] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 1, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 07:44:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-96 > From: jnw@vnet.net > Subject: islands and belts > > I once went to Oz in a dream an was told that there were a number of > small, rocky islands in the desert. Some magic workers who really wanted > to continue to practice magic had been allowed to move to these islands, > which were not included in the "no unauthorized magic" decree. Sounds like the basis for an interesting book to me. > From: Gordon Birrell > Subject: Plot-driven vs. episodic narratives > > Here's a trivia question: who amongst you can remember--without looking > it up--the name of Professor Marvel's horse? Me! (Well, THAT was the question, not what the name of the horse was -- which was Sylvester, I might add...) > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-96 > > Dave - Please, please don't break the digest up into subsets. > Please don't. :-) I think what's being discussed here is NOT breaking the Digest up, but adding a new group for those who want to discuss the HACC, continuity, etc. This would be in addition to, not in place of, regular posts in the Digest. That way, those who do want to discuss piddling points of minutia ad nauseum can do so without bogging the Digest down. > From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu > Subject: Oz > > David Hulan: > Your spoiler for GLASS CAT was not a spoiler at all, for it would have > spoiled nothing. Depends on the reader. Some people don't want to know ANYTHING about a book before they read it (or a movie or TV show before they see it, for that matter), while others don't mind little tidbits that enhance their anticipation. I say, better safe than sorry. > Eric: > You mean this *isn't* a newsgroup? (You can tell that I am still new to > the internet). No, it's not. Newsgroups are what you have in Usenet (another part of the internet, for those of you wondering -- no, e-mail is not the ONLY function of the 'net). Each is devoted to a single topic, and anyone who has Usenet access can come along, post a note there, people can come along and reply to it. Then people can reply to the reply, and so on. Newsgroups are open to everyone who wants to look, not just those who request it (like this here Digest). I myself am a regular reader/poster in newsgroups about "Doctor Who," "Babylon 5," the "Star Trek: The Next Generation" collectible card game, the Olympics (boy, has THAT group been busy of late!), and writer Peter David. In the past I've also been a part of groups about "Animaniacs," "Tiny Toon Adventures," the Seattle Mariners, alternate history stories, and Douglas Adams. Perhaps the newsgroup most people here would be interested in is rec.arts.books.childrens, since that's where what little Oz discussion there's been in usenet has appeared. > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: digest > > I do wish that some people would stop putting words or concepts in my mouth. You too, huh? > I am disillusioned, Eric. You do not recognize the reference to Ruby Red > Rutabagas? I am soooo disappointed. Have you not got a heart? If you need > one, you will have to plant some Ruby Red Rutabagas. But do be careful to > avoid planting Munchkin seeds by accident. At least we found out where > Munchkins come from :-) Look, Chris and everybody else, as much as I love Oz, there's just too much other stuff going on for me to reread every book every day and rewatch all my videos every week so I can pick up and remember every single little reference. Yeah, I know now it's from one of the very earliest episodes of "Tales of the Wizard of Oz," but sheesh, cut me some slack! I know you were only kidding, but honest, I can't always remember everything! > (okay, for those who think I am even more crazy than you used to think, this > is a reference to a very strange cartoon from the psychedelic age, which Eric > was kind enough to make illegal bootleg videos of for me). And now you're making me look like some sort of video pirate! I think I've only ever made four copies of that, I'm real reluctant to make more (partly because of the lousy quality of my copies, partly because I'm missing four episodes, partly because I have no time, partly because it's probably illegal, or at least falls into legal grey area). Any lawyers reading this Digest, don't call the FBI on me, please! > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) > Subject: Re: the tunnel of Oz (again) > > Are we back to this again? I think the tunnel under Oz was a hot topic > when I first joined the Digest. . . Like so many other topics here, it just keeps coming up again and again. > Why not KISS it and say that someone dug through it again after Ozma's > plugging? I think there's an even bigger question about the tunnel that nobody's brought up: Why is the Barrier of Invisibility there? We've heard nothing aobut it since "Patchwork Girl," yet there it is! > The consensus seemed that Eureka's sudden reappearance should best be > explained by some unwritten book between her leaving Oz and coming > again. Been done, by March Laumer. Although I can't recall which book it was just off the top of my head. > From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) > Subject: Runaway > > Almost inevitably, though, I found I had three itches about the book. > Is there a doctor in the Digest? I can't answer all three of them, but I can answer one of them: > (1) What happened to Morrow, as in Books of Wonder/Morrow ? William Morrow and Company is Books of Wonder's partner only for the reprints of the Baum books. The rest of BoW's output is their responsibility alone, including the Neill books, their reprint of "Merry- Go-Round," "The Sea Fairies" and "Sky Island," and so forth. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > On the guy who wants to use Peter: > Should we snail-mail him? I hope he does not get caught using Peter... :-( Of course, the Club won't publish a book that violates copyright anyway (or, should it win, it might be possible that they'll make arrangements with Dorothy Curtis Maryott to use Peter). > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-96 > > Eric et al: I still don't see the need for any other group. Dave is doing > fine with this one and has my respect and admiration for the job he's doing. > Why mess with what most of us seem to consider success? Very few people > have complained about the way it's running, Dave seems willing to try to > accommodate those few who do want to do something else and, basically, it > sorta seems like the old "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" thing to me. I'm not complaining, and I CERTAINLY don't want this Digest to die out! But it IS getting big and long, and a huge part of it is now the header of all the people it's going to! All I'm suggesting with a newsgroup is that it would give us another outlet for Ozzy postings, and more people will find out about Oz on the internet by coming across the newsgroup than by maybe hearing about this mailing third hand or something. It would be the perfect place for people to go, for instance, who are wondering about that hanging man in the background in the movie, then we can all jump in and educate the person asking. There are enough people here and enough discussions going on that I think a newsgroup could work, and all I was doing is bringing the suggestion up again in regards to what someone was saying about volume in the Digest or something like that. > If you want to start a newsgroup, O.K. No one's stopping you, but why bother? Because one person can't start a newsgroup. It takes a concerted effort by a large group to form one. There is a lot of discussion that goes on before a vote can be taken, and there needs to be at least one hundred voting for the group's formation and a CLEAR majority (it's not just 50% + 1) in favor. > Talking in "real time" formats would be difficult with a largish bunch of us. That is not how a newsgroup works at all. As I said above, people post a note to the group (very similar to posting a piece of e-mail), then others can read it and respond. But the posts stay up for several days, and you can read them at your convenience. What you are thinking of is IRC, which IS real-time chat. > Also, if memory serves, although my server definitely will FTP and all > that, you were never able to clearly tell me how to do so, so I couldn't > join in. Because not all servers have IRC available (I know you can't through AOL), and how to access it is different for every server. You would have had to ask your local sysop, not me. > I'm afraid many folks will find themselves in the same boat I > was in. Many of us are just not all that "into" computers. Me? I'm > lucky I can sometimes master e-mailing and getting into the Web and using > Telnet. Which is now the greatest argument I can think of for not forming an Oz newsgroup. All I was doing, everyone, when I brought it up, was to stick my toe in to test the water, and not only has the temperature not even risen, it feels like it's been bitten off! So just forget about it, I'm NEVER going to bring it up again, and if it ever becomes necessary to form an Oz newsgroup, you're just going to have to find somebody else to educate the ignorant masses and spearhead the campaign, okay? Because it sure won't be me. > Conventions: One thing *is* different about the Winkies, other than the > venue. The Winkies REALLY do a deal with the costume parade. Y'all, you > just can't believe how terrific some of those costumes are. We're > talking professional levels here. And Eric does a dandy job as the > Master of Ceremonies. Just wait 'til you see what Karyl has cooked up for me to wear this year... > O.K. One more thing is different: the food. I > think I'll just not elaborate on it, but do any of you Winkies remember > the year we had "M&M Chicken"? No, but that's because I remember who I'm talking with at dinner more than what I'm eating. (The food is far from outstanding, so I've got to remember SOMETHING.) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > SHANOWER'S BOOKS: > Warren wrote: > >Ah, but in black and white it's different! To me his black-and-whites > >came across as Neillesque in their Ozziness. > > For more Shanower in Black & White, try _Wicked Witch of Oz_ and _Giant Garden > of Oz_. BTW, the Huntington Beach Library that I said had _Giant Garden_ > on order now *has* it! (I checked it out today.) And don't forget the two issues of "Oz-Story" and the "Oziana"s he's drawn (and in some cases written) for as well. > DIGEST ON THE ROCKS???: > Robin O. wrote: > >Eric et al: I still don't see the need for any other group. Dave is doing > >fine with this one and has my respect and admiration for the job he's doing. > >Why mess with what most of us seem to consider success? Very few people > >have complained about the way it's running.... > > And those who have certainly haven't said anything to *ME* about it! Please, > folks, if you have a complaint about how I'm handling the Digest, *PLEASE* tell > me about it, I want to know what's on your mind! -- Please don't just gripe > behind my back, which is what I'm starting to suspect is going on... The ONLY complaint I have is that the thing is becoming a little large (not large enough I can't handle, however -- hey, I do contribute to a LARGE amount of that size!), and that the online Oz community can be so much more visible to the entire internet. Both of these, IMHO, can be solved with the formation of an Oz newsgroup. This is OUTSIDE of the Digest, so there's nothing you can do about it, Dave, so don't sweat it. --Eric "I'll just crawl back into my no-posting-ideas-or-opinions shell here" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 10:21:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-96 Help, please: I know this isn't Oz, but so-o-o many of us know juveniles that I thought a DIGESTer might answer this for one of my customers. What series has a main character named Araminta? The name sounds like a Cinderella stepsister to me, but that's not very helpful to this gal, who is looking for Araminta books. Cold/wet and Oases: Randy and Kabumpo are both cold and wet from the River Road when they get to Torpedo Town in P.PRINCE. Jack Snow has the Fire Folk living on an oasis. "'An oasis on the Deadly Desert?' asked the Shaggy Man incredulously. 'Certainly. Did you ever hear of a desert that didn't have an oasis?' replied the fire creature."(SHAGGY MAN,199) Professor Marvel's horse" Sylvester, of course! I'll bet lots of us know that. (Sheesh...I hope I'm remembering that movie correctly....) OZIANA: The character of Peter was used with permission. Also, a few years ago I got specific permission to use Eloise's sequel about Ruggedo for our "professional" issue. Actually, Eloise had to dig out the tale for me. And for those who'd like her to write more Oz, so would I, but I think we're all gonna be out of luck here. She and Lynn wrothe MGR as a labor of love. FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN was written as more or less of a favor (I forget the whole story now) and she really didn't feel like doing it. I saw several early versions of that book, and, I *promise* you, she used a great deal of professional skill and experience in editing and rewriting her own text. Amazing. She's a fine writer. You betcha it's a focused book--now. It wasn't, at first. At first, it was barely recognizable as being her work. This is not a put down of Eloise. It's a paeon to her skills. Those of us who write understand how very different an early draft can be from a completed one. Anyway, she really isn't interested in writing more Oz. Neither is Lynn, apparently and, although I don't think anyone's asked him, I can't imagine Bill's wanting to mess with Oz. (But he'd do a good job if he did!) Whoever it was (Danny?) who wanted "Eldritch Horror..." I can't remember which issue, but if you e-mail me privately I'll try to find it for you. I have the OZIANA files. BEST OF... and INDEX TO: The Board of IWOC has approved the first project. I'll ask Michael Gessel, editor of Special Publications about it. I don't know anyone who wants to undertake the INDEX. If all it'd involve would be indexing titles, authors, and illustrators, I might do it. If it involves indexing character appearances,etc., I think it'd be an almost overwhelming task and not worth the effort. How do y'all want OZIANA indexed? I guess I'm the one to tell, since I edit the thing. Book Contest: Steve wrote out many of my own thoughts. Too bad the guy who needs to see them can't access e-mail often. But for the rest of y'all who write, I essentially agree with Steve and, like him, I'm one of the judges. Barbara Koelle is the third judge. The three of us will read all of the entries and narrow the field for the final judges, who have not yet been officially named. Gili: Why not tell us DIGESTers what the quotes are that you have to work into your essay? I know you don't need help. You're quite a talented writer. However, it'd probably be kinda fun for *us* ;-) ;-) and maybe for you, too. *AND* whaddya mean "*attacked* and hugged by a perfect stranger"? I knew *you* even if you didn't know me. O.K., so maybe I was a bit enthusiastic. BTW, I was startled to find that you were actually there. Fred had deliberately kept that info from me, setting you up as a kind of "surprise." You were. A delightful one. Bear: Sure I read fast. I'm an English teacher! Actually, it takes me several days of concentrated reading to enjoy LOTR. I essentially lock myself away from the rest of the world for that time period, take a humongo container of ice water and some pretzels, lotsa pillows, and hunker in for the duration. It's a treat. As I said, it's my annual Xmas present to myself. Dave: If there have been gripes about the DIGEST behind your back, I'm not aware of them. I was referring to the few gripes some folks have posted. The only gripes I've gotten related to the DIGEST that have *not* been posted, have been about some of the more negative comments a few people have made. And most, although not all, of that kind of stuff has worked itself out quite nicely. Please don't get paranoid on us. Believe it and accept it, please, when we compliment and thank you. We mean it. You're doing a helluva good job. (Gonna censor out the profanity in the previous sentence?) And now you may blush if you feel the need to do so. --Robin O. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 11:23:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-96 dave the digest is fine the way it is its done in the form it should be a digest if someone wants to create a mailing list (ie every single letter including the one you write gets sent to everyoen on the list including you at whenever they are wrote)then go ahead those fill up mail boxxes alot quicker and take way longer to download bear everyones address is on the top of the message they write dave makes sure its there just look up at the top of my message my email address is there all if you got a problem with the digest either talk to dave directly or post a note about it to the list going behind his back isnt nice the man puts alot of time into this all again perhaps i spoke to soon about the oz wonderland comics being all over my area i just checked one shop nad none were to be found and another in another of my places i used to live and htey didnt have any and another in my home town had number 3 ill keep looking though as for oz 12 i did find that hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 11:07:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: The Digest on Usenet I want to cast a vote against the idea of creating a Usenet newsgroup out of the Digest. Sure, the present format is bulky and byte-heavy, but it has the feel of a big family discussion, and it's easy enough to scroll through material that you find less interesting. And Dave: I particularly like your concluding sign-offs, which serve--for me at least--as a reminder of the benevolent presence behind this whole enterprise. The Usenet format with its threading mechanisms may be more efficient, but it is also cold and impersonal in comparison to what we have now. We would also have to contend with all the spamming that goes on in the newsgroups--an additional headache for Dave as moderator. Finally, all of us who log on via Unix servers would have to compose our postings on vi, which is surely the most diabolically difficult word-processing program ever conceived. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 12:21:52 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06/27/96-06/28/96 ======================================== >>From: Kenneth Shepherd >>Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-26 *posting* >>Re: Ozma's nude swimming << Badger--It's true that a lot of people react adversely to the idea of the ruler of Oz swimming au natural. I myself have a hard time with the image. But above that I think that it really destroys the public image of a _ruler_ to be seen sans garments. Look at what happened to the Dutchess of York (admittedly not a ruler, but a member of a royal house).... >> True, but Fergie's the sort of look and physique I greatly admire, so I sure had no problem with it. << Your point about nude bathing in Europe is taken. But Oz is (and was designed to be) an AMERICAN fairyland. >> True, but it's not *set* in America.... And as a *monarchy*, it's not actually designed as very "American".... << There's always been a strong element of prudery in the American psyche. >> True, unfortunately. It's probably why I read somewhere there are eleven countries that are "more free" than America. The source didn't cite which countries, or I might have packed my bags . << One of the things I have always enjoyed about Oz as I grow older (and older) is the way in which it reflects an ideal America. >> Which would it be then? Prudery or an ideal America? Can't have one with the other (I mean, individuals can be, and can continue to be, prudes, but in an ideal American they would be unable to *impose* their prudery and personal "morals" on those who *aren't* prudes). ======================================== >>From: "Aaron S. Adelman" << Badger, concerning your comments on nudity: Strange, I never considered America very prudish when it came to sexuality, though in nudity I'll agree that they're definitely not on the same level as Europeans. >> On non-cable TV in Europe and England, they have little problem showing bare breasts. Outside of some cable documentaries (and HBO movies or "Real Sex" documentaries), how often do we see the beauty of the human body actually displayed? It is said that the first time we'll actually see nudity on TV in on the soaps; they do get really close, but so far, not enough courage. << Though in Jewish theology, at least, humans being created "in the image of G-d" applies only to the human mind, as G-d in Judaism is believed to be incorporeal; hence in Judaism nudity is frowned upon and the dress of religious Jews tends to be conservative. >> Fascinating: I never heard that concept before. Does Judaism explain how Deity came up with the corporeal blueprint? It'd have to have been planned out. ======================================== >>From: Eric Gjovaag >>Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-28-96 << Badger, I hate to sound like I'm badgering you... >> No problem: I get that a lot. I've even used it myself. << ...but is there some other way that you can identify whose post your replying to? An extra > in front or somehow including it within your << >>'s is all it would take to clarify things immensely. Thanks. >> You mean like with this header? That'd work. I use the equal-sign lines to deliniate and enclose my separate replies, except for the last one with which I conclude with my signature. This excludes *each* of my replies having my complete signature. True, this may also mean I am replying to posts a few digest's old, but it cuts down on Lotsa Characters filling up the Digest on my part. -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Don't be so open-minded: your brains will fall out." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 19:33:15 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-30 *please post* Re: The Harry Turtledove connection--I was introduced to Harry Turtledove's short fiction just this year by a colleague (who also has a Ph.D. in Byzantine history). I liked the short fiction a lot better than his "Lost Legion" books. For excellent historical fiction (as opposed to historical fantasy) I personally can't do better than the late Edith Pargeter (Ellis Peters--a wonderful lady) and Lindsay Davis Gordon Birrell--Re: Plot-driven vs. episodic narratives. Thanks for the further explication. I find that a lot of the irrelevancies may not further the plot of a single story, but they often have relevance to the history of Oz or the Continent of Imagination as a whole. Professor Marvel's horse was named Sylvester, wasn't he? Rich Morrissey--Re: the Monroe Doctrine. If I remember correctly the Monroe Doctrine didn't say anything about the United States having a right to interfere with the affairs of other countries on the American continents. It only said that the Western Hemisphere was closed to further colonization by Europeans and that the US would look unfavorably on any attempt to expand their territories. This doesn't invalidate your argument, of course... I think you and Tyler are absolutely spot-on in the analysis of relations between Oz and the Nome Kingdom. I immodestly direct your attention to "Imperial Oz: Ozma and the Nome Kingdom" in the winter 1992 Bugle for my views on the subject. Actually, there's another part of "Imperial Oz" that looks at Ozma's domestic policy between EMERALD CITY and SCALAWAGONS. It hasn't seen print yet because I have to convert it from an ancient word processor format to WordPerfect and I haven't had the time. There doesn't seem to have been much interest in Ozian research in the Bugle recently, but there's a lot of other interesting stuff. Bear--Re: your comment to Robin about LotR. You mean that there are people out there that _don't_ read Tolkien at least once a year? I've worn out two paperback editions of LotR and (a year or so ago) got so disgusted with the cover artist on the American edition that I went to Canada and bought the British edition. The cover illustrations alone were worth the cost of the trip. Dave--Re: the Digest. NEVER, EVER feel that we don't appreciate what you're doing. I think the overwhelming majority of the subscribers are very satisfied with the Digest. With the number of subscribers on the Digest now--what is it, 120 or so--there are bound to be some individuals who aren't satisfied. Those that aren't should start posting on the subjects that interest them. You're performing a service for us, and too often it's a thankless one. (Not to mention the fact that most of us, including me, wouldn't have the slightest idea how to do what you're doing). You deserve hearty thanks from each and every one of us. I intend to apply to the Royal Court for an official commendation from the Queen herself. HURROZ! HOZZAH! --Ken ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:49:37 -0400 From: homer Prof. Marvel's horse was named Sylvester, if I remember correctly. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 15:15:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy DIgest John WHite: I've often made an issue of complaining that in the later oz books, there is too much magic power around, but even in Thompsons books, the belt is only used once or twice in an adventure. Names and such: I always put my name at the bottom of my posts, just in case. Structured Oz books: Even in a "strong-plot type" does every word, sentence, chapter, character and scene always have to play a crucial part in the big picture? The obvious answer is no. Especially in Oz, there is always room for light, fun episodes that do not have deep meanings, just as there is room for serious stuff that means something. Rich: Good point on the "turnabout" theory. When Kaliko agreed to help Gos, he was implicitly approving of strong countries crushing weak countries. In fact, Kaliko says something very close to this in the book. Therefore, he had no right to get upset when Ozma did the same thing. The only difference is that now Kaliko is the crushed instead of the crusher. Rich again: The "breast incident" was a matter for CompuServe. The nation of Germany decided to block all indecent areas on the internet. At that time, CompuServe was unable to restrict access on a country-by-country basis, so it blocked access to 200 newsgroups using a list of keywords. One of those words was "breast", which ended up blocking the breast-cancer newsgroup. Said problem has been fixed. Gili and Dave: Overall, it would not be a good idea to have sub-digests. It is easier to just send out one big one and people can skip things they are not interested in. For people who are interested in "everything", it would be very hard to compile three or four posts a day, and then remember to send them to the correct address, and to make the correct references. Chris and makign quick $$$ I know a guy who knows a guy who can put you on a pyramid scheme. You buy this stuff from him for $6.00 a bottle and sell it for $10.00 a bottle. Of course, you can get others to buy from you in bulk at $7.00 a bottle and then sell it themselves... Also, you could come to Tucson and take a crash course from another guy I know about how to play craps and win. I could tell you how to win at still another Vegas game, but that's a secret I'd prefer to keep for myself... :-) W Baldwin: There is a much better IE about a glass man in _Disenchanted Princess_. --Tyler JOnes ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 16:20:20 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Recent Digests Gordon: Prof. Marvel's horse was Sylvester, of course. :) Eleanor Kennedy: Everlyn Copelman's illustrations, IMHO, seem based on the film. Question: Was that her intent? Barb DeJohn: Try to make the Munchkin Con. I've attended the past two years and found a great bunch of Ozzy folks, and a great way to add to your collection of books and other Oz related items. Eric Shanower and Rachel Cosgrove Payes live in nearby New Jersey, and have been there both years. I suspect Herm Bieber and the Warkalas will be there this year also. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Monday 01-Jul-96 03:39:58 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FITZGERALD IN OZ: The cable channels' recent interminable showings of _The Great Gatsby_ :) leads me to ask: I remember a long time ago someone here mentioning that F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote an (heretical?) Oz book. Does anyone know about this? _MASQUARADE IN OZ_ FOR SALE: I'm still selling my spare copy of _Masquarade in Oz_ (that I won in a Royal Club o Oz contest, even though I already had a copy of the book). It's a good story that I strongly recommend. I'm selling it for $5. Please E-mail me if interested. ( This is your last chance before I donate it to the Library! :) ) EXPRESSION OF GRATITUDE: Thanks to everyone for their kind words of support and appreciation for me and the Digest!!! :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 2, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 19:05:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls RichM >Yes, but she didn't. And, at least in America (though I can't speak for Oz) an attempt to commit a crime is punished less severely than if the crime is successful. Another teeth-grating example of the problem with our legal system. Rewarding failure. I hope Ozma views things differently. For the absent Hulan - I think he plans to finish EUREKA IN OZ this summer. Gili - >Bear - this how you mean, put our names on the TOP of digests? Sure, or any old way so we know who is talking without having to scroll to the end to find out. Reasonable? Dave - I, the once censored, and everyone on the Digest I have talked to privately, think you are doing a great job. Please do not start feeling paranoid. Without you we would be loose bytes in cyberspace and believe me we know it. Thanks again for all of your efforts to make the Digest possible. Weekend regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 01:31:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Female Equivalent of the Tin Woodman? I know someone suggested that someone create a character equivalent to Nick Chopper in the same way that Scraps is equivalent to the Scarecrow, and I request that he/she not do so because Barry and I have already written such a character into the second volume of _Lurline's Machine_, _The Last Emperor of Oz_ (current provisional title). (Actually "written in" is an understatement; Glissenda, as she is called, is a major contributor to the plot.) I am not at liberty to say anything about her except that everyone should be prepared to find Glissenda to not be much like they expect her to be.=20 Queasy: You mean she's not-- Kabumpo: Get out of here! We're trying to keep a lot of stuff about you secret too, starting with your appearance! Also: OK, I give in on plain text book titles, but as part of source code they look just plain awful! Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:48:50 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-96 ChrisBucket - here's a get rich quick plan ala Carlo Collodi: next time you plant dimes, put PLENTY of fertilizer on them. That way they grow into money trees a lot faster. Don't we all wish that really worked! :-) Thanks for the cow information! As for my as-yet unwritten essay, there are two problems sending it: A. I've never quite figured out how to send files, and I suspect I don't even have the capability for that. B. It's going to be in Hebrew. Not that I couldn't translate it into English, but I still haven't translated the paper I wrtoe last year about "The Wizard of Oz in the Theatre", nor the review I wrote for "Ha'aretz"... it will take me a while. And I haven't even written it yet! But thanks for your support! ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 14:03:53 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: FW: Wizard of OZ Books Received this question today. I am passing it on to the Digest so those of you with the knowledge to respond can do so if you want to. Bill W. >---------- >From: Bill Taylor[SMTP:btaylor@popalex1.linknet.net] >Sent: 1. juli 1996 02:18 >To: piglet@halcyon.com >Subject: Wizard of OZ Books > >I own the following Oz books: The Purple Prince of Oz, copyright >1932,The Wizard of Oz, copyright 1899 and 1903,The Royal Book of >Oz,copyright 1921, and Tik-Tok of Oz, copyright 1914. All are in fair to >good condition. The dates given are the only dates I can find in the >books. The Wizard of Oz is the only one not published by the Reilly >Co.It's published by the Donohue Co. They are probably circa the 30's or >40's but they may be older. >Any information you could give me about the value and rarity of these >books would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Charlot Taylor > >btaylor@linknet.net > >-- >Bill Taylor >btaylor@linknet.net > ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 09:16:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-01-96 From: Barbara DeJohn Hi Digest !!! The book store in Erie, PA is selling me OZMA and MARVELOUS LAND for $10.00. I don't know if they are first editions yet but I remember them being in bad shape. I do have BIBLIOGRAPHIA OZIANA so I can check it out. The other books they had they have decided to fix up before selling them. I wish that they would just sell them as is so they would be cheaper. Does anyone know how to tell if other than Oz Baum books are 1st editions? They have the Santa Claus, IX, and Yew books. I wish I could attend the munchkin convention but it would be to hard with the baby by myself. My husband will be out of town again. He just spent the last three weeks in Puerto Rico. The only advantage to him being away is the frequent flyer miles. So next year I'll get to go to a convention. Barbara DeJohn 10333.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 11:31:14 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: sysop O.K., I give up, what is a "sysop"? The word has appeared in the Digest several times lately and I have no idea what it means. I assume my ignorance is not mine alone. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 10:22:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-01-96 > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-96 [re: Araminta books] There IS a newsgroup devoted to children's literature (rec.arts.books.childrens), if you were to ask there I'm sure someone there could help. There are lots of "Help me ID this book" types of posts there all the time. > BEST OF... and INDEX TO: The Board of IWOC has approved the first > project. I'll ask Michael Gessel, editor of Special Publications about it. Volume 1: The 70's, I'd suggest. > I don't know anyone who wants to undertake the INDEX. If all it'd involve > would be indexing titles, authors, and illustrators, I might do it. If > it involves indexing character appearances,etc., I think it'd be an > almost overwhelming task and not worth the effort. How do y'all want > OZIANA indexed? I guess I'm the one to tell, since I edit the thing. I don't think indexing it by characters, etc., is necessary, just author, title, and illustrators would be fine. And I'd be willing to do that myself, if you'd like to farm the job out, Robin. (And hey, who says the Club has to publish it in the first place? It could be a privately printed affair offered for sale in the "Oz Trading Post" or something -- with the Club's blessing, of course.) > Dave: If there have been gripes about the DIGEST behind your back, I'm > not aware of them. I'M NOT GRIPING, ONLY SUGGESTING! AND I'VE WITHDRAWN MY SUGGESTION ANYWAY! NO, I'M NOT FEELING PARANOID, WHATEVER GAVE ANYONE THAT IDEA??? WHO TOLD YOU I WAS PARANOID ANYWAY??? > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-96 > > dave the digest is fine the way it is its done in the form it should be a > digest if someone wants to create a mailing list (ie every single letter > including the one you write gets sent to everyoen on the list including > you at whenever they are wrote)then go ahead those fill up mail boxxes > alot quicker and take way longer to download NOBODY is suggesting a mailing list! Let's just put THAT cat right back in the bag it came from! > all if you got a problem with the digest either talk to dave directly or > post a note about it to the list going behind his back isnt nice the man > puts alot of time into this NOBODY is having a problem with the Digest! (Where in the WORLD did this idea come from?) > From: Gordon Birrell > Subject: The Digest on Usenet > > I want to cast a vote against the idea of creating a Usenet newsgroup out > of the Digest. Suggestion withdrawn again, and will not be brought up by me again. > From: "< Badger >" > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06/27/96-06/28/96 > > [re: naked rulers] > True, but Fergie's the sort of look and physique I greatly admire, so I sure > had no problem with it. You like her, too, huh? A man with taste! > >>From: Eric Gjovaag > >>Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-28-96 > << ...but is there some other way that you can identify whose post your > replying to? An extra > in front or somehow including it within your << > >>'s is all it would take to clarify things immensely. Thanks. >> > > You mean like with this header? That'd work. Yes, MUCH easier to understand and figure out. Thanks for listening. > From: Kenneth Shepherd > Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-30 *please post* > > Bear--Re: your comment to Robin about LotR. You mean that there are people > out there that _don't_ read Tolkien at least once a year? /me raises hand. It's not from lack of desire, mind you, but there are so many OTHER books out there I want to read as well, and too much other stuff going on to be able to read all the time... (Remember the "Twilight Zone" episode with Burgess Meredith as a bookworm who just wants to be left alone so he can read? And he gets his wish? Well, if it were ME, I wouldn't have the same problem he has at the end, since my vision is 20/20...) (I have NO IDEA why I added that bit...) > Dave--Re: the Digest. NEVER, EVER feel that we don't appreciate what you're > doing. *I* appreciate what he's doing!!!!!! > You're performing a service for us, and too often it's a thankless one. Well, let's change that right now, shall we? THANK YOU, DAVE!!!!!!! > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > FITZGERALD IN OZ: > The cable channels' recent interminable showings of _The Great Gatsby_ :) > leads me to ask: I remember a long time ago someone here mentioning that > F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote an (heretical?) Oz book. Does anyone know about > this? He hasn't written an Oz book, but he did make an Ozzy reference in one of his short stories, which was reprinted (the whole story, not just the reference) in "Oz-Story #1" last year. > EXPRESSION OF GRATITUDE: > Thanks to everyone for their kind words of support and appreciation for me and > the Digest!!! :) :) :) And they are all well deserved. It was CERTAINLY not my intent when I sheepishly suggested the newsgroup to take anything away from all the work you have done! --Eric "Now can we PLEASE go on to talking about something else?" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 11:43:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: DIGEST Sorry for double-post Reminder: Fred Meyer's birthday is July 10. Address: Fred Meyer c/o Nancy Petrasko 1438 Ullman Appleton, Wisconsin 54911 Eric: I guess I thought you meant that chat group you used to head up on Thursday nights. Everyone: I kinda would appreciate knowing who some of you are who use nicknames. A few of you don't tell us who you really are. Please do so, if you think there's any chance that we don't know. Thanks. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:31:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Magic-users in exile: I remember some book (maybe non-FF) mentioning that a lot of wizards, etc. left Oz altogether when the ban on magic went into effect. Tunnel vs. Barrier of invisibility: The only thing I can come up with to explain why the Barrier suddenly appears when it has never been mentioned before is that Glinda specifically reinforced the are underground along the old tunnel route just in case. THis could explain why the barrier was never encountered anywhere else, even in other trips to the Nome Kingdom, such as in _Hungry Tiger_. Gordon: Oh, No! VI is still alive out there somewhere? Hachi Machi! :-( Ken and Rich: The closest thing I can think of that is similar to what Rich said is the idea on Manifest Destiny, which stated that America had the right expand from sea to shining sea no matter who (or what) stood in the way. Something similar happened in _Pirates in Oz_, when Ozma commissioned Captain Salt to explore and claim islands and nations in the name of Oz. He carried this out in _Captain Salt_, but some people have theorized that Ozma only did this to keep Salt busy and out of trouble, and had no real intention of really conquering other countries. Ken: I read your article and I really enjoyed it. One of your statements was that the Oz folks could have claimed that they had the right to force Roquat to give up the Ev citizens on the basis that what the Nome King was doing was morally wrong. The Royal Stats: We are at 124 digesters, including Dave himself. This is one below the record. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 15:03:53 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: trivia, cons, and plotting Gosh, as usual, so much stuff to respond to after a weekend. Where to start, where to start? Prof. Marvel's horse: The answer is me, as well. That was an easy one (at least to someone with a three-year-old who had an insatiable appetite for the movie). Here's another: Name four foods that are shown in the movie. Zim short for wizard: Also very easy, and I'm surprised no one has spoiled THAT one. Winkiecon: Details, details, people! I am not an IWOC member. When, where, how much? Episodic vs. strong-plot, pt. II: I was beaten out of my intended mention of the Odyssey as ancient episodic, but what about many parts of the Bible? The books of Genesis, much of Numbers, Joshua, Judges, I & II Samuel, I & II Kings, parts of Daniel, and I & II Chronicles come to mind. And then there's the gospels, and Acts, as well... Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, who, in deference to Eric, will not re-iterate his reasons why he does not personally want to newsgroup format (although to have done so would have taken up less bytes than explaining that he won't :-) ) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 21:35:50 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-1 comments *please post* Robin O--Re: Araminta. The only references I could find to an Araminta was ARAMINTA'S PAINTBOX by Karen Ackerman (1990). There's also ARAMINTA STATION by Jack Vance (1988), but I doubt this is what your customer wants. You might try a keyword search in the Library of Congress catalog online through The Library Network (www.tln.org). It also has links to the Library of Congress itself. I seem to remember there being an index to characters in children's fiction being published some time ago--possibly in the early 90s--by either Gale or Bowker. A good reference librarian should be able to put you on the track. Re: the McGraws. I must have missed the "professional" issue of OZIANA. Are copies still available? It's very disappointing that Mrs McGraw doesn't feel inclined to write another Oz book. She is an EXcellent writer. I had the pleasure of working on her entry in SOMETHING ABOUT THE AUTHOR, and I read a few of her non-Oz books at that time. Do you know if she's bringing anything out in the near future? I'd also wondered if you'd approached any other Oz-influenced authors for short stories. My thoughts would be Esther Friesner (whose "Majyk" books are somewhat Ozlike) and Patricia C. Wrede ("The Enchanted Forest" series). Badger--Re: Oz vs. America. Thanks for your comments. Just for the record: Although I'm a bit of a prude myself, I believe that it would be absolutely wrong for me to impose my personal morality on anyone else. My point is that this same imposition happens (or used to happen) in Oz the same way it does in America. I think that Baum's Oz is a kind of utopian vision of the United States. What interests me about that is that Baum advocates things that would no longer be accepted by most people in modern American society. Flutterbudget Center and Rigmarole Town in EMERALD CITY are two examples of this. Here we've got two groups of people who are mentally ill (and I say "mentally ill" because I'm assuming that they're not choosing their fears or their speech). They have been judged to be unable to participate in everyday Oz society. So the ruler's response is to institutionalize them. Note that they seem to have no choice in the matter; both the Shaggy Man and the Wizard say that the people "are sent" to live in Flutterbudget Center and Rigmarole Town. Then Ozma suggests that Dorothy's touring group visit the towns. This reminds me of the 18th-century practice of visiting madhouses to laugh at the crazy people. My point is that by modern standards Oz isn't always the utopia it's supposed to be; and that individual freedoms in Oz are sometimes suppressed for what is believed to be the greater good of the community. That's why I think prudery would win out over nudity in Oz. Perhaps Oz has liberalized in the years since the publication of EMERALD CITY and Flutterbudget Center and and Rigmarole Town have been abandoned. I sincerely hope so. --Ken ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 23:24:49 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-01-96 Eric - once again, the fact that people aren't interested in an Oz newsgroup is no reflection upon how we feel about *you*. Don't take these comments about newsgroups personally! I used to be a pretty regular lurker on rec.pets.cats. It was pretty useful to be able to screen out all messages that started with the word "Meow", in which owners wrote on behalf of their cats, and were written in a sickening version of babytalk. Some people like that kind of thing. But one of the things I find is so nice about the "Ozzy Digest" as it is is the more intimate nature - the way new posters are welcomed, we get to hear about new born babies and updates on Fred Meyer - not that these things would neccesarily be absent in a newsgroup, but I suspect a newgroup would be less intimate. Then again, maybe feelings wouldn't be hurt as frequently as they seem to here in the digest ... Robin, dear, I was thrilled to be hugged by you. And the food at the convention wasn't half as bad as I was led to believe it would be. Though I'm told I was there on a good year ... I missed the m&m chicken and the prawn sandwiches... |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 17:02:19 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest To Dick Bauman: From: Herm Bieber The following may be redundant, as I am two weeks behind in my Ozzy Digest reading. I've had several warning messages over the past year about the Good Times virus, but most of my sources who are au courant with computers now inform that this is a hoax. I don't know anything about the Trojan Horsae, PKZIP300. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 18:54:33 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests, 06-28 through 07-01-96 Playing catch-up here as best I can... 6/28: Steve: I'm about much of an Anglophile, literarily speaking, as one well can be (how I feel about their Colonial Office in the old days is something else...), but I didn't care for Mary Poppins. Trying her for the first time when I was 43 might have had something to do with it. On the other hand, the books are obviously not "terrible", or so many intelligent people with taste wouldn't like them so much. What the hey, I don't like Dickens either, but it would be difficult to say that his writing is "terrible". I just find it unreadable. Robin: I love all of Eager's books (though the "Magic or Not" pair are relatively weak); Nesbit varies quite a bit in my opinion, with the Bastable books (non-fantasy) being my favorites, and the House of Arden books being pretty weak. Chris D: I don't think the problem you're having sending data to Melody is a function of using a Mac IIci rather than a Mac Plus - although it's just possible that her computer can read Mac DS/DD (800Kb) disks but not HD (1.4 Mb) disks, and as I recall (it's been a long time since I used a Plus) the Plus only writes the 800Kb disks. It's much more likely, though, that you made some change in your word processing software that's causing the problem. (The result you describe sounds a lot like what happens when someone saves a document as, say, a Word 6 file and someone with Word 5 tries to read it.) But I should probably take this to private E-mail. Eureka was certainly uppity during her trial, irritating as all get-out, but being irritating has seldom been considered cause for capital punishment, and I don't think I'd care to live in a country where it was. Cause for a few days on the feline equivalent of bread and water, sure. (Maybe Little Friskies and water?) And I have an MS about Eureka nearly finished now; I hope it will see publication one of these days. 6/29: Danny: The best evidence seems to be that people in Oz aged more or less normally until Ozma's accession (with some exceptions - Glinda being a notable one). So within the Baum-Thompson books at least, anyone who appears young is a max of fiftyish in calendar years. (Reverse aging doesn't seem to be possible without direct magical intervention.) And it's also true that the young-looking people in Oz also retain the interests (and attention span) of their physical age, and so are unlikely to go in for the deep study of magic. Glinda, the Wizard, and Ozma are all officially permitted to practice magic; this is stated several times in the books. More problematic are all the other benign magic-workers who turn up over and over again, especially in Thompson's books, and who aren't punished for it even after Ozma finds out about them. Wumbo, for instance, or Ozwoz, or the Cookywitch. (I suppose it's possible that Ozma never really found out about Wumbo.) Moi: Glad to see that my original response to the 6-27 Digest was just delayed and not lost... Tyler: The Napoleonic Code is based on the Roman code, and neither is "guilty until proven innocent", but more "does it seem most likely this person is guilty". The "innocent until proven guilty" theory is from the English Common Law, which in turn descends from the ancient Teutonic tribal legal system. (I have read several quotes from people who have lived under both systems, and all have said, "If I'm innocent, I'd rather be tried under civil law [Code Napoleon or equivalent], but if I'm guilty, I'd rather be tried under common law.") Ken: Most of Burroughs' books are pretty episodic, but not all - CHESSMEN OF MARS, for instance, is pretty integrated. (The only two locales are Bantoom and Manator, and the Manator sequence is heavily driven by Gahan and Tara having picked up Ghek in Bantoom.) And WIND IN THE WILLOWS and some of Gray's books are really collections of short stories, like WINNIE-THE-POOH and the Mary Poppins books, and therefore inherently episodic. But you're right about the romance-vs.-novel difference; I was going to make the point myself but ran out of time. (OTOH, most strong-plot books are really romances; the true novel is almost always episodic, because it mimics real life and real life is almost always episodic.) I'm pretty sure that "=F6" is a hexadecimal representation of a character, and would be ASCII (15*16+6), or 246. I don't know what character ASCII 246 is, but someone can probably help you. (I have resources where I could look it up, but not conveniently and I'm in a hurry right now. If nobody tells you in a day or two, E-mail me and I'll look it up for you.) Dave: I wasn't thinking of another Digest - which would be a lot of extra work for you - but simply a group of people who would send simultaneous E-mails to all the other people in the group discussing those topics that are boring to other people on the Digest. If, indeed, there are that many people who are bored with such discussions. I haven't really heard too many complaints - Eric and Chris D. are about the only ones I can recall saying anything negative - but I'm willing to take posts of that nature off the Digest if there's a silent group of irritated Oz fans who just haven't said anything openly about it. "Rumpole in Oz" is a lovely idea! Too bad Rumpole is copyright... (I love Rumpole; anybody that grouchy and fat who drinks a lot is a kindred spirit to me!) And it's time for me to go pick up my wife, and we have a full evening planned, so I'll try to catch up some more tomorrow... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 19:29:43 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-01-96 Dave: >FITZGERALD IN OZ: >The cable channels' recent interminable showings of _The Great Gatsby_ :) >leads me to ask: I remember a long time ago someone here mentioning that >F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote an (heretical?) Oz book. Does anyone know about >this? I don't know about any books, but F. Scott wrote a short story in which Oz is mentioned. It was reprinted in OzStory #1. (Still available.) -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 19:32:46 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Munchkin Convention *** SHAMELESS PLUG FOR THE MUNCHKIN CONVENTION *** Well, I assume we've all turned our Oz calendars past the Gump centerfold, which means it's now July, and you know what that means: Only ONE MORE MONTH till the Munchkin Convention!! So send those registration forms in to Chris Sterling at 637 Ridgewood Road, Maplewood, NJ 07040. Or call him at 201-762-5770. Like the ads say, "Order Now!" *** END SHAMELESS PLUG FOR THE MUNCHKIN CONVENTION *** -- Eleanor and John Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 20:13:08 -0400 (EDT) From: swarkala@cris.com (Sharon Warkala) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-01-96 Barb DeJohn: I second the motion of Dick Randolf for you to come to the Munchkin Convention. The first one we went to was1989 and even though we knew nobody they made us feel right at home. Since then we keep up with the many friends we have made over the past years even though we get to see these people only once a year. It's worth the trip. P.S. If I recall correctly you are from the Pittsburgh area. Since my wife is from that area(South Park) you two may have alot to talk about. Chris Warkala ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 20:40:10 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-96 Professor Marvel's horse was named Sylvester. %%%%%%Slight SBM I & II plot spoiler %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "Gardener's Boy" introduced the concept, because it was published first, but In SBMII, Zim is told he needs a license to continue being a Sorcerer in Oz. (In SBMI he is so darned old, and seen so many laws and rules and regulations made and unmade, he has given up on keeping up with them. Also, the Tri-Rulers, upon getting the decree from Ozma, post it OUT of plain sight so their magic-workers never see it!) Phyllis Karr and I make Ozma a little more liberal in permitting more (good only!) magic-users in Oz--but, because magic-working is dangerous, Ozma still sees a real need to regulate it. %%%%PLot Spoiler END %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%5 Frankly, Baum, in creating the Belt, realized he had made a real plot-spoiler that could end an adventure before it began--and apparently was reluctant to do anything about it. Eric Shanower told me his editor hated the Magic Belt (for reasons stated above) so he only used it in "Enchanted Apples." There IS one expedient Baum could have used--destroy that Belt! Of course, we have probably all seen this done to death. Series Hero Acquires Powerful Magic Object Which He Conveniently Loses or is Conveniently Destroyed At the End of Episode so it does not make life too easy for the hero in future plots/books/TV shows. In "The Greatest American Hero," I KNEW the hero would lose the replacement instruction book for his super-costume at the end of that episode--because I knew the darn cliche stated above. He should have been allowed to keep it for at least a few episodes, THEN have it lost-destroyed-whatever. This sort of approach could have worked for the Oz series, too. As I imagine Zim quoting to Dorothy after examining the Belt in SBMIII: "Enjoy it while you can. I have owned enough magic talismans to know that they do not last forever." That's why Zim tends to avoid becoming too dependent on magical talismans--they make a magic-worker lazy and dependent on them--then helpless when lost. Good Gracious! SURE the Witch of the East was wicked--What about what she did to Nimmee Amee's boyfriends? Doesn't chopping up a couple of poor, innocent suitors just so she can keep one particular girl her slave qualify as such a wicked, nasty, hateful, downright EVIL act that she deserved to have Dorothy's house smash her flat? Nick Chopper and Captain Fyter would probably think so! : ) : ) After all, the WWE could just as easily have gone out and got another slave! Melody Grandy. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 00:08:20 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for Digest Hi, all. Sorry to have missed a day. Aol was having downloader problems for a long period yesterday, and I just now got to read both digests. Several people mentioned the Eureka issue, one even credited a heretical book explaining it to March Laumer, but no one remembered The Colorful Kitten of Oz. I am justifiably heatbroken, and it had some of Melody's prettiest pictures in it, too! As for the stuff about Dave not being appreciated, HUH? I think this digest is GREAT! It actually shows up on time (barring for the occasional goof from aol, which is hardly Dave's fault). For all it may be worth, I have tried to subscribe to the newsletter for Enya (majordomo@cs.colorado.edu and some other similar digests with no success at all. And I wonder if any of them would be half as interesting... However, I still do not have the valuable package from Dave. But I did get a gigantic box of those even more gigantic books from Melody, so I can take some to Winkie. Anyone attending, do be sure to bring your $25.00! IMHO, the cover alone is worth twice that! Do I show too much favoritism for Melody's art? I have to admit that it is hard to beat the greatest living Oz artist of all time (no exaggeration here, folks!). I am looking forward to seeing another Enya-ish Glinda, though. Dave may be offering her some healthy competition. IAE, look for these two illustrators to share the next Oz Club caledar! I still have several months open if there is any more interest. E-mail mail me at ozbucket@aol.com Oh, and I have just paid a portion of my phone bill, and it has been promised that I will not be cut off as long as I can get some more to them by the end of the month. So be expecting a lot more of my boring stuff that all of you probably just skip over anyhow. It is a new month, and I suppose that means that I am supposed to post my order list again, huh? I guess I can, but there is little new to add. I expect The Tin Castle of Oz ($12.00) any second now, and am about to beam a package to press containing Pegasus in Oz (which will be $10.00, and will feature special-order paper that is of much better quality, as well as some colored interior ink:-)). Melody is nearly ready to send her last illo to me, and then out goes Thorns and Private Files in Oz (Thorns, BTW, refers to Ozga. I hope I am not the only one who remembers her, though she was hardly one of Baum's more prominent characters... I do not yet know the co$t of that one). Don't worry, you will get a break as of the 8th. Rinny and I will be going to Cali to prepare ourselves to go to Winkie. (BTW, Dave, can you save up my digests for that week while I can't receive them? I'm not sure how long aol will keep them waiting for me on this end. We will be returning the following Monday, July 15. Prospective Criminals Alert: The house will be empty most of the time. Please do not take any of the unpublished books, as I am not sure I have copies of all of them. If you plan to steal the computers, please save everything on disk and leave the disks here for us. You may take the TV, but the cable-box is not ours, so please drop it off at Valencia Cable Co. Oh, by the way, the big dog that you will hear barking from outside is named No. She is very friendly to people who call her loudly by name. She really likes strangers. A lot. She especially likes it if you refuse to play with her. Really. She will be very quiet and gentle the whole time. I am not kidding. And BTW, the neighbors will not call the cops if she starts to bark at all. None of them are retired people, and all have better things to do than watch over our house. Oh, and if we forget to shut off the ice cube maker in the freezer, would you mind? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 00:32:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Barrier of Invisibility 1) Eric, perhaps the Barrier of Invisibility exists underground because=20 Glinda didn't specify that it be only above ground. 2) Badger, on how G-d came up with the human blueprint: I have no idea. = =20 I'm still trying to figure out such things as why mammals and not=20 dinosaurs, why five fingers and not four or six, and why no tails and=20 nowhere near enough fur. I'd like to get a look at a wide assortment of=20 sentient extraterrestrials before even hazarding a guess. 3) Kenneth, re your comment to Bear re your comment to Robin about The Lord of the Rings: It's been years since I've read anything by Tolkien.=20 The nearest thing I've read to his work recently is the parody Bored of the Rings, which unfortunately goes too far at times. As for things I find surprising people don't read--though mostly on an irrational level--include the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament (because they believe in it or to know why not to believe in it), The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, and Lewis Carroll's Alice Books.=20 Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman =F3=F1=E5=E9 =EC=E5= =E0=F9 =EF=E1 =E4=EE=EC=F9 =EF=F8=E4=E0 adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 02-Jul-96 02:54:15 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things PUBLIC RESPONSES TO PRIVATE MESSAGES: I've been noticing some people making responses to people on the Digest, and I don't know what they're talking about. I am suspecting that either I am not reading the Digest carefully enough, or some people are making "public" (i.e. on the Digest) responses to messages that were private. If the latter is true, then please make your replies to private E-mail private as well. Thanks! QUESTION FOR THE OZ BOOK CONTEST JUDGES: In order for a candidate book to be accepted by the initial three judges and moved on to "Phase Two" evaluation, does it have to be approved by unanimous vote, or by just a majority? WEIRD CHARACTERS: With the current talk about hexidecimal character codes showing up in messages, for a demonstration I have in Aaron's post for today retained the codes that appear in his messages, so you can see what they look like when I first receive them from him... EVERY DAY IN EVERY WAY...: Ken wrote: >Perhaps Oz has liberalized in the years since the publication of >EMERALD CITY... I like to think that Oz (and the Oz people) are capable of growing and changing for the better, though I know not everyone agrees with me... QUEEN OZMA AND OTHER "SHE"S WHO MUST BE OBEYED :) : David H. wrote: >"Rumpole in Oz" is a lovely idea! Too bad Rumpole is copyright... Even though Rumpole is copyrighted, I may still write it just for the fun of it (ditto for _Columbo in Oz_). So what if I can't publish it until the latter part of the next century? :) ACTUALLY, THERE'S ONLY 122: Tyler counts 124 Digest members (including me), but actually Tyler, if you're counting E-mail addresses in the Digest header, you have to subtract two because there are currently two members who are on the mailing list *twice* under two different addresses. So, there are actually currently 122 of us. Oops! Someone just unsubscribed...Make that 121. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 3, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 11:47:38 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Dave You are continuing a great job (if not heroic effort) in handling the Ozzy Digest every day. Keep up the good work. The only concern I have is that it would be unreasonable of all of us to expect you to do this for the rest of your life. So we need to be thinking about how to carry on when the inevitable comes. To: Ozma@asu.edu Subject: Oz pages >I need to have e-mail permission for anyone's site that >I use. I think it would be fun to have a couple of Oz pages at least in >there. Sandy....permission granted. Just let me know what pages you are using and how they are used. I presume that this for educational use. Bill W. http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 11:57:06 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests 06-30 and 07-01-96 No Digest yet today, so I'll try to catch up with the last two days that I didn't respond to... 6/30: Gordon: I personally don't regard the Braided Man episode as being particularly wonderful, any more than I do the Musicker in ROAD, but tastes differ... I don't know why BoW considers DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD "metaphysical"; my take on it is that Baum had a contract to write a book of a minimum length and he found a pretty good beginning and then kept adding stuff until he'd reached the required length. It includes some good bits, but overall it's pretty weak. Rich: Certainly attempted murder isn't punished as severely as completed murder, but pushing Snip down the well showed that Mombi was still a Seriously Evil Character. And Ozma's punishments seem to be geared more toward how dangerous she thinks a character is than how bad the results of their actions have been. (None of the Oz villains ever seem to have done any permanent damage to anyone, except for Kings Phearce and Krewl, Mooj, and whoever [apparently Mombi, but I'm not sure of that] disposed of Cheeriobed's and Pastoria's fathers.) As for Eureka eating the piglet, it was a case of a natural predator (of very tender years) eating its natural prey; even if she had succeeded, I can't see it as a capital offense or even a terribly serious one. Exile to Kansas might be justified, but nothing worse. GLASS CAT is full of oblique references to things that, I hope, enhance the enjoyment of people who get them and don't interfere with the enjoyment of people who don't. The Borden cows were probably the most overt of them, but since it was pretty much a throwaway line (like the "Charlie" reference in MAGICAL MIMICS) I don't think it will be much of a problem for the countless readers the book will no doubt have 50 years from now... :-) Gili: Since your real name appears as part of your header, you don't need to do anything else. But some people have such obscure E-mail addresses that if they don't include their name as well as part of it (as, say, Bear and Tyler do - Compuserve addresses are particularly obscure) then they really ought to sign them somewhere. (As I do at the end of all my posts, although I'm on here enough that I think most people know by now that "DavidXOE" is me, as we know that "tiktok" is Eric and "ozbucket" is Chris D.) Of course, some people may want to conceal their real name, and that's legit. Steve: Since I said in GLASS CAT that Daisy was Elsie and Elmer's calf I didn't think I needed to add that in my explanation. And I wasn't even aware that there still is a Daisy Brand whipped butter; thanks for telling me. (Elsie and Elmer also had a boy calf whose name I don't recall, but he was born after the ads started appearing so wouldn't be known to Grand Dame Elwanda.) Dave: I don't think anyone has the slightest complaint about how you're handling the Digest. And I, at least, think you're doing a great job! Some people do seem to have complaints with some of the topics that some of the rest of us want to talk about, or at least with the length at which we want to talk about them. I think that was the only issue that suggested maybe taking some types of discussion out of the Digest might make some people happier. Incidentally, where are the Adelmans? Don't remember seeing a post from either of them in several days, and that's unusual. 7/1: Eric: I think the Laumer book that explained Eureka's return to Oz was CARELESS KANGAROO. I haven't read it, but Tyler described his solution to me and I didn't like it, so I'm writing my own. (Actually, I'd started writing it before I knew about Laumer's, but I saw no reason to stop.) I will say that the food at Winkie last year was considerably better than it was in 1993 (when it was terrible - so terrible that I didn't eat it in 1994, but went out for meals even though I'd paid for them at Asilomar and it meant missing some of the conversations). But the food at Ozmopolitan this year was better yet. Robin: Araminta rings a bell, but nothing specific comes to mind. She doesn't seem to be part of any series that I have in my own library, which means I probably read about her in a library book. If nobody else comes up with the information and you really need to know, let me know in private E-mail; I have sources that would probably be able to tell me. Gordon: Isn't there a better way of composing text on a Unix server than "vi" yet? I agree with your description, by the way - though back when my wife was working as a Unix programmer she quite liked it for writing code. That, I think, is what it was designed for - not writing E-mail... Ken: Don't judge Turtledove by his "Misplaced Legion" series. They were written very early in his writing career, and he's improved over the years more than just about any writer I can think of. Those books were interesting as sort of alternate military history, but not very well written. His last few books, though - particularly GUNS OF THE SOUTH, the WORLDWAR books, and THE TWO GEORGES - are as good as any other books I've read in the last five years, and better than all but two or three. His lighter recent books - TOXIC SPELL DUMP, PRINCE OF THE NORTH, KING OF THE NORTH, THE STOLEN THRONE, and the Krispos books - are also very good, but not in the same class as his alternate histories. The Monroe Doctrine didn't say anything about the US having the right to interfere in the internal affairs of other American states, but in practice it was used many times as justification for it - and the period when most of the FF were written was the one where it was used that way most often. Ah, you were the one who wrote "Imperial Oz". I liked that article very much - it's much more the sort of thing I'm interested in than the vast majority of what's being published in the BUGLE these days. (I find stuff about the movie and the biographies of FF writers interesting enough to read, but I probably wouldn't pay money for it.) Dave: I've never heard of Fitzgerald writing an Oz book, but he wrote a short story (reprinted in OZ STORY MAGAZINE #1) that had Oz references in it - clearly to the books, since the movie hadn't appeared yet. (Besides, at least one reference was to Mombi, IIRC - but it's fairly vague now, so I may not be recalling correctly.