, but I still distinctly remember that a grasshopper's typical reaction to being caught is to spit up a nasty-looking brown excretion, at which point 5 out of 7 human grasshopper catchers will exclaim "ewww!" and open their sticky palms, allowing the relieved grasshopper to hop back to his grass. I would assume that at some point or other someone thought to name this excretion "molasses". It looks like molasses, though I somehow doubt it tastes like molasses. (I may have even tested this at one point. I used to be one of the 2 out of 7 humans who would cling to their grasshoppers at all expenses, inspecting it with rapture) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Happy Chanukah! S U S S S S U U U U I U U U U \ \ \ \ I / / / / Gili Bar-Hillel \ \ \ \ I / / / / abhillel@fas.harvard.edu \ \ \ \W/ / / / gili@scso.com L__L__L__W__J__J__J W W W === EEEEE ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 09:02:43 -0500 From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: Your Ozzy Digest FAQ Graphic Dave: I just checked out your Ozzy Digest logo on our website. It's terrific! You did a great job. I don't know if this has fallen by the wayside or if this is your intention but, are you going to reproduce this for Ozzy Digesters onto a T-Shirt or button? If so, I would be interested. I didn't respond to this before. But, after seeing your results, I would be interested if this were to be the design for either the T-Shirt or the button. Check this out everyone!! Jim. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 14:34:23 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 Melody: Oz is a land of anachronisms. It is much less techologically advanced than the United States in some ways, and much more advanced in others. In my opinion, it is more important to avoid anachronisms when talking about the Outside World than in Oz itself. The mentions of Skylab in "Umbrella Island in Oz" come to mind. Dave: Yes, Baum did say that Glinda lived in the north in _Tik-Tok_. It was just a little mistake, though. He was only two letters off! Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 15:19:21 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 Jeremy: We don't, of course, know that any of the Oz maps are accurate - the most "official" one, on the endpapers of TIK-TOK, is clearly in error when it puts several of the underground kingdoms encountered in DOTWIZ on the continent of Baumgea. But map or not, there is ample textual evidence that Oz and Ev have a long land boundary. (Although in OZMA Ev is said to be opposite the Munchkin Country, in all the others it's opposite the Winkie Country, possibly edging around to the Gillikin Country. The maps from the IWOC represent the best consensus of Oz scholars, and I think should be accepted in the absence of strong evidence to the contrary.) I don't think there's any consensus as to whether there's going to be a "big crunch" in the future of our universe. As I recall, the current data indicates that the expansion rate of the universe is right at the critical one where if it's a little less, there will eventually be a big crunch, and if it's a little more, it will continue to expand indefinitely. (Or if it's exactly the critical value, the expansion will slow and slow and stop completely after aleph-null years...) And the noise level of the information we have is such that it's impossible to tell which is the true case. Gordon: You're obviously a city boy. :-) If you'd played around with grasshoppers when you were a kid, you'd know that if you squeeze one gently on its thorax, it will emit a rather disgusting smelly brown goop out of its mouth. Where I lived we called it "spitting tobacco juice", but I'm quite sure the Ork's "giving molasses" referred to the same phenomenon, which is familiar to all small children who live where grasshoppers are common. Baum obviously forgot that Dorothy didn't meet the Hungry Tiger until after he had become a settled resident of the Emerald City. But if you want to make a real effort toward consistency, you could say that the Hungry Tiger was the same tiger the travelers encountered near the end of WIZARD (who persuaded the Cowardly Lion to kill the giant spider). That would mean he met Dorothy first of any of the Oz humans, but then neither he nor Dorothy remembered this at the time of their first encounter in OZMA, so it was only later, after comparing notes offstage, that they realized that they were really old friends. Nathan: Neill's books are the hardest to reconcile with almost any consistent theory of Oz, but I think it not unreasonable to assume that the weather sent out in RUNAWAY passes into our world by magic, not by normal convection. Unless you decide to totally ignore statements in some of the "canonical" books, it's really impossible to come up with a site for its continent on our globe. Melody: Yes, there are a few anachronisms in THE BEEKEEPER'S APPRENTICE, but I found it an excellent book anyhow. (I don't know when the term "feminist" first appeared, but I think you're right that it was more recently than the teens of this century.) I don't think Victorian literature in general can be trusted to reveal how children were commonly treated - especially Victorian children's literature. Some of Dickens' works might be more realistic. On the other hand, I think that in modern times the pendulum may have swung too far the other way; I suspect that the percentage of abused children in modern American literature is higher than it is in the population as a whole. Tyler: Could be that the wormholes are there and that the magically-charged just attract one end of them. I can live with that. Eric: Maybe GLASS CAT sold better than QUEEN ANN? :-) Actually, I suspect that the reason it's getting reprinted soon is based on the fact that Borders is now carrying the ECP line; even if each store only orders a couple of copies, that will sell out a short print run pretty fast. If you check with Peter you might find that QUEEN ANN is also scheduled for reprinting soon (or may even be at the printer's now). I distinctly remember the Bugle reviewing QUEEN ANN not too long after it came out. I'd have to spend some time looking for the review, though. Or did I just dream it? (It's hard to imagine that you'd have missed it, but I remember a quite favorable review at some point, and I think it was in the Bugle. Where else would I have read one?) Dave: Mendel published his results in 1865, but in an obscure journal where they were ignored until well into the 20th century. However, Zim might have been one of the few who read his paper when it appeared... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 16:22:16 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 G. Birril: >Here is a question on a passage in _Scarecrow of Oz_: when the Ork finds Captain Bill metamorphosed into a grasshopper, he asks him: "Do you give molasses?", and Captain Bill answers, "I guess I'm not that kind of grasshopper." Does anyone have any idea what this means? I vaguely recall that the word grasshopper used to refer to some kind of engine with a grasshopper-like piston arm, but I'm totally mystified as to the connection with molasses.< Haven't squeezed many live grasshoppers, have you, city boy? :-) :-) :-) I grew up in the country, and when you pick up and squeeze a grasshopper, dark, brown liquid oozes out of its jaws. It's not real molasses, but it looks like it, and a grasshopper is said to be "giving molasses" when it drools the stuff. Can any entymologists out there explain why a grasshopper does this? (Cap'n Bill probably had too much dignity, even as a grasshopper, to drool dark brown stuff out of his mouth.) Dorothy could have met the Hungry Tiger in Wizard of Oz. In the Quadling forests, it is a big tiger who tells them about the Spider Monster that is eating and terrorizing all the animals, and begs the Cowardly Lion to help them. This tiger could very have been our Hungry Tiger. Dave: Hmm. Guess I'll have to consult Mendell... He did discover the laws of heredity, which was the start of the science of genetics, but are you certain he discovered the cause of heredity too? I didn't think they had microscopes that powerful back then.... Okay, I just looked up the subject in a desk encyclopedia. Mendell discovered genetic law--did he call it genetic law, Dave?--but the brief entry about him does not say he discovered the genes themselves. Genetic engineering, as in gene splicing, not breeding, seems to date back to 1973, but not earlier. So Farmer made a big anachronistic boo-boo in if he had his barnstormer know about genetic engineering back in the 30's and 40's. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 13:22:36 -0800 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Looked at your FAQ page again today, Dave, and a very good Digest logo! We picked the right man for the job, I guess. It did take a little long to download, though. Also, the way the photo was interlaced, the yellow road was built seemingly brick by brick! I don't know if you planned it, but it was a nice added effect. One more thing, maybe you could hyper-text the FAQ questions, so that someone doesn't have to scroll down if they want to look up just a couple of questions. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 18:00:14 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 Priority: normal Gordon: No offense, but I think that we should look to Oz as per Baum, the movie being merely the representation thereof to members of the non-Oz world. (I'm a purist in that sense.) Incidentally, though, I hadn't noticed the similarity to modern aviation myself (I'm unobservant). Nathan: I don't think rubber gloves would be enough to shield a witch from water (as rubber was once a living plant). Who says Oz's universe isn't infinite? We, after all, have only explored a fraction of ours--I don't think we can safely assume that the Oz, Ev, etc., of the FF is all there is to that universe, any more than the universe of the 19th century was all there was to ours. Yes, it makes sense that Oz would be on a parallel Earth; there are people who look like us, who presumably talk the same language as we do (since visitors to Oz can understand what they say). On the other hand, perhaps when someone enters that dimension, the visitor instantly begins to understand Ozzish, or perhaps everyone can understand what is said there because Oz is as magical as it undoubtedly is. Tyler: Who says Oz is INSIDE our universe? Since it has magic, and lots of other stuff we don't, perhaps it's OUTSIDE -- and we're INSIDE, a mere copy of the real world (a sort of disturbing theory, in a way). David: See my note to Tyler above. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 23:18:34 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 12-07-96 *please post* Gordon Birrell--Re: Grasshoppers. I _think_ (I can't verify it with the sources I have available here) that some grasshoppers excrete a sticky molassas-like substance. I seem to remember someone showing grasshoppers spitting as a defense mechanism, which may be what the Scarecrow is referring to. Interested parties--Re: Chronologies: Here is the chronology for THE WIZARD OF OZ (long promised). Day 1 - Cyclone - Dorothy & Toto carried off. (an unknown amount of time--Baum says "hour after hour"--passes while Dorothy is carried in the cyclone. I assume about 12 hours.) Day 2 - Dorothy arrives in the land of the Munchkins - meets Witch of the North - night in Boq's house Day 3 - Dorothy encounters the Scarecrow - the three enter the great forest - night in Tin Woodman's cottage Day 4 - The party rescues the Tin Woodman - they encounter the Cowardly Lion - night in forest "under a large tree" Day 5 - The party crosses the great ditch - they meet the Kalidahs - they come to the river - Tin Woodman makes a raft - night on river bank Day 6 - The party crosses the river - the Scarecrow is marooned - they enter the field of poppies in afternoon (the Tin Woodman wants to reach the Yellow Brick Road before dark) & are rescued by the field mice - night in farmhouse in Emerald City area (everything is green) Day 7 - The party comes to the Emerald City in afternoon - night in Palace Day 8 - Dorothy meets the Great Oz Day 9 - The Scarecrow meets the Great Oz Day 10 - The Tin Woodman meets the Great Oz Day 11 - The Cowardly Lion meets the Great Oz Day 12 - The party leaves the Emerald City to find the Wicked Witch of the West - attack by wolves in afternoon - night in open field Day 13 - The party is attacked by crows, bees, & Winkies - Winged Monkeys attack Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, carry Dorothy, Toto & Lion to Witch's castle Days 14-21 At this point the captivity of Dorothy and the Cowardly Lion begins. Some days & nights pass - enough so that Dorothy and the Lion can begin plotting their escape. I assume a minimum of a week. Day 22 - Dorothy melts the Wicked Witch - she frees the Lion and the Winkies - they start off in search of the Tin Woodman Day 23 - They find the Tin Woodman Days 24-26 - The Winkies work "for three days and four nights" to restore the Tin Woodman - the party starts off in search of the Scarecrow Day 27 - They find the Scarecrow after walking "all that day and part of the next" Day 28 - The Scarecrow is restored Days 28-30 - The reunited party spends "a few happy days" at the Witch's castle Day 31 - The party leaves for the Emerald City - night in field Days 32-35 - The party is lost - "day by day passed away" Day 36 - The Queen of the Field Mice suggests using the Golden Cap - the party is carried to the gates of the Emerald City by the Winged Monkeys Days 37-39 - They wait for the Wizard to receive them Day 40 - Oz receives the party at 9:04 AM - he is exposed as a humbug Day 41 - The Scarecrow receives his brains, the Tin Woodman his heart, and the Cowardly Lion his courage Days 42-44 - "For three days Dorothy heard nothing from Oz." Day 45 - "On the fourth day" Oz announces his plans to leave with Dorothy in a balloon Days 46-48 - "It took three days" to sew the balloon together Day 49 - Oz departs Day 50 - Council of the party ("on the morning after the balloon had gone up") - they decide to visit Glinda Day 51 - The party leaves for Glinda's palace - night in field Day 52 - They enter the forest of fighting trees - they enter the China Country - the Cowardly Lion defeats the monster spider - they cross the hill of the Hammerheads - Glinda sends Dorothy home In his Oz books Baum is not always clear about the passage of time, and WIZARD is not as tightly plotted as other books in the series. This chronology should not be taken as conclusive. I have had to base it in part on my own perceptions of what goes on in the story. It is clear, though, that more days pass in WIZARD than in any other Oz book I know. Best, KRS ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 19:54:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Miscellania on Oz 1) On redrawing the map of Oz's world, as far as I can see the current map (found in the Del Rey editions of Thompson's books) is wrong. Shouldn't Ev be only a few kilometers wide near Evna, and shouldn't Pingaree be near Phreex? 2) On the location of Anuther Planet, I had assumed that just as Lurline's World/Nonestica was a parallel of Earth, Anuther would be a parallel of Mars or Venus. 3) On wormholes, probably not involved, but seeing that people who have been to Lurline's World once tend to go back again, I would guess that probably enchantment plays a part in repeat visits. Anyone can fall into a wormhole, but no one has reported a wormhole (and they do have a distinctive appearance) in any Oz book I've read, even the truly heretical ones. However, seeing that magic can work on Earth, what would stop the Magic Machine (assuming you accept its existence) from taking an interest in certain people and bringing them back to Lurline's World whenever it wanted to? ("Gregor Samsa awoke one morning to find himself transported into West Antozia.") Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 22:36:37 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: An Ozzy Holiday Tree We haven't put up a tree in many years, but our new house in Illinois has a bay window that is ideal for the purpose, so my wife was able to overcome my normal bahhumbuggery of the season and get one this year. At least it's Ozzy. For starters, the two outer lights of the bay window have, as they have had from the time we moved in, a piece of Ozzy stained glass in each - Tik-Tok and the Nome King on one side and the Glass Cat, Ojo, and the Woozy on the other. So they frame the tree, which is behind the two inner lights. Then a stained-glass Ozma hangs near the top, and a set of ceramic ornaments from the Smithsonian of the Fab Four are tastefully arranged in a cascade down the side of the tree facing into the room. (I don't know whose version these are modeled on - the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman actually are pretty close to Vladimirsky's illustrations for Volkov's WIZARD, but the Dorothy is quite different from his Elly. She looks more like the Dorothy from Roger Baum's DOROTHY OF OZ than any of the other versions I'm familiar with. Does anyone familiar with these figures know whose illustrations they're derived from? Or are they original to the creator of the figures?) The _piece de resistance_, however, is at the peak of the tree. Now, if my Ozma stained glass ornament were suitable for bottom-mounting, she'd certainly have pride of place, but it's only practical to suspend her from the top, which doesn't work for a top ornament. So we may well have the only tree in the world where at the peak, instead of the traditional star or angel, the Wicked Witch of the West (movie version) is riding her broomstick up there... ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 23:48:29 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Jeremy: WHile the map itself may not be drawn to scale as exactly as our maps are today, I tink there is enough evidence in and out of the FF to say that in general, it is fairly good. We know for a fact that most of the major countries are indeed on the same continent as Oz. Ev borders on the Deadly Desert, for example, so that we know Ev really is on Baumgea, and by extension so are many other countries. While it can be argued that some tiny details need to be tinkered with, a major redrawing of the map as we know it would be unnecessary and would contradict tons of evidence in and out of the FF. Gordon: Any mention of Dorothy intoducing the Lion and Tiger to Ozma must be an error, since Dorothy saw them riding across the deadly desert on the magic carpet. There is some question regarding the details of the meeting between the Lion, the Tiger and Ozma, as the accounts given in _Mysterious Chronicles_ and _Enchanted Emeralds_ are slightly different. The HACC lords are working on this. However, the Lion and Tiger must have met Ozma between _Land_ and _Ozma_. Also, Dorothy did not meet the Tiger until _Ozma_, unless the Tiger that we met in the forest in _Wizard_ really was the Hungry Tiger himself, as some people suggest. Nathan: Jinnicky has been called "The Red Jinn of Ev", so your theory is possible. Nathan again: Those of us who believe Oz to be in a parallel dimension or Universe also believe, for the most part, that the Ozzy world and our Earth are intimately linked together, so that events in one can have a strong effect on another. It is "just next door", multidimensionally speaking. That is why I like to believe that the Ozzy Universe is so small, perhaps not much bigger than our own Solar System. In this way, it can be "attached" to Earth, and can be considered a part it, in a manner of speaking. Melody: While Hank Stover (the main character in _Barnstormer_, for those of you in Rio Linda) did not betray a post 1920's knowledge of science, in my opinion he much more than he should have, considering that he was a young pilot in his 20's. DAvid: There is no real need for free-standing gateways, although there is no evidence one way or the other. I'll buy your assertation that the vast majority of travel between worlds has been due to certain people's magical charge creating a temporary gateway. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 11:16:58 -0600 From: Richard_Tuerk@tamu-commerce.edu (Richard Tuerk) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 In aa digest from 6 Dec 1996, Gordon Birrell asked: >Here is a question on a passage in _Scarecrow of Oz_: when the Ork finds >Captain Bill metamorphosed into a grasshopper, he asks him: "Do you give >molasses?", and Captain Bill answers, "I guess I'm not that kind of >grasshopper." Does anyone have any idea what this means? I vaguely recall >that the word grasshopper used to refer to some kind of engine with a >grasshopper-like piston arm, but I'm totally mystified as to the connection >with molasses. I assumed as I read the passage that Baum was using molasses the way we used to use the word tobacco in connection with grasshoppers. Some of the bigger grasshoppers, we used to say, spit tobacco because of the brown liquid substance that they could produce out of their mouths. It does look a little like tobacco juice, and it also looks a little like molasses. That however, is just a guess at the meaning. Does anyone know if grasshoppers are anywhere spoken of as spitting molasses? The other definitions of grasshopper I've been able to find--one is a kind of light airplane and the other is a lever in a piano--don't give me any information that I can use to figure out what Baum's meaning is. Rich Tuerk ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:59:32 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Jeremy Steadman: like you, I like David Hulan's suggestion of some kind of magical charge that makes Dorothy and others more likely to fall through to Ozlands. I'd suggest as a possibility, though, that they might not need to have a "magic potential" to begin with -- the experience of being in Oz might leave them "charged" so that they are much more likely to go through another time. Gordon Birrell: I think it was Dan Mannix who explained the "molasses" -- grasshoppers spit a brown fluid, and in Baum's time that was jocularly called giving molasses. I'll try to remember to look for the passage that says Dorothy introduced Ozma to the Cowardly Lion and Hungry Tiger to be sure, by recollection is that Dorothy is described as having "discovered" them -- which would be basically correct (assuming the Hungry Tiger is the one they meet in "Wizard" in the Quadling country). Gili Bar-Hillel: The play touting itself as having an actual mill onstage -- sounds like the sort of stunt David Belasco would have been pulling then. David Hulan: Watson's multiplying wives come from (over) enthusiastic BSI speculations. Conanical #1 is Mary Morstan, married in 1887 or 1888 and dead by 1894, when Watson moves back in with Holmes in Baker Street. Conanical #2 is the one around 1902 Holmes mentions, for whom Watson "had deserted" him. The speculations are for an 1887 wife to explain the varying marriage-time dates and for an 1896 wife to explain a story about then in which Watson is not living in Baker Street. A sorry example of how widely the Gold Standard=Yellow Brick theory has come to be taken for fact -- a reviewer for "Small Press Review," reviewing a book of baseball stories published this year by the U of W. Alabama, quotes the author as worrying that 1940 Carolina baseball teams may be too obscure a topic to interest anybody now, and remarks cheerily "The Wizard of Oz" still works even though Bryan and McKinley are long forgotten. Yes, I sent in a letter with a correction. I tend to think that the unquestioning acceptance of Littlefield's theory represents a general American belief that fiction of any sort is pretty much worthless, and especially children's fiction, unless you can "justify" it by having it turn out to be secretly about something "real" and "serious." Bah humbug. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 20:26:29 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Twoday's Oz Growls The chating about C.S. Lewis' "Wood Between the Worlds" reminded me that William Morris wrote a great piece of fantasy called "The Wood Beyond The World." Even better were "The Well At The Worlds End" and "The Water of the Wonderous Isles." They were all reprinted in paperback during fantasy's golden age in the early 1970's by Ballantine. You can still find them in good used book stores. Gordon - I can see you have never picked up a grasshopper. When I was a cub we called it tobacco juice not molasses. To be specific, its what the grasshopper leaves in your hand when you pick him up. Its nontoxic as far as I know. Melody and Eric - You will have to forgive me. I have been embroiled in celebrating my birthday and other events and have fallen far behind on everything, especially correspondence. I do have Ozianas for 80 and 84, but will have to beg, borrow or steal 76 and 78. Is there someone who would like to trade a xerox of the Holmesish stories in 80 and 84 for those in 76 and 78? I can't imagine IWOOC still has them available. By the way, Melody, if you really enjoy "The Beekeeper's Apprentice," (which I will try to read next) you should know Laurie King wrote a sequel titled, "A Monstrous Regiment of Women." Now that title should certainly sting your imagination! Oh, and the bee stings for arthritis is an old fashioned remedy IIRC. One that would not be popular with Robin. :) Seasons greetings, Bear (:<) Thank you David, I will "pulse" BOW again! ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday, December 10, 1996 2:07:46 AM From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Jim W. wrote: >I just checked out your Ozzy Digest logo on our website. It's terrific! >You did a great job. I don't know if this has fallen by the wayside or >if this is your intention but, are you going to reproduce this for Ozzy >Digesters onto a T-Shirt or button? If so, I would be interested. I >didn't respond to this before. But, after seeing your results, I would >be interested if this were to be the design for either the T-Shirt or >the button. Check this out everyone!! Thanks for your comments! Yes, I still want to go ahead and turn this into a T-shirt-and-button project, if anyone is willing to do it... Danny wrote: >Looked at your FAQ page again today, Dave, and a very good Digest logo! >We picked the right man for the job, I guess. Thanks! As I said, I am still looking for someone knowledgable in T-shirts and badges to implement my logo. :) >It did take a little long to download, though. It *is* big--122K even after reduction from 1.6x10^7 colors to 256! And my attempts to JPEG-compress it really uglied it up... >Also, the way the photo >was interlaced, the yellow road was built seemingly brick by brick! I >don't know if you planned it, but it was a nice added effect. The bricks *were* deliberate... >One more thing, maybe you could hyper-text the FAQ questions... That's my *next* project! :) David H. wrote: >I don't think there's any consensus as to whether there's going to be a "big >crunch" in the future of our universe. As I recall, the current data >indicates that the expansion rate of the universe is right at the critical >one where if it's a little less, there will eventually be a big crunch, and >if it's a little more, it will continue to expand indefinitely. (Or if it's >exactly the critical value, the expansion will slow and slow and stop >completely after aleph-null years...) And the noise level of the information >we have is such that it's impossible to tell which is the true case. I won't comment, since this *is* a Digest about Oz not cosmology :) I'll just suggest that you read _The Big Bang Never Happened_ by Eric Lerner. It presents the alrernate view of the universe that I believe holds for both ours and Oz's universe. OZ ON CHARON: Someone asked me for an update on where we stand on this and I will... But tomorrow not tonight 'cause it's two in the morning... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 11, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 07:05:08 -0500 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 12-9/10-96 Gordon: Don't you want to run right out and squeeze a gresshopper?? :) :) Ken S.: Great job with the Wizard of Oz chronology! David: Is the Wicked Witch ornament a "tree topper", or just an ornament?? And, where did you find it? Bear: A belated "Happy Birthday"! Dave: re: Ozzy Digest T-shirt & button, didn't someone (Barb DeJohn, IIRC) volunteer to pursue the project? Happy Chanukah to all my Jewish Digest friends. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 07:22:35 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission I give up on designating the intended recipients of my well wishing of a few days ago. Something in the hardware, software, or wetware between me and the Digest causes that line to vanish. Another mystery of our universe (crunching or otherwise). Would someone please tell us how is Fred Meyer doing now? What s-mail address should be used to send him holiday well wishes? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:43:05 -0500 From: Scott Piehler Subject: Ozzy Digest submission Greetings all! Scott & Tamar Piehler here. New to the Digest. Oz fans for many years, with tastes running to Baum & Eric Shanower. Old & New I guess. I have a question about possible value of our most prized Ozzy Collectible. In 1989, the *1841* company (aka Mt. High Coins & Collectibles) issued a 10 coin set commemorating OZ. It was known as *The Wizard of OZ-A Celebration* and *From Kansas to OZ* and *A Tribute to America's First Fairy Tale*. It was authorized by the Baum Trust. Each coin was one troy ounce of 99.9% (.999 fine) silver, 47mm in diameter. The coins were: Dorothy & Toto Lion Witch of the West Wizard & Emerald City Jack P. Scraps Nick Chopper Scarecrow Glinda & Munchkins There's no place like home The coins are done in the style of the Denslow & Neill illustrations. Each was issued proof quality, in a presentation case, with both the coin and each booklet serially numbered. 5000 of each coin produced. We were just wondering what we might have here. We have all 10 coins. Here's the kicker. It' a matched serial number set. Each coin is #3/5000. That's right, *three*. If anyone wants to take a stab at a value, we'd be appreciative. Not *really* looking to sell, merely trying to educate ourselves. BTW- If anyone in the DIgest lives near the University of New Hampshire, I remember a resident of Durham who always did his lawn up as *Christmas in OZ*. Saw it about 10 years ago. Beautiful! I seem to recall it was somewhere off the street that runs by the main grocery store/Burger King plaza. Scott & Tamar Piehler rosco29@mindspring.com Atlanta, GA "That proves you are unusual," returned the Scarecrow; "and I am convinced the only people worthy of consideration in this world are the unusual ones." L. Frank Baum, The Land of Oz Scott Piehler Atlanta, GA USA http://www.mindspring.com/~rosco29/home.htm ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:00:01 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-10-96 Tyler and others: Perhaps we ought to settle on a name for Nonestica / Baumega / Imagination before we go any further with our discussions. After all, Baum settled on "Oz" before he wrote about it (I assume). Again, I vote for Nonestica (for the continent), but if I'm outvoted, I'll humbly desist. Everyone: I've long suspected the tiger of the forest is the same as the HT. Tyler: Again, I like the parallel dimension Oz theory. Also, nice web page (I've now gotten around to looking at it myself). Jim's was nice too, as were Dave's and "geocities" (I've forgotten whose that was now, and I don't have time to hook into it right now). ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:27:41 -0800 From: wizofoz@okway.okstate.edu (Trisha Gedon) Subject: Ozzy Holiday Tree David: Your tree sounds great. I have a few Ozzy ornaments that take center stage on my tree every year. This year, however, we didn't put up a big tree. With an active 18-month old in the house we decided a small tree on the counter would have to do. Maybe next year. I was curious about the WWW tree topper you were describing. Do you happen to remember where it was purchased? I'm always on the lookout for Ozzy-related tree ornaments. Thanks. Trisha :) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:14:33 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-10-96 Gili: Since this is the first Digest since Chanukah started that I had to download, it's the first one where I could conveniently view your Chanukiyah in a monospaced font. Very nice, and I see that you're "lighting" the candles as the holiday progresses, which wasn't obvious before. Nathan: If one wants to work the consistency problem, Baum didn't say Glinda lived in the north in TIK-TOK; he just said she was "in her magnificent castle, which stands far north of the Emerald City..." Maybe this is just a summer residence or something of the sort, like the kings of Persia had, with palaces in Susa for the winter and Persepolis for the summer. Melody: Nobody saw a gene until fairly recently - the '50s or maybe even the '60s. But then nobody's seen a proton - much less a quark - even now, but we know they exist and deal with them regularly. Genes were known and discussed in biology by the '40s, I know, and I think well before that, probably in the teens or earlier. (I know they were in high school biology texts in the '40s, and not particularly up-to-date texts at that.) Jeremy: It's entirely possible that the Oz -universe- is infinite, just as ours is, but it's fairly clear from a number of references that the general arrangement of space around the Oz world is smaller. For one thing, the moon and some stars are within the atmosphere, and the distance to the moon is short enough that Mr. Tinker can climb a ladder to it during the time it's in the sky - which can't be much more than the 12 hours or so max that it's in our sky on a given day. Anuther Planet seems to be in the atmosphere, too, if Planetty and Thun rode a thunderbolt down to earth (though we could assume that what she called a thunderbolt was really a meteorite, I guess; she wasn't a scientist, and in any case there's a question as to what a "thunderbolt" really is, as distinct from a lightning bolt). Ken S.: Thanks for the chronology of WIZARD. Dave, could you save this as one of the text files you make available? (If not, let us know so that I can save it separately myself.) At the end of OZMA Dorothy is said to spend "several very happy weeks" in Oz; if those weeks added up to more than about seven, that book might cover a longer total span than WIZARD. But certainly WIZARD had significant action going on for a good bit longer than any of the later books. Aaron: I agree with you that the Haff-Martin map seems to show too much distance between the coast and the desert near Evna, though that wouldn't be difficult to correct by providing an inlet of some sort. I think, though, that the reference to Phreex in RINKITINK has to be taken with a grain of salt; if there's really an Isle of Phreex near Pingaree then I don't think it can be the same Isle of Phreex that John Dough visited. (Of course, there's no reason why there couldn't be two Isles of Phreex. There are quite a number of "Long Island"s scattered around the world, for instance.) For one thing, Baum says that the inhabitants of Phreex in RINKITINK had no use for pearls, and I don't think that likely in the case of the freaks of Phreex in JOHN DOUGH. (Though whether they'd have anything to trade to Pingaree for pearls is something else again.) And the available evidence, while not conclusive, seems to put Hiland and Loland on the opposite side of Baumgea from Ev, which would put the JOHN DOUGH Phreex on the opposite side from Pingaree. Tyler: Jinnicky is also called "the Wizard of Ev", in WISHING HORSE if not elsewhere. Ruth: It's possible that every mortal's first trip to Oz is a random event, and it's only upon returning to our world that they have a magical potential that makes it likelier that they'll slip back into Oz on a future occasion. I guess the only human character who arrived in the Oz world because of being in the company of one of the magically-charged ones, and who returned to our world and never returned to Oz, is Zeb. And the only other one who made just one trip to Oz without the direct action of magic and returned to our world to stay was Jam. (As far as I recall; I haven't thought through the whole FF to verify this.) The above applying only to the FF, of course; there are quite a few counterexamples in later books. The BSI are probably the only other group as assiduous at trying to rectify inconsistencies in a fictional canon as we Oz fans are (at least, I've never heard of any other similar group). It seems unlikely to me that Watson would have married in both 1887 and 1888 without there being any mention of mourning for the 1887 wife in THE SIGN OF THE FOUR (and with the laws of the day that quick a divorce would be impossible), but then it seems unlikely that Glinda would have a summer palace in the Gillikin country, too... Yeah, even if Baum had had something like Littlefield's idea in mind when he wrote WIZARD, nobody before Littlefield ever noticed it, and the book was popular for over sixty years before that - so why should forgetting Bryan and McKinley affect its popularity afterwards? Bear: Happy birthday, whenever it was! (Mine's in a week and a day...the big six-oh! ) Dave: I saw your new Digest logo yesterday and concur with others that it's great! If it's translated into a T-shirt and/or button, I definitely want one (each, if applicable)! I agree, this isn't the Cosmology Digest. :-) I'll try to remember to look up that Lerner book (though I think I remember reading an unfavorable review of it somewhere recently). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 14:09:23 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-10-96 Jeremy: You mentioned that people coming to Oz might automatically be able to understand Ozish. The only problem with this theory is that it would be highly unlikely that all of the puns and idioms would tranlate so perfectly from Ozish to English. An even stranger case occurs when the Scarecrow visits the Silver Island. Thompson states that Silver Islandish is different from English and Ozish, but, once again, puns and expressions translate perfectly. Perhaps Silver Islandish is English, but a kind of English that is not understandable to anyone but the Silver Islanders, because of thick accents or something. In the Oz books, magic does occur in the Outside World. Much of the time, however, this magic originates in fairyland. Kenneth: I liked the chronology. Yes, _Wizard_ does take place over a much longer amount of time than most Oz books. Some do not take place over more than a few days. Ruth: I agree with your statement about people having to find symbolic meanings in literature. Personally, I generally prefer to take the Oz stories as history. There is plenty to analyze in these works without dragging in populism or other odd symbols. Aaron: Yes, there are inaccuracies on the maps, especially in terms of scale, but they are still pretty good reference materials for use in the study of Ozology (I wish that Ozology were offered as a major here at college). Tyler: I think that there is evidence to support the idea that Oz is in a parallel dimension, but I do not really like the idea of Oz being in a different Solar System somewhere. If Oz is in another dimension, I do not see why it has to be on some other planet. Maybe the dimension is only large enough to hold Imagination, Tarara, Antozia, and the nearby Nonestic Ocean. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 13:35:41 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-10-96 The windmill in the background may be an Oz tradition, in a peculiar sorta way.... When we first reconstructed _The T0k-Tok Man of Oz_ stageplay, we performed it on a small stage in the castle of Castle Park. We had minimal costuming and staging, but the real problem with asking the audience to willingly suspend their disbelief was the almost overwhelming presence of a huge painting of a windmill. Castle Park, MI is right next to Holland, MI (Tuliptown, USA), so that dam*ed picture dominated the entire show, scene after scene! WIZ Timeline: I'll have to check it against the one I made as a kid. Like Ken, I marked off the events by day. His sure looks right. I wonder why that fascinates some of us. I thnk I did it just to make the adventure seem more real to myself. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:57:40 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls I continue to pursue BOW and have learned there is a No. 24 Oz Collector. Conneticut didn't have enough copies so faxed NY to send me one. Sure glad they have an 800 number. Good grief David - a witch on your tree in the Middle West? You have forgotten you aren't in California. Be prepared to receive a lynch mob. Worried, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:18:53 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-10-96 Gili: Don't worry. Even native speakers of English can't agree on how to spell Chanuka/Hanukkah/etc./whatever. It's partly a problem with not having any sure way to transliterate the "ches" sound. Melody: You have to be careful when working with slang expressions and neologisms. (We recently discovered that the expression "Outta sight!" is actually 100 years old.) According to the OED, "feminist" was first used in print, in a newspaper article, in 1894, and quite a number of times thereafter. The first print citation for "feminism" (in the non-scientific sense) is 1895. The 1909 citation from the Daily Chronicle reads, "Suffragists, suffragettes, and all the other phases in the crescendo of feminism." I don't know when "Seven Blue Mountains" takes place, but the word "gene" was created in 1911, in a technical article in "American Naturalist" by one W. Johannsen. (Actually, if I read this correctly, this was an English-language version of an article he wrote in 1909 in German.) Also per the OED. -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 21:15:40 -0500 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Latest Ozian Check out the latest citizen of Oz at http://home.unicom.net/~albright I've two weeks of Digests to catch up on! I look forward to getting back in the loop. And posters who also are personal Oz friends, I'm unable to access by own address book for several more days. Please spread the work among my non-digest Ozzy on-line friends who you know I'd want to have advised of the Big Event (Chris Sterling, Patty Tobias, Bill Stillman, Ed Brody, Bill Beem, etc.) It will be at least next week before we are back in Kansas City. Jane Albright ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:03:24 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Tiger, Tiger, Burning Bright: I prefer to believe that the tiger encountered in _Wizard_ was indeed the famous Hungry One. Therefore, they did meet, but forgot about it until later in _Ozma_. Maps: IMHO, a theory saying that weather can effect the two different Universes magically is much easier than trying to cram three continents (plus a host of other things) onto our globe. Wormholes: I think one thing that most of us can agree on is that some people, for whatver reason, can affect an entrance into the Ozzy Universe. Whether it is by virtue of simply crossing over, attracting an invisible gateway, creating a gateway or whatever, some people are special. If _Queen Ann_ and _Glass Cat_ go into reprints, just remember what Chris Dulabone says. Oz books make great Christmas and birthday presents! It is too late for Christmas this year, but we can plan ahead. This applies to BEOO, BOW and all other Oz books. Yes, even March Laumer, although I would not recommend his stuff for children. Universalism: The Oz Universe may or not be finite. I suggested that it was, since there is some indirect evidence, such as stars and other things appearing in the atmosphere and Planetty's quick journey to the Ozzy planet. Also, a small Oz Universe makes it easier to picture it as being linked very closely and intimately with Earth, as it certainly seems to be. Ken: Thanks for the log of _Wizard_! It is very well done and really puts the story in perspective. Also, it gives Uncle Henry plenty of time to build the new house seen at the end of the book. Aaron: Your comment about Phreex and Pingaree is well taken, but the Evna part could simply be an error in scale. Perhaps there is a bay on that part of the coast and the Wheelers area is much farther to the east, closer to Evna. Dave: I had almost forgotten about Charon. I can't wait until "today" to find out the progress! :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:33:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Bizarre Spellings in Oz Empire 1) Gili, Barry and I spell HanukkAh H-a-n-u-k-k-A-h. We're still out here, listening, watching. As far as Oz goes, right now we're discussing improving _The Woozy of Oz_ before we submit it to a publisher again, mostly things like attempting to increase appeal for people who are not big Oz fans and at the same time not ruin the existing plot but on the contrary tighten it. And I can imagine the Cheshire Cat calling us mad for thinking of attempting this. Somehow I feel drawn to sending it to the people who published _Wicked_, Harper Collins, on the hypothesis that if they published something that bad, they should want to pubish _Woozy_, which is much better. Kabumpo: How dare you have such delusions of grandeur! Don't you realize that I'm bigger than you'll ever be? Davy Jones: I'm bigger than you are. Bob the Brachiosaurus: I'm bigger than either of you, and I can simultaneously sing, dance, rub my tummy, and pat my head! Snarfle the Hideous Mutant Space Goat: Well, I'm bigger than any of you could ever grow, and--hey? What's with that eraser? Pardon me, but I seem to be suffering from delusions of absurdity. Please stand by. 2) Jeremy, I don't see how Oz could be more real than Earth; at best it could be an equally valid reality. The only thing which I could see as being more real than we are is God, as we can be concieved as being a fiction of God's creation. (How's that for a spooky view of reality?) Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Dec, 1996 11:15:24 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Dick writes: >Dave: re: Ozzy Digest T-shirt & button, didn't someone (Barb DeJohn, IIRC) >volunteer to pursue the project? I think she did -- I hope she'll let us know if she still plans to do so. From: Jeremy Steadman >Perhaps we ought to settle on a name for Nonestica / Baumega / >Imagination before we go any further with our discussions. I don't see why; so long as everyone uses the name they prefer and everyone else knows what they mean... David H. wrote: >Thanks for the chronology of WIZARD. Dave, could you save this as one of the >text files you make available? I certainly will. Another use I see this chonology might have is to help us come to some kind estimation of Oz's size, if we take the days the was on the Yellow Brick Road and calculate the distance from E. City to WDHF ("Where Dorothy's House Fell") and then extrapolate (assuming of course that the canonical map is to scale). BTW, has anyone seen the Oz/Baumgea map in _The Dictionary of Imaginary Places_? They make Oz longer in the North-South direction than East-West! >I saw your new Digest logo yesterday and concur with others that it's great! >If it's translated into a T-shirt and/or button, I definitely want one (each, >if applicable)! Thanks! I hope Barb will be able to do this, as she seems to be knowledgeble on making T-shirts and buttons... >I agree, this isn't the Cosmology Digest. :-) I'll try to remember to look up >that Lerner book (though I think I remember reading an unfavorable review of >it somewhere recently). No doubt it got a bad review because the reviewer is a staunch supporter of the Big Bang, which the book of course torpedoes. Such books are problematic to review when they present a dissenting opinion on a scientific theory that has wide acceptance. The early books on "Hot-Blooded Dinosaurs" were similarly panned by reviewers because in those days everybody "knew" that dinosaurs were cold-blooded. And of course we all know what kind of rough book review Galileo initially got from the Inquisition... And now what you've all waited for...The OZ ON CHARON UPDATE: It's looking now like we're not going to hear from anyone else I wrote to, so maybe the time is near for me to submit our proposal to the International Astronomical Union. At least we have responses from Ray Bradbury, Patrick Moore, Astronomer Jay M. Pasachoff, and Charon's discoverer James Christy to back us up. I won't though hide it that the lack of response from Carl Sagan, Frank "Project Ozma" Drake, Martin Gardner (whose address I must admit I was never able to definitely ascertain), or Harlan Ellison is a great disappointment to me. They would have made a formidable alliance for us had they given us their support. But we do the best we can... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 12, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 10:45:05 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Digest To: DAVEH47@delphi.com, DAVEH47@delphi.com Gordon: Grasshoppers sometimes produce a black substance which some people call "spitting molasses." Molasses was much more popular in the early part of the century than it is now, as cam be seen in the earlier part of SCARECROW where the Bumpy Man serves Trot and Capt'n Bill molasses and drinks it hot while they wait for it to cool and then stretch it. I do not know if this form of candy making (a taffy pull) is done much today. I'm no continuity expert. I think the narrator sometimes forgets. Even Jove nods. As Anthony notes there is a new edition of the four major silent OZ films. They all have musical soundtracks, not based on the original scores, and "narration." The latter consists of a feminine voice reading some to the title cards (not the ones that contain the names of the performers). THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ has been tinted, a nice effect, it does not contain the footage (missing in all other released tapes of the film) of the Patchwork Girl coming to life and Unc Nunkie, Margolotte, and Dax being pterified. It does contain Fred Woodward's marvelous Woozy, perhaps the most charming creature in all the early Oz films. THE MAGIC CLOAK is the same abridged version previously available, if the complete film exists it has never been made available. HIS MAJESTY THE SCARECROW contains the first reel that was missing in some earlier releases which begin when Dorothy is already a prisoner of the Witch. The opening titles and one inter-title are clearly in a different format than the majority of the title cards. I strongly believe that these title cards are the work of the late Dick Martin, who would have created them to replace the missing first reel. Interestingly they have never been acknowledged. I have not yet watched the Chadwick WIZARD OF OZ in this version, but it is a very wretched movie to start with, despite the fact that Col. Frank [Joslyn] Baum worked on the script. At $35 this collection is a must for a serious silent Oz collector. Dave: I checked your Ozzy Digest web page and it looks great--nice design. I didn't re-read the FAQ Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:54:59 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: (no subject) To: DAVEH47@delphi.com Feminism and feminists: Everyone should have a copy of the Oxford English Dictionary close at hand (I think you can get one for only about $1200, but it is available on CD-ROM for only $399). By checking it I found that the word feminism in its current sense can be cited back to 1895 and feminist goes back to 1894. So it could accuratey be used in a book set any time after the mid 1890s. So there! BTW: I also checked "molasses" but could not find a reference to grasshoppers. Unfortunated THE HISTORICAL DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN SLANG, volume 1 only has letters A-G. I will have to wait the publication of volume 2 to check it. Oz maps: IWOC's maps, which are still available for $3.00, were designed by the late Jim Haff and drawn by the late Dick Martin. They were the product of the most scrupulous scholarship and were revised twice. Although they do not include the most recent writings not the apocryphal works (except LAUGHING DRAGON), they are quite accurate. The Del Rey maps are based on them. They come with an explanitory pamphlet. Any concerned with Ozian geography should purchase them. Ipse dixit! Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:25:59 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-11-96 Dick: The Wicked Witch ornament is one of a series that I found in a gift shop in California six or eight years ago. It's really designed to be hung, but because it's cloth over a wire frame, it was possible to put the top of the tree up the back of her skirt so she appears to be flying there. (And if it were a voodoo doll, it would be no more than the wicked lady deserves... ) I have a winged monkey in the same series, but I need to replace the cord he should hang from; his clothes don't lend themselves to mounting from below. I only got those two, because the rest were too movie-based and I'm mostly a book purist. Jeremy: I figure that since we owe our whole ability to discuss the matter as we do to Dave, I'll defer to him and call the continent Baumgea, with Nonestica as an alternate for people who think Baumgea is hard to pronounce. But as long as we all know what we mean, it doesn't really matter that much. Trisha: See my comment to Dick about the WWW ornament. Nathan: People who come to Oz also find all the signs written in English - I think this is an even better proof than the constancy of puns and rhymes for the fact that Ozzish -is- English. There aren't many examples of magic working in the outside world but not originating in fairyland, but there are a few. The magic spell that brought Benny to life; the Mudge rhyme; the merry-go-round ring - those about the only examples I can think of, and it could be argued that all of those at least could have originated in fairyland. (Well, the ring did originate in fairyland, but its power there didn't include transporting people to Oz. And the Mudge rhyme worked in fairyland, but we don't know where it originated.) I don't like the idea of Oz on another planet in another solar system, either. It needs to be somewhere where the normal laws of physics don't work quite the same, for one thing. Another dimension works much the best, I think. Bear: I carefully turned the witch so she's facing away from the window; I don't think anyone outside can tell that she's a witch. And nobody who'd come into our house would be upset by it. Besides, I'm finding that Midwesterners - at least, in the Chicago suburbs - are much more tolerant on the whole than Orange Countians. (This isn't Mississippi, after all!) Dave: Well, yeah, Bakker and Galileo challenged the scientific orthodoxy of their day, got bad initial reviews, and then the consensus later came around to agreeing with them. But then again, Velikovsky, Reich, Horbiger, Hubbard, and quite a lot of other people challenged the scientific orthodoxy of their day, got bad initial reviews, and continue to get bad reviews because they were wrong. It's a lot less common for a person to challenge the scientific orthodoxy of his day and turn out to be right than for him to turn out to be wrong; it happens, but it doesn't happen often. Not having read Lerner's book, I have no opinion on it, but even if I read it I doubt if I'm qualified to judge - even though I have a degree in physics. I'm sure that if he makes a good case people will take up his ideas and test them, just as they did with Galileo and Bakker. New Topic: I hear a lot of people toss around the idea that too often Ozma comes in at the end of an Oz book and solves everything using the Magic Belt; in fact, that's the conclusion of Tyler's "Generic Oz Story". Problem is, it hardly ever happens. In the FF, it happens once, in OJO. Maybe twice if you count EMERALD CITY, but in that case, although Ozma saves the day using the Magic Belt, it wasn't her idea how to use it. And it doesn't happen at all in any of the 40 non-FF books I own, though admittedly that's only a small fraction of the non-FF books that exist. Still, I wonder where this common idea comes from? It's true that she very often uses the belt to tie up some loose ends - sending American kids home if they want to go, sending a villain off to exile or transforming him into something innocuous, that sort of thing - but that only happens after the main problem has been resolved favorably without her intervention. Anybody have anything to say about this? David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 05:25:34 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 12-10-96 *please post* Re: Chronologies-- I realized after seeing the post in the Digest that I should have put a spoiler warning in my post on 12-10. I hope I didn't spoil the plot of WIZARD for anyone .... Anyway, here's the chronology for LAND. Note the moon; it's one of the few examples in the canon where the phases of the moon are mentioned. Does anyone know of other examples? ********WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR "MARVELOUS LAND"******** Day 1 - Tip begins work on Jack Pumpkinhead Day 2 - Tip completes Jack - Mombi returns, brings Jack to life - in evening, Tip brings Jack to life & runs away; walks all night ("moon and stars shone brightly"; last quarter?) Day 3 - Tip enchants Sawhorse - party is separated Jack & Sawhorse arrive in the Emerald City, where they meet the Scarecrow Tip meets Gen. Jinjur, enters EC with Army of Revolt Scarecrow, Tip, Jack & Sawhorse escape from palace, head to Tin Woodman's Castle - night along road Day 4 - Tip's party arrives at the Tin Woodman's Castle Day 5 - The Tin Woodman joins Tip's party - they leave for the EC - Mombi interferes with their progress - they meet the Wogglebug - they reach the EC and expell Jinjur from the palace - they build the Gump and escape, flying all night ("a cloudy sky, through which the rays of the moon could not penetrate") Day 6 - The Gump smashes at the Jackdaws' nest - they fight the Jackdaws & the Gump is repaired - night in nest Day 7 - The party leaves in the morning - the Scarecrow appeals to Glinda - Glinda tells the stories of Ozma and the Wizard - night in palace Day 8 - Glinda summons council and decides to march against the EC Day 9 - Glinda's army marches against the EC - arrives after nightfall ("by the dim light of the new moon") Day 10 - Glinda's army besieges the EC - Glinda demands the surrender of Mombi - Jinjur invites her to search the city - Tin Woodman picks a rose Day 11 - Glinda discovers Mombi and defeats her in a sorcerer's battle - disenchantment of Ozma Day 12 - Glinda's army takes the EC - capture of Jinjur ********************** END SPOILER********************************** ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 19:02:09 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-11-96 Nathan: Yes, I agree with you about the possibility that Oz's dimension could be only large enough to hold Oz and the surrounding countries. In fact, I can work that perfectly into my theory that that dimension is larger than ours rather than smaller--different dimensions might have different scales, so that a huge dimension might have only enough room for Narnia, for example (sorry C.S.). Dave, Deciding on one name for a huge continent would sure make things easier conversation-wise, that's all I meant. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 21:08:04 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-11-96 Jeremy: Actually, I am pretty sure that Baum began writing about Oz before he decided on a name. Also, "the Land of Oz" is used to refer to a few different things. In _Lucky Bucky_, for instance, Davy Jones uses "Oz" to refer to places out as far as the Nonestic. David: I doubt that Planetty's thunderbolt was just an ordinary lighning bolt. It was probably a meteor, or something of the sort. Actually, the people of _John Dough_'s Isle of Phreex probably would have no use for pearls. Remember the diamond maker telling John that nothing on the island has any value? Tyler: If Oz is in another "Universe," as you say, I would support the idea of it being a small one. Dave: Yes, I have seen the Oz map in the _Dictionary of Imaginary Places_. Note that this map refers to the Kalidahs as "Kalidaks," and Howzatagin as "Howrahagin." It looks like the cartographer who drew this map merely copied the Oz Club's map, but distorted it in strange ways. Oz on Charon? What in sixes are you talking about? Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 22:22:15 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Jeremy - A word of advice. There isn't going to be any vote on Baumgea vs Nonestica on the Digest, IMHO. This is one of those "summer" issues. Summer in favor of one name and summer in favor of the other. Take your pick and go with it. We will all be able to translate. David - Happy Birthday to you in advance! Mine didn't hurt too badly. Sigh. Isn't this an awful time of year for a birthday? I always wished I was born in July. Thanks to the other Digesters for their good wishes public and private. Aaron - You have a great idea - HarperCollins will probably think it's someone who is stoned in Oz and snap it right up. :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 22:57:12 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-10-96 Dave Hulan: >Mendel published his results in 1865, but in an obscure journal where they were ignored until well into the 20th century. However, Zim might have been one of the few who read his paper when it appeared...< Come to think of it, Zim could have a magic "scientific book" or paper tree--that grew EVERY science book written.... Zim would still have to separate the true facts from the idle speculations & "snake oil".... :-) The Encyclopedia Britannica says that Mendell theorized that plants and animals inherit two hereditary units--one from the mother and one from the father. But he did not know the nature of these units. In 1902, a scientist first mentioned chromosomes as being Mendell's "hereditary unit" and stated they were in a cell's nucleus. Later, the subunits of the chromosomes were named 'genes.' Bear: If you can't find somebody to trade Xeroxes with, maybe I can Xerox my Ozianas for you. (Is that okay, Robin?) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 23:37:27 -0500 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Earl: Fred Meyer's snail mail address is Fred Meyer c/o Nancy Petrasko 1438 Ullman Appleton, WI 54911 I hear he continues to improve, but it is slow going. The Piehlers: Bill Stillman probably has a good idea of the value of your coins. He is "Mr. Oz Collectable", as well as being Bugle editor. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 00:07:10 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Jeremy: Given my record of being pro-consistency and continuity (these two concepts are NOT quite the same thing, BTW), I would love it if we could all adopt a standard terminology for various Ozzy things, if only for ease of communication. After all, I did work with IEEE 802.14, IETF and ISO 9000. That is not likely to happen, but it may not be a bad thing. For example, most people who use the term "Baumgea" almost always mean the Ozzy continent. Nonestica can mean either the continent or the Ozzy planet. Most of the time, there is no need for a fine distinction between the two, and when there is, the context of the discussion is usually sufficient to make the meaning clear. It would be nice if a consensus emerged, though. Currently, I favor "Baumgea" for the Ozzy continent and "Nonestica" as the name of the planet. This can change any day, since I have not come to a firm decision. Also, thanks for the comments on my web page. David and Nathan: The idea that Glinda has a summer home in the north has been bandied about before as a possible solution to the reference in _Tik-Tok_. While it is just as likely that Baum made a mistake, this summer palace could give rise to a whole host of new Oz books. Nathan: If I understand you correctly, you seem to be agreeing that Oz may be in a parallel dimension, but still on Earth. IMHO, this does not seem possible unless you make two assumptions: 1) That The Ozzy Universe is much smaller than our own, and 2) that the Ozzy planet is intimately linked with Earth, with perhaps magic and weather from one affecting the other, people being drawn from one world to the other, etc. This would have the effect of making Oz a sort of paralell Earth, accessible only from our world. I myself make these two assumptions, so I believe we are in agreement. Eleanor: IIRC, _Seven Blue Mountains_ volume I covers an impressive span of history, from just after Ozma's ascension to the throne (early 20th) to the 1980's. Therefore, Zim could easily have read Mendel's work (or even duplicated it himself) and then used our terminology soon thereafter. Dave: Good luck with the application. Ozma has confidence in you... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 00:10:17 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Gili Bar-Hillel: Enjoyed your computer-art menorahs! David Hulan: Happy birthday (shortly)! Eleanor Kennedy: OED is such a wonderful source of info! Kenneth Shepherd: Thanks for the "Wizard" chronology. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu 12 Dec 1996 13:53:59 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "Baumgea" for the continent and "Nonestica" (I can say that "Nonest-" means "Not is" in our universe) for the planet is something I could live with... Someone wrote me privately and said that next Winkie Convention will be somewhere called "Pacific Grove" -- Is this true? Has it changed location? Where IS Pacific Grove? Is it any nearer L.A.? For newcomers to the Digest, "Oz on Charon" is a movement by members of the Oz community to create a "monument" to Oz on a distant world. When astronomer James Christy discovered Pluto's moon Charon, he wanted to name it "Oz", but he was overruled by the International Astronomical Society's name restriction for planets and moons to mythological figures. No such restriction exists for naming *geological features* on moons however, and in fact each moon in the Outer Solar System has a "theme" for naming its surface features, e.g. Saturn's Enceladus has the Arabian Nights for its theme, and thus has craters, mountains, etc. named after Aladdin, Ali Baba, etc. So I have been writing people who are astronomers or Oz fans or both to rally their support to petition NASA to, in their upcoming Pluto mission, make Oz the theme for naming features on Charon. The only stumbling block to the whole idea though (as Patrick Moore informed me in his letter) is that all themes for other moons are based on works of literature that go back centuries (the honoring of _Le Mort D'Arthur_ on Saturn's Mimas is the most recent IIRC), and the Astronomical Union may be unwilling to adopt for a moon names from a literary work written in the twentieth century. Stay tuned for further updates... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 13, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:51:29 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-12-96 Hi Dave, As it has for many years, the Winkie Conference will take place at Asilomar Conference Center in Pacific Grove, California. Pacific Grove is nestled between Pebble Beach and Monterey on the northwest corner of the Monterey Peninsula. The Conference Center is part of the Asilomar State Beach complex. The Center was founded by the YWCA about 1914. Its original buildings were designed by the prominent architect, Julia Morgan, who designed many buildings in Northern California and elsewhere (including the palatial residence of Phoebe Apperson Hearst in Pleasanton and the big and guest houses at San Simeon for William Randolph Hearst. Morgan was active in the arts and crafts architectural movement and her buildings were frequently made of wood, cedar shake, and stone (as at Asilomar). The Center's grounds comprise 105 wooded acres (invaded frequently by a herd of deer that has free access to most of Pacific Grove and Pebble Beach. The summers are surprisingly cool (some would say downright cold, for the temperatures are frequently as low as the 50s) because of the summer fog that frequently blankets the peninsula. In July 1997, the housing reserved for the Winkie Conference will be in the newest part of the grounds, the center of most housing in recent years. Very likely we will continue to use the Firelight Forum as our main meeting space, complemented by the adjacent building called Kiln (where the exhibition and dealers tables will be following the Winkie Auction). I'll share more information with the Ozzy Digest later on. Robin Olderman and Langley Brookes Brandt are the co-chairs of the 1997 meeting. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:04 -0600 (CST) From: gbirrell@post.cis.smu.edu (Gordon Birrell) Subject: Ozzy Digest Many thanks to all you, ahem, rural types who straightened me out about grasshopper molasses. David: It's true that the Magic Belt isn't used as much as we all have been assuming, but it certainly is central to the plot of _Dorothy and the Wizard_, and Ozma tells Dorothy at the end of _Road_ that she was on the verge of reaching for the Magic Belt not once but twice. But oddly enough when the Scarecrow returns from Jinxland in _Scarecrow_ , Ozma , Dorothy, and Betsy talk about watching his exciting adventures and near incineration in the Magic Picture as if it were the latest installment of Murder She Wrote, with nary a mention of being ready to spring to his assistance with the Belt. Also I find it remarkable that Dorothy wears the Belt throughout _Glinda_ but never thinks to use it to help herself and Ozma escape from the submerged island. Chapter after chapter I kept mentally saying, "C'mon Dorothy! Get a grip! Remember that heavy jewel-encrusted thing you have around your WAIST!" Of course the use of the belt would have spoiled the ingenious and really very satisfying conclusion to the book. This is a pretty clear example, I think, that Baum intentionally avoided using the Belt because of its potential for dumbing down the plot line. Gordon "City-Boy" Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 19:30:10 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-12-96 David: In _Ozoplaning_, it is the Belt that saves the day, although getting to it is a challenge. It is true, however, that Ozma doesn't usually use the Belt until the major problem has already been resolved. She usually does use it to tie up loose ends, however. In _Giant Horse_, and possibly some other volumes, the Wizard of Oz solves the central problem. Tyler: It would seem that we are in agreement. This dimension and Universe stuff is all so confusing. Even Xornom doesn't always understand it (BTW, Xornom is an interdimensional traveller in my unifinished story, _The Giant Rabbit of Oz_). I have been wondering about how familiar most people of Nonestica (all of Baum's fairyland) are with the Great Outside World. Here are a few references that might seem interesting: In _Ojo_, the Dictator of Dicksy Land reads a book by Dickens. I suppose that it is safe to assume that the book was written by the Outside World's Charles Dickens. In _Speedy_, Waddy states that he sometimes flies Umbrella Island out into the "realms of Reality." Indeed, the island is flying above the United States when Speedy boards it. In _Tik-Tok_, it is mentioned that the Nome King kidnapped Shaggy's brother, who was a gold miner in Colorado. In _Runaway_, Fanny sends weather to the Andes, the South Pacific, and Ulan Bator (Where IS Ulan Bator, anyway?). She also mentions Halifax (Is this is New Jersey?). In _John Dough_, a few characters on the Isle of Phreex, which is shown on the Haff-Martin map as being in the Nonestic Ocean, mention people and places in the Outside World. The Kinglet speaks of Samson, Nebbie mentions King Arthur and Richard Coeur de Leon, and Tietjamus Toips mentions Wagner. If anyone has anything to add to this list, please do so. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 21:20:00 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-12-96 Winkie Convention: Pacific Grove is where we've held the convention for many years now. It's a small town wedged into the Monterey Peninsula along with Carmel. The name of the facility we use is Asilomar. The conference dates will be July 11-13, 1997. I hope to see quite a few of you there. BTW, it's a wonderful place to find Ozzy items...several very good dealers of books and ephemera, and the auction can be marvelous. Language in Oz: I'm pretty sure that there's a line somewhere in the FF that actually states that Ozzish = English. I can't think of where the line is, though. Does the Shaggy Man say it? Steve, do you know? Eric? Someone? T'averen: Yes, that makes sense to me, even though Jordan certainly wasn't thinking of Oz. And since Oz is an American fairyland, it makes sense that only Americans are drawn to it. I once wrote a story trying to explain that when Oz was in trouble, an American was often needed but, frankly, the story was quite weak and I'd be mortally embarrassed if anyone ever saw it. My server will be down for repairs from Friday through Sunday. I'm gonna miss the DIGEST. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:18:31 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Maps: Let me echo Steve Teller. The Oz maps published by the Club are beautiful and represent an extremely detailed and scholarly piece of research. As I have said before, there may be some tiny errors, but of course the FF itself was not written by cartographers, and the basic shape of things is, in my not-so-humble-opinion, quite well defined. To paraphrase R. Giskard Reventlov, we need go no further. David: I was one of the original ones who brought up the Ozma-fixes-everything complaint. Upon further review, what I was perhaps trying to say is that magic itself is used quite often as a quick-fix to most things. It may not be Ozma herself who arrives in a cloud of pink smoke to save the day (which she did in _Yellow Knight_), but the effect is the same. It happened in _Dot&Wiz_, _Patchwork Girl_, _Tik-Tok_ (sort of), _Rinkitink_ (although there are reasons for this), _Kabumpo_, _Grampa_ and a few others. Ozma and her belt are merely the symbol of this, if not always the mechanism. Ken Shepherd: Again you have come through with a log of _Land_! Thank you so much for your research. Jeremy: So, larger is now smaller, eh? Maybe Wonderland is also somewhere in this dimension. Bear and David: Happy late/early birthdays to both of you. July may be a fun B-day, but there's a lot to be said for being born in January :-) My younger brother was born in July, and our mother always used this as an excuse to gyp him out getting stuff. Her excuse was "Well, you just had christmas/birthday two months ago" and "Well, christmas/birthday is coming up in two months". One of the two had always either just occured or was just around the corner. At the other extreme, of course, (although my mother never used this on me), is the old "Well, this is a, uh, (ahem) combined B-Day and christmas present". :-( Dave: Pacific Grove, CA, is on the south shore of Monterrey Bay, near Carmel and Monterrey. It is the same place where the Winkie Con is held every year. Asilomar is the name of the resort where the people stay, but Pacific Grove is the city that contains the hotel. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 21:59:34 -0800 From: Kevin Holmes Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-12-96 Dave: If the Society has restricted planets and moons to be named after mythological figures, how come Uranus's moons are named after Shakespearean characters (Titania, Oberon, Miranda)? They should have been named after Oz characters! Kevin Holmes ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 06:58:52 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Dave says that, This should present no problem however since _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ was written in the nineteen century (1899). ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 08:30:13 -0500 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: For the Digest Last night on CNN there was a report on the MGM Munchkins, and brief clips of an interview with Jerry Maren, Margaret Pellegrini, and Ruth Duccini (I hope I got that last name right). They mentioned Cox's new book and showed the three little people signing copies of the book. I only caught the last couple minutes, so I didn't tape it, and there wasn't anything groundbreaking, but it was a nice thing to happen upon. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:07:23 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-12-96 Steve: I remember being told by my parents that when they were children in the early part of this century, blackstrap molasses mixed with sulfur was given to them as a "spring tonic" every year. (Sorghum molasses is still quite popular in the South; it's used for a lot of the same purposes maple syrup is in the Northeast, for instance. Puddled with butter and spread on biscuits, it's still one of my favorite desserts, though I don't eat it often.) The cheapest way to get the OED is to join the Book-of-the-Month Club, get it as a membership premium, take your four selections (or whatever it is - something like that), and then get out. (At least, that's the cheapest way unless you can find it cheap at a used book store.) This is the compact edition, which needs a magnifying glass (furnished) to read easily, but who wants to give up the shelf space for the full-sized edition? It's not as if it's something you sit down with and read for hours; it's a look-up tool. Bear: Yeah, this is a rotten time to have a birthday, at least when you're a kid. (At our age it doesn't matter much.) I always envied my brother his July birthday. Tyler: I don't see how having the Oz world in a parallel dimension but intimately linked with Earth would necessarily imply that the Oz Universe is much smaller than ours. It's clear that there are habitable heavenly bodies much closer to the Oz world than is the case - or would even be physically possible - in our universe, but that doesn't mean that there aren't also stars and planets five billion light years from it as well. On the other hand, I have no objection to thinking that the Oz universe is smaller, either. It's just that I don't see it as a necessary implication of what we know of it. Do you have an argument for that conclusion? Dave: As others will no doubt tell you, Pacific Grove is the name of the city in which Asilomar is located - it's a suburb of Monterey. It's where the Winkie Conference has been held for the last ten or twelve years at least. Alas, no closer to LA. (Alas for your sake; for Eric, say, it's good news.) The stories in the Arabian Nights originated earlier than "Le Mort d'Arthur", but they first came to the attention of the Western world only in the early 18th century when Galland did his French translation of a collection of them. I don't know about the literary sources of other planetary/satellite features, but of the two you mention I think the Arabian Nights has to be considered more recent than "Le Mort d'Arthur". (If the origins of the original stories count, then the Arthurian stories "Le Mort d'Arthur" is based on were older than the original Arabian Nights, or at least of comparable vintage.) On the other hand, Oz is a lot more recent than even Galland. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 09:29:27 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Yikes! It's Friday the 13th! So everybody remember today not to let a glass cat cross your path or step on any cracks in the Yellow Brick Road! :) WINKIE CONVENTION: Okay, thanks everyone for straightening me out -- The Winkie Convention IS held in Pacific Grove! It's so near to Monterey (one of my favorite places on the globe) that I forget that it is not IN Monterey but in a little town of its own... MAGICAL QUICK FIXES: I too have frequently complained of magic being too much of a panacea in the Oz books...I suppose that sounds a little absurd since they are fantasies after all...But as I think others have tried to point out, magic itself as a plot device isn't really the problem, but what *is* is books in which magic is the ONLY plot device. As Tyler has pointed out in the past, by the end of the FF there are so many magical tools at the Ozites disposal that any situation can be solved in two seconds and the sense of adventure is lost. FWIW, in my own writing I devise various work-arounds. For instance in _Locasta_ the villians neutralize all the magic in Oz so that nothing--not the Magic Belt, not the things in Wizard's bag, not Glinda's incantations-- NOTHING works, and only the Good Witch of the North's own brains and ingenuity save Oz. And in "Fairy Princess", I am adopting an idea that has been suggested before--that the Magic Belt has the limitation that after being used a lot it will "run down" like a battery and then is useless until it is "recharged"-- a process that I reveal in the book whose elaborateness, complexity, and otherwise pain in the such-and-such for Glinda to execute makes Ozma very frugal in her use of the Belt and makes her rely more on her own cunning. THE NAMING OF PLANETS IS A DIFFICULT MATTER...: From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) >Dave says that, moon names from a literary work written in the twentieth century.> >This should present no problem however since _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ >was written in the nineteen century (1899). I didn't mean to suggest that they had a definite dividing line at the year 1901...I'm afraid they might object to naming features after works from the 20th century...or the 19th...or the 18th...or 17th... Besides, I think we're agreed that we're going to feel shackled if were limited to the first book and can't have "Ozma Mons" or "Valles Reera" or "Crater Ojo" :) Kevin Holmes wrote: >If the Society has restricted planets and moons to be named after >mythological figures, how come Uranus's moons are named after >Shakespearean characters (Titania, Oberon, Miranda)? They should have >been named after Oz characters! I think that Uranus' "big five" moons were named before this "law" was adopted. Then when Voyager disovered Uranus' minor moons, they decided that they could make an exception with Uranus and name these little moons after Shakesperian folks as well ( a moon named "Puck"-- I like that! :) ), but for the other planets and moons the commandment is still "Thou shalt not name a world for a non-mythological figure". It's a pretty stupid rule in my not-so-humble-opinion, especially since they're going to RUN OUT of mythological names sooner or later! And with the number of extra-solar planets they're discovering these days, I have I feeling it's going to be sooner... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 14, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:13:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Old Language of Oz 1) Robin, I believe it is mentioned in _The Royal Book of Oz_ that Modern Ozzish is Modern English (by the narrator, not a character), although it must be noted that Modern Ozzish has several words in it that are certainly loanwords (oz, jemkiph, whum, nuffet, zosozo). It is for this reason that I have conjectured that there is an Old Ozzish language which is not English and was spoken until sometime during the reign of Pastoria.= =20 The cause of the shift I blame on a spell cast by Barry the Asmard (then, Warlock) of Ix to understand the speech of an accidental visitor from our world which went awry and changed a large number of Nonesticans into English speakers. As such, this would be one of his less-destructive mistakes. Popping out of this tangent, I have worked out some of the basic vocabulary and grammar of Old Ozzish, working mostly from names, and samples of this language may show up in various places in _Lurline's Machine_. 2) Dave, they could always turn to other religions for names. For example, they could use Hindu deities, which since Hinduism has millions of gods would last a long time. On the other hand, using names of gods from a religion that is currently being practiced may be offensive to its adherents; I'm sure I wouldn't want the astronomers naming a planet Jehovah. Come to think of it, they could always ransack science-fiction...=20 Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:40:56 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-13-96 I just barely sent off my comments on the 12/12 Digest when the 12/13 one popped up (fortunately including those comments). So here I go again... Gordon: It's true that the Magic Belt is central to the plot of DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD, but its main use happens little more than halfway through the book, and as I've said a number of times, its use in that context means that most of the book preceding that use was pointless. Which is the main reason why I regard it as one of Baum's two worst Oz books. Up through the picking of the new ruler of the Mangaboos it works OK; at that point, or at least before anything else of significance happens, Dot should make her sign, Ozma brings her and the rest to Oz, the Wizard explains himself and Ozma agrees to let him stay, and then she sends the rest of the crew back home. Everything else in the book is padding, but it's already one of the shortest in the FF; take out the padding and it's not much longer than one of the "Little Wizard" stories. It always seemed odd to me, too, that after Dorothy shows herself perfectly capable of using the Magic Belt in OZMA, she's forgotten how in LOST PRINCESS, and that then when she's figured out how to use it again in LP, she's forgotten again in GLINDA. Of course, it could be that the Magic Belt doesn't have the power to overcome Coo-ee-oh's magic, any more than Ozma's wand does, and that Ozma knows this and tells Dorothy so offstage. Otherwise, even if Dorothy didn't remember, presumably Ozma would have borrowed the belt and used it herself. Nathan: Ozma's use of the Magic Belt in OZOPLANING almost falls into the "tying up loose ends" category, but I suppose that since the Wizard says that nothing but the MB will work to send the Stratovanians home, then it should count as a case of solving the major problem. Still, as soon as the Wizard reaches Glinda the probability that the problem will be solved becomes very high. Ulan Bator is the capital of Mongolia. There are several Halifaxes; the best known is probably the one that's the capital of Nova Scotia. The original one is an industrial city in Yorkshire, about halfway between York and Manchester. Robin: There may be other references, but one I remember for sure is in PIRATES, when the Konk and Quink of Shell City greet Peter and company in a strange language, and Peter remembers that Ozish is the same as English and asks them if they speak Ozish. (I think there -are- other references, including at least one in Baum, but that's the only specific one that comes to mind.) >T'averen: Yes, that makes sense to me, even though Jordan certainly >wasn't thinking of Oz. And since Oz is an American fairyland, it makes >sense that only Americans are drawn to it. I once wrote a story trying >to explain that when Oz was in trouble, an American was often needed but, >frankly, the story was quite weak and I'd be mortally embarrassed if >anyone ever saw it. Could you - when you get back on-line - let us know the context of that paragraph? It's either a comment on a private message to you that didn't get on the Digest, or to something someone wrote long enough ago that I've forgotten the original message. It looks like an interesting idea, anyhow. Tyler: I think Ozma's intervention in YELLOW KNIGHT is more "tying up loose ends"; once the Corumbians and Corabians were disenchanted, I think they could have bested the Samandran Camel Corps even without Ozma's help, although she certainly simplified matters. (And maintained the Ozzy tradition of not having any actual hand-to-hand fighting happen between humans.)(A tradition I tried to maintain in GLASS CAT.) My dislike of a December birthday was more based on the fact that I often wanted things like fishing gear, or golf clubs, or other outdoor-activity equipment, but never got them because the weather was such that I'd be unable to use them for several months. I got a lot more clothes (yuck!) for my birthday than my brother ever did. (Of course, I got a lot more Oz and other books than he did, too, which was the up side.) Dave: Actually, the rule for newly-discovered planets and moons (with the exception of the moons of Uranus) seems to be that they're named from -Classical- (Greco-Roman) mythology; there aren't any moons named Bel-Marduk or Nergal or Thor or Loki or Osiris or Set either, for instance. (It's probably appropriate that there aren't any named Brahma or Shiva or Ho-tai or the like, since there are still people who worship those gods. But there are few if any who still worship the Babylonian or Norse or Egyptian gods, any more than the Greco-Roman ones.) I don't know if they're naming the extra-solar planets they're finding yet, but in science fiction a common convention is to name them from non-Classical mythology. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:15:03 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest *please post* ... and here's the chronology for OZMA OF OZ. *********WARNING: POTENTIAL SPOILERS FOR "OZMA" AHEAD*********** Day 1 - Storm at sea - Dorothy washed off boat on chicken coop Day 2 - Storm subsides - Billina lays her 1st egg - Dorothy & Billina washed up on Evian coast - meet Tik-tok - escape Wheelers - imprisoned by Languidere Day 3 - Ozma & party approach Evna in AM - free Dorothy, Tik-tok, Billina - discussion of plan to free the royal family of Ev Day 4 - Party leaves Evna at daybreak - Billina lays her 2nd egg - they enter the Nome King's dominions - Ozma, Tin Woodman, 26 officers & private begin guesses, which continue until "after midnight" - Billina falls asleep under Nome King's throne Day 5 - Early in AM Billina learns of Nome King's power - Tik-tok enchanted - Dorothy frees Evring - Billina lays her 3rd egg, disenchants remainder of party - Dorothy seizes Magic Belt - party escapes - Evardo proclaimed King of Ev Day 6 - Dorothy's party crosses the desert - night with "Munchkin king" Day 7 - Party meets Jinjur - welcome at Emerald City "Several weeks" pass before Dorothy leaves Oz for Australia *******************END SPOILERS*********************** Thanks to all for their encouraging comments. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 17:53:21 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-13-96 Priority: normal Comments: Authenticated sender is Robin: It was in _Royal Book_ that Thompson stated that Ozish and English are the same. It was either when Dorothy first met Camy and Doubty, or when she encounters the Scarecrow on the Silver Island. Tyler: True, magic is often used as a solution in the Oz books, sometimes annoyingly so. This does seem to be preferable to solving problems with war, however. Wonderland may well be in the same dimension as Oz. There are many similarities between the two lands. Kevin: I don't know about Miranda, but I believe that Titania and Oberon both predate Shakespeare. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:14:12 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Well, I was just thinking the other day about possible Christmas presents I might want and came up with the following... A CD-ROM with all issues of the Baum Bugle, all known Baum historical information, including photographs, letters, manuscripts, etc. Some footage of the Oz film movies would be nice, too. In addition, there should be something about the club, with perhaps some narration by several members. Some photos or video from past conventions would be appropriate. Rare Baum and Oz items should be pictured. An interactive tour of Ozcot would be nice. Of course, this would have a full search function and be cross-indexed. In addition to this CD, I feel another one with all 40 Oz books would be nice to have, too. Again, this would have a full search function and be cross-indexed, with animations and videos. An interactive tour of the Emerald City would be nice. Oh, and please hurry. You only have 13 more days! Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:37:59 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Dave - Pacific Grove is the pretty little town where Asilomar is located. It is next to Monterey and not far from Carmel. It is as far from LA as possible, thank you, in every aspect I can imagine. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 21:28:05 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Nathan: The only examples I can remeber offhand is the Long-Eared Hearer telling the Nome King that the women of America have clubs and something about the Great Book of Records listing automobile accidents in the U.S. It seems that the people of Nonestica do have some knowledge of our world. Ulan Bator is the capital of Mongolia, between China and Russia. Quite an out-of-the-way place, although the population is around 540,000. Also, there are Halifaxes in Nova Scotia, England, Massachussetts, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Vermont and Virginia, and Halifax Bay in Australia. David: I guess when you get right down to it, the only reason I had for believing that the Ozzy Universe was much smaller than our own was to make it exclusively linked to Earth. That is, the only other place you can get to from Nonestica was Earth and there is no other place in their Universe. In this way, the Oz Universe is merely an extra-dimensional extension of our own planet, thus making it truly an American (or Terran) fairyland. I suppose that in the final analysis, there really is no reason or need for the Oz Universe to be so much smaller than yours. The only hint is the collection of stuff in their atmosphere, implying that such things as stars are a lot closer than in our world. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:35:05 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-13-96 > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-12-96 > > Language in Oz: I'm pretty sure that there's a line somewhere in the FF > that actually states that Ozzish = English. I can't think of where the line > is, though. Does the Shaggy Man say it? Steve, do you know? Eric? > Someone? I recall it being an authorial statement Thompson made as an aside, and no, I don't recall which book, nor am I going to re-read them all in the vain hopes of finding it (although I seem to recall it being ca. the late 20's). Now, if I had that CD-ROM of all the texts of the Oz books, I could just type in "English" as a search parameter and see what happened... > My server will be down for repairs from Friday through Sunday. I'm gonna > miss the DIGEST. Dave, you are going to save them and send them to Robin later, no? > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-12-96 > > Dave: > As others will no doubt tell you, Pacific Grove is the name of the city in > which Asilomar is located - it's a suburb of Monterey. It's where the Winkie > Conference has been held for the last ten or twelve years at least. Alas, no > closer to LA. (Alas for your sake; for Eric, say, it's good news.) It's not that big a deal for me, all parts of California are equally inaccessible to me, so going a little further south to LA wouldn't be a big deal. However, the Monterey Peninsula IS much easier to drive to from Seattle... --Eric "No, that CD-ROM doesn't really exist yet, it's a pipe dream at this stage, so stop drooling, everyone, I want one too" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### "Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!" --Calvin, "It's a Magical World," page 99 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 00:24:01 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-12-96 Thanks Eleanor & Steve: For discovering that 'feminist' dates back before 1915. As you can tell, I do not have an Oxford Dictionary. My Thesaurus must have been prepared by male chauvinists.... Only $1600 for the Oxford Dictionary? I'm going to run out and get one... :-) On people revisiting Oz: In a book about Irish faeries, mortals are warned not to eat anything in Faeryland, or they're stuck there forever. First-time visitors to Oz and its adjoining countries *could* get the magical charge from eating the native foods--and be attracted to Baumgea thereafter because of magically-charged molecules from fairyland foods that have become part of the body. A milder form of the Irish "once you eat food in Faeryland you stay there forever" rule. Supposely, at the rate the human body is said to remove and replace its molecules until ALL are replaced, it would take seven years to lose the Baumgean magical charge. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 00:08:12 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Re: MAGICAL DEVICES: I always wished Baum in Lost Princess had had Ugu steal the magic belt too.... Re: Oz Christmas Presents: Well, I was just thinking the other day about possible Oz Christmas presents I might want and came up with the following... A CD-ROM with all issues of the Baum Bugle, all known Baum historical information, including photographs, letters, manuscripts, etc. Some footage of the Oz film movies would be nice, too. In addition, there should be something about the club, with perhaps some narration by several members. Some photos or video from past conventions would be appropriate. Rare Baum and Oz items should be pictured. An interactive tour of Ozcot would be nice. Of course, this would have a full search function and be cross-indexed. In addition to this CD, I feel another one with all 40 Oz books would be nice to have, too. Again, this would have a full search function and be cross-indexed, with animations and videos. An interactive tour of the Emerald City would be nice. Oh, and please hurry. You only have 11 more days! Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:43:36 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Digest David: Another example of magic working outside Oz the wishing sand that brought Humpy to life and then transported him and Dorothy dack to Oz. Of course the magic did originate in Oz, but it works in California. It is directly stated that English is the same as Ozish in PIRATES where Peter asks the Shellbacks if they speak Ozish and it is noted that that was the same as English (NB: I am writing this in my office and my collection is at home, so I may have the facts somewhat off). OZIANA: A few years ago I had copies made and bound (with club permission) of the first 5 issues of OZIANA and sold them at IWOC conventions for $5. I probably have a few of these left, or could have others made, and would be willing to part with them for that price. (steller@pittstate.edu) Dave: Pacific Grove in on the Monterey Peninsula. Asilomar National Seashore and Convention Center is inside it. Things have not moved. It is no nearer LA. Quel dommage! Bill Stillman just informed me that the Fall 1996 BUGLE will soon be in the mail. It is a big issue. Fred Meyer's Christmas Card just arrived. IWOC has members in 22 countries and 49 states (there is no member from West Virginia. California has the most members with 298 (more than twice any other state) Virginia (!) is number 2. IWOC was founded in 1957 with 16 members (one of whom, Ruth Berman, is a digest member). Next year is its 40th anniversary. This is my last chance to say Happy Hannukah! Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 15:53:19 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things I like Melody's idea of the "magical charge" coming from eating food in Baumgea! On the subject of an Ozzy CD-ROM, I can't help thinking that if we combined our creative juices, we could put together something, both with Ozzy info (sort of an electronic _Oz Scrapbook_), and pictures, sounds, and other interactive goodies from us. In any case, I think we could create something a little better than Roger Baum's thing! Scarecrow: Not by THIS Christmas though! :) Scraps: Who IS Roger Baum, anyway? Ozma: He's an Oz writer--about as much like *L. FRANK* Baum as... Dan (with apologies to M. Twain): Lightning is like the lightning *BUG*? :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 15, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 19:44:38 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TWODAY'S OZ GROWLS Nathan - So it's true about the younger generations's knowledge of geography! Ulan Bator is the capitol of Mongolia. Halifax, likewise, is the capital of Nova Scotia. Now go to the board and write...... :) Tyler - Your mother had a serious problem with time. The distance from December to July in either direction is not two months? Please don't shatter David's and my time honored illusion that July would have been a better birthday month. :) Melody - Thanks - it's in the mail. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:14:57 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz David: One of our many theories is that during the time of _Lost Princess_, the Belt was drained of power, after the mass-teleportation at the end of _Emerald City_, so Dorothy was only able to use it for simple things. Ken: I am in Heaven! (or maybe the Emerald City). Now we have chronologies for THREE of the FF! Scott Olsen: An Ozite by the name of Nate Barlow was working on a project to put every issue of _The Baum Bugle_ on CD-ROM while at Carnegie Mellon University. I have not from Nate in quite a while, so I do not know the status of it. We may have to wait until all of the FF go into Public Domain for your other wish list item, though. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:51:07 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-14-96 Kenneth: Any idea who that Munchkin King was? Melody: It could be the fairyland food that magically charges people. Foods in Oz and other parts of Nonestica certainly do have strange effects. Not only does fairyland contain Dama-Fruits and micromorphosa pessim, but the Scooters mention that raw fish make their sails grow, the Shellbacks state that there own shells are formed when they eat shells (I think), Carter Green becomes a Vegetable Man when he eats a lot of vegetables, and Kabumpo is afraid to eat the food in Gaper's Gulch, because he thinks it might put him to sleep. Scott: Ugu's books and notes were too outdated to mention the Magic Belt, I suppose. In _Handy Mandy_, the Wizard of Wutz does attempt to steal the Belt. David and Tyler: Maybe I thought Halifax was in New Jersey because it was the home state of both the author of _Runaway_ (Neill) and the editor (Shanower). David: I don't believe that Baum ever mentioned Ozish. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 16, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 11:26:52 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-15-96 Bear: Did you know where Ulan Bator was when you were nineteen? Tyler: It is possible that the Belt was drained of power at the end of _Emerald City_. After that, it is used for a few tasks in _Lost Princess_, transporting the fan in _Royal Book_, and sending Ruggedo to Runaway Island in _Kabumpo_, but its next major use was probably in _Grampa_, in which Ozma uses the Belt to transport Grampa's party from Perhaps City to Ragbad, and then to send everyone to their proper homes. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 08:30:13 -0500 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: For the Digest Last night on CNN there was a report on the MGM Munchkins, and brief clips of an interview with Jerry Maren, Margaret Pellegrini, and Ruth Duccini (I hope I got that last name right). They mentioned Cox's new book and showed the three little people signing copies of the book. I only caught the last couple minutes, so I didn't tape it, and there wasn't anything groundbreaking, but it was a nice thing to happen upon. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 23:20:19 +1100 From: Sunny Koh Subject: Text on the Web To All, I'm Sunny Koh and a newbie to this mailing list (Hopefully not clueless). My question/request is about what happened to the books by Baum online?? Those which haven't been edited yet. When I try to request the site, there isn't a reply? What happened to the person maintaining? I also noticed a few people with web links to his page at http://rrnet.com/~djamund/books/ . The lost of that site is a great lost to all. I would like to setup a site like that but I'm in need of those text which are found only at that site. I'm willing to place this on two of my web accounts should one server goes down. Should you have any text part of the FF or other texts written by L Frank Baum, please e-mail them to me at sunnykoh@ozemail.com.au . If we work together, we could have a web site with the texts of all 40 books and others. Thank You. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Sunny Koh Business SunnyKoh@t130.aone.net.au Personal sunnykoh@tmba.design.net.au sunnykoh@ozemail.com.au Mailing List d9530021@helios.usq.edu.au ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 05:12:57 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-14-96 Somehow I ended up with a double post yesterday. Actually, I thought the original was lost so I resent it... Sorry you all had to suffer through it twice.... --Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:15:40 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Bear: Out of curiosity, I sat down and calculated the day of the year that is farthest away from Dec. 25 and July 17. It is April 6. At three and a half months, it is clearly outside the two-month radius of both, but as we all know from our childhood, a mother's perogative transcends such insignificant things as time and the laws of physics. In other words, if my mother said that Christmas just happened two months ago, then so shall it be. :-) Nathan: The identity of the Munchkin King in _Ozma_ has caused a lot of discussion and theorizing. The text in _Ozma_ clearly implies (almost states explicitly) that the Nome Kingdom is closest to the Munchkin Country. Every other reference in the Oz series says that it is nearest the Winkie Country. The best possible explanation I can think of is that the group took a short tour of Oz before going to EC, but Baum glossed over it in the interest of story flow. Therefore, the party appears to have crossed directly into the Munchkin Country, but actually did not. Since this is Ozma's first major undertaking since ascending the throne, it would make sense for her to take a short tour to acquaint some of the local rulers with her, so there is some justification for this theory. Some people have conjectured that the king was King Cheeriobed from _Giant Horse_, before Mombi caused all that bad stuff to happen. I do not think this is the case, though. Evidence to date strongly suggests that Mombi must have done her stuff to the Ozure Isles before this time, and that Ozma never knew who Cheeriobed was until _Giant Horse_. I myself think that this person was just a local ruler of one of the minor communities. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:32:59 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-14-96 Ta'averen: Someone had mentioned in an earlier DIGEST Jordan's concept of characters around whom the weave of life makes a special junction. They are (literally) central to the weave of events...things kinda revolve around them, and major events tend to happen when they're around. Oz is an American fairyland, and all of its Ta'averen seem to be American. They change the scheme of Ozian events. Ozzish/English: Thanks for the R.P.T. references. Baum never said it, eh? Somehow I thought he had, but I've been wrong before. I get to start LOTR next weekend. It's finally gonna be Xmas break! As you can see, my server is back up, so I really didn't miss too much. My DIGESTS were waiting for me. Yay! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 22:50:03 -0500 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi once more! Another hectic season, but a lot of things to catch up on... LANGUAGES ON BAUMGEA: Very likely Thompson is right about English being the language of Oz, though I doubt it's the language of all the surrounding areas (Baum specifically mentions a separate "Pingarese language" in RINKITINK, for instance). As for how the Silver Island puns make sense in English, I chalk it up to a "translator's" hand...much as the English translations of the French ASTERIX comics replace the original French puns with English ones. (And a few foreign countries some of whose people know English...far more frequently so, sad to say, than Americans knowing other languages...have been known to make puns in the language; it frequently occurs in Japanese comics.) NONESTICAN ASTRO(Z)NOMY: Quite possible the Nonestican moon is closer to its Earth than ours is, as David H. speculated. But, in that case, why was the Red Jinn in YANKEE so incredulous when told Earth people in America had reached the Moon...or was he unaware his fellow Evian (?), Mr. Tinker, had done so three quarters of a century before? KNOWLEDGE OF THE OUTSIZE WORLD IN OZ (AND VICINITY): In PATCHWORK GIRL, the obnoxious talking phonograph Victor Columbia Edison is playing records that unquestionably originate in America and elsewhere in the known world. (Did Dr. Pipt originally teleport the phonograph, complete with records, from outside?) In LOST PRINCESS, the Big Lavender Bear threatens to send his subjects to America to be played with by children if they don't obey him, though as far as we know he never does son (possibly never could). Carrying that a step further, the natives of Thompson's Illumi Nation claim *all* candles come from there, a claim that presumably can be taken with a grain of salt (I've *seen* candles made). In several of the books the characters celebrate Christmas (and, in MERRY GO ROUND, Easter), so presumably they have at least some familiarity with the life and career of Jesus. MARCH LAUMER: I'd still like to read his books; they hardly seem any more non-Ozish than A BARNSTORMER IN OZ or WICKED. (Does Laumer ever put other people's characters in Oz? I wouldn't even mind seeing his brother's characters: RETIEF IN OZ might be fun...) EVERYONE: If I can't post again...though I'll try to...have a very Merry Christmas and, as Fred Mayer would say, an Ozzy New Year! Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 23:43:15 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Twoday's Oz Growls David - On Nov 12th Danny commented: >Maybe, just maybe, it isn't Ozma that has fulfills the magic in the land. Maybe Dorothy herself is more than what she seems, and is able to serve as some sort of magic magnet or lightning rod and was able to act as a catalyst to the magic potential around her. In this light, maybe it wasn't so much of an accident that the tornado picked up her house, and landed her in a magic land on top of powerful magic shoes (which happened to be occupied at the time. . .) Ah, too much sugar before betime. . . Danny So the next day, I responded, "Danny - Maybe Dorothy is a "ta'veren." (I'm a big Jordan fan. The concept seemed to work and I wanted to see if there were other Jordan fans on the Digest.) We kicked the idea around a bit after that. Sounds like the ideal time for the "Ozzy CD-ROM" would be for the 50th. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 01:10:44 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 12-15 *please post* ...and just to keep Tyler happy-- ***********WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR "DOTWIZ" AHEAD********** Day 1 - Dorothy meets Zeb & Jim around 5 AM - earthquake - descent to Mangaboos & arrival of the Wizard - the party kills Gwig & picks the Princess Day 2 - Fire trick before the Mangaboos Days 3-4 - "Two or three days" pass Day 5 - Party driven into Black Pit - pass through Valley of Voe - sleep in country of Gargoyles Day 6 - Escape from Gargoyles during "night" - the party encounters the Dragonettes - Ozma uses the Magic Belt at 4:00 PM Day 7 - Jim meets the Sawhorse - holiday and procession in honor of the Wizard's return Day 8 - Festivities continue Day 9 - On "the third morning after Dorothy's arrival" Ozma misses the piglet - trial of Eureka begins at 3:00 PM Day 10 - Dorothy looks in the Magic Picture "the next evening after the trial" - party for Dorothy and Zeb Day 11 - Dorothy, Eureka, Zeb and Jim return to their homes in the AM ****************END SPOILERS***************** Did I mention that I did this originally about 11-12 years ago when I couldn't find a job in my field and was chasing around for something productive to do? Nathan-- I have absolutely no clue as to who the Munchkin king is supposed to have been. This reference to him in OZMA is almost unique. It's launched a lot of speculation about early Oz history and Pre-Dorthean Oz in particular. I'm not sure how much sense this will make to you--it will depend on how familiar with the Oz canon you are--but I'll take advantage of the opening to pontificate a little.... *****NOTE: STILL MORE POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR PRACTICALLY EVERYTHING OZISH****** The "Munchkin King" in OZMA has been cited as a means of dating events in early Oz history. It really depends on interpretation. Here are some solutions that have been suggested. 1. He was Cheeriobed's father who was deposed and destroyed by Mombi (see GIANT HORSE). This is an attractive suggestion that has been picked up by several Oz scholars. However, there are difficulties with fitting it into Oz history. Cheeriobed's father was stolen away and destroyed by Mombi after his son rejected her. But at the time that OZMA takes place, Mombi had been deprived of her magical powers by Glinda (see MARVELOUS LAND), so she could not have destroyed the king or sent Quiberon to the Sapphire City unless she did it by nonmagical means. Alternatively, the destruction of Mombi's powers might not have worked--but I reject this as unlikely. Mombi's later actions (taking a position as cook in Kimbaloo--see LOST KING) suggest that she had not recovered her powers. 2. This was some other, local, official whom Baum labelled "King of the Munchkins." This is entirely possible, but I have no idea how you'd prove it. There seems to be nothing in the FF that gives a hint one way or another. 3. Baum made a mistake in setting down the story. I find this the most likely solution. According to the maps issued by the IWOC, the Nome Kingdom and Ev are across the desert from the WINKIE country, not the Munchkin country. I think Baum got the countries turned around--perhaps he was relying on Prof Wogglebug's unusual cartography, with its mirror compass rose--and wrote "Munchkin" when he meant "Winkie." If it really was a Winkie potentate, however, we are no closer to finding out who it might have been. The Tin Woodman was with Ozma's party... Dave might have some additional theories based on LOCASTA... *****END SPOILERS (AGAIN)***** Best, KRS ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 02:14:10 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-15-96 Bear: You're welcome! Nathan: Yes, some Oz food does have strange effects--though it's likely not true of all Oz food. After eating a 'micromorphosa pessim', Dinny/Tip finally finds the stuff that has *no* effects (aside from attracting vistors from the Outside back to Oz! :-) ) In the case of Carter Green, maybe he got hold of some magical veggies--Oz would be a dreadful place if all its veggies did that to *everybody* who ate them!. David Hardenbrook: My, looks like that last Digest got ahold of a 'micromorphosa pessim' berry... :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 23:26:33 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZZY ACTORS IN OTHER MOVIES/TV: I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I've been seeing a lot of things featuring actors from the MGM _Wizard of Oz_ over the last few days...About a week ago I saw _Shop Around the Corner_ with Frank Morgan as a gift shop owner in Budapest. Three or four nights ago they had _The Young Philidelphians_, which "stars" Paul Newman as an aspiring young lawyer, but it's his client Billie Burke who steals the show! And the other night I watched the episode of _The Odd Couple_ in which Jerry "Lollipop Guild" Maren plays a diminutive jockey who gives Oscar tips on the horses. MUNCHKIN KING?: ***** WARNING: MODERATELY LARGE SPOILER AHEAD FOR _LOCASTA AND THE ****** ******* THREE ADEPTS OF OZ_! ******************************************** I go along with Kenneth that Baum probably made an error in _Ozma_. The loss of Mombi's powers at the end of _Land_ seems to preclude any other explaination. The only other possiblity that _Locasta_ offers is that Cheeriobed was actually deposed by Taarna, the daughter of the Wicked Witch of the East who Mombi enslaved as a genie...The big problem is that I'm sure of what Mombi's three wishes of Taarna were, and none of them involved Cheeriobed. Besides which, the Adepts assure me that Mombi *must* have gotten rid of Taarna before Mombi lost her powers, or else she'd have wished for her powers to be restored (unless Mombi was too stupid, which I suppose is possible since she never thought to wish for *stronger* powers when she still had them). In any case, this all seems far too complicated when it seems just as plausible that Baum just made a boo-boo...So I guess I've revealed a fragment of _Locasta's_ plot for nothing... :) *************************** END SPOILER ************************ -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 17, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:49:08 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-14 thru 16-96 I got behind over the weekend (my wife turfs me out of my usual computer area to watch the NFL, and they're playing both Saturday and Sunday now), so I have three Digests to respond to: 12/14: Aaron: I agree that there must have been an Old Ozzish language. Not only are there some residual words such as those you mention, but many personal names in Oz (e.g. Boq, Omby Amby, Nimmie Amee, the Aru family, etc.) are unlike any American or British names. Also the calendar in years "O.Z." probably refers to some phrase in Old Ozzish. Your theory as to how Oz became Anglophone sounds as reasonably as any. Scott: Those CD-ROMs are on my wish list, too! (Copyright permission would have to be obtained to put about half of the FF on the second one, though. I suspect that this wouldn't be difficult for the McGraw, Neill, and Payes books - especially if a royalty were included - but it might still be for the non-PD Thompsons, from what I've heard.) Eric: It's true that anywhere in California is a long drive for you, but LA is an extra six hours or so of mostly rather boring countryside, which isn't trivial. Steve: There are quite a few examples of magic working in America - another one that hasn't been mentioned is the magic that brings Peter back to Oz at the beginning of JACK PUMPKINHEAD - but in most cases the magic clearly originated in the Oz universe. I was surprised to see that Virginia was #2 in IWOC membership myself. I think Illinois was #3, or no worse than #4 anyhow. I'm looking forward to getting the Autumn BUGLE. 