c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 1, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:18:17 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-96 Aaron - while I was lurking on the rec.pets.cats newsgroup, I came across a lot of messages from people who claimed that their cats had a strong preference for people of a certain gender - some cats preferred men and some preferred women. My Aunt and Uncle who raise cats (they usually have at least ten adult cats in their house in London) claim they've noticed this too. So it appears that cats, at least, can differentiate human gender. (I've never noticed this in either of my cats - one of my cats will go to ANYBODY, and one of my cats will only go to me). As for humans being able to tell apart male from female cats - I'm the one with a Tomcat named Jenny! Myself, I've always thought it was "Ru-GEH-do", and I've always rhymed Lurline with Caroline. But I don't feel strongly about the pronounciation issue. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:41:22 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Club Mailings and Waddles Just a question--which Gazette and Observer are late? I seem to recall my parents forwarding me a set not that long ago, though I can't check, since they, like 99.99% of my Oz collection, are in Connecticut (I'm dreading moving the collection to Long Island--so much chance for mishap!). After seeing mention of Half-Price Books having the Waddle Book, I checked the phone book--there are no Half-Price Books listed in my area. Anyone willing to pick me up a couple copies (one to keep, one to put together :) ? Nate ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 11:15:13 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-30 & 31-96 Not my fault this time that I didn't respond to yesterday's Digest yesterday; I didn't get it until today. (It might have appeared anytime after about 3:30 PM, though; I didn't check my E-mail after that.) 7/30: Rich: As Gili told you today, Percival is the name of one of the piglets in her story, "Pigmentation", in the 1995 OZIANA. And an excellent story it is, too. I can't think of a female dog in any Oz book I've read, though I'd imagine that some of the hounds in Tally-Ho in MERRY-GO-ROUND are probably female. All the ones whose gender is mentioned are male, though. (Since there are references to training pups, there must be female dogs around somewherex) Robin: What other names have variant pronunciations? Well, in Piglet Press's version of EMERALD CITY, Kaliko is "kah-LEE-koh", Jellia is "je-LYE-ah", and Bristle is "BRIS-tol", none of which would have occurred to me. I guess anybody with a sufficiently creative imagination can come up with startling pronunciations of words that look obvious to me but don't have standard English pronunciations. (Dorothy and Betsy and Trot are probably safe - though "Mayre" is open to interpretation.) Maybe "Roquat" is really French and should be "ro-KAH". Maybe "Langwidere" is really Greek (Mycenean Greek, when the "w" sound was still around) and should be "lahn-GWEE-deh-ree". Maybe Voe is really Latin and should "woi". I don't think so, but they're as reasonable as "ru-GED-oh" or "ZEE-zee" or "O-ho". (Especially with names like Kaliko, Jellia, Ruggedo, and Langwidere, where there's an obvious pun in the name, pronouncing them so the pun is lost makes no sense to me.) Bear: Ozma has never done more than scold juvenile characters for using magic, and hasn't often done that. (Kiki Aru did drink from the Fountain of Oblivion, but Ozma didn't know he was a juvenile until that was already set up.) Dorothy uses magic all the time. 7/31: Earl: I can't recall anyone being drunk from alcohol anywhere in the FF; I can't even recall alcohol being mentioned in the FF, though there might be a reference to wine at a banquet somewhere that I don't recall. The Cowardly Lion did get somewhat elevated in OZOPLANING because of something he ate... Gili: I left Fred Otto's jacket with one of the people at Winkie - can't recall her name now, but I talked to someone in authority (Peter Hanff, I think) and they said she was the one who should have charge of it between conventions. By not being able to attend I lost my chance at wearing it through this year's convention until time to turn it over to the new Master (who I hear was Eleanor Kennedy, who wasn't there either). But it was never intended that the jacket be kept by the winner through the year - only to wear it at the convention. Your new E-mail address noted and entered into my Address Book. Aaron: Betsy isn't a wuss, but she's almost entirely passive in the two books where she has a significant role. About the only active thing I can think of she does is picking the Rose Princess, which in itself is just an echo of what Dorothy does in the Mangaboo country. Doesn't mean she doesn't make the occasional sharp retort, but that's still not being active. I wouldn't think non-humans would make many mistakes in determining the gender of humans in Neill's Oz, since the women all wear skirts and the men all wear pants. By Shanower's time, though, it might be harder for them to tell the juveniles apart, especially. (It's often not that easy for a human to identify the gender of juvenile Americans, for that matter.) Tyler: I second Aaron's query: are you accepting reviews of non-Buckethead books? I have all the ECP books and could review them as I have time, but don't have many from Buckethead. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 11:42:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-96 Earl: Thanks for the Uz quote. It sounds like a role made-to-order for Faruiza Balk! Otto jacket:Poor David. We hustled him into that jacket and he sure' didn't look happy about it! For those who have no idea what we're talking about, Fred Otto was a wonderful writer and a Winkie. He used to read an OZIAD (an Oz book set to his own whimsical poetry) to us every year. And every year, he'd wear his green, corduroy jacket to read it in. David won the '95 Fiction Award. Wearing Fred's jacket was an honor we gave him. Virginia Fowler is the jacket's caretaker. Betsy: O.K. She was gutsy once. Mostly she's a wus. A nice enough wus, but essentially a passive wus. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:15:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Earl: I can't remember any drunkeness in the FF, but in the non-FF _Giant Garden of Oz_, Dorothy and the Wizard eat a lunch consisting, among other things, a bottle of Gilikin wine. The word "drunk" was not mentioned, but Dorothy was drowsy afterwards. As for the other part of the verse, well, (ahem) it happens, but I won't say any more about it, lest I get crushed by Kabumpo. :-) Aaron: Now that you mention it, I remember Betsy's gutsy performance in front of the Nome King. As I remember, Rug was impressed. Also, my reviews page is taking reviews of all books OFFERED by Buckethead. In other words, all books that appear on the Buckethead page. I was considering reviews of BEOO books that are no longer in print, but there's really no point, since they can't be bought any more. BTW, I am now Netscape enabled, so I can test my pages myself. Some people have mentioned that the FF do not stand out in the HACC. By the time most people read this (Thursday morning) I can guarantee that the HACC will stand out! :-) http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tyler_jones --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:06:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Extra: The July 1996 Digest is now archived and available. Here are the current file sizes: Dec. 1995 295,882 Jan. 1996 484,257 Feb. 1996 911,170 Mar. 1996 1,141,645 Apr. 1996 834,402 May 1996 794,439 Jun. 1996 784,238 Jul. 1996 655,610 --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:42:38 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Oz Book placement From Scott Olsen This is probably a silly observation, but I remember a conversation with a fellow IWOZ member years ago re: Oz book placement. The other member noticed my books were in order (Wizard to Merry-Go-Round) and remarked that theirs weren't (in other words, they were arranged out of order). I remarked that it looks like you have more books if they're out of order. She agreed, saying that's why hers were like that! Does anyone else notice whether this is true or not? (BTW, mine are still in order.) Thanks. Scott O. ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 2, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 07:00:01 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission Scott Olsen in the 8/1 Digest asks if anyone else notices that books arranged out of order seem to be more than the same books arranged in order. Yes. It is necessary that the order scheme followed (or not followed) is known or obvious to the viewer. If seen as being in order, the books tend to be perceived as a single thing -- the set -- and seem to be fewer than the same books unordered. The unordered books will, of course, drive certain viewers to distraction. Best not to risk that. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 15:22:23 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-01-96 David - thanks for the compliment! Uh, I'm usually not this dull, but what's the pun in Langwidere? |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:24:01 -0400 From: Nathan Faut Subject: Some levity du jour ... From the University of Georgia HUMOR list: ----- From: Douglas Mason Subject: Thought for the day In the Wizard of Oz the Munchkins must have been over-reacting. Their song after the Wicked Witch's death was too severe. After all, how evil could a Witch named "Ding-Dong" be?? ----- Nathan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:19:35 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: For the digest Pronounciation: As a little kid I always said Eve for Ev, until I heard others say otherwise! :) Gili: My mother used to always say our cats preferred certain genders, but I never noticed it. But then, almost every pet (especially cats) I've ever met liked me, so I don't have any basis to judge from the negative. Scott: Personally, I don't think it looks like there are more books if they are out of order. There do, however, seem to be more books if they are in piles at various angles and not neat and lined up. I've always kept my Oz (and other collections) in as strict an order as possible, though sometimes (such as with non-FF Oz books) I've been left with "decisions". Nate ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 10:57:28 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-01-96 Gili: I agree the pronunciation of Oz names isn't a very critical thing. Until there are more Oz fans in the world, the opportunities to actual speak a name to another person are pretty limited. As Robin has pointed out, even at Oz conventions people don't talk about Oz characters all that much. (But "Ruggedo" seems so clearly a pun on "rugged" that I accent the first syllable so it works. Not to mention that the "Rug, the jug" reference in HANDY MANDY doesn't work nearly as well if the accent's on the second syllable.) Robin: I didn't look happy about the jacket? I was! I wouldn't have worn it for the remainder of the evening if I hadn't liked it. (I was unhappy that I needed to lose about 30 pounds for it to fit right, but that was with myself, not the jacket. Not that I've done anything to improve the situation since then, alas.) For the record, though, it's green suede cloth, not corduroy. Scott: I keep my Oz books in order, but most of my other series books aren't in order at the moment, because I've just finished moving from California to Illinois. I periodically get the urge to spend a bit of time tidying the shelves and putting other series in order, but I haven't done it yet here for things like Burroughs and Cabell. (And I never bother doing that with books my wife rereads, because she reshelves them without regard to order. That means I don't try to order Lockridge or Heyer or Marsh or Blake [Nicholas, not William], for instance.) However, having them out of order has never seemed to me to make it feel like there's more of them. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 20:08:27 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: 2nd Digest Submission My copies of the Spring, 1996 _The Oz Observer_ and _The Oz Gazette_ arrived in the mail today. Two copies of each. Two identical mailings. I don't know why two. Friday, on to the Munchkin Convention! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 21:52:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls David - The lack of "adult beverages" in Oz makes me wonder if L. Frank was into the Temperance Movement. Surely our authorities will know about this? I hope there are some adult beverages there to solace some of the adults in their immortality. :) The world is full of strange affectations, having your books out of order, writing without capitals and punctuation, etc..... :) Where is our host, Dave? Busy writing? In hiding with Eric? Earning a living? Drop us a line sometime. :) Busily, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 22:15:56 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Off to Munchkin Con See all you Munchkin conventioneers this weekend! (:-D) Dick Randolph (DIXNAM@aol.com) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:16:35, -0500 From: Donald_Davis@prodigy.com (MR DONALD T DAVIS) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-96 Does anybody know if one of those half price book stores are in Ohio at all, please let me know!! Thanks Don!!! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 00:52:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Pronounciation: In the long run, I am sure that most of us would recognize a name even if someone pronounced it differently than we did, although it is interesting to see the different ways we have come up with pronouncing them on our own. David and Aaron: I would have no problem posting reviews of BOW/ECP books, but the question is would BOW/ECP take kindly to that? Even if it were legal to do so without their permission (which it probably is), I would hesitate to do it without their blessing. I have bought their books for many years and enjoyed a lot of their Ozzy tales. I would not like to upset them. Any comment, Peter Glassman? Robin: I assume this is the Same Fred Otto whose OZIADS were bound in that lovely book a short while back? I really enjoyed reading them. Scott O: As far as the FF is concerned, I cannot imagine any order other than the normal one. After all, the order of publication is the same as the order in which they happened in history. Someone may choose to organize them in an alphabetic sense, but I do not see that this would give the illusion of more books. (unofficial plug): If you want more Oz books, write Chris! And Books of Wonder, of course :-) My Oz books are all ordered chronologically. In the case of the FF, this is also the order of publication, but of course this does not apply to the non- FF. Therefore, when a non-FF title comes in, I decide when it happened in Ozzy history, and place it wherever it belongs. Given my HACC-ness, it would be quite hypocritical of me NOT to have them all in chronological order. :-) Some other series similar to Oz that may or may not be in "order": DRAGONLANCE is a big series with a number of writers. This saga consists of groups of mini-series, three or six books long. On my bookshelf, each mini- series is organized numerically, based on date of publication. With respect to each other, the mini-series are organized based on the date of publica- tion of the first book in the mini-series. Note that DRAGONLANCE mini-series are not always interconnected. Therefore, ordering them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 is not always chronological. Nor are the mini-series chronological to each other. The main difference between DRAGONLANCE and Oz is that the former is under the firm control of one publishing house and a small number of people that determine what is and is not accurate Krynn history. PERN by Anne McCaffery is a series that has been written over several years by one author. The books were not written chronologically, but that is the way they are ordered on my bookshelf. However, Ms. McCaffery respectfully suggests that they be read in the order that they were written. NARNIA has a couple of books that did not take place in the order, but C.S. Lewis had a grand plan when he wrote them, and I have them in numerical order. FOUNDATION by Isaac Asimov is three separate series that were later melded into a super-series. Other books were written later to fill in certain gaps, but these are all placed chronologically. For some reason that I cannot explain, _The Silmarillion_ is placed at the end of THE LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy. Note on the Web: Those of you who have gotten to my web page in the last day or two may have noticed the absence of the web counter. While I considered that to be very important information, it was simply taking me (and others) too long to log in and display it. Maybe when my Java improves, I can design my own. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 01-Aug-96 23:47:01 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Hi everyone! Some people have expressed concern about my not commenting about anything in the Digest lately...Don't worry, I'm still around :) and I'll still be contributing -- I've just been busy lately with other things, including doing the illustrations for _Locasta_! BOOK ORDER: I have my books arranged by publisher -- On one shelf I have the Dover books, on another the Books of Wonder & IWOC hardcovers, on another the Emerald City Press, on another the Buckethead paperbacks, etc. LANGWIDERE: I join Gili in my puzzlement over what the pun in "Langwidere" is... FORGET "GINGEMMA" AND "NESSAROSE"!: Nathan (quoting someone else) wrote: > ...how evil could a Witch named "Ding-Dong" be?? That's funny -- I thought her name was "Which Old Witch"! :) :) FAIRIES: A quick question: In the Baum universe (i.e. in the Fairy bands of Lurline, Zurline, etc.) are there any *male* fairies? NARNIA: Tyler mentioned Narnia...IIRC, all the Narnia books are in chronological order except the "prequel" _The Magician's Nephew_. BTW speaking of pronounciations, how is "Aslan" supposed to be pronounced? When my dad read the books to me he always said "AZ-len" (with a short 'A'), but most Narnia dramatizations seem to say "ASS-lan", which doesn't sound right to me... Has anyone ever written an essay comparing Lurline with Aslan? DELPHI HAS ABOLISHED ITS $9/HR. DAYTIME SURCHARGES...I CAN NOW NET-SURF ANYTIME OF DAY AND NOT PAY THROUGH THE NOSE! YAY!!! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 3, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 11:46:20 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-96 Dave - "The Horse and His Boy" is chronologically the third Narnia book, because it takes place in the middle of "the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe". I used to have two sets, one in the order they were written, one in chronological order. All my books are neatly alphabetised, my books are very well organized and very tidy. Unlike any other aspect of my life or room. One thing I do like doing though, which my mother cannot comprehend, is have at least five books out at a time. She thinks that's being messy, I think it's like a statement: this is what's going on in my mind right now. I like having my books visible because they reflect who I am. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 08:51:05 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: A Suggestion Forgive me if someone came up with a similar suggestion in the period I was away from the digest, but... Would there be any interest in an "Ozzy Digest" T-shirt (with Dave's approval of course, not that it would be difficult to obtain ;) I just thought it would be neat to see someone at a convention or a festival whom you didn't know previously wearing a shirt and realizing they're from the digest. I already have some ideas about what the design could be [BTW, a couple years ago The National Midnight Star, the Rush (the rock band) fans mailing list, did their own T-shirt. It was really cool seeing people wearing the shirt when I saw the band on their Counterparts tour]. Just a thought (or two, or three...) Nate ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 09:39:49 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Book orderings.... Well, since Tyler gifted us with his detailed account of the way he ordered books, I just thought I'd say that while my Oz (and for that matter, Xanth) books are arranged by publication date, other "series" (Dr. Who and Star Trek, for instance) are arranged on my shelf chromatically, i.e., first those books with the red covers, then those with the orange, etc..... --Mike "Polychrome??" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 11:04:58 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-96 Gili (and Dave): The pun in "Langwidere"? "Languid", which the lady certainly is; all she wants to do is sit around admiring her head-of-the-day. Bear: I don't remember any reference to Baum's being involved in the Temperance Movement, but I'm no authority on Baum's life. I'd expect that his lack of reference to adult beverages was more because he wasn't writing for adults; one needn't be part of the Temperance Movement to think that kids shouldn't be drinking alcohol. Don: There's a Half-Price Books store in Cincinnati, because I was in it (and bought some books and saw the WOZ Waddle Book, though I didn't buy it because I already have one) back in late June. If I recall correctly, it's in a mall on the east side of Montgomery Road just north of where it crosses I-71 near the northern edge of the city (Montgomery crosses I-71 two different places; it's not the one near downtown). Depending on where you live in Ohio, this might or might not be useful to you. Tyler: It's certainly legal to post reviews of ECP books (or any other books); there's no question about that. As to whether Peter (and his associates) would take kindly to it, he'll have to answer that himself. I can't imagine that they wouldn't take kindly to favorable reviews - that's good free advertising. Pans, or even tepid reviews, might be taken less kindly. I separate the FF from the non-FF books; I have the FF, then the IWOC books in publication order, then the ECP books in no particular order, then the Buckethead books in no particular order, and then the odds and ends of other Oz fiction grouped by publisher if applicable. Exceptions are that I put LITTLE WIZARD STORIES with the FF, between EC and PG, and the Random Housies, Shanower graphic novels, and foreign-language versions (Latin, Russian, and Hebrew) are all on another shelf, following Baum's and Thompson's non-Oz books that I have. (Because of space constraints, my non-fiction Oz-related material is in a different bookcase entirely.) Dave: I don't think Baum ever mentioned a male fairy, though there are many male immortals of fairy-like nature mentioned in SANTA CLAUS - the knooks, ryls, light elves, etc. Zurline, incidentally, isn't a fairy either; she's a wood nymph, and they're distinct from the fairies proper. If you count her as a fairy, then you should count the other immortals as well, in which case there are a lot of males. And THE HORSE AND HIS BOY occurs chronologically during the last chapter of THE LION, THE WITCH, AND THE WARDROBE, although it was written fourth or fifth in the series (I forget if it was before or after THE SILVER CHAIR in writing order). I think a lot of people tend to forget that book, since it has little to do with the basic continuity of the series. Incidentally, I have completed my essay on Ozma's rulership qualities. I think it's probably too long (38K) to send to the Digest directly, but anyone who is interested in seeing it can E-mail me and I'll send them a copy. (I need to convert it to a text-only version and put in ALL CAPS for the titles rather than italics, but that's no big deal.) It will also go to the Oz Research Group for the fall mailing. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 10:30:42 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Hmmm, Digests seem pretty light as of late (of course, once said, see the posts go up!) I've just signed up on another e-mailing list for the Disney animated GARGOYLES series. Love the series, but the list seems much more like a newsgroup than this home-y feeling Digest. "I love you, guys!" "Shhh, you're not getting our Oz Lite." Book shelves-- I'm afraid I have no consistency when it comes to ordering my books. I have all my Oz by year of publication, except the non-Baum Ix, Mo, etc. which are at the end. Go fig. The non-FF that I don't like are at the opposite end of my bookshelf! Otherwise, I go ascending order left to right. My Hardy boys are all in that order, some of my fantasy series (Death Gate Cylce by Weis and Hickman-- read it if you like good fantasy! Plug Plug!) this is placed in ascending order right to left. I dunno. Then again, I do feel more comfortable using the mouse with my left hand! (I'm not normally a lefty) I need new shelves, I guess. Some of my books are getting stacked in literally ascending order bottom to top (nadir to zenith!) Man-fairy-- Wasn't this a Baum short story printed in a Bugle recently? Spring? Fall 95'? Can I throw out anther info. request? What types of games do Oz people play? FF info as well as non-FF can be looked at. I know that in WICKED WITCH, Cap'n Bill and others are playing croquet. Did Baum have his people play any games? Hmmm, Hardy Boys in Oz. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 13:42:29 -0500 From: Michael Vincent Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-96 Re:Male Fairies The only possible male fairy I can think of off hand in Baum would = probably be Wisk, one of Santa Claus' helpers... he is described both as = "he" and as a fairy from the "Fairy Queen" (of Burzee)'s band and is = mentioned both in *The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus* and "A = Kidnapped Santa Claus" Thompson mentions an "old Fairy Man" in *Cowardly Lion* and of course there are numerous males among the many races of = immortals--I assume they would be considered fairies also.... Michael ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 15:56:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Bear: Fear not! There are two examples in non-FF books about adult beverages. I already mentioned the bottle Gilikin Wine (I assume their grapes can't be beat!) and the other was in _A Murder in Oz_, by Jack Snow. After "the children" had gone to bed, Glinda was seen drinking a cocktail and the Shaggy Man was smoking a cigar. A young man (obviously a bartender) entered the room and proceed to mix certain "refreshments" according to the guests individual tastes. Male Fairies: It is possible that fairies do not really have gender, but usually choose to appear female due to the nurturing aspect traditionally associated with being female. Ereol, in _Queen Zixi of Ix_, chose to appear male when s/he presented the magic cloak to Fluff. Dave: _The Horse and His Boy_ took place around the "end" of _The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe_. Anyway, I've always said "AZ-lan" like "As the World Turns" and "The LAN is a flash in the PAN". I've heard it pronouced with the soft "s" on the cartoon presentation of _Lion, Witch & W_. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 16:48:52 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Oz Gili and Dave: Langwidere = Languid air (and she certainly has one.) All of you who are now at the Munchkin Convention--happy hunting. After tomorrow I leave for Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. Order: My arrangement of Oz and Baum books is as follows: Top of Bookcase 1: Oversized books. Shelf 1: LFB's Oz books in order including Little Wizard Books and 1939 abridgments; Shelf 2: Rest of FF in order and WHO'S WHO. Shelf 3: LFB's non-Oz fantasies; RPT's non-Oz books; DARK MUSIC. Shelf 4: LFB's pseudonymous writings; Volkov's books. Bookcase 2: Top and shelves 1 & 2: Miscellaneous, often non-book, items. Shelf 3-4: Apocryphal books arranged alphabetically by author. Related books: Translations, biographies, abridgments, later editions, critical works. Probably no one is interested, but the subject seems to have ome up. Carol Mitchell: Tell us about the Oz Festival at Oz Park in Chicago. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 23:13:46 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Baum/Temperance Movement From Scott Olsen Re: Bear's question whether Baum was involved in temperance movement. From the information I have, my answer would have to be no. Several years ago an acquaintance of mine was checking the archives from the Hotel del Coronado (which are housed at San Diego State University). She said she found that the Baums stayed in a VERY expensive room and their room service bill showed they ordered "a lot" of wine. Unfortunately, I have not had the time to check on this myself, but I don't see any reason why I should doubt this person. The archives probably contain a wealth of little-known information about Baum, and someday when I get the time or retire I intend to check them out. In the meantime, the archives are there for anyone who cares to check. The dates of Baum's arrivals, for some years at least, are already known. It probably wouldn't be that hard. Finding the time is another thing altogether! In addition, I'm sure the Uplifters club (which Baum helped found), was, like most men's organizations of the day, founded on the principle of getting around the law (then) that you can't get a drink on Sundays. Their program for 1917 makes it clear. But what the heck, I like a drink once and awhile too! ;) Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 19:16:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Bizarre Comparisons in Oz Just some quick comments: 1) My historically-accurate Oz books (those which are in Charleston) are in order, but the non-Oz Baum books and the historically-inaccurate Oz books (_The Dinamonster of Oz_, _A Barnstormer in Oz_) are not. 2) Amused by the suggestions for the name for the Wicked Witch of the East. 3) Never thought of a comparison of Ozma and Aslan, though Aslan and Lurline might be more comparible. (Would that make Tititi-Hoochoo comparible with Tash?) When I started reading _The Nevereding Story_, I wondered if the Childlike Emperess was comparible to Ozma. Then I got to the part about the Old Man of the Mountain and decided against it. I could see Lurline and Tititi-Hoochoo paralleling the Childlike Empress and the Old Man of the Mountain very vaguely, though arguably the latter two are better comparable to the Magic Machine of Adelmanian Oz! Then again, Fantastica and Lurline's World are conceptually very different, so any direct comparison is likely to run into serious trouble. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 4, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 22:00:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-96 Aslan: FWIW, I say AZ-lan. Compare him to Lurline? They're quite dissimilar, aren't they? Aslan is essentially a religious power. Lurline seems entirely secular. That's the biggest difference, I guess. Tyler: Yes, Fred Otto wrote the OZIADS. The reason you put the SILMARILLION last is probably because it came out after THE HOBBIT and LOTR. David: I wonder if the reason that two very sharp people didn't get the pun in "Langwidere" is a function of age. The word upon which the pun is built (I'll let you divulge that word) is rather old-fashioned. I hope all those Munchkins are having fun. Robin--gnashing teeth in frustration 'cause she couldn't go--Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 23:11:45 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: misc Dave Hardenbrook writes: > I join Gili in my puzzlement over what the pun in "Langwidere" is... It looks like it came from "languid dear", and she certainly was languid. I'm not sure I would call that a pun, though. > A quick question: In the Baum universe (i.e. in the Fairy bands of Lurline, > Zurline, etc.) are there any *male* fairies? Zurline is a Wood Nymph. The Nymphs are all girls, as are the fairy bands of Lulea and Lurline. The Mermaids in SEA FAIRIES are also all girls. Tititi-Hoochoo is male, and his people seem to be both male and female. The knooks and Ryls seem to be male. > Has anyone ever written an essay comparing Lurline with Aslan? Aslan created the Narnian universe, just as the Supreme Master created the Oz universe. Lurline is just one of the immortals created by the Supreme Master. Thus, Aslan and Lurline aren't really comparable (unless you want to argue that Lurline is really the Supreme Master incognito. :-) However, one might compare Aslan in PRINCE CASPIAN to Ozma. Most of this book is spent in getting the characters to where the action is, then Aslan hops in and solves all the problems without any real assistance from anyone. Then he runs around and dispenses arbitrary justice and punishment without even letting the accused speak. Sound familiar? :-) -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 02:15:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest I just got a message from somebody. I am not completely sure of the answer, so if anybody could e-mail him privately, he would probably appreciate it. ********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE ********** Hi, I was wondering if you could help me. In the 1939 Movie, can you tell me what exactly the soldiers are chanting as they march into the witch's castle? It sounds like "OH ye oh, e oh oh," but I understand it is actually chant of words. This is driving me crazy, I hope you can help! Thanks, Tom Lewis TLEWIS@BOCANET.COM ********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE ********** ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 14:13:51 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-03-96 Digest, the truth is, I spend hours arranging and rearranging my books. Its like a disease with me. The only books I have arranged chromatically are andrew lang's fairy books (THE RED FAIRY BOOK, THE ORANGE FAIRY BOOK, THE YELLOW FAIRY BOOK, etc. in the Dover edition the color of the binding matches the color in the title). I need to have a special bookcase made for my Oz books, but in the meantime they are stored on a shelf here and a shelf there - I need more than one shelf for translations alone (14 languages!), and the other books are arranged first by size obligations and then by some chronological or other sensible order. Nate - I love the idea of an Ozzy digest t-shirt! In fact, I have no Ozzy t-shirts at all, I really want one. would you be willing to take care of this? You know, count the number of interested digesters, choose a design, put in an order at a t-shirt shop, collect the money, mail the shirts to thier various destinations? It would be inordinately expensive to do this in Israel and mail the shirts from here, or I would volunteer myself. May I be vain enough as to suggest our Nick Chopper logo on front? |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 08:59:05 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-03-96 Nate: I'd be interested in an Ozzy Digest T-shirt if there were enough other Digest people interested to make it likely that it would assist in meeting them at conventions. If only half a dozen people were interested then I'd be less so. (And no, you're the first one to suggest it, unless I missed it myself - and I've read every Digest since late January.) Danny: I'm another one who isn't normally a lefty, but is more comfortable using a mouse (or, when I can get it, a trackball) with my left hand. I do have a strongly dominant left eye, so I'm acutely uncomfortable trying to read something to the right of the keyboard (my nose gets in the way). I don't remember any mention of a specific game in Baum's books, though he did refer to Ozma and the girls playing games in a general sense. Thompson has them playing blind-mans-bluff in ROYAL BOOK, hide-and-seek in HUNGRY TIGER and JACK PUMPKINHEAD, and croquet in HANDY MANDY and I think one more (I remember an illo of the Scarecrow tripping over a wicket, but I can't place the book). And, of course, there's the Game River in LUCKY BUCKY and the very similar Game Preserve in OZMAPOLITAN. Tyler: I've always used the voiced [z] sound in "Aslan", but with a schwa for the final vowel (just like in my own name). "AZ-l'n", more or less. Steve: Actually, the Oz Festival has been moved from Oz Park to Lincoln Park the last couple of years. The proceeds still benefit Oz Park, though. I'll be going to it, too, and will report in my response to Monday's Digest. If there are any Chicago-area lurkers here, Carol and I (and families) are meeting at the statue of the Tin Man (it's the movie version) in Oz Park at 1:30 on Sunday; join us if you like. (I'll be the guy with the gray beard wearing a Panama hat; there probably won't be two of us answering that description...) Scott: Thanks for the info on Baum's drinking. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 11:31:51 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Oz This will be my last posting for awhile as I am leaving early tomorrow for over a week (that would give you an opportunity to break into my house and take my Oz collection--I am NOT posting my home address. I expect to see Fred Meyer next Thursday at his sister's house. The poor man has been away from HIS collection for more than half a year. The Baum short story "The Man Fairy" which appeared in a recent BUGLE (without any form of information about where it had previously appeared), has nothing to do with real fairies or any type of fantasy (unless you think that a rich person showing unsolicited generosity for which he gets no tax break or publicity is fantastical). I will have a lot a digests to digest on August 13. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 18:12:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Half-Price Books outlets Don: In addition to the store in Cincinnati, there are Half-Price Books branches in Cleveland, Dayton, and Columbus. If anyone else is interested in locating one of their stores, you can call the flagship store in Dallas at (214) 363-8374 to see if they have a branch in your area. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 17:57:43 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Um, forget my comment about the man-fairy in the BUGLE. After I posted my comment, I went back and actually *read* the story. (What's this? Water of Oblivion? Mmm, it's so tasty, too! Now, did I write that last comment? Can't seem to recall. . .) Danny, uh, I think. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 21:52:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Male Fairies I believe that Titit-Hoochoo and his male subjects are all fairies. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 5, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 00:44:52 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: Munchkin Convention Hi, folks! Please send details, impressions, etc. (photos???!!!) of the Munchkin Convention to munchkin@ozclub.org - I'd like to get some reports out on the web as soon as practical! Thanks in advance, Jim Vander Noot ------------------------------------- Name: International Wizard of Oz Club E-mail: International Wizard of Oz Club Date: 8/4/96 Time: 12:44:52 AM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 01:46:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-96 Half-Price Books: I believe there are some in Berkeley, CA. T-Shirts: Sounds like a cute idea. Try Bruce Conklin (he's on CompuServe, I think) for a good rate. I like Gili's logo idea; would it "translate" well for a t-shirt? If not, I suggest something like an illustration of Gili's Tin Woodman reading Glinda's Great Book of Records...except that the book would be labeled "The Ozzy Digest." I'll have to wait 'til I get back Wednesday night to read the reports I hope some of you will post on MunchkinCon. I'll betcha Eleanor did a super job of chairing it--and I'll bet she's exhausted! OZIANA '97: The issue will be loaded with DIGESTers. I'd really like to use Eleanor's Braided Man story. Y'all, it's GOOD. (Which doesn't surprise any of us, does it?) Dave's already said I could use his wild and weird Oz "ad," and Tyler says I may use his generic Oz story. BTW, wasn't it neat how much DIGEST stuff made it into the pages of the GAZETTE? Talented folks here! Thanks to the GAZETTE (or was it the OBSERVER?) I know just where to sit to get the best Oz view in the movie ride at Disney World. Ah, the benefits of IWOC.... --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 18:56:25 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-96 I have been convinced that Langwidere is a pun. In fact, "languid air" is the best argument I've heard for pronouncing the name differently than I had up to now. "languid, dear" is a lot less effective! David - Jack Punmkinhead and the Scarecrow played quoits in LAND. I don't really know what quoits is, but I fancy it is rather like croquet with different rules. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 13:16:07 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: dhjxnn Gee. yet ANOTHER cheap shot at Dinamonster. This seems to have become a daily thing now. I'm not sure if it's the same guy each day, but it sure isn't enjoyable to be insulted every day. Especially when no one seems to have anything GOOD to say about my work (No, I did not write that one, and actually Steve Teller put up most of the $ for its printing, but a daily cheap shot at it still hurts my reputation -and obviously my feelings). Don't you have the right to edit these things so they do not insult your readers? I know that, at one point I said something you thopught would bve insulting, and you edited that. Or am I singled out as someone who SHOULD be insulted? That sounds probable, actually. And admittedly, it does go along with the attitude of everyone else in the world. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 13:26:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Gili: In theory, I try never to have more than one book out at any given time. In practice, I never even come close. Nate: The T-Shirt is a pretty good idea. I'm glad that you didn't suggest a secret handshake, though. :-) At the entrance to the Oz Speakeasy: (knock knock) Dave: What's the password? Tyler: The magic belt makes your wish come true Even in Munchkin's land of blue Ozma rules from the Emerald City No other queen is half so pretty Gloma's forest is colored with black Now let me in so I can work on the HACC! Dave: Enter, brother Tyler. Games: In _Yellow Knight_, members of Ozma's court are playing leapfrog, running races and playing checkers. Also, at the Wogglebugs College, the students engage in all sorts of athletics. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 13:31:47 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: gee, no personal slam today? Just read today's Digest. Nothing at all about BEoO books. I guess I should feel relieved, huh? Actually, I am using a computer here that is actually LOUSIER than the old one, even though it is a lot newer. We are no longer to access Tyler's page of hateful reviews (nor, sadly, anything else not carried by AOL). Again, I should probably feel glad I can't see it. I am told that it has become even more hateful and spiteful than it was back when I COULD access it. One thing, though, that might be too co$ty to be realistically considered, but that I thought was pretty cool: The Toy Network has a newsletter (though not a DAILY one) that comes out in full color! It is all text, no pictures, but it is in lots of different colors. I thought that was rather pretty. It might make the digest look prettier if, say, items dealing with the Winkies were in yellow, Gillikins in purple, etc. Even the toy network is not including pictures, but that might be a possibility, too. Though I really don't know how this is done. While this computer is able to show me that stuff in color, I do not have any idea how to SEND mail in color... ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 16:23:37 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Munchkin Convention '96 Back from the Munchkin Convention, and the Digest T-shirts that Nate suggested would have come in handy there. It wasn't until Saturday afternoon that I met Scott Cummings. (Nate Barlow DID arrive on Friday evening) Digest members Herm Bieber, Earl Abbe, Jane Albright, Sharon and Chris Warkala were also there. Eleanor & John Kennedy and crew did a really great job with the convention, from the programs presented, to the decor. And the Radisson Hotel provided excellent mealtime fare. The Auction, run in fine and humerous fashion by Patrick Maund, enabled me to improve my collection and deplete my bank account at the same time!!. :-) Club President, Peter Hanff was in attendance and presented this year's Munchkin Award to Rachel Cosgrove Payes. Excellent slide presentation/talks were given by Eric Shanower, on The Wicked Witch, The Runaway and Me; by Michael Gessel on Jack Snow, The Mystery Man of Oz; and by Ozma Baum Mantele, My Quest for L. Frank Baum. Bill Stillman interviewed Evelyn Copelman, The Lost Illustrator of Oz, who illustrated the '50's editions of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, with little or no recognition. A good time was had by all, though attendance seemed to be down quite a bit as compared to the past two years. A large "get well" card, created by Eric Shanower, was signed by everyone and will be sent to Fred Meyer. Dick Randolph (dixnam@aol.com) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 20:57:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Danny - Thank you! Now I understand why some current political figures can't seem to recall things. Someone slipped them the Water of Oblivion! Synchronicity #437 - We were talking about book thieves. Found in the San Jose Mercury on 7/31 - "Two Are Arrested In Book-theft Case" A statewide book theft ring that netted an estimated $6 million in 10 years has been broken up by police, authorities said Tuesday. San Francisco bookstore owner John Capman and Marin City flea market book merchant John Gundlach were arrested Saturday. The two were charged with conspiracy and attempting to receive stolen property." Fascinating. I wonder how they decided on $6M? Well, I can tell you, I will sleep alot better now. If anyone sees any more about this, please share. *********** SPOILER ALERT FOR THE LOST KING OF OZ ********************** Well, I just finished LK and found it to be a big improvement on RPT's previous writing efforts. She is moving up the learning curve. Some items of interest and some problem areas: Returning to the magic discussion - We learn from Mombi that there is green and blue magic, word magic, number magic, fire magic and smoke magic! There is a book of green magic with at least 986 incantations. We also learn that kindness and generosity dull green magic. This is how Snip, a mere child, is able to help Tora escape from the Blanks and the green magic holding him there. However, the real shocker is that the same green magic used by scuzzy old Mombi was too strong for Lurline. Give me a break! The fairy that created Oz can't deal with a gnarly old witch!!? I think RPT really lost it here. And what do we do with old Mombi at the end of the book? Mombi, whose powers were supposedly taken away. Douse her out of existance without a trial or even an interview! Dorothy's idea and Ozma's order. Well, I remember from Indian history if they had a captive they really didn't like they turned him over to the squaws. Women are tough! Then there is the Cat Queen, another female in this book, who decides they are going to "maul and tease Snip to death," and eat Pajuka. Here we have an Oz book where the females do all the mean, evil and cruel things or try to, and the males are all kindly and loving, like the Lost King of the title, the faithful Pajuka, Snip, etc. I don't think I care for RPT's view of Oz, but I will forge on to seek further enlightenment in the next book, "The Hungry Tiger of Oz." [Isn't he the one who likes fat babies?] Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 21:09:28 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission I returned home this afternoon from the Munchkin Convention, safe and without incident. I do have several convention observations that I would like to share over the next several days. First (and foremost) observation: It was a very well organized affair. Saturday evening, co-chair John Kennedy mentioned that he and Eleanor had little to do at the convention, just essentially pushing the start button. When I pointed out to them that this was obviously the result of thorough and careful preparations, John said that Eleanor really did all the work. She then asked if one should really wait until the curtain goes up to check out the props. Obvious enough when said that way, but still a dictum not usually followed. The Kennedys and the folk working with them so hard behind the scenes did a great job. (Applause!) In the 8/3 Digest, ozbot asks, Clearly the Oz people do play games. Tollydiggle's prison in PATCHWORK GIRL contains "a cupboard containing all sorts of games" and the book implies she and Ojo played a game before his bedtime, when he was a prisoner there. No descriptions of the games are given, however. Grampa, in his namesake book, has a genuine game leg that contains the game of scrum which is played on a board with little red figures and is "a bit like checkers, a bit like parchesi and a bit lit chess." ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 21:47:32 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: essays and fairies DavidXOE@aol.com writes: > Incidentally, I have completed my essay on Ozma's rulership qualities. I > think it's probably too long (38K) to send to the Digest directly, but anyone > who is interested in seeing it can E-mail me and I'll send them a copy. This would be great as a special edition of the digest. I would like to see it, so if you don't send it to the digest then please mail me a copy. Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> writes: > It is possible that fairies do not really have gender, but usually choose > to appear female due to the nurturing aspect traditionally associated > with being female. Ereol, in _Queen Zixi of Ix_, chose to appear male when > s/he presented the magic cloak to Fluff. You have an excellent point. The Supreme Master clearly wanted the number of true immortals to remain fixed, thus he would not have given them the ability to make more of themselves. In other words, no matter how good your charm spell, if you expect more than hugs and kisses from one of Lurline's fairies you will be sorely disappointed. :-) (Fairies do seem to have relatives, though. For example, Princess Clia is supposedly the daughter of Queen Aquareine, yet both were created by the Supreme Master. The relationships seem to be assigned, not biological.) -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 04-Aug-96 21:46:24 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things RECENT REMARKS ABOUT _DINAMONSTER_: Chris wrote: >I know that, at one point I said something you thopught would bve insulting, >and you edited that. Or am I singled out as someone who SHOULD be insulted? I think I've said this before, but I have officially ceased trying to be a "policeman" on the Digest...If I try to spare one person's feeligns, I will only offend someone else (i.e. the person whom I have censored), so I'm just not doing it anymore. Except in cases of profanity (which so far has never ONCE been a problem), from now on I will respect the First Amendment and everyone's messages will be appear in the Digest verbatim. (BTW, If someone criticizes a Buckethead book, they are *not* attacking Chris personally, but I'll say that I *like* the Buckethead books I've read!) OZZY TEE-SHIRTS: I want to add my vote in favor of an Ozzy Digest T-shirt! We all need *something* to help broadcast our love of Oz to the world!!! (Although I'd personally like to wear instead a big Ozzy badge of some sort...) CRULLERS: I think the mystery about what crullers are has been solved, as I came across some in the store today. They look like glazed donuts but are flat and have spiral grooves that give them a pinwheel-like appearance. (I didn't have the opportunity to try one though...) FAIRIES: You will note that I have not commented on the assertions about the neuterness of Lurline's fairies...This is because I know better now than to invite *more* flames. I'll just say that it (like many things about Oz) is an issue where no one can claim to be the one with the final and irrefutable answer... FAQ: Along with today's Digest, I am also sending the new version of the Ozzy Digest FAQ sheet. It is also now on my web site. I invite your comments... "WHAT'S THE PASSWORD?": Tyler's verse is now the official mandatory password for accessing the Digest! (Just kidding folks!) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 6, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 11:44:32 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-96 Wish i could haave been at the Munchkin convention! It sounded terrific... Chris - you shouldn't interpret criticism of Buckethead books as a personal offence against you. You're the publisher. I think you have the right to credit yourself with some if not all of a books success, but you should not be offended by reviews. I don't thik most review writers consider the editor's feelings when writing a book review - unless they have specific criticism aimed at the editor, as happened with Peter Glassman. But someone who complains about, say, the inferior quality of the binding of a certain Buckethead book probably *DOESN'T* mean to say "Chris Dulabone is a so-and-so and should be kicked of the digest", but rather: "It would be good if the quality of the binding were better". I haven't had the oppurtunity to do more than glance at Tyler's homepage, but my first impression was that the HACC gives Buckehethead books in general a boost, by advertising them alongside the FF and listing all of them in a set site on the Net. In other words, we will try to be more sensitive, and you should try to be less! and I've said all I mean to say on this subject on the digest, anyone agreeing or disagreeing should direct their comments to me personallyt. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 10:19:59 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: Ozzy Digest shirts Hi all, I just returned from the Munchkin Convention, which was a wonderful weekend of fun. I was glad to meet many of the folks on the Digest. As one who is not "into" T-shirts, I would like to suggest an OZZY DIGEST button. It would also be MUCH less expensive. Any designers? Before I forget, The Kennedys, Chris and Phil did a wonderful job with the convention. I am in a hurry now, but would like to post some observations about the convention soon. Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 10:33:54 -0400 From: "Mark A. Semich" Subject: Quoits Gili Bar-Hillel writes: > > David - Jack Punmkinhead and the Scarecrow played quoits in LAND. I > don't really know what quoits is, but I fancy it is rather like > croquet with different rules. I don't know much about it either , but it looks like one throws rings at a post rather than hitting a ball towards a post. After I read this definition, I had a vague deja-vu impression that I may have actually played this game at some time in the far distant past: 1 quoit \'kwaEt, 'k(w)oGit\ n [ME coite] (15c) 1: a flattened ring of iron or circle of rope used in a throwing game 2 pl but sing in constr: a game in which the quoits are thrown at an upright pin in an attempt to ring the pin or come as near to it as possible 2 quoit vt (1597) :to throw like a quoit ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 11:19:29 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-04 & 05-96 Well, I tried to go to the Oz Fest at Lincoln Park yesterday, but I hadn't realized how tough it would be to park within a mile of the place. Marcia and I met fellow Digestian (not to be confused with Digestion) Carol Mitchell at the statue of the Tin Man in Oz Park - there was parking there, at least when we arrived - but I have bad feet, and they're not up to walking a mile on pavement, spending some time wandering around a Fest, and walking a mile back, so we tried to drive to someplace closer. If there was a parking place, we couldn't find one, and the traffic was horrendous, so eventually we dropped Carol off near the Fest and came back home. Maybe Carol will tell us if there was anything Ozzy going on; from what we saw driving by, I doubt there was much. Just your normal Chicago-area summer Fest using Oz as an excuse this time. At least the profits benefit Oz Park. Digest of 8/4: John: Maybe "pun" isn't strictly accurate regarding names like "Langwidere", "Ruggedo", "Kuma Party", "Skamperoo", and the like, but if there's a better one I'm not aware of it. 8/5: Gili: Quoits is like horseshoes, except that a quoit is a full circle rather than a horseshoe. (The First Circlet in MERRY-GO-ROUND was lost when the king at the time was using it as a quoit and it went down a rabbit hole.) (If you're unfamiliar with the game of horseshoes, you throw them at a stake from a measured distance and get points for ringers, leaners, and closest throw if nobody gets a ringer or leaner that round - hence the aphorism "Close only counts in horseshoes.") Chris D.: People have generally been very enthusiastic about THE DISENCHANTED PRINCESS OF OZ, and I've also written a favorable review of CORY IN OZ that was published in a journal with a lot wider circulation than the Digest. And I've written negative reviews of books other people published, as well. I don't think "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything," should apply to book reviews. But you shouldn't interpret someone's judgment that a book you published wasn't great (and most of the comments I've seen on DINAMONSTER, by people who'd read it, have been that it was OK but not one of the best of the non-FF books published so far, and not consistent with the FF) as a personal insult. A lot of people really, really disliked WICKED and have said so (including, as I recall, yourself), but I doubt if the editor at HarperCollins who chose it for publication feels personally insulted, and if he does he shouldn't. Tastes vary; all a negative review means is that that reader didn't like that book. And I recently read Tyler's reviews of BEoO books, and while some of them were clearly negative, "hateful" and "spiteful" imply that you think they were motivated by personal malice on his part - and if that were the case, why would he recommend some of them in such strong terms? I don't think that colored text transmits across the Internet in E-mail. I could be wrong. Dave, I'm typing this in red. Does it come across that way? Dick and Earl: Thanks for the Munchkin reports. Wish I could have been there! Maybe next year... Bear: As Baum established in TIN WOODMAN and GLINDA, fairy magic is only one kind of magic and it can't undo some things done by other kinds of magic. Ozma couldn't get rid of the green monkey Mrs. Yoop created, for instance, or raise Skeezer City. Presumably Lurline's magic is fairy magic, and also can't undo the workings of some other types of magic. (I don't accept Robert Pattrick's opinion that the magic in Oz is all the effect of Lurline's enchantment.) Mombi's green magic may be another example. Lurline didn't create Oz, after all; she just put an enchantment on an existing country - one where, I believe, magic was already common, though not immortality. After all, magic is common in most of the countries surrounding Oz as well, and Lurline didn't enchant them. HUNGRY TIGER is another pretty good Thompson book; not as good as LOST KING, imho, but better than her earlier ones, and than her next three. It also gives both Betsy Bobbin and Ozma their only significant post-Baum adventures. (And yes, the Hungry Tiger is the one who craves fat babies.) John: I'll send you a copy of my Ozma essay today. The Digest in general doesn't seem that interested. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 11:42:48 -0400 From: Homer Dave- Thanks SO much for the FAQ, it cleared up some things for me. P.S.- Does anyone know the most recognized way to pronounce Gingemma? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 20:25:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Gili - If you want your logo on a T-shirt really fast, just hand draw one and take it to any T-shirt shop and they will print it on for you. Oh and Gili, quoits is like horse shoes with a disc with a hole that you try to throw to land on a stake. I haven't seen it played since I was a child. And finally - I read five or six books at a time. I think of this as the buffet approach to reading. Among others, I am reading GARGANTUA AND PANTAGRUEL right now. Can't imagine just reading that hour after hour until I finished. My wife thinks my buffet approach is fine as long as I don't extend it to certain other areas. :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 21:00:38 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 8-5-96 Chris D. - I must be receiving a different version of the Ozzy Digest because I haven't seen any reference to "DINAMONSTER" on the one I receive. Where are the "cheap shots" coming from? Or were you referring to reviews of the book on Tyler's web page, or in some other forum? Gili: - Quoits is played like horseshoes. They (the quoits) are round, like a donut or bagel, and you throw them at a stake. Scoring is pretty much the same as horseshoes, IIRC. Dick Randolph (dixnam@aol.com) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 18:49:31 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Just got my Oz Observer and Gazette in the mail today! Good articles all around, but I must say that I liked the Gazette much better. Congrats to Jane (and Eric as TikTok!) I loved the Digest influence. A great job, as always. As for the Observer, well, it just gives that much more incentive to make it to the South Winkies. I though I was going to make a trip to South Africa and Zimbabwe this year, but those plans fell through. I'm going to a place frought with more danger, intrigue, and possibility-- New York City! :) This change in vacation plans means that I have a better possiblity to get to Swinkies 96' Add my vote to the Ozzy Digest T-shirt! I think the cyber-woodman would be great, but I'm open to anything. How about something with our resident "robot"-- Tiktok? This also got me thinking-- What's out there in regards to an Ozzy tie for any executive types out there? (Can you tell I got a promotion at work and now must scramble around looking for ties?) I think a emerald green one with a large gold OZ (the overlapping O and Z) would be a great accessory, as would a menagerie of Neill's line drawings with the colors swirling around. This would also help in promoting non-MGM Oz in the workplace. (Peter Glassman, if you're listening, I also had in mind one with your Ozzy logo, with the Lion intertwined with OZ, the one on your mugs and things! Hint, Hint!) Thanks to the gaming info, just needed some ideas for what exactly the Wogglebug's college might actually *DO* for a story idea of mine. Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 22:08:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: OZzy DIgest Robin: As you asked, I'll change a couple of things in the story to make it a little less generic, and then send you the new version. Chris: If you want to see some good things said about your work, you can check my web page. While there are some negative reviews, many of them are positive. For example, _Disenchanted Princess_, _Flying Bus_ and _Haunted Castle_ have excellent reviews. I hope to have some reviews by more people soon. I'll second Dave's comment that an objective criticism of a BEOO book is not the same as a personal attack. After all, if I hated you and/or Buckethead, I would not mention your stuff on my page at all. The fact is that there are nearly 200 published Oz books, all written by many people, each with their own knowledge and vision of Oz. It stands to reason that there will be some good ones and some bad ones. While _The Baum Bugle_ does not print negative reviews, I allow them since not all people love all Oz books equally. Besides, I feel that if all the reviews on my page were the same ("I loved it, it was the greatest EVER!"), then it would serve no real purpose. If the reviews page has a mixture of good and bad reviews, then people would trust it to be more than just a phony sales pitch. It IS a sales pitch, of course, since I want people to buy Oz books, but it admits that not all Oz books are the greatest stories in the history of the world. I would hesitate to call a negative review hateful or spiteful. It can be, though, and I have seen some elsewhere. However, I believe that a well thought out objective criticism is not a bad thing. That is why I stand by my request to make all reviews objective, even the bad ones. Bear: The only thing I can think of is that Lurline had not tried to break the spell in a few years, and it weakened enough to the point where Snip could break it. Also, Mombi losing her powers about 20 years previously could have had some effect on the spell. I suppose Mombi could have been charged with conspiracy to overthrow the government, but Pastoria was the lawful king at one time. Mombi did not seek to hurt anybody, she just wanted to get back into the power circle. While not intending to give anything away, Bear, you'll be glad to know that there is finally a cruel MALE character in _Hungry Tiger_. John: In some non-FF books, fairies do seem to be able to have children sometimes. We have also theorized that there are some fairies in Ozma's mortal ancestral line. However, your point seems to be that if immortals had a lot of children, and they themselves never die, the Universe would get pretty crowded in a few thousand years. Of course, the same can be said of Oz, but people on the digest have theorized that Oz has a VERY low birthrate. I suppose that the immortals use family relationships to describe rank. For example, your "mother" is the leader of the band, your "sisters" are fairies of equal rank, "cousins" are in other bands, and so on. Censorship: What probably seems best is to realize that we are all big boys and girls, and a little criticism/insulting won't hurt us. If somebody attacks me or my theories, I'm sure I'll survive. I would like to remind people of two things, however, and I'm sure most people will back me up on this. 1. Children sometimes read these digests, so let's try to keep our stuff G-rated, or at least PG. This has never been a problem, and I hope it will never become one. This part has been said a million times, but it can never be said enough :-) 2. All of us on this digest are here for our love of the magical Land of Oz. I can't imagine Dorothy and Ozma saying harsh things to each other, even if they disagree. As we discuss, inform, debate, theorize, argue and disagree, let us all remember that the gentle loving spirit of Oz is what brought us together, and that it is precisely that spirit that we are seeking to spread through the internet and the entire world. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 22:38:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Chris, the most important criterion I use in judging a book is the text. As such, I doubt very much that your contributions affected my reviews of Buckethead books, and I am sorry if I contributed to such a misconception. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 06-Aug-96 02:52:34 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZZY BADGE: Well, that's another vote for the badge. Any others? I have an idea for the image -- a picture of a computer with the Yellow Brick Road weaving its way out from the monitor...Any suggestions for a caption? CHRIS: Chris E-mailed me today asking me to censor anyone today who responded to his post about book reviews. (It turns out he did not mean his message to be public) But I have decided to post them anyway, because now that it IS public, I think the issue needs to be aired, and I really DON'T want to censor anyone any further!!! (Sorry, Chris) WELCOME!: We have four new members on the Ozzy Digest today...Welcome to you all! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 7, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 07:03:12 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Munchkin Convention Observations II My previously announced plan of taking naps in the afternoon worked well. I was able to pay attention to all sessions both Friday and Saturday nights, and even to participate in the Saturday night party until midnight. I hear that that affair did not break up until 3:30 the next morning. How can they do that? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 15:12:20 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-06-96 Danny - there are Wizard of Oz ties out there, mostly with MGM images. In New-Orleans last year I saw at least six different designs of silk ties with swirly colors and tiny tinwoodmen, lions, scarecrows and/or Dorothys, and a friend of mine has a tie with a scene of the fab five (counting Toto) on their way to the emerald city. Not that I know exactly where you could get one, but you could try "THe Best of Kansas" or "The Heather and the Holly". I'll post you the addresses if and when I find them. Robin and Ken C. - I received "Oziana" in the mail today, I'm very excited! I like your illustrations, Ken! But I can tell already that I do miss the multiple story format... I like the variety. Oh well, I'll trust Robin's judgement and assume this must be an excellent story, till I have time to read it! Thanks to everyone for the information about quoits! I now remember i once looked it up in the dictionary. Where did the croquet image come from? Maybe because Neill drew the scarecrow leaning on his big sceptre - perhaps when I was little I misinterpreted that illustration and thought the sceptre was some kind of bat or mallet. Or maybe not! So, I think we have two votes for pins, and five for t-shirts? Pins or buttons should be easy to make anyway. I think we need more votes in support of t-shirts before it makes sense to print up a batch... hint hint... I haven't yet read a design idea that I didn't like, of the ones suggested here. But we have yet to find a volunteer to run this little project. Eric - come back! come back! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) gili@scso.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 09:35:09 -0400 From: Nathan Faut Subject: Re: Oz ties >From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) >Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff > [SNIP] >This also got me thinking-- What's out there in regards to an Ozzy >tie for any executive types out there? Danny, I have a tie lisenced from Turner Entertainment that shows Dorothy and the Scarecrow un-rusting the Tin Woodman. Obviously, Dorothy looks something like Judy Garland, but it is a tie nonetheless. In fact, I wear it to work relatively often. Fortunately, I work as a computer technician and ombudsman, so it's a fairly acceptable tie. I haven't seen any others in that line. I seem to recall buying it at a Burlington Coat Outlet for $10 or so. Give them a try. Anyone else seen ties? (Can you tell I got a promotion >at work and now must scramble around looking for ties?) I think a >emerald green one with a large gold OZ (the overlapping O and Z) would >be a great accessory, as would a menagerie of Neill's line drawings >with the colors swirling around. This would also help in promoting >non-MGM Oz in the workplace. (Peter Glassman, if you're listening, I >also had in mind one with your Ozzy logo, with the Lion intertwined >with OZ, the one on your mugs and things! Hint, Hint!) Hear, hear! Excellent ideas, all of them! I second the notions! Nathan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 10:57:56 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-06-96 Homer: Since "Gingemma" was a name invented by Volkov, it should have a Russian pronunciation. Accent isn't uniform in Russian any more than it is in English, so where the emphasis should go is debatable, but the "g"s should be hard, as in "Gingrich", not as in "gin", and to be really authentic the "e" should be palatalized (a slight "y" sound before it). I say "GIN-gyem-ah", but "gin-GYEM-ah" is equally justifiable. Bear: I generally read only two fiction books at a time - one for "normal" reading, and one at my bedside for reading the last 15-20 minutes before turning off the light. The latter is usually an Oz book (or Oz-related; right now it's QUEEN ZIXI OF IX), but is invariably something I've read so often that I don't have any question in my mind what's going to happen next. I may have another two or three non-fiction books going at the same time as well. But the original question was how many books off the shelf at a time, and there it's likely to be a dozen or so - including ones I've finished but haven't shelved yet, ones I've acquired but that haven't made it to my "to be read" shelf yet, and ones that Marcia has finished reading and that I want to read but haven't gotten to. (This is aggravated by the fact that most of the fiction is shelved either upstairs (hardcovers and non-Oz related children's books) or in the basement (paperback fiction other than children's books), and I do most of my reading on the ground floor. Danny: Wish I'd get my Gazette and Observer! Wonder if they didn't get my change of address onto the mailing labels? If it was sent to California then there's no telling when or if it will turn up here... The lion intertwined with OZ is from the title page of the original WIZARD; Books of Wonder has used it (and more power to them!), but it's a Denslow design and not just BoW. I agree that it would be neat to have on a tie or a T-shirt. (A tie would do me little good, since I virtually never wear one. "I'm retired; this is as dressed up as I get!") Tyler: I think part of the problem is that Chris -can't- check your Web page - it sounds as if the AOL software on the computer he's now using doesn't have the Web browser installed. (It can be downloaded from AOL free, except for any connect time charges, but I get the impression that Chris isn't comfortable doing that kind of thing.) The BUGLE doesn't print negative reviews? You could have fooled me - what about one of the reviews of WAS? And some others I've read, while not "This is a terrible book; avoid it at all costs!" had some negative comments. Or is the "no negative reviews" principle a newish one? (I guess we have to wait for Steve to get back to get a definitive answer on that. But it's my impression that he was planning to run a negative review of WICKED in the Autumn BUGLE, along with my fairly positive one.) Certainly I've read hateful and spiteful reviews. They seem a lot more common in the non-fiction world, though, and in mainstream fiction more than in the more "popular" subgenres. Reviews of that sort usually result from a book being reviewed by someone who's either a personal enemy of the author or has a radically different political view. And then there are some people, like John Simon, who just like to be nasty to show off their superior taste. As I said once before, Mombi certainly sought to hurt Snip, even though she was unsuccessful at it. And Thompson used plenty of cruel male characters from the beginning - there were the three princes of the Silver Islands in ROYAL BOOK, Glegg and Ruggedo in KABUMPO, Mustapha, most of the Uns, and Crunch in COWARDLY LION, and Abrog/Gorba in GRAMPA, confining the list to those books Bear has already read. The absence of a cruel male in LOST KING was unusual. (Some of the Blanks were male and not nice, but it's true that it was their queen who instituted the requirement to become invisible.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 11:21:24 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-96 > CRULLERS: > I think the mystery about what crullers are has been solved, as I came across > some in the store today. They look like glazed donuts but are flat and have > spiral grooves that give them a pinwheel-like appearance. (I didn't have the > opportunity to try one though...) I didn't know there WAS any mystery about crullers. Yes, that is a cruller. Dunkin' Donuts has always had crullers (at least where I've lived), and that particular one they call a "French Cruller". OTOH, as a kid, all the crullers I've seen were oblong, not toroidal (but still with that helical twist to them). I'm not sure how they are made, but tastewise they seem indistinguishable to donuts, to me at least. MUNCHKIN: Oh, was that _last_ weekend? *ulp* Oh, well, it would've turned out not so good for me, anyway. My uncle passed away on Sunday. Drove from Baltimore to Long Island for the funeral. (475 miles and $23.60 in tolls, round trip, for anyone whose interested). But on a positive note, my sister is coming to visit from Israel today (in about an hour from now), and she will get to see her nephews whom she's never met (last saw her at our wedding, 5 years, 2 days ago) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 12:38:26 -0400 From: Homer A badge is an okay idea, but it doesn't always work well with whatever you're wearing. A hat would be a thought, but the Oz hats that I've seen haven't been what I would call a terrific fashion statement. I do like the idea of the yellow brick road coming out of the computer. The YBR is one of the few aspects of the story that had no mutation when made into the MGM movie. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 11:27:05 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Ozzy Badge-- The only reason I don't like buttons or badges is because I don't like putting holes in my shirt if I can help it. Well, and that, amd some faceless manager (I have never met him, but he seems out of touch) always liked every attendant in the company to wear buttons-- almost a new one every three weeks to a month as a standard part of the uniform. (shudder) Dave, my idea for a caption would be "Follow the Yellow Bit Map" (if that's to non-email-ish, how about "the Network People of Oz" "the On-line Road to Oz" Maybe some variation of an e-mail address? OzTalk@OzzyDigest.oz or something like that? Wow! Already got some info on Ozzy ties! Thanks Nick (I think that's who it was) I'll look (and keep looking) I think there might be a place at Universal Citywalk I might try as well. Random thought for today: If Oz was more tropical, we'd all be saying "Aloh-oz" Danny ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 14:58:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Idea for the Wogglebug: You could write a story about the "Ozlympics", wherein once every four years, the students split into five teams (of obvious origin) and compete in various athletic events. In this case, for first place we would give out emerald medals instead of gold. David: Bear's point was "How could Snip do this when Lurline could not?" After all, Lurline may not be able to break EVERY enchantment, but little Snip, with no power at all, could hardly succeed where the mighty Lurline failed. I had some ideas yesterday that may explain it. Homer: I have always pronounced it "jin-JEMM-a", as in "whiskey and gin", "That girl is a gem" and "uh". Some others prounce "Gin" to rhyme with "kin" or even "Ging" to rhyme with "Sing". Bear: I once had a practice of reading several books at one time, but other activities got in the way and ended up confusing me. Therefore, as Major Charles Emerson Winchester III once said "I do one thing at a time. I do it very well, then I move on". David: I am fairly sure that colored text does not get sent over the 'Net. Once you send something as a text file, all the special formatting is lost. The only way you can is to send a non-text file written with a word processor in binary form and hope the guy on the other end can read it. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 17:32:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-06-96 From: Barbara DeJohn Hi Digest I have been away for several days so to catch up- I would be interested in a digest t-shirt or button or both. The tinwoodman logo doesn't come across very well on my computer I wasn't sure what it was for a long time but was embarrassed to ask. I finally got the Observer and Gazette I think I'm always the last to get them. I wish that the group photo's said who the people are especially the picture on page 7. Anyone know? Does anyone know when the 96 Oziana comes out? I am pretty sure that I ordered it but if it came out a while ago maybe I forgot. David Hulan-? I am interested in seeing the essay about Ozma. It was you right? Barbara DeJohn 10333.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 17:57:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Eastern Witch of Oz 1) Homer, Gingemma is pronouced with both gs hard. 2) I'm now starting to wonder: how did the practice of magic start on Lurline's World? If we assume that the original inhabitants migrated from Earth, did they modify an existing magical system or discover magic from scratch? Though the use of Terran magical principles--imitation (like affects like), contagion (things retain connections to what they have been in contact with), banishment (certain things work against each other), and name-dropping--is not easily apparent in any Oz book I've read--except for some material I wrote last night--traces of them seem to remain. For example: * The effects of eggs on nomes. Although Roquat/Ruggedo claims that eggs are poison to nomes because they belong to the surface world, please note that nothing else from the surface is known to be poisonous to nomes. Ruggedo even lived for years above-ground without ill effects other than homesickness. As banishing objects generally have no obvious connection to the banishee, this might be a case of genuince banishment, though the nomian aversion to eggs might be purely biochemical. * Polychrome in _The Tin Woodman of Oz_ specifically invokes her fellow fairies in order to repair the Tin Woodman and the Tin Soldier. ***WARNING: SPOILER FOR _MASQUERADE IN OZ_ AND _QUEEN ANN IN OZ_*** * Both books make use of a literary-based imitative magic. In _Queen Ann in Oz_, an amnesiac spell is temporarily counteracted with forget-me-nots. The spell itself is broken through reinacting an historical event in which what they want to happen happened. (I can't give EVERYTHING away...) Pun-based imitative magic is also used in the resolution of _Masquerade in Oz_. ***END SPOILER*** Though if Ozite magic evolved from some preexisting system, what were the= initial results? Enchanter: Hey! What are you doing here? This whole thing is supposed to be a scam. Daemon: Well, you DID call for a daemon. Would you care to discuss payment terms? Enchanter: I am NOT going to sell my soul to the Devil! Daemon: I'm not sure what the Daemonical Magic Corporation, Inc., would do with a soul. Let's talk about those crystals you've got in your pocket.= .. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 19:30:49 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi again! Again, I'm getting in what I can in intervals between looking after two dogs and eight puppies (who are now big enough to climb out of their box). So I apologize again for those I haven't gotten to. I do approve of Dave's not censoring anything on the Ozzy Digest, since I can't imagine any reason for doing so unless one of us posts something truly libelous or obscene, which I very much doubt any of us will do. I think I got the "languid" part of Langwidere's name, if not the first time, then very early on (my father loved to listen to Gilbert & Sullivan operettas, like PATIENCE with it's 20 languid maidens--so I'm not surprised David, another G&S fan (whose Apanage zine was called "Penny-Ice and Cold Meat," from the Chancellor's nightmare) would've got that. The "languid air" part I don't think I realized until someone referred to the name as "one of Baum's better puns." At one point that Baum Bugle had a column analyzing Ozzy names, and some had to be given up (e.g., was Jellia Jamb's name taken from "jelly OR jam," or just the two condiments without anyone sticking his "OR" in? And was the Ork taken from the real featherless bird called the auk, or from the same mythos that led to the Orcs in Tolkien's books?) More than the quoits in LAND, the ones I remember best were the ones in RINKITINK (one of my favorites as a boy, and still a favorite today). Inga and Rinkitink played the game while in the Nome King's caverns. The only other time I remember seeing them mentioned was, of all places, in the Cub Scouts' Lion Handbook, where one of the Achievements included making a set of rope quoits. (I don't know how many American boys actually got that far, though...I was a Cub Scout, but never got beyond Bear). But I've always been fascinated by the games found in old stories, and how they compare with today's games. In RIP VAN WINKLE, Washington Irving has Henry Hudson and his men playing "ninepins," which was like bowling with one fewer pin. (I've heard a story, though I can't vouch for the accuracy of it, that ninepins was the original version of the game, and the tenth pin was added in a deliberate attempt to get around laws against playing ninepins!) And, getting back to Baum, FATHER GOOSE has a rhyme about One Old Cat, an early version of baseball still played then...even though Abner Doubleday had already invented the game we know by then, and the early leagues existed. An excellent point about the evil people in LOST KING all being female, and the uncharacteristic bloodthirstiness of Ozma and Dorothy(!) in executing Mombi without a trial has already been discussed here. (Others here pointed out the Nomes that Dorothy had changed into eggs in OZMA, but I always thought she or Ozma had changed them back when they were out of danger. In any case, those Nomes were an immediate threat to Dorothy and her friends, but Mombi, at the point in the book, wasn't.) Baum was unusually egalitarian when it came to his villains: some of his books had mostly or all female villains (WIZARD, LAND), some mostly or all male (OZMA, LOST PRINCESS), and some combinations of the two (RINKITINK, TIN WOODMAN, GLINDA). LOST KING is relatively unusual in being the only Thompson book I can think of without any male villains at all. Take care, Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 21:44:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS DAVID - I haven't asked for a copy of your essay as I thought it was to be a special edition of the Digest, like the previous effort on the Castle. If not, would you please send me one. TNX Forgive me if I remain unconvinced that Mombi is in Lurline's league. :) I would also be interested in other's views of the treatment of Mombi in LK. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 07-Aug-96 00:24:24 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things M*A*S*H IN OZ: Ah! Tyler quoted Charles Emerson Winchester III! :) I once had an idea for an Oz story involving a character named Princess Anoria (after Charles' sister), but nothing came of it... THE ORK IS BACK! :) : I thought "Ork" came from chopping the first two letters off of "Stork"... MOMBI AND _LOST KING_: I add my support to those who have raised objections the draconic behavior of Dorothy and Ozma in _Lost King_...It adds to my suspicions that RPT's informant had a very skewed and distorted viewpoint, because I just can't believe it happened this way...OH NO!!! Kabumpo: *I'M* RPT's informant, you little squirt! :) As far Mombi's powers, my "Magic Scale" (see section 4.7 of my FAQ) puts her on a very low rung...I haven't plotted Lurline, but I would think she is much higher (around 6 or so). I explain in _Locasta_ why Mombi APPEARED to have performed such vast magical feats, but I can't say so here without meeting the bottom of Kabumpo's foot again... INFORMANTS: Seriously, does anyone have any idea who RPT's (or other author's) informant(s) were/are? Here are my ideas for the informants of some authors: (These are my MOPPeT conjectures) -- Baum: Dorothy Thompson: Kabumpo Neill: Jenny Jump Snow: The Shaggy Man The McGraws: Merry-Go-Round (These are "confirmed") -- Cosgrove-Payes: The "little bird" Melody: Zim The Adelmans: The Woozy Yours Truly: The Adepts -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 8, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 22:17:33 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: Looking for a few good insults Here is an all-purpose insult for use exclusively on the Ozzy Digest: "You're a Silly Ozbul." It is not for the faint of heart; abbreviation may soften its blow, i.e. ...IMHO, Chris, YASO... or ...MOPPET, Tyler, is that YASO. As far as I can tell, calling somebody a Silly Ozbul in this context falls under the protection of "fair usage" and does not intentionally violate any copyright, trademark or patent. You have my permission, Dave, to include it in the Ozzy Digest FAQ. If you don't, I'll pout, and not post anything for days and days. Ken Cope ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 07:09:02 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Munchkin Convention Observation III Saturday evening, Ozma Baum Mantele presented a slide talk entitled, "My Quest for L. Frank Baum." In it Mrs. Mantele showed pictures of the Baum family and places where they lived. In the question and answer period at the end of the talk, I asked her if her distinctive name had caused her difficulty. I expected some comment about being hazed as a child by the other children. (Children can be so casually cruel at times.) The response this gentle lady gave was considerable different than that. She said that because of her name, she did not know who she was for most of her life. She had called herself "Scraps" to get away from that name. People would chase after her and she wouldn't know if they were interested in her as a person or what they wanted. Only in the last few years had she found herself. I repressed the urge to ask her if she liked who she found. (Grownup children can be so casually cruel at times.) I found her response disturbing. The name connecting her to the first Royal Historian had caused her many years of confusion and unhappiness. People ignored her as a real person while seeking to some how come closer to the grandfather she scarcely remembered. And wasn't that exactly what the Club and I were doing right then? ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 15:09:44 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-07-96 Could "Ork" be related to Arabian Nights' "Roc"? David - I'm interested in your Ozma essay too. Barb DeJohn - I'll do my best to help you with names in the Oz Observer - the convention was the first time I met any of the people in the photographs so I might get some mixed up! pg. 7, middle photograph (judging partially by costume!) from left to right, top row: Brittany Rizzo as Carter Green, Margaret Pellegrini, Sean Latour, Katie Fleming, Marylin Tracy, (the person peeping over her shoulder may possibly be Virginia Fowler), Karyl Carlson, Kirk Stines?, and Robin Helfrich. In the bottom row, left to right are my friend Netta Yedid and myself. In the bottom picture, left to right, back row: our own Jim VanderNoot and Robin Olderman, and Katie Fleming; Front row are Laura and Eric Gjovaag (Eric, come back!), someone whose name I'm embarassed to admit I don't remember though I had a very nice conversation with him, and Lee Speth. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) gili@scso.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 13:53:11 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-07-96 On T-shirts/buttons: Oh, well, since Gili is taking count: Yes to either or both. I work at home, I can wear what I please. Hmmm....logos/slogans: Your logo idea is terrific. I'm having trouble thinking of an appropriate caption, though. "There's no place like the Ozzy Digest" would probably give "laymen" the wrong impression that this was MGM-oriented. How about, "The WWW is dead! World-Wide Web? No, Wicked Witch of the West" With all due respect, I definitely do not think the "fake e-mail address" suggested by Danny is a good idea. People might think it the actual address. Your other ideas were good, though, Danny. Barbara: probably the reason the logo does not turn out so good on your computer is that you are using a non-mono-spaced font on your computer. If you use either Monaco (on MacIntoshes) or Courier on PCs to view your e-mail, you should have much better results. Dave Hardenbrook: > > M*A*S*H IN OZ: > Ah! Tyler quoted Charles Emerson Winchester III! :) I once had an > idea for an Oz story involving a character named Princess Anoria (after > Charles' sister), but nothing came of it... > I _believe_ his sister's name is "Honoria". Did you know that, and just punnning? --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 10:56:16 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuf The Ork-- Dave mentioned my theory of the Ork's name origin-- a modified "stork." Just thought that I would bring up that the Ork really blew me away when I first read SKY ISLAND! I usually can take weird characters as they came along, but when I turned the page and saw Neill's drawing after Baum's end-of-the- chapter set up, I literally did a double take. It's moments like those that make me love Oz! Informants-- Good MOPPeTs for the informant theory, Dave. But I would think that we could add Dorothy as a "confirmed" informant for Baum, right? I originally had to justify the WOgglebug as the informant for Niell-- thus the propensity to ezaggerate and have literal puns. Making Jenny Jump his, though, would make sense in that Jenny and No. 9 are such important figures in the books. (or would that be violating the fact that all her "Ambition" was lobotomized from her? ) I also think that maybe some books would be on a case-by-case basis, if we could find any exceptions to the "rules" BTW, my informant is a clipped rosebud from Glinda's garden. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 20:21:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest David: My source for the statement "The BUGLE never prints negative reviews" comes from the late Marcus Mebes. Apparantly, he once wanted to write a negative review of some Oz book (I forgot which one) and the staff "encouraged" him to write a positive one instead. He didn't like it very much, but he did it. David again: If I forgot to ask you, could you send me your Ozma essay? Aaron: It seems that there is some sort of source of magical power that fairies, etc. all tap into in different ways. I am not sure what this source is, but I currently believe that immortals grew into the use of this power naturally, such as the fairies, and mortals, such as witches, either stumbled across it naturally or spied on immortals and "borrowed" the knowledge from them. Dave: Your current MOPPeT of informants sounds pretty close, but we need to explain how Baum got the story for _Land_, and how RPT got the story for _Royal Book_. Perhaps they had temporary informants, or something. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 22:53:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS David - If I remember your mother's experience correctly, GET THOSE BOOKS OUT OF THE BASEMENT BY SPRING! :) My sympathy to you and all the rest of the AOL folks. I hope you get to read the Digest some day. They claim your mail will be waiting "when they get it fixed." Further David, I can think of no two books in the Oz world more deserving of negative reviews than "Was" first and foremost and "Wicked" secondarily. :( And finally, you are making my point. Somehow it fit the stereotype to have a bunch of mean males in the first three RPT books I read but suddenly comes a book, LK, where the females are the baddies or at least do "bad" things. Maybe I am forgetting my Baum. Briefly, I have this "impression" that his books were filled with interesting adventures but were light on real evil and cruelty. Well, I'll just have to read them over after I finish with RPT. Michael - What's a toll??? Is it like a troll? :) :) Tyler - That made me think of a Lewis Carol quote. I think it was the Red Queen who said, "Start at the beginning, go on until you reach the end and then stop." I am a little surprised you are so linear. I'm sure if you apply yourself you will learn to use your parallel processor. :) Rich - Tolkein's orcs came along long after Baum's Ork. Actually the name orc or orca applies to the grampus or whales. I'm not sure how Tolkein selected it. You might have thought he would have used Ork, extracted from the Orkney Islands - that group north of Scotland. Anyway, names are great fun. And Wow! do you have a great memory if you remember your Lion Book from scouts. And now that you mention it, I remember the big kids playing something I thought was called "One-A-Cat" when I was really small. Other informants, hmmmm! P. J. Farmer - Glinda Geoff Ryman - Hannibal Lector Gregory Maguire - WWW Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 9, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 07:11:11 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Munchkin Convention Observation IV There was an unusual entry in the art category on the Research Table at the convention. It was a long (8 foot?) scroll that showed a parade of Oz notables -- Wizard, Tinman, Wogglebug, Tic Toc, Scarecrow, Dorothy? & Ozma?, Cowardly Lion & Hungry Tiger -- interspersed between marching units. The work was superb and clearly of professional level. Naturally, it won the prize for the best art contribution, but the award was made in absentia and without commentary. The scroll was labeled "Hatsuo Nakai 3-30-96" but no further information was given. Later, I asked co-chair John Kennedy about the scroll and his answer was noncommittal. Does anyone have anything to share about this artwork, the artist, or how it came to be at the Munchkin Convention? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 16:08:53 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-96 Ken C. - IMHO, YASO yourself. :-) |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) gili@scso.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 10:55:49 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-07-96 >Earl C. Abbe wrote: >My previously announced plan of taking naps in the afternoon worked well. > I was able to pay attention to all sessions both Friday and Saturday >nights, and even to participate in the Saturday night party until >midnight. I hear that that affair did not break up until 3:30 the next >morning. How can they do that? I hear that a few cups of coffee helps! ;) Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 11:03:15 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-96 Earl Abbe: I forgot to tell you how glad I was that you asked Ozma about her name. It was a wonderful question, although (I agree with you) a disturbing answer followed. I was saddened to hear that something that was surely intended as an act of adoration by L. F. Baum had just a negative effect on her (for so long!). I was also amused by her choice of Scraps as a nickname. Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 11:06:44 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-96 Hi everyone, My cat has no name. This does not bother me, and it does not seem to bother my cat. It bothers my friends and students. Could you please suggest a name? Eureka and Bungle are not options (we both dislike those names). Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 08:58:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-96 > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-07-96 > > In the bottom picture, left to right, back row: our own Jim VanderNoot > and Robin Olderman, and Katie Fleming; Front row are Laura and Eric > Gjovaag (Eric, come back!), someone whose name I'm embarassed to admit I > don't remember though I had a very nice conversation with him, and Lee Speth. I'll be back before too long, but I just want to say now that that unidentified person next to me is "Christmas in Oz" author Robin Hess. (And hang on to that picture of Laura, she's camera shy and rarely pops up in Oz pictures.) --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 12:31:08 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: information that is possibly usable I usually ignore anything concerning collectibles, so this info may have already been said a million times. If so, it probably isn't worth repeating. If no one else has mentioned it yet, the newest Lillian Vernon Catalogue has a Dorothy costume that can be ordered for $39.98. The catalogue is a Halloween issue, so it also has a number of semi-Ozzy generic Scarecrows, Jack Pumpkinheads, and various Wicked Witches. These can all be yours if you call toll-free 1-800-285-5555. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 11:14:28 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: greetings to Oz digest from Ruth Berman I sent some comments yesterday for the OD about Worth Gardner's "Wizard of Oz." Evidently they didn't arrive in time for inclusion in today's digest, but it's just as well, as I wanted to add that actor who played Baum was William Brown. Earl C. Abbe - interesting comments on Ozma Baum Mantele's talk. Gili Bar-Hillel, Danny, Dave Hardenbrook, and Richard Bauman - Actually, Tolkien's term "orc,"although Tolkien was writing later than Baum, goes back to a much earlier usage. (I wrote an article on the topic a good many years back for Mythlore, the journal of the Mythopoeic Society. If anyone is interested in a photocopy, I think about 75 cents would cover copy/postage. My address is 5620 Edgewater Blvd, Minneapolis MN 55416, USA.) Tolkien was following the use of "orc" in Old English, specifically in the poem "Beowulf," where it occurs in a list of humanoid monsters. The Old English term probably comes from the Latin orca, which probably meant originally any kind of monster (and led to the term "ogre"), but came to mean specifically sea-monters, and from there to the kind of whale called an orca. I'm inclined to think that Baum ran across "orcs" in Milton's poem "Paradise Lost," where there is a reference in a description to "orcs and sea-mews," and I think that combination may have led Baum to think of orcs as birds. Of course, he might instead or in addition have been thinking of storks, as some of you suggested. John R. Neill's illustrations look as if he, at least, had something storkish in mind. Robin Olderman (assuming the robino on the list of addressees is you) - I received the Oziana 1996 a couple of days ago, and enjoyed it very much. Good artwork (and how nice to see something more of Dick Martin's), and Ruth Waara's "Umbrella Island in Oz" is an enjoyable sequel to Speedy, and strong enough to justify giving over the full issue to it. But one criticism -- what happened to the chunk of story (looks as if it must be either a full column or a full page missing) between pp. 23 & 24! Are you going to send out the missing bit sometime soon to the people who have bought the issue? Maybe the missing bit could also be posted on the OD? Since I've put my address in here anyway (see comments on orks above), I'll add that over the past few years I've been publishing some Oz-related pamphlets -- maybe some of you would be interested in getting them. One was a publication of James E. Haff's "Who's Who in Oz, An Appendix," to which I added descriptions, notes, a gazeteer, and material based on the not-quite-canonical Oz works ("Little Wizard Stories," etc.); it is $5.00/ copy. (But if you have Peter Clarke's "Who's Who," that's probably enough, except that he didn't include the not-quite-cans.) The others have been an annual series of "Dunkiton Press" pamphlets, reprinting rare works by Oz authors and artists, plus some essays; the Dunkiton pamphlets are $1.50 or $4/3. The ones so far are #1 on RPT (4 of her Perhappsy poems & an essay on her Ledger writing), #2 on gnomes (essays on gnomes and Disney's "Return"), #3 on mermaids (stories by RPT and Wallace McDougall), #4 on Robin Hood (half of a story illoed by Neill plus one RH story by RPT). #5 will be more RH (other half of story Neill illoed plus other RPT story) at the end of this year, and topics I'm considering for future Dunkitons include Halloween, Thanksgiving, candylands, wizardry, wishes. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 13:10:18 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests, 08-07 & 08-96 As you may know, AOL was down all day yesterday. (It made the front page of the Trib, so even those of you on other services may be aware of it. Hence the double dose this time. 8/7: And for the first time in quite a while, this Digest was long enough that I had to download it instead of just saving in in a Flashsession. Earl: Sounds as if you have my kind of sleep pattern. I don't usually have a hard time staying awake during the program, but by the end of it I'm usually too wiped to stick around for the parties. Afternoon naps might be an idea. Me: Further elaboration on the pronunciation of "Gingemma" - Russian doesn't have the sound that you usually get from "ng" in English (or Spanish or German); the "n" and "g" would have separate sounds. Mike: I'm pretty sure crullers are made by rolling out two snake-like rolls of dough and then twisting them together before deep-fat frying them. Though I'll admit I've never made them or watched them being made. Tyler: Uh - you don't pronounce "gin" to rhyme with "kin"? I didn't think colored text transmitted over the Internet (other than as a binary file that can only be read by the creating application or a compatible one), but I thought I'd experiment just to be sure. Barbara: No, you're not the last to get the Gazette and Observer. I haven't gotten mine yet. (Though as I said in my last post, I suspect it's due to my move and delay in getting the mailing labels corrected, even though I sent in an Illinois address back in April.) Apparently the 1996 Oziana is out, since Gili got hers. I think I ordered one as well, but haven't seen it yet. Aaron: MOPPeT is that when humans first came to Lurline's world from ours, they had to work out a system of magic appropriate to that world. While Glinda and the Wizard seem to practice a form of what we might call "scientific magic", other magic workers like fairies and yookoohoos seem to work entirely by natural talent. And the scientific magicians (which would also include, for instance, Ugu, Coo-ee-oh, the Su-dic, the Lonesome Duck, Ozwoz, and various others) don't seem to use the magical principles you mention to any significant extent. (Of course, I've never seen any evidence that those principles work in this world, either, outside of fiction.) Rich: I don't remember the 20 lovesick maidens in PATIENCE being particularly languid, but there's the line in Bunthorne's song about "a sentimental passion of a vegetable fashion/ Will excite your languid spleen." And there's a song in one of the Fifties film musical - I think it was THERE'S NO BUSINESS LIKE SHOW BUSINESS; anyhow, the one with Dan Dailey, Ethel Merman, Donald O'Connor, and Marilyn Monroe - where Monroe sings a song about being "languid". I've often wondered how the pins were set up in ninepins. Maybe in a 1-2-3-2-1 lozenge shape? There are probably a lot of variations in the name of that progenitor of baseball; it was called "One-eyed-cat" when I used to play it as a kid. It was probably derived from cricket, but instead of the bowler bowling from near the opposite wicket from the batsman, the pitcher had his spot and the "base" was off at an angle. The object was to hit the ball and run to the base and back before they could get the ball back in. (The base wasn't a base in the sense that the batter was safe when he was on it; it was just a mark he had to touch before going home.) This obviously worked better when there weren't too many players on either side - usually just two or three. Bear: Copies of the Ozma essay will be sent to all who requested it at the same time I send this to Dave. I expect he felt that it wasn't likely to be of enough interest to the Digest as a whole to justify a Special Edition. Mombi certainly isn't in Lurline's league, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible for Mombi to do an enchantment that Lurline can't break. Coo-ee-oh wasn't in Glinda's league, either, but Glinda couldn't break her enchantments until she got access to Coo-ee-oh's equipment. And there was a lot of discussion of the treatment of Mombi at the end of LK in the Digest back two or three months ago. Probably everyone feels they had their say then and don't feel like repeating it. (The most popular theory was that since we never actually saw Mombi dissolved, it didn't really happen; Ozma winked at Sir Hokus and the Scarecrow and they took her offstage, removed her shoes, and told her to get out and get lost or next time she might _really_ get dissolved.) Dave: To add another to your "confirmed" list of informants, mine is Barry Klein. As to your conjectures, Kabumpo might have been Thompson's informant for many of her books, but since he normally lives in a rather reclusive kingdom far from the center of things, I doubt he was her only one. (And, frankly, given the rather unpleasant nature of his personality at times, I rather doubt that he's even her main informant.) I suspect that she had several informants; if only one, though, it really needs to be someone in the EC, I think. My best guess would be Button-Bright, who as far as I recall doesn't ever appear in one of her books, but whose perspective seems about right. This would explain some of the inconsistencies, too, since he's not likely to be a terribly accurate reporter. I agree that Dorothy was almost certainly Baum's sole informant; the difficulty with LAND is easily met by assuming that she returned to Oz for the first time before LAND was written, even though that story (OZMA) wasn't written until a couple of years later. For Neill, I think Number Nine is a better guess than Jenny Jump - again, based primarily on the theory that informants aren't likely to transmit as much negative information about themselves as Neill's informant does about Jenny. Shaggy for Snow and Merry for the McGraws make sense, though Robin or even Fess for the latter would be equally plausible. 8/8: Ken C.: I don't think we really have need for an all-purpose insult on the Digest. Some people are already so sensitive that they see insults where none is intended; why do it deliberately? Earl: Interesting. Ozma Baum Mantele gave that same talk at Ozmopolitan, and someone there asked her the same question. And got the same answer. Mike: The logo doesn't come out too badly in Geneva on the Mac (which is what I normally use to read my AOL E-mail), but when it's a long Digest so I have to open it with Word, and I see it in Times, it loses its impact entirely. It's best in a monospaced font, though. Danny: Errr - the Ork is in SCARECROW OF OZ, not SKY ISLAND. Tyler: The BUGLE staff may prefer positive reviews, but I don't think it's a firm policy. As I said, when Steve gets back we should be able to get a definitive answer, because he's the review editor now. Bear: Since we got no water in our basement when we had a 500-year flood here last month, I'm not too worried about the books. But the possibility is why the only things we have there on low shelves are paperbacks, most of which could be replaced easily if necessary. (Well, there are also some computer books, but again, those go out of date so fast that losing them would be no big deal - in fact, replacing them would probably be a good thing.) I don't think Baum is notably more free from evil and cruelty than Thompson. From Mombi and Roquat through King Krewl and Blinkie to Coo-ee-oh and the Su-dic, he had some pretty nasty characters. Most of his books feature at least one, though PATCHWORK GIRL doesn't have any really evil characters unless you count Yoop, who's very minor. He doesn't have anyone as scary as Mooj, but you haven't met him yet. While Tolkien wasn't published until long after Baum, I believe he got the name "orc" from mythology somewhere. I remember reading something about it years ago, but don't remember where or any of the details. I have a feeling it might have been Ruth Berman who wrote it, though, and since I know she's now reading the Digest, maybe she'll comment. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 13:08:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Silly Ozbuls of Oz 1) Scraps: Ken, I think your new method of insulting is brilliant! Kabumpo: YASO for saying such a thing, Scraps! 2) David, please send me a copy of your Ozma essay. 3) Tyler, perhaps the information behind _The Marvelous Land of Oz_ was leaked to Dorothy by the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman. Then Dorothy told Baum. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 14:02:23 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: not sure what this is about... DH: Yes, I have re-downloaded the new, improved web browser (at least twice now), and followed all of AOL's directions, but that doesn't help. I think this computer is just messed up. In addition to my being unable to access the www (I am getting a lot of feedback from the WWW, however), the printer has decided to stop working (halfway through printing out a book, too!), and the doggoned mouse is still totally worthless (Eric G. once gave me detailed info on how to clean the mouse so it would work, but I think its problems go beyond what he assumed). I really think we got stuck with a lemon, here. Oh, well. The OLD one did everything it was supposed to do, and did it all very well, but it was NOT capable of getting e-mail. Now I just have to figure out how to get a new computer to do all that the old one was able to do... That is hard to do without money. KEN: Okay, I don't think I have ever met anyone who really really loved Roger Baum's picture books, but I must question your use of the term SillyOzbul as an insult. The SillyOzbuls are GOOD, and one would not feel insulted at being compared to one of them. Granted, the books may be a little disappointing, but the historical figures in it are still very real and are not nasty or evil. Perhaps a better insult would be Gnasty Gnome... IAE, I am told that Roger Baum himself was so obnoxious that he was asked to leave the MGM grand hotel where he had once been licensed to peddle his books. That was a big deal. Now I want to know: Where do I go to get a copy of *The Lion of Oz*? It is a *Muppet Babies* type adventure about Cowy's cubhood. I'd have gotten a copy from Las Vegas had it been available there, but... Well... NOW where is RB selling his stuff? If anyone can get me a copy of *Lion*, I'll be happy to pay for his trouble. DAVE H: You informant listing is good as far as it goes. But I can tell you from experience that I use a different informant for nearly every book. It depends who is feeling talkative at the moment. I ahve had a lot of books from Toto, a well as some that came from the Wizard and Tik-Tok. By far and large, though, I think Queen Ozma herself is responsible for most of the messages I have received obver the years. Lately, Brewster Bunny is turning out to be a real loudmouth. But I've been ignoring him lately. I did promise to do more of his stories, and I will. But right now Rinny and I have a lot of other projects that are more pressing. For example, we are just finishing a long series of huge tomes about Goblin Grotto, and are about to embark on a series about some Ozian pachyderms (Kabumpo will make an appearance, but I doubt that Kabina will. I COULD try to get 'hold of BoW and try to get permission, but I doubt that it would be offered without Royalties). Maybe Brewster could solve a mystery involving Kabumpo's missing sister... Hmmm. On that subject, someone keeps mentioning Oz books as fiction. Her Majesty is not very happy about that, and would like to see it stopped. She says that she is NOT fiction, and that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy are all willing to testify to this in court. NON_OZ STUFF: Aol was down all day yesterday, so I had two days worth of junk mail to delete today. As for buttons and tee-shirts, I'd love to have 'em. You can put me down as someone who WANTS them, but with the understanding that it might take me ten or twenty years to accumulate the $ to buy them. Actually, it would depend on how many/how few are made and how that affects the co$t. If you are making a couple hundred, it will be a LOT cheaper per piece than if you are making only a few. The more you make, the more likely I am to get one. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 14:24:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Earl: While I am sure that Ozma Mantele wants to be known as her own person (I have never had the pleasure of meeting her), the fact that she appears at conventions indicates that she is not totally averse to the LFB connection. Ozzy Digest Logo: I am in favor of the Yellow Brick Road coming out of (or going into?) the computer screen. This image favors MGM and bookies equally, and the digest is supposed to represent ALL of Oz. M*A*S*H: Her name is Honoria, but it is pronounced Anoria. There was a joke in an episode where the infamous Colonel Flagg mispronounced the name. Of course, someday Colonel Flagg will get to Oz where he will uncover a conspiracy to (STOMP) Bear: Hopefully, I am not that linear. I am involved with a number of different things right now, and there is only room for one book at a time. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 14:32:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-96 From: Barbara DeJohn Hi Digesters!! (not to be confused with di-jesters) Mike- thank-you for suggesting the change of fonts, It made quite a difference. I now can see the Tinwoodman and Gili's cat much better. Gili- I appreciate the names on the photo it is nice to have a picture in my mind of who I'm writing to. Is anyone else going through Olympics withdrawl? I now will have the chance to read "The Winged Monkey's in Oz." Tyler, Do you want a reveiw of that? Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 12:58:34 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Oz-Spotting and never Stopping-- For those of us who frequent comic book stores, take a peek at the cover to PINKY AND THE BRAIN no. 6. (For those who don't, and are not familiar with the very funny Pinky and the Brain cartoon show, you'll probably be pretty lost on this one) The cover of the comic is a wierd MGM-like Oz, with the Emerald City in the background with the yellow brick road coming out of it. The mice are dressed up like Dorothy and the Scarecrow, the pun being that the one called "Brain" is dressed like the Scarecrow. (He is saying that it is appropriate that Pinky is the one from Kansas-- is this implying that Kansasians are all stupid? Hmmm.) Some inconsistencies-- Pinky and the Brain are walking AWAY from the EC, the Wicked Witch's stockinged feet are sticking out from underneath a large BOULDER, and there is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow in the scene. Oh, and the comic story itself is not about Oz at all. IF it were, would we see: Pinky: So Brain, what do you want to do tonight? Brain: Same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over Oz! Ruggedo: Oh no you don't! That's my job! Kabumpo: We'll see about that <> Brain: (in the shape of a pancake) If I only had some aspirin. . . Bear-- I could be wrong, but I think your Wonderland quote was said by the Red King. On a Wonderland note, try as I might, I can't find any ALICE web-related sites on the Net. So, I am making a Wonderland themed site myself. (No server yet, so it may be awhile before you can see it) Any ideas for what you want to see? I have a home page (Down the Rabbit hole) and pages for a selected who's who, a FAQ, a links page to other kids fantasy (You can bet Oz links will be there!) and Wonderland science-- discussing ideas of time, dreams, and games in Carroll's work. Wish me luck! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 16:14:29 -0400 From: Homer Alright, here's a question: When Dorothy, Zeke, and the buggy were falling down into Mangaboo country, they noticed that Eureka was pink and they blamed it on the odd colored light from the moons. When did she permanently become pink? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 16:35:34 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Barry--Return to Oz I finally got my e-mail back on line. Just like to make a few comments: I have no idea where Baum came up with the term "orc." I believe that Tolkien borrowed the word from mythology/legend. In one book I've been reading it mentions in Spain a kind of creature called an orco which sounds similar. (I know, ork, nor orc. It's a typo.) Dave, I don't think Jenny Jump is Neill's informant. She would have written a more positive review of herself. I favor Blogo the Rare Beast. Rich, I don't think Glinda could have been the informant for Farmer except as part of a deliberate misinformation campaign. I don't want to sound stupid, but who is Geoff Ryman? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 20:00:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Ken - You might want to explain what an "Ozbul" is for those of us who haven't read the book, don't want to read the book and/or will never read the book. By the way, Tyler may be an Ozbul (whatever that is) but I have never known him to be silly. Earl - Ozma is a beautiful name, but I know that didn't help her. I wonder how Moonunit and Dweezle are doing? You would have to know her a lot better to know if it was her name that was the problem or more likely other things. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 20:08:14 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Last two Digests AOL is finally up and running, at least for the moment, and 8/7 & 8/8 Digests were not "fried". Barb DeJohn: No, you are not the last to receive the Observer & Gazette, I still have not received mine. (:-( Mike "Shaggy Man": Happy reunion with your sister! Earl: At least YOU made it until Midnight at the Munchkin party last Saturday night! (It's a b---h getting old!) Dick (older than dirt) Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 22:01:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-96 Catching up on missed DIGESTs really takes time! Chris: I've never before heard of a publisher feeling personally attacked when someone pans one of his books, but then, most publishers don't care as much about their books and get as involved with them as you do. We're lucky you're out there. Anyway, maybe this will help balance things for you: I'm not particularly fond of DINAMONSTER, but I certainly *am* particularly fond of you and Steve. In other words, one thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. BUGLE reviews: You betcha there have been some negative reviews in there;however, sometimes a reviewer will decline to review a book. I asked Steve if I could review DINAMONSTER but, after reading it discovered it wasn't "my" kind of Oz book, whatever that means. I told Steve I'd be uncomfortable reviewing it. Good thing, as now I find out from Chris' post that Steve had partially financed it! He never told me that. Book Thieves: They do, unfortunately exist, most often in our own ranks. One Oz afficianado stole a valuable item from a college library, then turned around and sold said item to an Oz Club official. When the scam was discovered, it caused some anxious times for those involved. The item is back where it belongs now, fortunately. Moral: Don't trust folks too much. The book thief probably isn't a common thief. The thief in question has been friendly with quite a few DIGEST members. Pin/Shirt: Either, although I think the pin may be more practical. I love the notion of somehow using the WWW. "No WWW on the WWW"? Nah. But surely one of us can come up with something. Barbara: OZIANA was, as is true with all of the Club publications, delayed this year. I hope you've gotten yours by now. Gili: Next year's OZIANA returns to the old multiple-item format. Wait'll you see the nonsense I'm planning to use for fillers. Sort of a Percy Vere routine. Should be fun. YASO: Ken, I love YASO! Dave, could we add it to our ever-expanding dictionary? I think we should use it only in a teasingly affectionate way, never as a real flame. Example: Tyler, YASO if you change the generic story to make it less generic! (FWIW, I'd reminded Tyler that sometimes the monarchs were female and that many places wanted to assimilate travelers, not enslave them.) Aha: Does this .) look like the Scarecrow smiling when his left eye needs a touchup? David: Me too, for the Ozma essay, please. The MGM/Disney Studio is trying to sell a standard Oz poster for $100. Why so much? It's got Jerry Marin's and Meinhardt Raabe's signatures on it. My, oh my. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Friday 09-Aug-96 01:19:07 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things M*A*S*H IN OZ II: I'm afraid Colonel Flagg would try to arrest Ozma as a communist sympethizer! Kabumpo: Oh yeah!? Well, if he tries... Speaking of M*A*S*H, I suppose we could add to our list of Oz refernces the episode in which Klinger dresses as Dorothy... SCOTT'S CAT: "The naming of cats is a difficult matter; It isn't just one of your holiday games..." In that vein, you could listen to _Cats_ ( I recommend the London recording if you can find it :) ), or visit my page devoted to that great musical (http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Cats.html) for some good "Jellicle" cat names... :) Which leads me to ask THIS question: Are "Bungle" and "Eureka" cat names of the first kind ("that the family use daily"), or of the second kind ("that's particular...and more dignified")? (They can't be names of the third kind of course because that's "the name that no human research can discover, but the cat himself knows and will *never* confess".) :) :) :) WINKIE PHOTOS: Thanks for your Identifications in the photos, Gili! :) Now I know what you and some other folks on the Digest look like! INFORMANTS (REVISED): (These are mine and others' MOPPeT conjectures) -- Thompson: Kabumpo (sometimes Sir Hokus, Peter, or Pigasus) Neill: The Wogglebug Snow: The Shaggy Man The McGraws: Merry-Go-Round Eric G.: Tik-Tok (These are "confirmed") -- Baum: Dorothy* Cosgrove-Payes: The "little bird" Melody: Zim David H.: Barry Klein The Adelmans: The Woozy Yours Truly: The Adepts * As for _Land_, maybe Dorothy gave Baum the scoop about _Land_ at the end of her voyage in _Ozma_...Of course, since _Land_ was published in 1904, this would push _Ozma_ on the HACC from 1905 back to 1903 or early 1904...What do you think? "FICTION"???: I second Chris' indignation at the suggestion that Oz and its people are fictional! The Adepts are nearly as angry about it as Ozma. They are calling for not only a unilateral retraction from everyone who has said that Oz is fiction, but the swift removal from the front pages of all Oz books of the ugly words: "All characters in this book are ficticious and any resemblence to any real persons living or dead is entirely coincidental"... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 10, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:02:38 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission Danny ozbot writes in the 8/9 Digest the he can't find any Alice web-related sites on the Net. The Spring 1995 issue of _Knight Letter_ mentions the Lewis Carroll Home Page at "http://ux4/xso/uiuc/edu/~jbirenba/carroll.html". Hopefully this still exists and helps. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 07:07:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-09-96 > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > INFORMANTS (REVISED): > > (These are mine and others' MOPPeT conjectures) -- > Eric G.: Tik-Tok Excuse me, I'm right here, has nobody thought to ask me? (And where's Karyl? Our informant actually contacted her first!) But FTR (for the recrod), Karyl and I went to Oogaboo for a diplomatic/social visit, and got word of the story. We interviewed a number of the parties involved, and what was published is our distillation of what we heard, with a few extrapolations of our own to fill in the gaps. --Eric "That's my story and I'm sticking to it" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 11:08:29 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-09-96 My cat is female and we are looking for a name of the "second" kind. Nothing from "Cats", please. sdc ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 11:49:40 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: My next letter At the end of my next letter is an experiment in color printing. If your provider lets it through unaltered (which I expect it does NOT), it should appear in color on all ANSI-standard terminals or emulators thereof. Please don't edit out the stuff on the bottom (but I have a funny feeling it may come out on your system as =1B, and stuff like that, like Aaron's messages. But then, it may not, since this is only 7-bit ASCII, not 8-bit) --Mike " Shaggy Man " Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 11:50:28 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-09-96 Scott: Well, since your cat seems to have a Languid air, how about Langwidere? > > I've often wondered how the pins were set up in ninepins. Maybe in a > 1-2-3-2-1 lozenge shape? Yes, that's one way. Another was simply to line them up in a horizontal row (also called "skittles"). As you can imagine, it is nearly impossible to get more than two down at a time this way. Dave Hulan: > Mike: > The logo doesn't come out too badly in Geneva on the Mac (which is what I > normally use to read my AOL E-mail), but when it's a long Digest so I have to > open it with Word, and I see it in Times, it loses its impact entirely. It's > best in a monospaced font, though. (Of course, you could change the default font in Word....) Danny: Brain: Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky? Pinky: I think so, Brain, but I'm not sure if the sawhorse even _likes_ pistachio ice cream. Dick Randolph: > > Mike "Shaggy Man": Happy reunion with your sister! Thanks. I just put her on a plane to Cincinatti. It was fun. Our gentle CM: > "All characters in this book are ficticious and any resemblence > to any real persons living or dead is entirely coincidental"... Except those that you used as models for the three adepts, Dave? --Mike " Shaggy Man " Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 11:55:40 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-09-96 Scott: I don't think there are any named cats in Oz except for Bungle and Eureka (unless you want to count Gugu). As for non-Ozzy cat names, I'll leave that for others. The cats I had, back before my allergies ruled out keeping them, weren't named very imaginatively. (Well, there was John B. - named after the Confederate Gen. Hood, because, like him, all it knew how to do was attack.) Ruth: Welcome to the Digest! And I see you responded to my suggestion before it was even printed. I thought you were the one who wrote that article on the origin of the term "orc" in Tolkien, but as you said it was a good many years ago (probably nearly 25 if it was in Mythlore, since I stopped getting that by the mid-70s) and so I wasn't sure. Aaron and Robin: Copy of Ozma essay will go out when this goes to Dave. Chris D.: It's hard for me to imagine that something about your computer's hardware would make it impossible for you to check the Web if you can access AOL otherwise. But I suppose it's possible; maybe the Web browser takes more RAM than you have available or something of the sort. Your printer problem is more likely to be with the printer than with the computer, if it printed out half of a document. But I've had enough printer problems myself that I can hardly pose as an expert on that. One thing to be sure to try if you haven't already: unplug and replug all the connections - sometimes they come loose in the most improbable ways, and create truly mysterious problems. And, of course, rebuild the desktop. These aren't very likely to help, but they also take very little time and effort and are always worth trying just in case. Tyler: I like the idea of the YBR emerging from a computer screen, too. Barbara: Since I think I may have watched as much as five minutes of the Olympics, I can't say I'm going through withdrawal. If they'd done full broadcasts of the baseball or soccer matches I might have watched one or two, but I don't go for excerpts and I find most other Olympic sports about as exciting to watch as paint drying. Homer: Eureka became pink sometime between DOTWIZ and PATCHWORK GIRL, but there's no FF explanation. There are at least a couple of them in the non-FF books so far (Laumer's CARELESS KANGAROO and Chris's COLORFUL KITTEN), along with one in Gili's "Pigmentation" in OZIANA, and there's another one that will appear in my EUREKA when I finish it if it gets published. And there may well be others that I don't know of. And none of them are consistent with each other... Barry: Unless Geoff Ryman was the author of WAS, I second your request for identification. Robin: That was my feeling - that most book thieves are known to the people they steal from, rather than being the usual kind of professional or casual burglar. Certainly all the cases I've heard of where individuals, as opposed to libraries, lose books to thieves have been traced to acquaintances. And I wish I knew who the thief you mention was - though since, as I've said, I own nothing very valuable, I'm not really worried. I hope, though, that Oz collectors who -do- have valuable items have been made aware of the person's identity so they can be on their guard. (I realize that posting the name on the Digest would be risky, especially if nothing had ever been proved in court.) Dave: "Eureka" certainly seems to be a cat name of the first kind, since she's never called anything else (except "dear") that I recall. "Bungle" isn't used nearly as much, but it's hard to see it as a "more dignified" name, either. In my book the characters just call her "cat" most of the time if they have to address her by name. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 16:20:58 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Comments on 08-09-96 Scott--No coffee for this person up til 3:30 am! The only things I had to drink there are supposed to have the opposite effect :) The party goes at least that late every year--I seem to recall 5:30 once. Scott, again--Well, there's at least one other cat with a name in the FF, Felina, Ozana's kitten (did I get that right, anybody? It's been a very long time since I read _Magical Mimics_). I can't remember if any of the cats in Catty Corners in _Lost King_ are given names, but they're all nasty anyway ;) Ruth--expect an order from me at some point. Homer--There was an Oziana story some years back explaining Eureka's permanent pinkness (Robin?). On Oziana, the Gazette, and the Observer--I hope to see mine this weekend. My parents are coming down to Long Island to visit me, and my Club stuff still goes to their place in Connecticut, so I'm hoping they'll be bringing me a couple Ozzy envelopes :) Nate ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 16:24:00 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dave: When you welcome new members to the digest, please mention who they are (name, location, e-mail address. (I don't have time to go through the address masthead to search for new addresses!) For All: As a sometime conference facilitator and student of conflict management, let me suggest an approach which should be a better, less abrasive, way to settle conflicting viewpoints. It is called the ITEMIZED RESPONSE technique. When you hear a new idea or thought, no matter how outlandish or "crazy" or "wrong", first say one or two good things about the idea. (No idea is all bad [for example, advocating murder has the beneficial effect of reducing world overpopulation!], so break it down into its components, and praise the good parts. This makes the originator feel good [a stroke]. You may have to really think hard to identify a valuable component, but this mind-stretching exercise will help improve the idea, even beyond the originators conception. This is called IDEA BUILDING.) After saying the good things, give your concerns in terms of wishes. (If you say the idea costs too much, you infer that the originator is defective in his economic analysis [a mild put-down]; rather say "How can we make it cheaper?" This is a benign wish. Further, someone else privy to the discussion may know how to do that, and thus build on the idea and move it closer to practicality. A new idea is like a newborn baby, it is tentative and not fully developed. When we go for the jugular with some quick judgemental comment, we tend to dismiss the whole idea before it is fully understood by both the presenter and the listeners. Then we will lose any good components that are worth building upon. Its like throwing out the baby with the bath water! So next time something seems to violate the HACC, don't say: "It is not Oz-like." Say instead, "How can we reconcile this approach with Baum's Oz canon." Even better, since some people may not care whether a new Oz story is "historically accurate", say: "How does this enlarge our conception of the world of Oz?" This itemized response technique can be applied to any interpersonal encounter with friends, mates, children, parents, etc. as well as in "talking" to Ozzy Digest members. TRY IT; IT WORKS WONDERS! Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 17:14:24 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Scott's Cat Scot, here is a short list of possible names for your cat: Peaches Muffy Fluffy Bud Hairball Mac Killer Shredder Newt Claws Shedorama Spazz I seriousy the Wogglebug could have been Neill's informant. He would insist that the facts be correct, which in Neill's books they are not, and in any case there are worldview conflicts. Homer, Aaron and I have a theory about how Eureka came to be pink, which I cannot spill here as that would ruin some potential storylines. Note that in at least one book that Eureka is purple; this theory does explain it. Let me just hint that the incident in Mangabooland is inspiration and leave it at that. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 18:31:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Cat names 1) Scott, how about Spot (a la Data's cat) or Fluffy Muffin Cocoa Butter (originally the name of a creature designed to be unbearably cute on Mystery Science Theater 3000)? 2) Homer, I think Eureka is pink at least by _The Patchwork Girl of Oz_ and definitely by _The Lost Princess of Oz_. Why she's pink no one knows for sure, though the Woozy tells me he once caught the Nine Tiny Piglets carrying a bottle of pink dye and a brush around in the middle of the night. 3) Barry, I suppose that Neill's unrealisticness is due to Blogo the Square Beast's tendency to get unbelievably drunk. I suppose that Henry "Hank" Stover, who lied about his origins and had a grudge against Glinda for marrying Buton-Bright instead of him, is Farmer's informant. Liir, the illegitimate son of Bastinda-Elphaba, was probably Macguire's informant. He may have leaked his distorted version of the story after temporarily working for the Wizard, discovering his origins in Glinda's Book of Records, falling in love with Dorothy, and getting expelled from the Emerald City for putting Eureka in a fish well. Laumer's informant is almost certainly the self-aggrandizing Till Orangespeigel, probably omitting the punishments he recieved for the practice of illicit magic. Ura Wizard (originally Eugene Williams), illegitimate son of the Wizard, is probably Tedrow's informant, but the book is based on a drug trip rather than historical events. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 10-Aug-96 01:22:02 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MORE OF MY INFORMANT MOPPETS: Eric wrote: >Karyl and I went to Oogaboo for a diplomatic/social visit, and >got word of the story. We interviewed a number of the parties involved, >and what was published is our distillation of what we heard I guess that's the way to do it...Get info. from corroborating witnesses... The Adepts have just informed me that Laumer's informant is Button-Bright, who has weird daydreams about marrying Glinda; and after Ozma played Lorraine in the Emerald City Little Theatre's production of _The Man Who Came to Dinner_, Button-Bright was told by a proud and elated Dorothy that "Ozma is now a thespian!", but in his usual absent-mindedness, he heard the "TH" in the word "thespian" as an "L", and the "P" as a "B"... Also, the Adepts surmise (though they're not sure) that Gregory Maguire's informant is probably Forg, one of the villians in _Locasta_ who passonately loathes Glinda and the Wizard, and who thinks that the WWW is history's greatest freedom fighter since Zsa Zsa Gabor. NEW MEMBERS: Herm wrote: >When you welcome new members to the digest, please mention who they are >(name, location, e-mail address. (I don't have time to go through the >address masthead to search for new addresses!) That's not always possible, since people don't always give their names etc. when they subscribe. I could ask them to identify themselves now, but they are *not* obliged to respond. No posts from Tyler, Gili or Bear today??? Where is everybody?! I miss you! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 11, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 21:34:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-09-96 Ruth: Hi! Welcome to the DIGEST. I'm sure folks have figured out from your post that you're knowledgeable and articulate, but wait'll they find out *how* knowledgeable and articulate. Y'all, this is an awesome lady. A very talented professional writer, one of the first Oz Club members, an ex-Oz Research Coordinator, and an all-round nifty person. I hope she stays on the DIGEST. I'm sure glad you set the record straight on "orc." I knew most of what you wrote, but not well enough to have written it and was too lazy to look it up. When my finances recover, I'll be ordering stuff from you. I'm so glad someone has published Jim Haff's corrections to Snow. He'd be pleased that they've made it into print. Cat name: Scott, one of the best names I've ever heard for a cat is "C'mere." She owns a friend of mine who says she chose her own name. She responds well to either her full name (C'mere Cat) or just C'mere. If you want an Ozzy cat name, there's always Felina, Ozana's cat from MIMICS. Munchkin Artwork: If it was good, I'd like to know how to contact the artist, too. I need illustrators for OZIANA. "Umbrella Island" in OZIANA: I dunno what happened to the d-mned chunk Ruth refers to. It was there when I proofed the fax on my monitor (I couldn't make it print, BTW. It's no fun proofing on a monitor, believe me.) If anyone wants it, e-mail me and I'll send it to you privately. It's VERY aggravating when text just "disappears." I'm sorry. MOPPeT: RPT didn't need an informant. I've never met an Ozzier person. She was a tiny, whimsical, darling lady, full of laughter and warmth...just the way we've probably all dreamed she'd be. I think she probably went to Oz on a regular basis, herself. She certainly would have fit right in there. --Robin (yes, Ruth, it's I) Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 11:47:19 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-96 Mike: Sure, I could change the default font in Word, but for most purposes I prefer the default font to be Times. And for most other purposes I have stationery set up with the alternate font I prefer. And, for that matter, except for reading ASCII art, I prefer to get long Digests in Times because it doesn't spread out as much. And I've seen the ASCII art in a monospaced font; nice, but I don't need to see it that way every day. Nate: I'd forgotten about Felina. None of the cats in Catty Corners is named; I checked that yesterday. However, there is at least one reference to a Tom, so there are (fairly) small male cats in Oz after all. I finally got my Gazette and Observer yesterday. They were sent to SSA; I'm not sure how the IWOC even got that address. Must have been from something returned from Santa Ana, because I never gave it to them. But it was the only forwarding address I could give the SA post office at the time we moved. Herm: Good advice. Now if everyone can just remember it in the flow of conversation... Barry: Actually, it's by no means certain that Eureka was ever purple. It's true that Dorothy refers to "my purple kitten" at one point in GLINDA, but elsewhere in that same book she tells Coo-ee-oh, "I've got a pink kitten that sometimes talks like that." This sounds more like the Eureka we all know from DOTWIZ; the implication seems to me to be that at some point Dorothy acquired a purple kitten in addition to Eureka, and that the purple one was a particularly good climber (since the context of mentioning it was that even it couldn't climb the outside of Flathead Mountain). It never appears on stage, though. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 11:54:18 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Finally! David H: Unless you received the Oz Observer & Gazette today, I am no longer the last! And thanks to Gili and Eric, I am able to identify those in the '95 Winkie Con. photos, and can put faces to names of Digest subscribers. (Actually, I've seen a picture of Gili before, and met Robin Hess last week at the Munchkin Con.) Now faces will come to mind when I read Eric, Laura, Robin O. & Jim V. (:-D Scott: My kids once got a kitten as a gift, and named it "Charlie Brown". . . . until they discovered "Charlie" was a female. So they named her "Chaz". Just a thought. Dick Randolph (dixnam@aol.com) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 09:13:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Ozzy Digest of 8.10.96 Dave, Here are a couple of home pages that are current as of this morning: Lewis Carroll Society (UK): http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Aztec/LCS.htm Lewis Carroll Society (North America):http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~jbirenba/lcsnahp.html Peter Hanff ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 15:29:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest David: On second thought, "gin" and "kin" are pronounced the same. I must have mixed up some words. David and Bear: I think that it is possible for a "weak" magic worker to be able to cast a spell that a more powerful person could not break without knowing the specifics of the spell, although it probably couldn't happen very often. The only time Button-Bright was even mentioned in the RPT books was at the end of _Cowardly Lion_, where RPT mentioned that Button-Bright couldn't hear enough of Bob's adventures in Un. Barbara: I am definitely going through Olympics withdrawal. Since CompuServe let me go the day of the opening ceremonies, I was able to watch all of NBC's coverage every day. I missed the 1500m run, though. Anyway, I have not decided if I will be taking reviews on non-BEOO books, but hold the thought for a while and we'll see what develops. Homer: The question of Eureka's color has come up before. We are not sure when she made the transformation from white to pink. It may have been due to the magical properties of the pink sun. However, it is unclear why the sun would have changed only Eureka. Perhaps the sun affects cats in some way. Dorothy once even referred to Eureka as "purple", although that was in all likelihood just a typo, and I can't even remember which book had this. Barry: Geoff Ryman is the author of _Was_. THis book wins the gold medal for most Un-Ozzy book of all time, although as a story itself, it is not that bad. Bear: Thanks for the "non-silly" defense. I'll leave it to someone else to define the Silly OzBuls, however. HACC and informants: I have placed _Dot&Wiz_ in 1906 to coincide with the Great San Francisco Earthquake, and _Ozma_ needs to be placed relatively close to that, since it is doubtful that Henry and Dorothy could have stayed in Australia very long. Perhaps Baum got his info from another source for this tale. Maybe Glinda sent him a note, or the ancestor of Cosgrove-Payes "little bird" happened to fly into LFB's room. March Laumer placed _Dot&Wiz_ in 1908 to coincide with the meteor that hit Siberia, interestingly enough. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 18:59:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-96 Book Thief: I will not post the name of the book thief. I promise he won't be able to thieve again and that we're all safe from him. I've had several of you asking me in private posts about this, and I'm almost sorry I brought it up. Please, just remember it for the lesson I tried to teach with it. It's the knowledgeable person who goes after Oz books, and many of us who know about the value of the books are friendly with each other. Problem: just because someone seems nice doesn't mean he doesn't covet your books.... Computers: I have a Mac with plenty of memory, I was able to access the WWW via AOL for another friend with a Mac, I'm reasonably intelligent, and my Mac usually works well; however, I CAN not access the WWW via AOL and will probably quit my subscription to the service because of the problem. Trying to get AOL to respond to queries seems to be very difficult. I tried their help room at around 2:15 A.M. one weekday night. There were 4 people ahead of me in the shortest queue. After waiting more than ten minutes and still being person #5 in line, I gave up. I want a service with a good browser. I'd like to use Netscape with Yahoo. I wanna see all your home pages' graphics. Right now, all I have is a Lynx access. Dave: I assume my post yesterday arrived too late to make today's DIGEST? --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 10-Aug-96 20:24:36 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things TRIVIA QUESTION FOR THE DAY: What resident of Fairyland (not necesserily Baumgea) has been played by both the utterly dissimilar actresses Edna May Oliver and Ann Jillian?(!) OZ AND THE "TUNGUSKA EVENT": Somehow I doubt that the Tunguska impact had anything to do with the earthquake in DOTWIZ, unless it was a mini-black hole as some have suggested, and that it twisted space-time enough to create a momentary wormhole into Fairyland that Dorothy and the Wizard fell into. :) MOPPeT is that similar temporary wormholes were created by other things like the whirlpool in _Scarecrow_ and Dorothy's cyclone/tornado (Which WAS it anyway??? -- Or maybe I've just answered my own question: Neither.) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 12, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 15:54:06 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: for digest Hi Digest! I've been lurking for the last couple of days because I'm busy busy busy... I have zillions of ideas for cat names. Among my favourites: Cello, Miao Tse-Tung, Mischief. My cats are Jenny (short for Jennyanydots, Dave) and Liki (long for "Lee", she was born in a family of martial arts freaks and Bruce Lee fans). But this is non-Ozzy. Shirts and buttons: please e-mail me *privately* if you are interested in either or both, and how many of each you may want if we ever get around to producing them. So far I have: Intersted in shirts: Nate David Robin Tyler Dick Randolph Dave Danny Mike Chris Interested in buttons: Dave Scott Mike Chris Robin Design ideas so far: Yellow brick road winding out of computer screen, book of records labeled Ozzy digest, play on WWW, something with Tiktok in it, something with the masthead in it. There may have been others that I missed, please remind me! If anyone actually objects to any of these ideas, let me know. Also, if anyone wants to undertake the actual design and/or production of the t-shirts, let me know. (again, I'd do it, but it is not practical considering my geographical location). Very warm welcome to Ruth Berman! thanks for the Orc/Ork information! Also fascinated by the information about Lurline included with the snailmail for the Ozzy research group. Bye! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) gili@scso.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 10:11:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-11-96 Dave: My last post showed up on my monitor as having been double-spaced. Very odd. Trivia: Carroll's Duchess? Something Carrollian, I think. Dame Edna's face was made for the role of the Duchess, don'tcha think? ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 14:18:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-11-96 To: Dave Hardenbrook Message-id: <960811181844_103330.323_JHL36-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT From: Barbara DeJohn Hi All!!! To answer Dave's trivia question " The Red Queen." Actually I know that Ann Jillian played her but I've never heard of Edna May Oliver. I bought a cutout paper doll set of Judy Garland yesterday at the "Senator John Heinz Pittsburgh Regional History Center." It didn't have a Dorothy costume included in it. I still haven't received the Oziana and I'm pretty sure that I ordered it. Who should I contact about that? Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 19:09:00 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-11-96 Dave wrote: >What resident of Fairyland (not necesserily Baumgea) has been played >by both the utterly dissimilar actresses Edna May Oliver and Ann Jillian?(!) > Is it the Queen of Hearts? I believe Edna May Oliver was the Queen of Hearts in the 1933 Paramount picture [I think the date & studio are right], and Jillian was in a recent T.V. movie. BTW, can Herm supply some info. on the Munchkin auction? Thanks, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 15:59:23 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Edna May Oliver and Ann Jillian Dave: Uh, would the answer be the Red Queen? Dave again: I thought the Tunguska blast was supposed to be due to a piece of a comet. Who ever suggested it was a black hole? ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 17:34:16 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-96 Buckethead Books' "Colorful Kitten of Oz," illustrated by Yours Truly, Chris Dulabone offers an explanation of Eureka's changing colors. I also read that Oziana several years ago about how the Tiny Piglets got Eureka dyed permanently pink. So there's at least two published stories out there about Eureka's color. Melody ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 19:43:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Books and such: Well, I guess the lesson here is to just be careful. Living out here in the wilderness as I do, I don't have to worry much. Robin: Netscape is one of the best browsers around. If you sign up with CompuServe you can get it for free. Netscape, I mean, you will still have to pay for CompuServe. The only drawback is that they designed a special version that always goes to www.compuserve.com right away. It can get a little annoying, but that's the way they did it. Dave: The only possible guess I can give is Cinderella's Fairy Godmother. Also, Laumer had some reason for the meteor, but I forgot what it was. News Flash: At the behest of Chris Dulabone, I went down to the University to try to locate some of the work of the late Marcus Mebes. Since he worked at the library for a while, I went there as well as talking to one of his former professors. I will share one of my findings with you: He studied Greek Mythology extensively during his time as a student, and he was interested in mixing this with Oz history. I believe that he intended his story _Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz_ to be an example of Ozian mythology. In fact, on the title page (and in some of the roughs which I found), the words *Ozian myth* appear. I do not believe that Marcus intended this story to be completely historically accurate. I believe that he intended it to be a myth: something that is not a blow-by-blow account of EXACTLY what happened, but rather a tale that has been passed down through the generations by the Oz folk. Despite all this, I will retain this book in the HACC because even though it may not be entirely true ("What is truth?"), I believe that the essence of the story is true. That Lurline, queen of the fairies (or at least one band of them, anyway) saw the land that we know of as Oz, enchanted it, met Ozroar and ordained that he and his descendants would rule Oz, with a little fairy help, of course. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:30:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Dave - Thanks for missing the grouchy old Bear. I was just buried under work. To avoid any further confusion, Geoff Ryman was the author of "Was." This in no way should be considered as an endorsement. Scott - Since this cat thread seems to be continuing and you seem serious, please provide some description of your cat. How can we possibly select an appropriate name without knowing anything about your future master? :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 13, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:35:41 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: hi The St. Paul Ordway Theater is currently (July 23-August 18) presenting an unusual dramatization of "The Wizard of Oz," written and directed by Worth Gardner, and deriving from an earlier version he did for the Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park. (The Ordway president, Kevin McCollum, is from Cincinnati, and pushed for an expanded production to come here.) The Ordway is thinking of sending it on tour. If it comes near any of you -- it's an interesting idea, interesting enough to be going to see, and it has a lot of delightful moments, but overall it's a clunky production. It isn't what you could call good, but it has interesting things to think about. It has two shticks, and the two don't work well together. One shtick is to reproduce the 1939 MGM movie on stage. All the actors carefully reproduce the vocal and physical mannerisms of the MGM versions of their characters. They do it quite well. I particularly enjoyed Howard Kaye's recreation of the Tin Man's dance (complete with two toots of smoke coming out of his funnel). The other shtick is that Baum himself is a character in the story, and it is supposed to be taking place at a time when Baum hasn't yet finished writing the story, doesn't know how it's coming out, and worries about whether he has the brain, heart, and courage to be a writer. He is discouraged by his "Nemesis," a man who represents his inner discouragement and who also plays the Wicked Witch of the West (in this version, the brother of the Wicked Witch of the East). Baum interacts with some of the characters, watches over them, and takes on all the Frank Morgan roles, plus Aunt Em and Glinda. The problem, of course, is that the MGM movie isn't the story Baum wrote, and I kept being jarred by wondering what Baum was doing wandering around in the movie. (Even for audience members who don't know the books as well, there must be some level of recognition that the movie version of a book is almost always significantly different from the original.) There's a lot of camping around in the staging, trying to be funny, and getting generally tedious, as when the chorus is presented as being a pack of "Elementals" (as in elemental spirit), who run around posturing while Baum explains to Dorothy that they are Elementals, and who take on the roles of the Munchkins and the Emerald City voices and the Winkie soldiers. It would probably have been more effective just to call them the Chorus and not try to explain why the same people are playing all the group parts. The most touching moment, for me, was the end, when Baum, having come to the end of his story, talks about the joy it gave him to write a story for children, closing with the passage from one of Baum's letters about how "to please a child is a sweet and lovely thing, that warms the heart and brings its own reward." ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:48:11 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: weekend's worth of ozzy d's This past weekend there was a small sf con here (Twin Cities), Diversicon 4. Diversicon always has a posthumous guest of honor in addition to the live ones, and this year the pgoh was Baum (the previous ones had been Lewis Carroll, Gene Roddenberry, and J.M. Barrie, I think). So there were some Oz items on the program -- showings of the Disney "Return to Oz," and Baum's silent of "Patchwork Girl," and discussions of Oz films and of Baum/ the Oz books. Also a discussion of "Stonewall and Oz," about how Judy Garland's Dorothy and the MGM movie have become an icon of importance in gay thought. This one was opposite something else I wanted to attend, so I missed it. The other two discussions I took part in. The film discussion was meant to be a panel discussion, with me and Joe Agee, who had wanted to discuss specifically the use of fantasy elements in film, but he got tied up at work and couldn't make it, so we called it a round-table discussion (there were half a dozen or a dozen audience types there, including Phyllis Ann Karr and Margaret Howes) and all there, of course, because they'd just watched the showings of one or both of the films and had a strong interest in the topic), and we talked about Oz films generally, and had a good time. Phyllis and Margaret and I were the panel to talk about Baum and the Oz books, and here, too, the audience was knowledgeable and enthusiastic, and we had fun talking about how the distrust of fantasy books in general and Oz in particular has given way to a general acceptance. Scott Cummings -- I see that Snow's Felina has been suggested as an Ozzy cat name. How about Hungry T. as a possibility? Depending on the cat's coloration, you might go for Gloma (from Wishing Horse/Black Forest), any of the Nome names (grey), or any Winkie name (yellow range). Or in the reddish range, maybe Little Pink (referring also to the Glass Cat's brains and to Eureka both)? Robin Olderman -- Thanks for the kind words! Yes, it's easy to imagine RPT as a regular Oz visitor. Someone who visited Oz and wrote an Oz book about the visit, though, unless writing about an adventure that the visitor personally took part in, would still need an "informant" -- the informant, in that case, would be telling the writer about recent events in conversation, not writing a letter or telegraphing on shaggy-morse-code to deliver the information. (Then again, Royal Historians probably subscribe to the Ozmapolitan?) I'm one who doesn't have access to web sites, so far, at any rates -- the computer I'm on doesn't have enough memory, although it does have e-mail access. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 23:08:21 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: quick post Danny: The stylized lion entwined in the Oz that you often see on items --including the BOW mug I used every day until I had a chance to buy the centennial-logo mug -- was designed by WW Denslow and is in public domain. Anyone can have it embroidered on a neck tie! And of all the MGMish sild ties out there, the "Kansas" tie in greys or sepia is the most conservative for wear amongst the non-Ozaddicted. The art on exhibit at the Munchkin convention was from a member in China. Bill Stillman took it to use with a Bugle essay on Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz. He has quite a bit of artwork from this talented illustrator and is eager to have it enjoyed by more members. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 07:08:53 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission Sunday morning at the Munchkin Convention, a half hour video on "The Making of The Wizard of Oz on Ice" was presented twice. Whatever what one thinks about the translation of the book to the MGM movie, the movie apparently has been translated to an ice show very well. When viewing the tape I felt regret that I had apparently missed the show. Not so. _The Wizard of Oz on Ice_ is still touring and will appear in the Washington, DC metro area in September. It will be at the Patriot Center on the Virginia side September 18-22 and at the USAir Arena in Maryland September 25-29. Giant Foods is even offering discount coupons for the Thursday and Friday evening shows. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 10:38:43 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Gili: Thanks for tabulating the votes for shirts and buttons. I am also interested in a tee shirt, and favor a computer/Tiktok combination, for what it is worth. Scott: Is there anything specific you want to know about the auction? Speaking as a member of the IWOC Board (since the auction proceeds are an important source of revenue for printing the Baum Bugle), I was disappointed by the results. Patrick Maund did his usual fantastic job as auctioneer, but the bidding crowd was smaller than usual, and the buying was not spirited. As a result there were many bargains, for example Dorothy & the Wizard, 12 cp, in dj: $80 Who's Who 1st ed. in vgd dj: $150 Glinda 1st ed.: $80 Mary Louise 1st ed.: $20 Laughing Dragon, good+: $85 (easily worth 2x this) Pirates, 1st ed., vgd: $105 Phoebe Daring 1st ed.: $50 This is not to be interpreted that there is now a bear market on Oz/Baum books. One auction does not make a market! Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 12:40:15 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-11 &12-96 Tyler: It seems unlikely that the pink sun had any effect on Eureka's actual color; I think Dorothy or someone would have remarked on it if she'd remained pink when they got to Voe. And the "purple" might well have been a typo, though it's also possible that Dorothy had a second kitten, as I hypothesized on 8/11. Since the description of the events leading up to the earthquake in DOTWIZ don't correspond in the least to those leading up to the San Francisco quake of 1906 (the earth had not been rumbling all night before the big shock hit), I don't think your placing it in 1906 is particularly justified. (It's your HACC, of course. I just disagree with it.) Robin: I didn't expect you to post the thief's name. But I'm glad to hear that he's been neutralized and won't be in a position to repeat his crime. I've never had any problem accessing the WWW through AOL. Wonder why you and Chris have both had so much trouble? (Finding what I'm looking for in a reasonable time, now, that's something else. Unless I have the URL to start with, or a link, it hasn't been easy. But I'm stingy with my on-line time.) 8/12: Oddly, no comment hooks at all. So I'll just make a note that I'd like to hear any feedback from those of you who have read my Ozma essay (in private E-mail, of course, since it would just puzzle those who haven't read it - but I post this here because I haven't kept a list of who's gotten it, except that I know you're all on the Digest). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:32:40 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Languid Air? I have just received via snail mail a stunning drawing by Danny Wall of the ol' gal in the midst of several heads. Hey, this guy is GOOD. He should be illustrating books, too! This marks the second calendar illo to be in my hands for the 1998 Oz Club Calendar, and it is really nifty. Too bad the Club isn't rich enough to have this colorized. That would be even cooler! But maybe Danny will make an animated film about Langie one day... ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 20:29:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls I gather Edna May Oliver was the Red Queen in the early Alice in Wonderland? Robin - Oh yes! Dame Edna is perfect. Back to Oz - Briefly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 21:07:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-12-96 OZIANA: Those of you who have asked to have the missing page...hang on. I think the Club may have it printed, which would sure' be better than my having to retype it and send it to you as an e-mail file. (I erased my original of the file...thought I was through with it! The only copy I have is a fax, and I don't know how to convert it into an e-mailable file.) I promise: one way or t'other, it will be made available to you. Dave: Aren't you gonna answer the trivia Q? I think the others who guess Red Queen are probably right and I'm probably wrong, but I'd like to know for sure. Also, are you O.K.? You made no commentary at the end of the last DIGEST, and I miss hearing from you. Cats: I've had Ozzy cats named Button-Bright, Mrs. Diggs (she did--dig, I mean), and Toko (Happy Toko), who wasn't smart enough to be named Button-Bright and who, in fact, was frequently called "Dumsh*t" 'cause she thought our rugs were her potty paper. Toko also was stupid enough to stroll casually between two Siamese cats who were spitting and howling at each other across the sidewalk from each other. She'd gotten out of the house and was feeling smug about her escape! Whoever said that all cats are smart never met Toko; however, she was sweet and absolutely beautiful. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 11:10 +0000 (WET) From: lti@lava.net (Linda Inouye) Subject: For Ozzy Digest admin. NOT for posting Hi Dave, Just so you know that I received the Ozzy Digests of 8-9, 8-10 and 8-11 this morning, Sunday 8-11. Looks like you sent them out on separate days so I thought I'd mention it in case others might have had the same problem. Just glad that the delay was not due to some misfortune that had befallen you. I enjoy browsing the digest and sharing items with my 12-year old daughter Katy who is the serious Oz fan here. Thanks for your work on this. Aloha, Linda Inouye Mililani, Hawaii ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 13-Aug-96 01:32:50 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZ OBSERVER: I finally got the Observer/Gazette! :) :) :) I'm really enjoying it ( especially since my name gets mentioned twice! :) :) )! I must say in honesty that I enjoy the Observer/Gazette more than the _Bugle_. I like reading about the *people* in the Oz Club and their activities more than anything else! MY TRIVIA QUESTION: The Red Queen is the correct answer. Edna May Oliver played her in the old Paramount version of _Alice_ (will they *ever* release it on video???), whose all-star cast also included Gary Cooper as the White Knight, Cary Grant as the Mock Turtle, Edward Everett Horton as the Mad Hatter, and W.C. Fields as Humpty Dumpty. Ann Jillian played a very inappropritely sexy Red Queen in the recent 3-hour TV adaptation of Alice that, while having the least cuts of any _Alice_ Adaption that includes _Through the Looking Glass_, it had certain inane things thrown into it, most significantly the presence of a Godzilla-like Jabberwock periodically terrorizing Alice and the Wonderlanians. For those who didn't know who Edna May Oliver was, she is also famous for playing other movie roles, including Aunt Betsy in the old 30's version of _David Copperfield_, and Aunt March in the Kathrine Hepburn version of _Little Women_. She was also in a Fred Astaire-Ginger Rogers movie whose name I can't remember in which Fred and Ginger played a real-life married dancing couple who were famous early this century. I think Dame Edna played their manager. And just to get an Ozzy bit into this: I stand by my assertion that "Carrollgea" (Wonderland, Looking-Glass Land, Snark Island, etc.) is a neighboring continent to Baumgea. I now have as supporting evidence the latest installment of the _Emerald City Mirror_ from the Royal Club of Oz, in which Ozma describes her meeting with the King and Queen of Hearts at the recent Convention of Fairy Rulers. Thanks to Robin and Linda for their concern and kind remarks for me today! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 13, 1996 (ADDENDUM) *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 07:14:37 +0100 From: Bill Wright Subject: FW: Trivia Can anyone help Terri with this question? >---------- >From: Terri Currier[SMTP:nccofpdi@apk.net] >Sent: 12. august 1996 18:32 >To: piglet@halcyon.com >Subject: Trivia > >Re: The Wizard of Oz > >Could you please tell me what the soldiers are chanting while guarding >the witches castle? I know it's not "Oreo, oreo". > >Thanks!!!!!!! > ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 09:43:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-13-96 From: Barbara DeJohn Hi everyone!!! I saw a game called "Pigasus" yesterday at an upscale toy store my daughters and I were visiting. (we visit it often and since your visiting you don't have to buy anything!!) The game had a picture of a pig with wings. Could it be the same one from Oz? I have volunteered to handle the t-shirt and button organizing unless someone else really wants to do it. Naturally the more you print the cheaper it is and alot depends on the artwork. I cannot do the artwork myself so if someone will send me their ideas I can check out prices and get back to everyone. My snail mail is: Barbara DeJohn 1154 Tidewood Drive Bethel Park PA. 15102 Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 06:53:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: For the Digest Everybody, I'm currently in the process of updating my Oz FAQ (and soon, the web page). I think I just about got all the new stuff in (and taken a lot of old stuff out), but I have a note from someone about the web pages with Esparanto versions of "The Wizard of Oz" and "The Land of Oz." I want to link up to these pages, but now I can't find the URL's! The search engines can't seem to find them, either. So if you have the URL's for these pages, could you e-mail them to me, please? Oh, and Dave, if someone (like Linda) says in their subject line "Not for posting," it's a good idea not to post it in the Digest, as you did do today. --Eric "Back for good next Monday" Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # "My childhood had an unhappy ending -- I grew up." --Frank and Ernest ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 08:46:13 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: for Ozzy Digest A couple of second thoughts, on cat names, and on the Ordway's current "Wizard" production: Gugu the leopard (Magic), and Blinkie the cat and Shiegra the lioness (Santa Claus) might also be cat-name possibilities. It might or might not be appropriate that Blinkie could be confused with the witch (Scarecrow). If people want to get programs of the production, I imagine that the Ordway will have some left over and would respond to requests for copies. Ordway Theater, 345 Washington Str, St. Paul MN 55102. Dave Hardenbrook: Yes, it would be fun to have videotapes available of the Paramount "Alice," wouldn't it. (The Irwin Allen tv version with too much screaming at Jabberwock appearances, however, would not!) Dave Hulan: But surely Baum was thinking of the San Francisco earthquake as being the one Dorothy was in, even though he was getting details wrong? If it's argued that they're not the same, then it's as odd that Dorothy was caught in an otherwise unremembered earthquake (so large and presumably so memorable) as that she noted otherwise unremembered tremors preceding the San Francisco one. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 10:49:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Edna May Oliver Dave: The Astaire/Rogers/Oliver movie you were thinking of is The Vernon and Irene Castle Story (RKO). It appeared in 1939, which as we all know was the Golden Year of American cinema :) This is a good time to mention the Internet Movie Data Base, which is an invaluable resource for movie buffs. You can search the data base by movie title or cast members and get more or less complete information on director, cast, release date, studio, technical crew, etc. Hyperlinks galore: if you click on the name Edna May Oliver, for instance, you'll get a listing of all of her films, and then you can click again on any of those titles for more information on the films. In many cases there are also links to famous quotations from the movies, reviews, trivia, goofs (some interesting continuity gaffes in _The Wizard of Oz-, for example), sound tracks and videos, and technical info. The URL address is http://us.imdb.com/search.html Check it out! ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 13-Aug-96 12:21:37 From: Dave Hardenbrook MY BIG BLUNDER: Eric wrote: >Oh, and Dave, if someone (like Linda) says in their subject line "Not for >posting," it's a good idea not to post it in the Digest, as you did do >today. This was an honest slip on my part, and I have E-mailed Linda an apology. This is the first time since the Digest started I've ever made a mistake like this and I promise it won't happen again. Though right now I feel shorter than a Munchkin and sillier than an OzBul. :( :( :( ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 14, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:01:04 -0600 From: Richard_Tuerk@etsu.edu (Richard Tuerk) Subject: Questions about Mary Louise stories I hope you'll distribute my questions about Baum's Mary Louise stories. He published Mary Louis novels under the pseudonym Edith Van Dyne. In particular, I want to know whether anyone knows if any studies of the Mary Louise books have been published. I also want to know whether anyone knows if anything has been published about the Mary Louise typescript typed on the backs of pages of the typescript of _The Magic of Oz_ that is housed in the Harry Ransom Humanities Research Center of the University of Texas at Austin. In 1985 Michael Patrick Hearn examined the typescript and wrote a letter about it that is now kept in the folder with the typescript. Did he ever publish anything about it. I'd appreciate any information anyone can give me about these matters. Thanks. Rich Tuerk ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:08:35 -0400 From: Homer Another question: Since Dorothy was about as tall as a full-grown Munchkin man in WIZARD, and assuming that all of Oz's people go by the same height as the Munchkins; were Aunt Em, Uncle Henry, The Shaggy Man, and other American adults considered giants? IIRC, Ozma was described as a bit taller than Dorothy. But shouldn't she be a lot shorter, since she is from Oz and pretty much a child? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 09:43:05 -0800 From: Bob Shepherd Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-13-96 Those folks at Books of Wonder are a class act! Many months ago my daughter wrote a letter to Dorothy asking how she and her other Oz friends were doing. She didn't get a response until this past week, when she got a very nice letter apologizing for not getting a response earilier, and by explaining how her letter was hidden by a mean little nome. The letter went on to explain how the Scarecrow just recently found the letter. Needless to say, this letter just thrilled my daughter! Changing subjects.......I know the movie "Twister" is kind of old news now, but remember the machine the movie's characters used called "Dorothy"? This is the one that was filled with golf ball-sized sensors that got sucked up into the tornado's funnel and provided all sorts of data about the dynamics of the tornado. I have a friend who works for the National Weather Service, and I asked him if this is pure fiction or whether it is based (at least partially) in truth. What my friend told me is that the machine that was described in the movie is fiction, but that the National Severe Storms Lab in Norman, OK does have a machine to study tornados called....Toto! Toto has been moved in the direct path of a tornado several times, enchancing tornado data research. The difference between Toto and the movie's machine is that it doesn't use flying sensors. Bob Shepherd ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Shepherd Sun Microsystems, Inc robert.shepherd@west.sun.com Quality Systems Beaverton, OR phone: 503-520-7696 FAX: 503-520-7730 Deep Thought of the Day: Last week I forgot how to ride a bicycle. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:51:38 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi everyone! Ruth Berman wrote: <> A very interesting and telling review! To be sure, adapters usually go with the version of a novel most familiar to the general public rather than the original, even the original the character in the adaptation would know. One case in point that's been noted was in "The King and I," in which a Siamese lady is so taken with the novel "Uncle Tom's Cabin" that she turns it into a Siamese play. So far so good, but said play ("The Small House of Uncle Thomas") in many areas owes more to the stage adaptations of the story rather than to Harriet Beecher Stowe's original novel (all the Siamese writer supposedly knows, just as Baum died 20 years before the MGM movie). (When Eliza flees the slavecatcher across the ice, she's pursued by bloodhounds...this happened on the stage, but not in Stowe's text.) David Hulan wrote: <> Same here. There are earthquakes all the time in California, of varying degrees...and has been pointed out, even if Dorothy was only 5 in THE WIZARD OF OZ (I personally place her closer to 7 or 8 then) she'd be 12 by 1906, since she hadn't moved to Oz yet, and that's a bit too old (especially since there were two more books before she moved to Oz for good). << So I'll just make a note that I'd like to hear any feedback from those of you who have read my Ozma essay...>> As I've mentioned, my time's very short these days, but I'll try to. Thank you very much for sending it, though, and I largely agree...though how many of us, at the physical age of perhaps 10 or 11, would have been able to run a country even as well as she did in the early years of her reign? (There was never any indication of an older regent, as there usually was when a king or queen of that age inherited a throne on this side of the rainbow.) Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> I agree...though I'd say it's separated not by distance but by height. As with the Vegetable Kingdom, Valley of Voe and other places in DOTWIZ, which even Baum forgot were underground when he placed them on the map, let's not forget that Wonderland is underground! (Looking-Glass Land has enough similarities, including the reappearance of Haigha and Hatta (the March Hare and Mad Hatter), to place it nearby.) In THE YELLOW KNIGHT OF OZ, Zunda lists nine levels of underground civilizations: Neath, Underneath, Low, Below, Down, Upsidedown, Fartherdown, Allthewaydown, and Subterranea (his home, visited in that book by Speedy). Other underground levels are evidently home to the Mangoboos and their neighbors, the Nomes, the Silver Islanders, and the mud people (also in ROYAL BOOK), but I have no doubt one of the other four levels includes Wonderland and Carrollgea! (And is even Oz underground? One might guess it from Benny's journey there in GIANT HORSE, but more likely she fell through a dimensional warp or some such...which, come to think of it, was also a possibility for Dorothy in DOTWIZ (and maybe even Alice, though the White Rabbit's hole would indicate otherwise). Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:03:02 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Oz I have finally returned from hither and yon (i.e. Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota and points between). I saw Fred Meyer last Thursday and Friday. He seems to be doing better, although he didn't get out of his chair while I was there. His face is much thinner than it was in the picture in the IWOC newsletter I found on my return. He is seriously taliing about attending the Oz conventions next year. He misses them very much. Peter Blystone is translating THE EMERALD RAIN. Fred had a letter from him he let me read. EMERALD RAIN is four connected stories that form a direct sequel to THE MYSTERY OF THE DESERTED CASTLE (the last of the Volkov books). One of the major characters in the son of Ellie (Volkov's equivalent of Dorothy). Fred also showed me pictures taken at his 70th birthday earlier this year. And we talked about his correspondence with RPT. I have a full week of Digests to respond to, so some of my comments may turn out to have been made by someone else in the intervening Digests, but I will just leave them, for it would be difficult to delete them, and my memory would not permit my keeping everything straight if I read them all first (that is MY memory, not my computers that is so limited). Gili: Quoits is the same as ring toss. You toss a ring shaped object trying to get it over a stake. The Scarecrow used his crown as the quoit. Chris: Attacks on DINAMONSTER are not against you or me but against Kenneth Gage Baum. I still think it is a good book,c although not up to LFB. Homer: I believe Gingemma is pronounced with hard g's. Gin (not djin)-gem (not jem)-a. Actually you shoun NOT pronounce the first to sylables like to English words "gin" or "gem" but sound to g is in "go." But I could be wrong. Tyler: The BUGLE sometimes does print negative reviews, but we try to balance them if possible, as was the case with WAS. Sometimes, as with DOROTHY--RETURN TO OZ this is not possible. Gili: I see others have commented on quoits, c'est la vie. David Hulan: I don't think either of the reviews of WICKED will be highly negative. Barbara DeJohn: I might want your review of WINGED MONKEYS for the BUGLE. Contact me at steller@pittstate.edu. Ozbot: There is a Lewis Caroll homepage on the net http:/www.students.uiuc.edu/~jbirenba/carroll.html (I an looking at the site right now, so I know it is accurate) Homer: You have touched one of the unanswerable questions. But in fact Eureka did NOT turn permanently pink. Sometimes she is purple. Barry: Geoff Ryman is the author of WAS, and his informant was not Hanibal Lector. Scott: Since the naming of cats has become a digest matter, my wife must be a world class expert on the subject as we have had close to 100 cats in the past 20 years. One I named was "Nimrod" because he was a mighty hunter (he hunted my toes as a kitten). Another named Ozian cat was Her Maltese Majesty (in LOST KING). Dave: SPOILER FOR CARELESS KANGAROO...................................... Laumer's Ozma is not a lesbian, but she did spend her formative years as a boy, and so is able to sympathy with with the Shaggy Man's hopeless love for Dorothy (and Polychrome's hopeless love for the Shaggy Man). END SPOILER.......................................... Ruth: I wish I had known about the convention in the Twin Cities last week-end. I was in Bloomington going to the Mall of America on Saturday and Sunday. I just missed seeing you and Phyllis. I just missed to Chicago Oz Fest last week-end. I arrived there on Monday. Personally, I had thought Edna Mae Oliver might have played the White Queen, for she sometimes seemed a bit woolly, but I would have been wrong and made a fool of myself (not for the first time). Well, I just finished a lot of digests and am exausted, and Nikki aznd Jamie want me home for lunch. Steve (back in Kansas again) T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 16:54:35 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-13-96 Dave: For the record, the Astaire/Rogers musical you refer to is THE STORY OF VERNON AND IRENE CASTLE. As far as I know, it's the only movie in which Astaire's character dies, although I wouldn't swear to that. (At least, of his dancing movies; I'm not sure about some of the ones he made in his senior-citizen years, most of which I haven't seen.) Yesterday I fortuitously happened to be watching the "Today" show on NBC (something I almost never do, but I was waiting at the car dealer's while they did a repair on my car, and the TV was on in the waiting lounge), and as part of their coverage of the Republican Convention they had a feature on the Hotel Del Coronado. And the longest single segment in it was one on a famous frequent guest: L. Frank Baum. I suspect it may have been triggered by the fact that the nominee is from Kansas, and it also gave them a chance to show several clips from the MGM movie, but they also showed a couple of stills of Baum telling stories to children and one of the house near the Del where he spent several vacations. However, they erroneously said that he actually wrote WIZARD in that house. I think he did write at least part of some of the later books in that house (I remember seeing a picture of it in Ozma Baum Mantele's talk at Ozmopolitan), but I'm sure he wrote WIZARD in Chicago. (So that ought to show up when they cover the Democratic Convention, right? ) They also said Baum designed the crown-shaped chandeliers in one of the dining rooms (or maybe ballrooms) of the Del; anybody know if that's true? David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:56:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 08-13-96 (Addendum) > From: Bill Wright > Subject: FW: Trivia > > Can anyone help Terri with this question? > >---------- > >From: Terri Currier[SMTP:nccofpdi@apk.net] > >Sent: 12. august 1996 18:32 > >To: piglet@halcyon.com > >Subject: Trivia > > > >Re: The Wizard of Oz > > > >Could you please tell me what the soldiers are chanting while guarding > >the witches castle? I know it's not "Oreo, oreo". (Eric, be strong, you promised you wouldn't respond to anything unless specifically asked until next week... Oh, darn, he's doing it...) This is one of the new questions I added to my FAQ, so I can say with confidence that they're chanting "O--Ee--Yah! Eoh--Ah!" This is from the screenplay, the version published back in 1989, edited by Michael Patrick Hearn. It's on page 111. --Eric "Clamming up again for six more days" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 22:02:08 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-13-96 Herm-- Thanks for the Munchkin auction info. You're right, some of those prices seem unusually low.... --Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:16:47 -0800 (PST) From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) Subject: Tees FWIW I'd be interested in a T-shirt, maybe more than one if economical enough. And the design mentioned of the YBR issuing from a computer screen I think would be singularly apropos. On the screen itself (assuming the YBR meanders out from near the bottom of the tube) I might suggest some sort of web-like representation (not exactly like a /spider/ web, but more like a network of contiguous hexagons, or honeycomb) to reinforce the WWW home of the Digest. Or maybe simply a cartographical (if that's the word I want) graphic of the globe to suggest the international nature of the Digest. Whatever the final design, it will be a challenge for the artist. In this case, I believe, the rendition will be everything. W. Baldwin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 19:24:33 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 08-13-96 (Addendum) One more time! Barbara DeJohn wrote: <> Could be, or maybe someone else came up with the name independently. I seem to recall a recent book by that name, and at the 1968 Democratic Convention a pig by that name was nominated for President by the Yippies. (But I'm told by those who were there that *that* Pigasus had no wings.) Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 19:05:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 08-13-96 OZIANA: Yes, the Club will mail subscribers the missing page. I'm not sure when. Web: I'm gonna dump AOL. I'll have Netscape access to the WWW as of next week (at school) and I just found out my TENET account will offer full access starting around December...for $30/year! Yippee! Ruth: So who do you think was R.P.T.'s informant? And do you know if Phyllis plans to ever attend another OzCon? I miss her. Dave: Don't beat yourself over the head about the gaff. I don't think it was serious, and I'll bet you'll never make that mistake again. It would be a good idea, instead, to remind yourself of all the good stuff you're doing. Stephen: I know you're lurking out there. Catch up on DIGESTS and tell us the "official' word about BUGLE reviews. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 21:23:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls The Barkleys of Broadway? I always thought they were chanting "O-E-O, Ya-hoe." Which means absolutely nothing. That's the way it goes. If someone makes a mistake and those who notice kindly ignore it, it usually turns out that almost no one noticed it in the first place. Don't worry Linda, your secret is safe with us. :) Briefly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 21:34:49 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-13-96 Re: Edna Mae Oliver discussion. In Jan. 1938 Ms. Oliver also was proposed as the Wicked Witch of the West for what became MGM's classic 1939 film of The Wizard of Oz. For what seems like a million similar bits of trivia (and a frightening number of typos for which I alone can be blamed), revisit the Oz Club's home page and check out "What's New" section. Jim VanderNoot has been working to code and post the chronological history of Oz I -- and a cast of thousands... well, several anyway -- have put together to give the public Ozzy facts for all manner of uses. I'd suggest you not download it; dreadfully long and no doubt will be regularly updated, corrected and otherwise "fixed" as all you eager Oz authorities set your sights on it. Dave and others: Thanks for the periodic encouragement on the Oz Gazette! I have 6 pages ready for the Autumn issue and a wonderful 2-page contribution to complete it that may take me forever to format. It's such a great idea (thank you, young Ron Brown) that I'll tell you about it in case I can't get it done in time. He's taken a Chinese restaurant zodiac wheel and replaced the usual horse, monkey, rat, etc. with appropriate Oz characters! It's a hoot! How I'm going to reproduce it in the Gazette is a challenge. But what a great idea! I have absolutely no contributions of interest to our young MGM fans and early collectors. If any of you have ideas or contributions, particularly one that will help me balance out the issue, forward them on. Barbara DeJohns "story tile" game is included and I scanned in artwork for 20 starter tiles. Not much else trickled in from the Digest this time out. Earl: I understood at one point that Oz on Ice is expected to be around for 4-5 years, including international touring. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 20:38:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim VanderNoot Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-13-96 =====> The Wizard of Oz on Ice_ is still touring and will appear in the Washington, DC metro area in September. It will be at the Patriot Center on the Virginia side September 18-22 and at the USAir Arena in Maryland September 25-29. Would some kind soul send me details on these performances, including times and contact information so that I can add them to the Ozzy Events calendar on the IWOC web site? Thanks, Jim ------------------------------------- Jim Vander Noot E-mail: jvandern@sam.neosoft.com Date: 8/13/96 Time: 8:38:34 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 21:05:21 -0600 (MDT) From: estelle@usa.net (Estelle E. Klein) Subject: Chant of the Guards For Bill and Terri-- I'm not sure if this is correct, but there is a WOZ trivia game on the 1989 paper placemat for Krystal Coca Cola glasses. One of the questions is- What was the chant the Witch's guards sang? The answer is- All we owe, we owe her. Hope this helps. Also,t-shirts sound great, but buttons can be worn on any shirt. rebecca and estelle ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 00:48:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Light Bulb Jokes in Oz? I just found this joke on the Net by accident, and I'd thought you'd all like to read it: How many Wizard of Oz characters does it take to change a light bulb? None, because the scarecrow is too dumb to do it, the tin man doesn't have the heart, the lion is afraid he'll get electrocuted, Dorothy keeps calling, "Aunty Em!" and the wicked witch keeps screaming, "flip the damn switch!" Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 01:57:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest David: Your remarks concerning the date of occurence of _Dot&Wiz_ do sound valid. My main goal when assigning dates to the first nine of the Famous Forty was to explain the lack of aging of Dorothy and Trot between the times of their first appearance and the times when they came to live in Oz. Since _Scarecrow_ and _Rinkitink_ do not mention Oz itself much, I assumed that this was a relatively quiet period in Oz history and I was willing to create a gap here in order to scrunch the first nine together. It might make more sense to reset some of the years, but there is the problem of Eureka. As you once said, kittens do not remain kittens for very long, and I am assuming that Eureka secretly followed the party in _Road_, so that _Dot&Wiz_ and _Road_ need to take place relatively close to each other, unless the word "kitten" is used as a token, and she is really not a kitten any more. This may shift a lot of the dates in the early part of the HACC, but it may make more sense and it would spread some things out somewhat. I'll look into it. Also, I'll send come comments about your essay in private. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 02:31:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Barbara: It would be wonderful if that was *The* Pigasus, but in all likelihood, it is not. The leap from Pegasus to Pigasus is not a difficult one, and many people could have made it. However, Pigasus is NOT in Public Domain, at least as he appeared in _Wishing Horse_. The Quake: It seems that there are arguements either way, but currently, it seems that Baum intended his earthquake to be the Great San Fransisco one, despite the fact that some of the details are a little off. It's been about 90 years, and my memory of those events is a little fuzzy. Polychrome: Uh, how can Tyler have been there when it was 63 years before he was born? Kabumpo: He's very tricky :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 14-Aug-96 01:13:20 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZMA'S AGE ( MY NOT-SO-HUMBLE OPINION :) :) :) :) ): Homer: >Ozma was described as a bit taller than Dorothy. But shouldn't she be a >lot shorter, since she is from Oz and pretty much a child? This is IYHO or course, since there are some of us who think Baum's statement that Ozma is in her teens carries more weight than Thompson's statements to the contrary. Indeed, since Ozma IS a little taller than Dorothy in a country of fairly short people, I take this as more evidence that she IS a young adult. I think Melody's recent remarks on the Digest in the question of Ozma's age are important and insightful enough to bear repeating: ========= Begin Quote of Melody ======= Here is a simple solution to the "Is Ozma a woman or child?" controversy. Haven't you ever known someone who was chronologically and biologically mature--yet still looked like a kid? Or at least younger than they really were? (Example: the actor who played the teenaged Vinnie on "Doogie Houser, M.D." was in his twenties). Ozma could be that way, thus the merry confusion about how mature she actually is. (I personally know a petite girl in her late twenties who still looks like a teenager!) Melody Grandy ============= End Quote =============== FRED AND GINGER: "THE STORY OF VERNON AND IRENE CASTLE" -- That's it! Thanks to those who E-mailed me with the name of that movie! THE GUARDS' SONG: Rebecca and Estelle write: >One of the questions is- What was the chant the Witch's guards sang? >The answer is- All we owe, we owe her. I had heard this too -- Is this right, or is it just a myth? OZ HISTORY: I'm looking forward to seeing Jim's "History of Oz" -- especially how it compares with the HACC! I am myself working on a "History of Oz" for my web site, though time and space will limit mine to highlights of Ozian history, and will shamelessly include some non-canonical "Hardenbrookisms" and "Grandyisms" ( if Melody doesn't mind :) ), e.g. Zim, the Seven Blue Mountains, the resurrected Tip, Locasta (the resurrected Good Witch of the North), Dan, the Magic of Everything, and the extended history of the Adepts. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 15, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 05:31:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-14-96 > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 08-13-96 > > OZIANA: Yes, the Club will mail subscribers the missing page. I'm not > sure when. What about those of us who bought a copy at the conventions, and thus aren't on the subscription list? (Yes, I'm one of them.) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > THE GUARDS' SONG: > Rebecca and Estelle write: > >One of the questions is- What was the chant the Witch's guards sang? > >The answer is- All we owe, we owe her. > > I had heard this too -- Is this right, or is it just a myth? It is a myth. I stand by my answer because of its source, and if it's inaccurate, it is at least DEFINITIVELY inaccurate. --Eric "AHH!!! I'M STILL ANSWERING!!!" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 08:37:15 -0700 From: wizofoz@okway.okstate.edu (Trisha Gedon) Subject: winkies chant Dave, Hope this will answer Terri's question from 8-13. I looked it up in my Wizard of Oz script. As the winkies march around the witch's castle they chant: O--Ee--Yah! Eoh--Ah! O--Ee--Yah! Eoh--Ah! O--Ee--Yah! Eoh--Ah! O--Ee--Yah! Eoh--Ah! Several years ago I also heard (or read somewhere) that the winkies were chanting "Oh, we love the old one," over and over again. Trisha Gedon wizofoz@okway.okstate.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:35:37 -0600 From: Richard_Tuerk@etsu.edu (Richard Tuerk) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-14-96 >> >Could you please tell me what the soldiers are chanting while guarding >> >the witches castle? I know it's not "Oreo, oreo". > > >This is one of the new questions I added to my FAQ, so I can say with >confidence that they're chanting "O--Ee--Yah! Eoh--Ah!" This is from the >screenplay, the version published back in 1989, edited by Michael Patrick >Hearn. It's on page 111. Folklore in East Texas has them chanting, "All we own, we owe her." Folklore also has Miss Gulch talking about bring a "damn suit" against Aunt Em and Uncle Henry rather than a "damage suit," which is what the screenplay says. The people who hear "damn suit" insist it's possible since _Gone With the Wind_ appeared in 1939 also. When I see the movie, I hear "damage suit." Rich Tuerk ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 15:49:05 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Today Show/L. Frank Baum/Hotel del Coronado Yesterday Dave Hulan wrote about seeing a segment on the Today show about the Hotel del Coronado and Baum's connection to it. In an article that appeared in The Theatre Magazine for 1909 (reprinted in an early 70's Bugle) there was a picture of Baum's house. It was from using this picture that the original house in Coronado was rediscovered. It is now known as "The Wizard of Oz" house. The owner of the house, Mr. Meade, became a club member years ago, but I haven't seen a directory recently so I can't verify if he still is. According to Baum family history, LFB designed the light fixtures in the hotel's Crown dining room. An article appeared in the Bugle for Winter 1976 (20 years ago! whew!) titled The Coronado Fairyland that gave some details of Baum's life at Coronado. The author's name escapes me, right now. I do know that copies of the article were given to the hotel and the Coronado Historical Association. When the article was researched the hotel was of no help (it has since changed owners) and now they freely advertise the Baum connection in their publicity, i.e. they show the 1939 on closed-circuit T.V. every night, there is an Oz display in their lobby, they have an "Oz summer" for kids, etc. etc. (which is great). However, I have no idea how it keeps getting mentioned that Wizard was written there, since it clearly was not. I was in the middle of a minor local controversy over this very subject about 14 years ago (but that's another story). As a side note, the San Diego Union/Trubune printed a special edition last Sunday for the convention--giving a history of the San Diego area, etc. The first person on the list of "famous local authors" was none other than LFB. (BTW, their facts seemed to be more correct than the Today show, as the paper said only some sequels to the Wizard were penned here....) I know this is probably fruitless to ask, but does anyone have a videotape of that Today show? Dave--thanks for reporting on it... Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 11:59:43 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 08-14-96 First, the supplement from yesterday: Barbara: I doubt the "Pigasus" from the game was inspired by Pigasus from Oz. The Pegasus-Pigasus transition, combined with the currently-common expression "when pigs fly", makes it a likely association for a lot of people. Eric: I've queried a friend of mine who's an avid Esperantist to see if he knows anything about the Esperanto versions of Oz books on the Web. No reply yet; I'll let you know if he tells me anything useful. Ruth: If we're talking literary inspiration, then I agree that Baum was probably thinking of the Frisco Quake when he wrote DOTWIZ. If we're talking Ozian history, however, then I don't think the two can be connected. Aside from anything else, the final quake as described has to be one that happened -after- Dorothy and her companions went through the warp into the Oz universe, because earthquakes in our world don't open cracks big enough for a horse and buggy to fall through. So it probably doesn't match up with any event that we know about in our history. That means that the rumblings that Dorothy's train was shaken by through the previous night are the sort that Californians feel quite often. Dave: I wouldn't worry much about posting Linda's not-for-posting message; it was harmless enough, and I'm sure she's not mad about it. It's fortunate, though, that if Zeus had to nod, he did it on a harmless message... On to today's Digest: Homer: I think we have to assume that the Munchkins Dorothy met who lived around the WWE's home were unusually short; the other Oz people encountered in the later books don't seem to be any shorter than normal Americans. We know that Glinda is considerably taller than Dorothy or Ozma (I don't remember just where this is said, but I have a distinct memory of it). And Dorothy is presumably considerably taller at 11 when she moved to Oz permanently than she was at 5-6-7-8, whatever age she was in WIZARD. That's a time when most girls grow quite a bit. Maybe Gingemma was short herself and put a "stop-growing" spell on her most immediate subjects so she could be seen as normal height? (This is borne out by the fact that her silver shoes fit Dorothy; most people's foot size is a fairly standard fraction of their height.) Rich: Unless Ozma is presumed to have aged physically between LAND and TIN WOODMAN, she was physically 14-15 at the start of her reign. That's still quite young, of course, for a ruler. The subject of my essay, though, wasn't how Ozma's governance compared to what one would expect of a teen-age ruler, but how it compared to what one would expect of a wise ruler. Steve: Welcome back! Estelle: Based on Eric's quote from the script, it would seem to make more sense that they were chanting (in the muffled sort of way those masks would have induced, and did when they were hailing Dorothy after she liquidated the WWW) "All we _are_, we owe her." (emphasis mine) It would also make more sense as a statement. If it were "all we owe", you'd expect the vowels to be "Oh-ee-oh", not "Oh-ee-ah". But it's pretty trivial in any case... Tyler: MOPPeT is that the events of all the books between WIZARD and RINKITINK took place significantly earlier than their publication dates. I think OZMA-EMERALD CITY all took place over the course of about a year, though I could accept a year's gap between ROAD and EC. I think there was much less than a year of lapsed time between OZMA and ROAD. And unless one hypothesizes that Button-Bright found some way to retard aging between ROAD (when he seems about four, despite the statement that he appeared only 2-3 years younger than Dorothy, who's clearly around 10-11) and SKY ISLAND (when he's clearly around 8-9), then if ROAD happens in 1903 or 1904 (which is the latest I can see it), SKY ISLAND happened no later than 1909, and SCARECROW can't happen more than a year or two after that. (We know Trot is older than Button-Bright, in both SKY ISLAND and SCARECROW, and we know she's ten in the latter book.) And Pigasus of WISHING HORSE _is_ in the public domain, though Pigasus of PIRATES isn't. At least, according to what everyone has been saying about the last five Thompson books being PD. Dave: If it's the same one that I saw at Ozmopolitan, there's no strong relationship between Jane's "History of Oz" and the HACC. Jane's is a history of Oz in our world - i.e., important events in the lives of the Royal Historians, publication dates of books and stories, release dates of films, that sort of thing. It didn't deal with the chronology of events in Oz itself. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 11:59:01 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: The chant > THE GUARDS' SONG: > Rebecca and Estelle write: > >One of the questions is- What was the chant the Witch's guards sang? > >The answer is- All we owe, we owe her. > > I had heard this too -- Is this right, or is it just a myth? One time, some friends and I were discussing this very chant. That version had been heard, as was "Oh, we love the old one" But one of our number, an MGM WIZ "buff" agrees with Eric that script simply had nonsense syllables in there. (Darn! Too late to answer the Irene and Vern Castle q., or "Pigasus". I hate reading these things late ;-) ) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:19:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-14-96 David: Oh, yes, it's true! Baum's crystal chandeliers are hanging in one of the main restaurants, aptly named the Crown Room (for the shape of the chandeliers), in the Hotel Del. I think the BUGLE ran pictures of those chandeliers once. I hope you get to see them up close and personal one day. They're fabulous. So's the Del. Richard T.: I'm not aware of anything that Michael P. Hearn has written about Mary Louise, although I've been fortunate enough to examine his notes at U.T. Pete Hanff should know. So should Patrick Maund. If neither of them responds in the DIGEST, you may want to e-mail one of them privately. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:53:23 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: reviews David Hulan: The Fred Astaire character certainly dies in ON THE BEACH. The "OFFICIAL" word on review policy: There is none. However I have certain guidelines. The BUGLE does not print slams. The policy is to try to find reviewers who have something positive to say about the book being reviewed. If a book is particularly contraversial I try to get contrasting reviews. Parrt of the purpose of the reviews is to let potential readers know enough about the book to decide whether they would want to purchase it or not. Therefore it would be wrong to misrepresent a book, claiming it was perfect if, in the reviewer's mind it was not. If a book has serious flaws these will be pointed out, but not dwelt upon, unless they seriously diminish the value of the book. The BUGLE is not as shill to puff a publisher's product, nor is it a tool of revenge to get back at a writer (or publisher) who has somehow offended a reviewer or editor. As it is known that tastes vary, the reviews should be informative, ant evaluative. Some books are very useful (i.e. UNEXPLORED TERRITORY IN OZ), others have a naive charm nad an innocence (i.e. EGOR'S FUNHOUSE GOES TO OZ). I like to get a wide variety of reviewers who can bring different areas of expertise to their reviews. For example: I asked Michael Patrick Hearn to review OUR LANDLADY as he is the foremost authority on the life of LFB, and Phyllis Ann Karr to review SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS OF OZ, BOOK 1 as she is a published novelist. I would be glad to have any one review for the BUGLE as long as that person does not have an axe to grind. Stephen J. Teller aka Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:27:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Proposed solution to Oziana problem (fwd) Carole, Jim, and Dave, Please use the following notice of how the Oz Club plans to handle the problem of the dropped page in the 1996 issue of Oziana: SINGRA'S SINISTER SPELL? Sharp readers of the 1996 Oziana have noticed that a page is missing! Truly it wasn't planned that way. However, we want you to be able to read the whole story, so we are sending the missing page to all who bought the 1996 issue by subscription. Any readers who bought copies at this summer's conventions should write directly to the printer to request the missing page. Please make your request by September 15 to be sure of getting a copy of the page. Copies of Oziana ordered after August 15 will come with the page inserted. Address your request to Bonnie McDonough, Johnston Printing, 711 Ludington Escanaba. MI 49829 * * * * * * * * * * I appreciate your help in getting the word out to subscribers and others who acquired the Oziana issue. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:31:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Homer and Height: I don't think that the passage in _Wizard_ should necessarily apply to all Oz people. There are many different groups/tribes/etc. in Oz, and they differ greatly in characteristics. I think that the Munchkins that Dorothy met in her first trip were simply smaller than average. Other groups of Munchkins that we have met (Seebanians, Ozure Islanders, Mount Munchers, etc.) seemed to be of normal height. Therefore, I do not think that being short is a trait common amongst Oz people in general, or even Munchkins in general. For example, the Munchkin farmer made the Scarecrow to be the size of a normal man. If all Oz people were short, then the Scarecrow would also be as small as they were. As for Ozma, her age is not universally agreed upon. L. Frank Baum himself described her as looking physically fourteen or fifteen. Other authors usually just describe her as a little girl (That can give her a quite generous age range). Others on the digest feel that she is physically eight or even younger. In any case, I believe that Ozma is of normal size for her physical age. Quake quaking... When I assigned years of occurence to the first nine FF books, Dorothy's age was the most important consideration. Current HACC theory is that Dorothy was five at the time of _Wizard_, and her combined visits slowed her aging down by two years. I also assumed that _Dot&Wiz_ took place during the great quake, but that is now under review. I have thought that there was less than an eight-year gap between Dorothy's first visit and her arrival there permanently, but the earthquake thing always stumped me. Other circumstances have created some wiggle room in that time, so I can take a better look at it. I still believe that Dorothy was physically 11 when she moved to Oz, and may have had her aging slowed by her visits to Oz. Steve Teller: Welcome back! Do you know how far Peter Blystone is on translating the last two Volkov books, which will form _Tales of Magic Land III_? Estelle and Dave: While not an expert on MGM, I believe that the "All we own, we owe her" is just a satirical myth. However, "The Simpsons" did a parody of this scene when guards were chanting "All we own, we owe". Dave: I believe that Jim's timeline will be a timeline from our world. That is, a history of the authors, illustrators and publishers. How the Oz books came to be written and the film versions. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 16, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 07:25:02 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission I am going to NH to check out my new house there and will be out of e-mail contact for a week to ten days. Then, of course, it will take me a couple days to get though all those Digests that will have piled up in my inbox. So, don't be surprised if I fail to respond for a while. Earl ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:41:28 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: Ozzy Digest David Hulan: People have been saying that the last five Thompson Oz books are in public domain? What reason is there for saying so? If I understood correctly what I've read about copyrights, the books that have been copyrighted since the new copyright law came into effect are under copyright until 50 years after the author's death or until 75 years after the date of copyright, whichever is longer, and the books that were copyrighted before then are under copyright until 75 years after the date of copyright. There are no doubt additional niggles involved, but would any of them apply here? Tyler Jones: whether the Munchkin farmer made the Scarecrow "normal" adult size or short is not so easy to say. I don't recall that any of the books say how tall the Scarecrow is. Denslow drew him (and the Tin Woodman and the Emerald Citizens and the Winkies) as short, as short as the other Munchkins. Neill drew him (and all the rest of them, Munchkins included) as tall. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:21:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-15-96 Okay, okay, all right, I guess I'll give myself time off for good behavior and come back now. Because I've got a LOT to say! First, "Harlan Ellison's Dream Corridor" is back. This is a comic book that adapts many of author and Oz fan Harlan Ellison's short stories into comic book form. It initially ran for five issues, but changes in the comics industry and Ellison's cataract surgery and heart attack caused some delays. It's now back as a quarterly instead of a monthly, and Laura and I got the new #1 yesterday. What makes this good news for Oz fans is that the introductory and linking sections between the stories are drawn by Eric Shanower. And in this issue, we even get to see Eric -- sort of. It's pretty funny actually, Harlan introduces him as "the famous Oz artist" (Ellison is also an Oz fan), and it sure gave me a chuckle. (WARNING: This is NOT a comic book for kids, there are some adult themes and language.) > From: "Stephen J. Teller" > Subject: reviews > > The "OFFICIAL" word on review policy: > There is none. However I have certain guidelines. The BUGLE does not print > slams. The policy is to try to find reviewers who have something positive to > say about the book being reviewed. If a book is particularly contraversial > I try to get contrasting reviews. Parrt of the purpose of the reviews is to > let potential readers know enough about the book to decide whether they would > want to purchase it or not. Therefore it would be wrong to misrepresent a > book, claiming it was perfect if, in the reviewer's mind it was not. If a > book has serious flaws these will be pointed out, but not dwelt upon, unless > they seriously diminish the value of the book. The BUGLE is not as shill to > puff a publisher's product, nor is it a tool of revenge to get back at a > writer (or publisher) who has somehow offended a reviewer or editor. How, then, do you reconcile this policy with the extremely slanted and biased review of the Books of Wonder edition of "The Patchwork Girl of Oz" that you yourself wrote in the last edition of the "Bugle"? While I don't disagree with anything you said in it (AND BEFORE PATCHWORKGATE ERUPTS AGAIN, LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN IN BIG LETTERS SO EVERYONE CAN SEE IT AND UNDERSTAND IT -- I DON'T DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING STEPHEN SAID IN HIS "BUGLE" REVIEW), only two paragraphs about the rest book and the remainder detailing Books of Wonder's editing of the original text and illustrations is pretty unbalanced, IMHO. > From: Peter Hanff > Subject: Re: Proposed solution to Oziana problem (fwd) Re: The missing page of "Oziana": > Please make your request by September 15 to be sure of getting a > copy of the page. What about those who may have bought the issue at a convention AND don't get this Digest? How will word get out to them before the deadline? > From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > For example, the Munchkin farmer made the > Scarecrow to be the size of a normal man. If all Oz people were short, > then the Scarecrow would also be as small as they were. Take another look at Dorothy's height in comparison to the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman in "The Wizard of Oz." Denslow consistently drew those two as being about the same height as Dorothy, in keeping with the Munchkins being about her size. --Eric Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:18:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Esperanto Oz & Winkie chant Eric: _The Wizard of Oz_, _The Marvelous Land of Oz_, and _Ozma of Oz_ are online in Esperanto as _Le Miranda Sorxisto de Oz_, _La Eksterordinara Lando Oz_, and _Ozma de Oz_ respectively at http://billboard.emedia.com.au/users/peterb/sorcxisto/ http://billboard.emedia.com.au/users/peterb/lando/ http://billboard.emedia.com.au/users/peterb/ozma/ (I notice that you used the spelling Esparanto in your posting to the Digest; that might explain why you were having trouble getting any information from the search engines. For what it's worth: the word Esperanto is derived from the Spanish esperar, "to hope".) As for the chant of the Winkie guards: why should there have to be intelligible words in the first place? The ultra-primitive all-vowel chant fits right in with other primitive elements of the scene (the quasi-Tartar warrior costumes with fur caps and flaring overcoats; the Gothic design of the witch's castle in contrast to the Art Deco Emerald City). Moveover, the melody the soldiers sing is based solely on the notes of a perfect fifth, which derives from the second and third tones of the overtone row and can be considered the most primitive interval in music with the exception of the octave. Incidentally, there's another primitive-Slav echo here, in that both the melody line and the vowel sequence recall the Song of the Volga Boatmen with its Yo heave ho! Heave ho! What's more, the deep, deep voices of the Winkie soldiers are generally reminiscent of Russian basso-profundo male choruses. Some interesting cultural associations here! I wonder if the film makers could have been playing off (or playing to) American anti-Soviet sentiments, which were certainly widespread in the 1930's. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:46:52 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-15-96 Eric: I trust you got my forwarded message about the URLs for the Esperanto Oz books. Robin: I've seen the chandeliers - I've even spent a night in the Del, and eaten in that dining room. I just didn't know at the time that Baum designed them. Steve: But ON THE BEACH wasn't a dancing movie, was it? (I've never seen it, and didn't even remember Astaire was in it, but it doesn't seem likely that it would be.) I still think the CASTLE movie was the only dancing movie where the Astaire character died. Tyler: The only person on the Digest I know of who thinks Ozma is physically as young as eight is Chris D., and although I yield to no one in my respect for his knowledge of Oz, I have to think that on this particular point he's unjustified. He cited GLINDA as a source for this, but when I asked him where in GLINDA, he said to read the book. So I did, all the way through, looking carefully for any indication that Ozma was eight or even ten or twelve, and I found nothing other than occasional references to her as a "little girl" - which, as I've said before, I've heard used for women up in their thirties in some contexts, and certainly for 14-15 year olds in almost any context. It's conceivable that I missed something from being caught up in the story, but since my whole purpose in that particular rereading was to look for evidence of Ozma's age, I doubt it. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:18:35 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: OZZY Digest Dave, I was so wrapped up in helping my wife with her art project that I overlooked the apparent existence of the OZZY Digest and what it must mean. I was refered here by Bill Wright, whom I contacted through his web page after a net search for OZ. Is there a mail list group of OZ fans that this is associated with? I read my first OZ book at age 6 and had completed the first 20 by age 10. My father was a fan before me and what I have is the books he was given. He was born in 1916 and received most of the books at about the same age I was when I started reading them. The books seem to date from about 1922-1935 and since the material quality was not high they have aged a little. We have recovered many of them as the spinebindings deteriorated first. (My copy of Wizard of OZ seems to be a 1903 Bobbs-Merrill Publication. Press of Braunworth & Co. Book Manufacturers, Brooklyn, N.Y.) What would be the significance of the coverpage title THE NEW WIZARD OF OZ? The spine just says THE WIZARD OF OZ. ^^^ I read them to my daughters but somehow they did not appreciate the fantasy as much as I. I reread them later to help understand the social satire behind such works as "The Emerald City Of OZ." I would love to find some OZ afficianados to talk to. Thanks Ken Hackney khackney@HUB.ofthe.NET Lubbock, Texas ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:33:43 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: copyright holder OZ drawings J.R.Neill Attention Ozzy digest: I am trying to find out who holds the copyright on the OZ books written by Ruth Plumly Thompson, specifically to get permission to use the illustrations by John R. Neill from those books after 1921. Reilly & Lee are no longer in business, and I am trying to find who currently holds existing copyrights on books like THE PURPLE PRINCE OF OZ,ect. on which the original 75 year copyright has not yet expired. Please respond to Kenneth Hackney khackney@hub.ofthe.net Thank you, Ken ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:52:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's and Tomorrow's Growls Well a friend of mine with a Netscape browser brought up OZ for me. There are tons of entries including those for oz (ounce). It is hard to tell what belongs to anyone? Could someone assemble a list that we could print from time to time in the Digest? Including address/author/possibly focus - topic - at a minimum? One we brought up had only pictures from the movie and took a long time to bring up. (Is this a modem speed problem?) David - Remember Astaire in Nevil Shute's "On The Beach?" It was his first real dramatic role and IIRC he dies in his sports car rather than wait to die of the radiation. It's a great book and the movies not bad. Robin - What is a TENET account? Can anyone subscribe for $30 per year or just teachers? I am still waiting patiently for Compuserve to provide me with web access using my Macintosh, sigh. I'm beginning to run out of patience, something I'm never over-supplied with. Hey "Eric The Clam" - If "All We Owe, We Owe Her," is a myth, what is the authoritative right answer? I rather like the myth! We can hardly take seriously something in a 1989 screen play...."O--Ee--Yah! Eoh--Ah!" indeed! Humphh - The "Today Show" with Katy Kookoo and Brian Gumball rarely get anything right. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:29:42 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Volkovian Oz In response to Tyler's inquiry: I believe that Peter Blystone has actually finished his translations of THE YELLOW FOG and THE MYSTERY OF THE DESERTED CASTLE, but that he is in the financial situation that he cannot afford to publish them until he has sold enough copies of TALES OF MAGIC LAND 1 & 2. Both of the Volkov books have been published by BEoO, but YELLOW FOG was in March Laumer's translation in which he changed the names of the characters to match the standard names (i.e. Dorothy instead of Elly); the BEoO DESERTED CASTLE was a somewhat condensed version because Chris had received some complaints the YELLOW FOG was too long. I cannot tell when Peter can get TALES OF MAGIC LAND 3 out, it would be very desirable in my opinion. There are no plans for a publication of THE EMERALD RAIN. This is being made specifically for the people responsible for Peter's receiving the original. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:24:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest The Chant: I believe that Eric and I are using the same source. In an aside, Iolo the Bard from the ULTIMA game suite sings "Ho eyoh he hum". The Quake (maybe) David's remark is valid. Normal Earthquakes at best only crack the earth a little. One possibility is that this was a magical hot-spot, or a weak point between worlds, and the quake opened the barrier a little bit. Not liking this, the earth cracked open and in fell Dorothy and company. On the revised HACC, which has not yet been published, there is a two-year gap between _Ozma_ and _Emerald City_. The reasoning for this is that it is unlike that Dorothy and Uncle Henry stayed for very long in Australia. One other assumption, that is also under review, is that Eureka remains a kitten throughout history. This may not be the case. She is not mentioned much after _Dot&Wiz_ in or out of the FF. She may be a full-grown (though small) cat, and everybody may refer to her as a kitten out of affection. If this is true, then _Dot&Wiz_ need not necessarily be paired so closely together with _Road_. I am assuming that Eureka sneaked (snuck?) along behind Dorothy and friends and when it was discovered that she was in Oz, nobody wanted to send her back to an empty farmhouse. The HACC-scrunching of _Wizard_ to _Scarecrow_ will give us a healthy gap between _Masquerade_ (whose date is linked to _Tik-Tok_) and _Rinkitink_. While some may say that Oz was a boring place during that time, others like Chris would say that there were plenty of adventures that we have not heard about. Note (as David already has) that this will also result in books such as _Sky Island_ occuring earlier than their publication dates, perhaps by three years or so. David: While I agree with you that the short Munchkins that originally met Dorothy were a special case, another possibility is that the shoes magically adjust themselves to the size of the wearer. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 21:20:29 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Melody >Though nothing was ever mentioned about Oz in the original Star Trek, I've always equated Spock with brains, McCoy with heart, and Kirk with courage. Does that make Counselor Cleavage Dorothy? :) :) Okay, Bear: The above appeared in the Digest a couple months ago, but--Troi is a New Generation character. If we could equate any of the STTNG characters to Dorothy's friends, yes, Troi just might BE comparable to Dorothy. She seems to be the best-loved female crewperson on the series. An easy equivalent to the Tin Man would be Data. Armus derisively called Data Tin Man in the show where Tasha Yar perishes. An old scientist takes it a step further on another show when he whistles, "If I only had a Heart" around Data. Why, Data was always plainting, "Just to register emotion--jealousy, devotion, and really feel the part..." The timid Barclay is the closest thing STTNG had to the Cowardly Lion. Though not a regular regular, he DEFINITELY could have used some courage! (One of my favorite shows is when an alien probe gives him superhuman intelligence. Barclay: "Computer, create holographic Neural Interface." Holodeck Computer: "There is no such device in our database." Barclay: "No problem. Here's how you build it!") In this one, Barclay remained a nice guy no matter how powerful he became. In contrast with the old Star Trek pilot, "Where No Man Has Ever Gone Before", where Kirk's friend distains and turns on Kirk and everyone else when he acquires superhuman powers. Barclay thought of his crewmates as children to be shown the wonders of the universe--and retained his respect for them throughout his mental transformation. Kirk's friend fancied himself a god, and his crewmates as vermin. Am I straying too far off the subject? Okay. But I'm stuck on an STTNG equivalent for the Scarecrow. Who on the show was looking for a brain? Indeed, in view of Starfleet Academy's stringent entry requirements, how could one get a post on a starship without a brain? Picard's curiosity and search for knowledge is Scarecrow-like, but he did not lack intelligence or belief in his intelligence. His problem was he didn't like children. Anybody have any ideas on who could be a STTNG equivalent of the Scarecrow? (Worf? Q was forever poking fun at his intelligence. "Microbrain," is one taunt Q hurled at the poor guy. But Worf seems too aggressive and uncaring about intellectual matters to be the Scarecrow's match.) Anyone out there have any ideas? >From Homer: Another question: Since Dorothy was about as tall as a full-grown Munchkin man in WIZARD, and assuming that all of Oz's people go by the same height as the Munchkins; were Aunt Em, Uncle Henry, The Shaggy Man, and other American adults considered giants? IIRC, Ozma was described as a bit taller than Dorothy. But shouldn't she be a lot shorter, since she is from Oz and pretty much a child? Homer: Good question! One I've thought about a lot. In "Wizard" the Munchkins, at least the ones Dorothy meets, are definitely described as Dorothy's size. After that, Baum gets hazy. At the Gate, the Guardian of the Gates is described as the same size as the Munchkins, but the Soldier with the Green Whiskers is described as "tall." In later books, "enormously tall." Baum seems to say nothing about the size of the Winkies and Quadlings in '"Wizard." In Denslow's drawing in "Wizard," Glinda appears normal-sized by our standards. Though he says nothing about Glinda's size in 'Wizard," Baum describes her in a later book as "tall," also. Again, Baum probably means that Glinda is tall by our standards. Or by early 19th-century standards. We know Oz has wildly varying tribes of people. Heights could vary from tribe to tribe. A real-life example are the tall Watusi and short pygmies of Africa. So, it is possible that many of the Emerald Cityzens (and Winkies, and Quadlings) are normal-sized, and Ozma can be taller than Dorothy. (In the Seven Blue Mountains of Oz, Zim the Munchkin Sorcerer is ironically very, very tall!) Dave: I don't mind compliments at all! (Nor well-meant criticism.) Robin: Please send that missing piece of Oziana! It must have the recovery of the Magic Belt, the wedding of you-know-who to you-know-who, the villain's just desserts, et al. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 20:33:57 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Hello everyone! It's been awhile-- but my week's been pretty hectic. The Great Power Outage of '96 happened almost a week ago, but my surge protector didn't. I now only have access to my dad's laptop, and I have three e-mail Digests (including this one) to catch up on! What's worse, it seems my posting for 8-15 never made it! Oh well, let me try again... Herm's Diplomacy-- Thank you Herm for a very intelligent way of putting diplomacy into the Digest. I suggest we put your ideas into Dave's Digest FAQ under something like "How should I respond to a post?" I mean, it can't *hurt* can it? Ozzy ties-- I found an MGM-ish Ozzy tie at a kiosk at a mall. It had small, scattered Tin Men in various poses and scattered hearts amid a black background. Ozma's Essay-- Which Dave should I ask? Did I miss a special Digest installment of the Ozma essay, I thought I saw something said that that might happen? BTW, I did e-mail Dave for a copy anyway. Should I have gotten it by now? Chris's Praise-- Thanks for the kind words about my Langwediere picture, Chris. (*blush*) NOTHING would make me happier to animate Langwediere in an Ozzy cartoon, but that might be very far down the road right now! If you *do* need illustrators for a book project, let me know! I'm up for anything if I can fit it to my schedule! Cool! Wonderland Web sites-- Thanks for all the info on the WOnderland sites out there. (We almost had a Wonderland Digest back there for a while, didn't we? Not that I'm complaining!) My own W-land site is 30% complete. For those who know, is there a inexpensive place to scan pictures, like a Kinko's or other place in the LA valley/Hollywood area? My other option is to use the workstations at school, but those are Mac's and I'm PC. Is that to much a problem if I save .gif's? Irwin Allen-- BTW, for those interested, the about 3hr. Wonderland live action TV special *is* out on video (for rent at Blockbuster and I saw one at Best Buy for sale) It is a fairly good reproduction of the novels, as far as televising things go. And it's a fun game to pick out all the guest stars. (Jonathan Winters makes a good Humpty Dumpty.) Someone pointed out that the Queen of Hearts visited Oz to meet with Ozma?! I hope she wasn't in one of her "moods" :) Maybe her confrontration with Langwediere in Ev got her frustrations out already-- "Off with her head, and her head, and her head, and..." WHEW! Well, maybe it's good my original post didn't make it through. It forces me to have my thoughts (and post) editted ahead of time! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 15-Aug-96 23:09:15 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ALADDIN: I know it's not strictly Ozzy, but I thought everyone would like a review of the new video _Aladdin and the King of Thieves_: ***** SPOILER FOR _ALADDIN AND THE KING OF THIEVES_ ***** ***** (AND A *SLIGHT* SPOILER FOR MY _LOCASTA AND ***** ***** THE THREE ADEPTS OF OZ_!) ***** (Note: For the sake of conciseness I have greatly simplified the plot description in this review.) This latest installment of _Aladdin_ is Disney's attempt (will it succeed???) to "End the Series" -- Aladdin and Jasmine finally tie the knot, Al implicitly becomes Sultan (or at least Grand Vizier), and Iago moves away. The story starts when Al and Jasmine's wedding is rudely interupted when the Palace is ransacked by the legendary Forty Thieves. To make a long story medium-length, Al follows the thieves to their secret hideout, and listening in on their meeting discovers that the Thieves' King is his father! Al meets his father, who it turns out only joined the thieves in a vain attempt to find riches for his family, and the thieves hate dad's leadership because he is so tenderhearted, so Al convinces him to go "legit." (This part of the story actually closely resembles part of my soon-to-be-published _Locasta_ book, with Locasta in the role of Al, Nan-Kerr the Cloud Queen the role of Al's father, and the Demons of Whaqoland the role of the Forty Thieves!) Through a series of adventures, punctuated by Al's fighting and circumventing the other thieves by turns, Al and his father set out and find the legendary "Hand of Midas", which will turn anything it touches into gold. But almost as soon as he finds it, Papa Al throws the Hand into the sea forever, for inadaquately explored reasons. After he attends Al and Jasmine's wedding (At last!!!), Al's pop goes off into the night for more adventures and treasure-hunting, with Iago accompanying him. As with Oz, I pretty much enjoy ANY _Aladdin_-story, because I like the characters, etc. so much, but this story left a lot to be desired. It was great to have Robin Williams back as Genie, but he plays such a small part in this story (except for comic relief), that it hardly seemed worth it for Disney to invest the money to get Williams! (Al doesn't even take Genie with him on his quest for his father and the Hand of Midas!!!) Also, while the _Aladdin_ animations are always fast-paced, this one went beyond that, and was downright frenzied! I'm not sure I caught HALF of Genie and other characters' dialogue! Abu and Iago (who to my dismay seemed to revert to semi-evilness during part of this story) also have trivial roles, and Iago's final descision to forgo the "wallowing in luxury" and the "palace perks" to go off and face perils with Al's father seemed WHOLLY unbelievable and out-of-character, and I predict in three days (five tops) Iago will be back at the palace, panting and crying for his throw pillows. :) As for the wedding, which is what I'm sure many want to see the movie FOR, lasts about two seconds, and then they fly off on the magic carpet. (I can't resist observing that Ozma and Dan's nuptual bash will be something much more worth paying 300 emeralds a plate for! :) :) :) ) So on the whole, this story was nice, but I prefer the original _Aladdin_, _Return of Jafar_, and many of the shows in the TV series, and if the quality of this story is the best they can come up with now, it suggests to me that maybe Disney is "Ending the Series" not a moment too soon... ***** END SPOILER ***** Now back to Oz... :) :) :) OZIANA: I need that missing page too, Robin! TOO MANY DAVES: For the record, I go by "Dave" and David Hulan goes by "David". OZMA MEETS QUEEN OF HEARTS: In the story in the _Emerald City Mirror_, Ozma goes abroad to meet with the Queen of Hearts and other rulers. The exact location of the Convention of Fairy Rulers is unknown ( NOT San Diego! :) :) ) "OZ ON CHARON" UPDATE: I got a letter today from Ray Bradbury offering his support for our cause. So far he is the only person I wrote to who has responded, but maybe this is a sign that the letters of support will start flowing in now... :) For newcomers to the Digest, "Oz on Charon" is a movement by members of the Oz community to create a "monument" to Oz on a distant world. When astronomer James Christy discovered Pluto's moon Charon, he wanted to name it "Oz", but he was overruled by the International Astronomical Society's name restriction for planets and moons to mythological figures. No such restriction exists for naming *geological features* on moons however, and in fact each moon in the Outer Solar System has a "theme" for naming its surface features, e.g. Saturn's Enceladus has the Arabian Nights for its theme, and thus has craters, mountains, etc. named after Aladdin, Ali Baba, etc. So now we in the Ozzy community are planning to petitioning NASA to, in their upcoming Pluto mission (probably in the 2010's), make Oz the theme for naming features on Charon. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 17, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:47:26 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: The Chant Perhaps the most interesting reference to Oz I've found (at least in the respect that it was the most unexpected influence) involves the Winkie chant--Metallica uses it at the beginning of the song "The Frayed Ends of Sanity" on their _And Justice For All..._ album. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 06:35:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Well, I'm back, but what does that mean? The nice thing about not responding to the Digest for nearly thirty days is that it gave me a chance to really read it, rather than read it with an eye for answering it. To be honest, there were a LOT of issues that had so little Oz content that had I been answering issues, I may not have said anything anyway. Plus, it gave me a chance to think about my relationship with the Digest and how I respond to it, and why I often seem to be attacked for defending the rights of others (Peter Glassman and Patchworkgate, Chris Dulabone leaving for a reason I can't even recall now). I do not regret one bit my standing up for others, but I still get upset at times by the reaction to my defense. Some posters here overreacted, IMHO, and attacked me and my position instead of providing a counter-argument -- or providing the same counter-argument over and over again without paying attention to what I had to say. For instance, in Patchworkgate (Dave, adding a question on Patchworkgate may be a good question to add to your FAQ), I NEVER ONCE agreed with Peter Glassman that the editing in "Patchwork Girl" was necessary. I was just as upset as the rest of you. Unlike some posters here, however, I did NOT see it as the end of civil-Oz-ation as we know it, I did NOT call for Peter's head on a silver platter (come on, everyone who was involved in that, admit it, this is not much of an exaggeration), and I did NOT call for a complete boycott of Books of Wonder. All I said was that it was too bad it happened, but I trust Peter Glassman to put out a quality product, and I hope this sort of thing will never happen again -- at least that's what I HOPE I said, it's certainly what I meant. Then, when Chris claimed he was being personally attacked, and had to leave the Digest, it reopened this wound and I lashed out. So what does all this mean? It means that if I am going to remain an active part of this Digest, there will have to be some changes. I do not think that there should be any censoring whatsoever outside of Dave's guidelines, so the changes have to come from me. So, from here on, these are the guidelines I will be using when posting to the Digest. 1) I will only respond to Oz posts. Sure, I can go on about a lot of other subjects, just like the rest of the Digest, but I choose not to now. We need to try to make this an OZZY Digest again, IMHO. 2) I will not post my theories, opinions, etc. Too much of this Digest of late seems to be lots of pointless gabbing about arcane continuity points in the books and other minor points. I understand that some people have great passions about these, but despite having opinions of my own I do not think these are a big deal, and I am willing to let others have their own opinions. 2a) If, however, someone specifically asks me for what I think of something, I will offer an opinion or theory. 3) I will defend people who are attacked. It's one thing to argue against another person's position, it's another to take it personally and attack the person. One of the biggest problems with the Internet in general, it seems to me, is that people forget that there are other people on the other end of the line typing in what you are privileged to read, and those people have opinions and feelings, too, which may be very different from yours. 4) I will continue to quote the original poster before I respond (unless it's very, very long and can be easily summarized). I've been criticized for this in the past, but too often people respind to a post and address it to the wrong person, or misinterpret what was said in the original post because it's not there for the responder and the readers to see. Quoting from the original post is my way of trying to overcome these situations. Yes, this will make the Digest longer, but IMHO it's more important that the Digest be legible and accurate than short. I will, however, do my best not to quote too much material from the original poster. 5) Finally, I will not respond to a Digest the day I get it, but I will wait a day now instead. This will allow me NOT to answer a question that a lot of people have already answered, thus giving us too many responses to one question in one Digest. But more importantly, it will allow me to digest (sorry!) what I'm going to say before I say it, and I hope in this way to prevent myself from sticking my foot in my mouth as badly as I did before my self-imposed exile. I know I'm not going to always stick to these guidelines -- I am human, after all, I mess up once in a while -- but I will strive to stick to them. I also hope that other regular posters here will think about how they post and change themselves if they feel they need to. Now, let's get out there and post! --Eric "I'm back, really!" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:45:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Yesterday's Growls :) Richard: With regard to the Winkie chant, you wrote: >We can hardly take seriously something that was written in a 1989 screen play. . . In his introduction to the screenplay, Michael Patrick Hearn writes: "The text of this book is principally the official shooting script, checked against the final continuity script and the motion picture itself." Here's a suggestion: why doesn't one of you who knows Michael Patrick Hearn personally write him a note asking him if the disputed lyrics are in the official shooting script, or if he was transcribing what he heard the Winkie soldiers singing? Also Richard: It's true that a search request under the word "Oz" will bring up more than half a *million* web sites! A much more efficient way to start is to go to Eric's excellent compilation of Oz links at http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/links.html ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:09:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-16-96 Hi Dave, Eric Gjovaag's question about how non-Internet readers would learn about how to get a copy of the missing page for the 1996 Oziana was anticipated by Carole Mackey, editor of the Oz Observer. She will adjust the end-date for requests on the basis on the expected date of distribution of the next Observer. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:06:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Question time Okay, now that everyone's come through on my last question (thanks, David, yes, I did get the info on the Esperanto pages), I have a few more. 1. I've laready asked Peter this, but I haven't heard back from him yet, so I'll throw it out to everyone: What is Books of Wonder's new address? I could have SWORN I kept the postcard with the info, but now I can't find it... 2. Does anybody have information on the 1997 Club conventions (dates, locations, contact information) -- or for any other Oz events next year, for that matter? The more I can say about these now, the less I'll have to say later, and the more lead time everyone will have. --Eric "Thanks!" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:28:09 -0800 From: Bob Shepherd Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-16-96 Did anybody catch David Letterman last night (Thursday night)? His joke went something like this...... "Did you know it is the 57th Anniversary of _The Wizard of Oz_? What perfect timing, to have it coincide with the Republican Convention. I mean, we have Newt Gingrich looking for a heart, Pat Buchanan looking for a brain, and when it's all over, Bob Dole will be back in Kansas!" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:02:39 -0400 From: Homer Well, I've recently bought Neill's trio of books, but I could barely get through Wonder City. It just seems like, when he started writing, something got lost. IMHO he doesn't describe new characters well enough, and brings a bit too many strange new concepts about the Emerald City. I also never thought that Munchkins actually had blue skin, but he describes them that way. Strangely enough, the picture on the dust jacket contradicts that. Neill just doesn't seem to care. He'll bring in a new and undescribed character, give it something trivial to do, then just take it out of the story. You may not agree, but I was very disappointed with the odd, unfriendly atmosphere of this story. And while on the subject, did anyone else who read this book get tired of the constant and irrelevent puns? Ugh! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:13:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: A truly bizarre theory of Ozite history Last night I looked up the Lurline reference in _The Tin Woodman of Oz_ and on the spot I created a new theory of the history. In _The Tin Woodman of Oz_ it says that Oz started off as an ordinary country surrounded by desert. Then Lurline passed over it, enchanted it, and left one of her fairies to rule over it, at which point Oz became a fairyland (including deathlessness and sentient animals). Usually it assumed that this fairy ruler of Oz is Ozma, but this doesn't square off well with what Baum had written previously about Ozma's history, requiring a bending of the statements simple meaning. But what if this fairy ruler wasn't Ozma? That would mean that there was an initial age of enchantment starting during the reign of Ozroar I (who himself may have been this first fairy ruler; if not him, then his wife Ozette), followed by an age of partial disenchantment later on, followed in turn by the Ozmatic age of reenchantment. The question is whether this First Fairy Ruler Hypothesisis consistent with what else is known about ancient Ozite history? (I'm not above overlooking something...) Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 14:46:26 -0400 From: Homer I made a homepage recently and I put the address of the digest into it, as well as a link to Eric Gjovaag's homepage. Is that okay, Dave and Eric? If anyone else has an Oz homepage (Tyler?) you can give me the address and I'll put a link in. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:05:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim VanderNoot A few days ago, I read several comments regarding the Oz historical reference material provided by Jane Albright and Angelica Carpenter and was a little concerned that no one mentioned having looked at them. They were added to the IWOC home page 1-2 weeks ago under the reference section. I hope y'all will take a look and return comments. I particularly want feedback on the format. It's designed with frames, but there's a no-frame alternate display that tested successfully on my browsers. If you have problems, please e-mail me the specifics. Thanx.d ------------------------------------- Jim Vander Noot E-mail: jvandern@sam.neosoft.com Date: 8/16/96 Time: 4:05:43 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:09:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim VanderNoot Regarding net searches - Try +"Wizard of Oz" as a search argument on Alta Vista. I came up with a number of useful things that way. How ever, be prepared for a number of entries for individual chapters of the Oz books that are online. ------------------------------------- Jim Vander Noot E-mail: jvandern@sam.neosoft.com Date: 8/16/96 Time: 4:09:36 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:26:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-16-96 OZIANA: Send requests to Bonnie McDonough at Johnston Printers for the missing chunk of OZIANA if you have a copy which lacks it. She'll send it to you, and you'll get to see a Ken Cope illustration on that page, too! Eric: I, too, am concerned about that September 15 deadline. I can only hope that the OBSERVER is coming out VERY soon so that the deadline will be feasible. The notice that appeared in yesterday's DIGEST will also appear in the OBSERVER and on the IWOC web site. Ken Hackney: If you're looking for a place with Ozzy discussion, you've found it. Welcome. I believe that Dorothy Maryott, Ruth Plumly Thompson's niece, holds the copyrights to the Thompson books. I'm assuming others will respond to your query about the discrepancy between the title on the cover and the one on the title page, but may I suggest that you buy a copy of BIBLIOGRAPHIA OZIANA from the International Wizard of Oz Club? It's an invaluable source of information. If you're looking for Oz books, both Herm Bieber and I are dealers, and we're both on the DIGEST, along with our e-mail addresses. Herm's in New Jersey and I'm in Texas, but we both ship all over the place, and we both work on keeping our prices down. Herm's prices are lower than mine; he's doesn't have to pay the overhead of a shop. Bear: TENET=Texas Educators' Network. Sorry. The deal is only open to Texas teachers...one of our very few percs. U.T. kids also use TENET, cuurently, but they pay more. Gordon may be able to use it, though. Dunno. If it makes you feel any better, rumor now has it that we may have to pay $60/year instead of only $30. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:48:30 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: help I wrote a long post covering many subjects, but it seems to have got lost because I was tracing Fairuza Balk in the ISLAND OF DOCTOR MOREAU in which she plays a half cat woman. The film is now due for release next Friday, August 23. If you want to cat a gliompse of it, the homepage is http://drmoreau.com/. Hopefully it will not cause the trouble it caused me. I had explained (again) my review of PATCHWORK GIRL, and welcomed Ken Hackney, told him about IWOC (recommended he check out http://www.ozclub.org/~iwoc) and other things I have forgotten. You were spared all tp that. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:59:39 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: MiscelaneOZ I wondered if anyone else saw the new FOX morning show, "After Breakfast " this past Wedmesday? A remote segment was aboard one of the Maid of the Mist boats at Niagara Falls, and Tom Cottonaro, the Mayor of Munchkinland in the '39 movie, and his wife, Liz, were interviewed. The are residents of Niagara Falls, plan to renew their marriage vows there next June on their 42nd anniversary. Oz is everywhere! Eric: Glad to have you back. Ken Hackney: Welcome. If you're looking for Oz fans, you've come to the right place!! Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 19:51:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Ruth: There was a technical error in the contracts that defined the copyright status of the last five Thompson books, so those last five are in PD. Tall and short: Overall, I see no evidence that Oz folks in general are all child-sized, as was the group of Munchkins that we met in the first book. The chant: While it is a popular trend to imagine the guards saying something relevant, there is no evidence that the syllables were anything more than nonsense. Perhaps this represents the total, blind thoughtless obedience that the Wicked Witch demands from her slaves. Searching _Glinda_ I perused _Glinda_ to search for any references to Ozma's age. In chapter 8, Coo-Ee-Oh is described as being older than Ozma or Dorothy, fifteen or sixteen at least. Coo-Ee-Oh is also referred to as a girl, so this appellation does not necessarily refer to a very young child. IMO, nowhere in this book does it state or imply that Ozma is a young child. Despite this, let me second David's remark from yesterday. In my honest opinion, nobody in the world, living or dead, has more knowledge of Oz books that Chris Dulabone. Far and away, he is the ultimate authority on textual knowledge of all 200 plus Oz books. He is a great asset to us all. Aside note: During my perusal of Glinda, I came across a reference in Chapter 2 that is interesting. Baum was discussing the Scarecrow and mentioned that, after the farmer placed him on the pole, "it came to life in a curious manner". I wonder if RPT got her idea for _Royal Book_ from this little passage? Kenneth H: Welcome to the digest! As far as a mail list, you should receive a copy of all the people who recieve the digest. I have never made a list of this, but it should not be too hard to do so. As far as I know, there is no difference between _The Wizard of Oz_ and _The New Wizard of Oz_. It was just a marketing gimmick, I think. Ken again: Of the nineteen Thompson titles in the FF, the first fourteen are held by her neice, Dorothy Curtiss Maryott. According to rumor, she is holding on to those very tightly and at best is extrememly reluctant to give permission to use any characters, etc. from them. The last five, _Wishing Horse_ thru _Ozoplaning_ are in Public Domain due to a contract glitch. I believe that Maryott also holds the copyrights for the two books that Thompson wrote for the Oz Club, but I am not sure. As others will tell you, copyright law is very strange and it is possible that the 75 year rule no longer applies. Congress is even considering extending the period, and the copyrights may NEVER expire, with control passing down generation after generation and they could be out of reach forever. This may sound a little pessimistic, but this topic has come up before on the digest in conjunction with Jane Austens _Emma_ being made into the movie _Clueless_. Non-direct descendants of Ms. Austen, who were born more than a century after she died, were whining about having no control over the book and not getting any royalties. Bear: Listing sites that relate to Oz has been partially done by Eric Gjovaag. Hook into his site and check them out. It is doubtful that every site on the internet having to do with Oz is there, but quite a lot of material is available. Downloading pictures is a continual headache on the Web. These images tend to be very large, and even with a 28.8 modem it takes a while to get them, especially if there are a lot of them on one page. Steve: Hmmmm, this means that if everyone on the digest bought copies of _Tales of Magic Land_ 1 and 2, then 3 could come out faster... :-) Oz on Charon: Hopefully, we can get some more support for this. --Tyler ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:00:24 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Munchkins, Aladdin, MGM et al Hi again! Some interesting topics this time... It may be that Baum and Denslow originally meant all of Oz to be inhabited by midgets, but that soon seemed to be restricted to the Munchkins (the version followed by the MGM movie), and eventually not even all Munchkins, with innumerable exceptions ranging from the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman to Cheeriobed and Realbad. Ususally when an Oz inhabitant is specifically described as short as a child, it's a Munchkin (e.g., the man who wrestled Zeb in DOTWIZ). The new Aladdin movie sounds good, if continuing to diverge from the original...if memory serves, in the original version Aladdin's mother was alive, but his father definitely wasn't. Another interesting follow-up was a favorite book of Al "Shaggy Man's Brother" Turniansky in his childhood, and I managed to track it down...THE LAND OF GREEN GINGER even has an Oz connection, having been written by MGM co-scripter Noel Langley. Even more strangely, Langley gave Aladdin's mother a name--Widow Twankey, which I believe dates back to a British pantomime version. It's certainly not an Arabian name, or even, fitting what Oz scholar Michael Patrick Hearn claims was the story's actual origin, a Chinese one. To be sure, neither are most of the Disney characters' names ("Iago?" Italian, I think, and probably taken from the villain of Shakespeare's "Othello." which long postdates the Aladdin story), but one expects such things there. (The Genie, like Merlin in THE SWORD IN THE STONE--earlier Disney via T.H. White--is a living anachronism...) And speaking of MGM, has anyone given any thought to who, if any, was the Ozian informant for the movie? It could be argued there wasn't any--that it was just a secondhand adaptation of Baum's novel (and play)--but it's arguably Ozzy enough so it had *some* informant. My first guess would be Scraps (explaining the constant lapses into poem and song) or even Polychrome ("Over the Rainbow"), but...what it it was actually an informant from (thank you, Dave!) neighboring Carrollgea??!! Maybe fresh from advising on Paramount's Wonderland movie? The slightly incoherent storyline (especially the Scarecrow's cockeyed geometrical theorem) might be due to the Mad Hatter, the songs could as easily have come from the Mock Turtle as from Scraps, and the Wizard's uncharacteristic pomposity sounds as if it originated with Humpty Dumpty. Not to mention MGM's inaccurate assumption that Dorothy's visit to Oz, like Alice's to Wonderland and Looking-Glass Land, took place via a dream... Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:55:44 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Magic Index-general questions > MAGIC INDEX (M.I.) SCALE > > Index Examples > -------- ----------------------------- > 9.9 ("All-Powerful" Genies) > 9.5 Glinda (Sorceress) > 9 The Adepts at Sorcery > 8.5 Zim (Sorcerer) > 8 Reera (Yookoohoo) > 7 The Wizard of Oz > 6 Gyma (Fairy) > 5 Gloma (Witch) > 4.5 Polychrome (Fairy) > 4 Ozma (Fairy) > 3.5 Mrs. Yoop (Yookoohoo) > 3 Locasta (Witch) > 2 Mombi (Quasi-Witch) > 1 (Magic-less Immortals) > On this scale, where you find Glegg, specialist in mixed magic? Or Ruggedo, once known as Roquat the Red, the Gnome King. The basis of his power was the magic belt which became the centerpiece of Ozma's personal power (and a conductor of magic as it could be used effectively by a mortal like Dorothy). Is there an evaluation of the magic implements of the OZ stories? A comparison of relative potency? Thanks, Ken Hackney ************************************************************************* "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long ...and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy." ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:00:32 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Copyright vs. Public Domain >David Hulan: People have been saying that the last five Thompson Oz books >are in public domain? What reason is there for saying so? If I understood >correctly what I've read about copyrights, the books that have been >copyrighted since the new copyright law came into effect are under >copyright until 50 years after the author's death or until 75 years after >the date of copyright, whichever is longer, and the books that were >copyrighted before then are under copyright until 75 years after the date >of copyright. There are no doubt additional niggles involved, but would >any of them apply here? > I understood that a copyright was 75 years, period, unless renewed by the family. By this estimate, books from 1921 and before would be out of copyright. This would include several (5?) of the Thompson books. Who actually holds the copyrights now on the RPT books? I really would like to get authorization to use some of the midrange illustrations by Jno.R.Neill (1922-1933) the last books I have. Thanks, Ken Hackney khackney@hub.ofthe.net ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:25:34 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Height: A Munchkin Standard? > >From Homer: > Another question: Since Dorothy was about as tall as a full-grown >Munchkin man in WIZARD, and assuming that all of Oz's people go by the same >height as the Munchkins; were Aunt Em, Uncle Henry, The Shaggy Man, and >other American adults considered giants? IIRC, Ozma was described as a bit >taller than Dorothy. But shouldn't she be a lot shorter, since she is from >Oz and pretty much a child? > Why should we assume that all of Oz's people are the same height as the Munchkins. The Soldier With The Green Whiskers was taller than almost everyone. Omby Amby was not midget (but was he originally from Oz?) What about Unk Nunkie? Ojo was about the height of the other children and Unk was much taller, equivalent to the Shaggy Man in height. I think we can assume considerable diversity in height. Kuma Party was not small. And are we omitting others like The Yoop? "Weight 528 pounds but he waits all the time." Even the Crooked Magician who created the powder of life turned out to be fairly tall after Ozma "straightened him out. Maybe munchkins are exceptionally small! Flutterbugets and Rigamarolls from Oz's "defensive settlements" are shown as taller than P.I.N.H.E.A.D.O.Z. (The Wizard of Oz). Ozma could therefore be almost any height, but less than Glenda who seems to be the equal of any adult in height (even discounting that hat). Regards, Ken ************************************************************************* "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long ...and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy." ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 23:31:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Todays Growls Melody - My comment about Counselor Cleavage equating to Dorothy was meant as a joke. :) :) In mathematics there is something called a "mapping." You are trying to map WOZ into STTNG. I'm afraid it isn't going to work perfectly. All art is derivative they say, but not on a 1:1 basis. This is way off the subject but I learned something fascinating today. The subject was brought up by the discussion of the height of OZ characters. Do you know why the African Watutsis for example are so tall and have long arms? The answer is they have adapted to handle heat. Dark skin and lots of skin area provides a great heat radiating system. Fascinating. My ancestors handled this problem in a different way. They must have stayed in caves all day and only came out at night. Sigh. Have a great weekend all, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:42:29 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff A day late and a dollar short, (I'm still catching up on my Digests) I hope that you'll all like this poem I dug up. It's not too Ozzy, but may explain what Bungle's pink brains are actually thinking about when you see 'em work (and answer What to name a Cat?) The Naming of Cats by T S Eliot The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter It isn't just one of your holiday games. You may think at first I'm as mad as a hatter When I tell you, a cat must have THREE DIFFERENT NAMES. First of all, there's the name that the family use daily, Such as Peter, Augustus, Alonzo, or James, Such as Victor or Jonathan, George or BIll Bailey-- All of them sensible everyday names. There are fancier names if you think they sound sweeter, Some for the gentlemen, some for the dames: Such as Plato, Admetes, Electra, Demeter-- But all of them sensible everyday names. But I tell you , a cat needs a name that's particular, A name that's peculiar, and more dignified. Else how can he keep his tail perpendicular, Or spread out his whiskers, or cherish his pride? Of names of this kind, I can give you a quorum, Such as Munkstrap, Quaxo, or Coriocopat, Such as Bombalurina, or else Jellyorum-- Names that never belong to more than one cat. But above and beyond there's still one name left over, And that is the name that you never will guess. The name that no human research can discover-- But THE CAT HIMSELF KNOWS, and will never confess. When you notice a cat in profound meditation, The reason, I tell you, is always the same: His mind is engaged in a rapt contemplation Of the thought, of the thought, of the thought of his name; His ineffable, effable Effanineffable, Deep and inscrutable singular Name. Cheers, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Friday 16-Aug-96 23:42:55 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things WEB LINKS: By all means, Homer, put my address on your web page! SKIN: Bear wrote: >... lots of skin area provides a great heat radiating system. This is also the reason why dinosaurs like _Spinosaurus_ and _Amargasaurus_ had fin-like skin frills on their necks and backs. Now the obligatory Ozzy tie-in: FWIW there is an _Amargasaurus_ (and other dinos.) in my _Locasta_. :) DANNY'S POEM: Thanks Danny for the poem! _The Naming of Cats_ is from T.S. Eliot's _Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats_ (and ergo, the Andrew Lloyd Musical _Cats_). I'm actually not sure of the copyright status of Eliot's poems, so I don't advise us distributing the text any further... :) INFORMANTS FOR MGM?: Rich wrote: > And speaking of MGM, has anyone given any thought to who, if any, was >the Ozian informant for the movie? ... >...what it it was actually an informant from (thank you, Dave!) >neighboring Carrollgea??!! Well, I asked the Adepts, and you hit the nail on the head! :) Several Wonderlandians, resentful of Oz's success and trying to give future generations a muddled image of Oz, got together and passed bogus Oz info. to MGM. The Red King provided the thing about Oz being a dream (since he thinks the entire universe is just a part of his dream); the portrayal of Glinda by Billie Burke* was suggested by the White King, who wanted to see a Glinda with an IQ closer to his wife's; the incorrect triangle theorem comes from the Mock Turtle, incorrectly recollecting his education in Sea-ometry; and the song lyrics come from the Caterpillar, Humpty Dumpty, Tweedle Dum, and Tweedle Dee, who all have quite an arsenal of poetry. :) * Instead of someone who SHOULD have played Glinda, like Anita Louise (Titania in the 1930's _A Midsummer Night's Dream_)... OZZY REVIEWS: Since I took up space with that _Aladdin_ review yesterday, I thought I should post some of my Buckethead Oz Book review that I have asked Tyler to post on his Reviews web page: LURLINE AND THE WHITE RAVENS OF OZ: This story by Marcus Mebes tells how Lurline enchanted Oz and instilled King Ozror as its first ruler. It is short, but well written, with good dialogue. One might argue the "Ozziness" of having the Greek Gods in the story, but Mebes himself states in the Preface that this story is myth an not necessarily "true history". Rating: Three stars SAIL AWAY TO OZ: This is a highly unusual Oz story, if you can call it an Oz story as it's not very Ozzy, IMHO. It is an Epic Poem about a man who is seduced by a beautiful but sinister woman, and who is "rescued" by Ozma and Rinkitink aboard the _Crescent Moon_. Although it was an interesting story, and I especially liked the references to the lyrics of Irish singer/composer Enya, I find it hard to regard it as Ozzy fare, since there's little directly to do with Oz in the story, and the subject matter (seduction, etc.) is hardly suitable for the kiddies. And since Mebes makes it clear in the intro that it is supposed to be a dream sequence, I can't understand why it's in the HACC. Rating: One star. RED REERA THE YOOKOOHOO AND THE ENCHANTED EASTER EGGS OF OZ: This story relates the further adventures of Red Reera the Yookoohoo (from L. Frank Baum's _Glinda of Oz_), and her search, with Prince Glenn and Kabumpo the Elephant, for mysterious magical Easter Eggs. This is an enjoyable story, although its shortness means that there's no space for some of the characters and events to develop as much as they could. The story ends way too soon! But it is well written, Anon E. Mouse's are excellent, and it is a book I recommend. Rating: Four stars. THE DISENCHANTED PRINCESS OF OZ: Written by Melody Grandy, this is undoubtably one of the greats among all Oz books! It revolves around a young boy named Dinny (I can't tell his TRUE identity -- That would spoil the story!), and Zim, a highly unusual sorcerer. None of the Ozian "regulars" appear in the story, but the new characters in this book are very dynamic and well-developed. The adventures that take place are exciting and imaginative, and the circumstances of Dinny's origin is especially insightful and significant to our understanding the history of Oz as a whole. Melody also did the illustrations, which are beautiful, whimsical, and very Ozzy! _Disenchanted Princess_ is the first of a trilogy called _The Seven Blue Mountains of Oz_, and I eagerly await the others! As good as many other Oz books written after L. Frank Baum are, this is the only non-Baum Oz book that I would rate as being of the quality and caliber of the best of Baum's endevors! Rating: Five stars. All of the above is IMHO, of course. :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 18, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 08:24:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-96 Dave, The last several of the digests I have received have been cut off in the middle of people's sentences. Am I the only one experiencing this? Barbara DeJohn ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 17:31:15 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: I'm back... but not for long! Hi Digest! I'm breaking out of my silence for an announcement: as this is now a sure thing, I think it's time to inform y'all that next year I will be living in the United States for the year. So phone calls and faxes and snail-mail (oh my!) whill be much more practical... Starting mid- September, I will be in a one-year visiting undergraduate program at Harvard.I guess I'll have a new e-mail *again*, not to mention a new snailmail address, but I'll announce those as soon as they're relevant. Meanwhile I'm extra-busy here tyying up loose ends and attending to all sorts of stuff before I leave...that's part of the reason I've been posting less regularly of late. Ken Hackney - Welcome! Glad to have you aboard! Eric - glad to have you back! Volkov books - most Russian editions of the Volkov books show Strasheela (the scarecrow) as being shorter and squatter than Ellie (Dorothy). I suppose Russian artists were influenced by who I belive is the first and best of the Volkov illustrators, Leonid Vladimirski - his Strasheela was very very short. Personally, I'm lloking forward to Peter Blystone's Tales of Magic Land 3". I already have 1 and 2, or I'd buy them now in support of the sequel... At least I know I am one of the people who will be recieving that translation of "Emerald Rain"! (I discovered and provided the original Russian book). I trust MPH's movie script, I believe he is an extremely conscientious scholar. It also makes sense that the syllables are nonsense syllables, because of the Song of the Volga Boatman tie which is undeniably there (check "Over the Rainbow" by Paul Nathanson for a good musical analysis, but I had thought of this independantly as well.) However, the "All we own, we owe her" is cute, and I suppose you can hear whatever you want to hear. The Winkies in the movie don't have as much of a personality as the book Winkies do. I have a great summer project (as if I had time for it) - to translate the book made after the movie version of "James and the Giant Peach". The publishers said they would also be interested in my Hebrew translation of "The Land of Oz" if and when I ever finish it (I'm a little more than halfway through, but only work on it in my non-exsistant free time), so I'm very happy! Sawhorse turned into a Sawdonkey, due to linguistic necessity. Will also have to find a new name for Ozma, because Oz in Hebrew is Utz, not Oz. Utzma doesn't sound to great: I'm considering Utzit or Utzia. None of them are as majestic as Ozma is in English. Maybe I'll stick to Utzma after all. Bye! Gili |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 08:06:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-16-96 > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's and Tomorrow's Growls > > Well a friend of mine with a Netscape browser brought up OZ for me. There are > tons of entries including those for oz (ounce). It is hard to tell what belongs > to anyone? Could someone assemble a list that we could print from time to time > in the Digest? Including address/author/possibly focus - topic - at a minimum? I have a large number of Oz pages listed in my FAQ, and I've just spent the past few days updating the list. I could post it here once it's complete, if people would like it. > Hey "Eric The Clam" - If "All We Owe, We Owe Her," is a myth, what is the > authoritative right answer? I rather like the myth! We can hardly take > seriously something in a 1989 screen play...."O--Ee--Yah! Eoh--Ah!" indeed! The screenplay I (and others here) consulted is the original one used to make the film. Believe what you like, but I am trying to seriously answer the original question, not spread any stories. (And if you were trying to be humorous, you have utterly failed to get the humor across.) This whole "Star Trek" conversation between Bear and Melody has got me thinking again about a short story I want to write some time: The crew of the "Enterprise" ("Next Gen," not the origianl) put on a production of "The Wizard of Oz"! My casting: One of the kids as Dorothy (either Marissa from "Disaster" or Clara Sutter from "Imaginary Friend," I'm still not sure which) as Dorothy, Reg Barclay as the Scarecrow, Data as the Tin Woodman, Worf as the Cowardly Lion, Capt. Picard as the Wizard, and Dr. Crusher as the Wicked Witch. I may never write it, but it would be fun. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 11:43:15 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests 08-16 & 17-96 Digest of 8/15: Ruth: As other people have said, there was some kind of contract glitch with the last five Thompson books that has resulted in their being PD. It probably had something to do with the fact that until the revision of copyright law in the '70s, copyrights were issued for 28 years, renewable for another 28 years. I suspect that the copyrights on those five books simply weren't renewed, so they went PD in the 1963-1967 time frame, before the copyrights of material still under copyright at the time of the revised law were extended to 75 years. The contract glitch probably involved R&L thinking Thompson would renew and Thompson thinking R&L would renew, so neither of them did - but that's only a guess on my part. Gordon: With the stiff masks worn by the Winkie guards in the movie, you wouldn't expect to be able to hear consonants in any case, so an all-vowel chant would be appropriate whatever words they might be singing. It's a fact of acoustics that consonants, which are high-frequency sounds, are much more easily lost than the low-frequency sounds of vowels. (Much as you can hear the bass from the idiot in the next car playing his stereo too loud, but don't get the rest of the sound.) Ken H.: Welcome to the Digest - I think you've found what you're looking for right here. (And if you post frequently you'll be the third "regular" named Ken.) The copyrights on the Neill illustrations in those books he illustrated that are still under copyright are probably held by one or all of Neill's daughters. Thompson's niece holds the copyright to the text, but I don't think that extends to the illustrations. I could be wrong on this, though. (I know that I hold the copyright to the text of GLASS CAT, but George O'Connor has the copyright to the illustrations. I believe that would be true of books originally copyright under the old law as well.) Bear: As I said to Steve, I never saw the movie of "On the Beach" (though I did read the book when it came out back in the '50s sometime). So I wasn't aware that Astaire was in it, or that he died. Tyler: Eureka isn't mentioned much in the FF after DOTWIZ, and as far as I recall she only has three lines, all in MAGIC: when she advises Dorothy to give Ozma some milk for her birthday, because it's the nicest thing she can think of (a sentiment which suggests she really is still a kitten, since adult cats aren't all that fond of milk); and two when the Glass Cat asks her where the Wizard is and she tells her to go away and stop bothering her. But outside the FF she's a major character in at least OZMAPOLITAN and SECRET ISLAND, and I infer in COLORFUL KITTEN (though I haven't read that one). And she seems to be a true kitten (though a well-grown one - probably 5-6 months old physically) in OZMAPOLITAN at least. Certainly it's possible that the silver shoes magically adjust to the size of the wearer. In fact, it's more likely than not. But at least there's no contradiction of the theory that Gingemma was unusually short, and might have had the responsibility for the first Munchkins Dorothy met being so short as well. Danny: You should have gotten a copy of the Ozma essay; I see I got an E-mail from you requesting it on 8/5, and I'm sure I sent one off immediately. I'll send you another copy after I finish commenting on the Digests. Dave: Glad to hear that Bradbury is supporting our effort to get Oz-named features on Charon. I hope there are a few more big names who'll join in. Digest of 8/17: Homer: Alas, WONDER CITY is a pretty bad Oz book, and unfortunately SCALAWAGONS isn't much better. (I personally think it's a little better, but Steve Teller for one disagrees.) Quite a few of the non-FF books I've read are better than either. Neill's third and fourth books - the FF LUCKY BUCKY and the recently-published RUNAWAY - are much better, though still not as good as most of the FF. (Though I'd take either one over ROAD, COWARDLY LION, OZOPLANING, or HIDDEN VALLEY, and possibly a few others.) Jim: I didn't look at the historical information because I'm quite sure that I don't know anything about the this-world history of Oz that would let me spot any errors, but if you also want comments on the format then I'll try to take a look sometime this weekend. Rich: I think it's not that the story of Aladdin had a Chinese origin, but that in the original story (from The Thousand Nights and a Night) Aladdin and his mother lived in China and the story took place there, though Aladdin is an Arabic name. However, there were quite a few Arabs in China in those days; there was active trade between the 'Abassid Caliphate and China during the T'ang and Sung Dynasties, both overland along the Silk Route and by sea to Canton. So a family of Arab origin in China isn't improbable. Ken H.: On the M.I. scale I'd put Glegg around a 3; Roquat, while he still had the Magic Belt, would have been around an 8, but after he lost it would drop to about a 5. (And then of course to a 1 after TIK-TOK.) Not that I agree entirely with Dave's ratings of typical magic-workers. It seems unlikely, for instance, that Gloma was more powerful than Locasta, or Locasta's kiss couldn't have protected Dorothy from Gloma's magic. And the Adepts, at least as they appear in GLINDA, don't seem to be as powerful as the Wizard; they appear to be more in the 5-6 range than 9. (But maybe they'd been weakened by being fish so long and recovered afterward - I eagerly await the chance to read Dave's book to see.) None of the Thompson books have gone PD because of exceeding the 75-year limit yet, though ROYAL BOOK will as of the end of this year. But the last five went PD before the new law was passed, because for whatever reason the original 28-year copyright wasn't renewed. (This happened to a lot of Edgar Rice Burroughs' books as well, incidentally.) I think there's a consensus that Omby Amby and the Soldier with the Green Whiskers are the same person, though I've never been sure of that myself. It's true that in DOTWIZ the Wizard asks Omby Amby if he didn't once have green whiskers, but if he was the Soldier from WIZARD and later books he certainly behaves very differently in OZMA. Omby Amby shows considerable courage in that book, and also seems reasonably intelligent in EMERALD CITY, which is the only other book where he has any significant role under that name. The Soldier with the Green Whiskers, on the other hand, seems to have very little of either courage or intelligence when he appears under that name (although it's true he's the one who advises Dorothy to go to Glinda at the end of WIZARD). Also, Dorothy shows no signs of recognizing him, or vice versa, in OZMA, although you'd think they'd make some acknowledgement of a previous meeting. And it's O.Z.P.I.N.H.E.A.D., actually. :-) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 09:40:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-96 Dave, In the last several Ozzy Digests there have been a number of conjectures about duration of copyrights in the Oz books. I thought an informal history of the copyright situation might be helpful to those interested. Until the 1976 copyright act passed, the Oz books were governed by the provisions of the 1909 law. That law provided that a work published with a correct U. S. Copyright notice on its title page or the verso of the title page and duly registered was protected for a term of twenty-eight years. During the twenty-eighth year, the copyright could be renewed for one last period of twenty-eight years. Failure to place the copyright notice in the right position or the right form generally resulted in the work's being automatically in the public domain. Failure to renew during the proper time frame also placed the work in the public domain. In 1962 the Congress began extending subsisting copyrights because it was beginning work on a new copyright law and expected to provide for longer terms of protection than had been permitted earlier. Thus works that would otherwise have slipped into the public domain that year were automatically extended. The original provision requiring renewal still prevailed, so filing for renewal was still necessary to extend a first-term copyright. According to family tradition, Ruth Plumly Thompson, recognizing that her Oz titles had been out of print for a number of years, saw no advantage to continuing to pay fees and file renewal forms and the last five of her titles were allowed to enter the public domain. The copyright records indeed confirm that no renewals were filed for The Wishing Horse of Oz and later Thompson titles. All the earlier titles still protected by copyright in 1962 continued to have protection (if renewed) until the new copyright law went into effect in 1978. The new law granted protection for works originally published before 1976 (and properly renewed) for a maximum of 75 years from original date of publication. However, renewal of first-term copyrights first registered under the older law was still required to protect them. To simplify the expiry date for all such works, the new law provided that such works would be protected through December 31 of the last year of protection. The records of the Copyright Office in the Library of Congress are open to the public. The Copyright Office will also provide searches for copyright renewal, including renewal status, for a fee. There are also fee-for-service pritvate searchers available. It is always wisest to verify the status of a specific work if you are at all concerned about whether it is still protected by copyright. The records of the Copyright Office have been maintained in various ways through the decades. The earliest records are in great ledger books, later records are in card files, and more recent records are compurized. Unfortunately, there is no single place to look for authoritative information on an individual copyright. Even when a reasonable search has indicated that a work is in the public domain, there have been occasions when the Copyright Office discovered that work was still protected by copyright. In such instances, future publication of a protected work may be stopped, although the courts have generally not assessed penalties against the infringer. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 14:33:00 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-96 Thanks everyone for the cat name suggestions! Some were very creative. >From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN >Subject: Scott's Cat > >Scot, here is a short list of possible names for your cat: >Peaches Muffy Fluffy >Bud Hairball Mac >Killer Shredder Newt >Claws Shedorama Spazz If I chose "NEWT," I might be tempted to kick it now and then, and that would certainly be a bad thing. sdc ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 14:27:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim VanderNoot Eric: BOW's 800 number certainly hasn't changed. I'm sure they can give you the address. Re: Wonder City. In all fairness to Neill, I understand that much of the muddiness of this book is the fault of the editors. I do agree. There was much that I didn't like about it, but some aspects of it are quite wonderful. Jenny's initial encounter with Siko Pompus and the concept of the turnstyle are great. And it does have some of Neill's finest art. Jim ------------------------------------- Jim Vander Noot E-mail: jvandern@sam.neosoft.com Date: 8/17/96 Time: 2:27:34 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 18:14:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Golly Father Eric - Thanks for the keen sermon. Moving right along.... Gordon (and Tyler) - Thanks for the WWW tip - I'll try that when I can connect... Oh, and just call me Bear.... Bob Shepard - We have sort of a rule on the Digest about making overt political comments. If that is no longer the case, Dave, get ready to hear about a certain wicked witch and her husband.... Dave - Thanks for the review of THE DISENCHANTED PRINCESS OF OZ. I just purchased a copy and will move it up in my cue after I finish HT. How can I pass up five stars? Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 19:08:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Eric and digests: Eric has returned from his "vacation", and I welcome his return. I have noticed the size of the digests increasing, but that can be a good thing. I would like to second Eric's request. I realize that many of us (myself included) have many other interests and often they converge with our interest in Oz, but we really should work to make this an "Ozzy" digest. Homer: The Neill books have been discussed before, with the same reaction by many people, although some people enjoyed them. Speaking for myself, I did not much care for them either. They were poorly told stories. I also disagreed with his turning each quadrant into a solid block of color (skin, hair, the air itself, etc.). While I do not like to make note of "the worst Oz books", these are them, IMHO. Aaron: I was perusing _TIn Woodman_ to find the story of Ozian history, chapter 12 for those interested, and I came across something in chapter 2. Woot was listening to the Tin Woodman's story of how he became tin, and he seemed very suprised that the Tin Woodman did not die as the axe chopped off various parts of his body. This seems to indicate that total deathlessness is a rather recent phenom- enon. If it had been around for centuries, then Woot would have been ingrained in the knowledge that nobody could ever die. The fairy that Lurline left was probably not Ozma. Her mortal history is pretty well defined. She was born the daughter of Pastoria, who was then the ruler of Oz. In _Tin Woodman_, Baum says that from "that moment on", nobody ever grew old or died. This is contradicted in _Road_ and _Patchwork Girl_, where there are references to dying and growing up. Later, of course, Thompson wrote that people could age whenever they wanted to. I theorized that Baum originally thought that people did not age at all, since they aged so slowly. It was only later authors, after decades of information, that discovered that aging was slow and voluntary. Evidence from _Yellow Knight_ indicates that Lurline's enchantment must have ocurred at least 700 years ago, possibly longer. A mistake that many people make, IMHO, is that the enchantment was complete and perfect the instant that Lurline flew over the Land. There is too much contradictory (and sometimes conflicting) evidence to support this, so I have come up with a story that explains most (if not all). Note that the idea of Oz slowly becoming a fairyland, timed for completion upon the ascension of Ozma to the throne, is not my idea, but I fully agree with it. 1. Lurline, a long long time ago in a Galaxy far far away, flew over what we know of as Oz and caused it to become a fairyland. The decision and spell were made in haste, however, and it turned out that the journey from a regular land to an enchanted fairyland. 2. After realizing the complexity of the undertaking, and the fact that several centuries would be required for the whole thing to come together, Lurline decided to make Ozroar and his family the rulers. Every couple of generations, a fairy would be born into this line and rule for a time. This would help the spell finish faster. 3. Centuries (and several fairies) passed. The tradition in Ozroars family of putting "Oz" or "Ozma" in the ruler's name continued, so there may have been many Ozmas ruling at different times, but only one is OUR Ozma. Lurline plans to have the fairyland ready at a certain time, and the REAL Ozma is born to coincide with this. 4. Ozma is captured and enchanted by Mombi. This throws things totally out of whack. The spell is confused and begins to do different things in different places. Some people age and die, some do not, certain parts of the land become more magical than others, etc. 5. Ozma is restored and the spell finally begins to get back on track. It is possible that it took several years after Ozma's return for things to get to way they should have been. There are bits and pieces of lore scattered in and out of the FF, and it takes a lot of clever thinking to meld them all into one whole. This is only a skeleton, and it may not be whole or completely accurate. The work goes on. Homer: Go ahead and put a link to my page from yours. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tyler_jones A new HACC will soon be posted, as will Dave's reviews. Ken: You must have gotten that magic scale from Dave's FAQ or his web page. This is an admittedly sketchy list, since we so rarely get to see the mechanics of magic, and it is hard to judge who is more powerful than someone else. Rug seems to have some magic power aside from the magic belt, but this may have been taken away from him at the end of _Tik-Tok_. One of the arguements for putting Ozma so far down on the list is that almost all of her magic seems to come from the magic belt. In only a very few cases does Ozma do magic with something else. Glegg is a hard question, since we saw him so briefly and only got a glance at his box of mixed magic. I once sent Bill Wright a list of magical implements for his web page, but I did not include a discussion of their relative strength. THe problem here is that, especially later in the series and beyond the FF, the vast majority of magic items are mmostly the same: They grant wishes. We have pills that grant wishes, powders that grant wishes, emeralds that grant wishes, buttons that grant wishes, baskets that grant wishes, a ring that, well, I won't what the ring does, but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out. There is really no way to differentiate these things. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 23:09:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Neill's Oz books 1) Homer, it wasn't the punning in _The Wonder City of Oz_ that bugged me so much as Neill's winning the Gratuitous Overuse of the Word "Oz" Award in the chapter describing Ozma's birthday party. ***WARNING: PARTIAL SPOILER FOR _THE ICE KING OF OZ_ 2) Kenneth, as far as I can tell the scale of magic needs to be split into a number of scales, each dealing with a seperate skills. Mombi, for example, ranks high on transformations and illusions, but low on everything else except for maybe mental magic. The Wicked Witch of the West, in contrast, probably invested most of her magical study time in control magic (remember the bees, wolves, and crows?) and not much else, seeing that 1) she didn't even consider transforming Dorothy and co., and 2) the only transformation I know her to have done based on historically-accurate material, that of Flicker the Candle-Maker (from _The Ice King of Oz_) was severely botched (Jellia Jamb broke the spell paritially by lighting the candle he had be transformed into). ***END SPOILER*** 3) Dave, I was under the impression that on dinosaurs backspins (as well as vertical plates) were more for sexual advertisement (pardon the terminology, people) than thermoregulation. (See Dr. Robert Bakker's _The Dinosaur Heresies_.) Also, what is this _Amargasaurus_? Somehow I don't remember that one... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 18-Aug-96 01:51:04 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZZY FILE ARCHIVE: I have decided to start an archive of important Oz files that I have gathered. I may post them to my web page eventually, but for now I will just have them on my Hard Drive for anyone who wants them. Here's what I have so far: Copy_Law.txt -- Peter Hanff's post from today outlining Copyright law MOPPeTs.txt -- The MOPPeTs of Digest members (feel free to add to this!) Ozzy_FAQ.txt -- The Ozzy Digest FAQ Oz_Guru.txt -- "The Guru of News" An odd Internet story with many Oz refernces Palace.txt -- Melody's excellent guided tour of Ozma's palace and garden Pluto.txt -- What the "Oz on Charon" campaign is all about Also, Ozzy Digests for the current month (for back issue, you should still E-mail Tyler for he's the Royal Digest Archiver of Oz. And Coming Soon: Tyler's Seven (or is Five?) Ages of Oz ( Could re-post this for me, Tyler? :) ) My History of Oz with associated Oz books referenced Others??? (I'm open to requests) CLINTON AND GINGRICH AND DOLE, OH MY!: Bear wrote: >Bob Shepard - We have sort of a rule on the Digest about making overt political >comments. If that is no longer the case, Dave, get ready to hear about a >certain wicked witch and her husband.... My rule about politics on the Digest is that if there's a definite Oz reference involved, I'll permit it, e.g. if Bear wants to point out who is depicted as Bastinda on a poster in Mary Matalin's office, I'll say okay that, but any political comments/infighting with no Ozziness in it I won't allow. ( This also includes "forced" Ozzy statements, e.g. "Saddam Hussein is a Silly OzBul" I won't include, however true it may be. :) ) DINOS (AGAIN!): Aaron wrote: >3) Dave, I was under the impression that on dinosaurs backspins (as well >as vertical plates) were more for sexual advertisement (pardon the terminology, >people) than thermoregulation. (See Dr. Robert Bakker's _The Dinosaur >Heresies_.) This is Dr. Bakker's MOPPeT. :) While some experts go along with it, some other scientests think it unlikely because there is no sign of sexual dimorphism in these creatures (usually a sexual attraction device, like the peacock's tail, is not possesed by the other sex). But it depends on which theory you prefer... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 19, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 06:56:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-96 > From: Homer > > I made a homepage recently and I put the address of the digest into it, as > well as a link to Eric Gjovaag's homepage. Is that okay, Dave and Eric? I have already given blanket permission for any and all Digest readers with a home page to link to mine, provided that I am told about the page and given permission to link to it. > From: RMorris306@aol.com > Subject: Munchkins, Aladdin, MGM et al > > And speaking of MGM, has anyone given any thought to who, if any, was > the Ozian informant for the movie? Why in the WORLD do we need to figure THIS out? Yhis has got to be one of the most ludicrous questions ever asked on the Ozzy Digest! It is WELL documented that the script was based on the book that Baum wrote, but that it was Hollywood-ized. Everyone, how many times have you been excited about seeing a movie version of a favorite book, only to be disappointed by the changes Hollywood made? Like it or not, that's what happens. Even the most faithful adaptation I've ever seen (the 1984 Michael Radford production of "1984") made a few small changes. Considering how many REALLY weird changes were suggested, written, then rejected, we should be grateful MGM got it as right as they did! --Eric "Gee, maybe everyone WON'T be so glad to have me back after all" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 10:34:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: An ST:TNG Production of _The Wizard of Oz_? Eric, wouldn't Dr. Crusher make a better Glinda than a Bastinda? One of the Duras sisters might work in the Bastinda role, though I don't think they could reasonably be involved in the production... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 09:36:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-96 Tyler: I like your timeline. Makes sense and "explains" discrepancies in a satisfying manner. Gili: About Utzma. What's the Hebrew word for "mother"? Would a diminutive form work as a suffix for "Utz"? It'd be nice if Baum's pun could be retained. Convention Dates: Dunno the rest, but Winke '97 will be July 11-13. Non-Oz Comments on the DIGEST: I *like* 'em! Am I the only one? I know this is an Ozzy forum, but one of the joys of it seems to be that many of us have become sort of pen pals on it, and the exchange of ideas, both Ozzy AND non-Ozzy has been delightful, entertaining, and often informative. I like comments about "ignoramus" and stuff about the origins of Aladdin. This DIGEST is a forum whose contributors have *very* active minds. Many, if not most, of the contributors are extremely intelligent. The digressions actually reinforce the truth behind this statement. I'm sure no one wants a course of brain theory here, but one thing from it may explain why there are so many digressions: most "above-average" (BIG quotation marks there, folks!) minds make conceptual connections at such a rapid rate that these connections are not always apparent. In other words, your synapses are firing faster than most folks'--didja know we can now guess with remarkable accuracy how intelligent a baby will be as an adult by measuring synaptic firing time?--and what seems to be an unrelated comment on your part may be very related indeed. Also, and perhaps more relevantly, so many of us have kindred interests that the non-Ozzy commentary intrigues us, too. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 12:38:41 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuf Homer-- With Neill's Wonder City, I agree most wholeheartedly with you. (I think the Digest had a series of discussions on this a while back.) For me, once I got it in my mind that the Wogglebug must have been Neill's informant, I said "OOOH! *Now* I get it!" And I enjoyed the rest of the story. Oz Comics-- If Ozma is the fulfillment of Oz's enchantment, what happens if she is removed from the throne? I just got the bookshelf collections of the early "OZ" comics in the mail. Actually, for those who would pooh-pooh this series, I want to recommend it! With all the recent talk of the history of Oz and all that, this series takes the "ageless/deathless" theory associated with Ozma's divine right, and pushes it even further. **TEASER for Caliber Press' OZ*** This series takes place in current times, but when a trio of teenagers accidently visit Oz, they find a fairyland unlike any we've seen. The Nome King (curiously, it's Kaliko, not Ruggedo) has actually succeeded in overtaking Oz. Ozma has been usurped for ten years, and the fairyland has lost most of its enchantment. The Scarecrow, Lion, and Tin Man have been enchanted to be agents of the Nome King himself, and only a band of Freedom Fighters (among them Tiktok, Wogglebug, Jack Pumpkinhead, and a Hammerhead) stand in their way. NOTE-- Although this Oz series continues the Oz series in a logical (intelligent and creative!) and Historically Accurate way, this is not a "cute" Oz, and there is death and ugliness. **End Teaser** Tin Woodman-- Oh, FWIW, Aaron and others, I think the Tin Woodman, as an accurate source of information, (in his self-titled book) may be questionable in the first place. Not only are we getting this information filtered from many sources (from Baum from Dorothy from Woot) but remember, the Tin Man may have a soft heart, but he doesn't have any BRAINS. He may be "bright," at times, but he is equally empty-headed and hollow, after all. "If only I had perfection," Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 19:28:41 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Ozziness Homer: Some of us Wogglebugs *like* Neill's horrible little puns. It was many years after I first read WONDER CITY that I really understood about the Heelers who followed the leader with a "green back." Aaron (and others): The only pre-Wizard ruler of Oz authorized by Baum (or the rest of FF) is Pastoria, Ozma's (putative) father. Ozroar, Ozette and all the others are apocryphal (which does NOT mean fictitious--the Maccabees are apocryphal). What it does mean is that they should not be assumed to be equally historical with those specifically identified in LFB or his direct successors. Jim: I found the new Ozclub reference section. SUPER! Tyler et al. Right! Buy copies of TALES OF MAGIC LAND I & II. Give copies to your local libraries. Tell all your friends. Use them as un-borthday presents. (N.B. I do not get a commission, I just want to see MAGIC LAND III published). Ken Hackney: Welcome (I welcomed you two days ago, but lost it). Whence the "MAGIC INDEX" in your post? Who is Gyga? Glad to see a BLADE RUNNER fan on the digest. I hope "Glenda" is a typographical error. This brings up a point. In certain non-fictional writings based on THE WIZARD OF OZ I have come upon the spelling Glenda. I suspect this is based on Billie Burke's pronunciation in thed 1939 film. Does anyone have any definitive source for this spelling? Gili: How about "Utzeema" for Ozma? If you're spending a year at Harvard, maybe you could attend some of the other Oz conventions. I'd be glad to see you. Peter: This is a question related to the copyright law. If a character is introduced in a book that is under copyright, and subsequently appears in a book on which copyright has lapsed (I am thinking specifically of Kabumpo and the Red Jinn) is that character still under copyright. This has been a matter of some conjecture, and I would like a definitive answer. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 22:00:21 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-96 >All the earlier titles still protected by copyright in 1962 continued to >have protection (if renewed) until the new copyright law went into effect >in 1978. The new law granted protection for works originally published >before 1976 (and properly renewed) for a maximum of 75 years from original >date of publication. However, renewal of first-term copyrights first >registered under the older law was still required to protect them. To >simplify the expiry date for all such works, the new law provided that >such works would be protected through December 31 of the last year of >protection. This seems to say that publications copyrighted 1921 and before would no longer be protected. This suggests that Kabumpo In Oz (1922) will leave copyright 12/31/96, and all before it are already out. Ken Ken Hackney khackney@hub.ofthe.net *************************************************************** "If you were not a Flutterbudget you wouldn't worry." "There's another 'if'," replied the woman. "Are you a Flutterbudget, too?" "I will be, if I stay he long," exclaimed the Wizard nervously. "Another 'if'!" cried the woman. *************************************************************** ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 22:43:44 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-96 >Gordon: >With the stiff masks worn by the Winkie guards in the movie, you wouldn't >expect to be able to hear consonants in any case, so an all-vowel chant would >be appropriate whatever words they might be singing. It's a fact of acoustics >that consonants, which are high-frequency sounds, are much more easily lost >than the low-frequency sounds of vowels. (Much as you can hear the bass from >the idiot in the next car playing his stereo too loud, but don't get the rest >of the sound.) My impression of the Winkie chant was: Oh, ee, oh! De oh umph! (repeat) I was happy that the 2 CD deluxe edition of THE WIZARD OF OZ from Rhino/Turner included the WINKIE MARCH (it is not on the 1 disc version) but disappointed that the chant itself was not included. The liner notes quote the Winkie Chant as: "O-Ee-Yah! Eoh-Yah!" (Page 41-Chapter 5) Considering the amount of work that was put into researching and producing the set, this might be considered definitive. This set even has the voices of the original actors (before dubbing) singing about the lollipop guild welcoming to munchkinland. I had occassion to talk with Marilee Bradford who produced the OZ CDs for Turner. Marilee is no longer with Turner, but was nice enough to respond today to my inquiry about her inclusion of Jno.R.Neill illustrations. She confirms what we all now know about the original books copyright status. I suspect everyone who reads Ozzy Digest already has one of the OZ CDs. If not I recommend them highly, especially the deluxe edition. I did a midi arrangement of the stage musical Wizard of OZ back in 1987 and at that time had never heard of "The Jitterbug Dance." It was a real kick getting to create music that I had never heard before from the original score (32 instruments). It was only later that I heard the outtakes from the movie and the remaining soundtrack. I felt like we did pretty well, but we might not have let it swing enough. I recently repolished "Over The Rainbow" and it sounds pretty good on more modern synthesizers. I should go back and work on "Jitterbug" again, but just never seem to have time. By the way, has there been conjecture on the source of the Oz name (other than the history of Oscar Zoroaster etc.)? There seems to be a great similarity to the historic Land of Uz (biblical) in our parallel of the universe. Being near the arabian Gobi desert about 2500 years ago it certainly suggests a historic "shadow" effect through the various parallels. Does anyone know if L. Frank Baum was also a biblical scholar? Regards, Ken ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 23:18:01 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: OZ on silver screen There is yet another chance for you to punch that Wicked Witch right in the nose, Bear! Gen and I found ourselves on University Ave. in Palo Alto Sunday afternoon and had just enough time to get in to see the MGM Oz at the old movie house. It plays through this Tuesday, and you'll have a chance to hear a medley of Arlen/Harburg tunes played live on the Mighty Wurlitzer. Seeing the film with a full house is quite an experience. The print wasn't in bad shape, and the aspect ratio was just right. The audience hissed and booed and cheered and laughed and cried as if it was the first time any of us had seen it; television can't quite hold a candle to film. I even had a chance to refute the "hanging man" urban legend on our way out of the theatre. Somebody had been looking all over for him and I blurted out that it was not true, before they had a chance to spread it further. I guess now we have to go back and see it again Monday and Tuesday, and I hope at least a few Ozzy Digesters find out about it in time. Ken Cope ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 03:10:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Barbara: The problem of the digest appearing to cut off has happened to me before. Since we are both on CompuServe, you might try the same solution that I used. I beleive that the entire message has been received, but is not always read. When you get your mail, use the "Get All" command to download the message onto your hardrive in your IN basket. Open the message, do not expand the dialog box, and page down until you get to the end. That will insure that you have the entire message. Save it as a text file and read it with a word processor. Omby Amby and those Green Whiskers: I tend to think that there is only one person involved here. While Dorothy did not appear to recognize him, but he may have been spending most of his time with the Army and did not have much chance to talk to her. Dave: As of now, it is _The Five Ages of Oz_. I combined some since it made better sense to do so. As soon as I write the thing, I'll send you a copy. Digests: As Dave mentioned, I maintain copies of All digests back to December 5, 1995. The first digest I have contains some references to prior digests, but I am pretty sure I have them all. E-Mail me privately if you want any. They are kept in blocks of one month, so while I cannot send you the April 4 digest, what I CAN do is send you all of April 1996. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Monday 19-Aug-96 01:19:45 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things _AMARGASAURUS_: I forgot to answer Aaron's question yesterday about _Amargasaurus_. The reason you don't "remember" _Amargasaurus_, Aaron, is because it's a brand-new discovery! _Amargasaurus_ is a sauropod (i.e. one of the "long-necks" like Brontosaurus, Diplodocus, etc.), which had a Dimetrodon-like "sail", or series of elongated vertebral spines supported by a skin membrane. Unlike _Spinosaurus_ and _Dimetrodon_, however, _Amargasaurus'_ "sail" was longest at the upper neck instead of the back, and _Amargasaurus_ had *two* rows of parallel spines instead of just one. "STUPID" QUESTIONS: Rich wrote: > And speaking of MGM, has anyone given any thought to who, if any, was > the Ozian informant for the movie? Eric responded: >Why in the WORLD do we need to figure THIS out? Yhis has got to be one of >the most ludicrous questions ever asked on the Ozzy Digest! Can't people ask an Ozzy question, whatever it is, without being called "ludicrous"? Sheesh! :) Remember folks, the only "stupid" question is the question you don't ask! :) NON-OZZY DIGRESSIONS: Robin O. wrote: >Non-Oz Comments on the DIGEST: I *like* 'em! Am I the only one? No, you're not, and I thank you for your remarks defending our little innocent "digressions" on the Digest! BEFORE THE DIGEST: Tyler wrote: >I maintain copies of All digests back to December 5, 1995. >The first digest I have contains some references to prior digests, but I >am pretty sure I have them all. I'm pretty sure you have them all too, since December 5 sounds about right for when I started the Digest. Those references to earlier "Digests" must refer to things written in the _Ozzy Digest's_ ancestors, _The Ozian Times_ and Chris Heer's Oz Mailing List. STEVE'S QUESTIONS: >Whence the "MAGIC INDEX" in your post? My FAQ (which in turn is from my _Locasta_ manuscript). >Who is Gyga? ******* SLIGHT SPOILER FOR _LOCASTA AND THE THREE ADEPTS OF OZ_ *********** Gyma is a character in _Locasta_. She is another of Ozma's cousins (like Ozga and Ozana), and she rules and guards over the dinosaur-inhabited land of Op. ***************************** END SPOILER ********************************* >I hope "Glenda" is a typographical error... Unfortunately, it's apparently a popular myth (see below). BILLIE BURKE: Steve wrote: >... I have come upon the spelling Glenda. I suspect this >is based on Billie Burke's pronunciation in thed 1939 film. Come to think of it, *I've* seen many misprints of Glinda as "Glenda" -- You mean to say that on top of MGM's other crimes against Glinda and Oz, Billie Burke started a myth about her name too!!?? Glinda: I'm Glinda. "Glenda" is named "Jackson" and is an ex-actress and member of British Parliament! Am I a little testy today? :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 20, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] SPECIAL MESSAGE FROM THE EDITOR: As far as I can tell, Compuserve has been haywire for the last two days, and is detouring incoming messages to the Valley of Lost Things. Can someone who has some other means (preferably phone) of communicating with Tyler Jones, Melody Grandy, Richard "Bear" Bauman, or any other Digest member whose on Compuserve get in touch with them and ask them if they are getting the Digests AT ALL, and if not, let them know that the problem is on their end, not mine, and find out how I can get in touch with them? Hopefully though this problem will be solved by the time you read this and the Compuserve Digesters will proclaim "It's all right Dave!" :) -- Dave ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 07:19:30 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: The Gobi Desert Uh, Ken, the Gobi is in Mongolia. With regards to informant theory and the MGM movie, I think the case has been made against it. There are other works, though, which I think a case could be made for as being the work of the March Hare and the Mad Hatter, such as the material for both political parties... ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:33:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Winkie guards, Glinda, film music David: I liked your analysis of the way the stiff masks of the Winkie guards filter out the high-frequency consonants, leaving the low-frequency vowels--but...um...what stiff masks? It looks to me as if they are all wearing make-up that reproduces the Witch's look (everything from the green skin to the long nose and pointy chin), as if she had cloned onto them all her evil appearance and personality. Admittedly we don't many clear shots of the faces of the Winkies, but the leader of the Winkie guards (the one who says to Dorothy, "She's--she's dead. You've killed her.") isn't wearing a mask, and right after that you can see the mask-like faces of the other Winkies break into grins as they kneel in homage to Dorothy. Here is another quotation to add to the ongoing debate about Glinda's age. At the end of _Road_, Glinda shows up for Ozma's birthday party (and incidentally: her birthday is Wednesday, right? Are we going to celebrate it?), and is described as follows: "Next came a tall, beautiful woman clothed in a splendid trailing gown, trimmed with exquisite lace as fine as cobweb. This was the important Sorceress known as Glinda the Good, who had been of great assistance to both Ozma and Dorothy." Taking into account the fact that children in the early twentieth century did not mature as early as they do now, could this "tall, beautiful woman" have been any younger than sixteen or seventeen? Ken H.: I'm glad you brought up the Turner 2-CD recording of the music from the MGM film. If any members of the Digest haven't gotten this recording yet, I urge you all to buy it while it's still available. It not only has all the songs and background music but extended versions, outtakes, and alternate arrangements that were deleted or replaced in the final version of the movie. The liner notes (actually a 49-page booklet) include a wealth of information, much of it not available elsewhere, with fascinating tidbits such as the melodic parallels between Miss Gulch's bicycle theme and the opening notes of the chorus of "We're Off to See the Wizard." ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 08:05:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-19-96 Dave, Ken Hackney and Steve Teller both raised interesting questions about copyright in yesterday's posting. The calculation for determining the expiration date has generally been done by adding 75 to the original year of copyright, so that it is books originally published in 1921 that slip into the public domain at the end of 1996. Steve's question calls for a "definitive" answer, but as with many areas of law, copyright law is essentially interpreted by litigation, so definitive answers are few and far between. One of the philosophical difficulties with copyright law is that "ideas" cannot be protected by copyright, but the expression of those ideas (that is the depiction or the description or exposition of those ideas in prose) is protected. Generally, though, a defense against infringement would be that the source of a particular character was a work in the public domain. Those seeking more definitive interpretations are well advised to consult legal counsel with a specialty in copyright law. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 08:09:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Dates for the 1997 Ozmopolitan, Winkie, and Munchkin meetings As of this time, the dates for the 1997 Oz Club Conventions are: Ozmopolitan Convention Lake Lawn Lodge Delavan, Wisconsin June 5-8 Winkie Conference Asilomar Conference Center Pacific Grove, California July 11-13 Munchkin Convention Radisson Hotel Wilmingon, Delaware August 1-3 Peter ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:14:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-96 > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: I'm back... but not for long! > > I think it's time to inform y'all that next year I will be > living in the United States for the year. HUZZAH! > Eric - glad to have you back! Don't be so sure about that yet, I seem to be making a few enemies already... > I > suppose Russian artists were influenced by who I belive is the first and > best of the Volkov illustrators, Leonid Vladimirski. Actually, the first illustrator of "Volshebnik Izumrudnovo Goroda" was N. Radlov, way back in 1939. But I agree that Vladimirski is the best illustrator of Volkov's books (that I've seen, that is). > From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > I would like to second Eric's request. I realize that many of us (myself > included) have many other interests and often they converge with our > interest in Oz, but we really should work to make this an "Ozzy" digest. It was not a request, it was a self-imposed guideline that only applies to me. I do not want to try to dictate what others write here, merely set a better example -- not that I really mind the non-Ozzy stuff at all. But some people's posts have had almost NO Oz in them, so for now I'm, just going to stick to Oz. This may change in the future, of course. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:28:02 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-96 & 08-19-96 Barbara: I haven't had any problem with Digests being cut off, FWIW. Might have something to do with the length of the recent digests, but since I'm not on Compuserve I don't really know how it handles that sort of thing. (I know parts of long Digests can apparently disappear on AOL if you don't know how to deal with them.) Maybe Tyler or Bear or one of the other Compuserve users can help you. Gili: Let us know your new E-mail address as soon as you have one! (At this point I got called away from my computer and never made it back yesterday. So I have an extra day to comment on - but I'm sure it shortened today's Digest. ) Steve beat me to it, but I was going to suggest "Utzima" too. That way when you got to translating YELLOW KNIGHT into Hebrew the line about "She's the ma of this whole country," would still work... Peter: Thanks for the discussion of copyright law. I think Dave is doing a good thing in saving it as a separate file that can be reposted occasionally if the subject comes up again. Tyler: While I don't think we should get off into lengthy discussions of non-Ozzy topics, I agree with Robin that brief discussions of non-Ozzy matters that arise from the Ozzy discussions - usually a comment on someone else's posting that's reminded one of something interesting, with follow-up comments from other members and then maybe a final comment by the original digressor - liven up the Digest. (I would, however, exclude comments on political or religious subjects unrelated to Oz; those should really be eschewed entirely, because there are too many people on the Digest who feel strongly, and differently, on those subjects.) I've argued the subject of the evidence in YELLOW KNIGHT elsewhere; I don't think it proves that Lurline's enchantment was as long as 700 years ago, since magic was almost certainly well-established in Oz long before the enchantment and the agelessness of the Samandrans might well have had some other cause than Lurline's enchantment. It seems likely, actually, since other evidence in the books indicates that in most of the rest of Oz reasonably normal aging took place up until Ozma's accession. (Not that I convinced anyone - except myself - with my previous argument, either.) Moving along to 8/19: Eric: If you're worried about people getting their feelings hurt on the Digest, refraining from comments like "Why in the WORLD do we need to figure THIS out? Yhis has got to be one of the most ludicrous questions ever asked on the Ozzy Digest! " might help, _n'est ce pas_? (Or, physician, heal thyself.) Danny: I don't think anyone knows what would happen if Ozma were removed from the throne permanently. Clearly she can leave the EC, even involuntarily (as in LOST PRINCESS and HUNGRY TIGER) without any harm to the enchantment. Beyond that, we're in the realm of pure speculation: let a thousand flowers bloom! (MOPPeT is that the continuation of the enchantment does not depend on Ozma's remaining on the throne, but that there is no force in the world of Oz sufficient to remove her from the throne permanently anyhow.) Steve: I imagine the misspelling "Glenda" for "Glinda" comes from the fact that "Glenda" is a non-uncommon name, or at least it wasn't in my age cohort. I've known at least half a dozen "Glenda"s in my lifetime. (And a sizable minority of the population of the US don't make a phonetic distinction between "Glenda" and "Glinda" in pronunciation, any more than they do between "Jenny" and "Ginny" or "Lynn" and "Len".) If you're a BLADE RUNNER fan, would it impress you to know that I was responsible for the process lens that was used in creating the special effects for that movie? Ken H.: You're right, only you're off by one year. That is, copyrights run through the end of the year that's 75+copyright date. So ROYAL BOOK goes into PD at the end of this year, not KABUMPO. The latter goes into PD at the end of 1997. This is assuming that the law isn't changed, as some people are trying to do. (I doubt it will be changed in time to protect RB, but it might be in time to protect KABUMPO.) I think the Land of Uz in Job is near the Arabian Desert, but not the Gobi - which is in China and maybe Mongolia. And I doubt if Baum was a Bible scholar, but he was probably quite familiar with the Bible; most literate Americans of the late 19th century were. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:36:24 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuf Brain Teaser: Which Emerald City resident is the only immigrant who did not come into Oz from America? Here's some more evidence for Ozma's ancestory-- The theory is that Ozma is one in the line of many who held the name, and that her many ancestors (no number specifically) were called Ozroar and Ozma also. For evidence that this is practiced in Baumgea, look at the neighboring country of Ev. Here, the royal family we catch a glimpse of (in OZMA) all have variations of the word Ev in there names. Evring, Evoldo, Evanna, etc. In fact, the new king, Evardo, is the Fifteenth with such a name. Info. request-- I would like some more info on Ev. Was OZMA the only book to explore Ev in any detail, and was Langwediere or the royal family ever in another story and if so, what happened? Wondering if the Nomes can stand "EggBeaters," Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:54:42 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Non-Ozzy digressions Eric G.: Gee, the day after you spoke about avoiding ad hominenoid arguments, you call Rich's question "ludicrous"..... As to non-Ozzy Digressions, I have to agree with Robin and our illustrious leader here. Without them, I'd never be able to contribute :-) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 14:55:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" To: Dave Hardenbrook 1) Gili, considering that Ozma is the feminine form of Oz, perhaps Ozma should be translated as `UZAh or (for a truly archaic flavor, since Old Ozzish is a truly archaic language) `UZAth. 2) Ken, there isn't a great parallel between Uz and Oz. The only thing near a parallel is that the story of Job is probably a parable. Try reading Job and you'll find it unlike anything in the Famous Forty. Now if you want shadow effects, consider those between _Ozma of Oz_ and _Tik-Tok of Oz_, _John Dough and the Cherub_ and _The Shaggy Man of Oz_, _Grampa in Oz_ and _The Magical Monarch of Mo_, and _Grampa in Oz_ and _Kabumpo in Oz_. Or if you care to accept Goodwin's Land as a parallel universe, is Charlie Black an alter-Cap'n Bill? Are John and Anna Smith alters of Uncle Henry and Aunt Em or Dorothy's parents? Is Villina alter to Locasta or Tattypoo-Orin? Is Golorikup alter-Lurline or alter-Tititi-Hoochoo, or maybe even alter-Ozroar I? Is Fred an alter-Zeb Hugson? And why don't certain characters who certainly exist in both Oz and Goodwin's Land get named in both (Kaggi Karr, Ku Klip, Lestar, Nimmie Ammee)? And why are certain characters and events shadowed and others not? 3) On non-Ozzy digressions: why not? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:14:40 -0200 From: amyjones@MindSpring.COM (Amy Jones) Subject: for Ozzy Digest Robin: To answer your question: >Non-Oz Comments on the DIGEST: I *like* 'em! Am I the only one? You are not the only one! I lurk here daily. The reason I don't post often is because I don't know much about Oz (as compared to most of y'all), although I do love it and I am learning so much. People learn by making connections to previous knowledge, and references to other things non-Ozzy help me to figure it all out. (Of course a long running discussion on how to best change the oil on your car or how to make Great Aunt Louree's tea cakes would probably not be welcome.) Amy Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 19:39:36 -0800 (PST) From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) Subject: Various HO's Robin: Bravo for liking the digressions; I do too (mostly). In fact, I'll create one now re your aside about predicting intelligence for toddlers. I realize that I'm remarkably old-hat for feeling that scientists should -- oh, horrors -- think about what they're doing a little before they do it, but this kind of advance is exactly the kind of thing that bears thinking about. Even aside from the question of who is going to define "intelligence," you can be absolutely certain that this technique will be -- or more likely is already being -- cited as one more excuse with a supposed scientific "proof" for separating people into rigid caste systems. We do that enough to one another as it is -- and the Digest is a good example of this in action, but at least it's voluntary here -- without adding apparent legitimization of this kind to it. MOPPeT is that this will eventually result in the death knell to freedom and democracy if we don't atomize ourselves first. Thankfully, I will by that time have undergone the second experience which is common to us all. Copyrights: The recent discussions of copyright law are also interesting diversions. I have to admit that IMHO the pending extension of copyright limits to 100 years is nothing more than an example of greed run riot. With Tyler, I view the prospect of descendants unending gleaning ever smaller and smaller royalties as the years pass from any particular work as grabbing for the sake of grabbing. Given the statistical probability that any given novel is going to become a classic which will pass on through history, it's even ridiculous. Even so, I am revulsed to think that -- when they get around to changing the law to "in perpetuity" -- those few which do become classic can never pass into the common heritage of the people without paying blood money to someone who has no connection with it whatsoever except an accident of the genes. In light of this, I have a question for someone who knows: Is it legally permissible for an author to /relinquish/ his copyrights at death or to do some other equivalent such as bequeathing them to a foundation which can't charge for them? Oh dear, not a single Ozzy reference in this post! If you don't want to include this in the Digest, Dave, I'll forward my comment for Robin direct. Oz always, W. Baldwin ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 21, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] *********** HAPPY BIRTHDAY, OZMA!!! :) :) :) :) ********** ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:42:22 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-96 Hi Digest! Hey, look, BOTH Adelmans are back on the digest! Summer must be almost over... Aaron, Utza and Utzat are both possibilities, but you're right about the highly archaic flavor. I'm not sure this is the exact feel I'm looking for.Utziah has been one of my favorites, Utzit being a bit diminutive...(also, I just remembered that Utza with the stress on the second syllable wasthe name of a puppet duck on a popular children's show here.) However: SJT, Robin and David H.: Utzima (which sounds like Utz+Ima, or Oz+mother) is appealing to me more and more. Thanks tot he three of you for suggesting it! Incidentally, some Hebrew translations have schanged Aunt Em's name to Emma or even Emily. Em is another word for mother in Hebrew, and I guess "Aunt Mother" is a bit too overtly Freudian... Happened to pass by the shop that had sold me "Emereald Rain" yesterday, and while they did not uncover additional copies of the book, they did give me a video of an animated version of "Urfin Jus and his wooden soldiers". This is a continuation of the stop-animation series I already have on video, based on Vokov's first book. The quality of the video itself is pretty horrible, but not bad enough to disguise how charming the dolls are. I watched it for over half an hour yesterday, even though I don't understand a word of Russian! I don't know where Utz was supposed to have been, or which near desert. When we studied Job in highschhol we were told that it is speculated that there never was a real land of Utz (Uz), but this was a well know legendary land. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 05:46:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-96 Well, it seems I've returned prematurely. All I'm getting now are justafiable complaints about my posts. I apologize, my "This is ludicrous" post was an extremely poor choice of words. I don't know why this is happening to me right now (although it may have to do with the fact that I can't even get an interview right now for teaching in this school year that starts in less than two weeks), but I think it's probably best for everyone if I just go slink back under my rock for an indefinite time. Honest, I don't MEAN to make everyone so mad at me... --Eric "And Bear, if I ever calm down, I will talk to you" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:23:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Oz Digest From:Barbara DeJohn I did not get the Digest for the 18th but I received both the19th and the20th on the same day. I knew I missed one for the comments referred to things I didn't recall. I don't remember who suggested the books by Edward Eager and E. Nesbit but I thank you. I haven't finished THE BASTABLES by Nesbit but I read HALf MAGIC in one sitting. In HM the children find a magic coin that will grant half of your wish so you have to wish for twice as much as you want to happen. The coin only works for them for 1 week and then they decide to pass it on to someone else. I thought that was a good way for the magic to be limited and perhaps some of the Oz magic could be limited in that way. We have mentioned before that all problems in Oz could be solved by the ever increasing magic implements without anyone even having to go on an adventure. It seems that when they go on an adventure we think that the whole thing could have been solve sooner if they only used such and such implement , but that would ruin the story. As for the t-shirts to incorporate several of peoples ideas how about the computer screen with our Digest logo on it and the OZZY DIGEST written on it and the YBR coming from it? On the back I thought we could have Dave's address. Please let me know if that is agreeable and of course I will need someone to send me a picture of it. Danny? Melody? Dave? Wow this the longest I've ever written!! Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:28:30 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Permission to use copyrighted art? >Steve's question calls for a "definitive" answer, but as with many areas >of law, copyright law is essentially interpreted by litigation, so >definitive answers are few and far between. One of the philosophical >difficulties with copyright law is that "ideas" cannot be protected by >copyright, but the expression of those ideas (that is the depiction or the >description or exposition of those ideas in prose) is protected. >Generally, though, a defense against infringement would be that the source >of a particular character was a work in the public domain. My interest is significantly more prosaic and concrete. I am seeking permission to render the J.R. Neill drawings from all OZ books (especially those from (1921-35) as rubber stamps. I specifically need to find out how to contact the individual who holds the copyright for those drawings. I believe I was told that a relative of Neill's might be the holder. Whoever it may be, I would need to know a name and an address, but have no clue how to find that information if nobody among this group has it. Your help would be appreciated. Regards, Ken Ken Hackney khackney@hub.ofthe.net *************************************************************** "If you were not a Flutterbudget you wouldn't worry." "There's another 'if'," replied the woman. "Are you a Flutterbudget, too?" "I will be, if I stay he long," exclaimed the Wizard nervously. "Another 'if'!" cried the woman. (Emerald City of Oz) *************************************************************** ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:11:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-96 a bit of ozzyniss for you jill sobule sang a song called i kissed a girl she also sang a song called the restance song at the end of the resistance song(im pretty sure its that one and not i kissed a girl) there is some oz music in the background u have to turn it up a little to hear it but its the music playing i think when miss gulch is riding ehr bike it goes du du du du du du might be when the tornado is going though to hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:37:00 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-96 >2) Ken, there isn't a great parallel between Uz and Oz. The only thing >near a parallel is that the story of Job is probably a parable. Try >reading Job and you'll find it unlike anything in the Famous Forty. Actually, I am currently wading through Isaac Asimov's "Guide To The Bible." He has a section on Job that boils things down like Cliff Notes. I picked up the reference to the Land of Uz from a run-on paragraph of countries near that time, and thought I remembered what desert he referred to. Obviously, my memory fails again. If I spelled it "Glenda" it shows how many years have elapsed since I actually read an Oz book. Too much time in rec.music.movies, and FILMUS-L. It is rather depressing to realize that I have only read the first 20 something books (to 1933). I suspect I will turn out to be a strict interpretationist, in that I always preferred the social satire of Baum to the fairy stories of Thompson (although she did plenty of that too). I know nothing of later events! Regards, Ken ****************************************************************************** "Still, you must surrender!" exclaimed the General, fiercely. "We are revolting!" "You don't look it," said the Guardian.... ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:35:22 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: OZ David: I'm impressed. Danny Ozbot: Tik-Tok is an EC immigrant who did not come from the U.S. He came from Mo. Ruggedo was a temporary resident (from MAGIC to KABUMPO). Handy Mandy came from Mount Mern, but she is not really a EC resident. Davy Jones came from the Nonestic (or Nonentic) Ocean, but I am not sure he counts as a EC resident although is goes around the city making deliveries. Amy Jones: Keep lurking, and if you have anything to ask, please feel free to ask. I too like disgressions, when they don't go too far (are too far afield). Great Aunt Louree's tea cakes would be welcome if they are served with triple-trick-tea. And Nick Chopper's aides may need lessons in how to change oil if Ojo's experience in PATCHWORK GIRL is typical. Gee, this digest would be a great way to take up my free time if I had any left. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:41:05 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-96 Dave: I don't have any fast way of communicating with the Compuserve people on the Digest other than E-mail (I know a couple of snail-mail addresses), but I don't think there's a major problem with Compuserve; I've been exchanging E-mails with my brother, who's on CS, a couple of times a day for the past 2-3 days, with no problem. Maybe it's somewhere in the link between Delphi and CS? I'll try E-mailing a couple of CS Digestians and see if my messages get through, and ask them if they've been getting the Digest. Gordon: Hmm - it's been a while since I watched the movie; I'd remembered the Winkies as wearing masks, but I defer to you. I know that when they spoke, their voices had what I consider a muffled sound. Anyhow, consonants also get lost with distance, and as I recall the times we hear the Winkie chant are all when they're at some distance from the camera. I don't think there's been much controversy over Glinda's age; it's Ozma's age that's been the subject of debate. Glinda is known to be some centuries old, and yet to look like a young and beautiful - but mature - woman. I picture her as about 30, as did both Denslow and Neill. Danny: Several immigrants didn't come into Oz from America in a single journey; Shaggy's brother, for instance, had a lengthy sojourn in the Nome King's dominion before ending up in Oz. And more than one resident of the EC came from outside Oz and not from America: Ruggedo (even if he's currently a cactus), Pigasus, and Davy Jones come to mind. But if you mean one who didn't originate in America, but did come from a country we can find in the standard atlas...hmm, well, MOPPeT is that Eureka originated in Australia, but that's not established. And we don't know where Hank originated, or Merry. And the Wizard was probably not born in America, strictly speaking; if he was really "a very old man" in 1899, by any reasonable standard, then he was born before Nebraska was a state. But I can't think of any EC resident who we know was born outside US territory but not in Baumgea. Maybe, if you mean "living in original form within the walls of the EC," Pigasus would be the right answer. That's the best I can come up with. OZMA is the only book in the FF that explores Ev in any detail, although Ev is visited for greater or lesser times in quite a few other books. I don't believe that any of them mention the royal family, though. (The Red Djinn is called the Wizard of Ev, although he seems to rule his part of it completely independently of the royal family of OZMA.) Interesting question - I think that "Eggbeaters" include the whites of eggs, so I'd imagine that they'd be harmful to Nomes. Apparently even an intact egg is harmful, so I'd imagine that any interior part would be harmful as well. Warren: I'm pretty sure that an author can bequeath his copyrights, just like any other assets, wherever he chooses. I know for a fact that it's true in Britain; Barrie bequeathed the rights to PETER PAN to a children's hospital, and Agatha Christie bequeathed the rights to THE MOUSETRAP to some charity or other. (Actually, they may have given them away while they were living, but it amounts to the same thing.) I'm reasonably sure the same thing would apply in the US, though I can't cite a specific case that I know of. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:59:39 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Ozma's Apparent Age For my 6th Christmas in 1953 my father gave me my own copy of Ozma of Oz. Having read that, I branched out to all the others in his own personal collection. That Reilly & Lee volume from 1953 is still in excellent shape and has a striking color picture of Ozma on the cover in a red sheath dress. Even at age 6, it was apparent to me that Ozma was no child. The drawing looks more like Theda Bara. The drawing opposite the flyleaf looks more like a 12 year old child version of Ozma. Her appearance varies from image to image. I think that, being a fairy, she may appear however you expect her to appear (much like an Arisian, but that is sure off topic!) Ken *********************************************************** "But--thunder-ation! Don't you know that eggs are poison?" "Rocketty-ricketts!" "Smudge and blazes!" "Hippikaloric!" ************************************************************************* "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long ...and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy." ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:07:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Glinda's age Gordon, considering that Ozma appears in her mid-teens and Glinda is physically older than Ozma, I've always assumed that Glinda is somewhere between her late teens to early twenties. But considering that she's usually is a mother-figure to Ozma, I keep getting the false impression that she's in her thirties or forties. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:30:01 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi! Some more quick comments... Sorry to hear about the difficulties some people have had getting the full Ozzy Digest...although I must confess to a certain relief that this time it's Compuserve, not AOL, which is giving its subscribers unusual problems. Like most of the other inhabitants of Oz, Glinda is immortal and I rembember her being described as having lived for centuries (wasn't she credited with placing the Water of Oblivion in what's now the Emerald City, long before the Wizard's time?), but physically young. I don't see her as an eternal teenager, though, like Ozma or Coo-ee-oh or Zixi...Neill's illustrations seem to show a woman physically around 25-30. Oz itself? The tradition is that the name didn't come from the Biblical Uz but from a filing cabinet containing the latter half of the alphabet, and labelled O-Z. That's been debunked in later years, but I don't see any reason, since Baum's own children told the story, that it couldn't be true. The "Ma" concluding Ozma's name supposedly had only an indirect connection with motherhood, coming from the first two letters of Baum's wife's name (Maud). As a further indication, when TIK-TOK OF OZ replaced an older Ozma from the play with a similar character, she became Princess Ozga of the Rose Kingdom, with the "Ga" taken from Maud Baum's maiden name (Gage). Whether the copyright law gets extended depends on a number of events properly outside the province of the Ozzy Digest (such as which party controls Congress, and whether the opposition, as now appears likely, will control the White House...and also have a line-item veto to toss out riders that now so often get tacked onto unrelated bills). I agree with the consensus that 75 years is probably enough (after all, when I was born, 56 years was considered enough), and have no patience with the bellyaching of Jane Austen's relatives at not getting any money from her books. (I don't hear the descendants of Charles Dickens and Mark Twain and most other novelists of similar vintage complaining...though I'd favor the compromise of extending the copyright only for material held by the author's original family...or possibly nonprofit organizations like the hospital left the rights to PETER PAN...and not to corporations or work for hire.) Danny asked: <> Well, the Shaggy Man's brother didn't come DIRECTLY from there, nor did Trot, Cap'n Bill, Button-Bright, or even Billina, but they all originated there. It's been theorized, but not confirmed, that Eureka was originally Australian, but I'd have to say (talking FF, I assume) Pigasus is the only documented Emerald City resident who came from outside Oz, but not from America. Other non-Ozian, non-American people and animals have settled elsewhere in Oz (Ozga, the Wise Donkey, Handy Mandy, Davy Jones et al) but not, to my recollection, in the Emerald City. Take care, Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 96 10:31:56 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: ozzy digest I just finished reading Eloise McGraw's new (this year) book, The Moorchild (Margaret K. McElderry -- imprint of Simon & Schuster). It's quite wonderful. It's a fantasy novel closely based on British folklore, i.e., humans are troubled by the pranks of the Little People, who live in Mounds, wear red caps, can turn themselves invisible, like to steal bits of food and oddments, and occasionally substitute a changeling of their own for a human baby. In folklore, this sort of belief usually gives rise to stories from the human point of view -- humans who do or do not manage to outwit the Little People, with results good/comic or bad/tragic for humans. In this case, the point of view is that of the changeling herself, the Moorchild, who does not remember what she is, does not understand what has happened to her, is increasingly distressed by the villagers' suspicions of her, and struggles to find out who she is and what kind of life she can make for herself that will allow her to accept her differences. She does not have the option of trying to get back to life in the Mound, because she is half-human, cannot turn herself invisible at need, and is judged to be a danger to the rest. In the process of finding herself, she chooses to help others find themselves, so far as she can, including stealing back the lost human child. The folklore-based fairy life, the narrowness of the villagers, the plight of a "different" child trying to find a place -- all these are vivid. No particular Oz influences, but a fine fantasy book from the last of the Reilly & Lee Oz authors. Interesting to note, too, that McGraw did the jacket paintings herself. Aaron S. Adelman: I like the suggestion that the Oz magic-workers cannot really be ranked on a single scale of powerfulness, because their magics seem to be made up of quite a few different kinds of skills (you mentioned transformations, illusions, control of other people). The "color" magics that Thompson mentioned in some of her books (green, etc.) might also refer to kinds of specializations in different kinds of magic-working. Tyler Jones on the possibility that Congress might change copyright law to have copyrights last in perpetuity: It doesn't seem a change that would be likely to pass, does it? If you or someone were to find out who is arguing for such a change, probably a good number of us would like to write to that legislator and to our own legislators arguing against such a change. (Actually, the last I heard, the change I heard about as under consideration wasn't as drastic as putting copyrights into perpetuity, but making the period of copyright longer, to 100 years, rather than 75 years or life plus 50. I think I might agree with W. Baldwin that an extension to 100 years might do more harm to the general public's interests than it does in the way of good to the interests of authors and their heirs. On the other hand, it isn't really descendants unending -- it would cover 2 or 3 generations, and that's about it.) W.B. also asks if an author can will the author's copyrights to a foundation rather than to a relative. Authors can, but I doubt that many would. Most people, most of the time, when they make wills, choose to leave their property (and copyright is a type of property) to their families. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:01:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-96 Warren: Scary, isn't it, when we think of what one of us is able to do to another one of us.... I'd never have been allowed to survive in a "brave new world." Danny: Would Shaggy Man's brother qualify? He came to the Emerald City from the Nome Kingdom. (Yeah, I know, he was an American.) Gili: "Utzima" sounds cool! ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:22:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Last winters Baum Bugle finally made it to the top of the pushdown stack last night when I needed my Oz fix and had no Digest. Sigh! There was a great article on Dave and the Digest. I also enjoyed Eric's scholarly and well-written article on money in Oz. Robin - Dittos regarding life's smorgasboard of interesting subjects! Tyler and other Compuservers - For me there was no Digest at all yesterday. Can you use "Get All" when no mail is announced by the system and you know it should be there? Tyler kindly offers to send Digests in month blocks. If this is a bit much and you want a specific days Digest, I also have them archived slightly compressed. The pack rat Bear. E-mail me if you want a specific day. Dave >Gyma is a character in _Locasta_. She is another of Ozma's cousins (like Ozga and Ozana), and she rules and guards over the dinosaur-inhabited land of Op. Was that a typo? Is that the land of Oop? Alley that is! Surely. :) By the way SPEC is about to start doing a regular Alley Oop republication, like it's Dick Tracy and Smilin Jack magazines. I have details if anyone is interested. Peter - that is sage advice about copyright law. But..... can you imagine any of us going out and actually hiring a lawyer to answer this question? I would guess you are talking big bucks. An option is if we all keep our eyes and ears open and exploit our friends and neighbors if possible to get the definitive answer. Glad to be back, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:53:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Robin: Thanks for your kind words regarding my timeline. Non-Oz (sort of): I suppose that all things ultimately relate to one another, so that a little mixture of other stuff will actually improve Ozzy discussions. Steve: While it is true that Pastoria is the only canonical ruler mentioned in the FF, the FF as a whole has very little to say about pre-Dorothean history. Therefore, those of us who are interested in that must go beyond the FF to a large degree. This will result in a lot of "new" material, but there is very little "old" material in the first place. Copyrights: As Peter says, the best thing to do is to consult a copyright lawyer, but the sense that I have gotten from discussions on the digest is that if a character in a copyrighted book later appears in a book that goes PD, then that character is PD as he appears in that book only. For example, Kabumpo can be used, but only as he appears in _Silver Princess_. You cannot give him new personality elements and you cannot use any elements from copyrighted books that were not used in the PD book. The reality part comes in asking how far the copyright holder is willing to go in order to enforce the copyright. Also, Peter made an excellent point about copyright law (and most other things as well) when he said that once you go to court, it's all open to interpretation. Gordon: Ozma's birthday is supposedly August 21, from evidence in _Road_. David: There was definitely magic in Oz before Lurline's enchatment, IMO, and the non-aging of the Samandarans could have come from another source, but until other evidence comes to light, I will use that as a benchmark for the enchantment. Ozma's gone, and the warranty's expired: IMHO, I believe that the enchantment no longer relies on Ozma's presence to stay in place. I believe that it needed her to build itself up to its final manifestation, but that has been acomplished. Of course, somebody could always write a story about Ozma vanishing and the enchantment slowly going away, but keep in mind that, as David remarked, Ozma left for a short time during _Lost Princess_ and _Hungry Tiger_, so the effect would probably need at least a few weeks to be noticeable. David again: I am not a major fan of _Blade Runner_ (it was a decent movie), but I am impressed. Danny: We are right in tune with our theories of Ozma's ancestry. As a matter of fact, Ozma confirms this in _Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz_, when she mentions that the former rulers of Oz were named either Oz or Ozma. I have liberalized this to mean that the syllable "Oz" appears somewhere in their names, so things like Ozroar are kosher. Whether or not that 700 year figure is accurate, there have probably been a number of "Ozmas", some of whom may have even been members of Lurline's band. However, there's only one Ozma that matters, and she's OUR Ozma! :-) ********** SOME SLIGHT SPOILERS ********** Oz and Ev: In _Sir Harold and the Gnome King_, which the HACC lords have judged to be historically inaccurate, King Evoldo marries Ozma (looks like Dan had some competition a while ago, Dave!) However, Ev for the most part has been a "pass through" country. A little time was spent in it in _Hungry Tiger_, but no detailed study, as far as I can recall. Perhaps Chris Dulabone can give you some more clues. ********** END OF SPOILERS ********* The ruler having a name similar to the name of the country is commonplace in the world of Baumgea. Zixi of Ix, Rinkitink of Rinkitink, Gos and Cor of Regos and Coregos, Queen Garee of Pingaree, for example. Aaron: The short answer is that in two parallel Univeres, such as Baumgea and Goodvinia, some people are paralleled and some are not. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:13:09 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: For El Digest! To Kenneth Hackney: I was also terribly, terribly disappointed that the March of the Winkies on the supposedly "complete" two-CD set did not have the chant. (That was my favorite musical number, darn it!) However, when I asked John Fricke about it, he said that the masters for that musical number were lost--thus the March of the Winkies with Chant is not on the CD-Roms. "Oh, so THAT's why I've never found a Wizard Soundtrack with the March complete!" I said. He agreed. Let's hope the folks at MGM misplaced that tape (not trashed it) and it will turn up someday! About the Digest Difficulty: I KNEW there was something going on! It took four times longer than usual to pull down my E-mail yesterday--even the little E-mails! But the only Digest I missed was the 8-18-96 one. 19 and 20 were both waiting for me today. (Presume 19 bopped idly around the Web until the gateway into Compuserve permitted entry.) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 20-Aug-96 23:22:06 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things A NEW WORLD RECORD: I got an E-mail message from someone today expressing with supreme enthusiasm a desire to subscribe to the Ozzy Digest. So I added their address to my list. Then I read the next message, which was from the same person saying "Please disregard my last message." So I had to go back and remove the new address. This is the record for the shortest membership duration for anyone on the Ozzy Digest: 30 seconds! :) WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE DINOS, THE WONDERFUL DINOS OF OP: Bear wrote: >> ... land of Op. >Was that a typo? Is that the land of Oop? Alley that is! Surely. :) Nope, keeping with the tradition of Baumgean two-letter land names, it is Op...Though come to think of it, it is an interesting coincidence! ( There's another new land in _Locasta_ called Im, not to be confused with the Disney character Mim :) ) OZMA'S "PREVIOUS MARRIAGE": Tyler wrote: >In _Sir Harold and the Gnome King_, which the HACC lords have judged to be >historically inaccurate, King Evoldo marries Ozma (looks like Dan had some >competition a while ago, Dave!) How did this HI marriage effect Oz-Ev relations? Did Evoldo abdicate? Did Oz and Ev unite? Did we have the Marvelous Land of Ozev??? :) OZMA AND GLINDA'S AGES: Ken H. wrote: >I think that, being a fairy, she may appear however >you expect her to appear (much like an Arisian, but >that is sure off topic!) This is a good point, and would explain why there is so much arguement bordering on mudslinging on this question... Dan: Also explains why Ozma tells some people I'm her cousin... As for Glinda, I see her in her mid-30's as well, but that's partially because I see her as Enya, who is 35... :) COMPUSERVE: This "crisis" seems to be over with....People are getting their Digests now... TEE-SHIRTS: I'll draw the Tee-shirt illustration, if no one else wants to...Although I'd like to all us artists collaborating! ( And remember, some of us want to see it in badges too! :) ) COPYRIGHT LAWS: Can someone explain to me the new bill that someone mentioned that would extend all copyrights to when the Deadly Desert freezes over? :) OZ ON CHARON UPDATE: I have good news and bad news -- The bad news is that the letter I sent to Martin Gardner came back to me saying "No such address" -- Can someone confirm his correct address? The good news is that we can chalk up another supporter (and one that I considered a longshot): Astronomer Jay M. Pasachoff (who's Astronomy textbook, _Contempory Astronomy_, includes a reproduction of the Neill picture from _Glinda_ of Ozma and Dorothy climbing the magic staircase), E-MAILED me and said: ----------- Begin forwarded message ------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:36:41 -0400 From: Jay Pasachoff Subject: Oz Your idea about naming all or part of features on Charon about Oz sounds fine with me, but I have no particular advice beyond suggesting that you find out who is on the naming committee for the IAU and write to them. You can probably write to iau@iap.fr for that list. With best wishes, Jay Pasachoff ------------ End forwarded message ------------ I of course will send for that list... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 22, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 06:48:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Digest Trivia: Eureka! At 3:57 A.M. my brain furnished me with that answer. Happy Birthday, Ozma. I'm going to work now. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:07:58 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: Cat name TRIVIA Getting back to thread on cat names... does anyone remember the name of Jack Snow's cat? Justin Schiller reported that the cat had disappeared from Jack's NYC apartment when Jack died. Now THERE'S an Oz story waiting to be written. Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:02:22 -0700 From: wizofoz@okway.okstate.edu Dave, I've seen a few references to a 2-CD set of Oz music in the last few issues of Ozzy Digest. Being a new subscriber this is the first I've heard of this CD set. Could I get the name of the CD so I can check out the local music store? Also, I really enjoy reading the Digest each day. I'm learning lots about the different Oz books. I have been a long-time fan of the MGM version of the movie, but am excited to start learning about all of the wonderful books available. --Trisha Gedon ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:57:53 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Barbara DeJohn: I'm another one who much enjoys E. Nesbit and Edward Eager. Incidentally, Baum enjoyed Nesbit, too, and Eager was an Oz fan, who enjoyed both Baum and Thompson (he discussed Thompson in an article he wrote for Hornbook Magazine). In Eager's Seven-Day Magic, the magic book at one point takes the children and a stage-magician to a land where he decides to stay, and the children suspect that they have just seen the Wizard's arrival in Oz. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:02:53 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-96 Gili: I don't think there's any concrete evidence as to where the Land of Utz in Job was supposed to be, but based on the names of the various characters (not to mention the location of the writer, whoever that might have been) it seems likely that it was somewhere in what's now known as the Middle East or Southwest Asia - which would put it near the Arabian Desert, but a long way from the Gobi. Eric: I don't think anyone was "mad" at you (except possibly Bear). I certainly wasn't. I don't have to get mad at someone to criticize them; were you mad at everyone you criticized for criticizing other people? I'd much rather you continued to contribute to the Digest - your posts are interesting and informative - but it's your decision. Barbara: I imagine Dave will send all the Compuservers copies of the 8-18 Digest, which seems to have gone into a black hole, but if he doesn't and anyone wants it I can send it to you. I don't remember who first brought up the subject of Eager and Nesbit; there was a flurry of discussion of both (along with Nicholas Stuart Gray) a couple of months ago. They're all excellent children's authors that would probably be enjoyed by any Oz fan. (Not that they're the only ones, but getting into a more comprehensive listing would probably be excessive for the _Ozzy_ Digest.) I'm curious, though - is THE BASTABLES an omnibus of THE TREASURE SEEKERS, THE NEW TREASURE SEEKERS, and THE WOULDBEGOODS, or is it another book about the Bastable family that I haven't read? If so, I'll have to look for it; the Bastable books aren't fantasy, but they're my favorite Nesbit series. Ken H.: I think you need the address of at least one of the Neill daughters, but I don't have it. And I don't know what the odds would be of your getting permission to use the illustrations from the books that are still under copyright if you got in touch with them. If you've only read the Thompson books through 1933 then you've missed most of the ones I consider her best - OJO, SPEEDY, WISHING HORSE, HANDY MANDY, and SILVER PRINCESS. Neill started drawing Ozma in fitted costumes (and actually looking like a teenager) with YELLOW KNIGHT. Checking BIB OZ, I see that Neill drew new covers for OZMA and EMERALD CITY in 1929, both showing Ozma in a fitted dress. (The OZMA cover you remember, and the one on my childhood edition of EC.) This was essentially the same time that he started depicting Ozma in fitted costumes in new books. He may have been influenced in this by Mogodore's obvious lusting after Ozma in JACK PUMPKINHEAD (the 1929 book); whatever Mogodore's faults, there's no evidence that he was a child molester. Ozma is still shown in a loose flowing gown in that book, but afterwards she's usually shown in something more fitted. Steve: I thought Tik-Tok came from Ev, not Mo. In fact, I just checked and his manufacturing label says he was made at Smith & Tinker's works at Evna, in Ev. Rich: I wasn't aware that the copyright-extension issue was particularly partisan. Ruth: I'll have to see if the Naperville library has THE MOORCHILD in stock yet. Sounds good. Bear: I also have all the Digests (since I started getting them in late January) available one day at a time. At least until my hard drive starts getting more crowded than it is (and even then I'll probably just archive them to a Zip cartridge). Dave: There's not really that much of a Baumgean tradition of two-letter land names - Oz, Ev, Ix, and Mo are the only ones, and even Mo was originally Phunnyland. But you also have Hiland, Loland, Noland, Merryland, Rinkitink, Pingaree, Regos, Coregos, the Rose Kingdom, Boboland, Burzee, the Laughing Valley of Hohahoh...and those are just the ones I can remember from Baum. Let us know what happens when you write the IAU address. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:49:49 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Ozzy matters Happy birthday to you . . . Happy birthday to you. . . Happy Birthday, Dear Ozma, Happy birthday to you! Gili: As you probably know there are different "standards" of videotapes, and they are incompatable. Arerican television is NTSC and there are two other standards: PAL and SECAM. I do not know which of these is used in Israel. It is quite possible that the Urfin Jus tape would be unplayable on U.S. machines. Ken H: We call that cover the "slinky" OZMA. Does "hippikaloric" mean "hot horse"? And is that anything like "hot dog"? Anyone: Has anyone actually seen the Australian film OZ or TWENTIETH CENTURY OZ that came out in the 1980s? I have a sound track recording of it with a brief plot synopsis, but have never seen the film or spoken with anyone who has. Is it available on videotape? where? I notice that noone else suggested Tik-Tok as the immigrant. I still think he is the best bet (especially since Danny seems to have recently read OZMA). Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:48:19 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Eric G. (PARTIALLY not for inclusion) E.G.: > Well, it seems I've returned prematurely. All I'm getting now are > justafiable complaints about my posts. I apologize. I apologize to you as well, Eric. I had not realized that you were going to get so lambasted over this. My remarks were intemperate. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Ken H: I believe that Neill's daughters hold the copyrights. His books are a special case. Since the same person wrote and illustrated them, ownership is bundled into the same copyright. I do not know how to contact them, but perhaps some of the Club officers can. Steve: Not to be a nitpicker, but I am fairly sure that Tik-Tok came from Ev. The Wise Donkey (not an EC resident) came from Mo, as did his companion the Foolish Owl. Glinda: While debate goes on about Ozma's physical age, IMHO Glinda has consistently been portrayed as an adult woman in and out of the FF. Bear: As far as I know, using the get all mail command is not even accessible if the system finds no mail. Marriage in _SIr Harold and the Gnome King_: According to the book, Prince Evring ruled Ev as regent. The two countries were not united, and Evardo was still considered king of Ev, although he did not rule day-to-day. Their oldest child was the heir to the throne of Oz. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:57:58 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Copyright Law and Slinky Ozma All of the copyright discussion on the digest has been in reference to books, as far as I've seen--does anyone know if the number of years is the same for audio and film recordings? While the MGM film will undoubtedly be renewed whenever its time comes, there are several earlier movies and sound recordings which (if you could find them at all) could then be reproduced and made available openly without any legal hassles. > That Reilly & Lee volume from 1953 is still in excellent > shape and has a striking color picture of Ozma on the > cover in a red sheath dress. Even at age 6, it was > apparent to me that Ozma was no child. The drawing > looks more like Theda Bara. The drawing opposite the > flyleaf looks more like a 12 year old child version of > Ozma. Her appearance varies from image to image. It's the famous Slinky Ozma! :) It should be noted that that particular cover is not the first edition cover of the book. I forget when it originated, but it was much later on and at a time when Neill was drawing her more like a young woman than a little girl [as the series progresses, both Dorothy and Ozma appear to grow older in Neill's pictures even though they don't in the text; it's also interesting to note how Neill's Dorothy reflects the style of the time (I believe there was a Bugle article on this subject not too long ago)]. Ditto on the various covers of Emerald City. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:51:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Just a quick note. Chris Dulabone has been looking through my HACC and noticed that a lot of BEOO books that were listed as unavailable or unpublished are actually still around! Tin Castle, Lost Emeralds, Murder, Viking, Colorful KItten, Dagmar, Lunarr, Bungle, F.Funhouse, Osoenft, Reera, BB&TCase of the Outrageous and Murder are the titles that really are available for sale. Of these, I moost recommend _Red Reera_ , _Colorful Kitten_ and _Lunarr and Maureen_, but they are all good. Hopefully, some people will order these, read them and post reviews! :-) --Tyler ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:20:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Uz 1) Gili, Uz is identical to Edom and is (if memory serves me correctly) in what is now southern Jordan, near the Dead Sea. 2) Stephen, I believe that Tik-Tok is from Ev. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:07:41 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Random Thoughts FWIW, I always thought the Winkies were chanting "Oh-ee-oh, yo-ho". I think it's pretty clear it was nonsense syllables, considering that we all seem to have heard something different. (cf "The Murders in the Rue Morgue") But surely, all this talk of masks and distance is not germane, since the voices were pre-recorded and then artificially slowed down (as the Munchkin voices were speeded up) to get the desired sepulchral effect. Aladdin's mother: The Widow Twankey is the name of Aladdin's mother in the British panto version of "Aladdin", which is at least 100 years old. However, folklorically speaking, British pantos exist in a little pocket universe of their own. (Except for Prince Charming, who early on migrated from the panto "Cinderella" into general fairy-tale usage.) Peter, Many thanks for that very informative discussion of copyrights. I would only like to add, for those few who may not be aware of it, that under the *new*, (i.e. current) copyright law, the U.S. finally joined the rest of the world in holding a work in copyright until fifty years after the author's death, whenever that might be. Gave George Bernard Shaw no end of heartburn, the old U.S. law did. Eric G., Yes, we all have periods in our lives when even the words, "Hi, how ya doing?" cause us to snap the head off the nearest innocent bystander. If I might make a suggestion: write out your replies on your word processor, then save them and wait 24 hours. Read them over again. If you still like what you wrote, copy it over and send it then. We'll wait. -- Eleanor (we're ba-ack) Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:58:35 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-96 Equal time for _real_ science fiction: Dorothy: Susan Ivanova Scarecrow: John Sheridan Tin Woodman: Lennier Cowardly Lion: Vir Cotto Wizard: Londo Mollari Glinda: Delenn WWW: Talia Winters Guardian: Michael Garibaldi I'm stumped on Marcus Cole and Dr. Franklin, but I guess G'Kar can be the Hungry Tiger, and Morden the Nome King. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:26:06 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-96 In re: the Wizard as an American. Nebraska has been part of the United States since the Louisiana Purchase of 1803. That it was not a state until much later is neither here nor there. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:31:57 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-96 It ain't so about Jane Austen's relatives complaining. Some, when asked, said that they'd _like_ to be receiving royalties, but who wouldn't. By the way, speaking of "Peter Pan", its copyright _was_ extended perpetually, precisely because it is owned by the London Children's Hospital. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:41:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Eric - Everyone I know in teaching is newly retired or contemplating retirement in the near future. That should leave room for some new blood. Good luck. If teaching doesn't work out you have Microsoft there handy. I'll be here whenever you calm down. Barbara - If you work your way through Nesbit and Eager try Carol Kendall. I'm still seeking a couple of her books. You also might try Ken Cope for a T-shirt design. He is on our Digest too. I have seen his art and it is spectacular. MAD - Huh? uraproachintotlunintelgblty. Ken - You're sure right about Ozma's variability in OoO - p. 116 &144 she and Dorothy are the same height, p.166 & 171 she is about three inches taller than Dorothy. On the cover.... yeh, Theda Bara, 5 foot 4 inches. Aaron - Try p. 266 of OoO - Glinda looks like 30 something to me. Dave - Can you easily send me the Digest for the 18th? It must have been lost in the Compuserve Crunch. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 21-Aug-96 22:05:39 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things: A NEWCOMERS' KIND WORDS: Trisha Gedon wrote: >Also, I really enjoy reading the Digest each day. I'm learning lots >about the different Oz books. I have been a long-time fan of the MGM >version of the movie, but am excited to start learning about all of >the wonderful books available. I'm glad that you enjoy the Digest, and that it is building up your enthusiasm for Oz and the Oz Books! :) THE "SLINKY" OZMA: Nate wrote: >It's the famous Slinky Ozma! :) It should be noted that that particular >cover is not the first edition cover of the book. I forget when it >originated, but it was much later on and at a time when Neill was drawing >her more like a young woman than a little girl... Is this the same picture they hung up as a poster at last year's South Winkie Convention...She's wearing a sultry strapless, she's parting the curtains, and she looks like she's about to start belting out "One For My Baby"? :) ( Anyone who has that picture care to scan it for me? :) :) :) ) For other Ozma pictures that I'd consider "slinky", there's the picture of her riding the sawhorse on the cover of the Dover edition of _Emerald City_; the picture in _Magic_ where she's walking with the monkeys carrying her train; any picture of her in _Scalawagons_; and the IMHO most alluring of all, the portrait of her on page 8 (facing the "To My Readers Page") of _Tin Woodman_! Dan: And you all wonder why I flipped for her??? :) :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 23, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:41:43 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-96 >If you've only read the Thompson books through 1933 then you've missed most >of the ones I consider her best - OJO, SPEEDY, WISHING HORSE, HANDY MANDY, >and SILVER PRINCESS. Well, I do have OJO in Oz, guess that was the last one though. Look at it this way, I still get to read them for the first time. :-) Ken H. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:48:24 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-96 >We call that cover the "slinky" OZMA. Aptly named. I noticed it, even at age 6. >Does "hippikaloric" mean "hot horse"? And is that anything like "hot dog"? "Hippikaloric!" which must be a dreadful word because we don't know what it means. (p.226-227 The Scarecrow Wins the Fight--OZMA OF OZ) Knowing the gnomes fondness of things like molten mud, and in context with the prior exclamation "Smudge and blazes" I would expect that this would be some reference to the `ultimate' heat like superheated lava. Ken ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 03:11:33 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-96 >It's the famous Slinky Ozma! :) It should be noted that that particular >cover is not the first edition cover of the book. I forget when it >originated, but it was much later on and at a time when Neill was drawing >her more like a young woman than a little girl [as the series progresses, >both Dorothy and Ozma appear to grow older in Neill's pictures even >though they don't in the text; it's also interesting to note how Neill's >Dorothy reflects the style of the time (I believe there was a Bugle >article on this subject not too long ago)]. Ditto on the various covers >of Emerald City. > >Nate As per my comments, I received this book new in 1953. I only have duplicates of two books. This is one. The original cover has the Cowardly Lion walking through the O in OZ above a brick wall. Standing behind the wall are The Tin Woodman, Ozma, Dorothy, The Scarecrow. Looking around the sides are The Hungry Tiger (left) and Roquat (right) while Billina stands in front of the wall wearing a string of beads. A sign on the wall says: OZMA OF OZ tells more about DOROTHY AND THE SCARECROW AND THE TINE WOODMAN. Also about the new characters- THE HUNGRY TIGER, THE NOME KING, TICKTOK AND THE YELLOW HEN. Most of the illustrations in this particular published volume are in color. These are not the glossy color page inserts of other Oz volumes. The facing pages List of Chapters are particularly colorful. There are No color pictures inside the newer volume. I have no clue when this older book was bought, the only references are to the original publicaton date 1907. Price $1.75 Since my father was not born until 1916 I assume it was not a true `first edition' although all the Thompson books in our set undoubtedly are. Somehow, I prefer the slinky Ozma. The immigrants to Oz definately dress according to the period, especially the boys. The Neill drawings are what I base my mental images of the characters on. Ken H. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:15:46 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-96 Robin: Eureka seems to me the most probable possibility if Danny meant a this-world character who's resident in the EC but didn't originate in America, but there's no proof of the latter. This-world characters resident in the EC whose first (and only) trip to Oz didn't start in America would include Billina, Betsy, and Hank, though all presumably started their sea voyages from an American port. If "immigrant" includes originating elsewhere in Baumgea, Tik-Tok and Pigasus both qualify under the strictest interpretation. So OK, Danny, what's -your- answer? Trisha: Welcome to the Digest! The 2-CD set you're asking about is called "The Wizard of Oz - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - The Deluxe Edition". It's from Rhino Records, and a must-have for fans of the movie. Eleanor: I agree that the Winkie guards were just singing the vowels; my point was that whoever wrote the chant presumably knew that nothing would be heard but the vowels anyhow, so why bother to write in consonants? Up until 1906, I think it was, the US apparently didn't have any copyright law at all; I know that Gilbert & Sullivan lost two major court battles over pirated versions of "HMS Pinafore" and "Pirates of Penzance", with the courts ruling that publication or even public performance on stage automatically placed a work in the public domain. John: It would, it's true, be a technical objection, but the argument could be made that while the Wizard was born in territory belonging to the United States, he wasn't born in one of the United States. Dave: Yes, it's the same picture of Ozma they hung as a poster at the South Winkie convention last year. I may have to look for an edition of OZMA with that cover just to have the artwork; it's one of the best. I think Neill pretty much copied it in B/W for the illustration on p. 261 of PIRATES. (As he did the one from the 1929 EC cover in YELLOW KNIGHT. Not a wasteful man, J.R. Neill...) I think my single favorite picture of Ozma is the one on page 83 of WISHING HORSE. The one you like best in TW is certainly a sultry-looking lady, but she doesn't look much like Ozma to me. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:02:38 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: MO/EV Mea culpa, mea culla, mea maxima culpa! I was so proud to have realized that Tik-Tok was an immigrant to Oz that I fell into the pit of error and said he came from Mo when I knew he was an Evian. Pride goeth before the fall. BTW Danny, was ir Tik-Tok you were thinking of? John W. Kennedy: You are too esoteric for me. Who are Susan Ivanova et al? Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:51:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Dennis Amundson Subject: Lost Ozzy Digests A number of months back, I started gatewaying the digests to the Web. For those who have lost digests, you are welcome to grab the latest editions from the web page: http://rrnet.com/~djamund/misc/ozzy-digest/ (Dave: Hope this is still alright with you. I think I did get your permission originally to do this.) ------------------ Dennis J. Amundson Voice: (701) 232-2227, 239-2442 (home) Red River Net Fax: (701) 293-7009 PO Box 388 Internet: djamund@rrnet.com Fargo ND 58107-0388 ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:23:40 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest brain teaser Brain Teaser answer-- My question was asking, who is 1) an Emerald City resident, 2) an immigrant, who 3) did not "originate" from America? For those who answered Shaggy Man's brother, I would assume that he was from America, but does anyone know where he finally settled? I don't recall it being the EC. Also, what is his name, besides the Ugly One? (Must not be good for his self-esteem) I also wasn't looking for Eureka. While a good guess, Eureka's true origins remain a mysterey. The *theory* is that she came from Australia. (Of course, I think Cap'n Bill might have equal claim to that, with all his replies of "mate.") Congradulations, Steve! Yes, I was looking for Tik-tok, who immigrated from Ev. (I, too, thought the tip-off would be all my discussion about Ev in the same post!) For all who answered Pigasus, I might have to have you win by default. De fault being, of course, that I haven't read Pigasus, so I wasn't aware of this. IIRC, though, his book isn't FF, if that matters. I was also thinking-- How come there isn't much activity happening in the Gillikin counrty in Oz? (I'm thinking mostly Baum here.) Most of our hereos come from (or hang their hats in) Munchkin, Winkie, and Quadling areas. The only extensive exploration might be in the Animal Forest in MAGIC, and maybe some consideration of Oogaboo in TIKTOK, but other than that, not much happening. Sort of like Iowa. Better stop before you think I'm a silly Ozbul. Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:56:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest BEOO: For those of you who have not been to my web page, I wrote yesterday that there are several Buckethead Oz books that are indeed available even though I said they weren't. You can see all of them at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tyler_jones David and Rich: As far as I know, the copyright issue is not a partisan one, and I have never heard either major party speak on it. However, I have a gut feeling that "my" party has the attitude "Copyrights are assets that can be passed down through the generations forever", although the "other" party has displayed the "political power is passed down through the generations of specific families forever" attitude. Take your pick. Peter and Eleanor: I've heard of the death-plus-50 law, but I also heard that it was not retroactive. Therefore, other things apply to books written before the date it became law and also to authors who died before that date. If this law applies to Thompson, all her stuff goes PD in 2026. This law probably does not apply to Neill, since he has bene gone for more that 50 years. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:24:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-96 Scott C.: Snow's cat married Pixel and disappeared into "summer." MAD: ifindmslfagreeingwthbearyourpostsmakemyeyesachewhichisashamesincetheyre probablyinterestinghoweveriusuallygiveuponreadingthembecausetheyretoo muchformyoldeyes. "Slinky" Ozma: The cover Dave mentioned of Ozma on the sawhorse appeared on the label of EMERALD CITY in 1929, the same year Neill redrew her for the cover of OZMA. It looks like Neill decided to draw her as a flapper/vamp that year. The EMERALD CITY cover is sometimes referred to as the "sexy" Ozma. I don't know who started the nicknames, but I strongly suspect Jim Haff and/or Cal Dobbins and/or Dick Martin. Jim is the one who taught me the "nomenclature." Eager and Nesbit: I think Gili started the discussion when she mentioned her search for Eager books. I may have been the one who started the thread on Nesbit, since I associate Eager with her--mostly because Jim Haff introduced me to both authors in much the same time period. For those who missed all of that, essentially we were recommending both authors to folks who like Oz. ---Robin--only-176-more-days-in-the-school-year-to go--Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:44:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Regarding Nesbit - The readily available (paperback) versions of which I am aware are as follows, probably available at a good book store: The Book of Dragons The Story of the Amulet Five Children and It The Phoenix and the Carpet The Enchanted Castle John - You lost me, and possibly others. Who are all of those people and what is _real_ science fiction? Dave - Dan phooey, we know who really flipped for Ozma. :) Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:51:37 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Books of Wonder Someone recently inquired about Books of Wonder's new address, and today I received their "Books of Wonder News" in an envelope indicating it to be; 16 West 18th Street, New York, NY 10011. (despite the fact that the bottom of the News' first page still showed the old address.) This is a catalog of children's books in general, and The Moonchild, by Eloise McGraw is offered, with laid in signed bookplate, at $16.00. Nate: I agree regarding the "slinky" Ozma on the '29 cover of Ozma of Oz. And it would appear that Neill, at that time at least, considered her to be in her late teens, at the earliest. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:29:22 -0600 From: tallison@mcs.com (Tim Allison) Subject: Baltimore While at the Ozfest I met a couple of potential members from Baltimore. Is there anyone on the list from that general area who could give them a call? I think that would be friendlier than just giving them the Club address, although I would also appreciate knowing what the current address is. TIA Carol Mitchell ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 24, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 02:25:18 -0600 From: khackney@hub.ofthe.net (Kenneth Hackney) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-23-96 >For all who answered Pigasus, I might have to have you win by default. >De fault being, of course, that I haven't read Pigasus, so I wasn't >aware of this. IIRC, though, his book isn't FF, if that matters. > Whoa! Even I have heard of Pigasus, and I never worked my way through all the FF. Pigasus appears in PIRATES IN OZ (RPT 1931). This character is a favorite play on words. A great full page picture of Pigasus drinking a cup of coffee appears in midbook. Numerous others throughout. Ken ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:01:05 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-23-96 Robin Olderman wrote: >Scott C.: Snow's cat married Pixel and disappeared into "summer." Huh? I thought Jack's cat was named "Himself". Odd name, but a good source of jokes. sdc ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:52:45 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: OZMA cover Ken H: The Ozma cover you describe was not the "original" cover, the original OZMA cover, like the original covers of WONDERFUL WIZARD, MARVELOUS LAND, and ROAD, was embossed cloth. The cover has a large OZ with Dorothy and Ozma stamding by it. I believe the picture you describe was used on the paper dust jacket for that edition (I do NOT have a dust jacket of the 1st OZMA), and was later adapted as the paper label when the embossed covers were discontinued. The book you would need to get all the points is BIBLIOGRAPHIA OZIANA, published by IWOC (see http://www.NeoSoft.com/~iwoc/clubpubs.html/ homepage http://www.ozclub.org/~iwoc/). Gotta go to class now. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:48:54 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Scott C.: Snow's cat was an Irish cat, said Snow, and named Himself (in the Irish idiom, the chief person of the household). (Information from Snow's Who's Who in Oz.) David Hulan: The U.S. had a copyright law before 1906. The trouble with it was that it did not recognize copyright in other countries as valid in the US, so that works published elsewhere and copyrighted elsewhere could be freely pirated by American publishers. On theories of who wrote the Winkie guards' chant -- my guess would be either Harold Arlen as composer or Herbert Stothardt (I don't think I'm spelling that correctly) as arranger. The very precise "O-Ee-Yah! Eoh-Ah" of Michael Patrick Hearn's edition of the script is hardly likely to have been something that any of the script-writers would have specified, and (I would guess) must be Michael's own transcription. What the script-writers wrote might have been something on the order of "Yeo heave ho, yeo ho," but since the sounds would have to be something appropriate to the music, it's more likely that the script-writers never wrote anything specific for the chant, but left the choice up to whoever wrote the music. Danny: You described Pigasus as not being from the FF books. I think you meant: not from Baum? Thompson's Pirates in Oz, and Wishing Horse, where Pigasus is again a major character, are among the FF. Your description of Baum's Gillikin scenes -- besides the Animal Forest (Magic) and Oogaboo (Tik-tok), there is the territory around Mombi's cottage (Land). Later Oz authors had a lot more Gillikin scenes, in part, precisely because there was more geography left open. Tyler Jones: the "death plus 50" part of the new copyright law is not retroactive to works in copyright before the law was passed, but another part of it is retroactive. The "death plus 50" part is actually "death plus 50 or 75 years from date of publication, whichever is longer." The "75 years" part is retroactive, and keeps the later Oz books covered for some time yet. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:30:06 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-23-96 Ken H.: I realized after I sent the message off that OJO was published in 1933, so you probably had that one. You can look forward to reading the others, though. SPEEDY and WISHING HORSE are available in very nice editions with color plates from the IWOC; CAPTAIN SALT (which some people like very much, though I'm less enthusiastic about it myself) and HANDY MANDY are available in PB from Books of Wonder (and should be at your local Borders; they're at mine). I think the IWOC also has those two and SILVER PRINCESS available; I forget whether they're HC only, PB only, or both. (None of the books after WISHING HORSE ever had color plates.) OZMA and PATCHWORK GIRL were both originally published with colored interior illustrations, but not plates. The older edition of OZMA you have can probably be dated by checking the list of other Oz books available on the second page (not counting the endpaper). My copy lists books through KABUMPO, which indicates that it's probably a 1922 printing. Danny: We don't know for sure where the Shaggy Man's brother settled, but we know Shaggy himself settled in the EC (though he also wandered a lot) and there's no reason to believe that his brother would have gone elsewhere. As far as I recall, he was only mentioned once more in the FF, when he accompanied Shaggy and others to search for Ozma in LOST PRINCESS. And he's never named in the FF, but I believe that he was named "Wiggy" in the play "The Tik-Tok Man of Oz". And Pigasus is definitely FF, though not Baum. He first appears in PIRATES and has a major role in WISHING HORSE. And he originated outside Oz (he was a creation of the Red Djinn), and lives in the EC by the evidence in WH. Actually, there's a lot of activity in the Gillikin Country, even in Baum. LAND opens there, and Tip, Mombi, Jack Pumpkinhead, and the Sawhorse are all from that country. Then there's not much other activity there until TIN WOODMAN, but Woot is a Gillikin, and the adventures with the Loons, Mrs. Yoop, and the jaguar and dragons all take place in that country. And much of MAGIC and almost all of GLINDA are set in the Gillikin Country as well. (Oogaboo, however, is in the Winkie Country, though in its far northwestern corner.) And Thompson uses the Gillikin Country at least as much as any other region, I think. KABUMPO, LOST KING, GNOME KING, GIANT HORSE, PURPLE PRINCE, HANDY MANDY, and SILVER PRINCESS all have major segments set there. Tyler: The "death plus 50" law applies only to books copyright after the new law went into effect; the author's date of death is immaterial. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:56:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-23-96 in other oz news today i got lucky my friend found a whole box of unopened oz valintines which she gave me casue i collect oz stuff pretty cool huh hugs anthony van p yre ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:44:58 -0400 From: Homer I am the proud owner of The Wizard of Oz Collector's Treasury, a rather pricy book, but definetely worth it. The appraisals in it aren't directly in the book, but rather on a seperate sheet which lists page number, location, then the price. I assumed this was so the prices could be updated. Does anyone who has this book know if you have to write in each year to get the new price sheet, or will they just send it to you? ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:32:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest A non-Ozzy question: Does anybody live in an area where they still sell Coca-Cola in the traditional glass bottles? It does taste better this way, I swear! :-) --Tyler JOnes ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:32:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Danny: I believe, in a non-FF book, Shaggy's brother was named "Wiggy". Also, while it is never stated exactly where he lived, he was mentioned as _Lost Princess_ and _Magic_, and it is not likely that he would anywhere else, since he does not know anyone in Oz besides the EC crowd. Danny and the Gilikins: I've always wondered about the GIliking country. It's true that Baum rarely went there until _Magic_, apart from a quickie in _Land_. We had some time there in _Glinda_, _Kabumpo_, _Giant Horse_ (small amount), _Purple Prince_ (small amount), and a few others. However, you are correct when you point out that the purple country gets vey little playing time. In Baum's books, he used to mention that the Gilikin country was the most unknown, mountainous, mysterious and dangerous place in Oz. He never went into any specific detail, and later authors never picked it up. I am not sure of the balance in non-FF books, but maybe a whole host of Ozzy adventures in the Gilikin country are just around the corner... Also, for the record, Oogaboo is in the very northwest corner of the Winkie Country, although it is not too far from the Gilikins. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:07:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Winkie march There's something else I just noticed about the Winkie march. The repeated D-minor sixth chord that establishes the rhythm of the march [dum dum DUM (thunk!), dum da dadada DUM (thunk!)] is exactly the same chord as the spine-tingling hourglass chord that you hear every time Dorothy looks at the sand running out of the top half of the hourglass. In the march the chord is transposed down one octave. It's a great effect: it conveys the idea that the Witch is creating a kind of continuum of terror that links Dorothy's experiences with those of her friends outside the castle. BTW: Paul Nathanson is not quite accurate in saying that the open fifth (A-E-A) of the chant makes it impossible to tell whether the march is in a major or minor key. The D-minor sixth chord that accompanies the chant is comprised of notes that are all in the key of A minor, not A major, so the tonality is experienced as minor. (To complicate things, a jaunty little theme in A major is superimposed on the chant a little later on, so the march is briefly both major and minor at the same time!) Another thing you can hear on the CD but not on the soundtrack is a snatch of Miss Gulch's bicycle music playing above the chant in a totally unrelated key--a moment of really brutal bitonality. I too have long been fascinated by that improbable cover of Ozma in her form-fitting strapless red outfit and her alluring come-up-and-see-me-sometime pose. It's a hoot that you all have officially named this picture the Slinky Ozma. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:00:04 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-23-96 Carol Mitchell: > > While at the Ozfest I met a couple of potential members from Baltimore. Is > there anyone on the list from that general area who could give them a call? I am from Baltimore (well, actually, about 2 blocks from the city limit). I would be happy to call. Of course, it might seem hypocritical (or even "hippikalorical") to extol the virtues of IWOC when I am not myself a member (and let's not re-open that can of worms, OK?) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 20:58:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls There used to be a Carlton E. Morse radio program called I LOVE A MYSTERY. One of the characters, Doc Long, played by Tony Randall, referred to any large beast as a "hippinocerus," an obvious combination of hippopotamus and rhinocerous. Taking a cue from Long, I think "hippikaloric" must be a modifier for something really fattening like a banana split. Happy weekend all, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 20:33:55 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-23-96 The United States HAD a copyright law. It just didn't particularly apply to d*mn foreigners. In fact, as far as I can tell, the recent, long overdue conformance to the Berne Convention, recognized by the civilized world for donkey's years, was probably triggered by the Tolkien scandal of 1965-66. A foreign author, writing in English, lost all chance of a US copyright on a book if more than 1,000 copys printed out of the US were imported. Ace took advantage of this to issue an unauthorized paperback edition of "The Lord of the Rings", previously available only in a hardbound Houghton-Mifflin edition assembled from sheets printed in the UK for the Allen Unwin edition. Although the abominable US law was on Ace's side, the hue and cry raised over the matter (helped along by Ballantine's hurriedly produced authorized edition) caused them to drop their edition after the first printing. The Ballantine went on to become one of the greatest best sellers of all time, and permanently established the house as a major force in SF and fantasy. (Del Rey is a Ballantine imprint.) * * * Cap'n Bill says "mate" because he's a sailor, not out of any "Strine" habit. * * * Susan Ivanova, Delenn, et al., are from "Babylon 5", which is not only the finest SF series on television, but the greatest work of Art-with-a-capital-A ever executed in the TV-series form. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" P.S. I never meant to imply that the life+50 rule *was* retroactive, merely that this is now the law as it applies to current works, so, for example, (getting back to Oz), even though Eric Shanower was 20-or-so when he wrote "Enchanted Apples", he will never see his copyright expire even though he live to be 120 (which we all devoutly wish). -- Eleanor ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:02:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-23-96 Danny: LAND has some action in the Gillikin Country. Pigasus is most certainly a FF character. He first shows up in PIRATES and has a starring role in WISHING HORSE. That pig's a hero, he is, he is. I'm ashamed that I didn't think of him right away, since he's one of my favorite characters. ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 25, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:05:52 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Re: Winkie Soldiers Chant I talked to Michael Hearn today, and he confirms that the soldier's CHANT IS JUST MEANINGLESS SYLLABLES, as documented in "The Oz Screen Play." Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:04:43 -0200 From: amyjones@MindSpring.COM (Amy Jones) Subject: Ozzy Digest >A non-Ozzy question: >Does anybody live in an area where they still sell >Coca-Cola in the traditional glass bottles? >--Tyler JOnes A quick non-Ozzy answer: You can buy Coca-Cola however you want in Atlanta,including in the glaa bottles. I agree, it is the best. __Amy JOnes ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:28:09 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-24-96 Ruth (and John): I was basing my comment on pre-1906 US copyright law on Martyn Green's notes about PIRATES OF PENZANCE; even though the world premiere was in New York, the courts ruled that the fact of its public performance put it into public domain. Maybe this was just the case for stage presentations? Or maybe Green was wrong in his facts? Tyler: You could still buy Coca-Cola in the traditional glass bottles in California as recently as a couple of years ago, I know, though only at a few places. I found them at Smart and Final (a discount food chain founded by a Mr. Smart and Mr. Final, oddly enough). And I think you can still buy it that way in the South. I don't drink Coke myself, and since my mother stopped drinking it as well a year or so ago I've had no occasion to look for it, so I can't speak for Today. I don't think the Gillikin Country gets materially less play in the Oz books overall than the Quadling Country. It's true that the Winkie Country seems to be the favorite, followed by the Munchkin. Perhaps there's a small paper in this... John: In fairness to Ace, they tried to get authorization to publish a PB edition of LOTR, but Tolkien and/or Houghton Mifflin weren't interested. Then they found out that legally they didn't have to get permission, so they went ahead and published it anyway. And Ballantine had been a major force in SF and fantasy publishing for over a decade before that, though their publication of LOTR in the Authorized Edition didn't hurt. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:22:35 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-24-96 ....Was just in Las Vegas a few days ago--stayed at the MGM Grand because I thought my 7-year old daughter might get a kick out of the Oz decorations (she's never been there before). However, when we went to the area where the "Emerald City" is supposed to be, we found it was hidden by a huge wall! Although it was difficult to tell by peaking through, it appeared it might be gone--or they were remodeling (it seemed like EVERYBODY was either building or remodeling). I was unable then to ask what was going on (although I realize now I was certainly in an excellent position to do so). Does anyone here have any info? Thanks, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:42:01 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Ozzy matters Homer: The inserted price guide in the COLLECTOR'S TREASURY was a one time thing, not an annual event. As far as I know Bill Stillman and Jay Scarfone have no intention of issuing updates. I've had the book since it came out and never heard of an update. Tyler: is the GIliking country a territory where the like GI's (Just a little friendly ribbing, I've made so many goofs in the Digest that I am glad to find myself in good company). Gordon: We have very "unofficially" called that cover the "Slinky" Ozma. Eleanor: I have a slight perception that you like "Babylon 5." Of course, I could be mistaken. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 15:03:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Shaggy's Brother: He was a guest at Ozma's birthday party in _MAgic_. This party was much smaller and more scaled down than the bash in _Road_. While his presence does not prove he lives in EC (some other guests from outside EC were also there), it suggests that he might. As others have pointed out, there is no other logical place for him to live, unless he wants to be a farmer in the wide open spaces. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 18:29:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Homer - Please send more details about "The Wizard of Oz Collector's Treasury" I have never heard of it. Tyler - Last place I saw Coke in a bottle was in Mexico. In case you don't know, I believe Coke is manufactured locally, using local water. So, watch out. I can remember when my grandfather bought bottles of Coke syrup and made his own Coke with soda water. I agree, bottles were better. It was always interesting to look at the bottum and see where the bottle was made. At least they brought back "Classic" Coke after enough of us went ballistic. At the time I had about three cases of the large bottles stored up. By the way, if any of you are looking for a stock tip, Coke is a great buy now. Just ask a broker. Where's Gili? Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:18:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-24-96 Scott C.: Pixel is a Heinlein cat who first appears, I think, in THE DOOR INTO SUMMER. Actually, I can't remember if the Heinlein cat is male or female, so maybe Himself didn't go into Heinleinland. MAD: Much better/easier with spaces between words. Thanks. Homer:Jay and Bill do not automatically send out updates on the price list. I don't know if updated lists are even available. Gordon: Too cool! Gotta listen to the Winkie march and WWW thing again! Just in case we've never mentioned it in the DIGEST before, "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" and "There's No Place Like Home" fit together very well, kinda like "Picnic" and "Moonglow." Rob-Roy MacVeigh told us that one year, we commandeered Patty Tobias' piano-playing hands, and a bunch of us scurried to the nearest piano. He was right. I *think* there's even a subtle touch of it in the score, but I'm not a WIZARD-MGM movie-maven and am not sure of that. (I am, however, almost fanatic about the genre of movie musicals...). --Robin ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 26, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:41:33 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-96 To those in central OHIO: I noticed a mention in The Columbus Dispach of a performance of THE LAND OF OZ this past Saturday (somewhere up near Sawmill Road). Does anyone know anything about it? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 10:59:17 -0400 From: Homer The Wizard of Oz Collector's Treasury is A MUST for Oz Collectors! It retails for about $60, but it is a large hardcover book, chock full of information. There is an in-depth history of Oz collecting in the beginning, and then the rest of the book shows and tells about very nearly every collectible you would want to find (or at least something like it) in clear, large pictures. This book is Fantastic! You can order it from BoW, but I got it straight from the publisher. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:46:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-96 My assumption is that the nonsense syllables Michael Patrick Hearn transcribed for his edition of the MGM Wizard of Oz screenplay were from the shooting script. The film's editor, Blanche Sewell, prepared the cutting continuity (the guide to film splicers responsible for repairing broken film out on the road). The transcription there is "Yooo-heee-hoo! Yo-ho!" The transcription in the 1990 Portland House published edition (almost certainly a poor transcription) is: "Yooo-hoo-hoo! Yo-ho!" Peter ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 14:21:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Dave - Thanks for the 18th Digest - There were a lot of good posts in it and now I see why there has been no Gili lately. Gili - If and when you catch up, why do you have to translate Ozma's name into Hebrew? Can't she be Ozma in a Hebrew text? For that matter, language experts, is it common in any language to translate proper names? Weekend regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 14:37:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: OZ -n-stuff From: Barbara DeJohn THE BASTABLES by Nesbit is a combination of the Treasure Seekers and The Wouldbegoods. Dave, did you mean by badge a button with a pin back or a sew on badge like a patch? I will check on the cost of those also. I definitely would like the art sent to me do you still have my snail-mail? Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 13:44:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-96 > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Homer - Please send more details about "The Wizard of Oz Collector's Treasury" > I have never heard of it. I discuss the book at length, and how to get a copy, in section 9 of the FAQ on my web page. (For those of you without access to the world wide web, I'm very nearly done with version 1.1 of the FAQ now, and I will try to make it available in places other than the WWW. Anyone have an FTP site they'd like to keep it at?) --Eric "Gently sticking my toes back in the water in the hopes that I don't stick my foot in my mouth again" Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 16:30:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-96 MGM Grand: Scott, several folks at Winkies mentioned that the hotel is, indeed, retheming. Apparently you and I missed that particular Oz opportunity. Wasn't there anything Ozzy left at all? Where *IS* Gili? ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 17:53:04 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-96 Hmm - short Digest this time, and absolutely nothing in the way of a comment hook. Reverting to some comments from the day before, though, I took the time to mentally go through the FF for adventures in the various countries. And came to the conclusion that so far from being neglected, the Gillikin country is the dominant locale in more books than any of the other Oz countries, being beaten out only by outside Oz proper. On the other hand, when it isn't the dominant locale, it's more often virtually ignored than any of the other countries. I set the following categories: Dominant - more than half the book takes place in that locale. Major - more than a quarter, but less than half the book. Minor - more than two chapters, but less than a quarter. Slight - some action, but no more than two chapters. Ignored - no action in that locale. Based on that, I got the following results: Dominant: Outside - 14; Gillikin - 6; Munchkin - 4; Winkie - 3; Quadling - 2; Emerald City - 1 Major: Emerald City - 10; Outside - 9; Gillikin - 5; Munchkin - 5; Winkie - 5; Quadling - 5 Minor: Emerald City - 14; Winkie - 7; Quadling - 4; Outside - 3; Munchkin - 2; Gillikin - 1 Slight: Emerald City - 12; Outside - 9; Winkie - 6; Quadling - 5; Munchkin - 2; Gillikin - 2 Ignored: Munchkin - 26; Gillikin - 26; Quadling - 22; Winkie - 19; Outside - 5; Emerald City - 3 So the Gillikin country really fares quite well in terms of books in which more than a quarter of the book takes place in a given locale; with 11 books, it ties the Emerald City and beats all the other regions within Oz. On the other hand, if it isn't a major locale, it usually isn't visited at all - the opening of LAND and the short visits in GNOME KING and WONDER CITY (in which all the countries are visited on the Ozcalator) are the only cases of minor or slight uses of that land. Maybe this is why it seems neglected. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 15:14:23 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuf Pigasus-- I apologize for not realizing Pigasus my have had a life before his own self-titled book. I apologize also for any lack of non-Baum Oz info. that I have may have portrayed mistakenly, and for any that I know I will in the future. I'm trying to make my way through the FF, but the task is just about as mountainous and mysterious as the Gillikin country itself! If "Oz" means "great and good" in the ancient language, (said somewhere in WIZARD) do the other areas of Oz have meanings? Some ideas: Munchkin-- farmland Winkie-- metals Gillikin-- Mountains Quadling-- "little four" :) a more logical idea would be: Munckin-- blue winkie-- yellow, you get the idea :) Other theories including-- naming the lands according to the witches (or maybe other rulers!) who ruled them. (right, Gili? :) ) And, of course, Gillikin as the place where GI's are liked. :) BTW, Cap'n Bill as Australian is just from my own theories. This is just the way I like to read his dialogue. After all, I argue to myself, (don't worry, I don't do it often) if he says "mate" because he's a sailor, why doesn't he say "matey" instead? Not to mention his lack of "argh"s and any eyepatch or parrot. . . :) :) :) Sigh. Too much Hollywood. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 23:30:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The HI/RCC Tyler has recently thrown some books out of the HACC, and as maintainer of the HI/RCC, I have added them into the latest HI/RCC, which is included below for all fans of heretical Oz books. While I'm at it, can anyone give me a way to tell the difference between the two versions of _Return to Oz_? Barry and I used to have one of them, but we excised the photos from the movie and traded it at a used book store. --- The HI/RCC The Historically Inaccurate/Rejected Chronological Chain of Oz compiled by Aaron Solomon Adelman (adelman@yu1.yu.edu) with help from those who receive and contribute to the Ozzy Digest Mailing List (contact DAVEH47@delphi.com to subscribe) Universe II: March Laumer's Oz (Baum-Thompson-Neill-Consistent) 1910 Uncle Henry and Aunt Em in Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1911 The Careless Kangaroo of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1943 The Magic Mirror of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1943A The Vegetable Man of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1946 The Frogman of Oz March Laumer, et al. Vanitas Press WARNING: This book is not suitable for children. 1953 The Umbrellas of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1978 The Green Dolphin of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press WARNING: This book is not suitable for children. 1982 Aunt Em and Uncle Henry in Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1983 The Good Witch of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1983A In Other Lands than Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1987 The Charmed Gardens of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1988 A Fairy Queen in Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1989 The China Dog of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1990 The Crown of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1998 The Ten Woodmen of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1999 A Farewell to Oz March Laumer, Gerald Langa, and Anita McGrew Vanitas Press ???? An Orphan in Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press Note: Probably nonexistent. ???? Jim the Cab Horse in Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press Note: Probably nonexistent. ???? The Cloud King of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press ???? Beenie in Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press Universe III: Oz among Other Fictional Worlds (Baum-Thompson-Quasi-Consistent) 1961 "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" (in The Enchanter Reborn) L. Sprague de Camp and Christopher Stasheff WARNING: This story is not suitable for children. Universe IV: Aaron Solomon Adelman's Absurd Oz 1996 The Evil Author of Oz Aaron Solomon Adelman Contact the author at adelman@yu1.yu.edu for a copy. Universe V: Marcus Mebes's Absurd Oz ???? Radioactive Teddy Bear from Hell Destroys Oz Marcus Mebes and Peter Sandbothe Universe VI: Oz According to Some People Who Don't Know Dorothy Eventually Went to Live in Oz (FF-Inconsistent) ???? Dorothy Returns to Oz Shawn Billman, et. al. Buckethead Universe VII: Goodwin's Magic Land (FF-Inconsistent) 1937 The Wizard of the Emerald City Alexander Volkov Included in Tales of Magic Land I (Peter L. Blystone, trans., Red Branch Press) 1938 Urfin Jus and His Wooden Soldiers Alexander Volkov The Wooden Soldiers of Oz (Mary G. Langford, trans., Opium Books) Included in Tales of Magic Land I (Peter L. Blystone, trans., Red Branch Press) 1939 The Seven Underground Kings Alexander Volkov The Underground Kings of Oz (March Laumer, trans., Opium Books) Included in Tales of Magic Land II (Peter L. Blystone, trans., Red Branch Press) ???? The Fiery God of the Marrans Alexander Volkov Included in Tales of Magic Land II (Peter L. Blystone, trans., Red Branch Press) ???? The Yellow Fog Alexander Volkov A Yellow Fog over Oz (Chris Dulabone, trans., Buckethead ???? The Mystery of the Forgotten Castle Alexander Volkov The Forgotten Castle of Oz (Chris Dulabone, adaptor, Buckethead) ???? The Emerald Rain Yuri Koznitchov Not translated from Russian to English yet. Universe VIII: Amariiki (FF-Inconsistent) 1923 A Barnstormer in Oz Phillip José Farmer Berkley Books WARNING: This book is not suitable for children. Universe IX: Gregory Maguire's Oz (FF-Inconsistent) 1899 Wicked: the Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West Gregory Maguire Regan Books/HarperCollins WARNING: This book is not suitable for children. Universe X: Thomas L. Tedrow's Oz (FF-Inconsistent) 1965 Dorothy--Return to Oz Thomas L. Tedrow FamilyVision Press WARNING: This book is not suitable even for use as toilet paper. Universe XI: World as Myth (FF-Quasi-Consistent) 2010 The Number of the Beast Robert Heinlein Fawcett Gold Medal WARNING: This book is not suitable for anyone. Universe XII: Oswaldoland (FF-Inconsistent) 1868 Seven Day Magic Edward Eager Harcourt, Brace, and World, Inc. Universe XIII: The Stupid Psychologist's Oz 1899 Dorothy and the Lizard of Oz Richard A. Gardner Creative Therapeutics Universe XIV: MGM and Disney's Oz, Version 1 (FF-Inconsistent) 1900 Return to Oz Joan D. Vinge Universe XV: MGM and Disney's Oz, Version 2 (FF-Inconsistent) 1900 Return to Oz Alistair Hedley Universe XVI: Donald Abbott's Historically Inaccurate Oz (Baum-Consistent) 1868 How the Wizard Came to Oz Donald Abbott Books of Wonder / Emerald City Press Major Publisher Universe XVII: W.W. Denslow's Historically Inaccurate Oz 1901 Denslow's Scarecrow and Tinman W.W. Denslow Buckethead Small Press Universe XVIII: L. Frank Baum's Discarded Version of Oz (The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and The Marvelous Land of Oz-Consistent) 1902 The Third Book of Oz "Queer Visitors from the Land of Oz"/The Visitors from Oz + The Wogglebug Book L. Frank Baum Buckethead Small Press Universe XIX: Kenneth Gage Baum's Oz 1940 The Dinamonster of Oz Kenneth Baum Buckethead Small Press Universe XX: Marcus Mebes's Dream of Oz 1993 Sail Away to Oz Marcus Mebes Palo Verde Emeralds Unavailable Universe XXI: Tyler Jones's Absurd Oz 1996 A Generic Oz Story Tyler Jones --- Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 27, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 06:59:27 -0400 (EDT) From: James R Whitcomb Subject: Re: MGM Grand Oz Themes I have been following a thread on the alt.travel.las-vegas newsgroup re: the refurbishing of the MGM Grand and the "elimination" of much of the Oz theme, if not all of it. The thread is named appropriately enough, "Surrender Dorothy" for anyone who is interested in trying to find it. I don't know how many people on the digest had the opportunity to visit the MGM Grand to see the Emerald City, but I was very impressed. I hope they at least keep the Emerald City Giftshop for those of us who like to buy Ozzy collectibles when we travel. I know they are getting rid of the Emerald City and all the animatronic characters and the laser light show depicting the cyclone. I heard they were renaming the "Winged Monkey Cafe" and were going to "out-source" the Oz Buffet, as well as other eateries, in order to save money. So, the Oz Buffet may be going to bite the dust also. It makes me sick to think they will get rid of those beautiful, colorful murals depicting the land of Oz that surrounds the the entire restaurant. If I ever get my act together, I am currently designing my own web site with an Oz theme. It is going to have three major categories. My Oz collectibles, my Ozzy adventures in Las Vegas (including the MGM Grand and the Wizard of Oz on Ice show that I saw there on 4/21/96), and my adventures meeting a munchkin (Meinhardt Raabe) in Columbus a couple years ago. I hope to include photos of the MGM Grand Oz stuff including the Emerald City and the animatronic characters. As soon as I figure out how to get all of this on my web page I will be sure to let everyone know! Jim:) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:57:09 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: License Plate I was driving yesterday behind a car with the license plate "TOTO TOO". Perhaps I should have followed him/her; I don't know any Oz fans on the Island as of yet :) Nate ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 06:33:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-26-96 > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: The HI/RCC > > Universe II: March Laumer's Oz (Baum-Thompson-Neill-Consistent) > > 1983A In Other Lands than Oz > March Laumer > Vanitas Press "In Other Lands than Oz" is actually an anthology of short stories, many of which do not take place in any sort of Oz-iverse at all. To be truly accurate (or at least inaccurately accurate), you'd probably want to read all of the Ozzy short stories and date them individually. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:49:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The names of the countries of Oz Danny, as far as the names of the countries of Oz go, the suffixes -kin, -ie, and -ling probably indicate ethnicities, while the roots of the names (Munch, Gilli, Wink, Quad) are old names for regions or ruling houses. In _The Woozy of Oz_ there appears King Stan of the House of Munch (who lost his title of King of the Munchkins to Cheeriobed), and I've been having thoughts of making Glinda of the House of Quad. If there ever was a House of Wink, its last members were probably killed off by Bastinda, and perhaps the ruling family of Gilkenny is of the House of Gilli. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:12:47 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-26-96 Bear: Some degree of translation of names is needed when two languages are written with different alphabets. And in particular when a name in the original language has a word in that language embedded in it, it's useful if not necessary to embed a similar word in the language that it's translated into. I don't know who originally chose "Utz" as the Hebrew version of "Oz", but apparently it's become well-enough established that Gili would have a hard time straying from it (assuming she wanted to). That being the case, it wouldn't make sense for Ozma to be "Ozma" in Hebrew; the connection with Oz would be lost. Me: I should have been clearer, probably, that I didn't go through the books and count chapters, but went by my memory of roughly how much of a book took place in a given country. I don't think I'm wrong on my "dominant" and "major" categories, but a few of the "minors" might have been "major", and a few of the "slights" might have been "minors". Danny: I think it was DOTWIZ where it was said that "Oz" meant "great and good" in the old language. (Actually, I know it was, because I just checked. In fact, Ozma says it meant that "in our language", which is a bit puzzling since the language of Oz was always depicted as being English.) It seems unlikely that the names of the regions would all have English diminutive endings if they meant something as whole words. MOPPeT is that the diminutives are just that, and that the regions are named for early rulers whose "children" they were. In my short story "The Gauds of Oz" I hypothesized a Good King Winkeslas that the Winkie country was named for; one could also easily hypothesize an early King Munch, for whom Mount Munch was named directly and the country with the diminutive, and a King or Queen Quad, for whom the lake was named directly and the country with the diminutive. There's less evidence for the Gillikin country's origin (or the Winkies, in the FF), but one might hypothesize a Queen Gili... I doubt Cap'n Bill as Australian; "mate" is certainly common there, but it's usually pronounced "mite", and Baum was certainly given to phonetic spellings of his characters' dialog, including Cap'n Bill. And the rest of his diction doesn't seem to follow the Strine pattern at all. To the extent that it seems to have any regional character, it seems to me to be somewhere in the Ohio Valley, though I doubt if Baum has a specific regional accent in mind. (It's not unlikely, though, that he had the speech pattern of someone he knew in mind.) Aaron: Why do you say "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" isn't suitable for children? It's not written for children, of course, but I don't recall anything in it that even the most blue-nosed censor would think children shouldn't read. (I haven't reread it lately, though; maybe I'm forgetting something.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:42:42 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Danny: The Munchkin, Winkie, and Quadling names sound as if based on English (or Latin) roots -- eating, wink, and 4th. Your suggestion of farmland and metals for the first two might fit with those (farm-eating connection is obvious, and metal when polished might be bright enough to make people wink)? As I commented in the "Who's who in Oz appendix" I published, Thompson in Giant Horse, where she makes Orin the daughter of a past king, King Gil of Gilkenny, may have been thinking that the king and his kingdom name came from a dynasty of kings in the area and that the Gillikins could have taken their name from that dynasty. (If so, her King Gil would be the otherwise un-named King of the Gillikins mentioned by Baum in Ozma and Road.) David Hulan: Writing at work, I can't check immediately as to background of "Pirates of Penzance" copyright, but will try to remember to look it up again later. (I sort of remember, but not in enough detail to comment.) An earlier comment about a portrait of Ozma in Tin Woodman put me in a mood to re-read it. Query: anybody have any theories on who the witch or fairy was whose gift of a wish got Tommy Kwikstep in trouble? The gift doesn't seem to have been made with the intention of hurting him, so it probably wasn't any of the Wickeds. Maybe Good Witch of the North or Gayelette, or possibly even Lurline? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:18:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest David: Your research seems to indicate that, in the few books that use the Gilikin country as the main location, it really dominates. If some other country takes precedence, then the Gilikin country vanishes into thin air. Danny: No need to appologize for lack of non-Baum knowledge. However, I am a little unclear about something that you said. You mentioned a "self-titled book". I do not know of a _Pigasus in Oz_. Was this just a typo, or is there a new Oz book out there that I do not know about? Names are not taken from a vacuum. I believe that the names of the four quadrants may have meant something once, but there is no clue anywhere in or out of the FF, except for Onyx Madden's _The Mysterious Chronicles of Oz_. Madden claimed that the four quadrants had a common name as well: Munchkin : Land of Sky Blue Waters. Winkies : The Golden West. Quadling : Rosewood Meadows. Gilikin : Land of Purple Mountains. Madden does not specifically say that this is a translation, but it may be. As for the witch theory, it is possible, but evidence indicates that the Wicked Witches did not necessarily rule all of their quadrants. Aaron: Thanks for including my Generic Oz story in your HI/RCC. BTW, it may be possible to combine Universes XVI - XIX and maybe even XXI. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 19:21:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Homer - Thanks for the info on the book. Aaron - You missed "Was." I don't know where you want to put it. I have an idea, but this is a Digest suitable for children. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:58:29 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-96 I don't know whether Gilbert and Sullivan were cheated merely because they were foreigners, or if the fact that it was a stage production was sufficient for an American playwright to be robbed, too. Books on the subject always give the events, but never give a serious discussion of the legal arguments. Stage copyright was a hot issue in many countries, though. (Charles Reade, for example, got very angry when his novels were adapted as plays without royalties to him, but saw nothing wrong when he translated French plays and didn't pay anything to the authors of the originals. He claimed, in all seriousness, that translation was a fine art, but adaptation of a novel to the stage was something any hack could do.) * * * * * I think you can safely say that Eleanor and I are both "Babylon 5" fans. We drove out to Valley Forge yesterday just to hear Mira Furlan speak for 40 minutes. (By the way, she doesn't look a bit like Delenn; to a first approximation, she looks like Demi Moore with a touch of Joan Baez.) If only we had $500,000 or so, and a theater, we'd put on the whole War of the Roses just so she could play Margaret of Anjou.... * * * * * The bottles don't matter to the taste of Coca-Cola 1/10th as much as the sweetener. If you want the real flavor, stock up around Passover on cans, bottles, or whatever, but make sure they have the "Kosher for Passover" mark. That means (in this case) that the contents were made with real sugar, instead of corn syrup. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 21:16:36 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-26-96 >If "Oz" means "great and good" in the ancient language, (said somewhere >in WIZARD) do the other areas of Oz have meanings? Some ideas: >Munchkin-- farmland >Winkie-- metals >Gillikin-- Mountains >Quadling-- "little four" :) Not it "Wizard", but somewhere in the first six. I go into some of this in "A Hobbit in Oz" (unfortunately available only at conventions if I happen to bring it with me, since it's legally quite impossible to publish). Munchkin <- "Monkey people", imposed on the Easterners by King Pastoria after hearing one too many frivolous lawsuits. Winkie <= "Wind-wester". // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:22:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Translations & counterpoint Bear: You made a very good point in questioning whether the name Ozma needs to be translated at all. In realistic fiction, at least, it's unheard of to change proper names: you can't change Ricardo to Richard without suggesting drastic alterations in the character's social background, cultural make-up, and even personality type. With fantasy works, however, there is more leeway: In the German translation of Midsummer Night's Dream, for instance, Bottom the Weaver becomes Zettel der Weber (don't ask why; trust me, it's amusing) and in general names that have a figurative quality probably should be translated so that they have the same kind of resonance. I don't know, though, what special resonances Gili would want to be preserving in the word Ozma (the allusion to Maud? the maternal idea? is Ozma all that maternal?) I'm inclined to agree with you that it would be best to leave the name just as it is. Robin: Putting Over the Rainbow and There's No Place Like Home together: too cool! I have a real weakness for that kind of counterpoint. On the Turner/Rhino CD, there is an absolutely breathtaking moment in the alternate vocal arrangement for "Optimistic Voices" where a second female choir comes in singing Over the Rainbow (but in vocaliese, without the words) while the first choir is finishing the last verse of its own song. Another songwriter who loved that kind of pairing up of different songs in simultaneous performance was Meredith Willson. Everybody knows that Seventy-Six Trombones and Goodnight My Someone go together to the point of echoing both melody and chord progressions, and Lida Rose and Dream of Now are actually paired up in the show. But how many of you know that there is a *precise* fit between the two songs that state the principal characters' rather different expectations of love, My White Knight and The Sadder but Wiser Girl? (Willson apparently even thought of having them sung simultaneously at one point, I believe). David H: Thank you for that elegant chart detailing the relative prominence of the various locales in the FF. Something as useful as this shouldn't disappear into the vast unsurveyable mega-bytes of old Digests; couldn't it be added to the Ozzy FAQ along with other worthy recent postings? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 01:00:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Non-Ozzy help needed: If there is anyone on this digest who uses a PC with WIndows 3.1 or 3.11, could you e-mail me a copy of the file C:\windows\cardfile.exe? I lost mine when I upgraded to Windows 95. Thanks, --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 27-Aug-96 08:42:40 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "DOROTHY? WHO'S DOROTHY?": I had an interesting debate with my dad about a question I never thought of before, regarding Bastinda's apparent ignorance of punctuation...Is the WWW's sky-writing in the MGM movie supposed to say (with correct punctuation added in), "SURRENDER, DOROTHY!" (i.e. she's addressing Dorothy and telling her to surrender -- what I always thought it was) or "SURRENDER DOROTHY!" (i.e. she's addressing the Emerald City, and demanding they hand over Dorothy to her -- what my dad says it is)? OZZY FAQ: Over this past month, I've been seeing a lot of "This ought to be in the FAQ" about a lot of things. So I'm going to go back over this month, and look at some of the things people would like to see and update the FAQ. Look for version 1.4 of the FAQ in a few days... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 28, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 23:58:53 -0700 From: 127 House Subject: FS: Wonderful Wizard of Oz, 1st Ed., Signed J. Whirler Children's Books Offers For Sale: The Wonderful Wizard of Oz First Edition, Signed by W. W. Denslow Baum, L. Frank The WON- / DERFUL / WIZARD / OF / OZ / By L. Frank Baum / With Pictures by / W. W. Denslow Geo. M. Hill Co., Chicago 1900 First Edition, First State, Second Binding State, Cloth, Octavo, [261] pages Signed, Inscribed and Dated by W. W. Denslow on front free end paper: "To W. F. Burows Jr. / all in fun / DEN [sea horse] / Jan. 1. 1901" Published in August 1900 and shipped the following month, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz was the best selling Christmas present for two consecutive years. This date places the book in the initial period of its popularity, only four months after it was offered for sale to the general public. Condition: front free paste-down paper missing; plate facing page 92 loose, tattered at head, fore and tail edges; page 145 loose, tattered at head edge; spine very lightly sun faded and very lightly cocked; cloth lacquer lightly insect damaged; however, cover stamps still moderately bright and aside from missing and loose pages, interior is exceptional. The major flaw of this book, the missing page, is readily compensated by the major premium, an early signature on a first edition. Points: Twenty-four color plates, on title page and facing pages 12, 20, 34, 36, 44, 56, 66, 80, 92, 102, 114, 126, [138], 150, 160, 170, 184, 198, 212, 220, 228, 246, and 254; Light-green cloth, stamped in red and green on front, rear and spine; page [2] publisher's advertisement enclosed in box; page 14, line 1: "low wail on... "; page 81, 4th line from bottom: "peices"; page [227], line 1: "While Tin Woodman... "; last lines of page 100 and 186 set in perfect type (indicating this is among the earliest copies released, according to The Wonderful World of Oz Volume III, Books of Wonder); colophon rear paste-down set in eleven lines and enclosed in box; verso of title page blank (the verso title page was stamped with missing copyright information: the lack of stamp here indicates it is exceptionally early or slipped by the stamping process); pictorial endpapers, front endpapers black and gray, rear endpapers black and red; plate facing page 92 has red shading on the horizon; plate facing page 34 lacks two dark-blue blots on the moon, going against a point described in Bibliographia Oziana (Hanff, Greene, Martin, Greene and Haff 1976, 1988); publisher's imprint on spine unserifed in red, while the first bindings were in green (ibid), thus this is a second binding state on a first edition book. Price: $11,000.00 10% dealer discount available. This book is also listed (with graphics) on the Internet, at... http://www.teleport.com/~house127/iw/wwooz.htm Non-graphic browsers can retrieve the graphics at... ftp.teleport.com /pub/users/house127/oz/ Contact Trevor Blake at... J. Whirler, Post Office Box 2321, Portland OR 97208-2321 USA 24-Hour Telephone: +503-635-1796 E-Mail: house127@teleport.com -- 127 House - An Independent Archive of Systematic Ideology P.O. Box 2321 Portland OR 97208-2321 USA - (503) 635-1796 house127@teleport.com - http://www.teleport.com/~house127 ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:25:11 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-26-96 Soon I may have to take my computer to the shop to check out a memory conflict it's having, so if you don't hear from me for a little while, that's why. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:46:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: the* witch's* Dorothy? Dave: I too had wondered for years about the proper grammatical "reading" of the witch's skywriting: whether Dorothy was the direct object of a command to the Emerald City ("Surrender her") or the subject of the command ("Surrender, Dorothy"). However, I read somewhere (probably in Aljean Harmetz's book) that the original message was supposed to be "Surrender Dorothy or die"; the final phrase was cut out as being too frightening for children, though it seems a lot more innocuous than what the witch has to say to Dorothy later on. In any event, the addition of "or die" makes it reasonably clear that the command is directed to Dorothy rather than to the inhabitants of the Emerald City. So what if there is a missing comma? It's a little churlish to expect the poor woman up on her broomstick to attend to the niceties of punctuation. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 18:34:47 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Robin's Questions About MGM Grand Robin-- The other Oz items at the MGM Grand are still there--although I swear something was missing in the Oz Buffet area. Jane Albright e-mailed me to say that the "Emerald City" wasn't all there when she was there in Feb., however I didn't notice any difference when I was there in June (perhaps I was too busy trying to WIN--but funny how that never happens...) The Oz Tower rooms are still decorated with MGM Oz characters. And the gift shops are still there. But, shoot, even EFX was dark, and when it played again last Friday, Michael Crawford was sick and his "understudies" stood in for him. Glad I didn't buy tickets. I mentioned to Jane that if they're removing them, I sure would like one of the brass OZ-logo door pulls, or one of the OZ-logo signs in the casino. (These items always remind me more of the books--to the best of my knowledge the OZ logo ["Z" inside the "O"] was never used in the movie.) But on the other hand, like I told her, where the heck would I put them? By the way, the outside temperature hit 107 degrees. The heat doesn't bother me, but are some IWOC members really serious about having a convention in Las Vegas during the summer? Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:17:38 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi! Another quick one... <> But where does the Seebanian line (Unk Nunkie, Ojo, and Ree Alla Bad) fit in in the Munchkin Country? And I suspect Glinda wasn't royalty at all, but (Baum himself indicated) simply a woman who became a powerful sorceress and overthrew the Wicked Witch of the South (Blinkie? Singra? The unnamed witch from Shanower's ENCHANTED APPLES?) and hence became the ruler of the Quadling Country through right of conquest. (De facto, probably not de jure at first, since Baum mentions another "King of the Quadlings"--not Glinda, who in any case would be an even more alliterative Queen--in ROAD.) David Hulan wrote: <> Maybe she referred to an older language displaced by the influx of English-speaking immigrants, like Gaelic in Ireland? Although the puns would certainly indicate that, as Thompson specifically said, Ozish is nothing more than English, it's also been theorized that the magical nature of the country enables all humans (and also many animals) to understand each other. (Which would add a whole new significance to the "translation" sequence in LAND; maybe Jack Pumpkinhead and the Scarecrow really *did* speak different languages!) Tyler Jones wrote: <> Neither do I, though, what with a new Democratic Convention in Chicago, there's been a lot of retrospection on the last one in 1968...including the pig by that name who was the Yippies' candidate for President... Gordon Birrell wrote: << In realistic fiction, at least, it's unheard of to change proper names: you can't change Ricardo to Richard without suggesting drastic alterations in the character's social background, cultural make-up, and even personality type. With fantasy works, however, there is more leeway...>> It's also a relatively recent development: up to a few centuries ago proper names were customarily translated with regard to both fictional and historical characters. The man we know as Christopher Columbus, for instance, was actually Cristoforo Columbo (hmm...was the TV detective named after him, I wonder?) in his native Genoa, Italy, and Cristobal Colon to his Spanish patrons. <> I hadn't realized that...I'll have to rent the video again! But I remember two other songs from my grade-school music book that fit together in similar fashion: "Solomon Levi" and "A British Grenadier"...probably also from the same musical, though I don't remember the writer (George M. Cohan?). Gilbert & Sullivan did it several times, too (one memorable sequence in THE MIKADO has Pooh-Bah, Pish-Tush, and Ko-Ko singing three different melodies in three different rhythms at once), and no doubt there are many other instances. And maybe next time I'll have more to say about Oz! Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:20:29 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-96 Ruth: It seems unlikely that the witch or fairy who gave Tommy Kwikstep his extra legs was Gayelette or Lurline; Gayelette is described as appearing young and beautiful, and if Lurline is identified with Lulea then so is she, whereas Tommy's wish was granted by "an old woman". It could have been the GWN, but it sounds rather careless for someone generally described as wise. If it's anyone we've met in the books, I'd favor Faleero - she's the sort who'd want someone else to run an errand for her, and would probably get a malicious kick out of granting a wish that would probably do the wisher no good. Bear: WAS is neither HI nor HA; it doesn't recognize the existence of Oz, so it's not an Oz book at all. Gordon: Interesting question: when an author like Dickens, for instance, who frequently used names that epitomized their stereotype (e.g. Mr. Bumble, Dotheboys Hall) are translated into another language, do they stick to the original name or do they translate it into the equivalent in that language? If the former, then some of the significance of the original is going to be lost. Tyler: Sorry, I'm a Mac man myself. :-) (Actually, I have a PC with Windows 3.1, but it doesn't have a monitor or keyboard connected to it at the moment, and I don't feel like setting it up when I'm sure someone else on the Digest can help you.) Dave: Good question about the meaning of the witch's skywriting in the movie. My own opinion is that she's calling on Dorothy to surrender, rather than on the people of the EC to surrender Dorothy to her, because the latter would imply that if they weren't protecting Dorothy the witch could have her. And that can't be true; if it were, the witch could have taken her anywhere along the YBR. But the lack of a comma does make it read as if she's addressing the EC and not Dorothy herself. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:34:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Jim: I eagerly await your Ozzy web page! Names and countries: Aaron's idea about ruling houses and the names of the quarandts is an intriguing one, and is supported by the existence of Gil of Gilkenny. However, your King Stan of the House of Munch probably lost his title to Cheeriobed's father, unless his father (Laumer called him Obadiah) was a minor king and Cheeriobed, after taking the crown from Stan, bestowed the title "King of the Munchkins" posthumously. One idea that crops up now and again (either explicitly or implicitly) is that there is only one quadrant ruler at any given time who rules the entire area. I do not beleive this, and there is ample evidence in the FF that the quadrants were divided with many rulers ruling parts. Of course, in ancient history, things may have been different. Aaron and David: There a a few sexually suggestive comments here and there in _Sir Harold and the Gnome King_, but at the most, this book is PG rated. Ruth: It seems likely that King Gil is descended from some ancient ruling house of the Gilikin country. He may have been the king marching in the parade in _Road_, representing the old guard, since the north was already ruled by his daughter, the Good Witch of the North, although neither of them knew about the family relationship. Gil of Gilkenny was in all likelihood never the ruler of the whole quadrant. There was obviously a void when Tattypoo stepped in. Perhaps the House of Gil fell out of power. They thought that their line was done, but the last member, unbeknowst to Gil or even Tattypoo herself, actually re-took the throne! Oh, the irony! :-) Aaron and Bear: There is a technicality in _Was_ that may prevent membership in the HI/RCC. This book never actually gets to Oz or even the Fairyland of which Oz is a part. It takes place entirely in America. Dave: If Bastinda's message was a demand for the people of EC to hand over Dorothy, that would indicate that she was in fact making this demand of the Wizard himself. Does anyone remember if the movie mentioned the power and or reputation of the Wizard as viewed from outside EC? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:54:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-96 well more oz news i have many many oz wavs im offering to the group or if someoen wants to put them up on their web page some of these are also outakes from hte master reel complete withmess ups mind u the zips are over a meg each hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:05:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: _In Other Lands Than Oz_ 1) Eric, if I remember correctly, the dates for all the Laumer books in the HI/RCC are Laumer's, adjusted to fit the dating system of the HACC. I don't expect to read any more of Laumer's books until after Barry and I finish our collection of the FF (28 down, 12 to go, off the top of my head). 2) David, I listed "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" as not suitable for children due to the scene where are transported to Oz while they're in bed together undressed. Admittedly though, the Enchanter material I've read is deserving of a lower rating than _Wicked_ and _The Number of the Beast_. I'll have to remember to add a more specific rating system next time I update the HI/RCC. 3) Bear, I did not include _Was_ in the HI/RCC because it has been mentioned on the Digest that _Was_ denies the existence of Oz completely, which puts it outside my parameters. (1. Must be a story taking place at least in part in Oz's universe. 2. Must not be in the HACC.) Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:37:29 -0400 From: Homer On the subject of the origin of country names- If you'll recall, The WWW wore an eyepatch. Obviously she had only one eye or else a really gross looking eye. Perhaps the people of that country, under her horrible rule, adopted the name "Winkie" in mockery of her optical handicap. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:04:59 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: Ozzy digest (repeat) Danny: the Munchkin, Winkie, and Quadling names sound as if based on English (or Latin) roots -- eating, wink, and 4th. Your suggestion of farmland and metals for the first two might fit with those (farm-eating connection is obvious, and metal when polished might be bright enough to make people wink)? As I commented in the "Who's Who in Oz appendix" I published, Thompson in Giant Horse, where she makes Orin daughter of a past king, King Gil of Gilkenny, may have been thinking that the king and his kingdom name came from a dynasty of kings in the area and that the Gillikins could have taken their name from that dynasty. (If so, her King Gil would be the otherwise un-named King of the Gillikins mentioned by Baum in Ozma and Road.) [Tuesday addendum: Aaron S. Adelman suggests that the suffixes -kin, -ie, and -ling could indicate ethnicities. They could, but they are all suffixes in English with the meaning of "one connected with or having the quality of," as in "Earthling" -- or is that what you meant in the first place?] David Hulan: Writing at work, I can't check immediately as to background of "Pirates of Penzance" copyright, but will try to remember to look it up again later. (I sort of remember, but not in enough detail to comment.) [Tuesday addendum: So I looked it up, and the G&S Songbook description sounds accurate, but it's confusing. G&S could have had copyright protection in the U.S. if they'd chosen to copyright it in the U.S., but then they would have forfeited protection in the rest of the world.) An earlier comment about a portrait of Ozma in Tin Woodman put me in a mood to re-read it. Query: anybody have any theories on who the witch or fairy was whose gift of a wish got Tommy Kwikstep in trouble? The gift doesn't seem to have been made with the intention of hurting him, so it probably wasn't any of the the Wickeds. Maybe Good Witch of the North or Gayelette, or possibly even Lurline? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:05:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Oz at MGM - For those who haven't made it to Las Vegas, the MGM has/had a big Oz exhibit right inside the front door. There was a gift area, with books and other trade goods. In a large area were tableaux of Oz characters, with the famous four right in the front. There was also some kind of walk through display which was not open when we were there. Sigh. Apparently this is being removed, probably to be replaced with something like the Power Rangers or Ninja Turtles. Double Sigh. Surely this display has been covered in some Ozzy publication? If not, we also took pictures that I would be glad to share if we could e-mail images. Someday. Jim - Maybe those Oz murals are going someplace useful? Like the Oz Park? We should find out where. Would you like to do that? Gordon - Zettel? In German that is a note (a slip of paper). Oh no. Could it be? Whatever, please explain if possible. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:54:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: Maureen McGovern sings Arlen! I don't know how many people on the digest are Maureen McGovern fans but, I think we are all Oz fans, otherwise we wouldn't be here, right? Anyway, Maureen McGovern has a new CD out called "Out of This World : McGovern Sings Arlen". It contains many of the Harold Arlen standards and two songs from "The Wizard of Oz"; "Over the Rainbow" and a wonderful rendition of "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead". If you would like to test drive this a bit, a co-worker of mine has a Maureen McGovern Home Page. In it he includes sound files and one of them is of Maureen's signature scatting in "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead". You must have .wav player in order to listen, though. Or, if you have downloaded the 3.0 version of Netscape it automatically installs the sound wave plug-ins (that's how I was able to hear it). The URL is: http://www-bprc.mps.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/hpp/bdaher.html Check it out, I think you'll enjoy it! Better yet, buy the CD, it's terrific! Jim:) ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 28-Aug-96 10:30:22 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BABEL FAIRIES?: David Hulan wrote: >In fact, Ozma says it meant that "in our language", which is a bit puzzling >since the language of Oz was always depicted as being English.) Is it possible that the Oz people speak their own language (it's hard to see how the isolated Ozites ever could have aquired English anyway), but Lurline's enchantment included something equivelent to Douglas Adams' Babel Fish which "translates any word you hear in any form of language"? Thus Ozites and outsiders could communicate with no problem because they hear everything in their own language. And Lurline's enchantment might go ever further and translate text as well (otherwise the WWW's skywriting might have read, "SJEHRNOEKGT DUQMFBEJX"). P.S. The differnce to Douglas Adams is that Lurline's magical translations would be automatic -- You don't have to stick a fish in your ear. :) WHITHER LOCASTA?: Tyler wrote: >Gil of Gilkenny was in all likelihood never the ruler of the whole quadrant. >There was obviously a void when Tattypoo stepped in. Er, what happened to Mombi? At some point, SHE ruled the Gillikins, until the Good Witch of the North conquered her... ********** SMALL SPOILER FOR _LOCASTA AND THE THREE ADEPTS OF OZ_ ********** The story of the succession of rulers in Gillikin Country according to MOPPeT in _Locasta and the 3 Adepts_ is as follows: Mombi took control of the Gillikins and overthrew Gil in the "Great Witch Takeover" of Oz. Then when Locasta (the original Good Witch of the North) arrived, she conquered Mombi and became ruler of the Gillikins. Later, Mombi got revenge on Locasta by banishing her to Australia. Then Mombi performed her "switcheroo" spell on Locasta and Orin, making Orin assume Locasta's form (and vice versa) and the enchanted Orin become the new Good Witch of the North (named Tattypoo). *************************** END SPOILER ************************************ -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 29, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:02:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Waara Page Robin and Jonathan, Yep! Bonnie McDonough decided that forcing everyone who had already received a defective Oziana to write for a missing page was silly, so she sent the missing page to all subscribers. I haven't seen the page yet, but I believe that in lieu of a page number it has an indication that it's an errata leaf. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:18:57 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Surrender Dorothy > "DOROTHY? WHO'S DOROTHY?": > I had an interesting debate with my dad about a question I never > thought of before, regarding Bastinda's apparent ignorance of > punctuation...Is the WWW's sky-writing in the MGM movie supposed > to say (with correct punctuation added in), "SURRENDER, DOROTHY!" > (i.e. she's addressing Dorothy and telling her to surrender -- what > I always thought it was) or "SURRENDER DOROTHY!" (i.e. she's addressing > the Emerald City, and demanding they hand over Dorothy to her -- what my > dad says it is)? I dunno, but when my son was two/three, he had a hard time figuring out why the the guard at the gate would say, "The witch is Dorothy?" the first hundred times he saw the movie. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:18:43 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-96 David: It's been a while since I read "Sir Harold and the Gnome King," but I recall a scene where a couple gets transported to Oz in a compromising position in bed. THAT seems unsuitable for kids, and no, I did not like the story, either. The book was a prize I won. Considering the above, it would be understandable if Ozma discouraged casual use of the Magic PIcture. What if the person requested were (blush) in the bathroom or changing clothes? Ozma and friends would need to use careful phrasing to avoid such embarrassment. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:55:45 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest A comment on the Monday/Tuesday resending -- I realized later that I had some more pages to the set and had mislaid them. Wanted to apologize if the duplet was confusing to people! David Hulan: I like the idea that Tommy Kwikstep's witch-or-fairy might have been Faleero (that would explain why he was doubtful as to which she was, perhaps). ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:04:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-28-96 Glinda: Rich said: >> And I suspect Glinda wasn't royalty at all, but (Baum himself indicated) simply a woman who became a powerful sorceress and overthrew the Wicked Witch of the South Where does Baum indicate this? I've always been fascinated by Glinda...even to the point of having written an article about her...and have always believed her to be genuinely magical, although there are definite limits to her magic. I agree that she learns more about magic after LAND, where she can't even figure out how to get into the E. City once the gates are locked, but all indictions I've noted show that she's a very special someone and was never a "normal" woman. My impression is that she belongs to some very special fairy society and is some kind of guardian of Ozma. She tried to find the baby Ozma. Only when she has found Ozma does she get involved in "saving Oz." I think Lurline or someone like that put Glinda in Oz to troubleshoot for Ozma. And I think Glinda is intrinsically magic. Comments from the rest of you, please. Where the heck is Gili? ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:51:13 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-28-96 I think I'll pass on that copy of WIZARD... :-) Scott: There are places that should never have a convention in the summer, at least if it's not intended to be confined to the indoors. Anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon Line or in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, or Utah, and below 3000 feet altitude, for starters. Anywhere in California with anything over 1000 feet tall between it and the ocean, and under 3000 feet altitude, for another. Imho. Rich: Presumably Ozma must have meant "in our ancestral language" when she referred to "Oz" meaning "great and good", but she didn't say it. I'm one of the ones who's hypothesized that Ozish is not in fact English, but that outsiders coming to Oz automatically "hear" Ozish as English - and even "see" written material in Ozish as being in English - even though it's not. The exceptions are those Ozish names that have no well-understood meaning in Ozish (equivalent to English names like, say, Robert; "Robert" originally meant something, but it conveys no meaning to a modern English-speaker), which come through in the original Ozish form - e.g. Boq, Ojo, Glinda, Mombi. But if a name means something that's understood in Ozish, it's translated (e.g. Jellia Jamb, Scraps, Bungle). By this theory (MOPPeT, of course), "Oz" must mean "great and good" in the same sense that "Edward" means "rich guardian" - it's the ancient origin of the name, but it's not what people think of when they hear it in modern Ozish (and similarly for "Ozma"). This theory is consistent with a number of modern fantasy series, notably de Camp and Pratt's Harold Shea stories. And, in fact, there's internal evidence in that the Scarecrow was able to understand the language of the Silver Islanders and thought he was speaking and hearing Ozish until he paid careful attention to things. (This could, however, have been the spirit of Chang Wang Woe in action. It's true that the other Ozites couldn't understand the Silver Islanders when they got there. On the other hand, it may just be that the spell of translation isn't as strong in the Silver Islands as in Oz.) I think Columbus' original name was Cristoforo Colombo, not Columbo, though I'm not positive about that. (Then there's the famous Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, whose middle name was originally Gottlieb. Or the great cartographer Mercator, who I believe was born Kaufmann or something of the sort.) Actually, the song that's sung simultaneously with "Solomon Levi" is "A Spanish Cavalier", not "A British Grenadier"... (Or at least, it was when I was in junior high and sang them.) Or there's the Irving Berlin one where one song goes "I hear singing and there's no one there," and the other goes "You don't need analyzing," etc. And Gilbert and Sullivan, as you say, did it frequently. Tyler: There must be some reason why the four quadrants of Oz have their current boundaries, although it's pretty clear that (a) since Ozma's accession, the "rule" of the four quadrants is pretty much honorary, and (b) in the time immediately before that, none of the four quadrants was under the firm control of a single ruler. Gloma seems to have ruled about half the Winkie country when the WWW ruled the rest of it (with at least a couple of areas like the Yip country and Oogaboo completely independent), and the Seebanian dynasty ruled around half the Munchkin country. The Gillikin country was almost completely fragmented with the GWN exercising very little control, although she might have been available as a benevolent arbiter of disputes that were submitted to her. Even Glinda doesn't seem to have had a very firm hand on the Quadling country, with areas like Jinxland, the Hammerheads, and the Fighting Trees doing very much as they pleased, though she seems to have had more real power than any of the other quadrant rulers. Still, somewhere in ancient history there must have been rulers who reigned over a whole quadrant, or the quadrants wouldn't have distinctive names and definite boundaries. I refuse to believe that a simple preference of color would suffice to define an ethnic group, and there seems to be no other difference of consequence between the inhabitants of one quadrant and another. (But is it really true that the Gostaks distimm the Doshes?) In the movie, Glinda tells Dorothy that the Wizard is very good but, as I recall, very mysterious. I think that's the only reference to how he's viewed from outside (other than Dorothy's own interpretation, which can't be considered meaningful). Homer: Baum says specifically that the WWW had only one eye, though it was a very powerful one. Ruth: So the rest of the world didn't recognize US copyright, and vice versa, making it impossible to get a copyright that would cover the whole world? Talk about your Catch-22! James: I'm not really familiar with Maureen McGovern, but I love Arlen if she doesn't hoke them up too much. Does she sing them more or less straight, or does she take major liberties with them? (I think of some renditions of the national anthem that I've heard where the singers seem to believe they're being paid by the hour...) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 20:06:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Rich and Aaron: One the surface, there seems to be a contradiction between Aaron's King Stan and the Seebanian line, as mentioned in _Ojo_. There is room for both of these dynasties if you assume that each ruled part of what we know of as the Munchkin Country. It is clear that the Seebanians ruled the southern part until the ascension of Ozma. However, Cheeriobed, his father (and, at least in the Adelmanian Universe, King Stan) also claimed to be kings of the Munchkins. One possibility is that Stan and his descendants ruled in the north while the Seebanians ruled in the south. Gingemma, during the "Great Witch Takeover", took over a sizeable chunk of land in the center, but was prevented from expanding throughout the entire blue country. The parade in _Road_: Some people have commented on the fact that, in _The Road to Oz_, Baum mentions four people marching in Ozma's birthday parade: The Monarch of the Munchkins, The Emperor of the Winkies, the King of the Quadlings and the Sovereign of the Gilikins. However, The Tin Woodman, Tattypoo and Glinda were already identified as marching elsewhere. MOPPeT is that these four were either liasons between Ozma and the quadrants or possibly they were local rulers chosen as stand-ins to represent the quadrants. Gil could easily have been the Sovereign of the Gilikins, but I doubt that Cheeriobed was the Monarch of the Munchkins. If he was, then surely he would have mentioned his little problem to Ozma. Dave: How could I have forgotten Mombi? She's quite easy to remember. I agree with your MOPPeT 100%, as it makes the most sense. However, it is still not clear whether Gil ruled the entire GIlikin country or just a large part, and the same hold true for Mombi. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 21:27:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls I see Digest subscribers have dropped off to 128. Well, when school starts and all of those starving students can use the school account that should change. :) $11,000 - Right! I'll just dash off a check. Page missing, chewed by bugs, sun-damaged, cocked(?), etc. Wow! What a buy. Enough sour grapes. Well, congratulations Trevor. You know he probably picked this up for $1 at a garage sale and don't we all wish we could do the same! Dorothy is a little girl, hardly responsible for herself. "Surrender Dorothy" makes much more sense as a message to her "guardians," who have been protecting her since the beginning of the book/movie. MAD - I give up, what is a "oz wavs." You have passed beyond intelligibility. Aaron - In "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" Walter Bayard and his lady friend are transported in a bed, fairly modestly covered, into Ozma's throne room by herself. I can't imagine a modern child would even blink at this farcical event. Why "some" modern educators want to give them AIDS education in the early grades. Now that could be devastating. Homer - I think we better look into this matter of the WWW with an eyepatch. This means that she was a "witch with disability." She was probably made fun of and abused by the Munchkins which drove her to be "disagreeable." Maybe she wasn't responsible for her behavior at all and the Munchkins got just what they deserved. Nattering negatively, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 23:42:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: King Stan of Munchkinezia 1) Rich, in the Adelmanian standard model, the House of Munch vied with several other Munchkin kingdoms, including the Ozure Islands and Seebania, for rulership of Munchkinland, and it so happened that the House of Munch was dominant (and in communication with the Emerald City) at the start of the Ozmatic Era, having been the favorite house of the Wicked Witch of the East, and hence became de facto the ruling house of all the Munchkins, even though most political power had passed to Boq. As to why Ozma chose to demote Stan and promote Cheeriobed, that's not part of the model yet. As for the rulership of the Quadlings, seeing that there was was a King of the Quadlings, it wouldn't be surprising if Glinda and this unnamed king were rulers of different Quadling kingdoms--indeed, in _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_, Glinda rules territory only between Hammerhead Mountain and the desert--and it was only later that it was unambiguously decided that Glinda was the Ruler of the Quadlings and not just a Quadling ruler. Though I have to admit that Glinda may not be royalty, but just became ruler of Ruby City (pardon the Laumerian name; I don't have another for her kingdom) by virtue of conquest of the (Shannowerian) Wicked Witch of the South, as she is never (so far as I remember) ever called Queen/Princess/Duchess/etc. Glinda. On the other hand, her talents in sorcery and high standing in Oz, morally and politically, make her formal titles superfluous. Compare famous people in history (i.e., Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Aristotle, Sophocles, Washington, Lenin, ...)--their fame preceeds them to such a degree that once you hear the name, adding a title becomes an unneccesary specification. 2) Ruth, when I wrote that -ie, -kin, and -ling probably indicate ethnicities, I meant ethnicities, as all I have to go on in the way of Old Ozzish words with those suffixes are ethnic/regional groups. However, they concievably could be general adjectival suffixes for all I know. 3) On the "Babel Fairies" idea: Isn't that straight out of _The Mysterious Chronicles of Oz_? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 28-Aug-96 22:56:30 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Bear wrote: >I give up, what is a "oz wavs." You have passed beyond intelligibility. I think he's referring to .WAV files, which are computer sound files. Presumably, he has some computer digitized sound samples from the soundtrack of the MGM _The Wizard of Oz_ (maybe _Return to Oz_ as well?). Aaron wrote: >3) On the "Babel Fairies" idea: Isn't that straight out of _The >Mysterious Chronicles of Oz_? Dunno, since I never read it. Actually, the concept I described I use in my unpublished Sci-Fi novel (with futuristic technology replacing the magic, of course). -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 30, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 07:18:39 -0400 (EDT) From: James R Whitcomb Subject: Re: Today's Growls (from Richard Bauman) I called the MGM Grand last evening to see if I could get more info re: the demise of the "Oz themes" there. I spoke with someone in "reservations" but I wanted to speak specifically with someone in Publicity and Public Relations. The person I spoke with answered my questions and gave me the phone number of PPR, so I might try to call again this evening. I think they might be 9 to 5er's so I probably need to call earlier in the day since I'm calling from Eastern Time. Here's what I found out (not that it differs much from what I already reported): The Emerald City and the Oz animatronic characters that greeted visitors at the front entrance of the Hotel/Casino are history! They are currently removing them to make room, get this, for a performance stage! I asked about the murals (which by the way Richard, can't be moved because they are painted right onto the walls) and the Emerald City Gift Shop. This person seems to think the Oz Buffet will stay as is, however, it may get renamed. He also said he "thinks" the gift shop will stay. He said the two main focuses of renovation right now are the food court (which didn't have any Oz themes anyway) and the removal of the Emerald City. I am sorry folks but, this is very upsetting to me. I am so glad I got lots of pictures and had double-prints made. I am definitely adding these to my WWW Home Page! I asked what was happening to all this Ozzy stuff after its removal. The person I spoke with did not know. This is the angle I want to pursue with MGM PPR. I don't know why they don't move it to their "Grand Adventures Theme Park". It almost seems more appropriate there, anyway. Besides, that part of the MGM could use a sprucing up in my opinion. I also want to know if they are going to change the decor in the rooms in the "Emerald Towers" wing. They were decorated with an Oz theme, also. They have poppy field carpet in the hallways, poppy field bedspreads, and Oz character pictures framed in the rooms and hallways. I would like to know if they are going to sell those. I would love to buy a couple. Ironically enough, I found the neatest article the other day and just received it. It was written back in 1993 just after the MGM opened. The article gives all the gory details about how the Emerald City was built, by whom, it told how the laser light show was created, and the animatronic characters. I don't have the article with me right now because I'm at work but, if any one is interested in reading it, I would gladly post the citation. It is very informative re: the history and evolution of the "former" Emerald City at the MGM Grand I sure hope the MGM Grand is taken off the list as possible sites for the Centennial Oz Convention. P.S. Does anyone know if there is mention in the Oz Timeline in the Reference Section on the International Wizard of Oz web site. I don't recall seeing it there. Maybe it should be added? Jim:) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:21:34 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel To: Dave Hardenbrook I've only been skimming the digest lately, but enough "where's Gili?" messages have popped up to shake me out of my silence - Gili is frantically trying to finish about six school papers in the next week, and Gili is a slow writer. So I may not participate for a while, but I'm still listening in, and I'll be back. :-) |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:46:40 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Ozziness Some days ago (and repeated today) Robin asked, where's Gili? I can now answer that question, as a received a posting from her (concerning a review). She is "hysterically busy" writing 5 papers and getting ready to spend a year at Harvard. But she did include in her post: "My love to the digest, I won't be responding for the next couple of days either -- it really does save time!" I think we all wish her well in her hysteria. I would not mind having a Denslow signed first WONDERFUL WIZARD but I misplaced my $11,000. On the question of the language comprehension in Oz: The first non-English speaking person to visit Oz is the French Canadien bus driver in THE FLYING BUS OF OZ, by Ruth Morris (available from Buckethead $10) who discovered that she could understand what people were saying when she arrived in Oz even though she knew no English. So it would seem as if the whole country acted as a Universal Translator (unless you cut the tail off of a fox). I am considering as a project for next year (I am eligible for a Sabbatical) doing an edition of the unpublished 1902/03 play of THE WIZARD OF OZ. Does anyone know where the MSS of this play are now. I remember seeing a Peggy Christian sale catalog (probably of the estate of Joslyn Staunton Baum) which included a lot of several MSS of versions of the play, but I have no idea what happened to them. Anyone with knowledge, please help. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:42:38 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-29-96 Peter H.: I got the errata sheet for OZIANA a couple of days ago. (Only a couple of days after I finally got OZIANA itself, as a matter of fact. Both sent to an old address...) Melody: That problem you mention with the Magic Picture is _a fortiori_ a problem when Ozma whips people from America to a throne room full of people _without_ checking the Magic Picture (as she did with Uncle Henry and Aunt Em in EC). As I point out in my Ozma essay... Robin: Snow very specifically says Glinda is not a member of Lurline's fairy band, though I don't recall any of the other Royal Historians saying that, and I don't suppose all fairies need be members of Lurline's band. Baum tends to imply she's not a fairy as well, since Ozma says that Glinda's magic is different from her own fairy magic - and we know that at least some of Glinda's magic can be learned by the decidedly non-fairy Wizard. But it may be that fairies can learn other types of magic as well, and that Glinda has done that but Ozma hasn't. On the third hand (the gripping hand?), Ozma does say that she's the most powerful fairy of any inhabitant of Oz, but that Glinda is more powerful than she is. I think it's well-established that in Oz one doesn't have to be born with magical powers to acquire them (the Wizard is proof enough of that); whether Glinda started with some powers and learned others, or started as a non-magical (though hardly "ordinary") human being and learned magic from scratch, isn't clear unless I've forgotten a reference somewhere. Gili said that she wouldn't be posting much while she's getting ready for her move from Israel to Massachusetts for her year at Harvard. Tyler: I think it's highly unlikely that Gil or Mombi either one ruled the entire Gillikin country. The evidence in GLINDA is that the Skeezers and Flatheads had both been independent (and largely isolated) since well before Ozma's accession. And it's doubtful that any human monarch ever held sway over the Forest of Gugu, either. Pumperdink and Regalia don't show any signs of having emerged from an intermediate rulership, either. MOPPeT is that Mombi probably ruled the southern part of the Gillikin country, nearer the Emerald City. Gil may have ruled the northeastern part, though I think it more likely that he at most ruled a strip from the Zamagoochie Mountains southeast to the Munchkin border, not including Pumperdink or Mombi's territory to the south or Regalia, Gayelette's domain, and the Silver Mountains to the northeast. It's hard to see a stiff-necked people like the Regalians, or powerful magicians like Gayelette and Wutz, submitting to his rule. On the other hand, I think it very probable that somewhere in pre-enchantment times Gil's ancestors had ruled the whole Gillikin country and given it their name; Gilkenny at the time of Gil and Orin was only a remnant of what was once a much more powerful realm. (Sort of like, say, Rome in the 14th century.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:21:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: translations (Dickens, Shakespeare) David H.: I asked my colleagues in French and Spanish if the translations of Dickens' novels into those languages involved changing proper names (e.g., Mr. Bumble) so that their figurative meanings were preserved. The consensus is that in the standard translations these names are *not* altered from their English form. I did a little research myself on the history of German translations. The first translaters did in fact attempt to render the names so that they had the same kind of "ring" to them that they do in English. However, these translaters were roundly criticized (and rightly, I think) for having undermined the force of Dickens' social commentary by making the characters quasi-German. Thomas Mann was greatly influenced by Dickens and devised names for *his* characters that have all kinds of resonance for German readers (Tobias Mindernickel, Adrian Leverkuehn, Gustav Aschenbach), and I have yet to see an English translation of Mann's works that attempts to rework these names into English equivalents. (For those of you who are wondering what connection this could possibly have with Ozzy matters--this thread got started with the question of whether the name Ozma needed to be changed in Gili's translations of the Oz books into Hebrew.) Bear, you wrote: >Gordon - Zettel? In German that is a note (a slip of paper). Oh no. >Could it >be? Whatever, please explain if possible. Zettel does mean a note (or the slip of paper on which the note is written) in modern German. In older usage, however, Zettel had two additional meanings: 1) the warp of a weave; and 2) an oafish peasant. So Zettel der Weber is really a clever pun on Zettel's (=Bottom's) personality as well as profession. (Frankly I doubt that most modern Germans would pick up on this pun; I only recognized it since my specialization is 18th- and 19th-century literature.) While I was thinking over a response to Tyler's question about the Wizard's influence and reputation outside the EC (which David has already answered), I took another look at that passage where the witch threatens Dorothy in Munchkinland and Glinda then advises Dorothy to seek out the assistance of the "very good but very mysterious" Wizard of Oz. Amazing thing: when the witch is hurling threats at Dorothy ("Very well, my pretty! I'll bide my time" etc. etc.), the music in the background consists of repeated tremolo chords in the lower strings, and the chords are nothing other than that same *D-minor sixth* chord that then becomes the hour-glass chord and later the defining tonality of the Winkie march. This score is positively Wagnerian in its use of leitmotivs! I know a lot of people think that the Oscar for Best Score should rightly have gone to Harburg and Arlen, but the more I listen to the background material the happier I am that Herbert Stothart's sophisticated work was officially rewarded. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:32:18 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Aaron S. Adelman: In English, -ie, -kin, and -ling are all adjectival suffixes and all diminutives (as in birdie, catkin, or darling), but diminutives easily slide over into the meaning of "one belonging to a group", and the Webster's Collegiate lists the group meaning as an additional meaning for -ie and -ling (as in townie or earthling). It doesn't list it for -kin, but it seems likely enough that readers would take "Munchkin" as meaning both "small-munch" and "member of munch group." Melody Grandy: I'm fond of "Sir Harold and the Gnome King," but I'm also fond of L. Sprague de Camp's work generally and the stories he did with Fletcher Pratt about Harold O'Shea in particular. (He sent me a note about the pamphlet on gnomes I did as a Dunkiton Press publication to point out that his own connection with Gnome King, which I included the following year, in the Dunkiton pamphlet on Oz mermaids.) He's also the author of a fine mermaid story "Nothing in the Rules," about a swimming coach who enters a mermaid in a meet, speaking of mermaids. Tyler Jones: My MOPPeT on the Munchkin king in the Road parade is that it could have been Cheeriobed -- if Quiberon had not yet arrived to cut the Ozure Isles off from the rest of the country. And that could have been the case if the spell that Mombi cooked up to create Quiberon and send him there had been a slow-acting one that took a long time stewing before it actually took effect. (Presumably, on that theory, Cheeriobed would in fact have asked Ozma for help in finding Orin, but the spell that disguised her might perhaps have baffled even the magic of the Magic Picture.) Richard Bauman: your joke that the one-eyed Wicked Witch might have become wicked because people teased her for her deformity wouldn't have seemed all that unreasonable to Baum as a possibility. The episode with the monstrous king in his Enchanted Island of Yew is close to that outline. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 17:20:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: Wizard of Oz graphics Does anyone know where I might be able to obtain Wizard of Oz graphics on the WWW? Are there any sites where I can download them from. I am particularly interested in small items that I can use for buttons, bullets, and bars. I recently saw a web site where someone used a small pair of Ruby Slippers as bullets but, unfortunately, I can't seem to find it again. Or, does anyone know where I can obtain Oz shareware or purchase graphics? Thanks in advance! Jim:) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:39:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-29-96 > ====================================================================== > Date: Wednesday 28-Aug-96 22:56:30 > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > Bear wrote: > >I give up, what is a "oz wavs." You have passed beyond intelligibility. > > I think he's referring to .WAV files, which are computer sound files. > Presumably, he has some computer digitized sound samples from the soundtrack > of the MGM _The Wizard of Oz_ (maybe _Return to Oz_ as well?). > nice to see we have some computer users here dave like u if folks dont know file extensions they shouldnt be on a puter disssing other folks as for whats all there i dont know dave its like 10 zips full of wavs and i have a few outake wavs from the master reel where they messed up during the filming ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:51:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Faleero in Oz: The idea that the witch who visited Tommy Kwikstep is a good one. Since she is relatively unknown, it would be difficult for Tommy to finger her. Who is Glinda? This is one of the all-time toughies. Like Robin, I believe that Glinda and Lurline struck a deal whereby Glinda would support Ozma and protect her. I do not believe that Glinda is a fairy, however. In _Glinda of Oz_, Ozma and Dorothy have a conversation about magic and Ozma makes it clear that She and Glinda are "different". I believe that Glinda is a normal person who is very powerful magically. David: It is possible that in ancient times, the quadrants had one ruler each, whether independent kingdoms or part of the old Land of Oz. From these dynasties, the names of the quadrants were derived and passed down, although they may not have always had one ruler, and certainly there were pockets that were independent. The Quadling King: It is very likely that the "King of the Quadlings" was a local ruler, or perhaps even the ruler of several kingdoms. However, it is not clear if there was a general ruler of the Quadling quadrant (either the whole hog or a sizeable hunk) before Glinda was appointed to the role. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:49:31 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Translated names M'sieu Hulan: > Or the great cartographer > Mercator, who I believe was born Kaufmann or something of the sort.) Gerhardus Mercator was born Gerhard _Kramer_ (=Mercator="Merchant") And let us not forget Carrollus Linnaeus, father of modern txonomy, born Carl Von Linne' Latinization of names was quite a vogue back then. On the other hand, I also know a "Carol" whose Hebrew name, "Shira", is a translation (both names meaning "song"), not a transliteration or substitution. I always thought that was cool. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:00:22 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 8-29-96 Bear: Imagine what Trevor would be asking for that 1st ed. WoO if it were in pristine condition! And hold up on that check; isn't Eric an Oregon resident? He probably ran right over with cash-in-hand. :-) And I agree with Homer's thought on the WWW, but it was the Winkies she ruled over, not Munchkins, right? Robin: I've always been under the impression that when Oz came into being there were, among other purveyors of magic, a good witch and a bad witch in each of the four lands. And yes, where IS Gili?? Hey Dave, can you ask Ozma to look in the Magic Picture and let us know? Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 17:20:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: Wizard of Oz graphics Does anyone know where I might be able to obtain Wizard of Oz graphics on the WWW? Are there any sites where I can download them from. I am particularly interested in small items that I can use for buttons, bullets, and bars. I recently saw a web site where someone used a small pair of Ruby Slippers as bullets but, unfortunately, I can't seem to find it again. Or, does anyone know where I can obtain Oz shareware or purchase graphics? Thanks in advance! Jim:) ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 31, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:20:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Robin - Dittos in re Glinda. She's my favorite character in Oz. I think Gili is in the process of moving to the USA. That's why she is AWOL. ********* SPOILERS FOR THE HUNGRY TIGER OF OZ ************************ Well, I have finished the next RPT and she is really moving up the learning curve, IMHO. This was the best so far. The plot is more interesting. RPT does seems to work overtime to create strange creatures. However, you know how engineers are....... This book continues our thread as to who eats who or what. The Tiger puts away "three roast ducks" on p.30 and admits to needing something alive to eat to really satisfy him on p.32. As a result, he is lured off to Rash on p.43 to eat prisoners! Of course this never happens. "Down Town" is a bit much with "King Dad." It is here we learn that the cost of the groups breakfast is $99.68. So, at least in Down Town they use dollars and cents. I noticed this due to Eric's paper on money in Oz. The secret of the "Big Wigs!" This is really silly. Finally, RPT has a really foggy view of the physical world. On p.185, Ozma and the airman are rising into the sky. "...the sky darkened....Night has fallen. The higher we go, the faster time flies. It will be daylight in a few moments....See, it is tomorrow already!." Now why confuse children with this ridiculous explanation. The best part is she is beginning to work a little harder at developing her characters, rather than just throwing them at us in batches. Well, on to "The Gnome King of Oz." Happy reading all. ********************* END SPOILERS***************** Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:24:28 -0800 From: Bob Shepherd Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-30-96 Jim Whitcomb: Thanks Jim for all the information about the MGM Grand. I, too, am very saddened about it disappearing, particularly since I haven't had a chance to see it yet. I guess the best I'll be able to do is see your pictures on your Web page. I look forward to that. I would like to read the article about how MGM's Emerald City was built. Also, I would be interested in buying one of those Oz character pictures from the MGM if they become available. Please keep us posted on what you learn. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Shepherd Sun Microsystems, Inc robert.shepherd@west.sun.com Quality Systems Beaverton, OR phone: 503-520-7696 FAX: 503-520-7730 Deep Thought of the Day: I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:51:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest David: Everything you said about the possible spheres of influence (otherwise known as the royal writ) in the Gillikin Country is very close to what I believe as well. Since we are discovering new countries to this very day, it is quite easy to imagine several independent kingdoms amongst the withces rule, either pockets of resistance, or simply just well-hidden. ********** SPOILER FOR _GIANT HORSE_ AND _LOCASTA_ ********** Quiberon, Cheeriobed and the Ozure Isles: I used to believe that this whole incident must have taken place even before the Wizard arrived, since Dorothy met the GWN in _Wizard_ and the Wizard himself mentions a good witch when HE arrived. The only troubling thing was that Tattypoo/Orin described the incident as taking place "about 25 years ago". I had to assume that her memory was damaged by Mombi and several decades were lost. However, thanks to Dave, we now know the truth of Locasta and in fact it seems very likely that the kidnapping and such took place between _Wizard_ and _Land_. While it is possible that the enchantment of Quiberon may have taken several years, it is not likely that Mombi would have waited so long. She would have wanted them punished immediately. According to Orin, Mombi kidnapped her three years after the wedding and "later" sent Quiberon to guard the isle. While it is possible that the king in _Road_ was Cheeriobed, wouldn't Ozma and company get a little curious after about 10 years or so of a total communications blackout from the Munchkin capital? IMHO, there is no real need to justify the unnamed person in the parade as Cheeriobed, so in all likelihood he is not. Any old stand-in would have done. It may even have been our old friend Boq, from the very first book. ********** END OF SPOILERS ********** Magic in/before Oz: I believe that there is ample evidence to show that there were workers of magic in Oz before Lurline's enchantment. This is one the very few points on which Robert Pattrick (_Unexplored Territory in Oz_) and I disagree. Also, it seems clear that there was at least one good and one wicked witch in each quadrant, it would be a little too coincidental if there was only one. From FF and non-FF titles, there were more than that at least in the South and North. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 19:26:10 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-30-96 Gordon: >In older usage, however, Zettel had two >additional meanings: 1) the warp of a weave; and 2) an oafish peasant. >So Zettel der Weber is really a clever pun on Zettel's (=Bottom's) >personality as well as profession. (Frankly I doubt that most modern >Germans would pick up on this pun; I only recognized it since my >specialization is 18th- and 19th-century literature.) Well, that's fair enough, since most modern English-speakers don't realize that "bottom" in Shakespeare's day also meant "a clew or nucleus on which to wind thread; also a skein or ball of thread". [OED] -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 21:25:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Jim - Thanks. Great work, albeit a sad result. I'm sure many of us would like to see the article on the development of the MGM Oz exhibit. Keep us informed. Gili - Sorry to spread disinformation. I guess it is you for the USA later? Ruth and any others - Would you do me the kindness of calling me "Bear." Only my mother called me "Richard Bauman" and then only when she was very angry with me. When she was very, very angry it was "Richard David Bauman." It still makes me cringe. Dave/MAD - Thanks for the forehanded/backhanded education. MAD, life is a constant struggle to communicate clearly. Anything we can do to promote that helps. I happily admit I wouldn't have known a "wav" if it bit me, but I have learned. Who knows, someday you may learn to spell and use capitals. :) Dick - I think Eric lives in Seattle. By the way Eric, how goes the job hunt? Wishing you luck if you are still in the job market. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 22:00:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: Maureen McGovern (from David Hulan) David: Maureen McGovern has been around quite a while. She used to be dubbed as the "Queen of the Disaster Movie Theme". She sang the theme songs to Irwin Allen's "Poseidon Adventure" ("The Morning After"), and "The Towering Inferno". She also sang the theme song from one of the "Superman" movies, I think the first one, I'm not sure. And, she sang the theme from the short-lived TV show, "Angie" starring Donna Pesco from "Saturday Night Fever" fame. Does any of this help you know who Maureen is now? She does take some liberties with her rendition of Arlen's tunes because in addition to being a terrific singer (in my opinion) she is a great stylist. On "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" she does some incredible "scatting" at the end, one of her signature trademarks. Maureen did a version of "Over the Rainbow" back in the mid-'70's and now she has done another version on her new CD. They are both different and it's interesting to hear the differences. If you hear a copy of her tunes from a friend's CD, or decide to buy your own, I hope you enjoy. I know I did! Jim:) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 21:19:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-30-96 Gee, but I'm glad Gili's o.k. Glinda doesn't have to be a fairy. Whatever she is, she's "big time." Even Lurline seems to appreciate her. Wasn't she invited to Lurline's council when Ozma went?. She "feels" kinda Celtic to me, and I'm not quite sure why. The swan/stork chariot? Nah. But if her pet dogs show up with red-tipped ears, watch out! I don't know who or what she really is, but she's one of the most intriguing characters in the series...and one of the few who always functions as a mature adult. Steve: Check with Marc Lewis for WIZARD scripts. That show went through so many interpolations that you may have a real hunt on your hands. Michael H. would probably know where there's a copy. Have you checked the Lib. of Cong. and the N.Y.C. Public Library? How about the publisher? Which version do you want? The first one? For those who don't know what I'm talking about, the show went through many permutations as the production company tried to keep it fresh. From what I've been told, quite a few of the songs added in later had little, if anything, to do with the story. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 31-Aug-96 11:33:03 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things GLINDA: Robin wrote: >Glinda doesn't have to be a fairy. Whatever she is, she's "big time." >Even Lurline seems to appreciate her. Wasn't she invited to Lurline's >council when Ozma went?. She "feels" kinda Celtic to me, and >I'm not quite sure why. Me neither...but that intrinsic Celtic-ness must be in Glinda somewhere, since at least two Ozian illustrators (Me and the late Marcus Mebes), and maybe three (Chris D. says you do too, Melody!) depict Glinda as the Irish singer/composer Enya. Enya *IS* distinctly Glinda-esque, especially in her "Caribbean Blue" and "Book of Days" (or of Records??) videos. -- Dave ======================================================================