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 14:53:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-96 since i am one ill answer the sysop question a sysop is a systems operator they usally run local or telnetable bbs's they make sure the system they are running is working fine now a internet provider usally has a system administrator which is basically the same thing as a sysop as for where the people talking bad abotu the digest that was in a digest about 4 days ago and dave those wierd characters in that one message looks like some folks might be writting in html hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 16:39:38 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: OZ To put an end to the matter of =F6 being ASCII 246, I can tell everyone interested that ASCII 246 is a lower case o with two dots (an umlaut or a dieresis mark) over it. Here it is from my machine ; we will see how that comes out. OZ BOOK CONTEST JUDGE RESPONSE: I do not know exactly what the procedure will be, but we three judges will reduce the total number of submissions to (no more than) five, which will be sent to the final judge(s). How we do this will be dependent on the number of entries submitted. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 22:03:36 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Question for the digest *please post* I've just been reminded (in the process of doing research on something else) of Frank Donald Drake, the American astronomer, who launched a search for extraterrestrial intelligence from April through July of 1960 listening for messages on the 21 cm hydrogen wavelength (he didn't hear any). He called the search "Project Ozma." Question: Has anyone looked into the Oz aspect of Project Ozma? I'd like to know what Drake's relationship was with Oz--he must have read some of the books after WIZARD. I don't know what institution Drake was affiliated with, and I don't know if he's still alive. If he is, maybe there's the possibility of an interview for the Bugle. If anyone knows anything more about this, please email me. --Ken KSHEPHERD@MSN.COM ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 15:08:29 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Magic Users-- But evem if Ozma didn't catch an illegeal magic user, isn't that Glinda's job with her Book of Records? She should also be able to nip it in the bud, as magic is usually practiced before used. "There came a knock at the Crooked Magician's door. Two of Glinda's army guards, wearing black sunglasses and pressed suits asked the Magician politely, "Can you come with us, please." Also, would using a magic item make someone a "magic-user?" I know Ozma would not be so petty as to punish someone like that, but just for the sake of arguement I thought I'd ask. "Dorothy! I told you not to look at that Magic Picture! Back to jail you go!" BTW, it was my Moppet (even when I posted my gripe about the lack of following the magic-user law) that Ozma qualified her responce by allowing "Magic Licences" to be give out, after royal approval of paperwork was properly filed. (One of Wogglebug's favorite governmental duties.) Better stop before this becomes Police State of Oz, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 18:32:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Aaron: I'm going to agree with Eric here and say that if you keep giving away stuff about your series, there will no need to read it! :-) Steve: I am sure that you will get many responses to this. A sysop is short for "system operator". Essentially, this is a person or several people in charge of maintaining a site on the internet, be it an online service, a webpage, chatsite, blah blah blah. They are responsible for the physical maintanence, making sure that people can get connected, and are also in charge of making sure that everybody plays nice (no death threats, explicit language, etc.). Each system has different levels of control that they excercise. Some do not care what goes on the server, they only care that the server is functioning. Some of the more high-brow areas on the net are very careful in what goes on, both in subject matter and dirty words. Within the larger services, such as CompuServe and AOL, some areas will have their own sysops that are there on a volunteer basis, doing the work for their love of the subject matter. Eric and Mark: Eric is correct. Nobody has suggested a mailing list since Chris "all Tempa Ch-" Heer's server crashed. Also, I am sure that we all know that nobody has any problems with the digest. Some words just got misinterpreted is all, and we are all happy digesters :-). Eric "Now where did I put those glasses?" Gjovaag: Interestingly enough, the Twilight Zone that you mentioned was lsited as one of the top 100 moments in TV history by TV Guide. Too bad they did not see fit to mention the recurring MGM movie as one of those 100. David: Good point about young-looking people still retaining the mannerisms of the young. In this way, Dorothy, who I estimate is 103, still acts like a little girl, whether "little" is 5 or 16. I seem to recall a few magic-workers, or at least people who used magic items wickedly, in the Thompson books, who escaped punishment. In Baum, a standard practice was to confiscate magical items or remove the persons magical ability, such as happened to Roquat and Dr. Pipt. Mombi and Blinkie had their ability to practice magic stifled. The Su-Dic did not appear to use any magical tools, but his ability to do magic was ended when he was reduced to just one can of brains. Weird Characters: I don't have my ASCII chart, but =20 is 32, which happens to be the space. I suspect, that in Aaron's case at least, the server is breaking up long lines, and in the process, a space is lost, but the =20 goes in there to remind us of what once was... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 16:38:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-96 > From: Avigail Bar-hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-96 > > ChrisBucket - here's a get rich quick plan ala Carlo Collodi: next > time you plant dimes, put PLENTY of fertilizer on them. That way they > grow into money trees a lot faster. You get bigger bills if you plant quarters. Or better yet, a Susan B. Anthony dollar! > Don't we all wish that really worked! :-) No kidding! > From: Bill Wright > Subject: FW: Wizard of OZ Books > > Received this question today. I am passing it on to the Digest so those of > you with the knowledge to respond can do so if you want to. [message deleted for brevity's sake] I can use "Bib Oz" to answer the question, IF I can get a LOT more information. Color plates? Cover label or not? Number of pages in a signature? What kind of typeface on the publisher's spine imprint? All these need to be taken into account. But as for the Donahue "Wizard of Oz," this is probably from the teens or so, since that's when Donahue was reprinting a bunch of Baum's stuff, having borrowed the rights from Bobbs Merrill (Baum having signed them over to BM for a while as part of his bankruptcy settlement -- the Baum didn't get the rights back until after Frank's death, IIRC). BTW, how's Norway? > From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu > Subject: sysop > > O.K., I give up, what is a "sysop"? The word has appeared in the Digest > several times lately and I have no idea what it means. I assume my > ignorance is not mine alone. Sysop is a shortening of System Operator, the person in charge of keeping your local internet provider (in your case, pittstate.edu) up and running and happy. But the sysop (or sysadmin, short for system administrator) is also in charge of keeping the users in line with whatever agreement they may have signed with the provider, and they can suspend or terminate people's accounts if they get too many complaints about foul language, spamming, flames, and the like. > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: DIGEST > > Eric: I guess I thought you meant that chat group you used to head up on > Thursday nights. Oh, please! I'm nowhere NEAR trying to resurrect THAT again! Partly because I still need to figure out some parts of IRC myself, and partly because I have no bloody TIME to take care of that! (How can I be so busy, I'm on summer vacation!) > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Magic-users in exile: > I remember some book (maybe non-FF) mentioning that a lot of wizards, etc. > left Oz altogether when the ban on magic went into effect. Must have been non-FF, then, because I don't recall it being in the FF. > From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY > Subject: trivia, cons, and plotting > > Winkiecon: > Details, details, people! I am not an IWOC member. When, > where, how much? Contact the registrar, Patrick Maund, at ZMaund@aol.com. The convention itself is coming up very soon, it's July 12-14, and it will be at the Asilomar Conference Center in Pacific Grove on the Monterey Peninsula. Patrick can tell you if there are rooms left at Asilomar (doubt it at this late date), current costs, etc. > Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, who, in deference to > Eric, will not re-iterate his reasons why he does not personally want > to newsgroup format Bless you! (A simple "yes" or "no" would be enough, everyone, I don't need all your explanations.) > From: Kenneth Shepherd > Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-1 comments *please post* > > Re: the McGraws. I must have missed the "professional" issue of OZIANA. Are > copies still available? It was the 1990 issue, if that's still available... > Do you know if she's [Eloise Jarvis McGraw] bringing anything > out in the near future? I believe her latest book, "The Moorchild," is about to be published, if it hasn't already. > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-01-96 > > Eric - once again, the fact that people aren't interested in an Oz > newsgroup is no reflection upon how we feel about *you*. Don't take these > comments about newsgroups personally! It's not that, it's just that I feel (once again) that my position and suggestions are being COMPLETELY misinterpreted. I'm not advocating overthrowing Dave or anything like that, I was just broaching the subject again because someone made some comment (and I can't even recall who or what it was was now!) that made me think, "Gee, if enough people agree with this, maybe they will also agree that a newsgroup would help the problem." Enough people (okay, EVERYBODY) has said "No, Eric, now is not the time," so I won't be bringing it up again. (I'm curious, though: Is there anybody here who DOES think an Oz newsgroup might be a good idea, and not the end of the world as we know it?) > From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-96 > > Professor Marvel's horse was named Sylvester. Yes, I think we've all beaten that dead horse now (oops, sorry...) Last weekend on the Cartoon Network, they had a Super Chunk of "Superfriends," which fortuitously included the episode where Superman, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman go to Oz. So now I FINALLY have a decent, complete copy of that. But even better, the next morning I was idly flipping channels and the Blues Traveler video for "Runaround," with an Oz theme, was JUST starting on VH1. Now I have that one on tape, too! Add the recent Oz collector on fX, and my tape collection is growing again! Hey, does anybody want a copy of "Oz Squad" #8? Turns out I have two copies, and I don't NEED them both... --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 01:28:19 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-2 responses *please post* Sorry to post twice--MSN is playing games with me.... got my mail late this evening. Eric--Re: Tolkien reading. Ah, but then I'm *paid* to read Tolkien (and everybody else, including Baum). And I don't remember the "Twilight Zone" episode you cited, but it was in TV GUIDE this week so never mind. Tyler--Re: PIRATES. You have uncovered my dark secret. The example from PIRATES and CAPT SALT you cite forms the basis for second part of "Imperial Oz." I really must clean that up for publication (I think it went on the Research Tables at one of the conventions in '87 or '88, but I don't remember which). I felt the original was too long for Bugle publication so I split it into two parts: "Ozma and the Nome Kingdom" and "The Salt Expeditions." Right now it exists on a 5 1/4" diskette in something called Scripsit for the TRS-80. And thanks for the review and positive comments. I didn't mean to imply, though, that *I* thought the Ozians had the right to force their morality on Ruggedo/Roquat--I only meant that *they* thought they had that right. Mike Turniansky--Re: The books of the Bible. But the Bible is considered to be history, not novel--or at least nonfiction. And narrative history is always episodic. David H--Re: ERBurroughs, etc. Burroughs's early books (including CHESSMEN), were written for serial publication, so they would be episodic. If you're interested, check at your local library for AUTHORS AND ARTISTS FOR YOUNG ADULTS Volume 11 and look at the ERB entry. Nicholas Stuart Gray books are devilishly hard to find. I've been looking for OVER THE HILLS TO FABYLON for 3 years and no luck (Robin O, are you monitoring this?). It reminds me of what MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO might be if it had been written by an Englishman. Thanks for the confirmation on the hexdecimal character. These new computers don't come with ASCII tables in their manuals anymore. I'll do some research and will email you if I don't find anything. Aaron A--Re: Reading. One of my colleagues at the opera is teaching me a little Hebrew, so I hope to be able to tackle the Hebrew Bible one of these days. I tried the New Testament in Greek, and couldn't handle it. That may change if I keep on getting assigned these ancient history classes to teach... Enough. I must feed the importunate cat... --Ken ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 4, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 21:30:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Mark Anthony - Everyone's NAME is not at the top of the post. That was why the comment was made. Address is not equal to Name. Gili - Are you using one of those shudder "IBM-like" machines? Can't you just select your essay, copy it, close, open mail utility, paste it in? Should be trivial. Looking forward to your essay......Woops! I guess I'll wait for the translation. I might deal with your German, but not Hebrew. Bill W. - Why don't we have a little dialogue on the subject of fortune hunters with old copies of Oz books? Personally, I think it is a no win situation and they should be avoided or ignored. If you tell them too low they will be mad. If you tell them too high, someone might pay that and that would continue the escalation of book prices. Sigh. Some day someone is going to publish the "Oz Book Price Guide," and then we will be in the soup. Oz books are about the only thing I collect that don't have their own guide yet. Or is there one? Opinions? Barb - I would snap up those books. At that price you couldn't loose. However, FWIW, here is my theory about used books east vs left coast. In the east a used book is really used. In all that miserable weather it has been read many times. Pages loose, stains (possibly baby barf), tears, writing, folds, etc. On the left coast people arrive with their new books and find the weather is wonderful. They sell their books and go out and do it in the sunshine! As a result, used books out here are like new. Anyway, this has been my experience, in general. Steve - Sysop = System Operator, the person managing the system, e.g. AOL, that you are on. You call him when you have troubles and hope he is there. Eric - But, how long is your vision going to stay 20/20? Hmmmm? I remember that Twilight Zone - it was the saddest one I can remember....... Tyler >Glinda specifically reinforced the are underground along the old tunnel route just in case. She what??????? area? air? arch? argh? Ken Cope - Did you fall in your ink well? Miss hearing from you on the Digest? Wait until you see Ken's latest work! Herm, Michael T., et. al. - My apologies for the false alarm on "Good Times." My source claims to have been double scammed. Sigh. PKZIP300 apparently is for real. Any later news? Scammed again, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 22:16:40 -0400 (EDT) From: swarkala@cris.com (Sharon Warkala) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-96 Barb DeJohn: First editions of non-Oz Baum books are exceedingly rare with the possible exception of those he wrote under one of his many pseudonyms. They just don't turn up that often. They have been reprinted many times though. Some of the books you mentioned would command a high price if they were firsts. My guess is that they are all reprints. Chris Warkala ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 23:09:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" 1) Stephen, sysop is short for systems operator, the person who keeps your local big clunky machine up and running. 2) Gili, what are prawn? 3) Melody, on destroying the Magic Belt: Hmm. Why didn't I think of that... The Queasy (spokesbeing for the characters in Aaron's head): Fortunately, he's not serious. At least I THINK he's not serious... Quentin the Kiwi of Quok: Well, it'll only take a few shakes of my magic spatula and... 4) On what Gingemma did to be called the Wicked Witch of the East: At the very least, she committed treason by participating in the overthrow of Pastoria (along with Bastinda, Mombi, and the still not yet positively identified Wicked Witch of the South) and seizing control of one fourth of the country. Her treatment of Nick Chopper and Nathaniel Fyter was also not so nice, but it is concieveable that they had committed other offenses against her that they selectively forgot that aroused such harsh treatment. I find it rather interesting that after Baum in what I've read that writers tend to heap offenses on Bastinda (enchanting Flicker) and Mombi (enchanting Herby and Orin) rather than Gingemma. 5) Chris, what? Is Thorns supposed to be Ozga's Oogaboo-style surname? If so, I never suspected that Oogaboonians wouldn't consider flowers a crop. Also: You're not the only one who remembers Ozga. I already wrote her into _Mombi of Oz_, Eric and his coauthor Karyl Carlson (sp?) gave her a brief appearance in _Queen Ann in Oz_, and I've heard it mentioned on the Digest that she appears in David's _The Glass Cat of Oz_. As for her lack of prominence, that I would certainly have to agree to. In writing the chapter in which she appears in Mombi of Oz as a major character, I found myself having to create most of her personality from scratch; in everything I've read on her, she's been a rather passive character. Fortunately in the other recycled characters Barry and I have more to work on... n) Dave and anyne else who cares: The wierd characters at the end of my signature, incidentally, are my Hebrew name (ISO 8859-8 encoding, visual order for the technofreaks). I long for the day when all computers can handle Unicode, the up and coming character set which encompasses all the planets major languages, so that instead of being asked "What is all that hexadecimal stuff doing at the end of your signature?" I get asked "What are all those squiggles doing at the end of your signature?" Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 09:03:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-96 tyler jones superho says hello i just got off the phone with her and she gave me concert tickets to meat loaf that she won if you dont remember her ro dont know who she is you met her when she was in az she has red hair and is a big tori fan if you still dont know write me hugs anthony van pyre sorry that was off topic but had to share the ticket thing with everyoneMG<> ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 10:42:25 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-96 Winkiecon: URK! I meant, actually, Munchkin! I'm not planning to fly the family out to California. I think the Wogglebug gave me a flipped slide. So, let me try again: Munchkincon: when, where, etc.? vi: Sure, there are plenty of alternatives, not all of which might be available to you. EMACS come to mind. (How do you compose your messages now? That wouldn't have to change (possibly) if a newsgroup was formed.) Dave Hulan: > (Elsie and Elmer also had a boy calf whose name I don't recall, Elmo -- Mike "King of Trivia" Turniansky Tyler: > Interestingly enough, the Twilight Zone that you mentioned was lsited as > one of the top 100 moments in TV history by TV Guide. Too bad they did not > see fit to mention the recurring MGM movie as one of those 100. When was this list published? I'd love to see it (don't suppose you care to type in the whole thing in a private e-mail to me? :-) ) (BTW, I'm a great TZ fan: I have seen all but about a dozen of the >100 episodes (most of them the hour-long ones in the fourth season) (and no, I'm not implying that the list is exclusively of TZ "moments", just mentioning my fanness tangentially)) Gili: So, the essay is in Hebrew. Is that supposed to be a problem (other than the fact that my ISP can't support that character set)? :-) > > Mike Turniansky--Re: The books of the Bible. But the Bible is considered to > be history, not novel--or at least nonfiction. And narrative history is > always episodic. But not all of it is narrative history (although I admit that I didn't know that narrative history is always episodic). Plenty of wisdom literature, prophecy, songs, and even "strong plots" (God's hand working through history to bring the children of Israel to Sinai and give them the Torah, etc.). But there are definitely _no_ IEs. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 07:57:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-96 > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff > > Magic Users-- > > But evem if Ozma didn't catch an illegeal magic user, isn't that > Glinda's job with her Book of Records? She should also be able to nip > it in the bud, as magic is usually practiced before used. Have YOU tried reading the Book of Records? It's so crammed with information that it's difficult to find ANYTHING, and it doesn't have an index or a search engine or anything useful like that. Besides, Glinda has better things to do than spend all her time reading the Book of Records. > From: Kenneth Shepherd > Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-2 responses *please post* > > Right > now it exists on a 5 1/4" diskette in something called Scripsit for the > TRS-80. Ah, yes, I remember the TRS-80. And Scripsit. And 5 1/4" disks. Tells you how long *I'VE* been doing this computer thingy now... --Eric "One whole Digest and this is all I have to say???" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 10:08:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Oz comestibles Mike T: Four foods that are shown in The Wizard of Oz are: Aunt Em's cookies, Professor Marvel's frankfurters, the big lollipop that is presented to Dorothy by the Lollipop Guild, and the apples in the Tin Woodman's orchard. (Incidentally: does the movie *ever* refer to him as the Tin Woodman, or just as the Tinman?) I apologize to all of you who felt that my question about Professor Marvel's horse was embarrassingly easy. :-) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 11:43:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy DIgest David: I suppose that Eureka eating the piglet was really no worse than the Cowardly Lion "finding his own breakfast" in the forest. The only difference is that the piglet had "connections" with the powers that be. It was a case of "you can eat animals, but not MY animals" Gordon and David: Now that I think of it, I was introduced to VI in a programming class, and it was quite powerful. In later classes, I used it for word processing, and I didn't like it that much. This was on a VAX, though, and not UNIX. Ken: I am sure that Dave is filling you in on the recent excitement we had on the digest about our own "Project Ozma" and Pluto's moon. :-) Danny: The idea of a non-magic-use using magic tools hits a gray matter. In _Kabumpo_, Glinda chews out Peg Amy and Pompa for using magical tools, but relents and allows them to "help out". However, it is Glinda that performs the actual magic, and Ozma later takes all of Glegg's magic for herself, except the parts that Pompa was supposed to use. BTW, while Dorothy is a privileged character, I do not imagine that just ANYBODY could saunter in and look around the world. Ozma: Tyler, what are you doing in here? Tyler: Um, I'm, uh, "enhancing" the magic picture's viewing subroutines. Ozma (looks at the scene): The UCLA women's locker room? Scram! :-) Eric's curiosity: First off, a paradox here is that if you keep mentioning that you are not mentioning a newsgroup, everybody will keep thinking you're mentioning it. Anway, to answer your question, it may be a good idea for future reference, supposing that Dave becomes unable to maintain this digest. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 11:45:46 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: Oz related matters Eric: You're wonderful! You not only explain one term for me but you provide me with a new puzzle, What's "spamming"? Ken: If you think the koine Greek of the New Testiment was difficult, remember that Greek, like English, is an Indo-European language; Hebrew is an, unrelated, Semetic language. Also, some Greek letters look like their English equivalents; it aint so with Hebrew. (However, Chinese or Japanese would be even more difficult as they are non-alphabetic languages.) David Hulan: I really do recommend Laumer's CARELESS KANGEROO, it has perhaps the most complex plots of any Oz book with separate plot strands around Eureka, the Shaggy Man, Polychrome, Professor Wogglebug, the Kangeroo who had lost its mittens in EMERALD CITY, and maybe one or two more I have forgotten. All are joined together and in the process we come to learn (a) how Eureka got to Oz (b) what happened to the Barrier of Invisibility (c) why Shaggy Man and Polychrome don't know each other when they meet in TIK-TOK (d) . . . . Other Laumer books explain other Oz mysteries, puzzles and deletions such as "what is the whole story about Mombi, Cheeriobed, Orin and Tattypoo?" "Why is the blue Munchkin Country sometimes in the East and some times in the West?" Why did Button-Bright disappear in the later Oz books?" and many more. BTW I am a very strong supporter of the Ozmopolitan convention as the one to go to, but I can state unequivocally that Munchkin has the best food. I see my came out just missing (as it probably is now and not =F6. Ken: If my recollection is correct, the inspiration for PROJECT OZMA was the foreward to PATCHWORK GIRL where Baum listened on the wireless to get news out of Oz (sent by the Shaggy Man--see CARELESS KANGEROO again); similarly we were going to lister on radio-telescopes to hear if any messages were coming from outer space. NB: I don't really read my digests backwards, it just seems that way. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 13:46:55 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests, 07-02 & 03-96 7/2: Eric: I didn't see the Burgess Meredith "Twilight Zone" episode you refer to, but I read the short story (in F&SF, I think, circa 1958, probably by Fredric Brown) that I imagine it's based on. (Guy has a bunker equipped with enough food and water for the rest of his life, and all the books he's always wanted to have time to read. Nuclear war wipes out everyone else. Then he drops and breaks his only pair of glasses.) Pretty dumb - speaking as one who's also dependent on glasses (though not to read), I have several pair around the house and always travel with at least one spare pair of both regular and sunglasses. And remember that by the time you're 50, you almost certainly won't be able to read without glasses, if your distance vision remains 20/20. (OTOH, at your age I had 20/20 vision; myopia can come on later in life. I didn't start wearing glasses until I was 30.) Robin: Some people may not want us to know who they really are, for reasons they think good. Tyler: I think that any book saying that various wizards and other magic-workers left Oz when the ban went into effect must be non-FF. Not only that, but it's not IWOC or ECP, either. Mike: I don't think you can really count the Bible as episodic - even if you regard it as pure fiction (which I don't, but some do), it would have to fall into the "collection" category, not the "novel" or even "romance". I.e., more comparable to WINNIE-THE-POOH than THE WIZARD OF OZ. Ken: Esther Friesner would certainly be an excellent person to approach for an Oz story, if you're soliciting from professionals. Jane Yolen is another possibility. Wrede - well, she could probably write a good story, but I find her so irritating in person that it tempers my enjoyment of her writing. Melody: Actually, you reminded me of a discrepancy in Baum's descriptions of what happened to Nick Chopper. In his original description in WIZARD, Nick says that his girl-friend (unnamed in that book) lived with an old woman who gave the WWE two sheep and a cow to enchant Nick's axe; in TIN WOODMAN he says that Nimmie Amee was the slave of the WWE herself. Hey, Tyler, Chris, how do you reconcile those accounts? Chris D.: Somebody mentioned THE COLORFUL KITTEN OF OZ, I remember, though it might have been you. I couldn't mention it because I haven't read it, nor even had its plot described to me (as I have that of CARELESS KANGAROO). Melody is certainly a very good artist; whether she's better than Shanower, though, is at least arguable. Speaking of artists reminds me that I recently got a catalog from Emerald City Press announcing that they're putting out a new PB edition of THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW with illustrations by George O'Connor. It amused and pleased me that he was identified as "the illustrator of THE GLASS CAT OF OZ". I assume your instructions to prospective burglars were intended to amuse? If so, they succeeded admirably. :-) Dave: If you write RUMPOLE IN OZ could you send me a copy? I don't think I'm likely to be around by the latter part of next century (unless I find my own way to Oz). Steve: When you tried to send ASCII 246 it came through to me as a space, apparently. Don't know, of course, whether it was your service, Dave's, or mine that made that translation. Danny: Glinda apparently didn't catch Ugu before he stole most of the magical artifacts in Oz, even though acto the Czarover he'd been practicing magic for quite some time before that. So the Great Book of Records apparently doesn't go into enough detail - or Glinda doesn't read it thoroughly enough - to catch magic-workers before they can do any harm. Ken: I could have sworn that I had a copy of OVER THE HILLS TO FABYLON, but a search of my booklist indicates I don't. I know I've read it, and I agree with your assessment that it resembles what THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO would have been like if written by an Englishman. Gray is definitely one of my favorite writers for children. (Robin, if you find two copies?)(Or anybody else on the Digest who deals in used books?) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 11:46:06 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: Projects Ozma In a 1960 Sky and Telescope, Frank Drake wrote: "...In an effort to detect interstellar radio transmissions, [National Radio Astronomy Organization] has established Project Ozma. It is named for the queen of the imaginary land of Oz--a place very far away, difficult to reach, and populated by exotic beings. A radiometer that fulfills the specifications above is now in the final stages of construction..." He listened to Tau Ceti and Epsilon Eridani, the nearest solartype stars. Apparently, Oz wasn't in the vicinity. I got this quote from "The Quest for Extraterrestrial Life A Book of Readings" edited by Donald Goldsmith, 1980. The articles are full of references to Project Ozma, which struck just the right inspirational chord in everybody but Senator Proxmire. With every congresscritter a Proxmire these days, the space sciences need all the inspiration they can get. The cosmic congruence of Baum's communication with Oz via wireless telegraphy and the inception of SETI in Ozma's name is, to me, part of the core mythos of Oz that we can celebrate in Dave's drive to give Ozian names to features of Pluto's moon Charon. Drake and Sagan are both from Cornell, and Carl might be easier to reach. Speaking of Cornell, you might train your browsers on this URL: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/oz/web/oz.html As far as I know, it is among the first web pages with any reference to Oz apart from Project Gutenberg. Eric, I think the time is coming soon when it will be a good idea to lobby for a rec.arts.oz or rec.arts.books.oz or some other name for a newsgroup. Hold on, May the Ozzy Digest always fill our mailboxes to overflowing; the digest is wonderful for those among us with no Usenet callouses, or no news access, or no patience for internet service providers who obfuscate and geekspeak, or those of us whose computers still contain vacuum tubes and six-legged bugs. It is Oz wrapped up in a bow that we didn't have to go on an exhausting quest to obtain, and Dave, (puts on Bill Murray voice) don't go changin'. But threading would be nice. As a lurker who posts about once a month at best, here are a couple of suggestions. I think the easiest thing to do is start some threads on rec.arts.books.childrens and keep them going to the extent that we also have the support of THAT readership when it comes to a newsgroup vote. If any of the content would be of interest to the Digest, it could be reprinted so that nobody here misses anything. Among the best qualities of any Digest is the capacity to filter out the noise and nonsense, but the price is isolation, inbreeding, and lack of potential contributors who never found out about Oz. I also think those of us with some pc, mac and internet skills can provide some guidance to help folks here understand how they '...had the capacity within their computer all along...' Oz is undergoing a lot of Branding dilution on the net. There is an Oz inc. in the UK which writes software for high-end graphics programs including the one I use. That company's home page is where you end up if you click on a VRML signpost with the word Oz on it next to a colorful little cartoon house, a little virtual reality demo that has found it's way to TV on the show Next Step. If you have a fast computer and a 28.8 modem, you might be able to see it at this URL: http://www.interverse.com/~oz/RDhouse.wrl.gz It'll probably crash your browser, and the only way I've been able to get it to work is with Netscape 2.02 for Windows NT or 95, with the Cosmoplayer from: http://vrml.sgi.com/ I have also been exploring Chaco's telnet client Pueblo, which allows you to use the graphics on your computer to explore a mush (multi user shared habitat)and view at your capacity text only, pictures, sound, music, midi files, voice, or vr. Real time like irc is a capacity, not a requirement. There are no Oz themed mushes, yet. I'll make that the topic of another post. You will find nothing even vaguely Ozian on the Net apart from what we put there. The generation that built the space program was raised on Oz books; how much of Oz will there be to inspire the four-year-old child you'll need to find to show you how to use the magic machines of the millenium? Ken Cope ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 16:44:16 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Digest For Gili, I'm two weeks behind in digest readings, but wanted to respond to your query about the Land with a Grandpa plate. There are a number of printing errors such as upside down covers, missing gatherings, double gatherings, upside-down gatherings, blank pages, smudged pages (wet ink!), etc. Most of these errors devalue the book; in no case have I seen an advance in price, as with postage stamps. As to color plates, genuine substitution of wrong plates is rather rare. Where the plates have been tipped in, a skillful and unscrupulous dealer can substitute any plate on hand so the book looks "whole" upon pageing. Unless the plates seem to "stick out" or look more worn compared to the other plates in the book, most customers will just count plates without looking at their content. Of course where the plates were bound in, it is much easier to spot a substitution. In the "popular editions" of Baum Oz books that bridged the color plate and B&W editions, R&L used whatever plates they had left over, so the single colored plate frontis will vary. But even here, this will be one of the twelve plates from THAT book. I have not seen any versions with plates from other books that I was convinced were original issue by R&L. SO BEWARE. Incidentally, I am working on a cross-referenced color plate directory to aid collectors/dealers in checking for the RIGHT plates. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 00:38:56 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-96 Hiya Digest! In response to the startling discovery that Mike is another non-IWOC member on this list, may I just state that I find it difficult to grasp why any ubscriber to this list who can cough up 15 dollars is not a member of the International Wizard of Oz Club? I'm not asking for any explanations - I'm just highly recommending the club and Baum Bugle for those who've never tried it. ('never tried it' sounds like I'm talking about a drug...) Ken S. - first of all, may I suggest we distinguish between Ken S. and Ken C., who also writes something once in a while. Frank Donald Drake was mentioned here in relation to Project Ozma - I believe that's what sparked off the whole "Oz theme on Charon" campaign.(Frank Drake should deinitely be on the mailing list for the Charon petition, Dave!That is, if he still around.) But we only know it was named after our Ozma, I don't think anyone here knows more about Drake as an Oz fan. Eric - didn't know there ever was an Ozzy episode of "Superfriends". Kinda curious to see that. Has anyone here ever tried making a list of Oz references in T.V. shows? I remember Ozzy refrences in "Sisters", "Northern Exposure", "Ferris Beuller", "Picket Fences", and "Beavis and Butthead". (And "Candy Can Do It", which none of you will have heard about becasue its Israeli and not very good). Betcha between us we can come up with lots more... Bible/Oz connection - this is not something new, but I thought this would be an oppurtunity to remind everybody that there is a Bible/Oz connection. The book of Job opens: "Ish haya be'eretz Utz" - "There was a man in the land of Utz". "Utz" is also the Hebrew translation which was chosen for "Oz". It has been suggested that the biblical Utz was not a real land, but an imaginary land invented for the fable of Job. I doubt that Baum was thinking of the book of Job when he picked the name "Oz" - the only English version of the Bible I've ever looked in had "Uts" as the name of that land, not "Oz". But I'm sure whoever first translated "Oz" into Hebrew *was* thinking of the Biblical connection. Bye! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 00:46:03 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-3 responses *please post* My thanks to those who responded about Project Ozma and about the hexadecimal mystery. Dave H--Re: Eureka and the Piglet. Eureka was a stray, wasn't she? I think it's implied in DOTWIZ that Dorothy picked her up in California. If her behavior followed other stray cats I've known, I think that she was still in her "starved" stage during the DOTWIZ piglet episode--you know, the stage where the kitten has to try everything that moves in case it's edible because the memory of the "starving time" she's just gone through is so vivid. Later the memory fades, as does the desire to eat living things. My current cat wouldn't eat a tiny piglet if it oinked in her face, rolled over, and played dead. There's a reference somewhere later in the canon that suggests that Dorothy beats Eureka for being "uppity," which I always found very disturbing. I don't think Baum liked cats very much.... Thanks for the ego-boost on "Imperial Oz" and the information on Turtledove. I'll check in with my history colleague the next time I see her and see what she recommends... Eric--Re: An Oz Newsgroup. Yes, *I* think an Oz newsgroup would be a good idea. If I'm understanding it correctly, it would mean that people who are interested in certain subjects could read about those subjects and wouldn't have to read about the subjects that don't interest them. So it would solve the complaints that I've seen on the Digest. HOWEVER, now that I've said that, let me explain why I find the Digest more convenient and why I prefer it to the newsgroup format. I have to pay for my connection time to the Internet and MSN twice--once to MSN as the service provider, and once to the phone company because the "local" connection number is outside my immediate billing area. (MSN is not unique in this; all the providers I looked at--including Compuserve and Adelphi--had the same problem). With the Digest, all I have to do is connect, and the whole kit'n kaboodle is dumped right in my lap. Total connection time=less that two minutes. With a newsgroup, I'd be connected a lot longer and would be paying a lot more in fees I'd rather avoid. That's why I prefer the Digest and why I'm so grateful to Dave for providing the service. So I support the newsgroup suggestion in theory if not in practice. Also, thanks _very_ much for the info about the McGraws. I shall harrass my local library until they get MOORCHILD. --Ken ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 21:24:17 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Holiday Greetings! I wish everyone a safe, healthy and happy 4th!! (And Chris D., please leave the fridge well stocked with beer, the key to the wine cellar in plain sight, and a short leash on No! :-) :-) ) Dick (that's Arnold Palmer Loop, right?) Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 21:30:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls David >Of course, some people may want to conceal their real name, and that's legit. Surely you jest! If there is anyone concealing their name would they please write in and let us know. :) :) Robin - I spent some time trying to track down "Araminta" but struck out. I also recognized the Vance title. However, Araminta is the name of an enclave in the book. No clue as to the source of the name. Why do I keep feeling like I am paying for someone who was MAD at their English teacher? Dave - I'll try again. Is it a secret where you are located? I ask because I sent in my last post from the left coast on Tue, Jul 2, 1996, 6:30 PM and it did not appear in the Jul 3 Digest. This is not a criticism, but simply a desire to know how things work. You know how engineers are. Belatedly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 21:20:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-96 July 2 DIGEST Steve et al: I think "Sysop" means system operator. Bottom line:a sysop controls what is and isn't posted. Yes, generally a sysop may censor. Places like forums on a bulletin board use sysops for each "room" or forum (special interest area). Chris: I'll bet that if you pet No *really* hard you'll get to be friends quickly. Especially if you use a stiff bristle grooming brush. BTW, I laughed out loud at your message for potential thieves. Newsgroups: How the heck do us ignorami (plural of ignoramus) access these newsgroup things? The rec.arts.books thing sounds interesting. IWOC Book Contest: The judges will each rank the books numerically. Only the top-ranked ones will go on for further consideration. We still need to work out the details, but I think that if two of us agree that a book is wonderful and the third thinks it's at least o.k., then that book will stand a chance of going further in the winnowing out process. Steve, Barbara, and I go back for more than 20 years. We communicate well with each other. If two of us think a book is dreadful, but the third really likes it, I can't imagine our not paying very close attention to the third judge's rationale. I don't think any one of us is particularly closeminded. All three of us love Oz and are reasonably literate, rational, and anxious to be absolutely fair about judging. One thing you all need to know: WE WILL *NOT* KNOW THE IDENTITY OF THE AUTHOR OF ANY OF THE MSS WE READ. The stories will come to us with I.D. numbers, and we truly won't know who wrote what. Gili: So--could you just send us the quotes you have to incorporate? I never meant for you to have to share the whole essay with us. That'd kind of be like subjecting it to a judging by over 100 judges, and who needs that? Nut it really might be fun for us to play with the quotes the dork wants you to use. Ken: Thanks for the Araminta info. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 21:52:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-96 Ken: >>Nicholas Stuart Gray books are devilishly hard to find. I've been looking for OVER THE HILLS TO FABYLON for 3 years and no luck (Robin O, are you monitoring this?). Yup. Index to OZIANA: I don't think it's a moneymaker, but perhaps we should ask Club members on a future questionnaire whether they'd be interested in having one. IWOC prints things sometimes knowing that the publication will take quite a while to pay for itself. ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 04-Jul-96 00:41:24 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FRANK DRAKE AND PROJECT OZMA: Ken Cope wrote: >Drake and Sagan are both from Cornell... Actually, Drake is now at the University of California at Santa Cruz. In any case, I wrote on behalf of the "Campaign to Put Oz On Charon" to both him and Sagan (and others). Thanks, Ken, for the Project Ozma info! BOOK OF RECORDS: Eric: >Have YOU tried reading the Book of Records? It's so crammed with >information that it's difficult to find ANYTHING, and it doesn't have an >index or a search engine or anything useful like that. The Book of Records is obviously long overdue or a software upgrade. :) Glinda: Actually, I would have upgraded long ago, but Smith & Tinker's no longer supports the Amiga. :) THE TIN WOO--ER, *EMPEROR*: Gorden wrote: >(Incidentally: does the movie *ever* refer to him as the Tin Woodman, or >just as the Tinman?) I don't think so. Actually I always thought it made sense after _Wizard_ to just say "Tin Man", since after he becomes Emperor of the Winkies, "Tin Woodman" is a bit of a misnomer. ROYAL ICONOGRAPHERS OF OZ: David H. wrote: >Melody is certainly a very good artist; whether she's better than Shanower, >though, is at least arguable. As much as I like Shanower's work, IMHO Melody has a slight edge over him-- Her work has a quality of apropriately Ozzy whimsicalness; Shanower's rendering of various characters IMHO at times have an undesireable touch of that "Marvel Comics" look. RUMPOLE: David H. wrote: >If you write RUMPOLE IN OZ could you send me a copy? Absolutely! :) MASQUARADE IN OZ: I have sold it! The person who I sold it to I have E-mailed privately. My apologies to others who made generous offers... MESSAGES THAT ARE POSTED A DAY LATE: Bear wrote: >Dave - I'll try again. Is it a secret where you are located? I ask because I >sent in my last post from the left coast on Tue, Jul 2, 1996, 6:30 PM and it >did not appear in the Jul 3 Digest. Dave (Doing his Margaret Thatcher impression): I refer the honorable gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago...(In the 6/29 Digest under the subject heading CENSORSHIP to be exact.) :) Happy "Fourth" to everyone!!! :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 5, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 02:11:25 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Digest I also want to defend Chris and has $30 price for a set of Oz Wonderland War comics. I have been selling these for $10 each, and $25 for the set. Sure one can go out and search comic book stores and find these for $5 (commonly) or even $2 (rarely). But in most stores I find NOTHING, and if I value my time at all, then I think $10 is eminently fair. Likewise, I will pay a book scout $7 for these because he does the leg work. A scout may make a meager living at this because he looks for ALL KINDS of valuable book finds. I always brag about the time I found a Wizard of Oz first edition at a yard sale for $10. But if I factor in all the time spent at yard sales where I found zilch, it would probably have been "cheaper" to buy it from a children's book specialist. The fact is I ENJOY yard sales and visiting book stores. There is no way I can recover for my time spent if I only look for Oz items. If you are poor, and have no means to earn money in your spare time, then by all means go forth and find those 25 cents copies. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 04:13:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim VanderNoot Subject: Oz Club Survey The Special Publications Committee of the International Wizard of Oz Club has put together a member survey to review several options for publications. This will give everyone a chance to have input on the club's 1996 publications. Please visit the Oz Club web site and let us know your choices! The survey URL is http://www.ozclub.org/~iwoc/psurvey.htm ------------------------------------- Jim Vander Noot E-mail: jvandern@sam.neosoft.com Date: 7/4/96 Time: 4:13:09 AM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 06:24:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-96 > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Gili - Are you using one of those shudder "IBM-like" machines? Can't you just > select your essay, copy it, close, open mail utility, paste it in? This has NOTHING to do with what type of machine one has, but what kind of software. Macs can do the same thing. > From: swarkala@cris.com (Sharon Warkala) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-96 > > Barb DeJohn: > First editions of non-Oz Baum books are exceedingly rare with the possible > exception of those he wrote under one of his many pseudonyms. First editions of the "Aunt Jane's Nieces" books are a dime a dozen (well, not LITERALLY), but other than the AJN books I've seen very few pseudonymous firsts, and of those I've seen they have been VERY expensive. (Granted, this is among Oz dealers, who know what they've got. If a regular old book dealer has a first of, say, "Daughters of Destiny," and has no idea who wrote it, and just wants to get rid of it, you may get lucky.) > From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-96 > > So, let me try again: Munchkincon: when, where, etc.? You should be getting info on THAT real soon, the organizers of the Munchkin Convention are here on the Digest! > Tyler: > > Interestingly enough, the Twilight Zone that you mentioned was lsited as > > one of the top 100 moments in TV history by TV Guide. Too bad they did not > > see fit to mention the recurring MGM movie as one of those 100. > > When was this list published? I'd love to see it (don't suppose > you care to type in the whole thing in a private e-mail to me? :-) ) It was last week's issue of "TV Guide." Unfortunately it's been taken off the newsstand now and replaced with the new issue with Gillian Anderson on the cover (Whoa, hot momma!). And to go back a bit, Tyler, I'm sure the reasoning behind not including the movie on the list is because it wasn't made for TV. You'll note that "Gone with the Wind," whose TV debut was probably an even bigger event than any showing of "The Wizard of Oz" (to the general unwashed masses, not to us!) didn't make it, either. > From: Gordon Birrell > Subject: Oz comestibles > > Mike T: > > Four foods that are shown in The Wizard of Oz are: Aunt Em's cookies, Krullers, actually. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy DIgest > > Danny: > The idea of a non-magic-use using magic tools hits a gray matter. Do you mean gray area? Gray matter is your brain, of course... > Eric's curiosity: > First off, a paradox here is that if you keep mentioning that you are not > mentioning a newsgroup, everybody will keep thinking you're mentioning it. I'm not mentioning any -- MMMM MMMMPH! Kabumpo: I'll remove my trunk from in front of your mouth in a moment. > Anway, to answer your question, it may be a good idea for future reference, > supposing that Dave becomes unable to maintain this digest. I did mention that this thing I'm not mentioning would NOT be a replacement for the Digest, but an addition, didn't I? > From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu > Subject: Oz related matters > > Eric: > You're wonderful! You not only explain one term for me but you provide me > with a new puzzle, What's "spamming"? Spamming can have two definitions: 1. The continued, repeated posting of a note or message to the point where people are sick of seeing it, and want to have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with you. 2. The posting of ANY unsolicited advertisement in a newsgroup, especially if it's off-topic (posting an ad on how to get your green card in a group about "Seinfeld," for example). The latter is STRONGLY discouraged, and nobody has any problem with reporting the advertiser to their sysop. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digests, 07-02 & 03-96 > > And remember that by the time you're 50, you almost certainly won't be able > to read without glasses, if your distance vision remains 20/20. (OTOH, at > your age I had 20/20 vision; myopia can come on later in life. I didn't start > wearing glasses until I was 30.) At my age? I'm thirty now. Say, why is everything starting to get so fuzzy? > Mike: > I don't think you can really count the Bible as episodic - even if you regard > it as pure fiction (which I don't, but some do), it would have to fall into > the "collection" category, not the "novel" or even "romance". I.e., more > comparable to WINNIE-THE-POOH than THE WIZARD OF OZ. I know I'm going to make some people angry (or at least mildly ticked off) with this, but I'm sorry, the juxtaposition of the Bible and "Winnie the Pooh" brought up this image that I MUST share with you all. I'm sorry, I can't resist: And the Lord sayeth unto Moses, "Take these ten commandments to thine people, and know thee that they come from me, and must be obeyed." To which Moses replied, "Oh, bother." Please, no flaming, I'm doing it to myself now. We now return you to a post with some good taste. Ken C., what you've written (and what I've now snipped for brevity's sake) is EXACTLY what I've been trying to say all along about an Oz newsgroup, but you've said it so much better than I ever could! It is possible, and possibly desireable, to have more than one outlet for Oz on the 'net. I just hope others will see this sometime, and that someone will want to spearhead the drive to form a newsgroup. This Digest alone proves that the potential readership for a newsgroup is there, and I think it could be done if people only knew what I was talking about! > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-96 > > In response to the startling discovery that Mike is another non-IWOC > member on this list, may I just state that I find it difficult to grasp > why any ubscriber to this list who can cough up 15 dollars is not a > member of the International Wizard of Oz Club? I'm not asking for any > explanations - I'm just highly recommending the club and Baum Bugle for > those who've never tried it. ('never tried it' sounds like I'm talking > about a drug...) Some people just aren't joiners. And the high number of first-time members who don't rejoin every year indicates to me that, despite their best efforts, the Club just isn't meeting every Oz fan's needs or wants. But I agree, the Club overall is excellent, and the "Bugle" is essential reading for Oz fans everywhere. > Eric - didn't know there ever was an Ozzy episode of "Superfriends". > Kinda curious to see that. Has anyone here ever tried making a list of Oz > references in T.V. shows? I remember Ozzy refrences in "Sisters", > "Northern Exposure", "Ferris Beuller", "Picket Fences", and "Beavis and > Butthead". (And "Candy Can Do It", which none of you will have heard > about becasue its Israeli and not very good). Betcha between us we can > come up with lots more... Er, there are so many Oz references in movies, TV shows, etc., that I doubt even the entire internet could hold them all. (Other examples I can think of off the top of my head: "Night Court," the "Oz" episode of "Fame," "Newhart," "Perfect Strangers" (starring Oz fan and former IWOC member Bronson Pinchot), "Cybill," "Saturday Night Live," "Donny and Marie," "Sesame Street," "The Electric Company"...) > From: Kenneth Shepherd > Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-3 responses *please post* > > Dave H--Re: Eureka and the Piglet. Eureka was a stray, wasn't she? I think > it's implied in DOTWIZ that Dorothy picked her up in California. Or possibly Australia. (If I ever produce an animated version of "Dorothy and the Wizard" [yeah, right!], I want to give Eureka an Australian accent.) > HOWEVER, now that I've said that, let me explain why I find the Digest more > convenient and why I prefer it to the newsgroup format. Good argument. But there is no requirement that you'd have to read the newsgroup (or get the Digest, for that matter, but I know we're all going to want to keep the latter). > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-96 > > Newsgroups: How the heck do us ignorami (plural of ignoramus) access > these newsgroup things? The rec.arts.books thing sounds interesting. You would LOVE rec.arts.books.childrens, Robin. Unfortunately, like IRC I can't tell you how to get to usenet, or even if your system has it available. You'll have to ask your sysop or other support personnel about how to access it and, more importantly, how to weed out all the groups you DON'T want, which will be most of them. (I know there are people here with greater knowledge of the inner workings of the 'net than me, does anybody want to help Robin out?) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > As much as I like Shanower's work, IMHO Melody has a slight edge over him-- > Her work has a quality of apropriately Ozzy whimsicalness; Shanower's > rendering of various characters IMHO at times have an undesireable touch of > that "Marvel Comics" look. Despite Eric having done more work for DC than Marvel, I think... --Eric "Someone once asked ME to sign 'The Enchanted Apples of Oz'" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 10:00:40 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-96 Bear: I don't think the difference between used books on the two coasts is quite as pronounced as you say, but there's some truth to it. Older used books (pre-WW II) are also typically a good bit harder to find on the left coast, because there weren't nearly as many people there in those days, and people who moved there typically left a lot of books behind, since books are relatively expensive to move. (I know; I just moved the other direction and culled about a quarter of our books first.) Aaron: Prawns are shrimp of a certain size. Presumably you wouldn't eat them. Ozga appears in GLASS CAT but doesn't play a very active role. I think I gave her a couple of lines of dialog, and she shows up in one illustration. Tyler: Actually, Glinda's chiding Pompa & co. for using magic has to be taken as another example of Ozian Imperialism - they were in Ev at the time, so they weren't doing anything "unlawful" (or at least, not within Glinda's jurisdiction). Gili: I did notice that whoever translated the Hebrew version of WIZARD you sent me translated "Oz" as "Utz", which sounded familiar but that I didn't place until you reminded me that it was Job's homeland. Ken S.: Dorothy found Eureka, though it's not specified where. Since she'd only been in California a week at the beginning of DOTWIZ, I think it more likely that she found her in Australia. And Baum does specify that we don't know how Eureka was brought up. In GLINDA Dorothy refers to "whipping" her pink kitten when she gets uppity; I'm not sure this equates to "beating", but maybe. Even if it doesn't, it doesn't seem to reflect very well on Dorothy - or Ozma, who was listening to Dorothy say it and didn't call her on it. Bear: It's no secret where Dave is located - he's in Huntington Beach, CA. But some days he's busy and doesn't have time to incorporate every post before sending out the Digest. Robin: Tsk, and you an English teacher! "Ignoramus" is from a Latin first-person-plural verb, not a noun, so it doesn't take a Latin second-declension plural ending. (Is the plural of "dum-dum" "dum-da"?) :-) :-) :-) An index to OZIANA shouldn't be very expensive to publish, if it only included titles, authors, and illustrators. Most OZIANAs I've seen have only had 3-4 stories each, which should mean there'd only be 300-500 entries total. You could almost get that on a single sheet if you used small type; even with a 12-point font I'd expect you could get it on four letter-size sheets without any trouble. And for something like that, xerox copying should be plenty good enough. It could almost be handled on an ad hoc basis - print 25 copies or so to sell at maybe a buck each, and when they sell out whoever's handling it goes to a copy place and gets another 25 printed, etc. No need for a big initial investment. Heck, I volunteer to handle that end of it (including setting it up for printing) if someone else will generate the data; I don't have that many issues of OZIANA, so I can't do that part of it myself. Dave: I just said it was arguable as to whether Melody or Shanower was the best living Oz illustrator; I don't think there's enough difference in the quality of their art for there to be a clear and unequivocal choice between them. It's not like saying Neill is the best of the FF artists - that, I think, isn't arguable. Denslow has a certain bizarre charm, and Dick Martin was also an enjoyable illustrator (the less said about Kramer and Dirk, the better), but neither was in Neill's class. And a happy Independence Day to all (though I suppose it's less meaningful to Gili, or any other non-US citizens who may be reading the Digest if such exist - I do see one "uk" address, though I've no idea whose it is)! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 10:28:43 -0400 (EDT) From: swarkala@cris.com (Sharon Warkala) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-96 Bear: The idea of an Oz book price guide is very interesting but could be a double edged sword for those of us who collect the books. I have gotten great deals that I am sure I never would have gotten if the price guide was available but I would also would find it useful for haggling purposes for those who price Oz books into the stratosphere when I try to deal with them. I now generally put my own price tag on the books and try to negotiate to that price. My question would be who would write the price guide? Also I have never been to the left coast to look for used Oz books but the books out here on the east coast I find I prefer to call "well loved" rather than used. You can however find them in pretty good shape even here in New Jersey. Chris Warkala ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 18:07:59 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-96 Bear - no, I'm using a Mac, and I can't do that thing that you suggested. My German? Ich nicht Deutsche sprache. Wonder what gave you that impression... Aaron - I *wasn't* there the year they served prawn. I didn't eat them. But I know you wouldn't because they're not kosher. :-) SJT - Kang-A-roo. Herm - my "Land of Oz" is a "popular edition" that my grandmother bought for my mother and aunt a-way back in 1950-53. It is the only Oz Book I inherited from my mother. I don't think back then there were enough collectors to make it worthwhile to tip in a false plate - but I'll definitely take another look at it when I'm back in Jerusalem. Ken S. - Eureka was a stray - that why she was named Eureka, found. Interstingly enough, in the original book version of "101 Dalmations" (by Dodie Smith?) there's a stray liver-spotted dalmation named Perdita - lost - for precisely the same reason. BTW - that message Chris D. left for his burglars may have been amusing to you, but let me tell you something - it pays to be nice to your burglars. Our third floor apartment in Jerusalem has been broken into five (count 'em) times in the past twenty years. Four out of the five times, the burglars left such a horrible mess, turning over drawers and opening every single closet in the house, that it was much more aggravating than the loss of the few items they took. Only once was the apartment left in such spic and span condition, that it took us five or six hours to realize we had been burglarized. The explanation is simple: my mother had coincidentally made a cash withdrawal, and left something like three hundred dollars worth of cash in the first drawer the burglar opened. It was worth every penny of those $300 not to have to clean up the mess they usually leave. We've contemplated putting up a sign, to let the next burlgar know exactly where to get what he/she (probably he) is after. Umm, happy fourth of July, all you Americans! Gili ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 14:26:01 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-4- responses *please post* Since it's been brought to my attention that there's another Ken on the Digest, I'll start signing my contributions with my initials. Steve T--Re: Languages. The hardest thing about the koine Greek was the fact that I was trying to teach it to myself using my mother's old Classical Greek text (from the 1930s). After about 2 days of effort I found that this wasn't a good idea. With Hebrew, on the other hand, I've got a tutor. Right now he's making me learn letters. David H--Esther Friesner is indeed a wonderful person. Did you know that she studied drama at Yale at the same time as Meryl Streep? And I'm sorry that you don't care for Pat Wrede; I found her lots of fun to talk to on the phone. Maybe if you were to get her on the subject of Gilbert & Sullivan... And (just to clarify) I am not soliciting anything from professionals. I have enough trouble keeping up with what I'm supposed to be writing myself. Re: Nicholas Stuart Gray. I said "Englishman," but I think he was actually born in the Scottish highlands. So far I've found THE SEVENTH SWAN (reprinted in the 1980s by Ace? under the MagicQuest label), GRIMBOLD'S OTHER WORLD, and a collection of short stories. He actually wrote quite a bit more than that, thought, and I wonder if it's all of such high quality. I recommend the above to Oz fans.... Ken Cope--Re: Project Ozma. Thanks for the information. I'll see if I can pull that Sky & Telescope through ILL. Hope everyone had a safe and enjoyable Fourth holiday... --KRS ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 14:17:59 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-96 Eric: > > Have YOU tried reading the Book of Records? It's so crammed with > information that it's difficult to find ANYTHING, and it doesn't have an > index or a search engine or anything useful like that. Besides, Glinda > has better things to do than spend all her time reading the Book of > Records. But it is now available via WWW: http://glinda.quad.oz.baum/~glinda/records Be warned: It's a 953 Terabyte file..... > > Ah, yes, I remember the TRS-80. And Scripsit. And 5 1/4" disks. Tells > you how long *I'VE* been doing this computer thingy now... *sigh* You youngsters! Why back in my day we had 4K microcomputers with paper tape, and ASR-33's, and we /liked/ them! Gordon: Your answer to the food question was 100% (although the "cookies" you glibly refer to were actually crullers) Tyler: ROTFL on the "UCLA locker room" view. Steve Teller: "Spamming" refers to the use of "spam" large amounts of information, generally useless. More specifically, filling up mailboxes with same. In MU* settings, refers to being drowned in a sea of conversation. > remember that Greek, like English, is an Indo-European language; Hebrew > is an, unrelated, Semetic [sic] language. Yeah, but it makes a lot more sense than English in many ways. Dave Hulan: > I didn't see the Burgess Meredith "Twilight Zone" episode you refer to, > but I read the short story (in F&SF, I think, circa 1958, probably by > Fredric Brown) that I imagine it's based on. Then it sounds like the F&SF author cribbed it. According to _Twilight Zone: The Original Stories_, it was based (quite closely) to a 1952 story by Lynn A. Venable with the same name ("Time Enough At Last") (copyright held by Quinn Publishing) > Mike: > I don't think you can really count the Bible as episodic - even if you regard > it as pure fiction (which I don't, but some do), it would have to fall into > the "collection" category, not the "novel" or even "romance". Well, first, without wanting to start a religious war, rest assured that I don't believe the Bible to be fiction, either (do yourself a favor, don't ask me to define "Bible", however :-) ). And yes, viewed as a whole, it would be a collection, but I was referring to individual books (that's why they are called "books", ne c'est pas?), or groups that are tied together (the hexateuch, for example), not the whole. Gili: > In response to the startling discovery that Mike is another non-IWOC > member on this list, may I just state that I find it difficult to grasp > why any ubscriber to this list who can cough up 15 dollars is not a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > member of the International Wizard of Oz Club? There ya go, then! Actually, although I have considered joining for 20 years, I never felt there was anything "worthwhile" I could get out of the club (no flames, folx! Just my opinion.) that would justify $15/annum (other than being able to rub elbows with my rave fave, Martin Gardner). It did finally take my son's interest in Oz to cough up the dough for the Royal Club. Maybe IWOC later. > Bible/Oz connection - this is not something new, but I thought this would > be an oppurtunity to remind everybody that there is a Bible/Oz > connection. The book of Job opens: "Ish haya be'eretz Utz" - "There was a > man in the land of Utz". [...] > the only English version of the Bible I've ever looked in had "Uts" as > > the name of that land, not "Oz". JPS has "Uz". BUT, this is marvelous! Never thought about it before, but gosh, the entire WIZ can be found encapsulated in Job 37:24-38:1 (JPS translation:) "Men do therefore FEAR Him, He regardeth not any that are WISE of HEART. Then the Lord answered Job out of the WHIRLWIND and said:" References to the three companions, and the twister. Figure the God=the wizard and Job=Dorothy, and you got the whole shebang. Thank you for that, Gili. ("Turn it around, turn it around, for all is in it" - Ben Bag-Bag, Pirkei Avot) Ken S.: > Eureka was a stray, wasn't she? Yes. As Dorothy relates, she was taught that "Eureka" means "I have found it" and since she found the kitten.... Wow! Exceedingly long, and for a change (for me) rather Ozzy at that. Have fund digesting, and to 120 or so of you (Gili excluded), have a happy Independence Day! --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 16:54:55 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: digest My latest communication with the press informs me that *sigh* The Tin Castle of Oz will be out the week after Winkie (the only Con I will be attending, alas). Anyone wanting to buy one at the Con will have to wait for next year (It's well worth the wait, but I would prefer that you order it now, as I need the $ to put toward the next book). I have since sent Pegasus in Oz out, but that one will take even longer (I doubt that the plates have even reached my printer yet. It is such a PAIN to have to work with a printer who is many states away!). I am gratified to learn that so many of you appreciated my humor. I had thought that I had lost it entirely, and was going to be reduced to writing nothing but tragedies from now on. By the way, the dog has the key to the liquor cabinet on a chain around her neck. All of the copies of Lurline that have been paid for are sent out, and I would appreciate y'all letting me know that they arrived in one piece (this can be private e-mail, of course). For those who said you'd want one, but have yet to pay for it, send me $10.00 at 1606 Arnold Palmer Loop, Belen, NM 87002. A special thanks to those of you who also included $ for more books! This is great! I might even be able to publish A Queer Quest for Oz before Halloween! (I have been asked, so will clarify: this is not a follow-up to the discussion on gay marriage. I do not know the origin of the word Queer being used that way, but I consider it derogatory and will not use it in that context). If this keeps up, I still hope to see Beach Blanket BabylOz out in time for X-Mas. Oh- and of course Thorns and Private Files will still be out asap. No, Thorns is not a surname. It is more of a description that makes sense in context with the story. But Ozga's name is still just Ozga. As for Eureka's origin, she came from Australia, actually. I think that the statement concerning her "starved" state makes good sense, though. I have never been a cat, personally, but I can see where I might feel inclined to eat almost anything if I were hungry enough. But, gee, would that include something that walked and talked? The idea sickens me some. But this is a cat, so one has to make allowances for that. I never meant my offhand comment to generate so much controversy. I only meant that her behavior in court seemed to imply her guilt. Had she been pronounced guilty, I think it would have been her own fault. And no, I don't think Baum liked cats much, either. I personally think they are very sweet, but Rinny and I are allergic to them. Sort of a Catch-22. We want to hug and cuddle them, and shouldn't (but I usually do anyway, with cat-astrophic results...). Who was it that recommended Meet The Feebles? I think it was Randy Hoffman who first mentioned it to me years ago, or was it Greg Gick? Anyway, it was mentioned on the Digest and we just saw it. It does have the Oz reference, and it is a very clear Oz reference, indeed. I will also say that the puppets are adorable and deserved to be in a less abhorable movie. Don't get me wrong, it has a real storyline and all, but I found most of it sickening. Do NOT show it to your kids, even though it looks Muppety and has an Oz reference in it. I wonder, though, whether it would seem any better after eating one of Eric Shanower's Shroom-people? I agree with the statement that the Club and the Bugle should be subscribed to. I will probably renew my own subscription eventually (like, after I have paid off my utilities). I am told that the price is going up to $25.00 a year, and I was having a bad time coughing up $10.00 a year. But if you can afford it, it is good to have. If you are a poor person like me, be grateful that we have the digest for free! (Suggestion: Nickolodeon Magazine, Disney Adventures, etc. are free online. Why not the Bugle?) Off subject, but related: Speaking of Online free stuff, BEWARE of the Toy Network. It is Highly Addictive! It offers free dowloads of all sorts of digital toys, and an ongoing scavenger hunt for Toybucks that can be traded for free virtual and real-world toys! It is lots of fun, and dangerously addictive. I think a write-in campaign suggesting Oz toys would be a great idea! The Cartoon Network homesite is now being upgraded by Rinny's brother, Chris Xiques. It should be entirely refurbished by October. CX is NOT responsible for the TV channel, ONLY the homepage. But e-mail sent to him will be given attention by the channel. Let's start a loud and boisterous campaign to get them to air all of the Rankin/Bass and other Ozzy cartoons on the Cartoon Network! I can think of only a few, none of which are very remarkable, but Oz needs all the exposure it can get! Lemme see, Rankin/Bass, Dic, Filmation's Journey Back to Oz, several Japanese Animes, Willard Carroll's Oz Kids, The Romeo Muller Thanksgiving cartoon, etc., etc... I do not get HBO, but they had the Cinar series for awhile (maybe still do, but if not...). I see that I have just missed The Dreamer of Oz on Lifetime (the feminist channel ran that? Why?). It was not true to facts, but if you haven't seen it, check Lifetime's schedule to see if they're running it again. John Ritter is a master of visual comedy, but this film also shows that he is a fine dramatic actor as well. Gee, and before I started writing this letter, Rinny and I were commenting on how we could think of nothing to say... ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 18:16:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Well, Chris DID want a new topic... Some time ago I wrote a review of the historically quasi-accurate "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" (with a few comments on the rest of _The Enchanter Reborn_ as well). I have finally managed to read the preceding book, _The Complete Compleat Enchanter_ (= _The Incompleat Enchanter_ += _The Enchanter Completed_), and I must say that it does much to elucidate= and obscurate "Sir Harold and the Gnome King". The world view, that reality only consists of our perceptions and that the laws of the universe are dependent on our conceptions of them, sounds like something out of a philosophy text, and the method of transfer between universes, reciting the basic assumptions of the destination universe, while logical, is just plain freaky. Also presented is the idea that writers of fiction may "tap into" other universes out there with different sets of basic assumptions, which applied to Oz would indicate that there is not one, but many versions of Oz out there. (Think of the basic differences between, say, Baumian and Neillian Oz.) Now I find myself wondering if anyone has worked out the basic assumptions of Oz (any version) and our own world... Also: It has been asked what has happened to Barry. Don't worry, people, he's alive and well, thank G-d. He managed to get a psychology internship at a hospital in Philadelphia. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have Internet access there yet. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 19:20:52 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-96 Aaron: "Prawn" is British English for "shrimp". Mike T.: Sorry, my fault. I *assumed* everyone had seen the flyer in the Bugle. Munchkin Convention: August 2-4, Wilmington, Delaware, The Radisson Hotel on Route 202. Registrations to: Chris Sterling, 637 Ridgewood Rd., Maplewood, NJ 07040, or call 201-762-5770. Need further info? Ask me or call Chris. Also, there's a copy of the registration form (I think) at the IWOC site. The "100 Most Memorable Moments in TV History" issue of TV Guide is the one covering this week. Unfortunately for you, you won't be able to find it anymore since next week's is already on sale. Beg a copy from a friend or relation. And the Sci-Fi Channel occasionally runs the one-hour "Twilight Zone" episodes. Steve T.: Ah, spam. "Spam" is a term used for a message, usually of a commercial or money-making nature, posted to many newsgroups at once, regardless of appropriateness. The term comes from the Monty Python routine that winds up with Vikings singing "Spam, spam, spam, spam. Spam, spam, spam, spam." It is also, of course, used as a verb ("to spam" = "to send such a message"). Ken S.: We are in the same boat as regards the phone number of our Internet provider, but we have a deal with the phone company (Bell Atlantic, in our case) that allows us to make unlimited calls to a specific exchange for a small monthly fee. It literally cut our phone bill in half. See if your local utility will do the same. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 20:03:14 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-96 A couple of brief notes-- I seem to remember an "Elsie the Cow" board game in which the male calf was named "Beauregard". I don't think movie showings count as "TV events", by definition. 5 1/4" diskettes don't make you old, even in PC's. You have to have used 8" diskettes for that. As for me, I remember mainframes that were limited to 16K RAM and a total of 5 2M disks by design (both of those measured in 6-bit characters).... "Ignoramus" doesn't have a plural "ignorami", because it isn't a Latin noun. It's Latin for "We don't know." It became a noun only in modern English (it had to do with an event in England a few centuries ago when a heavily partisan jury returned "ignoramus" as their verdict), so the only justifiable plural is "ignoramuses". // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 20:53:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Could someone share more about "Nicholas Stuart Gray?" Also, an author named Egar or Eager? Robin, David? Dave - Yes, I know your policy, it was a response to me, the solely censored. I would still like to know where you are in the USA. It would help me understand your time windows. Unless it really is a secret. :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 6, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 04:12:07 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For the Digest Re: the Ozmopolitan Convention I an attendee of most of the IWOC Conventions in the past 15 years, I want to post a dissenting opinion on the Louisville gathering. On the plus side, the food was very good. The publicity was tremendous, and I'm sure a lot of people were exposed to Oz for the first time. But I don't think the Ozmopolitan should be primarily to publicize Oz to non-members. It was entirely too commercial. The vendors opened on Friday rather than Saturday afternoon, as scheduled, and were competing with the main convention attractions. For example, in past conventions, outside sales were never allowed before the IWOC auction is over. With the exception of IWOC materials (which were conspicuously absent), I think sales should primarily be for the benefit of IWOC members, not the vendors or the public. Also, I don't come to the conventions to sight see, and I would have preferred some formal Oz presentations rather than the Riverboat cruise. This in spite of the fact that the cruise made money for the convention (but again from tourist sales). I sure was tired of the O'Hare Holiday Inn, but the Galt House was even less "Ozzy" than the GH. I fondly recall the old days at the Castle and in Zion park, and hope that a more rural venue will be found in the future. All this is not to impugn the efforts of the Louisville organizing committee, which worked very hard to mount this convention. The problems referred to above probably stemmed mostly from a lack of continuity with past Ozmopolitan organizers, and the sad illness of our Executive Secretary, Fred Meyer. Re Oz book prices: There seems to be much confusion on the going rates for older Oz books. The following generalizations, based on the average prices paid at recent (1993-1995) IWOC auctions, may be helpful: Good (no major flaws) B&W reprints of Baum Oz books with pictorial paste-on cover labels generally fetch $25 to $35. The Thompson and later titles go for $35 to $45. The reason for this is that the print runs were smaller than for the original Baum 14. Also the people who bought these are mostly still alive, so lots of these later books have not been "recycled." Its all a matter of supply and demand. Color plate reprints are about double these prices. Of course the last several Thompsons that had color plates are mostly found as first editions. And ALL color plate copies of the last plate book, Wishing Horse, are firsts. Nice first editions of the post-Baum Oz books are in the $150 to $200 range, even the later B&W ones. The Baum firsts are much higher for the earlier books. Wizards are in four figures and the price is very condition sensitive. For Land through P.G., $300 to $500 is the range, with the handsome Emerald City being in somewhat higher demand. Note also that the first state of Land is VERY RARE, and goes much higher. For Tik-Toc through Glinda, the firsts become more plentiful, and the prices come down gradually to the Thompson range. A dust jacket generally adds 50% to the price of a book. However jackets for the first edition Baums are VERY RARE, so that's a seller's market. Note that truly mint books can command much higher prices, and are worth the money (if you have it!). Unfortunately, many non-specialist dealers see these high end prices in the price guides and try to charge that for ordinary (sometimes not even good) copies. And a very few dealers may still underprice Oz books, or sell you a first Captain Salt for a reprint price. ("Everyone knows that all first edition Oz books had color plates," I am often told!). Remember that just as it is not unethical (greedy maybe) to charge too much, its also not unethical to pay too little if thats the marked price. But if a private party asks you "What is this ($50) book worth?", and you say "$1", that's not fair. Rather say: "I can pay $20", or some other reasonable fraction of retail price. As books become more worn and/or damaged, the price should go down very fast. For example, many reputable dealers will drop the price up to 50% if just one plate is missing. Cracked inner hinges (repairable) may not be too bad, but books that are crayoned, torn, or very loose are almost worthless. If you can't get a recent (new) reprint from IWOC or BOW, you should be able to find a reading copy (text all there, but little else to recommend it) for very little. But many quality dealers won't even stock such books. One CAN find Oz books in the above price ranges at many dealers or at the smaller book fairs (where booth fees are low). Also try library sales, if you can get near the head of the line and if the librarian assures you that dealers haven't picked over the stock before the public opening. And, of course, you can still luck onto Oz books at yard sales for a couple of bucks if you get there early. Finally, be aware that many generalist dealers don't know a first from a white plastic reprint (they go by the copyright date!). They are not unscrupulous, just ignorant. Protect yourself by learning the points, or carry a Bibliographica Oziana with you. GOOD HUNTING ! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 16:36:22 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-05-96 "Oz Kids" has started showing on the Israeli Children's Cable station. I just discovered to my annoyance that I missed the first episode, despite the fact that I was watching out for it and checked T.V. guides published by two different newspapers. well, I'll start recording this week. I guess I'll write Willard about it too. Mike: in my opinion at least, the Baum Bugle alone is worth every cent of the membership dues. *My* membership dues barely pay back the postage to Israel... I'll go check that particular pasuk from Job right now. Bye! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 08:53:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-05-96 > From: Jim VanderNoot > Subject: Oz Club Survey > > The Special Publications Committee of the International > Wizard of Oz Club has put together a member survey to > review several options for publications. This will give > everyone a chance to have input on the club's 1996 > publications. Please visit the Oz Club web site and let > us know your choices! But what about those Club members who DON'T have access to the Web (or just don't know how to get there)? > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-96 > > Bear: > It's no secret where Dave is located - he's in Huntington Beach, CA. But some > days he's busy and doesn't have time to incorporate every post before sending > out the Digest. Or he'll even send them out the night before. Rest assured, once Dave gets a post, even if it's delayed in the mail (as mine have been once or twice), he'll put it in the Digest ASAP. > From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-96 > > > Ah, yes, I remember the TRS-80. And Scripsit. And 5 1/4" disks. Tells > > you how long *I'VE* been doing this computer thingy now... > > *sigh* You youngsters! Why back in my day we had 4K > microcomputers with paper tape, and ASR-33's, and we /liked/ them! Actually, I worked with one of those for a time, too, but even then it was ancient technology, being at least a year old... (Er, having re-read that, I should clarify that I meant a computer with paper tape. An early Wang, in fact.) > Steve Teller: > "Spamming" refers to the use of "spam" large amounts of > information, generally useless. More specifically, filling up mailboxes > with same. In MU* settings, refers to being drowned in a sea of > conversation. Actually, if people fill your mailbox with useless posts, that's a letter bomb. Usually done in retaliation for a spamming... Chris D., what's the URL for the Cartoon Network's homepage? > From: rri0189@ibm.net > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-96 > > 5 1/4" diskettes don't make you old, even in PC's. You have to have used > 8" diskettes for that. Oh, gads, I remember those as well. Never actually used them, but I do remember them being around. > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Could someone share more about "Nicholas Stuart Gray?" Also, an author named > Egar or Eager? Robin, David? Gray I can't help you with, but do look for Edward Eager's books. All are currently available in nice inexpensive but fully illustrated editions from Odyssey Classic, a division of Harcourt Brace Jovanovich. DEFINITELY start with "Half Magic," his first book and the one all the others spring from. (With the exception of "Magic by the Lake," the sequel to "Half Magic," they don't exactly form a series, but there is something linking all the other books to "Half Magic.") The other books he's written are "Magic by the Lake," "Knight's Castle," "Magic or Not?" "The Time Garden," "Seven-Day Magic," and "The Well-Wishers." Eager owes more to E. Nesbit than to Baum, but they are fun anyway, and he does acknowledge Oz as well... --Eric "Did Baum and Nesbit ever meet? Doubt it..." Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 11:29:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-05-96 Sheesh! "Ignoramus" sure *looks* like a masc. sing. noun. O.K. Two of you and the O.E.D. show that I'm wrong. Sorry 'bout that. The preferred plural is "ignoramuses," which sounds like fireloving demigoddesses to me, but at least I know the correct form now. Bear: E.Eager is a children's fantasy writer, still published and worth hunting. I think he's still alive, but I don't know. His work is lovely and fun. Eric: No club meets the expectations/hopes of all its first-time members. IWOC has a significant dropout rate mostly because it's the best known Oz Club and people join it with expectations of more on the MGM film. I know this isn't the only reason, but it's primary. Oz Price Guide: No. NO. *NO*! If you want me to elaborate, I will. For now, let's just say that publishing such a thing would be like shooting yourself in the foot...or in the wallet. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 12:45:27 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: OZ Gordon: You err in Aunt Em's food production. Crullers are *not* cookies, the are more like doughnuts. [I see others commented on this, that's what I get for not reading my e-mail on the July 4.] Gili: I had not realized where Perdita in 101 DALMATIONS got her name. I always assumed she was named after the heroine of Shakespeare's WINTER'S TALE (who *was* given that name because she was lost.) Mike T.: There are many reasons for joining IWOC but rubbing elbows with Martin Gardner is not one of them. I have been attending Oz conventions for over 30 years and have never met him. (I believe he attended at least one Munchkin Convention. He was one of the 16 original members of IWOC and he does occasionally write something that appears in the BUGLE, but his myriad other interests forstall his going to conventions. Ozbucket: I assure you that NICKELODEON and DISNEY have far more subscribers that the BUGLE and they have something to gain from being available on-line. IWOC has no advertisers and the BUGLE is the prime membership benefit. If we put it on the web for free would not many who pay for membership stop paying? Wouldn't it be nice if I had spellcheck on my outgoing e-mail! (blushes) Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 19:52:39 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-5 comments *please post* Gili--Re: Perdita. I think that the Dalmation in question retains that name in the 1961 Disney film. Incidentally, did you know that there are live-action remakes in the works of both PINOCCHIO (starring Jonathan Taylor Thomas) and 101 DALMATIONS (with Glenn Close as Cruella de Ville)? And I don't think either of them is being released by Disney.... OzBucket--Re: Toy & Cartoon Network online sites. Do you have addresses for these? Aaron Adelman--Re: Harold Shea. If you liked the Fletcher Pratt/L. Sprague de Camp collaborations, there are two relatively new collections of stories by de Camp, Christopher Stasheff, and others: THE ENCHANTER REBORN and THE EXOTIC ENCHANTER. In one of them Shea and Belphoebe travel to Burroughs's Barsoom. Sprague de Camp is a fascinating speaker and his wife is one of the sweetest ladies I've ever talked to. John Kennedy--Re: Internet connections. Thanks for the advice--I'll see what I can work out with the current service (it seems to switch from week to week). Bear--Re: Nicholas Stuart Gray, others. Let me know if what was on yesterday's post wasn't enough. I have a little information at hand. Best bet for information on 20th-century authors, however, is the encyclopedic CONTEMPORARY AUTHORS, available at local libraries in bound or CD-ROM versions. Over 100,000 authors are covered. All--Re: Eureka's Australian origins. I dunno--on rereading the passage in DOTWIZ I find myself agreeing with David H. that Eureka's not necessarily from Down Under. I mean, if Dot picked up a kitten in Australia, she'd have to get it through Australian customs, carry it on board ship for more than a week (more likely 2 to 3, although I don't know what standard shipping time would be between, say, Sidney and San Diego), and then get it through US customs. Somehow I can't see a Kansas dirt farmer being willing to pay for all that extra expense--unless Eureka was smuggled in (_A Contraband Kitten in Oz_? Nah) Still less can I deal with the picture of carrying a kitten (even a small one) for days on end inside a wire birdcage. I think it's more likely that Dorothy found Eureka while visiting those friends of hers in California. If that was the case, it's likely that Uncle Henry doesn't know about Eureka at the beginning of DOTWIZ, and so hasn't voiced any objections. (Dorothy did get the name Eureka from Uncle Henry, but she may have applied it to the kitten on her own. I suggest that Uncle Henry's Australian relatives went Down Under to participate in the Great Australian Gold Rush, and the phrase "Eureka" came up in that context). Since Eureka arrives in Kansas with Dot via Magic Belt, Uncle Henry and Aunt Em are confronted with a fait accompli. And so Dorothy acquires a kitten.... --KRS ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 21:53:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Eric - You would have to guess Dorothy picked up Eureka in California. If I remember correctly, "Eureka" is the state motto. As in GOLD, I FOUND IT! David - If I'd known you were having a "book culling" I would have flown down to make some offers. Unless it was mostly mysteries. Probably just old firsts of Oz books. :) Chris Warkala - Its come to this. I can finally sympathize with Eric! In no way was I suggesting there ever be an "Oz Price Guide." Not me! No way! As far as I am concerned, let Oz be one last place where people don't have to have a guide to tell them the artificial price of everything. Just take a look at the "Overpriced Street Guide" some day to see what happens to a hobby when a guide takes over. I'm glad to hear you can find "well-loved" books in your area. Most of my expeditions turned up ones that had been ........ well, words fail me. However, I never tried New Jersey. Gili, my fellow MAC'er (or is that fellowette), do you have word processing software on your MAC that allows you to cut and paste? It is beyond my comprehension that you cannot paste some text into your mail utility. You type words into it. About German. Many of the Jews that I know can get along in Yiddish which I believe is derived from German. You are so well educated I made an assumption. I took German and scientific German in college, back when they had a language requirement. Imagine! I can read some but would never try to write or speak it in public. Michael T - Did you perhaps use the IBM 1620 with paper tape input/output? We used Bell Interpretive Language on it. Before Fortran! Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 22:46:14 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-05-96 Jim: I'll go to the IWOC Web site as soon as I finish this response and give my vote. (I have strong opinions on these matters...) Eric: You're thirty? Gee, you certainly don't a/c/t/ look it! I'd thought you were in your mid-twenties. Well, my comment on your need for glasses when you're fifty still stands. Loved your version of Sinai al la Milne! (Except I'd have had Moses say, "Oh, help and bother!") The IWOC is great for serious Oz fans of all descriptions, but I know that it took me something over 20 years between the time I knew about the Club and the time I finally joined. That was basically the length of time it took between my being a fan of the Oz books (and reading and rereading them as often as I could manage) who knew about the Club and deciding to become a Serious Oz Fan. But I don't have a clue what the club could have done to make itself more attractive to me between 1961 when I heard about it and 1984 when I decided to join (or 1993 when I decided to do something more than belonging to the club and reading the Bugle). The fault, dear B/r/u/t/u/s/ Eric, was not in the club, but in myself... Chris W.: I think Bear was expressing a hope that there would never be an Ozian price guide, not that there would... Gili: If you're using a Mac (as both Bear and I are) then you can definitely do what he described. But not, probably, with your Hebrew text (or at least, it wouldn't come across intelligibly - even to people who can read Hebrew - if you did). Ken S.: Pat Wrede may be a lot of fun to talk to on a one-to-one basis. My assessment of her is based on listening to her on a succession of panels at a Boskone where her constant me-me-me-me, doing her best to overpower all the other people on the panel, got me really bent out of shape. Maybe it was just a bad weekend for her; it's the only time I've seen her. Nicholas Stuart Gray is a wonderful children's writer. My favorite item of his is his play, THE OTHER CINDERELLA, which makes Cindy a spoiled brat, her stepmother and stepsisters very nice people indeed, and the real hero and heroine of the play the Demon King and Fairy Godmother. He also has a lot of other plays based on standard fairy tales, all of them delightful. (THE SEVENTH SWAN is a book based on his play of the same name.) All of his books are of very high quality; THE APPLE STONE is a very Nesbit-Eager sort of collection of connected short stories, and I've never read anything of his that isn't excellent. And I don't think any Oz fan wouldn't enjoy his books a lot. Mike: Ah, you kids - in my day we had to use granite for our punch-cards, and we wrote whole operating systems using nothing but Morse Code. (Actually, I did start using computers over phone lines where I had to put the handset onto an acoustic coupler, and then use a teletype terminal with paper tape.)(Or the old Wang "PC" where you programmed it using cards that looked like IBM punch cards, only you punched them with a needle in a frame...) F&SF frequently reprinted stories with permission; maybe that was how they printed the story we're talking about. Or maybe my memory of where I read something 40-odd years ago isn't accurate. Quinn Publishing sounds familiar - I think they may have published IF, and I might have read the story there instead of F&SF, and I might have read it in 1952 instead of 1958. (I was certainly reading SF in those days.) I doubt if it was cribbed. Even the "books" of the Bible are generally purportedly either (a) history, or (b) biography, or (c) theology; there isn't much that one would expect to have an integrated story line. Only the handful of short stories (Ruth, Jonah, Esther - Tobit, if you count the Apocrypha) might be expected to have integrated story lines, and with the exception of Jonah they do. Chris D.: Regarding Eureka's behavior in court, you have to remember that she knew already that the piglet was unharmed and that she could produce it whenever she needed to. So her uppity behavior couldn't have convicted her of (interesting - killing a man is homicide, but killing a pig, a member of the family Suidae, seems as if it should be "suicide"...) eating the piglet. Only of being uppity. Which seems to have been enough to get her exiled to Dorothy's chambers, and effectively from Oz. Bear: See my comments to Ken S. about Nicholas Stuart Gray. He hasn't had too much published in the US, unfortunately; you need to have access to UK books (that are mostly out of print now, since Gray died several years ago) to find them. Try your library first, or if you have access to a Samuel French store for playbooks, try that. Otherwise, you may have a problem... Edward Eager was a very good writer for children who wrote his first book, HALF MAGIC, IN 1954; over the next eight years he wrote six more really fine books. Most of them are available in PB now; I remember seeing them recently. They come in four batches - HALF MAGIC and MAGIC BY THE LAKE, which are successive adventures of the same family (set in the late '30s); KNIGHT'S CASTLE and THE TIME GARDEN, which are successive adventures of the children of the family of the first two books (set in the late '50s); MAGIC OR NOT? and THE WELL-WISHERS, which are unconnected to the other books and the weakest of his books; and SEVEN-DAY MAGIC, which is my personal favorite, unconnected to the other books, and has an Oz connection. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 23:27:56 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For the Digest Barbara DeJohn: You asked about the best convention. Even though I am a Munchkin, my favorite is definitely the Winkie Convention. It has the Oziest venue, and the best Oz costume contest of all. The Munchkin Convention is my second choice; it usually has great Ozzy decoraions, and a compact area devoted to IWOC activities. The Ozmopolitan ranks third in my opinion. The auction, scholarly lectures, performances of old Oz films, etc. are common to all the conventions. If you go to all three sites, you are likely to hear the same lecture three times! ====================================================================== Date: Friday 05-Jul-96 19:27:06 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things *I* have nothing to say today, but the Oz people have a question they wish to pose... (Scene: Emerald City Palace Gardens) Dorothy: Ear ache! Ear ache! Ozma (distraught): What's the matter, Dorothy? You have an ear ache you say? Dorothy: No, I'm calling my cat! (Calling) Ear ache! Ear ache! Ozma (puzzled): You're calling your *cat*??? Dorothy: You see, last night the Shaggy Man and I were listening to that great BBC radio program, _My Word!_, and they said that the proper pronounciation for the Latin (or is it Greek?) word "Eureka" is "Ear-ache"...Do you now anything about it? Ozma: No, but maybe the folks on the Ozzy Digest will...Let's ask Dave to post the question for us... Eureka: In the meantime, I'll thank you to say, "Yoor-EE-kah" as always! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 7, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 01:54:05 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest To: daveh47@delphi.com Message-id: <960706015403_149824599@emout14.mail.aol.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Barbara, The lineage of Aunt Janes Nieces is easy to tell. 1. Most of the books list titles in the series on the title page and (later) on the verso of the half title page. The order is AJN, AJN Abroad, AJN at Millville, AJN at Work, AJN in Society, AJN and Uncle John, AJN on Vacation, AJN On the Ranch, AJN Out West, AJN in the Red Cross (2 versions). If a later title appears, it obviously is not a first. (This generalization also applies to the back flap of Oz dust jackets, which list all title to date of printing except for Wizard, which belonged to Bobbs-Merrill, not Reilly & Lee). 2. All first must be Reilly & Britton on the spine. R&B became R&Lee in 1918, just after the revised AJN in the Red Cross was published. 3. AJN and AJN Abroad firsts are unique because they have greenish covers. All other AJN reprints and later titles have tan covers. AJN and AJN first are quite rare (especially the latter), and command prices of $150+. The later firsts are just uncommon, IMHO. Even dust jacketed books can be found, but beware of later jackets placed on earlier books. 4. Most dealers don't know about the green covers, and many think Edith Van Dune wore skirts. So it IS quite possible to find books in the series, even firsts, for only a few dollars. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 23:08:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-96 > From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu > Subject: OZ > > Gili: > I had not realized where Perdita in 101 DALMATIONS got her name. I always > assumed she was named after the heroine of Shakespeare's WINTER'S TALE (who > *was* given that name because she was lost.) Just to clarify things here, the Perdita of the book is NOT the same character as Perdita in the movie (the latter was just called "Mrs. Pongo" in the book). > From: Kenneth Shepherd > Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-5 comments *please post* > > Gili--Re: Perdita. I think that the Dalmation in question retains that name > in the 1961 Disney film. Incidentally, did you know that there are > live-action remakes in the works of both PINOCCHIO (starring Jonathan Taylor > Thomas) and 101 DALMATIONS (with Glenn Close as Cruella de Ville)? And I > don't think either of them is being released by Disney.... I saw "Hunchback of Notre Dame" this past weekend, which has an extended trailer at the beginning for the live action "101 Dalmatians." Believe me, this is a Disney film... (Glenn close, BTW, is a TERRIDIC Cruella de Vil.) The new "Pinocchio" I'm not so sure about, but I do know that Martin Landau is playing Gepetto. > All--Re: Eureka's Australian origins. I dunno--on rereading the passage in > DOTWIZ I find myself agreeing with David H. that Eureka's not necessarily from > Down Under. I mean, if Dot picked up a kitten in Australia, she'd have to get > it through Australian customs, carry it on board ship for more than a week > (more likely 2 to 3, although I don't know what standard shipping time would > be between, say, Sidney and San Diego), and then get it through US customs. But this was at a time when there may not have been the strict customs inspections we have now. (Another possibility: Dorothy found Eureka on board the ship!) > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Eric - You would have to guess Dorothy picked up Eureka in California. If I > remember correctly, "Eureka" is the state motto. As in GOLD, I FOUND IT! *I* never said anything about Eureka being found in California. *I* was the one who first brought up that she could be Australian! (And you think YOU have reason to growl, this keeps happening to me so often...) > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-05-96 > > Eric: > You're thirty? Gee, you certainly don't a/c/t/ look it! I'd thought > you were in your mid-twenties. Well, my comment on your need for glasses when > you're fifty still stands. I don't doubt that. But hey, just because my birth certificate says I'm thirty doesn't mean I have to suddenly start ACTING thirty (whatever THAT means). I've read too many Oz books to settle into old-fuddy-duddy-ism before I have to... > From: HermBieber@aol.com > Subject: For the Digest > > The auction, scholarly lectures, performances of > old Oz films, etc. are common to all the conventions. If you go to all three > sites, you are likely to hear the same lecture three times! Though not necessarily all in the same year! And thanks a lot, Dave, for reminding me that Earache was one of the derogatory knicknames the kids used to call me in elementary school... --Eric "Not that it would have improved things much if they'd called me Eureka" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 02:13:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim VanderNoot Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-96 Herm said: #You asked about the best convention. Even though I am a #Munchkin, my favorite is definitely the Winkie #Convention. It has the Oziest venue, and the best Oz #costume contest of all. The Munchkin Convention is my #second choice; it usually has great Ozzy decoraions, and #a compact area devoted to IWOC activities. The #Ozmopolitan ranks third in my opinion... ...and he's quite right, in my opinion. Eric said: #But what about those Club members who DON'T have access #to the Web (or just don't know how to get there)? Here's the text of the survey for those who can't web or, like Robin and Aaron, don't have browsers that support radio buttons. You may e-mail your responses to "survey@ozclub.org" ============================================================================ [logo] Oz Club Member Survey [logo] Special Publications --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Special Publications program of the International Wizard of Oz Club would like suggestions for titles to print. The Special Publications program has published out-of-print titles such as L. Frank Baum's TWINKLE AND CHUBBINS and the post-Baum titles in the Oz series, anthologies of previously published short stories by Baum and Ruth Plumly Thompson, and new works. To help us plan the publication program, let us know which of the following ideas you like. For each proposed publication, assign a number between 0-5 inclusive, with 0 being no interest and 5 being the highest interest. Also, please include your own suggestions. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Proposed Publications L. Frank Baum's 1904-1905 QUEER VISITORS FROM OZ comic pages 0 1 2 reprinted in book form 3 4 5 Reprinting L. Frank Baum's 1906 fantasy QUEEN ZIXI OF IX 0 1 2 3 4 5 Reprinting L. Frank Baum's FATHER GOOSE: HIS BOOK 0 1 2 3 4 5 Reprinting in book form the articles about the 1939 MGM Wizard of Oz movie from the special autumn issues of THE BAUM BUGLE from 0 1 2 1969, 1979, and 1989 3 4 5 Reprinting Ruth Plumly Thompson's 1932 Oz book THE PURPLE PRINCE 0 1 2 OF OZ with the original color plates 3 4 5 Printing new anthology of stories by Ruth Plumly Thompson 0 1 2 3 4 5 Printing an anthology of L. Frank Baum's poetry 0 1 2 3 4 5 Printing an anthology of little-known Baum short stories 0 1 2 3 4 5 Printing a second volume of the Oz Game Book 0 1 2 3 4 5 Printing the text and music of Baum songs for Oz theatrical shows including The Wizard of Oz (1903 - not the MGM musical!), The 0 1 2 Wogglebug (1905), and The Tik-Tok Man of Oz (1914) 3 4 5 Other publications you would like to see: Please enter your e-mail address in case of questions: email address: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to Wizard of Oz Club home page --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This page, and all contents, are copyright 1996 by The Cuttenclips, Houston, Texas, U.S.A. ------------------------------------- Jim Vander Noot E-mail: jvandern@sam.neosoft.com Date: 7/6/96 Time: 2:13:14 AM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 15:58:46 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-96 Hi Digest! Hmm, most of what I have to post today is not very Ozzy. Oh well. About 101 Dalmations - If I remember correctly, the *name* Perdita was used in the movie (presumabely because it sounded better than "Misses Pongo", which is the mother dalmation's name in the book), but the *Character* was not. In the book, she is a third adult dalmation adopted by the human couple, the Dearlys, after Mrs. Dearly found her lying in the middle of a country road on a rainy October day. Both SJT and I were correct about how she got her name: "'We'll call her Perdita,' said Mrs. Dearly, and explained to the Nannies that this was after a character in Shakespeare. '/She/ was lost. And the Latin word for lost is /perditus/.'" I guess the difference between how Perdita and Eureka were named, can be accounted for by the fact that Mrs. Dearly assumed that Perdita had had a prior owner who had lost her, wheareas Eureka was assumed to be an ownerless stray. Or else its the difference between looking at the empty half of the cup or the full one. In the book, Perdita's puppies had been sold to Cruella De-Ville when they were very young, and she had run away to look for them - that's when Mrs. Dearly found her. She helped Pongo and Mrs. Pongo look after their 15 puppies before Cruella dognapped them. BTW, I think Glenn Close will make a marvellous Cruella! Bear - Lots of European Jews from my grandmother's generation grew up speaking Yiddish, but it is a rapidly vanishing language. I think the only people in my generation (I'm 21) who still speak it in Israel are Ultra-Orthodox Jews who refuse to speak Hebrew because it is a holy language. And they are basically closed off in their own communities and have very little contact with less religious Jews. Plus, you wouldn't have been able to read my essay even if it were written in Yiddish, because though Yiddish is more German than Hebrew, it is written in Hebrew letters! David - attempts to paste have resulted in meaningless gibberish splashed across the screen. I think we don't have the right software. BTW, speaking of computers, back in 1984 we were one of the first families with a Macintosh (the first Macs were sold to Stanford University Faculty, which my mother was just that one year) and to this day, I have gotten along with not much more than the computer skills I learnt then. In those days, I was a pretty sophisticated nine-year-old - now, I'm computer illiterate. Herm - thanks for the price outlines. Everybody - I too don't think it would be a great idea to publish an exact price guide,however, as Herm's outline was not a suggestion, but a summary of the club auction prices for the last few years, it did give me an idea of what a "reasonable" price is. Maybe Jane should publish something like Herm's outline in the Gazette? Bye! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 06:53:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Addendum for the Digest Oops, one more little thing I need to mention: There is a TERRIFIC Oz in-joke in "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" -- but if you don't know the movie very well, you may not pick it up, if the reaction of the audience I saw it with (adults as well as children) is any indication. Most of us here should be able to get it, though. It's towards the end, during the big climactic battle scene, and involves Laverne (the crusty old lady gargoyle voiced by the late Mary Wickes) and the creatures who keep pestering her throughout the movie. --Eric "The whole movie's pretty good, I might add" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 10:38:46 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 07-06-96 Herm: Thanks for your rundown on the going prices for various Oz books. (Now let's make sure that it doesn't get published outside the Digest! ) Assuming that current plans continue in effect, your desire for a more rural setting for Ozmopolitan should be fulfilled starting next year. Eric: The first computer I ever owned used 8-inch floppies. I thought I was in hog heaven with almost a whole megabyte of storage accessible at one time, and 64K of RAM. (And on a CP/M machine, that really was quite a lot...) Robin: I think Eager is dead now. He certainly hasn't written anything since the early '60s. Ken S.: PINOCCHIO is PD, but I'd think anyone wanting to remake 101 DALMATIANS would need to get Disney's permission - unless the film rights Disney bought only extended to making one movie, which would be most un-Disney-like. I don't think it was that difficult to bring animals into the US in the nineteen-oughts, or out of Australia. Sydney to San Francisco would probably be about a three-week voyage in a steamship. But there's no reason to think that Dorothy would have kept Eureka in the bird cage at any time except when on a train or in a cab or the like. And I doubt if there was a significant added expense in bringing a kitten along on the ship. Bear: Most of what we got rid of in our book-culling was mysteries or non-fiction (on subjects one of us had once had a mild interest in and no longer did). And the great majority were passed on to friends, though a couple or three boxes did end up donated to libraries for their sales. (I actually did get rid of a few Oz books, but they went to a friend who'd been turned on to Oz by reading GLASS CAT and wanted to read more in the series. Most of them were the "white" editions of Baum titles that I'd replaced with the BoW reprints; there weren't any that were very valuable. The most valuable was probably a copy of SPEEDY that I think was from about 1940.) The cut-and-paste capability on a Mac isn't even dependent on the WP software you're using; it's part of the Mac operating system. Gili has to be able to do it if she's using a Mac. Dave: I have no idea how Classical Greek is pronounced, so can't tell you or the Oz people whether "Eureka" was pronounced "ear ache". But I'll be interested in the answer of anyone who does know, if such a one exists on the Digest. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 12:39:31 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: OZ Ken S.: I don't know about the live action PINOCCHIO (I just learned this week it would be coming out), but the live action 101 DALMATIONS certainly *is* from Disney, and will be released for Thanksgiving 1996. (Gili-That's late November). Gili: When OZKIDS is shown on Israeli television, is it dubbed in Hebrew or have Hebrew subtitles or neither? Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:28:17 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-6-96 Herm B: Many thanks for your very informative post regarding Oz book prices. I've been trying, for some time now, to estimate the value of my collection for insurance purposes. Now, armed with Bibliographia Oziana and your comments, I think I can handle the job. :-) Peter Hanff: Back in April you suggested Robert Riley Pattrick's UNEXPLORED TERRITORY IN OZ essays for those of us interested in Oz canon, inconsistencies between books, etc., and after some three months, I have received (from IWOC) and read both the essays alone, and the version annotated by Patrick Maund. I found the essays both interesting and insightful, and recommend them, (particularly the annotated version) to all Digest subscribers. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 16:06:15 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for digest I do not know the URL for the toy or Cartoon Networks. I always just go to the "for kids only" button and it takes me right to them. How does one find out the URL? I can ask Chris X. about the Cartoon one, actually... Die-hard fans of Dave Hardenbrook can breathe a lot easier now. I have just gotten a big package from him (actually, the big part is on disk...). Locasta and the 3 Adepts is now here! I have not had a chance to read the whole revised text, but I suspect that all of the minor inaccuracies have been skillfully explained. I will let you know after I read it. Also, Dave included a few portraits he'd drawn of the main characters. Yes, I think Enya is recognizable in Glinda, but these will not be mistaken for Marcus Mebes. Dave has a style all his own, and it is not an imitation of anyone else's. He did say that there are "many more illustrations to come." I think the story is strong enough that it doesn't need THAT many, but I do think we should get to see his visions of the Nome King and Taarna, anyway... Also, I have received an upgraded manuscript for The Magic Bowls of Oz. All this new stuff to proofread! Arg! But it's worth it in the long run. I have to agree that Winkie is by far the best of the Club's Cons, especially from a dealer's viewpoint. It has the most young people, and they tend to buy a lot more Oz books. I'd say the WORST Con is Munchkin, where it requires an act of God and Congress to sell anything (the auction is even like pulling teeth! I remember the one year I went it seemed like Marc Lewis spent at least twenty minutes begging people to bid on each item, which they almost never did even after all that!). Ozmapolitan rates second best. I will add that Quadling is small, intimate and lots of fun (not a great place for dealers, but still very charming and I do recommend it highly). Yo Gili! Will you be making the trip again? It was cool to see you there last year. Also, can you rate the Oz babies cartoon? I saw a perfectly AWFUL episode based on Ozma of Oz (gee, you'd have seen that one, too...), while a friend of mine saw what he thought was a terrific episode based on Kidnapped Santa Claus. We are anxious to see if it's a difference in our personal tastes or if the two episodes really ARE that varied in quality. I wonder if these will ever be televised in the US... On that note, I will sign off and get an e-mail out to Chris X to learn the URL for the Cartoon network. Maybe that'll be the place to look for 'em! ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 18:05:05 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Ozzy stuff, not necessarily related to anything previous-- Are the heroes of Oz given any special duties, presumably as aides to Ozma? I know that Dorothy is a Princess, Scarecrow was sort-or Secretary of Treasury in LAND at least, and the Wizard is, well, the Wizard. . . Here are my suggestions if not. . . Queen-- Ozma Princess-- Dorothy (others?) Minister of Magic-- Wizard Minister of Defense-- Tiktok Secretary of State-- Scarecrow Secretary of Education-- Wogglebug Secretary of Animals-- Cowardly Lion Secretary of Fashion-- Jenny Jump Secretary of the Interior-- Uncle Henry Royal Explorer-- Captain Salt (see below) Ambassadors of the Emerald City-- Trot, Capn Bill, ButtonBright (I left out those who are rulers of their own kingdoms, like Glinda and Nick Chopper. Also, I've only read up to SCARECROW, so I'm sure this list is not fully HACC. The Frogman belongs there somewhere, right?) However, Oz culture is not wholly American (as mostly evidenced in the absolute monarchy they use.) Perhaps Ozma has more of a Parliamentary cabinet to help her rule. Anybody out there more familiar with this type of government to make some Ozzy parallels? "Give these people something to DO for Lurline's sake!," Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 04:55:17 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Eureka! Dave--I suspect Frank Muir or Denis Norden was having somebody on. I can't find anything in my OED that suggests that the word was ever pronounced differently than we do today. You may relay this information to the Palace if you see fit... --KRS ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 22:12:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-96 Book Prices: Herm Bieber and I do not always agree, which is great for people who buy from Herm. >>Good (no major flaws) B&W reprints of Baum Oz books with pictorial paste-on cover labels generally fetch $25 to $35. I wish we could afford to sell them that cheaply. Ours run from $37.50 on up. We've got rent and salaries to worry about. Herm doesn't. >>The Thompson and later titles go for $35 to $45. Again, I wish we could meet Herm's prices. We run from $47.50 up. >>Color plate reprints are about double these prices. Yup. >>And ALL color plate copies of the last plate book, Wishing Horse, are firsts. Same thing for JACK PUMPKINHEAD. YELLOW KNIGHT,PIRATES,PURPLE PRINCE, OJO, and SPEEDY are, according to BIBLIOGRAPHIA OZIANA, first editions if they have color plates. >>Nice first editions of the post-Baum Oz books are in the $150 to $200 range,even the later B&W ones. Oddly, we tend to have the same price structure here, although it can go higher, depending upon condition. >>The Baum firsts are much higher for the earlier books. 'fraid so. >>Wizards are in four figures and the price is very conditionsensitive. For Land through P.G., $300 to $500 is the range, with the handsome Emerald City being in somewhat higher demand. Again, our price structure is similar. >>... books that are crayoned, torn, or very loose are almost worthless. I wish I'd had you in the shop today, Herm, when a woman was offended because I didn't deign to buy her 5th. edit. WIZARD, second state that had 4.5 of its plates, no eps, and chewed edges. I *did* buy her 1st. of GLINDA, disbound...no spine or front cover at all...with 9 cps. I figured I might be able to use it as a breaker or something. BTW, y'all may be able to remove a lot of crayoning if you use rubber cement a little bit at a time. Apply over a small area. When it's tacky, remove gently. Crayon will, to some degree, come off with it. PROBLEMS: Rubber cement is a carcinogen. Be careful with it. Also, it's possible that the stuff may damage the pulp paper, although I've never noted that. Peter Glassman told me he was concerned about that once, and he knows more than I do about stuff like this. Bottom line: Herm's prices are marvelously low. Mine are considerably lower than most retailers. Use your best judgment out there. I s'pose if you have doubts, you could always post your queries in the DIGEST. :-) Bye, bye! I'm off to California in the morning. I'm Winkies-bound. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 06-Jul-96 23:08:58 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ( Or at least indirectly Ozzy :) ) ALADDIN: Speaking of Disney movies, I got a catalog from Disney today, and for those who are interested, the new Aladdin video, "Aladdin and the King of Thieves" will be shipped on August 12! And *Robin Williams* will return as Genie!!! YAY!!! (Nothing personal to the guy who did him for the TV series.) :) :) :) GREMLINS AND EARACHES IN OZ: Eric wrote: >And thanks a lot, Dave, for reminding me that Earache was one of the >derogatory knicknames the kids used to call me in elementary school... When I was in high school, they called me "Cosmo-Gremlin" (Who else do you know who had a *HYPHENATED* derogatory nickname?!!) OZ KIDS: Chris D. wrote: >Also, can you rate the Oz babies cartoon? I saw a perfectly AWFUL >episode based on Ozma of Oz I saw a preview of the show ("Kidnapped Santa" and other Christmas episodes) at last years' South Winkie Convention. I fail to see how they can do a version of _Ozma_ since the "Ozma" character on that show is *not* queen of Oz, is a daughter of Glinda, and is named ANDREA! _LOCASTA_: Thanks, Chris, for your comments on my illustrations. :) I won't go overboard and do too many. :) :) I hope you like the revised version of the text! :) :) :) MY WORD!: Thanks for your info. Ken! I'll inform Ozma and Dorothy that Denis N. was just making a very bad joke...( Glad to see another _My Word!_ fan here! :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 8, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:50:38 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-07-96 Sorry, Chrisbucket, no can make it to Winkie's this summer. Hopefully next. About "Oz Kids" - for some reason, there is absolutely no correlation between when the newspapers say it will be broadcast, and what is actually broadcast in the same timeslot. AAARGH! I may never get to see it. I suspect some poor mixed-up assistant-producer at the children's cable channel faxed the newspapers the wrong schedules a couple of weeks ago. So, I still don't know whether it was dubbed into Hebrew or just subtitled ... I'll let you know as soon as I do. Bye! Gili ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 10:42:51 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Digest: Robin: I'm afraid you misinterpreted my post on prices. I was merely reporting my sense (from careful records I keep) of AVERAGE PRICES REALIZED AT IWOC CONVENTIONS. Members expect, IMHO, to pay less at convention auctions than from dealers (although there are many examples of spectacular over-bidding, which thankfully enrich the Club, and help to make the Bugle the marvelous value it is). I didn't say that this is what Oz books should fetch in the real world. I DO try to emulate IWOC auction prices as much as possible, and yes, mine is a hobby business, not my livelihood, and yes, I pay no rent and have no employees (hence, the often slow response time to inquiries). Again, I wasn't trying to impugn your prices, which ARE low for a store, or trying to start a "I'll show mine if you show yours" contest. I also agree there shouldn't be a widely available price guide, and that is one of the reasons that I have stopped publishing extensive catalogs which were used thusly by many dealers. And I should also mention, for the benefit of less experienced collectors, that high catalog prices for old books, although propagated in many price guides, are OFFERS ONLY. They do not mean the book was ever sold for anything near that. Only auction prices realized are "real" price data, and even these must be averaged to avoid getting the wrong impression from either low results (lack of the right buyers in the audience), or absurd prices (a bidding fight between two well-heeled collectors). Herm ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 08:47:49 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Please excuse the late replies to several items below. I've been VERY busy with getting ready to move our store AND caring for a very ill family member in the hospital (who, thank God!, is well on the way to recovery!). For those who asked: the toll-free 800 number for The Oz Collector is (800) 345-6665. The next "introductory" issue of The Oz Collector (which is what we send to anyone who hasn't bought an Oz book from our catalogs) will be available in early August. To request a copy, you can call and request one at (800) 207-6968 - but please understand this is just for catalog _requests_ NOT orders. Now on to other matters: Dave Hulan: >Note to Peter G: wouldn't it be a good idea to put your toll-free ordering >number somewhere in the body of THE OZ COLLECTOR, instead of just on the >order blank? I don't usually save the latter, but neither of the two TOCs I >have handy include the number. Dave, you must have some very OLD issues of The Oz Collector "handy" because our 800 numberw has been standard "boiler plate" at the bottom of the last two or three issues of The Oz Collector. Eric Gjovaag: >I KNEW I liked Jim (even though I only met him once before he died). I >didn't discover Eager until college, which is when I re-discovered Nesbit >as well. (Peter G., if you're reading this, how soon will BoW be >reprinting more Nesbit titles?) Well, we've scheduled two reissues with the original H.R. Millar b&w illustrations for this fall - "The Magic City" and "Wet Magic". And sometime in the next year or two, Paul Zelinsky has promised to deliver his full color art for "Five Children and It" - the first of the three books in that series which he will be illustrating in color for our "Books of Wonder Classics" series. Gordon Birrell: >By the way: I notice that the jacket notes to the BoW Dorothy and the >Wizard refer to this work as Baum's "metaphysical" Oz book. Could >someone explain what that is supposed to mean? (Peter G.?) I think you must have another edition of "Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz" in mind. I just checked our dust jacket and my afterword and their is no reference anywhere in either to the book being "metaphysical". David Hulan: >I don't know why BoW considers DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD "metaphysical"; my take >on it is that Baum had a contract to write a book of a minimum length and he >found a pretty good beginning and then kept adding stuff until he'd reached >the required length. Books of Wonder DOES NOT consider "Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz" metaphysical, as stated above. This is a classic case of one perons's error proliferating. One of the more alarming trends I've noticed on this mailing list (and throughout the internet, for that matter) is to take as gospel anything anybody posts. A little fact checking would go a LOOONG way in preventing dissemination of misinformation. Robin Olderman: >E.Eager is a children's fantasy writer, still published and worth >hunting. I think he's still alive, but I don't know. His work is >lovely and fun. Unfortunately, Robin, Edward Eager dies shortly after his last book was published. I understand that he had been working on a fifth book in the "Half-Magic" sequence that would have involved all eight children in one book-length adventure. It's a shame that he didn't live to finish it. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:01:11 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-96 >>From: Robin Olderman >>Subject: DIGEST << Everyone: I kinda would appreciate knowing who some of you are who use nicknames. A few of you don't tell us who you really are. Please do so, if you think there's any chance that we don't know. Thanks. --Robin >> Well, Geoff Gould here: on-line known as < Badger >, at Doctor Who Cons as The Master (original Delgado incarnation), at Trek Cons as Commander Geoffrey Gould and Ops Chief for the ISS Lexington, and within the SCA known as Badger Glave of Silvermist.... =============================== >>From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY >>Subject: trivia, cons, and plotting << Gosh, as usual, so much stuff to respond to after a weekend. Where to start, where to start? Prof. Marvel's horse: The answer is me, as well. That was an easy one (at least to someone with a three-year-old who had an insatiable appetite for the movie). Here's another: Name four foods that are shown in the movie. >> I guess I missed someone asking the trivia question about Sylvester. Foods: (apparently) oats (given to the pigs), crullers, a hot dog, a lollipop and apples. Do you know how many chops does it take to knock in the witch's door? Viewing the video doesn't count . =============================== >>From: Kenneth Shepherd >>Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-1 comments *please post* << Badger--Re: Oz vs. America. Thanks for your comments. Just for the record: Although I'm a bit of a prude myself, I believe that it would be absolutely wrong for me to impose my personal morality on anyone else. My point is that this same imposition happens (or used to happen) in Oz the same way it does in America. I think that Baum's Oz is a kind of utopian vision of the United States. What interests me about that is that Baum advocates things that would no longer be accepted by most people in modern American society. >> "Oz vs. America:" sounds like war's been declared...! I'm impressed you recognized your withholding imposing your beliefs on others in a way that would seem they "must" believe the same way. When Religious Imposers come by "to do their work," I am so tempted to vibrate my voice in falsetto and inquire a la Billie Burke: "Are you a Good Christian, or a Bad Christian?" I always thought a Utopian society would be one of even purer freedom that the Americas were designed: with everyone living their own lives as they saw fit, being responsible for their own actions to themselves and to others, harming none (and I've never known any logical reason simple nudity would harm anyone), and any Utopia would certainly be without "big government" or a monarchy. I could be wrong with my definition. I guess I should re-read "Emerald City" for Flutterbudget Center and Rigmarole Town that you cite: while it's my favourite book of the lot, it was actually the plotting of the invasion that held my interest. I tended to think of the tour of Oz as "filler" as the armies grew in strength in the Nome storyline. =============================== >>From: Gili Bar-Hillel >>Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-01-96 << I used to be a pretty regular lurker on rec.pets.cats. It was pretty useful to be able to screen out all messages that started with the word "Meow", in which owners wrote on behalf of their cats, and were written in a sickening version of babytalk. Some people like that kind of thing. >> Sounds like cat-lover version of Trekkies.... =============================== >>From: DavidXOE@aol.com >>Subject: Ozzy Digests, 06-28 through 07-01-96 << What the hey, I don't like Dickens either, but it would be difficult to say that his writing is "terrible". I just find it unreadable. >> He was the best of authors, he was the worst of authors..... Actually, if you think you dislike Dickens, you should come to NYC (if you're not local already) come December if Patrick Stewart does his incredible one-man production of "A Christmas Carol." =============================== >>From: "Aaron S. Adelman" >>Subject: The Barrier of Invisibility << Badger, on how G-d came up with the human blueprint: I have no idea. = =20 I'm still trying to figure out such things as why mammals and not=20 dinosaurs, why five fingers and not four or six, and why no tails and=20 nowhere near enough fur. I'd like to get a look at a wide assortment of=20 sentient extraterrestrials before even hazarding a guess. >> Well, dinosaurs did kinda go extinct . "We" once *did* have tails and we lost'em/grew out of them, and we lost our fur when we started wearing skins against the cold and brambles, and then we foolishly (or at least strangely) decided Clothes All The Time was a Good Thing. When you say "wide assortment of sentient extraterrestrials," do you mean Greys, Nordics, Lizards, et al? =============================== >>From: Dave Hardenbrook >>Subject: Ozzy Things << QUEEN OZMA AND OTHER "SHE"S WHO MUST BE OBEYED :) : David H. wrote: >"Rumpole in Oz" is a lovely idea! Too bad Rumpole is copyright... Even though Rumpole is copyrighted, I may still write it just for the fun of it (ditto for _Columbo in Oz_). So what if I can't publish it until the latter part of the next century? :) >> One could always write "parody" versions of such characters, such as "Rumple of Oz" or such (although I cringe at the concept of *lawyers* in(vading) Oz, even those that are excellent barristers).... =============================== ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:01:50 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-96 >>From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) >>Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff >>Magic Users-- << would using a magic item make someone a "magic-user?" I know Ozma would not be so petty as to punish someone like that, but just for the sake of arguement I thought I'd ask. "Dorothy! I told you not to look at that Magic Picture! Back to jail you go!" >> "And so Dorothy was forced to play the word game Taboo while wearing a cloth gagging her mouth...." =============================== ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:01:52 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-96 >>From: Eric Gjovaag >>Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-96 << Have YOU tried reading the Book of Records? It's so crammed with information that it's difficult to find ANYTHING, and it doesn't have an index or a search engine or anything useful like that. Besides, Glinda has better things to do than spend all her time reading the Book of Records. >> I thought it had a search engine. Unless I'm remembering only from an OZIANA short story, can't you request the book to show you "all references" to a specific person or subject, and it goes to that page? =============================== >>From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu >>Subject: Oz related matters << What's "spamming"? >> Spamming is a term (I know not from where) refering to "unsolicited e-mails" regarding business opportunities, products and services. Essentially, it's a derogatory term used for people using the Internet for the advertising of commerce. While level headed people (not to be confused with HammerHeads ) who are disinterested can just Delete such messages from their e-mail boxes, even without having read them, there are those who have so much time on their hands they go ballistic if they receive such mailings. I get dozens every week. I read a few, delete most of them. I don't waste my time replying with screams and flames to delete me from their "lists," nor do I bother complaining to their services' webmasters and postmasters shrieking how dare they offer me something I might find useful. But there are folks that do that. =============================== ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:01:55 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-96 >>From: Dave Hardenbrook >>Subject: Ozzy Things << Dorothy: Ear ache! Ear ache! Ozma (distraught): What's the matter, Dorothy? You have an ear ache you say? Dorothy: No, I'm calling my cat! (Calling) Ear ache! Ear ache! Ozma (puzzled): You're calling your *cat*??? Dorothy: You see, last night the Shaggy Man and I were listening to that great BBC radio program, _My Word!_, and they said that the proper pronounciation for the Latin (or is it Greek?) word "Eureka" is "Ear-ache"...Do you now anything about it? Ozma: No, but maybe the folks on the Ozzy Digest will...Let's ask Dave to post the question for us... Eureka: In the meantime, I'll thank you to say, "Yoor-EE-kah" as always! >> I never knew this regarding its pronunciation. I do think it's Latin actually, and I always thought the word didn't mean "I found it" but (unless it's only anecdotal): "My bath is too hot!" -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Demons are a ghoul's best friend." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:32:38 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for digest Well, I am slowly getting through the IBM-isms of Dave's book. Sadly, IBMs are tools of Satan and are designed specifically to cause me a lot of grief (really, the inventor was thinking of me personally when he did it!). Anyway, one very serious problem is the fact that there is a Return or Enter in every single line of text, and I have to manually delete it in every line. I am also having a hard time ignoring the story in order to do this (Dave should learn to write less interesting stories that won't take my attention away from the task:-)). Also, italics don't translate well. Actually, I think this is a VERY interesting story, and I hope that you will all want to read it. Once I see how many pages we've got after it is formatted, I can probably give you an idea as to how many big bucks it will cost per copy. It is longer than the average Oz book, but it isn't Disenchanted Princess. I assume that it will be somewhere in between. Whatever it ends up co$ting, it will be well worth it, I assure you. There. If that doesn't make Dave blush, nothing will. Rinny and I will be departing for the Winkie Con tomorrow at 5:05 pm, so you may be subjected to one more of my digest submissions before we go. Then you will be happy to know that you are free for a whole week. We will be returning on the following Monday, and I hope I'll have some digests to read (I'm not sure that aol will store them for me, though, so y'all might want to e-mail things to me Monday morning -the 15th- instead of earlier). We are taking a Southwest Flyaboutabus, so you can watch the news for the inevitable plane crash. We do not plan on attending the Thursday night dinner, but will be thrilled to see y'all on Friday. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:51:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: the cruller question Eric and Steve T., I first saw the WoZ when I was a little kid growing up in Oregon, and I just assumed that a cruller was a big cookie, having never seen one. All the times I've seen the movie since then, that original misinterpretation stuck with me, even though Aunt Em clearly says "crullers" and I eventually learned what they were. I mention this little anecdote mainly because of the recent discussion of favorite and not-so-favorite Oz books, in which many of you noted that the books you read first, in childhood, had a privileged position. My misidentification of the crullers is certainly evidence of the way a childhood memory trace can overlay and even partially cancel out a more recent experience. (A colleague of mine who specializes in the psychology of memory says this is a far more common phenomenon than you might think.) I have to wonder how Aunt Em finds time to play the perfect farmwife hostess, passing around a bowl of crullers, when she is supposedly frantic to get all those little chicks out of the broken incubator! Incidentally, I notice that the farm hands say "Thank you, Mrs. Gale," which indicates that as far as the screenwriters were concerned, Dorothy was paternally related to Uncle Henry--i.e., she is the daughter of his brother--otherwise they wouldn't have the same last name. I checked in EC to see if the farm couple is ever introduced as Mr. and Mrs. Gale, but apparently they are Aunt Em and Uncle Henry to all and sundry. Bear: Yes, Yiddish is based on one of the southern dialects of Middle High German, a medieval forerunner of modern German. I've studied Middle High, and it's kind of amazing to hear the remnants of it in contemporary Yiddish. There's enough of a gap between Middle High and New High German (particularly with regard to vowel quality) that learning the modern language won't help you a lot unless you have a really good ear. And of course Yiddish also contains many words of Slavic and Hebrew origins. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 20:32:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Thank you all for the info on Gray and Eager. I shall seek locally. Eric - There is an easy explanation. You stated your belief about Eureka's origin. In response to you, I stated mine. You're too touchy. I see Eric - anyone over 30 is "settling into old-fuddy-duddy-ism." Eric, Eric, come down from the chandelier - I was only kidding. :) Mr. Randolph and anyone else worried about insuring their books. The best way to protect yourself is of course make a list with prices. However, step two is to lay out the books, etc. and get a video camera and shoot them. You need to store a copy of the video with a friend/relative, not in your house. The extra coverage for a book collection is pretty inexpensive. However, we all pray we will never have to try to collect from an insurance company. Has anyone on the Digest ever had any experience with that? Sunday Greetings, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 18:27:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-07-96 > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-96 > > Hmm, most of what I have to post today is not very Ozzy. Oh well. That's okay, seeing as at many real life Oz events (conventions and the like), the converation often drifts to other areas as well. Goes with the territory. > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: for digest > > I do not know the URL for the toy or Cartoon Networks. I always just go to > the "for kids only" button and it takes me right to them. Then it's probably just an AOL-only thing that most of us can't access. > How does one find > out the URL? I can ask Chris X. about the Cartoon one, actually... Depends on your search engine, but most of them have a line somewhere, usually at the top, that shows the URL of where you're at, and you can type in a URL of where you want to go. > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest > > Ozzy stuff, not necessarily related to anything previous-- > > Are the heroes of Oz given any special duties, presumably as aides to > Ozma? I know that Dorothy is a Princess, Scarecrow was sort-or > Secretary of Treasury in LAND at least, and the Wizard is, well, the > Wizard. . . They're all just sort-of ad hoc advisors. In Oz, they don't see the need for pretentious titles and clearly-delineated duties, they all just do what they're best at. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > ( Or at least indirectly Ozzy :) ) > > ALADDIN: > Speaking of Disney movies, I got a catalog from Disney today, and for those > who are interested, the new Aladdin video, "Aladdin and the King of Thieves" > will be shipped on August 12! And *Robin Williams* will return as Genie!!! > YAY!!! (Nothing personal to the guy who did him for the TV series.) :) :) :) That would be Dan Castallaneta (sp?), probably best known as the voice of Homer Simpson. > OZ KIDS: > Chris D. wrote: > >Also, can you rate the Oz babies cartoon? I saw a perfectly AWFUL > >episode based on Ozma of Oz > > I saw a preview of the show ("Kidnapped Santa" and other Christmas episodes) > at last years' South Winkie Convention. I fail to see how they can do a > version of _Ozma_ since the "Ozma" character on that show is *not* queen of > Oz, is a daughter of Glinda, and is named ANDREA! It's not actually CALLED "Ozma of Oz," it's only loosely based on the story. (And for those who don't know, the Little Wizard Stories, to give it's correct title, are being released on videotape in the United States next month.) (At least, that was the last I heard...) --Eric "FOUR MORE DAYS BEFORE I GO TO WINKIES!" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 22:34:45 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-96 Aaron: 3) Melody, on destroying the Magic Belt: Hmm. Why didn't I think of that... >The Queasy (spokesbeing for the characters in Aaron's head): >Fortunately, he's not serious. At least I THINK he's not serious... >Quentin the Kiwi of Quok: Well, it'll only take a few shakes of my magic >spatula and... Of course, if destroying the Belt seems too drastic, one could also have the Oz characters lose the Magic Belt, be forced to do without it for several sequels, and then find it again. : ) :) Melody ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 04:15:58 +0000 (GMT) From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-07-96 At 08:40 PM 7/7/96 +0000, you wrote: From: Scott Olsen Re: Oz Club membership IMHO (and mine only--no one's paying me to say this), I cannot understand how one could be interested in Oz and not be a member of the IWOC. Perhaps some don't realize or have forgotten that in the late 60's and 70's, in regard to Oz, the club was all there was! Reilly & Lee had given up on Oz. It was the club, and only the club, that was keeping Oz alive with publications such as Animal Fairy Tales and Yankee in Oz. Every major research publication regarding Oz, from To Please a Child, The Annotated Wizard of Oz, The Oz Scrapbook, to the 50th Anniversary of The Wizard of Oz movie by John Fricke would not have been possible without the club's help. And if this weren't enough, the club's research into the different editions and states of the Oz books as well as Baum's books is priceless. My collection would be no where what it is today without The Trading Post or the convention auctions I have been fortunate to attend. I haven't mentioned the Bugle yet. I challenge anyone to find a better club publication than the Bugle. We're kind of spoiled nowadays, but there used to be a time when the Bugle was all there was! Getting a Bugle in the mail now is still as exciting as it was 28 years ago when I first joined the club. There are many names on the digest that are familar to me because they have either written for the Bugle (you know who you are) or have sent me something I've ordered (thanks Robin). Every club has a high turnover for its first year members, but why would someone base a decision not to join on what others have done? Twenty dollars a year isn't that much. Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 07-Jul-96 22:00:33 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZ CLUB: Has the Oz club changed its E-mail and Web addresses? I noticed some yesterday mentioned an "ozclub.org" address...Can someone give me the new E-mail/URL addresses for the club? REPLIES TO BADGER: >>From: "Aaron S. Adelman" >>I'm still trying to figure out such things as why mammals and not=20 >>dinosaurs, why five fingers and not four or six, and why no tails and=20 >>nowhere near enough fur. I'd like to get a look at a wide assortment of=20 >>sentient extraterrestrials before even hazarding a guess. >> >Well, dinosaurs did kinda go extinct . I think that's what Aaron is driving at: Why did the dinos go extinct and not us mammals? That of course is a mystery that the scientests are still having raging arguments about. FWIW, I prefer Robert Bakker's "Gradual Loss of Diversity" theory to the Comet, "Death Star", and other "Weekend Cataclysm" theories. Of course, you'd better read my _Locasta and 3 Adepts of Oz_ if you think the dinosaurs are *totally* extinct! :) :) :) >I thought it [Book of Records] had a search engine. Glinda: If it does, I wish you'd show me how it works...this d--m software manual is no help at all! :) >I always thought a Utopian society would be one of even purer freedom that >the Americas were designed... Of course the two words in the Ozian Constitution, "Behave yourself", are rather vague, but my assesment is that is just the Ozian equivalent of the credo of Shangri-La, "Be kind." The Ozians enjoy full freedom, as long as they don't physically, mentally or emotionally hurt anyone. As far as clothes go, I doubt Ozma has imposed a dress code. The other day as I walked down the streets of the Emerald City, I saw some people in modern dress, some in Medieval dress, some in Victorian dress, some in Grecian dress, some in Jane-Austen-Era dress, and *a few* wearing nothing at all! ;) MY BOOK: Chris wrote: >Whatever it ends up co$ting, it will be well worth it, I assure you. >There. If that doesn't make Dave blush, nothing will. * I'm blushing! :) * -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 9, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 09:54:44 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Re: Book Insurance and Book Losses The only person I know who has experience with book losses is IWOC Vice President Warren Hollister (holliste@humanitas.ucsb.edu) who sadly lost a good part of his world class collection in the great Santa Barbara brush fire some years back. I think he had insurance, and he would probably respond to a personal e-mail. Herm ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 10:21:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-08-96 cartoon networks homepage i do beleive is http://www.ghostplanet.com hugs anthony van pyre i know there webpage is available to all just do a web search for it ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 10:22:39 -0400 From: Nathan Faut Subject: Composer for Marvelous Land of Oz The following URL _might_ be of interest to some of you: http://www.mnonline.org/wobegon/onstage/aphccast.htm At the bottom, Rich Dworsky is credited as composer for the musical, The Marvelous Land of Oz. Anybody got more information than that? Nathan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 10:10:35 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: removing crayon from Oz books Robin wrote: >BTW, y'all may be able to remove a lot of crayoning if you use rubber >cement a little bit at a time. Apply over a small area. When it's tacky, >remove gently. Crayon will, to some degree, come off with it. PROBLEMS: >Rubber cement is a carcinogen. Be careful with it. Also, it's possible >that the stuff may damage the pulp paper, although I've never noted that. >Peter Glassman told me he was concerned about that once, and he knows >more than I do about stuff like this. As a resident Oz-fan/Chemist (are there any others?), I can alieve any fears that rubber cement is a carcinogen. The small exposure that you would get it using it to clean up some crayon marks is insignificant. Bar-b-Q chicken is probably more dangerous. I have used rubber cement to remove crayon markings on an other wise fine first edition Oz book. It works very well to remove the majority of the crayon, but the papaer retains a discoloration from the dye. Thanks to Herm and Robin for their expert advice about book prices! But why so much fear of a published price guide? I think there are MANY more OVERPRICED Oz books in the marketplace than underpriced ones. A tattered reprint of the Emerald City for $250? Please! When I see things like this, and politely offer the dealer information about the edition, I would like to have a price guide to back up my statements. There are many times I see an Oz book that I would like to purchase for a FAIR price, but simply can't or don't want to show the dealer that their price is unreasonable. For both Herm & Robin (or others): How much for a vg+ Thompson reprint with spectacular DJ (probably 50's reprint: no cp's). Cheers, Scott PS - The Drexel Theatre in Columbus, OH is showing the Wizard of Oz on Wednesday the 10th (afternoon?). ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 10:53:29 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-8-96 Bear: - I appreciate your comments regarding protecting and insuring Oz books.(Although referring to me as *Mr* makes me REALLY feel my age. :-)) But what you refer to as Step two, creating a video record of one's collection, was my Step one. I have one copy on premises, and one in a bank safe-deposit box, (along with a copy of the list) and I update as necessary. The list describes each book, as per BO, as well as condition. Soon, it will also contain approximate values! Scott O. - I agree with your comments re: joining the IWOC. When the Club began, I was a young married guy with family and job concerns occupying my life, and Oz books packed away in the attic. But when retirement arrived, my interest was re-kindled. I joined the Club in '93, attended Munchkin Cons in '94 & '95, where I was able to fill several gaps in my collection thru the auctions and folks like Herm Bieber and Bruce Conklin. The Bugle, the Trading Post and all the other publications, alone, are, I agree, well worth the yearly dues. Dick (PLEASE don't call me Mr. :-)) Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 11:36:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" 1) By "extraterrestrials" I mean real extraterrestrials, not blatantly fictional ones or ones out of people's delusions. No information on them currently exists. 2) Uh, Dave, dinosaurs aren't dead. Living dinosaurs are called birds. Also, Dave wrote: <> Quentin the Kiwi of Quok: Of course the people wearing nothing at all weren't human.... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 19:10:40 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-08-96 Gordon Birrel - you said a colleague of yours specializes in memory - does that make you a cognitive psychologist too? I have a special fondness for cognitive psychologists. Used to be, all the adults I knew were either granparents, kindergarten teachers, or cognitive psychologists. (or so I thought!) NEWS FLASH! NEWS FLASH! "OZ KIDS" HAS BEEN DUBBED INTO HEBREW! ***********************Spoiler for episode 2 of "Oz Kids"************ The Oz Kids travel to the U.S.A. by hot air balloon. Toto2 is kidnapped by juvenile delinquents. Little Dot tries to keep Andrea from using her magic wand, to no avail. Oz Kids meet a homeless man called Rick, and together they chase the dognappers all the way up to the Statue of Liberty's torch. Weird. *************************end spoiler********************************* Enjoy the Winkie Convention all of ye whom planneth to attend, and know ye that I wish I were there tool... Gili |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 10:05:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-08-96 > From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest > > Well, we've scheduled two reissues with the original H.R. Millar b&w > illustrations for this fall - "The Magic City" and "Wet Magic". And sometime in > the next year or two, Paul Zelinsky has promised to deliver his full color art > for "Five Children and It" - the first of the three books in that series which he > will be illustrating in color for our "Books of Wonder Classics" series. HUZZAH! > From: "< Badger >" > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-96 > [re: The Book of Records] > I thought it had a search engine. Unless I'm remembering only from an > OZIANA short story, can't you request the book to show you "all references" > to a specific person or subject, and it goes to that page? I don't recall anything like that in the FF. Karyl and I have Glinda enchant the book for a short time so that the word "Oogaboo" glows, to aid Shaggy's search for information, but that's not canonical. Besides, that's Glinda acting upon it, it's not an inherant part of the Book itself. > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Thank you all for the info on Gray and Eager. I shall seek locally. > > Eric - There is an easy explanation. You stated your belief about Eureka's > origin. In response to you, I stated mine. You're too touchy. But you MIS-stated my possibility, and are now stating it as a belief. I don't necessarily believe it, I'm just tossing it out as a possible alternative. And seeing as how this has happened to me a number of times, yes, I'm touchy about it. Wanna step outside and make something of it ? > I see Eric - anyone over 30 is "settling into old-fuddy-duddy-ism." Well, compared to what I USED to be... (C'mon, admit it, you must have had some teacher who everyone thought was REALLY, REALLY old -- only to find out years later that they were only thirty-five or so, which in hindsight doesn't seem so old, since you were almost that age yourself at the time...) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > OZ CLUB: > Has the Oz club changed its E-mail and Web addresses? I noticed > some yesterday mentioned an "ozclub.org" address...Can someone give me > the new E-mail/URL addresses for the club? Jim Vander Noot, if you're reading this (and haven't already left for Winkies), this would come under your jurisdiction, seeing as how you're the one maintaining the Club's website and mailbox... More Oz TV: Wouldn't you know, this morning on "Nickelodeon" they did the "Wizard of Ooze" episode. Too bad it was too far along, else I would have shoved my tape in and hit "Record." --Eric "Three more days before I go to Winkies!" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Monday 08-Jul-96 11:49:43 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: So important that I'm speaking to you today from the *middle* of the Digest! :) The following message from Chris D. is part of a private discussion regarding my book between me and him that he has apparently chosen to make into a public issue on the Digest. I don't fully approve of his doing this, partly because it should be between me and him and partly because I don't think he should be "polling" the members of this Digest in order to decide whether to accept or reject something in my book. But since he's done it (and since I've now grown *very uncomfortable* with censorship of people on the Digest), here it is. I will have more to say *after* his post, but I will say right now that he is misrepresenting me by saying that I use "a lot of weird, unfamiliar names for familiar people and places". I am only proposing a new name for *one* place by calling the Ozian continent "Baumgea" (which many of you know about); and I have my own "nicknames" for the Adepts. Everything else in my book is 100% FF-compliant. As I say, I say more below, after Chris' message... ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 15:10:47 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for digest Okay, so does anyone know the name of the golden-haired adept? How about the brown-haired one? Or the silver-haired one? Hmmm ;-). I think I'll let you all post your opinions before I make any bold demands of Dave. I do not want to seem petty. His book is excellent, but he does use a lot of weird, unfamiliar names for familiar people and places. Though, to use his own example, he did NOT change Ozma's name to Andrea. Still, it seems to me that it would be preferable to use the familiar, established names rather than create a reason for everyone having changed them. Am I being petty? In no way do I consider the FF to be gospel, but I don't see why we should boldly announce that Baum was altogether wrong about everybody's name, either. Again, the book is well worth reading regardless of what we do to the names. I just wanted to get the overall reaction from everyone. I figure you've got a week to post your opinion, and I can see them all next week after Winkie. Lawyers have already infiltrated Oz. Well, one has, anyway. See Gil S. Joel's The Case of the Framed Fairy in Oz. Perry Mason has to defend Ozma, who has been accused of practicing black magic. I do not think Gil plans anything with Rumpole, though, so have at it. Well, this will be my last post for a time. See you all at Winkies. ====================================================================== Date: Monday 08-Jul-96 11:49:43 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: The naming of Adepts is a difficult matter; It isn't just one of your holiday games... :) :) :) Okay, in response to Chris: >Okay, so does anyone know the name of the golden-haired adept? How about the >brown-haired one? Or the silver-haired one? Hmmm ;-). This is unfair because of course anyone here on the Digest can just pick up _Glinda_ and get the right answer. But my point to Chris was that not many people know *off the tops of their heads* what Baum's three names for the Adepts were, and even fewer know which name corresponds with which Adept. > ... he did NOT change Ozma's name to Andrea. He makes it sound like Ozma is the one person whose name I *didn't* change! Again, this is a misrepresentation. No established characters' or places' names are changed besides the Adepts and the Continent. > ... it would be preferable to use the familiar, established names... My arguement is that the Adepts -- having appeared prior to my book only for a few pages near the end of one book -- are NOT "familiar" and are only just barely "established". My whole motivation in giving the Adepts more distinct names (which as it is still resembles Baum's names by still all beginning with "Au" and ending with "ah") is to reflect the distinct personalities I've endowed the three girls with. As for the Continent, if "Continent of Imagination" is such a "familiar and established" name, then why doesn't it say "Continent of Imagination" at the top of the IWOC map of "The Magical Countries Surrounding Oz". > ... but I don't see why we should boldly announce that Baum was > altogether wrong about everybody's name... Again, he's trying to assert that I am throwing out Baum and rebuilding Oz from scratch. THIS IS *NOT* THE CASE!!! >Again, the book is well worth reading regardless of what we do to the names. So why, Chris, are you making such a big thing about the names (again, of a place without a well-known formal name, and of three characters who were languishing in near-forgotten obscurity on the remote peak of Mount Flathead until I came along!)? If you really want an explanation in my text to why the Adepts have different names, I certainly have some on hand...If you don't think my initial theory that Baum's are the Adepts' formal names whereas my names are informal nicknames is sufficient, then maybe something happened like at some point perhaps the Adepts inadvertantly ingested the Fountain of Oblivion and they forgot their original names. ( Far-fetched you say...? It's the explaination given for Roquat's name changing to "Ruggedo"! :) ) BTW, Chris, I *don't* think you're "petty"! I'm very grateful for your support and your willingness to publish my book. And I respect your point of view. The only thing that bothers me a little is your misrepresenting me publically by implying that I am out to change *MANY MAJOR THINGS* about Baum's Oz. That makes me feel that you don't entirely respect *MY* opinion. -- Dave ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 12:42:56 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest replies Dave-- I suppose those in the EC wearing nothing at all were, Toto, Billina, Lion, and company. . . Childhood Memories-- I know, it's not Ozzy, but when I was little, I asked my mom when a minute would be up, and she told me when the clock hit the nine again. Throughout elementary school, I took this to mean that a minute *never* clicked over until the second hand went past the nine. Eureka-- IIRC, if only from the many plays and myths that I read, the correct pronounciation would be something like "yoo-reh-kah" not "yoo-ree-kah" as it should be pronounced as phonetically as possible. Here is another question-- What is the state of education in Oz? The reasons I'm asking this is that 1) the Wogglebug's Athletic College wasn't the first school, obviously, 2) it's distinguished from other "temples of Learning" as far into Baum's 14 as MAGIC (which I just read through e-text) Also, number 3) In a story I'm writing (actually, re-writing now!) I have Dorothy want to go back to school. Any feelings on this subject? Back to work, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 15:24:28 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-08-96 Eric Gjovaag: >For those who don't know, the Little Wizard Stories, to give >it's correct title, are being released on videotape in the United >States next month. (At least, that was the last I heard...) Well, things have changed since you last heard, Eric. The current schedule calls for the first five tapes to be released this October and the remaining four next spring. Each tape has a complete story arc consisting of three or four episodes. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 22:32:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy DIgest Ok, 5 digests to respond to! Here we go... :-) Bear: I meant to write that Glinda reinforced the area near the old tunnel, just in case the Nomes tried something. That was why there was a barrier there and not elsewhere. Aaron: It is not definite that Gingemma ruled the entire Munchkin country. In _Ojo_, it is clear that a certain family ruled the southern portion, and in _Giant Horse_, it is implied that Cheeriobed's father ruled a sizeable chunk of the northern part. It is possible that, like many kings of our own world, the withces claimed to rule territory that they did not actually control. I believe that the reason most writers dis on Bastinda and Mombi is that the East Witch did not come into the story much, thus we did not get to meet her and know her like the others. Mike T: The 100 list was published a few weeks ago in TV Guide. It was on the cover, so you can't miss it. Sorry, but I don't have the effort to write the whole thing. David: Well, I haven't thought of a way to reconcile the history on Nimmie Aimee based on _Wizard_ and _Tin Woodman_, but it should not be too hard. possibles: Steve and spamming Ken and Dorothy beating Eureka Bear: Since you are a CompuServer, all mail you send goes first to our main network in Columbus. From there, it gets routed to the main server of whichever service controls the destination. In this case, I don't know where Delphi is located. Dave then logs on and downloads his e-mail from Delphi's network to his hard drive. Badger: If the OZIANA story had a search engine for the Great Book, then that was the only place. In FF and non-FF books, you had to search the whole thing, or wait for words of wisdom to appear. Gordon: The word "Gale" also appears on Uncle Henry's mailbox. Mrs. Gulch addresses him as "Mr. Gale" and Dorothy introduces herself as "Dorothy Gale of Kansas" when in Oz. Nowhere in the FF is this confirmed. On the Magic Belt: Somebody (was it Steve Teller?) wrote a story in which a group of Ozzies were at a convention discussing the fact that the Belt was just too powerful. One of them gets the idea of going to Oz and using the belt to wish that it had never been invented. He goes back to the convention, where he is taking part in a discussion that Ozma's wand is just too powerful... Dick Randolph: I'm glad that you liked Pattrick's essays, including the annotations by Maund. This was the collection that really got me started on my main field of interest: Pre-Dorothean history. Danny: There does not seem to be much of an actual government in Oz, due to the realtively low population and the extremely well-behaved nature of the majority. People (commoners and royalty) simply live from day to day. One reason for this is that Ozma (and the rest of the people living in the palace) do not need tax revenue to support themsevles. Ozma simply creates whatever they need and common people are proud to serve the celebrities in such capacities as cooks, servants, gardeners and so on. The Frogman is a respected citizen of the Yips, although I doubt that they have a ruler. He is just another one of Ozma councillors, a rather informal title. Most of the mechanics of government (what little there is) seems to be carried out on a local level, and probably involves little more than settling disputes between people. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 21:25:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim VanderNoot Subject: Domain Alias for Oz Club WWW (ozclub.org) Greetings! The Oz Club received its domain of "ozclub.org" from the NIC last Monday (7/1). The domain is currently used as an alias, so that the old URL will work, as will the old e-mail addresses. However, the new URL is: www.ozclub.org/~iwoc Later on we'd like to go with a virtual server URL so that we can drop the /~iwoc, but at the present time the budget does not permit. The e-mail addresses are: info@ozclub.org for general information survey@ozclub.org for responses to the Special Publications Survey, and oztp@ozclub.org for submitting adds to the Oz Trading Post. Jim ------------------------------------- Jim Vander Noot E-mail: jvandern@sam.neosoft.com Date: 7/8/96 Time: 9:25:27 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 09-Jul-96 01:35:54 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DINOSAURS: Yes, Aaron, I know birds are living dinosaurs...I just inserted that plug #14747 for my book :) for the benefit of those who use the word "dinosaur" to mean "non-avian dinosaurs"... :) MAGIC BELT: I wouldn't care to go back in time and prevent the Magic Belt from ever existing...I'm afraid we might come back the present and find the Oz people goose-stepping and extending their arms at a 45-degree angle and saying, "Heil Ruggedo!" THE WITCH OF THE EAST: Seems to me that the fact that Gingemma is the least known of the witches is all the more reason to write about her -- That's why I wanted to write about the Adepts! ( And then defend my depiction of them to the Digest! :) ) Hoping you don't all think now that I'm an arrogant a--h-le, -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 10, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:07:27 -0500 From: boyle@peabody.jhu.edu (McGregor Boyle) Subject: Thanks and questions Greetings from an infrequent OD poster! My son, Mac is an almost-seven-year-old Oz fanatic who has most of the FF and has read them all _many_ times. I wanted to thank you all for the advice I received as to which of the later FF could be read out of sequence- I read "Handy Mandy" to him last month, and we both loved it. Now, I'm thrilled that the IWOC has finally sent us "Speedy" and "Wishing Horse," so we're set for a while. Two questions for the experts: 1) I was given the impression that "Silver Princess" was no longer available from the IWOC. Does anyone know if this is true? Grrrr.....I thought my troubles were over once I had found "Ojo"...... 2) I also have found "Giant Garden" and "Masquerade." Do either of these depend on a knowledge of later (post-Wishing Horse) FF books? thanks, greg ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 22:49:05 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-08-96 Dave Hardenbrook wrote: ... >down the streets of the Emerald City, I saw some people in modern dress, some >in Medieval dress, some in Victorian dress, some in Grecian dress, some >in Jane-Austen-Era dress, and *a few* wearing nothing at all! ;) I'd be surprised if they were wearing nothing; I can't recall seeing an Ozian wearing naught but a smile, since the fashion dictates at least a stylish bow, if not a pair of spectacular spectacles. (Now I'm really looking forward to the Winkies Costume Parade this year; Gen and I have nothing to wear!) Ken Cope ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 06:31:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-96 > From: Nathan Faut > Subject: Composer for Marvelous Land of Oz > > The following URL _might_ be of interest to some of you: > http://www.mnonline.org/wobegon/onstage/aphccast.htm > At the bottom, Rich Dworsky is credited as composer for the > musical, The Marvelous Land of Oz. Anybody got more information > than that? I suspect this refers to the Minneapolis Children's Theater's production of the early 80's, which was released on videotape. Not bad, actually. This is unusual, I'm quoting MYSELF: > From: Eric Gjovaag > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-08-96 > > More Oz TV: Wouldn't you know, this morning on "Nickelodeon" they did the > "Wizard of Ooze" episode. Too bad it was too far along, else I would have > shoved my tape in and hit "Record." But I DID get enough advance warning and was able to tape "Jeopardy!" last night -- or at least all five answers/questions in their category, "The Wizard of Oz." Surprisingly, almost nothing directly related to the movie! > From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-08-96 > > Eric Gjovaag: > >For those who don't know, the Little Wizard Stories, to give > >it's correct title, are being released on videotape in the United > >States next month. (At least, that was the last I heard...) > > Well, things have changed since you last heard, Eric. The current > schedule calls for the first five tapes to be released this October and > the remaining four next spring. Each tape has a complete story arc > consisting of three or four episodes. Good, I may actually have money to buy them with by then... > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy DIgest > > David: > Well, I haven't thought of a way to reconcile the history on Nimmie Aimee > based on _Wizard_ and _Tin Woodman_, but it should not be too hard. MOPPeT (well, somebody else's, I'm not sure who, but I'll nick it here) is that the Tin Woodman at the time of "The Wizard of Oz" didn't realize that the old woman Nimmee Amee WAS the Wicked Witch of the West, but by the time of "Tin Woodman" he had learned this. (BTW, curious note, Nick Chopper's ex's name is spelled Nimmie Amee in "Tin Woodman," but Jack Snow in "Who's Who" -- and now Tyler -- spell it "Nimmie Aimee." ) > Gordon: > The word "Gale" also appears on Uncle Henry's mailbox. Mrs. Gulch addresses > him as "Mr. Gale" and Dorothy introduces herself as "Dorothy Gale of Kansas" > when in Oz. Nowhere in the FF is this confirmed. Er, what does "Dorothy Gale of Kansas" have to do with the question of Uncle Henry and Aunt Em's last name? (This latter statement is confirmed a number of times in the FF, the first time Dorothy uses her last name is in "Ozma of Oz.") I'm very confused by this... > The Frogman is a respected citizen of the Yips, although I doubt that they > have a ruler. He is just another one of Ozma councillors, a rather informal > title. Not that we've seen anything of the Frogman since "Glinda"... > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > Hoping you don't all think now that I'm an arrogant a--h-le, Not at all. Remember, Chris has broadcast parts of my private conversation with him publicly in the Digest as well. If I get a chance, perhaps I should take him aside at Winkies and give him a serious talking to and finger wagging... --Eric "What? Me? Spare time at a Winkie Convention???" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:13:07 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: Oz matters Nathan Faut: "The Marvelous Land of Oz" was a musical that very closely followed LFB's book, produced by the Minneapolis Children's Theatre. It has been available on videotape, and the costuming and makeup are remarkable. The songs are mostly non-memorable, except for a delightful duel between the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman as the reminisce about the good old days. Aaron: Birds are *not* dinosaurs, although they may be descended from them. It would be as true to say that human beings are the primative shrew-like mammals that lived in the Mesozoic Era. Tyler: Yes, it was I who wrote: "The Trouble with the Majic Belt," but it has not been published (Hint, Robin!). Sterl Nephel did not wish the belt had not been invented, he wished that it would lose all its powers and that memory of it would be wiped from *everuone's* memories. On Ozian Government: The Land of Oz, according to THE EMERALD CITY, is a communistic state ruled by a benevolent totalitarian monarch. A notable essay entitled "The Red Wizard of Oz" (unfortunatedly I cannot now recall the author or publication information) explained that that was the reason why the Oz books were unpopular with the "powers that be." ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 13:29:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Before I start, I had a weird paragraph in yesterday's post that said possibles: Steve and Spamming Ken and Dorothy beating Eureka. Due to the fact that I had five digests to respond to, I left some notes for myself. I was going to respond to these topics if nobody else did, and I forgot to take them out. Unfortunately, that last sentence implies that Ken and Dorothy are teaming up to beat poor Eureka! :-) Eric: When I was in the second grade, I met someone who told me he was in the 10th grade! Wow! That sure was old! He must be 15 or 16! :-) Danny: The state of education in Oz is relatively unknown. There was a school in _Land_, where the Wogglebug got his start. The royal college seems to have at most a few hundred students. One of the reasons that we do not know too much about this topic is that we rarely glimpse the common people of Oz, a topic that either Eric or I brought up a while ago. As for Dorothy going to school, she could easily take some of the education pills that the WIzard invented. March Laumer had her go to the Royal College and get a degree in something-or-other. Perhaps Steve Teller can tell us what her degree was in, because I forgot. Of course, all these "other temples of learning" do not necessarily have to be located in Oz. Perhaps the Wogglebug feels that his college is superior to Rinkitink U. By the way, the HACC is not done and my page is not updated. Due to certain circumstances, this has been postponed indefinitely. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 15:50:48 -0400 From: homer Aaron- Uh, Dave is right. Dinosaurs ARE dead. I respect the THEORY of them evolving into birds, but they are evolved now. The dinosaurs that the birds came from are not around. The birds are. A butterfly is not a caterpillar. A flower is not a seed. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 16:30:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" To: Dave Hardenbrook 1) Come to think of it-- Kabumpo: Don't you dare leak that! 2) On multiple names for people: There's no reason why people in Oz can't have several names. For example, in _Queen Zixi of Ix_, Zixi is mentioned to have several names, though the only alternate one mentioned there is Adlena. Barry suspects having many names may be relatively common for magic workers, theorizing that alternate names may come into use as euphemisms, non-magic-workers superstitiously fearing that magic-workers will "get them" if they speak their names, leading to Baum never reporting the names of three of the four wicked witches because his informants may never have heard them. 3) David and Tyler, the Tin Woodman seems not to remember his own story very well. Notice that the order of which parts he had replaced changes between tellings of the story of how he became tin. Perhaps his memory was never very good since he lost his original head. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 18:05:29 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Dave's book Dave: - The contents of your manuscript are nobody's business but yours. If Chris, as your publisher, has a problem with it, it should be worked out between the two of you. Chris: - How can you expect any of us to comment on names in Dave's book when none of us have read it?? (BTW, in GLINDA, only the *golden-haired* Adept is identified by name. Which of the other two has brown hair or silver hair isn't mentioned.) Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 19:54:07 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Of Oz & Eager & Kittens & Puppies Hi everyone! Just got back from the San Diego (Comic) Con so haven't been able to post yet, and I've still read only the first four of the eight Ozzy Digests that have accumulated. I did, however, manage to pick up OZ-STORY #2 and learn a bit about the matters others here are discussing. "Abby" does indeed shed some fascinating light on Tom and Twink (disappointing only because she never gets to Oz again, at least not in that story...is Shanower playing more?) Plus fascinating material by other Oz creators (I think Rachel Cosgrove Payes was the only one not represented, since "Abby" certainly gave Snow a presence at least). True, John R. Neill's was closer to "The Mr. Bill Show" than anything connected with Oz, but that unfortunate character looked incredibly like a tiny Tin Woodman! David Hulan wrote: <<(None of the Oz villains ever seem to have done any permanent damage to anyone, except for Kings Phearce and Krewl, Mooj, and whoever [apparently Mombi, but I'm not sure of that] disposed of Cheeriobed's and Pastoria's fathers.)>> Well, Roquat/Ruggedo treated some people equally lethally, like the Nomes he had sliced up and fed to his dogs. On the other hand, they were his own subjects, not Ozma's... <> Well, I've not always been as careful as you. I've been wearing contact lenses since 1989, and glasses since around 1961 (I was 7). I usually try to have spare pairs of contacts, but they can disappear or be used up fast. I also have an old pair of glasses dating back to around 1986 that I wear if I want to read with the contacts out--it's an old prescription, but now I find it's much better for reading fine print (with the contacts, I have to hold the book several feet away), whereas the contacts give me great distance vision (signs while driving, which are blurred if I wear the glasses). Maybe I'm old enough for bifocals?? I can't be, I keep telling myself... But even when I first saw the episode, I wondered why he couldn't grope his way to an optician or optometrist...surely at least enough lenses would be unbroken for him to approximate his prescription. (Possibly the original story would've worked better, if the bomb had devastated the whole world except his bunker--but on the TV show many things were undamaged, and he got the books from the library. A neutron bomb, maybe, even if such things weren't in existence when the show was made.) At the very least, I wondered, why couldn't he do what I do on the rare occasion neither contacts NOR glasses are available (the last time was when I fell on the way to work many years ago and broke my glasses...there were no spares, nor any way of driving home without them). Simply hold the books an inch or so from his eyes, so even he could focus. <> Maybe Nick didn't know at first, and later found out? (After all, the Emperor of the Winkies would have more access to information, even in a different Ozian country, than a simple woodcutter. Possibly Glinda let him look her up in the Book of Records during one of his visits?) <> You're definitely right. I used to own a copy, which I picked up for 25 cents in a library sale...actually, it was your own mention of Gray that led me to buy it, and I greatly enjoyed it. I've since sold it to another friend who liked it even more than I did (for more, not much more), and it's still the only Gray I've read, but I did like it! <<[Edward Eager's books] come in four batches - HALF MAGIC and MAGIC BY THE LAKE, which are successive adventures of the same family (set in the late '30s); KNIGHT'S CASTLE and THE TIME GARDEN, which are successive adventures of the children of the family of the first two books (set in the late '50s); MAGIC OR NOT? and THE WELL-WISHERS, which are unconnected to the other books and the weakest of his books; and SEVEN-DAY MAGIC, which is my personal favorite, unconnected to the other books, and has an Oz connection.>> Not much I can add, though at times Eager seems almost condescending toward Oz. The biggest Oz fan in the group is the youngest child; the others prefer Eager's idol, E. Nesbit. (Indeed, Eager's almost groveling admiration for Nesbit, though not at all underserved, sometimes becomes a bit too extreme. I know exactly where he was coming from, with my similarly intense admiration for another British children's fantasist (Diana Wynne Jones, who, as Nesbit with Eager, I discovered in adulthood and was ecstatic to visit in person) that got so extreme that she jokingly but meaningly threatened to kill me if I ever repeated the sort of a**-kissing tribute Eager did with Nesbit.) When she wants to read from an Oz book, the older Nesbit fans (none older than 11 or 12) see it as "bringing them back to their own carefree, innocent childhood." (Which doesn't even fit his previous characterization, because he'd earlier said that two of the kids had only been reading fantasies at all for a few months.) Still, that same conversation also contains probably Eager's own most telling self-criticism...when another kid excitedly opens a book called THE MAGIC DOOR and finds to his shock and disgust that there's no actual magic in the story. I'm sure Eager realized that the boy could just as easily have been reading his own MAGIC OR NOT? or THE WELL-WISHERS.) And I suspect he would've given those children another magical adventure (as he did for the other three groups) if he'd lived longer. Tyler Jones wrote: <> So what else is new? The pig belonged to the *Queen* of Oz! I recently read of a real-life case where some teenage boys tortured and killed a cat, and were punished by being taken off the high school football team...and some people in their town thought even *that* was too harsh. I'm sure the'd have gotten *much* worse if they'd done the same to Socks... Gili Bar-Hillel wrote: <> As I said, I'm still behind a few days, but has anyone mentioned Snagglepuss on the '60's cartoon show QUICK-DRAW McGRAW? He was a mountain lion whose voice (provided by Daws Butler, Hanna-Barbera's counterpart to Warner Bros.' Mel Blanc) was clearly derived from Bert Lahr's characterization of the Cowardly Lion (and close enough so Lahr threatened a lawsuit). Kenneth Shepherd wrote: <> As has been mentioned, this was a time when corporal punishment (of both children and pets) was much more accepted and prevalent than it is now. Knowing Dorothy, I doubt she hit her either very hard or at all often. Richard Baumann wrote: <> Well, I remember reading THE GLASS SLIPPER, a retelling of the Cinderella story by (I think) Eleanor Farjeon, in which Araminta was the name of one of Ella's two stepsisters (the other being Arethusa). The names stuck in my mind as appropriate, if noncanonical, for the generally-unnamed sisters (not unlike Bastinada and Gingemma...) Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> To which Eric Gjovaag replied: <> Very true! As mentioned, Eric studied at the art school run by Joe Kubert, an artist whose work, at least the vast majority, was at DC. (Although, ironically enough, his two sons Adam and Andy have done the vast majority of their work for Marvel, including the currently popular X-MEN title.) Shanower's work strikes me as so much in the classic DC tradition (with elements of Murphy Anderson and the recently-deceased Superman artist, Curt Swan) that he even seems out of place on the DC books that try to get more of the Marvel (or, far worse, Image...a new and highly steroidal publisher) style into them. On the back of OZ-STORY MAGAZINE #2, he draws several scenes in the styles of other artists, including the man who literally set the style for Marvel Comics, Jack Kirby. Alas, with the Image style running rampant in the field, most current Marvel titles look no more like Kirby than most current DC titles look like Swan. Little wonder Eric found other things to do...and do very well! Kenneth Shepherd wrote: <> PINOCCHIO probably isn't (the book is over 100 years old and in public domain), but 101 DALMATIANS definitely *is* a Disney project. And actually, in the original book, Perdita wasn't Pongo's mate, as she is in the movie. Original writer Dodie Smith realized that a litter of 15 puppies of any breed is simply too much for one mother to nurse, so when Pongo's mate (whose original name was Missis) ran out of milk, the dogs' owners were fortunate enough to find another Dalmatian who's been lost (hence the name Perdita) and had recently nursed a litter. If memory serves, her own puppies were reunited with her since they ended up among those rescued from Cruella, as was their sire, a liver-spotted Dalmatian named Prince. Speaking of which, my own dog (a Welsh Springer Spaniel named Jenny) is about to have puppies, and her co-owner and I are running all over the place to get supplies, make her comfortable, and everything else. So I'd best wrap this up and get on line, and *hope* I'll find time to catch up in another few days... Rich Morrissey (hoping Jenny doesn't have 15 puppies too...) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 18:10:54 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Government in Oz-- Tyler, sorry if I needed to give everybody in the EC a job in government. FWIW, I do infer in my readings (and imply in my stories) that Ozma does indeed have a lot to do as ruler, even of a wonderful fairyland, and I just wondered if she had some help. I always took the "communistic" elements of EC (the book) to logical extremes, having the Emerald City be the center of collection and distribution of wealth and labor for the entire land of Oz. I never thought how easy it would be to create and place these things wherever needed by means of the magic belt, among other things. . . Perhaps it needn't be TOO hard to run a fairyland after all. Danny ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 21:10:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Query - Are any of you, or do any of you know, a dentist from Silicon Valley, possibly Belmont or San Mateo, who developed a world class Oz collection about 15 years ago? Herm - I have not had an insurance loss. I was just seeking some anecdotal evidence for general interest. I don't feel comfortable about intruding on IWOC Vice President Warren Hollister who probably still feels his loss sharply. Scott - I have this vision of you showing a dealer a guide and telling him his book is overpriced. Snicker. Good luck. Maybe Robin and Herm will give you some feedback on that. By the way, a price in a used book is just a price. If you think you know a "fair" price, make an offer. What have you got to loose? I have purchased a number of books at less than the posted price. Dick - Sorry, my parents raised me to address anyone older than me as Mr. As you are the only one on the Digest who fits that description..... (except maybe David :)) By the way, my name is also Richard (Dick) but please don't call me that. One Dick on the Digest keeps things simple. Eric - When I was in grade school ALL of the teachers were old women! I mean many of them had white hair! In the 7th and 8th grade we had a couple of veterans (men) return from WW2. They were the youngest teachers in the school. Dave - I gather Chris is your editor? This exchange doesn't seem to be appropriate for the Digest. I think you should make him the "second censored." :) :) By the way, I just received "Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz," which I read in 10 minutes. Sigh. It doesn't seem like anyone edited it. It is full of obvious and unobvious errors. However, it is probably worth the $10 for the novelty and the art work. Was it hand-colored? Danny - Childhood Memories - See, you can never trust adults! :) Dorothy is living in Oz. Why under the sun would she want to go back to school? You're going to need some spectacular motivation there. :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 21:25:16 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> writes: > Of course, if destroying the Belt seems too drastic, one could also have > the Oz characters lose the Magic Belt, be forced to do without it for > several sequels, and then find it again. : ) :) Actually, someone tried to use it to move a palm tree away from a flower bed in the courtyard. Not only did the tree not move, but the belt was found to be so completely drained that it would take years to recharge. That is why it couldn't be used to repel the latest attempt to conquer Oz. (There's something mighty strange about that palm tree, I wonder what it is? :-) -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 19:25:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim VanderNoot Subject: Howdy, Winkies! For those of you who plan to attend the upcoming convention, the Oz Club web site would love to post some exciting, detailed, first-hand accounts. Photos would be nice to, even if they show up a little after the fact. And whenever we have a firm commitment on venues, chairmen, themes, and dates for the 1997 conventions... well, it's never to early! I look forward to hearing from you. Jim ------------------------------------- Jim Vander Noot E-mail: jvandern@sam.neosoft.com Date: 7/9/96 Time: 7:25:57 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 09-Jul-96 22:19:43 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things JEOPARDY: Eric wrote: >But I DID get enough advance warning and was able to tape "Jeopardy!" last >night -- or at least all five answers/questions in their category, "The >Wizard of Oz." Could you post the questions? LITTLE OZ STORIES: Peter G. wrote: > Well, things have changed since you last heard, Eric. The current > schedule calls for the first five tapes to be released this October and > the remaining four next spring. I was afraid it was too good to be true that they would bring _Little Wizard Stories_ out the same month as the new _Aladdin_! :) PRIVATE MESSAGES: Eric wrote: >> [Me:] Hoping you don't all think now that I'm an arrogant a--h-le, >[Eric:] Not at all. Remember, Chris has broadcast parts of my private >conversation with him publicly in the Digest as well. Thanks for your support, Eric! As I said in my "special message" today, I made a misjudgement in letting Chris make a private issue public, and because of this, I have edited out anything in today's messages regarding the "Names in My Book" issue (except for a few comments about the inappropriateness of the issue for the Digest). I think I've said it before, but I'll take this oppertunity it repeat it: Please, folks, don't reply to a private message publically on the Digest! Make your reply private as well. And Thanks to everyone who E-mailed me privately expressing their support! It means a lot to me! DINOSAURS: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu ( Steve T.??? -- I like that idea now of each of us putting our names at the top of our messages! :) ) wrote: >Birds are *not* dinosaurs, although they may be descended from them. >It would be as true to say that human beings are the primative >shrew-like mammals that lived in the Mesozoic Era. I'd just point out that not all scientests agree with this. The rebutting argument that is made by dinosaur-philes like Robert T. Bakker, etc. to what you say here is that birds have dinosaurian traits onto which are simply imposed specializations for flight, so that refusing to call birds "dinosaurs" makes no more sense than refusing to call bats "mammals"! But I respectfully suggest we take this worthy debate off of the Ozzy Digest and take it to the *Dinosaur* Digest (dinosaur@usc.edu)! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 11, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:58:50 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Eric, thanks for the response to the Oz Bib question. And in response to your question "BTW, how's Norway?"...... What a great place this is. I love the place and the people. Went across the mountains last week to the west coast city of Bergen (one of the original Hanseatic League cities). The countryside, fjiords, mountain villages, etc are picture postcard perfect. Have to be seen to believe. I sometimes feel like I have entered a modern day Oz Kingdom. The only drawback is that it is expensive beyond belief. Everything is at least twice the cost of the same thing back home. BTW...for the 4th of July the closest I could get to home was in a restaurant in Bergen named "Lousiana", listening to Cajun music and eating crayfish and jambalaya. The Norwegians around us (strangers all) somehow knew we were American and toasted us to a surprise "happy birthday." Such is the wonder of Norway. Robin O: ***"ignoramuses," which sounds like fireloving demigoddesses to me**** How whimsically marvelous. Thank you....made my day ;-) Bill Wright in "Ozlo" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:05:35 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-07-96 >>From: HermBieber@aol.com >>Subject: For Ozzy Digest << The new "Pinocchio" I'm not so sure about, but I do know that Martin Landau is playing Gepetto. >> Apparently it is strongly based (and/or more faithful) to the original book which is considerably darker than the Disney version. ========================== >From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) >Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest >Ozzy stuff, not necessarily related to anything previous-- >Are the heroes of Oz given any special duties, presumably as aides to >Ozma? I know that Dorothy is a Princess, Scarecrow was sort-or >Secretary of Treasury in LAND at least, and the Wizard is, well, the >Wizard. . . >Here are my suggestions if not. . . >Queen-- Ozma >Princess-- Dorothy (others?) ... > ... Secretary of the Interior-- Uncle Henry ... Wouldn't Uncle Henry be Secretary of Agriculture? ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:05:44 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-10-96 >>From: Eric Gjovaag >>Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-96 << I DID get enough advance warning and was able to tape "Jeopardy!" last night -- or at least all five answers/questions in their category, "The Wizard of Oz." Surprisingly, almost nothing directly related to the movie! >> D'oh! Wish I'd have known of that! What were the answers for the questions? ==================== >>From: Dave Hardenbrook >>Subject: Ozzy Things << refusing to call birds "dinosaurs" makes no more sense than refusing to call bats "mammals"! >> But of course, according to Calvin (of Hobbes fame), bats are bugs. -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Copywight 1996 Elmer Fudd. All wights wesewved." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:05:42 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-96 >>From: Tyler Jones >>Subject: Ozzy DIgest << If the OZIANA story had a search engine for the Great Book, then that was the only place. In FF and non-FF books, you had to search the whole thing, or wait for words of wisdom to appear. >> Considering the time involved, no *wonder* they're all immortal....! "Ten Years Later....." << On the Magic Belt: Somebody (was it Steve Teller?) wrote a story in which a group of Ozzies were at a convention discussing the fact that the Belt was just too powerful. One of them gets the idea of going to Oz and using the belt to wish that it had never been invented. He goes back to the convention, where he is taking part in a discussion that Ozma's wand is just too powerful... >> While this smacks of a Frederick Brown short story twist, it also harkens to when Tip wished he'd never swallowed the wishing pill, and it was back in his hand. ===================== >>From: Dave Hardenbrook >>Subject: Ozzy Things << MAGIC BELT: I wouldn't care to go back in time and prevent the Magic Belt from ever existing... I'm afraid we might come back the present and find the Oz people goose-stepping and extending their arms at a 45-degree angle and saying, "Heil Ruggedo!" >> At least, unlike the "goose stepping" Munchkins soldiers in the 1939 film, they might all be in step.... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:30:46 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: What have you Dave: You're forgiven! By the was, I am quite content to write no more about dinosaurs in the digest (except for Terrybubble). Tyler: On the subject of Education in Oz, I must once again refer readers to Phyllis Ann Karr's "The Eldritch Horror of Oz" as the narrator of that story was a long, long, LONG time scholar at Professor Wogglebug's institution. (He eventually was made part of the faculty). Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:47:26 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Scott: You are right in that a price guide might serve to reduce the outrageously high prices, but I'm more concerned that it would dry up the chances to find real bargains. Always remember that if no one pays the high asking price, and the book is still unsold, then pointing this out to the dealer may result in some price cutting. I once waited 11 years for a spectacular Daring Twins first, that the dealer refused to bargain on. Finally, the going price on the book caught up to her asking price. If she had sold it to me at what I offered the first year, and invested the money at 5%, she would have beeen way ahead! On crayon removal: Yes, it does work pretty well, but don't let the rubber cement get completely dry. Then when you rub it off, you may also take off much of the printing as well. On Thompson reprints in dj I sell these for $60 usually, the B&W reprints that is, with pictorial label. $45 for the B&W reprints in dj if there is no pictorial label on the book (the later "thin" editions). Maybe 10-15% more if the book and dj are in truly "as new" condition. Herm ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:51:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-10-96 First off, everyone, I'm going to TRY and get on tomorrow morning and answer the Digest before I go to Winkies (early flight to San Jose). But in case I don't, have a great weekend, and I'll see all your notes in the Digest Monday morning. > From: boyle@peabody.jhu.edu (McGregor Boyle) > Subject: Thanks and questions > > Two questions for the experts: > > 1) I was given the impression that "Silver Princess" was no longer > available from the IWOC. Does anyone know if this is true? Grrrr.....I > thought my troubles were over once I had found "Ojo"...... I'll look at the sales table at Winkies... > 2) I also have found "Giant Garden" and "Masquerade." Do either of these > depend on a knowledge of later (post-Wishing Horse) FF books? Most non-FF books, including these two, don't need much Ozian knowledge outside of Baum, because most of the characters and events in the post-Baum books are still under copyright, and thus can't be used without permission, which most writers don't even try to get (and some of the estates are very propietary). > From: Ken Cope > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-08-96 > > (Now I'm really looking forward to the Winkies Costume Parade this year; > Gen > and I have nothing to wear!) Great. I'm hosting the thing. How do I introduce THAT??? > From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu > Subject: Oz matters > > On Ozian Government: > The Land of Oz, according to THE EMERALD CITY, is a communistic state ruled > by a benevolent totalitarian monarch. A notable essay entitled "The Red > Wizard of Oz" (unfortunatedly I cannot now recall the author or publication > information) explained that that was the reason why the Oz books were > unpopular with the "powers that be." According to the bibliography in Michael Patrick Hearn's "The Wizard of Oz: The Critical Heritage Edition": Robb, Stewart. "The Red Wizard of Oz," /New Masses/, October 4, 1938, p. 8. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Before I start, I had a weird paragraph in yesterday's post that said > possibles: > Steve and Spamming > Ken and Dorothy beating Eureka. > > Due to the fact that I had five digests to respond to, I left some notes > for myself. I was going to respond to these topics if nobody else did, and > I forgot to take them out. Unfortunately, that last sentence implies that > Ken and Dorothy are teaming up to beat poor Eureka! :-) Something similar once happened to Douglas Adams during the creation of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy." An incident in one of the early episodes of the radio series reminded him of the Knights Who Say "Ni" in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" and their request for shrubbery, so Adams jotted down "shrubbery" in the margins. So imagine his surprise when he got the finished scripts back from the BBC typists with the stage direction (shrubbery) added after one line... > Eric: > When I was in the second grade, I met someone who told me he was in the 10th > grade! Wow! That sure was old! He must be 15 or 16! :-) What amazes me now as a substitute teacher is how YOUNG my middle school and high school students look. They never looked that young when *I* was that age! > From: DIXNAM@aol.com > Subject: Dave's book > > Chris: - How can you expect any of us to comment on names in Dave's book when > none of us have read it?? (BTW, in GLINDA, only the *golden-haired* Adept is > identified by name. Which of the other two has brown hair or silver hair > isn't mentioned.) In all honesty, this is all stuff that Dave has brought up here before, but before Chris ever subscribed. Of course, I wasn't wild about Dave (or any other authors) posting such details to the Digest then, and with good reason, it would appear. > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Query - Are any of you, or do any of you know, a dentist from Silicon Valley, > possibly Belmont or San Mateo, who developed a world class Oz collection about > 15 years ago? This is probably Dr. Richard "Dick" Rutter, a mainstay of Winkie conventions for as long as I've been going (tomorrow I'm off to my SEVENTEENTH!), who is also a big Sherlockian. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > JEOPARDY: > Eric wrote: > >But I DID get enough advance warning and was able to tape "Jeopardy!" last > >night -- or at least all five answers/questions in their category, "The > >Wizard of Oz." > > Could you post the questions? Oi, I just KNEW someone was going to ask this. But I'm too busy right now getting ready for Winkies to do it today, could you ask me again on Monday? (Or better yet, Tuesday.) --Eric "I'm off to see the Wizard..." Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:35:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Greg: I do not know the current status of _Silver Princess_, although I believe that Books of Wonder is planning a reprint, but _Masquerade_ requires no FF knowledge beyond _Scarecrow_. On the HACC, you will see that I have placed this book between _Scarecrow_ and _Rinkitink_. The most recent character is Trot, and no post-Baumian events are mentioned. Assuming that Mac has devoured as much of the FF as you say he has, I doubt that he will have any problems with any non-FF book, with the possible exception of _Wicked Witch_, which mentions some stuff from _Hidden Valley_. The same (or nearly the same) applies to _Giant Garden_. It takes place in the "present", but no post-Baumain events are mentioned. Eric: I'll second Dave's request for the five answers/responses. BTW, I guessed on the spelling of Nimmie Amee, and it seems reasonable that Nick may not have realized who the WW of the East was. On the name of "Gale", I wrote a very confusing paragraph. I meant that Uncle Henry and Aunt Em's last name was definitely Gale in the movie, but was not confirmed in the FF. Dorothy's last name is of course comfirmed constantly. The only place where the Frogman appeared post-Baum was in the March Laumer book _The Frogman of Oz_, where he is given the name Fredereick Fraukx. There is a rather grisly scene in there that I won't mention. Danny: EC as a central collection and redistribtution point may have been what Baum wanted. His Oz was mostly a rural place with very few towns and cities outside EC. As David Hulan once mentioned, even such "cities" as the Skeezers barely reached a population of 100. Any exces produced went to EC and if a community needed anything, they would report to EC to get it. My main point was that a large governmental apparatus where everyone has some kind of assignment is probably not the case in Oz. For example, as near as I can tell, there is no mayor of EC. Ozma presumably runs it directly. At the Ozian department of commerce, division of vehicle licensing: Farmer Brown: I'd like to transport food from the Munchkin Country to the Emerald City. Undersecretary Trot: Fine, sir. That will be 3 piozters for the filing fee. After you complete form 47001XJC-IQ01, your application will be sent to the interquadrential transportation authorization commitee. If they approve of your request, then your wagons will be authorized to carry good out of the Munchkin Country on YB-class roads. Now, if you want to carry your goods on roads that are not yellow brick... Bear: _Lurline and the White Ravens_ apparantly has some "errors" to do with Greek Mythology, but there are many conflicting stories out of there. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:58:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Rules of Magic in Oz I've been wondering--has anyone worked out the rules magic works by in Oz, something equivalent to the rules magic works by the Enchanter series? From what I remember, the laws of contagion and sympathy are never explicitly and I'm the only one who's ever written a spell involving name-dropping. (Yeah, sure, Eric, like this really gives away anything that happens in Lurline's Machine.) Spells seem to require 1) use of an enchanted object in a limited way (e.g., the Magic Belt, the Silence Stone), 2) use of a magic word in a limited context (e.g., Pyrzxgl), or 3) words in the Magic language with or without sprinkling and/or burning of special substances. But is there any relationship between the action and the result? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 21:56:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls On identities - Who is @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu with no other ID? Or is this one of those closet members? RichM - I don't know how holding the book an inch away would help (but I'm sure I'll find out.) The usual problem at your age and beyond is your arms shrink and you can't hold the book far enough away. :) Wishing I Was At Winkies - Sigh - Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:37:41 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-07-96 I'm no Hellenist, but I can give an approximation. The correct pronunciation of "Eureka" is a little tricky to write in English, although it is not particularly difficult for an Anglophone to pronounce. heh (as in heh-heh) -- (The sound we spell "h" is not written as a letter in Greek, but there is a mark to show that it's there) oor (as in poor) -- (or, according to some, "ure" as in French "aventure") e (as in leg) ca (as in Lake Titicaca) -- except that the "heh-oor" is slurred together in one syllable (or perhaps one-and-a-half syllables). For what it's worth, the same Greek word that gave us "Eureka" also gave us "heuristic". // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 10-Jul-96 20:24:11 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THE ARROW OF TIME IN OZ: Badger wrote: > ... it also harkens to when Tip wished he'd never swallowed the >wishing pill, and it was back in his hand. I always wondered if that wish actually went back and rearranged the time vectors so that Ozma/Tip actually *DIDN'T* ever swallow the pill (which brings in all sorts of ugly paradoxes), or if it just caused all the molecules that had been in the pill to re-assemble themselves, pass through the walls of Ozma/Tip's stomach, and set down in her/his hand... R. COSGROVE PAYES' BOOKS: Tyler wrote: >Assuming that Mac has devoured as much of the FF as you say he has, I >doubt that he will have any problems with any non-FF book, with the possible >exception of _Wicked Witch_, which mentions some stuff from _Hidden Valley_. I have never read _Hidden Valley_, but it did not lessen my enjoyment of _Wicked Witch_. NIMEE AMEE: IIRC, the error of spelling "Amme" as "Aimme" is repeated in _The Oz Scrapbook_. THE FROGMAN: Tyler wrote: >The only place where the Frogman appeared post-Baum was in the March Laumer >book _The Frogman of Oz_... He also appears in BoW's _Magic Dishpan of Oz_. _LURLINE_ AND THE LATE MARCUS MEBES: >_Lurline and the White Ravens_ apparantly has some "errors" to do with >Greek Mythology, but there are many conflicting stories out of there. Marcus Mebes said in his intro to _L. & White Ravens_ that the story is a myth, just like other Greek Myths, so that this book's placement on the HACC is questionable at best. (Another Mebes book that appears on the current HACC but that based on his own statements in the the intro does not seem to belong there is the Enya-alluding _Sail Away to Oz_.) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 12, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:08:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-11-06 Yes, I was wrong. THIS will be my final Digest until after Winkies... > From: "< Badger >" > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-07-96 > > >>From: Eric Gjovaag > >>Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-96 > << I DID get enough advance warning and was able to tape "Jeopardy!" last > night -- or at least all five answers/questions in their category, "The > Wizard of Oz." Surprisingly, almost nothing directly related to the movie! >> > > D'oh! Wish I'd have known of that! > What were the answers for the questions? As I told Dave, ask me again Monday or Tuesday. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > _Masquerade_ requires no > FF knowledge beyond _Scarecrow_. On the HACC, you will see that I have > placed this book between _Scarecrow_ and _Rinkitink_. The most recent > character is Trot, and no post-Baumian events are mentioned. No, the most recent character is Betsy Bobbin. Remember, Trot predates Betsy, having appeared in "The Sea Fairies" and "Sky Island." > Eric: > I'll second Dave's request for the five answers/responses. So noted... > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Rules of Magic in Oz > > I've been wondering--has anyone worked out the rules magic works by in > Oz, something equivalent to the rules magic works by the Enchanter > series? /me inserts cassette into player and presses PLAY. This is one of the areas covered by Robert R. Pattrick in his wonderful collection of essays, "Unexplored Territory in Oz," available from the International Wizard of Oz Club. It is a vital book for all true scholars of Ozian research to have in their collection. /me presses STOP and speaks to you all live now. And it's probably available through ILL. Try to get the annotated edition, Patrick Maund adds some terrific insight. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > NIMEE AMEE: > IIRC, the error of spelling "Amme" as "Aimme" is repeated in > _The Oz Scrapbook_. Well, this is all a relatively minor quibble, of course. Now, Snow misspelling the name of the Oz book of 1927 as "The Nome King of Oz," THAT is a big goof, IMHO. Or it would be, if he wasn't doing it deliberately... --Eric "Be good, I'll be back Monday" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:35:46 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Greg: According to the last inventory I saw, there MAY BE some softcover Silver Princess in the IWOC fulfillment warehouse, but probably not enough to list in the Club order form. There may also be VERY FEW of hard cover SPs around. I'll try to find out, but don't hold your breath. Herm ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:04:41 +22318332 (CDT) From: steller@mail.pittstate.edu (Stephen J. Teller) Subject: Oz Tyler: Thank you for not mentioning the abominable No-man. Bear: I am steller@pittstate.com, and am certainly not a closet member (athough I may occasionally send a message without signing it). @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu must be some sort of strange computer misusage. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:30:24 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest David Bedell: I have some of the books you want, but tour e-mail has been unanswered, and now rejected by AOL. Please contact me privately by e-mail at hermbieber@aol.com if you see this message. Herm ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 17:51:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Bizarre Errors in Oz Bear and Tyler, _Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz_ is bad Greek mythology because it is invalid for all versions of Greek mythology. Example 1: Greek mythology: Ganymede is a male mortal. _White Ravens_: Ganymede is a goddess. Example 2: Greek mythology: There is no goddess known as Lillith. _White Ravens_: Lillith is a fire goddess. (In fact, Lillith is a baby-killing daemon from Jewish legend.) Example 3: Greek mythology: The goddesses do not have their own association. _White Ravens_: The goddesses do have their own association. Need I go on? About the only god who was anywhere near in character was Apollo, who was portrayed as a letch. Besides, it's not even consistent with the FF; it has Pastoria's father Ozroar as the first king of Oz, which isn't very likely unless he lived for several hundred years BEFORE the Ozmatic era. Also: Tyler, you may quote my criticism in your BEOO page. I rate this book as a bomb. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 18:24:30 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff reply to 7/10/96: Bear: "They call me. . . *MR.* Bear!" Aaron: Ah, techno-babble! (or in this case, magic-babble) I think a more metaphysical anaylization into what exactly magic IS would help find out HOW it works, or more appropriately, how people get it to work for themselves. Has anything been said specifically about Oz? Some possibilities: 1) Most of the time, fantasy writers like to think of magic along similar lines to science (at least in the traditional "reductionist" philosophy) whereas nature exists according to physical "laws" A produces B, when introduced to X. Magic items (the Belt, etc.) and/or magic words or thoughts (Pyrxygl) and/or gesturess or inherent ability can produce the magical effect according to arcane physics. 2) Like the Force in Star Wars, magic exists everywhere, but maybe in different concentrations (ley lines, fairies, magically attuned items) Magic items can manipulate these "strings" of reality, or even learned discipline can do it. Sometimes, magic words or items can allow the magic user to focus on the manipulation. 3) In order to use Occam's razor (oh, sure NOW I use it!) Oz is a place where wishes come true in all forms. "Magic" is just the term used when wishes take effect. Some wishes are easy (made with the Pryxygl) and others are hard (Dr. Pipt making the wishing powder.) Sometimes land's wishes are granted. Deadly Desert: "I wish people wouldn't cross me" or a plant thinking "I wish predators didn't eat me all the time." The more powerful the wish, the more effort in making it come true. (Years of study, evolution, whatever) That enough anaylization for you all? I wish I was at Winkies. Hey, nothing happened! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 22:37:50 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-10-96 Actually, I seem to remember that there _was_ a serious proposal a few years ago to suppress the class Aves and make the birds a subclass of the recently-established class Dinosauria. It didn't pass, but there's some sense in it; the other classes in the superclass Tetrapoda are all comparably ancient, whereas the birds are far more recent. As to "why human?", we'll need some real, live aliens to compare with, but most of the things we have lost do seem unnecessary, and even a bit burdensome. (Would a tail not be a vulnerability in war? And why have fur _all_ the time, when we can have it some of the time?) Why not dinosaurs? That's a little rough, but since it now seems that the original dinosaurs were bipedal, the quadrupedal ones being a later return to an earlier state, I wonder whether the problem was not the loss of the possibility of an intermediate brachiating stage of evolution, which might be necessary (or at least _very_ convenient) to the development of proper hands.... By the way, "Master", are you the same one who did a "Babes in Toyland" in Livingston, NJ, mumblety-mumble years back? Back then we were "Willmore and Hellena" (or "Willmore the Rover") on CompuServe.... // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 11-Jul-96 22:27:17 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MORE ON _MASQUARADE_: Eric wrote: >No, the most recent character is Betsy Bobbin. Remember, Trot predates >Betsy, having appeared in "The Sea Fairies" and "Sky Island." I think Tyler means that Trot is the most recent as far as who comes to Oz last. Trot (and Cap'n Bill) are there, so _Masquarade_, must have happened *after* _Scarecrow_. MORE ON _LURLINE_ & W.R.: Aaron wrote: >Ganymede is a male mortal. Correct, even though Ganymede (like the other three namesakes of planet Jupiter's four big moons) had an affair Zeus/Jupiter. (Yes, folks, The king of the classical gods was--er...um...!!! :) :) :) ) >_White Ravens_: Ganymede is a goddess. Mebes probably saw in some astronomy book that all four of Jupiter's "Galilean" moons were named for lovers of the mythological Jupiter, and assumed that if Io, Europa and Callisto were gals, then Ganymede must be too. Well, um... :) > ... it has Pastoria's father Ozroar as the first king of Oz, which isn't very >likely unless he lived for several hundred years BEFORE ... I think it has been speculated (by Tyler?) that there are more than one Ozroar... > ... the Ozmatic era "Ozmatic" era??? There *must* be a better name... :) :) :) DINOSAURS: John K. wrote: >Actually, I seem to remember that there _was_ a serious proposal a >few years ago to suppress the class Aves and make the birds a subclass >of the recently-established class Dinosauria. Robert Bakker, Peter Galton, and others are *still* pushing the idea of Class Dinosauria with Aves as a subclass (or Class Archosauria with Dinosaurs, Birds, Pterodactyls, Crocodilians, and a host of weird primitive critters all as separate subclasses), even though the concept does not sit well with the extremely-slow-to-accept-change taxonomists. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 13, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 15:52:09 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-12-96 Eric - when you eventually get around to posting the "Jeopardy" questions - may I suggest that you not post the answers in the same digest, and give us a chance to test ourselves? Gee the digest is short today. Guess that's because so many people are at winkies... |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:28:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Eric: Just to be safe, I'll mention posting the Jeopardy answers/responses every day! :-) Aaron: There seems to be no hard and fast rules for the practice of magic, but that may be because we are not privy to the exact mechanics of magic. We only see the results. In other words, we see only the interface, not the wiring underneath. This area is a vast unknown, since the WIzard and Glinda aren't talking. Dave: It is possible that the wish caused the pill's molecules to be reassembled, since Tip still remembered swallowing the pill. If the timeframe had been unraveled, Tip would never have swallowed the thing at all, and would not remember it or the pain. Marcus once told me that _Sail Away_ was only someone's dream, so it may not belong on the HACC. Assuming _Lurline_ is a myth, it may still have some roots of truth. I am currently assuming that the essence of the story is true: Lurline enchanted Oz, met Ozroa, and told him of her plan to create a fairyland that he and his descendants were to rule. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:28:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest II This will be the second post that everybody reads today, since I forgot to send the last one yesterday. Eric: As Dave mentioned, I meant that Trot was more "recent" by virtue of having come to Oz after Betsy, although she did have adventures elsewhere in Baumgea. Also, even though you are now at Winkies, I will re-re-repeat my request for the questions/responses to the Jeopardy game, in order to remind everyone else on the digest that they will be posted in a few days. Eric and Aaron (and everybody else): Let me, for the billioninth time, repeat my strong support for _Unexplored Territory in Oz_, by Robert Pattrick, especially the one with the insightful annotations by Patrick Maund. This book is extremely useful and fun to read. It is very cheap, too, so there is no real need to ILL the thing. Aaron: Do you want me to copy your post as your actual review of _Lurline_, or do you want ot write a new one? As I mentioned before, I do accept negative reviews, but your post did not really read like a book review. Speaking of this, I have not yet received any reviews of BEOO or other books by people. Any takers? As Dave mentioned, Chris and I came up with the theory that there may have been more than one Ozroar in the ancestral line of Ozma. The Ozroar that we met in _Blue Emperor_ acts differently from the Ozroar that we meet in Mebes's book, and it is likely that the _Lurline_ Ozroar is the ultra-great grandfather of the _Blue Emperor_ Ozroar, perhaps 20 generations or so. On the "Ozmatic" Era (cough): In my paper _The Five Ages of Oz_, I refer to Ozma's regin as THE AGE OF LIGHT. I am rewriting this paper as one of my 47 Oz projects, and some of you will note that it has been downsized from _The SEVEN Ages of Oz_. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:11:11 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: OZ It is time for the Winkie convention, and here I am stuck in Pittsburg, Kansas advising entering Freshmen. TANJ! Stephen (the non attending) James (the non-attending the Munchkins either) Teller BTW, Fred Meyer is off IV antibiotics and is scheduled to teave the nursing home for his sister's in the next few days. SJT ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 20:32:00 -0500 From: boyle@peabody.jhu.edu (McGregor Boyle) Subject: Thanks! Thanks to all for the info concerning non-FF books. I had been advised previously that most of these books didn't use many characters outside of Baum, but was surprised that _Magic Dishpan_ included an appearance by Plannetty... (Mac: "Who's THAT??"). I'm reading _Speedy_ to him now, and we're enjoying it greatly. The club's edition is absolutely gorgeous, and this story is perfect for my son. Last night we read the chapter where Terrybubble first appears, and Mac (who is also obsessed is Dinosaurs and plans to be a Paleontologist) was enthralled. BTW, I imagine this has come up before, but I was surprised to see the phrase "over the rainbow" used in _Speedy_ to decribe the relationship between Oz and our world- 5 years before the movie was released. I had no idea this idea was used outside of the movie- I guess somebody working on the film must have read _Speedy_! Thanks again- hope you're all enjoying the Winkies... greg ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 21:26:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls I see! @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu = Steve Teller. If you knock on the door sometimes someone comes out. Any relation to Teller of "Penn and "? Danny >reply to 7/10/96: Bear: "They call me. . . *MR.* Bear!" Did not address you on 7/10 so message not received. Please shoot again. Maybe we can both make Winkies next year. Well, I finally started "The Lost King of Oz" which starts with RPT telling me that the Winkies are in the East! No wonder I didn't go to Winkies! Peaceful weekend regards, Just Plain Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Friday 12-Jul-96 20:03:53 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MAGIC: Tyler wrote: >This area is a vast unknown, since the WIzard and Glinda aren't talking. Ozma: Sorry, Digest -- The inner workings of magic are revealed on a "need-to-know" basis... Wizard: With good reason! Glinda: Otherwise every hack in Oz would be turning Philidendrons into Jabberwocks! :) "THE AGE OF LIGHT": Yes, Tyler -- I like this much better...Even better than "GLORIOUS REIGN OF OZMA"... :) DINOSAURS IN OZ: Greg wrote: >Mac ... is also obsessed is Dinosaurs and plans to be a Paleontologist Then he'll *LOVE* _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_ ( If he isn't in graduate school by the time it's published! :) :) :) ), which features appearances by *several* dinosaurs! THE MAP: Bear wrote: >Well, I finally started "The Lost King of Oz" which starts with RPT telling me >that the Winkies are in the East! As usual, RPT is looking at the erronious map by the Wogglebug... TO NATE BARLOW: Welcome back to the Digest, Nate!!! :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 14, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 22:40:15 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Tyler, since we've touched breifly on Ozma's heritage and pre-dorothean Oz, I have another question. . . If Ozma is a fairy, then is she descended from a (presumably long) line of fairies? Didn't I catch that she was set up to be the ruler by Lurline herself, or am I confusing that with something else? If so, is this kinda like a profecy like "This fairy land that I enchant shall reach fulfillment only when my true heir is on the throne." Would Oz's enchantment (non-aging and stuff) work with any of Ozma's progenitors or only with herself? "Whoso is transformed from this state of boyhood is rightwise Queen, ruler of all Oz" One more thing, is the non-Ozma years, by contrast, the "Dark Ages of Oz?" BTW, I'll echo Mac: "Who IS Plannetty..." Bear, My "reply to 7/10/96" was to the whole Digest, in which you remarked how we are suppossed to call those of more experience than us "Mr" so-and-so, that's why the 's Oh, and I plan to be going to the South Winkies this year, but as for Winkies '97, I can't plan that far in advance! Dave-- Magic on a need-to-know basis? I know someone who needs to know! Zeb: "Over the rainbow, second star to the right. . . no that's not right. . ." Keep trying Zeb, maybe someday. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:52:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim VanderNoot Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 07-12-96 >Bear: >I am steller@pittstate.com, and am certainly not a closet member >(athough I may occasionally send a message without signing it). >@pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu must be some sort of strange computer >misusage. > >Steve T. ^ | | The above sounds similar something that frequently happens during a standard name resolution search with DNS. DNS will take the domain suffix you have configured for searching and concatenate it with the name you specified in the destination address. A log of a DNS query will frequently show something like "steller@mail.pittstate.edu.pittstate.edu" if "pittstate.edu" is configured as a domain suffix for searching. Jim ------------------------------------- Jim Vander Noot E-mail: jvandern@sam.neosoft.com Date: 7/13/96 Time: 12:52:27 AM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 01:00:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim VanderNoot Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 07-13-96 --- On Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:15:38 -0500 (EST) Dave Hardenbrook wrote: but was surprised that _Magic Dishpan_ included an appearance by Plannetty... (Mac: "Who's THAT??"). -----------------End of Original Message----------------- Gee, Greg, I hope Herm can find that "Silver Princess" for you. Langley did have a couple copies stored in LA - I know that we mailed some of them earlier this year - hopefully not all! Jim ------------------------------------- Jim Vander Noot E-mail: jvandern@sam.neosoft.com Date: 7/13/96 Time: 1:00:53 AM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 14:46:25 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-13-96 Nate! Welcome back! Are you going to bother catching up on the digests you missed? That would be a lot of work... |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 09:46:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-13-96 From: Barbara DeJohn Hi Digest !!! I felt the great need to write in today because with so many people at Winkie's the digest was getting far to short. Last night on A&E there was a biography on Florenz Ziegfield who was married to Billie Burke. It said her most reconizable role was Glinda in "Wizard of Oz" and that she took the role primarily to pay off the debt that Ziegfield left when he died. They had Billie's daughter Patricia on the show perhaps someone from the Baum Bugle should interview her on how her mother liked the role. I know that this is off the subject but my baby slept 11 hours last night!!! Barbara DeJohn 10333.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 11:13:33 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: Who really cares? Bear: No, I am not related to the Teller of Penn and Teller (BTW, I do talk), nor am I related to Edward Teller, the father of the H-Bomb (with which [the bombn not the man] I am glad to have no kinship), nor (as I was sometimes asked when I lived in Chicago (between 1940 and 1962) Rabbi Teller. I am the great nephew of the social worker Sidney A. Teller, but you probably never heard of him. Nate B.: I will add my welcome back. General comment: Gee Whiz, the digest is short when WinkieCon is on. (Didn't Gili say something like that?) Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 12:49:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Gili: That's a good idea you had: Eric posting only the answers first and then letting everybody try to guess the response (in the form of a question, of course!) SJT: Thanks for the update on Fred Meyer. It's good to hear that he is slowly, if surely, moving down the road of improvement. Greg: I enjoyed _Speedy_, too. The rainbow has been used in Oz as early as _Road_, when we met the lovely Polychrome, although I did not remember that exact phrase being used in the FF. Bear: As you go through the RPT books, you will find that she oscillates between East and West for Munchkins and Winkies. Oh, H.M. Wogglebug! Why did you reverse the map! :-) Nate Returns! :-) These digests are indeed short. Everybody must be having fun at Winkies. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 15:17:59 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-13-96 Dave: You're not attending the Winkie con?? Are you not a *left-coaster*? Tyler: Amen to your praise of _Unexplored Territory in Oz_ ! I wish I had read it some months ago when Oz canon, history, etc. was being discussed. The annotated version is only $3.00, and the essays alone, $1.50. Gili: Actually, we want the Jeopardy answers first, right? :):) Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 16:31:44 -0800 (PST) From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) Subject: Multiple Ozroars I would think that those who tend toward the theory of more than one Ozroar in early Oz history have considerable real-life precedents to cite. In my own personal lineup of male ancestors there were three Eleazers in a row ca. 1725-1790. W. Baldwin ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 13-Jul-96 21:01:44 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OH, TO BE AT WINKIE CON NOW THAT SUMMER IS HERE! :) : Dick wrote: >Dave: You're not attending the Winkie con?? Are you not a >*left-coaster*? Yes, but I can't afford it this year. :( I WILL be at South Winkies Convention in October though! :) PLANETTY: Danny wrote: >I'll echo Mac: "Who IS Plannetty..." Planetty: Hi! It's nite to see you! Dave asked me to post this special message introducing myself: I am Princess Planetty from Anuther (sic) Planet. I came to Earth with my companion Thun the Thunder Colt in the year AL 36 (AD 1938), and I am a Silver Princess, coming from a planet where silver dominates. Thun and I now have netiful life in Oz, where I am enjoying marital bliss with King Randy of Regalia! ( I'm seen out adventuring alone in Oz right now though because even though I'm public domain, my hubby is still under copyright, so I've had to leave him at home a lot. :) ) Have a netiful day everyone! A SPECIAL BASTILLE DAY MESSAGE: Ozma: Good heavens! Dorothy: What happened? Percy: You look in mean shape, guys! Scraps: It's all my fault! I thought it would be fun to visit Paris on Bastille Eve! Scarecrow: Instead, it was a chaos! Everyone was exploding firecrakers! Lion: My ears are still ringing! Scraps: And when the Scarecrow and I were taking a "romantic" trip down the Seine, some (probably drunk) people on the bridge even dumped firecrakers on our heads! We almost caught fire! Tin Man: And then when some merrymakers tried to use me for a bass drum, that's when I suggested we come home! Lion: But then the Parisian cab drivers refused to drive us back to our hotel room (where we had the wormhole leading back to fairyland), even when I threatened to tear them up! Ozma: You should have called us for help. Tin Man: We tried, but couldn't find a phone that worked! Scraps: I am now in favor of Kaliko and his Nomes taking over Paris -- There would be a tyrannical Nome Police State, but at least the phones would work! Scarecrow: We would probably be there still if we didn't run into Locasta, who was returning from a bike trip through the Swiss Alps. She knew how to handle the cab drivers, so she bribed one with a large blue Munchkin carbuncle, and THEN he drove us back! Lion: But I think he took a "short cut" so he could stiff us for *MORE* jewels! He must have driven us across the Seine eleven times! Scraps: Chatres and Chenonceaux's great, you bet! Loire Valley's beauty you won't believe! But one thing you'll surely regret -- To be in Paris on Bastille Eve! (This has been a public service message from the Emerald City Travel Bureau.) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 15, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 13:10:55 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-96 Barb - congratulations on your baby's long night! I hope she keeps it up, that would be very considerate of her. :-) I think it would be an excellent idea to interview Billie Burke's daughter, as a more movie-oriented peice for the Bugle. Who here on the digest represents the Bugle? SJT? Jim? Announcement: I will soon have my own homepage on the net - I promise there will be an Ozzy flavor! I am planning to scan in some Ozzy illustrations, I hope this falls into the: "no part of this book may be reproduced EXCEPT *BRIEF* excerpts for prupose of review" etc. category. I am also hereby requesting permission to establish links to other Ozzy homepages and FAQ's - okay, everybody? Bye! Gili |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 11:38:35 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: Munchkin Convention After 18 years in the Oz Club, I am finally going to an Oz Convention! I will be in Wilmington, and would like to know who else on the Digest will be there. Scott Cummings ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:06:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Geneology in Oz 1) Ozbot, Ozma is supposed to be not only descended from a long line of fairies, but also, as all other fairies are supposed to, have existed since the beginning of time. (Yes, I know the two are mutually contradictery. Probably the latter is a myth.) Lurline is said to have had a hand in setting up Ozma as ruler of Oz, though I am not aware of any prophecy involved in the process unless one accepts _Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz_. Non-aging only began after Ozma ascended to the throne. 2) Tyler, Professor Wogglebug wrote: >The reason why that map was reversed was because of an accident >involving a pair of mirror-reversion goggles and a bottle of Chateaux de >Pumperdink... Also: I have read _Unexplored Territory in Oz_, but I don't remember anything from it on the mechanics of magic. ): 3) Dave, I thought that Randy was PD, as he is a major character in the PD _The Silver Princess in Oz_. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 16:52:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS Well, since we are having a nice quiet Digest weekend I will digress a tad. I visited the new Borders in Palo Alto a short while ago and as I was passing a shelf, a book called out to me. It was "The Dig" by Alan Dean Foster of sci fi fame. The blurb sounded interesting so I took it to the counter. The man there said, "Oh yes, he came in today and signed some of these." Sure enough it was autographed. Well, yesterday I was trying to read "The Lost King of Oz" and needed a break so I picked up "The Dig." I couldn't put it down. I don't read a lot of sci fi anymore, fantasy being my favorite flavor, but this is really good. And what should I find on p. 99 but a lengthy Oz reference. Ah yes, Oz is all around us. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 16:51:18 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: Wogglebug Just a footnote to Dave's tale of the Ozians in Paris on Bastille Day. While they were on the river, a skyrocket landed on the Scarecrow, setting him on fire. With quickness of mind, Scraps threw him overfboard into the river. The Scarecrow went totally crazy. In face he was in Seine. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:56:00 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Here, let me clarify my last post regarding Ozma's heritage. I just wondered if anyone tried to reconcile the conflicting reports of Ozma's birth. First, how is a fairy born? Second, Ozma must have been born and been a baby, as LAND clearly states that Wizard gave Ozma to Mombi as a baby, who reared her as she/he grew up. Third, I thought I heard that Lurline left a special fairy as a ruler, implying Ozma's divine right. Are these inconsistencies or just glimpses of a larger story that has never been told? My Shanower comics from the IWOC have just arrived! Wow! They look great! This was just after I read MAGIC via e-text, and I thought, Oz seems to have a lot of parrallels to comic-genre. Like, the heroes are all the same, with various creators, writers and artists, interpreting adventure after adventure. Guess I'm rambling now, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:41:32 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-14-96 Danny: - As Tyler and I have mentioned, several times recently, get hold of a copy of _Unexplored Territory in Oz_. One of Pattrick's essays is _The Early History of Oz_, and would allow you some some insight and possible answers to your questions regarding Ozma's heritage, and pre-Ozma Oz. Nate: - I'll add my "welcome back", also! Will you be at Munchkin con again this year? Barb DeJohn: - It's been some thirty plus years, but I still remember the first time my little ones slept thru the night!:)) Dave: - I understand! One of these years, I'm going to try to afford a Winkie con, just to be able to meet some of you folks on that other coast. :) But, like you, one con is all my budget will allow, and since I'm within a two hour drive, It'll be the Munchkin con again this year. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:04:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: your mail This is a brief report on the Winkie Convention for Jim's info and for the OZZY DIGEST. The Winkie Convention was terrific. I enjoyed this one more than I've enjoyed a convention for many years. It was relaxed and organized, beautiful, and fun. Dick Rutter won the costume parade as a fighting apple tree. His outfit was so convincing that Judy Bieber threw an apple at him! The Oz Show and Tell was wonderful. Pete Hanff's slide show about the Arts & Crafts and the Wm. Morris influence on the art of the Baum books was well-received. The auction was fine. It did well for I.W.O.C. Patrick Maund was a dandy auctioneer. He also organized the whole auction shebang. Eric Gjovaag and I clerked for him. Saturday night we had a silly and fun "panel" discussion about Oz collectors. It was conducted as a talk show by Phil Don'tchaKnow (a.k.a. Pete Hanff). It included Cap't. Salt (Robin Hess) and Princess Langwidere (Langley Brandt) as Oz character collectors. Bill Stillman and Jay Scarfone played themselves. Eric Gjovaag played a pompous professor who knew everything about all the Oz collectors. I played the antagonist, Ms. Behavior, who believed that collecting was indicative of the need to "get a life." One of the best lines of the discussion was when we were told that the Hungry Tiger had a fabulous collection of pictures...of fat babies! After the panel, Jay and Bill did a presentation about Oz collecting. Good stuff. Quizzes, Treasure Hunt, Auction, Parties. It was all great. Lynn Beltz did a great job. I hope Langley and I do as well next year when we chair the Winkie Convention. --Robin Olderman On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, Jim VanderNoot wrote: > Howdy, Winkies! > > For those of you who plan to attend the upcoming > convention, the Oz Club web site would love to post some > exciting, detailed, first-hand accounts. Photos would be > nice to, even if they show up a little after the fact. > And whenever we have a firm commitment on venues, > chairmen, themes, and dates for the 1997 conventions... > well, it's never to early! I look forward to hearing from > you. > > Jim ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:06:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy DIgest Danny: Ozma's background is very murky. There are many books in and out of the FF that give information, and most of it is contradictory (on the surface). To sum up quickly, here is a skeleton MOPPeT that (hopefully) explains all mentions of Ozma's background and Lurline's involvement in Oz. Lurline flew over a beautiful country one day and decided to enchant it, creating a fairy land. The land was divided up into many kingdoms, and she chose Ozroar, ruler of Morrow, to rule here. Unfortunately, the spell to enchant the land was more complex than Lurline realized at the time, and that it would require several centuries to for her dream of "Oz" to be fully realized. Therefore, she planned to have a member of her fairy band eventually take over and rule the land forever. Her name became "Ozma", to follow the family tradition of Ozroar. Over the centuries, Ozroar's descendants took up the rulership of this country as it slowly became more and more magical. Some of these kings may also have been named Ozroar. "Ozma" (very few know her true name) was allowed to be born as a baby to the current king, Pastoria, and his wife (possibly named Ozette or Ozia), who happened to be descended from fairies (possibly due to Lurline's influence). The plan was that when the baby Ozma reached 12 years of age, the transformation of Oz into a full-fledged fairyland would be complete. Sadly, the Wicked Witches deposed Pastoria and kidnapped Ozma, turning her into a boy. This upset the spell, and it took several decades to set right. In this way, Ozma is the daughter of Pastoria, is a member of Lurline's fairy band, is born of a long line of fairy queens, and was "left" with the king of Oz. Obviously, this is very sketchy and may not be the best possible explanation. It is my hope that, with research and advice from many people, a solid theory can be worked out. The "right" answer will never exist, but we can get pretty !@#$%&* close! :-) For the record, here are the names that I have given to the Five Ages of Oz, pending further research and revelation: 1. THE AGE OF DREAMS. Began with the beginning of time. Ended when Lurline enchanted the land and contacted the "first" Ozroar. 2. THE AGE OF KINGS. Began when Lurline enchanted the Land. Ended with the deposing of Pastoria and the transformation of Ozma, although it is not clear that these events happened simultaneously, or even with relative proximity. 3. THE AGE OF DARKNESS/SHADOWS (I haven't decided yet. Any suggestions?) Began with the deposing of Pastoria. Ended when the Wizard established himself in the newly-built EC, although I believe there was something there before that, just on a smaller scale. 4. THE AGE OF THE WIZARD. Began with the Wizard ruling in EC. Ended with the disenchantment of Ozma, even though the Wizard had left some years before. 5. THE AGE OF LIGHT. Began with the disenchantment of Ozma. As far as I know, this Age has not ended, and will not end, unless... 6. THE AGE OF CONSISTANCY. Began with Tyler Jones taking over Oz. Oz citizens are required to read all the Oz books and report any inconsistancies to Tyler, who will iron them out and explain them away. :-) Tyler: Good news! Chris Dulabone just won the powerball lottery and published 47 brand-new Oz books. Here you go! Trot: Oh, MAN!!! Anyway, I downzised this from 7. Originally the Age of Kings was broken up into two Ages. At the time, I was under the assumption that there were only two rulers after the enchantment: The one and only Ozroar (who may have ruled anywhere from 200 years to 1000) and Pastoria. Each Age was named the ruler. I now believe that there were MANY rulers between the Ozroar that Lurline met and Pastoria, and they all have one Age to share. The Age of the Wizard was also broken up into two ages. I had called the time of the Scarecrow's rule (and Jinjur's short interim) THE AGE OF TRANSITION. I later decided that this was too short a time to be given an entire Age, so I merged it with the Age of the Wizard, said name has not changed. Dave and Planetty: Actually, I believe that Randy IS in Public Domain, since he played a major role in _Silver Princess_, but I am not sure. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:52:16 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Gone But Not Fotgotten To quickly answer Bear's comment: <> While Lurline was said to have left one of her fairies in Oz to rule it, giving her the name of Ozma, I never thought this was the Ozma we knew...rather, she was her ancestor. Just as there were several Ozroars in Oz (or a lot of Louis's in France and Georges in England), so there were no doubt several Ozmas as well. (Our) Ozma says outright that there were in DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD IN OZ. <> To varying degrees, otherwise, to take an example, Nick Chopper and Captain Fyter would've been killed when their limbs, and especially their heads, were cut off. Another anomaly I haven't seen mentioned--the Powder of Life seems to have worked differently with each batch. The original one (which Mombi and Tip used to bring Jack Pumpkinhead, the Sawhorse, and the Gump to life) needed the Weaugh! Peaugh! Teaugh! incantation to work...the second batch brought Dyna's bear rug to life when she simply wished it alive, and the final batch brought Scraps and the Glass Cat to life without even that--as well as Victor Columbia Edison, who by no stretch of the imagination had ever been wished alive by anyone. Refinements as Dr. Nikidik/Pipt went along, or what? As for why I've been a lot less active lately, Jenny did indeed give birth to her puppies...not 15, to be sure, but 8, which have been more than enough to eat up most of my on-line time until they get more capable of taking care of themselves. (I even named one Pongo, after the Dalmatian who sired that huge litter...he's not a Dal, but he has an unusual number of separate spots for a Welsh Springer Spaniel... More later...I hope! Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 14-Jul-96 22:31:48 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things WINKIE CONV.: Robin O. wrote: >Saturday night we had a silly and fun >"panel" discussion about Oz collectors. It was conducted as a talk >show by Phil Don'tchaKnow (a.k.a. Pete Hanff). It included Cap't. Salt >(Robin Hess) and Princess Langwidere (Langley Brandt) as Oz character >collectors. That sounded like real fun! :) (I would have loved to have seen Langley as Princess Langwidere!) That's the sort of just-for-fun thing I'd like to do at South Winkies! (If anyone with jurisdiction over S.W. is listening) :) TYLER'S FIVE AGES: Tyler wrote: >1. THE AGE OF DREAMS. Began with the beginning of time. Ended when Lurline >enchanted the land and contacted the "first" Ozroar. By "beginning of time", do you mean when the Earth formed, when Baumgea broke off from Pangea, or when the first Tottenhots settled in Oz's river valleys? :) >2. THE AGE OF KINGS ... Ended with the >deposing of Pastoria and the transformation of Ozma, although it is not >clear that these events happened simultaneously, or even with relative >proximity. The two events COULDN'T have happened close to the same time could they, since Ozma's transformation must have happened after the Wizard handed her over to Mombi, sometime during the Fourth Age? >3. THE AGE OF DARKNESS/SHADOWS (I haven't decided yet. Any suggestions?) How about "The Age of Wicked Witches"? (BTW, during which Age does Glinda and Locasta come along and conquer Singra and Mombi, repectively?) >6. THE AGE OF CONSISTANCY. Began with Tyler Jones taking over Oz... :) :) :) :) COPYRIGHTS: Oh, dear! I'm *STILL* confused about copyrights! (Maybe this subject should be in the FAQ!) Okay, so the question for the experts is: Does a character become PD when the FIRST book in which they appear goes PD (In which case Randy and Kabumpo are still under copyright), or when ANY book they appear in becomes PD (In which case R. and K. are PD be virture of thier having both appeared extensively in _Silver Princess_)? -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 16, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 08:35:57 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: For TOD Thanks for the welcome back, everyone! (And, no, Gili, I don't think I'll attempt to catch up on the ones I missed :) So with all this talk about Winkies--who's going to be at MunchCon? I'm going to miss Friday night (it's a little bit too early in my job to take a day off), but I plan on being there for the rest of it. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:22:42 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Scott, Congratulations on finally becoming a conventioneer after 18 years. I'm sure you will enjoy Munchkins immensely. Naturally I will be there (but not Judy, who is busy with her teaching career in New Mexico), and this is my twentieth consecutive year of Munchkin attendence. Robin: Thanks for a great Winkie Convention write-up. But you forgot to mention the food, which featured another Asilomar oddity: Peanut Butter Cream Pie (ugh; burp!). ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:44:06 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests since 7/7/96 I've been reading the Digests for the last week+, but have been too busy with other things (my daughter brought our second car out from California and visited a while, and I had a contract to do some work for my old company) to respond. Herewith whatever I find that still needs response after others have already had a shot: 7/8: Peter G.: Glad to hear that your family member is well on the road to recovery. You're right; the issues of the Oz Collector I had handy were fairly old, because of my moves. I've since gotten an issue with the 800 number for ordering in the footer, and there probably were others in the interval when all my incoming mail that I keep long-term was getting stashed in places where I still haven't unearthed it. Sorry to have perpetuated someone else's error about your saying DOTWIZ was "metaphysical". At the time I wrote my copy was still packed, but it's now available for checking. Badger: Actually, I rather like "A Christmas Carol". It's the only Dickens I've read that I did - or, for that matter, that I've seen dramatized and found particularly enjoyable (either on film or stage). I have not, in fact, ever been able to force myself to read an entire Dickens novel, but when even dramatic works based on his books (and I've seen films of DAVID COPPERFIELD, OLIVER TWIST, and TALE OF TWO CITIES, and stage productions of HARD TIMES and EDWIN DROOD, plus both film and stage versions of OLIVER!) have boring plots, I'm convinced that he isn't my cuppa. YMMV. It's generally considered likelier that humans lost their fur before they started wearing skins, and adopted the latter when they moved to colder climates than East Africa. Or do you witches have an oral tradition that reaches back into the Pleistocene? Well, Rumpole would certainly be a vast improvement over either the Woggle-bug or the Tin Woodman as a barrister, judging from the court scene in DOTWIZ... Eric: I didn't really consider the "Oz Kids" episode shown at the 1995 Winkie to be based on OZMA OF OZ at all. About the only similarity was the presence of the Nome King (or more accurately, his son) as villain. It could just as well be considered to be based on TIK-TOK or EMERALD CITY or GNOME KING, as far as that goes. Anyhow, while it wasn't great, I didn't think it was terrible, either. I mildly enjoyed it, myself. (The whole concept is completely heretical, of course.) Dave: My own favorite theory about the extinction of the dinosaurs is that one species did develop intelligence and the K-T break was due to a thermonuclear war. How much evidence do you think there'd be of human civilization in 65 million years if we had one? The 10,000 or so years that there's been anything remotely identifiable as "civilization" is a very thin line in the geologic record... 7/9: Tyler: >In this case, I don't know where Delphi is located. It's in Greece, on the north side of the Gulf of Corinth about halfway in from the Adriatic. In several places in the FF it's stated that governing Oz keeps Ozma very busy. It's unclear, though, what specific duties this involves. 7/10: Greg: The only ECP Oz book that I've read with any references to non-Baum characters was MAGIC DISHPAN. QUEEN ANN does have a reference to Fix City, from ROYAL BOOK, but it's so peripheral you could miss it if you weren't alert. GLASS CAT originally had a similarly peripheral reference to the Maybe Mountains, from GRAMPA, but it was cut before the published version. Eric: The Frogman doesn't appear in the FF after GLINDA, but he's a major character in MAGIC DISHPAN. Steve: >Birds are *not* dinosaurs, although they may be descended from them. It >would be as true to say that human beings are the primative shrew-like >mammals that lived in the Mesozoic Era. False analogy. "Human beings" are a species, or maybe a genus; dinosaurs are a class. You have to compare comparable taxonomic entities. If you want to make a comparable analogy, say it's like saying that humans are chimpanzees. This is arguably true, since genetic evidence shows that chimpanzees are more closely related to humans than they are to gorillas or orangutans, even though conventional taxonomy puts chimps with the latter two in the Pongidae and humans in a separate family, the Hominidae. Birds are dinosaurs, on the other hand, in the sense that placental mammals are mammals - meaning that they're the primary (though in the mammalian case not the sole) surviving group of what was once a much more diverse class. Tyler: It was my impression that the other "temples of learning" the Woggle-bug thought his college superior to included places like Harvard, Yale, Oxford, Cambridge, Notre Dame (well, maybe not Notre Dame ), and the like. Rich: My take on the broken-glasses story was that the protagonist wasn't nearsighted (which would have presented no problem in reading, though extreme myopia might make it relatively slow because of limiting the field of view with a book held that close), but had lost his close vision, either through natural hypermetropia or presbyopia. When you can only focus sharply at a distance where the print is too small to read, you can't read without some kind of correction. And in the story, he wasn't able to leave his vault safely to find a new pair. MR. Bear: You know as well as I do that you're almost a whole year older than I am! :-) 7/11; Dave: The only thing you miss in WICKED WITCH that's explained in HIDDEN VALLEY is Percy's origin, as far as I can recall. (Certainly that's the only important thing.) 7/13: Tyler: Trot's earlier adventures weren't necessarily in Baumgea - SKY ISLAND probably was, since Polychrome appears in it, but SEA FAIRIES probably wasn't, since there's no apparent transition when Trot and Cap'n Bill meet the mermaids, and King Anko seems to be highly _au courant_ about events in our world. Greg: Maybe "Yip" Harburg was an Oz fan and had read SPEEDY; I expect the phrase "over the rainbow" in the film dialog came from the song he wrote for it, and not vice versa. 7/14: Dave: Shouldn't you have posted a "spoiler alert" before Planetty's introduction of herself? You gave away a lot more important information about SILVER PRINCESS there than I did about SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS... You sound as if you've been to France recently! There! Caught up! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:05:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-12-96 Kiss the days of the short Digests good-bye, I'm back! Robin's already covered everything, really, that happened in her Winkie report, I'll just add my comments to hers later. And to keep these Digests of a manageable length, and so *I* don't go crazy trying to answer them all at once, I'll just answer two a day until I'm caught up, okay? > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > MORE ON _MASQUARADE_: > Eric wrote: > >No, the most recent character is Betsy Bobbin. Remember, Trot predates > >Betsy, having appeared in "The Sea Fairies" and "Sky Island." > > I think Tyler means that Trot is the most recent as far as who comes > to Oz last. Trot (and Cap'n Bill) are there, so _Masquarade_, must have > happened *after* _Scarecrow_. I'm not disputing the placement, only the imprecision used in the original statement, that Trot and Cap'n Bill came after Betsy Bobbin. In terms of immigration to Oz, yes, but in terms of Baum's career, no. > Correct, even though Ganymede (like the other three namesakes of > planet Jupiter's four big moons) had an affair Zeus/Jupiter. (Yes, folks, > The king of the classical gods was--er...um...!!! :) :) :) ) Greek! Yes, whether we like it or not, same-sex love was an acceptable aspect of ancient Greek culture that was encouraged. --Eric "Oh, that was pretty short, wasn't it?" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:26:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-13-96 > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-12-96 > > Eric - > when you eventually get around to posting the "Jeopardy" questions - > may I suggest that you not post the answers in the same digest, and give > us a chance to test ourselves? Okay, will do. I'll post the first answer at the end of this post, then the question (plus whatever questions the contestants may have given) the next day, along with the next answer. (For those of you not familiar with "Jeopardy!" they give you the ANSWER, you have to supply the question.) > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Just to be safe, I'll mention posting the Jeopardy answers/responses every > day! :-) Just one request: Everybody, PLEASE don't clutter up the Digest with people responding to the "Jeopardy!" posts! The Digest is long enough as it is, what with me being back and all... > Let me, for the billioninth time, repeat my strong support for _Unexplored > Territory in Oz_, by Robert Pattrick, especially the one with the insightful > annotations by Patrick Maund. This book is extremely useful and fun to read. > It is very cheap, too, so there is no real need to ILL the thing. Unless, of course, you can't even afford to buy "The Best of the Baum Bugle 1957-1961"... > Speaking of this, I have not yet received any reviews of BEOO or other books > by people. Any takers? Believe me, you DON'T want any reviews from me. They usually consist of one of two phrases: "I liked it!" or "Eh, it was all right." The few times I've had a review published in the "Bugle" I've had to really sweat it out to make it sound like I knew what I was doing... > From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu > Subject: OZ > > It is time for the Winkie convention, and here I am stuck in Pittsburg, > Kansas advising entering Freshmen. I'm just glad I was there, now that I hear the horror stories about the heat we had here in Seattle over the weekend. (It's still very warm -- for us -- but it should be cooling down later this week.) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > DINOSAURS IN OZ: > Greg wrote: > >Mac ... is also obsessed is Dinosaurs and plans to be a Paleontologist > > Then he'll *LOVE* _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_ ( If he isn't > in graduate school by the time it's published! :) :) :) ), which features > appearances by *several* dinosaurs! Don't forget the dinosaurs in Dick Martin's "The Ozmapolitan of Oz." > THE MAP: > Bear wrote: > >Well, I finally started "The Lost King of Oz" which starts with RPT telling me > >that the Winkies are in the East! > > As usual, RPT is looking at the erronious map by the Wogglebug... Actually, the original map is correct -- sort of. Everyone have your Books of Wonder edition of "Tik-Tok of Oz"? Take a look at the front endpaper. Note the compass rose. What's wrong with it? That's right! The E and W are on the opposite sides from what we're used to, thus reversing east and west. But this is merely the Ozian orientation (I suppose), and it is consistent with all the books to date (we just won't bring up that mention of Glinda living in the north in "Emerald City," shall we?). It was only later, when the map was reissued, that the E and W were set in their correct REAL WORLD positions, probably by some unenlightened editor at Reilly and Britton, thus causing all the confusion. FWIW, Ruth Plumly Thompson didn't really care which way everybody went, and she claims she never got any complaints about it from her readers. It's only when the Club published "Yankee in Oz," and they wanted her story to conform to the Club's maps, that it became an issue for her. And now... "I'll take 'The Wizard of Oz' for $100, Alex." "In the book, these are silver, but they still help Dorothy get home." --Eric "Okay, who DOESN'T know that one???" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:29:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: A request for the Digest Found this in my mailbox when I got home. I figured the easiest way to get the word out was to get it in the Digest. Please remember, this person is NOT subscribed to the Digest, so if you want to respond, you must do so through private e-mail sent to his address. --Eric ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 09 Jul 96 13:58:39 -0700 From: Larry Stouch To: tiktok@eskimo.com Subject: (no subject) Hi. I've put together a list of OZ memorabilia that I have for sale. I've been a big Judy and OZ fan and collector for years. Three years of unemployment make it necessary that I sell some stuff. I have a Judy memorabilia and video list available and an OZ list. It is the latter that I am writing about specifically. Perhaps you might suggest where I could place an ad referring to the list in the OZ groups in the Internet. Thanks so much for your assistance. warmly, waynebows@pacificnet.net ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:32:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Gili: Go ahead and link my page from yours! http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tyler_jones Aaron and Danny: Glinda mentions Lurlines use of prophecy to prepare people for the coming of Ozma in _Oz and the Three Witches_. Presumably, this was just to let people know what was going to happen. It seems that there was some degree of non-aging or age-slowing even before Ozma ascended the throne, but the full efffects only took place after she arrived. Example: Ojo must have aged slowly for several years, and Dr. Pipt mentioned that he would grow up in _Patchwork Girl_. Aaron again: True, Pattrick only examines the process of magic in his essay. We are still in the dark as to exactly how it works, and probably always will be. Danny: While all of the stories about Ozma have potential conflicts, I hope very much that they are all parts of a larger story. Dick R: I just want to go on record and say that one of the very few (possibly the only) disagreement that I have with Pattrick is that he believes there was no magic in Oz prior to Lurline's enchantment, while I believe that there was. Rich: Yes. Ozma specifically said that her ancestors (her mortal ones, anyway) were called "Oz" or "Ozma". It is possible that Lurline allowed other fairies in her band to be born as mortals and called them Ozma as well, to help with her enchantment. If some of these rulers were also fairies from Lurline's band, it is unclear what happened to them as the generations came and went. Presumably, they would rule for a time, and then leave, to make way for the next one. By the time that "our" Ozma arrived, the enchantment was nearly complete. Powder(s) of Life: The most rational explanation is that, over time, Nikidik/Pipt (if they were one and the same) improved the powder to the point where it would no longer need the incantation/wish. Dave: For the Record, the First Age began when the first sentient being arrived in Oz, whether this was through birth, travel or magical creation. The fact that the overthrow of Pastoria must have taken place years before the kidnapping/transformation of Ozma has been mentioned before. They troublesome area was that Ozma had to survive as a baby for perhaps as many as 20 years with nobody finding out about her. Officially, the Age of Kings ends when Pastoria is overthrown. As for the Battles of Witches, let's review: 1. The Four Wicked Witches (one from each compass point, Mombi, Gingemma, Bastinda and Sringa, as opposed to the WWS in _Enchanted Apples) joined forces to overthrow Pastoria and divided (most of) the country between themselves. It is unlikely that Sringa could have participated in this after her overthrow, so Glinda vs. Sringa must have taken place after the Second Age. 2. The Wizard says that when he arrived in Oz, there were already two Good Withces (Glinda and Locasta) ruling in the South and North. Therefore, Glinda vs. Sringa must have occured before the Fourth Age, meaning that Glinda overthrew Sringa only after The four WW's overthrew Pastoria. 3. Mombi could have been involved in the overthrow of Pastoria even after being defeated by Locasta, but it is not likely. All we know for sure is that Locasta defeated her before the Wizard arrived, and was then herself beaten by Mombi after Dorothy's arrival, setting of the chain of events mentioned in _Giant Horse_. I currently believe that the two battles of Witches occured at roughly the same time, so that both took place in the Third Age. ********** SLIGHT SPOLIERS FOR _WISHING HORSE_ AND _BLUE WITCH_ ********** Note that there were no battles of this nature in the East or West. Gloma simply held her own as ruler of the southern portion of the Winkie country and Abatha apparantly had no inclination to rule, before her disappearance. ********** END OF SLIGHT SPOILERS ********** Copyright: This area is a mess of liquid hippikaloric. We really need to get the facts and then Dave can put in version 47.47 of his FAQ. However, I believe that a character goes PD when ANY book in which he plays a major part goes PD. Help! In _Ozmapolitan_, Dorothy and whatisname go on a journey and they meet some prehistoric types, such as Neozlithic and Paleozlithic people. Does anybody know the (approximate) dates of the Paleolithic, Mesolithic and Neolithic periods? Also, dates for the Bronze Age would help as well. :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 18:18:32 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-15-96 Gili: - Good luck with your page on the net. (:-) I have to add more memory to my old Mac so I can access the web/net. Scott C. - I, for one, will be at Munchkin con. See you there! Steve T. - ?? GROAN!! Rich M. - Congrats on the new "additions" to your family. :-) I trust mom Jenny and pups are doing fine?? Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:28:36 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-96 Scott Cummings, You are obviously a man of good taste. Looking forward to meeting you at Munchkins. Barb, Congratulations on your increased sleep! Robin O., Thanks for the Winkie report. (whimpers of jealousy suppressed) Steve T., Dave H., Thanks for the Bastille Day, er, report. But really, how can you trust people who eat frogs and smoke Gauloises? -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 01:12:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-96 Wow! A whole week of DIGESTS to catch up on. Here goes. Eric: Philador's name came to me on the shuttle from Monterey to S.F. It's just as well that I didn't have time to take the Master's Quiz; heaven knows I'll have enough to do next year without worrying about it. Some of the DIGESTers really should take that quiz. We have some "Masters" here. One of the things I love about Oz conventions is the lack of age discrimination. Looking back on Saturday night, I realize that I spent as much time chatting with the Nitches, who are senior citizens, as I did with you and the boys. For those who don't know what I mean, I'm 52, Eric is 30, and the two boys we were talking to were quite young; one was a teen and one probably was about 12 or so. No one cared. We just talked. Oh, and most of the talk at the convention was not about Oz. People at conventions become extended family. Oz brought us together, but we don't rely on it to keep us together. Reminder: JEOPARDY answers, please. -------- Herm: I love your prices. Remember, as a collector, I've bought from you! -------- OZIANA: Attention all of you writers! I'd like to do a special holiday issue of the magazine. Wanna write holiday stories? No guarantees that this thing'll "fly," but if I get enough good stuff, Special Publications may very well go along with it. It seems to me that the first step is to solicit submissions. So, please submit some stuff to me! I'd like to publish this by winter '98 at the latest, '97 at the earliest. So how 'bout it? Easter? Ramadan? Chanukah? Christmas? New Year's Day? --------- Scott: I'd sell a genuinely vg+ Thompson reprint (with label) in a truly vg+ dj somewhere around $100. --------- Bear: Like Eric, the only California dentist I know of with a good Oz collection is Dr. Richard Rutter. ---------- Piglet Bill: Welcome back. I just bought two Piglet Oz tapes from Herm. Can't wait to play 'em. All reports indicate that they're super. ---------- Nate: Good to have you back! ---------- I wanna go to Munchies! #!@?/* budget. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:20:12 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Received the following request for info. This is one I haven't heard of before. Does anyone out there have any knowledge of this stage version/recording?? Thanks, Bill in Ozlo ________________ I'm looking for a recording of an earlier stage version of the Wizard of Oz. This one, rights owned by Tams-Witmark, has Dorothy returning in a rocket ship(?) and there is no Toto. That's all the information I have. Any idea of the existence of a recording of that version of the show??? _________________ ====================================================================== Date: Monday 15-Jul-96 21:34:29 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DINOSAURS: David H. wrote: >My own favorite theory about the extinction of the dinosaurs is that one >species did develop intelligence and the K-T break was due to a thermonuclear >war. How much evidence do you think there'd be of human civilization in 65 >million years if we had one? Actually, that dinosaurs actually had a technological civilization is part of the premise of the sci-fi novel I'm working on, except that they were driven away from Earth by space aliens, who killed off the uncivilized dinos that remained. Meanwhile, the intellegent dinosaurs that escaped Earth travel to... ( That wasn't Kabumpo, but a brachiosaur. :) ) _SILVER PRINCESS_: I plead guilty to posting Planetty's remarks about herself without encasing it in a "SPOILER ALERT" block. I apologize if I spoiled the story for anyone. FAQ: I hope to update the Ozzy FAQ in the next few days, and if anyone has any suggesions for questions I should include that are not in the current FAQ, please let me know...( Also any "user-friendly" info about what characters are under copyright and which aren't would be much appreciated. :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 17, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 14:02:58 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-96 Whooopsy! Forgot to send this yesterday. Here it is again: Stephen Teller - "the scarecrow went crazy. In fact, he was in Seine". GROOOOAAAAAN! Such an awful pun is worthy of the Wogglebug. :-) Robin - thanks for the account of the convention... yeah, i wish I had been there. Tyler - I like "The Age of Tyler". It fits in well with the scheme of things :-). Reminds me of a story that I think Margaret Berg wrote for the Oz Story circle, where every new character from all new Oz Books, HA or HI, shows up in EC and has to be registered as a citizen of Oz. This happens at a dizzying rate, and the author played around with this a bit, creating characters in one paragraph that had to be registered in the next... ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:48:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-96 > From: DIXNAM@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-13-96 > > Dave: You're not attending the Winkie con?? Are you not a > *left-coaster*? Sheesh, you make left-coaster sound like a conservative Republican saying left-wing. (And FWIW, IIRC correctly there are around 400 members of the Oz Club in California alone. Yet for ALL states (and last year foreign countries -- Hi, Gili, we missed you this year!), attendance at Winkies is usually around 120-150. So many more "left-coasters" don't attend than do.) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > I came to Earth with my companion Thun the Thunder Colt in the > year AL 36 (AD 1938) ~~~~~ Where did THIS come from? And what's the AL stand for? --Eric "Gee, not a lot to say this time around, is there?" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:22:08 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: In-Seine-ity David Hulan: I said I would not write about dinosaurs again (except for Terrybubble) but I feel it necessary to remark that our disagreement is probably a semantic one, a matter of definition. What *is* a dinosaur? Different people would answer that question differently, but the average *lay man's* mental images of dinosaurs and birds are not compatable even though some scientists may show taxonomic similarities approaching identity. Most people's definition of a dinosaur is reptilian, not birdlike. The *word* dinosaur means "terrible lizard"; most birds are not lizards or terrible. Dick and Eleanor: Thanks for the groans, they make it all worthwhile! ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:33:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-96 > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-96 > > I am also hereby requesting permission to establish links to other Ozzy > homepages and FAQ's - okay, everybody? I hereby grant blanket permission for each and every one of you to link your web page, should you have one or ever develop one, to mine. (Gili, this goes double for you!) I do ask, however, that you let me know that you are doing so, and what the URL is, so that I can eventually link my page to yours as well! > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Geneology in Oz > > Also: I have read _Unexplored Territory in Oz_, but I don't remember > anything from it on the mechanics of magic. ): One entire essay in "Unexplored Territory," "Oz MAgic," is about the use and practice of magic in Oz. No, the mechanics aren't covered, but it's a good summary of what IS known about Oz magic, and can perhaps be used to extrapolate one's MOPPeT. > 3) Dave, I thought that Randy was PD, as he is a major character in the > PD _The Silver Princess in Oz_. We REALLY need to consult a copyright lawyer here, but it's my understanding that if the book a character FIRST appears in is still under copyright, then that character is not public domain. Thus, Randy is not available, but Planetty and Thun are. > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: your mail > > The Winkie Convention was terrific. I enjoyed this one more than I've > enjoyed a convention for many years. It was relaxed and organized, > beautiful, and fun. Except, of course, for Gjovaag over there running around doing EVERYTHING on Saturday (having bitten off more than he can chew), saying that next year he won't do anything -- only to be later informed by Robin, "Not while *I'M* in charge!" > Saturday night we had a silly and fun > "panel" discussion about Oz collectors. It was conducted as a talk > show by Phil Don'tchaKnow (a.k.a. Pete Hanff). It included Cap't. Salt > (Robin Hess) and Princess Langwidere (Langley Brandt) as Oz character > collectors. Bill Stillman and Jay Scarfone played themselves. Eric Gjovaag > played a pompous professor who knew everything about all the Oz collectors. For the record, I was Prof. Gunther Whowhatsits, chair of the Ozian Studies department at the University of Northeastern South Central West Virginia. I have no idea from where I dragged that accent up. > I > played the antagonist, Ms. Behavior, who believed that collecting was > indicative of the need to "get a life." And very good you were at it, too! > One of the best lines of the > discussion was when we were told that the Hungry Tiger had a fabulous > collection of pictures...of fat babies! I dunno, Ken asking about when you planned to stop collecting degrees was also pretty good. > It was all great. Lynn Beltz did a great job. I > hope Langley and I do as well next year when we chair the Winkie Convention. I'm sure you will! (But one thing you left out: That great Soldier with the Green Whiskers costume in the parade.) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > COPYRIGHTS: > Oh, dear! I'm *STILL* confused about copyrights! (Maybe this subject > should be in the FAQ!) Peter H., looks like it's time to pull those pamphlets from the government out again... And now, for what you've all been waiting for... Alex: Carol Ann? Carol Ann: What are the slippers? Alex: The slippers?...or the shoes, yeah. Tom: "The Wizard of Oz" for $200. Alex: In 1995 Gregory Maguire published a book on "The Life and Times of" this Oz villainess. --Eric Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # "My childhood had an unhappy ending -- I grew up." --Frank and Ernest ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:35:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest David: While he may have meant schools in our world, and March Laumer's story would give weight to this, the fact of Professor Nowitall and his classroom shows that there must have been some form of education in Oz prior to the Wogglebug, although it may not have been a formal system. Trot's adventures in _Sea Faires_ may have taken place in our world, but the mermaids obviously have the ability to travel to Baumgea, since they showed up in _Glass Cat_. Danny: Hope my spiel helped a little. Not much to say in this digest, except to welcome back the Winkies! :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:47:47 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: For the Digest Robin: I'll heartily second all your comments about the lack of age-discrimination and the extended family nature of Oz conventions. I remember going to my first Munchkin Convention in 1986 (has it been that long? :), a rather small boy of 11, and being made to feel right at home. You can see the effect--I still love to go! I'm just upset I'll miss Friday evening this year, but so goes it. The only disappointing thing is that I only see most people once a year thing, although there are a few people I sometimes see outside of the conventions. Herm: I'll second Robin again in reference to buying from you. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:09:13 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Dickens and Glasses and Maps (oh, my!) Hi everyone! David Hulan wrote: <> He varies a bit. I read THE PICKWICK PAPERS not long ago, and it read more like a P.G. Wodehouse novel than what one usually expects of Dickens. (Almost literally so...what else can you say about a farcical novel starring a London clubman of independent means, kind and generous, a confirmed bachelor who is nevertheless fair game for the matrimonial schemes of predatory females, and not terribly clever (although Samuel Pickwick, like Bertie Wooster seems to get more intelligent over the course of his adventures). Pickwick's valet Sam Weller soon begins to dominate his naive master, extricating him from difficulties much as Reginald Jeeves would later do for Wooster. That is, if one can imagine a (very long) Wodehouse novel about Bertie Wooster and Jeeves, with the action interrupted every so often while Bertie reads a (completely serious) account by Sir Roderick Glossop or "Stinker" Pinker of the experiences of their mental patients or parishioners--but it works surprisingly well. <> Very likely. I couldn't understand that as a boy (knowing I could always read without *my* glasses without holding the book up close), but I certainly do now that I can't read a map after dark in the car...unless I take my contact lenses out, which obviously he couldn't do. (Though you'd think, if he had that trouble, he'd have invested in large-print editions...or did those exist at the time?) Eric Gjovaag wrote: << <> If you'll recall, my own theory (even though it sounds like Martin Gardner's) was that it wasn't Ozian orientation so much as the Wogglebug's, due to his left and right sides having been reversed when Professor Nowitall highly magnified him... Dick Randolph wrote: <> Many thanks to you (and Gili and everyone else) for your interest! She's happily nursing them across the room as I type this, but I'd better get out and give them some privacy soon! Take care, all... Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 19:54:27 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digerst For Bill Wright in Oslo: On your request for info on futuristic music from the Wizard of Oz, I have never encountered the song you cite. I do know that 1. Witzmark was the publisher of the early play music, and 2. After the initial successful run on Broadway, the play, which ran for many years, was frequently freshened up with new songs. Most of these were printed by other publishers, so the Spacecraft song must have been fairly early on, I'd say before the start of WW i. Perhaps the best authorities on Oz Music are Marc Lewis (Gryphon Books, 2246 Broadway, NY, NY 10024) and David Maxine (201+743-4749). You may wish to contact them. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:28:21 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for digest, yeah, really this time! We have just got back from Winkies. I was sorry to see the negative reaction on the name issue. As far as the Digest need be concerned, the matter is closed. Please let's leave it that way. I apologize for making any friction. From a dealer's viewpoint, at least, Winkies was a grand success! I now have the money to put toward the next book! This exceeds any expectations I may have had. So A Queer Quest for Oz will be off to the printer asap! As for the Con itself, the theme was collecting. Most of the scheduled programs were informative for anyone who is interested in first editions, etc. For those of us who really aren't into that aspect of Oz, there was also a perfectly hilarious parody of the Phil Donahue show (sorry, I have not seen the original, but I'm told that Pete Hanff's impersonation was very good!). Languidere was among the collectors in the show, and Robin Olderman played Miss Behavior perfectly. It was a very FUNNY presentation, and I hope it will be repeated at other Cons. Rinny won the adult quiz, so I guess this probably means that she is supposed to write the quizzes for both Quadling and Winkie next year, huh? If that is the case, we will make it a goal to get through enough of the backlog to have one of her books printed by then that she can give as a prize. Great news! The calendar was there! I finally got to see it, and it was very nice. Now I just need to get copies to distribute among the contributors. Any Club folk know who I should ask about that? Someone asked about the Dark Ages of Oz. Yeah, it is a book by Gil Joel which takes place well before Ozma took the throne. The story takes place mostly (solely, actually) in the Gillikin Country, but deals with early issues that affected all of Oz. This pre-Ozma Gillikin territory was first introduced in a collaboration between Rinny and me entitled Moonstruck in Oz (no relation to Abbott's character, so far as I know), but both will take a while to see publication. I do have an extensive backlog still, you know. Welcome back to Nate Barlow. He wrote most of Fwiirp in Oz, so I really should provide him copies for his portfolio even as I continue to nag him for a copy of his Polychrome manuscript. Maybe someone can give me his address so that I can take this matter into private e-mail where it should be? Guess that's all I really need to respond to that I can remember. Of course, 'tis hard to remember a whole week's worth at once. If I have missed anyone, please let me know. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 21:11:25 -0400 From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ages of Oz I like the MOPPet concerning the enchantment of Oz and having it both ways as to Ozma's claim to rule. Does it occur to anybody that it was very much in the wicked witches' interest to stop the enchantment which would complete the translation of the land into a fairyland? In a land where no one could die, or be seriously hurt, it would have been much more difficult for them to keep their control on their slaves. As to the Age of Darkness/Shadows, why not just The Age of Nationalism, since it appears that it would have been during this period that the four quarters took on their individual characters? Let's get totally off the wall here. Pastoria is deposed by the four witches. His widowed queen is at the time either carrying a yet unborn Ozma, or, Ozma is a tiny baby. (The second makes more sense since it may have been the witches' conviction that this was, in fact, finally THE Ozma that they had to look out for which provoked their insurrection.) Ozma, being a fairy, could not be killed. But being either unborn, or newborn, could be neutralized, by either transformation or cast into some stasis state where she did not age. This state was sustained through many generations, the witches being already able to unnaturally extend their own lives (although not their youths) due to the degree of magic which had already permeated the land, and which continued to grow, albeit very slowly. The conditions which controlled this state were eventually weakened by the triumphs of Glinda in the South and Locasta in the north, and were finally broken by the Wizard's conquest of the Emerald City area. (I also like someone's earlier theory that the predominating green color of the area was a reflection of the original state of the whole Land, and that it was the colors of the four quarters which was a later development of the age of nationalism.) After the Wizard's reign was established, Ozma was restored to her proper shape and state, that of a newborn infant. Being a fairy, she did not age at normal human rates, This was further complicated by the terms of Lurline's original spells, since Ozma's own existance accellerated the degree of enchantment upon the land, including that of slowing the aging process of its citizens. (Being a fairy, however, and moreover, being a "reborn" fairy, she also carried memories which extended beyond the physical lifespan of her present existance. She was, of course unable to access them, nor would they have done her any good at that time.) The Wizard had learned to tread a very thin line between placation and intimidation with his neighboring rulers. Nor was the montebank a gentleman of the highest ethical character. (However kindly his disposition) He made a number of compromises in order to secure his rule. Ozma, during this time was in the care of some household, its social level unknown, most probably in the vicinity of the ancient kingdom of Morrow. It is also uncertain as to whether her caretakers were aware of her identity, possibly not. A baby who remains a baby for more than the usual span of years (5 or 6, perhaps) would, at that point in history have been regarded as something of a wonder and it would be surprising if such a wonder was not eventually brought to the attention of the Wizard. Research would probably have turned up information that the non-aging infant was likely to be Pastoria's missing heir. And also that her very existance within his realm's boundaries increased the danger of invasion fourfold. We do not know how this information was actually presented to the Wizard, or who his advisors were in his reaching the conclusion that the safest thing for him and his subjects was for the child to dissapear. But that does seem to be the eventual result. We also do not know in just what character the "wise woman" Mombi presented herself to his notice, nor what her long-range plans for the child were. She certainly was not working in concert with either of the two ruling witches, and "Mombi" was unlikely to have been the one under which she had ruled the Gilikens. (MOPPet is that the names of the four ruling witches had in fact been in forms that would have made logical transition to the names of the countries, since the four quarters' national identities resulted largely due to the witches' control over them. Example; The Munchkin Country = the country of Muncha's people.) In any event, the infant was -- through whatever misjudgement or ruse -- eventually turned over to Mombi. Who, needing a servant, turned the infant into a boy. Not into an infant male, a boy big enough to do the chores. This boy (Tip) would have been highly docile, and possibly even somewhat simple-minded in his behavior at the beginning of this existance, having only the maturity of an infant to draw on. But, due to the observations made during the extended period of his/her infancy (5 or 6 years, after all) and with the latent memories from outside his/her own lifespan in addition, he was probably not so backward as to qualify as truely retarded. During this period, Mombi got out of the habit of regarding Tip as presenting any sort of threat to heself, and took his continued obedience for granted. Ozma remained in this form until her eventual disenchantment -- a matter of some 20-30 years, at the outside estimation. During this period, her mental and emotional development gradually caught up to her (gradually aging) physical state, and she had reached a degree of maturity in which she was beginning to get into mischief when Mombi belatedy decided it was safer to neutralize her again by turning her into a marble statue (of what apparant representation is unknown) at which point, Ozma escaped. Upon her disenchantment, some weeks later, she was "reverted" to a physical age which was compatible with her mental and emotional development. That of a young girl just short of puberty. The construction of Lurline's non-aging spell has retarded her fruther development much beyond early teens. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 21:09:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Based on Robin's Report - Apparently Ken and Gen didn't appear in the all-together in the costume event at Winkies! :) How about some more Winky details for those who missed it. Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 02:21:01 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy digest 7-16 responses *please post* Tyler--Re: Period dates [someone's going to make a bad joke about this line]. The dates you want for the periods you mentioned in today's post are: Palaeolithic c. 20,000 - c. 10,000 BC Mesolithic c. 10,000 - c. 7,000 BC Neolithic c. 7,000 - c. 3,000 BC Bronze Age c. 3,000 - 1180 BC Note that all dates are (a) approximate and (b) Eurocentric. The Bronze Age, for instance, started in China before it started in Europe and never got to the New World at all before the arrival of Europeans in the 15th century. The European Bronze Age is generally considered to have ended with the fall of Troy at the end of the twelfth century BC. There are other ages (Iron, Steel, Industrial, Information) but I don't know how well they'll fit into your arrangement. This is the first time I've written an email message while looking at the Mississippi 3 1/2 miles underneath me... --Ken (History Prof) Shepherd ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 16-Jul-96 20:17:17 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "LEFT-COASTERS": Eric wrote: >Sheesh, you make left-coaster sound like a conservative Republican saying >left-wing. Let's face it: We folks on the west coast get no respect! :) Ever notice how the guys on the Weather Channel and other forecasts not only mention the weather on our coast only in passing, but always stand *in front* of the west coast on the map? :) :) OZIAN DATES: Eric wrote: >> year AL 36 (AD 1938) ~~~~~ >Where did THIS come from? And what's the AL stand for? AL stands for Tyler's "Age of Light", and equals the year of Ozma's reign. (AD 1903, the year of Ozma's ascention according to HACC, is AL 1) MORE DINOSAURS: Steve T. wrote: > ... Most people's definition of a dinosaur is reptilian ... ... Therefore dinosaurs are reptiles??? One might just as well argue that most people's sole definition of Oz is the MGM movie, therefore the Oz books are of no account. >The *word* dinosaur means "terrible lizard" ... The word "disaster" means "bad star" -- does that mean that the stars make bad things happen? > ... most birds are not lizards or terrible. Neither are dinosaurs...Dinosaurs are NOT lizards, and they (with the possible exception of the predators) are NOT "terrible" -- unless of course you are using the word "terrible" the way the Wizard would: Terrybubble: Oh, no my dear -- I'm a very *good* dinosaur; I'm just a very bad *lizard*! [ NOW who's going to get groaned at!? :) ] -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 18, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 16:56:53 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-96 Jodel - I loved your explanation of Ozma's age and aging - it works for me. And it seems that my true identity has been discovered. ***********TOP SECRET********* I am the original Wicked Witch of the North. (Gili=Gilliken, get it?) ****************************** |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:30:15 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: *Left-coasters* Eric & Dave H. - Guys!! I am shocked and amazed at your reaction to my innocent use of the term *left-coasters* ! Even rating an Eric "Sheesh" and a Dave (doing his Rodney Dangerfield impression, no doubt) "We . . . . don't get no respect!" I meant no disrespect. It just seems that if I'm on the *right* coast, you must be on the . . . . . . Or did the printer reverse my Wogglebug Map of the USA?? :-) :-) Dick (left to try and set the matter right) Randolph (:-D)!! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 12:12:51 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Ozzy reference and dinos. 1) Just make sure you don't recommend to your son the book by Baum's grandson that (apparently) has a dinosaur in the title (Dynamonster??? in Oz). From what everyone in the digest says, it's terrible. 2) This Ozzy reference came across my virtual desk from the topfive list (top5@walrus.com): > The Top 20 Signs You're Not at the Real Olympics > 9> Competing countries include Oz and the People's Republic of > Hawaii. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:56:25 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: bad lizard Dave: GROAN! Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:02:24 -0400 From: homer To know more about the map of Oz and it's mistakes, read the explanatory booklet that comes with a set of maps from the International Wizard of Oz Club. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:31:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Gili: That story you mentioned also sounds like a short comic story in _Oz Story Magazine #1_, in which an unusual character went to EC and tried to get registered as a celebrity, since he had just completed an Ozzy adventure with Dorothy. He was not accepted, since he was not "unusual enough". Dickens: The only two books of his that I ever read were _A Tale of Two Cities_ and _Christmas Carol_. They were mildly entertaining. I also saw film versions of these two and _Oliver Twist_. Also mildly entertaining. Every time I read an Oz book, I always ask "Please sir, I want some more" (Groan) Chris D: I finally sent the $$$ for _Tin Castle_. I take it that _Queer Quest_ is next on the docket? Ken: Thanks for the dates on the prehistoric (partly) ages. Even though these are approximate (we will probably never be able to draw a definite line in time and say "this is the Bronze Age"), we can assume that there have been people in Oz since about 12,000 B.C.. Dave: In most ancient kingdoms (I'm not sure if Oz qualifies), they counted years from the ascension of the current ruler, such as "The fifth year of Ozroar". In the case of Oz, they are one and the same, since Ozma came in at the beginning of the Age. JOdel: That was a marvelous piece that you wrote concerning the possibilities of Ozma's enchantment and other things. It is true that a fully-enchanted Oz would hurt the Wicked Witches, as the common people could defend themselves better and were not in as much danger as they would normally have been. I really like the theory that Ozma was put into some kind of stasis. Perhaps the Witches were weakened by their battle with Pastoria (and also possibly by consolidating their hold on their various quadrants), and were unable to enchant Ozma. Just to put things in perspective, Aaron and I worked out a rough timeline a while back. According to current HACC theory, the Wizard had been in Oz for about 30 years prior to Dorothy's arrival. Chuck Sabatos had suggested 50, but we felt that was a bit too long. We set the Wizards arrival in 1868 (to avoid the suspicously round 1870) and assumed that he took five years to establish himself in the Emerald City. Further, from evidence gleaned from the FF and non-FF material, we had decided that about a dozen years had elapsed between the overthrow of Pastoria and the arrival of the Wizard. Pastoria was overthrown circa 1856. We also assumed that the Wizard gave up Ozma to Mombi about five years after he established himself in EC. Therefore, according to current HACC theory, Ozma was a baby from 1856 to about 1878, and remained with Mombi for about 25 years after that. How much we "know" of these times partly depends on how much non-FF material you accept. While I do not view _How the Wizard Came to Oz_ as very accurate, I was very impressed by the scholarly attitude of _Oz and the Three Witches_. According to this story, Ozma was a baby who was attended to by an old nurse. One possibility is that Ozma's nurse moved from village to village in order to obscure the fact that Ozma never aged. Even back then, some of the enchantment was beginning, but there was not enough age slowing to explain this fully. ********** SPOILER FOR OZ AND THE THREE WITHCES ********** According to this story, Mombi convinced the Wizard that giving the baby Ozma to her was the best thing to keep Ozma safe. THe Wicked Witches were apparantly responding to prophecies planted by Lurline and were trying to kill Ozma. Mombi said she would protect Ozma. ********** END OF SPOILER FOR OZ AND THE THREE WITCHES ********** I like the idea of Mombi transforming Ozma from a baby girl into an almost-young-man. I can't imagine Mombi doing all the things necessary to take care of a baby. Rumor has it that this is a very tough job. Naturally, all this aging, un-aging and de-aging combined with Ozma's transformation wreaked havoc with Lurline's spell, but it should be all right by now. --Tyler JOnes ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 12:40:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-16-96 > From: HermBieber@aol.com > Subject: For Ozzy Digest > > Robin: > Thanks for a great Winkie Convention write-up. But you forgot to mention the > food, which featured another Asilomar oddity: > Peanut Butter Cream Pie (ugh; burp!). Well *I* liked it (burp!). > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digests since 7/7/96 > > Eric: > I didn't really consider the "Oz Kids" episode shown at the 1995 Winkie to be > based on OZMA OF OZ at all. About the only similarity was the presence of the > Nome King (or more accurately, his son) as villain. It could just as well be > considered to be based on TIK-TOK or EMERALD CITY or GNOME KING, as far as > that goes. Hmm, Nome Prince transforms Dot's friends into ornaments and has her go looking for them... Nope, sorry, don't see the similarity between that story and "Emerald City" or "Gnome King," and the only resemblance to "Tik-Tok" is because the original source material for "Tik-Tok" was consciously TRYING to imitate "Ozma..." FWIW, I doubt many of the "Oz Kids" stories will follow any of their source stories too closely (it would be tough, with different characters and thus different motivations and reactions), but at least we in-the-know will know (or can at least try to figure 'em out). > Eric: > The Frogman doesn't appear in the FF after GLINDA, but he's a major character > in MAGIC DISHPAN. I was referring to the FF. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > However, I believe that a character goes PD when ANY book in which he plays > a major part goes PD. And I believe that that is incorrect. So who do we consult? BTW, I normally don't worry or complain about spelling, since it's so easy to make a mistake while typing away (I do it all the time), but in this case I will make an exception since you were quite consistent. The name of the Wicked Witch of the South in "The Wicked Witch of Oz" is Singra, not the more-awkward-to-say Sringa. > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-96 > > Eric: Philador's name came to me on the shuttle from Monterey to S.F. *DING* You are correct! (For those wondering what this is, it's an answer on the Master's Quiz that stumped Robin during the convention, and she wouldn't let me tell her, preferring to find the answer herself.) > Some of the > DIGESTers really should take that quiz. We have some "Masters" here. Okay, everybody, who wants me to post some excerpts from the Master's quiz once I'm done with the "Jeopardy!" stuff? And if you all ask nicely, maybe Ken C. (/me waves) can post questions from his not-yet-master's quiz as well. > From: Bill Wright > > Received the following request for info. This is one I haven't heard of > before. Does anyone out there have any knowledge of this stage > version/recording?? > Thanks, Bill in Ozlo > ________________ > I'm looking for a recording of an > earlier stage version of the Wizard of Oz. This one, rights owned by > Tams-Witmark, has Dorothy returning in a rocket ship(?) and there is no > Toto. That's all the information I have. Any idea of the existence of a > recording of that version of the show??? Ho, boy, good ol' Tams-Whitmark. They are the current owners of the stage rights to the play -- the musical version, with the songs from the movie -- and thus if you are an amateur dramatic society, and want to put on "The Wizard of Oz," you talk to them, and they get the money. They will also send you a script. An all-right script with a LOUSY ending that I've only seen performed once. This is the version first put on by the St. Louis Light Opera in the late 50's-early 60's, and in the end, it's not Dorothy's shoes that get her home, but the Wizard's rocket ship. Uff da (as my Norwegian ancestors would say)! I've been involved in two productions of this script and seen it performed numerous other times, and as I said, only once have I seen the rocket. Many productions change the ending, and many others change a lot more as well. (When I directed a production back in 1990, I kept the scripts in the box they came in, and just used my own script. The only reason I went through Tams-Whitmark at all was so that we could use the music.) If you ever go see a production of "The Wizard of Oz" on stage, you'll probably see "Produced in arrangement with Tams-Whitmark" (OWTTA -- or words to that affect, for those keeping score at home) in the program and on the poster. And AFAIK there is no "official" film, video, or other recording of this, but I do have both versions that I worked on on amateur home video. --Eric "More than anyone ares to know, I'm sure" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 12:58:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-96 > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: for digest, yeah, really this time! > > For those of > us who really aren't into that aspect of Oz, there was also a perfectly > hilarious parody of the Phil Donahue show (sorry, I have not seen the > original, but I'm told that Pete Hanff's impersonation was very good!). FWIW, I've never seen an episode, either, nor of any other of the current spate of talk shows (it wasn't intended as a spoof of "Donahue," merely the entire genre) -- and I was in charge! > Languidere was among the collectors in the show, and Robin Olderman played > Miss Behavior perfectly. It was a very FUNNY presentation, and I hope it will > be repeated at other Cons. Not in that form! It was all very much off-the-cuff, improvised stuff. I gave Peter a few questions to get the ball rolling and planted a few others out in the audience, but only about half of those were asked. > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Based on Robin's Report - Apparently Ken and Gen didn't appear in the > all-together in the costume event at Winkies! :) NO, thank goodness, especially since I was the one introducing the guests -- er, costumed characters. How would I introduce THAT? Besides, the weather wasn't very hospitable for that kind of costume. > How about some more Winky > details for those who missed it. Well, what do you want to know? And now, "Jeopardy!" time! *BZZZZT* ALEX: Gary! GARY: What is the Wicked Witch of the West? ALEX: That's it! GARY: "The Wizard of Oz" for $300. ALEX: "The road to the City of Emeralds is paved" with this. --Eric "BTW, that's an exact quote from the book" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 21:37:24 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Things :) Here is a simple solution to the "Is Ozma a woman or child?" controversy. Haven't you ever known someone who was chronologically and biologically mature--yet still looked like a kid? Or at least younger than they really were? (Example: the actor who played the teenaged Vinnie on "Doogie Houser, M.D." was in his twenties). Ozma could be that way, thus the merry confusion about how mature she actually is. (I personally know a petite girl in her late twenties who still looks like a teenager!) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:18:59 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission I plan to make my annual pilgrimage to the Munchkin Convention next month and hope that I can stay awake in the evenings this time. Steve T. writes in the 7/4 Digest: Naturally. They don't call us MUNCHkins for nothing, you know. :-) To Eric Gjovaag upon reaching thirty: Does that mean that we can no longer trust you? When is the next issue of _The Oogaboo Review_ due out? Bear (:<) writes in the 7/6 Digest: In '63 the 1620 users group published my paper tape patch loader that allowed intermediate carriage returns. Those were the days -- NOT. Rich Morrissey writes in the 7/10 Digest: Go for it! From personal experience, I know how much better the bifocals will make things now that you have reached this stage. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:20:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS Well friends, the Edward Eager problem is solved. Harcourt Brace has in print Odyssey Classics. These are paperbacks. The following were available at my local children's book store. 54 HALF MAGIC - $6.00 56 KNIGHT'S CASTLE - $3.95 57 MAGIC BY THE LAKE - $5.00 58 THE TIME GARDEN - $6.00 59 MAGIC OR NOT - $3.95 60 THE WELL WISHERS - $6.00 62 SEVEN-DAY MAGIC - $5.00 It is beyond me why the prices are so different. They are all about the same size and they are listed in chronological order? It is hard to tell, but they seem to have been published irregularly in the late 80's and early 90's. Now on to N. S. Gray. "Non-sequiturs, Trivial Observations, Pointless Comments, Needless Repititions and Grandiosity in Oz." Now lets see, who wrote that...... I am happy to hear that there are others (Rich M) who find joy in Dickens. My take along book for last winters Caribbean cruise was "Little Dorritt." I guess Dickens is an acquired taste. If you are ever moved again David, try GREAT EXPECTATIONS. It is one of my favorite books. It has everything. Hmmmm. If you don't like Dickens, I see how you could have missed Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast trilogy. Well, back to Oz..... Dave - It just occurred to me. After you have Ozma marry Norman (or whatever his name is) will she have him officially renamed Ozpa? Back to THE LOST KING OF OZ - Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:52:14 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for digest, but only if you WANT to use it. I don't care. Well, it does seem that my post of about a week ago was not taken as it was meant. For the record, I want it to be known that I have never had any personal disagreement with Dave's delightful book. I had thought I was being clear all along that I really love this book, and I am very excited about it. For all it may be worth, I consider it one of the most exciting projects I've seen in my ten years of Oz publishing. I do not now, nor have I ever had anything but respect for the book! I feel sick that poor Dave actually was under the impression that I no longer cared to publish it. NEVER EVER did I say anything to that effect. I see that I have been badly misrepresented and I am sorry for the mix-up. My intentions were honorable. As is a standard in the publishing world, I did ask for some input from any experts in the field who were willing to offer it. This is a normal practice among all publishers, and I personally have never been willing to be a dictator who demands boldly "This is Oz, and this is not, 'cuz I SAID SO!" I would rather stay low-key and let others be objective readers who can help me to make good decisions (especially since I obviously can't trust my own decisions about anything...) That was all I asked for. Honest input. I was not asking for anyone to rewrite or alter the book, and any potential changes that might have come about would naturally have been up to Dave to decide. In case I have not made it clear, I LOVE THIS BOOK, I think it is wonderful. It is exciting, humorous, and has a real storyline. The illustrations I have seen so far are original and very stylistically creative. I have never said otherwise. I am sorry that this was not understood. In any event, it looks as if the final decision is up to me and, as I told Dave already, I am planning to just go ahead and print the unfamiliar names as they are. This whole mess has left a bad taste in my mouth (though NOT for this lovely book! Please do not misinterpret that, this book is delicious indeed!!!!), and I guess I will just have to learn to be less open-minded in the future. I am not a commercial publishing house, so maybe I shouldn't think I need to be as careful about things as they are... This brings me to the hardest part of this posting. There was an earlier misunderstanding that (fortunately) was censored in time. It is obvious that I can't be on the Digest without getting people to hate me, and I would rather at least a few of you have some decent memories of me. So I am signing off as of today. If Dave wishes to print this, that's fine. I said he could if he wanted to. If he chooses not to, I gave him permission to go that way, too. Either way, I will miss you all. But I see that it is safer if I go away, and that this will mean one less hate campaign that everybody'll feel obliged to keep feeding. Thanks for your attention. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:43:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: PD Characters in Oz 1) Eric, I am under the impression that any major character which is in a PD book is PD, even if he/she happens to also be in a non-PD book. As evidence, I site the case of Kabumpo, who appears in McGraw & McGraw's _The Forbidden Fountain of Oz_ and Quin n's _Red Reera the Yookoohoo and the Enchanted Easter Eggs of Oz_ by virtue of appearing in Thompson's PD _The Silver Princess of Oz_, even though he also appears in the still-under-copyright _Kabumpo in Oz_, _The Lost King in Oz_, and _The Purple Prince in Oz_. ***WARNING: HYPOTHESIS AND MOPPET ALERT*** 2) JOdel, actually, it would not have been in the Wicked Witches' best interests to stop the enchantment of Oz, because a) they would have become deathless along with everyone else, relieving them of the need to use magic to keep them alive (which possibl y has serious side effects), and b) they would be relieved of the expense of having to replace their slaves every few decades (humans wear out and die, you know...). In fact, Ozma's ascent probably had nothing to do with deathlessness in Oz; Mo and Ozama land are also deathless, but neither has a fairy ruler. Also: In the Adelmanian model (for a little variety): * Ozma was given to Pastoria and Ozette, not born to them (in a manner spookily similar to Jesus), as stated in _The Lost King of Oz_. * The rule of Mombi in the north and the Wicked Witch of the South (NOT Singra) was no longer than it took for Locasta and Glinda respectively to depose them. * Ozma was never left in the care of any member of Pastoria's household; she was transformed into a turtle and lost. * Ozma spent several years as a turtle, during which period she barely aged at all. After she returned to human form (due to an accident), she aged at the normal human rate, even after she was transformed into a male infant. * Magic exists which prevents the magical detection of people and objects. * The Mombi who raised Tip is identical with THE Wicked Witch of the North, as noted in (IIRC) _Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz_. * The Munchkins are named after the House of Munch (literally Munch + the ethnic suffix -kin), which were the titular rulers of Munchkinland during the Ozmatic era until the rediscovery of Cheeriobed. What the house of Munch is named after is undecided, though Professor Wogglebug tells me that _munch_ is an Old Ozzish word for 'east'. ***END WARNING*** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:54:13 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Bear: Further to your request for more Winkie Convention information, The costume party was the usual blast - much better than the competition at Ozmopolitan. Besides the usual represaentatives of the fairer sex (Glinda, Ozma, Scraps, Polychrome, etc.) and the Fighting Tree mentioned by Robin, noteworthy costumes included the Soldier with the Green Whiskers (aka E.G.) and a child dressed as a cyclone. Sadly it didn't spin. Some representative auction results included: Tin Woodman in dj with 12 cp, vgd++ ($200); Gnome King, 1st ed. in dj, Vgd+ ($500); 1981 Smithsonian Oz Tea Set ($275), Emerald City, 12 cp, vgd+ ($75); Laughing Dragon, vgd ($210); Dot & Wiz., 1st state, hgs rep. ($275); same, but reprint with 16 cp in dj ($100); Glinda 1st ed., vgd ($140); same, with Oz Map laid in ($180); Queen Zixi, 1st ed. gd+ ($110); Kabumpo, 12 cp, vgd ($110); Merry-Go- Round, 1st ed., signed ($300); Boy Fortune Hunters in Alaska, 3rd St., vgd ($130); Who's Who in Oz, 1st ed. in dj, vgd+ ($200); large poster of RPT Gingerbread Man ($250); Shaggy Man, 1st ed in dj, vgd+ ($350); Giant Horse, 1st ed. in dj, vgd+ ($450); Magican Mimics, 1st ed., vgd_ ($90); Wizard of Oz 1902 sheet music ("Sammy"), vgd ($25); early color Patchwork Girl reprint, vgd+ ($75), Handy Mandy, 1st ed., vgd+ ($140); Phoebe Daring, 1st ed., vgd+ ($60); Tik-Tok, 12 cp reprint, vgd++ ($80); 1960 Bugle, xmas issue ($135); same, Aug. issue ($90); Tin Woodman, b&w reprint, vgd+ ($15); Zauberlinds, fine ($45). This auction made over $6000 profit for the club, and these monies are used to help defray Bugle publishing costs. As you can see, some of these prices are on the high side, and some are true bargains. Prices depend upon who is bidding and how badly they want something, and they may be quite different at Munchkins. One has to average the results of several auctions to get a true sense of price trends. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 19, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 06:21:09 -0700 (MST) From: "Ozma@asu.edu" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-18-96 Can I ask this here? -- Just in case any of you ever finds an old Oz book inscribed "To Sandra Sutton" and maybe "from Grandmommy" -- those were mine. :( I would love to find them again. I left the box with a friend in California who then moved! You can imagine how I feel about this. Sandy Andrews ozma@asu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:31:48 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Oz Mike T. THE DINOMONSTER OF OZ is by Baum's son, Kenneth Gage Baum, not grandson, and it is not terrible, albeit it is not one of the best. It is the best Oz book written by a descendent of LFB, better than LAUGHING DRAGON, by Frank [Joslyn] Baum or than the productions of Baum's great-grandson, Roger, who has managed to capitalize on his predecessor's name [I first typed nome] unlike Kenneth Gage or Frank Joslyn. Don't knock it if you haven't read it. Ozbucket: (If you are reading this) I, for one don't want to see you leave the digest (after all you were the one who told ME about it). You must not confuse disagreement with hate. You intentionally introduced a topic for contraversy a little while ago. Just because some digestees (digesters? what do we call ourselves) disapprove of one part of one posting does not mean that you are a thorn in the flesh of the digest. When you returned from you involuntary exile caused by change of e-mail providers there was great rejoicing. Herm: Thanks for the auction report. Please continue to post them. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 10:36:46 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-18-96 At 06:35 AM 7/18/96 -0500, you wrote: >Some representative auction results included: > >Dot & Wiz., 1st state, hgs rep. ($275) >Gnome King, 1st ed. in dj, Vgd+ ($500) >Giant Horse, 1st ed. in dj, vgd+ ($450) >Shaggy Man, 1st ed in dj, vgd+ ($350) Herm, I think it would be useful to all to note that the first state Dorothy and the Wizard was pretty beat up. The hinges were not repaired, but badly in need of it. The cloth and paper cover label were also moderately to heavily soiled. This book could be graded (at best) as good only. The Gnome King and Giant Horse wer VERY nice, but the jackets were pretty badly tattered. I personally felt it was nearing the point where the jackets were more of a drawback (as they drove up the price) than an asset. The Shaggy Man was a VERY nice book in a VERY nice jacket. Mike Denio ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 18:38:47 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-18-96 Bear - GROOOOAN! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:44:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-18-96 > From: DIXNAM@aol.com > Subject: *Left-coasters* > > Eric & Dave H. - > Guys!! I am shocked and amazed at your reaction to > my innocent use of the term *left-coasters* ! Even rating an Eric "Sheesh" > and a Dave (doing his Rodney Dangerfield impression, no doubt) "We . . . . > don't get no respect!" I meant no disrespect. It just seems that if I'm on > the *right* coast, you must be on the . . . . . . You are not on the right coast, you are on the East coast. It all depends on which direction you are facing. I had a geography teacher in high school who made it VERY clear that you don't go up on a map, you go north -- IF that's the way the map was oriented. > From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY > Subject: Ozzy reference and dinos. > > 1) Just make sure you don't recommend to your son the book by > Baum's grandson that (apparently) has a dinosaur in the title > (Dynamonster??? in Oz). From what everyone in the digest says, it's > terrible. That's "The Dinamonster of Oz" by Kenneth Gage Baum, who was Baum's son (only one generation off), and another reason to not recommend it is that there is no dinosaur in it. > From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) > Subject: Digest Submission > > To Eric Gjovaag upon reaching thirty: Does that mean that we can no > longer trust you? When is the next issue of _The Oogaboo Review_ due > out? The old saying is, "Never trust anyone who's OVER thirty." I've got about six months to go before I meet THAT criteria. As for "The Oogaboo Review," I'll start publishing it again on a regular basis if I get people to actually contribute articles, the week is expanded to nine days, and there are at least thirty hours in every day. Everybody, I am VERY upset over this whole thing with Chris Dulabone. Believe it or not, you can all be very hurtful and insensitive at times, and as a result I nearly quit the Digest twice. Now you have driven Chris away. I've already written to Chris, asking him to reconsider, but I have no idea if it will work or not. I'm sure I'm going to get flamed, or at least singed, for this, but I must say it anyway: When I make a mistake, I learn from it and change my ways, and I hope Chris will as well. But now I see I'm not the only one who needs to. Perhaps some other readers of this Digest need to as well. You must remember, all of these names and e-mail addresses are not just electrons crawling around on your monitor. There is a person there, a real live flesh-and-blood human being with feelings. And not all of those people on the other end are as thick-skinned as the others. Sure, you had the right to tell Chris (and Dave, for that matter) that he was off base -- but how did you say it? And how many of you did it? Even if they were all kind and sensitive (and knowing this crowd, that probably wasn't the case), the overwhelming numbers may have been too much. I know Chris personally, I know he's trying to do the best job he can and put out the best product that his limited resources allow. I don't always agree with what he puts out or how he does it (I've been telling him for YEARS that he needs to get some better publicity out), but I have every respect for what he's trying to do. Let's not let one mistake ruin all that he's done! > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: PD Characters in Oz > > 1) Eric, I am under the impression that any major character which is in a > PD book is PD, even if he/she happens to also be in a non-PD book. And I am under a different impression. Which is why we need someone with more knowledge and understanding of current American copyright law to solve this. We can't solve the problem by everyone saying "I may be right." "No, I may be right, thus you may be wrong." > As > evidence, I site the case of Kabumpo, who appears in McGraw & McGraw's > _The Forbidden Fountain of Oz_... Faulty evidence, as the McGraws and the Club got permission from the Thompson estate to use him. > ...and Quin n's _Red Reera the Yookoohoo and > the Enchanted Easter Eggs of Oz_ by virtue of appearing in Thompson's PD > _The Silver Princess of Oz_, even though he also appears in the > still-under-copyright _Kabumpo in Oz_, _The Lost King in Oz_, and _The > Purple Prince in Oz_. But if those authors used the false presumption that he is not under copyright when in fact he is, then "Red Reera" may be a book that violates copyright law. Just because it's been published doesn't mean it's legal. Of course if I'm proven wrong, I will gladly acknowledge it, but for now I choose to err on the side of caution. (Where's the bloody copyright lawyer?) With that, unless someone has something new to add to the argument (as opposed to a restatement of a previous position), I hope we can close this discussion, because it's dragged out too long already. And now for something completely different: ALEX: Gary? GARY: What is gold? ALEX: No. ALEX: Carol Ann? CAROL ANN: What is yellow brick? ALEX: That is correct. GARY: "The Wizard of Oz" for $400. ALEX: In Chapter 3 he becomes Dorothy's first traveling companion, not counting Toto --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:36:44 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 07-16-96 ROBIN: Thanks for the quote on the Thompson reprint with DJ. That's about what I paid for it. I thought it was a *bit* high, but it really is in such nice shape. -Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:41:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Mike: The book in question in _Dinamonster in Oz_ by one of Baum's sons. By itself, it is a good book, but it is not very "Ozzy" and the HACC committee, by a vote of 1-0, has declared it historically inaccurate to mainstream Oz. It may still be in the HACC, but only because I have not taken it out yet. Eric: The PD question remains unanswered. Perhaps Peter Glassman can shed some light for Dave's FAQ. All: Some of you know that CompuServe is closing the Tucson office tomorrow, so I am out of a job and maybe out of an e-mail address. I will get in touch with Dave via e-mail as soon as everything is straightened out, so stay tuned! --Tyler "They've already taken my desk!" Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 23:44:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Scott Olsen From Scott Olsen I wasn't going to mention this but the DONAHUE (or talk show) parady at the Winkie convention keeps getting mentioned--and I'm surprised that there are some who have never seen the original program! (Of course, I'm over 35--but less than 40), I, um, was on the DONAHUE show last November with my wife and little boy (not Oz related) and Phil Donahue is really a nice guy. Therefore I'm sure Peter Hanff did a good job. Did he dye his hair gray? :) Scott O. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 22:46:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: DIGEST Hi, Earl! How long have you been "lurking" on the DIGEST? For those of y'all who don't know him, Earl is a deceptively quiet fella; it took me several years to discover the witty writer behind the unassuming facade. I hope he continues to contribute to the DIGEST. Chris: I know you enjoy the DIGEST and I know that many of us enjoy your contributions to it. Please don't unsubscribe. --Robin ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 20, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 08:38:54 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: For the Digest I, too, hope Chris reconsiders. This sort of thing goies on with almost every digest I've ever received, and most usually a lot worse than what happens here. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 09:41:02 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 07-19-96 Eric wrote: >Everybody, I am VERY upset over this whole thing with Chris Dulabone. >Believe it or not, you can all be very hurtful and insensitive at times, >and as a result I nearly quit the Digest twice. Well, I don't think *ALL* on the digest have been hurtful and insensitive. I must admit that there have been many occasions when I thought about unsubscribing. The main two reasons are that (1) I have liitle interest in debates about what is "historically accurate" and (2) some of the dialog here is rather fierce. The folks I meet through the Oz Club are some of the nicest, friendliest and, well... OZZY people around. That isn't always obvious when reading the Digest. One of the unique aspects of this medium is speed. But I fear that often in the rush to respond and offer our opinions, we forget basic manners. I would enjoy the discussions more if the atmosphere were that of a casual conversation in a friend's home. Disagreements are inevitable, but let's keep things in perspective: we are talking about THE WIZARD OF OZ. Is this really worth hurt feelings and bruised egos? I think that the Digest could benefit greatly from a more careful consideration about what we post. Not everything needs to be responded to! More selective, thoughtful, and curtious responses will lighten the atmosphere here, allow other more quiet voices to be heard, and (hopefully) avoid the situation of members stomping off in anger. Cheers to ALL, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 09:43:32 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 07-19-96 SANDY: Wouldn't it be amazing to find YOUR old Oz books? I seem to remember such a story in the Bugle (?) once. Someone came across an Oz book with their own childish handwriting on the ownership page. Does anyone else recall this, or did I just bump my head duriong that last twister? Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 11:33:33 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Mike Denio: Thanks for the auction addendum. I was deliberately trying to keep details at a minimum to keep the posting from being overly long (and boring!). I do have more complete notes on all of the transactions, if anyone wants more specific info. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 09:26:37 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: Winkies Hi all, after Winkies it feels like I'm stuck in Kansas, and it has been a pretty exhausting week so far. This is just the promise of a longer post later... We were going to behave ourselves at the auction, but the prices were astonishing. Patrick, Eric and Robin were a terrific team, and kept the energy level high throughout. Gen and I left with a shelf full of books for less than we have paid in the past for a single title. My favorite find was a map of Oz that Patrick identified as a fold-in included with first editions of Glinda of Oz; but somebody (I can't recall who) said that it was a premium available through the mail from Reilly & Lee. The compass rose has W on the left and E on the right, and is otherwise identical with the Tik-Tok endpapers. It has a sort of banner on the reverse, with four geometric triangles meeting a green Oz logo in the center. It may be the flag of Oz! I'll be happy to post the quiz, I was astonished that Marin Xiques (?) (I hope I'm not mangling the name, I can't find it in print here at the moment) got nearly every answer correct in a masterful performance. Can anybody here just stand up and recite the bottled virtues added to Scraps during her creation and follow it up with a Patches-style curtsy? Lea Thorin came close with about a third of the answers right. The Saturday party was a blast. The 17 and 12 yr. olds Gen and I were talking with were David and Steven Koontz. Steven and David both have Pentium computers running 3d studio Max, and have a great collection of video games they have to hide from their Dad so that he won't play them till six in the morning. Humph. I'm not jealous. Really. I don't even have to hide my video games. Eric put it best with his costume categories: children, and bigger children. There must be an some kind of an anti-aging spell that energizes Asilomar during Winkies. more reporting later... Ken Cope ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 10:14:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-19-96 First off, before I say anything else, I want to apologize for my rant in the last Digest. It was overblown and unfair, in that I basically attacked everybody here, when I KNOW it couldn't have been. Perhaps one or two people got under Chris' skin, but that's no reason for me to lash out at everybody. I reread what I said today and I'm very embarrassed. I'm sorry. But I hope many people here can understand my frustration at this, because this sort of thing keeps happening here. Then I jump in and defend somebody -- first Peter Glassman, and now Chris -- and I end up becoming the new target. Therefore, I have decided to lay low -- VERY low -- for a while on the Digest. I will still receive it, and read it every day, but for the next thirty days I will not say anything unless I am specifically asked. It's become obvious to me that it's not necessary for me to post a reply every day, enough other people can answer the same questions I can, and I've gotten enough backlash against the length of my posts that I'm sure many of you will welcome the shorter Digests. So, I am now a lurker until August 18th -- I'll be back in time for Ozma's birthday. But before I go, I will finish off that "Jeopardy!" category: ALEX: Gary. GARY: Who is the...Cowardly Lion? ALEX: No. ALEX: Carol Ann? CAROL ANN: Who is the Cowardly Lion? ALEX: The Scarecrow was first, yes. Now let's take a look at the last clue ["Wizard of Oz" for $500]. Uncle Henry's wife. CAROL ANN: Who is Aunite Em? ALEX: That's right. One more thing: If you want Chris back, e-mail him and tell him, like I did. Maybe we can get him back if he knows he's missed. But if you write to him here, he won't see it. That address again: OzBucket@aol.com. --Eric "If I have anything to say, it won't be until August 18" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 13:31:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: DIGEST Steve and other quizmeister-punsters: We now know how the Scarecrow could become in-Seine. How 'bout telling me when, in THE WIZARD, he was--shall we say--"Polish"? ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 15:23:05 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Tyler and his job Thanks to all on the corrections to DINAMONSTER. Well, I *thought* folks here didn't like it. <*shrug*>. I just thought I'd mention it, since no one else on the "dinosaur" thread did. Tyler: > Some of you know that CompuServe is closing the Tucson office tomorrow, > so I am out of a job and maybe out of an e-mail address. I will get in > touch with Dave via e-mail as soon as everything is straightened out, so > stay tuned! [Office of Kim P. Serve, head of CompuServe] Sycophant: Ms. Serve, ma'am, we've been going over the records, and there is a problem. Kim: Hmmm? Sycophant: There seems to be a deluge of e-mail to and from our competitor, Delphi, coming from the Tucson office. Kim: Probably a mole working in our office. Can you trace the CompuServe worker responsible? Sycophant: No, but the e-mail address at the other end is DAVEH47@DELPHI.COM Kim: Darn! Well, we have no choice then but to shut down the entire Tucson operation until we root out this problem! > > --Tyler "They've already taken my desk!" Jones > Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:12:12 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-19-96 Eric: You are absolutely correct. I am, indeed, on the East coast! My attempt at humor was, alas, a poor one. :-( I too was disturbed by Chris leaving the Digest, and have e-mailed him privately with my argument against him doing so. I assume your statement "you can all be very hurtful and insensitive at times" is directed at some particular individual(s), and not at the majority of Digest subscribers. I find it very difficult to believe any of the regular contributors feel hate toward any of his/her fellow subscribers. If I did, I would terminate my subscription. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 19:50:03 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-16-96 >Greek! Yes, whether we like it or not, same-sex love was an acceptable >aspect of ancient Greek culture that was encouraged. ...with the unfortunate side-effect that heterosexual love was pretty much dismissed. Women in Greek society were largely regarded as baby-making machines -- necessary, yes, but for a truly _serious_ relationship, why of course a man needed another man, who could be his equal. Of course, no-one really took romantic love seriously until the middle ages, anyhoo.... // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 20:00:16 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-96 Hmmm.... Getting off topic, I fear, but this really needs correction. >Most people's >definition of a dinosaur is reptilian, not birdlike. The *word* dinosaur >means "terrible lizard"; most birds are not lizards or terrible. "Most people" are flat wrong. The evidence is pretty much overwhelming that dinosaurs were not reptiles, let alone lizards. They walked upright on their hind legs at first, and even the later, larger ones that reverted to a four-legged stance were as four-leggedly upright as any mammals, whereas all reptiles have splayed legs or none at all. They were also almost certainly warm-blooded, and some, at least, cared for their young in nests. Furthermore, the birds arose as a new branch among the dinosaurs about half as far back in time as the reptiles, dinosaurs, and mammals arose from the amphibians, which constitutes some argument for them not being classed as peers. ... On another subject, I feel I should warn that the "dinosaurs killed by the Bomb" thing _has_ been done. I don't recall who did it, but it might have been Asimov. ... Query. If there was always magic in Oz, was there magic before the appearance of genus Homo? Were there talking animals? // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 21:02:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Herm and others - thanks for sharing more about Winkies. Maybe next year. It is pretty clear from the prices that only the most determined or wealthy Oz collector is going to pick up any of those. Sandy Andrews - If you have the friends name and any other info you may be able to track her down. There is now a phone book for the USA on CD. I have access to one. I used it to find a whole bunch of people for a class reunion. If it is a woman and she has married, you have a problem. However, you can try her siblings and parents if any. Mutual friends? If you know what school she went to that is another possibility. Also, most sororities and fraternities have directories. If none of these things work, you are welcome to let me know and I will try to give you some more ideas. (The only thing worse than making off with someone's Oz books would be making off with their children!) Good Luck. Gili - Thanks for the >GROOOOAN! It makes it all worthwhile. :) Singe Incoming - Well Eric, thank you for the sermon and the blanket condemnations. I didn't read anything in the Digest IMHO that could have caused such a reaction by Chris. Therefore, it must have happened off the Digest. As a result, I don't see why Chris has bailed out and deprived us of his contributions? I also hope he will return. I can't stand it. Phil Donahue is a nice guy! My ...... Phil is the grandfather of the museum of societal decay format otherwise known as Talk Shows. As in Oprah, Geraldo, Sally Jessie, ad nauseum. Collectively they have done more to destroy our society.....snarl, growl, gnash, ja;ljfajflk akljfaj;tfja;rfja;lfmlajf; No Dave! Don't! (STOMP)........ Flatly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 21:25:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Eric: I once saw an "upside down" map, with south on top, and it looked pretty weird, although it was as accurate as the "normal" way. However, most people have north on top in their maps for historical reasons. On Chris Dulabone: I hope that Chris does not leave the digest. He is much needed, and his knowledge of the written world of Oz is unparalleled. It is true that people on the digest can sometimes get a little pointed with their disagreements, but I believe that at least some of this is the result of spoken words being put into text format. There is no feeling or emotion behind them, so words sometimes come off as harsher than they really are. The important thing to remember is that there will always be disagreements and differences of opinion (and this is a good thing), but we must always be respectful of and courteous to one another. _A Copyright Lawyer in Oz_. Rumpole of the Bailey journeys to Oz to discover just who is PD and who is not. As Eric says, just because person X appears in a book does not mean that person X is PD. The author may have put him/her in and hoped that he would not get sued. Eric again: I take it that the "Wizard of Oz" category was not a straight-run thing? Apparantly, I still have my original e-mail address. Sometime in the near future, I will switch to: 70003.6136@compuserve.com Note that the csi part is (or will be) gone. BTW, CompuServers must use a comma instead of a period and leave out the non-numeric part. --Tyler "Wish me luck on my Monday interview" Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 22:05:16 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Real quick, as I gotta keep going-- Eric, I wonder if the responce for "today's" Jeoparody question will be "who is" or "what is". An interesting semantic point. Short Digests lately! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Friday 19-Jul-96 19:54:51 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FAQ: Just in case anyone was wondering: My other current projects/obligations and the lack of feedback about new questions has caused me to postpone revising the Ozzy Digest FAQ for the time being. ( Is "postpone for the time being" a redundant statement? :) :) :) ) CHRIS: Thanks for all your messages expressing hope that Chris D. will remain on the Digest! But since I don't think he is reading the Digest at this point, I think your messages will have clout only if you E-mail him privately. (Please do!) One thing: Chris has E-mailed me in reply to my own private entreaties that he stay, and he has the idea that the number of people who want him *off* of the Digest is equal to the number of people subscribed to the Digest minus the number of people who have privately E-mailed him asking him to stay. So he currently thinks that only six people want him to stay on the Digest but that 117 want him to unsubscribe! Obviously this is not the case because many people on the Digest are "lurkers" who generally do not contribute to public discussions, and cannot be assumed to be in favor of his unsubscribing by default. I told him this, but if I might suggest, it might help to reiterate this in your messages to him. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 21, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 11:49:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-20-96 From : Barbara DeJohn Hi Digest !!! Eric, I for one will miss your comments. If the digest is too short I feel cheated. I say the longer the better. Perhaps we should read everyones messages with a big smile and a happy tone of voice so we don't mistake the intentions. (except Bear because his are growls) :-) My daughter Laurel went to a revue put on by students from Huntington College. One of the performers billed herself as "the most avid Wizard of Oz fan in the world." Her name is Shaana Averill. Now maybe Dave could meet her wearing an Oz button or hat and she could say " I love Oz too" and the rest will be history. Barbara DeJohn 10333.323.@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:32:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest New home: I am now officially 70003.6136@compuserve.com. Note that the CSI is gone forever and that CompuServers wishing to e-mail me privately must take that period and make it into a comma, and they should only use the numeric part. Mike: Aha! I knew that's what was going on, and Bob Massey obviously disguised himself as a woman to hide what he was doing. Oh, well. Maybe I'll get lucky and land a job in the big town of Phoenix. John Kennedy: IMHO, there was magic before humans arrived, as I believe that magic is an independent power source that does not need humans to make it exist. However, without intelligent minds to guide this energy, it just exists, although it could manifest itself in the form of slightly magical plants and animals. Current HACC theory says that animals began to talk only after Lurline enchanted the Land, although animals could easily have been more intelligent than their counterparts in our world, due to magical influences, and certain magical creatures, such as dragons, probably had the powers of speech and magic long before Lurline. Dave: "Temporarily" postponing something sounds vaguely similar to people who annouce that they will call a press conference to give the date of when they plan to annouce that they are considering announcing that they may run for president. I will mail Chris privately and beg him to return. I hope that many of you will do the same. I seriously doubt that anyone wants him off the digest. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 11:40:36 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Wogglebug. Robin: The Scarecrow was certainly "pole-ish" before Dorothy got him down from the pole at their first meeting. But the Tin Woodman certainly had more "polish"--especially after he was nickel-plated. (When I first read Ben Jonson's late play THE MAGNETIC LADY, I was confused by a character names *Polish* because there seemed to be no Slavic connection. It was only later that I realized that I had been mispronouncing her name.) BTW: remember the verse from ROYAL BOOK when Scraps described the Scarecrow's ancestry (and apologies for minor misquotation, I don't have my books in the same building): "A Cornishman upon my soul, Descended from a long, thin Pole." Please, let us leave dinosaurs out of the digest. (Present company excepted) Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 18:29:57 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com [NOTE: Chris is still officially off of the Digest (He hasn't said otherwise, anyway), but he gave me this message saying that I could "use it as I saw fit". He didn't exclude posting it to the Digest outright, so... :) -- Dave] I consulted a very expen$ive Copyright lawyer way back when Melody and I first started talking about Blue Mountains. The question concerned the Red Jinn. He is in the PD volume Silver Princess, but FIRST appeared in Jack Pumpkinhead. He has also appeared in other books before and since SP (the latter being RPT's YANKEE). Her official word as a high-paid authority on the matter is that he can appear ONLY as he was in Silver Princess. If he picked up any distinguishing new characteristics in another book, and these were not included in SP but were used in Melody's book, there is an infringement of Copyright. However, a Copyright is only as good as the Copyright Holder's willingness to enforce it. If a character that SHOULD be still protected by Copyright should happen to appear illegally (for example, Trickolas Om was unlawfully used by Harry Mongold) and the Copyright Holder does not make any retaliation, the Copyright is considered null and void after a certain number of years (IIRC, it was usually seven). I do not happen to believe in that second thing. It may be legal now to use Trickolas, but I still think it is immoral. It is, however, perfectly acceptable to use a proper noun any time. Names or places cannot be Copyrighted. Therefor, if we wanted to say "Ozma invited Kermit the Frog, Mike Hammer, Big Bird, Alex Mack and Shelby Woo to the party," it would be perfectly legal. Nickelodeon might be a little feather-ruffled, and they might TRY to say that we were abusing their Trademarks or something. But they would have to prove that our doing this in some way took credibility away from their characters or cost them money. As this is obviously not possible, they would never carry it that far. On a similar subject, illustrations can have anyone in them, so long as it is original art. For example, I could get Melody to draw a picture of Alex Mack and it could be a dead ringer for in all ways, and as long as it is Melody's own work and is not being represented as Nickolodeon's, it is legal. The artwork on the cover of Fwiirp in Oz had a bit more trouble getting published. It is legal to make a collage of anything you want, and you can sell it at any price you can get. But if you want to print or copy it in any way, there is some danger. The people at the Trademark office were especially concerned about Kermit and Miss Piggy. Their suggestion was to reverse the colors before we printed it, and register the collage as a separate work unto itself. That is why Kermit is pink. I know that it looks like a mistake, but I rather like it. I think it's trippy! Lillith DOES appear in Greek mythology as a goddess, but it is not the same Lillith as the Jewish baby-killer. Also, the reviewer failed to notice it, but he might have made the same error concerning Kole. As for the idea that the goddesses had no association, how does anyone know what the goddesses did in private? Judging from what Jupiter was doing with Ganymede, I have to suspect that they did a LOT of things that they probably didn't make public. As you know, I was considering writing a book to explain all of these issues. I might include a reference to Lillith (that's Frazier's wife, isn't it?) or Kole, and even possibly that association, but I am too far removed to deal with the Ganymede thing. I will add that my mythology book describes him as "a beautiful young Trojan prince who was seized and carried up to Olympus by Zeus's eagle." I usually use the word "beautiful" to describe a woman, so Marcus was close... I think I will get out my OUIJA board and see what Marcus has to say in his own defense. As I mentioned before, he was a student of classical mythology on the college level for four years. How could he have overlooked Ganymede's male-ness? Maybe there is another Ozma/Tip story here for Melody to write... ;-) Yesterday, I received a roomful of books. I hope you'll order a Tin Castle, as I have too many of them for myself, and they really do take up a lot of room! They are HUGE (well, 8 1/2 x 11, the size of Forbidden Fountain, Ozmapolitan, etc.). The covers are in full color. I was as proud of Rinny as Ken. Probably more so, actually... It is true that not many people could name all of the brain qualities that went into the Patchwork Girl off the top of their heads and follow it up with a Scraps-like curtsy. But Rinny has a lot of amazing talents. Among them is her writing, which I hope to get some of into the backlog some day. I need to find faster illustrators, though. The main reason her writings are not getting ready to print is that they have no pictures. It really is sad to have to use volunteer services. If I could just hire the Hildebrandts to do it, I probably wouldn't have to wait so long. In any case, we do plan to publish one of our collaborations in time to use it as a prize for the next Oz quiz (which Rinny is now obligated to write). This one is called A Silver Elf in Oz, and was beautifully illustrated by the late Marcus Mebes. Not that the silver elf himself is beautiful, but I think he knew Ganymede. If you plan to attend, one of the questions Rinny will be asking is "what is the fifteenth word on page 47 of Rinkitink in Oz?" Is that too easy? I hope I'm kidding... ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 02:32:16 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-20-96 Ha! I wish I could get as much money as the Jeopardy contestants did for knowing the questions to all those answers! That was way easy... (how's my American slang?) Ken C. - sounds like you had a great time at Winkies again this year...thanks for your report! Robin and Bear and other punny animals - here's a riddle for you: who was the first Ozzy citizen to "rock and roll", in one of the FF books? (Or have I asked that already?) |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 18:21:46 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff I tried to post this for yesterday, but I must have been having problems with my modem. . . With all this talk about Oz prehistory and specifically the age of the Witches, I wondered if anyone knows of a more detailed account of what happened between the Wizard and the WWoW and her winged monkeys. Has an author covered this in another book, FF or not? It seems kinda wierd that the Wizard posed much of a threat to the WWoW that she needed to drive him out of her country. THis brings up two possibilities-- 1) the Wizard was making claims (perhaps around the EC area) that were supposedly consolidated into the Winkies or 2) the Wizard actually tried to depose the witch, and she used her lackeys to do the job for her (a favorite ploy of hers) MOPPET is the second one. I think that Diggs was much more open about himself with his first arrival (after all, the people of the EC enviorns did see him face-to-face coming out of the balloon.) After construction of the EC and his legend grew, the people pleaded for him to rid the West of the Witch. Off went Diggs, (a good man, but a bad national savior) and he may have even triumphed over a few of the witch's lackeys, until she sent the monkeys after him. The monkeys were no match for Diggs, and they knew him for a humbug. After mischeviously toying with him, they dumped him back in the EC. They didn't tell Bastina of his true nature, as that was not asked of them. Back at the EC, the Wizard sequestered himself into the palace, becoming increasingly more aloof and apathetic, for his own safety and sanity. BTW, I think he first started shady dealings with Mombi in an attempt to find real magic that could send him home. Mombi used this to her advantage to steal Ozma away. Maybe she even knew of the Wizard's true nature, (she knew the magic "secrets" he gave her were humbug) but for purposes of her own kept the knowledge to herself. Have you guessed by now tha winged Monkeys are my favorite supporting characters? Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 21:56:27 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission Eric Gjovaag in the 7/19 Digest writes, But that means that you are thirty and a half which *is* over thirty. (But I still trust you, none the less. :-) ) Robin Olderman in the 7/19 Digest writes, Since mid-June, shortly after acquiring an e-mail service at a price I liked -- free. It seemed only proper to be quiet until I got the feel of the territory, so to speak. (It feels pretty good. Some territory never feels right. Five weeks in Saudi Arabia this spring and I never felt comfortable.) Speaking of feelings: In my experience of the last decade on large if non-public nets, hurt feelings seem to arise with starting ease. There is something about the rapid back and forth without ameliorating body language of electronic bulletin boards that can drive people up the wall. I have been there, felt that. All I can recommend is to step back, count to ten, and then to assume that most people do not mean to cause pain. Indeed, not only did they not mean to cause pain but you had to work hard on your part to take such offense. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 01:31:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Old Oz books 1) Scott, in clearing out my room for painting, I came across a page from an ancient copy of _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ which my brother and I totaled a when we were little kids. (I apologize for not having as much respect for books then as I have now. At least that copy of _The Marvelous Land of Oz_ we scribbled in is still in one piece...) 2) Eric, it's OK. Everyone's entitled to explode every once in a while. Also: Good grief! Why am I now thinking of a walking time-bomb as a character? 3) John, Stanislaw Lem in his _Star Diaries_ had the Cretaceous-Tertiary happen due to part of a project to renovate human history gone awry that exploded, flew back in time, and irradiated the planet. If you're looking for sentient dinosaurs, try Stephen Leigh's _Dinosaur World_, _Dinosaur Planet_, and _Dinosaur Samurai_ (more books pending), which are based on a short story by Ray Bradbury, and have sentient dinosaurs, though so far they haven't developed technology far enough to blow themselves up. ***WARNING: ENTER MOPPET MODE*** Also: In the Adelman standard theory, Oz's world was magicless until half a million years ago when the fairies arrived. I'm afraid you'll have to wait for a while to hear more of the legends barry and I are working on if I don't want to get stepped on by Kabumpo. Kabumpo: [lifting foot] Go ahead. Make my day! ***END MOPPET MODE*** As for talking animals, as far as I know, no animals talked in Oz's world (we really need to invent a name for this planet) until sometime in the 19th century, with the possible exception of dragons. Also: Out of curiousity, why are you called the "OS/2 Hobbit"? 3) Tyler, I hear that in the ancient Middle East they actually had maps that had EAST on the top instead of north. 4) Resuming a topic I touched on a bit earlier, anyone have a suggestion for a name for Oz's planet? I think someone suggested "Ozzy", but that seems a bit Ozocentric. How about Lurline's World? Tititi-Hoochoo: Hey! I take offense at that! Tubekins: And you're not supposed to have feelings to be bruised... Bungle: _Bungle's_ World would be much better. Kabumpo: Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu The Amazing Appleman ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 22, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 08:16:34 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission Several commentators in recent issues questioned a representation of Ganymede as female. Here is a possible explanation: In Greek mythology Jupiter is presented as usually transforming himself for his extramarital affairs, appearing at times as a bull, a swan, an eagle, and a shower of gold. If Jupiter was so free with his own form when seeking variety in his sexual life, would it have been unlikely that he would also make "minor" changes in his chosen partners, when the mood struck him? ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 10:29:50 -0200 From: amyjones@MindSpring.COM (Amy Jones) Subject: For Ozzy Digest A funny thing happened on the way to the Olympics... I was in Centennial Olympic Park along with the rest of the world having a fine time, when I saw a woman dressed as Dorothy (a la Judy Garland- red shoes, etc.) stroll by. She had a sign around her neck that said "Nope, definately not Kansas." I laughed. Thought y'all should know about it. Amy Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 11:55:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Monkeys, the Witch, and the Wizard ***WARNING: SPOILER ALERT*** Danny, the only book I know of that expands on the account in _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ on the incident between the Wizard, Bastinda, and the Winged Monkeys is Abbott's _How the Wizard Came to Oz_, which has the Wizard, more by accident than anything else, taking over the Winkie country, causing the Wicked Witch of the West to seek out the help of her sister Gingemma, who tells her about the Golden Cap. Bastinda then steals the Cap from Quelala and uses it against the Winkies and the Wizard, the latter who escapes in his balloon to the Emerald County. This is contradicted by March Laumer's _The Frogman of Oz_, in which Gayelette GIVES the Cap to Gingemma. Go figure. ***END WARNING*** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 19:37:46 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-21-96 I'm enjoying all the bad puns flying back and forth immensely. Anyone who's read my stories in "Oziana" can tell that I'm a punny person myself. Aaron - I got a huge book of ancient maps of Israel for my Bat-Mitzvah, and some of them do indeed have the East up! Very disorienting... About Lillith - I didn't know she was supposed to kill babies, but she is definitely an unpleasant character. She's supposed to have been Adam's first wife (before Eve), she is queen of the demons, and there are all sorts of nasty superstitions connected to her. I suppose if I knew more about Kaballah and Jewish mysticism I could be more precise... but she is not a biblical character. I wouldn't name a chld of mine Lillith. She may turn out like Frasier's ex-wife... |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:20:40 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-21-96 Why "the OS/2 Hobbit?" Back in the '91-'92 timeframe, when Microsoft's perfidy first became undeniable, there were a quite a few of us turning up on-line and off-line as "Blue Ninja", "OS/2 Warlord", etc.. I opted for a kinder, gentler soubriquet. As to map orientation, east-at-the-top is quite common in many cultures. East is the direction of the sunrise, and, from Europe, is the direction of Jerusalem. North-at-the-top only became standardized when globes became popular, and, although educated people in the West have known that the Earth is round for over two thousand years, globe maps did not become popular until the age of discovery. When that happened, a north-at-the-top alignment became more convenient, because on this planet most of the land (and virtually all the civilized land of that time) is in the northern hemisphere. The issue of confusing east and west is something different. The standard view represents reality from overhead. The Woggle-Bug's view is from beneath, which is both difficult to imagine (what with the planet being opaque) and unpleasant in connotation. (I remember the announcer at the Hayden Planetarium, some 30 or 40 years ago, engaging in some drollery that way when he projected a view of the globe from within in order to make an astronomical point.) Alternatively, the Woggle-Bug's view is a mirror image of the conventional view from above, and it seems to me that the Woggle-Bug's reversal during magnification remains the best Ozian explanation, just as Baum's Radio-Play magic-lantern slide remains the best explanation in the real world. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 12:55:03 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest Barbara-- Hmmm, "A Matchmaker in Oz". . . All this talk of PD-- My bottom line is, I write for myself, so if something works for me, great! If not, no one else matters. Now if you're into it for the money and mass-consumer consumption, well, that's different. Gili-- You're American slang is way cool. (BTW, your name has a hard "g" right, not "Jilly?") Aaron-- I always prefer to have Oz placed in this world already, but part of an isolated magical island or just magically hidden on another continent. If it is on its own world, how about having the Emerald City be placed at magnetic north? That way the center of the map is north, and the outer most edges south. (I saw a map of Antarctica like that, another reason not to assume the top of the map is north.) "No real advantage or theme for this, just something off the top of my head" said Langwediere. How about a quick poll-- which characters are all of your favorite *supporting* characters-- non-celebrity Oz people only-- characters cannot have appeared as a title of any *FF* Oz book (Glass Cat okay, but Dorothy, Ozma, Cowardly Lion are not, for example) Be sure to tell us why! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 18:19:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Chris (and others interested in copyrights): The hard thing, of course, would be for the copyright holder to prove that copyrighted character X was changed from the PD volume in which he appeared. This process would be long and expensive and, considering the amount of revenue that Oz books generate, probably not worth the expense. Well, your stock of _Tin Castle_ should reduce by one when my check arrives. This book should also help clear up a question I thought of about an hour ago: Where did the Scarecrow live between _Land_, when he stepped down as ruler of EC, and _Road_, when we saw his Tower? Danny: The only mention in the FF of the battle between the Wizard and Bastinda (To use the Volkov/Laumer/HACC/Adelmanian name) comes in _Wizard_ in chapter 12, "The Search for the Wicked Witch". Baum said that after using the Golden Cap (and the Winkies) to conquer the Wikies, she used it again to drive the Wizard out of "The Land of the West". ********** SPOILERS FOR _HOW THE WIZARD_ AND _OZ & 3 WITCHES ********** Outisde the FF: According to _How the Wizard Came to Oz_ (Which I do not consider HIstorically Accurate), the Wizard landed in the Winkie country and scared away Bastinda. He then set himself up as the ruler of the WInkie city, but Bastinda stole the Golden Cap from Quelala, and when the Wizard saw then Winged Monkeys coming, he got out of there before they got there. According to this book, there was no actual battle. According to _Oz and the Three Witches_, the Wizard landed near the old castle of Morrow, but moved to what is now EC to get away from the Witches. Apparantly, he shuttled back and forth, and also entered the domains of the Wicked Witches. The only quote from here is "The Monkeys nearly got me". According to this book, the Wizard began to make deals with Mombi in an effort to protect himself against the other two Wicked Witches. He believed (perhaps correctly) that Mombi was the weakest of the three, and that a non-agression pact with her would help him out, particularly since Mombi was closer to EC geographically than the other two. ********** END OF SPOILER MODE ********** Depending on which version you believe (or perhaps a belief all your own), the Wizard may not have much of a grand entrance. After all, by Dorothy's time, he was very mysterious, indicating that he probably did not make a grand public arrival. I prefer the _3 Witches_ version, which hints that he actually arrived in relative obscurity and "snuck up" on the people. Your theory is quite plausible: Either the Wizard was trying to overthrow the WWW or perhaps he was just nosing about in her country and getting a little too curious. Like Danny, I believe that is extremely likely that Mombi knew of the true nature of the Wizard and kept it secret as a lever against the other two Wicked Witches. Current HACC theory: Diggs arrived near Morrow in relative obscurity. He approached what is now EC and convinced the people that he was a Wizard. Upon hearing of the Wicked Witches, he took steps to defend himself and his people. This included the whole "Mombi" affair, and in one of his confrontations with the WWW, he faced the Winged Monkeys and never again left his palace. Danny: SInce you like the Winged Monkeys so much, have you read _The Marvelous Monkeys of Oz_ and _The Winged Monkeys of Oz?_ Aaron: Based on your theory of how and when magic started, I assume that in your Universe fairy magic is the foundation magic from which all others are derived? For this reason, the HACC Universe cannot accept your theory. I see no evidence that Fairy magic is by definition more powerful, more funda- mental or otherwise more all-encompassing than any other "kind" of magic. I base this (mostly) on a conversation between Ozma and Dorothy in _Glinda_, wherein Ozma says that there are a number of different types of magic workers, and that they each can do some pretty amazing things that the other types cannot do. Nobody, says Ozma, can do everything. Aaron Again: Farmer, in _Barnstormer_, called the planet "Ertha". The main thing to remember is that Oz is not the whole world, although it may be the biggest and most important country there (with the possible exception of Antozia). --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 21-Jul-96 20:06:12 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MY MOPPET ABOUT THE WOGGLEBUG'S BACKWARD MAP: The wogglebugs are ground dwelling insects who therefore normally see the surface of the planet from the underside. Consequently, east and west are reversed in the Wogglebug's mind. ANOTHER UNEXPECTED OZ REFERENCE: At the risk of allowing dinosaurs another unauthorized admission into the Ozzy discussions :) , the newly released textbook on dinosaurology, _The Evolution and Extinction of the Dinosaurs_, in its second chapter likens a trip to the Dinosaur Age to Dorothy arriving in Oz and saying, "We're not in Kansas anymore!", and begins the section on geologic ages with the heading, "Eras and Periods and Epochs, Oh My!" THE FAQ: Well, now that we have an answer to the copyright question, I think I WILL update the FAQ after all. The new version will contain the copyright info, along with a couple of new MOPPeT's, including the question, "Where is Oz, on Earth or on another planet?" -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 23, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 03:13:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-22-96 Gili: Rock and roll? Uh oh! Steve and other punsters: The Scarecrow was also "Polish" when he had a rather uplifting experience with a stork. Favorite supporting Oz character: Gee, I dunno. Maybe Waddy, if only because he was so willing to take on an assistant. I think I probably wanted to be his next Assistant Wizard. I'm also very fond of Flitter in MGR. His humility feels genuine and is endearing. Kabumpo: "What about me? I thought I was your favorite character." Robin: "You are, Dear, but you're disqualified." Kabumpo: "I beg your pardon? I'm very highly qualified!" Robin:"Shhh. I'll explain later. Now be quiet, or you won't have the starring role in 'The Lost Tribe of Oz." Kabumpo: [Stomp!] "You weren't supposed to mention that story in the DIGEST yet!" Robin shuts up. Promptly. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 11:05:02 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Ozzy reference and minor characters OK, for Danny: My favorite minor character is the King of the Bears, from LOST PRINCESS, for his willingness to help, with no strings attached, but out of the goodness of his ursine heart. We picked up a beagle from the Humane Society Friday. A Xerox on the wall had a picture of a terrier, and the following: "Dorothy: Hate Oz. Took shoes. Find your own way home. Toto " --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:10:50 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Another batch to catch up on. We had nearly 16 inches of rain here in less than 24 hours in Naperville last Wednesday/Thursday; it would have been a new all-time record for the state of Illinois if the next town west, Aurora, hadn't had over 18 inches in the same 24-hour period. We were lucky; our house is on high enough ground that the rising water didn't get to us, and our sump pump worked well enough that the only water in our basement was a puddle about the size you'd get if you spilled a glass of water - no damage. But the city has been declared a disaster area, and last Thursday in particular it wasn't possible to get anywhere much in an ordinary car because all the streets around us were flooded with up to two feet of water. This didn't really prevent my responding to the Digests, but it meant that I had other things on my mind to an extent that kept me from cranking up to do it. Hence the catch-up. 7/16: Eric: The incorrect compass rose in the original Woggle-bug map of Oz from TIK-TOK leads to the interesting question: if you're traveling from Glinda's castle to the Emerald City, and decide to go visit the Tin Woodman instead, do you turn left or right? (The partial map in LOST PRINCESS perpetuates this error, incidentally; the text says the Winkie country is in the west, but the map shows the Gillikin country at the top and the Winkie country on the right.)(Though that map appears to be a copy of the one from TIK-TOK with some added features.) Robin: You're 52? I'd have pegged you mid-40s. Maybe there's something about being an Oz fan that retards aging? :-) I'll think about a holiday story for OZIANA; if anything comes to me I'll write it and send it to you. 7/17: I seem to have lost my copy of this Digest. Dang. I know there were a couple of things I wanted to comment on in it, including Joyce Odell's excellent analysis of the Ozma Problem. One thing I do remember I wanted to mention was that I didn't intend to claim that my theory of nuclear war destroying the dinosaurs was original. Just that it's one that I like. 7/18: Tyler: Terms like Paleolithic, Neolithic, etc. refer to technological/cultural stages rather than chronological dates, though of course (as Ken S, I think it was, said) in a given area (like Europe, or more accurately the Mediterranean basin) there are dates associated with them. But there are places where they still hadn't reached Neolithic technology by the 20th century. Since we don't know the earthly origins of the first Oz settlers, we don't know when it was settled even if they were Paleolithic; if they came from, say, Australia (which doesn't seem unlikely; Oz must have "gates" from near Australia), then they could have arrived no more than a thousand years ago. Eric: I'd like to see both your master's quiz and Ken Cope's not-yet-master's quiz. If not on the Digest, then in private E-mail. I'd like to have an idea how I'd have done on both of them. Earl: I concur with your advice to Rich Morrissey to go for the bifocals. I resisted them quite a while myself, and have kicked myself since for having waited so long. (I still use a separate pair of glasses for working at the computer, because if I do that with bifocals then I have to hold my head at an uncomfortable angle. But it means I don't have to take my distance glasses off to read [except very fine print] and put them back on to see sharply more than ten inches away.) (I don't suppose you're related to the Abbe of the V-number, are you?) 7/19: Steve: I personally liked DOROTHY OF OZ better than DINAMONSTER, but I suppose that's a matter of taste. Neither of them was very good (worse than any of the FF, including the Neills), but neither was terrible, either. Tyler: Good luck in finding another job! Scott: >I would enjoy the discussions more if the atmosphere were that of a casual >conversation in a friend's home. Disagreements are inevitable, but let's >keep things in perspective: we are talking about THE WIZARD OF OZ. Is this >really worth hurt feelings and bruised egos? I think the real problem is that many if not most of us feel like the atmosphere here -is- one of a casual conversation in a friend's home. A few people obviously feel differently about it, but I simply haven't seen any evidence of anyone being intentionally "hurtful and insensitive". (I except the battering that I understand Peter Glassman took over the editing of PATCHWORK GIRL; I wasn't around until the tail-end of that discussion, but I'll take Eric's word that it had been nasty before that.) I concur with Earl Abbe's post of 7/21 - I think that to get your feelings hurt over anything that's been said on the Digest in recent weeks, you have to be really looking for it. One of the sadder things I know of with respect to Oz is the inscription in the "This Book Belongs To:" space in my copy of JACK PUMPKINHEAD. It says, "For my children when I grow up: Patty Goode, 4007 Drew, Cincinnati, O., Sep. 14, 1950". The fact that I found it used in a Los Angeles area bookstore in the late '70s implies that Patty (a) didn't live to grow up; (b) didn't have children; (c) lost interest in Oz; or (d) needed money so bad she sold off her books even though she didn't want to. None of these are happy thoughts. (OTOH, I got a nice copy of JP out of it...) Eric: I've E-mailed Chris; we'll see what if any effect it has. Robin: The Scarecrow was "pole-ish" both when Dorothy first found him, and when his pole stuck in the bottom of the Munchkin River and the stork had to rescue him. Those are the only two times I can recall in WIZARD. Though in LAND he was covered with "polish" after he embraced the Tin Woodman... Tyler: The convention of drawing maps with north at the top is relatively recent. I recall reading that most medieval maps in Europe put east at the top because that was the direction of Jerusalem. However, wherever you put north, east should be 90 degrees clockwise from it. Otherwise you don't know which way to turn... 7/21: Steve: I think it's "a tall, thin Pole", though I haven't bothered to look it up. Chris (possibly in absentia): I think that for copyright to lapse because the copyright owner didn't object to an unauthorized use, it's necessary to show that the copyright owner knew of the unauthorized use. I.e., one can't print up a few copies of something that uses copyright characters, sell them to a few friends, and seven years later use those characters freely. I know I read this in a discussion of patent and trademark rights once; if you can show that the owner of the rights knew of your earlier use and didn't do anything about it, by a legal principle known as "estoppel" the owner can't come at you later. But you have to show the owner knew about the illegal use. I would imagine the same principle applies to copyright, though it wasn't an issue in the article I read. Rich Morrissey, I know you're a lawyer, even if you haven't been practicing law for a while. Do you know any answers about this? Aaron: A name for the world Oz is on? How about "Geoz"? 7/22: Danny: If you're writing only for yourself, then the copyright status of the characters you use is immaterial. But if you'd like to get it published (for egoboo primarily; you won't make enough money to bother about), you need to be more careful. (My original version of GLASS CAT included Carter Green, Jenny Jump, Number Nine, and Davy Jones, since it was written for myself and a few friends. When I was encouraged to submit it for publication, I had to go back and delete those references - which was OK, since I also needed to cut it by 6-8000 words, and those were good places to do it.) And I'm sure Gili will answer for herself, but yes, it's a hard "g" in her name. I have meant to comment for some time, though, that her statement that it rhymes with "really" and not "silly" doesn't take into account that for a lot of Americans (including, certainly, Southern Californians), "really" rhymes with "silly". "Steely" would probably be more unambiguous... Favorite non-FF-title characters? For me, Cap'n Bill, no contest. He's wise, resourceful, kind, able to do just about anything - just an all-round good person. The Glass Cat, Eureka, and Professor Woggle-bug all offer more potential as book subjects, but all are highly flawed characters. (Which, of course, is the main reason why they have such potential.) Dave: A ground-dwelling insect is still on the outside of the planet, and would still need to turn right if he were traveling north and wanted to head east. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 11:59:15 -0600 (MDT) From: estelle@usa.net (Estelle E. Klein) With regards to finding your own books, on the back flap of The Mysterious Chronicles of Oz, Onyx Madden reports finding a copy of one of his own original books, finding his name on the fly leaf where he had written it many years before. What is Onyx Madden's real name please- Also for those interested in TV Oz skits, the other evening there was a commercial for the Jeff Foxworthy show, and it had the NBC peacock, munchkins and JoAnn Worley (of Laugh-In fame) as Glinda for the commercial. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:12:39 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-22-96 Amy - thanks for that anecdote! I knew there had to be an Oz-Olympics connection. BTW, I'm all bleary eyed from watching the women's gymnastics on t.v. last night till early in the morning... Danny - I will reiterate for your sake and for any other digesters who missed this a couple of months back: "Gili" is pronounced with a hard g, like "Glinda", and it rhymes with "really", not with "silly". :-). And I'm a woman (I've been asked that before too). My favourite "supporting" character as defined is probably the Woozy. I find him deliciously whimsical, and I like his smile. ************** minor spoiler for "Oz Kids", episode 4 ****************** I won't go over the plot, which is wacky at best, but here are some interesting points I noted: - in the dubbed Hebrew version, "Ork" was trasnlated as "Giraffe"!!! I think a pun was intended - it was supposed to be "a flying Gir" ["Gir affa"] and not a Giraffe [Giraffa], but it took me a long time to figure that out...) - Dorothy's original house from Kansas is shown, and it definitely has more than one room. It seems to be modeled after the movie version. - The Oz-Kids have lunch at a Munchkin farmhouse, and their eating habits are like nothing described in the FF: Boris and Bela (the Cowardly Lion's cubs) eat grapes and bananas, Pumpkinhead Jr. eats pumpkin seeds (cannibalism?), Scarecrow Jr. eats straw, and Tinboy drinks a jug of oil.Hmmm. Gets you thinking about those meat-trees... ************************************************************************* |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:00:41 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: From Scott Olsen I have a question hopefully someone here can answer. How is Baum's title Queen Zixi of Ix pronounced? I have heard the "X's" pronounced as "Z's" (Queen Zizi of Iz) and have heard the "X's" pronounced as "X's" (Queen Zicks-e of Icks). Anyone know? Thanks. Scott O. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:12:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" 1) Earl, Greek gods may have had transformational powers, but from what I've heard, there's only one case of magical transsexualism in Greek mythology, and that was in the case of a blind prophet in the Oedipus plays, not Ganymede. Also, I still haven't managed to find any reference to Lillith as a Greek goddess; my searchings on the Internet so far have turned up only Semitic references. So I still stick by my evaluation of _Lurline and the White Ravens in Oz_ as bad Greek mythology. 2) Gili, when did I say Lillith was a biblical character? 3) Danny, I put Oz on a different planet because we don't have enough room for several hidden CONTINENTS. I don't see Oz's world's magnetic north pole would be at the Emerald City. Considering all the underground countries, there might not be much of a metallic core, resulting in no magnetic field! Hiergargo: That's certainly not going to help navigation! Garudiprostrella: Well there would still be SOMETHING there if you hadn't put that Tube through the center! Also: Best supporting characters: The Woozy, Bungle, and the Sawhorse. 4) Tyler, in _Queen Zixi of Ix_, the magic of fairies is characterized as "boundless", certainly more powerful than that of witches or other beings, justifying my MoPPET of making fairy magic THE fundamental magic. Either I pin fundamental magic on fairies or dragons, but dragons are not known for magic powers. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:27:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest I saw an old map of the world drawn by ancient christians in Europe during the Dark Ages. The world was flat (though circular). Jerusalem was in the center, and the three continents (Europe, Africa and Asia) surrounded it. Danny: More on maps: Maps of the polar region are usually done with absolute north or south in the center. The reason for this is that if a map of Antarctica were drawn in standard Mercator format, it would be extremely distorted. This is called "polar projection". Maps such as this are fine as long as the equator does not get crossed. Supporting Characters: Well, of the ones not given book-titles in the FF, I might say that Trot is my favorite, but I would argue that she is not a supporting character. This is a toughie. I'll have to think about it for a while. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:38:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim VanderNoot Subject: The Calendar of Ozian Events is in need of update and requests your input. Please send info about upcoming Ozian events, exhibitions, performances, etc. that would be of interest to the general public and the Oz Club to: calendar@ozclub.org. Oogaboo Rendezvous too! Cheers, Jim ------------------------------------- Jim Vander Noot E-mail: jvandern@sam.neosoft.com Date: 7/22/96 Time: 9:38:13 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Monday 22-Jul-96 19:48:03 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THE USED OZ BOOK: David H. wrote: >One of the sadder things I know of with respect to Oz is the inscription in >the "This Book Belongs To:" space in my copy of JACK PUMPKINHEAD. It says, >"For my children when I grow up: Patty Goode, 4007 Drew, Cincinnati, O., Sep. >14, 1950". The fact that I found it used in a Los Angeles area bookstore in >the late '70s implies that Patty (a) didn't live to grow up; (b) didn't have >children; (c) lost interest in Oz; or (d) needed money so bad she sold off >her books even though she didn't want to. Or (e) Patty couldn't get her kids interested in Oz. Sad, but not as sad as the other scenarios you suggget. ALL-POWERFUL GEN--ER, FAIRIES??? Aaron wrote: >Tyler, in _Queen Zixi of Ix_, the magic of fairies is characterized as >"boundless" ... "Boundless"? As in "Phenominal Cosmic Powers"? >... certainly more powerful than that of witches or other beings ... Glinda: *Ahem*...I beg your pardon?! I still stick to my MOPPeT that there is NO "fundamental" magic except for the "Magic of Everything", and you'll have to read _Locasta_ to find out what THAT'S about... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 24, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:43:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-23-96 Onyx Madden is really James E. Nitch of Southern California. Queen Zicksee of Icks...never have I heard "Queen Zizi of Iz." Anyone else out there heard it differently? Gggeelee: Steve and David got the awful "Polish" stuff, but what about your "rock and roll" question? Do you mean Dot and Toto riding the cyclone? Is David the only one of y'all considering a holiday tale for OZIANA? Fred liked the idea of a special holiday issue, BTW. Good news: he's able to type a bit now and is walking more at his sister's than he did in rehab! He has an appointment with a physical therapist tomorrow. Book inscriptions: As a dealer, I get to see lots of them. One that particularly tickled me was a note a youngster had written on an endpaper consoling himself that at least he'd earned a new Oz book this time at the dentist's! (I wish *my* folks had rewarded me similarly.) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 02:20:16 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: posts Sandy, Chris and all: Look for a fun article from Patty Tobias in the Spring issue of The Oz Observer. It's a delightful account of an Oz book coming "full circle." (Latest word tells me that the newsletters are finally going to mail this week.) Send contributions to the Autumn issue of The Oz Observer to Carole Mackey at or by snail mail to 1622 Brassie Avenue, Flossmoor, IL 60422. Carole volunteered to edit and desktop publish the member's newsletter since Fred Meyer is no longer able to manage it. Spring was her first issue. I'm still doing the Gazette and welcome all contributions from kids or for kids. speaking of kids, I'm designing a one-of-a-kind postmark for a child who is quite certain Oz is real. Any suggestions out there for how I should indicate the date and year? Nathan: Richard Dworsky is credited with music on the Child Vision Company video release of The Marvelous Land of Oz stage play produced by the Children's Theater Co. & School of Minneapolis (a.k.a. The Minneapolis Children's Theatre Co.) The video version runs 105 minutes and was released in 1981. Lyrics are by Gray Briggle. All, re. the above and questions like it: I recently sent Jim VanderNoot the text of the Oz Timeline I've been putting together for the last year and a half as a sort of Centennial Committee/Oz Club service. Jim is including it in a reference section on the Club site. My intention is to make factual information available on-line about all kinds of topics so people with few/no Oz resources can get a fast answer. When you have questions about an individual (such as Dworsky) a word search of a name should help you find information quickly. And yes, I realize I will spend the rest of my natural life incorporatiing corrections. I hope you all will enjoy it once you have access. I put it together and still find it fascinating! Steve Teller: Thank you for explaining the economics of the Oz Club on the digest with your recent post, which bears repeating: "I assure you that NICKELODEON and DISNEY have far more subscribers that the BUGLE and they have something to gain from being available on-line. IWOC has no advertisers and the BUGLE is the prime membership benefit. If we put it on the web for free would not many who pay for membership stop paying?" And as to non "joiners," I know what you mean, but the Club is so unclubby (a problem for the folks looking to get to know other members without actually attending a convention) that it doesn't have to be more than a subscription to you. The Bugle is a wonderful and attractive publication crammed with information you will get nowhere else. David Hulan: If you and Robin agree on an index to Oziana, I can provide a complete set of issues that Jim Nitch entrusted to the Centennial Commitee on the death of Fred Otto. I would want them returned eventually, but your project is worth support. If you're serious about it, let's move this to private e-mail. And thanks for volunteering to do something meaningful! Other TV shows with memorable Oz references include Picket Fences and Murphy Brown. When trying to nail down insurance for my Oz collection, my provider wanted all prices I listed to be supported by two published prices. Even finding catalogs or price lists was a challenge, much less ones with comparable-condition copies of my own titles. I eventually gave up in dispair. Has anyone found an insurance company who will cover Oz collections less impressive than those of museum quality? And what software do you folks use to index your collections? I need to start moving the hard cards to a digital data base and have never heard a good recommendation. In addition to mimicing Bert Lahr's voice, Snaggle Puss recorded an album of The Wizard of Oz. A list of some prices from Ozmopolitan were included as a side bar to last year's report on the Ozmopolitan convention in the Oz Observer (primarily to point out to non-book collectors that there was Oz "stuff," too, and to make it clear that there are some bargains). The Oz Observer is a more appropriate place, IMHO, than the Oz Gazette for pricing info. since the Gazette is primarily focused on contributions from kids and things that are fun for them to do. But I think the Club has traditionally been positioned as not wanting to endorse any particular price guidelines; we haven't even included prices in the Oz trading post until Jim VanderNoot put it on line. I would hesitate to change that precedent now. We would open ourselves up to all kinds of irate members who would object to whatever we said (even though publishing prices realized is not the same as setting fair market value). Onyx Madden is Jim Nitch. Hallmark's Oz designs in the Keepsake Ornament line are in stores now. Look for Margaret Hamilton as the Wicked Witch of the West and a pricer "Magic" ornament of the fab four dancing about on the forest side of the Poppy field to the tune of "Off to See the Wizard." If you are a member of the Keepsake Ornament Club ($20 to join) you also can get the Wizard going up in his balloon. Ask at a Hallmark store to see a picture of it. FYI, last collector's market list I saw said the 1994 Keepsake Ornaments of the fab four are now at about $150 as a set. I've a couple private e-mails to answer. About Ozzy things like dinosaurs, the Bible, fantasy authors, Disney trivia, ancient computers, Dalmatian names, Greek mythology, maps...... Jane ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:37:57 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission David Hulan writes in the 7/23 Digest, I don't recognize the reference. Do you mean V-1 and V-2 from World War II? My Abbe ancestor arrived in New England from old England in the mid-1600s. I don't know of any connection to Germany. Estelle Klein writes in the 7/23 Digest, Onyx Madden <= Jim Nitch, I think. Aaron Adelman writes in the 7/23 Digest of Oz being on a different but presumably Earth-like planet and speculates that The Earth is 5,000 miles in diameter (or some such figure). The iron-nickel core is very much smaller than that. If each underground country occupied a separate concentric spherical shell of territory one mile thick in the space between the surface and the core, there would be enough room for thousands of such countries and each country would be vast. So the core need not be touched at all. Don't throw away your compass yet. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 11:13:36 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-23-96 Estelle: Others will probably tell you this as well, but Onyx Madden's real name is James Nitch. Scott: I don't think Baum ever gave instructions as to the pronunciation of "Zixi of Ix", but "Zick-see" of "Icks" is the only one I've ever heard and the only one that makes sense. In English the "z" sound for "x" is pretty well confined to cases where it's initial (Xerxes, Xavier, xylophone, xenophobic) or French plurals (bureaux, beaux). In the terminal position (except for the French plurals) it's essentially always the "ks" sound; in the middle of words it's sometimes voiced (a "gz" sound), but if it's "Icks" then "Zig-zee" would lose the euphony. Besides, the name is clearly based on words like "pixie" and "nixie". Tyler: My understanding was that Danny was defining "supporting character", for the purposes of his poll, as "one who isn't a title character of an FF book". Cap'n Bill is certainly not just a supporting character by the usual definition (if they made a movie of it, he'd be up for Best Actor, not Best Supporting Actor) in SCARECROW, but he's not a title character anywhere in the FF. Incidentally, while I agree that Waddy, Flitter, the King of Bear Center, the Woozy (only one to get more than one vote), Bungle, the Sawhorse, and Trot are all excellent characters, I still think Cap'n Bill is better. (With the possible exception of Waddy - who isn't in Oz, though he appears in one Oz book - which one would you be most likely to go to if you had a problem? The only Ozites I'd go to before Cap'n Bill would be Ozma, the Wizard, or Glinda - all of whom are title characters, Ozma twice and the Wizard three times.) Dave: I don't think that your answer (e) to my sad story applies, really - that is, it would only work in conjunction with my answer (c), that Patty lost interest in Oz herself as well as not being able to get her children interested in Oz. I wasn't able to get my daughter interested in Oz, but it didn't mean that I got rid of my Oz books. (Contrariwise, I acquired most of the Thompsons I have, along with two Neills and the Cosgrove, after it was apparent that Rachel wasn't interested.) Not such a lengthy post today... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 11:44:10 -0400 From: Gann349@aol.com Subject: digest stuff no one's mentioned MY favorite supporting character--pigasus. marcus mebes and i had planned to do a comic book starring him, but unfortunately, although i wrote the storyline, marcus lost interest in doing oz art. regards, atty ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 11:01:24 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Oz While I would not like to select one character as my favorite (I do like Bungle, and the Woozy and many others) the character that I feel the most sorry for in any of the books in Ploppa the mud turtle in YELLOW KNIGHT, who Sir Hocus abandons, promising to return "anon," and never sees or mentions again. Estelle: The real name of Onyx Madden is Jim Nitch. Scott O.: No, nobody *knows* how to pronounce Zixi, I have always heard "Zicksee" myself, but only Baum would know how it *should* be pronounced. Chris Dulabone demands that Ojo should be pronounced "O-ho" using the Spanish pronounciation of "j"; Marcus Mebes added an accent mark to the final letter of Lurline, making the pronunciation "lur-leen-a." There is no official pronunciation of "Evoldo" or "Kalliko" either. Robin OLderman, I believe, wrote a poem about diverse pronunciation of Ozian names, if she will favor us with it. Dave: It's nice of you to tell us we have to read LOCASTA, but when will we have an opportunity to do so? Steve ("Lazar Wolf") T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:39:12 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-22-96 Dave: Storywise, I tend to favor putting Oz in a parallel universe rather than on this earth or another planet... Tyler: Sorry to hear about your breakup with Compuserve. Hope you find other gainful employment, soon! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:51:37 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 07-08-96 Great quote from LFB: "Friends, I entreat you not to quarrel!" pleaded the Tin Woodman, anxiously." As a matter of fact, we are none of us above criticism; so let us bear with each others' faults." - The Marvelous Land of Oz Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:33:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Danny: I have two finalists for favorite supporting character. Nikobob, from _Rinkitink_, due to his devotion to his family and, according to Baum, a high degree of common sense. Also Pajuka, from _Lost King_, is up there becuase of his intense loyalty to his former king and the fact that he did his best to defend Snip from Mombi's evil nature. David: Your point, of course, is that "Neolithic" does not necessarily occur at the same time. This is true, but it is probable that people have been in Oz for a few thousand years. Scott: We've had some discussions about pronunciation a long time ago on the digest, mostly about "Kalidah". I used to pronounce it "Zick-see of Icks", but the late Marcus Mebes convinced me that the Queen's name should be "Zee-Zee". I still pronouce Ix as "Icks". North to/from Oz: In _Pirates_, the crew sailed far to the north and encountered cold weather, so it is doubtful that EC is at the true north pole, or even the magnetic pole, unless there is a huge difference between the two. Fundamental Magic: There are some examples of "boundless" or "limitless" magic in the Oz books, mostly the Magic Belt and other things-of-inifinite-wishes. Most of these were not created by fairies and Baum usually refers to Sorceress Glinda as the most powerful magic-user in the world. Aaron: Speaking of this, in what chapter of _Queen Zixi_ does the mention of the "boundless" powers of the fairies appear? Anyway, despite the statement in _Queen Zixi_ (which I looked for and could not find), I still fail to see evidence that fairies are by nature supremely powerful above and beyond all others. Certainly, Lulea was more powerful than Zixi, but there are several examples where fairy magic failed to overcome other types of magic. Ozma could not break the spider web in _Glinda_, and Lurline herself could not undo Mombi's enchantment of Pastoria, according to _The Lost King_. Ozma herself seems to draw most of her power from the Magic Belt. It really does seem to me that no specific discipline is better than any other, except for Dave's "Magic of Everything". I liked one of Dave's comparisons of magic to computer languages, with the Magic of Everything being compared to binary code (possible links with Aaron's Magic Machine?) Also, there is my analogy, that I have made a few times: Fairy Magic is but a voice in the chorus: It is not necessarily the conductor of the orchestra. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:10:18 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-23-96 Aaron - you never said that Lillith was biblical, and I didn't mean to imply that you did! I was simply noting, possibly to myself, that Lillith is more a character of medeival folklore that of earlier, Canaanite Jewish sources. As far as I know! Okay, here's the answer to my riddle "who was the first character from Oz to 'rock and roll' in one of the FF books", and I quote from chpt. 10 of _The Marvellous Land of Oz_: "...the Sawhorse *rocked and rolled* over the flower-strewn fields and carried its riders swiftly upon their way". |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:00:33 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: post I may be dreaming, but it doesn't seem like any Oz Club publications have talked about Web sites or member use of the Web yet. The Digest has been reported, but no one has written about all the other fun stuff you can find on the web sites of both the Club and individual members. Anybody interested in tackling that as an article for the Oz Observer? If so, e-mail me privately and let's chat. Ozisus@aol.com (Jane Albright) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:57:20 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: calendar Er, I see that Jim Vander Noot has asked for info for a calendar. I hope that doesn't mean that I have been taken off the project without even having been told. I did e-mail him privately to ask about that. But if I am no longer allowed to do the calendar, I will not be needing to get any more illos for it. I was not at all happy to find out about it this way, but maybe Jim is planning a different project that will not affect the Club calendar. I'll let you know if I hear from him. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:00:32 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: _Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz_ [Edited with Chris' permission -- Dave] I think it has become necessary that someone say something about Aaron Adelman's criticisms of Marcus' book [_Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz_]. Marcus was an expert in the subject of mythology; I obviously am not. Also, it is true that the stories concerned are rather obscure. I see no reason to insult anyone just for not having heard of them. He is obviously not an expert in the subject, either. Er, not that there is much money in being one... Again, I ask that anyone on the digest who has access to the myths in question send them to me. I'd personally prefer that they come to me privately, off the digest, as I think the subject has already gotten too old here. Besides, I want to stick them into a Skeezik book, and having them on the digest first would potentially hurt sales of the book. Okay, I think Lillith is the daughter of Hyperion and Thea. I may be wrong, though. Adelman must have already known of the Greek Kole, but I still want to read her story for my own sanity. The female Ganymede was swallowed by some kind of monster. Some guy jumped in to save her. She was elevated to goddesshood, while he was made into a constellation. The early deities must have been feminists. I would love to read the complete accounts of all of these, and find out the constellation's identity. Steve Teller has been a student of classic studies for about 40 years, and he was not aware of these stories, so I don't expect I will be getting a million copies of any of them. They are obviously obscure. I will be impressed with one copy. Gili Bar-Hillel has finally gotten a message from me, and she gave me a very lurid description of the other Lillith that I think I'd leave out of any Oz collection. A really yucky character, to say the least. I hope the Greek Lillith is less disgusting, but I wasn't crazy about Frazier's Lillith, either. Oh, I think someone posted the question of Tin Castle's price. It is $12.00. But this is the book which explains where Nick got his house. It also answers a lot of questions that were once posted on the digest concerning mosquitoes. It has a full-color cover, too. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:44:48 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Supporting Characters-- Hmmm, I, like Tyler, would probably not count Trot or Cap'n Bill as a "supporting character" as they did have at least one FF book where they did star as the main characters. I tried to get some sort of specific responce to get us thinking about the little-used Oz celebrities, at that category (Name your favortie non-FF titled character) seemed best. FWIW, I think Trot and Cap'n Bill rank high on my own fave list, anyway. I definately must include Winged Monkeys as my favorite supporting characters, but since there isn't a specific personality to pin down, I have to go with Langwediere. Why? Aside from the weirdness value, Baum played a strange game with the reader, making you think she is a villain but making her seem perfectly normal at the same time. David-- Are you assuming the book you found pre-addressed was given up by the parent? I think it would be sad, too, if the child at some point, for whatever reason, got rid of the book. Gili-- Cannabilism in OzKids!?! Actually, there was a Disney Donald Duck short where he and his nephews sit down to a turkey dinner. . . Dave-- Is your "magic of everything" as elusive as science's search for the unified "theory of everything?" Or is that giving too much away! Oz-sta la vista Danny ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 24-Jul-96 01:23:07 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FROM SEPIA TO TECHNICOLOR: I was wondering -- You know, when you see the MGM _Wizard of Oz_ on TV, they have to put a color filer over the "door-opening into Oz" shot (or so my Dad told me when I was a little shaver), so that it doesn't really look as though she's making a smooth transition from Kansas B&W to Ozzy Color. Is there anyone here who's seen the movie in a theatre and can tell me if the effect there is more dramatic? THE MAGIC OF EVERYTHING: Danny wrote: >Is your "magic of everything" as elusive as science's search for the >unified "theory of everything?" Or is that giving too much away! Well, let's just say that I'd like to spill the beans about the M.O.E., but there's this giant elephant looming over me with one foot raised... :) DONALD AS A POULTRY CONSUMER: Danny wrote: >Actually, there was a Disney Donald Duck >short where he and his nephews sit down to a turkey dinner. . . FWIW, that was _Soup's On_, which I exclude from the Donald Duck HACC because Don makes his revulsion to making a gourmet dish out of his own kind clear in the previous film, _Chef Donald_. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 25, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:56:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-24-96 From: Barbara DeJohn My favorite non-main character is Jinnicky the Red Jinn. I think having a dinner bell would be really great. He was so willing to be helpful and generally jolly. How would you like to be a jar? I think that the Wizard of Oz has to be the most prolific movie ever made. There are more references to it in popular culture than any other movie. Everytime I see a Kansas licence plate I think "They aren't in Kansas anymore!" Barbara DeJohn 10333.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:35:30 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-24-96 Wow!! First lengthy Digest in a while!! Chris: Thanks for the "Tin Castle" price. As they say, the check is in the mail. :-) And, welcome back, I hope? David Hulan: I agree with your understanding that Danny was asking for a non-book title character of an FF book. I, also, pick the Sawhorse; that tireless steed, who goes about his tasks virtually silent, and with an unwavering, staunch, loyalty to his monarch and her friends. My son and daughter, when young, read a few of my Oz books, but did not inherit my interest and love for them. I would never part with them, and, if no grandchildren share my compassion, I'll take them with me when I go!! :-D Dick Randolph (DIXNAM@aol.com) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:49:19 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 07-23-96 Robin: Glad to hear that Fred's doing better. Jane: I think the evidence is that the months and days in Oz are the same as in our world, so that would be no problem in your postmark. For the year, I'd expect Oz to date from Ozma's ascension to the throne, though there's a mild degree of dissension as to exactly when that was in our chronology. Calling this year "93 A.O." (for "Anno Ozmae") would probably be reasonable, though I'm not sure that agrees with Tyler's HACC dating. (And I don't know if there's any reason you should care whether it does or not.) This, however, is just how -I- would do it; if you don't like my suggestion, whatever way you choose would be just as valid. I'm serious about doing the OZIANA Index, if someone will furnish me the necessary copies. Robin, is this OK with you? If so, I'll take it to private E-mail with Jane. I use Filemaker Pro on the Macintosh to index all my fiction collection, not just Oz, though certainly including Oz. It works very well for my purposes. But I'm sure that just about any database program above the very basic level (and maybe even those) would work fine; it's just that Filemaker is an easy one to use, which can't be said for all of them. Do you want to index just books, or Stuff as well? (This is another one that should probably go to private E-mail if you want to continue the discussion, I guess.) Earl: The "Abbe of the V-number" was German, so presumably no relation of yours, but had nothing to do with the V-1 and V-2 bombs in WW II. He was an eminent physicist in the late 19th century who practically created the theory of lens design, which was my profession until I retired a few months ago. The "V-number" (actually, Abbe himself used the Greek "nu", but for typographic reasons in pre-computer days it was changed to "V" early on) was a very useful measure of the dispersion of a glass that let lens designers quickly determine the relative powers of a pair of elements of different glasses that would make the combination achromatic. Atty: Pigasus is pretty much a principal character in WISHING HORSE, I think - at least as much as Trot and Cap'n Bill are in SCARECROW. I guess a lot depends on how you define "minor character". Steve: I'd have to agree with you that Ploppa is probably the character in the whole series that I feel most sorry for. Though I'd like to know whatever happened to Wag. Why does Chris D. think "Ojo" should be given a Spanish pronunciation? We know that Modern Ozish is the same as Modern English, so presumably Ozians would use an English spelling for their names if the sound occurs in English. (The latter consideration is why, in fantasies in general, I read names beginning with "Ll-" with the Welsh rather than the Spanish pronunciation - because if the author wanted the Spanish version she could write it "Y-", but the Welsh "ll" sound doesn't have any other way of writing it in English.) If Baum wanted it pronounced "Oho" he could have spelled it "Oho". "Lurline" is a different case; if you think it has a Classical origin, then it should probably be "loor-LYE-nee", as in "Aphrodite". If it's Teutonic, it would be "LOOR-lee-na", or possibly "loor-LEE-na". On the other hand, if it's plain English, it would be "LOOR-line", which is how -I- pronounce it and intend to keep doing. Melody: I agree that Oz is best interpreted as being in a parallel world; that's why I've always referred to it as a "world" rather than a "planet". Though since the world doesn't seem to obey the same physical laws as ours, it's presumably not on a planet identical to ours. Tyler: I agree that Oz has almost certainly been inhabited for several thousand years. (It had been inhabited long enough to have quite a few kingdoms at least 700 years ago, we know from YELLOW KNIGHT.) But I don't know that it's as many as 12,000. How did Marcus Mebes convince you that "Zixi" should be pronounced "Zee-zee"? Did he find another word in English where an "x" between two "i"s was pronounced as "z"? (Marcus seems to have had some odd ideas about pronunciation.) Danny: I assumed the book I bought was given up by the parent because it's unlikely she would have been old enough by the time I bought it to have a grown child, and if a child goes off selling her parent's books when she's still a minor, that's another sad story. (Judging by the script, Patty was no more than 10-11 years old in 1950, and I bought the book in 1978 or 1979. So unless she had a child when she was no more than 20, the child wouldn't have been 18 in time to sell the book to the store where I bought it.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:20:06 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Oz I spoke to Fred Meyer on Monday, he is now out of the nursing home and living at his sister's house. He seems to be in good spirits, and will soon be resuming therapy. I will be visiting him (with my wife and Jamie) there August 8, and will report back on his condition. He has so far had only one visitor from the Oz circle. I will add to Jane's comments on the benifits of IWOC membership that members not only receive the BUGLE (with its excellent reviews [all right reviewers, send me your reviews for the Fall issue ASAP]) but also the OZ OBSERVER and OZ GAZETTE. You also have the opportunity to purchase some Oz products and publicastions that simply are not available anywhere else. Dave: I remember first seeing THE WIZARD OF OZ on its first re-release (1948?). At the beginning of the film it said color by Technicolor but it started in browns and whites. I remember a feeling of disappointment--is this technicolor, but when Dorothy opened the door suddenly we had color, it was magical. When the film was first shown on television it was in plack and white. At that lime most television sets were black and white and color was an expensive rarity. When they did start showning the film on television in color they showed the Kansas scenes in black and white (not the sepia tones it was originally shown in, because it would have been expensive to broadcast them in color just for the sake of brownish tones. Therefore all television showings of the film had the Kansas parts in black and white, as did 16mm prints that were available for rental, as did all videotape versions until the 50th anniversary version in 1989 when (thanks in part to the work of John Fricke) people were finally able to see the film again as the filmmakers had intended it with the sepia tones. BTW is there really a Donald Duck HACC? Steve ("If I were a rich man") T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:57:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Boundless Magic in Oz 1) Tyler, fairy magic is called "boundless" in _Queen Zixi of Ix_ in the last paragraph of Chapter 6. Apparently not all fairies are equally skilled in use of magic. I theorize that there are beings whose knowlege of the Magic Machine makes them the magical equivalent of our computer wizards. Fortunately Barry and I left plenty of information on the Magic Machine unresolved, to be filled in later (if ever). 2) Chris, I don't know about Kole, which is why I didn't comment on her, though so far I haven't found anything about her, or for the Greek Lillith or the female Ganymede either for that matter. Some source would be appreciated. 3) Dave, wouldn't a duck eating turkey be about as cannibalistic as a human eating a bat? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:54:39 -0400 From: homer What is up with the Oz Observer and Oz Gazette? Shouldn't they be out by now? I thought that there was a spring/summer issue. Also, I bought Hallmark's "Glinda" ornament last year. Is it the first in the series, or last, or what? ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:41:29 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-24-96 David Hulan: But a *favorite* character need not necessarily be an *admirable* character. I don't think there's one character in "Alice in Wonderland" (except, of course, Alice) to whom I'd go with a problem, but that doesn't mean I don't have my favorites. Steve T.: "Lazar Wolf"? What are you, doing a production of "Fiddler on the Roof"? Scott Cummings: Hear, hear! -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:51:55 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Munchkin Convention Just in case there's someone out there who wants the tiniest bit more incentive to come to the Munchkin Convention: Eric Shanower told me today that he's added some additional info to his talk on illustrating "The Wicked Witch of Oz". The talk is now entitled "The Wicked Witch, The Runaway and Me". There, now doesn't that make you want to run out and mail in that (late) registration form? -- Eleanor "nine days and counting" Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:05:43 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-24-96 "X" is always pronounced "ks" (sometimes altered to "gz" by the phonetic context) in English, with only three exceptions I know of. 1) When it occurs initially in an English word of Greek origin. 2) When correctly pronouncing a non-English word. 3) In the name "Xavier", which is simply a mistake hallowed by custom. (Centuries ago, Spanish "x" was pronounced like English "sh"; thus "xeres" -> "sherry". Later, it came to be pronounced like English "h", and, last of all, it was abolished from Spanish and replaced by "j". _Vide_ modern Spanish "Mejico" and "Don Quijote". [Spanish scholars feel free to correct me; virtually all I know about Spanish is made up of odd little details that I picked up incidentally to learning something else.]) "Zixi" comes under none of these rules, and I cannot even for an instant imagine Baum using the spelling "Zixi" if he meant "Zizi". // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:21:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Ozbucket >Besides, I want to stick them into a Skeezik book, Is that Skeeziks of "Gasoline Alley" or the one in "Uncle Wiggly" that was always going to nibble his ears, or what? By the way, welcome back...... Faintly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:25:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-24-96 Dave: I saw THE WIZARD as a very little girl in '49. It still had the sepia to technicolor moment, and I remember it well. I was impressed and delighted by it. Steve: "The Pronunciad" was published in OZIANA '84, I think. I dealt with kahl-eye-dah/cal-id-ah, ee-vil-doo/ee-vahl-doe, and guff/goof, as I recall. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:20:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Jane: I use Microsoft Excel to keep track of my books, although I do not include publisher, date and edition information. I also use Paradox to work on some of my projects. Earl: Our Earth has a diameter of just about 8,000 miles, plenty of room for many kingdoms and a metallic core, so I'll take your advice and hang on to my compass. ********** SPOILER FOR YELLOW KNIGHT ********** Steve: Ploppa is just one of many characters that have come and gone, although Hokus DID specifically promise to visit him again, and Ploppa seems to me to be a noble character. Perhaps Hokus did visit him again, as the Yellow Knight, in a heretofore unwritten adventure. Sadly, such a story cannot be written for several years, unless somebody thinks they can get away with writing and publishing it... ********** END OF SPOILER FOR YELOW KNIGHT********** Greek Mythology: According to one of my professors, Greek Mythology is full of more contradictions and inconsistancies than all the Oz books put together. There are undoubtedly many stories that some of us have never heard of, and they probably exist in several variations. I have been charged with the task of finding Marcus's work and retrieving it, and I shall make the attempt as soon as possible. Danny: I am working of an objective way to measure "title" versus "supporting" characters, and it may be available in 20 or 30 years. David and Danny: Donald's aversion to eating his own kind is similar to one of two reasons Jack Pumpkinhead gave for not eating pumpkins: (1) he would be a cannibal, and (2): He can't eat! :-) --Tyler ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 25-Jul-96 00:23:17 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things POSTMARK: If you accept both HACC theory and Tyler's AL ("Age of Light") scheme, then the Ozian postmark for today's date would be July 24, AL 94. (AL 1 = AD 1903, the year of Ozma's ascention according to HACC). DUCK SOUP: Aaron wrote: >3) Dave, wouldn't a duck eating turkey be about as cannibalistic as a >human eating a bat? No, IMHO a duck eating a Triceratops would be as cannibalistic as a human eating a bat. ( Oh dear -- the dino issue again! :) ) If course, what I really can't figure out is how a duck could ever *bite into* a turkey! Billina: I'm leaving! I find this whole discussion *disgusting*! SUPPORTING CHARACTERS: I guess I should say now who *my* favorites are -- The Adepts hands down, all the way! They are by far the sweetest, cutest, most adorable, and most lovable people in all of Oz!!! ( Okay, will that do?...Will you stop twisting my arm now, girls? :) :) :) ) JUNK MAIL: This is not a strictly Ozzy matter but it us an Internetty one: Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed a significant jump in the amount of junk E-mail they're receiving...I thought that Internet Bill was supposed to *reduce* obscenity on the Net! ----------- Begin forwarded message ------------ Date: Wednesday 24-Jul-96 15:47:47 From: Technochic Computers, Inc. To: Princess Ozma Subject: Extremely Urgent -- Read now or we blow up Mount Munch!!! YES!!! YOU TOO CAN EARN MONEY AT HOME!!! Technochic Computers now presents its model 9000B! Technochic 9000B will satisfy your home needs! With our high-quality hardware and user-friendly software that's so simple it operates itself, you can earn big bucks! Whether you're a queen, a princess, a wizard, a sorceress, a stuffed wise man, a metallic emperor, a stuffed poet, an arthopodian professor, or a farmer with a fruitier head than Carmen Miranda, Technochic 9000B is the computer for you! SEND NO EMERALDS! Just copy this message 47 times and send it to 47 of your friends, and you will receive a free Technochic 9000B computer with pre-installed software guaranteed to increase your productivity, enhance your social life, give you influence in high places, triple your income, stop your balding, let you lose 40 pounds in six days, and get you a date with Oksana Baiul! And if you act now, we will also send you a free gift of a Slice-Rite Tomato slicer, guaranteed to slice tomatoes of any shape, size or color! OUR OPERATORS STANDING BY!!! JUST HIT THE REPLY KEY ON YOUR COMPUTER OR CALL 1-800-555-4747 AND CALL RIGHT NOW!!! REMEMBER: Technochic -- "The sophisticated computer for the sophisticated user" (Note: If you are an immortal fairy queen, or you already own a Technochic 9000B computer, please disregard this notice.) ------------ End forwarded message ------------ -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 26, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:00:51 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission Barbara DeJohn writes in the 7/25 Digest You mean when I'm not being a door? David Hulan writes in the 7/25 Digest Then there is a tenuous connection, sort of, as I worked 9 months for the American Optical Co. in 1963. Dave Hardenbrook writes in the 7/25 Digest Yes, *ordinary* ducks lack teeth. However, I seem to recall that in the cartoons Donald Duck did have teeth -- whenever his expression called for it, usually when he was very angry. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:44:00 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Various comments: Favorite non-title characters: The Woozy and Carter Green are my favorite non-title characters. There's just something really fun about them. IWOC membership: I'd just like to second Jane's and Steve's comments. 8 days to Munchkin. Wish I could be there for Friday night (I'll try to ge a good citizen and stay at least relatively close to the speed limit trying to get down there ;) Nate Chris: Glad to see your back! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:31:14 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-96 Dick: My daughter read a few of my Oz books, too, but the only one she really liked wasn't strictly an Oz book at all - it was THE SEA FAIRIES. If I ever have any grandchildren, I'll try to do better with them. (Granted, I didn't have the best chance with my daughter, since she didn't live with me from ages 15 months to 17 years. Just seeing her on weekends didn't give me proper opportunity to indoctrinate...) Aaron: Why bring up bats? A duck eating a turkey would be about as cannibalistic as a human eating a cow; the relationship is comparable. Eleanor: A favorite character need not be admirable, but other things being equal, I regard admirable characters with more favor than those less admirable. (Which doesn't mean that I don't find less admirable characters more fun to write about!) Wish I could make it to Munchkin, but not this year. Maybe next. John: Agree entirely with your analysis of "Zixi". Tyler: >I am working of an objective way to measure "title" versus "supporting" >characters, and it may be available in 20 or 30 years. Don't you mean "principal" vs. "supporting" characters? "Title" characters seem pretty unambiguous to me, except in the rare cases like "Scalawagons" or "Magical Mimics", where the title refers to a group - do we count King Umb and Queen Ra as title characters or not? But otherwise, either a character appears in the title of a book or he/she doesn't. Dave: LOL at your "junk mail". (I did get the second piece of junk E-mail I can remember on AOL yesterday, though.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:19:23 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Jim Nitch and Dot bat Edom Robin O.: > Onyx Madden is really James E. Nitch of Southern California. Jane: > Onyx Madden is Jim Nitch. Earl: > Onyx Madden <= Jim Nitch, I think. Dave Hulan: > Others will probably tell you this as well, but Onyx Madden's real name is > James Nitch. Steve Teller: > The real name of Onyx Madden is Jim Nitch. OK, but what _Jim Nitch's_ real name? :-) BTW, If Dorothy's father's name happened to be Edom, then a dire prophecy awaits her in Lamentations 4:21 Also, Steve, OK, OK, what gives with the _Fiddler_ references? --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:13:32 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: (no subject) Eleanor: You're right. The Pittsburg Community Theatre production of "Fiddler" opens Friday (and I am the only person associated with the production who's Jewish). (If I send you my copy of the Copleman MAGICAL MONARCH could you get it signed--and return it to me?) Aaron: I suspect that Kole is an error for Kore (the maiden) another name for Persephone, whom the Romans called Proserpine. Steve (welcome from Anatevka) T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:04:49 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Digest stuff Dave: I first saw THE WIZARD OF OZ in New York, in 1939 during the opening week there. I don't recall which of the great old movie houses was showing the film, but, as a ten year old, I was awed by the immense size of the theatre. The movie did start in sepia-tone, and the impact of the scene when Dorothy opens the door of the farmhouse in Munchkinland was something I will always remember! I also recall being very upset by the shoes NOT being silver, and by Billie Burke identifying herself as Glinda, the Witch of the North! I liked the movie, but couldn't understand why it wasn't made faithful to the book. Homer(Tinman): As Jane mentioned in yesterday's Digest, in 1994 Hallmark offered the "Fab Four", Dorothy, Scarecrow, Tin Woodman & Cowardly Lion ornaments. So I guess last year's Glinda is the fifth in the series, and this year, the Wicked Witch is the sixth. Eleanor: I need no added incentive, as I,too, am counting the days to Munchkin Con, although I'm sure Eric Shanower's talk will be great. I look forward to meeting you and John, as well as seeing/meeting Earl, Scott, Herm, Nate, and the Warkalas and any other Digest folks who'll be there!! :-) :-) Eric: For Ozsakes, pardon yourself from your self-imposed exile and rejoin us on the Digest. Your regular comments are sorely missed. Dick Randolph (DIXNAM@aol.com) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:42:29 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: stuff Jim Vander Noot was talking about listing any Ozzy events on the Club web site. The regular calendar is still a go, and I still need the nifty pictures you were drawing for it. Okay, I have had requests to update the list again. It isn't that different, but I will submit to the public request and TRY to attach it. So far, I have had bad luck trying to attach files so that they are readable, but Rinny's aunt can read 'em. I wonder if it's because she is with aol, or she has a mac, or what. If this is readable, I'll see it tomorrow. If not, and you want it sooner, I can try to type in all in again as a "compose mail." I hope it will not come to that. I get so awfully sick of typing my own name. [Here's Chris' list -- It arrived on my computer in MIME-64 format, and then after I decoded it, it was a WriteNow (a Mac Word Processing package I gather) file which I had to Vanilla-ASCII-ize in order to put it in the Digest. Chris, FYI, I think you would have more luck sending text files if you could find out how WriteNow exports straight ASCII text ( If in fact it can..If it can't, I'd suggest switching Word Processors :) ) -- Dave] LIST OF PUBLICATIONS FROM BUCKETHEAD ENTERPRISES OF OZ All prices are postage paid. For further details, send a Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope and $1.00 to us at 1606 Arnold Palmer Loop, Belen, NM 87002. order # 8.) *A Viking in Oz* by Chris Dulabone $6.50 13.) *The Deadly Desert Around Oz* Chris Dulabone/Leigh Perry $10.00 14.) *Veggy Man of Oz* Nate Barlow $10.00 16.) *The Magic Diamond of Oz* Danica Libutti, et al $6.00 17.) *The Crocheted Cat in Oz* Hugh Pendexter/CG Taber $10.00 19.) *The Colorful Kitten of Oz* Chris Dulabone/Melody Grandy $10.00 20.) *Wooglet in Oz* Hugh Pendexter/David St. Albans $10.00 22.) *Skeezik and the Mys Tree of Oz* Marcus Mebes $7.00 23.) *A Wonderful Journey in Oz* Ryan Gannaway $5.00 24.) *Dorothy Returns to Oz* Shawn Billman, et al $5.00 27.) *The Dinamonster of Oz* Kenneth Gage Baum/Gita Baum Morena $10.00 30.) *Dagmar in Oz* Chris Dulabone/Charlene Greski $6.00 31.) *The Flying Bus in Oz* Ruth/Corinne Morris $10.00 32.) *Lunarr and Maureen in Oz* Chris Dulabone/Marcus Mebes $8.00 33.) *The Emerald Ring of Oz* Jeremy Steadman/Chris Dulabone $10.00 34.) *Bungle and the Magic Lantern of Oz* Greg Gick/David St. Albans $10.00 35.) *The Magic Tapestry of Oz* Marcus Mebes & Chris Dulabone $8.00 36.) *The Odd Tale of Osoenft in Oz* Marcus Mebes et al $15.00 37.) *The Disenchanted Princess in Oz* Melody Grandy $25.00 38.) *Invisible Inzi of Oz* Baum/Wauchope/Shanower $10.00 39.) *Cory in Oz* Allison McBain $10.00 40.) *The Lunechien Forest of Oz* Chris Dulabone/Mark Woody $10.00 41.) *The Case of The Framed Fairy in Oz* Gil Joel $5.00 42.) *Kaliko in Oz* K. Kline/Michael Goldmann $10.00 43.) *The Marvelous Monkeys of Oz* Chris Dulabone/Paul McGrory $10.00 44.) *Egors Funhouse Goes to Oz* Chris Dulabone $28.00 45.) *Red Reera the Yookoohoo & the Enchanted Easter Eggs of Oz* RG Quinn/Marcus Mebes (as Anon E. Mouse) $10.00 46.) *Brewster Bunny & the Case of the Outrageous Enchantments of Oz* Marcus Mebes $2.00 with additional order of $15.00 or more, $3.00 a la carte 47.) *The Healing Power of Oz* Gil Joel/Marcus Mebes $12.00. $20.00 for limited color plate edition 48.) *The Lost Emeralds of Oz* Fred Otto/Derek Sullivan $10.00 49.) *The Haunted Castle of Oz* Marcus Mebes $10.00 50.) *The Fantastic Funhouse of Oz* Chris Dulabone $12.00 51.) *Fwiirp in Oz* Nate Barlow, Marcus Mebes, et al $10.00 52.) *The Tin Castle of Oz* Peter Schulenburg $12.00 53.) *Pegasus in Oz* Annie Brzozowski/Steve Burt $10.00 Forthcoming (F) 54.) *A Queer Quest for Oz* Chris Dulabone/Mark Woody $12.00 (F) NON-BUCKETHEAD ITEMS THAT WERE ALSO WILLING TO OFFER TO OUR READERS: A2.) *A Murder in Oz* Jack Snow $3.00 A4.) *Oz Activity Book* ABQ Ozmite Club $2.00 A5.) *Sail Away to Oz* Marcus Mebes $5.00 B1.) *Radioactive Teddy Bear from !CENSORED! Destroys Oz* Marcus Mebes & Peter Sandbothe $10.00 OZIAN SEAHORSE PRESS (order from BEoO) OSP1.) *Time Travelling in Oz* Ryan Gannaway/Marcus Mebes $8.00 OSP2.) *Sinister Gases in Oz* Ryan Gannaway/Marcus Mebes $10.00 OSP3.) *As the Clock Strikes Oz* Ryan Gannaway/Derek Sullivan (F) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:32:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Titular: The title character is not necessarily the main character. Dorothy was the main character in _Wizard_ and also _Ozma_. Fear not! My objective measure is coming, not soon, but it is range of the Enterprise's long range sensors. O-Ho! Ojo! There is no evidence that Ojo is of Spanish or Hispanic origin, and it is not likely that Baum would have written Ojo to be pronounced in Spanish. Melody and David: As David once remarked, the Oz "Universe" seems to be smaller than ours, since stars seem to be in their atmosphere. David alone: 12,000 may be to long. There is really no evidence, but I would assume that they have been around at least 3,000 years. "Zixi" is probably not pronounced "Zee-Zee", but instead my original "Zick-see". The same also probably holds for "lur-LEEN-uh" versus "LUR-line". Steve: I suppose that (in theory, at least) there is a HACC for every series. As soon as something begins, people get a picture of what the whole thing is supposed to be like. If something comes out that violates that "vision", then our mythical person may not accept it as "true" history. This can get taken to extremes, of course. Aaron: I finally found the reference to "boundless" fairy powers. It is at the end of Chapter 12. "She (Zixi) knew that the powers of fairies are boundless". This may be Zixi's opinion, based on the fact that fairies are definitely more powerful than Zixi herself. As has been mentioned, there appear to be several types of fairies, and not all are necessarily equal in power. JUNK MAIL: I have noticed a slight uptick in this, mostly dealing with pyramid shcemes and people wanting me to sell their product. Of course, they are always looking for energetic self-starters, and the amount of money you make is entirely up to you! Which reminds me, I've got this great stuff that all of you can sell... (STOMP)!! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:04:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Misc. I think that the search for a literal explanation of Oz's spatial location violates the way we imagine these stories, but the idea of an alternate universe, suggested by Melody and Robin, seems more appropos than other suggestions. That certainly seems to be the implication of the first chapter of _Road_, where the familiar rural intersection in Kansas suddenly morphs into the centerpoint of roads radiating out toward countless destinations, none of them recognizable. Chris: (I'm glad you are back!) I haven't ever heard of a myth of a "female Ganymede" who is swallowed by a monster. The usual account is that Ganymede's female counterpart is Hebe (aka Ganymeda), daughter of Zeus and Hera, who served as cup-bearer to the gods until she married Hercules; Zeus then abducted the boy Ganymede to replace Hebe as cup-bearer. As for representations of Ganymede as a woman: this is very unlikely, at least for painters and sculptors up to the nineteenth century, who took their cue from the authority of the classical texts. These texts (Homer, Ovid, Horace) all represent Ganymede as the epitome of male beauty. On the other hand, who knows what mischief has beset the image of Ganymede in the twentieth century! In any event, of all the transformations described in Ovid's Metamorphoses, the only transgendering I can think of is the blind prophet Tiresias, who was actually transtransgendered, first changed from a man to a woman and later changed back to a man again. On the sepia-to-technicolor moment in the MGM movie: in all the older prints of the film that I've seen, the switch to color comes at the point where Dorothy begins to open the door, which means that the interior of the house and Dorothy herself are suddenly in color before she actually sees Munchkinland in all its glory. In the 1989 video, however, some clever computer work must have been done to maintain the interior in sepia while the view through the door is in full color. (Dorothy herself is halfway between sepia and color.) Has anyone else noticed this? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 22:54:45 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: From Scott Olsen Thanks for the comments about pronouncing Zixi of Ix. I, too, always pronounced it Zicksee of Icks, but one day I heard Zizi of Iz and it got me to wondering that maybe I'd been wrong all these years. Another question. We had a neighborhood watch meeting last night and the sheriff recommended marking all valuables with your driver's license number. He said that's the only way they could really identify an item. A question: where (or if) would you mark your Oz/Baum books? Suggestions? From one Scott to Scott C: Great Post! Thanks. Scott O. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:36:37 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-96 Hi again! The puppies are still keeping me busy, so this'll have to be brief. Yes, I'm still officially a copyright lawyer, so to the best of my knowledge a copyrighted character in a work that somehow falls into the public domain can only be used as seen in that work. Sometimes not even that...I believe the Superman cartoons done by the Fleischer Studio in the '40's inadvertently fell into public domain, but you still can't use Superman even if you stick to the Fleischer version. Well, maybe you could, but would *you* want to go against the combined lawyers of Time Warner and new partner Ted Turner? (At that, DC Comics is more generous than some, even with its lesser characters... or there'd never have been newspaper strips called ROBOTMAN or BIZARRO, unrelated to the earlier DC characters by those names.) While we're on the subject of comics, Donald Duck *does* have teeth, though they're only visible when he gets angry--at least as drawn by Carl Barks, his definitive artist. (Needless to say, Donald is about as different from a real duck as a human being is from a spider monkey.) Time I talked about Oz, wasn't it? My favorite supporting character is probably Professor Wogglebug (yes, he was the title character of *a* book, and a Baum book at that, but not one of the FF). And I once had a chance to see THE WIZARD OF OZ in a theatre...it's too bad it can't be seen more often in that venue. (Now, if I could only get a chance to see the *original* Baum/Tietjens/Denslow musical...) Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:53:00 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-96 "A-froe-DIE-tee" isn't classical; it's English/classical. Classical is "A-froe-DEE-tay". (Well, the last sound is really more the "e" in "beg" than the "ay" in "bay".) "LOOR-leen?" Surely "loor-LEEN" is more likely? (Of course part of the problem is that the "-ine" ending of English names is French -- but the whole question of how Ozish came to be identical to English is a most vexing one, given the fantastic evolution of Modern English.) // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 25-Jul-96 20:06:28 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THE C-OZ-MOS: Tyler wrote: >As David once remarked, the Oz "Universe" seems to be smaller than ours, >since stars seem to be in their atmosphere. While there seems to be circumstantial evidence that the Ozzy Universe is Ptolomaic, I prefer to think of it as being like ours, and that things like Anuther "Planet" are really just very low-orbiting natural satellites that our Earth doesn't have. (At one point I actually considered in _Locasta_ putting *two* moons in Oz's sky, but I decided that was a bit much, especially since once I had that second moon, then I wanted a third moon, and then a second sun, and then a ring system, and then...) OTHER HACC'S: Tyler wrote: >I suppose that (in theory, at least) there is a HACC for every series. I have toyed with the idea of creating an HACC for my favorite sitcom, _The Mary Tyler Moore Show_, since it contains some contradictions that need explaining. Most of them are minor however, and maybe not worth writing out in an elaborate timeline. FWIW, there appear to be only two of the 168 episodes of _Mary T. M._ that are "Historically Inaccurate". One is Episode 90, in which Mary fights to start a Sunday talk show (which turns out to star the ever-egotistical Ted and Sue-Ann), even though Mary has produced a legitimate Sunday talk show (around which the plots of various previous episodes revolved) for years. And the other is Episode 164, in which-- after 7 years of Murray Slaughter's three daughters unambiguously being named Bonnie, Ellen, and Susie--we suddenly have a daughter appear named *Laurie*! ****** MOPPET ABOUT LAURIE SLAUGHTER ****** At some point, one of Murray's daughters travelled to Baumgea and attempted to conquer Oz. She failed, and was forced to drink from the Fountain of Oblivion, which made her forget everything...Later, she assumed the name Laurie. When she returned to the James L. Brooks-Allen Burns Universe, she regained her memory, but opted to retain the name "Laurie". :) ****** END MOPPET ****** -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 27, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 07:08:54 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission Mike Turniansky writes in the 7/26 Digest Ah, so we are back to naked Oz royalty again. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 11:51:54 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-26-96 Chris/Dave: WriteNow (4.0, at least, which is the version I have) can definitely save a file as ASCII text. Just pull down "Save As..." from the File menu, and on the lower left of the dialog box it gives a list of possible formats. Click on "Text", give the file a name, and you're done. You do, of course, lose all the special formatting like italics, boldface, etc., but they get lost anyhow when they're sent out to the Digest. (You can attach files in other formats, and people reading the attached file with the proper software get the special formatting, but so far you can't do that with the main body of E-mail.) And I'm glad to see you back, Chris! John: I was referring to the way Classical names are pronounced in English, as opposed to the way they were pronounced in the original Classical language. Ozish is, after all, supposed to be the same as English. And I pronounce "Lurline" to rhyme with "you're mine", not "you're mean". Which is the way it would be pronounced if it were a standard English word, not imported from some other language. (But you're right that the majority of names in English that end in "-ine" are from the French, are accented on the last syllable, and rhyme with "machine". I'll have to think about this...) Dave: The Ozzy universe can't be just like ours physically; there are clearly heavenly bodies (e.g. the "star" in COWARDLY LION) that are well within the atmosphere, and there's no way that they could stay up there under our laws of physics. (Anuther could be exoatmospheric, since Planetty and Thun probably didn't need air to breathe before Jinnicky's "treatment" of them, but the star in CL has to be within the atmosphere or Bob Up and Notta would have had major problems and Nick couldn't have flown.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 11:57:17 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest For Rich Morrissey, It is difficult to mark books so a thief cannot remove same, and still not deface the book and reduce its value (for example using indelible magic markers to write your name). If you insist on a name or number, writing with a thin magic marker or ball point pen on the bottom of the UNOPENED book (across the page ends) is exceedingly difficult to remove. One can also use invisible ultra-violet ink on the ownership page (although this may become visible with time) My favorite scheme is to pick a standard page, say page 50, and pencil in the last three letter "o"s on the page. Then, if a thief is caught with your books, you can tell the police how to verify ownership. Once the thief has sold the books to an antiquarian shop, recovery is questionable.. However for truly valuable books, the trade magazine "Antiquarian Bookman" (201+772-0020) has a service where they will publish titles of stolen materials so that book dealers can be aware of them as people come in to sell items. The AB can also tell to how to list stolen items on the internet through the Antiquarian Book Dealers Association (ABAA) of America. And, of course, if you have a loss, you should IMMEDIATELY go to the Yellow Pages and alert all the book dealers in your area. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:09:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-26-96 > From: DIXNAM@aol.com > Subject: Digest stuff > > Eric: > For Ozsakes, pardon yourself from your self-imposed exile and rejoin us on > the Digest. Your regular comments are sorely missed. Well, that's one . But to be honest, even if I had been answering posts, I doubt I'd have said much. I haven't felt any pressing need to respond to much, it's all either been said before, someone else has given the reply I would have given, or it just hasn't been of interest to me. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:57:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Oz story A GENERIC OZ STORY BY TYLER JONES "GRRRAAAHHHHH!" screamed Vitreous the Evil Guy. "I'm going to conquer Oz!" "Oh please," muttered Taffeta, wife of Vitreous and thus the Queen of Tralinda. "That's only been tried about a billion times and it's never worked. Now if you want my advice, I'd tell you to . . . " "SILENCE!" roared Vitreous, throwing his crown at his wife. "I have magic power now, nothing can stop me. HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!" Meanwhile, in America, Timmy and Tammy were walking home from school when suddenly there was a huge explosion that blew them clear to Oz. They didn't know where they were, but soon they came to a city full of strange looking people doing strange looking things. "Let's go in and see what it's like," suggested Tammy, and Timmy was agreeable. "AH HA!" yelled one guard as the two children entered. "We're going to imprison you," said a second guard. "And make you into slaves," said a third. "Take them to the king!" said a fourth, and took Timmy and Tammy to the royal palace. "AH HA!" cried the King, when he saw the two children. "We're going to imprison you," said an adviser to the king. "And make you into slaves," said a second. Luckily, a bunch of weird stuff happened and allowed the two to escape. They walked a while and came to another strange looking city and decided to go in and see what it was like. "AH HA!" yelled one guard as the two children entered. "We're going to imprison you," said a second guard. "And make you into slaves," said a third. "Take them to the king!" said a fourth, and took Timmy and Tammy to the royal palace. "AH HA!" cried the King, when he saw the two children. "We're going to imprison you," said an adviser to the king. "And make you into slaves," said a second. By this time, the children realized that they were in the Land of Oz. Luckily, more weird stuff happened and the two children escaped just in time to get to ANOTHER strange looking city. "Let's not go in this time" said Timmy. "I'm getting a little tired of being captured and made into a slave." "We have to," said Tammy. "It says right here that all travelers to Oz must be captured and made into slaves by people of three strange looking cities". "Where did you get the SOGRAA?" groaned Timmy. Sure enough, the Standard Ozian Guide for Required Adventuring Activities stated quite clearly that they simply MUST go into at least three strange looking cities of strange looking people doing strange looking things. Following the rules, they entered and were captured by people of FIVE strange looking cities. "Hey, that's not fair. We were only supposed to be captured three times," complained Tammy. "Maybe we'll get extra credit" muttered Timmy dryly. "What's next on our little programmed adventure?" According to the SOGRAA, read Tammy, they were supposed to locate and try to stop an attempt to conquer Oz. "Whaddya mean TRY to stop it? Why aren't we allowed to succeed? Skip to the end and see what's up" said Timmy. However, the SOGRAA would not allow them to look at future pages. They walked around and in the course of their search for a conqueror, they found a cave full of many interesting objects. "WOW!" yelled Timmy, "A rug that grants wishes! Hey! A pebble that grants wishes! A chair that grants wishes. A wish granting lamp!" Wishing tables, cups, saucers, shoes, socks, wands, hats and pens were in abundance. Timmy eagerly began to cram all he could find into a huge bag. The bag, of course, granted wishes too. "Hold it. The SOGRAA says only to take one" Tammy stated authoritatively, waving the Guide in Timmys face. Grumbling, Timmy put most of his loot back. "I'll keep the pebble. It's small and I can carry it in my pocket," offered Timmy. The twins then left the cave and began asking the animals in the area if they knew about any attempt to conquer Oz. They finally found out about Vitreous and were soon standing before him in his throne room. "So nice to have you in my power," whispered Vitreous craftily. "Now that you're here, my conquest of Oz will be complete. Nothing can stop me!" The two children stood frozen in fear until Tammy had an idea. "Use the wishing pebble, Timmy! Use the pebble to stop him!" she screamed. "Oh, yeah! It's right here!" answered Timmy and fumbled in his pocket for the magic pebble. There was no need, however, for at that moment... POOF! A cloud of pink smoke appeared in the throne room and two little girls walked out of it. "Why, it's Dorothy and Ozma," said Timmy, recognizing them from his collection of Oz books. The two Princesses had, of course, been watching the ENTIRE episode in the magic picture and stepped in at the last minute to save everything. With a whispered command to the magic belt, all problems were solved in an instant. After that, they all trooped off to the big party at the Emerald City, where Timmy and Tammy told their adventures to everybody. And let me tell you, Dorothy and Ozma were just amazed at all the strange and wonderful things that happened, even though they had already seen it all in the magic picture. The wishing pebble was put in the emerald safe next to the wishing pills, wishing powders, wishing emeralds, wishing . . . (well, you get the idea). They then got to meet all the famous Oz characters. "Glad you could make it," said the Scarecrow. "Nice to see you," said the Tin Woodman. "I was afraid for a while," said the Cowardly Lion. "Everything's all right now," said Jack Pumpkinhead. "Blah blah blah" said Betsy Bobbin. "Blah blah blah" said Trot. "Blah blah blah" said Scraps, said Ojo, said Cap'n Bill, said the Shaggy Man, said Billina, said the Hungry Tiger, said the Woozy, said Hank the Mule, said the Sawhorse, said Button Bright and on and on and on and on . . . Finally, Timmy and Tammy were wished home by the magic belt and everything was nice and normal again. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 12:56:39 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Donald Duck HACC-- (That sounds like one of his temper tantrums-- "Hacc-Hacc-Hacc-Hacc!") Have you heard of the new television series starring Donald Duck? It's called "Duck Days" and also stars his nephews as *teenagers!* I know this is off the scope of this Digest, but they may be treading HICC waters with this one! Inaccurate Mythology-- Have you heard of the next feature film from Disney? It's HERCULES! Now if you get upset over a change of gender of a minor mythological character, just imagine what Disney will do (and maybe, will HAVE to do) with Hercules' story! :) :) :) Enough Disney for now. . . Hmmm, speaking of gender, it seems that predominately everyone's favorite non-FF titled characters happen to be male. (I think the Woozy got the most votes-- 2) Is this because the strong female characters of Baum's happen to take the spotlight, or is it just one of those things? Also, it just hit me, I can't think off the top of my head what gender Bungle and Eureka are. I want to say male and female, respectively, but I'm going to run over to my bookshelf (downstairs) to make sure. Maybe David can post an answer for tomorrow! To the books! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:10:46 -0700 (PDT) From: U_594910545_19_A@xband.com (Malestorm@xband.com) Subject: Re:New OZ Book (1) XBAND From: 'Malestorm' (U_594910545_19_A@xband.com) XBAND To : "daveh47@delphi.com " XBAND Subj: "Re:New OZ Book (1)" XBAND Date: 1996 7 26 1:10PM PDT Message: Have written novel with MGM character Almira Gulch replacing Dorothy. Storyline is faithful to Baum's 1st book. Looking for copyright permission(MGM-Turner) and publisher. New twist(er) and material. Think R.L.Stine or Tim Burton. Can Ozzy Digest help? Please write back. -- Sent from the XBAND Video Game Network -=*=- info@xband.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:30:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Bats in Oz 1) David, I used bats because I wanted something about as distant from humans as ducks are from turkeys. Monkeys seemed too close and cows too far. 2) Mike, looked up that reference in lamentations. It concieveably might be used as the basis for a story, but it hinges on Dorothy's father having the improbable name of Edom. Then again, there are people in Israel walking around named nimrOwdh and kozbIy. (I'm still wondering what the parents of the latter were thinking...) 3) John, Barry and I hypothesize that sometime during the reign of Pastoria, somebody miscast a spell which resulted in changing everyone on Lurline's World into anglophones. 4) Tyler, David, Barry and I assume that Lurline's World is part of a more or less ordinary life-inhabited solar system, the "stars" floating around in the atmosphere being held up by magic, as skylands are. (I had to decide this because I already wrote up the incident in which Hiergargo's airplane hit a star.) As for Anuther Planet, Barry and I have not come to a consensus onto what it is. Barry has suggested that it may not even exist, Planetty and Thun being purely nonhistorical, which if true, makes me wonder what would happen if someone tried to visit Anuther Planet... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 20:08:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Scott - If you can write it in your book, someone can take it out! I can tell you anecdotally that I have never heard of anyone having their books stolen. Not even Oz books. The folks that are going to rob your house are after money and items readily convertable to cash to support their drug habits. Hmmmmm. If someone does steal your books you better check on your Oz-loving friends.:) Eric, as an admirer of your knowledge I have to observe, it's either feast or famine - is there no happy medium? Well, I am off to my namesake location, "Bear Valley." Along with R&R we will see the "Mommas and the Pappas" that icon of the 60's. Hey, The Kingston Trio is still touring. Book thieves be warned, my house is guarded by an attack cat and other exotic measures. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 21:26:47 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: Favorite supporting character My favorite supporting character is Polychrome. She's cheerful, friendly, a wonderful dancer, and just plain nice to have around. Her own personal quest is usually to wait for rain so that she can get home, but when her friends need help she will always rise to the occasion, even if this means ticking off a scoodler guard, kissing an extremely ugly miner, or even doing repair work on tin objects. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 22:29:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Nate: Speed limits are for the weak! Burn rubber! Of course, I can have this attitude, since the police in this state do not seem to care about speed limits, except near schools. Chris and Dave: If I can ever get around to installing the web software on my computer at home, I will post Chris's list. I can do this over the weekend, although there is not much to differentiate weekends these days. Gordon: I don't think trying to explain the physical location of Oz violates it's image, it's just something fun to do. Now, how many Nomes can dance on the head of a pin? :-) Scott O: As you implied, many people would be hesitant to write things in their Oz books, especially if they are first editions. It might be worthwhile to do, though, if you could find an unobtrusive place. Copyrights: As has been mentioned before, what it really comes down to is the willingness of the copyright holder to pursue the matter. Take Jinnicky, for example. He is PD, as per his appearance his _Silver Princess_, but he can only be used in that capacity. If someone wrote about him and either used new mannerisms or stuff from his original appearance, I doubt that the matter would be pursued. _Superman in Oz_ will have to wait, however, since I am EXTREMELY sure that the combined legal juggernaut of Time Warner/Ted Turner would go after people like sharks! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 21:59:36 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Long Message about Mythology Here's what I got in the library this afternoon: "Ganymeda [note the "a"] was a surname of Hebe [also cupbearer to the gods] under which she was worshipped in a sacred grove at Sicyon and Phlius." Ganymede (with an "e") was male. Always. In fact, in the Middle Ages, Ganymede was used as a synonym for "homosexual". He is presented in several Greek literary works as the perfect boy love object. In some myths, the eagle who carried him off was transformed into the constellation Aquila, and Ganymede into the constellation Aquarius. (Interesting note: in some zodiac systems, Aquarius is represented by an eagle, not a water-bearer.) I could find no Lilith [PLEASE NOTE the spelling] in Greek mythology. She was a female demon in Jewish, Christian and Islamic mythology. In fact, in Islamic mythology she is the wife of the devil and the mother of all evil spirits. She is mentioned in Isaiah 34:14, where the Jerusalem Bible footnote describes her as "a female demon who haunted ruins". There is a Lilaea in Greek mythology. She was one of the Naiades. I could find no reference to Kole. I found Colias (a surname of Aphrodite), Colaenis (a surname of Artemis), Colocasia (a surname of Athena) and Colymbas (one of the Pierides), but no Kole. And yes, you're right, I probably *do* have too much time on my hands! The preceeding information from "The Facts on File Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend" by Anthony S. Mercantante, and "Women of Classical Mythology" by Robert E. Bell. -- Eleanor Kennedy P.S. Dave -- Love your MTM MOPPET! ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 28, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 23:22:57 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: dolls On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 22:54:45 -0400 VUU73@aol.com wrote: >We just lost my daughters complete collection of the 50 th >anniversary Wizard of Oz dolls in a flood. Can you help us >get replacement value of them. They were made in 1988 by >Multi Toys Corp of Cresskill N,J. What a terrible thing to happen! I assume you need the information quickly for insurance purposes as well as actual replacement. The best place to get the replacement value is from a dealer that handles that sort of Oz collectible. I will pass your inquiry along to the Ozzy Digest mailing group. Some of the participants deal in Oz toys and figures and might be able to help you find replacements and determine prices. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 01:52:10 -0600 From: tallison@mcs.com (Tim Allison) Subject: spams and Oz Park(for the Ozzy Digest) But Dave-unwanted ads, even in multiple copies, are not obscene within the meaning of the act! Sorry- I read too much English crime fiction. The police are always saying that. August is fast approaching-any Chicago area Ozites planning to attend the Oz Festival at Oz Park? If so, I'd still like to get together. Carol Mitchell ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 12:14:00 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-26-96 Hi! I don't remember if I've expressed yet how happy I am to have Chris back, so allow me to repeat myself and say that I'm very happy to have Chris back. Now, do you think we could possibly convince Eric to start posting again? Dave - that last MOPPet was just plain silly. :-) I forget who it was that asked about marking Oz books with your license plate number - I hesitate about writing my name in some of my more valuable Oz books. Perhaps you could write the license number on a small peice of paper, and slip it in between the spine of the cover and the spine of the book? That way, you would be able to give the police a description and proof of ownership, without damaging the book. Has anyone ever had Oz books actually stolen from their home? I know that Fred Meyer had some artwork stolen from him - but how about books? |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Gili@scso.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:09:32 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-27-96 Tyler: Your generic Oz story was amusing, though it resembled the outline of a Thompson book rather more than it did any of the non-FF books that I've read (or written) - except that the only books I've read where two US kids come to Oz together are SHAGGY MAN, MAGIC DISHPAN, and GLASS CAT. Of course, you've read a lot more non-FF books than I have. Danny: Bungle and Eureka are both female. Baum refers to the Glass Cat as "it" most of the time in MAGIC, but occasionally as "she" even in that book, and elsewhere he always says "she". Eureka is always "she". Aaron: I don't think cows are any farther from humans genetically than turkeys are from ducks, though I don't have a cladogram to prove it. In both cases they're in separate orders, and not particularly closely-connected ones. Bear: I've heard of people having books stolen, but they were people who had notable collections - and the thieves were people they knew. Most book thefts I hear about are from libraries rather than individuals. But not all thieves are in it to support drug habits. Even discounting used care dealers, there are professional burglars who are in it for the money to support a moderately luxurious life-style, and who wouldn't touch drugs on a bet. Lawrence Block's Bernie Rhodenbarr, while a much more benign person than most professional burglars, isn't pure invention. I know whereof I speak; my wife's best friend's sister was married to one for a while. You might have even heard of him; he operated in the Bay Area and was widely publicized for a while back around 1980 as the "jogging bandit". They eventually caught him, and I think he's still in prison, but he was quite successful for several years there. Still, books are pretty heavy and bulky items for a professional burglar to take; they usually go after cash and jewelry. A book would have to be worth at least a grand, and probably more, to be worth their while. John White: If I were offered the opportunity to meet just one non-title character from Oz, I think it would be Polychrome. At least, if she looked like Neill's pictures. Tyler: I think Superman may be covered by trade-mark law as well as copyright, though I'm not sure about that. And trade marks don't expire. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 18:39:45 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-27-96 Tyler - thank the authors that in most Oz stories, however generic, we get a description of the "weird" things that happened and the unusual cities, etc. Otherwise the lot of us would be a particularly pathetic group of people. ;-) Eleanor - good for you for going and looking up all those names. So Lillith *is* mentioned in the bible, huh? Good that at least on of us has al that time on their hands :-). Aaron - yep, Nimrod is a pretty common name here. I wouldn't be too surprised to meet an Edom either, though I never have. But kozbIy, by that or any other spelling, is a name I would not expect to come across. You're saying you know someone by that name? Personally, I'm not too thrilled about the thought of an Oz book in R.L.Stine style, starring Almira Gulch. What kind of help is this person after, copyright info? Favourite supporting characters: the truth is, though the Woozy is the first that popped to my mind, I more or less agreed with all of you. I know I love the sawhorse, Billina, Polychrome, the tiny piglets (especially Percival), Kabumpo, Eureka and the Glass cat (and I too can never remember which of them is male and which is female), TOTO of course how could we forget him!, the comfortable camel (not that hot about the doubtful dromedary...), Unc Nunkie, Cap'n Bill - and I even like the Nome King(s). I have to love Trot and Betsy, but the truth is, they don't seem to have very distinct personalities, unlike the others I've mentioned. By the way, the definition we used is probably not the best, because Rinkitink, or "the wishing horse", are not really more than supporting characters. Whoops, the (G)Nome King by this definition is not a supporting character! The Wizard is the character named most often in FF titles - and Dorothy merely "costars" with him! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 12:49:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Lurline David H.: I have always assumed that the name is pronounced Lur-LEEN, just like the proper name Lurleen in English (as in Lurleen Burns Wallace, erstwhile Tuscaloosa dimestore clerk and governor of Alabama 1967-68). Also: think of Christine, Ernestine, Geraldine, Francine, Jeanine, Maxine, and Pauline. The only exceptions I can think of are Clementine and (occasionally) Caroline. To my ears, these endings with the long i have the ring of rural America, which doesn't seem quite appropriate for Lurline. :) Danny: Both Bundle and Eureka are females. There's a long-standing association of gender roles with domestic animals: cats are regarded as feminine, dogs as masculine (e.g., Toto), and Baum seems to have bought into this traditional association. But of course BIG cats are masculine again, as in the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger. Gordon Birrell gbirrell@post.cis.smu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 14:39:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest AGOS: Well, I guess Dave decided that my short story was short enough to put into the digest without making it too long. Obviously, it is a satire, but if you haven't read too many of the Oz books (FF and non-FF) you may not get the point. The SOGRAA is probably my favorite element of satire here. Dany: Dorothy refers to Eureka as "she" in _Dot&Wiz_ and in chapter four of _Patchwork Girl_, Baum refers to Bungle as "she". Most of the time, however, Baum refers to Bungle as "it", so it is understandable that her gender is not universally known. ********** SLIGHT SPOILER FOR _SINISTER GASES_ ********** In _Sinister Gases_, Ruggedo visited Anuther Planet. I can't remember the details, but author Ryan Gannaway seemed to imply that it was truly "Another Planet". Perhaps Chris can refresh my memory. ********** END OF SPOILER FOR _SINISTER GASES_ ********** Bear: I agree with your assesment. It is doubtful that most criminals would recognize the value of Oz books, or even realize that books CAN be of value. They usually go for electronics, cash and jewelry. However, your books may be rummaged through, damaged and/or destroyed either out of suspicion that there are valuables in/behind them or simply out of the joy of destroying things. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 15:38:47 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: AAArg! Here is my scenario for a book collector's definitive nightmare: There is a book that he's been wanting for years, and it is suddenly made available. Someone sends him a copy. But when it arrives, it is in a cast-iron box. He can't get it opn. He knows he's got his book, but he can't see or touch it. It drives him insasne, of course. Actually, this just happened to me. Well, sort of. I also got a jolt of my own medicine (what I put you through yesterday with that attached list). Nate Barlow sent me the ms for POLYCHROME IN OZ, which I've been wanting to see for years. But he sent it via e-mail. I tried dragging it onto my MacWrite Pro (as I used to have to with the digest back when it had those LOOOONG posts from me that made it have to be an attached file), but that didn't help. I have the ms, but I can't touch it. It is driving me crazy! It seems that you found some magical way to get the list. What did you do? Would it work for me? I really want to read this book... ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 16:55:11 -0800 (PST) From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) Subject: Generic Oz Tyler, enjoyed your generic Oz story (laughed out loud), but do I detect just the trace of an elevated cynicism level in a professed Oz fan? So sad. (:-)> W. Baldwin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 18:20:31 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-27-96 Tyler, I *LOVED* your "Generic Oz Story"! -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 16:51:07 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Eric-- C'mon, you mean you never once wanted to tell us your favorite non-FF titled character? Look at all those Ozites, raising their hands and saying "ooh ooh! Pick me! Pick me!" Tyler-- Loved your Generic Oz Story. Does this mean you have moved on to another project? :) Also liked your Nome "brainteaser." How about combining the two ideas? "How many Oz citizens does it take to screw in a light bulb?" "Two-- one to explore the area around it and one to run to the Emerald City to have Ozma use her magic belt." (BTW Chris-- hope to keep seeing your posts here!) Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 20:25:11 -0400 From: homer Danny- As I remember, Bungle is female. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 23:05:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: A Generic Oz Story 1) Tyler, the scary thing about your "A Generic Oz Story" is that is eeriely like some things that Thompson wrote. Also, 17 nomes can dance on the head of a pin. 2) Danny, Disney, as much as they tend to warp things, couldn't do any worse than Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, in which any resemblance to Greek myth is purely coincidental and unintended. (This is not a joke.) Also, both Bungle and Eureka are female. 3) Elanor, thanks for doing the research. I assume Lilaea, being a water= goddes, was not also a goddess of fire. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 29, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 15:19:49 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-28-96 Neil drew Eureka in coattails, so maybe he was confused about her gender too. I think that in my original manuscript for "Pigmentation" I wrote as if Eureka were female and Bungle (whom I called Bungles, because I had a stuffed raccoon named Bundles and I had the names confused) were male - but Robin as the conscientious editor of _Oziana_ edited and corrected me. Bungle is female. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 06:25:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-28-96 > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest > > Eric-- > C'mon, you mean you never once wanted to tell us your favorite non-FF > titled character? Look at all those Ozites, raising their hands and > saying "ooh ooh! Pick me! Pick me!" Exactly. How can I pick just one??? (And before anyone asks the next inevitable question, no, I don't have a favorite Oz book, they all have something going for them -- yes, even the Neill ones, IMHO -- and so how can I pick just one?) --Eric "Still very little to say" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 11:56:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-28-96 on those oz dolls if they are the ones im thinking of have u tried toys r us? i picked up some oz dolls there real cheap and i think they are the ones u r talking about were there munchikins in the set? or that u could be also? hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 12:14:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" 1) Someone (can't remember who), I finally remember something about dinosaurs bombing themselves into oblivion. ***BEGIN SPOILER FOR LAST EPISODE OF "DINOSAURS"*** In the last episode of the TV show Dinosaurs, the Wesayso corporation, in a badly thought out attempt to fix problems it created, bombs several volcanoes, producing clouds, in an attempt to create rain and thus make plants grow. Instead, clouds of volcanic ash are produced, leading to the implied cold death of the dinosaurs. ***END SPOILER*** 2) Gili, I've only heard second-hand of the existence of people in this day and age named kOwzbIy. 3) I might as well throw my own opinion into this: In my head, Lurline is pronounced LER-leen. Vocally, LER-lain. I don't know why this is so. Maybe someone will rhyme Lurline with something in a poem and put an= end to all this... 4) Chris, DON'T PANIC! Presuming you have MacWrite Pro installed properly, first open the application. Then select Open.... You should then be able to open _Polychrome in Oz_ through the dialog box. Let me know if this doesn't work. ***WARNING: REVIEW FOR _MASQUERADE IN OZ_*** 5) On Friday I got a copy of _Masquerade in Oz_ (thank you Dave), and having read it, I am finally ready to review it. Scraps: Hit the dirt! He's going to spit acid! Chill out! I actually liked this book. Doubtful Dromedary: I doubt that very much. You don't like anything that's non-FF. I would have documented that, but I didn't think I would have been able to write anything down with my hooves. Try holding the pencil in your mouth. Seriously, folks, this is a book that Thompson would have been proud of, full of such punful creatures as dust bunnies, book worms, a hyaena who emits laughing gas, the Skeleton in the Closet, and a cat which gets let out of the bag. There are even human-tool chimeras in the laundry room. This book is also rather remarkable in that it is the only Oz book I can remember in which there is no active antagonist; instead the problem to be solved is created entirely by Scraps (and solved by her as well, with Bungle's help). _Masquerade in Oz_ also gives evidence for pun-based sympathetic magic in Oz (also found in _Queen Ann in Oz_), but I can't say just what it is here without giving the resolution of the plot away. As a side point, the Skeleton in the Closet, which is presumably a fairy creature, gives us our first glimse at the internal anatomy of fairies. Please notice the differences in the illustration from human anatomy: The skull and pelvis are shaped differently, there are no patellas or floating ribs, and there are only seven pairs of ribs instead of the human thirteen. ***END SPOILER*** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 14:53:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest David: Certainly, Thompson set the standard with the Generic Oz Story, and while all non-FF stories do not follow this pattern exclusively, it is the most popular theme, perhaps because it is the easiest. David and Bear: While drug-money is not the only motive for crime, I cannot imagine the following scenario: Joe Burglar breaks into a house. He grabs the TV, VCR and then, from across a crowded room... Joe: Wow! A first edition _Emerald City of Oz_ with the color plates, published in 1910 by Reilly & Britton! Joe drops the other stuff and deaprts with the aforementioned title in hand. Gili: True, AGOS was merely an outline. People have remarked before (not on the digest, though, IIRC), that Dorothy, Betsy and Trot are more or less similar to each other. I would argue that Rinkitink WAS the title character and main character, but that's getting a little ahead of the game. Gordon: Lur-LEEN sounds a little southern too. Too bad Baum didn't do one of those phonetic glossaries, like Jordan does with _Wheel of Time_. Chris: Is there any way you can save the e-mail message as a file? Also, did Nate send the thing straight ASCII? Warren: ALthough I love the Land of Oz, it is true that trace elements of cynicism have been detected. :-) Danny: Actually, I am working on a number of projects, but I have trouble getting around to actually doing the work. Aaron: I heard that some guy at Disney tried to insert some elements into their cartoon _Hercules_ that were true to the original story. He was fired immediately. Thanks to all of you who wrote in their support of AGOS! :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 30, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 22:33:28 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: More Ozzy Quickies Hi! David Hulan wrote: <> Yes, but their protection is strictly limited to the outside of a package. You can reprint Edgar Rice Burroughs' TARZAN OF THE APES (a novel in the public domain), or even reuse the character in a novel, calling him Tarzan even, as long as the name (still trademarked by the Burroughs estate) isn't used in the title (e.g., Philip Jose Farmer's THE ADVENTURE OF THE PEERLESS PEER). Superman himself will go into public domain in 2013 (75 years after his first appearance in 1938), unless the companies manage to get Congress to extend the maximun copyright period to 90 years. There's been a push for that, but the latest suggestion has been to restrict any extension to material retained by its original author. Thus DC/Time Warner might be able to hang onto the copyright, but only by returning Superman's ownership to the estate of his creator (Jerry Siegel, who died earlier this year; co-creator Joe Shuster died several years ago), thus maintaining the copyright until 2046. Gordon Birrell wrote: <> I'm inclined to agree on Lurline--and on Zixi, too. A man like Baum, who insisted on a phonetic spelling of "Nome," wouldn't be likely to intend his names to be pronounced any way other than the way they looked. << There's a long-standing association of gender roles with domestic animals: cats are regarded as feminine, dogs as masculine (e.g., Toto), and Baum seems to have bought into this traditional association.>> Very true--if a bit hard to remember at this point, with a life heavily dominated by a decidedly female dog (who could hardly have had puppies otherwise). Other children's books break the stereotype quite often (The Cheshire Cat was definitely male, as was The Cat in the Hat...or do you consider the latter as belonging with the Cowardly Lion in the "BIG Cat" category?), but now that I think of it, all the other dogs I can think of in the Oz books, FF and otherwise (Confido, Yankee...) have also been male. There might have been a tomcat or two in Catty Corners, though... Gili Bar-Hillel wrote: <> I don't remember any of the piglets having a name in the FF. Was this someone else's name for a character (a la Gingemma), or were you confusing him with HIDDEN VALLEY's Percy (a rat, not a piglet...though the book also included two GUINEA pigs ("Pigs is pigs!") named Pinny and Gig... Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 02:42:33 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Re: Insurance value of lost Oz dolls: For values of memorabilia, one of the best authorities on pricing is Bill Stillman (thebbugle@aol.com), co-author of the Oz Treasury. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 20:36:26 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Posts Hey Munchkins, I'm joining you for a bit in order to attend a Club business meeting at the convention this weekend. I'll get in Sat. afternoon and leave late Sunday night... late like 8:30. Hope someone else can hang around forever and keep me company. All the other posts I noted a response to were answered by other post-ers. Except the one asking what's become of the newsletters. Beats me. I was told they were mailing a week ago. Sorry, all, that they'll be so dated when they finally do arrive. Now that we've awakened from the database/mailing labels nightmare, the next issues should be more timely. Our original intent was to mail Autumn in Sept. We'll need to give it a few extra weeks so the one that are returned (because people have moved without telling us) can be received and the data base updated for the next mailing. But I can't imagine we won't have them ready to go by late Sept. Speaking of which.... Carole Mackey is gathering material for the Autumn Oz Observer. Send stuff her way at The more the merrier and think photos (when I put this together for for the first few years, unbroken pages crying out for photos were my biggest frustration.) and even if you didn't write "the official" convention reports, if you took pictures, send her some. She's needing them. And I always welcome Gazette contributions -- that means anything contributed by a kid or designed for a kid-aged reader. Don't nail me down on the ages of a kid. It can't be done in Oz. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 04:02:39 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Tyler writes: <> Well, who can blame him? :) Scott O. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 23:47:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-29-96 Pronunciation: Which names, besides Lurline, Guph, Kalidah, and Evoldo are open for different ways to say 'em? Maybe I should write an addendum to "The Pronunciad." I've heard Rug-EE-dough from a few people. Anyone out there say it that way? I believe most of us say RUG-ged-o. BTW and FWIW, I've always said Lur-LINE with an accented long "I" sound. Dunno why, just always have--probably because as a small child, when I first saw the name, I didn't know any French. I just said it like it looked. Trot, Betsy, Dorothy: Betsy is more of a wus than the other two. Trot seems the sweetest while retaining her spunk. She's not as pushy as Dorothy. I do not think they're interchangeable at all or even very similar. Dorothy is a self-starter all the way. Trot certainly can act on her own, but she seems to rely a lot on Cap'n Bill. Betsy is just a watered down rewrite of Dorothy used when Baum rewrote OZMA for the TIK-TOK play. Even RPT didn't do all that much with her in HUNGRY TIGER. She's just sort of "there," y'know? Just think, Eleanor, your Munchkin hassles will be finished in less than a week. ;-) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:53:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS Well, back from "my" valley and playing catch up. Too much olympic distraction. Tyler, you have finally cracked under the strain of too many Oz books. By the way, I think Ozma would imprison Tammy and Timmy in the Palace and make them the cutest little servants, for attempting to use magic without her permission. :) :) Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 11:06:50 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: OZ FIDDLER ON THE ROOF is over and Lazar Wolf has been retransformed to an Ozophile. Tyler: For you Generic Oz Story, generic thanks. David Hulan: I am very interested in those discounted used care dealers. Most of my cares, after I have used them, are difficult to discount, maybe I need a good dealer. Gili: Marlene Dietrich often appeared in coattails and her gender was unquestioned. By the way, July is almost over. I will need reviews for the Fall Bugle (Yes, I haven't seen the Spring Bugle yet either). Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:53:00 -0800 From: Bob Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-29-96 >on those oz dolls if they are the ones im thinking of have u tried toys r >us? i picked up some oz dolls there real cheap and i think they are the >ones u r talking about were there munchikins in the set? or that u could >be also? >hugs anthony van pyre I don't think the Toys R Us dolls are the 50th anniversary edition dolls that were lost in the flood. My daughter has all those dolls (assuming we're talking about the same ones), and I don't remember any reference to the 50th anniversary. The Toys R Us dolls were rather cheaply made, but my daughter has loved having them and playing with them nonetheless. Valerie also has the Barbi-as-Dorothy doll, and I just noticed the other day that there's a Barbi-as-Glinda doll and a Ken-as-Tinman doll! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Shepherd Sun Microsystems, Inc robert.shepherd@west.sun.com Quality Systems Beaverton, OR phone: 503-520-7696 FAX: 503-520-7730 Deep Thought For The Week: I went to San Francisco. I found someone's heart. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:27:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Wizard of Oz (fwd) this person is looking for wiz of oz lyrics specifically the scarecrows if i only had a brain care to help him out ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 11:12:03 GMT From: JosephD To: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Wizard of Oz Thanks for your comment...I have done several web searches...have not found lyrics, only other items of interest from the books Baum wrote, and of course the 1939 movie. Joe jdespins@usa.pipeline.com On Jul 28, 1996 12:02:32, 'Mark Anthony Donajkowski ' wrote: >im sure u can do a web search and find them >X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] > > >In article <4tabh2$oke@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com> you wrote: >: Does anyone know if the lyrics to the tunes sung in the movie version of >: the Wizard of Oz (Judy Garland et al.) exist? If so where can I find them >: on the 'net...am interested in particular for the scarecrow's "...if I only >: had a brain..." song. Thanks, friends. >: >: Joe >: jdespins@usa.pipeline.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:27:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest The Incredible Shrinking Digest: Byte size is decreasing. Maybe we're just all talked out. "Favorites" As Eric says, there are so many interesting characters and books, it is very difficult to pick just one, since to most people there is no single one standing head and shoulders over all others. Aaron: This spoiler could be part of the plot of _Mr. Ritchfield in Oz_, wherein he and Ruggedo team up to... (STOMP) Aaron again: I promise, I will install the Web producer today and post your review of _Lurline and the White Ravens_. Same goes for _Masquerade_ when you either send it to me or post it on the digest. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 10:58:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Waddle Book Mike Denio has informed me of something that I think is worth passing on to Digest readers. Half-Price Books, which has outlets in a number of states now, has been remaindering a recent reprint of the 1934 Wizard of Oz Waddle Book (see Bibliographia Oziana, pp. 35-36) for $5.98. Hardbound, with the waddle figures and ramp included. It's published by Applewood Books and appears to be a facsimile edition, but without the color plates. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:51:33 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-28 & 29-96 7/28: Wonder if VUU73 whose daughter lost her Oz dolls in a flood is a neighbor of ours? Carol: Can you give me more details about the Oz Festival? Like date and time? I think I can be free that day (the only weekend thing we're planning in August is a run up to Milwaukee one Saturday, but we haven't set a date and could probably accommodate the Oz Festival). (I remember discussing this with you back in April or May, but I don't think the date had been firmed up at that point; if so, I've forgotten it.) Me: I meant "used car dealers", not "used care dealers". (Used care is an interesting concept, though...) Gili: Trot had a very distinct personality in SEA FAIRIES and especially SKY ISLAND, but I'll have to admit that by the time she got to Oz she wasn't very different from Betsy. She was always the prettiest of the three, though, imho. (That's Neill and not the authors, of course.) Aaron: MASQUERADE is a pretty decent book; I've read it twice and enjoyed it both times. Nothing earth-shaking, but a fun light adventure. I wish its authors would stick to writing and stop trying to illustrate, though... Tyler: I agree that your average burglar isn't going to go after books. In fact, I said so. But if a person is known to have some particularly valuable books in his collection, it's possible that a professional burglar would hear about them and go in and take them. The more usual scenario for getting books stolen, though, is that a "friend" of the person with the valuable books would lift them. I'm glad none of my books is particularly valuable. (A book worth $50-100, while painful to lose, isn't worth enough to tempt a burglar. Few of mine are worth more than that.) 7/29: Tyler: I think Dorothy has a personality that's very distinct from Trot's or Betsy's; she's much more proactive, to use a current buzzword, whereas the other two are at most reactive and usually passive. They're typically just along for the ride; things happen to them, but they don't make things happen. Dorothy often makes things happen. David Hulan ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 31, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:03:56 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Digest Submission Mike Turniansky writes in the 7/26 Digest In the RSV that passage reads, "Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom, dweller in the land of Uz; but to you also the cup shall pass; you shall become drunk and strip yourself bare." Which prompts me to ask, is anyone depicted as drunk anywhere in of the FF? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:25:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest Robin: I've always said ruh-GEE-dough, and the late Marcus Mebes used to say ruh-GEH-dough. David: That was a good point on the main difference between Dorothy, Betsy and Trot. Dorothy is a doer, while the other two are generally watchers. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:56:12 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Oz I spoke to Fred Meyer last night. He told me there has been a serious hold-up on production of the Spring 1996 BAUM BUGLE (this is NOT the fault of Bill Stillman, the new editor--nor of me the "old" review editor--he had it ready three months ago). It will probably be a month before it will be out. As King Lear said, "Ye heavens grant me that patience, patience I need." BTW: I will be going to see Fred next week. If anyone has a message he or she would like me to deliver, post it to me (steller@pittstate.edu) by Friday. I will run them off and deliver them to him. Posts via the digest cannot be so easily detached, but will be delivered. THE WIZARD OF OZ WADDLE BOOK, even in the Applewood reprint, is a very nice item. It is a facsimile of the original WADDLE BOOK, except it uses plastic rather than metal hinges. Bill Stillman reviewed it in the BUGLE. If you don't have it, take the opportunity to get it for $5.95! Otherwise you will be kicking yourself in twenty-five years. David Hulan: Used *car* dealers! What a letdown! Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 01:40:20 +0300 (WET) From: Maya Bar-Hillel Subject: re: 7.29.96 Hi Digest! Once again taking a break off writing my endless school papers... Rich - Percival is my own name for one of the piglets! (see Oziana 1995) I guess that would make him a non-FF character, but I like him anyway... Steve T. - Marlene Deitrich only started wearing coattails a few good years after Eureka did... I don't think it was at all common at the time. But then, maybe eureka was a trendsetter! I got the club mailings yesterday! Hooray! why did I get them before everyone else? Is it because I'm early in the Alphabetical order, or because I'm overseas? So, if any of you *did* get the club mailings, please notice: In "the Observer", Dave is called David and David is called Dave :-)! Plus, may I be petty and observe that Katie Fleming could not have taken all the pictures for the write-up of the winkie convention, because she's *in* two of them! In fact, I think *I* took the bottom one. I loved the story about Patty Tobias' rediscovered Oz book. And I wish I looked as good as that guy who dressed up as a brush-up-and-wash girl... BTW, David, you neer did tell me what happened to Fred Otto's jacket? Did you have to mail it to California? OOh, and look much of our digest chit-chat found its way into the Gazette - isn't that nice! _Important_ - anyone who wants to write me a private e-mail should use the following address from now on: gili@scso.com Thank you! Bye bye! Gili ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:23:27 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-96 Re: Drowned Multi-Toy Doll values. The Wizard of Oz Collector's Treasury suggests their individual at $5-$15. Though values may have raised since it was published, most 50th anniversary stuff hasn't appreciated all that much yet. A lot of it still turns up in flea markets. Value on your's, since they were played with (vs. mint in box) wouldn't be real high. And I think the same dolls actually are available again, but with different packaging. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:45:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Pronounciation in Oz 1) Robin, on pronounciation of Ozian names: ARGH! I can't even decide how Old Ozzish was pronounced! Also: Betsy a wuss? Uh, what about that scene in _Tik-Tok of Oz_ where she meets the Nome King and speaks to him not quite respectfully? Something to the tune of "Well, if you're going to kill me, do it now and get it over with", which was followed by a demand for food. (Though I could be remembering this scene wrong...) 2) Gili, Stephen, the gender of cats in non-ventral position is not immediately obvious to most humans. Therefore a human seeing a cat in what for humans is normally considered masculine clothing may assume that the cat is male. Also: Come to think of it, I find myself wondering about how often in Oz nonhumans make mistakes in determining the gender of humans. 3) Tyler, your reviews page is now taking reviews for non-Buckethead books? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 00:26:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones <70003.6136@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy DIgest Jsut a quick note that I finally installed the Web Publisher. Aaron and David Hulan each sent me a review of a Buckethead book. You can see them on the reviews page. I hope to receive more reviews from them and others. In the meantime, I redid the rating summary section, so that everything should look normal and all the stats are in tabular form. Can people with Netscape and/or Microsoft capability take a look at this page and let me know if everything is lined up? I am at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tyler_jones Thanks, --Tyler Jones ======================================================================