12/15: Tyler: I agree with the theory that the Magic Belt was drained of power after all the work it did at the end of EC, but that doesn't explain why Dorothy says in LP that she doesn't know how it works (though she figured some of it out in the course of the book), when she knew in OZMA. If she'd said it couldn't do much any more, that would have been consistent with the "discharge" theory, but she said she didn't know how to use it, other than that it would protect her from harm. Nathan: It doesn't make a lot of sense that Ugu's books would mention the Wizard's Black Bag and not the Magic Belt, when the Magic Belt came to Oz before the Wizard had his Black Bag. I suppose this could be rationalized, though, by assuming that Ugu's books did mention the Wizard in his humbug days but thought he was a real wizard then, and that Ugu just grabbed whatever of the Wizard's looked as if it might be magic. You could be right that Baum never mentioned Ozish. I had the vague feeling that he did, but I've no idea where he'd have done it. 12/16: Nathan: I knew where Ulan Bator was when I was 19, but then I was both a geography freak and a stamp collector. I'd guess that no one else in my high school class would have known. (Halifax, now - at least the one in Nova Scotia - would have been familiar to most of my classmates. We did study Canada in school. But Mongolia was pretty obscure even in the Fifties.) Sunny Koh: From your address I infer that you're from Oz yourself, in a manner of speaking? I haven't tried to access the on-line Oz books, so I don't know what might have happened to them. I hope they haven't been lost permanently. I know that I've often had difficulty accessing particular sites one day, and then found them unharmed the next. Maybe I'll try to find one of the on-line books when I log back on to send this E-mail. Tyler: I agree that the King of the Munchkins mentioned in OZMA (and in ROAD, for that matter) is almost certainly just a local ruler - a "king of some Munchkins", and not the ruler of the whole country. Baum did say, after all, that Unk Nunkie might have been King of the Munchkins if the whole country hadn't decided to accept Ozma as their sole ruler. And we know from OJO that at most Unk would have been King of Seebania, not of the whole country. (That would, of course, assume that Ree Alla Bad had been destroyed and that Ojo had not been born; Unk would then have been next in line for that throne.) Rich: You're probably right about the puns in the Silver Island episodes being the translator's hand at work; they do that with both the English and German translations of Asterix, as you mention. (Personally, I like the English puns better than the French ones, but that's a matter of taste. Certainly the English translators are good at it. A lot of American Francophiles disagree, but I suspect that's more a matter of linguistic snobbery than anything else. Jokes in a foreign language that you understand always seem funnier somehow.) Maybe Jinnicky was incredulous about Americans reaching the moon because he knew that the moon in the American universe was a lot farther away than in his? He did seem to know quite a bit about our world. In which books do characters celebrate Christmas (other than L&A OF SANTA CLAUS)? Not saying they don't; I just don't remember a case (in the FF or related early books; certainly there are cases in some of the more recent books, most notably CHRISTMAS IN OZ). And such celebrations as do occur are free from all religious trappings; Easter seems concerned entirely with eggs, and Christmas with toys. I haven't read any of Laumer's books, but from what I've heard they're much closer to the FF-Oz than either BARNSTORMER or WICKED. Bear: Ah, so the "t'averen" post from Robin was with reference to something that was discussed close to a month ago. No wonder I was confused (since I've never read Jordan and so had no association with the referent). Ken S.: Yes, you mentioned that you'd done the chronologies some years ago while you were looking for work. However they came about, I greatly appreciate your posting them. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:48:38 -0800 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Oz books online-- I know they are out there somewhere! WIZARD and LAND, definately. I remember reading MAGIC this way. . . Perhaps a comprehensive search is in order, using web pages and search engines, to find the specific URLs. Dave, if this happens (I don't know. Maybe I can do it in my spare time --note the oxymoron--. . . I'm having a heck of a time doing this for Wonderland and Carrollian works) could you put in inthe Digest FTP archive? Maybe the Bugle or Gazette could use the blurb as well. . . Ozzy search-- Those oz books that ARE online, you can create a searchable document with. Simply download the file and save it on a disk or harddrive, then open the file in a good word processing application like Word or Wordperfect, and use the SEARCH command. For those books NOT online, however, you could type the transcript yourself, but you'll probably do just as well by turning the pages. Happy searching. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:03 -0600 (CST) From: gbirrell@post.cis.smu.edu (Gordon Birrell) Subject: Ozzy Digest David: About the non-use of the Magic Belt in _Glinda_: oops! I forgot about the intracies of magic, sorcery, and witchcraft. My original thought was that the Magic Belt was powerful enough for multi-directional teletransport to and from Baumgea, so surely it could get Dorothy and Ozma a couple of hundred feet from the bottom of the lake to the surface. But of course this is a *magic* belt, whereas Coo-ee-oh's spell is *witchcraft*. My reading of the distinction between the two is that the witchcraft is not necessarily more powerful than the magic, but the two are incompatible operating systems, somewhat like Betamax and VHS. So if you want to outwit a witch, you have to crack her OS and deal with her within the terms of her own field of power. Right? Since it may be some time before Nate Barlow gets all those issues of the Baum Bugle onto a CD (bless you, Nate, and godspeed!), I wonder if anyone knows whether it's possible to get ahold of articles from the Bugle through interlibrary loan. And is there an ongoing index of articles that a person could use to request specific material? Sunny Koh: I too am worried at the disappearance of http://rrnet.com/~djamund/books/. In the meantime, a small number of the books are on-line thanks to the Gutenberg Project, and you can get the list of these as well as a few others at http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/book/authorsearch?Baum%2C+L.+Frank Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:58:42 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-16-96 Tyler: I do not think that the Munchkin King was either Cheeriobed or his father. Actually, we do not know who ruled the Munchkins between the reigns of Cheeriobed and his father, but apparently it was someone selected by Ozma. Passages in _Patchwork Girl_ and _Ojo_ state that the Seebanians had to give up their claims to the entire Southern Munchkin Country when Ozma herself selected new rulers. One problem with this theory is that Ozma crowns Cheeriobed in _Giant Horse_, and the text does not mention that she is dethroning some other King. Perhaps the Queen of Oz did consult with the interim Munchkin Monarch, but this was not documented in the book. Rich: I do not really recall a reference to "Pingarese," but it has been I while since I have read _Rinkitink_. It does seem to be clear, however, that not all Nonesticans speak English/Ozish as a first language. The Shellbacks speak Shell, although they also seem to be fluent in Ozish, and the Mifkets speak an ancient Arabic language. No matter how far the Moon is from Oz, it would seem odd that Jinnicky would be surprised by a lunar orbit when he had already received visitors from Anuther Planet. Anyway, I think I prefer the theory that Nonestica and the Great Outside World share the same Moon, although there may be another Nonestican Moon, to which Mr. Tinker climbed. Dr. Pipt's phonograph might have been imported from America. Victor, Columbia, and Edison were all American companies (I believe), and there do not seem to be very many other phonographs in Oz. BTW, electric lights are present in many of the Oz books. Could the phonograph and the electricity have been imported to Oz at the same time, or did Oz learn about electric light directly from Electra? The guard of the tunnel out of the Illumi Nation probably did not have complete information. After all, since he could not leave his native country without shrinking and losing his life, all of the candles that he knew of did come from Illumi. In Eric Shanower's _Ice King_, we meet a Winkie candle-maker named Flicker, proving that not even all candles in Oz come from the Illumi Nation. In addition to the Christmas and Easter references, I believe that someone mentions Halloween near the end of _Ozoplaning_. Kenneth: I am pretty familiar with the Oz canon. I have read every book in the FF, except for _Pirates_, as well as several non-FF Oz works. The _Ozma_ reference to the Munchkin King is not entirely unique. A Monarch of the Munchkins is mentioned in _Road_. The Wogglebug often seems to do things backwards. Remember the Reversible Chute in _Wonder City_? Some people have speculated that the Professor's magnification by magic lantern had something to do with this. Dave: At this rate, by the time _Locasta_ comes out, I'll already know the whole story! Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:05:12 -0500 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: An Ozian Mystery Solved Hi! Thanks so much to Kenneth Shepherd for his day-by-day breakdown of DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD IN OZ. Not only was it fascinating in its own right, but it also answers the frequently-asked question of why Dorothy took so long to signal Ozma. In OZMA OF OZ, Ozma agreed to look in on Dorothy "every Saturday morning," at which time Dorothy would make a special sign if she wished to go to Oz. So, if we assume it was a Saturday that she did make the sign in DOTWIZ, the story, by Ken's reckoning, would have begun on a Monday...explaining why Dorothy had to wait almost a week before she had a chance to signalling Ozma. So why, you ask, did she make the sign at 4:00 PM when Ozma was to look in on her in the *morning?* Very simple! Dorothy, when she left Oz, was heading for Australia, which (I checked a map) is 7-9 hours behind California, depending on what part of Australia Uncle Henry was staying in. So Ozma would have looked in on Dorothy at 7AM to 9AM Australian time every Saturday (the former might seem a bit early, but as a farm girl Dorothy would most likely be used to getting up early), which Dorothy was certainly intelligent enough to know translated to 4PM California time (or 6PM Kansas time). As to whether the countries in which Dorothy and the Wizard ended up were in the same time zone as California...maybe, maybe not. They probably assumed so (thinking they'd just fallen underground), but they couldn't have known the difference anyway without the sun...and Dorothy most assuredly would have kept her watch set the way it was, so she'd know for sure the exact time to signal Ozma. THE MUNCHKIN KING: Besides OZMA, there's also a "Monarch of the Munchkins" mentioned in ROAD. As has been suggested, this individual might have simply of been the King of one of the individual kingdoms in the Munchkin Country...or even Unk Nunkie. QUEEN ANN REDUX: Now that I think of it, Ann Soforth comes off at first more like one of the villains than as a heroine, doesn't she? She's out to conquer the world, whereas the book's "real" villain, Ruggedo, never aspired to the conquest of more than Oz alone. Of course, Ann is clearly overambitious, not evil. She never cuts up her subjects and feeds them to seven-headed dogs, or transforms other countries' rulers, as Ruggedo has been known to do. Indeed, although she winds up conquering (or at least helping to conquer) the Nome Kingdom, she never makes any attempt to rule it herself or annex it to Oogaboo. Probably the huge number of Nomes (all apparently male) would have been a bit hard for a single ruler (female, unmarried, and, Nero Zeero notwithstanding, showing every inclination to always remain so) to handle. Unless she married her own ruler-designate, Kaliko, which she very likely considered even vastly increased power in Baumgea a bit much to handle! Enough for now... Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:57:03 -0500 From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Denslow Book Here's another question for all you expert collectors. The same store where I bought "Mother Goose in Prose" now has a 1907 (or 1906?) book called "The Jewelled Toad," which was illustrated by W.W. Denslow. It's in rather crummy condition -- tattered cover, loose color plates, some loose pages, binding coming apart. Not sure if it's a first. The illustrations, however, are not surprisingly wonderful. Any idea how much I should be willing to pay for it? -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 23:09:22 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Nathan: Possible confirmation for this theory exists in _Scarecrow_. At the end of the story, Glinda informs Trot that there is no way to send her home at the present time, so she will have to stay in Oz. This may be taken to mean that the magic belt is currently low on power, but others have thought that Glinda knew that Trot did not have a happy home life, so she was allowed to stay in Oz gracefully. This may be true, but I also believe that the belt was low on power at that time. Sunny: I hope that Dennis has not vanished. His site was very useful. Maybe Bill Wright at the Piglet Press has some on-line text of the Baum 14 and beyond. Rich: It is possible that Jinnnicky knew of the greater distance to our moon, or perhaps he thought that us mere mortals could never have gotten there on our own. March Laumers books are of very high quality, although definitely written from an adult point of view. Perhaps Mr. Laumer may consent to having them transcribed online. Let me warn you in advance: _Green Dolphin_ is the worst of the lot. It is VERY VERY VERY unlike the others. Ken: I think I'm OD-ing on happiness, and we still have 36 to go! :-) There is one other reason that I think the "Munchkin King" was not the father of Cheeriobed. For those interested, March Laumer dubbed him Obadiah and claimed that Cheeriobed was named after him. He (Cheeriobed) was such a happy child that people called him "Cheery Obadiah", which became "Cheery Obed" and then "Cheeriobed". Anyway, let us assume for the moment that the king WAS Obadiah. He was therefore the ruler of the Munchkin country and recognized as such by Ozma. After Quiberon was placed there, communications would be cut off. Woudn't Ozma get curious after a while? Ozma: "Gee. I haven't heard anything from the Munchkin capital for about 10 years. I wonder what's up?" All in all, the best thing to assume is that Baum transposed the Munchkin and Winkie countries. As Ken says, however, we still have no clue as to who he was. His Majesty, King X: "Not only do people not know my name, they also think I'm a MUNCHKIN!" --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 00:17:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Munchkin King of Oz Empire ***WARNING: MINOR NON-PLOT-SPOILING SPOILER FOR LURLINE'S MACHINE*** 1) On this Baumian Munchkin King, in what Barry and I have written so far of Lurline's Machine, we have assumed that throughout Munchkin history, a number of local rulers have claimed to be the "true" monarch of the Munchkins, among them the rulers of the Ozure Islands, Seebania, and Munchkinezia (a place Barry and I invented which is most famous for supporting the Wicked Witch of the East). As Seebania and the Ozure Islands were basically "lost" at the time of _Ozma_, the Munchkin king mentioned could be the king of Munchkinezia (either Stan or his father Lee--the date of Stan's ascension to the throne has not been decided yet).= =20 On the other hand, we also claim that after the death of Gingemma, the true power of government passed to a civil goverment at a newly-formed town of Gale (in the obvious location) which was headed by an elected official formally titled Mayor but informally called King. This office was filled by several people throughout its history, including by Boq, the Scarecrow, and Unc Nunkie, and certainly the first could have been present in _Ozma_. But as Barry and I have written nothing which says anything like "The only thing of any importance Stan had ever done was greet Ozma on her return from Ev", we are proud to only add to the confusion. ***END WARNING*** 2) Dave, so Gingemma has a daughter? Now I'm wondering by whom and how this kid became a jinni; I had assumed that humans and jann were seperate species. Then again, seeing that humans can become fairy (Pretty Good/Urtha and Jenny Jump), it is conceivable for a human to become a different amortal species. Will have to put _Locasta_ on the queue for books to get... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 00:48:54 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Steven Teller: Seems odd that Virginia has so many Oz Club members, doesn't it? I would have guessed New York or Illinois (combination of population and local interest) as likely to be second after California. Tyler Jones and Nathan DeHoff: The idea that sending all those Nomes and Allied Villains home in "Emerald City" was a drain on the Magic Belt's power -- that would provide a convenient explanation for why Trot and Cap'n Bill could not be sent home in "Scarecrow." Even more than "Lost Princess" and "Glinda" (where Dorothy's unfamiliarity with magic-working and the possibility that the Belt's magic might not have been up to coping with the particular situations provide at least partial explanations), that a case where it seems Odd that the Belt wasn't used. I've sometimes thought that Trot's parents both died in the storm that started Trot and Cap'n Bill off for Oz, and that "inability" to send them home was an excuse Ozma was using to put off breaking the news to them until after they could settle in as Ozites. But genuine inability would make a better excuse. It isn't until even later than "Grampa," in "Gnome King," that the Magic Belt is used to send someone from Oz to America. ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 18, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:57:27 -0500 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Stuff Fellow Digesters: I'm in need of some help in finding a couple of items. First, I was able to obtain 5 of the 6 Wizard of Oz "Toddlers" dolls. I am missing "L'il Dorothy". Second, when a mini-tornado put 4 feet of pine tree thru my living roon wall last April, the impact knocked one of my Knowles "musical" Oz plates, #4, "If I Only Had A Brain", off a shelf, and shattered it. I will pay any reasonable price for these items. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:34:40 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-17-96 Gordon: I tried earlier today to access the Oz books online, and they are indeed no longer there; I get the message that they're not on that server. Maybe the person who put them there has switched Internet accounts and they're now on a different server with a different URL? Or maybe they're gone forever... Nathan: My feeling is that there probably wasn't a ruler of the whole Munchkin country in the interim between the destruction of Cheeriobed's father and Cheeriobed's crowning in GIANT HORSE. In fact, I'm not sure that there ever was a ruler of the whole Munchkin country, at least in the previous couple of centuries; the WWE apparently never ruled either the Ozure Islands or Seebania, for example, and Cheeriobed's father never ruled Seebania (and probably not the part of the Munchkin country the WWE ruled, either). For that matter, none of the rulers of the four quarters of Oz seem to have ever had complete control of their nominal domains, even if you exclude from consideration little enclaves like Tune Town or Loonville or Utensia or Doorways (which might, as Tyler theorizes, be little subuniverses of their own and not really part of Oz proper). Jinxland seems to have been completely independent of Glinda, the Yip country of Nick Chopper, and the Flatheads and Skeezers of the GWN, just to mention a few examples. Victor Columbia Edison appears not to have been run by electricity, but to be a wind-up phonograph; there's a mention of his winding crank somewhere in the story. So there's no reason to think that he and electricity came to Oz at the same time. Rich: It's true that Ozma told Dorothy at the end of OZMA that she'd look for her "every Saturday morning", but in DOTWIZ she tells the Wizard that Ozma will look for her "every day at four o'clock", not "today at four o'clock". Unless we don't believe Dorothy meant what she said, Ozma must have somehow communicated a change in the routine to her between the end of OZMA and the beginning of DOTWIZ. This might have involved Dot making a short unrecorded visit to Oz sometime during her Australian sojourn, or might just have been a note that Ozma sent her using the belt. (Though it's true that if Ozma only looked once a week, it answers the question of why it took Dorothy so long to get around to making the sign.) It's specific in OZMA that Uncle Henry was staying in Sydney, by the way. And Dorothy didn't have a watch; it was the Wizard's that they used to check the time. In fact, Queen Ann says at least once, if not more often, that she doesn't want anyone getting hurt when she's conquering them. (Of course, given her army, it's pretty unlikely anyone would get hurt, though it's even more unlikely anyone would be conquered.) So as conquerors go she's pretty benign. And I think you're somewhat confused; Queen Ann and her army don't even help conquer the Nomes. Kaliko is placed on the throne by Quox, at Tititi-hoochoo's command. Ann and her army were still crawling through tunnels at the time. Tyler: I don't think there's that much evidence that Trot has an unhappy home life. Certainly in SEA FAIRIES she's quite concerned that her mother might be worried about her, so Aquareine puts her mother in a sort of suspended animation until Trot and Cap'n Bill return. In SKY ISLAND Trot's mother seems a bit on the peevish side, but not enough so that it appears Trot is unhappy living with her. I think Ruth's idea that Trot's parents died somehow between her going down in the whirlpool and her arrival at Glinda's palace is a better one. Even if the Magic Belt is weak at that point, I think Glinda is probably capable of sending them home if she wanted to. Obed itself is a name that needn't be a contraction of Obadiah. In the Bible, Obed is the son of Ruth and the grandfather of King David. (Many if not most of the Biblical names ending in "iah" in their Anglicized version are a reference to the name of God; I don't know, though Aaron and others probably do, but it strikes me as quite possible that "Obadiah" is an extension of "Obed", meaning something like "Obed dedicated to Yahweh". Not that this is likely to have anything to do with Oz...) Ruth: The trouble with the idea that "Trot's parents both died in the storm that started Trot and Cap'n Bill off for Oz," is that there wasn't a storm; they were caught in a whirlpool, but Baum is very specific that it was a clear day with no wind. It's true that Cap'n Bill says something about "a whirl in the air makes a whirl in the water," but normally a really strong wind - of the tornado-like strength that it would take to threaten a person in a house - makes a waterspout, not a descending whirlpool. But that her parents might have died of -something- - typhoid, maybe, or dysentery - is plausible enough. People died quite rapidly and often in the 1910s. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:52:59 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S LOUD OZ GROWLS ******** SPOILERS FOR THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW**************************** Apparently, YEW is the book Baum wrote after WOZ? I bought a BOW copy to see how it fit in between and compared with the Oz series. I thought it was quite good, in context, with a number of interesting ideas, and some interesting psychological insights. I wondered if Baum had any knowledge of French? Baron Merd! The idea that a mortal could transform a fairy was a new one to me. Baum would be in deep with todays women - p. 15 "....women are poor, weak creatures..." p. 40 "If we mistrusted all who have ever done an evil act there would be fewer honest people in the world. And if it were as interesting to do a good act as an evil one there is no doubt every one would choose the good." The former makes sense. The latter escapes me. "Interesting evil?" p. 49 - In this book we have gone beyond yellow bricks - We have a white marble road. In case some of you are reading who haven't read the book I will not give away Prince Marvel's interaction with King Terribus. I thought it was one of the most interesting parts of the book. A precursor of many Oz books and many others is Marvel's gathering up a group and taking it on the road. This made me wonder about the history of this type of thing. Does anyone have any insight about this? Chaucer? Baum also demonstrates the "name thing" with King Terribus and the evil sorcerer, Kwytoffle. The artwork is by George O'Connor, who illustrated David Hulan's "Glass Cat." For David's book I thought the art was uniformly good, in Yew it is somewhat up and down. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder which brings me to ......... ***********END SPOILERS FOR THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW********************* I also bought the Zwerger WOZ. According to the book jacket "Lisabeth Zwerger has been accorded nearly every prize that can be given to an illustrator, including the highest international award for lifetime achievement, the Hans Christian Andersen Medal." Hmmmmm. Did she do WOZ on a bad day? Actually, it looks like most of it was done by her six year old child. To MY eye, her work is ugly and grotesque. You wont believe the WOZ, Scarecrow and Toto. Well, the cows, rhinocerous, pig, and Glinda are all right, but the rest, YUK! I would be really interested to hear the views of our artists - Melody, Dave, Ken, etc. on this work. Maybe artists avoid bad-mouthing the competition. I guess it is one more battle in the war between realistic art and someone's blobs, scribbles, demonstrated pathology or LSD trip (otherwise known as MODERN art - gag, choke, retch). Now that I have given my objective and fair-minded assessment, I checked back and found Dick and Jane (and maybe Spot) liked it, David and Ruth weren't attracted enough to buy it and Rebecca Bichel wanted other's opinions. Well you have mine FWIW. Nathan - I did know where Ulan Bator was when I was nineteen. In fact, I knew an awful lot, much more than I know now. The things I have forgotten would fill volumes. :) However, if I had known you were nineteen, I wouldn't have teased you. Tyler - Stellar observation. Tyler - I can see I argued with my mother more than you did! She was at least tolerant if not accepting. Now my father.... not tolerant, not accepting, no arguing, period. David - I envy you having missed Jordan. He has seven great books and an eighth is on the way. I love series. Speaking of envy, I have been trying to convince myself I have time to do what Robin is doing and read LOTR again. Oz books on line - I know for a fact that there are some here with full texts of Oz books in their computers. However, there is always the issue of legality of copies. Dave, if you were to make a list and indicate which ones are available and which aren't and which that are missing can be legaly copied, I would imagine people would donate to the collection. Briefly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:38:21 +1100 From: Sunny Koh Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-17-96 > Sunny Koh: > >From your address I infer that you're from Oz yourself, in a manner of > speaking? Yes, I'm a student/businessman in OZ down under, I'm not back in Singapore for 2 months. > I haven't tried to access the on-line Oz books, so I don't know what might > have happened to them. I hope they haven't been lost permanently. I know that > I've often had difficulty accessing particular sites one day, and then found > them unharmed the next. Maybe I'll try to find one of the on-line books when > I log back on to send this E-mail. I have repeatly try access Denis site from the start of last week until now. I have also noticed that first web page hasn't been change since May. Could it be that his account is deleted??? Danny : First of all, let me say that all books that are currently online are the ones which have been checked. The books would include the following The Wonderful Wizard of OZ The Land of OZ Ozma of OZ Dorothy and The Wizard in OZ The Road to OZ The Emerald City of OZ The Magic of OZ In addition, the other Baum books are online The Enchanted Island of Yew A Kidnapped Santa Claus The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus The Master Key John Dough and Chick The Cherub The Patchwork Girl of OZ and American Fairy Tales are also online but it is not due to the downing of Denis's Web page. Other than that, I'm very sure I have a copy of GLINDA of OZ because I was abut to proread it. That leaves the following hanging Tick-Tok of OZ The Scarecrow of OZ Rinkitink in OZ The Lost Princess of OZ The Tin Woodman of OZ Sky Island The Sea Faires Queen Zxix of Ix I hope thats all, am I missing anything??? BTW there is a one more work on OZ online called The Lizard of OZ, an adult adventure. I know that this is not much to go by but that is where we can start. I believe that if we check thru our harddisk that we could turn something up. I'll try e-mailing piglet press tonight when I get back. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Sunny Koh Business SunnyKoh@t130.aone.net.au Personal sunnykoh@tmba.design.net.au sunnykoh@ozemail.com.au Mailing List d9530021@helios.usq.edu.au ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:12:47 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-17-96 David said: > Nathan: > It doesn't make a lot of sense that Ugu's books would mention the Wizard's > Black Bag and not the Magic Belt, when the Magic Belt came to Oz before the > Wizard had his Black Bag. I suppose this could be rationalized, though, by > assuming that Ugu's books did mention the Wizard in his humbug days but > thought he was a real wizard then, and that Ugu just grabbed whatever of the > Wizard's looked as if it might be magic. Alternatively, knowing how powerful the Magic Belt is, Ozma and her court took greater pains to keep it a secret than any other piece of magic. Think about it: Who exactly knew about the Magic Belt and its powers? Not that many. If they could have been sworn to secrecy... > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff > > Oz books online-- > I know they are out there somewhere! WIZARD and LAND, definately. > I remember reading MAGIC this way. . . Perhaps a comprehensive search > is in order, using web pages and search engines, to find the specific > URLs. Dave, if this happens (I don't know. Maybe I can do it in my > spare time --note the oxymoron--. . . I'm having a heck of a time doing > this for Wonderland and Carrollian works) could you put in inthe Digest > FTP archive? Maybe the Bugle or Gazette could use the blurb as well. . I have a LONG list of Ozzy URL's in the FAQ on my web page, although it's already a bit out-of-date now. (I just checked all my links the other day, and found a bunch of them not working or out-of-date, including most of the online Oz books.) I would appreciate it if anybody who knows of additional sites I don't have would send me the URL's so I can check them out and include them on my links page, and in the next edition of the FAQ. --Eric Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" website! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok ### ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:14:14 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-17-96 David: In _Captain Salt_, the Captain mentions that he and his crew are going to spend Christmas in Oz. Also, there are many Thompson poems about this holiday being celebrated in Oz. Gordon: You may have a good point about the Belt. It is probably useless against certain types of magic, which is why many counter-transformations require more than just the Belt. Rich: It is highly unlikely that Unc Nunkie is the Munchkin King in _Ozma_. If he had been, Ozma would have recognized him when he came to the Emerald City in _Patchwork Girl_. BTW, is there any clue as to why Ozma decreased the power of the Seebanian King? It seems unlikely that she would have done this for no reason. Tyler: If Baum did get the Munchkin and Winkie Countries mixed up, then how did Ozma and Dorothy visit Jinjur's Ranch on their way to the Emerald City? Ruth: If Trot's parents did die, it would explain why we never heard about them again. What about Button-Bright's parents, though? Another sighting of Nonestican familiarity with the Outside World: In _Road_, the King of Foxville knows about Aesop's fables. This will probably be my last Digest entry for about a month, as I will be leaving school for Christmas break, and going home, where I do not receive e-mail. I'll be back around 12 January, when I shall hopefully have many Digests to respond to. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 04:07:46 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest *please post* Once more into the breech, dear friends... ******WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR "ROAD" AHEAD***** Day 1 (8/15) - Dorothy meets the Shaggy Man & Button-Bright - they arrive in Foxville - Button-Bright is enchanted - night in Foxville Day 2 (8/16) - The party meets Polychrome - they arrive in Dunkiton - Shaggy enchanted - night in Dunkiton Day 3 (8/17) - They meet the Musicker - they escape the Scoodlers - night on edge of Desert Day 4 (8/18) - Shaggy summons Johnny Dooit - they cross the Desert - Truth Pond - Tin Woodman's Castle Day 5 (8/19) - They meet Jack Pumpkinhead, Cowardly Lion & Hungry Tiger - dinner with Ozma Day 6 (8/20) - Guests begin to arrive - banquet in evening Day 7 (8/21) - Ozma's birthday - departure of guests - Dorothy returns to Kansas during night ****************END SPOILERS***************** Thanks to all for your kind remarks! Best, KRS ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:37:39 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-17-96 David: You wrote >>It's true that anywhere in California is a long drive for you, but LA is an extra six hours or so of mostly rather boring countryside, which isn't trivial. Rather boring countryside??? You gotta be kidding! California Rte. 1 up the Pacific Coast is a terrific drive. Sure, not all of it is fabulous, but there's enough of it that is so spectacular that it makes the trip a joy. On the other hand, as you point out, an extra six hours of driving time is certainly significant. Xmas in Oz: Well, there's the grabby Christmas tree in _Jack Pumpkinhead_.... King of the Munchkins: Henry Blossom does a good job explaining this character in his _Blue Emperor of Oz_. Jewelled Toad: I wouldn't pay more than, say, $20 for the darn thing. I probably wouldn't pay even that much, since it's in such poor condition. Ruth: What storm that started Cap't Bill and Trot on their way to Oz? In _Scarecrow_, all I can emember is the whirlpool. _Sea Fairies_ tells us that Trot's father, Charlie Griffiths, is captaining Cap't Bill's old ship. _Sky Island_ confirms that her dad is still alive, but not around much, being too busy captaining the schooner. You usually know more about Oz stuff than I do, so I guess I've missed something here. Your last post confused me.I always thought that both her folks are alive. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:29:16 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Year nnnn, O.Z.: March Laumer gave an explanation in his non-FF books. All of my Oz books are packed up, in anticipation of my move across town, so I will give you the bare bones. Some guy in Germany moved to Oz around the 10th century. How he did this is not recorded, but it must have been quite an effort! Anyway, he and his family loved to keep records of historical events. The rulers of Oz were so impressed with their skill that they made this family official chroniclers and started their calendar after them. O.Z. is low German for "Oue Zeit" (sp?) meaning "Old Time". David: The only reason I can think of for Dorothy's explanation in _Lost Princess_ is that she did not want to advertise the current weak state of the belt, just in case somebody unauthorized was eavesdropping. Christmas: The crew of the _Crescent Moon_ discuss spending Christmas in Oz at the end of the story. Gordon: I agree with much of what you said concerning the interoperability problems of different forms of magic. For example, if Dorothy had tried to use the Belt to raise the island in _Glinda_, it may have broken the mechanism used by Coo-Ee-Oh, thus causing a great deal of damage to the island. Also, the two types could have conflicted, possibly having the effect of matter and anti-matter colliding, which as any Trekker will tell you... Nathan: Evidence to date suggests that Ozma may not have chosen someone, despite the passage in _Ojo_. Rulers of the other three quadrants were already present when Ozma ascended the throne, and she did not depose them. Also, there is no indication that Ozma went on a grand tour of the country, switching rulers at a whim. What I believe happened is that the Seebanians, who ruled the southern part of the Munchkin country, realized that Ozma would not want them ruling other kingdoms, retreated to their borders. The story given in _Ojo_ was a little garbled, but close enough. Current HACC theory is that, at the time of _Wizard_, the Seebanians ruled in the south, Gingemma held sway in the center (possibly through King Stan, we'll have to wait for Aaron's book) and Obadiah/Cheeriobed ruled in the north. WHen these three powers were neutralized in various ways, there was no ruler of the Munchkins (Stan may have been, but we don't know that yet). yet). There may have been no ruler of the Munchkins at that time. One reason this is possible is that quadrant rulers are for the most part figureheads. Only with great infrequency do they do things in their official capacity as quadrant rulers. Glinda and the Tin Woodman are important characters, but not because they are quadrant rulers. Tattypoo was also a quadrant ruler, but almost no mention is given of her outside of Dave's book. Maybe the Munchkins never needed the extra administrational load. Stan: Hey, what am I? Choppped liver? The passage in _Rinkitink_ mentions the "queer letters of the Pingarese language". Their language may be entirely written, and they may speak the same as most Nonesticans do. If Earth and Nonestica share the same moon, then by extension we share the rest of the Universe, and this does not appear to be the case. Our two moons may be locked in phase, however, always near each other, but different. Munchkins in Road: The Monarch of the Munchkins mentioned marching in this parade is an interesting situation. He was part of a group of four, all mentioned as being rulers of one of the four quadrants. However, Baum mentioned the Emperor of the Winkies (when the Tin Woodman was marching elsewhere) and the King of the Quadlings (when Glinda was marching elsewhere). The Sovereign of the Gilikins may have been Tattypoo. The monarch may have been Stan, and given the evidence, it seems likely to me that there exist two more likely possibilities. Either these four were local rulers chosen as stand-ins to symbolically represent the chain of command up to Ozma, or they were the liasons between Ozma and the quadrant governments. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 02:13:13 -0500 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Craig Noble: The Jewelled Toad is not renowned for literary merit, but it IS one of the rarest Denslow-illustrated books. A nice copy sells in the hundreds of dollars, but what you describe is a reading copy, and the price to restore it is probably prohibitive. It would have to be resewn and rebacked to make it presentable, and the paper covered boards are very hard to repair. This was a very fragile binding, and I believe it only went through one edition. I'd have to see it to be more precise, but I would say that $20 is as much as you should pay. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:20:55 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_16 X-POPMail-Charset: English Gordon Birrell: I don't think "Bugle" articles are available through Interlibrary, but you could probably get photocopies at cost from people who have a full run of them (me, for example). There isn't an ongoing issue-by-issue index, but Fred Otto's index by title and author (with some limited subject headings), which the Oz Club published in an updated version a few years back, covers the issues up to 1988. Craig Noble: Yes, "The Jewelled Toad" has some of Denslow's best illustrations. The story isn't outstanding, but it's pleasant reading. Incidentally, the story has Gnomes and a Gnome King. (I included one of Denslow's Gnome illustrations, along with some other interesting Gnome illustrations from various sources in the "Dunkiton pamphlet" I did a couple of years ago on Gnome Matters). I paid $50 for my (fairly good condition) copy, but that was several years back, and I don't really know if that was high, low, or average at the time. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:23:01 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Rich: Re: An Ozzian Mystery Solved: Your explanation for Dorothy's delay in signaling Ozma in _Dorothy and the Wizard_ is ingenious and well argued, but there are a couple of hitches: a) would Dorothy have known to factor in the International Date Line along with all the other complicated calculations she needed to make to connect with Ozma at precisely 4:00? and--more important-- b) Ozma may have told Dorothy in the previous book that she would look in on her only on Saturdays, but in _Dorothy and the Wizard_ Dorothy says that Ozma does it every day. So why didn't she think of that much earlier, when she and her friends were having all that trouble in the Mangaboo kingdom? By the same token, of course, Dorothy could have saved herself, Shaggy, Button Bright, and Polychrome a lot of grief in _Road_ if she had remembered the agreement with Ozma. Or are we to assume that for some reason the daily surveillance and the secret sign were discontinued? But Ozma tells Dorothy at the end of _Road_ that she *was* in fact keeping an eye on her and had the Magic Belt at the ready to get her out of trouble. In light of all the plotting difficulties that Baum got himself into with this device, I'm beginning to think it as Ruggedo's Revenge--the curse of the stolen Magic Belt doubling back on the author himself :) Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:00:40 -0500 (EST) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Cozmography and Super-Friends Didn't you know that in Oz, the Wogglebug's academy has named the features on Anuther Planet Gardner, Myers, Olderman, Bar-Hillel, Hardenbrook, Hulan, etc.? Did anybody else see "Super Friends" on Cartoon Network last night? They had an episode where Mr. Mxyzptlk (or, as the TV show insists on calling him, Mr. Mxlplk) transforms Superman, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman into the Tin Woodman, Cowardly Lion, and Scarecrow, respectively, and sends them off to "Oz", telling them they must find the Wizard to return home again? I only saw the last half of this. Anyway, they meet some (Munhkins? Winkies?) who look and sound just like the Sand People of "Star Wars". They finally make it to the Wizard's palace, and of course, the wizard turns out to be none other than Mr. Mxyzptlk (gee, Supes' super-intellect couldn't see _that_ coming? *yawn*), with the whole thing merely being a plot....well, I don't want to spoil it.... --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:47:41 -0500 (EST) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-16-96 On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Nathan wrote: > > Bear: Did you know where Ulan Bator was when you were nineteen? Well, can't speak for Bear, but as for me, "Sure, same place it is now" (and yeah, I knew it from the time I was 13, at least...) ;-) But seriously, since you know apparently every detail of Geozzify, would it have hurt to apply the same effort to the world that you have more daily contact with? --Mike 2rniansky ====================================================================== Date: 18 December, 1996 14:26:32 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things I had a question enter my mind as Christmas approaches...If someone wrote a story called _Mrs. Claus in Oz_, would it have to be considered historically inaccurate since Baum said that Santa is unmarried? The movie _Interrupted Melody_ was on Turner's Movie Channel...In amongst all the opera arias, Eileen Farrell (lip-syncing for Eleanor Parker) also sung "Over the Rainbow"...Mark down one more in the "Oz references" file... In regards to Ozzy E-texts, I was some time ago sent the E-texts of the hard-to-find-on-the-'Net Oz books...I was waiting for him to respond to my request for confirmation that it is all right for me to distribute them to Digest members, but he hasn't yet, so I'm going to go ahead and say "They're available, at least until he says, 'NO NO NO!!!'" :) Seriously, I'll wait one more day for him to say if there's an impediment to my sending these out, and then in tomorrow's Digest I'll list what I have... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 19, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:01:39 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Nathan and Rich: Nathan's arguement also works for explaining why Unc Nunkie couldn't have been the Monarch mentioned in _Road_. Also, _Patchwork Girl_ implies that Unc Nunkie had been hiding out in the forest for years. Perhaps Ozma reduced the writ of the Seebanians for administrational reasons. For example, why can't the same person be mayor of more than one city or governor of more than one state? Ozma probably has a one-ruler, one-country policy. The visit to Jinjur's ranch was a continuation of Baums use of the Munchkin country in _Ozma_. The problem is that in every other book, in and out of the FF, the Nome Kingdom is mentioned as being opposite the Winkie country. We either have to ask why was Baum mistaken in one book or why was everybody else mistaken in nearly 100 others? Maybe the visit to Jinjur was part of the tour de Oz that I suggested earlier. By the way, all of my stuff is now packed, but could someone look in _Ozma_ and in the part that has Dorothy looking out of her prison, does Baum mention any directions when she looks to the desert and the ocean? Ken: YOur post reminded me that _Road_ was one of the few books where we know the date, based on Ozma's birthday. Robin: How could I have forgotten the stuff in _Blue Emperor_? I love that story, and as soon as I am moved and unpacked, I'll peruse it. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 00:00:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" 1) David, Obed ("servant") is more likely an abbreviation of Obadiah ("servant of God") than the latter being a variation on the former. All Biblical names ending in -iah, so far as I can tell, make reference to God. 2) I have all the Baum books that Dennis Admunson (sp?) posted to the net (the Baum 14 + _Mo_, _Ix_, _Yew_, _John Dough_, both Santa Claus stories, the Trot books, and _American Fairy Tales_). I can send them to anyone who wants, though please tell me how you'd prefer it compressed. I can also provide my own "The Evil Author of Oz" (a self-parody) if wanted. Also: Dave, you wouldn't happen to have the PD Thompsons and Snows on disk? If I remember correctly, somone out there does... (So sue me for having an itching to read _Wishing Horse_ again.) 3) Michael, I vaguely remember that Superfriends episode from years and years ago. If you care to be spoiled (as far as I can piece together) on the first half, please contact me privately via E-mail. 4) Tyler, Stan's kingdom, Munchkinezia (lit. "the capital of the Munchkins"), is in the central Munchkin country, close to Ku Klip's house. Barry and I have assumed that Gingemma was nominally THE ruler of Munchkinland, having usurped title to the territory from Pastoria, though we don't doubt that there were areas that were not quite so loyal to her. For that matter, we assume that similar situations existed in the other countries of Oz, even in Quadlingland under Glinda (which from _Wizard_, it seems that she ruled only south of Hammerhead Mountain) and Gillikinland under Locasta Tatti-Pu. Probably the only major territory in Oz that was never fractured was the Emerald County. Prof. Wogglebug: Or maybe not... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 00:35:24 -0500 From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Jewelled Toad Thanks to all who offered their advice on the Jewelled Toad. Once again, however, I made my move before I heard from you! Fortunately, I was able to bargain down from an asking price of $45 to a purchase price of $20. Just goes to show that one has to watch out for overpriced books. It also means I really should renew my membership to IWOC, which I let expire about 15 years ago (no coincidence that that's around the time I started high school.) Most of my collection I acquired from friendly folks through the Oz Trading Post and Munchkin conventions. I really should rejoin. -- Ozzily, Craig ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 20, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:07:16 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Bear (:<) says in the 12/18 Digest, < I did know where Ulan Bator was when I was nineteen. In fact, I knew an awful lot, much more than I know now. The things I have forgotten would fill volumes.> I always thought that Bear was an amazing person, and this proves it. He remembers all of those things that he has forgotten. My poor memory is such that I don't remember _anything_ that I've forgotten. :-) Also in the 12/18 Digest Tyler Jones says, Sounds like the reverse of the situation with the Chinese language, which is written the same everywhere, but is quite different in the local spoken forms. More like Serbo-Croatian, which is essentially one language (despite what the Serbs and Croats say), but is written in two different alphabets by the two determined to be separate peoples. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 08:55:21 -0500 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 12-18-96 Bear: Re; Zwerger WOZ - Yeah, I liked it, and so did Jane, IIRC, but Spot had no opinion! :-) Nathan: Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and we'll see you after your holiday break. Enjoy. All: I've found the "L'il Dorothy doll I was seeking. Thanks to you who responded. Much appreciated. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:04:08 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests, 12-18 & 19-96 12/18: Bear: Baum wrote YEW after WOZ, though DOT AND TOT, THE MASTER KEY, AMERICAN FAIRY TALES, and SANTA CLAUS all were published in between. (A NEW WONDERLAND/MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO was, I believe, published after WOZ but written earlier.) I'm sure Baum had some knowledge of French, but probably not of vulgar French. And I'm quite sure, based on all his other writing and the fact that his mother-in-law was a leading feminist of the day, that his line about women being "poor, weak creatures" was intended as irony. Most of his strongest characters in both Oz and other books are female. One may argue the subject, but Baum's idea that evil is often more interesting than good is certainly common. The classic example is PARADISE LOST, where Lucifer is certainly the most interesting character, even though he's the villain. And look at Shakespeare - his most memorable characters are almost all villains: the Macbeths, Iago, Edmund, Richard III (whatever one believes of the historical Richard, the Shakespearean character is an unmitigated villain), Shylock, and so on. Those are the roles the major actors usually take when they're playing the Bard, because they're the showy ones. I think the practice of the hero gathering up a group and taking it on the road probably dates back to the earliest stories we know about. I'm pretty sure I can remember such a sequence in the Epic of Gilgamesh, and it's more or less the story of both the Odyssey and the Aeneid. I'll probably continue to miss Jordan. I checked him out because several people have recommended him, but I hate trying to read even 500-page PBs, and his look like they're more in the 800-1000-page length. It's a pure matter of how to hold the thing open without destroying it or my hands one. And I'm generally fairly cool on lengthy series that take many books to resolve, although I don't mind series that continue characters and settings while having a reasonable resolution at the end of each book. (Like Oz, for example.) It takes a very good writer to get me hooked into something that's going to take 1500 pages or more to resolve. Sunny Koh: Of Baum's major fantasy works, your list is missing THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO and DOT AND TOT OF MERRYLAND. You might also want to add MOTHER GOOSE IN PROSE to that list. Then there are the more minor works: LITTLE WIZARD STORIES, TWINKLE AND CHUBBINS, POLICEMAN BLUEJAY, and ANIMAL FAIRY TALES come to mind, and I'm not sure that's a complete listing. Eric: Ozma used the Magic Belt to bring Uncle Henry and Aunt Em to Oz in front of a throne room full of courtiers, which doesn't sound like the way she'd behave if she were trying to restrict the knowledge of its powers. Admittedly, she doesn't say "Now I'm using the Magic Belt to bring some people to Oz," but she obviously used some kind of magic, and surely some of those present would have guessed. Nathan: I don't think Thompson poems about Christmas being celebrated in Oz should be considered canonical. And the reference in CAPTAIN SALT is not being made by Ozites, but by Nonesticans who have spent little or no time in Oz themselves as far as we know. It's evidence that Christmas is celebrated in parts of Nonestica, but not necessarily in Oz. Even the reference to "Ozma's Christmas stocking" could just be Sam extending his personal experience to Oz without knowing what he was talking about. Which is not to say that they -don't- celebrate Christmas in Oz. But even if they do, the evidence is that it's celebrated in the manner of the pagan Yule, and that Easter is celebrated in the manner of a pagan spring festival; there's no reference to anything specifically Christian that I can think of in any of the FF. Button-Bright's parents don't seem to have cared much about him, or he about them, which is probably why he cheerfully stayed in Oz on his second visit. Hope you enjoyed your vacation; we'll look forward to seeing your posts when you get back. I'm sure you'll have plenty of Digests to read. Robin: True, Route 1 from Big Sur down to Morro Bay is a gorgeous drive - but if you go that way, then it's more like an extra 8 hours of driving, of which about half are boring. Route 1 - especially at Winkie Con time in midsummer, when the RVs are out in force - is Slow. If you want to make LA in six hours, you need to take 101 or 5, which are respectively boring and Very Boring. Tyler: It's true, the only thing I can remember Nick Chopper doing in his capacity as quadrant ruler was forbidding Ojo to acquire the left wing of a yellow butterfly. Glinda did a number of things in her quadrant, though it's more difficult to say whether they were in her capacity as ruler of the Quadlings or as the most powerful sorceress in Oz. (E.g. Miss Cuttenclip's magic paper, Bunnybury, the enlargement of the Reddies of Baffleburg, sending the Scarecrow to Jinxland.) It could be that in Nonestica, as in Burroughs' Barsoom, there is a common spoken language that is written in several different scripts. (As, for instance, Serbian and Croatian are essentially the same language, but one is written in Cyrillic and the other in Roman characters.) >The Monarch of the Munchkins mentioned marching in this parade is an >interesting situation. He was part of a group of four, all mentioned as >being rulers of one of the four quadrants. However, Baum mentioned the >Emperor of the Winkies (when the Tin Woodman was marching elsewhere) and >the King of the Quadlings (when Glinda was marching elsewhere). The >Sovereign of the Gilikins may have been Tattypoo. The Good Witch of the North is also mentioned as marching elsewhere in the parade, so she is not the Sovereign of the Gillikins who marched near the head. Unless you think that Tattypoo wasn't the Good Witch of the North at the time of ROAD, which seems unlikely. Gordon: If the daily surveillance and secret sign were discontinued in ROAD, they were clearly reinstated before EMERALD CITY, since that's how Dorothy got to Oz in that book. I think it more likely that Dot enjoys adventures, and nothing in ROAD was that scary except for the Scoodlers - and probably that brief period didn't include Ozma's nominal surveillance time. So she didn't bother. Besides, she was with companions, and it's clear in DOTWIZ that she's not sure Ozma would agree to bring her companions to Oz as well. So she might have been sticking with them out of loyalty. Dave: I don't think "Mrs. Claus in Oz" would necessarily be historically inaccurate; you'd just have to set the date of the marriage sometime after 1901. We know Santa was single at that time, but nothing of his subsequent personal life. (We know he came to Oz in the year of ROAD - sometime between 1903 and 1907 - but he might have left a wife behind to mind the store, so to speak. Other than that, we know nothing for sure about his activities, though in some of the non-FF books he appears to remain unmarried.) 12/19: Tyler: In OZMA, it states that Dorothy is looking westward out of her window when she sees the desert. This would be consistent with Ev being on the Munchkin side of Oz. But this is inconsistent with all the other books. I agree with you that it's better to assume that Baum made a mistake in OZMA than that he and all the other writers made consistent mistakes in all the other books. Aaron: Thanks; I was sure you'd know the answer to my question, so I didn't bother trying to research it myself. (Hadn't thought about it before, but I imagine that "Obed" is cognate to the common Arabic name-prefix "'Abd-". Never mind me; I free-associate a lot.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:06:51 -0500 (EST) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-18-96 DIXNAM: > > Second, when a mini-tornado put 4 feet of pine tree thru my living roon wall > last April, the impact knocked one of my Knowles "musical" Oz plates, #4, "If > I Only Had A Brain", off a shelf, and shattered it. > What? A mini-twister, and you didn't even get sent on a mini-trip to Oz (or at least Ev)? What a ripoff! To all who pointed out the problem with Rich Morrisey's explanation of why the wait for Dorothy to signal Ozma in DOTWIZ, might this not have been another chronicler's error on Baum's part? (Or something not caught by his editors). Perhaps Dorothy said that Ozma checks in on her "every SATURday at 4:00"? David H.: > Obed itself is a name that needn't be a contraction of Obadiah. In the Bible, > Obed is the son of Ruth and the grandfather of King David. (Many if not most > of the Biblical names ending in "iah" in their Anglicized version are a > reference to the name of God; I don't know, though Aaron and others probably > do, but it strikes me as quite possible that "Obadiah" is an extension of > "Obed", meaning something like "Obed dedicated to Yahweh". Not that this is > likely to have anything to do with Oz...) > Obed means servant. Obadiah is "servant of God". This is the same as the Moslem name Abdullah, by the way. Me: > Did anybody else see "Super Friends" on Cartoon Network last > night? They had an episode where Mr. Mxyzptlk (or, as the TV show > insists on calling him, Mr. Mxlplk) transforms Superman, Wonder Woman, > and Aquaman into the Tin Woodman, Cowardly Lion, and Scarecrow, [...] Which reminds me. If Mr. Mxyzptlk said "pyrzqxgl" while standing in a cwm in Plzn, playing a crwth, would the resultant inrush of vowels filling the vacuum drown him? --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:22:13 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Tyler: From her room in the North Tower, Dorothy can see the ocean to the East, the valley that leads to the realm of the Nome King to the North, and the Deadly Desert to the West. As far as Jinjur is concerned, her place must be in Munchkin territory, since Ozma and the other travelers pass by Jinjur's house after leaving the Munchkin King and setting out on "a road of yellow brick that led straight to the jewel-studded gates [of the Emerald City]"--i.e., no side trips into other kingdoms. Ruth: Thank you for offering to photocopy articles from early issues of the Bugle. I may give Interlibrary Loan a try anyway, just to see if some Oz-loving university librarian --possibly in Virginia?--kept up a subscription to this journal. It's really a shame that a publication like the Bugle, with so much serious, informative, high-quality research, is not readily available. Another casualty of the Tyranny of the Canon in academic publishing. I'm kicking myself for not having had the sense to subscribe to the Bugle back in the sixties. Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:13:07 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Ozziness Bear: De gustibus non est disputantum. Although Zwerger illustration are far from traditional I personally found them charming in their own way. They provided new eyes to see THE WIZARD without preconceptions. They certainly do not provide the definitive pictoral Oz, if such a thing could exist, but they are new eyes. On Trot's and Button Bright's Parents: W. Randy Hoffman, in an uncompleted book (at least I think it is still uncompleted--I have not heard from him for a while--entitled THE FAIRYLANDS OF THE SEA attempted to reveal the fates of the missing relatives of people who had moved to Oz. I believe he abandoned the book because he realized it was so lonh, complex and unpublishable (he included Milo from THE PHANTOM TOLLBOOTH). It is long since I read the incomplete MS. The work was as ambitious as LURLINE'S MACHINE. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:24:31 -0800 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Ozzy Superheroes-- That ep of Superfriends reminds me of a comic book I'd "written" when I was young. If any of you know Marvel Comics, they have a minor supervillan named the Wizard, also ones called Scarecrow, Leo, and --well, I had to use Titanium Man, no Tin Man-- plus the Red Ghost's super Apes with anti-grav flying disks attatched to them. . . Don't worry, although they were assembled as a villain team I don't think these bunch of characters would actually do any harm. . . Also-- Hooray! Now that Christmas break is here, I'll be able to work on the many projects ahead of me-- two of which are Ozzy. One is the centennial novel contest and the other is a live action Oz role play (a la How to Host a Mystery type thing) that I want to pitch to the centennial committee to maybe have as an event for the BIG convention. Anyone interested here in something like this? Wish me luck, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:06:09 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Aaron: The state of the green area before the Wizard's arrival is a little fuzzy. I doubt they called it "The Emerald City", although SOME word for green may have been used. With no evidence, I am guessing that prior to the Wizard, the green area was comprised of several small villages. It is possible that not all of these were friendly with each other... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:35:00 -0800 From: Kevin Holmes Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-19-96 Tyler: I looked in _Ozma_ and here's what Dorothy sees when she looks out the window from her prison: "To the east she saw the forest, with the sands beyond it and the ocean beyond that . . . she looked to the north and saw a deep but narrow valley lying between twoi rocky mountains . . . westward the fertile Land of Ev suddenly ended a little way from the palace and the girl could see miles and miles of sandy desert . . ." Kevin ====================================================================== Date: 20 December, 1996 00:58:34 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things CD-ROM: I have to say that the idea of an Ozzy Centennial CD-ROM has captured my imagination! I can see it as sort of an electronic "Oz Scrapbook", only going much further, with Synopses of all the FF (and other books, including major Buckethead and Books of Wonder titles), a "Who's Who" of Oz, a section of extended info. on the making of the MGM movie, an Ozzy Interactive Fiction game (I'm starting to program the game engine for this), pictures, stories, and other contributions from Oz fans, Ozzy animations (I've got preliminary ideas for "Baumgea: The Movie", a NASA-esque "fly-thru" of Oz and Nonestica), and other goodies...Anyone care to contribute? REFERENCE.COM: I got an E-mail from this server saying that they archive info. on mailing lists and newsgroups...Does anyone know if they are legit before I send them info on the Ozzy Digest? E-TEXTS: I have ascertained that it is all right for me to distribute my E-Texts, so here's what I have: All the Baum 14, _Royal Book_, Captain Salt_, _Silver Princess_, _Wishing Horse_, _Handy Mandy_, _Ozoplaning_, _Magical Mimics_, and _Shaggy Man_. My only caveat is that I have not had a chance to proofread them for errors and so there may be a VERY few little typos... :) OF BELTS AND STOCKINGS: My assumption is that everyone who was present to see Ozma use the Magic Belt to bring Em and Henry to Oz had a security clearance... :) I can't see why so many seem to doubt that Ozites celebrate Christmas... It's clear from _Merry-Go-Round_ that they celebrate Easter! I suppose it IS likely though that the celebrations of Christain Holidays is non-Religious...Oz seems to be a mainly secular country... THE "SOVERGEIN OF GILLIKINS": ****** TINY LITTLE SPOILER FOR _LOCASTA AND THE THREE ADEPTS OF OZ_ ****** In _Locasta_, I make it clear that Tattypoo became GWN between _Wizard_ and _Land_; Locasta was already long banished by the time of _Road_... (Indeed, she doesn't even know that Ozma has taken the throne until 1993, when she reads it in Dan's copy of _Land_!!!) ****** END SPOILER ***** ON A CLEAR DAY YOU CAN SEE WINKIE COUNTRY (OR IS IT MUNCHKINLAND???): Is it possible that the statement that Dorothy in _Ozma_ saw the Desert in the WEST is a mistake on the part of the WOGGLEBUG??? (Since he clearly perceives Oz and Baumgea backwards...) Of course, if you accept that the IWOC map is to scale and that the Ozzy Digest Estimate of Oz's size at 90 by 70 miles is roughly accurate, then the distance from the Ocean to the Desert is way over 8 miles, and it should have been impossible for Dot to see the Desert AND the Nonestic! OZ REFERENCE OF THE DAY: Today on C-SPAN I saw a press conference with the new Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles ( not to be confused with either of the Britons *Peter* Bowles or [Claude] Erskine-*Brown*... :) )...During the conference, the sliding doors in the back opened for a second, revealing Bill Clinton's smiling face, and were hastily slammed shut again. Audible comment from a reporter: "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 21 - 22, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:36:35 -0500 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 12-20-96 Shaggy Man: The mini-tornado not only didn't take me to Oz, It didn't even get me to Atlantic City, and I live only a few miles from there! :-) :-) Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:12:45 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Hulan & Robin Olderman: I should have said "possible storm" rather than "storm" in "Scarecrow." It seemed to me that the whirlwind could have been a storm starting up. Nathan DeHoff: Button Bright's parents -- there was a "Bugle" article several years on "The Enigma of Button Bright" (by Dan Mannix, I think), and the theory offered there was that he was a poor little rich boy, his comings and goings in "Sky Island" apparently not noticed at all by his parents, and his loss of no concern to them. It seems a bit extreme -- Button Bright's own report in "Road" suggests that his father likes him (if you take "bright as a button" at face value, and don't read it as the Shaggy Man did, as a sarcasm) -- but I don't know of any other possibilities, short of killing them off, too, or leaving them alive and mourning the kid's disappearance and apparent death. Maybe a complicated alternative for both them and the Griffiths is that Ozma sent them a message to say that the kids were okay but not able to get home, and that by thtime she could have sent them home she brought their parents to live in Oz instead (company for Uncle Henry & Aunt Em, maybe?), and we just don't happen to have heard about it. Melody Grandy: I finished reading "The 7 Blue Mountains of Oz" (vol. 1) and enjoyed it very much -- am looking forward to vol. 2. Zim and Dinny are interesting characters, and the variety of Zim's personas and abilities is intriguing. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:08:51 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: score to Wizard of oz Michele, I'm not aware of an orchestra score that is commercially available, = however, I would recommend checking with Samuel French in NYC, as they = are traditionally the largest licenser of scripts and scores for = performance. I'm also forwarding your note to the Ozzy Digest, in case = some of the subscribers might have further information. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot ---------- From: gdyson Sent: Thursday, December 19, 1996 3:30 AM Subject: score to Wizard of oz I'm looking for an orchestra score of The Wizard of Oz, arranged by Bob Cerulli or somebody else that a school orchestra could play. I already have two selections (Over the Rainbow and We're off to see the Wizard) arranged by Bob Cerulli. Would anybody who is aware of any information on these or any other arrangements. I'm most especially interested in finding the scores to the following songs: - Ding Dong the Witch is dead - If I only had a brain.... - If I were the King of the forest Yours sincerely Michele Dyson ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:19:00 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest David: >I think it more likely that Dot enjoys adventures, and >nothing in ROAD was that scary except for the Scoodlers - and probably that >brief period didn't include Ozma's nominal surveillance time. So she didn't >bother. Besides, she was with companions, and it's clear in DOTWIZ that she's >not sure Ozma would agree to bring her companions to Oz as well. So she might >have been sticking with them out of loyalty. I took another look at this passage. Dorothy initially expresses some uncertainty about transporting the nine piglets to Oz, but she clearly doesn't expect any problems with regard to the rest of the travelers: "I can easily save you all, once I am myself in the Land of Oz . . . by using the Magic Belt. All I need do is wish you with me, and there you'll be--safe in the royal palace!" As far as I can see, Ozma at this point is not as concerned (as she later will be, in Tik-Tok) with the issue of visitors pouring into Oz and increasing the population, and of course it isn't an issue in this case anyway, since Dorothy, Jeb, and Jim all want to return to the outside world, and the Wizard has every right to stay on in Oz. As for the question of Ozma's surveillance schedule: in EC, too, the arrangement is that she will check in on Dorothy every day rather than just once a week on Saturdays. So there really doesn't seem to be any convenient way to account for Dorothy's baffling memory lapses in both _Dorothy and the Wizard_ and _Road_. I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have been able to locate Ulan Bator when I was nineteen, either. And in those days (the sixties) high schools and even universities had geography courses as part of the basic curriculum. (I took the last geography course at Stanford before they dismantled the department. We had to lay tracing paper over maps and mark major rivers, cities, and national boundaries in preparation for identification tests--not a word about cultural diversity, ethnic unrest, empowerment programs for struggling Third World nations; what an innocent time that was.) And these days--well, I read an article a couple of years ago that cited statistics about geographical ignorance among high school students. Seems that half of Texas teenagers don't know what country borders the US on the north, and fully a third don't know what country is to the south. (And on behalf of Robin Olderman and Mike Denio as well as myself: please spare us your wisecracks about Texas!) Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:43:06 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-20-96 Shaggy Man: It's conceivable that Dorothy really said "every Saturday" in DOTWIZ and there was a transcription error, but "every day" is repeated in EMERALD CITY. Of course, maybe there was a change between DW and EC, but I find it more likely that Dorothy just didn't think about it in DOTWIZ until all hopes of getting home by natural means were gone. This seems to me to be more parsimonious than assuming an error in transcription; this isn't a case (like the question of whether Ev is opposite the Munchkin or Winkie countries) where there's a direct contradiction between two books, but just a case of Dorothy being uncharacteristically dense. And I see you confirm my speculation that the Hebrew "Obed" is cognate to the Arabic "Abd". Danny: So you're working on an entry for the Centennial Contest, too? I'm making good progress on mine, now. I did realize a while back that I shouldn't title it PROFESSOR WOGGLE-BUG OF OZ when I submit it, since at least two of the preliminary judges are on the Digest where I've talked about writing a book with that title for the contest. Anonymity would be lost. So it will be submitted under a different title (assuming I finish it in time), although if by any chance it won, I'd ask that the resulting book be titled PROFESSOR WOGGLE-BUG. I wonder how many entries there are now, and how many there will be by the deadline. Dave: I'm neither an artist nor a programmer, but if you're looking for Oz stories or writeups of speculative research or that kind of thing, then I'd be interested in contributing to your Centennial CD-ROM. (After, however, getting my entry in the Centennial Contest finished.) ROYAL BOOK isn't PD for a couple more weeks; I suggest you hold off distributing that E-text until then. (Not that you'd likely be caught, but why not play it safe?) I don't particularly -doubt- that they celebrate Christmas in Oz; I was looking for a FF verification that they do, and I haven't heard one yet. Even Easter doesn't sound as if it's routinely celebrated in Oz; the evidence in MGR is that they know the date of Easter, but that Dorothy's suggestion that they use it as an excuse for a party is unusual. And that party seems to be the only celebration in Oz that Easter. As Aaron was remarking a while back, the distance from the Nonestic to Evna on the IWOC map seems to be excessive. Aside from the statement that Dorothy can see the ocean and the desert from the tower of the palace (and there's no evidence that the North Tower of the palace of Ev is comparable in height to the Sears Tower - in fact, we know it's not, because Dorothy can talk back and forth to the Scarecrow and others who are on the ground), we know that Dorothy only walked a little while - probably less than an hour - from the beach to the little hill where she met Tik-Tok, and that they then walked from there, again probably less than an hour, before they saw the palace about a mile away. It seems highly unlikely that the beach where she washed up is more than 5-6 miles from the palace. I'm not quite sure why Haff put so much space between the beach and Evna; I don't know of anything in any of the other books that would require it. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:14:18 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-20-96 > > ====================================================================== > Date: 20 December, 1996 00:58:34 > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > > E-TEXTS: > I have ascertained that it is all right for me to distribute my E-Texts, so > here's what I have: All the Baum 14, _Royal Book_, Captain Salt_, > _Silver Princess_, _Wishing Horse_, _Handy Mandy_, _Ozoplaning_, > _Magical Mimics_, and _Shaggy Man_. My only caveat is that I have not > had a chance to proofread them for errors and so there may be a VERY few > little typos... :) > dave i would love these might i make a suggestion perhaps setting up a archive for stuff like this for folks form the list on another list we use a majordomo and can retreive files with a simple email could we set soemthing like that up here then we could save all these e txts of the books and articles and stuff folks post for newer list memebers or say if folks write oz stories they could be put in the archive for retrivel hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:50:32 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: (fwd) Baum's _Sky Island_ (was Re: RAH as a Gun Right Supporter-NOT!!!) (fwd) found this thread going in the newsgroups listed below posted it cause i thought you folks might wanna join in From: jcaveney@ix.netcom.com(Jerry Caveney ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.misc Subject: Baum's _Sky Island_ (was Re: RAH as a Gun Right Supporter-NOT!!!) Date: 19 Dec 1996 09:41:12 GMT Organization: Netcom All this talk about Baum reminds me of one of my favorite childhood books, Baum's _Sky Island_. Has anyone else read it? Cerainly not one of his best known, but I still have an original copy, with all the beautiful artwork. it was my uncle's, and I first read it in the early 50's (my uncle was born in '07). Jerry From: merritt@u.washington.edu (Ethan A Merritt) Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.misc Subject: Re: Baum's _Sky Island_ (was Re: RAH as a Gun Right Supporter-NOT!!!) Date: 19 Dec 1996 19:28:25 GMT Organization: University of Washington, Seattle In article <59b2jo$d9b@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, Jerry Caveney wrote: >All this talk about Baum reminds me of one of my favorite childhood >books, Baum's _Sky Island_. Has anyone else read it? Cerainly not one >of his best known, but I still have an original copy, with all the >beautiful artwork. it was my uncle's, and I first read it in the early >50's (my uncle was born in '07). Is that what you guys have been talking about? Then why on earth target it for my killfile by giving it a thread title ".*Gun Right.*"? Anyway, yes I've read it. It's one of my favorites, though I somehow missed it when reading the Oz books as a child. Trot has considerably more gumption than Dorothy usually manages to muster, both in _Sky Island_ and in the canonical Baum Oz books. Ethan A Merritt merritt@u.washington.edu From: dgempey@cats.ucsc.edu (David Empey) Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.misc Subject: Re: Baum's _Sky Island_ (was Re: RAH as a Gun Right Supporter-NOT!!!) Date: 20 Dec 1996 03:48:41 GMT In article <59b2jo$d9b@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, jcaveney@ix.netcom.com says... > >All this talk about Baum reminds me of one of my favorite childhood >books, Baum's _Sky Island_. Has anyone else read it? Cerainly not one >of his best known, but I still have an original copy, with all the >beautiful artwork. it was my uncle's, and I first read it in the early >50's (my uncle was born in '07). > Yeah, that was a good one. One of his better non-Oz books. The companion book, _The Sea Fairies_ is not as interesting, however. I envy you your copy--all I have is a reprint from some company called "Books of Wonder", who seem to be publishing a lot of Baum lately. (I see that "Books of Wonder" is a trademark of Ozma, Inc, whoever that is.) It's got the Neill illustrations, too, which is nice, but I'm afraid the book may fall apart after a while--it's only perfect-bound. Dover did it better. Speaking of Neill, his children don't look very child-like to me; more like adults drawn at a smaller size. Cordially, Dave Empey ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:55:13 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-20-96 In re: Victor Columbia Edison.... As far as I know, _all_ phonographs at that date were wind-up. Heck, as late as the 1950's, the A.V. department of the East Vassalboro, ME, elementary school possessed only a wind-up phonograph. In re: Shakespeare's characters He created a good many great villains, but let us not forget Lear, Othello, Hamlet, Brutus, Benedick, Richard II, Titus Andronicus (his play makes for grim reading, but on stage it's stunning) and other great acting roles who are certainly not villains. And apart from Goneril and Regan, Lady Mac and Margaret of Anjou, none of his great women's roles are villains. Not that it isn't an old saw that "The Devil has all the best lines." in re: vowels Of course in "cwm" and "crwth", "w" is a vowel. They used to teach "'a', 'e', 'i', 'o', 'u', and sometimes 'w' and 'y'", but sometime in the first half of this century, "'w' and" was dropped. (Actually, "f", "u", "v", "w" and "y" are all derived from West-Semitic "waw".) In re: View from a height The distance Dorothy could see from Langwidere's tower would depend on how high the tower was. One can see much further than four miles in either direction from the Empire State Building. On the other hand, there is the issue of the size of the Oz planet. (Let us not, by the way, forget the evidence from "Queer Visitors" on the question of Oz vs. Earth as planets.) If the Oz planet is very small, the tower would have to be most extraordinarily high. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 21:59:29 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz David and Bear: From what little I know of Baum's life, he was in fact sympathetic to the issue of sexual equality. As David remarked, most of the movers and skakers in the Baum 14 are women, even the villains. Interesting Evil: There is a quote that I don't remember to well about evil being more interesting than good. It goes something like: "What is it about evil, that as despicable as it is, it draws us all to it like moths to a flame?" Jordan's series is indeed a blockbuster. It is seven novels so far, all about 600-800 pages, and I am estimating there may be at least five more on the way. The only religious symbols that I can remember from the FF are the church in the Dainty China Country, the church bells heard by Handy Mandy as she flew over, and the fact that a servant of the Wizard Wutz disguised himself as a monk to get into EC unobserved. This would not have worked if monks were a rarity in Oz. Of course, monks (under many different names) are found in many religions, especially eastern ones. Depsite this, there does not seem to be a strong religious presence in Oz, whether Christian or otherwise. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 22:30:50 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-20-96 Memory: Hmmm. I usually forget what I remember. Aaron: Is "Evil Author of Oz" a short story? Zwerger Oz: I'll wait until it comes out on remainder,if I buy it at all. I don't mind odd illos, but these just don't do anything much for me. Oz CD: If you're really going to try to do something with an Ozzy CD, Dave, I hope you confer with Ken Cope. You probably know already that he's a terrific illustrator, but he's also very deeply into the computer stuff...just as you are, I know. Ken, stop lurking and add your $.02, please. And then there are always the copyright laws.... I'll start LOTR tomorrow after work...if I can make myself put down the second Terry Goodkind book. Old _Bugles_: Some are available in the "Best of the Bugle" reprints. They're on IWOC's order sheets. And I think I'll have a complete 1960s--'80s run available in the Centennial Auction. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:10:59 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest *please post* *********WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR "EMERALD CITY" AHEAD************ BEFORE THE ACTION The Nome King plots to conquer Oz Henry & Em learn that the farm is to be foreclosed in 30 days - they wait several days before telling Dorothy Time passes Day 1 - Dorothy leaves Kansas permanently for Oz "About the time Dorothy went to Ozma" the Nome King makes Guph general Day 2 - Dorothy assumes rank as Princess of Oz - Henry & Em brought to Oz - they meet the Cowardly Lion Days 3-8 - Time passes - perhaps a week, more or less During this period the Nome King extends his tunnel and Guph visits the Whimsies and the Growleywogs Day 9 - Dorothy's party begins a tour of Oz - they visit the Athletic College & Cuttenclips Guph visits First & Foremost Phanfasm Day 10 - Party visits Fuddlecumjig - night under trees Guph returns to Nome King to report Day 11 - Dorothy visits Utensia, Bunbury, Bunnybury Ozma sees Nome King's tunnel in Magic Picture Day 12 - Rigmaroles & Flutterbudgets - they arrive at the Tin Woodman's Castle Day 13 - Tin Woodman tells Dorothy & party of Nome menace - they visit the Scarecrow & Jack Pumpkinhead - they arrive at the Emerald City at dusk - the Scarecrow's plan The Nome King's allies begin their march to the EC Day 14 - The Nomes & their allies arrive at daybreak - invaders repelled - Ozma "closes" tunne Day 15 - Glinda seals Oz off by enchantment Some time later, Baum receives a note from Dorothy ****************END SPOILERS***************** Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 06:13:52 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: score to Wizard of oz (fwd) Can anybody help Michele here in her quest? I've already suggested she write to the publisher of the arrangements she has. Since she's not a "Digest" subscriber, you'll need to e-mail her directly. --Eric Gjovaag ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:25:19 +0100 From: gdyson Subject: score to Wizard of oz I'm looking for an orchestra score of The Wizard of Oz, arranged by Bob Cerulli or somebody else that a school orchestra could play. I already have two selections (Over the Rainbow and We're off to see the Wizard) arranged by Bob Cerulli. Would anybody who is aware of any information on these or any other arrangements. I=92m most especially interested in finding the scores to the following songs: - Ding Dong the Witch is dead - If I only had a brain.... - If I were the King of the forest Yours sincerely Michele Dyson ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 22:01:36 +1100 From: Sunny Koh Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-20-96 References: <01ID7XGMNG3M8Y6DNU@delphi.com> > E-TEXTS: > I have ascertained that it is all right for me to distribute my E-Texts, so > here's what I have: All the Baum 14, _Royal Book_, Captain Salt_, > _Silver Princess_, _Wishing Horse_, _Handy Mandy_, _Ozoplaning_, > _Magical Mimics_, and _Shaggy Man_. My only caveat is that I have not > had a chance to proofread them for errors and so there may be a VERY few > little typos... :) That wouldn't be a problem as Dennis site also have non-proread copies. Why not ZIP them and file attached them to me and I'll place all of them on a web site. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Sunny Koh Business SunnyKoh@t130.aone.net.au Personal sunnykoh@tmba.design.net.au sunnykoh@ozemail.com.au Mailing List d9530021@helios.usq.edu.au ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 21:09:28 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: Merry ChristmOZ & Happy Holidays Ozzy Digesters! Hello Ozzy Digesters: I know the following "keyboard illustration" doesn't have anything to do with Oz but, I wanted to wish everyone Happy Holidays! and share this with you. Thanks to everyone for a great year of Ozzy posts. And, especially to Dave, for his hard work in bringing the Ozzy Digest to all of us. May you all have peace and happiness this holiday season and the whole year through! Jim Whitcomb. ======================================================================== _______) _______) ,__) ____, ____, (--||_, _ (--| _ | _ (--| \ _ , (--/ \ ,_, _|| |(/_ _|(_|_)(/_|\/(/_ _|_/(_|\|/_)_ \_/_|_ ( |__, ( ( ,__| ,__| ____,,__) ,__) (--/ `|_,,_' ,-|-,_,_, _ , / | || |/_)| | | |(_|/_) \__, |__, |__, On the Twelfth Day of Christmas, my true love gave to me: Twelve Drummers Drumming .-} .-} .-} |_| |_| |_| (_) (_) __ (_) .---. | \ .--. | \.' '. | \/ \ |\_|--o ) |\_|--o ; |\_|--o | |:| '--' |:|'.__.' |:|\ / |:| |:| |:| `---` |:|_ |:|_ |:|_ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. |M| |E| |R| |R| |Y| |X| |M| |A| |S| (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Eleven Pipers Piping _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) (") (") (") (") (") (") (") (") (") (") (") /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ten Lords A-Leaping w w w 0__ \0__ \0__ w /|_ w /_ /_ __0/ '\/ / \0_ '\/ / w '\/ / /_ ` /_ ` __0/ ` `\/ \, _\ \, /_ w ` `\/ \, \0__ w w /_ 0__ w \0__ _\ \, /|_ __0/ |_ ` `\/ \, /_ _\ \, `\/ /, ` Nine Ladies Dancing |~ () () 0` |~ () _/)(\_ () _/)(\_ 0` _/)(\_ /^^\ () _/)(\_ /""\ /~~\ /____\ _/)(\_ /``\ /____\ /____\ /""\ /____\ () () /____\ _/)(\_ () |~ _/)(\_ () /^^\ _/)(\_ 0` |~ /``\ _/)(\_ /____\ /~~\ 0` /____\ /~~\ /____\ /____\ Eight Maids A-Milking __.----. __.----. __.----. __.----.___ (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-' ;--` `(uu)' _ `(dd)' _ `(gg)' _ `(vv)' _ | ) ( (|) ) ( (|) ) ( (|) ) ( (|) | (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8 ,/ `--'\_ (__).`--'\_ (__).'`--'\_ (__).'`--'\_ _(__)| `|||~~/\|| `|||~~/\|| `|||~~/\|| `||~|| /\|| ^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^ __.----. __.----. __.----. __..----.___ (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-' ;--` `(99)' _ `(66)' _ `(aa)' _ `(ee)' _ | ) ( (|) ) ( (|) ) ( (|) ) ( (|) | (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8, `--'\_ (__).'`--'\_ (__).`--'\_ (__).`--'\_ _(__)| `|||~~/\|| `|||~~/\|| `|||~~/\|| `||~|| /\|| ^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^ Seven swans A-Swimming ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ /,_ \ /,_ \ /,_ \ /,_ \ /,_ \ /,_ \ /,_ \ _, |/ )/ |/ )/ |/ )/ |/ )/ |/ )/ |/ )/ |/ )/ / | // _/ |// _/ // _/ // _/ // _/ // _/ // _/ | / (_/ / (_/ / (_/ / (_/ / (_/ / (_/ / (_/ _) / ` / ` / ` / ` / ` / ` / ` _/) \ ~=- \ ~=- \ ~=- \ ~=- \ ~=- \ ~=- \ ~=- / ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Six Geese A-Laying __ __ __ __ __ __ >(' ) >(' ) >(' ) >(' ) >(' ) >(' ) )/ , )/ , )/ , )/ , )/ , )/ , /(____/\ /(____/\ /(____/\ /(____/\ /(____/\ /(____/\ / ) / ) / ) / ) / ) / ) \ ` =~~/ \ ` =~~/ \ ` =~~/ \ ` =~~/ \ ` =~~/ \ ` =~~/ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ ~~' (__) ~~' (__) ~~' (__) ~~' (__) ~~' (__) ~~' (__) Five Golden Rings .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. ((_)) ((_)) ((_)) ((_)) ((_)) '-' '-' '-' '-' '-' Four Calling Birds ___ ___ ___ ___ ('v') ('v') ('v') ('v') (( )) (( )) (( )) (( )) -/-"---"---/-"---"---/-"---"---/-"---"-- Three French Hens (\ }\ (\ }\ (\ }\ ( \_('> ( \_('> ( \_('> (__(=_) (__(=_) (__(=_) -"= -"= -"= Two Turtle Doves _ _ <')_,/ <') ,/ (_==/ (_==/ ='- ='- And a Partridge in a Pear Tree _ ('> /))@@@@@ /@"@@@@@()@ @@()@@()@@@@ @@@O@@@@()@@@ @()@@\@@@()@@ @()@||@@@@@ @@||@@@ || ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ jgs'96 .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. __,_,_,___) _______ (--| | | (--/ ),_) ,_) | | | _ ,_,_ | |_ ,_' , _|_,_,_, _ , __| | | (/_| | (_| | | || |/_)_| | | |(_|/_)___, ( |___, ,__| \____) |__, |__, | _...._ \ _ / .::o:::::. (\o/) .:::''''o:. --- / \ --- :o:_ ::: >*< `:}_>()<{:' >0<@< @ `'//\\` @ >>>@<<* @ # // \\ # @ >@>*<0<<< __#_#____/'____'\____#_#__ >*>>@<<<@<< [__________________________] >@>>0<<<*<<@< |=_- .-/\ /\ /\ /\--. =_-| >*>>0<<@<<<@<<< |-_= | \ \\ \\ \\ \ |-_=-| >@>>*<<@<>*<<0<*< |_=-=| / // // // / |_=-_| \*/ >0>>*<<@<>0><<*<@<< |=_- |`-'`-'`-'`-' |=_=-| ___\\U//___ >*>>@><0<<*>>@><*<0<< | =_-| o o |_==_| |\\ | | \\| >@>>0<*<<0>>@<<0<<<*<@< |=_- | ! ( ! |=-_=| | \\| | _(UU)_ >((*))_>0><*<0><@<<<0<*< _|-,-=| ! ). ! |-_-=|_ |\ \| || / //||.*.*.*.|>>@<<*<<@>><0<<@>>>>>| ( ~~~ )/ (((((((()))))))) ~~~~~~~~ '""""`------' `w---w` `------------' and to those who don't celebrate the Christmas season: ____ .-" +' "-. __, ,___, /..'.'A_'*`.\ (--|__| _,,_ ,_ |:.*'/\-\. ':| _| |(_||_)|_)\/ |:.'.||"|.'*:| ( | | _/ \:~^~^~^~^:/ __, ,___, /`-....-'\ (--|__| _ |' _| _, , jgs / \ _| |(_)||(_|(_|\//_) `-.,____,.-' ( _/ ------------------------------ ====================================================================== Date: 21 December, 1996 14:48:50 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things SAD NEWS: I know this is not really Ozzy, but it effects me personally so I feel I must share it with the Digest...Astronomer and Science popularizer Carl Sagan is in Oz now, his departure from our universe brought on by bone marrow cancer and pneumonia. I am so saddened not only because this was so sudden and he was not very old (62), but also Sagan was someone whom I idolized as a young boy, and continued to regard with esteem as an adult. If nothing else, I like to think there are a few more science-lovers in the world because of him. To make an obligatory Oz tie-in, my understanding is that he was an Oz fan, and perhaps failing health in the past year explains why there was no response from him to my "Oz on Charon" letter (I had written to him in the past, and at least received an acknowledgement from his secretary)...Anyway, I hope Ozma gives him the honorable position he deserves in the Emerald City! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 23, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 00:04:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Evil Author of Oz Robin, "The Evil Author of Oz" is a story I wrote and posted to the Digest in celebration of pUwrIym. It is a self-parody, poking fun at myself and _The Woozy of Oz_, largely drawing upon information about _Woozy_ I've leaked to the Digest (and interestingly enough, stuff that's tended to get cut out of _Woozy_, such as the ten zillion villians, which in the latest revision is being reduced from an already radically reduced twelve to four). Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 00:11:20 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest: POLL? Who are we?: I'm curious about the demographics of the DIGEST subscribers. Where are we living? How old are we? What is our educational level? How many Oz books have we read? ...stuff like that. What do y'all want to know about us, or am I the only one who's curious? Wanna do a poll? If so, what questions should be asked? BTW, we've already "been there/done that" trying to find out the most popular Oz book. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 00:22:43 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-21-96 Gordon wrote: >>...geographical ignorance among high school students. Seems that half of Texas teenagers don't know what country borders the US on the north, and fully a third don't know what country is to the south. (And on behalf of Robin Olderman and Mike Denio as well as myself: please spare us your wisecracks about Texas!) It's hard to believe that 1/3 of them don't know what country is to the south, considering the ethnic makeup of this highly populated southern section of Texas. My students cross the border frequently. On the other hand, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Very few of them know the words to "The Star Spangled Banner." Actually, I'll bet some of us will have trouble getting all the words right--in spite of all those ball games! Oz CD: I'd like to work on the text, too, Dave, if you're really gonna do it. I can help write it, if you'd like, and can certainly edit and proof the thing. This intrigues me. Actually, it may intrigue IWOC. Let Pete Hanff know what you're up to, if you decide to go for it. It may be a possible project for Special Publications. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 19:41:26 -0500 From: Scott Piehler Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission (oops-messed up on the first attempt) Greetings! I have the following OZ related comics for sale. Email rosco29@mindspring.com if interested. Unless noted, all books are Near-Mint to Mint, bagged & boarded. Prices do not include postage OZ SQUAD 1-3, 7-10 OZ SQUAD SPECIAL #1 LITTLE OZ SQUAD #1 (the above books are $1 each, or $8 for all 9) OZ:A GATHERING OF HEROES (this collects issues #6-10 of the Caliber OZ series. It is a bit bent on one corner, and has some cracking in the binding, due to an error at the printers) $5 (book retails for $14.95) OZ #10 (Caliber Press) $2 If someone wants them all, I'll go $12 plus postage. thanks! Scott Scott Piehler Atlanta, GA USA http://www.mindspring.com/~rosco29/home.htm ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 18:53:36 -0500 From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Non-Oz Baum books I've compiled the following list of children's books that Baum wrote other than his full-length Oz books. Am I missing anything? - Mother Goose in Prose (1897), - Father Goose: His Book (1899), - A New Wonderland (1900), - Dot and Tot of Merryland (1901), - The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus (1901), - The Master Key: An Electrical Fairy Tale (1901), - American Fairy Tales (1901), - The Surprising Adventures of the Magical Monarch of Mo and his People (1903), - The Enchanted Island of Yew (1903), - The Woggle-Bug Book (1905), - Queen Zixi of Ix (1905), - John Dough and the Cherub (1906), - The Sea Fairies (1911), - Sky Island (1912), - The Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger (1913), - Little Dorothy and Toto (1913), - TikTok and the Nome King (1913), - The Scarecrow and the Tin Wood Man (1913), - Ozma and the Little Wizard (1913), - Jack Pumpkinhead and the Sawhorse (1913), - Little Wizard Stories of Oz (1914). ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 19:37:52 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-21-96 Ruth: It's true that in ROAD, Button-Bright seems to have had some affection for his family and vice versa. But in SKY ISLAND he doesn't seem concerned with being away from them, and he apparently had gone off adventuring with his Magic Umbrella again when we meet him in SCARECROW without any worries about what his parents would think. And when he tells Trot he's lost his magic umbrella and can't get home, he continues, "I don't care much. This is a pretty good country." (Mo, at that point, rather than Oz.) And families vary, of course, but although I had mild affection for my father and a great deal for my mother and brother and some of my uncles and aunts, if I'd had a chance to stay in Oz when I was Button-Bright's age (or Trot's), I wouldn't have hesitated a second. I never found their staying even slightly difficult to understand when I was a kid. Gordon: I don't think Texas teen-agers are any more geographically ignorant than those elsewhere in the country; I've seen national surveys that revealed an eq ual degree of ignorance. I don't know whether an earlier generation would have fared better or not. I would guess so for my age cohort, anyhow, because we were in elementary school during WW II, when following the progress of the war on maps was a major thing to do. Wars since then have all been localized, so even if you were interested in following its progress you didn't get much of a Big Picture. John: Granted that how far Dorothy could see from her tower would depend on its height (and the radius of the Oz world) - but we know that it can't be very high, because she carries on a conversation comfortably with people on the ground. I'd say she couldn't be up more than 60-80 feet above ground level, and most likely less. And there's no mention of the castle being on a hill of any height. I think most people reject "Queer Visitors" as valid evidence about Oz. It's too inconsistent with the FF. Tyler: Some of those Jordan books looked as if they were close to 1000 pages. Really hard to handle in PB, and uncomfortably heavy in HC. I may be missing something I'd like, but I'll take that chance... Dave: I too have heard that Sagan was an Oz fan. And 62 certainly isn't very old; I'll be there in less than two years! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 21:50:09 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz The tower: As others have remarked, the fact that Dorothy could speak to the Scarecrow from her room indicates that is perhaps no more than a few stories high. I can't access my illo of the scene, but it may help confirm that. As soon as I move (and unpack), I can persuse them again. On Carl Sagan: I, too, mourn the passing of this great man. His greatest acheivement was to bring an interest in science to the general population. Everybody may not understand all of phsyics, etc., but thanks to Sagan many people are aware of just how exciting science can be. We will miss him, and he is probably even now working with the Wizard to build a giant telescope. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 24, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 03:46:52 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-23-96 Baum's juvenile books, other than those listed by CrNoble: The Army Alphabet Book (1900) The Navy Alphabet Book (1900) Songs of Father Goose (1900) Animal Fairy Tales (1901) Father Goose's Yearbook:Quaint Quacks and Feathered Shafts for Mature Children (1907)--not really for kids The Last Egyptian (1908)--an adult novel L. Frank Baum's Juvenile Speaker (1910)--bits & pieces of other Baum stuff in one volume The Daring Twins (1911) Phoebe Daring (1912) Baum's Own Book for Children (1912)--a reprint of Juvenile Speaker Queer Visitors From Oz (1960) Text from the comic,illos by Dick Martin I may have missed some, too. I did not try to include pseudonymous work. Hopefully, in the not-too-distant future, _Bibliographia Baumiana_ will be available. Patrick Maund is working on it now, but it's an exhaustive and exhausting project. It will be an invaluable tool for us collectors. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 11:42:27 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-23-96 Robin: I'm curious about the demographics of the Digest, too. As to "where we're living", I'd be more interested in nearest major city than either actual city of residence or just state - e.g., I live in Naperville, but it would be more meaningful to say Chicago, rather than Naperville or Illinois. Some people, of course, probably don't live near a major city, but my guess is that this would be fairly rare because it's usually expensive to be active on the Internet if you're very far out in the boonies. (College towns would be the obvious exception.) All your questions are of interest to me. Other questions of interest might be: Are you an IWOC member? If so, since when? Are you a RCOO member? (Since when not so relevant since it's fairly new.) Is your interest in Oz mostly the movie, mostly the books, or both about equally? Are you interested in post-FF books? I'm sure other people will come up with other interesting potential questions that I haven't thought of yet. Are you volunteering to tabulate the poll results? If most people are learning the words to "The Star-Spangled Banner" from ball games then I suspect that they think there's a word "perolis" that occurs nowhere else in English, but refers to some kind of fight... Craig: There's "Baum's American Fairy Tales", 1908, which includes all the stories of the 1901 "American Fairy Tales" but also at least a couple more. "Little Wizard Stories" is just an omnibus of the six 1913 mini-books, and "Magical Monarch of Mo" is a slightly revised version of "A New Wonderland". And there were "The Army Alphabet" and "The Navy Alphabet", which I think were 1898 but am not sure. That's about it for children's books published under Baum's own name during his lifetime, though he wrote quite a few children's books and stories under other names, and there have been other collections and editions of his works published in more recent times. Robin or Herm could probably give you a definitive list. Tyler: From the illustration, it looks as if Dorothy's tower room was on the third or fourth floor, but relying on illustrations isn't usually a good idea, since they so often contradict the text. Baum does say that the tower was not so very high compared with modern buildings, but high enough to give a good view over the countryside. And Dorothy felt the need to shout as loudly as she could to attract the Ozites' attention. I think that around 60-80 feet is a reasonable guess. That's high enough to see over most trees and houses, but within shouting distance. In case there's no Digest tomorrow, I'll wish those of you who celebrate it a very Merry Christmas now. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 12:57:05 -0500 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest in the four years I've been a member of the IWOC, that the Fall issue arrived within it's year. Thanks to Bill Stillman and his staff! A cursory glance indicates book reviews by fellow Digest subscribers, David Hulan, Gili Bar-Hillel, and Stephen Teller, as well as some interesting looking articles. I'm looking forward to reading it cover to colorful cover. Merry Christmas to all!! Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 20:45:18 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz DEmographics thing: This is a good idea, but to do it well, we would need to mail one person directly with a brief statement giving pertinent information instead of random scatters on the Ozzy Digest. According to David, geography was a major subject in school in the good old days. By my time (I'm 28, BTW) geography had all but vanished from the classroom. What I know of it I taught myself by poring over maps. I saw an "intelligence test" from the 19th century published in a newspaper comparing the answers given by students back then and those today. A big chunk of this test consisted of naming rivers and mountains in Europe, which I hardly consider a test of your intelligence. In this case, it not that the students of 100 years past were any more intelligent, they had just spent considerably more time memorizing these that students today. David: While unwieldy, the Jordan book are a treasure. The only complaint I have is that the dialogue and the writing can get a little corny at times. It is almost as if Jordan were trying too hard to set the tone of epic fantasy. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:27:57 -0500 (EST) From: Mark K DeJohn <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-23-96 From: Barbara DeJohn I am finally back. We had a bad modem for about 2 weeks and I really missed the digest greatly. I wrote a message a couple of days ago but it never showed up. Dave, I will be glad to find out about the t-shirts and buttons. Do you need my address again? I would be interested in the demographics of this group like Robin had mentioned. If you make up a questionnaire I will reply. Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 01:26:33 -0500 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest For Craig Noble: Your Baum List is missing quite a few books: Baum's Own Book For Children The Juvenile Speaker The Army Alphabet The Navy Alphabet Phoebe Daring The Daring Twins Jaglon and the Tiger Fairies Visitors From Oz A Kidnapped Santa Claus The Songs of Father Goose Father Goose's Yearbook The Snuggle Tales (six volumes) By the Candalabra's Glare The Book of Hamburgs The Art of Decorating Show Windows Our Landlady The Last Egyptian (anonymously) These are books that carry Baum's name. Then there are also several dozen books written under other pen names: Aunt Jane's Nieces series, Mary Louise series, Flying Girl series, Boy Fortune Hunter series, Sam Steele series, the Ozman Tales, and individual books like Policeman Bluejay, Fate of a Crown, Annabel, Daughters of Destiny, and Tamawaca Folks. The points for all of these books are described in various back issues of the Baum Bugle. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 20:40:08 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Mark Anthony - FWIW, I have very little interest in eavesdropping on the repititious conversation of people I don't know, even when they are discussing Oz. I'd rather hear what you thought of SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND. Robin - Good News! There is now a third Goodkind book. He came through here recently, with his lovely wife, autographing it. He plans to continue to write more indefinitely. Merry Christmas To All, And To All..... Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 23:29:14 -0800 From: Ken Cope Subject: Oz CD-ROM Just about worth $.02, but here goes. Unfortunately, an Oz CD-ROM that would be worthy of the title is going to require a budget somewhere close to a million dollars, no less than half that. That money is going to be tied up for at least a year on between 10 and 15 expensive people, their equipment, overhead, and the rights to their work. Then you're going to hope to find somebody who wants to market and distribute the CD-ROM on some highly competitive shelf space. The assets of the Oz canon that are in public domain are a ready source of shovelware (the term for content that can be shoveled into a media format requiring more digital squeezing than originality i.e. Disney's _The Blankity Blank_ Activity Center, Living Storybook, etc.) but the parts that are not are going to require a good deal of rights negotiation. I'm still reminded of a Bloom County or Outland Sunday page with Opus in the last panel, trying to curl up in a comfy armchair holding a shiny round disc, wondering how this piece of metal and plastic is supposed to transport him to the hundred acre wood. on the web, since folks started pinging the net for Oz fans in the 90's. It has become pretty easy to put up a web page, (tho I can't find time to visit mine to update it since I slapped it together a year and a half ago) and there is no shortage of Oz pages, all of us eager to point at each other's work and share what we've prized from beyond the shifting sands. I'm not going to be the first to call the work that we're doing on the web with Oz a labor of love. I don't think that there will be much that can be placed on a CD-ROM that can't thrive nearly as well on the web! I'm just trying to explain that I don't have access to a CD-ROM bush, or a money tree, and hey kids, just cuz I have a couple of computers in the barn doesn't mean that I won't have to eat for a year while we put on a show! I'm swamped, lurking and won't discuss private projects publicly, my amateur days are over and am generally available for advice, but you have to understand that I'm pretty biased on this matter, and am open to some private discussion. parting thought: If you want to see what Disney might have done with the rights that he held to the Baum 14, you might rent _Babes in Toyland_. It featured all the Mousketeers, and the villain was played by Ray Bolger. I fear that the production values of that film are what we would have seen if he had used _The Rainbow Road to Oz_ as the vehicle for Annette et al. And Robin, when you get to the Bridge at Khazad Dum, watch out for folks from Babylon 5, ok! Ken Cope Ones & Zeroes SurReal Estate pinhead@ozcot.com ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 25, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] Merry Christmas to all! -- Dave ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 08:43:41 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-24-96 Baum's juveniles: Oops! I knew I'd forget something, and I did. Thanks, Herm, for reminding me of -Jaglon..._ and of _A kidnapped Santa Claus_. I tried to keep the list strictly to Baum juveniles, but I'm glad you added some of the other stuff. Poll: Yes, I'm volunteering to tabulate. What else do we want to know besides age, gender, location (nearest city, if applicable), RCOO or IWOC membership, primary Oz interest (book/movie),level of intereest in post-FF Oz books, and how many Oz books we've read? How 'bout:highest academic level achieved, profession, how we "discovered" Oz...? Welcome back, Barb! Bear: I'm glad to hear he's finished the third book. Has he learned to cut/prune some of his i.e's? He rambles, some, but even his ramblings are interesting. My only real complaint about him is that he allows his characters to remain stubbornly boneheaded long after he's made his point and long after I'm willing to suspend my disbelief that such smart characters wouldn't "see the light." Jordan does the same thing with the Nynaeve (sp.?) character. Anyway, I'm gonna finish _Stone of Tears_ (hopefully today) and dive into LOTR. David: I, too, have trouble with humongo books. My chubby little hands are, well, *little* and that makes it difficult to handle tomes. However, Jordan is worth the effort. Oz CD: Thanks for the info, Ken. Oh well. Merry Christmas, everyone! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:49:57 -0500 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Gigest A very happy and merry Holiday Season and an Ozzy Christmas, Kwanza or whatever to y'all from: Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 06:52:52 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-24-96 Hello, Dave et.al., I am a very recent recipient of the Ozzie Digest and member of IWOC, having stumbled across both while wandering around the net. As a long time (from childhood) enthusiast about the OZ books (and to a lesser degree the movie-I actually thought that Return TO OZ more faithful to the books) I have been following your discourse with great interest and am curious about a couple of things. I have seen many references to the Bugle, and recently a reference to RCOO. Could someone enlighten me about both of these? At any rate, I'm glad that I found you. Thanks, Bob Spark bspark@pacbell.net ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:37:48 -0800 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff A reply on the Oz CD-- Ken called an Oz CD "worthy of the title" to expensive to produce. I think if it were to be mass-produced for the public market, yes it would be a very large undertaking. From what I gather, though, it would be fairly easy to gather the PD works and images (if any-- what is the status on the artwork. That's not PD right?) and burn it on a CD rom to open from various applications. If taken as a labor of love, it could be sold for a cost-covering amount (maybe a bit more) on a case by case basis through the IWOC or convention tables. As Ken said, probably worth $.02, but there you go. The mass market approach, of course, could include hyper-text links to window-like applications, search engines, sound and music, animation or even movie clips, all PD and otherwise, and packaged in a box with colorful eye-cathing artwork and available at the nearest Target and BestBuy. Digest Poll-- Okay, so who's accepting submissions and where are all the questions? If it's about age, you better hurry up, because I got a birthday coming up! Yes, it's one of those so-close-to-Christmas-I- often-get-combined-presents type of thing, a theme I heard pass throught the Digest earlier. Merry Christmas everyone. Danny ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:43:29 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-24-96 Tyler: Yes, geography was a major subject in grade school when I was there, back in the Forties. They called it "social studies", and it included a certain amount of history as well, but it was mostly geography (counting discussion of the customs, major exports, etc. of countries as part of geography - not just topography and boundaries and capitals and such). Third grade we got some basic terminology like what constituted an island, a peninsula, a continent, etc., with some roaming around the globe picking out examples. Fourth grade we got a more advanced version of the same thing. Fifth was North American geography, sixth was European geography, and seventh was Latin American geography. Africa and Asia weren't considered very important then. While I agree that the comparisons of results on a geography test for late 19th and late 20th century students weren't in any sense "intelligence tests", I don't think it's fair to characterize the test as one of memorization, either. Do you regard, for instance, learning how to program in C++ as "memorization"? It's just a question of what was taught in schools then vs. now. For whatever reason, it was apparently decided sometime in the Sixties that geography wasn't something important to teach kids any more. Whether this was a correct decision is arguable, but it's certainly the reason why most Gen-Xers know so little about the subject, unless it happens to be something they find interesting and study on their own. (I never learned that much geography in school because it was something that fascinated me well before I got to even third grade; I was always way ahead of the level of any grade I was in as far as geographic knowledge was concerned. I was drawing my own Oz maps based on my own research long before there even was an IWOC, much less their maps. Though since I didn't have full access to most of the books back then, mine weren't at all comprehensive.) Barbara: Welcome back - we missed you! Hope your modem stays functional from now on. Ken C.: A professionally-done Oz CD-ROM would certainly be expensive. But the actual costs of producing a CD-ROM, once all the files for it exist, isn't all that high, based on figures I've seen quoted. The question would be how many reasonably skilled computer people would be willing to spend a considerable amount of their own time over the next three years putting in the work on creating the files, and how much the holders of the rights to material still under copyright would want up front. I don't think that there'd be a chance of getting places like CompUSA to carry the disc, but I don't think that was the idea - my impression was that it would be sold through the IWOC, and maybe Books of Wonder and a few other outlets that carry a lot of Oz-related items. Dave's description may have been too ambitious - multimedia programming isn't that easy - but a CD-ROM with the text and illustrations of all the FF Oz books and the other Oz-related Baum titles (DOT AND TOT, MMMO, ZIXI, JOHN DOUGH, SANTA CLAUS, SEA FAIRIES, SKY ISLAND, BAUM'S AMERICAN FAIRY TALES, maybe YEW), and all the issues of the Bugle and Oziana, shouldn't be ridiculously expensive as long as the Thompson, Neill, and Martin estates and Payes and the McGraws could be persuaded to allow it for some kind of reasonable royalty. But it is noted that you're not volunteering to be involved, which is fair enough. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:29:29 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Ozzy Christmas Growls Good news friends, the fall issue of THE BAUM BUGLE arrived today. Just to let everyone know whose service is slower than mine. Three of the five book reviewers are Digest members - Stephen, Gili and David. The tiny bios of the reviewers and their pictures are a nice touch. We can now refer to Gili as "Gili The Gorgeous." Well! I have finally found a reason to disagree with Tyler! Unwieldy? Corny? Jordan? I have read all seven and I certainly didn't notice this. And I'm not from Kansas. I'm with you on the treasure part. Maybe we can discuss this further off line. Remember, if a book doesn't grab David in the first 30 pages it's history. Barbara - Glad your back. Would you like what you missed? I have it all and am also on Compuserve. A Beary Merry Christmas To All, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 23:03:57 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Merry Christmas to all, even those who do not celebrate it for relgious reasons. Christmas also has a secular meaning today, and it represents the feelings of peace and love that Oz brings out in all of us. Oz data: If I have the time, I'll try to whip up a DLL and HTML form and we can do this on the web. Results will be written to a text file that I can download, import to a database app and tabulate them automatically. Cross your fingers. When I temped at INTEL, they wanted me to do something like this for them. I told them it was "very technically difficult and time- consuming", and I convinced them it was not worth the time and effort to do. The truth was, I didn't know how to do it at the time, but now I believe I do. This also assumes that CompuServe will grant me access to the system files on their web server. I'll kep you posted. David: In one of the Beezus/Ramona books of the 70's, young Ramona is in kinder- garten, hearing that famous song for the first time. She keeps waiting to see the "dawnzer lee light", but it never appears. Also, when being assigned seats, the teacher tells her to "sit here for the present". She sits and behaves all day, wondering what kind of present she'll get. Ken: Chris Dulabone mentioned the same thing a while back concerning a project headed up by Rob Roy MacVeigh before his untimely death. He wanted to do cartoon movies of the FF that were accurate to the text and the Neill illos. The estimate was over a million bucks. Not that much when comapred to such blockbusters as _The Lion King_, but lots for a labor of love that Oz is. This has been repeated more times that I can remember, but the fact is, outside of the MGM movie, Oz is simply not that well-known and producing a commercial product like the Oz CD-ROM may be prohibitively expensive. Now, if someone here wins the Powerball... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 26, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 07:06:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Christine R. Gray" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-25-96 Has anyone read the new book "The True Story of the Wicked Witch of the West"? I think that's the title. It is the witch's side of the Oz story with her background and her version of what Dorothy was Really like, I think. christine gray ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 12:49:50 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-25-96 Robin: Adding highest academic level achieved and profession (former, if retired, I assume) seem like reasonable additions to the poll. How we "discovered" Oz sounds like something that would be hard to report in a poll format; maybe what year we discovered Oz, and/or what book or movie was our first introduction to Oz? (I suspect the answer would be overwhelmingly WIZARD, either the book or the MGM movie. But there might be exceptions, which would be interesting.) Bob: Welcome to active participation in the Digest! As for your questions, the Bugle is THE BAUM BUGLE, the scholarly publication of the IWOC; if you've joined recently you should be getting your first copy soon. The RCOO is the Royal Club of Oz, which is an Oz club run by Books of Wonder and generally aimed more at younger readers than is the IWOC, though it has a fair number of adult members as well. I highly recommend the FAQs of both Dave Hardenbrook and Eric Gjovaag, which would have answered both those questions and lots of others you might not even have thought of yet. I don't have their URLs at my fingertips, but if nobody gives them in tomorrow's Digest I'll look them up for you. (Getting to either one will let you get to the other with a click; they're linked.) Danny: If the book is PD, the art and text are both PD. It might be possible for Neill or Kramer to have renewed their copyrights on the art for the late Thompson and Snow books that passed into PD; my impression is that they didn't, but it would be a good idea to check on that. All the Baum books, plus ROYAL BOOK starting in a few days, are completely PD, including the art. Bear: I usually give a book 50 pages; if it takes longer than that to pique my interest, then I doubt seriously that I'll find the rest of it worth the struggle. (Of course, if I find the writing itself bad, as opposed to finding the plot uninteresting, then I may stop a lot sooner. This doesn't often happen in professionally published books, though I've run across it a few times in mysteries from Zebra Books - who have a very good blurb writer to make up for their lack of a decent editor.) Tyler: Then there's the old joke about the young Mexican who came to the US on a visit, and on his return told all his friends how very polite Americans are. He went to a baseball game, and the only seat they had left was right in front of the flagpole out in left field. And before the game started, all the people stood up and faced him and sang out, "Jose, can you see?" David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 16:37:37 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Bob: Glad to hear from you! The "Bugle" is short for _The Baum Bugle_, the IWOC's major publication, three times a year. If you are a very new member of the IWOC, you may not have received one yet. RCOO is The Royal Club of Oz, another Oz club administered by Bookds of Wonder in New York City, publisher of many fine Oz books. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 19:52:27 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: CHRISTMAS OZ GROWLS Among a pile of Christmas books (Happyness is a book for Christmas), I received a surprise. BOW has reprinted WET MAGIC and THE MAGIC CITY, by Edith Nesbit. 1913 and 1910 respectively. They are in large paperback size. Very attractive with interior illustrations. A chance to read more by one of the pillars of the modern fantasy movement. This made me wonder what else she has written that I have never heard of. Happy birthday Danny. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 21:03:58 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-25-96 > From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> > Subject: Oz > > Chris Dulabone mentioned the same thing a while back concerning a project > headed up by Rob Roy MacVeigh before his untimely death. He wanted to do > cartoon movies of the FF that were accurate to the text and the Neill > illos. The estimate was over a million bucks. Not that much when comapred to > such blockbusters as _The Lion King_, but lots for a labor of love that Oz > is. Rob's estimates were always a lot higher than THAT. Last figure I can remember Rob talking about, before his death, was around $15 million. He knew the business well enough to know that it wouldn't be cheap, but he still figured he could do it cheaper than Disney with the same quality. And now, about this CD-ROM: May I reiterate a point I believe Ken made in his original statement? Why do we need to do all this stuff on CD-ROM in the first place, when it can all be done on the World Wide Web? If those of us with computer savvy (or, as in my case, computer savvy spouses) can set up FTP archive directories, and we each put in a book or three, we can EASILY get all of the PD texts out there and easily accessible, and perhaps HTML versions as well. It will take some coordination and cooperation, but I think it can be done, and with a lot less hassle than trying to market even a bare-bones CD-ROM. --Eric "Ken, do say something if I misunderstood that part" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 27, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 21:03:58 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-25-96 > From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> > Subject: Oz > > Chris Dulabone mentioned the same thing a while back concerning a project > headed up by Rob Roy MacVeigh before his untimely death. He wanted to do > cartoon movies of the FF that were accurate to the text and the Neill > illos. The estimate was over a million bucks. Not that much when comapred to > such blockbusters as _The Lion King_, but lots for a labor of love that Oz > is. Rob's estimates were always a lot higher than THAT. Last figure I can remember Rob talking about, before his death, was around $15 million. He knew the business well enough to know that it wouldn't be cheap, but he still figured he could do it cheaper than Disney with the same quality. And now, about this CD-ROM: May I reiterate a point I believe Ken made in his original statement? Why do we need to do all this stuff on CD-ROM in the first place, when it can all be done on the World Wide Web? If those of us with computer savvy (or, as in my case, computer savvy spouses) can set up FTP archive directories, and we each put in a book or three, we can EASILY get all of the PD texts out there and easily accessible, and perhaps HTML versions as well. It will take some coordination and cooperation, but I think it can be done, and with a lot less hassle than trying to market even a bare-bones CD-ROM. --Eric "Ken, do say something if I misunderstood that part" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:15:43 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Jim Whitcomb: Very impressive 12 Days illustration! David Hulan: You're probably right that it's understandable that Trot and Button Bright are content to stay in Oz without wanting to go home, but it's still odd that those parents are left without any word of what became of them. You'd think that Ozma (either on her own hook, or on the advice of some of her counselors) would insist that the kids really ought to go back, once she had the power to send them home (assuming that the homes are not as neglectful as, say, Robin Brown's), and if she sent some word to the parents to explain what was going on (via the Shaggy Man's radio?), you'd think that the narrative would have thought it worth mentioning. But if I'm going to start supposing radio messages that the narrative didn't report, it gets to be just as easy to suppose that the parents (a) died or (b) were brought to Oz later, and we didn't happen to hear about it. Or, of course, one can assume that the parents were in fact grossly neglectful and just didn't care. "Sky Island" and "Scarecrow" give that impression of the Von Smiths, but the Griffiths sound all right (Mrs. G. is sharp-tongued, but doesn't seem to be so much so as to appear abusive). Dan Mannix, in his "Enigma of Button Bright," suggested that the careful dressing of Button Bright in an expensive sailor suit in "Road" suggested that his mother took good care of him, and that perhaps she had died sometime before "Sky Island." Craig Noble -- I thought I'd put in a footnote to Robin Olderman's mention of "Animal Fairy Tales" (1901) and "Visitors from Oz" (1960). The Animal Fairy Tales came out originally as a series of short stories in the "Delineator" magazine, and didn't exist as a book (apart from the Reilly & Lee reprint of one of them, "Jaglon and the Tiger Fairies," as a picture book) until the Oz Club reprinted the series as a book. The text of "Visitors from Oz" came from some of the episodes of the "Queer Visitors from Oz" comic page, but made many large revisions in the text. The full text of the comic pages (apart from a minor revision in omitting a few racist gags) was reprinted a few years back by Armstrong State College Press under the title of "The Third Oz Book." Bear -- Yes, E. Nesbit's books for children are excellent. Incidentally, if you have Baum's essay on Modern Fairy Tales (it's been reprinted various places, including Michael Patrick Hearn's Critical Heritage edition of "Wizard"), she was one of the modern authors he praised. She wrote about a dozen fantasy books. Perhaps the best are the three "five children" books ("Five Children and It," "The Phoenix and the Carpet," and "The Amulet") and the pair of "The House of Arden" and its simulquel, "Harding's Luck." -- Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:44:15 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Christine, Glad to see some new people posting! The book you are thinking of is called _Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West_ by Gregory Maguire. While part of it is the story in _Wizard_ from the Witch's point of view, it is also the story of her life. This book has been the subject of much discussion on the digest a while back, and the consensus has been that this was a very well written book, and a fascinating story on its own terms (with some dissenting opinions), although not historically accurate to the bulk of Ozzy material. I'd recommend it. Eric: It's true that all this stuff can be put on the web, especially since many of us have space for web pages. Anybody volunteering for coordinator? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:51:45 -0700 (MST) From: Sandy Andrews Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-26-96 About the CD idea. Of course no one has time to do something wonderful and interactive, although I know there are Oz people who have the skills. The problem is that professional multimedia work is really a lot of work. You tend to go without sleep for long periods of time and this isn't healthy. However, if people get the files together, it would be incredibly easy to make a master CD. I know 'cause I can make a hybrid PC/Mac CD in, usually, about 20 minutes. (Assuming that everything has been set up right.) (Which is quite an assumption, of course.) The problem is that while I could make copies for a limited number of people, to do it right you'd have to send it out to a company with the proper equipment. If you wanted to sell it, this is what would have to be done. I'd love to see a really well-done Oz CD. But, it's true, you'd need a grant (or lots of money to invest) and a bunch of talented & educated people. Projects like this require a team nowadays. If it's just information you want on the CD, though...piece of cake. Get the files together and I can do it. _____________ Sandy Andrews ozma@asu.edu Arizona State University, Tempe AZ Floaters Gallery ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:53:57 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-26-96 Christine: That's probably WICKED, by Gregory Maguire, that you're talking about. It's very heretical; some Oz fans hated it, and others (including me) thought it was good enough of its kind, though not at all like the real Oz. It should be in most decent libraries (-not- in the children's section), so you could check it out for yourself without spending any money. Or it's out in mass-market PB now. (Incidentally, Dorothy barely appeared in the book - just a few brief scenes toward the end. The chief villain is the Wizard.) Bear: Since I'm not sure what Nesbit books you've heard of, I don't know which ones you might not have heard of either. I don't even know if I know of all of them. There are at least four Bastable books (The Treasure Seekers, The Wouldbegoods, The New Treasure Seekers, and Oswald Bastable and Friends [think that's the right title for the last one; I don't have it]), three "five children" books (Five Children and It, The Phoenix and the Carpet, The Story of the Amulet), two House of Arden books (House of Arden, Harding's Luck), and several singles (The Enchanted Castle, The Book of Dragons, The Magic City, The Magic World, Wet Magic, The Railway Children). There may be others. (I used to have one - think my mother still does - called Beautiful Stories from Shakespeare, which are prose retellings, with occasional quotes, of the comedies and tragedies, written at what was then probably about 5th-grade level and would now probably be about 7th. That wasn't original, though.) She supported her husband and children with her writing for many years, so I expect that, as with Baum, there were a lot of ephemera that never made it into book form in her lifetime. Eric: Certainly it would be possible to put all the material that would go onto a CD-ROM onto the Web, but I personally don't find the Web nearly as convenient of access as a CD-ROM that I can tuck into my drive whenever I feel like it without having to dial up an on-line service. And I wouldn't have to tie up a phone line. And many people have to pay for their phone time by the minute as well. Look at it the other way - if the material exists in a form that could be put on the Web, then burning it onto a CD-ROM doesn't cost very much. The last I remember seeing it, the setup charge and a thousand copies of the CD-ROM would cost on the order of a grand, and it's more likely to have gone down than up since then. Add in the cost of a jewel box and a simple label and you'd probably need to sell about 150 of them at $10 plus S&H to break even. Or a hundred at $15. I'd be more than willing to spend $15 for a CD-ROM, even one that just had the PD books - sure, I could just download them, but why tie up that big a chunk of my hard drive? And I have the hard copy books already, but I'd like to have the ability to search them, even just with my regular word processor. (I'd even be willing to *sigh* use our Windows machine if it turned out to be too expensive to have it available for both PC and Mac.) It wouldn't be likely that computer stores would carry it, but I'd be surprised if the IWOC couldn't sell a couple of hundred of them fairly easily. If the non-PD books were included, with royalties to the copyright holders, then the price would have to go up - but then more people would probably be interested in buying it, too, so the price wouldn't have to go up proportionately. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 17:26:47 -0500 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 12-26-96 Christine: Could the book you're referring to be "Wicked", by Gregory Maguire? It is subtitled "The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West". All: I hope Santa treated everyone as well as he treated me!! It sounds, Bear, like you did very well. :-) Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:06:01 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Bob and any others - If you don't have WWW access, let us know and one of us can send you the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) by email. Briefly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Friday, 27 December, 1996 00:10:13 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things I've been hush-hush the last few days to let people get their 1/50 of a dollar's-worth in about my proposal for an Ozzy CD-ROM. Granted, my original proposal may have been too ambitious, but I still think, based on remarks by David Hulan, Sandy Andrews, etc., we can compile a modest CD-ROM of Ozzy goodies. I agree that this would be a good idea to have a disk for those who don't have access to, or can't afford long download sessions on, the Web. I will think more about what I think should be on the disk, and post a "sample directory listing" for everyone to comment on and add to... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 28, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 05:40:05 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-27-96 David, et. al., in regards to the CD-ROM: Oh, don't get me wrong, I like the CD-ROM idea as well, and would support a stripped down bare bones version whole heartedly. I'm just suggesting that the CD-ROM and Internet are not incompatible. We can put the files up on the Web/ftp/etc. first for preview, editing, etc., then once we get them all to the point we agree on, THEN the CD-ROM can come out. --Eric Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 08:59:27 -0500 From: Scott Piehler Subject: OZ-story#1 for sale Greetings! Another Ozzy item for sale. Oz-story Magazine #1, (125 pages, B&W, w/ color covers) published June 1995 by Hungry Tiger press Autographed by Eric Shanower Mint Condition David Maxine, Editor in chief Erc Shanower-Art Director Percy & The Shrinking Violet (new Oz story) by Rachel Cosgrove Pays illustrated by Shanower Dragon of Pumperdink by R.P. Thompson Illustrated by Anna Maria Cool Dorothy & the sequels (poem) by Ruth Berman Wonderland of Oz-part 1-reprint of 1930's comics adaptation by Walt Sprouse Mr. H.M. Wogglebug, T.E. (poem)by L.F. Baum illustrated by Ike Morgan Gugu & the Kalidahs-written/illustrated by Shanower Little journeys of Nip & Tuck-art by John R. Neill verse by W.R. Bradford Handy Mandy, Solomon T. Wise's new cook poem by R.P.T., illustrated by Neill Outside the Cabinet-maker's by F. Scott Fitzgerald The Billy Bounce Circus & Zoo-story & art by W.W. Denslow Baloon Girl of Oz-by Stephen Kane illustrated by Shanower Parts Unavailable-poem Shanower Art-Neill Pathetic Losers of Oz-Story/art-Ed Brubaker Sam Steele's Adventures on Land & Sea (complete 1906 novella)-by L.F.B. art by Neill Asking $15, (cover price) plus shipping. In the event of multiple offers, It will go to an open e-mail auction system. I'll take offers through 12/31. Email if interested- rosco29@mindspring.com Scott Piehler Scott Piehler Atlanta, GA USA http://www.mindspring.com/~rosco29/home.htm ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 07:03:55 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-27-96 Bear et.al. Have WWW access, read the FAQ's, became informed. I appreciate all the answers. Thanks, Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:03:26 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-27-96 Ruth: Agreed that it's odd that Trot's and Button-Bright's parents are left without any word of them (Betsy's, too, for that matter, unless they were on the ship that went down, or she was already an orphan). So maybe they died. I don't think Button-Bright's careful dressing in ROAD necessarily suggests that his mother cared that much about him. The Von Smiths (now that's an improbable name in all respects - aside from the fact that it uses a German preposition with an English name, "von" in German names always takes a place, not an occupation, as its object) were clearly quite rich, and rich kids in those days were rarely dressed by their mothers even if their mothers doted on them. In SKY ISLAND he specifies that he had a governess (whom he didn't like); when he was at the age he was in ROAD he more likely had a nurse, or nanny, but in any case he was almost certainly dressed by a servant. (His mother would probably have bought his clothes, of course. But rich parents generally would buy good quality clothes for their children even if they otherwise ignored them.) Personally, I like the Bastable books (which aren't fantasy) the best of Nesbit's work, and didn't care that much for the Arden books. But that's undoubtedly a matter of taste; all of her books are worth reading. Sandy: You confirm what I thought about the ease of generating a CD-ROM once the files are available - and if they're on the Web, they're obviously available. Dave: I'll be interested in what you come up with as proposed contents for the CD-ROM. I believe I gave a list a couple of days ago of what I thought should be on it as a minimum, but there are many other possibilities. CD-ROMs hold a lot of data, though if you want to try to reproduce all the color plates from the books and the photographs from the BUGLE you can get into some pretty massive files pretty quickly. (Text and line art, on the other hand, don't take much space compared to the capacity of a CD.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:40:31 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-27-96 _Harding's Luck_?! That's one I've never read. Gotta check BIP to see if it's still available. More Nesbit to read! (After I finish rereading LOTR, of course.) _Digest_ poll: There doesn't seem to be an overwhelming interest. Only one or two folks have suggested questions for it. Anyone else care? Would you respond if such a poll were created? Are only a few of us curious about the rest of us? My Oz novel is now "blocked out," and almost half written, but there's an overwhelming amount of work to do on it. The task I dread the most is editing my own "precious" words. It's much easier editing someone else's copy, when I don't have an emotional attachment to each phrase... . --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 14:36:25 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Carl: Go home. Go home. GO HOME! Urkel: I don't have to take this. I'm going home! As I recall, the EC folks used to beg Peter and Speedy to stay in Oz, but they always politely declined. This suggests that others (Button-Bright, Trot, Betsy) really wanted to stay and Ozma let them. We can assume either that the home situation was not ideal (neglect, deaths, etc.) or that Ozma made other arrangements (although would a letter from beyond really satisfy a loving parent?). Speaking of Button-Bright, I have been re-reading one of the few titles that happens to be on top of my pile of boxes. BTW, moving will take place over Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Anyway, the title in question is _Sky Island_. During these last two days, Button-Bright struck me as a very responsible and intelligent person. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 14:31:01 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: OZ: Good news I'm pleased to announced that my ftp site is now up and running. This will allow anyone to access documents that I've made available for Oz fans. So far all I have in there are a plain-vanilla, text-only version of my "Wizard of Oz" FAQ, and David Parker's article on "The Wizard of Oz" as a parable on populism that was printed here some time ago, but I hope to have more later. (Yes, I'll take suggestions, but my memory is limited, so no, I can't put all of the public domain Oz books on there, much as I'd like to.) To access it: Using the World Wide Web: ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/t/tiktok/oz Using regular login: Type in ftp ftp.eskimo.com Then, cd u/t/tiktok/oz --Eric Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 18:36:00 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Hello Ozzy Digesters: A few months ago, someone posted the name/address of a Russian bookstore in San Francisco that sold Russian editions of the Wizard of Oz. If anyone has this info, would you please be kind enough to re-post it or send it to me via my personal email. Thank you! Re: the Oz CD-ROM. I have a question that is "sort of" related to this topic. Does anyone know if an index exists for articles/subjects/topics that have been written in "The Baum Bugle"? My reason for asking is twofold: First, I would like access to such an index, and secondly, maybe this would be another good CD-ROM project, if one doesn't exist. Many times, I like to do research on Oz-related topics for my own edification. I just think it would be nice to have the articles that have been written in "The Baum Bugle" indexed in one place. There have been some wonderful contributions made there over the years and since "The Baum Bugle" is the official journal of Oz, it seems fitting to have it indexed as such [IMHO]. Lastly, FYI: for all those Oz movie enthusiasts, the 1997 Judy Garland Festival schedule has been posted in "The Judy Garland Database". The URL is: http://www.zianet.com/jjohnson/contents.htm After you access the database, click on the section "Grand Rapids" then click on "Judy Garland Festival" to get all the info. Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 17:20 +0000 (WET) From: lti@lava.net (Linda Inouye) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-27-96 More on the CD-ROM idea: For those interested in e-text on CD-ROM, Wisdom Quest (http://www.wisdomquest.com/> offers an eLibrary CD-ROM for $10. I have no connection with this company and haven't seen the product myself, but it sounds something like what is being considered for the Oz CD-ROM. MARVELOUS LAND and WONDERFUL WIZARD are among the texts on the CD. One customer sent in a suggestion that more texts by Baum be added in the future. :-) >The eLibrary CD-ROM - AN ENTIRE BASIC LIBRARY >* 350 etexts (from The Gutenberg Project & The Library of Congress) >* Science Lesson Plans with Video clips from the Newton's Apple PBS series >* 35 reference documents >*Includes the Bible, the complete works of William Shakespeare and 280 >classic literature stories. > >Features Include >- Concurrent Access >- Global Font Control >- Search at over 12,000 pages per second I believe Wisdom Quest only makes products for the Mac platform, but this item in their FAQ may be of interest as a starting point: "I would like to create an educational CD using Sonar for the search engine. How is this accomplished, can you provide me with assistance and, if so what would it cost? "We created the eLibrary 96 CD-ROM from concept to golden master in 46 days with only two people, (no programmers).The key to this development is Sonar Professional CD, a $795.00 search engine that we have licensed from Virginia Systems Software for $2.00 per disc. The content developer uses the Sonar indexing application to automatically create the data files that display text, graphic and video content to the user. An electronic post-it note is attached to every page for the addition of instrucional comments. We are prepared to manufacture, publish, sell and deliver to the customer, educational CDs, created by educators, from our site for $5.00 of a $10.00 selling price." -- Linda Inouye ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 23:21:28 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-23-96 Robin: > Very few of them know the words >to "The Star Spangled Banner." Actually, I'll bet some of us will have >trouble getting all the words right--in spite of all those ball games! In the musical "Over Here" (I think that was the title), which is set during WWII, at the climax of the show the spy is unmasked when singing "The Star-Spangled Banner". How? "No *real* American knows the words to the second verse!" Happy New Year to all. -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 00:26:55 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Ruth - Thanks for the Nesbit tip on THE HOUSE OF ARDEN and HARDING'S LUCK. I hadn't heard of those either. I have only read THE ENCHANTED CASTLE. David - Six more that are new to me. Thanks. The Baum Books and/or FF40 CD - Here is a chance for someone to start a little business. I would guess that there are a bunch of us on this Digest who would be willing to make a modest investment as "stock holders" in such an enterprise and more who would be willing to pay in advance to support the production. That is if IWOOC isn't willing to pick this up and run with it. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Saturday, 28 December, 1996 01:46:47 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things CD-ROM: Eric wrote: >Oh, don't get me wrong, I like the CD-ROM idea as well, and would support >a stripped down bare bones version whole heartedly. I'm just suggesting >that the CD-ROM and Internet are not incompatible. We can put the files >up on the Web/ftp/etc. first for preview, editing, etc., then once we get >them all to the point we agree on, THEN the CD-ROM can come out. I think this would be a good idea... Here are the things I'd like to see on the Ozzy CD-ROM: -- E-texts of all the PD Oz books (ideally the entire FF) -- Sample Ozzy pics from Denlow and Neill, and also from members of the Digest, and perhaps folks like Shanower and Dick Martin. -- My Ozzy pics, including the "photos" of Ozian landscapes that are on my site, and my planned Ozzy "fly-through" movie -- A backround on the History of Oz, perhaps divided into Baum, Post-Baum FF, Stage and Movies ( with perhaps a special section on the MGM movie), The Modern Era (BoW & Buckethead), and the Heretics (_Wicked_, Laumer, etc.) -- The files in the Ozzy Digest Archive (see section 1.9 of my FAQ) -- My Ozzy computer game (if I can finish it in time) ( I will now eagarly await *your* suggestions, and go back in the old messages and see which ones you've already said; or if there's something you want really badly to see on CD, now would be a perfect time to reiterate it. :) ) NEW OZZY FILE: Speaking of the Ozzy Digest file archive, I now have a file of all of Ken Shepherd's chronologies for the Oz books he submitted (up through _Emerald City_). THE _BUGLE_: I finally got the Fall '96 _Bugle_ today. (I must be very low on mailing priorities list.) Here are some comments/observations: Roycraft's dust jackets are interesting--especially inaccuracies like his blonde Ozma and his Woot that looks like Huck Finn. Ah yes, "The Bluebird" --A film I never liked, but distinct for me in featuring Gale Sondergaard (the would-be MGM Witch of the West) and Helen Ericson (who--along with Greer Garson, Vivian Leigh, June Duprez, and Anita Louise--is on my list of MGM Glinda could-and-should-have-beens). I enjoyed Martin Gardner's essay on _Tin Woodman_ (now if only I could get my "Oz on Charon" letter to him!), though since this is the book I always know as "Ozma's coming of age" book, I'm sorry that the assertive and mature role Ozma plays in _Tin Woodman_ is only mentioned in passing. I'm sorry the gallery of depictions of Nick Chopper omitted the imaginative one (sadly I forget the artist's name) in which he is an assembly of kitchen utensils including a tea kettle for his head and irons for his feet. I enjoyed David and Gili's reviews of _Wicked_, although I will probably never bring myself to read _Wicked_...The idea of Oz so maligned and twisted (and that the public are reading it!) just distresses me too much. And I gather from the review that Glinda, in being portrayed as an indifferent scatterbrained socialite, is more libelled than any other native Ozite in the book (as if the MGM movie didn't malign her enough!). I'm glad the "Oz in the News" included the Oz reference in the Democratic Convention (I am another "diehard" C-SPAN junkie who watched to the end) in the Kansas delegation leader's speech. (Those speeches given during the Roll-Call of the States are supposed to be limited to how great the state is, all the wonderful natural landmarks it has, and what famous teams make their home there.) However, IIRC he said that Clinton has brains, heart and courage UNlike the Scarecrow, Tin Man, and Lion (whereas Dole LACKS brains, heart and courage AS DOES S., T.M., and L.)...Not only did his remarks trash Bob Dole, but they trashed Oz as well! Dorothy: So how was the Democratic Convention? Ozma: GRRRR...I think I'll vote for Ralph Nader! :) :) :) All in all, I think this is the most enjoyable _Bugle_ I've received in the two years I've been an IWOC member so far...Keep up the good work, guys! OZZY TRIVIA: I found the following question on a "Trivial Pursuit" card: "What part of the earth is sometimes known as 'Davy Jones' Locker'?" Answer: The sea. *My* question is this--Did this term by any chance arise out of _Lucky Bucky_, or did _Lucky Bucky_ adopt the term in naming the whale? Whew! My longest post in a long time! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 29, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 07:50:19 -0500 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 12-28-96 Robin: I am interested in the poll and agree with the contents suggested thus far. And, good luck with your Oz novel. :) Bear: Regarding the Oz CD, I too, would be a willing investor/purchaser. As to contents, Dave's suggestions seem to cover most everything but the "kitchen sink" ! :-D And, speaking of Dave: Thank you, Dave, for all the 1996 Digests, for your sacrifices of time and effort in bringing them to us. We all greatly appreciate it. I have thoroughly enjoyed the posts by every contributor, and have enhanced my knowledge of Oz as a result. I regard you all as my Ozzy friends, and wish you all a Happy, Healthy & Ozzy New Year! (:-D) Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 06:12:22 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-28-96 > From: Eric Gjovaag > Subject: OZ: Good news > > I'm pleased to announce... ...that I goofed. I left out two MAJOR steps in how to access my ftp site. Amended instructions follow: > Using regular login: Type in ftp ftp.eskimo.com As your login, type in "anonymous" As your password, type in your e-mail address > Then, cd u/t/tiktok/oz And if you're only interested in one of the documents, instead of both: For my FAQ, type cd u/t/tiktok/oz/ozfaq.txt For the parable article, type cd u/t/tiktok/oz/parable.txt Yes, I will try to answer any questions anyone has, but be warned, I'm new at this myself, I'm getting all my information from my wife... Yes, there is a "Bugle" index -- but it only goes up to 1988, and the compiler, Fred Otto, passed away a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if the Club still has it for sale, but I think it's time to think about an updated edition, and perhaps an online version that can be updated with each issue, then serve as the basis for new printed editions, say, every five years. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > I enjoyed Martin Gardner's essay on _Tin Woodman_ (now if only I could get > my "Oz on Charon" letter to him!) Have you thought of writing to him c/o the "Bugle"? > I'm sorry the gallery of depictions of Nick Chopper omitted the imaginative > one (sadly I forget the artist's name) in which he is an assembly of kitchen > utensils including a tea kettle for his head and irons for his feet. I have that edition. I suspect that picture wasn't included because it's only in black and white. What's the point of a color gallery if you're going to reprint black and white pictures? I do know that that gallery is only a small sample of the pictures Dick Rutter assembled. > OZZY TRIVIA: > I found the following question on a "Trivial Pursuit" card: "What part > of the earth is sometimes known as 'Davy Jones' Locker'?" Answer: The sea. > *My* question is this--Did this term by any chance arise out of _Lucky > Bucky_, or did _Lucky Bucky_ adopt the term in naming the whale? The latter. Don't forget, Baum used the term in "The Sea Fairies," and I'm sure Davy Jones' locker pre-dates Oz and the 20th century. (Seriously, do you REALLY think Neill was such an influential writer that he could affect our culture to such an extent that a term he coined turned up in Trivial Pursuit?) --Eric "Verbose, today, aren't I?" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 09:57:42 -0500 From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Poll Robin -- I think the Digest poll is a great idea, and I would certainly respond. This may have been suggested already, but I'd like to learn about Digesters' other reading interests (and maybe even other interests period.) -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:11:20 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-28-96 Eric: Putting the files on the Web first and getting them Right before doing the CD-ROM sounds like an excellent approach to me. Scott P.: I already have OZ STORY MAGAZINE #1, but if anyone on the Digest doesn't, I recommend they get it, either through you or direct from Hungry Tiger Press (at least, I think they still have copies available). Robin: Not sure if HARDING'S LUCK is still in print or not. The story is interlocked with the story of HOUSE OF ARDEN, with one or two of the adventures happening in both books, but from different points of view. Mostly, the magic in both comes from the Moldiwarps. I liked HARDING'S LUCK rather the better of the two, though neither is among my favorite Nesbits. I'll certainly respond to the poll, but then I'm one of the people who did come up with some other questions, etc. I hope others are interested enough to respond, at least; I share your curiosity about the demographics of the Digest. Good luck with your Oz novel! (Though if you're entering it in the Centennial Contest, not -too- good! ) Tyler: I agree with you - in SKY ISLAND Button-Bright appears as a very responsible and intelligent person, especially for someone who can't be more than 8-9 years old. That's the character I tried to use for him in GLASS CAT, though as it turned out most of his best scenes were ones that got cut in getting it down to publishable length. Jim: As quite a few other people will probably tell you, there's an index to the Baum Bugle available from the IWOC; it's listed among the various items you can order from them. It only covers up through 1988, unfortunately, but it does do that. And it costs $10. (Query for IWOC Board members on the Digest: Are there any plans for an updated version?) Eleanor: Isaac Asimov used that bit - no real Americans knowing the second verse to "The Star-Spangled Banner" - in a mystery story, too. Don't know when "Over Here" was written, so I don't know if its author got the idea from Asimov, Asimov got it from the musical, or it was a case of independent invention. Bear: Sure, I'd be willing to put up some of the advance money for the CD-ROM if the IWOC isn't interested in handling it. Dave: I think that at least the Oz-related Baum books (MMMO, DOT AND TOT, SANTA CLAUS, ZIXI, JOHN DOUGH, SEA FAIRIES, SKY ISLAND) ought to be included on the CD-ROM as well, if not some of his fantasies (like MASTER KEY and YEW) that are somewhat Ozzy in nature but not directly connected with Oz by common characters. And I don't think it would overburden a CD-ROM to include -all- the b/w art from the (PD) books, though the color stuff, particularly that printed behind the text in WIZARD, is probably carrying things too far. To do that, you'd probably have to treat the text as a graphic too, with huge increases in the file size. And if the IWOC will cooperate, at least the texts of all the BUGLES and OZIANAs would be a useful addition, although since the club is still selling them in hard copy they might not be willing to make them available cheaply on the CD. Maybe if only the text was included - this could act as a "tease" to encourage people to buy the back issues so they could get the accompanying artwork. (More important for the BUGLE than for OZIANA, to be sure.) It may just be postal delay, Dave; don't feel too bad. The BUGLE is mailed from the Midwest, I believe, and the people who got it before you seem to be from the Midwest and Northeast for the most part. This time of year third-class mail doesn't move very fast. As I said in my review, you have to be willing to compartmentalize a lot to read WICKED with any enjoyment. And yes, Glinda is more maligned than any native Ozite, although to the best of my recollection she's the only native Ozite who plays a significant role in both WICKED and the FF, aside from Elphaba herself, so that isn't really saying much. "Davy Jones' Locker" for the bottom of the sea goes back to long before LUCKY BUCKY; I'm sure that Neill gave his whale that name in a gesture to the nautical legend. (Actually, if that Trivial Pursuit card said "the sea" they were wrong; "Davy Jones' Locker" is the -bottom- of the sea, where wrecked ships and drowned sailors end up.) I'm not sure what the origin of the term might be, though at a guess it's Welsh (or anti-Welsh) - "Davy Jones" sure sounds like a Welsh name, anyhow. As proof that the term is older than LUCKY BUCKY, Cap'n Bill refers to escaping Davy Jones' Locker when he and Trot fetch up in the cave at the beginning of SCARECROW. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 12:12:40 -0800 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff On Oz Cd-- The Oz Files: Picture and discription on the celebrities and geographic areas in Oz. Similar to what Piglet Press has, unless you think you can't improve perfection. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 14:21:33 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Dave: The term "Davy Jones" (nautical slang for "the sea" or "the spirit of the sea") pre-dates Lucky Bucky by a couple of centuries. The OED gives a 1751 citation for "Davy Jones" and an 1803 citation for "Davy Jones' locker". Incidentally, I've heard that the OED is on-line now. Does anyone have any details on that site? Given the volatility of Internet sites carrying Ozzy information, I think a Oz CD-ROM would be a *great* idea. Some ideas: is there any way that the page colors of the original _Road_ could be included? And wouldn't it be possible to include all of the color plates if one reduced the graphic files to a manageable size (say in the 100 kilobyte range), which I think could be done without seriously compromising their quality. As for back issues of the Bugle: this would involve an about-face on the part of the IWOC with regard to copyright protection. There is a terrific scholarly apparatus on-line called CarlUncover, which allows you to do author, title, and keyword searches through thousands of scholarly journals, locate the articles, and have them faxed to your e-mail address for about $10 a shot. The Baum Bugle is included among the journals listed, but with the notation that the publishers of the Bugle do not allow their articles to be faxed. This I assume would also put the kabosh on Interlibrary Loan access to the Bugle. The CarlUncover site is at http://www.carl.org/uncover/ Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 01:05:22 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-28-96 Re: CD-ROM: I'd like to see The Baum Bugle on CD too, perhaps with Oziana. Robin & LOTR: Your reading LOTR inspired me to read it again, too. But I last read it 20 years ago. In the mean time I acquired a leather bound edition of the work--which I thought would be easier on the eyes than the paperback edition. The only drawback is that it's kind of a large volume to carry around, or prop up easily... Robin & Digest Poll: Go ahead and ask the questions and see who responds. I'll answer. I have nothing to hide. (Well, almost nothing....) Re: Tyler reading Sky Island: You're reading Baum's best work, IMHO. Re: Index to Baum Bugle: There was an index put together by the late Fred Otto and sold by the IWOC. I think it might have been updated recently. Re: Fall '96 Bugle: This is the best Bugle I've seen since the Winter '76 issue ;). I liked knowing more about the Roycraft dust jackets--jackets I've never really appreciated. I remember a long time ago buying a copy of Hungry Tiger with one of these jackets on it and throwing the jacket away! Anyway, it's sure easy to tell they're from circa 1959, which also gave us tail fins, plastic furniture, colored aluminum drinking cups, and aluminum Christmas trees. Compare the Roycraft drawings with the same era Shirley Temple TV show drawing in the same Bugle. In regard to "The Bluebird", this has to be one of the most depressing films made, IMHO. And regarding the Bugle's new look: are several illustrations crooked, or am I just reading with my head tilted? (No response is necessary....) Re: Dave's comment about Anita Louise as an MGM Glinda "could-and-should-have-been"--Well, how about Tina Louise? :) Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 23:13:17 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz James: The Oz Club offers something called _The Best of the Baum Bugle_. I believe it is some kind of index. Does anybody else know more about it? Dave: I can't think of anything to add to your suggestions of material for the Ozzy CD-ROM, except perhaps bios of the famous Oz authors/illustrators. My personal top prioorities are e-texts of as many of the FF as we can get along with discussions of the makeup/history/geography/etc. of Oz. Since Dole was from Kansas, the Oz references were flying this campaign season. Unfortunately, in some people's zest to zap Dole, Oz itself got caught in the crossfire a little bit. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 23:29:18 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-21-96 I have returned from a week in Alabama! Visited the Lost Sea in Tennessee--it boasts an underground lake that they take you boating upon! No fishing is allowed, so the trout they stock the lake with are as big as salmon. Ruth Berman: >Melody Grandy: I finished reading "The 7 Blue Mountains of Oz" (vol. 1) and enjoyed it very much -- am looking forward to vol. 2. Zim and Dinny are interesting characters, and the variety of Zim's personas and abilities is intriguing.< Hooray! Glad you enjoyed Seven Blue Mountains. Am also glad you found the *good* characters interesting! (Frankly, *I* think evil characters are bores! The 'good guys' Dr. Who, Mr. Spock, and Sherlock Holmes are infinitely more interesting than their adversaries.) The limitations of Zim's alter-egos are not always in his mind--Brown Bleegum, Ganalan, Vega and Winkle are more short-fingered or less flexible in the hands than his true self--hence they are more limited as far as their use of magical gestures. Even--with different mouths and tongues--in their use of magical words. David Hulan: Finished 'Beekeeper's Assistant' whilst on holiday. Mary Russell seems intelligent enough for the Great Detective all right, but what a temper! After rereading the teaser for the next book, it seems to ME like the sardonic ironic Holmes is giving Russell a proposal of marriage disguised as a refusal of marriage. Mary only sees the refusal of marriage on the surface and BLAM! She jumps out of the carriage he's driving & deliberately makes his horse bolt. After inadvertently causing a fatal car accident to her family with her temper, one would think she would know better than deliberately repeat history with her best friend. I'd have more sympathy for the character if she had simply run off. On the plus side--the author can make you feel like you're living in Holmes's Britain of WWI. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 23:30:23 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-21-96 Tyler Jones (&others who have remarked on this issue.) >Interesting Evil: There is a quote that I don't remember to well about evil being more interesting than good. It goes something like: "What is it about evil, that as despicable as it is, it draws us all to it like moths to a flame?" < There's a good quote on this issue in "An Uncommon Scold" attributed to Simone Weil: "Imaginary evil is romantic and varied; real evil is gloomy, monotonous, barren, boring. Imaginary good is boring; real good is always new, marvelous, intoxicating. "Imaginative literature," therefore, is either boring or immoral or a mixture of both." In other words, evil may look interesting, but living it is quite another thing entirely. Rather like the difference between seeing a tornado (interesting, fascinating!) and being caught in one (Arrrrrrgh! Ouch! Heeeellllp! Ow! Screech! Pain! Agony! Gaaaaah! Crunch! Wham!). Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 00:58:40 -0500 From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: For: Ozzy Digest Re: Nesbit. No one seems to have mentioned The Wonderful Garden. That one is my own favorite. Probably the most "modern" in feel and certainly one of the most fun. It is the single work which Edward Eager got closest to in his attempts at the sincerest form of flattery. And one in which it isn't altogether clear whether magic is at work or not. You take your pick at that one. There is also another collection of short stories called The Five of us and Madeleine. (Imho, Wet Magic is all wet. A very weak piece of work.) ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 30, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 05:45:21 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Oz I've got another announcement: I've now started enhancing my web page with (finally!) some graphics. Check it out, especially if you want to see what I look like . And to those who want to include essays on Oz history, geography, etc., on this still-very-much-in-the-very-early-planning-stage CD-ROM: I don't think this is a terribly good idea -- mostly because we can't come to any sort of agreement here on many aspects of these subjects. This, IMHO, is indicative that Oz fans in general, not just those online, probably couldn't agree. I suggest that we try to limit this to previously published material, focusing on the Oz and Baum books. Anything else that can fit -- old "Bugle" articles, illos, etc., is gravy. Preparing new material for the CD-ROM, which seems to be the direction this material is headed in, should be a slightly higher priority for the CD than Nixon's Checkers speech. --Eric "Of course, I may the only one who thinks this way" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### "Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!" --Calvin, "It's a Magical World," page 99 ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 10:17:08 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-29-96 Dick: I second your appreciation of all Dave's work in bringing us the Digest. And of all the fine and interesting people who post in it! Scott: The single-volume LOTR is a fairly weighty tome. I like the three-volume hardcover edition (the way it was published originally) best - easier to read than the PB, easier to handle than the single-volume HC. And I agree with you that SKY ISLAND is Baum's best book. (Although LOST PRINCESS OF OZ and ZIXI OF IX come close.) I agree with you that the Autumn BUGLE is the best I've seen so far (I wasn't a member in 1976). I wasn't sure, though, if I might be prejudiced because (a) it's the first one I've had anything published in, and (b) it had a favorable review of my book in it. ;-) I haven't seen the Shirley Temple BLUEBIRD; I did see a remake of it from the early '70s sometime, with Elizabeth Taylor, that I didn't care much for. (I suspect that this may have something to do with the fact that the Maeterlinck play they were based on wasn't very good, either - or at least I was unimpressed when I read it.) Tyler: There are several issues of THE BEST OF THE BAUM BUGLE, covering different time periods. As I recall, the latest one currently available goes up to about 1969. They are collections of articles from the BUGLE, and not indexes. Melody: Whereabouts in Tennessee is the Lost Sea? Since my mother lives there, I visit Tennessee quite often. I think I vaguely remember seeing signs advertising the Lost Sea, but don't recall where. It might be something to do when I'm there if it's not too far from Murfreesboro. Yes, Mary Russell has a temper - but after all, whatever you think of evil characters, flawless characters are rather boring. And Mary has not quite turned 21 at the beginning of A MONSTROUS REGIMENT OF WOMEN; she's a teen-ager through almost all of BEEKEPER'S APPRENTICE. Some allowance needs to be made for her youth. (And MONSTROUS REGIMENT - now out in PB - is at least as good as BEEKEPER'S APPRENTICE, imho.) While I agree with Simone Weil that real evil is not interesting but imaginary evil is, I think this is mostly due to the fact that it's rare for a real person to consider himself/herself evil. I doubt if even Hitler, or Stalin, or Idi Amin thought of themselves as evil. They were doing what they did because they thought it was right (however perverted their idea of "right" was). It's only in fiction that you get characters going into soliloquies about doing nasty things from nasty motives (as Ruggedo frequently does). Because this is unlike anyone the reader has ever encountered in real life, it's interesting. Writing a virtuous character who is unlike anyone the reader has met is much more challenging - not that it can't be done, or hasn't been, but it's not as easy. Joyce: I'm not sure if I've ever even heard of THE WONDERFUL GARDEN, and I'm almost sure I've never seen a copy. It isn't listed as one of her works in any of the Nesbit books I've checked. I'll have to keep an eye out for it. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 10:47:15 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dear Ozzy Digesters: Thanks to all who responded re: the index for "The Baum Bugle". I appreciate your feedback. I think in the back of my mind I knew there was a "paper" index for some of the Bugles now that you reminded me. I would really like to see the IWOC, or someone, compile an updated version of the Bugle on CD-ROM, though. I work at Ohio State University Libraries, and trust me when I say, this type of access to users/researchers is a must. In fact, CD-ROMs are actually falling by the wayside only to be replaced by WWW access. Case in point, many of our paper and CD-ROM subscriptions for titles are being cancelled because they are accessible via WWW. This is especially true with major publishers such as Academic Press and Elsevier. So, this may be something to consider when designing an Oz CD-ROM/WWWsite. Access to users will be critical. Also, another important variable to consider re: the success of this Oz CD-ROM [IMHO] should include the ability to do keyword searching. I hope I don't come across as though I'm lecturing but, the idea of having access to something like this excites me, whether it be for "The Baum Bugle" or for Dave's proposed project. And, as is probably the case with many of you, I would like to see it done as good as possible. Just my 2 cents! Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 09:38:54 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: wizard of oz cross stitch book Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' Larry, There was one available a few years ago with MGM movie designs. I have = it somewhere, but my collection is all in boxes and I wouldn't know = where to start looking. Perhaps some of the Ozzy Digest subscribers = would know the specifics. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot ---------- From: larryk@forbeshealth.org Sent: Friday, December 27, 1996 8:55 PM Subject: wizard of oz cross stitch book Does anybody know of a book for me with the Wizard of Oz patterns? = Please let me know thanks for your time larry ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 18:31:52 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest *please post* I think this is the next one--I've lost track.... ******WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR "PATCHWORK GIRL" AHEAD******** Day 1 - Ojo and Unc Nunkie eat last bit of bread Day 2 - Ojo & Unc leave in morning to visit Dr Pipt - arrive at 2 PM - Dr Pipt finishes the Powder of Life - Ojo mixes Scraps' brains - night with Pipt & Margolotte Day 3 - After breakfast they bring Scraps to life - Margolotte & Unc petrified - the party leaves in search of a charm - they leave the blue forest at sundown - night in Voice's cottage Day 4 - They meet the Victrola - Foolish Owl & Wise Donkey - Woozy - they find the Yellow Brick Road - capture & release by Shaggy Man - night in deserted cottage Day 5 - The party encounters the sliding road - Chiss - they reach the barrier at the Munchkin/EC border - dinner at farmhouse - Ojo picks the 6-leaf clover - he is arrested as they enter the EC - Ojo has supper w/Tollydiggle, spends night in jail - Shaggy has dinner w/Ozma, Wizard, Dorothy & Scarecrow - night in palace Day 6 - The trial of Ojo - spends afternoon w/Dorothy, night in palace Day 7 - Reconstituted party spends night at Jack Pumpkinhead's home, "a day's journey from the Emerald City" Day 8 - "It was a two-days' journey from Jack Pumpkinhead's house to the edge of the Quadling Country" - first night in Winkie field ("slept on the broad fields, among the buttercups and daisies") Day 9 - "Toward evening of the second day" they meet the Tottenhots - night in Day 10 - The party meets Mr Yoop - Toto captures the Hoppers' Champion - Ojo gets water from dark well - night with lazy Quadling Day 11 - Morning on Trick River - arrive at Tin Woodman's castle in late PM - night at castle Day 12 - The party leaves for the EC - Unc Nunkie & Margolotte released from enchantment ****************END SPOILERS***************** ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 18:26:32 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Poll: If I haven't said so before, the poll is a cool idea and I would respond. Davy Jones: At least nobody thought this was started by Davy Jones of the Monkees! :-) Scott: Yes, indeed. _Sky Island_ is a truly excellent work. I've owned my copy for over 20 years. When I got it (age seven) I had already read the first six or so of the FF, so I already knew Button-Bright and Polychrome. I knew of _The Sea Fairies_, where Trot and Cap'n Bill were introduced, and I searched for it for years. I got it from BOW, but it was not nearly as good. Speaking of this, I found another reference to the magic number. In the main room of the suite for the Six Snub-Nosed Princesses, there are 47 windows. Melody: Thanks for the quote on evil. It's very true. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:59:06 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Linda >I believe Wisdom Quest only makes products for the Mac platform... YES!!!!! I can't believe it. Finally something us poor appleorphans aren't shut out of. Melody - It arrived Saturday. Thank you. Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 18:03:34 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: More Ozzy stuff Those of you who have been watching the news of late may have heard of the storm that's hit here in Seattle. Laura and I are fine, but snowed in for a while, so of course I have nothing better to do than ponder all issues Ozzy: Remember a while ago when people were saying, "I seem to recall seeing a review of 'Queen Ann in Oz' in the 'Bugle'?" This is how bored I was today, I looked. I checked the "Bugle" for the past six years, before it was even published, and it's not there. There are, in fact, very few Emerald City Press books reviewed, which could strike me as being part of an anti-BOW bias on the Oz Club's part, if I subscribed to such silly theories. But what galls me about no "Bugle" review of "Queen Ann" is that when it was still just a manuscript, it actually won a Research Table award for fiction at Ozmapolitan, I believe. C'mon, it's good enough for an award, but not a review? BTW, one little nit I'd like to pick at is the number of people who spell it "Queen Anne in Oz" (note the extraneous "e" on the end of the title character's name). I can understand the confusion if this had been the first book about Queen Ann -- but Baum consistently spelled her name "Ann" (no e) in "Tik-Tok of Oz," and I'm sure most readers of this Digest are familiar with THAT book! (Still, later Oz authors have had a tendancy to misspell Betsy, Nonestic, Gillikin, and other names, so I shouldn't be too surprised or annoyed.) So, have you all checked out the new graphics on my web page? Do you enjoy them? Good, good. I need some ideas now, please, for some images for my main page (the first one you see when you type in the URL below). Can anyone suggest a picture from an Oz book, preferably one in public domain, to represent Links, and one for "Mail Me"? I thought about a picture of the posties from "The Laughing Dragon of Oz" for the latter, but my copy of "Laughing Dragon" is so fragile that I dare not try to put it through the scanner. --Eric "You know, I used to like snow..." Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:54:20 -0500 (EST) From: Mark K DeJohn <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Oz Digest From: Barbara DeJohn Hi Digesters I hope everyone had as nice a holiday as I did. I did get alot of great Oz stuff. I did order it for myself so it wasn't much of a sur- prise but at least I was guaranteed to like it!! One of the books I ordered was "The Flying Bus of Oz" by Ruth Morris. It has the adventures of the authors children and their bus driver in Oz. It is very well written, enjoyable and I definitely recommend it. It gives added insight into the Oz language being english in that a French character finds that she can understand every- one as if they were speaking French. The only drawback is in the illustrations that were done by the twelve year old daughter. This is one case where no illustrations would have been better. Melody did the cover and it was great as usual. (if we buy lots of books then maybe we will get to see Dave's book published sooner) Bear- Thanks for offering to send me the digests fortunately they were all waiting for me. :-) Have a Happy and Ozzy New Year ! Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 10:00:47 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Song question?? David, I'm forwarding this question to the Ozzy Digest discussion group in hopes that someone can answer this for you. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot ---------- From: David Steckly Sent: Monday, December 23, 1996 8:54 PM To: info@ozclub.org Subject: Song question?? I realize that this is a strange question, however, there has been a instrumental guitar playing of Somewhere over the Rainbow. Do you happen to know who the performer and what the name of the album is called. Thanks -- D Steckly San Antonio Texas ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 13:59:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Myths about American citizens and the Red Jinn 1) No American citizen knows the second verse of "The Star-Spangled Banner"? Let's see what's in my memory... Oh say can you see By the dawn's early light What so proudly we hailed And the twilight's last gleaming Whose broad stripes and bright stars Through the perilous fight Over ramparts we fought Were so galantly streaming. And the rockets' red glare, The bombs bursting in air Gave proof through the night That our flag was still there. Oh say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave? (Thank you Mrs. Hirsh, my first-grade teacher. Now if only I could hit the high notes....) 2) On the Oz CD-ROM idea, I'd rather have everything online. Then again, I have Internet access but I don't have a CD-ROM drive. 3) On Button-Bright and Trot, Barry and I have assumed (though haven't written anything that touches on this subject) that Trot was orphaned between _Sky Island_ and _The Scarecrow of Oz_ and was adopted by or at least remained in the care of Cap'n Bill. We also speculated a bit about what happened to Button-Bright's parents, but hearing that Robin had already written about his family, we decided not to deal with that topic in _Lurline's Machine_. (Sorry, I don't remember off the top of my head what our speculations were.) 4) On the interestingness of good and evil, I always thought both good and evil could be boring or interesting. Considering that human nature allows for a huge number of distinct personalities, there is plenty of potential for originality (and hence interestingness) in both doing good and evil both in fiction and reality. Whether a person or author is actually original is a different matter. 5) Finally getting on to the second item in the title of this message, it has occured to me that the name of the Red Jinn (Jinnicky) in Hebrew decomposes into jinnIy qIy' which in the least disgusting translation is "jinni of barf". If anyone out there knows Arabic (which in _Lurline's Machine_ is likely to become the native language of the jann), please tell me if this unappealing translation carries over, or if at least there is an alternate translation that's more decent. (I admit this is probably not what Thompson had in mind when she invented the name. Fortunately no Imaji name has accidentally had such a bad meaning; the worst I've seen so far is Ojo, which means "grief", which at least may be connected with his original cogomen "the Unlucky".) Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 01:00:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Mad Reviewer Strikes Again Greetings. I have managed to obtain yet another Oz book via ILL (and I'm getting to the point of scraping the bottom of the barrel), and I finally have time to review it. Today's victim is: _Invisible Inzi of Oz_ by Virginia and Robert Wauchope. ***WARNING: ENTER SPOILER MODE*** This book is probably the only Oz story ever to be "recieved" via a Ouija board, and as such its quality is far better than I'd expect. Other than that, this book is mediocre. The most disturbing problem is that the characters keep acting out of character; Dorothy acts like Volkov's Ellie ("Being a little girl who loved pretty things..."); the Scarecrow doesn't fear fire; Scraps panics at the sight of fire, and her poetry sounds like someone else's; according to the date of the story (HACC 1926), Ozma should be in wimp mode, but she's closer to her Baumian depiction; Glinda is robbed and sends a message to _Ozma_ asking for help. The plot structure reflects such perversions of character; I wish I could say more on the subject, but that would spoil too much. The verdict: two stars. ***END SPOILER*** Tyler, feel free to add this review to the appropriate page. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 31, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 15:41:12 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Ozzyness I have been long separated from the Digest because of Winter vacation. Actually I wrote an entry for the Digest last week, but my mailer wouldn't send it. As you all know by now, the Fall 1996 BAUM BUGLE has been sent, and it includes reviews, some of which originated here in the Digest. Although the Winter BUGLE is essentially complete, I am starting to need reviews for the Spring 1997 issue. If you have something you would like to review, or if you know of something that should be reviewed in the BUGLE even if you do not want to write the review, please contact me (steller@pittstate.edu). Sometimes people promise to do reviews but do not come through in time. (I was guilty of that myself art least once in the old days). There is a BIG Ozian auction in the near future. Jerry Tobias, who was one of the early members (but not one of the first) has decided to sell of his collection through the Pacific Book Auction Galleries in a sale which will take place on January 16 (1:00 P.M.) in San Francisco. There are 314 articles ranging from an autograph letter by Baum (expected to see for $3000/5000 to a complete run of THER BAUM BUGLE 1957-1995 ($500/800) to original art work by Neill, Denslow and Martin. If you would like to see the catalogue for the auction for free (unillustrated) check out http://www.nbn.com/pba/current.html#123. I wished everyone a Merry Christmas on my lost [that is not a typo] posting, so now I wish you all an Ozzy New Year. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 08:44:44 -0500 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Digest I have been working on a Bugle CD-ROM for Windows, though somewhat stagnant in recent months, due to various hardware problems. Lots of screens and the framework have been generated, but I was having trouble with the Visual C++ serialization functions (I'm still trying to figure out why they don't use standard file I/O). A big hold up is scanning the data--although recent years are already in files, scanning in a Bugle in a usuable format (separate files for each article and for each picture, eliminating columns, etc.) is extremely slow. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 17:13:55 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-30-96 Well, we all know now that Aaron is a true, red-blooded American, since he thinks there is only one verse to "The Star-Spangled Banner." --Eric "Yes, there are more verses, but nobody has to sing them before ball games, so nobody knows about them" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### "Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!" --Calvin, "It's a Magical World," page 99 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:04:54 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-30-96 References: <01IDMQJE1CRM8Y89GZ@delphi.com> Yo There! In the last few _Digests_ there have been favorable references to _Sky Island_. Is there a source where this can be purchased? You know, finding this group is a revelation. I had no idea that so many people had the same fascination with the OZ books that I have. Thanks, Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:07:38 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls If there is anyone on the Digest who doesn't have the Oz movies, I have found an inexpensive source, if you can't get them from friends. It is Critics' Choice Video 1-800-367-7765. They have: Return To Oz $12.95 WOZ $14.77 WOZ On Ice $14.95 WOZ Deluxe Edition CD Set $31.95 No, I don't own any stock in the company. I would guess most of us have vacuumed them up out of the free air, but you never know. This place has 58,000 movies besides what is in their catalog, but you have to pay a little to have them look one up. Get their catalog for details if you are interested or ask me. David - The possible fact that Hitler, Stalin, and Idi Amin were unable to see that there acts were evil does not change the fact that they were. Unfortunately, currently we have a lot of psychotics running around loose, thanks primarily to our out-of-control legal system. I'm not sure I got the point you were trying to make? Aaron - I always thought Ojo was taken from the Spanish - eye. Melody/David - Pant! Pant! I'm trying to catch up with you. I am almost finished with Beekeeper's Apprentice. Will share thoughts off line. Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:11:52 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-30-96 Aaron: I have not written anything about Button Bright's parents. Even if I had, you'd be welcome to do your own thing. Poll: coming soon! Eric: Instead of publicly blaming IWOC (yeah, that's how it translates--as blame, I mean), why not just write Steve Teller, the Review Editor of the _Bugle_? Happy New Year, everyone. And, Dave, thanks again for making 1996 brighter for us all with the DIGEST. I'm gonna turn off my Mac now and continue with LOTR, even though I'm starting to feel guilty about not working more on the Oz book. Thanks to all of you who have encouraged me in my efforts. David, I have no plans to enter it in the IWOC contest. How could I? I'm one of the judges! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 00:13:18 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Aaron: Your review has been added, and I may update the page soon. Ken: I'm not sure, but I couldn't find a log of _Emerald City_. You may have skipped that one. Eric: Glad to hear you're OK in Seattle. My dad lives in Bellingham, so he knows all about snow. Also, my _Laughing Dragon_ is probably about as fragile as yours. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 02:28:05 +1100 From: Sunny Koh Subject: OZ CD-Rom References: <01IDMQJE1CRM8Y89GZ@delphi.com> Hello All, Sorry if any messages were send to me and were not reply, I was in hospital for a week. I'll try to get the web site up with the Aaron's text (thanks a lot) by today or tomorrow. The address would be www.home.aone.net.au/~sk/oz/ But this is unconfirmed yet. On the subject of the CD-Rom, I have been looking into putting OZ on CD-Rom for some time now. We find that the main reason why we didn't go into making one yet would be the cost. It would cost arround $1000 dollars to make the master and $2 each per CD with the min of 1000 copies. Then there is a question of other costs. But the first thing is to understand what we want to put in the CD-Rom?? I can make CDs myself with a few PD text files inside and sell it to people who want it but we should be aiming for more. I can talk to a few people but, the main thing is to get down a list of things we want in the CD. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Sunny Koh Business SunnyKoh@t130.aone.net.au Personal sunnykoh@tmba.design.net.au sunnykoh@ozemail.com.au Mailing List d9530021@helios.usq.edu.au ====================================================================== Date: 31 December, 1996 13:06:24 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Oh dear! Three days of Digests to respond to! Well here goes... 12/29: DAVID H./CD-ROM: I'll go along with including the "Borderland of Oz" or "Baumgea outside Oz" books as E-texts on the CD-ROM...As for the illios, I think there is room for the B&W pics, and perhaps even for the color plates as well, if they are compressed as JPEGs. DANNY/OZ "ENCYCLOPDEIA" ON CD-ROM: An Oz "Encyclopedia" as Piglet Press has on their site would be a good idea... Perhaps they'd be willing to transfer it verbatim to the CD-ROM...I'd like though to expand such an Encyclopdeia to included some non-Canonical things like Zim and Locasta ( Dave ducks while Eric and other FF-purists fling the Wicked Witch of the West's fireballs at him... :) :) ) CURRENT BUGLE: One other thing I noticed about this new Bugle--Not only is it the best I've seen, but it's also the longest (40 pp.; 32 seems to be the standard length). TYLER/CD-ROM: Bios of Oz authors and illustrators and discussions (essays) about Oz are good ideas...Might this include a compilation of the Digest members' MOPPeTs? 12/30: JAMES W./CD-ROM: I agree that it should have a serach engine...That doesn't seem to be too hard...It might be good training for me in programming search trees (My programming teacher's comments on this important programming topic: "Figure it out yourself!") ANTHEMS: Speaking of National Anthems, does Oz have one? (It seems I remember some reference to one somewhere in the FF...) AARON'S REVIEW OF _INZI_: >("Being a little girl who loved pretty things...") Button Bright: And we guys are just a bunch of macho slobs who wear camo underwear and rip the feathers out of Orks, eh? :) >(HACC 1926), Ozma should be in wimp mode, but she's closer to her Baumian >depiction... According to the Grand Unified Ozzy Theories of Dave, Ozma was *never* a "wimp"...It was just a front to protect herself from Zurline and other wrathful fairies who (like RPT and some other authors) apparently feel threatened by a strong-minded fairy ruler who undermines those "higher" fairies' (and authors') authority... _Inzi_ must be a story in which Ozma slipped up and let her true self show through...Such slips happen much more frequently in my Ozzy writings; Ozma's leadership nowadays is coming across as dangerously efficent and effective... 12/31: DECLARE_SERIAL(COzzy_Digest): Nate wrote: > ... I was having trouble >with the Visual C++ serialization functions (I'm still trying to figure >out why they don't use standard file I/O). I too am struggling with the mysteries of Microsoft Foundation Classes... I guess Serialization is just the convention that they settled on, though I too am used to C/C++ standard I/O. SKY ISLAND: Bob Spark wrote: > In the last few _Digests_ there have been favorable references to >_Sky Island_. Is there a source where this can be purchased? Doesn't Books of Wonder sell it, or am I wrong? >You know, >finding this group is a revelation. I had no idea that so many people >had the same fascination with the OZ books that I have. Feels great, doesn't it? :) CHONOLOGIES: Tyler wrote: >I'm not sure, but I couldn't find a log of _Emerald City_. You may have >skipped that one. See the Digest for 12/21. General: OZZY THANKS: Thanks to everyone for their appreciation of the Digest! It makes it all the more gratifiying! :) OZ POLL: I'm ready and willing to participate in a poll...I E-mailed Robin privately with my ideas for questions... OZZY CD (MORE THOUGHTS): Some people have commented on the high cost of producing a master CD-ROM... Is it really that expensive just to cut the master, or does it include the cost of a "professional" (read "expensive") user interface that we may not necessarily want or need or can do ourselves...? Eric suggests that the CD-ROM shouldn't include original stuff by us-- I don't know how the rest of you feel, but for me, that would take all the fun out of it! I WANT us to be able to put our own creative juices into it! And so what if we don't agree? The CD will present opposing views then! True, we'll have to be selective on what issues we include, or else we may have enough material for 50 CDs, but I think it can be done. There are definitely some very fundamental issues that could be included like, "Do all HACC books have equal validity, or is the FF the only 'real' Oz?" And while I know I'm being egocentric, I admit I would like to see the debates that reflect on my own contributions to Oz -- Are ideas about a resurrected Good Witch of the North, Adepts with dynamic personalities, and an Ozma who is not only assertive, wise, and strong-minded but also is interested in marriage valid concepts or do they represent total satanic blasphemy (as I know all too well some of you believe)? "MAY YOU LIVE IN 'INTERESTING' TIMES": All this talk about "interesting evil" reminds me of the scene from _The Mary Tyler Moore Show_, when Mary is depressed by the failure of her documentary on an HONEST politician: Mary: That means that if it weren't for all the rotton things people do, we couldn't put on the news show...We should stop them on the street and say, "Thank you Mister Mugger"..."Thank you Mister Thief"..."Thank you Mister Manic"!...It's a lousy world Mr. Grant, and I am going to Africa to work with Shweitzer! Lou: Albert Shweitzer is dead. Mary: There--You see what I mean? Lou then points out to Mary that the reason the show flopped was NOT because it was about good rather than evil people, but because the show itself was made badly. I think the same can be said of the Oz books...If the characters themselves--good OR bad--are interesting, the book itself will be enjoyed. Zim for example is a new face in the Ozzy community who is both a very GOOD soul and is a very INTERESTING character! -- Dave ======================================================================