] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 1, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 10:02:44 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi again! I can certainly empathize with Gili's low profile of late. I've also been busy with my litter of puppies for the last 7 weeks, and until they're old enough (in another week or three) to leave for their new homes, they'll take up most of the time I used to use for the Digest and the like. But I'm sure she'll love it at Harvard! The consensus on translated names (now, as opposed to the time of Columbus/Colombo/Colon) seems to be not to do it, even with fictional characters where a pun is lost. Sometimes, especially for a young audience, the puns might be explained in notes by the translator (as was done with EMIL AND THE DETECTIVES, whose original German author, Erich Kastner, had given the characters very Dickensian names). On the other hand, most of the memorable Dickens characters seem to have names less dependent on their meaning than their sound (Ebenezer Scrooge, Samuel Pickwick, Nicholas Nickleby, Wackford Squeers, Fagin, Uriah Heep, Wilkins Micawber) and even the names with English meanings can be largely irrelevant (what does David Copperfield's career have to do with copper? Oliver Twist's character certainly isn't twisted, even if his life is). Besides, Shakespeare's names and dialogue also used puns in languages other than English. (Note the French coversation in HENRY V, though admittedly a lot more English speakers then than now knew French--including slang terms not likely to be learned today even by high-school students who take French.) A MIDSUMMER NIGHT'S DREAM may include another off-color example...since "ass" does mean "donkey" but also has another meaning in modern America. Did that go back to Shakespeare's time? I've heard not, but I'm not sure that it's complete coincidence that the ass's head was magically given to a weaver named Bottom... Well, it's time I talked about Oz, isn't it? Very sorry to hear about the loss of the legendary Emerald City. But as far as Glinda goes, I stick with my original conception...which seems particularly appropriate for what's been described as an "American fairyland." One distinction between the European and the American tradition seems to be that the Europeans emphasize heroes who are born to greatness, whereas Americans tend to prefer those who come from humble backgrounds and achieve success on their own. Of course Oz and Baumgea are European enough to have hereditary monarchs, but instances of humble people rising to those thrones are common in Oz (the Tin Woodman being the most famous example) and elsewhere in Baumgea (John Dough, King Bud...). Europeans who rise from humble backgrounds tend to be rightful or temporarily humbled rulers like King Arthur, and Baum followed this tradition with Tip/Ozma, but in most other cases (as with Randy of Regalia) it was Thompson who took this more European approach. And so it is with Glinda...she's a mortal (well, a partial immortal, but only because she's presumably an Oz native) who had both skill and study to bring her to the level of power she enjoys today...not to mention teaching enough of it to the Wizard to make him a true and powerful magician. As has been noted, Baum always makes this distinction, and we can write off Thompson's one-time statement that Glinda was a fairy as easily as we can her other statement that the Woozy was made of wood (categorically denied in print by Baum, who should know). Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 10:42:03 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-30-96 Steve: That's a distinct point in favor of the Universal Translator in Oz - not FLYING BUS, which isn't FF, but the Winkie who lost the ability to understand the speech of animals after cruelty to animals. If the animals (and Ozites in general) were really all speaking English, it would be difficult for the Tin Woodman - who isn't a magic-worker - to stop him from understanding animal speech while he remained able to understand humans. But if there's a Universal Translator, then it's quite likely that Ozma might have given the quadrant rulers the power to cancel its action. (It would be interesting to see what would happen if, say, Dorothy encountered that Winkie...) Ruth: The Munchkin king in the ROAD parade might conceivably have been Cheeriobed, but I think it's pretty unlikely. There's no evidence that I recall in GIANT HORSE that Cheeriobed had even met Ozma. (Though there must have been some communication between the Sapphire City and the Emerald City after Ozma's accession, or the Ozure Islanders wouldn't have known about the three mortal girls who lived in the EC.) Shaggy: Well, I knew that "Mercator" meant "merchant", and that his real name was a German word meaning "merchant". "Kaufmann" was the one that occurred to me, but I added the "something of that sort" because the Germans had more than one word for "merchant" and I didn't remember for sure which one Mercator had originally borne. So OK, it was "Kramer". Dick: Eric lives in Washington, not Oregon. But it's not that far, so I'm sure he's already snapped up that Denslow-signed WIZ... :-) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 17:53:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: MGM Grand article citation The citation for the MGM Grand article giving information about how the Emerald City was created is as follows: Periodical: TCI, formerly Theatre Crafts (this is how it appeared on the article cover sheet I received. It simply indicates a "title change" in library jargon.) Date: 05/94 (pardon me, I was wrong when I initially send the article was written in 1993. The MGM Grand didn't open until Dec.1993. Which means this exhibit was less than 3 years old!) Volume: 28 Issue: 5 Pages: 44-46. I found this citation on the CD-ROM reference database: General Periodicals Ondisc. I am currently trying to locate one re: the mural(s) in the Oz Buffet. This article isn't much in terms of quantity BUT the quality is great in that it gives ALL the details on how the Emerald City was built. After having seen the Emerald City and the laser light show, I found this absolutely fascinating to see how it all worked. Jim:) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 18:22:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Bear: If you thought that the wigs themselves were silly, then I better not tell you what March Laumer does with them in _The Good Witch of Oz_. However, if a 40-ft tall 10 year-old girl walks up to your door and claims to be the king of the Munchkins, I'll accept full responsibility. Time in Oz: Despite the statement "anything is possible with magic", it is likely that the flow of time is constant. I'm sure somebody can come up with something. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 18:31:07 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-30-96 Robin: Thanks for the missing Oziana page! I loved it. Looking forward to the other item? Ruth: I do vaguely remember a mermaid story like the one you speak of. Perhaps it was the same one. David: Go ahead and send me that Ozma essay. And what does *foliori* mean? I cannot find it in the dictionary. Is it a misspell or a foreign word? Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 22:55:49 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Question Re: WIZARD script/WIZARD for sale/etc. Re: Steve Teller's question re: original WIZARD script: I seem to remember some time ago Robert A. Baum, Jr. sold many items from his collection, and one was an original WIZARD script circa 1901. I don't know who bought it--but it should'nt be too hard to find out--if it hasn't changed hands several times... (The price was well beyond my means). Re: Denslow presentation WIZARD for sale for $11,000 or so. I remember how enormous $1,500 seemed to me when Harvard (I believe) bought a Baum/Denslow presentation WIZARD for that price. Maybe $11,000 won't seem like such a bad price 25 years from now. (And we'll all be telling our grandchildren "I remember back when when you could buy a Denslow presentation WIZARD 1st for only $11,000...." Re: MGM GRAND One more thing: unlike my other 3-4 trips to the MGM Grand, Roger Baum wasn't there this last time. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 19:05:31 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Dad as a Subgenius Bear, I don't know how relevant this is (probably absolutely not), but when I read _The Hungry Tiger of Oz_, I couldn't help picturing Dad as that J. R. "Bob" Dobbs figure seen on Subgenius literature. (Who is this Dobbs person anyway?) If it wasn't for the copyright problems, I would love to use him in _Lurline's Machine_ somewhere, during which what little I do know of Subgeniuses would probably show up. In my wanderings around Philadelphia I have found some places with interesting Ozzy material. In addition to Border's Books (which I am not shopping at until the situation in which a woman was fired for union-related activities was fired is resolved; pity) and some places with occassional works (Baum-only) I found some interesting stuff at Fat Jack's Comicrypt at 20th and Samson. This place has, literally, everything imaginable, including Ozzy-related material. This includes _Oz Story II_, some Eric Shanower works (I got _The Enchanted Apples of Oz_, and I wish it was longer), the _Oz_ compilation _Mayhem in Munchkinland_, and various _Oz_ and _Oz Squad_ comics. On this let me recall a prediction I made a while ago regarding what would happen when they introduced the Shaggy Man and Scraps into _Oz_ (something like Rambo in rags and Catwoman respectively). I found the "Romance and Rags" issue, and while I could not look inside (inside a plastic bag sealed with tape), the cover showed Scraps and the Scarecrow smooching. True to the prediction I made Scraps was portrayed as a voluptuous, thin match to the statistically abnormal look known as the socially proscribed ideal body image for women. This is in contradistinction to the Neill illustrations (especially _The Wonder City of Oz_) and pretty much what you would expect from an overgrown rag doll made for indentured servitude. (You wouldn't expect Margollete to make a servant intentionally vixenesque, thereby tempting her husband.) Then again, a vixenesque Scraps is pretty much what you'd expect from a comic book where the Scarecrow looks like Ray Bolger on drugs, the Tin Woodman like a samurai, and the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger like Thundercats. (Sorry about the rant. If you're in Philadelphia...) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 20:00:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Robin - Glinda Celtic! Dave! Maybe Enya is Glinda visiting in disguise! :) Robin - >Glinda..... one of the few who always functions as a mature adult. Now it is clear why we both like her so much. :) For those in the SF Bay Area/Sacramento - Wizard of Oz on Ice - will be at San Jose Arena on Oct. 23-27, Arco Arena in Scramento on Oct. 30 - Nov. 3, and the Cow Palace near San Francisco on Nov. 13-17. Unlabored greetings to all, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 22:22:09 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: The Wizard as Ballonist Bob, This is a fascinating account, and I am at a loss to say whether or not Baum modeled his character after Baldwin. He certainly was intrigued by the technological advances and popular figures of his day and wove all sorts of contemporary references into his stories. I'm passing your note on to other Oz enthusiasts for comment in hopes that they may be aware of more details. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot --- On Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:05:51 -0700 "Robert C. Southee" wrote: Dear OZ, I am doing research on a turn-of-the-century balloonist named Thomas Scott Baldwin, popularly know as Capt'n. Tom Baldwin. He was probably America's best know airman before the Wright Brothers got airborn, performing at fairs across the country with his balloons and dirgibles, and was the America's first parachutist -- from his own balloon. He was rather portly and a somewhat flamboyant showman who was known to exaggerate a good story now and again. Baldwin was born in Kansas, made his home base in California until the 1904 San Francisco earthquake destroyed his dirigible factory, then moved his operation to Hammondsport, NY, not far from Syracuse. It was at Hammondsport where he introduced Glenn Curtiss (who's motocycle engines he was using for his dirigibles) to flying. Curtiss, who went on to become a great heavier-than-air aviation pioneer, first flew in a Baldwin dirigible. My question to you is: Was L. Frank Baum possibly inspired by balloonist Baldwin to create his balloonist lead character -- The Wizard of Oz? Coincidentally, Thomas Baldwin was also played a major role in my own father learning to fly, in 1916. Your reply will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Bob Southee Annandale, VA -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: International Wizard of Oz Club E-mail: International Wizard of Oz Club Date: 8/31/96 Time: 10:22:09 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 22:44:08 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Amateur performance of OZ Derek, I'm sending your question to the Oz mailing list exploder handled by Dave Hardenbrook so that you can get a variety of responses. If Oz is one of your interests, you may want to add yourself to the list. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot --- On Sun, 25 Aug 96 17:45:04 -0700 Derek Webb wrote: My amateur dramatic society is proposing to stage Oz in March 1997. We aim to do these things to the highest possible standard that our limited facilities will allow. I would like to hear from anyone who is involved in a similar project to exchange ideas. Derek Webb -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: International Wizard of Oz Club E-mail: International Wizard of Oz Club Date: 8/31/96 Time: 10:44:08 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 00:09:42 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Re: RPT in the Fog about Science >Finally, RPT has a really foggy view of the physical world. On p.185, Ozma and >the airman are rising into the sky. "...the sky darkened....Night has fallen. >The higher we go, the faster time flies. It will be daylight in a few >moments....See, it is tomorrow already!." Now why confuse children with this >ridiculous explanation. Agreed, the science is silly. RPT was not writing science. One could look at the "daylight in a few moment's" statement to mean that if one goes high enough it might be possible for the sun to become visible as the horizon retreats, assuming one were not traveling at 180 degrees away from the sun. In that case earth would be "permanently" in the way. Were a "second" sunrise seen, it could be construed as tomorrow. That begs the point about time flying, unless one is speaking "relatively" (time flies when you are having fun) . Maybe RPT did not know about Einstein's theory of relativity , since this was before WW2 and such science did not get much exposure to the general public at that time. Regards, Ken ************************************************************************* "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long ...and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy." ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 2, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 09:37:19 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Tinkerbell's Foul Mouth Regarding meanings of "ass" in England, even until relatively recently (I cannot speak for today), the meaning equaling Yiddish _tuchus_ has been absent. In _Peter Pan and Wendy_, Tinkerbell calls people "You little ass," which would clearly be not proper for children's literature if the US meaning applied. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 07:41:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-30-96 > From: "James R. Whitcomb" > Subject: Wizard of Oz graphics > > Does anyone know where I might be able to obtain Wizard of Oz graphics on > the WWW? Are there any sites where I can download them from. I am > particularly interested in small items that I can use for buttons, bullets, > and bars. I recently saw a web site where someone used a small pair of Ruby > Slippers as bullets but, unfortunately, I can't seem to find it again. Once I get what's currently up on my web page updated, I hope to add a graphics library from which people can download public domain pictures. And I, too, recently saw those ruby slipper bullets, but I can't recall which page it was. You might be able to find it again by trying out my links page. > From: DIXNAM@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest 8-29-96 > > Bear: Imagine what Trevor would be asking for that 1st ed. > WoO if it were in pristine condition! And hold up on that check; isn't Eric > an Oregon resident? He probably ran right over with cash-in-hand. :-) I live in Washington (my co-author Karyl is an Oregonian, OTOH), but if I had $11,000, I could think of better things to spend it on. Like food. (But then again, there is no sales tax in Oregon...) --Eric "I REALLY, REALLY need to get to work on my page soon..." Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 12:49:50 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-31 & 09-01-96 8/31: Bear: It's pretty plain from all kinds of internal evidence that Oz is in a world where our physical laws don't apply. So the acceleration of time with altitude, although impossible in our world, might very well happen in that world. (It's no more far-fetched than climbing to the moon on a ladder, which Baum described in OZMA.) So if nobody but your mother, when she was angry, called you "Richard Bauman", what did your co-workers call you? "Dick?" "Rich?" "Rick?" I find it hard to believe that they called you "Bear," anyhow. Jim: Oh, OK, that's Maureen McGovern. Style's a little on the strident side for my personal taste (sort of like Streisand), based on the couple of songs you mention that I can remember. My taste in female singers runs more toward Julie London, Ella Fitzgerald, and Linda Ronstadt (when she's singing songs I like in the first place). Robin: As I recall, it was Ozma who invited Glinda to go with her to Lurline's council in MAGICAL MIMICS, rather than Lurline herself, but she did go. And I imagine the red hair has a lot to do with the Celtic "feel" of Glinda, since red hair is associated with the Celts. 9/1: Rich: I'm quite sure that the dual meaning of "ass" was in Shakespeare's mind; I don't know when the pronunciations of the words "ass" (donkey) and "arse" (rear end) converged, but it probably was around Shakespeare's time (at least in the south of England). And even if there was a distinction in the pronunciations, the words were close enough that I'm sure there's be an association. Melody: Ozma essay will ship to you today. *foliori* would have been a misspelling of a foreign word, which would make it even more confusing. But I just checked my message and what I wrote was _a fortiori_; either something was garbled in transmission to you or you misread the word. In any case, it's Latin for "even more so" (essentially; literally it's something like "from the stronger point"). Barry: What is Subgenius literature? David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 14:11:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest All: Monthly blocks of the Ozzy Digest are available thru August 96. David: That, IMHO, is the one weakness of the story in _Giant Horse_. How did this isolated kingdom get an "old history book" with Dorothy, Betsy and Trot? Regardless of your views of the HACC, Trot's arrival was at most 20 years before the story opens, hardly ancient history. The only explanation I can think of is that a bird brought them some books and other stuff from "outside". I continue to doubt that Ozma ever knew Cheeriobed as the King of the Munchkins, since she surely would have wondered what became of him after Quiberon sealed them up. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 18:39:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-96 Ass: Bless the O.E.D. It confirmed what I thought was so but wasn't sure of:"Ass" meant "an ignorant fellow, a conceited dolt" as early as 1578. You betcher Bottom Shakespeare punned! ;) Plug for '97 OZIANA: Melody has agreed to illustrate a story for it. Yay! All I have to do is to mail it to her.... The issue returns to the multi-story format. I'm aiming for it to be an error-free issue, if such a thing is possible. The printing error this time has given me gray hairs. I'm a redhead and they don't show too much, but they're there. I think I mentioned before that it's loaded with (what do we call ourselves?) DIGESTers. --R. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 21:11:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Rich - More favorite Dickens names - Mr. Gradgrind, Mr. Choakemchild, Dr. Prunesquallor, Mr. Flintwinch, Mr. Barnacle, ah some of the names are better than a picture. Tyler - The flow of time may be constant, but Ozma and the airman traveled along the flow at a faster rate than the rest of Oz! At least according to RPT :) Barry - The only Dobbs I know about was Jimmy Stewart as in "It's A Wonderful Life." I think. What's subgenius literature? Puzzled once more, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 22:08:53 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-96 On the Internet, there is a cartoon by Windsor McCay from Dreams of the Rarebit Fiend, featuring a jealous suitor calling his rival a "tin soldier." Then the jealous suitor proceeds to pound the guy into sheet metal! Apparently, being a "tin" anything was an insult in Baum's time. Exactly what insult WAS meant? That the person was phony? Cheaply built? Or both? Don't have the URL for that cartoon, but I reached it by searching for "Rackham", as in Arthur. Windsor (who was a favorite cartoonist of Baum's) was in this Web page with Rackham. So try "Rackham" to see if you can find the same Web page I did. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 3, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 11:11:07 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-02-96 Tyler: Since we know that the gulls were frequent visitors to the Ozure Islands, I suppose it's not unreasonable that they might have brought books in - though why, if they did that, the islanders never asked them to take a message to Ozma asking for help is another question. (OTOH, the islanders, with the exception of Philador, didn't seem to be terribly bright. Maybe they'd had some circlets they'd lost...) Robin: "Ass" meaning an ignorant person is clearly an extension of its meaning of "donkey" (though this is something of a slur on the species, which is much more intelligent than its relative the horse - despite the oxymoronic phrase "horse sense"). The question is whether the convergence in pronunciation with the old word "arse" ("ers" in Chaucer, as I recall), which led to the mildly vulgar meaning common in American English today, happened in time for Shakespeare to have had it in mind in MND. My guess is that it did, but I don't know for sure how far back it was when the Southern Brits started dropping their "r"s except initially or between vowels. Good news that Melody is illustrating a story for the '97 OZIANA! Ken Cope's work for this year's was excellent, by the way, as was the story. ***********MILD SPOILER FOR 1996 OZIANA*************** I was a bit puzzled, though, at Speedy's age combined with statements about "a space lab that flies through the sky". The latter presumably refers to Skylab - at least, that was the earliest space lab - which would place the story in the mid-Seventies at earliest, though Speedy must have been born in 1920 at the latest and would have been fiftysomething - not what one usually calls a "young man". (And a bit long in the tooth for a physically-18 Gureeda, one would think...) Oh, well, it's not FF or even HACC material, so it doesn't matter. **********END SPOILER****************************** Melody: I expect that cartoon was alluding to the popular fairy tale (by Anderson, I think), "The Steadfast Tin Soldier". But yes, "tin" was a synonym for "cheap" as recently as when I was a kid. I remember, for instance a joke about "What time is it when two Model T Fords are going down the road one behind the other?" "Tin after tin". (Actually, tin is a relatively expensive metal by weight, but the fact that it's easily worked and can be beaten very thin made it a popular material for cheap toys and the like.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 13:49:05 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-96 Dear Barry: I hate those nasty "Oz" and "Oz Squad" comics, too! Yuckkkkk! Who needs harsh reality (or unreality!), anyway? Comic book creators have totally forgotten that reality has its nice side, too. Bought an issue of Oz Squad once, but no more. (Rant, rave, foam, gnash, gnash!) ):-( ):-( ):--( Hope I never stoop to writing material comparible to the above. My writing philosophy is to acknowledge harsh reality without dwelling on it. Dave: You lamented that "Aladdin and the King of Thieves" focused too much on violent action and not enough on the main event--Aladdin and Jasmine's wedding. I agree. It's a disturbing trend in entertainment of all sorts. One writing article I read long ago advises writers to cut their story short after the climax. Indeed, there is a disturbing trend to let the reader suffer with characters through almost an entire book--then rudely stop the story short of the joyful part, dismissing it with, "And they did have a party, celebrate, got married, etc.." The writer of said article so much as claims nobody is interested in the characters' happiness. Well, I am! When I've suffered with fictional characters through an entire book, being cut off from celebrating with them makes me feel cheated. So yes, I agree with you, Dave. The Disney folks should have counteracted the bad effect of the ruined version of Aladdin's wedding by lingering over the fine, unspoiled joyous wedding at the end. Does anyone else besides Dave and I feel the same way? In comics of the 70's it seemed that Marvel superheroes could not relax and enjoy themselves without some villain showing up to spoil things. This "killjoy trend" has snowballed until comic-book characters don't seem allowed, or even capable of, any happiness or joy whatsoever. When even the heroes on the covers look incredibly evil or totally stessed-out, something's awry with the people who create them. Personally, I'd be afraid to marry or befriend anyone who enjoyed putting his fictional creations through relentless torture 'cause I'd be afraid he'd do that to ME! That's why I like the Oz books. "A merry heart doeth good like a medicine, but a broken spirit drieth the bones." Despair and hopelessness can kill! That's why I wonder about people who like to wallow in it or sell it. Dave Hulan: Thanks for the essay, Dave! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 15:08:01 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-02-96 Bear: Sorry, Jimmy Stewart's character in "Wonderful Life" was George Bailey. I couldn't say if he ever played anyone named Dobbs (probably), or if you were conflating Elwood P. Dowd, from "Harvey", with the title character of "Mr. Hobbs Takes a Vacation". Melody: "Tin" doesn't have to be a generic insult. Calling someone a "tin soldier" is like calling them, um, well, a "straw man". (By George, have we stumbled onto something here?) A tin soldier is (or was) a child's toy, good only for shining brightly and standing at attention, not for any real fighting. -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 15:51:47 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-02-96 "Ass" for "Arse" is rare, and regarded as "American", even in modern Britain, and is not attested anywhere until long after Shakespeare's time. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 15:58:32 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-02-96 "Tin soldier" is not an insult for being "tin", at least not precisely. At the time, "tin soldier" was essentially interchangable with "toy soldier", which is enough of an insult in itself. Since Captain Fyter is not a toy, the fact that he is a "tin soldier" is no offense to him. Of course, "tin" would be an insult when applied to something that ought to be of some other metal. To speak of a "tin sword", for example, would be an insult, as it would be to speak of a "tin badge". But real soldiers are made of flesh and blood, not metal, so "tin" would be an off-target insult, if it were not for the "toy soldier" sense. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 16:13:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Melody - Tin, hmmmm. Little tin god, tin can, tin roof, tin ear, tin horn, tin Lizzie, etc. It definitely has a negative conotation. The implication is the cheapest metal from which something could be made. As an example, my dictionary defines tin horn as one who is cheaply and noisily pretentious. It would not be good to think of "our tin man" in this light. In contrast we have Superman, "the man of steel." Baum could have made our friend the "steel man." On the other hand, in Baum's day, a lot of things were being made of tin as it is inexpensive and easy to work. David - I was "Dick" through my early career, but "Bear" crept in and spread, especially when my boss was a close friend and would call me that in staff meetings. It has reached the point where I am surprised when someone doesn't call me Bear. Regards, Definitely Bear ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 15:28:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Dissing tin Melody wrote: >Apparently, being a "tin" anything was an insult in Baum's time. >Exactly what insult WAS meant? That the person was phony? Cheaply built? Or >both? A few years ago I read a book by Susan Strasser called _Never Done_, a history of the backbreaking housework that American women used to do. According to Strasser, one of the big breakthroughs for housewives at the end of the nineteenth century was the introduction of aluminum and steel cookware, both made possible by new refining and smelting technologies. The new cookware replaced cast iron (a good conductor of heat, but very heavy and constantly in danger of rusting) and tin (light, but flimsy, easily bent and dented, and not all that effective in conducting heat). In addition, anyone who has used tin-plated copper cookware knows how easily tin wears away. Hence all those derisive terms using the word tin: tinhorn, tin ear, tinny, tinpot (as in "tinpot steamer" in Conrad's _Heart of Darkness_ or Evita's furious reference to Buckingham Palace as "that tinpot castle"). Nowadays, ironically enough, tinware commands premium prices. When I bought a pate mold last year and commented on the expense ($40), the salesperson haughtily informed me, "Well, after all, it's *tin*." (Incidentally, the other two big late-nineteenth-century breakthroughs for the American housewife were the invention of the vacuum cleaner and--believe it or not--the rotary eggbeater.) The reputation of tin as a cheap, inferior metal no doubt explains the Tin Woodman's decision to have himself plated in nickle, in _The Land of Oz._ As far as I can see, however, in the later books he is back to a tin surface again. Does anyone have any explanation for this apparent inconsistency? ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 4, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 08:41:11 -0400 From: DAlbright1@aol.com Subject: Neill works Does anyone know anyone who is trying to build a complete checklist of John R. Neill's work? I have a copy of Helen's Babies that includes several signed Neill illustrations. It isn't on the last Baum Bugle checklist (Autumn 1977). I'd forward the info to a researcher if I knew of one. Jane Albright ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 14:05:36 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-96 Oh boy, oh boy, lots of stuff for me to comment on today, as well as ask new stuff. Sorry for the length: Jim: > [Maureen McGovern] also sang the theme song from one of the "Superman" > movies, I think the first one By "theme song", are you referring to "Can You Read My Mind?" (Not the title theme, which was a strictly (John Williams) instrumental). If so, then yes, it was the first movie. Herr Hulan: > Well, I knew that "Mercator" meant "merchant", and that his real name was a > German word meaning "merchant". "Kaufmann" was the one that occurred to me, > but I added the "something of that sort" because the Germans had more than > one word for "merchant" and I didn't remember for sure which one Mercator had > originally borne. So OK, it was "Kramer". Ah, yes, "Kaufmann" I remember once in Middle School German a dialogue which involved an "import/export Kaufmann" At least we can be thankful that Mercator first name wasn't Cosmo. Rich Morrisey: > (what does David Copperfield's career have to do with copper? Right. Everyone knows it's about magic and Claudia Schiffer. > Oliver Twist's character certainly isn't twisted, even if his life is). I thought it was a heavy martini drinker, and was constantly deciding "olive or twist?" to garnish it. Melody: > Bought an issue of Oz Squad > once, but no more. (Rant, rave, foam, gnash, gnash!) ):-( ):-( ):--( I can see it now: a blurb on the next Oz Squad "Brought forth rave reviews from noted Oz writer/illustrator Melody Grandy" > I agree with you, Dave. The Disney folks should have counteracted the bad > effect of the ruined version of Aladdin's wedding by lingering over the > fine, unspoiled joyous wedding at the end. Does anyone else besides Dave > and I feel the same way? > I'll let you know after my mother-in-law sends us the tape, sometime this week. OK, on to new stuff: OZ ON 45s: Got *two* old references to Oz on 45s this weekend. One was on Allen Lee's "Forgotten 45's" syndicated radio show. He played a 1958 recording of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" by a doo-wop group called The Channers (?). And also, I found this weekend, while looking for a record to play on Sunday morning breakfast (don't believe in them new-fangled CD's either for my ears or my computer :-) ), and found a Disneyland 45, LG-786, with the song "Happy Glow" from Disney's "Scarecrow of Oz" It must have come from my wife's childhood collection. Can someone tell me anything about the movie, and/or how much this 45 might be worth? (condition is only fair) (I have not listened to it yet). Strangely enough, my record player used to belong to fellow digester Rich Morrisey. OZ IN BALTIMORE: While trying to find someplace in Baltimore County yesterday, discovered that there a "Yellow Brick Road" around here (connecting a mall and an industrial park, no side streets). Also, on the same map page (about 20 sq. miles) a small "Dorothy Ave.", a "Woodmans Ct.", and a "Lionhead Ct.". Within about 9 miles of these are also a "Quad Ave." and an "Emerald Rd." --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, still kicking himself for missing out on Delaware.... ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 16:34:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS Melody and Dave - Dittoes! My wife the therapist decided she needed us to watch "Leaving Las Vegas" for professional reasons this weekend. I didn't know anything about it so watched too. Let me disrecommend this movie. Afterwards I needed to read Oz for several hours to help clean out my mind. Eric - How about a job hunt status report? Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 16:24:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-03-96 David: Suspend your disbelief about Speedy's age, please. Yes, it's a problem, but the story was so good.... I guess I could/should have edited out the reference. The first instance of "ass" as "bottom" may well be Chaucer. Didn't he use it in "The Miller's Tale"? I'll have to check.(A few minutes later) Nertz! I can't check it at home. All I have is a modern English version which, even if it *does* use "ass," doesn't prove a thing about Chaucer's wording. Now, who do I know with a Caxton? Maybe a dictionary of American slang would help? The fact that the O.E.D. doesn't list it as "bottom" indicates what someone (Aaron, I think) has been saying all along, but my gut feeling is that Shakespeare knew and used the word that way. It certainly would be typical of his writing. This is really aggravating me. Can't any of us find where/when this stupid word showed up in the language with this particular connotation? Y'all did quite well with "tin." ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 17:48:40 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Tin and Nickel Gordon, I would assume Nick Chopper had himself nickel-plated over concerns of his surface wearing. Unless his body became able to grow back like those of ordinary people, he would eventually wear away until he fell apart. This concern is apparently real, since there is mention of other "artificial" people needing repairs. For example, the Scarecrow is mentioned as having the paint on his face regularly replaced, which indicates it does not regenerate as does the skin on a human face. Scraps is mentioned needing wear-related repairs also, such as resewing of seams (probably damaged due to stress) and having her shoes replaced in _The Magical Mimics in Oz_. It may well be that Nick Chopper was taking other measures to preserve himself. In _The Wonder City of Oz_, it is mentioned that he was wearing shoes which were removable, which may mean that the soles of his own feet were wearing thin. Meanwhile, derving from the latest Ozzy FAQ, will writing to Laumer at this time result in anything or is he still in Switerland or Mars or wherever he is when he's not in Florida? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 22:15:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest David: My only answer is that the birds (perhaps large ones) accidentally dropped stuff on the Ozure islands from time to time, one item of which was the history book with Trot, although it could not have been "ancient". Rin Tin Tin Woodman (hmmm, probably not): Anway, the idea of "tin = cheap" explains my memories of the phrase "not even a tin whistle". --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 22:21:04 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: MGM Jim and all: We knew the MGM Grand was planning to demolish "Oz" even as the surveys were being received. Since the committee members strongly prefer a convention location with an historic connection tied to LFB and/or the publication of The Wizard over a "fantasy" connection (Kansas or Omaha for example where there is nothing Ozzy that's tangible to support a convention program), the MGM -- wonderful as it was -- was not a choice location for those of us who have to figure out the logistics of a program. Though it would have been wonderful to not have to create our own Oz ambiance, we also hope that media attention can focus on the 1900 Wizard. With that soaring MGMish Emerald City as a stunning backdrop, it would have been quite a challenge to keep the "Baum" in any news coverage we might have generated. IMHO, we'll be shooting ourselves in the foot if we can't leverage the convention to let the public know about both our Club, and the centennial of America's favorite fairy tale. You are quite right that the MGM Grand isn't on the timeline. An oversight for which I am entirely to blame. I'm sure it was reported in a Baum Bugle and I should have picked it up. Jim VanderNoot needs to let me know the best way for us to update and correct the document. In the meantime, I'll add it to my list of things to add. I read the Denslow catalog from the Brandywine exhibit and have a growing list already. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 03-Sep-96 21:49:44 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things 1996 OZIANA: David H. wrote: >Oh, well, it's not ... HACC material, so it doesn't matter. Couldn't we make an exception with this, since it's a sequel to an FF book? MY WEB SITE: My refurbished Ozzy Web pages are now up and running! It now includes links to other Ozzy sites, a "History of Oz" page, and the latest version of the Ozzy Digest FAQ. Visit it, and tell me what you think! :) "OZ ON CHARON" UPDATE: I received another reply today regarding the "Campaign to Put Ozzy Names on Charon"...The reply came all the way overseas from Patrick Moore (a.k.a. "The British Carl Sagan"). He said that he is "a little wary of using non-mythological names" (even though non-mythological names are used on the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn's Mimas and Enceladus, and Uranus' Miranda, Titania and Oberon!), but that if Charon's discoverer James Christy is in favor (which of course he is), then "it must clearly be considered". It turns out that Moore is a member of the Nomclature Committee, which decides the naming of features on moons, and he said that he would bring our case before their next General Assembly for consideration. I will also contact them on behalf of the Oz Club myself. I hope, though, that we will get more responses of definite support from others whom I wrote to. So far, Christy, Ray Bradbury, and Astronomer Jay M. Pasachoff have given their support, but I am still awaiting responses from Carl Sagan, Martin Gardner, Harlan Ellison, L. Sprague de Camp, and Astronomer and "Project Ozma" founder Frank Drake. Of course, I will keep everyone up to date... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 5, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:38:43 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: Neill Bibliography For Ozzy Digest: Jane: As far as I know, Michael Hearn if the ranking bibliographer (for Denslow and Baum, as well as for Neill). Judy and I have already found 6 unrecorded Neill items (mostly magazine stuff) and always send Michael xeroxes. He has no e-mail, but can be reached at 18 W. 76th St. (Apt. 4B), New York, NY 10023 (212+580-9126) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 11:06:17 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-03 & 04-96 I had problems reading my E-mail yesterday - lost my connection to the host twice in the middle of reading a file - so I had to wait till Dave had a chance to send me yesterday's Digest again. And I'll be at a seminar in downtown Chicago the next three days, so you'll have smaller Digests to deal with until Sunday. :-) 9/3: John: The spelling "ass" for "arse" is rare in Britain, but the two words are pronounced the same today in Standard British English. If that was the case in Shakespeare's day then the pun would be pretty obvious. Gordon: I think there are references to Nick's nickel-plating in later books, but they aren't frequent. I'm surprised that the rotary egg-beater was considered that big a labor-saving device; once it was electrified, maybe, but I've known a number of people who thought it was just as easy to use a fork as a manual rotary egg-beater to beat eggs, even for making things like meringue. The vacuum cleaner, definitely, but I'd have thought things like the electric iron and the wringer washing machine would rank a lot higher on the list than the rotary egg-beater. 9/4: Robin: No real problem with the question of Speedy's age. It might have made things more consistent to change the reference to "flying labs in space" to "aircraft that fly across oceans" or something appropriate to a late-40s date (given that the rest of the events probably wouldn't be appropriate to an early-40s date, when Da Big Wah was on...). I think that was the only reference that implied a time for the story based on anything other than the characters' ages. I don't have a copy of Chaucer in the original Middle English either, but I'm pretty sure that when I read "The Miller's Tale" in ME that he used the term "ers". Barry: I think it's Sweden where Laumer is when he's not in Florida, but I don't know his current whereabouts. Dave: Could you give us the URL on your Web page again? I know it's back there somewhere in the old Digests I have, but finding it would be something else... And I don't recall a link to it from Tyler's or Eric's pages, though there may well be one. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:09:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest ********** SLIGHT SPOILER FOR A LAUMER BOOK ********** Gordon and Barry: The issue of the TIn Woodman wearing out was addressed in March Laumer's _The Ten Woodmen of Oz_ (which is a misnomer, since the ten men in question have nothing to do with Oz). His hips had given out entirely and his legs were gone. Nobody knew what to do, until it was decided, part by part, to replace him with new material. ********** END OF LAUMER SPOILER ********** Also, Mr. Laumer resides in Sweden when he is not in Florida. Dave and David: I am a little wary of making the Speedy story an exception, even though it appears to be an FF sequel. There are other OZIANA stories that are also sequels to FF stories, and this looks to me like a slippery slope. Chris and I decided a long time ago not to include OZIANA stories, since they are for the most part fanciful writings that rarely fit in with the FF. This is not to say that they are not good, of course. I have enjoyed reading many of the stories in that magazine. Oz on Charon: It's good to hear that you have at last contacted a member of the committee. I have a feeling about this... :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 14:48:31 EST5 From: Mike Burns Subject: Oz Kids on video This may be old news but anyway... Due October 1st on Paramount Home Video at $12.95 each. 5 tapes. Titles include Toto Lost in New York, Who Stole Santa?, The Nome Prince and the Magic Belt, Christmas in Oz, and Virtual Oz. Have a happy... Mike ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:38:53 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Ozzy Matters Shaggy Man: The SCARECROW OF OZ song you mentioned came from a Disneyland Record called THE SCARECROW OF OZ (which had Ray Bolger as the title narrator) based very loosely on the book. My copy of the record, which came with a fully illustrated story book, is at home; so I will have to check the details and get back to you later today (which means it will be in the same digest, probably. There were two other original Disneyland records, THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ which ends with the Tin Woodman marrying Nimmee Amee, and three other pairings: Woot and Polychrome, the Lion and a Lioness and the Scarecrow and a Scarecrowess; and THE COWARDLY LION OF OZ which had a completely original plot. I do not believe that any of these were intended for a film version. Cornerning Shakespeare's asses: The word "ass" appears 90 times in Shakespeare's works. In almost every case it means a dolt or a fool, or refers directly to the animal. In only one case does it seem to suggest the meaning arse (a word that never appears in Shakespeare), that is Hamlet's: "Then came each actor on his ass," which cerrtainly supports the meaning donkey but could be a double entendre. The word "arse" goes back to back to Anglo-Saxon times, but Shakespeare did not use it. Robin: Chaucer's spelling of the word (Miller's Tale 3735) was "ers" ("But with his mouth he kiste hir nakid ers / Ful savourly." The earliest recorded use of "ass" for "arse" was in 1860. Tin: Consider the word "tinsel" and the phrase "not worth a tinker's dam." Digressions from Ozzyness can be interesting. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 16:54:59 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Disneyland records There were actually four Disneyland records released on Oz stories. All four have music performed by Camerata. THE SCARECROW OF OZ with Ray Bolger was copyright 1965. It contained the song "Happy Glow" as well as "Over the Rainbow" and also an illustrated full sized booklet. It concerns the Jinxland portion of the book including Trot, Pon, Gloria, the Ork, Cap'n Bill (transformed into a grasshopper), King Krewl and the regular characters. It has one picture showing "Glinda and Dorothy watch the magic TV screen and see the Orks flying the travelers to OZ." This Album had the number ST-3930. The other three records are copyright 1969. THE COWARDLY LION OF OZ (ST-3956), says on the album "Based and the book by RUTH PLUMLY THOMPSON, but the story has nothing to do with that book. It concerns a wicked witch named Smarmy who has kidnapped Prince Paul and turned him into a marionette. The Cowardly Lion is sent by Glinda to save the situation. THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ (3992) contains Loons, a Hippo-gyraf [sic] and Mrs. Yoop as well as Polychrone, Nimmie Amee, and the regulars. It ends with a quadruple wedding. On the jacket it says: "Based on the book by RUTH PLUMLY THOMPSON."[!!!] The last of the recordings was THE WIZARD OF OZ [3957]. It does incorporate several songs from the MGM film, but Dorothy's shoes are silver, not ruby, and the Good Witch of the North and Glinda, the good Witch of the South are differentiated. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 14:01:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-96 just to let everyone know they are rerealising wiz of oz on tape again this time its thx style like lucas did with the star wars movies also says last time available this century hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 14:51:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Barry et. al. - The way some of you answer questions indicates to me that 1) You have incredible memories for tiny facts or 2) You have access to the Oz books in a computer somewhere so that you can search on key words. Please enlighten me/us. Searchingly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 17:27:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-96 > From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-96 > > And also, I found this weekend, while looking for a record > to play on Sunday morning breakfast (don't believe in them new-fangled > CD's either for my ears or my computer :-) ), and found a Disneyland 45, > LG-786, with the song "Happy Glow" from Disney's "Scarecrow of Oz" It > must have come from my wife's childhood collection. Can someone tell me > anything about the movie, and/or how much this 45 might be worth? "The Scarecrow of Oz," in this case, was not a movie, but a record, adapting the Baum story of the same name, and narrated by Ray Bolger. "Happy Glow" is, IIRC, the only song on the album. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 20:37:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: Miscellaneous Oz stuff Jane: Thanks for clearing up the choice for the Centennial Oz convention. As much as I like(d) the MGM Grand Oz themes, I agree that it would be nice to return to some place historical for the celebration. In my opinion, it would be wonderful to see the whole concept of Baum's life and his writing of "The Wizard of Oz" come full-circle by returning to its roots. I was going through some of my Oz stuff this evening and found what may be another item you might want to consider adding to your time-line(?) if it's not already there; I didn't see it. In Dec.1993, ca. 425 pieces of Oz memorabilia, collected by Nicholas Salerno, chiefly between 1970 and 1990, were presented to Arizona State University Libraries where it has been cataloged as a realia collection. His collection included commemorative and promotional material from the 50th anniversary celebration of the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer film. I never heard of Nicholas Salerno, so I don't know if this particular collection is of any significance based on who he was or not. My source for this info is from the OCLC database (#30560192). P.S. This time-line is incredible. I would like to commend anyone and everyone who has worked on it. Is there any plan to have it issued in print format to coincide with the centennial? If so, you've already sold at least one copy. To all interested in the MGM Grand Oz themes: I called them again this afternoon and spoke to public relations. Here's the latest and last scoop for a while. The Emerald City is being "stored" some place in the Grand Adventures Theme Park as it's being disassembled. There has been no final decision to totally eliminate it. I asked about other Oz themes and the person I spoke with said she didn't know. She said that there will be press releases from the Corporation that owns the MGM Grand whenever they decide what changes will be made. This is a 30 month project which just got underway in June 1996 and some of it is still in the planning stages. So, maybe all isn't lost in terms of the Oz themes. Jim:) ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 6, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:39:31 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: TEN WOODMEN ***********SLIGHT SPOILER FOR TEN WOODMEN OF OZ************ I must correct one statement Tyler made concerning this Laumer title. There are 10 woodmen from various parts of Oz who accompany Dorothy on a trip to the "real world." The Tin Woodman was suffering from EYDS (an obvious homophone for AIDS)--I think the name was an acronym for "Electroplated Yeoman's Disease of the Skin" but will not swear to it--brought on by air pollution from the outside world. Thus this book concerns several topical subjects: AIDS and environmental issues. ***************END SPOILER******************* By the way, Baum was interested in environmental issues. In AUNT JANE'S NEICES AT WORK, the neices get involved in a political campaign based on opposition to highway signs that hide the beauty of nature. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:56:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy DIgest David: The only link from my page is to Eric's, since he has links to just about every Oz page out there. I do not know if Eric has a link to Dave's page. Bear: If you go to the Piglet Press Home Page, I believe they have links to some of the Baum books online. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 10:07:12 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Regarding previous discussion of Cheeriobed as the King of the Munchkins -- it dawns on me that I never did print the article I wrote on the subject several years back anywhere. It's rather too long to contribute to the Digest, but I've typed it up with some revisions and sent it to the Oz Research Group for their fall (post office) mailing. There's a good deal of overlap between the Digest and the OzRG, but in case there are some here who would enjoy it and are not in it -- it's run by Andrea Kelman Yussman, 2800 Rockhaven Ave, Louisville KY 40220. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 13:43:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-96 Mike: Disney's "Scarecrow of Oz" was an LP. I guess they released "Happy Glow" as a single from that album. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 13:54:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-96 Tyler: While I certainly agree that no OZIANA story should be included in the HACC, I disagree that "many" of the stories in the magazine do not follow the FF. Most of them that I've edited (since '85) most certainly do follow the FF. If a story doesn't follow the FF pretty closely, I won't use it. Oz Kids: Thanks for the info, Mike. I'm glad they're almost out. We'll have to wait until '98 for the TV series, but at least we'll have the videos. Scarecrow record: I just read Steve's and Eric's responses to the "Happy Glow" query. Unfortunately, I answered the question yesterday and *just* got around to posting it...before I read their responses. I think it's pretty cool that you can just send a question out into the ether and have it answered fairly quickly. "Ers/arse/ass"--Thank you, Stephen. It had bothered me that I couldn't track the dam*ed word down. What source did you use for the dating of "Arse/ass"? I'll bet several of us would like to know where you found it. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 15:33:31 -0400 From: Homer Just a thought to Anthony Van Pyres: Not to be picky or anything, but I'm sure more than a few of us would appreciate it if you could manage to take thirty extra seconds and add some capital letters and maybe a period or two to your messages. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 17:46:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-96 From: Barbara DeJohn Hi Digest!!! I haven't had my computer for a few days so I am now catching up. I still haven't received the Oziana so I guess I will have to order it again. Perhaps the Ozure Islands have book trees that would give them history as it happens. It would not be an "ancient" book but maybe kind of old. I will be in Cape Cod for the next week. So if anyone knows of any Ozzy place to visit let me know. When I get the artwork for the t-shirts and buttons I will give you an update. Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 17:20:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-96 > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-03 & 04-96 > > Dave: > Could you give us the URL on your Web page again? I know it's back there > somewhere in the old Digests I have, but finding it would be something > else... And I don't recall a link to it from Tyler's or Eric's pages, though > there may well be one. There is not one yet, but I am in the process of upgrading the page, and there should be one soon. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 19:11:17 -0700 (PDT) From: ahclem@netcom.com (Ken Cope) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-96 Tyler Jones said: > I am a little wary of making the Speedy story an exception, even though it > appears to be an FF sequel. There are other OZIANA stories that are also > sequels to FF stories, and this looks to me like a slippery slope. Chris > and I decided a long time ago not to include OZIANA stories, since they > are for the most part fanciful writings that rarely fit in with the FF. > The foundation of the hack IS slippery slope. In arbitrarily imposing continuity retroactively where there was none to begin with, one has no basis more legitimate than subjective biases and repetitious personal pronouncement. While illustrating Umbrella Island in Oz, I had a good reason to read Speedy in Oz. It was the first time I thoroughly enjoyed a Thompson book. Still, her Oz has very little to do with the Oz I visit when I read Baum. Should I mount a campaign to have her work declared anathema and advise others not to read her work because I still don't enjoy it as much as my favorite stories? I recognize that for some people, Baum doesn't deliver the Oz fix that Ms. Thompson's type of tale does. Speedy screams for a sequel, and Umbrella was a respectable effort. One reason Oz is such a successful meme is that it invites completion in the mind of the reader; it fuels the visitor's imagination in just the way television does not. The result is frequently a writer, an artist, and in some cases, a Wogglebug. Christopher Tolkien's work with Middle Earth cannot be transposed to Oz. Oz won't be straitjacketed. You are welcome to amuse yourself and others with your hiccing and haccing, but I have enjoyed multiple and conflicting and inconsistent manifestations of Oz without this sort of painful pedantry filtering my enjoyment of diversity. I have use for neither an Ozian Legion of Decency nor a Ministry of Retcon. Have fun storming the castle! -- Ken Cope Ones & Zeroes SurReal Estate ahclem@netcom.com http://www.ozcot.com/ ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 08:17:59 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-96 Has anyone herad of a new book by Alicia Williams titled THE SCARECROW, THE LION AND THE TINMAN? The author will be signing in Columbus OH at the Media Play oon W. Broad St from 1-3pm on Saturday (Sept 7). Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Friday 06-Sep-96 10:19:28 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DISNEYLAND RECORDS: Thanks for the info. on those record verisons of Oz books...Tell me, did any onf those records have in them a certain Ozite...Perhaps you know her?...She's rather petite, er um...has dark hair with two big poppies... MY URL: Silly me! :) I told everyone to take a peek at my Ozzy Web site, and then didn't give the URL! It's: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Oz.html -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 7, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 15:06:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: egg beaters David, Susan Strasser wasn't saying that the vacuum cleaner and rotary egg beater were the all-time most important labor-saving devices, just the first two that dramatically improved the lives of women in the late nineteenth century. Other appliances were soon to follow, including--above all--the gas range and the electric stove, which supplanted the old cast-iron woodburning stove that needed to be tended from dawn to dusk and kept the kitchen at the heat level of a forge all day long. Incidentally, as a person who has done time beating eggs the classical way (with a wire whisk and a copper bowl), I am heartily in favor of not only rotary egg beaters but a big old heavy-duty KitchenAid mixer. And anyone who makes a meringue using a *fork* as an eggbeater ought to be in the Guiness Book of World Records. Robin: Here's my two cents worth (well, maybe one cent worth) on the ass/arse question. The two words have distinctly different roots in West Germanic, and in German they show up as Esel/Arsch, which could never be confused. I've asked a number of colleagues in the English department about this, and as several Digest members have indicated, the British pronunciation of "arse" as "ass" is rare and localized, so there just isn't the same kind of ambiguity about the term as there is in this country. Shakespeare experts I have spoken with agree with Stephen that Shakespeare didn't use the word "ass" with a double meaning of ignorant dolt and tuchus; but certainly the name Bottom resonates in that second direction. (There was some head-shaking amongst those Shakespeare scholars, incidentally, about whether Shakespeare would even use the word "arse": apparently he loved bawdy puns but generally avoided rough language. I was told to consult the complete works of Ben Jonson for a fuller understanding of sixteenth-century usage in this regard. Think I'll leave that task for someone else.) Maybe we can leave this thread now? Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 16:11:52 -0400 From: Homer Dave- I like your Oz page. Those pictures are neat. (Emerald City, Flathead Mountain) Did they come from a copmuter program or what? Also, I was thinking, and I realized that one of you Digesters might be my next-door neighbor. No need to answer if you don't, but does anyone live near Elk County, PA? Tony ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 16:41:40 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Where in the world is March Laumer? Thanks to all the people who took the time to tell me where Laumer was when he is not in Florida. However, I intended to ask if anyone knew IF he was currently there. (For those curious why, I recently pulled in some nice extra money in overtime and was thinking of putting a bit of it into a Laumer book.) Bear, I have all the Baum books online on disk somewhere, but as of yet I have not done a search through them for facts. contrary to what people say i have no problem with the way anthony writes it an interesting change from the usual style hugs barry eshkl adelman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 15:42:10 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: OZ & others Robin: My source for "ass" being cited as "vulgar and dial. sp. and pronunc. of ARSE" (1860), is the OED first edition), Volume 1, page 489, center of column 2. It is given as a separate entry but, strangely, the word is not in bold type. Dave: The Ozite of whom you inquire does appear in the recording THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ which (unlike the book) begins (and I believe ends)in the Royal Palace. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 19:18:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest II Other subjects: Uh, oh. I sense the HACC wars starting again. Let me try to defuse this immediately lest the digest explode again as it did in February and March. First off, let me tell you how the HACC started and why. The HACC (although originally it had no name) was started by Chris Dulabone and the prototype can be found in the back of the Buckethead book _Dagmar in Oz_. Chris wanted to list all Oz books that, overall, fitted in with each other to form a continuous flow of Ozzy history. He asked me to help him out with it. At first I objected, giving many of the same reasons that others have. That is, Oz consists of over two hundred books written by many people at the same time over the past 100 years with little or no knowledge of each other, added to the fact that continuity and inconsistancy with each other has never been a priority. Nevertheless, Chris convinced me that we could get pretty close and the modern HACC was born. We discussed the formation of it and set several ground rules, many of which can be found at my web site. The HACC has never been a demand that all Oz books be written a certain way, and it has never demanded that everybody conform to my vision of Oz and my vision only. The HACC is simply a collection of Oz books, that, to the best of my knowledge, form a reasonably consistent flow of the history of the Land of Oz. I realize that not everyone will agree that this is a good idea. Many people think that consistency cannot be acheived nor should the attempt be made. I have never suggested that certain material not be read simply because I disagreed with it, and if a book does not appear in the HACC that does not mean that I disapprove of it. Several non-HACC books are among the finest material ever written about Oz, such as the March Laumer books and Farmer's _A Barnstormer in Oz_. To those who call me an Ozian Legion of Decency, this is one of the most un-decent books ever written, yet I love it). I have read every Oz book that has ever been published, and I have enjoyed them all on their own terms as well as for their place in the Ozzy timeline. I have no problem with books that are different or go off on their own directions. They do not go into the HACC, but I enjoy them anyway. The HACC has nothing to do with censorship, forced continuity or a strait- jacketed view of Oz. It's main purpose is what I have always said it is: the best approximation of the history of the Land of Oz that can be acheived from a hodgepodge of books written by many different people, each with their own thoughts and opinions. The HACC is not the end-all and be-all of Oz. Each book can, and should, be enjoyed on its own terms as a simple story about a very special place. However, I do not believe that anything is wrong with an attempt to chain some of them together to create a big picture. While it is true that I have judged some books non-HACC-worthy, this means only that, in my humble opinion, that story does not fit in textually with the majority of Oz material. All of this can be summed up by saying that the HACC is just my attempt at creating something else besides just a collection of individual books. Nobody is "required" to agree with it, nobody is even "required" to agree that the HACC is a good thing, or even a feasible idea. All I ask is that the HACC be recognized for what it is, not for what it isn't. I welcome ALL Oz books, however they are written. Whether or not they go into the HACC is just one small item in the big picture. For example, I have been providing information and other ideas to a certain unnamed person who is writing an Oz book. One of his goals was to make it textually accurate enough to go into the HACC. However, he wanted to do several things with the book that would make it unable to go in there. What did I do? Did I rant and rave, and demand that the book be written exactly the way I wanted it to be written? No, I did not, becuase it is not MY book. This story must be written way the author wants it to be written. I am still sending info his way and I am sure I will really enjoy the book when it is finally available, no matter its HACC-ness or HI/RCC-ness. A plea for peace: Please, everybody, let us not repeat the disaster of six months ago. Whether or not you agree with the purpose of the HACC and despite what you may or may not think of the HACC itself, it is simply not designed to crush creativity and destroy diversity, and an infinite loop of "yes it is, no it isn't" will accomplish absolutely nothing of value. If you do not agree with the purpose of the HACC, fine, if you do, then I welcome any suggestions, advice and comments. By the way, for those of you who loved _Umbrella_, why not go the HACC on my web site and take a look at the year 1943. Thank you for your time and attention --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 19:18:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Steve: Of course. They went with Dorothy to provide support and/or protection. So much of the story took place in Alaska, that I thought the woodmen were from there as well. Ruth: I can't wait to read your article on Cheeriobed as King. I'm sure it will be fascinating. Robin: I stand corrected. Thanks for the info abot OZIANA stories and their roots in the FF. Barbara: Of course! A bird carried some seeds from Oogaboo and dropped them over the Ozure Isles. The seeds mutated, so that the books would be permanent. Several histories were collected to form a library. The problem has been very neatly solved. Thanks so much. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 19:45:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Barb - I received a message from Jim Vandernoot saying my Oziana had been returned due to improper addressing. That was weeks ago and still no Oziana. You may be in the same boat. Why don't you give Jim a jingle by e-mail. Briefly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 19:56:34 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-96 David Hulan wrote: >I'm surprised that the rotary egg-beater was considered that big a >labor-saving device; once it was electrified, maybe, but I've known a number >of people who thought it was just as easy to use a fork as a manual rotary >egg-beater to beat eggs, even for making things like meringue. The vacuum >cleaner, definitely, but I'd have thought things like the electric iron and >the wringer washing machine would rank a lot higher on the list than the >rotary egg-beater. Believe me, I've made meringues with a whisk and beaten pancake batters with a fork, and the rotary egg-beater is a God-send in comparison! I, too, know someone who swore that his mother whipped cream with an ordinary kitchen fork. I actually saw him try to duplicate this feat. After several minutes, the egg-beater made short work of the job. All I can say is, his mother must have an arm of iron. As to the electric iron and the wringer washing machine: The electric iron requires electricity (not all early vacuums did) and thus was not available to all. And the *non-electric* wringer washing machine isn't much of a labor-saver. You just use a different set of muscles. -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 20:33:06 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-96 There is a popular American superstition to the effect that the British pronounce all a's as in "father", but it ain't so. "Ass" is pronounced just the same in Received Pronunciation as in the US, and coudn't possibly be confused with "arse". And unless I misremember, it is extremely unlikely that it was pronounced differently in Shakespeare's time. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 07-Sep-96 10:02:13 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things VOLKOV AND FAQ: I have received good suggestions for the FAQ, and to the end of continual improvement therein, I need the folowing questions answered: -- When did Volkov write his "Oz" books? -- How popular were they in Russia? WHAT IF WE HAD AN HACC-WAR AND NOBODY CAME?: I second Tyler's plea for peace...NO HACC-WAR! And if you *must* start one, please do it via private E-mail! Let's practice Ozzy brotherhood! Ozma, Glinda, Dorothy, Scarecrow, Scraps, Nick, Wizard, Lion, etc.: "All we are saying is..." :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 9, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 07:37:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-96 > From: ahclem@netcom.com (Ken Cope) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-96 > > While illustrating Umbrella Island in Oz, I had a good reason to read > Speedy in Oz. It was the first time I thoroughly enjoyed a Thompson book. > Still, her Oz has very little to do with the Oz I visit when I read Baum. > Should I mount a campaign to have her work declared anathema and advise > others not to read her work because I still don't enjoy it as much as my > favorite stories? You and Jack Snow, eh? > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > DISNEYLAND RECORDS: > Thanks for the info. on those record verisons of Oz books...Tell me, did > any onf those records have in them a certain Ozite...Perhaps you know > her?...She's rather petite, er um...has dark hair with two big poppies... Ozma is on all three non-"Wizard" records, but doesn't have a large part in any of them. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 16:18:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Vokovian stuff: Here are the dates of publication for the six VOlkov books, not counting _Emerald Rain_. _The Wizard of the Emerald City_ 1939 (revised in 1959) _Urfin Jus and His Wooden Soldiers_ 1963 _THe Seven Underground Kings_ 1969 _The Fiery God of the Marrans_ 1972 _Yellow Fog_ 1988 _The Secret of the Witches Deserted Castle_ 1989 That 1939 date is not a coincidence, although it is based on the book and not the movie. The first four of these, by the way, are available from Peter Blystone and the Red Branch Press. They are worth reading. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 22:11:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The HACC and the HI/RCC Dave, your history of Oz is interesting, but I would like to dispute a few points: A) _The Woozy of Oz_ puts the first fairy settlements on Lurline's World at about 500,000 BCE, significantly before Tottenhots established their settlements. B) I had always assumed that Glinda and Locasta were Ozites. (Indeed, based on my claim that Mombi has three daughters and yours that Locasta is the grandmother of the Three Adepts, I have suspected that Locasta is Mombi's mother, and that Mombi is the mother of the Three Adepts.) The only source I know of that would support the notion that they weren't Ozites is Volkov's work, which has Bastinda, Gingemma, Glinda-Stella, and Locasta-Villina enter Oz from the outside world and impose their rule on the natives. C) It is nowhere near certain that Singra is THE Wicked Witch of the South. I personally favor the unnamed Shannowerian Wicked Witch of the South because 1) she is depicted as THE Wicked Witch of the South, while Singra is just a southern wicked witch, 2) Singra has some chronological problems if she is THE Wicked Witch of the South, and 3) THE Wicked Witch of the South is not copyrighted, being a Baumian character, and I may want to use her someday in _Lurline's Machine_. D) I propose that Glinda, Locasta, Mombi, Bastinda, Gingemma, Singra, the Wicked Witch of the South, Gloma, and probably several other magic workers were politically active in the parts of Oz under the rule of Oz Pastorius II before the takeover. Singra attempted to overthrow Glinda, and instead Glinda put her to sleep for a hundred years. After that, Bastinda, Gingemma, and the Wicked Witch of the South convinced Mombi to ally herself with them, and the four of them overthrew Pastoria and divided them kingdom among themselves. Oz was in a state of civil war for a while, and in the end Glinda, Locasta, Bastinda, Gingemma, Gloma, and maybe a few others emerged as the victors. D) According to the HACC, the Wizard arrived in 1868, at which time Gloma cut off contact with the rest of Oz. Also: What is ABBA? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 22:02:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-96 Tyler: I used a friend's cpu to access the net (via Netscape) and saw your page listed, but couldn't access it. Dunno why. I did get the IWOC pages and thought they were pretty cool looking, but maybe I'm easily impressed. I'm a real newbie. BTW, who the heck are "Princess Nanda" et al? Their alternative Oz bears very little resemblance to mine. You wrote: >> Several non-HACC books are among the finest material ever written about Oz, such as the March Laumer books and Farmer's _A Barnstormer in Oz_. To those who call me an Ozian Legion of Decency, this is one of the most un-decent books ever written, yet I love it). Oh my! --------------------------------------------------- OZIANA: Actually, I don't edit out all the glitches to make every story completely HACC. I'll smooth out the ones that bother me enough to warrant my invading and manipulating another person's writing. I'm an editor, not a coauthor. There've been lots of times my fingers have itched to "fix" a poem or a line here and there, but I've almost always been able to resist the impulse. If a story has a real discrepancy between its portrayal of a character or a "HACC-Fact," I probably won't use it. There have been exceptions. I *have* smoothed out a coupla discrepancies in stories I really liked but knew were somehow not consistent enough with the FF. FWIW, I know the FF fairly well. Upon reflection, I think I probably should have edited out the space reference in "Umbrella Island...". It made Speedy too old. I guess I blew it there, according to the mail I've gotten about it. (The mail has been kind and supportive, but uniform in pointing out that Speedy would no longer be a young man by the time we'd entered the space race.) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 01:08:37 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-96 Barbara DeJohn: Ah, Provincetown, Cape Cod. Home to sidewalk artists and cozy gift shops. That place seemed rather Ozzy to me.Hope it still is. I was thinking I got my first copy of Land of Oz there, but now I think I got it in Bar Harbour, Me. I was about 17 then. It was the paperback Dover edition, and it had the address of the Wizard of Oz club in it. So I joined up! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Monday 09-Sep-96 02:36:12 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MORE OZ REFERENCES: In the movie _Thelma and Louise_, Geena Davis asks Brad Pitt (shortly before they ), "Who are you?" Pitt, who later takes Geena and Susan Sarandon for every penny they have, answers with no false irony: "I am Oz the Great and Powerful". Also: This wasn't actually an Oz reference, but on C-SPAN about a week or two ago, they reenacted the eloquent speech given by William Jennings Bryan that got him the Democratic Presidential nomination a century ago. The issue on which he so passionately spoke was the gold standard, the issue supposedly satirized in a book called _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_. On that subject, I have downloaded from the Web some political/satirical analyses of _Wizard_, which I will report to you on ( if ever I can weed through them! :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 10, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 08:11:54 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-96 "Melody G. Keller wrote: >I was thinking I got >my first copy of Land of Oz there, but now I think I got it in Bar Harbour, >Me. I was about 17 then. It was the paperback Dover edition, and it had the >address of the Wizard of Oz club in it. So I joined up! That's how I joined the Club, too! Martin Gardner's introduction had me hooked, especially because it mentioned a map of Oz. Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 08:14:42 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-96 I will answer my own question from a few days ago: THE SCARECROW, THE LION AND THE TIN MAN is a novellete by Columbus author Alicia Williams. It is about the "forbidden" relationships between a woman and her male office workers. She develops three personality types for these men: scarecrows, tinmen and lions. The paperback is $11. Contact me if you would like info about how to order a copy. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 08:42:54 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Wizzard of Oz I went to to a club last Friday night. Their list of upcoming events included a band called "The Wizzard of Oz". No idea what sort of music they play. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 10:56:18 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests, 09-05 thru 09-96 9/5: Bear: I think a lot of us have reread the Oz books so many times that large parts of them are stuck in our brains. Even if I don't remember exactly what was said on a specific subject, I usually know what book and what chapter and can look it up in a couple of minutes. And then there are some excellent reference works as well. 9/6: Scott: Does the Alicia Williams book you mention have anything to do with the real Oz, or is it just using character-types based on the movie? (I ran across a book by Kathryn Lasky Knight titled THE WIDOW OF OZ, but based on the blurb its only Ozzy connection is that the title character was strongly influenced by the movie in her childhood.) The use of "Tinman" indicates it's probably movie-based... 9/7: Gordon: Ah, I misunderstood what you were saying. I agree that the gas and/or electric range/oven was also a massive improvement, although the wood/coal burning range did have the advantage of providing heat as well as cooking facilities in the wintertime. (In the summer, of course, it still provided heat, which wasn't so good, especially in hot climates.) I do remember, though, that the kitchen at the house of one of my grandmothers still had a coal stove when I was a kid; they had an electric stove as well, but their cook felt that she got better results with the coal stove. I don't know about "better", but she certainly got wonderful results from it! Tyler: BARNSTORMER may be one of the most un-decent _Oz_ books ever written (WICKED is certainly at least as much so), but as books go in general it's pretty tame. Farmer has written far more un-decent books himself, including a couple that were definitely soft-core porn (as evidenced by the fact that they were published by a porn house). A FEAST UNKNOWN, for instance, which involved clones of Tarzan and Doc Savage... Eleanor: Certainly the rotary egg-beater is an improvement over a fork or a wire whisk for beating eggs, making meringues and batters, etc. - but those aren't activities that I'd think most housewives would spend a lot of time doing, so the labor-saving entailed overall shouldn't be that great. I mean, we have a top-of-the-line KitchenAid electric mixer, that even handles kneading bread dough. I do most of the cooking for our family, and I average using it about once a year. I use a wire whisk maybe a dozen times a year. (It's easier to clean when I want to do something like scramble eggs or cut shortening into flour, and not that much more trouble.) I just don't see where the initial labor investment was that would make the rotary egg-beater save that much. Sure, it would save a lot if someone were making meringues, or whipped cream, or the like very often. But my answer to that is that until the rotary beater was available, who would want to make those things very often? 9/9: Aaron: According to the FF, Gloma didn't cut off intercourse with the rest of Oz until after Dorothy destroyed Bastinda, not when the Wizard came to Oz. I'm not sure what Dave meant by ABBA, since I haven't checked his Web page yet, but it's probably a reference to a rock group from, IIRC, the Seventies. Since I don't like rock in general, I don't know anything about them but the name. Someone else will probably give more details. Robin: I've had occasional problems accessing Tyler's Web page. Then the next day it would be there again. Don't know why. Would it not be possible to point out the FF-inconsistencies in a potential OZIANA story to the author and ask for corrections, rather than making them yourself? This would avoid either "invading and manipulating another person's writing" or publishing FF-inconsistent material. Or is this inconsistent with surprising the authors when their stories appear in OZIANA? (At least, I was surprised - albeit pleased - when "A Princess of Oz" appeared there last year.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 10:41:23 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Bottom's Dream Final word on bottoms: Part of the concern about the word ass that was in the digest last week may have sprung from Shakespeare's A MIDSUMMER NIGHT'S DREAM where a character named Bottom was given the head of an ass. This seemed to some an obvious pun on Shakespeare's part. Unfortunately for that theory not only did the word "ass" have the meaning of a certain fundemental part of the human anatomy, neither did the word "bottom." The OED's first citation of "bottom" to mean "the sitting part of a man" was in 1794, 200 years after Shakespeare's play. Shakespeare's word for that portion of a berson was "bum" as in the line (from MND) "Then slip I from her bum, down topples she." I shall now contentrate on other matters. I spoke to Fred Meyer this weekend. He has been able to walk with a cane, although he still needs a walker much of the time. This is progress. We all hope he can make it to the conventions next year. The Spring 1996 BAUM BUGLE is at least partly at press. It may be out by the end of the month. This may be the first time the Spring issue comes out in Autumn. The reviews for the Autumn issue are being sent off now. If anyone knows of anything that that should be reviewed in the Winter issue, please let me know. Several of the reviewers for the Fall issue came from the digest. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 14:19:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Aaron and Dave: A) The date when people first settled the Ozian continent is perhaps the most unknown item of information in all of Oz. This date is unknown and may be unknowable, especially if people settled before the invention of the written word. B) This is beginning to sound like a bad soap opera. "Yes, it's true, I am your mother, and this is your cousin's neice, who you thought to be your half-sister-in-law". It is possible that many of the magic workers are related, but I doubt that Mombi is the daughter of Locasta. C) Is THE Wicked Witch of the South in PD? She was mentioned in _Dot&Wiz_, but did not appear until Shanower's story. The same question may be asked of Pastoria, who was mentioned in _Land of Oz_, but did not appear until _Lost King_. D) IS is very likely that all good and wicked witches (with the exception of Abatha, Good Witch of the East) were involved in the political scene. Power can be a lure for some people, and those with magical capabilities would be the natural ones to try and seize it. E) IIRC, Gloma cut off contact when Ozma ascended the throne, or perhaps when the Tin Woodman became Emperor of the Winkies. I'll let Dave describe the group ABBA if he chooses to do so. Robin: One possibility is that you used some uppercase characters. This can be a problem with some browsers and servers. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tyler_jones is entirely lower case and that thing in the middle of my name is an underscore. Yes it's true. It's not Ozzy or HACC-worthy, but I love _Barnstormer_. While I believe editing some parts of OZIANA stories to make them gel with the FF, there is no need to make them gel with each other or the HACC. As someone else on this digest would say, this is a case of just fun stories with no other attachments (except the FF, of course). --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 14:48:11 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-96 Verious points.... 1) The Volkov books are very popular throughout what used to be called the Soviet Bloc, available in most major languages. One young Russian lady I spoke to, now resident in the USA, told me she thought them superior to Baum. 2) Eric Shanower's opinion is that the two Wicked Witches of the South are sisters who hate each other, sorta like Ann Landers and Dear Abby. 3) ABBA was a Swedish singing group of the 70's who recorded exclusively in English. They were wildly popular at the time. The name is an acronym of the four members' names. (It's also Aramaic (and Hebrew, too?) for "Daddy".) // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 17:22:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls One of the things I collect besides Oz books are something called "Big Little Books." These are small books, 3.5 x 4.5 x 1.5 inches that first appeared in 1932. The "golden age" continued until 1949 and Whitman, the main publisher put out about 580 books. There is one Oz book, "The Laughing Dragon of Oz." All this is probably not news to most Digesters. However, I just received an illustrated Big Little Book reference and value guide in the mail and thought some of you might be interested. The art work is really excellent, showing each of the books. There is information on history, where to buy, value, storage, etc. The book also lists prices for good, fine and mint grades. As an example, Laughing Dragon is listed as $55/$125/$225 in those grades. If this seems like a lot of money, the catalog also lists "Blue Ribbon Pop-up Books" including "The Wizard of Oz Waddle Book." Listed as extremely scare the prices in the three grades are: Book Alone $75 $150 $250 With DJ $200 $350 $550 With Waddles $2000 $5000 $8500 Complete and Unpunched $3500 $5000 $14,000 Don't you wish Granny had put a couple of these away for you. Anyway it is a beautiful book regardless of the fact that it establishes prices. The prices, by the way seem very fair to me. If you are interested the book costs $18.95. E-mail me for details. There is also a Big Little Book Collectors club that I can tell you about. Big Little Bookish regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 23:00:46 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-96 Dave wrote: >Also: This wasn't actually an Oz reference, but on C-SPAN....they reenacted the hpeech given by William Jennings Bryan... on which he so passionately spoke was the gold standard, the issue supposedly satirized in a book called _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz<. Oh, no!! Just when I thought the [infamous] "Parable on Populism" theory was dead I find that it just keeps going and going.... Aaron asked: What is ABBA? Isn't ABBA the name of that Swedish pop group from the 70's? Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 22:34:41 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz chronology on Club home page Thanks for the praise on the Oz timeline. It's nice to hear that someone thinks the work was worth it! I believe Jim included a page of my notes about various revisions and the contributors behind each fresh round of them. I did meet with a local editor about publishing it. He was intrigued -- asked me to leave the draft with him -- but never has figured out a way to do it right and affordably. And awhile back someone else stirred up interest in publishing it as a companion volume to a centennial edition of the Wizard but I've heard nothing from that front for ages. A couple obstacles to Club publication; I wouldn't bet my life on the accuracy of each entry. I was picking up secondary research and in many cases trying to make the best of contradictory information. For the Club to publish it (no one who would be involved in that decision, by the way, has expressed any interest in that) I think we'd feel obligated to assign to someone the overwhleming task of fact-checking the entire thing. As an educational non-profit group, accuracy would seem a requirement. Commiting it to print seems so much more final and less flexible/dynamic than the Club's web site. Plus, what a published version cries out for are literally hundreds of images and the time/photos/separation/layout/printing costs that effort would require make it something that would cost a fortune to do right. (A CD is the ultimate fantasy) While you and I may feel strongly about it, I'm afraid it may be unrealistic to think we could sell enough copies to produce the illustrated version of it in an affordable run size. Meanwhile, we can make text-on-paper versions that are at last useful if not beautiful. And hey, I'm open to suggestions and megga-buck grants! Literally hundreds of hours of my life went into that document and I'd welcome a way to give hard copy widespread availability. Speaking of it, Here are a couple reference in it that might help with the Volkov popularity question: April 1974 Five performances of The Wizard of Oz are given at the Central Childrens Theater in Moscow. An American Troupe from the State University of New York at Albany performs under the driection of Patricia Synder. Russian author Alexander Volkov, credited by most Russian children with authorship of the original story, appears at the final presentation and takes a bow. In 1977, Volkovs 1939 Russian translation of The Wizard of Oz was produced for the stage at the Malaya Bronaya Theater in Moscow. Consistent with the Volkov text, Dorothys name is Elli and her dog is Totoshka. The production was later presented in England as The Scarecrow, The Lion, The Tinman and Me. (Small world if that author Scott asked about is signing the script!) There also are references to Volkov's version being translated into other languages including Armenian, Chinese, Czechoslovakian, Kirghiz (I've never even heard of that one), Lettish, Lithuanian, Serbo-Croation and Ukrainian. And in the error department, I had different dates on a couple of the Volkov publications. Since I've no idea without a lot of searching where the dates I included came from, and most didn't include publisher's info, I'm wondering if anyone with an actual copy of the book can clarify The Truth on this one. Here are the dates posted a couple days ago on the Digest and, in parenthesis, the dates I had: The Seven Underground Kings 1969 (I have 1967) Yellow Fog 1988 ( I have 1974) The Secret of the Witches Deserted Castle 1989 (I have 1976) I made a note to add The Emerald Rain and the Salerno collection. Excuse the length of this post. I try to avoid these wordy ones but from time to time... Jane ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 22:37:18 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: and then I forgot to mention seeing the Oz on Ice toys at a local FAO Schwartz (Sp?) toy store. And I found two kiddie cassete versions of The Wizard at Best Buy. They also had a small point-of-sale sign advertising The Oz in Concert and MGM track CDs in their show tunes section. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 23:01:09 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-96 > While illustrating Umbrella Island in Oz, I had a good reason to read > Speedy in Oz. It was the first time I thoroughly enjoyed a Thompson book. > Still, her Oz has very little to do with the Oz I visit when I read Baum. > Should I mount a campaign to have her work declared anathema and advise > others not to read her work because I still don't enjoy it as much as my > favorite stories? Ken Cope: I enjoy the Baum stories more because Baum is more believable. There are things I like about the Thompson books, but when I really visualize her words, I see Hanna-Barbera cartoons. Yes, she does know how to write for children. She's lots more inventive than me when it comes to rhymes and puns. Children love action, excitement, adventure. But Baum wrote his Oz books in a way that both children and adults could appreciate. My favorite Thompson books, (despite the improbable plot devices of having all of Terribubble's bones miraculously and correctly welded together by an exploding spring, or the Soldier whose green whiskers turn red for no reason) are Speedy and Wishing Horse. Ozoplaning, which some fans have deplored here on the Digest and which does get too wild in the middle and end, does have a nice believable beginning at least. By the way, I enjoyed your illustrations for Oziana. They look very 3 dimensional. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 10-Sep-96 11:07:16 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ABBA IN OZ: As some have said, ABBA is a Swedish pop group ( they're really too polished and sophisticated to be called "rock" :) :) ). 'ABBA' is an acronym of the members' first names -- Agnetha, Bjorn, Benny, and Anni-Frid (a.k.a "Frida"). As with Oz, people who love ABBA have to put up with a lot of flak and snide remarks from mean-spirited folks. :( Obligatory Oz Tie-in: The girls from ABBA, Agnetha and Frida, serve in my illustrarions as models for two of the Adepts (Figure skater Oksana Baiul is the third). :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 11, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:22:26 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuf Aaron-- ABBA is a palindrome. :) :) (: (: Melody-- I first heard about the IWOC from my Children's Lit teacher at UCLA. It was a wonderful class, and we did a far bit of WIZARD. I had known about Oz books since I was a little kid, and seeing (most of) the class enjoy the book for the first time rekindled my interest, and led me to follow up on IWOC. Any other good stories out there? Well, for those who are IWOC members, anyway. BTW, by the end of the weeks we studied WIZARD, the most of the class was convinced the book was better than the movie! At least in theme, if not in stucture. Dave-- Do you have the addresses of those WIZARD essays you found so that others may "weed" through them if we want? Aloh-Oz, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 02:42:46 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Ken Cope and Melody Grandy: I wonder if you'd find more to admire in Thompson's work if you tried more of it. Her view of Oz is certainly different from Baum's, but it seems to me that it's not so different as to keep me from believing that it's the same country. (Besides, where would the people who are interested in Oz history be without The Lost King -- one of my favorites of hers, in any case, partly for the characterization of Pastoria, partly for the fun of having Mombi back on the scene, and partly because I enjoy her democratically royal little kingdoms tucked into odd corners of the Oz map.) Although I'd agree with you both in placing Speedy high among her books. I hope eventually the Oz Club will get around to deciding to publish a second collection of her short works. I put together such a collection (with input from Doug Greene) at Fred Meyer's request some years back, but the Club has not so far put it on any definite schedule for publication. It would feature her two Sissajig serials from Jack and Jill Magazine (as the earlier collection featured her Wizard of Way Up stories from King Comics), plus stories and poems from other sources. 0Steve Teller: regarding the schedule of reviews for the Baum Bugle -- I hope at some point or other you'll be running a review of the Dunkiton pamphlets I've been doing. Jane: Kirghiz (says my Webster's 9th New Collegiate) is a Turkic language spoken by a Mongolian (with probably some Caucasian intermixture) people of the same name who live in the steppes of Central Asia. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:34:12 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-10-96 Re: ABBA Okay, I confess. I bought an ABBA tape back in '76. :) Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:15:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls David - I am in awe that you can keep arcane details from 40 books sorted and available with your aging brain. There was a time when I could reproduce whole books verbaitim. Mine sure won't do that anymore. As there is continuing interest in PD and copyright issues here is a resource I ran across from my University: "Stanford is now providing Internet access to those interested in copyright laws and information. Stanford Libraries and Academic Information Resources is the co-sponsor of the Copyright and Fair Use Site on the World Wide Web site. The site is also sponsored by the Council on Library Resources and FindLaw Internet Legal Resources. It includes texts of laws and recent court cases, along with commentary. The Web site address is: http://www.fairuse.stanford.edu/ Good hunting legal eagles, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:20:54 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-10-96 Tyler: I doubt that Mombi is the daughter of Locasta as well. Sister, I could believe. Relative, more likely than not. Daughter, highly improbable. I imagine that one could write a pre-Dorothean story featuring the Wicked Witch of the South (as long as you didn't make her Singra) or Pastoria without a copyright problem, but probably not one set after the time of ENCHANTED APPLES or LOST KING respectively. However, I'm not a lawyer... As I said yesterday, Gloma said she cut off contact with the rest of Oz when she heard about Dorothy's destruction of the WWW. Jane: Kirghiz is a Central Asian language, I'm pretty sure of the Turkic family. There was a Kirghiz SSR in the old Soviet Union and I'm pretty sure there's now a Kirghiz Republic. It's tucked over between the Kazakh and Tadzhik Republics and Tibet, mostly in the Tien Shan mountain range - one of the highest countries in the world. The copyright date on my Russian version of SEVEN UNDERGROUND KINGS is 1971. I don't think the Russians/Soviets were very meticulous about dating their books... Melody: I agree with you on your favorite Thompsons, and that the beginning of OZOPLANING is believable. Unfortunately, from the time they get to the Strat, it starts to read as if Thompson had decided to quit writing the series and didn't really care what she was writing after that. I say that because with that one exception all of her books from OJO on were much better than most of her earlier ones, and I don't believe she suddenly forgot how to plot. Dave: I didn't think that after 1963 or so there was any real distinction between "pop" and "rock". Since I've never knowingly heard ABBA I have no opinion on them either way, other than that I didn't like any popular music I can remember hearing in the '70s (well, I like the score of THE ROTHSCHILDS) so I wouldn't consider the odds to be too good that I'd like them. But I'd be willing to listen to a cut or two given the opportunity. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 22:41:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Top web or not to web: I beleive that the Web Server used by CompuServe is still in the prototype stage. That is, it's sitting on top of a workbench somewhere. This may explain the intermittent access. Scott: It seems the "parable on populism" will never die, but we must keep pressing it down and portraying it for the myth that it is. Dave: Your ABBA tie-in has inspired me! If I can ever get my book started, perhaps some Ozzy illustrator will help me use Svetlana Boginskaia as the model for one of the ancient queens of Oz! Svetlana is a gymnast from Belarus, BTW. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 22:35:49 -0700 (MST) From: "Ozma@asu.edu" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-10-96 I think maybe I should respond to the question about Princess Nanda..."Princess Nanda" is eleven years old! At least, the child who dreamed herself into the story is eleven years old. We really, seriously try not to have anything going on in the Seamonkey Oz Pages which would conflict with any of the Oz books, but hey, if we do, feel free to let us know. We might change it. (Or not, as the case may be.) The kids try to imagine what is happening in Oz *now*. Princess Nanda just really loved the name, and the illustration, but didn't want to play the part of a maid. So she invented a happy ending for Nanda....and while I'm apologizing/explaining: I know the letters don't always get answered; but school has started again! So we'll do better. Our big news: the Scarecrow (with a couple of others) is writing an authorware animation which is going to be added to the pages in maybe a month! It will be, shall we say, way cool. I think. ------------- Sandy Andrews http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/oz/ ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 10-Sep-96 23:54:34 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FAQ: Along with today's Digest, I am sending everyone the new version of the FAQ ( what, ALREADY??? :) :) :) )... PARABLE ON POPULISM: The essay I downloaded from the web outlining the "Oz = Populist/Gold Standard" theory is now re-formatted and ready to send to anyone who wants it. Just bear in mind that I in no way endorse this "The Philosopher's Oz" thesis... Though if I *DID*, I might add to it and draw additional parallels...Perhaps the Nomes represent the Coal Miner's Union or Scraps personifies the Textile Industry? Could the Adepts stand for the three branches of government, or Button-Bright be a commentary on masculine reluctance to ask for directions? :) :) :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 12, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:23:47 -0700 From: wizofoz@okway.okstate.edu (Trisha Gedon) Has anyone ever been to OZtoberfest at Liberal, Kansas? I just received info about it in yesterday's mail. It will take place Oct. 19-20 this year. The whole thing is definately geared toward the MGM version of the story. I went back in '93 and had a great time. There doesn't appear to be as much stuff on this year's agenda, however. There were several of the munchkins on hand in '93, including Jerry Maren (aka: The Lollipop Kid), Clarence "Shorty" Swenson and Lewis Croft (both were soldiers), Nels Nelson (I can't recall his role off hand), Margaret Pellegrini (1 of the 5 Sleepyheads), Karl Slover (1 of 3 trumpeters who lead the mayor's procession) and Betty Tanner (an Oz resident). Several of the munchkins who had planned to attend were unable due to health problems. There were giant get well cards for everyone to sign. Also, Aljean Harmetz, author of The Making Of The Wizard of Oz was there. There will be a parade down Kansas Avenue and all munchkins in town for OZtoberfest will ride on a float in the parade. The area where OZtoberfest takes place features Dorothy's House, a life-size replica of her home in the movie. Do you remember in the movie when we see a bottom view of Dorthy's house while it is whirling around in the cyclone? That house (it's only about 3 feet high) that was used in the movie is on display. We bought tickets to a dinner/auction with the munchkins following the day's events in '93. But there was no mention of such an event again this year. They used to sell yellow bricks (about $50 I think) and they would be inscribed with whatever you wanted. These bricks make up the yellow brick road that runs through the area where OZtoberfest takes place. If anyone wants more info on OZtoberfest, they can call the Liberal Convention and Tourism Bureau at 316-626-0170. BTW, are there any Ozzy Digest subscribers who live in this area? -Trisha Gedon =:) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:09:29 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: For the Digest Learning about IWOC: For me it was the note in one of the Dover reprints of one of Baum's non-Oz works (can't remeber which one). The first time I tried joining I received a letter from the Club about increased dues (the reprints had dates from the early 70's and this was 1985, so it was quite understandable; if I had been somewhat older than ten at the time, I might have expected that to be the case). I forgot about the Club for a few months, but by December 1985 I was a member, and have been so ever since. Thompson: She's different from Baum, but I love her books just as much. There's something about Baum's books which is quite wonderful and which I really can't describe, and while I don't think the Thompson books have this specifc quality, there are just plain fun. ABBA: Sorry ABBA fans, but after about five minutes of their movie on VH1, I had to turn it off. David: Rock and pop are different styles of music, although people who don't listen to either tend to group them together. True, pop can be taken as a very general term, but then you group some very disparate items. In the general sense, pop includes both rock and rap, but these are not the same. Pop in the specific sense refers to Billboard Top 40 type music, which may occasionally include some of what is termed rock (one way to look at it, though not thoroughly accurate since the boundaries aren't firm, is that rock is more on the lines of hard rock, while pop includes soft rock). I could go further, but that's getting outside the scope of this digest. A rock fan, Nate ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:27:49 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 9-10-96 Robin: I recently added considerable more memory to my Mac so that I can, once again, access the Web , and I have encountered the same problems that you mentioned. At times, recently, nearly all of the Oz related sites have been unavailable, but a few minutes later they were! Today, no problems. :) Bear: Between my brother and I, we had a bunch of Big Little books in the 1930's. Oh, to have them today! I also had the first Superman comic and the first Batman. But back in the those dark ages, when I was a kid, when comics were around the house for more than a month, and had been read and reread many times, they wound up at the local barber shop. :-(( Dick (too soon old, and too late smart) Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:25:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-10-96 David: Of course I could point out the inconsistencies to an author. I have done so several times or worked with an author in other ways and then used the story. Usually, however, I can find other things from the Oz Research Table or from the Story Circle to use. Did I change anything in your story? If you were surprised that I used it, then perhaps we need to clarify that anything submitted to the Research Table or Story Circle is automatically submittedto OZIANA, unless the author has specifically requested that it not be. ABBA is not a rock group. It's pop. Too soft and melodic for rock, thank heavens...at least the stuff I've heard was. OZOPLANING is an odd book. Some folks have speculated that Neill had something to do with the writing of it. I doubt it, since RPT would not be likely to let anyone meddle with her writing, but she certainly wasn't pleased with her publisher at that time, and some of the book's weaknesses may possibly be attributed to that displeasure and lack of enthusiasm. SANDY: Good luck with the SeamonkeyOzstuff. Parable on Populism: I keep hearing from my customers that "My professor says...." Sheesh, but the populism parable is popular. I've had people from all over the country try to convince me that their professor *must* be right. Hmmm. Bear: My mind is at least as old as David's, and it, too, catalogues Oz trivia. I wonder what this says about David and me? And I wonder why I can remember Oz stuff so readily, but not all the medieval England stuff that I'm in process of teaching. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:27:25 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Jane-- Interesting that the languages Volkov has been mostly translated into are -er- were Soviet/Communistic at the time. Hmmm. Curious parallels here. Baum's book, especially the communistic overtones in EMERALD CITY were banned because of the "Un-American" themes. Perhaps having Baum-influneced Volkov so popular in the Communist Blok also swayed "their" decision. David, you beat me to the geography lesson! If there's one thing I want to spread the word about, it's geography! (aside from Oz and Christianity I guess) Speaking of banned books-- This week is Banned Books Awareness Week (or something like that-- you get the idea) If your bookstore is participating in this (I know several Barnes and Nobles are) make them aware of EMERALD CITY and the Oz books. These people are putting previously banned books on display, to heighten public awareness. Let's piggyback some Oz awareness to! Next time, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:59:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Ruth: I got the impression that Ken and Melody did not dislike Thompson as much as they preferred the Baumian style to that of Thompson. FWIW, I prefer the Thompson books to Baum's overall, though she did have some weaknesses. Bear: That copyright site sounds interesting. If I have time, I'll take a look. Dave and David: There is a tendency in the industry to call EVERYTHING "rock" music. Part of this is simple tradition. Also, it is easier to do this than to take the time to differentiate music into it's component parts. Finally, a musical group saying "we're going to pop the house" or "we're going to rap the house" somehow does not convey the same meaning. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 13, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:42:33 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission David Hulan writes in the 8/30 Digest Not necessarily so. Magical power may be like music or chess playing abilities, which appear to be largely innate -- but if the person is not exposed to music or to chess, there is little or no chance to express that ability. The Wizard may be a natural born magician, but never having seen true magic before arriving in Oz, could not learn to demonstrate his true magical power until sometime after that. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:50:36 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Danny: It isn't particularly interesting that Volkov has mostly been translated into languages spoken by Soviet Socialist Republics. Cultural and trade relations made it easy for SSRs to translate Russian-language books. They are less likely to translate books from countries not so related, and other countries not so related are less likely to translate from the Russian. So of course Volkov would be translated there and not much elsewhere. I don't know of any examples of the banning of Oz books where the reason given was "communist" political theory in the books. It's been suggested as a possible unspoken reason, and it might have been a factor in the hysteria of the 50s, but it seems more likely to me that keeping the Oz books out of libraries was mostly just the librarians' prejudice against popular, fragile-binding, long series. They took it for granted that such books had no artistic merit and did not want to spend the money it would take to get a whole series' worth and keep having to replace them or rebind them as they wore out. The explicit reasons that were given were usually fears that fantasy as such was "bad" and weakened a child's sense of reality. In recent years, Christian groups have been getting the Oz books banned for reasons so hairbrained that I won't try to reproduce them. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:21:08 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-11 & 12-96 9/11: If we're talking about when we first heard about the IWOC, I heard about it from Ruth Berman back in 1961 when she did an article on Oz for my fanzine LOKI. I went to the first few Winkie Conferences in the late '60s, but didn't actually get around to joining the IWOC until 1984, when I saw a RETURN TO OZ display at the World Science Fiction Convention in Anaheim and picked up a membership application there. My loss for the intermediate 23 years... Bear: I can't keep _all_ the details from all 40 FF books sorted out in my aging brain - if I could, I'd have won one of those Master's Quizzes I took at Winkie, instead of being beaten out by Robin one year and Eric the next. But since I reread all of the books on the average of once every couple of years, the details are always at least fairly fresh in my mind, so, as I said, if I don't remember a specific bit I at least have a good idea where to look it up. Dave: I _love_ your line, "[Could] Button-Bright be a commentary on masculine reluctance to ask for directions?" 9/12: Nate: As I said, I don't know much about recent popular music (whether rock, pop, rap, country, or whatever), other than that the only kind I find appealing to me, by and large, is the Latin strain. (If I can't find a station playing music from the '30s and '40s, I usually hunt for a Spanish-language station; can't understand the lyrics or the talk, but the tunes are pleasant, which is unusual elsewhere on the dial - to my taste.) Robin: As far as I know, you didn't change anything in my story, though I didn't do a line-by-line comparison of the original to the published version. I actually wasn't aware that a submission to the Story Circle was considered an automatic submission to OZIANA (unless the author specified otherwise), and I'm not sure the rest of the Story Circle was aware of that either; it might be worthwhile mentioning this fact on an annual basis so that new SC participants would know. And it might be nice to let the authors know that their stories had been chosen for the next issue, at least. But that's up to you; I don't mind being pleasantly surprised, and I doubt many if any others would be either. Nah, your mind isn't as old as mine; IIRC, I have 7-8 years on you. (I hit the big six-oh in December.) Danny: Do you have any actual evidence that the "communistic" economy described in EC ever led to its being banned, or is this just another speculation about the Awful Fifties? It's true that few libraries carried the Oz books in the Fifties - or the Forties, for that matter - but the reasons I always heard from librarians at the time were more related to their being fantasy (which wasn't popular then with librarians) and series (which demanded a large outlay to get a lot of books - Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew weren't found in most libraries, either), and not anything about communism. It's certainly true, on the other hand, that there have been attempts to get WIZARD off the shelves in recent years, mostly from the Christian Right, because it includes good witches. I'm pretty much a geography freak myself. I have one whole shelf of the bookcase beside my "reading chair" devoted to atlases, so I can follow the action in books I read "on the ground", so to speak. (I have motoring atlases, on a scale of 3-4 miles to the inch at least, of Great Britain, Ireland, France, Spain, and Italy, and one of Europe with varying scales but usually no more than 10 miles to the inch. Besides some good world atlases, a Rand McNalley US motoring atlas, city maps of the 40 or so largest US cities, full books of really detailed street maps of the London, LA, and Chicago areas, and large-scale topographic maps of California and Tennessee.) And for the coarse stuff, I have a globe on the other side of my chair. (And if you read GLASS CAT, you'll see that I use my Oz maps a great deal in plotting my story. In fact, one 5th-grade teacher who read the book to her class used items from it as math problems in travel-distance-speed.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:23:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-12-96 I just received my first issue of the Ozzy Digest, and I have some comments. The first regards the Thompson Oz books. In some ways, I prefer these to the Baum books. Thompson's plots were often stronger than Baum's, and she did not overuse characters quite as much as Baum did. Also, I agree that her books are fun, which is quite important for me. I am kinda rushing right now, and I might have more comments on this subject later. The story in the 1996 Oziana was interesting and well-written, but there were two strange things about it. The first was the missing page, and the other was a problem with the time in which the tale took place. Speedy's age seems to indicate that it took place in the thirties or forties, but there are references to television, which did not exist in this time period. Well, that is all for now. Oz Forever, Nathan Mulac DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:10:28 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Went to buy some stamps this afternoon, and was interested to see a sheet out that I may want to call part of my Oz collection -- it's a "Songwriters" set in the "Legends of American Music Series," and the four songwriters portrayed are Johnny Mercer, Dorothy Fields, Hoagy Carmichael, and "Wizard" lyricist Harold Arlen. Also of interest in terms of fantasy literature generally -- there's a folklore sheet out with portraits of Casey at the Bat, Paul Bunyan, John Henry, and Pecos Bill. Oh, and our Ozmaphiles might want the Georgia O'Keefe stamp, which is reproductions of her 1927 "Red Poppy" painting. If you stick two on your ears -- well, no, maybe not. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:16:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS Dick - Sorry your Firsts went to the barber shop. There was never anything at my barber shop but Police Gazette! Did I learn some things. Many people I know had their comics donated to paper drives in those years. I hid mine in the attic where my parents couldn't possibly find them. Unfortunately, I wasn't collecting early enough to get Batman 1 and Superman 1. Sigh. Robin - I think the answer has to do with when you loaded the Oz stuff into memory. I still remember some early sci fi novels I read as a youth quite well. I was 30 something when I was first reading Baum to my kids. I remember Baum from then somewhat. Now what I read last month...... I collect material on medieval life and times. Do you have a bibliography for your class I could have? Modern regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:39:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest TNJ on RPT: From what I have heard, Thompson was having a lot of porblems with the new management at R&L. For esxample, she wanted to update the map, a good idea, considering the many new countries that she added to Oz and the surrounding area, but they wouldn't, and so on. Also, I have heard that around that time, she had a lot of personal issues and all that combined meant that she simply could not devote the normal level of attention and enthusiasm that she normally gave to her Oz books. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 14, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:29:24 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission Robin Olderman writes in the 9/2 Digest <...what do we call ourselves?) DIGESTers.> Well, that makes sense for us east-coasters, after all that munching we naturally have to digest, but what about the rest of the crew? ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:36:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: 9-13-96 Bear: I guess you're right. I "loaded" the Oz info into my brain rather early in life. The best medievalist I know is Warren Hollister. His area of expertise is medieval England. He's listed in the Oz Directory. If you need his address, e-mail me privately. He can certainly suggest a bibliography for you. For fun, read Eloise's THE LONG SHIPS. It's well-researched, as are all of her books. Also for fun, the Jean Plaidy series on the Plantagenets. I teach medieval England material in high school, but I'm no expert. My own area of interest in things British lies in the Tudors. What a group! David: Gee, you don't *look* like an AARP member! You're right. I still have a few years before I can claim my senior citizen discount. FWIW, I'm also an AARP member, although I'm "only" 52. Joining the Oz Club: I tried not to. I'd known about it since it started and avoided it like the plague. Too bad. I might have been one of the original members! I also resisted joining back in the '60s when Jim Haff urged me to sign up. I figured anyone in an Oz club needed to "get a life." Imagine that! RPT: I love the humor and pace of her books. They bounce along and are great fun. They're wonderful "escape" literature. OTOH, Baum stories often have more depth. Ruth: Great line about the poppy stamps. I laughed out loud. Danny: I used to query librarians about why the Oz series were so unpopular with them. Shelf space was a primary reason. So was the "softening" effect of fantasy on the young mind. One gal told me it was because Oz had good witches, which she saw as a problem. --R. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:18:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-96 In regards to the comments about innate magical abilities, it may indeed be true that the Wizard had innate magical powers. However, it seems that some magic can be used by anyone, even if they do not possess any talent in magic. I first heard of the Club from a book called "Amazing Days." This was before I had read any of the Oz books, and I really had no idea what the Club was about. Later, my father gave me copies of "Wizard" and "Land," and I began reading all of the Oz works I could find. My mother gave me the address of the Club, but I lost it. However, when I remembered that the address was in "Amazing Days," I wrote to the Club. A little while later, I joined the Oz Club. This was in the spring of 1993. Ozma and Oz Forever, Nathan Mulac DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:07:43 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-96 Happy triskaidekaphobia day to you all! Earl: OK, I was careless in my phrasing - rather than "born with magic powers" I should have said "born to a race with magic powers". The subject under discussion at the time was whether Glinda was fully human or not; my point was that the Wizard's magic proves that fully human beings can do magic, so there is no reason to suppose that Glinda isn't also fully human. But you have a valid point; some humans may be born with the ability to work magic, while others aren't, and the Wizard might have been one of the former. Still, so could Glinda. Nathan: I agree that Thompson generally had stronger plots than Baum. (Or, at least, she rarely wrote a book with as little plot as DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD or ROAD.) On the other hand, she wasn't as good at creating a realistic ambience to her world. But they were both good, in different ways; there are books by each that I think are inferior, but I still reread them regularly. Ruth: A minor quibble - Arlen was the composer of the songs for THE WIZARD OF OZ; E.Y. Harburg was the lyricist. (As far as I know, Arlen didn't write lyrics at all, but I'm not sure of that. Of the people you list, I know Mercer and Carmichael wrote both music and lyrics, though Mercer is better known for lyrics and Carmichael for music; as far as I know Fields only wrote lyrics.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:51:45 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: New Year Today (Saturday) is Rosh Hashanah. I just wanted to wish everyone on the digest a happy and sweet new year! (BTW Dave and Tyler): The Little Wizard Stories were originally published by Reilly and Britton, they should not be listed in the FAQ as the publication of BoW. They are the current reprinters, but all other books are listed under the original publishers. Trisha: I was at the Liberal Oztoberfest in 1989 (I believe that was the first one). John Fricke was there, as were 11 Munchkins and some other celebraties. I was able to get some very nice signatures in my 50th Anniversary History! I haven't been there in recent years as it is a seven hour drive. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:08:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest ********** A TINY SPOILER FOR _ENCHANTED APPLES_ ********** Earl: By extension, of course, there may be some people who do not have "it" and, no matter how hard they try, simply cannot do magic. For example, in the non-FF _Enchanted Apples of Oz_, Bortag tries very hard to practice magic, but every attempt he makes only results in creating a potato. While he has a plentiful supply of food, real magic is a little out of his reach. ********** END OF MICRO-SPOILER FOR _ENCHANTED APPLES_ ********** Nathan: Welcome aboard! I am sure your further comments on the Oz books will be insightful and thoughtful. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Friday 13-Sep-96 21:50:11 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BELATED JOINING OF THE OZ CLUB: I first learned about the IWOC about 15 years ago from _The Oz Scrapbook_. It was a landslide of cruel teasing from my "peers" that made me abandon Oz for about ten years. ( Once I brought an Oz book to school, and one kid snatched it from me, ripped out all the pages and scattered them gleefully all over the campus. Kids can be so *sweet*! :( ) But in adulthood, my enthusiasm for Oz has been revitalized with a vengence! In 1994, I found the address for "The Royal Club of Oz" in a book at the library, and so I joined, and I joined the IWOC shortly thereafter. Now I'm having lots of fun! :) :) "SOAPY SAM" IN OZ???: I have heard that too, that the Religious Extremists say that witches by definition are Satan-worshippers, so the concept of good witches to them is Satanic, and ergo, so is Oz. Give me a break! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 15, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 09:19:20 -0200 From: amyjones@MindSpring.COM (Amy Jones) Subject: for Ozzy Digest As one who may be considered a "Religious Extremist" by some (and a flaming liberal by the true religious extremists) I'd like to comment on the effect fantasy (Oz in particular) on the young minds of today. I have a logical mind, and from a very young age, my attitude toward everything was "prove it!" Reading fantasy (Oz and fairtales for the most part) allowed me to believe for a short time in something wonderful without it being proved to me. I learned that something could be true without being factual, and now truth is so much more important to me. I am sure that it helped in some ways with my own faith. It's easy to say this to y'all, I know that you agree with me. But as a teacher in the Bible belt, imagine trying to convince a parent of this. I've had this conversation several times with a less receptive audience. TTFN, Amy Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:03:14 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Digest stuff Oz books and Libraries: As I've mentioned before, my introduction to Oz books was when my 4th grade teacher read The Wizard of Oz to our class. The book was her own, and I remember, still, her displeasure with the school and public libraries for not having them. A good friend of my mother was on the Board of our local town library, and when asked 'why not Oz books', replied that 'fairy tales of that sort were not considered appropriate reading for children!' The year was 1939. Today, the Ocean County library system, here in NJ, has many Oz books, and enabled me to, finally, get my hands on Michael Patrick Hearn's "Annotated Wizard of Oz". :-) Tyler: I, too, took some razzing from my friends for reading and collecting Oz books when I was young. From my high school freshman year, 1944, until 1993, my books were packed away in boxes, and carried from one place to another as I moved through nearly 50 years of my life. Then in 1993, going through some boxes in a closet, I came across "The Oz Scrapbook", which a friend, knowing of my collection, had given me in the late 70's. I leafed thru it, saw the Club's address, wrote to ask how to obtain a subscription to the Bugle, and after receiving Fred Meyer's reply, joined the Club. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:51:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-96 Happy New Year, Steve, Mike, Adelmans, and others of us who celebrate it this week.Ten days to think about how to be better.... I need more time than that! Earl:OwwWWWCH! Munchkins digesting, indeed. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:37:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-96 Regarding whether Glinda is fully human: The King of the Fairy Beavers (in "Shaggy Man") states that Glinda is a fairy. However, he might not be correct in making this statement. While it is true that television existed during the forties, "The Wizard of Oz" was not shown on television at that time, as far as I know, and Mr. Concel says, "I've seen the movie several times on TV with my children." Oz wiedersehen, Nathan M. DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:42:41 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-96 Re: Joining the Oz club Because of my ignorance and total lack of knowledge at the time, I sent a letter to Jack Snow, care of Reilly and Lee, in 1968. Reilly and Lee forwarded the letter to Fred Meyer. In usual Fred Meyeresque, he wrote me a long letter which began: "Reilly and Lee forwarded me your letter to Jack Snow for me to answer, and it is a pleasure to do so. Unfortunately, Jack died in 1956, so it is not possible for him to write to you...." Fred enclosed a free Bugle about Snow and invited me to join the club. It cost a whole $2.50, but who could turn down an invitation like that? Re: Dave's unfortunate experience in school and Oz I can honestly say I've never had a problem with Oz even remotely related to Dave's experience. However, I remember I tried to wear a Mickey Mouse watch in 6th grade but had to quit--due to teasing. I didn't wear the watch again until high school, but by this time it had become "cool". (Everyone [especially girls] had to look at it.) I still wear one. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:52:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-96 Dave, Ronald J. Young has written to the Oz Club enquiring about "ten non-Oz books Ruth Plumly Thompson wrote about the tme she was writing some of the Oz books," and also asks "In what Baum book or story does the Kingdom of Dreams appear?" I can readily identify five non-Oz books and a number of pamphlets, but I don't recall Baum's "Kingdom of Dreams." Perhaps an Ozzier Digester than I am can add some information. This is what I've jotted down so far: Ruth Plumly Thompson published five non-Oz books during her lifetime (if by books you mean titles issued in hard-cover): The Perhappsy Chaps, Chicago, P. F. Volland, 1918 The Princess of Cozytown, Chicago, P. F. Volland, 1922 The Curious Cruise of Captain Santa, Chicago, Reilly & Lee, 1926 The Wonder Book, Chicago, Reilly & Lee, 1929 King Kojo, Philadelphia, David McKay, 1938 She was also responsible for a number of pamphlets. Among them are: The Land of Nod/Rocking Horse Hill, N.Y., Murray, 1920 Old Doc Turtle/Lucky Peter, N.Y., Murray, 1920 Tommy in Topsy Turvy Land, N.Y., Murray, 1920 These first three contain reprints from Miss Thompson's page in the Philadelphia Ledger. Billy in Bunbury, Chicago, Royal Baking Powder Co., 1925 The Comical Cruise of Captain Cooky, Chicago, Royal Baking Powder Co., 1926 The Prince of the Gelatin Isles, Chicago, Royal Baking Powder Co., 1926 I'll be grateful for additions to the Thompson list and a citation for the Baum-related query. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 22:47:14, -0500 From: Donald_Davis@prodigy.com (MR DONALD T DAVIS) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-96 Just wondering if anyone from the Ozzy Digest is going to the "Wizard of Oz" Festival in Chesterton, Indiana!! If anyone is I hope to see you there!! Thanks Don Davis!! ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 00:49:27 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi! Another quick one... Robin Olderman wrote: <> Actually, since William Shatner (?) didn't coin the phrase until 1984 or so, you'd probably have considered them undersocialized...but the concept was there, even if the phrase wasn't. David Hulan wrote: <<...as far as I know [Dorothy] Fields only wrote lyrics.>> I only learned her name recently, but I recognized her songs (especially "Start All Over Again" and "A Fine Romance") from the Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers movie SWING TIME, in which Astaire and Rogers find each other in a typical '30's romantic comedy (most ironic for the fact that Fred's rival for Ginger, the slightly screwball redhead, was a Latino band leader...just think, if he'd won out, we'd've had I LOVE LUCY 20 years earlier!). A fellow member of the local P.G. Wodehouse club was especially interested in the songs because Fields' musical collaborator, Jerome Kern, had also worked with Wodehouse (mostly in the teens and '20's) as well as with Oscar Hammerstein (on SHOW BOAT) before he hooked up with Richard Rogers. He said he'd heard Fields, a rare (at the time) female writer, may have got into the field through a relative (W.C. Fields?) but wasn't sure of the details. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> Actually, I understand television did exist in the early forties, but largely as a curiosity owned by only a few people. Not until America had recovered from World War II did it become more of a mass medium...but, as the nephew of an inventor, Speedy might well have seen, or his family even owned, a working television set as early as 1941. ON 'OZOPLANING WITH THE WIZARD OF OZ' A fascinating thought that John R. Neill may have written all or most of the novel...and not impossible given the precedent of THE ROYAL BOOK OF OZ. (If Reilly & Lee credited Thompson's first Oz book to Baum, I could hardly put it past them to credit Neill's first Oz book to Thompson.) Has anyone studied the writing styles enough to tell if there's any substance to that idea? And speaking of Neill, and his claim that people in the Emerald City had actual green skin...that seems to come from Baum, who mentioned such a thing in THE WIZARD OF OZ. (And not just because of the green glasses everyone wore at the time, since, as was noted in THE BAUM BUGLE, the Guardian of the Gates had green skin when Dorothy saw him BEFORE she put the glasses on.) But didn't someone else point out that the MGM movie also had green-skinned people...only not the Emerald Citizens but the Winkies? (Most prominently the Wicked Witch, but also her subjects.) And, given that Michael Patrick Hearn and others have theorized that most of the original population the Wizard brought to the Emerald City WERE displaced Winkies, and that Neill was writing AFTER the movie came out...it all makes a very Neillian kind of sense. (In that, in the movie, the Emerald City's people WEREN'T green...but then, neither were the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman midgets, Munchkins though they were...) Good night! Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 16, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 07:08:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-15-96 > From: Peter Hanff > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-96 > > Dave, > > Ronald J. Young has written to the Oz Club enquiring about "ten non-Oz > books Ruth Plumly Thompson wrote about the tme she was writing some of > the Oz books," and also asks "In what Baum book or story does the Kingdom > of Dreams appear?" > > I can readily identify five non-Oz books and a number of pamphlets, but I > don't recall Baum's "Kingdom of Dreams." Perhaps an Ozzier Digester than > I am can add some information. An Ozzier Digester than Peter Hanff? Unlikely. But at least I can help with the Baum question. The only reference in a Baum book that I'm aware of to the Kingdom of Dreams -- and this is REALLY stretching it! -- is on page 190 of "Ozma of Oz": "But she lay down upon her couch, nevertheless, and in spite of all her worries was soon in the land of dreams." This is the closest answer I've ever seen or heard of to the question of Baum's Kingdom of Dreams. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:46:24 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-96 Ruth: I do like Thompson--I've got the entire FF, in fact. But I do like Baum better because he makes the fantasy in his Oz books more believable. I tend to cringe at the incredible or impossible coincidences in the Thompson books. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 19:20:12 -0400 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Apparantly, I forgot to send my post yesterday, so here are two of them! :-) Nathan (and others): We have indeed seen that some forms of magic can be used by anyone. For example, anybody can ask the magic picture to show them something, and anybody can swallow one of the Wizard's wishing pills and make a wish. These are cases of someone who HAS magical talent creating something that anybody can use as a tool. An analogy in our world is that while not everybody can build a car, most of us can drive one. Stephen: I listed the LIttle Wizard Stories as BOW books since they are an active publisher. I tried to do this for all books except for the FF. Dave: The closest thing I ever did was to write book reports on the Baum books in second grade. I guess if I had done so in the fifties, I would have been cast out of society into darkness. --Tyler Jones BEGIN PART II Nathan: You joined the digest after I made this comment, so I'll repeat it for your benefit. In _Glinda of Oz_, Ozma and Dorothy have a discussion of magic in general.Ozma says that there are many different kinds of amgic workers, and that some can do things others can't. SHe specifically says that she is a fairy and that Glinda is "different" from her. The King of the Fairy Beavers may only know GLinda through rumors and hearsay, and assumes that she is a fairy because she lives in the Land of Oz. GLinda was also referred to as a witch before we found out that she was really a sorceress. Again, the confusion may have resulted from the fact that, for the most aprt, any woman who practices magic is called a witch out of simplicity. Also, I believe that the MGM movie debuted on TV in 1956. Oz books in school: When I did my Baum book reports in the second grade, nobody ever made fun of them. BTW, Dave what grade were you in when the "incident" ocurred? However, when I mentioned that there were 40 Oz books, one kid said that there were actually 50 Oz books, one for each state! He thought that Baum wrote a book in one state, moved, and wrote another book. Never mind that there were only 48 states back then. Peter: I can't find the Kingdom of Dreams in _Who's Who in Oz: An Appendix_ by James Haff, expanded by RUth Berman, or in _Who's Who, What's What and Where'e Where in Oz_ by Peter B. Clarke. This kingdom must have been mentioned in one of Baum's other stories. Rich: While I have never studied the writing stye of _Ozoplaning_ to see if it what really written by Neill, it is a possibility. This story is written very differently from Thompson's other books and has a lot of similarities to the three Neill's, which follow. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Monday 16-Sep-96 00:31:12 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things PLAYING CATCH-UP: There are a couple of messages over the past week that I have neglected to answer due to time saturation, but that I will address now: First, Homer asked how I generated the "Emerald City" and "Mount Flathead" pictures on my web page...I went out to Gillikin Country and Lake Quad and snapped the photos myself! :) :) :) Seriously, I created the landscapes by first drawing "relief maps" of those regions of Oz in a paint program. Then I imported the "maps" into _VistaPro_, a fractal landscape generating package, which converted the "maps" into 3D objects. Then _VistaPro_ rendered the landscape objects into 3D images. The image of the Emerald City itself I built and rendered using the 3D rendering/animation package _Imagine_. I then went back into the paint program and pasted the Emerald City image onto the rendered landscape of Lake Quad. The other thing that I am answering belatedly was a comment by someone (I'm afraid I don't know who -- I can't find the message in my archive of recent Digests) who was hesitant to ask "beginner's" questions about Oz on the Digest. Please don't be afraid to ask ANY question you have! One criticism levelled at many Internet mailing lists, including the Ozzy Digest, is that it is nearly all scholarly discussion and next to nothing for newcomers. While I wrote the FAQ to partially address this problem, there are still many people who I know have questions about Oz and are confused by many of the discussions currently on the Digest. But we "old-pros" don't wish to have a monopoly on the Digest. We want the "newbies" to be a part of the discussion and the fun as well! But the only way that the Digest can become more inclusive and less exclusively scholarly is if the others on the Digest contribute! I promise you that NO ONE will think you are "stupid"! I've learned from experience that nearly everyone on the Internet are supportive of each other and are sympathetic to novices, if only because we all have been there! We ALL have to start from scratch. Myself included! Even though I'm the moderator of this Digest, I have on many occasions been in the same boat as the "newbies"! There was a time when even I knew nothing of Oz except MGM, and a year ago I still had never heard of most of what I now know Oz has to offer. I have learned as much about Oz just by having this Digest as anyone! So please contribute folks! We will welcome you with open arms, and I'm sure your questions and comments will make the Digest better than ever before! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 17, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:17:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-16-96 From: Barbara DeJohn Hi Digest!!! I am back from the Cape where I went to just about every used book store. I did find some OZ books some were priced out of my league but I did buy a few. Does anyone know why a first edition of HANDY MANDY would be priced $250 in good condition and a first HUNGRY TIGER $95 same condition at the same store? I have been offered THE LIFE AND TIMES OF SANTA CLAUS in fair condition with a new spine missing 2 plates out of 20 for $75. Does this sound about right to you bookstore owners? How would I know if it is a first edition and do any of you have it for less or in better condition? I know this is an old topic to you all now but "pop" music is kind of all encompassing standing for popular music. Rock certainly would fall under this catagory, or at least some of it would as well as some R&B, country, blues and even alternative. I'm glad to be back. Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:05:20 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: My son and Oz Well, this morning, my four-year-old, Baruch, asked me to start reading him RINKITINK. I told him that it wasn't so very Ozzy, taking place mostly outside the land, but he insisted anyway. We read chapter one this morning. It was kind of boring for him, being mostly descriptive (I know what he means, I don't really like those parts myself. For us ADHD folks, it doesn't hold our attention). I hope for more success then we had in DOTWIZ, which he gave up after about 5 chapters or so. (He did like WIZARD, and all 5 Shanower graphic novels). Here's hoping.... Learning about IWOC: I'd say it was sometime aroun 1975, from a confluence of sources: 1) It being listed in _The People's Almanac_ 2) Marting Gardner (whom I am a big fan of) mentioning it from time to time, and 3) my brother mentioning the fact that our very own Rich Morrissey (with whom he roomed at college) was a member. Eleven years later, and I _still_ haven't joined. Maybe someday, when I've caught up on my periodicals (I'm up to June '95).... --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky L'shana tovah u'metukah (A good and sweet year) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 00:32:01 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Hulan: Thanks for correction on Arlen's song-role. Peter Hanff: Roland J. Young's questions about RPT's non-Oz books and Baum's Kingdom of Dreams -- The Thompson issue of the Baum Bugle that came out a few years back has a checklist including all of her books and pamphlets (the earlier Thompson issue's checklist also has them all). You might point out to him that the collection the Club published of The Wizard of Way-Up has the texts of some of the pamphlets. The Sissajig collection, if the Club ever decides to publish that, will have some more of them. I'll try to remember to look at the checklist when I get home and make a note of the other pamphlet titles. I'll also try to remember to check on the Kingdom of Dreams. I think it's in one of Baum's short stories, perhaps one of the two stories he added to the 1908 reprint of his American Fairy Tales collection. Rich Morrissey: I don't think that Neill was likely to have written any part of Ozoplaning with the Wizard. Reilly & Lee didn't credit Royal Book to Baum, after all -- they credited it to Thompson completing Baum's unfinished work. Which wasn't true, either, but was closer than if they'd flat said it was by Baum. Having used such a compromise billing once, they would probably have done it again if they'd wanted to make a transition between Thompson and Neill. I recall an article (by Michael Patrick Hearn?) discussing how RPT had planned the title and opening sequence to refer back to the original The Wizard in hopes that R&L would try to take advantage of the MGM movie's coming out the same year, and was considerably annoyed when there wasn't any particular attempt to publicize the connection. On joining the Oz Club and getting a life -- I'm one of the original members. In one of the early issues, Edward Wagenknecht wrote an article commenting that Oz, although fun, should not be anyone's whole life -- one should have other interests. It's odd that people always seem to worry that having a strong interest in one thing necessarily or even probably implies not being interested in other things as well. I sometimes get the feeling that there's an underlying Puritanical suspicion that anything that's fun must be bad for you. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:45:02 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Everything Shona Tova everyone! I received an e-mail from Gili this morning. She is now at Harvard and is settling in. She now has a homepage on which you can see pictures of her, and of her cats. The URL is http://www.wcwo.com/~gili/. Since the subject of early experiences with Oz has come up. I first wrote about Oz in 1959 when as a freshman at college when I wrote a research paper on "The Makers of Oz." I got an A in the course. For that course I read all the 39 Oz Books. They were still in print and you could find copies of color plate editions in second hand bookstores for $10. Eat your hearts out. Nathan: Welcome. But who is Mr. Concel? Peter: The Kingdom of Dreams appears on the endpaper Maps in TIK-TOK, but I do not think it appears anywhere else in Baum's writings. RPT had at least one other advertising pamphlet: "The Gingerbread Man" (?) IO would have to check my copy, which is at home. I want to concur with Dave's final comment today. There are no stupid questions. Or if there are, I ask plenty. Ignorance is not the same as stupidity. The ignorant does not know something. The stupid cannot learn. I was taught a paradigm (what a word--but I couldn't come out with the right one): "He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a Freshman, Shun him! He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is a Sophomore, Teach him. He who knows and knows not he knows, he is a Junior, Wake him. He who knows and knows he knows, he is a Senior, Congratulate him!" I am all four, pity me. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:45:09 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-14 thru 16-96 9/14: Robin: I've been an AARP member for years (it's cheap, and they do have some benefits), and starting last March I've even been a real RP. Dave: That was a sad story about another kid ripping apart your Oz book. The only book I can remember ever having destroyed by another student was my 10th grade Latin text, and I don't think it was personally intended, though it might have been. I inadvertently left it in a vulnerable place, and when I found it again someone had applied glue to quite a lot of the pages - enough that I had to buy another copy, which of course came out of my allowance. (Kentucky didn't furnish textbooks in high school in 1952.) 9/15: Dick: The Naperville library has most if not all of the Baum Oz books, along with a couple of his other fantasies (ZIXI and MO, as I recall). They don't have any of the other FF titles, though (or any of the non-FF Oz books, either, even though a Local Author wrote one of them...). And I know at least one of the Orange County, CA, grade schools has quite a few Oz books in its library because the librarian there asked a friend of my daughter's who teaches 5th grade why suddenly all the kids in her class were checking out Oz books. (She'd read GLASS CAT to them.) I don't remember taking any razzing from my contemporaries for reading Oz books, at least any more than I did for reading books in general. But then, I didn't make much of a point of my Oz reading, especially after grade school. And, in fact, I didn't read Oz books that much during my high school, college, and Army years, though I started up again shortly after that. I think I probably reread one every now and then when I was in HS; while I was in college and the Army my books were stored at my parents' house, and so they weren't readily available. Peter: The only Oz book in which the Kingdom of Dreams appears is TIK-TOK, and there it only appears on the map. Those maps show a number of places (Jinxland, Yips, Skeezers, Mt. Munch, Rinkitink, Pingaree, Boboland, possibly others) that had not appeared in any book Baum had yet written (or at least, published; I think he had already written KING RINKITINK, which RINKITINK IN OZ was based on). It's likely that he had a story involving the Kingdom of Dreams in mind when he put it on the map, but he didn't live long enough to write it. (I got this from Fred Meyer; I didn't work it out myself.) One might hypothesize that it was the home base of the Sandman, who appears in KABUMPO. Don: When is the "Wizard of Oz" festival in Chesterton? If it wasn't last weekend, and I'm not otherwise tied up, I'll probably try to go to it; it's not too far for me. Rich: I don't know a lot about Dorothy Fields, but I know she was a fairly prolific lyricist in the '20s and '30s, and maybe into the '40s as well. Besides Kern, I know she worked with Sigmund Romberg (ISTR she did the lyrics for NEW MOON and THE STUDENT PRINCE) and I think with Vincent Youmans. Unfortunately, I left my collections of sheet music behind when I moved, so I don't have an easy way of checking. (I do have one book that I could check which reveals that she also worked with Arlen and with Jimmy McHugh - everyone knows "On the Sunny Side of the Street", I think, which was a McHugh-Fields song.) I doubt that Neill wrote any of OZOPLANING. Attributing a Thompson book to a deceased Baum is one thing; attributing a Neill book to a very much alive, and not happy with Reilly & Lee, Thompson would be quite another. 9/16: Melody: Thompson uses coincidence a lot, I must admit, but Baum is hardly free from the fault. Tip - the rightful ruler under an enchantment - arrives in the EC at the very moment that Jinjur is overthrowing the Scarecrow? Dorothy arrives at Langwidere's palace the same day that Ozma and her army arrive there to rescue the royal family of Ev? Dorothy's party and the Wizard - and no one else - happen to be just where an earthquake opens a crack in the world and drops them all to the Kingdom of the Mangaboos? Polychrome loses her rainbow just where the Shaggy Man is going to turn up in a few minutes, not once but twice? He wasn't as bad about coincidence as Thompson, but he used it a lot. Tyler: Unless you lied about your age in your Web page, there were 50 states when you were in 2d grade. Alaska and Hawaii were admitted in 1959, and you weren't even born then, much less in 2d grade. Dave: How do I find the "Mt. Flathead" picture in your Web page? When I looked at it, I found the Emerald City (which was very nice indeed), but couldn't find Mt Flathead, although I clicked on all the plausible-sounding links. I second your plea to "newbies" to ask all the Oz questions they can think of. I have no doubt that some of them will be questions that hadn't occurred to any of us old-timers, and even if not, it gives those who know the answers an opportunity to show off! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:35:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-16-96 Regarding "Ozoplaning," I never really thought that anyone other than Thompson wrote this one. However, it is somewhat different from her other Oz works, and I suppose it could have been pozzible, but the essay in the Club edition of "Ozoplaning" (I forget who wrote it) seems to make it clear that this book was entirely the work of Thompson, just not her best work. I can only remember doing one book report on an Oz book, and this was "Land," when I was in fifth grade. This was in 1989, not the fifties, so the book was accepted at this point. I did work the Land of Oz into a lot of school assignments. One of my most recent school-related Oz works was a story that I wrote for Latin class (in English, since this was only Latin I), which took place partially in Oz and partially in Olympus. It was about the adventures of Trelnor, Prince of Tralmia, who tried to find help against the High Qui-Questioner, the Imperial Persuader, and the Lord High Upper Dupper (all from "Handy Mandy"), who had teamed up with Hecate. I am writing an Oz novel, which features Wag, Tozzyfog, and the Tin Woodman, as well as some new characters. I have not worked much on it recently, however. See Yoz, Nathan Mulac DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 12:43:34 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Wait. If Glinda is technically a *sorceress*, then who is the Good Witch of the South. Unless, of course, everyone was calling her that for simplicity/generalization or by default (I don't think Blinkie would classify!) Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:26:12 -0400 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest The only thing I want to talk about today is to second Dave's comment: This has been said so many times by so many people: The only stupid question is the one which remains unasked. There are over 100 people on this digest, and the membership is fluid, so there is always an influx of new people. Part of the purpose of this digest is to share Ozzy news and information with others, not only to increase our knowledge of Oz, but to make it a more fun and enjoyable place for all. I (and everybody else on this digest) am more than happy to answer any Ozzy question, no matter how "basic" or "fundamental". In fact, going over the basics again and again helps to remind us all of the true wonder and joy that Oz represents. As Dave said, we all have to start somewhere, and nobody will think less of anybody for any question they may ask. As a matter of fact, I have noticed a drop in Ozzy discussion, so maybe some comments and questions from rookies is just what we need! :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:36:02 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Ozzy event! Oz fans anywhere near Philadelphia won't want to miss the Longwood Gardens 1996 Chrysanthemum Festival, Oct. 26-Nov. 24. The entire event will be dominated by an Oz theme including topiary characters, and Munchkinland, the Emerald City and Haunted Forest all made of green and blooming things! An exhibit of Santore's Oz works in scheduled. Weekend events include a play, Dorothy and Friends - On the Road Again, a children's room and lots more. Additonal info can be had by writing or calling Longwood Gardens, P.O.Box 501, Kennett Square, PA 19348 (610)388-1000. This will be spectacular -- 20 "rooms" and 15,000 chrysanthemums in hanging baskets, cascades, curtains... Now, if only some handy Oz fan will remember to take photos for the Oz Observer.... Jane ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:35:53 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Maguire tour I received a notice today that Gregory Maguire, author of Wicked, will be speaking in the theater at Washburn University (Topeka, Ks) on Oct. 19. His program will be from 4 to 5 p.m. that day, with book-signing time to follow. A paperback version of the book should be on the market by then. The Washburn program is part of a national tour. You might want to check with leading bookstores in your area to see if he's coming your way, too. HarperCollins is his publisher. Jane Albright ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:45:00 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Couple of posts Don Davis, Every year I cast about looking for someone to write about the Chesterton festival for the Oz Gazette. Any chance you'd be willing to deliver? Remember that the Gazette doesn't use photos (at least, I try not to to keep costs down). The Observer does, however, if you want to contribute there instead. Whoever asked: The MGM film was first broadcast Nov. 3, 1956 as a presentation of the Ford Star Jubilee. It was on the CBS network. Jane ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 18, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= [The following message from Bear was from a few days ago and slipped by me by mistake, so I am posting it now...My humble apologies to Bear! -- Dave] Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:46:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS David/Robin - What's a "Story Circle?" Well, I guess Eric is going to stay back there in the weeds and lob an occasional Oz item into the clearing. Does anyone know if he got a job in teaching? I'm missing his cogent comments. Also among the missing, Gili. Does anyone know when she will be back in circulation? Hopefully Harvard won't keep her too busy to check in with us. Also, I have had some communication with self-described "lurkers," who have expressed anxiety that their questions/comments would not be sophisticated enough for this audience. I'm sure Dave will reiterate the ground rule that there are no "bad" questions and the Digest is for everyone from "masters" to "beginners." So be brave and make a contribution. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:49:35 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-96 David: >I first learned about the IWOC about 15 years ago from _The Oz Scrapbook_. >It was a landslide of cruel teasing from my "peers" that made me abandon >Oz for about ten years. ( Once I brought an Oz book to school, and one kid >snatched it from me, ripped out all the pages and scattered them gleefully >all over the campus. Kids can be so *sweet*! I joined the IWOC when I was seventeen, and at first, being very timid, I avoided the cruelty the easy way--I never told anyone, not even my grandparents, that I had joined. I used to try to beat my grandparents to the mailbox so I could sneak the Bugle into my room without them ever knowing. Not that I thought Oz was a vice---peers (and possibly parents and grandparents, too) think nothing of implying "Are you still into that kid stuff?" Later on, when nobody could mistake me for a kid anymore, I became unashamed and most outspoken about it! I could even get downright belligerent with teasers. "Yeah, I'm into kid stuff! Whaddayawannamakeofit?" "I'm not ugly, YOU'RE a beauty-bigot!" "I'm too tall? Eat your heart out!" I'd do it playfully, of course, but potential tormentors got the point. Namely, I will NOT be tormented! I will be NOT be ashamed of my oddities! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:16:13 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-16-96 On Ozians of Odd Colors! "The Disenchented Princess of Oz" supplies an explanation for Ozians with purple, blue, red, and yellow skins--Zim explains in passing that "tintaderma viola" ( a magic berry that turns the eater temporarily purple!) is eaten by overly patrotic Gillikins! The reader is left to surmise that there may be similar magic berries for overly patriotic people of other Oz provinces. Robin: That Fred Otto story has not arrived yet! :-( Hope the Omniverous Postal Beast has not consumed it! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:50:51 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest I looked into the short stories added to the 1908 "Baum's American Fairy Tales," and I see I was wrong in thinking the Dream Kingdom came from there. The proximity to homelands of Emerald City villains suggests that Baum might have been thinking of it as a kingdom more of nightmares than of pleasant dreams. I wonder, though, if RPT was thinking of it as being the Sand Man's kingdom, when she had him show up to the north, in Ev, in "Kabumpo." Peter Hanff: And I looked into the RPT checklist. The "Way-Up" collection the Club published includes one of her advertising pamphlets, "The Prince of the Gelatin Isles," and one and three halves of the pamphlets reprinting pairs of her "Ledger Color Supplement" contributions ("Land of Nod/ "Rockinghorse Hill," "Princess White Mouse," "Lucky Peter," and "The Apple Pie Princess"). Besides those two groups of short books or booklets, there was also the group of texts she wrote anonymously for picture book versions of some assorted Disney cartoons for the McKay Company. The other ad pamphlets were "The Little Gingerbread Man," "Billy in Bunbury," and "The Comical Cruise of Captain Cooky" (for Royal Baking Powder) and "The Amazing Adventures of Jack B. Nimble" and "A Tip-Top Time on the Rubber Road." The other "Color Supplement" titles were "Old Doc Turtle," "Poor Teddy," "Willie and the Pirates," the pair of "Tommy in Topsy Turvy Land" poems, the pair of "Tommy Frog" poems, and "Brother and Sister Goose"/"Tale of a Pink Flamingo." It hasn't been definitely established which McKay/Disney titles she wrote, but probably all except the Mickey Mouse ones. I own copies of "Little Red Riding Hood and the Big Bad Wolf" and "Peculiar Penguins," and it's stylistically obvious that she wrote those two. Rich Morissey and Tyler Jones: And I looked at Michael Patrick Hearn's article on RPT for the "Dictionary of Literary Biography," and see that my recollection was right that he discusses RPT's aims of closing off her Oz books by going back to the "Wizard" characters for her main characters and opening scenes in "Ozoplaning." Some other points, too, make it improbable to the point of being impossible that Neill could have had any hand in writing "Ozoplaning." The chief one is: RPT wouldn't have stood for it. Also, the style is obviously hers (as in "Cande and fire light are much cozier for parties, and it all looked so cheery and gay...."), and the interest in Oz history is typical of her and not of Neill. And the character Bustabo was so much hers that she took him out of Oz and into Sissajig a couple of years later. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:39:17 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest - Fields I took a bit of time to look at the bit on Dorothy Fields in Philip Furia's "The Poets of Tin Pan Alley" (a book about song-lyric writers). She got her start in songs through her father, but her father was not W.C. Fields, but Lew Fields, a vaudeville star who stayed on the stage. The whole family seems to have been in the business. Her best known works are actually not her songs, but the "books" she wrote for musical plays, which included the book of "Annie Get Your Gun," in collaboration with her brother Herbert Fields, and "South Pacific," in collaboration with Jack Fields, who I suppose is another brother. Glinda's category of magic-working: Tyler Jones commented that the use of "witch" to describe Glinda in the first book is an error and she is "really" (as usually called later on) a sorceress; Danny asked in that case who is the Good Witch of the South. I'd add to Danny's point that there isn't any etymological justification to consider a sorceress anything other than a witch. The two terms come from different languages, but mean the same -- someone who works magic. The emotional connotations are slightly different in English, as "sorcerer/sorceress" is less familiar and to that extent less frightening (in French, "sorcier/sorciere" is just as frightening as "witch" is in English). Baum doesn't seem to have intended any real distinction between the two terms. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:24:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: _The Woozy of Oz_ 1) _The Woozy of Oz_ has now been submitted for publication. Now all I have to do is pray that the people at Tor Books like it... 2) Yes, Danny, Glinda _is_ the Good Witch of the South; I thought that was clear in _The Wizard of Oz_. Apparently either "witch" is a very fuzzy term in Oz or the general translation spell mutated a bit between _Wizard_ and _Land_. My Old Ozzish linguistic informant, Professor Dharnenblagh the Inscrutible of the Royal Athletic College, tells me that while the old language was still widely spoken, which lasted well into the Time of the Wizard, ruling witches of the four quadrants of Oz were referred to using the noun _tat_ (whence Tattypoo = tattipu "witch-queen of the north") rather than other terms, such as _maga_ ("witch/warlock"), _yishan_ ("wizard/wizardess"), or _yukuhu_ ("yookoohoo"). When Oz went Anglophone, there was no appropriate word to replace _tat_. Therefore Glinda ended up being called "the Good Witch of the South" or "the Good Sorceress of the South", depending on the speaker's preference. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:59:56 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Emerald City Mirror Just got my Royal Club of Oz edition of the EC Mirror yesterday. Nice to see your GLASS CAT in it, David. (Still trying to convince Baruch that he should enter one of those contests in the next two years, while he still qualifies for the Junior Division....) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:31:31 -0400 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Mike: It's true that the "intro" part, where the author sets the scene can be a little dry, especially for small kids. As a "geography nerd", among other things, I loved it, although I was certainly "different" as a kid. It can't compare to the ultiamte in mind-crushing boredom. I once had to read a book that had a prefix, a forewood, an introduction, a prologue, and epilogue, an afterword and a postfix! Not only were these about 15-20 pages each, we were TESTED on them! :-( Kingdom of Dreams: David's theory is the most logical one, unless somebody can find it in one of Baums's short stories. Ironically enough, the only place this kingdom of dreams lived was in his dreams. My age, as reported on my web page, is correct (born 1969). When I said 48 states, I meant 48 at the time when the Baum 14 were being written. Nathan: Uh, oh. Your new book may cause the specter of copyrights to rear its ugly head. Uncle Tozzyfog is a minor character, and I doubt the Thompson estate would care, but Wag was a major character in _Kabumpo in Oz_. However, I doubt that legal action would be taken at this late date. Danny and the Benevolent Thaumaturge of the southwest: Glinda is indeed the Good Witch of the South, so mentioned in _The Wizard of Oz_. We learn later that she is really a sorceress. MOPPeT is that GLinda has always been a sorceress, but that most people, not knowing much about her, simply assumed that she was a witch, since other female magic-workers were also witches. To most people, any woman who practices magic is a witch. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 20:49:44 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuf Hello everybody! Well, I just finished HUNGRY TIGER, my first Thompson book I've ever read since when I was in elementary school. (Even if it wasn't the best one to start with, it was one of the very few in the library's immediate colletion, and I happened to have finished all my Baums so far. . .) ****NO SPOILERS (I THINK) BUT DISCUSSION OF HUNGRY TIGER***** (Most of you have prob'ly read it anyway) Let me start with what I thought was *good* about it. :) 1) Betsy Bobbin! I hadn't really seen Betsy as a major character (I almost said "even in TIKTOK") :o 2) Having Betsy wonder what is taking Ozma so long to rescue her! At first I thought Thompson was having a small joke, but Betsy's subsequent musings helped actually to heighten the suspence of certain scenes, and helped soften the blow when Ozma actually does show up-- what a way to do it, RPT! 3) Uhm, well, that's about it, actually. . . Tomorrow I want to discuss what I thought was *bad* (don't worry, I'll try to keep it a short post Danny ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 18-Sep-96 01:32:52 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things I have two days to respond to, so here we go... MIKE T.'S SON: I know it's really none of my business, but why aren't you reading the books to him in order, or at least starting with the (nearly) undisputed good ones like _Patchwork Girl_, _Ozma_, _Scarecrow_, etc.? _ROYAL BOOK OF OZ_: The edition of _Royal Book_ in my library says on the cover, "By L. Frank Baum" period. Did R&L do some waffling in various editions of the book? "READ OZ BOOKS, BUT YOU SHOULDN'T ENJOY THEM": I agree with you, Ruth, that there is a certain Puritanical uptightness in society about really liking and enjoying things, including Oz. Some people of course think that anything one does that is not clearly "work" must be "idleness". (This is of course part of puritanical thinking as well.) It's sad though, to think that there are Oz fans as you describe who themselves try to politician-style water down their own love due to "Ozite's Remorse" and say things like "Well, it's okay to like Oz, but not too much." "SCHOOL DAYS, SCHOOL DAYS...": In answer to someone's question (sorry, I again forget who), that incident with my book getting torn up happened in 7th grade and my book report on _Merry-Go-Round_ was in 8th grade. No one gave me trouble then because 8th was the highest grade and the older kids who gave me most of the trouble had graduated and left; and no one in the younger grades dared pick on anyone in the graduating class! But then when I started high school the teasing started anew, and I abandoned Oz (along with a lot of other things) for many -- TOO many -- years. FLATHEAD PICTURE: David, the picture of Mount Flathead is at the top of the Ozzy Digest FAQ page (http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Ozzy_FAQ.html). Let me know if you still can't see it. BTW folks, please visit my web site when I announce a change/addition and browse through it, if only to ascertain the links all work -- If there's a problem with one of my pages, I want to know. I count on you guys to be my "Beta-testers". :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 19, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 07:35:03 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission Learning about IWOC: On impluse in the summer of 1980, I bought a remaindered copy of David Green & Dick Martin's _The Oz Scrapbook_. This brought back strong childhood memories of the Oz books. (The town library in Longmeadow, Massachusetts in the early 50s was so behind the times that it still carried many of the series books -- Oz, Burroughs, Sax Rohmer... I read them all.) I was inspired to write to Fred Meyer and joined the Club the following January. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:41:14 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-18-96 Aaron: Congrats on the submission! Hatzlacha... Melody: Like your explanation about the berries. Tyler: You do mean "48 states by the _end_ of the Baum 14", right? (only since 1912). When he started writing them, there were fewer (*mumble*....Oklahoma added as 46th in 1908, f'rinstance....) Glorious Leader: > MIKE T.'S SON: > I know it's really none of my business, but why aren't you reading the books > to him in order, or at least starting with the (nearly) undisputed good ones > like _Patchwork Girl_, _Ozma_, _Scarecrow_, etc.? > Well, I did read WIZARD to him first (not including the Shanower graphic novels, which I actually read to him before that. The reason I read him DOTWIZ second was (*ducks before the rotting vegetables*).....I don't own a copy of LAND and OZMA! I read them when I was young, and I didn't see the need for buying books I had already read (*watches in alarm as faggots are being gathered for burning him for heresy*). As for why RINKITINK, as I mentioned, it happened to be lying around, so he wanted me to read that one. And, just to add more fuel to your already-growing loathing for me, I should mention that the editions that I am reading him out of are.....the Del Rey trade paperbacks! (I'm not a collector. I've read the hardback reprints in libraries, but I buy books for content, not for design. Sorry) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky P. S. As far as non-chronology goes, I myself never read the books in order. I only read WIZARD for the first time last year!!! The first I read were LAND and OZMA (which my brother owned) when I was probably about 8 (1970). Later, I found a neighbor who owned MAGIC, PIRATES, and others that I can't recall now. I bought the Del Reys when they came out to fill in the gaps, and most recently, when I worked in Massachusetts before getting married (1991) read some of the later Thompsons (WISHING HORSE, GIANT HORSE, and SPEEDY among others, I think). I didn't finish their collection before I had to move away... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 11:55:30 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-17 & 18-96 9/17: Barbara: I could guess that since the popularity of Oz books was dropping through the Thirties (which was one reason Thompson gave up writing them), there are fewer copies of the 1st of HANDY MANDY around than there are of HUNGRY TIGER, so it can sell for more. But that's purely a conjecture on my part; maybe Robin or Herm has a better explanation. (OTOH, HUNGRY TIGER would have color plates, and HANDY MANDY wouldn't, which ought to make the former more desirable, I'd think.) And maybe the owner of that bookstore just has erratic pricing policies... Mike: RINKITINK is one of my favorite Baum books, but it's probably harder for a kid to get into than most of his books. (And as you say, it doesn't have much connection with Oz.) Steve: I hope Gili gets settled and can rejoin us soon. I miss her posts. Mr. Concel was a character - the father of the juvenile protagonist - in "The Umbrella Island of Oz", in the 1996 OZIANA. 9/18: Bear: The "Story Circle" is a group within the IWOC of people who write Oz stories and send them to a central point (used to be Fred Meyer, but Andrea Yussman is now doing it), where they're reproduced and sent out to other members of the Story Circle. It's a frequent source of stories for OZIANA. Ruth: I agree that it's virtually impossible that Neill had anything to do with OZOPLANING (other than illustrating it, of course). It's true, though, that the character of the Wizard in that book resembled Neill's version of the character more than it did either Baum's or Thompson's earlier version. In Baum (and Snow) the Wizard is a wise, kind, and rather humble man. In Thompson's other books, he's vain, arrogant, and selfish, and always trying to prove that he's a better magic-worker and cleverer than anyone else around (almost like a human Woggle-bug). In OZOPLANING and the Neill books, he's much nicer than he is in Thompson's earlier books, but is much more forward than in Baum. However, I think it's more likely that Neill was influenced by the last Oz book he illustrated than that Thompson was influenced by Neill. (The other FF authors didn't use the Wizard enough to get a character reading on their version.) Thanks for the added info on Dorothy Fields. Baum did imply in LAND that there's some kind of difference between a witch and a sorceress, when he said Mombi couldn't be a witch, but only a sorceress, or at most a wizardess. But I don't think he had a serious distinction in mind, as, say, Lawrence Watt-Evans makes in his Ethshar books (where sorcery, IIRC, draws on an external source of power from the demonic levels, whereas witchcraft is an inborn psychic talent that can be developed with practice). Aaron: Good luck at Tor. I suggest you don't pin your hopes too high, though; getting a general-fantasy publisher to publish a new Oz book that's FF-consistent hasn't happened yet, and I'm not optimistic that it's likely to. Mike: Gee, I wish _I_ had gotten my copy of the EC MIRROR. I have a bad feeling, though, that it may have gone to my California address; even though I've sent multiple CoA's to both BoW and RCOO, I've yet to get anything from them that wasn't forwarded from CA. And the PO doesn't usually forward anything but 1st-class mail and parcels after the first 60 days. What did the latest ECM have to say about GLASS CAT? (E-mail me privately if it's not likely to be of general Digest interest.) Tyler: Well, strictly speaking there were 45 states when Baum's first three Oz books were written, 46 for the next four, and 48 for the rest. The final FF book was written when there were 50 states, though. But I get your meaning this time, anyhow. I don't think Nathan is likely to get into copyright trouble with his Oz book, especially since he specifies that he "is writing" it, not "has written". Copyright isn't an issue until there's publication, and KABUMPO goes PD in 1998, little more than a year from now. Based on the length of time from MS submission to publication at ECP for GLASS CAT, and on what Chris has said about his backlog at BEOO, it seems highly unlikely to me that Nathan's book could be published before 1998 even if he already had a completed MS in hand, unless he published it at his own expense. (All this assumes that existing copyrights aren't extended again, of course.) Danny: I thought there were a lot more good things about HUNGRY TIGER than you list. I liked the character of the tiger himself (he certainly gets his biggest role in the FF here), I found Reddy one of her better boy-heroes (I liked him better than Peter, and much better than Bob Up or Tatters or Snip or Tandy, though not as much as Speedy or Randy), and I thought Irashi and Ippty were more plausible villains than most. And the plot moves along smartly, with fewer digressions than a lot of the FF. This is not to deny that the book has several weaknesses as well, of course; I rate it about the middle among Thompson's books (and among the FF in general for that matter). Dave: I think all the editions of ROYAL BOOK show Baum as the author on the cover and spine, but the foreword by the publishers credits Thompson with finishing the book from Baum's notes (which wasn't, acto Thompson, true; she wrote the book from scratch). Ah, I didn't check your FAQ link because I'd already read the FAQ when you sent it out to Digest members. I'll go back and do that today. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 10:19:48 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Oz Dave: I went to the URL you gave (http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Ozzy_FAQ.html), and all I fouond was a gray screen with the word "Files." I do not think this is what you intended. Perhaps others have had better luck. Barbara DeJohn's question, "How would I know if it is a first edition?" calls attention to the need for a BIBLIOGRAPHIA BAUMIANA to go with the BIB OZ already published. This has been an ongoing project in the BAUM BUGLE for decades, but the material was only collected once, as a premium for special memberships, and is probably somewhat out of date. There have been some books that have appeared in BIB BAUM articles in recent BUGLES, but the process is a slow one. Dave: THE ROYAL BOOK OF OZ was published as is it had been written by RPT from notes by LFB. In the preface to GLINDA it is stated that LFB had left an unfinished book. This was a "pious fiction" by Reilly & Lee to make the transition to RPT as the new author. No edition of ROYAL BOOK published by R&L credited the book to RPT. The Del Rey paperback was the first time she was credited on the cover. No book published by R&L had au author's name (other than Baum's)on the spine until MERRY GO ROUND. It should be noted that the title "Royalk Historian of Oz" was only applied to Baum by R&L. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:20:30 -0400 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Gili's page: Could whoever posted Gili's URL confirm it? I got a message that the server does not exist. Witches and Sorceresses: MOPPeT remains unchanged. The titles of people who work magic are generally self-bestowed, or possibly spread by rumor. A person's title does not necessarily define what kind of magic-worker they are, but I believe that there are different ways magic is manifested, and that sometimes, people pick their titles based on what kind of magic they do. Therefore, terms like witch and sorcerer may not be very different, but they can be. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 13:19:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-96 Barb: If you really want a copy of the L.& A. of SANTA CLAUS that's in that condition, $75 doesn't seem an outrageous price. I'm at school now and don't have access to the edition points, nor do I remember them at this moment. If no one else responds to you about this by tomorrow, I'll check for you then. Some book dealers price a book according to what they paid for it. This may explain the discrepancy between the prices of the two firsts in equivalent condition. Also, HANDY MANDY used to be harder to find in 1st. than H. TIGER. I don't find this true anymore, but it may be part of the explanation. We're glad you're glad to be back! Bear: "The Oz Story Circle" is an essentially defunct group of writers who would write and share their fiction. Fred Meyer ran it. The xeroxing and mailing costs must have been astounding--prohibitive for most of us, so the thing is dormant now. It was fun. Dave: RPT wrote all of ROYAL BOOK. R&L were simply afraid to kill the goose that had laid so many golden eggs for them. They trusted the Baum name to bring in buyers, so they (gasp) lied. Flat out lied. When the book proved to sell well, they allowed Ruth to list her name as author. Haven't you ever noticed how prominent Baum's name is on her books? OZOPLANING: I really don't think Neill wrote any of the book. I'm mildly surprised that others give credence to this theory. As Ruth Berman points out, it's clearly in RPT's style. It's not her strongest book. Her disgruntlement with R&L certainly wasn't much of a motivator to write a fine story. Kingdom of Dreams: FWIW, I can't find it either, other than on the ep's. I looked for it for a coupla days, but now I just give up. I agree that Baum just never got 'round to writing about it. --R. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:39:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-18-96 Aaron-Good comments on Old Ozish. Dave-All early versions of _Royal Book_ attribute the book to Baum, although it was entirely the work of Thompson. Tyler-I am writing the novel mostly for my own enjoyment, and do not know if it will be published. Also, I have heard that _Kabumpo_ is now in the public domain. --Nathan Mulac DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 19:53:57 -0400 From: BuckyB12@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 9-17 Barbara De John: Since no one jumped to answer your question re: relative prices, perhaps a former bookseller (and first-time poster) can offer a guess or two. I would say that the proprietor knew a little about Oz books, enough to know that HANDY MANDY was one of the four Thompson titles *not* reprinted by Del Rey (while HUNGRY TIGER was) and presumably was harder to come by. Given that the two first editions were in the same condition, this might account for the wide variation in price. Also, s/he might not know that the IWOC did reprint those four titles later, rendering any assumptions about availability null and void. It's also possible that the price might be connected to the original print runs; HANDY MANDY might have had a smaller run than HUNGRY TIGER (11 years earlier) for any number of reasons, and therefore be rarer. To All: OK, if newbie questions are to be encouraged, I've got one. In Dave's Ozzy FAQ, he mentions that Snow's WHO'S WHO IN OZ contains "omissions and inaccuracies." Omissions I can understand (maybe an editorial decision to keep the book to a certain length), but I'd like to hear more about its inaccuracies, as it's a favorite title of mine (I haven't read much beyond Baum's 14, admittedly). Dwayne Best (hangs head and returns to lurking upon discovering that this topic has been covered completely, two weeks before I signed on) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 20:19:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-18-96 > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS > > Well, I guess Eric is going to stay back there in the weeds and lob an > occasional Oz item into the clearing. Well, you DID call me a pompous blowhard of a know-it-all in e-mail. Do you want me here or not? Perhaps I just have very little to say, and now see very little to respond to, is all. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 19-Sep-96 01:54:53 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things RINKITINK IN OZ: _Rinkitink_ is not so much an "Oz Book" as an "Oz Spinoff" (like _Maude_ or _Rhoda_ or something). :) :) MY 2 CENTS ON "PUBLISHABLE" OZ BOOKS: I feel I should respond to David H.'s comments to Aaron about his book. It is true that so far no "mainstream" publisher has published an FF-consistant Oz book, but has anyone tried??? I have this suspicion (maybe I'm wrong about this, and if so you can set me straight) that many excellent Oz writers have never submitted their work to a non-Oz-commited publisher because they have been told on numerous occasions that any publisher will dismiss an Oz-related manuscript out of hand. (Has anyone on the Digest submitted their work to a non-Oz-specialized publisher?) So I would not be so quick to dismiss the possibility that Aaron (or any of us) will ever get our Ozzy work accepted by a "mainstream" press. Because how can it if it's never submitted in the first place? (I must say that I have not dismissed the possibility of *me* at some point submitting an Oz book to a non-Oz-devoted publisher!) So Aaron, I wish you luck with your book, and persevere even if the first few publishers reject it! As I say in my FAQ, it seems to me that if some Oz author managed to get an FF-consistant Oz book published with a "general-fantasy" press, it could revolutionize the world of Oz, and possibly even hearld the start of a new era of extra-MGM (read "extra" as the prefix meaning "outside of") Oz popularity! (And short-circuit the threat of the emergence of a generation of Americans who believe that Ozma, Tik-Tok, Winkies, etc. were invented by Gregory Maguire!!!) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 20, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:29:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rebecca M. Bichel" Subject: Distance from Emerald City to Munchkin Country I've been a silent member of the digest for a while now, and my first comment is actually a query. A library patron has asked the distance from Munchkin Country to the Emerald City. I thought I would ask the experts. Answer anyone? Thanks. Rebecca ______________________________________________________________________________ Rebecca Bichel rbichel@liberty.uc.wlu.edu "Never try to outstubborn a cat." - Lazarus Long ______________________________________________________________________________ ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:58:13 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: OZ and GILI The Wizard in OZOPLANING and Neill: Neill's Wizard, especially in WONDER CITY and SCALAWAGONS has a characteristic we do not see in him in any of the other books: he is a master of disguise who likes to fool people, and who makes sudden, unexplained disappearances as a matter of course. The Wizard in OZOPLANING does not demonstrate this quality. This is further reason to doubt that JFN wrote OZOPLANING. The essay by Michael Patrick Hearn published as an afterword to the IWOC edition gives much information about the creation of that book and RPT's dealings with R&L. I strongly recommend it. Concerning Tandy: RPT is supposed to have said that CAPT'N SALT was one of her favorite of her books. I had wondered about that because it is the only Oz book that takes place completely outside of Oz and it has a very episodic plot. I do recognize one special virtue in the book, however. Tandy is one of the few characters who actually shows growth in the course of a book. Most of the characters are static; what they are at the beginning is what they are at the end. Tandy, OTOH, begins as a spoiled brat who demands special treatment as "a king and the son of a king's son" that Capt'n Salt and Ato are ready to just drop off and get rid of, but he grows into a brave, likable comrade. There are characters, such as Kabumpo and Nox, whose sometimes unpleasant exteriors hide a kind and noble inside, but they do not really grow and change, we only see what they are. Only Tandy and Skamperoo in WISHING HORSE show true charqacter growth. (Jenny Jump may be considered another, but her growth comes from magical means.) Dwayne: At least one inaccuaarcy in WHO'S WHO is Snow's description of Omby Amby who he describes as the Guardian of the Gates. There are others (the first appearance of the Red Jinn suddenly comes to mind) but I can not remember them off the top of my head. Gili's homepage (which is headed "Welcome to Gili's Homepage!") has the URL: http://www.scso.com/~gili/ I just checked it and it is there. I just checked what I had typed in the Sept 17 digest and mate that I typed "wcwo" instead of "scso"; I may have led many others than just Tyler astray. I should read my entries more carefully. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:13:46 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Dave Hardenbrook and Nathan Mulac DeHoff: The cover credit on "Royal Book" claims it's by Baum, but if you check the title page you'll see the byline claimed is closer to truth -- by Baum, "enlarged and edited" by RPT. Still not true, but not the same as crediting the book to Baum alone. Dwayne Best: There weren't many inaccuracies in Snow's "Who's Who," but there were a few. One fairly large one is his belief that the Guardian of the Gates and the Soldier with the Green Whiskers were the same person. The page numbers that he gives for when a character is first introduced in a book are sometimes in error, too, and that's maybe about it. Most of the omissions of characters are a matter of leaving out minor characters, but some largish ones omitted are the Blue Dragon, the princesses of Ev and the princes other than Evardo and Evring (well, and Evered), Lurline, the Grandfathers of Ozma and of Peter, and so on. If you're interested in the topic, you might want to buy the "Who's Who in Oz Appendix" which I edited from notes by James E. Haff. (My address is 2809 Drew Ave S, Mpls MN 55416; price is $5.) Tyler Jones: It isn't really clear from your last few sets of comments if you're saying that such titles as "Witch" and "Sorceress" have clear meanings that the characters do not always use correctly, or if you're saying that they are vague descriptive terms and do not have clear meanings to begin with. It seems to me that they are all vague terms meaning "someone who works magic," but at some points you seem to be arguing that the terms have more precise meanings that the characters sometimes use and sometimes don't use. I think you're trying to go for "precise" meanings "sometimes" not used, but in practical terms, that comes out to very much the same thing as not having precise meanings at all. David Hulan points out that in "Land" Baum implies differences of rank between "witch" (apparently most powerful) and "sorceress" and "wizardess," but that he doesn't seem to have meant those distinctions seriously. Certainly, the passage doesn't match up with the amount of power Glinda has, and you've been arguing that she is not "really" a Witch, as she is described in "Wizard," but is "really" a Sorceress, as described in "Land" and most (but not all) the passages in Baum's later books. Incidentally, Robert Luehrs had an interesting article on Baum's use of witches, including some discussion of the inconsistencies in Baum's uses of such terms, in the Autumn 1994 "Bugle." Dave Hardenbrook on optimistic view of trying to get an Oz book published commercially: I don't know of any Oz-writers who have tried submitting their work commercially, but I do know of several examples of writers who were in the middles of series when their publishers decided to change focus and turned down the next book, and who then found it (at least so far -- some are still alive and trying) to get any other commercial publisher to accept a book set in a series identified with another publisher. Someone who likes to try long shots might want to try anyway, but the odds are obviously bad. And it often takes commercial publishers an incredibly long time (generally months -- and often years) to go through the unagented submissions and say no to all of them. Books of Wonder and Chris Dulabone offer vastly better odds. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:29:13 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-96 Mike: No desire to burn you for heresy, but _Baruch_ hasn't read LAND or OZMA, so I'd think it would make sense, if he likes having Oz stories read to him, to buy them especially for that purpose. (It's not as if they're hard to find; just about any decent bookstore has the Del Rey editions, at least, and the better ones have the Dover and BoW editions as well. We're not talking OJO or PURPLE PRINCE here.) But it's your kid and your collection. And I didn't read the books in order for the first time, either, though I've reread them in order several times over the years. I did read WIZARD first, but the next one I read was WISHING HORSE, and the three after that (I don't recall the order) were EMERALD CITY, MAGIC, and LUCKY BUCKY. LAND and OZMA were among the last I read as a kid, though I didn't read CAPTAIN SALT, HANDY MANDY, HIDDEN VALLEY, WONDER CITY, SCALAWAGONS, or MERRY-GO-ROUND until I was an adult. (Of course, the last one wasn't written till I was an adult!) Steve: I couldn't get anything when I tried the URL for Dave's FAQ yesterday, either, but that's the sort of thing that's happened to me before, and it often clears up the next day. I'll try it again today sometime. Nathan: As I said yesterday, KABUMPO isn't public domain yet, but will be at the beginning of 1998. Dwayne: I haven't really perused WHO'S WHO IN OZ myself looking for inaccuracies, but I've had a couple pointed out to me; unfortunately, I can't remember what they were. (One that was mentioned as such that I don't agree with was its characterization of Cap'n Bill as "an old sailor"; it's true that in SCARECROW Baum says he's "not so very old", but he also calls him "the old sailor" repeatedly, both in that book and others.) Dave: I wasn't trying to discourage Aaron-hey, if he can get Tor or Del Rey or Ace or Baen or the like to buy a new FF-consistent Oz book, it can't do anything but open up opportunities for the rest of us as well! I wish him the best of luck, but I didn't want him to be too disappointed if it's rejected. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:47:36 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 9-19-96 Steve T: I too, like Tyler, was unable to access Gili's web page. Long time IWOC members: I have been a member for only four years, and in time, perhaps, some of these things will become evident to me, but Bear's question about the "Story Circle" brought to mind a couple of others that I have wondered about. What are Special Memberships? Each year I receive a list of "Contributing" and "Sustaining" members, who are thanked for their special support, but nowhere is there an explanation of what these terms mean, or how one can "give" special support. (I can only assume support of a financial nature) Also, in 1995 there were "Ozzy" products being sold by the Centennial Committee in order to raise funds for the upcoming celebration. Was this a Club committee? And if so, why weren't members made more aware of it? Just wondering. "Curious Dick" Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:51:20 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuf HUNGRY TIGER: David-- Yes, I did like the way the Hungry Tiger was handled. Not only did show some vunerablity and some character growth, but he made a good catalyst for the initial action of the story. (Not bad for a self-titled book-- Most Baums you have to wait for half the book to see the titled character!) I say the same for the villans. The scribe made a good Rasputin-esque villain. One more thing I liked-- the remorse that Ozma showed in "escaping" Atmos Fere (Am I going to have to wince every time I hear a Thompsonian name like that? My mother told me if I did that too much my face would stick) Ozma realized she was committing act akin to murder. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:54:31 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Ozzy Digest stuf (Did you get this already?) *****Continued discussion of HUNGRY TIGER******' I few more points I thought I might throw out for discussion: 1)Actually one more thing I liked about it was the action in Ev. I know lands outside Oz may not get explored over and over, but it was kinda nice to have a bit more exploration of Ev, although there wasn't much, aside from the (g)nome king that was recongnizable. 2)A couple things I didn't like-- Too many plots! Not only was there the plot about the Tiger, but then the "rightful prince" of Rash plot, then "escape from the next land within Ev" and then the thing with Ozma! 3)Along the same lines, there were too many coincidences. First, the Winding Road, and then "oh look. There happens to be these Quick Sandals lying right here." The Tiger was finding out about Prince Reddy when who should drop in for a "bite?" Isn't it amazing how those rubies show up just at the right time? Then Ozma wished for a house, and lo and behold, she happened to have wish powder in her pocket! When I got to that part, I literally said out loud "oh give me a break." I know, that didn't turn out quite as pat as it could have, which made it funny in a way. (Sigh.) Still, I actually *liked* the book. The focus on the minor characters was great. As much as I like the more famous heroes, it was great to see some minor characters see the spotlight. Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:00:01 -0400 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Mike: I, at least, will not sneak up on you with a bucket of tar and feathers. I myself am not a collector in the sense that I seek first editions. I only have one of those (_Wonder City_) and the rest are reprints. All I want is the story and the illos; I don't especially require firsts. For example, My March Laumers are literally pages held together by rubber bands! Steve: One solution is for you to go to http://www.netscape.com and download their latest beta version, or bite the bullet and buy it. Nathan: According to David, _Kabumpo_ will go PD in 98, according to the 75-year rule, so there should be no problems should you decide to submit it to someone. Dwayne: Glad to hear from you! As far as I know, this topic may never have been discussed, and I am *NOT* going to pile through the six megs of backup digests to check! :-) Anyway, I can't think of any "inaccuracies" offhand, though I am sure some others will. Dave, David and Aaron: While it is true that only non-FF-compliant books have been published by commercial publishers (_Barnstormer_, _Wicked_, _Was_, etc.), I do not know if anyone has ever actually tried. Hopefully, Aaron's book will be accepted and Dave's vision of a new era of Oz will begin! I would love nothing better than to walk into a bookstore and see _The Woozy of Oz_ on prominent display. Also, Dave I can sympathize. I remember reading the article in USA Today about _Wicked_. The writer praised Maguire no end for his richness of imagnination in fleshing the world created by MGM. AAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!!!! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 13:05:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-96 Story Circle: It's NOT defunct? Hmmm. URLs: I got into Dave's stuff just fine, but I can't access Gili's. I get a dialogue box telling me that my browser(s) can't find the server. Here's a laugh for y'all: You know how computer-literate I'm NOT. I'm going to sponsor some kids in making a homepage that will be judged in a national competition of some sort. I got suckered into the job; it's hard to turn down kids who've been in my classes. I agreed to do it, but explained that the kids would have to have the techno-knowledge, since I certainly don't. If I get in over my head, I'm hoping I can holler for help to some of you who have tried to bail me out in the past. (???) Please.... ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:13:58 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Art Explosion I meant to include this in my Digest contribution and then forgot it, so you get two posts from me today. I recently acquired a 5-CD-ROM set of clip art called "Art Explosion 40,000", which was a cheap add-on when I got the upgrade to MasterJuggler. If you're into clip art it's got a ton of it, but the item of interest to the Digest is that it includes quite a bit of Oz art in a digital form that lets you size, shape, and modify it if you want to. Most of the Oz-based illustrations are Denslow art from WIZARD or Neill art from, oddly enough, TIK-TOK, though there are a few from LAND and PATCHWORK GIRL. There may be some others that I haven't spotted. Just thought I'd mention it if anyone is interested. It's available for Mac or Windows. David ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:27:39 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-96 David Hulan: > What did the latest ECM > have to say about GLASS CAT? (E-mail me privately if it's not likely to be of > general Digest interest.) Oh, they published a large excerpt from it. Didn't they let you know that ahead of time? (From the finding of the genie to the arrival in Oz. If they edited it, I do not know, as I have not read your original.) FWIW, I thought it quite well-written. Tyler: > Could whoever posted Gili's URL confirm it? I got a message that the server > does not exist. Me, too. I was gonna ask about this myself. Robin: > Bear: "The Oz Story Circle" is an essentially defunct group of writers > who would write and share their fiction. Fred Meyer ran it. The > xeroxing and mailing costs must have been astounding--prohibitive for > most of us, so the thing is dormant now. It was fun. > This is probably anethma to bibliophiles, but in this day and age APA (=Amateur Press Association, before anyone asks)-like things could be done on the internet, no? And the cose would have been minimal. Fearless Leader > (And short-circuit the threat of the emergence of a generation of > Americans who believe that Ozma, Tik-Tok, Winkies, etc. were invented > by Gregory Maguire!!!) Who? --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:14:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-18-96 I enjoyed several things about _Hungry Tiger_, although it was not really Thompson's best work. For one thing, it had great villains. Ippty's fingers were quite interesting, and Kaliko's personality helped to reconcile the differences between this Nome's character in _Tik-Tok_ and _Rinkitink_. The heroes were also good characters. Parts of the book were a little slow, however, and the Barber and Singer did not really contribute anything to the story, although they did not really hurt it. It seems that Thompson was in a hurry to drop these characters, since they stayed at the first village they came to. The story also leaves a lot of loose ends. As far as I know, nothing written after _Hungry Tiger_, with the exception of my own not-too-famous story , "Asha's Homecoming," has anything to do with Rash. There are many inaccuracies in _Who's Who_. I have tried to list all of them, but the list is still sitting in my computer. --Nathan Mulac DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:43:38 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: On being tormented... I, like Melody, just avoided telling people of my Oz interest to keep from being teased. I only avoided telling my classmates--grandparents and other grown-ups are fine--and even then my best friends knew. Now, it doesn't matter--I don't care what people think and hopefully at my age people are mature enough not to think its stupid (and when you're 6 ft, 185 lbs, very into sports and extremely energetic, no one dares test how you would respond to teasing anyway--not that I've given them any reason to believe I'd take drastic action, that's not like me). Nate ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 16:17:31 -0400 From: Homer On the subject of sorcery and witchcraft: In Robert R. Pattrick's "Unexplored Territory in Oz", he mentions workers of magic. The following is selected parts of this section. As in most professions, magic-workers are graded or scaled. First there are the "general practitioners"-those persons who know a little bit about a lot of magic, but not a great deal about any one area. These are "witches" and "magicians". Next are the specialists, who concentrate on one particular field. These, in ability, may rank below, equal to, or superior to witches and magicians depending on the type and extent of magic they perform. In Oz, the largest group of specialists are "sorceresses". These women are able, through their magic arts, to "devine" the hopes and fears, strengths and weaknesses of individuals and then, with this knowledge, to control those persons to greater or lesser degrees. Ranking at the very top are three people: Glinda, Oz, and Jinnicky. They are distinguished from from all other wizards and sorceresses by the use of a capital letter in their titles-Sorceress and Wizard. Glinda apparently chose to retain the title of sorceress, with a capital, rather than take a title of "Wizardess" or some such because of The Great Book of Records. This book makes her a specialist in a form of "divination"-and so the Sorceress title is apt. OZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZ OZOZ ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 20:32:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: DIGEST Edition points:first edit. of L&A of S. CLAUS. Red cloth binding, stamped in black, green, beige, and white. (Not a paper label.) Publisher is Bowen-Merrill. Pictorial endpapers in color. State/Issue 1: Section headings are Book First, Book Second, and Book Third. No textual illos. 20 color plates, five of 'em in full color and 15 in black and red only. Second State/Issue--still considered a first edit.--Section headings now are Youth, Manhood, and Old Age. B&w illos added as headpieces, tailpieces, and marginal. Only 12 cps (color plates) now, but 10 are in full color and 2 are in red and black. Second edition: Publisher is Bobbs-Merrill, the successor to Bowen-Merrill.Similar to second issue of 1st. edit. May have blank ep's. ("ep"=endpaper) Third edition: Publisher is M.A. Donohue. Oz collectors should know that if one of "our" books is published by Donohue, it's automatically a reprint and never a first edition. Fourth editin: Publisher is, again, Bobbs-Merrill. Dull green cloth binding with a paste-on label. The cp's are in orange and black. This is a cut-down version of the points, but it should be enough for you to identify what the dealer has. If we've discovered new points or corrections to these, I'm not aware of them. Yes, a BIB BAUM would be helpful, but I'm in no hurry to see it published. IWOC plans to recycle the old info via the BUGLE and see if folks can update it before they publish BIBLIOGRAPHIA BAUMIANA. We'd like it to be as accurate as possible. Pete may want to comment on this. I'm not sure how far along the project is. He'll know. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 21:22:35 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: Hello Hi, Dave & Everybody! Can anybody offer Harris some good directions on this? Thanks, Jim ---------- From: HKorncob@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 1996 2:40 PM To: info@ozclub.org Subject: Hello Hi. I'm very interested in the Wizard of Oz. I am going to do a project about the Wizard of Oz for music class (mostly on the songs) I was wondering if you could e-mail me any information about the songwriters, or tell me of any people or books that I might be able to find Information in. If there is anything you could send me it would be greatly appreciated. My address is: Harris Kornstein 9 Derry Lane Glenmont, NY 12077 My only problem is that I would need the information in about 2 weeks (if possible). Please e-mail me telling if there is something on it's way (HKorncob@Aol.com) Thank You!! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:49:42, -0500 From: Donald_Davis@prodigy.com (MR DONALD T DAVIS) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-96 For who may be interested The Wizard of Oz Festival is this weekend the 20th till the 22nd. ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 21, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:56:29 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-20-96 First Digest in nearly a month that I had to download instead of just saving directly into Flashmail! (Last one that long was 8/28.) Rebecca: I expect that your questioner means the distance from where Dorothy's house landed to the Emerald City, rather from the nearest border of the Munchkin Country, right? For starters, there are no generally-accepted dimensions to Oz; different researchers have come up with different sizes for the country, depending on which information from which books they give the most credence to. The best numerical data we have, though, is in WISHING HORSE, where the area of Skampavia is defined accurately and one of the characters states that Oz is fifty times as big as Skampavia. If you take that as the measure of the country's size, and the map on the endpapers of TIK-TOK as representing its shape, then the overall size of the country is about 90 miles N-S by 120 miles E-W. This is reasonably consistent with most of the travel times cited in the books, though not with all. If you do accept that, though, Dorothy's house landed about 50 miles from the EC as the crow flies, or probably around 60 along the Yellow Brick Road. On the other hand, if you take the dimensions in Dave's FAQ (70 by 90), then presumably it's only 35-40 miles. And others have postulated a much larger Oz, around the size of Colorado, but that makes it very difficult to see how she could have walked it in around three days. If it's the distance from the nearest border of the Munchkin Country to the EC that's in question, then it's probably about 7-8 miles. We know that the nearest border of the Gillikin Country is about 7-8 miles from the EC from information in LAND, and the map shows the Munchkin border about the same distance. Steve: True that Tandy is one of the few characters in Oz who shows growth during the course of a book. But I didn't find him all that likeable even at the end, though he was certainly improved over his original state. And I'd add the Frogman in LOST PRINCESS and the Hungry Tiger in his book, at least, as characters who show character growth over a book. And Ozma shows considerable character growth over the course of the Baum books, though not noticeably within any single book. Dick: The order form that you get that lets you order books and other items from the IWOC has as its first line membership in the club, and it lists the amount of extra money you send to become a Contributing or Sustaining member. ISTR that it's about $35 for Contributing and $60 for Sustaining, but I could be wrong about that; it's been quite a while since I renewed. I'm sure one or more of the Board members on the Digest will tell you. Danny: Actually, the only Baum book that takes as much as half the book to introduce the title character is SCARECROW. Ozma, Dorothy and the Wizard, the Patchwork Girl, Tik-Tok, Rinkitink, the Tin Woodman, and Glinda all appear well within the first quarter of their books. And while the Wizard and the Lost Princess don't appear in person until toward the end of "their" books, their presence is felt pretty much from the beginning. Mike: No, BoW didn't tell me they were going to print an excerpt from GLASS CAT in the ECM. They have the right to, under the contract between us, and in any case I would hardly object; it's great publicity. Someday maybe I'll even see a copy of that ECM myself (if my membership in the RCOO didn't lapse because the dues notice went to the wrong address and didn't get forwarded). Glad you found it well-written - why don't you go to your local Borders and buy a copy? Then you can read the whole thing! As far as I'm concerned, the Ozzy Digest _is_ an on-line daily apa. Gregory Maguire is the author of WICKED. Don: So the Chesterton festival is this weekend? I have plans for today and tomorrow, but nothing important on for Sunday; I may make the run over there. I'll have to recheck the distance and see how long it would take me. (I know my wife wouldn't go then; she devotes her Sunday afternoons to watching the NFL this time of year. But if it looks like no more than a couple of hours' drive I might go by myself.) If I do go, I'll try to write something up for the GAZETTE, Jane. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 12:52:11 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: OZ To Tyler, "Curious Dick," Robin, "Shaggy Man," all who tried to find GILI's HOMEPAGE and failed because of my bad typing: (:=( I'm sorry. I'm guilty! I will tear my tear and beat my breast. I will remember this on Monday during Yom Kippur services. Forgive me. The correct URL *is* http:/www.scso.com/~gili/ I declare it. I just looked at it and saw Gili's smiling face. It even has a "mail me" icon. "Curious Dick": On the membership renewal forms there is the opportunity to get a sustaining or contributing membership in IWOC. When these were first instituted special premiums were given to those who got these memberships. These were not announced in advance. The first year, the premium for a $50 sustaining membership was a xerographic reprint of all the pages from the BUGLE of the Bibliographia Oziana, Bibiographia Baumiana, and Bibliographia Pseudonymnia that had already appeared. The next year it was a reprint of the actual pages of the first five years of the BAUM BUGLE. Another year it was a fine portrait of LFB. However, in recent years these premiums have not been continued. I believe only enough of them were made to supply the sustaining members. Perhaps the practice could be reinstated--it might attract sustaining members. Rebecca: The Munchkin Country borders on the territory of the Emerald City, at least in the books after the Wizard. A set of beautiful OZ maps is available from IWOC for $3. (see http:/www.ozclub.org/~iwoc/clubpubs.html) P.S. I checked THIS URL carefully! Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 14:16:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-20-96 Steve- Tandy and Skamperoo are not really the only characters in the Oz books who experience growth. The Hungry Tiger does, as was pointed out in the Digest of the twentieth, as does Realbad. There may be others, as well. I did not read the Oz books in order, either. I read whichever ones I could find, and when I found more than one at a time, I read the ones that I found the most interesting first. I also am guilty of not reading each book in order, and of sometimes reading the endings before I reached them. __Nathan Mulac DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 20:40:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Eric, Eric. You are misquoting me. I never called you a "blowhard." I also told you in e-mail how much I/we valued your knowledge and contributions. I am still wondering if you have found a teaching job? Come on back and be sociable. The rainy season must have started in Seattle... :) FWIW - Did Baum really invert the normal ranking? Sorceress vs Witch? Most sorceresses I have know could take care of any witch with one spell tied behind her. I know this is an Oz Digest, but I am itching to share a new author who has burst on the fantasy scene like a comet. His name is Jerry Jay Carroll and he has only one book out, "Top Dog," which is just out in paper. If you love "adult" fantasy, don't miss this one. [Xlation, he uses words not suitable for children and some of the images are pretty grisly.] However, he even refers to Oz in the first 50 pages. And, this man can really write. I could hardly put the book down to come and "Digest." I attended his first book signing last night. Twenty years ago he had this vivid dream of a dog that stayed with him. About two years ago he had insomnia so he went down at 2 am and started writing a book about it. He didn't plot it, it just flowed out of him. Carroll has no background in fantasy or sci fi, he is a journalist. As a result, what he has written has a really fresh feel and is riveting. It is hard to describe, being sort of an amalgam of Sword & Sorcery, Madison Avenue, Jung, Lewis Carroll and Thornton Burgess. It makes you believe that even though he hasn't read any he has tapped into the fantasy group mind. More good news. He has written a second book, being sold, and is working on a third. My, I haven't been this enthused about a book since Goodkind's appeared. This just got me in touch with what bothers me about RPT. The "willing suspension of disbelief (WSOD)." IMHO, you have to be able to call on WSOD to read fantasy. Fantasy requires much more WSOD than sci fi because well-written sci fi is an extension of what is that doesn't violate physical laws. Fantasy violates physical laws. However, if a fantasy is such that you can't even apply WSOD, to me it becomes SILLY. And, that is how I feel about RPT so far. Admitedly I have only read up through Hungry Tiger and David tells me the best is yet to come. I hope so. I don't have this problem with most other fantasy authors, including Baum. What do you think? Whoa Danny - Ozma was not "committing an act akin to murder," in Hungry Tiger. She was being kidnapped and had every right to defend herself. Her kind heart not withstanding, she did. Happily, it all worked out in the end. And your reaction to the book is the same as mine - its a bit silly but still fun. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 23:17:07 -0400 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Rebecca: Glad to hear from you! YIKES! This is a toughie. This question perhaps cannot be answered, but I'll ramble on for a while why it can't. Distances in Oz have long been vague. This has never seemed to be a priority with Oz authors (with the possible exception of David Hulan.) IIRC, it took Dorothy about 3 days to travel to the Emerald City, so the question becomes how long can a six-year old girl walk in three days? Sometimes it seems that certain distances are very long and at other times, it seems that they must be shorter. There is a lot of conflicting evidence, but I believe Dave Hardenbrook has calculated a "best guess" for the size of Oz, so maybe he can help you out. Ruth and Magic: If it sounded like I meant that each titles specifies a certain type of magic and level of power, then I was in error. MOPPeT is that there are several ways in which magical power is used (transformation, divination, plant-based, etc.), and that in general, a magic-worker picks a title which best describes his/her specialty. I believe that the terms CAN have more precise meanings besides just "a person who works magic", but they usually do not. In general, the different terms are interchangeable, and I believe that Baum never intended for them to mean different things. For some individuals, such as Glinda, the term does mean something, but for most it does not. Danny: Prepare for a lot of "funny" Thompson names. :-) Robin: I'll try to offer any advice that I can, but I do not have too much time to spare these days. Mike: Gregory Maquire is the guy who wrote _Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West_. He used a lot of material from Baum, but Dave fears that many readers will attribute all the "new" stuff to Maguire, since they will be assuming that Oz is only an MGM movie until now. Anonymous: "Hey, who changed the color of the ruby slippers?" :-) Homer: I admire Pattrick a great deal, but I must disagree with his theory that a title defines a person's power. IMHO, you can have a very powerful magician and a very weka sorcerer. You can also have people who are very strong in one field, yet weak in another. --Tyler ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 22:15:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-20-96 It's fine with me, if the Story Circle goes online, but that would probably make it unavailable to quite a few members. Not everyone has e-mail. Mike: I remember being frustrated as a kid when characters appeared in an Oz book I was reading and it was clear that I *should* know of them, but didn't 'cause I hadn't read their first appearance yet. Samuel Salt appears in _Captain Salt_ in such a way that it's clear he'd appeared in a previous book; I didn't get to read that book, _Pirates_, until I was an adult. I read _Lost Princess_ before I got to _Patchwork Girl_, and wondered where Scraps had come from. The one that really bugged me was _Road_ with all of its non-Oz characters, but I'm not suggesting that you read _Zixi_, _John Dough_, and _L&A of Santa Claus_ before you get to _Road_. Gee, the underlining and punctuation make my post look a bit like Morse Code. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ // _ _ .._ _._. .... ! ( I think .._ = "u.") --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Friday 20-Sep-96 23:12:27 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things GROWTH OF CHARACTER: David H. wrote: >And Ozma shows considerable character growth over the course of the >Baum books, though not noticeably within any single book. Then I have my MOPPeT that Ozma underwent a major character growth BETWEEN _Lost Princess_ and _Tin Woodman_, during which time, in the wake of her brutal abduction, she decided that she had better learn to take better care of herself (and her people); so she greatly expanded her magical knowledge, setting the stage for her breaking of the Yookoohoo enchantments in _Tin Woodman_. DISTANCES IN OZ: Tyler wrote: >Sometimes it seems that certain distances are very long and at other times, >it seems that they must be shorter. There is a lot of conflicting evidence, >but I believe Dave Hardenbrook has calculated a "best guess" for the size >of Oz, so maybe he can help you out. See section 4.9 of the Ozzy Digest FAQ. There I give the overall dimensions for Oz that I have adopted for my writings. MAGICAL TITLES: I too once accepted the idea that title = magnitude, but not anymore. See section 4.7 of the Ozzy Digest FAQ to see my "Reichter Scale" of magic (based on individual people, not titles). This is my day for referring people to the FAQ, isn't it? :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 22, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 14:08:49 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 9-21 *please post* Re: the distances in Oz... I once tried to estimate the dimensions in Oz by measuring the number of days and nights characters spent on the road between places. In WIZARD, it actually takes Dorothy 6 days to reach the Emerald City from the spot where her house fell: Day 1: House falls on WWE; Dorothy spends night with Boq Day 2: Dorothy meets Scarecrow; they enter the forest; night in Tin Woodman's cottage Day 3: They rescue the Tin Woodman; they meet the Cowardly Lion; night in forest Day 4: They cross the ditch; they meet the Kalidahs; the Tin Woodman makes a raft; night on banks of river Day 5: They cross the river & the Scarecrow is marooned; field of poppies & rescue by field mice; night on farm Day 6: They enter the Emerald City I don't remember how near Boq's cottage was to where Dorothy's house fell, but (based on David H's estimate of 50-60 miles for the distance between Dorothy's house and the EC) it breaks down to 8-10 miles per day or 10-12 miles per day. Using the dimensions in Dave Hardenbrook's FAQ, of course, Dorothy covers even less territory: between about 6 and 8 miles per day. The only other helpful reference I can call to mind is the fact that the Scarecrow covers the same distance in ROYAL BOOK in about 24 hours straight walking, which would mean he travelled between 1 and 3 miles per hour. For myself, I'd always thought that (a) Dorothy's house fell further away from the EC than it did from the desert border or (b) that Oz was rather a larger place. I also believe that an 1890s-era farm girl (even a six-year-old one), used to hard work and in a hurry to get where she's going, could make 20 miles per day on a good road (which, admittedly, the Yellow Brick Road wasn't, along some of its length). I would pump up the distance Dorothy walked to about 80-100 miles. This would mean that the Scarecrow in ROYAL BOOK only had to increase his walking pace to 4 miles per hour max--which is a normal walking speed. A disclaimer: one shouldn't put too much emphasis on walking speeds, which are notoriously inconsistent. Also, the Royal Historians may have dialated time for purposes of maintaining story line. Best to all... KRS ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 05:32:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-21-96 > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Eric, Eric. You are misquoting me. I never called you a "blowhard." So you're not denying that you called me a pompous know-it-all. > I also > told you in e-mail how much I/we valued your knowledge and contributions. I am > still wondering if you have found a teaching job? Come on back and be sociable. > The rainy season must have started in Seattle... :) I find it ironic that the one person on this Digest who has said anything about me and my contributions (or lack thereof) recently is the one person I don't want to talk to. So let me tell everyone what's going on. A while ago, Richard here made a petty, cutting remark to me in the Digest in response to something I said, I don't even remember what now. I wrote to Richard a private e-mail that while I knew he meant it as a joke, I didn't think it was funny, and it really hurt my feelings. A couple of days later, I got a reply back, and the little I was able to read before I deleted the letter in anger had nothing to do with the issue at hand, but instead railed against me for being pompous (that I DO remember for sure). The problem is, Richard is right. I have tried to throw my weight around a little bit here in the past, and I've often been out of line in my comments -- or at the very least, how I phrased them. There was a point where whenever I opened my mouth, someone would get angry at me, and for good reason. It is NOT my intent to make every Oz fan on the Internet mad at me, and so I have chosen to just lay low and lurk now. This Digest really doesn't need me to post any more to the extent that I used to. Most of the simple questions get answered right away by several other people here, so I've chosen to just answer those questions that are REALLY obscure (like the Kingdom of Dreams one), and that I suspect others may not have an answer to. As I stated after I returned from my original self-imposed exile, I'm going to try to limit my comments to factual statements about Oz, as every time I post an opinion someone seems to want to try and change it, and there is enough non-Oz talk on here that I choose not to add to the clutter. This is why I haven't said anything about my job situation, because it's not Oz and only one person has expressed any interest. If others were to ask as well, maybe I'll say something . I may basically be silent now, but please understand that I am still an enthusiastic supporter of the Ozzy Digest, and I am continuing to subscribe and enjoy reading it every day. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 10:14:52 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-21-96 Tyler: >Distances in Oz have long been vague. This has never seemed to be a >priority with Oz authors (with the possible exception of David Hulan.) With the definite exception of David Hulan; I can't speak for others. (It was clearly not a priority with the FF authors, or there wouldn't be so many inconsistencies. E.g., it took Dorothy's party in ROAD only an afternoon to walk from the Truth Pond to the Tin Woodman's Castle, but it took the Frogman and Cayke more than a day to walk from the Truth Pond to Bear Center, which is much closer, even though they're adults and Dorothy's party included Button-Bright, who was probably no more than four at the time. There are comparable inconsistencies in Thompson. Neill does seem to have a fairly consistent, and quite small, Oz in mind.) Robin: Don't forget DOT AND TOT as another non-Oz book with characters in ROAD. (And reading it would me more of a chore; at least ZIXI, JOHN DOUGH, and L.&A. OF SANTA CLAUS are very good-to-fair books [in the order listed, imho], whereas DOT AND TOT is the worst book I've read published under Baum's own name. Dave: I agree that the most dramatic growth in Ozma's character took place between PATCHWORK GIRL and TIN WOODMAN; her role is so small in the intermediate books that it's hard to definitely pin down whether it was the result of her abduction in LOST PRINCESS or just general maturing with age and experience. She had apparently developed some internal magical powers by LOST PRINCESS, since they caused her to wake up when Ugu was stealing the Magic Picture; prior to that she doesn't seem to have had any internal magic at all. But her power at that time must have been fairly limited if Ugu could overcome her as easily as he did. Eric: A specific question for you: Do those of you in the Northwest have a collective noun for your group? I wrestled with this one in GLASS CAT and ended up by copping out and rewriting whenever I wanted to refer to the people of Oogaboo so I didn't need to pick one. Oogabooites? Oogabooans? Oogabooese? Oogabooishmen? (I assume Oogaboors or Oogabooboos wouldn't be acceptable...) Just curious. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 10:23:36 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 9-21-96 David & Steve T.: Thanks for the comment on the Club's "Sustaining" & "Contributing" memberships. I did find them indicated on the Club's order form in small print. I think it would be good idea to promote them, as the Club could use any added revenue to persue it's goals. How about it Peter Hanff? And does anyone know anything about the Centennial Committee selling Ozzy stuff as a fund raiser? Steve T: Hang not your head in shame, my friend. Alas, none of us are perfect. Your correct posting of Gili's home page led me swiftly to it, and my color monitor was graced by her shining, smiling countenance! Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:12:09 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-19-96 For some reason, ths message which Imeant to send two days ago never got posted... Well, here it is now! Hi! I'm back! A. about my homepage: the URL is right down there by my signature. There were lots of problems with the server connecting Europe and America last week, so that why it may have been difficult connecting. Also, you could try inserting "bit." before the "scso.", I suspect that could also help. Truth is, my homepage is managed by a friend, and I myself haven't yet had a chance to check it out in its current format... it kinda half done. Less than half done, actually. But there are some nice pictures of my cats... (forget the bit about .bit. You have the URL now! 9.21) I'VE MISSED YOU!! First I was too busy to write, then Harvard messed up my new account and the server connecting me to my Israeli account was down... WAAAH! But now I'm back, hopefully will have slightly more time to pos though I'm already keeling over with activities and stuff... A belated "Shanah Tova" to all Jewish digesters. My new e-mail is: abhillel@fas.harvard.edu "abhillel" is a rather nonsensical construction, but at least my e-mails are no longer automatically being forwarded to the Harvard "hillel" (Jewish student's organisation)! One of the first things I did upon arrival was enter a children's bookstore (a chain, but the name has slipped my mind at the moment...) (Wordsworth 21.9) Where I discovered a beautiful, interesting new edition of "The Wizard of Oz". The illustration are very delicate, slightly surreal. I forgot the illustrators name, but in an afterword tot he book she writes that she was dismayed at first at thby the idea of having to draw illustrations for a large part of the bo k solely in shades of green. She finally hit upon the idea of enclosing a pair of green glasses in a pocket at the back of the book, which the reader is supposed to look at the emerald city scenes through! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 12:12:05 -0400 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest David: Yes, the size of the digests are increasing again. David and Rebecca: I was the one who first invoked Colorado as an equivalent size for Oz, although it probably is a little large. I'll go with David's dimensions, since the make the most sense. Growing in Oz: It is possible that Queen Ann showed some growth in _Tik-Tok_, or at least got a little wiser in the end. However, I tend to agree with whoever it was that said, for the most part, people tend to stay the same. additional plug: The maps that Steve mentioned are indeed beautiful. You get two: One map of Oz, and one of Oz and surrounding countries. They are excellent and well worth the $3.00 price. If you assume a nice round 1 inch = 10 miles for the Oz map, that gives us 130 by 95 miles, pretty close to David's estimates. Order: I read the FF in order up until _Wishing Horse_. The last 11 I read in the order I received them. However, I read _Road_ before Baum's other books. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:24:30 -0400 From: Homer Has anyone else had any trouble with merchandise ordered from the IWOC? Around the beginning of May, I ordered papaerback copies of Royal Book and Kabumpo, The Cheerful Citizens, and The Oz Sketchbook. Then around the end of May I ordered paperbacks of Cowardly Lion and Grampa. I received The Cheerful Citizens, but that's all. I got the sales receipt/invoice for CL and G. Therefore I know they've gotten both of my orders, and I put the right amount of money in. I've written two letters to Fred Meyer about them, because I got a thing in the mail saying to write to him if there's trouble with an order. But the fact remains that there's $29 worth of stuff I should have coming. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 16:43:58 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: For Ozzy Digest At 04:31 AM 9/21/96 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 20:40:34 -0400 (EDT) >From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Today's Growls > >This just got me in touch with what bothers me about RPT. The "willing >suspension of disbelief (WSOD)." ... >if a fantasy is such that you can't even apply >WSOD, to me it becomes SILLY. And, that is how I feel about RPT so far. >Admitedly I have only read up through Hungry Tiger and David tells me the best >is yet to come. I hope so. I don't have this problem with most other fantasy >authors, including Baum. What do you think? Richard, I'll have to keep an eye out for Carroll, it sounds like a good read. I agree with you that the RPT titles leave something to be desired, but I have kept silent (up to now), since I know I'm in the minority here. I personally found RPT's earliest book (Royal Book) to be the best so far. I also enjoyed Kabumpo. I felt that Cowardly Lion was basically "ok", but had a couple of notable flaws. The first is that the book is a very basic re-hash of the same quest theme as Kabumpo. Secondly, one of the main characters, the clown Notta(?), exhibited some very disturbing psychological character flaws, which didn't seem to be remedied by conclusion of the story. These flaws were intentional, even commented on by the thoughts expressed by the character of the small boy. I'm not sure what kind of hero or role model this clown character would represent to a child, but I found it to be an unnecessary distraction to the story. Grampa has the honor of being the first Oz book which I could not finish, even after two separate attempts. As well as being yet another re-hash of Kabumpo, it is so darn dreary, that I couldn't bring myself to keep turning the pages. Just from these four books, I can see that RPT has a problem with her conception of Oz. Baum's Oz was an obvious socialistic utopia. His stories were about a land that was basically good, where one or two evil and cruel people (or groups of people) unfortunately existed. As Baum's stories progressed, these wicked people either changed their ways, were driven from Oz, or rendered harmless, and the utopia continued. In RPT's stories, the little kingdoms of Oz are fundamentally flawed, being self-centered, evil, and cruel. RPT's stories seem to be about the one or two good citizens' (usually a prince's) adventures, moving from one dismal situation to the next. I found reading Baum to be uplifting, but reading RPT's Grampa is like trudging through a swamp. There is also something sadly wrong with RPT's conception of Ozma, but Ozma hasn't been in enough of RPT's chapters for me to put my finger on it. I guess the good news here is that RPT's later books get better. Oddly enough, I found her first two books to be the most enjoyable. Mike Denio ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 20:16:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-21-96 Bear: At the beginning of _Land_, Baum does seem to imply that a witch is more powerful than a sorceress or a wizardess, but this ranking is not really consistent throughout his books. I find Thompson's books to be fairly realistic. It is true that they are silly, but I, personally, like a little bit of silliness. Also, there does not seem to be anything in her books that cannot be explained somehow. Besides, if you really want silliness, read Neill's Oz books. -N. M. D. ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 22-Sep-96 13:34:03 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Welcome back, Gili! :) :) :) RPT AND MORE ABOUT GROWTH OF CHARACTER: Mike Denio wrote: >I agree with you that the RPT titles leave something to be desired, but I >have kept silent (up to now), since I know I'm in the minority here. I >personally found RPT's earliest book (Royal Book) to be the best so far. I >also enjoyed Kabumpo. My problem with Thompson overall ( and others can say if they think I'm barmey :) ), is that her stories don't have the same "for all ages" appeal that the Baum's books do. Thompson seem a lot of the time writing exclusively for children -- her narrative seems to "talk down" to children, and even her intros. mostly begin: "To the boys and girls" (Baum used more inclusive phrases like "To my readers" which acknowledged Oz's adult audience). Of course, I also have my own personal gripes about RPT, not the least of which was her "killing off" the Good Witch of the North, making me work VERY HARD to bring her back (although borrowing Melody's "switcheroo" spell made Locasta's comeback work well)... RPT's best for me is the last few: _Silver Princess_, _Wishing Horse_, _Handy Mandy_, etc. >Grampa has the honor of being the first Oz book which I could not finish, >even after two separate attempts. For me, the one Oz book with this dubious honor is _Ojo_...I just couldn't get into it. >There is also something sadly wrong with >RPT's conception of Ozma, but Ozma hasn't been in enough of RPT's chapters >for me to put my finger on it. I think I know what's wrong...After Ozma's growth in character throughout the Baum books as we've discussed the last few days, Thompson -- seeing a mature, strong-minded Ozma that conflicted with *HER* (RPT's) conception of "childike innocence" -- panicked and turned Ozma back into a helpless little girl with the I.Q. of Ted Baxter. End the "One brief shining moment" of Ozzy problems solved by Ozma's wisdom; Begin a long, dreary age of quick-fixes involving whispered commands to the Magic Belt. Only now is Ozma finishing up her "12-Step Recovery Plan for Fairies Formerly Constrained by Oz Historians", and in my "Fairy Princess of Oz" she will use her wits to bail everyone else out (the Magic Belt is on the fritz)! (All the above is a bunch of MOPPeT's and IMHO's of course...) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 24, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:03:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-96 David: Being a Munchkin, I cannot speak for the people of the northwest, but Baum specifically used the name "Oogabooites" for the people of Oogaboo. Mike: It seems strange to me that you found _Grampa_ to be "dreary." Personally, I thought it was quite humorous and enjoyable. Dave: I do agree that Thompson does spend some time "talking down," as you put it. However, I still enjoy her books. Ozma's consistent use of the Magic Belt does get annoying, but since she has it, I suppose she should use it. -Nathan M. DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 18:54:38 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-96 >The only other helpful reference I can call to mind is the fact that the >Scarecrow covers the same distance in ROYAL BOOK in about 24 hours straight >walking, which would mean he travelled between 1 and 3 miles per hour. > [snip]This would mean that the Scarecrow in ROYAL BOOK only had to >increase his walking pace to 4 miles per hour max--which is a normal walking >speed. Obviously, the Scarcrow would not need to stop to rest, sleep, eat, etc. but he is not immune to gravity. Continuous walking would tend to cause his straw to settle and pack down into his legs, making him less efficient. There are cases where he is described as being repacked with fresh straw or re-arranging his straw. In a 24 hour period of continuous walking this potentially time- consuming operation (especially if he were alone) might be expected to be necessary at least once. If it did not occur, then his walking speed might tend to fall (with the straw). Ditto the Patchwork Girl and her cotton. Such necessary activity might be expected to be glossed over in the same way that all "rest stops" for meat people are ignored as non-essential to the story. But they would have to be factored in to calculations of walking speed. The larger the group of people, the bigger the factor of "rest stops" would become. Any large group that wanted to stay together might find itself stopping at frequent invervals, in addition to traveling at the speed of the slowest member of the group. Only when traveling in the carriage pulled by the sawhorse--who, one would assume, can run at the speed of some early automobiles--would a need to stop not be a factor in rate of travel, for OZ distances. Regards, Ken H. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:45:34 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 9-21-96 Gili: Welcome back!! As I mentioned in yesterday's Digest, I found your web page (thanks to Steve T.) and enjoyed what you've done thus far. Good to have you back on the Digest. Dave and Mike D: We should all bear in mind that RPT's books, like LFB's, were written, primarily, for children. Her Oz stories may not have the "for all ages" appeal that Dave mentioned, but some would say the same regarding some of Baum's. Also, in his books, Baum did, mostly, address his public as "To My Readers", but the content of his letters was clearly meant for his younger ones. Homer: Yeah, many of us have had to bear with the Club's problems with filling orders. (I was not aware that questions about them were to be directed to Fred Meyer. I believe Fred is still convalescing (?) from surgery.) Hang in there, the stuff will get to you in time. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 02:17:00 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-20-96 Tyler: One main distinction between "witch" and "sorceress" is the connotation of each--"witch" suggests a more awful, bad-tempered female magic worker than "sorceress." On the size of Oz: I remember one RPT book stating that Oz was four hundred miles across. This makes room for plenty of sub-kingdoms. And Dorothy need not have walked all the way to Emerald City--she and Toto may have ridden the Cowardly Lion at times. A 150-mile journey would jibe with one Munchkin's statement that the journey to Emerald City was "Long and hard." Also, has anyone ever seen "Mom and Dad Save the World?" Don't be put off by the title--this movie is like a cross between the Wizard of Oz and the Muppets, with some Mel Brooks thrown in. The planet Spengo reminds one very much of an Ozian subkingdom. The costumes, hairstyles, sets, props--just about EVERYTHING has an Ozzy look to it. Yes, the movie is corny, but (IMHO) you laugh at the MOVIE, not the director. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:20:07 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-96 Mike Denio: I agree with you that RPT's Ozma is not like Baum's Ozma. RPT's Ozma behaves more like a traditional stereotypical female (emotional, easily panicked, etc. etc.) than Baum's more digified, sedate Ozma. One reason I like "Wishing Horse" is because RPT had Ozma more in character with Baum's vision than in her other books. Does this hit the nail on the head for you? Or have you observed other differences as well? Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:30:45 -0400 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Ken S: That was a very insightful look at distances in Oz. As for walking speeds being inconsistent, they would probably average out over a day or two, and of course the Scarecrow would never tire, so he could maintain the same pace continuously. 4 miles per hour is a good brisk walking speed. The idea that historians telescoped long journeys into short ones is one that has precendent. For example, in movies our hero is in New York and five seconds later (and with a glimpse at an airplane), he's in L.A. Gili: Welcome back! Your prescence here delights us all, as does your visage from th long-sought after web page. (I haven't taken the time to see your cats, though). WOW! Actual green spectacles! Pretty cool idea. Mike Denio: Glad to hear from you! IMHO, some of the later RPT's are the best, such as _Pirates_, _Speedy_, _Wishing Horse_, _Captain Salt_, _Silver Princess_, etc. There is quite a diversity of opinion regarding _Captain Salt_, however, mainly since it is the only one of the FF to take place entirely outside of Oz, although _Silver Princess_ comes close. However, you have to wade through a few more Prince-and-the-evil-cities stories to get to them. You may be in the minority with your admiration of _Royal Book_, but you are not in your admiration of _Kabumpo_. Besides, we all have our own list of favorite Oz books and one is just as good as the other. Dave summed up the weaknesses of Ozma and RPT, and I agree with just about all of it, except that I enjoyed _Ojo_ and _Grampa_. RPT has often been praised for her "richness" of imagination concerning the creation of so many strange and wonderful countries. However, I have always throught that they were different only on the surface. Underneath, most of them were all too similar, being determined to enslave everyone and turn them into creatures just like themselves. I prefer RPT to Baum overall, though. Nathan: I assume you are referring to the very beginning, when Baum was trying to pin down exactly what kind of magic worker Mombi was and how powerful she was. It doesn't look as if Baum took this ranking too seriously, though. Dave: Promise me you won't write _Ted Baxter in Oz_ :-) Someone in the Club once said that RPT had reduced Ozma to "a last-minute judge, prize dispenser and party-hostess". I do not fear, however, for I know that Ozma will rise again in "Fairy Princess in Oz". Ozma: Hi. I'm Ozma, and I've been constrained by authors who fear strong women. Everybody: Hi, Ozma! :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:38:27 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-96 spotted at a book fair in Cleveland: Wizard of Oz pop-up book with the emerald glasses $85. Reprint of Handy Mandy $650 But also, Babes in Birdland 1st (fair condition) $100. I have the address for this last one if anyone is interested. Didn't bother picking up business cards for the first two. (can you guess why?) ----- MEDIA PLAY sells the new MGM Oz cassette and gives you a "magic wand" (tacky toy for kids that has nothing ozzy about it) free. ----- Does anyone know what The Navy Alphabet is worth? I've spotted a copy in fair condition (some penciling, very weakly bound and some torn pages) _____ Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:46:25 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission My wife and I saw "The Wizard of Oz on Ice" Saturday and we do recommend it. As one should always attempt to take I child to such events, we took elder son Kenneth (age 27), who had returned to the area after three months in California. He liked it too, especially the part involving the Winkies. I suspect that his sojourn in the west has temporarily tainted his thinking. The Winkies were good, of course, but the Munchkins were best! ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:17:40 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-96 I went to the Oz Fest in Chesterton yesterday, for what it's worth. It was a nice enough little arts-and-crafts street fair, but there was very little Ozzy in it, and what there was was strictly from the movie. (I'm sure that this is good from a commercial standpoint, but it means that it's of little interest to me, and I won't go back.) There were some people dressed as characters from the movie (and a lot of little girls dressed as the Judy Garland version of Dorothy), and a few of the stands were selling stills and posters from the movie; a couple even had T-shirts and sweatshirts with characters or scenes from the movie on them. The only things I saw that had anything to do with Oz and weren't movie-related were a copy of SILLY OZBULS, a couple of copies of WIZARD that may have been based on Baum's original text (I didn't check; they were not the Denslow-illustrated version), and one place had a few Denslow illustrations mounted on wood backings. That was about it, and I covered the place pretty thoroughly. There was a big crowd, at least, and it was a beautiful day. I don't know if it did much to increase awareness of Oz, though. Ken S.: All we know about the distance from where Dorothy's house fell to Boq's house is that it was far enough that Dorothy was tired when she got there. Looking at the map in TIK-TOK, though, it looks as if Dorothy may have had to go several miles to the south before she hit the main road of yellow bricks (though the book says that there was _a_ road of yellow bricks in sight from her house).. A distance of 10-12 miles a day isn't hard walking for a sturdy farm girl on a reasonable path, but one needs to remember that there were quite a lot of interruptions to Dorothy's journey, and for most of the way the path was pretty rough (enough that the Scarecrow frequently tripped). I don't think that a distance of 60 miles or so is unreasonably short. (The map does show the point where the house fell to be quite near the desert. And I think that we have to consider the map in TIK-TOK to be accurate as far as it goes.) As for the Scarecrow's trek in ROYAL BOOK, it's not altogether clear whether it was about 24 or about 48 hours that he walked; it says he arrived at the beanstalk "the second evening", but whether that means the evening he started was the first or whether that was the zeroth evening and there was another one in between isn't clear. Thompson did say that friendly people kept trying to get him to stop, but he was anxious to get on and didn't. However, this may just mean that he didn't stop for any length of time; he's a courteous fellow, so he may have stopped to pass the time of day for 15-20 minutes on a frequent basis, which would slow him down a lot. And then, in quite a lot of cases I think we have to assume that there were overnight stops that the authors just didn't see fit to mention. For instance, it's implied in OZMA that they went all the way from the desert to the Emerald City in one day. And in ROAD from the Truth Pond to the Tin Woodman's castle in an afternoon. Neither is plausible based on travel times in other books. Eric: I'm interested in hearing about your job situation, if you'll tell. Gili: Welcome back! Tyler: I knew you were the first I'd seen compare Oz to Colorado in size, but I didn't know if it was something you'd worked out or if you were presenting something that was the consensus of a group. Homer: I haven't ordered anything from the IWOC lately, but I'm sure that the problems you've had are largely attributable to the dislocation caused by Fred Meyer's illness and surgery. I believe things are settling down now, but it's taken a while; he did an enormous amount of work for the club that had to be divided up among quite a few other people when he could no longer do it. Steve or Robin can probably tell you who you should contact instead of Fred, who's still in no position to help you. (Or for that matter, Peter Hanff or Jim Vander Noot or Jane Albright or probably several other people who turn up on the Digest from time to time could also tell you, but Steve and Robin are the two Board members who post here most often.) Mike D.: If you've only read the first four Thompson books then you've missed all of her best ones and read two of her three worst, IMHO. (Although Eloise Jarvis McGraw called GRAMPA her favorite of all the Oz books. No accounting for tastes...) Oz in the Thompson books seems different from Oz in Baum - it's much more thickly settled, for one thing - but once she hits her stride, which I'd say happens around YELLOW KNIGHT, her plots are much stronger than most of Baum's, although her prose isn't as good. Dave: I'm surprised you had a problem getting into OJO. I find it one of the fastest-paced and most "adult" of Thompson's books, as well as definitely the scariest. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:19:20 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuf I'd like to echo Mike about RPT, specifically in the audience issue... Admittedly, I have only read a few Thompson books at all, and although I *do* like them overall, I have a few problems with her writing. (Don't worry, I have a few with Baum as well ) Basically, I agree with the audience issue, whereas I feel Baum had a double audience, both children and adults, and spoke very matter-of-factly that even the whimsical parts of his fantasies seemed real. Thompson, IMHO, seems to only talk to children, with those punny names and funny characters, making real situations "Down town, Indus Tree, Quilties," etc. into fantasy. I feel like I'm reading a Xanth novel (another dimension) when I read Thompson, but Baum pulls off his fantasy like you really CAN find it in Arizona. BTW, I *do* like Xanth, though, as well. I wonder, are most of those who feel this way, people (like me) who are introduced to Thompson after a lot of Baum? There are, to me, many more *similarities* between the two that we Digest-ers seem not to focus on, so I can understand someone who grew up with BOTH authors at the same time (or even Thompson more exclusively) that would feel Thompson is the "better" Oz historian. All for now. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:55:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS Eric - Good to hear from you regardless of the qualifications. Too bad you didn't read all of my e-mail to you. You might have felt differently. However, don't you consider it a "no-no" to quote someone's private e-mail? Eric will now write on the board one hundred times .......... :) Good naturedly, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:06:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-96 > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-21-96 > > Eric: > A specific question for you: Do those of you in the Northwest have a > collective noun for your group? I wrestled with this one in GLASS CAT and > ended up by copping out and rewriting whenever I wanted to refer to the > people of Oogaboo so I didn't need to pick one. Oogabooites? Oogabooans? > Oogabooese? Oogabooishmen? (I assume Oogaboors or Oogabooboos wouldn't be > acceptable...) Just curious. And of course we toyed with Oogaboogers and Oogaboobies years ago, but those dropped by the wayside quickly . Baum used "oogabooites" in "Tik-Tok," but we just prefer to call ourselves Oogaboos. It's not totally unprecedented, since the residents of the Munchkin Country are Munchkins, Quadling Country Quadlings, etc. > From: DIXNAM@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest 9-21-96 > > David & Steve T.: Thanks for the comment on the Club's "Sustaining" & > "Contributing" memberships. I did find them indicated on the Club's order > form in small print. I think it would be good idea to promote them, as the > Club could use any added revenue to persue it's goals. How about it Peter > Hanff? FWIW, I was a Contributing (I think) member for a number of years, but lack of any sort of gift and, more importantly, poverty put a stop to that. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:08:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Wizard of Oz. (fwd) Can anyone out there help Deb? (Remember, she's not a subscriber, so if you want her to know, you'll have to e-mail her directly.) --Eric Gjovaag ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 18:28:55 -0400 From: deb To: tiktok@eskimo.com Subject: Wizard of Oz. Hi there. I am hoping you can help me. I am a huge fan of the movie. 27 and still my favorite movie. My children think I am nuts. They never saw it before today, and I am sitting there saying all the words, and singing all the songs. Anyway, I am looking everywhere for a wizard of oz screensaver, and cannot find one. Do you know where I can get one, or download it from? If you can help me I would appreciate it. Thank you for your time. From one Oz fan to another. Debbie Swacus Deb@scsn.net ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:00:38 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: IWOC issues from recent posts The "circle" that Andrea Yussman is responsible for is the research circle, for people who want to circulate articles of a scholarly nature to other Oz fans. The story circle had a few different volunteers offer to take it over, but I am not aware of who wound up assuming responsibility for it. I believe it was Margaret Berg. If you circle participants are not receiving short stories, and have not been given her address to forward yours, please let me know and I'll follow up with Peter Hanff, to whom the offer to volunteer to take it over was, as I understand it, made. Re: cost, Fred felt it was necessary to typeset all incoming stories (some, particularly by younger members, were handwritten) which added considerably and in many opinions unnecessarily to the circle's cost. The Centennial logo of the Oz Club is still entangled in copyright clearance issues, which has prolonged production of centennial products longer than we had hoped. (Case in point, the tradmark search has absorbed the entire budget allocated by the IWOC Board for manufacturer of these projects and independent financing had to be raised to even complete the copyright filing). We would be unwise to distribute products with the logo before our copyright is cleared particularly since licensing to other manufacturers would be a good means of funding for us. The intent of the logo is to help raise money to offset costs of Club centennial activities, most notably a particularly lavish convention and lesson plans for elementary schools. Our IWOC has been not too diligent to publicize any of the committees' work. I'm not sure why. There are or have been special publication, archives, planning and various administrative committees over the years. Please write me directly about the centennial committee with ideas, interests or offers to help. (Frankly, the only reason it prompted visibility at year or so ago was that I was doing the lion's share of the Oz Observer when submissions forwarded from Fred filled barely 3 pages per issue. The centennial committee was something I knew enough about to fill some space. Also, we need to launch our contest for a new manuscript for the centennial year so we had to move from planning to action. I was sending press releases to writers' publications and wanted members to know about the contest first.) The recent survey of IWOC members relative to the location, length and content of the centennial convention prompted an outpouring of offers to help. Most welcome offers I can assure you!! I was not aware the members didn't know about the committee. Last I heard, the Oz Club had received only five manuscripts for our own centennial book contest. I hope you Digest authors will be willing to take a shot a winning! "Homer" -- I'm sorry about the disappointing delays in getting your IWOC order filled. I sent your message about unfilled IWOC orders to the IWOC president, treasurer and an administrator who now is responsible for filling orders as well as an interim volunteer who may have still been handling orders last May. While I don't have a definitive answer for you, I have heard that the bookstore in NY that fills our paperback orders ran out of several titles and didn't tell us he needed more stock until recently. Additionally, Fred Meyer's health has prevented him from being involved in any correspondence on behalf of the Club for more than a year now. Mail addressed to the IWOC at his old address is forwarded. If it is in his own name, however, he is receiving it and is unable to respond. Can you tell me where you saw him as the "write with problems" contact so we can update that information? I also need to know who you are to track your order. Let's get this off the digest as we work through getting your order filled. I'm at Jane Albright ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 25, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:47:21 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission I guess I must rescind our recommendation for "The Wizard of Oz on Ice" as reported in the 9/24 Digest because I read in yesterday's "The Washington Post" that it is only "passable entertainment for the under-10 set" and should be banned from libraries. That last about the libraries is an exaggeration, but not that much. (I am also distressed because I have always thought that my mental age was at least 13.) The reviewer, Nicole Arthur, complains that none of the Munchkins do a triple lutz but shows no other understanding of the general characteristics of a commercial ice show. She even calls it "karaoke on Ice," which shows that she does not understand the nature of karaoke, either. So I say, pay no attention to that reviewer behind the Post. We saw the show and it was a wonderful spectacle, good skating, and great fun. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:48:20 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: OZ Dave: If you had to miss a day of the digest, yesterday was an appropriate one as it was Yom Kippur, when some of us should not be thinking of mundane things (not that Oz is all that mundane.) Scott: It is impossible to say how much a book is "worth." The question is what will it sell for. I would consider $650 for a reprint of HANDY MANDY outrageous. As for THE NAVY ALPHABET, I bought one some years ago for about $400 from a very reasonable dealer (who subscribes to the digest). Now, I am sure it would be much more. It, THE ARMY ALPHABET and THE WOGGLE-BUG BOOK are all very rare because they had only one edition, and were rather flimsy. Perhaps Robin or Herm have had more experience with these titles. Eric: Perhaps your comment on how lack of gifts led you to drop your contributing membership, and the fact that silent special members probably felt the same, might encourage the board to revive the premiums. Eric and Bear: Kiss and make up. We need you both asd friends. On LFB and RPT: When I was growing up in the forties and fifties, my father had a collection that included most of the Baum books, about half of RPT's and the first two Neills, I read them indiscriminately. I remember OZMA being my favorite and KAPUMPO and PURPLE PRINCE being among my favorites. I made no distinction between LFB and RPT at that stage of my life. (I do not think I cared as much for WONDER CITY). They were all written for children, and I was a child. In some ways I still am. So are many of us on the digest. However, I have become more discriminating. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:41:45 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 9-23 *please post* Re: ROYAL BOOK and walking in Oz... Ken Hackeny, Tyler, & David Hulan--Thanks for your comments! They have inspired me to look more closely at some questions I hadn't considered before... Ken--Re: the Scarecrow's straw. Point well taken. I had forgotten the Scarecrow's problems with his straw, and I do now remember Scraps' complaint in PATCHWORK GIRL about needing to be rolled out after walking. It's true that the Scarecrow's straw would have settled and he would need some shaking up and reworking periodically. However, based on my own experience with straw (which is, admittedly, somewhat limited), I remember it being rather stiff--at least, in its fresh state--and about 18 inches long. If the Scarecrow was freshly stuffed, I don't think the straw would be stale(? does straw get stale?) or fragmented enough to impede his progress seriously. In both WIZARD and ROYAL BOOK the Scarecrow falls fairly often, which might have the same effect on both his speed and his straw.... David Hulan--Re: distances and time. Thanks again for your insightful comments! I'll echo your point about the distances on the TIK TOK map--if the map shows that Dorothy's house fell fairly near the Desert, a 60-mile trip to the EC is proportionately too long in a 120-mile Oz--or even a 90-mile Oz. That's part of the reason I argue for a longer trip to the EC. On to the Scarecrow (and ROYAL BOOK, which is one of my favorites--I think it's one of Thompson's tightest plots) ********WARNING: PLOT SPOILERS FOR "ROYAL BOOK" AHEAD********** I did a breakdown of the plot of ROYAL BOOK on a day-to-day basis, which I'll reproduce (in part) here. What I found was that the rendezvous in the Silver Islands works best if we assume a 24-hour trip for the Scarecrow rather than a 48-hour trip: Day 1: Scarecrow departs EC in late evening Day 2: Scarecrow crosses Munchkin River; reaches beanpole late evening ("by the second evening"); slides down beanpole Dorothy & Lion depart EC ("the morning after the party"); reach Scarecrow's tower (Winkie country) by mid-morning; night in front of Pokes Day 3: Scarecrow resumes throne of the Silver Islands Dorothy & Lion meet Sir Hokus; party meets Candy Giant; night in Fix City Day 4: Dorothy's party takes road from Fix City Day 5: Scarecrow defeats King of the Golden Islands ("Two days had passed") Day 6: Dorothy's party meets the deaf shepherd ("on the second day" after leaving Fix City) Day 7: Return of Honorable Offspring ("the second morning after the great victory"); Scarecrow & Happy Toko chained to piller at night Dorothy's party meets Comfortable Camel & Doubtful Dromedary ("for three days they had wandered"); reunited with Scarecrow Day 8: Abdication of Chang Wang Woe If we assume that the Scarecrow's initial trip to the beanpole took 48 hours then we have to add another day into Dorothy's journey, and I don't think that works as well. ***************END SPOILER FOR "ROYAL BOOK"**************** I also assume that when Thompson says the Scarecrow didn't stop, he didn't stop at all. If his mental state was such that he kept on running into styles without seeing them and falling down, I don't think he was in any mood for polite conversation with passers-by. And I'm sure you're right that there are overnight stops that don't appear in the Royal Histories. I don't think there are any in ROYAL BOOK, though. Best, KRS ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:09:48 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Web Page Dave: I found your webpage thanks to Gili's. She had a link to it. However, the URL that I was using was wrong. The correct URL is http:/people.delphi.com/dave47/Oz.html I hope this will help other digesters to find you. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:25:55 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: Digest At 05:03 AM 9/24/96 -0500, you wrote: >You may be in the minority with your admiration of _Royal Book_, but you >are not in your admiration of _Kabumpo_. Besides, we all have our own list >of favorite Oz books and one is just as good as the other. >--Tyler Jones I read _Royal Book_ first, and I may have been a little determined to like it, but I think I would have liked it regardless. It is a little different, and these days, a tad uncomfortable in spots, but overall I have to applaud RPT's attempt to create a story with a different plot than those of Baum, and also giving the Scarecrow character a new dimension. >Mike: >It seems strange to me that you found _Grampa_ to be "dreary." Personally, I >thought it was quite humorous and enjoyable. > -Nathan M. DeHoff *** GRAMPA SPOLIER *** Some of the comments on the digest have helped me solidify some of my thoughts on Grampa. I think what annoyed me most about the book's attempt to disguise cruelty as cleverness. I first stop reading the book when the main characters tried to go up a spiral stair case, but fell down a million miles down instead. On my second attempt, I closed the book when the prince gets the "hand" of the ice princess, and his part of the kingdom turns out to be floating chunk of ice. I simply found all the "cleverness" tiresome (a more accurate description than "dreary"). One other problem with Grampa is that without the bottle of magic, the central characters would have been dead a hundred times over. It seems strange that given such a dangerous place, there is anyone in Oz left alive. A WORD OF PRAISE: I did like the weathercock!!! I thought the "go by the name of" jokes were amusing, though not enough to rescue the plot. One more note on RPT: Not that it should really affect her stories one way or the other, but I still find it strange that RPT has put so much simple nastiness inside the borders of Oz. Baum usually restricted his cruelest kingdoms to the surrounding lands, and most of his citizens were good intentioned. I get the impression from reading Grampa and Cowardly Lion, that I would be more likely to meet a cruel person in RPT's Oz that not. Help me out here. Other than the central "good" characters in both stories, did we meet ANY friendly Oz residents in either Cowardly Lion or Gampa (before the final chapter where Ozma invariably shows up and consigns everyone she dislikes to oblivion)? BTW: I found Neill's books enjoyable (except for the "too insane" Scraps, and the thing about voting with shoes). I also read Magical Mimics, and although it was a very different plot style, I enjoyed it as well. Mike Denio ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:20:18 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-96 Thanks to all on the info re: Maguire. Tyler: > The idea that historians telescoped long journeys into short ones is one > that has precendent. For example, in movies our hero is in New York and > five seconds later (and with a glimpse at an airplane), he's in L.A. > Kind of "retroactive precedence", eh, what? since WIZARD took place earlier than movies. (Gentle ribbing! Please note :-) ) On Oogabooites and Eric: Of course "Mangaboos" and "Oogaboos" resonate nicely. Aaron, any word on what the old Ozzish "abu" (or is it "gabu") means? (assuming this are both in old Ozzish, which may not be the case at all). --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:35:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-96 Dave, Barb Foster, Administrative Coordinator of the Oz Club, has the responsibility for handling orders, memberships, and questions about past orders. She can be reached at The International Wizard of Oz Club Attn: Barb Foster P.O. Box 266 Kalamazoo, Michigan 49004-0266 Peter ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:39:27 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-96 Nathan: Wonder how I missed "Oogabooites" in TIK-TOK? Oh, well. It's not a very attractive word, imho; I think I like Eric's (and the group's) "Oogaboos" better. If I ever write about Oogaboo again... Dick: Personally, I think RPT's better books have _more_ "adult appeal" than most of Baum's. While she does use punnish names that are rather silly at times, she doesn't have her child characters talk in the rather twee way that Baum does, especially for Dorothy. (For whatever reason, Betsy and Trot have much better articulation.) Her auctorial asides, on the other hand, do seem a little more precious than Baum's. Each writer has strengths and weaknesses, but I agree with Danny that there are more similarities than differences between the two. That is, if a previously-unknown Oz book by one of them were to turn up, you'd have no difficulty knowing which one wrote it, but it would still be very recognizably Oz. Differences are more fun to talk about, though. Melody: Do you recall even approximately which RPT book said Oz was 400 miles across? I don't recall any such statement, and I've read through the whole series looking for clues as to the size of Oz aside from travel times. (She does say at one point in HANDY MANDY that the Sapphire City is 70 leagues south of the southern border of Keretaria, but that's clearly an error on her part, since SC is still in the northern part of the Munchkin country and 70 leagues is 210 miles. This would make Oz more the size of Texas, and getting from the EC to the desert on foot a matter of weeks or months, not days. I reconcile it by assuming that Thompson confused two little-used measures of distance and really meant "furlongs" when she wrote "leagues". That would place the SC about 9 miles south of Keretaria, which is about where it looks to be on the map if you use my size of 90 x 120 miles for Oz overall.) And a 60-mile walk, mostly through forests on a bad road, qualifies as "long and hard" as far as I'm concerned. I never even heard of "Mom and Dad Save the World" until now. Is it in theaters or on video or what? WISHING HORSE is my favorite Oz book of all, but Ozma's characterization doesn't have anything to do with it. She spends almost all of the book at the bottom of Lightning Lake, and the rest of the time she does nothing of any consequence. Tyler: Agreed, everyone has a list of favorite Oz books and none is better than another. On the other hand, people who don't like Thompson's first few books need to know that her later ones are very different, and that a lot of people like them much better. For that matter, if Baum had ended his series when he wanted to, with EC, I think the consensus would be that his imagination had faltered, because those last three books are among his worst. (EC has its moments, mostly when Guph is onstage, but it's not among the best, and most people I know of consider the other two his worst.) Then he came back and wrote some books that are at least arguably as good as or better than his first three. Danny: I'm one who grew up with both authors fairly indiscriminately (along with Neill's LUCKY BUCKY). I owned, from about third grade on, WIZARD, LAND, EMERALD CITY, RINKITINK, LOST PRINCESS, TIN WOODMAN, and MAGIC of Baum's and KABUMPO, SPEEDY, WISHING HORSE, SILVER PRINCESS and OZOPLANING of Thompson's. I had the loan of all the others up through OJO at one point or another in my childhood, but obviously had much less opportunity to reread them. (I got MAGICAL MIMICS and SHAGGY MAN when they first appeared, but I was in 5th grade for the first and high school for the second.) So my concept of Oz was shaped pretty equally by both Baum and Thompson, and even though I can see the differences now intellectually, I still feel that it's all Oz. Jane: The last Research Group mailing I got from Andrea Yussman (in July) said that the Story Circle and Research Group were being combined and that people who had either stories or research papers should send them to her and she'd put out a quarterly mailing of whatever she'd gotten. If this is not the case, I'd like to know. I haven't heard anything from anyone else about the Story Circle, and I'd think I would have, since I was an active participant for several years. (And my 1st-class mail is still being forwarded from California, eventually.) I had plans to do a MS for the Centennial contest, but have been seriously delayed in starting on it because of the dislocation of our move. I don't know if I can get something finished by the end of March or not, though I still have pious hopes. And five MSS six months before the deadline doesn't sound too bad; most writers will continue to revise and tweak their MSS as long as there's no reason to rush. There may be many more such out there. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:40:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-96 The Scarecrow must have arrived on the Silver Island on the evening after he left the Emerald City, which would have been when Dorothy and the Cowardly Lion arrived at the gates of Pokes. Right after Dot, the Lion, and Hokus escaped from Pokes, Glinda read about the Scarecrow's arrival on the Silver Island in her Book of Records. David: _Grampa_ was quite different from Thompson's other Oz titles. However, I thought that it was one of her best, mostly because it was just so darned funny (especially the beginning). _Ojo_ was a good book, but I thought that the punishment that the gypsies received was quite severe. Danny: Personally, I enjoyed the frequent puns in Thompson's books. According to a recent newsletter, the Oz Research Group and Story Circle have been combined. However, I am a member of both groups, and I have not received stories or research papers since the arrival of this notice. -Nathan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:11:05 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-96 At 05:03 AM 9/24/96 -0500, you wrote: >I agree with you that RPT's Ozma is not like Baum's Ozma. RPT's Ozma >behaves more like a traditional stereotypical female (emotional, easily >panicked, etc. etc.) than Baum's more digified, sedate Ozma. >Does this hit the nail on the head for you? >Or have you observed other differences as well? > >Melody Grandy > I haven't read enough about Ozma in an RPT book to form an opinion. What little I did read of Ozma portrayed her more like Glinda. I found Baum's Ozma was always the compassionate balance to Glinda's (mild) austerity. My favorite portrayal of Ozma as ruler (as well as the other Oz characters) is in Patchwork Girl. Almost all the characters in Patchwork were multi-dimensional, with their own code of ethics, driven by a "human" understanding. The only problem I had with the book was the altering of the glass cat. I was irked by the Wizard's apparent belief that he has the right to alter anyone who doesn't conform his own personal ideals. Mike ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:23:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-96 David: You're right, of course, about DOT & TOT's being referred to in ROAD. Are we keeping score? Is it a game? If so, I guess you win, since I didn't bother to add it to my list. Green spectacles in Oz: The Random House Pop-Up of THE WIZARD OF OZ used green spectacles in their first issue. If the reader put on the spectacles, he was able to decipher a "hidden message"! The book should NOT be worth $85. *Maybe* as high as $50 if it's pristine. Gili: I liked your homepage, too. Welcome back! GRAMPA: Gee, I liked it. Geozgraphically, it's a mess, but I like Urtha and Grampa. As for Tatters, there's not much there to like or dislike. He's a very undeveoped character. I liked Gorba's garden quite a lot, and loved it when Grampa et al played Scrum on an iceberg. That felt Ozzy. I did not, however, like the Playfellows, but I do understand why--for plot advancement-they are there. I never liked the one-note characterization of Bill; it felt like a poor running gag to me as a kid. Most of all, I liked/like the character of Grampa. He's not a Kabumpo/curmudgeon clone. He's an original. He's what Notta Bit More coulda been but wasn't. (I agree with whoever it was that said that Notta is a poor role model. The guy was obnoxious and refused to learn.) I also like OJO. Very satisfying to a gal who has never quite grown out of her tomboy ways. That bandits' cave is super;I want to go there. Also, I was glad to learn about Ojo's origins. BTW, I've always thought Realbad looks very much like Errol Flynn, although he couldn't have been based on him. THE NAVY ALPHABET is a toughie to get. When found, the spine is usually gone and the book is very shaken. Is it complete? If so, try to get it for less than $100 if it's as rocky as you describe, but it may be worth more. Hard to say without seeing it. Repeat: it's scarce. I was in Wal-Mart yesterday. They were promoting the heck out of the "last chance this century opportunity" to buy the WIZARD video. The videos, I noted with satisfaction, were selling quite well. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:29:38 -0400 From: Homer Thanks for the help with the order I mentioned. Peter Hanff e-mailed me and I sent him my name and stuff. By the way, IIRC, isn't Jane Albright the name of one of the characters on the show "3rd Rock From The Sun"? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:48:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Ken H. - Remember the Scarecrow has a brain. So, when walking long distances, every few miles he walks on his hands for a while to redistribute his assets. Gili - Great to see your keystrokes again. Briefly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:15:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-96 > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-96 > > Eric: > I'm interested in hearing about your job situation, if you'll tell. Well, that's one. Anyone else? > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS > > Eric - Good to hear from you regardless of the qualifications. Too bad you > didn't read all of my e-mail to you. You might have felt differently. However, > don't you consider it a "no-no" to quote someone's private e-mail? Eric will > now write on the board one hundred times .......... :) But I didn't quote it, I paraphrased it. (Yeah, yeah, picking at nits, since when did that stop anyone here?) To be honest, when you sent it, I was at my lowest of low points, and I just wasn't in the mood. If you still have it, and can resend that letter, I'd probably be more receptive to it now. But regardless, we've cluttered the "Digest" up with this stuff too much already. You have my e-mail address, if you want to discuss it any more, let's make it private. Everyone: Once I'm off the 'net tonight, Laura and I are planning to upload a whole bunch of revisions to my web site, including an entire revamp and update of my links page. By the time you read this, it ought to be up and running, so please check it out and let me know what you think. (The FAQ is the only part that WON'T be upgraded, but I'm working on that now as well.) And I now have my own FTP directory established, I'll let y'all know when I have something there and how to access it. --Eric "My, I've been chatty lately for a lurker" Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:41:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Fire and Brimstone ***WARNING: REVIEWS OF OZ BOOKS BELOW*** I recently got three Oz books via ILL, so it's time for the Mad Reviewer to strike again. 1) Acinad Goes to the Emerald City of Oz I actually liked this story. Generic Person in Audience: You've gotta be kidding. You don't like anything. No, I'm not kidding. It was a delightful story with everything one could want in an adventure--good guys, bad guys, conflict, crisis, resolution, something to fight for, and wonderful creatures. I especially liked the flying pigs with their functionally non-fixed propeller tails. The only major problem I had with the book was that I can't figure out is why the Magic Diamond was hidden in the palace in the Emerald City. Three and a half stars. 2) Skeezik and the Mys-Tree of Oz by Marcus Mebes et. al. This book seems to be mainly a device for telling several stories which are embedded within the main story. The main plot is confused, with it never being made clear who set up the puzzle to be solved and why the puzzle was set up in the first place. The embedded stories range from decent ("The Silver Dagger") to silly (the polylimerick about the geisha from Beijing) to absurdly shallow (the myth of Echo and Narcissus). Even more disturbing than the Mebesian Dorothy thinking Greek myths having "a magic all their own" (especially when Echo and Narcissus die not for some noble cause, such as truth or saving the lives of others, but because he falls in love with his own reflection and she falls in love with him, both to the extent that they don't even eat or move ever again), but Mebes also has people come to Oz when they die! Things get even freakier in the sequel... 3) The Magic Tapestry of Oz by Marcus Mebes and Chris Dulabone =2E..in which the antagonist is the Greek goddess of discord, Eris, whose minions (and her own actions, for that matter) are especially ineffective, not because things simply don't go their own way (which would allow us to laugh with the authors), but because they are a bunch of incompetents (causing us to--well, you get the idea). Just what Eris is trying to do, we are not sure, but whatever it is, Toto and a bunch of sidekick characters are forced to stop it, but not before being batted backwards and forewards in time due to 1) idiocy on the part of Llewop the Ungramatical Roly-Rogue, and 2) poor planning on the part of Eris, who fails to make sure the traps she plants in Tartarus are anything but pathetic before she brings Toto and co. when they discover with the help of the Anjoel and Melinda Magic Academy sometime in the far past that she is behind the devestation of a skeezique tree (and yes, why she did that, we don't know, especially as any offense will take place in 1990 CE). Particularly puzzling is the case of Mahira, an Indian princess who, while wearing the Eye of Spurdeaux (menitioned in an embedded story and a metaembedded story in the prequel, and how it got to New Delhi, we have no idea) and two pairs of fake arms, falls into a time tunnel and comes out a hideous mutant freak. While she does team up with Toto, Llewop, and co. and is somehow bound up in Eris's vague plot, she might as well not have six arms and three eyes, or even be in the story, for all she really does is tear up a tapestry woven by the Three Fates--Hey, Llewop could have eaten it.--which somehow stops Eris from doing what she was trying to do in the first place. Add to all this that the the Mebesian view of religion is considerably confused in that he mentions that the deities of about 17,000 countries show up for the required end-party and it is mentioned that skeeziques were created by Adam(!), and it is apparent that the authors should have worked out a better theology first. Skeezik and the Mys-Tree of Oz: One star. The Magic Tapestry of Oz: Zero stars. ***END WARNING*** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 26, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:10:05 +0100 From: Bill Wright Subject: FW: Wizard of Oz Anyone on the Digest that can suggest a source for this person, please respond directly to them. Thanks, Bill in Ozlo >---------- >From: Eli A. Miletich[SMTP:eli@datasync.com] >Sent: 20. september 1996 05:55 >To: piglet@halcyon.com >Subject: Wizard of Oz > >I have a friend of a friend, of a friend, who is looking for the >anniversary edition video tape of the Wizard of Oz. I did not see it >listed in your cataloug, do you have any ideas as to where I might locate >said video? I would be greatly appreciative. Thank You > ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:32:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-25-96 Mike: In _Cowardly Lion_, the Fiddlestick Forest was a pleasant place. Also, the Fire Islanders in _Grampa_ were friendly, although they were not really citizens of Oz. However, it is true that, for the most part, Thompson's Oz characters were rather mean to strangers. This is not necessarily a weakness, however. Thompson introduced a great number of small Oz Kingdoms. If they had all been friendly, it would have made her works kinda boring. _Royal Book_ was a good Thompson story, but the Silver Island parts are a little slow, and may offend some. The Wizard must eventually disapprove of his own decision to change the Glass Cat's brains, since her pink ones are back in _Magic_. (A rather humorous explanation for this is given in a Buckethead book, _Bungle and the Magic Lantern of Oz_) In _Wonder City_, the Wizard performs a similar change on Jenny Jump. _Runaway_ reveals that this change did not work either. David: I agree with many of your comments on Thompson. Her characters' speech patterns do seem to be less childish. Baum uses the word "Oogabooites" after the Shaggy Man uses the Love Magnet on these people. It wins the heart of "every Oogabooite." I do not recall Thompson ever mentioning that Oz was four hundred miles long. In _Speedy_, after the characters leave Big Enough Mountain, the text says, "As the Island billowed smoothly and rhythmically back toward the Emerald City, a great feast was prepared in honor of the distinguished guests-a feast that lasted five hours and eight hundred miles." This probably does not mean, however, that Big Enough Mountain is eight hundred miles from the Emerald City. The Island probably took a roundabout route. Aaron: Out of the three books you reviewed, I have only read one, _The Magic Tapestry of Oz_. I agree with most of the points you make in your review. I also do not really like the idea that Glinda went to school with the wicked witches. Mahira had the potential to be a good character, but she did not do much. Also, I seem to remember the extra-arms idea having been used before. However, there is something I do like about this book, although I cannot really put my finger on it, and I enjoy re-reading it. Actually, Mebes was not the first to have people come to Oz after they die. Several different people have expressed the thought that Baum went to Oz when he died. -Nathan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:12:24 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Mike Denio: You ask if there are any friendly Oz residents apart from the central characters in either "Cowardly Lion" or "Grampa." Those two do seem to be more non-stop peril than was usual for Oz (including RPT-Oz), but the Fairyman in "Cowardly Lion" is a friendly Ozite, and Crunch's intentions are friendly, although his friendship is unfortunate for the befriended. The Wizard Wam, offstage in Oz's past, also seems to have been a friendly sort. (And both books have some friendly characters from lands outside Oz.) David Hulan: The people who are interested in social and political theory seem to find "Emerald City" a favorite, for obvious reasons. Melody Grandy: I think a large part of the difference between Baum's Ozma and RPT's is that Baum rarely uses her as a viewpoint character -- even in "Glinda," where she's a central character in the action, her thoughts are rarely presented. Dorothy is the viewpoint. Ozma's composure under peril in "Emerald City" and "Glinda" might be seen as considerably more mixed with emotions if her thoughts were being used as the viewpoint. Robin Olderman: Perhaps you imagine Realbad as looking like Erroll Flynn because Realbad is a Robin Hood type, and Flynn's 40's portrayal of Robin Hood is probably the one most people think of first? (Well, Flynn, or Richard Greene, but Greene's version did not aim at the humorously seductive side of Outlawry.) For RPT, "the" Robin Hood would have been more likely to have been Douglas Fairbanks, Sr., and I believe that Flynn's version and Fairbanks' were quite similar. The author-unknown "Ledger" serial that Neill illustrated, "The Real Robin Hood" (which I've been reprinting as last December's and this December's "Dunkiton Press" pamphlets) might have been thinking of the Reginald De Koven "Robin Hood" opera, I suspect. Bear: Somehow or other, I have Doubts that the Scarecrow could walk on his hands for a few miles or even a few steps. (Ray Bolger's Scarecrow probably could?) Of course, in "Wishing Horse," he's coordinated enough to put on an acrobatics display, so I dunno. (Of course, as printed by R&L, the illustration of the Scarecrow jumping over a bar was upside-down, so that the bar seemed to be falling on him, but that wasn't what Neill intended.) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:00:46 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-25-96 Digests are getting longer again. Nice! Steve: I've been a Sustaining Member for several years now, and will probably continue to be whether there are premiums or not. But a premium would certainly be nice. Ah, so that's why I keep having problems finding Dave's FAQ. (Tyler, your link to it has the wrong URL now, too, if you want to fix that.) Ken S.: Straw comes in all sorts of lengths, as would be necessary for things like the Scarecrow's fingers to work at all. (They don't work well in any case, as we know, but he is able to grasp things, which he couldn't if all his straws were 18 inches long.) I don't think his straw tends to settle as easily as Scraps's cotton, though. Good chronology of ROYAL BOOK. I'd never gone into it that thoroughly. I should probably save it as a bit of Ozzy data somewhere besides in the Digest archives, since remembering where to find it if I want it later would be difficult. Actually, a comparable chronology for each book in the FF would be an excellent research project for someone. If it doesn't interest anyone else I'll probably do it myself one of these years. Mike D.: >Other than the central "good" characters in both stories, did we meet ANY friendly >Oz residents in either Cowardly Lion or Gampa (before the final chapter >where Ozma invariably shows up and consigns everyone she dislikes to oblivion)? Well, yes. There are the friendly woodcutters in CL that the lion meets when he's planning to eat one to gain courage. And a friendly Munchkin gives him a dinner while Crunch is escorting him to Mudge. And there are the trees of the Fiddlestick Forest. In GRAMPA the residents of Perhaps City are friendly enough, though not (with the exception of Percy) very courageous. And the sky shepherdess, Maribella, is friendly. So were Forge John and the other Fire Islanders, though they were dangerous through no fault of their own. Those are just cases that I remember (though I did look up details); there may have been others that didn't come to mind. I'm very fond of PATCHWORK GIRL, but Ozma doesn't seem terribly clever in that book as far as I'm concerned. Once she'd decided to let Ojo keep the six-leaved clover, did she ask him for a list of the other ingredients he needed? No, she just asks what's the next thing he needs, which sends him off on a dangerous search for a gill of water from a dark well, when if she'd asked for the complete list it would have been obvious that there was an ingredient that was unobtainable. Of course, then the book wouldn't have been long enough to fulfill the contract, probably... Nathan: I agree that the beginning of GRAMPA was quite funny (though the scenes about the king's head seemed to be somewhat cribbed from THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO). And the character of Grampa was one of the better ones in any of the books. But the magic elixir was overused, the "Here I go by the name of Bill" gag got old fast, and Percy Vere's unfinished verses were exceedingly tiresome. It's one that I only reread for research, not for pleasure. The punishment the gypsies received at the end of OJO didn't seem all that severe to me, at least in the context of the time it was written. They were just banished to Europe; lots of characters returned to our world (though always to America, it's true) voluntarily. Granted, in retrospect we now know that being a gypsy in Europe in the Thirties was highly dangerous, but it wouldn't have seemed that way to Thompson in 1933, when Hitler's plans were completely unknown to most Americans. Robin: No, it's not a game. I'm just a nit-picker, as should have been obvious from my posts all along. :-) I've seen at least two full-blown billboards here in Chicagoland advertising the "Last Chance This Century" video of the MGM movie. It's definitely getting a lot of play. (Now if only the books would get some recognition...) Eric: I'll check your Web site when I send this off. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:07:37 -0400 From: Homer Nathan- Puns! Don't get me started. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but I myself could do with a few less puns in the series. A notably bad one was The Town Crier in Wonder City. Robin- I was lucky enough to get two of the yellow cardboard pillars and two of the full-colored cardboard top signs from the video stand in Wal-Mart. I'm not sure I fully believe that it's the last time this century you'll be able to buy it. I fell for that trick when Fantasia came out, and I can still find it in stores today. Then again, it's only four more years... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 05:57:04 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest again Went out to lunch and was interested to see at the news-stand that the upcoming "New Yorker" (September 30) has an article on Harburg by John Lahr (son of Bert). It's about his whole career, but has some discussion of the MGM "Wizard of Oz." It mentions that the New York Public Library is going to have an exhibit on Harburg, opening soon (a few weeks?). Perhaps some of the east-coasters of this group will go see it and report? ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:36:33 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Magic Tapestries I want to take complete exception to Aaron Adelman's assessment of THE MAGIC TAPESTRY OF OZ. SPOILER FOR THE MAGIC TAPESTRY OF OZ--------------------------------- THE MAGIC TAPESTRY OF OZ by Marcus Mebes and Chris Dulabone is a remarkable achievement. It attempts to link Oz, Greek, Hindu, and modern mythologies into a coherent narrative. The title is very significant: this is a tapestry of many threads which are woven together to form a picture. The main character, Mahira, is used in the opening chapters as a fraudulent Hindu goddess in modern Sri Lanka. The book traces her voyage of discovery of her true identy, which ironically is a Hindu goddess. As in the Mozart opera THE MAGIC FLUTE, this work concerns a struggle between light/order/goodness(?) and darkness/chaos/evil (?) as personified in the Hindu man/god Krishna and the Greek demi-goddess Eris. Intertwined with this theme iare other actions concerning the Skeeziques, part of Mebes' original mythology, very ancient beings tied into the fabric of Oz, Llewop, a Roly-Rogue [see QUEEN ZIXI OF IX] from Dulsbone's A VIKING IN OZ who seems like a relative of the Cookie Monster, a time travel device enabling some of the characters to visit Oz in a period when the future good and wicked witches were learning their craft. The denoument takes place on Olympos where "all the Greek, Norse,Japanese, Egyptian, Babylonian, and Hindu gods and goddesses [far less than Adelman's 17,000] had been invited, including the great goddess Lurline!" Also, the book does not say the Skeeziques WERE created by Adam, only that because of the great antiquity they were said to have been so created. Considering that the principal writer of this book was a High School student at the time, it does not deserve the merciless panning that it received. I wonder if Aaron's assessment might have been affected that its view of the prehistory of Oz does not meld with his. It is not a perfect book but I would give it 2 1/2 stars. END OF SPOILER------------------------------------------------------- Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:19:56 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 9-25-96 Earl: Regarding the "Washington Post" reviewer of the "Wizard of Oz on Ice", it appears she 'doesn't know her Oz from her elbow' ! :):) Gili: I think I found the "Wizard" version you mentioned, with the green glasses inside the back cover. It's illustrated by the Viennese illustrator, Lisbeth Zwerger. Barnes & Noble, in my area, is selling copies at the discounted price of $15.96. Her illustrations are very unique! I had to have a copy. Robin: Yes, everybody seems to be selling the "Wizard of Oz" on video, from Sears & Warner Bros, to grocery super markets. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:22:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Earl - To put it concisely, IMHO reviews of whatever (books, shows, etc.) in the press are for people unable to develop an opinion of their own. Ignore them. Now reviews in something like the Digest are different. They are discussions by knowlegable persons to provide a springboard for discussion. Stephen - Could Eric and I just shake hands.... :) :) Look what happened to the 6-year-old in Kentucky for kissing someone! Eric - I agree - let's just rock on down the YBR. And, I would still like to hear about your teaching job. Patiently, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:53:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-25-96 Whoops, I've goofed. In sending the new pages of my website to my account last night, I included a new table of contents for the FAQ. Trouble is, I'm not done updating the FAQ QUITE yet. But I'm ALMOST done, and should be able to upload them this weekend. BTW, interesting thing I noticed when I checked out how many hits each of my pages got. Tops (with over 1000) was the main title page. Number two was the second MGM movie page, which is the one with the information about the hanging man urban legend -- one of the main reasons I set up my page in the first place! And sadly, the one getting the fewest hits is the one about the post-Baum Oz authors. I guess nobody cares about them . > Eric: > Perhaps your comment on how lack of gifts led you to drop your > contributing membership, and the fact that silent special members > probably felt the same, might encourage the board to revive the > premiums. I don't really mind paying the extra -- when I have it -- but it is a little off-putting not to get anything in return except recognition. > Eric and Bear: > Kiss and make up. We need you both as friends. I am NOT kissing ANYONE on this list! Laura might get angry... > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-96 > > Wonder how I missed "Oogabooites" in TIK-TOK? Oh, well. It's not a very > attractive word, imho; I think I like Eric's (and the group's) "Oogaboos" > better. If I ever write about Oogaboo again... ...you can coordinate with Karyl and me, and maybe we won't contradict each other again. (Hmm, maybe THAT'S the real reason our epilogue was cut from "Queen Ann"...) --Eric Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # "My childhood had an unhappy ending -- I grew up." --Frank and Ernest ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 27, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:15:56 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 9-26 *please post* David H.--Re: Chronologies. Thanks for the comments! Actually, Nathan's comment about Glinda looking in the Book of Records made the same point much more elegantly, without all the time and effort. I was embarrassed that I hadn't noticed it before, and I thank him for pointing it out. Actually... er... there _is_ a comparable chronology for each of the canonical Oz books (with the exception of LUCKY BUCKY, which I read for the first time last month). I did it about 10 years ago when I was fresh out of college, not working, and looking for Ozian research topics to write about. I've never reproduced any of it before now because I wasn't able to get a thesis out of it. Really the only interest it has in its present state is as a curiousity. If you're really interested, though, let me know and I'll email a copy (in my copious spare time ). Re: the Scarecrow's hands. I'd always thought that the gloves that make the Scarecrow's hands never were stuffed with straw. Certainly Neill's illustrations show that the fingers go all over the place (especially at the tips), which wouldn't be the case if they had a fairly stiff substance such as straw in them. My thought would be that the straw extends through the Scarecrow's arms and wrists into the palms of his hands, but the fingers are left fairly floppy. Ruth Berman--I would be interested in knowing if you are familiar with Jean Ingelow's Victorian fantasy MOPSA THE FAIRY. If so, do you have an opinion on how Ingelow's female architypes compare with Baum's Lurline and Ozma? Best to all, KRS ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:31:12 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Make up. O.K., Eric and Bear, you don't have to kiss, just make up. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:39:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-26-96 Dick Randolph - Yes, Lizbeth Zwerger is the one. Aren't the illustrations something? So we now know the book is available both at Barnes and Noble and at Wordsworth (which also carries many "Books of Wonder" books, including "Queen Anne"). It shouldn't be too difficult for others to at least take a look at it... It's a large, grey book published by (I think) North South Books. ***** What's up with the Ozzy t-shirts/badges? Any progress? Dave, have you designed anything? |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' abhillel@fas.harvard.edu '---''(_/--' `-'\_) gili@scso.com http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:14:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-26-96 sorry to post this to the list dave but i tried to write that email addy and it just comes back the anniversy tape is available at most video stores they should still have copies even though the thx version is out now try suncoast or saturday morning matinee or ask your local video store to order it now if your looking for the ultimate oz box set then just go to suncoast or a big chain like that i have both and im planning on getting the thx version to hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:36:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-26-96 David and Eric: What was the Oogaboo-related contradiction? I recently purchased both of your books (_Glass Cat_ and _Queen Ann_), and, as far as I can remember, the only major contradiction was that in _Queen Ann_, all of the men in Oogaboo were named either Jo or Jol, and in _Glass Cat_, some of them had other names. By the way, I enjoyed both of the books. Regarding _Grampa_: Yes, David, the Percy Vere poems did get old quickly. A few of them were slightly humorous, but they were, for the most part, pretty lousy poetry. My favorite poems in the Oz series are probably the earliest Scraps verses (in _Patchwork Girl_) and the Bumpy Man's job description in _Scarecrow_. Some of the other rhymers also had their moments. Regarding _Ojo_: The gypsies' punishment seems a little more severe when we consider that the bandits were merely forced to become farmers. If the gypsies had been given useful jobs like this, they might not have continued kidnapping. But the punishment of the gypsies was not all that severe when compared when some others (like the execution of Mombi, although Mombi, as far as we know, committed far more unlawful acts than did the gypsies). On Thompson: The dialogue in her books sometimes seemed a little better than Baum's, because, as far as I can remember, her dialogue usually related to the story, while Baum often had the characters pull unrelated topics out of thin air, and often have the same conversations over and over again (not that real people do not do these things). Also, although her books often ended in quick fixes, Baum's also did, and Thompson's solutions are not usually quite as simple as Dorothy happening to intervene at the right time (as she did in _Rinkitink_). Overall, however, I prefer to think of the series as a whole, and not to dwell on the weaknesses of authors. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:51:15 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuf ******No spoilers, I think, but discussion on GNOME KING I just finished GNOME KING of OZ, and, suprise suprise to me, I really liked it! There were some things I could have done without, and some of the passages were quite confusing, like the Sea Quake in the beginning, but all in all, quite likeable. PATCHWORK GIRL-- She works really well here, and her character, even in her flaws, is really well used. PETER-- Not bad for a new American in Oz, and it was about time to find a boy visiting Oz. Zeb: "What am I, chopped meat-plant?!" It almost read like the beginning of a series to begin with, if you cut out the beginning with Scraps and jumped right in with Peter. I can see the teaser-- "Wonderful place to jump on in to the Oz series!" PLOT-- This is where the book really shines. I think we had a discussion a while back about Irrevelant Episodes and correlated reader responce. This book is low on the "IE" scale, and it adds tremendously to a streamlined, straightforward book. two thumbs up, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:43:34 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-26-96 Well, I finished the first draft of EUREKA IN OZ yesterday. I said I thought I'd get it finished this summer, and I only missed by three days (summer officially ending 9/22). Now to get on with PROFESSOR WOGGLE-BUG OF OZ... Nathan: I agree with you that the fact that most of the small kingdoms in RPT's books are dangerous isn't really a weakness. Having your travelers run into a small kingdom where everyone is nice and gives them a good meal and a bed and sends them on their way would make pretty boring reading if it took up much space. Baum didn't do much of that, either, and when he did (e.g. in the "tour" section of EC) by golly, it -was- boring! It's true, though, that too many of RPT's small kingdoms seem to be there solely to impede the travelers on their way, with no serious role in the story. Baum does this too, but not as constantly. And in his case it's usually an individual or a non-humanoid race (e.g. the man-eating plants, Chiss, and Yoop in PG), rather than a small kingdom. I think we can be sure that Umbrella Island's 800-mile trip from Big Enough Mountain to the EC was a roundabout one. At one point Umbrella Island is circling over Oz and Waddy decides to take it from there out over the Nonestic in time for dinner (and it was already afternoon). That 800-mile trip might well have virtually circled the entire continent of Imagination/Baumgea. Ruth: EMERALD CITY is certainly the Oz book that goes into the most detail about the social and economic organization of Oz. It's a great source for research. But it's fairly boring through large stretches, IMHO. Not as bad as its two immediate predecessors, but not as good as most of Baum's (or RPT's) books. I don't think Thompson uses Ozma as a viewpoint character very often, either. Aside from HUNGRY TIGER, when do we get inside her head? I saw the Fairbanks "Robin Hood" once (on a big screen with full pipe organ accompaniment; it was neat)(no, this wasn't when it first came out; I'm not -that- long in the tooth! ); the story was very different from the Flynn version, though it was a good movie. The character of RH, though, was similar; both of them were pretty much following the ballads in that respect. Although Harburg did lyrics for a lot of songs, I think his two most famous musicals were the MGM WIZARD OF OZ and FINIAN'S RAINBOW. At least, those are the two scores I think of when I think of him. Homer: WONDER CITY overdid the puns badly, though I suspect that was the work of the R&L editor and not Neill himself, since they diminished greatly in Neill's other two books. Thompson used them mostly for names, and while some of them were too cutesy, most of them were just fun, as far as I'm concerned. Bear: I find reviews in newspapers and magazines useful once I've read enough by a given reviewer to get him or her calibrated. I know, for instance, that if Stanley Kaufmann (or is it Kauffman? Kaufman?) in THE NEW REPUBLIC raves about a movie, I'm not going to like it, but if he cites certain specific reasons for not liking it, I probably will. Eric: I doubt that its disagreement with GLASS CAT was the real reason that the epilog of QUEEN ANN was cut, but it's theoretically possible - BoW had had the MS of GLASS CAT for about 8 months before QUEEN ANN was published. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:26:32 -0400 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy DIgest I forgot to send a post to the digest yesterday, so here is two day's worth of stuff, but first two administrative notes. 1. Some people have been sending me private e-mail to my old address. Note that said address has changed. I can still access my old account, but it will be destroyed before long, so from now on, please send stuff to: 104707,656 I believe I have updated my web page address to send stuff there as well. 2. Somebody asked me about my policy on receiving reviews of Buckethead Books, and I thought I would make the response public. Specifically, this person asked me if a star-rating was required along with the review. While I suppose it is not really necessary, it does help to give people a sense of how much they liked the book. However, if you choose not to rate the book, I will still post your review. However, if you choose to rate it, I would like to ask that everybody use the star system that is explained on my web page in order that the grading be standardized. Steve: I would hope that receiving gifts is not necessary for people to dig down deep and contribute. IWOC is a non-profit organization and giving out special presents to big contributors is expensive. LFB and RPT: I got the LFB books first and got the RPT's only years later. 90% of the time I just read and enjoy them on their own terms. It's only once in a while that such adult things as quality and consistency rear their heads. As someone on the digest said, it's enjoyable to discuss the differences that exist between our perceptions and the books themselves. Which reminds me. SOmebody else said that RPT gets better as the series progresses. I agree with this. If anybody has gotten discouraged over the early RPT's, please read on. THe later ones are generally better. RPT's little kingdoms: It is true that a few "trouble spots" are necessary to keep the story a little exciting, but I believe that there were too many of these incidental places and, for the most part, they were very similar except for their outer appearance. Mike: I also enjoyed _Magical Mimics_. It was very well told, although I did not agree with Snow's decision to completely ignore the 22 post-Baum books. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:06:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS **********POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR "THE GNOME KING OF OZ"***************** Another input in the Great Dimensional Debate! I am reading Gnome King and on page 30 RPT tells us it is "about" 35 miles from the Tin Woodman's Castle to the Emerald City. Not to get too precise, that is about 2.875 inches on the Haff & Martin Oz Map. Thus it is about 6.375 inches to the Deadly Desert which converts to 77.6 miles, EC to border. FWIW While we are playing "Mr. Science," RPT continues to demonstrate zero grasp of basic science as she has her silly "foot-path" travel this distance in less than a minute (p.33). That works out to something like 2,100 miles per hour. Sigh. Children have enough problems with math & science without unloading these kinds of things on them. Yes, yes, I know, but it really seems gratuitous to me. While I am at it, RPT and Neill must not have been gettin along. She keeps talking about the "fat" ministers, "Scrapper" and "Piecer." The accompanying drawings of same show these scrawny, underfed, little men. One wonders how this escaped the notice of everyone involved with the book? Any ideas? ****************** END FUSSING AND FUMING ********************************* Analytically, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Fire and Brimstone 1) Since everyone's commenting on _Grampa in Oz_, I'd like to add that I generally liked the book (despite its echoing _Kabumpo in Oz_ and _The Magical Monarch of Mo_) except for the Forgetful Poet, who I feel a strong temptation to give a sore throat when he becomes public domain. 2) Nathan, the extra arms idea was first used (as far as I can remember) by Thompson in _Handy Mandy in Oz_. Also: What do you mean "_Several_ different people have expressed the thought that Baum went to Oz when he died"? (Emphasis mine.) I thought that was a Laumerism! Then again, if Oz authors go to Oz when they die, that could lead to news-worthy events when I pass on... Marcus Mebes: Heh heh heh heh... I'll be waiting... 3) Homer, I thought the Town Crier was from _The Lost King of Oz_. ***WARNING: INVOLVED DISCUSSION OF SENSITIVE ISSUES IN AND SERIOUS SPOILER OF _THE MAGIC TAPESTRY OF OZ_*** 4) Stephen, it's not impossible for a story to hold views with which I strongly disagree to be liked by me. (See Stanislaw Lem's _The Star Diaries_, two of the stories in which I consider to be nothing less than theologically unrealistic.) What I objected to (among other things) is that _The Magic Tapestry of Oz_ badly mixes religions and is extremely fuzzy in critical places. =20 =09The religious aspect: Mebes's use of pagan deities is not in itself offense, but that he never attempts to reconcile his paganism with Baumian monotheism and his attempts to combine different religions is. =09In Baum's version of Lurline's World, monotheism is THE TRUTH, as reflected most prominently in _The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus_ and _The Sea Fairies_. This was never contradicted in any way by any of the other Royal Historians. Then Mebes comes along and proclaims polytheism as THE TRUTH in Oz. Doing thus, he obligates himself to explain either a) that monotheism and polytheism are indeed compatible, e.g., by claiming that G-d has a severe case of multiple personality disorder, or b) by telling us that Baum was wrong and that either he or his informants lied and why he or they did so. As Mebes does neither, he gets in trouble for contradicting Baum. =09Secondly, Mebes seriously botched his Greek mythology again. Eris may be the goddess of discord, but she is not the goddess of lies. If memory serves correctly, Eris is most famous for getting not invited to a banquet, crashing the party, and causing a dispute by throwing a golden apple among the guests with the words "FOR THE FAIRIEST" on it. Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite each try to claim the prize, and they turn to outside arbitration to settle the dispute, being unable to settle it themselves. The judge, a mortal named Paris, accepts Aphrodite's bribe, which is Helen, the most beautiful woman in the world. Unfortunately for Paris, Helen's husband doesn't approve of the deal, and thus the Trojan War is started. No lies, no deception, no snooping behind the scenes. That's more the style of Hermes, god of theives, liars, and used-car salespeople. =09The fuzziness aspect: I read through the book again and I see your interpretation that Mahira is a goddess by lineage (or to be picky, a demi-goddess). But unfortunately, I could not find anything explicit or hinted at that Mahira was being passed off as a goddess to anyone before she met Krishna. Then again, my knowledge of Hinduism is not very extensive, so I may simply not recognizing things a Hindu would. ***END FIRE AND BRIMSTONE*** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 28, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:10:46 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission Aaron Adelman in the 9/26 Digest questions that anyone other than Laumer said that L. Frank Baum went to Oz after his death. Well, I did, in "Timmy and the Shutter Faces in Oz" in "Oziana," in which it is relayed that Baum went to Oz for a visit before going to somewhere better. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:48:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-27-96 Danny: I also enjoyed _Gnome King_. I agree with most of your comments on it, and I also liked the magical devices. The Flying Cloak of Invisibility, for instance, was an interesting twist on an old idea. *******************Spoilers for _Gnome King_ and _Kabumpo_********************* At the 1995 Munchkin Convention, Eric Shanower gave a talk on Nomes, especially their King, and he pointed out that, while Ruggedo was banished to a desert island for accidentally running away from the palace, he was only forced to lose his speech for seven years after attempting to conquer two Kingdoms (in _Gnome King_). Yes, he was also dipped in the Forbidden Fountain (presumably Thompson wrote this part hurriedly, and forgot that one had to drink the water for it to take effect), but Ruggedo seemed to be largely immune to this water. *****************************END SPOILERS************************************* David: I feel that _Emerald City_ had some good ideas, but that it was hurt by Baum's intention to end the series. In order to give Dorothy a nice place to call home, he placed overly friendly characters in Oz, and had all of the evil ones live on the other side of the desert. The evil beings, however, were probably the most interesting ones in this book. I liked the Scoodlers in _Road_, and the Mangaboos in _Dorothy and the Wizard_, but I agree that these books were probably Baum's weakest. Actually, I probably preferred Melody Grandy's chapters on the Mangaboos (in _Disenchanted Princess_) to Baum's descriptions of his own creations. Gili: What is the animal at the end of your messages? Whatever it is, it is very nice work. Tyler: I have never reviewed a Buckethead book before. I own quite a few, but only brought my very favorite, _Disenchanted Princess_, here to college. If I ever did review one, I would probably prefer not to use the star system, as I have trouble rating things in that manner. Aaron: There are two Town Criers in the Oz series, one in Kimbaloo (_Lost King_) and one in the Emerald City (_Wonder City_). They were similar, but Neill's Town Crier had a larger part in the book. Actually, I was aware that Handy Mandy was the first use of a multiple-armed character. I guess I phrased that comment poorly. Where in his books does Baum advocate monotheism? Even if he does, it does not mean that paganism cannot exist simultaneously. The multiple deities, as they appear in _Magic Tapestry_, clearly do not have ultimate power. I have never read anything by Laumer, but I have seen recent stories, including one in the 1992 Oziana, that portray the deceased Baum as a resident of Oz. -Nathan M. DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:53:26 +0100 From: Bill Wright Subject: FW: Harry Smith, No. 13 I recently received the attached email that may be of interest to Digest members. I attempted to reply to the individual, but the reply kicked back with a message that the email address was not valid. I then contacted the email adminstrator at inch.com, and he told me they had no client by that name or email address. Does anyone on the Digest know who Philip Smith is and how to reply to him? Bill in Ozlo >---------- >From: Philip Smith[SMTP:lhasa@inch.com] >Sent: 25. september 1996 01:59 >To: piglet@halcyon.com >Subject: Harry Smith, No. 13 > >24 September 1996 > >Dear W. R. Wright: > >I was pleased to see that your "Oz" filmography included the >little-known work of Harry Smith, No. 13 (a.k.a. "Oz," "The Magic >Mushroom People of Oz," "Fragments of a Fate Forgotten," etc.). In >recent years I spent some time pursuing the extremely elusive (to me) >story behind this singular work. If you are interested, I could give >a fairly exhaustive account of my (admittedly partial and second-hand) >knowledge of this very unusual film; have you seen any of the >publically-shown fragments of this uncompleted project? (To the best >of my knowledge, only 20-30 minutes of footage survives, of which all >but about 12 minutes is camera-test footage involving extremely >elaborate sets and photography techniques.) > >I would also be most interested to hear from you to know what >information you have about this work. (A very brief essay of mine, >"After Harry Smith," which discusses this film, recently appeared in >the first book about Harry Smith, "American Magus," edited by Paola >Igliori; the book also reproduces [rather poorly, I'm afraid, and in >black-and-white] a few frames from the film [which now resides at >Anthology Film Archives in Manhattan].) While I would imagine it is >primarily of interest to students of the experimental film (and/or >animation), what exists of "No. 13" does have a powerful charm most >evocative of W.W. Denslow's vision of Oz, and I for one think that it >would be of great interest to Oz-enthusiasts, especially if the most >finished part (a 12-minute sample) were restored and re-synchronized >with its original soundtrack. > >Thanks much, and I hope to hear from you. > >--Philip Smith > ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:35:56 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: MAHIRA et al. Aaron: ***MAGIC TAPESTRY SPOILER--THEOLOGICAL DISCUSSION*** Mahira's four artificial arms and third eye are not attributes of a dancer but of a Hindu deiety. Hinduism is a very complex religion that is able to reconcile the concept of thousands of gods with the concept of a single god, the three and three thousand being merely aspects of the ONE. Baum himself was closely connected with the Theosophical movement. The Theosophical Society was founded by Madame Blavatsky about 1880, it held that the various religions were merely exoteric expressions of a universay truth, which was a form of Esoteric Buddhism. Thus Baum's religion in L & A SANTA CLAUS is a form of pantheism not polytheism. In this way Mebes does not contradict Baum, but refines him. There is, BTW, no evidence that the Queen of the Fairies in SANTA is Lurline (or Lulea, or Zerline). Mebes' attempts to reconcile his own new mythology (see LURLINE AND THE WHITE RAVENS OF OZ, a book with which I do not really agree) with Greek and other mythologies was a highly ambitious undertaking (of couse LURLINE'S MACHINE is not a piece of cake). It is true that Eris' most famous myth concerns the Apple of Discord which does not require deception, but in the story of Thyestes and Atreus she made the sun go backwards to frustrate Thyestes, and this was a form of deception. Since her "job" is to create discord and disorder, deception and lies could well be among her tools. ***END SWEETNESS AND LIGHT*** Concerning LFB's post-death location: According to family tradition, LFB's last words were, "Now we can cross the Shifting Sands." (I am not sure of the precise wording of the quotation, as always I am posting from my office and my collection is at home.) So you see Laumer did not originate the idea. Oh yes, the Town Crier is a much more prominant character in WONDER CITY than in LOST KING (although only the latter has a Town Laugher). Ken Shepherd: Your chronologies of all the books would be a very useful tool. Perhaps you could post it to Dave and he could send it (if it is very long) as a special Digest as he did Melody's Palace description. Danny: Your thought that GNOME KING may be the beginning of a series is on the mark. May may look forward to JACK PUMPKINHEAD (which introduces one of RPT's greatest creations, the Red Jinn), PIRATES, and CAPT'N SALT. David: You are right; many of the puns in WONDER CITY were not in the draft. Tyler: It would be nice if you were right about premiums for special memberships. But not all people are as altruistic (or enlightened or wealthy) as you and I. A little laganippe is an inducement to generosity. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:28:48 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Kenneth Shepherd: I've read Ingelow's "Mopsa the Fairy" some three or four times, but somehow have always found it so totally forgettable that I never come away from it with a clear memory of how it goes. David Hulan: A couple of places where RPT uses Ozma briefly as a viewpoint character are when she's getting propositioned by Pompa in "Kabumpo" and by Mogodore in "Jack Pumpkinhead." In both, she fimds the idea of unwanted or coerced marriage distressing (understandably). Aaron S. Adelman: The Kimbaloo Town Crier appeared in RPT's "Lost King," but the Emerald City Town Crier first appeared in Neill's "Wonder City." Now that I've had a chance to read the Lahr article on Harburg, I see that the NYPL exhibit on Harburg coming up will be in November. Lahr's article repeats a point I've seen made elsewhere, that it was Harburg who made the rainbow a central image to the MGM "Wizard," and that there was no mention of rainbows in the book. That's true enough, and it seems plausible enough that Harburg would have come up with the image without having read any of the other Oz books -- but considering that the rainbow is an important image in several of Baum's other Oz books, I wonder if Harburg might have read (perhaps not consciously remembering?) some of them. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:33:40 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuf Neill's drawings-- I want to echo Bear in wondering about Neill's drawings, (Bear, you will also notice that in GNOME KING, the Oztrich appears in the picture of the sultan of suds, with the other heroes, even though he hasn't appeared in the text yet! Boy, that one confused me!) I also remember times in TIN WOODMAN where Niell's art differed slightly from the text (he seems to have a problem with depicting people who are *fat* because they always picture skinny!) Overall, though, it seems that Neill's drawings become less and less elaborately detailed. I look at P.GIRL or at my favoite of Neill's illos, SEA FAIRIES, and am blown away, but later, it seems like the pictures become more simplified in line and detail. The reader's reaction is that Neill was getting burned out or frustrated or something. Anyone else? Danny ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:40:52 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-27-96 Ken S.: I'd love to see your chronologies of the FF if it's not too much trouble for you, but don't make a big deal of it. You could be right that the Scarecrow's fingers aren't stuffed with straw. Maybe the Munchkin farmer used something more flexible (like cotton, or even grain) in those. They do seem to be filled out with something, if you take Neill's or Denslow's illustrations to be accurate. Nathan: The "contradiction" between QUEEN ANN and GLASS CAT is that at the end of QA the pass into Oogaboo has a forest planted in it; in GC it's still a barren, rocky defile. Since there's at least a 40-year gap between the times of the books it's quite possible that the forest didn't fare well in the pass and was moved elsewhere, so it's not an irreconcilable contradiction, but it's a discrepancy. (And the epilog to QA, which I believe had a ski party happening in the forest in the pass, would have made it more obvious.) The naming of the boys isn't really a problem. It's not only possible but probable that boys in Oogaboo don't take up the forename "Jo" (or "Jol") until they've settled into their lifelong occupation and have taken on a new surname as well. The boys in QA have clearly reached that age. The named boys in GC are still using their father's surnames, so they haven't reached that age yet. And presumably, in order to avoid confusion with their fathers, they use a "child-name" (like Jemi or Joli) until they do. This isn't spelled out in either book, but it makes sense and solves any problems. Glad you enjoyed both books. So did I. :-) Danny: GNOME KING isn't really a favorite of mine, but it's considerably better than RPT's first few books, IMHO. Don't forget Button-Bright and Bob Up as other American boys who came to Oz before Peter (and they both stayed, which is more sensible as far as I'm concerned). And in a sense it is the beginning of a series, since Peter appears in two more books in fairly rapid succession, and then the other main good-guy characters of the last "Peter" book appear in two other books, and a minor character in the second "Peter" book is a main character in two more. Definitely the start of something new. Tyler: I've corrected your address now. Hope you got the E-mail I sent to your old one yesterday. Bear: I've assumed that the 35 miles from the Tin Woodman's castle to the EC is along a somewhat winding road rather than as the crow flies. This would let me keep my distance of 60 miles on an air line from the EC to the Deadly Desert. And one has to assume that the travel of the "foot-path" is basically magical, rather than physical. Otherwise, as you say, 35 miles in a minute makes no sense. Aaron: Nathan may be referring to stories that have circulated in the IWOC's Oz Story Circle; I've read more than one that took Baum and other FF authors to Oz after their death. I'll admit that I can't recall a published book I've read that used that premise. There's a Town Crier in LOST KING, but he has a very small role; the Town Crier in WONDER CITY has a much bigger one, and he's in the EC rather than in an obscure little kingdom in the boonies. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:40:46 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Fwd: FW: [Fwd: ATTENTION - New Virus On The Internet - ATTENTION] (fwd) I don't know if this is a real one or another hoax, but it sounds dangerous enough that I thought it was worth passing on, just in case. If anyone knows better, I'd like to know about it. --------------------- Forwarded message: From: AMcClary@platsoft.com (Amie McClary) Date: 96-09-27 10:58:05 EDT >---------- >From: Richard E. Miller[SMTP:remiller@ee.tamu.edu] >Sent: Friday, 27 September, 1996 7:39 AM >To: Amie McClary; Jeffrey Miller; Eric Green; John Moore; Dick & Amie >McClary; Wally Warren; Warren Goda >Subject: [Fwd: ATTENTION - New Virus On The Internet - ATTENTION] >(fwd) > >>Subject: Virus on the Internet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>Importance: High >> >>>> >>>> DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF EXTENSION. A >>NEW >>>> Trojan Horse Virus has emerged on the Internet with the name >>>> PKZIP300.ZIP, so named as to give the impression that this file is a >>>> new version of the PKZIP software used to "zip" compressed files. DO >>>> NOT DOWNLOAD THIS FILE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!! If you install or >>>> expand the file, the virus WILL wipe your hard disk clean and affect >>>> modems at 14.4 and higher. This is an extremely destructive virus >>and >>>> there is NOT yet a way of cleaning this one up. >> >> PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO ANYONE YOU KNOW. >I don't know about the modem stuff... >Richard > > > ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:01:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Ozite Gypsies Just a though: If the Gypsies had been deported at the end of _Ojo in Oz_, how come the inept bandit in _The Forbidden Fountain of Oz_ (can't remember his name off the top of my head ): ) claims 37 years later to have met them in the recent past. I propose three solutions: 1) Only the band that kidnapped Ojo was deported to the outside world. Other bands of Ozite Gypsies remained in Oz. 2) After Glinda discovered using her Book of Records that the Ozite Gypsies were in imminent danger due to Hitler's rise to power, Ozma transported them back to Oz and put them through a correctional program before letting them go free. 3) The Ozite Gypsies were deported, but they found their way back. This is not surprising;=======20 people who have been to Lurline's World once tend to come back again--the Wizard, Dorothy, Button-Bright, Trot, Cap'n Bill, Peter... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:37:04 -0400 From: Homer Kenneth- I would like a copy of that article thing of yours. Aaron- The Town Crier may very well have been form Lost King. But I haven't read Lost King yet, and I have read Wonder City. Regardless, I just don't like him. That's all for today! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:00:02 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest - more harburg I've just started reading the biography of Harburg that came out a few years ago (1993), "Who Put the Rainbow in The Wizard of Oz: Yip Harburg, Lyricist," by Harold Meyerson and Ernie Hareburg with Arthur Perlman. It doesn't say definitely that he did or didn't read any Oz books, but the general description of his childhood sounds as if he probably wouldn't have. His parents and the East Side generally didn't have money for books, and there isn't a mention of libraries as accessible to him then. A school teacher took him and a few of the others in the class to see Maude Adams in "Peter Pan," and his father took him to lots of performances in the Yiddish-language theaters, and that was apparently about it for literature outside school, until he got into high school and was seated alphabetically next to Ira Gershwin, and the influence from that direction was toward light verse. (They both loved W.S. Gilbert.) So he probably didn't know from Oz books, much less Polychrome, and probably was looking at "The Wizard of Oz" for the first time when he came to the movie assignment. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 21:07:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Hmmm - Percy Vere the rhymer. My favorite comic strip was always Alley Oop. Alley had a friend, Foozy, who said everything in rhyme. The strip started in 1933. I wonder if V.T. Hamlin got the idea from RPT? Grandpa was published in 1924. Anybody know any other rhyming characters in literature, etc.? David - Congratulations on your birth! :) Hope the family keeps growing. Don't worry Aaron - Marcus may "kill" you in Oz, but you won't stay dead! :) Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 22:18:44 -0400 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Nathan: RPT was definitely not the only author to use the quick-fix at the end. However, in Baums' defense, _Rinkitink_ was a special case. This story was originally titled _King Rinkitink_ and the ending (which as far as I know no longer exists), had nothing to do with Dorothy or Oz. However, for certain reasons, Baum needed to make it into a genuine Oz book and rewrote the ending. However, overall I also tend to think of the entire series (FF and non-FF) as a homogenous whole, but it is enjoyable discussing the different authors, strengths and weaknesses. Addresses: Cripes! I put my e-mail address in compuserve form. For those of you who are not on CompuServe, here is where to e-mail me privately... 104707.656@compuserve.com Bear: I'll reach into my "explanation for everything" bag and pull this out: RPT's foot path generated a gravitic shell around itself. Since there is no relative motion inside the bubble, travelers could journey in somewhat of a comfortable state. In RPT's defense, making the numbers add up is even less of a priority than internal consistency of the series, and not just for Oz books, although it should be. Bear again: I never noticed the "fat" ministers being portrayed as thin. This may be because while I enjoy the illos, I discount them for purposes of HACC-uracy, and assign no weight to them other as pretty pictures. --Tyler Jones ======================================================================